The Delta Flyers - The Visitor

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, The Visitor, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell.The Visitor: Aspiring writer Melanie wants to know why Jake Sisko stopped writing at 40. Jake explains how his father died in an accident and then reappeared.  We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Randy Hawke, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Keir Newton, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, & Tamara EvansAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Cassie Brandt, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Lindsay Bundy, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Angela Clermont, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, Natalie Swain, Brian Heckathorne, & Mark JohnsonThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

All right. We are really excited to talk about this episode. I also just want to mention to people this episode deals with topics of death and grief. And so if anyone's struggling with listening to the discussion about those topics, you may want to skip this episode. Just wanted to let everybody know. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers. Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom. and Harry, join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space 9. Your hosts for today are my fellow Trek actors, Garrett Wong, and Robert Duncan McNeil. And of course, myself, Terry Farrell. And don't forget if you want the most amazing content, the complete, exciting, and exciting and extended version of this podcast, check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers. Sign up to become a patron today.

Hello, friends. Hello. You were so excited. I loved it. I love in this episode, by the way, people change their voices. Like, yeah, Sid changed his voice when he was the older guy. Terry, you changed your voice. Aaron Eisenberg changed his voice.

As a captain. Maybe we should do this in different voices, this part. Yes, I think we should. And I'm going to try a new voice. I like Terry's. I do not like Robbies, whatever that was. So I like that. Oh, that's a good one.

I'm going to do Marvin the Martian. Oh, what? Marvin the Mason. I like that old person voice, Terry, that you just did. Well, I did the old version. I like it. It's good makeup when you guys, too. People have laughed already.

You there? Okay, wait a minute, though. Oh, we'll get there. Okay, we'll get there. Let's not talk about it now. There is a birthday. We have to talk about Cindy Woodford. Cindy Woodford, happy birthday to you, June 13th. Happy birthday, Cindy. This was a hard one for me, I'll be honest.

What? And also, spoiler alert, I really liked this episode a lot. Okay, good. So I felt this pressure to do a perfect limerick, which is- Of course, when you feel pressure, you do your worst work. And so that's where I'm at. I feel like this is maybe one of my worst limericks. I could not come up with a decent one that I was happy with.

Cisco takes Jake to the wormhole. There's an accident and Ben disappears. Jake's heart breaks. Losing his dad is the worst of his fears. Jake spends his life trying to correct it. He can't ever accept it. Viewer warning, watching this. episode will bring on the tears.

That's very good. That's not bad. Your limerick touched my heart. Haiku number one for the visitor. Watching the wormhole. Cisco pulled into subspace. Jake severs the link. Number one.

Number two, here we go. Jake sees dad vanish. Tony Todd brings all the feels. I need more tissues A lot of crying The theme of crying is Definitely This is the most emotional

Star Trek episode for me In the history of Star Trek There's no other episode that pulls There's other episodes that make me cry I get emotional Like timeless, timeless Robbie I feel that at the end But this one is all throughout

I can't stop Yeah Yeah Written by Michael Taylor Written by Michael Taylor Written by Michael Taylor. Let's pause there for a second. Who's Michael Taylor and why does that sound familiar?

He was a staff writer on Voyager a little bit later. Yes. But I don't remember him ever writing on DS9 until this episode. Right. And also, Robbie, because you are correct in that, because it is for his first time to write on DS9, when fans saw the credits for this episode, they thought it was an inside joke.

they thought that that name was a fictitious name that was Michael Pillar and Jerry Taylor together to form Michael Taylor. They did? Yeah, so that was their online. Wow, someone's overthinking. They were like, who is this Michael Taylor? This is not a real writer.

