The Delta Flyers - The Sword of Kahless

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, The Sword of Kahless, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry Farrell.The Sword of Kahless: Worf, Dax, and Kor, a respected Klingon warrior, tangle with Worf’s enemy and one another while searching for a legendary Klingon Empire sword.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Andrew Cano, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Keir Newton, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, & Tamara EvansAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Joshua Shields, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, Natalie Swain, Brian Heckathorne, Mark Johnson, Nelson Silveira, Ming Xie, & Gordon WThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers' Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts for today are my fellow Trek actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong, for the complete, exciting, stupendous. unbelievable, amazing, and who-hoo version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Woo-hoo. Wow, those were. What?

Did you like those adjectives, Terry? I gave a lot. Those were great. I was thinking, how are we going to live up to all of that? And then I thought, wait a minute, you have one foot in Las Vegas. So I think that's the showman in you. That's what it is. It is.

Okay, wouldn't Garrett be great as like, what are they called? The person who is the, oh, who's in charge. The MC, the host, master of ceremonies. Yeah. For circus. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A circus.

Circus. Like Circus. Like Cirque de Soleil kind of vibe. Yeah. Okay. I could do that. All right. Well, how is everyone doing today?

Good. Yes. Good. Good. Excellent. I'm going to play golf with Jim Conway tomorrow. Oh. Very excited about that.

Tell him hello. I will. I will. Did he love Italy? Oh my gosh. He had a great time. He sent me like an album of all the photos because that's his hobby now. He goes on these photo trips. So he'll go and there's like a photography teacher there that takes a group of them out and they do landscape photography. And he had some beautiful shots.

You know what would be great is to do that for the Galapagos. You know who's in the Galapagos? A bunch of Star Trek people are in the Galapagos right now. Oh, I've always wanted to go. I know. That would be amazing. What do you mean they're in Galapagos right now? Doing an event?

Galapagos Comic-Con? Vacation. Yeah, vacation. Yeah. Okay. Like an adventure trip. Like Jim Conway does, our good director friend. I took myself on safari once.

Have you guys ever done that? I have. Oh, it was the best gift I ever gave myself. It's amazing. Where did you go? Isn't it? Kenya. I went fluent in Nairobi.

and we did the whole Maasai Mara, Mount Kilimanjaro. It was just amazing. What year was that, what would you say? I was on Becker and I turned 36 on that trip. And my every flight I was on was delayed. And on my birthday, I was in an airport hotel in Paris, having a glass of not great wine from the little mini bar. I got to the safari two days late.

I got there and we had to leave right when I got there. It was just terrible. Wow. I'm proud that you went on your own to Kenya. That's huge. A solo trip to Kenya. Not a lot of people can do that. So good for you.

Yeah. Well, it was with a group, even though I was by myself. To get there, you were by yourself. Yeah, because some people also just go. Yeah. Wow. Terry's right, Robbie. It is a life-changing moment when you see the just the wildlife and the animals.

and you're up close. I didn't go to Kenya. I went to South Africa with Megan, and it was just unbelievable. You can feel that that ground is ancient. It's just like, you know what I'm saying? Like, if you're walking through... Like, this is where we came from.

Yes. If I'm walking through Pittsburgh, I don't think that that ground is ancient. But when I go to Africa, I feel... What do you got against Pittsburgh? I have nothing against Pittsburgh. I'm just, I just, I just, I said,

I didn't want to say New York. I like Pittsburgh. It's a nice town. Fine. Yeah. Timbuktu. When you're walking through Timbuktu, how's that? Okay. Sorry, Pittsburgh people.

Never been there. I've been to Kathmandu. Is that between China and India? Nepal. You have. How was it getting there? It was great. It was my very first trip out of the country.

I was 20 years old. I went with Mark Lemura from the soap opera I was doing at the time. He and I went together. He had traveled all over great adventure traveler. I felt like I had gone on a Star Trek away mission or something. She's another planet. It was another world. The final leg of the flight was from Bangkok to Kathmandu, I think.

Yeah. And we were on Nepali Airlines. And halfway back in the plane, there was a curtain. And the back part of the plane, they had chickens. I was going to joke about that. What? There's livestock back there. There was livestock.

There were animals because it was a smaller plane and it's Kathmandu. And, you know, they were, there was literally, you could hear the chickens in the back of the plane. Oh, my word. And we flew over, we got to see Mount Everest. We flew over Mount Everest and, Annapurna. Yeah, it was an amazing trip. It was pretty cool. Wow.

Let's talk about some birthdays right now. The first birthday I want to shout out is to Anna Post on July 21st. Happy, happy birthday, Anna. Happy birthday, Anna. Yay. Happy birthday. to you on a happy birthday next up we have nelson silvera nelson severa on july 22nd the next day after anna happy birthday to nelson severa happy birthday nelson i hope it's an awesome day happy birthday nelson

and loren rivers july 23rd happy birthday lauren happy birthday lauren happy birthday lauren Limerick for Sword of Kales. I like how you said that. Me too. Yeah. Wharf finally meets Kore face to face. Finding the sword could reverse Worf's disgrace. Paranoia grows by degree.

Dax must play referee. Now the sword is just lost in space. Very good. Oh, thank you. I wanted you to do it the same voice that you started with, though. The sword of Kaelus. War finally meets Korn. Face to face.

Finding the sword could reverse Worf's disgrace. Paranoia grows by degree. Dax must play referee. Now the sword is just lost in space. See how much better that was? That was amazing.

That was my Klingon version. You knocked it out of the park with the Klingon version. You did. I think you should be an honorary Klingon now. Oh, I married one on the show on Voyager. Oh, that's right. Oh, we both married Klingon. How cool?

Oh, never thought of that. Time for haiku. I think I want to do Klingon Voice 2. Okay, cling on voice, IQ. Good, good, good, good. Do it. One sword to rule all. Dax babysits wharf and core. Bye-bye, sweet Batleth.

Wow, that was very impressive. Thanks. I mean it, I really liked that. That was awesome. All the houses approved. I need a reaction. Yay. Let us move on to talk about the director.