It's Michael Pillar and Jerry Taylor together. That's what it is. He wrote 20 episodes, 20 episodes of Voyager. Wow. And how many of DS9 does it say? Four. Okay. So was he a base?

writer. That's what it looks like. I think he was a freelance writer. I don't think he was even a staff writer. He wasn't even in the writer's room. Okay. Oh, so then he got hired to be on the staff writing team for Voyager. Yeah. That's exciting. It is exciting for him. This is an episode directed by David Livingston. No. But it was not supposed to be David. I'm not surprised. This is simply like enough's going on for David. I mean, you know what I mean? He usually has like a lot going on in his episodes. Yeah. So what happened was the original slated director was René Obisinawa.

Renee was supposed to direct this. And the next episode, Hippocratic Oath, was supposed to be directed by David Livingston. But because Colomini was not available for filming, things got switched around. And basically, David ended up directing this episode instead of Renee. So, that's how to happen. Yeah. Because of Columnini's schedule Column was filming

They had to flip scripts or something like that Exactly And they wanted Colum to be in this episode In that scene with you guys Order you guys Because they had all this They had all this really cute banter Between O'Brien and Bashir

That completely got dropped Right So some of it kind of got thrown on to you Where you were saying to him like Oh I have to listen to you talk about this and that I like that Yes but that was originally O'Brien that was going to say some of that quick witty banter with him, right, messing around.

Well, I got lucky. You did. You got lucky that he was filming in Europe. I do have one more thing to say about Michael Taylor. Yeah, go ahead. So this was his first freelance episode. All of his DS9 scripts were freelance, Michael Taylor's. And then he came on as a staff writer to Voyager.

He was living in New York when he pitched and wrote the script. And he was trying to be a rock star. He was a musician. Seriously? Yes. Wow. Michael Taylor was... How curious. Yeah, he sang in a rock band. He was pursuing all of his musical dreams and was kind of writing on the side. And as his writing and pitching took off a little more each year with DS9, that's when he decided to move out to L.A. for Voyager. They offered him a job to come out for the last three seasons of Voyager. Yeah. But he was a rockster. A writer Michael Taylor based the concept of a fan visiting a reclusive writer who hadn't published in years on the famous 1980 interview given by J.D. Salinger to a high school student who simply turned up at his door. So in real life, J.D. Salinger, yeah, the famous writer, you know, had basically become quite a bit of a recluse and some high school student knocked on his door. Catcher in the Rye, right? Yes. Hello. Yes, he opens up the door and gives this massive interview or interacts with this high school student. So that's how Michael Taylor envisioned this.

He used that as the impetus or the influence of this episode, basically. The inspiration for this episode is that. Nice. It's pretty cool. Very cool. That's very exciting. Okay. So let's talk about David quickly.

David Livingston says that the visitor is the best piece of material that he's ever been able to direct in terms of the script. that's high that's high praise he's done a lot of episodes so that is high praise for sure for sure yeah all right guest stars

Tony Todd obviously as adult Jake Cisco Tony's already been in the Star Trek world in next generation he was Worf's brother Kern in Star Trek TNG he's also portrayed

different characters in Voyager and also more DS9 episodes and he was also one of several actors to be considered for the role of Benjamin Sisko. So he auditioned for Captain Sisko as well as Avery Brooks.

Galen Gorg as Karina, the wife of Jake Sisko. Looking her up, I just found out that she was kind of raised, born and raised in Hawaii. She was wonderful in the show. She was also on Star Trek Voyager in the third season episode Warlord. She played Norrie in that. That's the Kess episode, Robbie. You remember that one? of course we have Aaron Eisenberg as Nog

another guest star and Andrew Robinson Andy Robinson's daughter Rachel Robinson as Melanie his gorgeous daughter as Melanie He's so beautiful yeah So cool that

Yeah And so cool that she doesn't have to be Cardassian like her dad So she doesn't have to wear any makeup My God can you imagine if she had to do all that makeup But again great job and great casting. It is a coincidence that his daughter's on the show,

but she was so good. I'm sure she earned that role in a... I'm sure she had audition. She didn't get it. It was an offer to her. It might help you get the audition, but it wouldn't secure you the part. Yeah.

Is she still acting, do you know? Her most recent credit is 2023. So that's pretty recent. Yeah. A little bit. But she doesn't have a ton of, you know, it's here and there, here and there in terms of her IMDB. but you're right in her initial casting they would have known this is this is andy robinson's kid

you know right you would have known that for sure oh of course also did you know this terry she was one of the leading candidates for esri dachs i think i did but i it wasn't on the top of my mind because i don't remember meeting or if i did it was super brief like hi nice to meet you not sitting down having an actual conversation yeah yeah yeah wow that's cool one thing i I want to say about Tony Todd. Just to jump back to Tony. Tony was on Chuck. Oh.

What was he? Oh, what was the episode? Langston Graham. He did like, I don't know, six or eight or ten episodes. He did a lot as a recurring CIA general, Yvonne Strahofsky's boss. And yeah, he was a recurring on Chuck. How was it working with him on Chuck? Oh, he was great.

He was such a kind, sweet. gentle man for a six foot five you know very imposing man gentle giant he was a gentle very yeah and also for playing in the in the horror series that he did yeah candy man right well you know my very first convention for star trek uh when i did hellraiser it premiered the same month that i got the part of Dax. Really? Right? This was so weird.

And Marina Sertis went with me to the premiere of it. But when I did my very first convention, and I loved horror movies way more back then as a kid and as a young adult. So when I did my first convention in Florida, Tony Todd was there. Weirdly, Dennis, Madeline was there too. Somewhere I have a picture of the three of us. But Tony Todd, I was just like, oh, my God, you're amazing. You're in Candyman.

He said, I just saw you in Hellraiser. It was just like, oh, my God. It was so much fun. And we sat next to each other a lot during that weekend. And he was just a really nice man. So soft-spoken. Yes. One of more piece of trivia.

Many fans of De-Space 9 have counted this among their favorite episodes. there's a 1996 issue of TV guide that voted this episode the best Star Trek show ever of all Star Trek episodes of every single incarnation. Wow. Well, we start in the episode and we're in this kind of tight panning shot. David Livingston's shooting beautiful stuff. He's got so many great shots in this episode. Oh, is that house not just we just see one room, but it's, gosh, it's gorgeous.

And you feel like you're in New Orleans, Nalans. Right away. You do. You see the Spanish moss in the windows and it's beautiful, subtle touches. The colors, the patterns, the fabrics, all of it feel very, yes, kind of Cajun, Mayu kind of vibe. You see a picture of Ben and Jake framed. It pans by that. We see a baseball on a little stand. And then we see a hand reach into pick up the baseball for a second. then it reaches into a box and pulls out a hypo spray, and that's when we finally tilt up and see Tony Todd. So a really long, detailed shot at the top. And I'm so sorry, but right when they show Tony, I'm seeing the makeup and it's like, oh, it's really disappointing to me. I know

that, I know, because most of us know, old age makeup is really, really difficult to do. it is especially pardon me especially on darker skin it's even harder to do and that light it was just like whatever that what do you call the light

is it the light that's like your hair light your key light that's what I thought it was key light and then I thought I wrote it down and then I crossed it out I'm like it's called something else key light but if it had been a warmer color throughout the whole thing. It just accentuated.

Yes. Yes. Bright white light, almost blueish. Yeah. Yeah. And for me, now I cried too. Believe me, I cried. And I'm being the nitpick department.

Okay. But the makeup kind of takes me out a bit because I see how bad it is. And it's just it felt like, can't you fix it? Stop shooting for a minute and fix the makeup. Yeah. You're saying. They could have fixed it with the lighting is what they could have done as well. They could have helped it with the lining.

Yes, they could have helped it with the lining. But I could see where that wig line. Yeah. Where the... The lace from the hair, from the wig. You could see everything, right? Yes. All right.