Lovar Burton, yes, very good. Yeah, he did a great job. He did do a nice job. Story by Richard Dennis, but teleplay is by Hans Baimla. Let's just say that Hans wanted to avoid giving the sword any mystical or magical powers like the Holy Grail. He said it's the concept of the sword that has the power.

We could have said that some technology or magic gave the Klingon's a feeling of power, but that would have been a cheap way to go. So this is something that all the writers were trying to stress that the actual sort of Calus had no, you know, actual powers. Exactly. But a lot of fans reacted adversely to it initially. They wanted it to have power. They're like, why not?

Why not? It's fun. It is fun to have a sword with power. And Star Wars has the force. So why not a little magic? Exactly. And this episode was heavily inspired by the classic feature film, The Treasure of Sierra Madre. That is the kind of the influence behind this.

Guest stars are John Colacos, back is core. My friend. So good. How amazing is that? He starts doing this role in the 60s, and they bring him back to do it again in D-Space 9. Next we have Rick Pasquilon as Teral. This character actually was played by a different actor, J.D. Cullum, in, the TNG two-part episode

Redemption when Terrell first appears. Oh, interesting. And J.D. Cullum is a very good friend of Armin and Kitties. In fact, I think J.D. just did the play that they were in. I did not know that. Yeah. Wow. Instead of six degrees of

separation from Kevin Bacon, it could be from Armin, Shimmerman, and Kitty. Armin and Kitty. Six degrees of Armin and Kitty. 100%. Yeah. The Swimmermans. The Swimmermans. Swink and Shimmerman. I love that.

That should be a new sitcom. Well, let's start writing that sitcom right now. I love it. Yes. And you could be their neighbor in the sitcom, of course. Totally. I'm with it. I'm totally on it.

You guys have to come visit me all the time. We will. The two knuckleheads that drive me insane. Yeah, we'll be the two knuckleheads that keep coming over to drive you insane in the sitcom. Tom Morga, Dennis Madeline's right hand man, plays Soto as a co-star. All right. And that's all of our people. Great.

We start in Quarks. And we've got Cora there telling a very dramatic Clingon tale to a rapt group that includes everybody. Everybody's listening. This is our residual scene where Odo and Quark can everybody get one line so they get their residuals. And then we don't see him the rest of the episode, basically. And he's getting mixed reviews. Some people are getting impatient with like, aw. Yeah.

Yeah. Quark hates the dramatic Clingon stories as he passes by. by um wharf at the bar who and and that's immediately i was like why isn't warf over there like this is a klingon story but you we come to learn he's very intimidated by core in the beginning he just really idolizes him when we start our story yeah otto and bashear very skeptical dax mentions you told this story differently before so we already know he's embellishing his stories it's a fish story. Yeah, exactly. The biggest fish

ever. Yeah. Exactly. He's very good at telling these stories, too. I love how Colum react, Chief O'Brien reacted. Yeah. Like, who cares? Like, he's such a great storyteller. Yeah, exactly. Dax tries to introduce

Cor to Wharf, and at first he says, no. We realize, you know, Worf feels like an outcast because he was raised by Foster with humans. and has never quite felt like he fit in. We're sort of reminded of that. Dax brings Kor over anyway. And Worf's very honored to meet him.

Of course starts to reveal that he's looking for this treasure, some treasure. But it doesn't say exactly what it is. And then Worf guesses that it's the sword of Kalis. And he's very excited, wants to help. Core, he would be honored. Core shows us this shroud, which I thought was a really interesting prop. Like it was the texture of it. I do too. I thought it was very cool.

Yeah. Sometimes they don't look as kind of authentic and that really looked great. Yeah. Props did a great job. I also like the introduction when Core first responds when he first sees Worf. He says, ah, warf, the traitor, the pariah, the lowest of the low. And then he's like, pleasure to meet you. I know, isn't that crazy? I was waiting for him to like slap him or hit him or challenge him.

But no, it was funny. And I think that was like the most even. that core delivered any line exactly ever it sounded just human it was so throw away yeah so throw away very sitcomy right in a way I felt yeah I like good actor can I tell you something you guys yeah I don't remember this

at all story I don't remember doing it and it felt so weird I'm watching it and I'm like okay no it'll come to me it'll come no no no shoot It's a Robbie problem. It's like me and Voyager. Robbie has also forgotten an episode that he's very heavy in.

I've forgotten stuff in an episode that I was heavy. Seriously. Yes. We're both like, what? We both went. When did we film this? When did we even work on this? How do you not remember the story even?

Especially for you, I'm surprised this one because you did have a lot to do. Yeah. This was episode eight of season four. This is in that zone, at least in my. Memory of Voyager where by season three, four, five, those episodes, especially in the middle of the season, they're just buried, surrounded by so much other long days and... Oh, you're so right. Being sheerly exhausted. We are literally in the thick of it, right? With this season four. Yeah. And you know what? I did a video game kind of treasure quest

in the same month that we did rejoined. I think I was heavy and quite, a few episodes and I was working weekends on that so I was by the time we got to this episode I must have just been so exhausted I couldn't possibly remember okay so when you say video game you were playing a different character doing a voice in a video game is that what you're saying yeah I played like a bunch of characters I was an angel yeah it was called treasure quest treasure quest is the video game okay it was like a treasure hunt I want to find it and I want to play it now. Yeah, it was like having

clues where people travel places. Yeah, it was on your computer. Okay, okay. We're at the end of that first scene. What was this piece of the cloth? The shroud? The shroud.

The shroud itself, yeah. The shroud. Isn't a shroud something you cover your face? Yeah, it's like you put it over a dead body. So it's not a shroud. Did it used to hold the sword of Kayla? A cloth. Yes, it did.