Well, we get to see Tony. We hear a doorbell ring. He goes over to answers it. And a young woman appears, like you said, Garrett, kind of like the... The JD Sallenger story. The J.D. Sallenger story. Like a student shows up. Yeah. She's got a little cut on her head, too. And he takes care of her right away, fixing her up. We learned she's a fan of his writing. Ask why he stopped writing. He said, you know, if you'd come any other day, I wouldn't talk to you. But today, I'll talk. He starts telling a story when he was 18 years old. He lost his dad. And I was like, wait, what? Yeah. What is happening?

Yeah. Let's just to rewind a little bit on the comments that Terry made about how beautiful that set is. Illustrator John Eves based the design for Jake's house on the haunted mansion in Disneyland. Oh, I totally got that. Totally get it. Yes. He was very lush. Yes, very lush.

Tony Todd was cast as the older Jake after it was deemed too difficult to make Sirach Lofton appear to be in his 70s. Oh, wow. they considered that. I love Sorok, but I can't imagine him doing this episode. No way. No, no. And so Tony actually said that when he was filming this episode, he was actually in the morning process.

His aunt, his aunt who raised him. He was raised by his aunt. She had passed away three months. Wow. Three months before this. So he, every emotion that you see in this episode is real. It's coming from his real life. He was able to tap into that, which a lot of us, you know, as actors, if we are playing a role where our parent has passed away in the project, but in real life, our parents are still with us.

That's not the easiest, you know, state to be in. You have to pick a substitution. You've got to pick a substitution. And usually that substitution is not that strong. For Tony, it was so strong. It was just under the surface for him. Here's a quote from Tony Todd. He says that this script got me out of my.

shell. It's like she, his aunt, was whispering to me, go back to work. Doing this was as close to heaven as I can imagine. Wow. Wow. This is a sensitive guy. Tony was a sensitive guy. Oh, even that quote is getting me all worked up. I know. Gosh, okay. He continues his story. He talks about how close he was with his dad and he thinks maybe that's because my mom died, you know, and my dad's wife died so we both lost mom and maybe that's what brought them together and uh and he talks about how he was working on a short story but he kind of had writer's block and we see in this scene that it kind of transitions to we see cisco inviting him to watch a uh cisco invites jake to go see a subspace inversion in the gamma quadrant so he wants him to come on the defiant and go look at this amazing

event that's about to happen. Which only happens once every 50 years or so. That's the other number that's very important here to know. Young Jake reluctantly goes. He says, you know, I can hide out on the Defiant, just as easily as I can hide out here. So we cut over to the Defiant. Jake's in his cabin. He's trying to write.

Did you notice how he was writing, by the way? Yes. He had a stylist. He had a stylus, which is what you have on the iPads now. Because that was the time when we had those little, what were those things called? Newton. It was in, was it the no, no. She's talking about black, is it a blackberry that you're talking about?

No, no, it was before, uh, before, uh, cell phones. It was a way to. It was like a, it was like an elect, yeah, I think it was made by stylus. It was, uh, like an electronic, um, diary. Right. What? Oh. Yeah.

So you could write on it? Yeah. I had one. Oh, my gosh. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, it's just easier to write it on paper. Yeah, yeah. Because if it's not charged, it was just sort of the interim. It was like a cool little fun thing to have of technology.

Yeah. But, you know, it just, it was a brief moment for it, you know. I liked, though, that Jake had a stylist or like, you know, that he was writing out longhand, like a writer. There was something analog and kind of cool. about him writing on the pad and then you could see him sort of highlighting something to erase it or but I thought it was a little detail that he wasn't typing on a laptop or something he was writing this was just a little more connected yeah classic way yes yes I'm with you Cisco comes in Ben comes in and says you've got to come watch this he says I insist let's go watch

this thing and then I'll help you with your writing and suddenly in the quarters on the defiant there's a jolt um Cisco calls the bridge dax of course the smart one here dax says the wormhole gravimetric field is surging and then she reads that the warp core output is off the charts something's going on not good news Cisco heads to uh see what's happening he tells Jake you stay here but of course Jake doesn't listen and he follows um thank goodness he did by the way. I know. How would Cisco find that?

He would never. Yeah. What was that? The hyperspanter, whatever the thing was. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, exactly.

You'd have to find the tool on his own. Interphazic compensator. He's going to give him. Well, they go in there. The warp course in bad shape. There's people on the ground out. Dax calls Cisco. Are they dead?

Are they dead to you? They look dead to me. They look pretty dead. Yes. But that happened. But the two people on the floor? Yeah, because. Oh, 100%.

She didn't even look alive either. But if you rewind, the jolt happens when he's in the room with his son. His son is right. Right. He says, come to the thing. The jolt happens. He talks to Dax, and Dax says, oh, yeah, gravimetric field is surging.

Cisco says, pull us to a safe distance. And then Dax says, yeah, I'm on it, but we have another problem. Power output from the warp core has jumped off the scale. Cisco goes, Cisco to engineering. Engineering report. No response. They're dead. That jolt is what killed them then, right?

that must have been. Yes. But then why would their tools be all splayed across like they were trying to work on something? I'm a little, maybe, I don't know. Dax can explain it. Maybe their briefcases that are full of their tools wasn't shut all the way. And when the boom happened, they went flying. Thank you.

Right. Thank you for Dax explaining it. The briefcases. It's all about the briefcases. I don't know. It's been Dexplained for all. Dexplained. Dexplained.

Yes. Dexplained. You explained it. Thank you. Displained. But Dax calls down to Cisco that he's got to realign the core. They can't eject the core. Yeah.

And so Jake is going through those briefcases on the floor, trying to find this interfacing compensator that Cisco wants. He finally finds it. They've only got a few seconds left. Cisco steadies the core. He stabilizes it. And then as he tosses the compensator back to Jake, this lightning bolt thing happens.

and hits him and he suffers for a moment and then disappears. Like he fades into dust or, you know. Into nothing. evaporates. He, yeah. Yeah. His temporal signature went out of sync. It did.

Thank you for Dexplanning that. You're welcome. Okay. Anytime. Thanks. But as he disappears, I love Serox performance in this when he leans forward into this really tight close-up. Jake's in the tight close-up and Saratz yells no

and it was so emotional really it was a good no it was a good no Sirac Lofton really crushes it really crushes it in this this is like the I don't know he I haven't asked him

but this seems like it is the most demanding the most they've demanded of him as an actor yeah the most mature and he is stone up a thousand percent yeah of terry and probably the most demanding of any project outside of truck that he had done up to this point you know oh sure because he was a young guy yeah this material

was heavy and for him to be able to just jump right into it and not be afraid of it because if you're afraid of it you don't commit 100 percent and he had avery though he had avery helped out too safety net well how it helps out is that he had such a terrific relationship with avery and Avery made sure he fostered it. The truth is, Sirac is such a terrific guy, you know, how could you, I mean, I know I was there. I met him when he was little. Just, it was just, he was so, ah, just special. He had a spark about him.

He loved, he loves people. I should put it present tense. It was just, he was so magical as a kid as he is, as he is, his name. adult but it was he was free he was open he didn't he wasn't shy he was yeah he was just fantastic yeah so he really compliment yes he's a really good man yeah so jake senior we're back we're back in new orleans in the future uh jake senior says uh he'd never got over it that losing his dad at 18 like that um was just very traumatic and he starts to talk about them memorial service on the station.

By the way, I want to say, this episode is very unusual for most Star Trek episodes because there's a lot of narration and kind of explaining, you know, which I like a lot. Exposition. A lot of exposition. But it's blended with real storytelling. Right. Absolutely. And he's telling the story and we're seeing the story.