Okay. But yes, it did because this is where Dax says, because Core wants it to be authentic and Dax goes, I've had too much blood wine. I'll check it out tomorrow. I'll see if there's any of the sword particles on this. So yeah. Exactly. Then I say goodnight to them. You're out of there. Then they're on their own adventure. And then they keep drinking. Correct? They keep they keep drinking. Yeah. He'd like take somebody's drink and pours it into his to set up his drunkenness. Oh, that's right. Yes. He mixed whatever blood wine with whatever blue stuff I was drinking. Whatever is a ratting. whatever that was. Long Island ice tea. It's a Gamma Quadron ice tea. Yeah.

Mix with Klingon blood wine. Nice. Yes. Oh, my. Well, we go into Coors' quarters. He comes in super drunk now. He's had a lot more to drink. And there's a lethean in there.

I hate those Lothians. Me too. Aren't they scary looking? They're so icky. But now that you know it's Tom Morga, not so scary. Yeah, he's nice. Well. We like Tom.

We like Tom. We like Tom. Tom, but he did a good job being scary. Good job, Tom. This is the same species that attacked Dr. Bashir in distant voices. Do you remember? He's in the infirmary, actually.

That was Altavar, that character played by Victor Rivers. But this is clearly not the same actor. This is Tom Morga. Did he have any? Oh, he did have a line. He says, core. That's it. I don't think he speaks the rest of the house.

Oh, he says, open your mind. Doesn't he have it? Oh, that's right. Open your mind. That's right. it's under five but it's still more than not saying anything yeah that's true that's true well the lethean zaps him with some electrical charge and then reads his mind here that upset me didn't like it no i was so worried i'm worried about our mission that this yeah i don't know how much information he has now

he knows everything the next day core's lying on the ground dax comes in and i was and she's immediately she assumes that he passed out drunk but i was like if i was like if i was in and someone's laying on the floor, I'd be like, are you okay? What happened? I think they were dead. You would. But think about this. Remember, we went and did Blood Oath. Yes. Together. And these guys are rough and tumbled. They are without rules, especially Core. And Dax, the symbiont, knew him through Curzon. Big history. Pneum as a man. Yeah, par for the course. All right. He'll pass out anyway. where and you've had to wake him up from a drunken night many times so this is not the first

yeah okay this par for the court so really dax's first line should have been not again you know it's just over and over again oh my god can't you well couldn't find the bed couldn't find the bed this time again yeah that was my line yeah right it was a it is she asked she asked about his night uh he says he went to wharf's quarters and they drank and planned more so He was really, yeah, drunk. And she does tell him in the scene. She confirms, yes, the shroud or this cloth was authentic. He is thrilled.

He's ready to go right away. And she says, no, no, no. First, I want to know where did you get this? Tell me about this thing. Yeah. She's skeptical because these guys, you know, they, something exciting, they jump. They're like dogs. What?

Yeah. Car. Yeah. Yeah. I also did take slight offense to, We're saying, Toad-faced Ferengi, talking about cork. I get so protective of cork. It's just weird.

I know. Everybody's always always making these sharp comments about him. I know. Yeah. Okay. But Klingons don't like Ferengi's. What? Traditionally?

Are you sure? Okay. I don't know. I would guess culturally, that's not their jam. I think it's kind of a mutual thing. Yes, exactly. All right. You know, they're, Ferengi's greedy.

and opportunistic, and the Klingons go off the handle and are very dramatic. So, I mean, they don't like each other. They're both kind of the extremes of what's difficult to deal with, don't you think? Okay. Well, we go to Cisco's quarters. I love the way the scene opens on the close-up of the shaver, which was very cool opening, LaVar. Probably a pencil sharpener.

No, actually, can I just throw in a little bit of trivia that I did not put in the What's the truth. Yeah, the truth is this is the exact same razor that was used by LeVar Burton in the TNG episode, Season 1, Code of Honor. What? They still had that prop? Yes. Holy cow. Which is shocking.

Here it is again with Cisco sheet. I bet that was. Purposeful. They did that. Yeah, either the writer's thought of that connection or LeVar might have said it. And he thought of it just as a, it'd be a fun activity for Avery to have. A fun Easter egg for the fans to go. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, both. Oh. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah. Well, Dax is there with war. If they fill Sisko in on the sword's history and the cloth, they go through this whole story talking about the Herc and how the Herc and how the Herc had sort of conquered the Klingons and we're really bad people. We never meet the Herc. I want to.

Yeah. I wish. I want to know who the Herc are. I know. Terry, have you heard of the Herc before this? I don't, I've never heard of Herc. No. And don't you think that.

Maybe they should have been around that cave kind of protecting it. If they're still alive, though. They might have been killed off because this is thousands of years ago, right? Isn't that the timeline? Yeah. Oh, sure. Like the Egyptians or something. But there are people that are Egyptian.

Yes. Yes. But you don't know. That's an interesting. I didn't make that connection with Terry. That's a great reference for the Herc because it is like a pyramid, like the tombs of the pyramid. Yeah.

Yeah. Which would have made it even more interesting to have. all the things Hans wanted to have in it. Yeah, yeah. You know, they're on a treasure hunt. Right. Yeah. Well, you talk about having Herc protecting it.

I started thinking about Herc, like a Herc museum. Like they get there and they're like, yes, and the admission fee is this. You see this like little Herc ticket booth. That's what it felt like it used to be. Okay, people, we're moving along. Moving. Yeah. So they go through all that.

And then Cisco's impressed by this. And he asked Dax, you know, so you want to go along too? Sounds like an adventure. So he gives them his blessing and off they go. I know it's kind of silly, but I love how Dax turns and says, Benjamin, thank you. Because it's just like a friend thing. It feels like he really is letting them go for the relationship he had with hers, Curzon and everything. Like, oh, he'll, he's going to love that.

Yeah. Yeah, it helps those personal relationships, the character relationships, those moments. Yeah. Those are good moments. Yeah. Well, we're on the runabout Rio Grande. Cora is making a big dramatic speech before they enter the wormhole. Everything's got to be dramatic with him.

Together they step forth into the eye of destiny. And he makes this sort of move with his hands and the wormhole opens up. And Dax is like, now? Now. There's a lot of comedy in this episode. I love. But we all have an uncle or someone in our life, a relative. that is core, that's always very dramatic or whatever maybe.