Yeah. As we're hearing the narration as we're saying. Correct. Correct. When they established the memorial service, that's CGI. Right. there's got it that is that all extras no well i got it yes they just switch sides you just don't see all of it right it just looks like more people because of how it shot too yeah it looked like

okay then they turn the camera around and you know what i mean and people move to the other side right and but it's the same people right but in this establishing shot they don't they show everyone it's so far back it shows okay everybody we have to ask david livingston but i'm I really believe more times than not, we had a lot of people. Another way that they can do a shot like you're talking about is what's called tiling the background. So it's a way of shooting a big wide shot and the camera, you sort of put the extras on one side and do the shot. And then you move the extras over and you do it again. You do it again until you tile.

It's almost like putting in tiles in a bathroom. You get this part and that part and that part. So maybe you have 100 extras. let's say, but you can make it look like there's 600 extras. You just do the same shot six times and move them around. They might have tied them. Also shoot it at a certain angle where they're not as close together as you might think that they are. Yeah.

I think there might be some of that too. Yeah. We used to use inflatable people for audiences. Yeah, there's a company. I forget what it's called. They have wigs. They have costumes for them. And you put them like in the.

crowd and you mix in real people with and so you've got like three inflatable people and then two real people and the real people are kind of holding the inflatable people yeah well they they can sit them up but in a wide shot you couldn't tell if it was inflatable or not because well mixed it in with the real people well whether they tiled it or not just seeing that set up shot that wide with made you cry shoulder well not it was touching i mean shoulder to shoulder yeah literally it looked like a thousand extras compared to their normal hundred they can normally have at quarks there's a thousand there it was very touching and moving it was it was and i think it was too because of the narration and yeah and the way they did that too yeah made it more intimate kira speaks at the memorial

but jake talks about how he couldn't speak he couldn't say anything it would have been too hard which reminded me of i i spoke at my father's memorial i gave the very last eulogy of and i had planned what I was going to say, but listening to all the other people, when I got up there, I lost it. Yeah. Wow. It was very hard. I totally related to Jake in that moment of like, it's hard.

He talks about how Dax really cared for Jake, which I thought was super sweet. I did too. Isn't there, it's just so great when you play character and they write how caring your character is. Yeah. It's just like, okay, my ego is because I'm going to take that on. Yeah, it was beautiful, beautiful shot. It's very sweet, yeah. Beautiful shot of Dax, you know, just kind of comforting Jake there.

And then we go to Quarks and he talks about how things are getting back to normal for everybody except for him. Him. Yeah. Just didn't, could not get back to normal. And Quarks is packed. Talk about a lot of people. I've never seen. Yeah.

And I also, did you see Nog's tray when he's busing glasses? There were so many plastic glasses like glued down. Clued onto it. Yeah. And he's holding it like he's like Arnold Schwarzenhanger. Yeah. Like they weigh nothing. Yeah.

Because they did. But you know what? I found interesting. I really like this. Nog's way to cope with trying to make Jake. feel better is you're just trying to be really upbeat like you do for a friend who's really down trying to make up for that loss and poor guy it was just yeah you know it's funny because i've when i watched the episode i always felt that when quark says get down there and bring up that

takarian tecarian mead and then nogg says to to he says yeah well he goes okay uncle then he looks at Jake and says, sorry, it looks like we're going to lose our Hall Suite reservation. And Cork in the background kind of says, you know what, Nog, things are slowing down a bit, and they're clearly not. I'll get someone else to bring up those kegs. You and Jake go have some fun. I thought initially when I was watching it, that this was Cork, you know, being nice to Nog, but no, it was Cork being nice to Jake.

Yes. 100%. That makes me want to call to. Were you high the first time you watched it? No, no, no, no, I'm just saying, no, I'm just saying I always felt. Yes, I didn't think of it that way. I just didn't think of it that way. And that's what I wanted to bring up.

When I watch these episodes, sometimes I watch it once, but most of the time I watch it two, sometimes three, sometimes four times, sometimes five times before we record. And every time I watch it, I always catch something different, something new that I missed. Every time. And then even now, in this recording, in this review, the recap with the two of you, I catch something else, which I didn't realize because I kept thinking, oh, he's finally being nice to his nephew. But no, he's still in the morning process. No, he sees, he sees what Jake's going through. And it's very rare that we see that kind of sensitivity from cork.

Oh, ever. Yeah. Without some kind of. Yeah. Pay off. Yeah. There you go. Yes. It's usually transactional. And he's even aware of it because quark says at the end, go before it changed my mind. He's aware. This is out of character for me. I like that. Oh, yeah. Nog is trying to get him excited about the holodeck and trying to get him out of his grief. But Jake's just not into it. He said he might do that deferred admission and go to Pennington back on Earth.

And Nog's super excited about that because he's going to the academy. So they could both be on Earth. But Jake finishes that scene with, you know what? I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm going to go to bed. He doesn't even go to the holiday. Yeah. Well, he says maybe I'll just stick around here.

And that's the first inkling of you understanding, oh, my gosh, this is where he was last with his dad. He doesn't want to leave this location, right? Yeah. Yeah. It does make you think that, like, I thought, too, right away, not the third time I watched a bit, but even the first time. Right, right. Thinking, oh, I bet he thinks he won't see his dad if he's not on the space stage. Yeah. Oh, but he hasn't seen him yet. Not at this point. I know. But if, I mean, because he disappeared. It's not like there was dust on the ground or anything. Sorry, I'm thinking like Dax. So I, you know, we're in an episode. There's like. Yes. I got it. There's got to be some Star Trek reason. He disappeared like that. Yes. Yes. Understood. Okay. So the next scene we're in Jake's bedroom. He can't fall asleep. Where he's kind of tossing attorney. He's kind of, he's not some, not good REM sleep.

but somewhat sleep, sleeping. And that's when the little whoosh happens, the effect a little bit of a lighter light comes in. He looks up, and now we see that there's Benjamin Cisco in person. All we hear is Cisco say, Jake, Jake says, dad, Cisco says, what happened, and he's gone. So two lines out of Cisco's mouth. So really, in his sort of stupor, I think Jake thinks this was an apparition. This was the ghost of my dad.

This isn't really my dad. He wasn't able to touch him. He disappeared so quickly. Or a dream. Or a dream, exactly. Yeah. So we go back to the house in New Orleans, and Jake Sr. talks about how it felt so real, it felt so great. But he says, Dax scanned the room and said it was probably just a nightmare.

And Jake Sr., our older Jake says, Nog went on to Starfleet. And he tried to write, but nothing. He just couldn't write anything. And he said he passed the time by playing Domjot and trying not. to feel alone. And he does mention this whole Klingon conflict and the changes this season. Talks about how the tensions are getting bad. And the Bajorans even entered into this mutual defense treaty with Starfleet to

protect themselves from the Klingon's aggression. Right. Because didn't we establish in the last episode that the Klingons are still there because they occupy the Kardassian outer territories. Yes. And they broken our treaty. So I just, I thought this was kind of exciting too. I really like that they push the story towards kind of a scary, dark place for all of us to go, wow, look what happens.

Since Cisco's gone, everything's kind of falling apart, yeah. Yeah. I didn't make that connection. You're right. Because Cisco's not there, it's weakened their position, yeah. Well, now that you've said that, Terry, now that remote gives me shades of it's a wonderful life, you know, when he wasn't there, guess what happens, right? All kinds of stuff hits the fan, basically. Well, Bajorans are leaving the station.

We see at the airlock people getting lots of Bajorans leaving because DS9 would be right on the front lines of a wharf if the Klingons, you know, decide to do that to attack. We go up on the promenade to the upper level and we see Wharf and Kira there telling Jake that he's got to leave. Is this a new uniform for Kira? It is. It is.