Yeah. I like most that Dax is ordering Worf around. Mr. Worf, lay in a course for the wormhole. There you go. She gets to order him around. Yes. A little while later, they're in the Gamma Quadrant. Worf is doing Mukbara, this cling on Tai Chi, which I love.

It's very nice, yeah. Thanks, Dax, for introducing him to Core. Yeah. You know, he was nervous, but he's glad that she pushed it, and he's really honored to be on this mission. And then court enters gargling, which I thought was very funny. It was gross. I was so afraid he was going to spit on the floor.

I know. What are you going to do with that? He drank it, right? He didn't swallow it. Yeah. Well, what is he? That's how clans do it. It's like, oh, it's probably alcohol.

He just probably. Yeah, that's what it is. Clearly that it's an alcoholic. But to me, it's funny that he's gargling listerine. Klingon Listerine and then he just drinks it at the end. Yeah, he talked about his dream that he had, how he was in the hall of emperors. He found the sword and they had a statue. And then he transformed from the statue into, you know, being alive and they sang his praises.

And Kang, Koloth, and Kor were together again. So another kind of original series reference to the history of this character and Klingon traditions and all. he's really fantasizing about being a hero and a legend from this adventure. And also it sort of hints at his ambitions, which come out later, you know. Seems like for me, it felt like he was just at this point in the story, just doing it for the noble cause of it all. But we come to see later on. For the empire.

Yes. He has beef with Gowron as well. You know what I'm saying? He talks about that. So I almost, you're right. The ambitiousness, or the, I feel like he wants to be the chancellor of the Klingon Empire, like Gowron. And so I feel like he's jealous of Gowron in a way. Yeah, definitely later.

We have a space shot, though, of the runabout flying towards the planet here. And it made me, Garrett, think of our conversation with Brian Fisher about how they were converting from practical models to CGI models. And he mentioned how they were converting around this time from the models to CG versions. That's right. And so I bet we just saw the CG runabout was... You think that was the CG runabout in that shot? Not practical. It was actually computer generated.

That's correct. Yes. But Brian was saying back then they had to hand model these 3D models. They had to do it all. You know, now it can be converted, you know, through the computers. But he probably physically modeled that CG runabout just a little. And then they put it input it into the computer. Put it in the computer.

And then they can move it around. round, yeah, but you have to build that. But they literally had to build it first. Yeah, exactly. Wow, that's a lot of work. Brian, by the way, was the one person that built the Defiant. He did the Defiant model, the initial Defiant. Oh.

Yeah. So it's a great interview. It's a great job. Yeah. Yeah, great job. If you're a Patreon, patron, check out that interview because he's really got some great story. Interesting. The runabout is flying to the planet, and we see that great shot.

And then we go back inside. and Dax scans the planet. We find there's tunnels, there's chambers. This is that Egyptian connection. I think you put it perfectly, Terry. It's like a pyramid. Yeah. Yeah.

Dax finds the Herc Museum, that they had a museum or something there. But that's all that's left. There's no Herc that are alive anymore, just these tunnels in this museum. And Core points to the chamber. Do we have any people that we're picking up, any humanoids? We don't even talk about that, do we? No, no life science, just the tunnels in this old chamber for the museum. That's really, it's abandoned.

And Core points out, this is where the chamber is based on that map or whatever. And he says, that's where the Vulcan said the Batleth would be. So we scan it. We find there's a force field around it. And Core's like, that's not a problem. You'll get past it. So he believes in Dax. your core, core thinks Dax'll science her way out of anything.

And you know what, too, we didn't really talk about is that this mission also was fostering the hope that this would make Federation and the Klingons have kind of a coming together again, repair their relationship. It just occurred to me that that's kind of a word to say. Yeah, we hadn't mentioned that, but Cisco said that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we cut down into our classic Star Trek caves.

We wander through, we stay 17. We find a tunnel that goes to this museum, but there's a force field around it. And Dax, Dax and Wharf together do a little sciencing and take it down. And I thought it was interesting, the little detail where they smell the air that's been. Yeah. How great is that? I did too.

I like that. Or says it smells foul. So you get this sort of Indiana Jones vibe. Yeah. Well, like what's foul? Like dead rats or like seriously? Just how old it is. Just old, old air.

It's been there for a musty, dank. Well, Corr says it's been undisturbed for hundreds of years. I thought it was thousands, but okay, hundreds of years. What about the force field dismantling? We never did that on Voyager. Robbie? I thought that was like. No, we didn't have Dax.

We didn't, I mean, if we had Dax, we could have dismantled on a lot of forest fields. Okay. We go inside this Herc chamber, and there's beautiful smooth walls in this museum. Beautiful lighting in here. So no one's been in there for hundreds of years. Where's the light coming from? Yes. There's like one really old Hurt guy that's a maintenance guy still there cleaning up.

Changing a light bulb. He's changing light bulb. I'm the only hurt. He's like from the surface. You know how? Yeah, like a skylight that comes. Yeah, a tube that comes. Skylight tubes.

I love those. Yeah, the tubes that you can put throughout your house and they mirror it. Yeah. The light down to wherever they can. Yes, that was invented by the Herks. Exactly. Oh, there you go. Wow.

They were smart people, just like the Egyptians. Oh, yes. I'll tell you, when you walked into a Herk Home Depot, you could find everything. He was amazing back then. Dax says this place has been ransacked. Worf's like, well, maybe the Vulcans got here or someone got here. The place is ransacked. And we go to commercial break off of our ransacked museum.

We think we're at a dead end, but no. Kor thinks it's over when we come back. He's given up. Wharf kind of looks around very carefully. I like what LeVar did in this act open because you had a three shot. The way the dialogue played out, wharf kind of comes right towards the lens and goes off searching. and it hands off to the two-shot.

It's just, LeVar's got a real instinctual sense of storytelling and the way he moves the camera, you know, and a variety of tight shots and inserts, and it never gets dull, and it doesn't feel forced. I think LeVar's really, really good. He was a wonderful director to work with. He's very centered, calm, generous. There was no stress around him.

It just felt really easy to be working, with him. I just really loved working with him. And on top of that, he just smells freaking great. He does. At that time, he took lavender and would put lavender in his hair. And oh, my gosh, it was just like, you go near him and it was like, it definitely had that effect. Like, I was in a spa. It was like going into a yoga studio. Yeah. It was genius. Lavaar talked about how he enjoyed the fact that he got to work with Michael again. So having Dorn there on the set, I'm sure, was a little extra treat for them to sort of have their inside jokes from T&G days and kind of rib each other with a thing. That must have been pretty cool. Oh, it's fun because they laugh more. I mean,

you're in a scene in Avery's office, it's more serious. But yeah, I was like I was in the boys' club. Worf is searching around. He finds some dust on the floor, but it's not touching the edge of the wall. Something's weird. Dax scans it. Realize that this wall is actually a false hologram wall. A little more sciencing and they disable that one and they step through this hologram of a

wall. And Dax uses the Herc DNA readings off the cloth to fool the hologram to pass through. So that's a clever that was smart. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was cool. It was. So the whole thing with the dust, they're saying that

the air was blowing it out from the other chamber? Is that what it was, guys? I'm trying to something like that. Okay. Because that's what makes sense. Yeah. If the dust isn't touching, there has to be some air coming through to push it away. Yeah. Okay. Well, they go inside, Dax goes in first, then Wharf, then Corps. There it is. The Batheath. The sword of Cadus is in. Actually, I'll let both of them go ahead of me, which I thought was weird. It stood out to me. You step through first, but then you're first. You told them to step to approach the sword. You stayed away from us.

Oh, okay. I think there's somewhere else where I let them both go ahead. And I thought, oh, I can't believe one of them isn't taking up the rear. It was definitely. It's later. Yes, later. Core was the last one to go through the holographic, you know, image in the very beginning. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're right. Right. It was a different thing. Maybe it was the first time we came in the chamber. Anyway, there's some point where we're in the caves and it's just like, are you kidding me i don't understand why dax isn't going first yeah yeah or in the middle yeah let the big warriors take the caboose and the engine like i should be in the middle they should be stronger than me right so yeah so no dax is pretty strong i believe in i believe in dax it went dax warth then core

correct in terms of they're walking in because i kept thinking i was thinking of a different scene right i kept thinking that a force was going to come up and core was going to like smack his nose into it for some I know that went through my mind yeah that would have been great oops oops sorry core they see this sort of calis warf starts to approach and then he says no he thinks no he wants core to be the first one to hold it and so core holds it for a moment that's sweet has a beautiful moment and then wharf holds it and uh wharf's got a little speech here i love that it like touched his heart. Yeah, when he slew Molar, conquered Feclura, and forged the first empire, now I hold it in my hands. He's got, he's kind of got some of that drama that core has had, which we don't

usually see from, from Wharf. No. No, not that verbato. Not like that. Not like that. It felt different. It was nice. Can I talk about this sword real quick since we're here? Okay. First of all, beautiful, beautiful looking bad, leth. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. They designed it to look ancient and also gorgeous at the same time. The final design of the Sword of Kaelis was done by Dan Curry. Based on an illustration by John Eves, originally Eves was assigned to design the sword himself. But after making some preliminary drawings,

he went to Curry, who was the original designer of the Batleth, and allowed him to finish the project. I think that is a... Oh, that's so generous. What? Yes. That's a true collaboration. And it makes my heart smile when I hear this.

Oh, 100%. Oh, collaboration. Makes everybody feel good. In the Hurt Chamber, just as they start to leave, because the destabilizers aren't going to hold on for too long. Terrell and his thugs are right there. They stop them. The Lethians there are around.

Like, what the heck? I know. What the heck? So they read their mind and followed them until they got the thing. Oh, that's right. Yeah. This was Tom Morga's fault.

They want the Batleth. Teral wants to rule the empire, basically. Like Teral says, if I have this, I could be in charge. That is what would make it so much cooler if it had some kind of magical that everybody wants it. Like, what if it made you so much stronger? Yeah. It doesn't have to be that you can magically turn into anything, but if it gave you literal power. Mm-hmm.

Not just symbolic power, but physical, mental, yeah. Yeah. Like, he man and masters of the universe, that sword. Yes. I have the power. Yes. Well, Worf pretends to give in. Worf pretends.

He says, you know what? If he really wants it, you should give it to him. And the way he read that line, I'm like, oh, here we go. We're going to have a fight. Here we go. They're going to give it to him and they fight. Worf gets wounded in that. and his shoulder

but they beat everybody up and run away with the Batlethean and Terral and his guys get up and give chase so they're all starting to run Worf knocks out this disruptor though and locks them in basically

puts the force field back up right I thought it was a very funny bit the force field goes up and the Klingons run in and he goes oh it was like it just felt like a oh foiled again The reaction to me was just

Keystone cops Yes Abbott and Costello It was comedic That's what I was thinking Yeah But further on They try to call the ship

To get a beam out They can't They can't connect with the ship Because the Klingons are using some kind of blocker And this is where Kor relives his victory Over the Klingons inside

This fight we just saw Very dramatic Dax does indulge him by saying I'm sure Well, because of Cora says, the first man in a thousand years to be killed by the sword of Calus. I killed that man. And Dax kind of patronizingly says, I'm sure he was very proud.

I liked your delivery was great in that. Thank you. Like wrangling cats. Yes. We do establish these lizards at the top of this next scene. We see a lizard kind of puppeted and moved in the foreground. And I thought that was very cool. I liked it too

Yeah At first when it was far away I thought it was oh did they use an iguana But it was like no no it's not even real Yeah it's not even real It was puppeted to look like an alien animal Which we don't normally see Alien wildlife

No Do you know what it looked like? It looked like they took those Cardassian rats That they have The voles? The voles, thank you Yeah But this is a scene where they passed the lizard

So we established these lizards and Cor and Wharf are starting to get into it. They're starting to bicker a little bit here. Cora's criticizing Wharf for sparing Terrell's life. Worf says, Coral drinks too much. And so we see them starting to, for the first time,

Worf's idolizing Corr is starting to crack a little bit here. Yeah. Yeah, Worf has had enough. The core is losing his luster. Yes. And part of this is, due to the fact that they both have been you know they've in my mind they've held this sword and they've both had a moment of feeling like I have the power no I have the power so they're

starting to compete a little bit yeah their ego is driving how they're reacting in it now but that's why I thought there was some power to the sword right it seemed like that definitely it didn't seem like as soon as they were holding yeah yeah like it had some kind of grip on them yeah Dax does defend Worf in the scene to Corr. She says that Worf idolizes you

and Corr says, well, maybe I should have just left him on the space station after all. So he's you know, Corr's losing his appreciation of Worf as well. Yeah. They're starting to have a pissing contest. Absolutely. They hunt a lizard.

Hilarious. All three of us are involved in killing this one One little lizard, yes. It is an armored lizard, so it's a little tougher than a regular lizard. But holy cow, would you not trade that scene for a scene with an Indiana Jones kind of thing? Like, you could just show up with the meat and not need to have that whole, like, we're hunting. Yeah. It just felt like a waste of telling a story time thing.

It just, no, let's take that out and put something more poignant in. It was kind of a low-level action sequence, you know, or adventure sequence that you didn't need. Kind of ridiculous. All three of us needed to kill that thing. But when they cook up that lizard, it sure does look like chicken. It does. Yeah. Yeah, but you could have skipped that part and gone right to us eating it.

Yeah. What did they do to cook it? They use the phaser to heat up the stone and then they put the meat. Yeah. That's a good idea. On the stone. Yeah, it felt like you were. Yeah.

You were taking the cooked meat off of the, that red hot stone, maybe. Well, they eat this rock-cooked lizard, and Borg says that they can tell a very dramatic story of this hunt, basically. And Wharf's, again, getting more impatient, stop exaggerating. Worf gets mad. That he's eating food. Like, he's just picking at him now. Like, Worf gets mad at horror for eating with his sword. Oh, he's using the sort of Calus to eat with.

That's why he's mad. I'm on Wharf's side. I'm like, look, this is a treasure. A relic. A relic. You don't use it for everyday, you know, eating of a lizard. It's not a fork. It's not a fork.

He's mad at him. They argue some more. Basically, Khor is saying, you have to live. You have to live this experience. They're going to use this sword. It's not about, you know, these stories. It's about something that we experience. Right.

Which I thought was an interesting philosophical argument about, like, our traditions meant to be kind of honored and, you know, at a distance from us, or are we supposed to live that tradition? So is it more precious leaving it on a wall? Why not utilize what it was used for to begin with? Otherwise, you have this fabulous tool that can help you, you have hanging on the wall. Yeah. I thought that was an interesting argument. That seems kind of silly too. Yeah. Yeah. But I can understand using it like a fork is a little like, okay, no. A little disrespectful. Yeah. Well, Corr basically kind of suggests, that he understands all of this better than anyone,

and he may be the person to lead the Klingon Empire with this thing. Oh, that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Because Warf's like, wait, are you saying your intentions to lead the empire? He's like, well, I don't know. I'm just saying it's my intention to lead us to the surface. Yeah.

Maybe. Yeah. A lot of Koi sort of. Yeah, I didn't believe him. No. No. This is where I was like, are both like, no.

Yeah. They're moving on with Dax's got a tricorder out. Cora's got the bat lift leading the way. And Worf is very worried now that Cora's trying to take power in the empire. And Dax defends him, though. She's like, his heart's in the right place. So she's playing referee now to reference my limerick. She's definitely, yes.

Not the fun part. Yeah. Oh, my God. Gosh. This whole conversation, I feel like it should have been more hush, hush, you know, because I know they sent him away to go look for another blizzard, but how far away could he be? He's right around a corner.

He's right around the corner and everyone's talking to really loudly. Anyway, we don't think Cork can handle this. He just walked out of the main cave. He's right. He can still hear you. So that to me was my- I know. So that was my biggest issue with this scene.

I'm like, why? They're showing their hand, and he can hear every word. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Mm-hmm. I like Dax's line where she says, well, we got a problem. There's one sword and two, both of you want it. Yeah.

She just talked to the chase. Yeah. I'm just imagining, like, Dax gets so fed up. She takes a sword, breaks it in half. You get half, you get half, and walks away. Yes. Done. I like the triangle, though, the dynamic of Dax being more and more in the middle of this problem.

They come to a ledge in the caves, and this reminded me, by the way, just on a personal note, of the very first episode I directed Sacred Ground. We had some ledge work with Captain Janeway hanging off of a ledge and having faith. And this scene reminded me in my very first directing opportunities, which was nice. And I did some cave climbing stuff on an episode of Enterprise as well. So I was like, oh, yeah, I remember doing this. truck cave climbing stuff. It was fun. It was fun to direct. The caves are actually pretty cool. Yeah, they are. As long as your chair's nearby so you can sit down. Yes, and you have a mask for the dust. And it's a lot to be on that cement floor all day too. Yeah. With no support in your shoes.

Well, the way they start that shot of them climbing on the edge of that precipice or whatever you want to call it is it's a close up on Dax's shoes of her feet, right? Then it then it pans back. I kept feeling like why on God's Green Earth doesn't Starfleet have like away mission shoes like hiking boot kind of like you know what I'm saying I thought about it too we wear dress shoes basically

yeah all the time all the time and we're wearing them on as we're climbing through caves and stuff and mine was just like a teeny piece of leather there's no grip on the bottom no otherwise I wouldn't have slipped when I saved Lanara Kor's wearing his cling on boots and he

slips he falls wharf grabs hold of one end of So they're both holding the sword of Calus Right Yes Or is hanging by the bottom side And they won't let go

And Worf says Hey there's a ledge Right below you Just let go Drop down to the ledge And Kor doesn't trust him He won't let go He doesn't see it

He looks back He's holding on to my I'm holding on to Wharf To Wharf Right I'm trying to help him have leverage Right But no one can see the ledge

Only Worf can supposedly See the ledge Supposedly see the ledge And then Dax says, hold on, we'll pull you up. Pull the pulls both boys up. And then the boys go off and Dax takes a look at the end of the scene. She's like, I don't know if he was telling the truth either. She looks over.

Right. And then how, why, I see this little note from Garrett, why don't we try to pull him up immediately? That is a weird thing. Yeah, like out of the blue, now they have strength. Like, because they were holding like, oh, my God, he's about to die. It wouldn't get a second wind. you started to pull someone up right away yeah you're right you're weaker and weaker not stronger and

stronger so it was a little weird yeah i'm glad you wrote that thank you it didn't make sense when i was watching it yeah i'm glad you wrote that yeah because that was crazy because the setup was you're in your last breath he's about to fall off right not like you have more energy you see me struggling the entire time and michael doran's much bigger than me physically and he was in great shape i mean he's like six three and a half and i'm six feet but i mean standing standing next to him, I'm like a little leany being next to his muscles and everything. Yeah. So we're deeper in the caves.

They argue about the ledge moment. Kor draws his dagger. He wants the batleth. Give it back to me. Dax catches up with him. She's like, enough. Give me the batheath. I will hold the batheath.

You two are driving me crazy. Cora puts his dagger in. She takes the thing. And then he, Corr takes off. And Dax goes, he was right, says to Wharf. He was right. There was no ledge. That ledge was so.

far down it wouldn't have saved him it would have broken away so dax is mad like and i was mad at yeah yeah that's a dirty trick dude yeah and so it's great that they illustrated how he's not thinking straight yeah yeah yeah well still in the tunnels they're still walking dax is very tired i was thinking at this point like they haven't done any sciencing for a while it feels like the scienceing helped them a lot it's getting boring this episode's getting boring why are we still in the caves and why is it more things happening it's just a mindless sort of walking yeah they need to do some sciencing yeah um corn wharf don't trust each other to go to sleep dax is tired she's gonna she's gonna sleep on the sword though she's gonna sleep on the sword yeah holding a phaser yeah

yeah yeah and propped perfectly yeah you know that was like a no terry it'll work and you're like Oh my gosh, this does not look like I'm sleeping at all. I like the close-up of you there, though. It was a very flattering close-up that pushed in as you were going to sleep. Okay. Is there that weird moment where I looked both ways and it looked more like an eye commercial, a makeup commercial, than it did. I know. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Or it's coming up because I thought, I bet they left and I had two spots to look at. Probably. I swear to God, there's one where it was like. Robbie and I did not see that I commercial. I didn't see it at all. Watch it again. You will. Whatever you did, I thought was great.

She's asleep. Finally goes to sleep with her phaser out, ready for these two knuckleheads. And Worf yells, and Dax wakes up, jumps up. They're just fighting going crazy. These two, um, warf's like, I have had enough. It wakes her up. just as they're about to physically fight a phaser comes in the whole klingon gang is there another big

fight they get a they get attacked by all the klingons who somehow science their way out of that force field and uh i didn't know klingons were very sciencey by the way maybe they just broke it maybe what i didn't like about that scene i think i should have stunned both of them just boom back to back okay yeah well wharf's got core up on the wall and you stun warf he falls down yeah and then course but i should have just done both both of both of them have a nap ultimately you do at the very end right you do but still it's like yeah just stop i still find it funny that the scream ravi when he says i've had enough dach says what and wharf says his eyes he's been staring at me for three hours that that to me was hilarious

i'm like you can't stand in looking at you it's like two little kids mom what what's wrong he's looking at me. He's looking at me. It's not about being even physically accosted. It's about the almost touch, but not touching. Yeah, yeah. I'm touching but I'm not touching you. Yes, that's exactly what they're doing. Warf grabs core lifts him up on the wall. Dax stuns Wharf. Kourf says, I knew you'd

pick me and then she stuns core, which may be a lot. Yeah. Maybe it's just the comedic timing could have been a little tighter. A little sharper, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it still was funny to me. How did you guys get so far ahead of the other people that you can take a nap? You know what I'm saying? I'm like, this must be, this must

this underground area must be massive it must be like the size of like los angeles i guess what is the reality that we're in well i don't know i'm so confused yeah it is confusing it's like the twilight zone down here i watched it three times because the first time i was like what is going on i don't remember this episode the second when i'm trying to keep track and the third one i just headed on this morning as i was getting ready to come on yeah and i just peek out a couple times and go oh i still hate the cave It's too much time in the caves. It's too much time in the caves without something new happening. Yeah.

And to me, the story is this treasure has triggered the egos and the selfishness of both Wharf and Core, and they have to hit a rock bottom. And I don't know that we ever hit a rock bottom. No, we don't. Like it needed to really get to a climactic. I guess this moment where Worf is strangling him on the wall is supposed to be that. But it didn't feel. one more time later.

Yeah. Before we end up on the... Well, this is where you end up. Back on the Rio Grande. When you stun the boys... Yeah, you stun the boys. And then you go to Terrell and, like, I'm done with this. I need to get back on the shuttle.

And then you go back to the shuttle. Oh, this is that point. This is that point. That was not bottoming out for me either. Yeah. It didn't quite bottom out enough. Taral's in this scene, Robbie? He's not in this scene, is he?

Yeah. What? In the scene where he... throws him up against the wall and picks him off the ground this is warf and core fighting just those two right well they've she shoots just goes to tarrell now ham jamming device oh yes i do i go down to him on the ground and i'm like and now about that jamming device you're using to block our communication i thought he was dead what he's not dead to ral's still alive okay yes yes he's still alive the whole all the goons came back they fight

them, beat them, but then Wharf and Cork keep fighting each other. They keep fighting at the end. Okay. And that's when Terry, when Dex is like, you two have to stop. She stuns them both. Got it. Got it. Okay. Okay. It all bleeds together. It all bleeds together. Right. You're right. Do you know what bothers me too? And I was talking to Garrett about this. There are a handful of times when I tell them to stop it. But I don't physically get next to them and try to pull them apart. And I think it looks like I was told to just stay. And I think it looks like I was told to just stand there because it looks the impulse to go over and pull them apart felt like visceral when I was watching it like why am I not becoming like it would have helped too in their most what if

they hurt me yeah that would have helped smack them into what the heck are you guys doing sure yeah for me I mean it would just add more a more real response it would have been organic frustration yeah my frustration of them acting like children should be also at an apex as well as their own frustration with each other. All of this should have like exploded. They allowed you to react verbally but not physically where you would have pushed them away. You would have got between the two. It just didn't feel authentic. It felt like it got very muddy at this point in the story. You got muddy in this section. Yeah. Okay. Too many tunnels. Too much. Too much. I want to rewrite.

I want to rewrite. I do. I want to rewrite. I agree. Let's rewrite this. But I don't think the script is good. Let's make it a feature film length. I think LeVar will come back and directed.

It's going to be great. Yes. Oh, nothing on him. We're back on the Rio Grande. And the story is over. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I like, Dax is the boss.

She's clearly like, she's had enough of these two. She's boss now. Warf and Kor just stare at the, at the, uh, at the sword, which they've put on a pedestal. We're not sure exactly what happened. Yeah, where's that pedestal from? I mean, that's a really nice pet. Did we go all the way back to get to pedestal?

Let's go back for the pedestal. We could have more scenes in the tunnels. It's a replica pedestal, you know, so it didn't cost that much. Oh, there you go. They put it in the pedestal. I didn't know the replicator was that big. Yeah. Wharf and Kor are just staring at it, which I love their faces in this moment

where they're just like staring at the sword. Worf says the sword turn them against each other. And he says it's not their destiny to keep it. And they beam it away. And Dak says, this is for the best. And Worf says, you know, when it's truly destined to be found, it will be. And we cut out to space. We see the shuttle flying away.

And then the sword tumbles through the foreground. I like that. That was funny. I had to rewind. Like, did I miss something? it felt like a whole scene was missing yeah yeah they they jumped the story there like to keep us in suspense about what wait what are they doing with the sword we don't know what they're doing until we see it but it's uh-uh it's i hate shows where suddenly everything's resolved but we didn't

see the the interesting part is watching people work through something yeah yeah not to have it instantaneously oh now it's over yeah we don't see any of that we're okay Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the very end, when you realize they've beamed it into space, I kept thinking, why are you guys contributing to space debris? We already have enough space debris right now. Why? They should have beamed it onto a planet or something, just some random, you know, cave, another cave. Put in a time capsule and bury it. Yes. I mean, what on God's really going to be lost now. Like if it was lost before, it's really lost. Shame. You found the Holy Grail. Would you just like chuck it out into space? Nope. I would.

not. Okay, Robbie, what is your lesson from this episode? Well, it's funny because I didn't really say much in our recap when you guys were both saying, oh, I wish this sword had a power, like, could do something. I don't, actually, because to me, yeah, to me, the theme, the central lesson is that sometimes we give symbols too much power. Yeah. And it's these symbols sort of motivate people to do things that they wouldn't do,

but they're inspired by this mythology or whatever. And I think it's what we actually do in life that matters. Not these symbols shouldn't drive us. So to me, that was a big part of the story is that this is just a freaking sword. Like, why are you giving it this magical power or, you know, that you can run the Klingon Empire just because you have a stupid sword? to me that was a big lesson and if it did have some kind of power that lesson wouldn't have been as true you know it was all them putting imposing their feelings on this thing this object so i don't know

that's to me symbols can have too much power i like a kind of mess with our minds a bit okay so to add on to that i was like sometimes what you think a person a place a thing the idea the fantasy in your mind kind of takes over what you think it is and then when it's revealed what the truth is the authentic truth of the person the place or thing you need to stop right and stop the fantasy and go wait a minute yeah this is I had this whole fantasy of what this is going to bring me give me yeah and it's just not true yeah it's just a thing or it's a person that's not good for me. I mean, look what it's doing to them. So you have to really slow down and be more, yeah, mindful of what's really going on. Yeah, very similar, similar ideas. Yeah.

I initially wrote mine as being, uh, beware of power corrupting. That's what I initially wrote as my lesson. Yeah. But then I, I saw a quote from, I don't know, one of the writers. And they're basically saying that, you know, with the treasure of Sierra Madre, it's just, it's all about getting that gold, that treasure that just corrupts everybody and makes them go crazy. And then I kind of extrapolated the lesson from, you know, that we've learned from Voyager before. It's not the destination that matters. It's the journey, right? So they're so, so focused on getting the sword, right? That they didn't even look at, like, look, we just went on this huge adventure to find this thing. I mean, they didn't even... What did we learn from this adventure?

They didn't smell a single... What are we getting from this story? Exactly. No joy. No joy at all. No joy. No joy. And no smelling of the roses. They didn't smell any rose at all along the way. They were just so, oh, just consumed. Consumed with greed and all these images of power. Yes. It was very much like the ring from Lord of the Rings. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes. Yes. My precious. And they were both looking at that as they're precious. Both of them.

Yeah, definitely. What's the Patreon poll winner for theme slash moral lesson of this episode? Submitted by Andrew Kaplan. Glory cannot be found within an object, but within the heart. You know what? I wish I had Andrews sitting right next to me helping me put my thoughts together. So much more concise and poignant. Thank you very much, Andrew.

We need to do. All right. Well, we've come to the end of this one. So thank you, everyone, for tuning in to our recap and discussion. Thank you to Terry for joining us, and we yet again on one of our recaps. Thank you, Terry. Thank you. So next time, we will be recapping and discussing and reviewing the episode, Our Man Bashir, with Terry yet again.

Yay. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little bit more Terry. You know, I'm going to be So, you know, B. B.

B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B.

B. B. B. So, you know, but you know You know,

you know, Thank you.