The very first time that we see her in the red, and it continues after this. She doesn't go back to the old color. Oh, we're in our spandex now. We switched from wool uniforms. Spandex? Yes. Oh, my God.

There's going to be more new uniforms? I'm so awesome. Oh, yeah. This is a big shift. I forgot about it, though. Right. But this is one of those real. It's totally not forgiving at all.

Okay. So these actually fit worse than the prior uniforms. Well, you know who spandex is. It's like stretches more. Yeah, it stretches more. Yeah. So less confining, the wool were really confining and itchy, but forgiving in that, I mean, they're still black, but there was still a little more, they were, um, they'd find all the nooks and carnies. Yeah.

Well, there was a little more give to them in the sense that they weren't skin tight. The new ones are skin tight. Tara, you're referring to the Starfleet uniform. You're saying they turned a spandex. right but we're talking about with with kira being with that pejoran uniform was that also switched to spandex as well then oh oh wow yes spandex too which is kind of what tng had didn't they have a spandex they had spandex she kind of had spandex to begin with kira did but it was more cottony yes it looks more this is more sheer sheer okay yeah it's it's more substantial

well it's interesting uniforms okay because kira or not kira but nana was quoted as saying that She felt that it was more restrictive what she was wearing before this. So, season one, two, and three uniform was more restrictive. And she liked this one better. He likes this one better for some. Oh, interesting. So, okay. I think so.

Comfort-wise and moving, as long as you didn't eat too much Thanksgiving dinner. Right. Yeah, they're way more comfortable. It's like wearing a, wearing out a workout outfit instead of. Yeah. You're wearing sweats out from the, I mean, you're just much more comfortable. She had two piece with a belt. She had a lot more going on.

Oh, yeah, she did. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, she's got the new uniform. She's with Worf. And they really want Jake to leave because of this Klingon situation. All the Bajorans are leaving.

They want him to be safe. Kira says it is voluntary. I'm not ordering you to leave. And Worf is very pushy about it. He says it would be very. He barks at him, kind of. He does. Mr. Not Sensitive.

Yes. But it would be prudent for you to. leave. Yes. Hey, that was a good warf impersonation. I'm actually very impressed by that, Terry.

Yeah, so he doesn't want to leave. And then we go to an upper pylon and Kira's kind of chased him up there. He's looking out of the stars. And I just want to say, this is a beautiful scene. It's a beautiful shot.

It's a oneer. We're on his back. He's looking out. Kira comes into the foreground and we see this reflection of her in the glass, which I'm sure. sure they put the glass in there because normally there's not glass. No glass. Yes, normally there's

no glass. Very touching. Very touching. She wants him to leave. She says his granddad wants him to come and live with him. And Jake begs her. He's like crying on the verge of tears there. And he says, no, he wants to stay here because everywhere he looks, he sees his dad. And he, you know, doesn't want to please don't make him leave. And she agrees. but she makes him promise to go if she insists, if things get really bad. When, yeah,

she says, when the time comes and I tell you to go, just do it. Yeah. Very sweet scene. I know. It's beautifully. Yeah.

And not a lot of lighting either. They're using shadows and everything in that shot, right? It's just very silhouette, which is so effective, I feel. Yeah. I do too.

And I think it's because we rarely do it. And that's why it's so powerful. Very powerful. And that's what Leonard D. Moe used to say about raising his eyebrow. Oh, really? Yes. You save those moments. And then they have big impact because they're special moments, not because you overuse them all the time.

Interesting. That's why they're powerful. Jake's coming around a corner. And this is right after he's just left. Wow. Yes. Around the corner, we see Cisco sitting, the way Cisco sitting, he sort of propped up against that back wall there

and it looks like he's just so tired or whatever it is. But I just want to I just want to interject in the at the big Las Vegas Star Trek convention that we've all been to there's one fan there. I don't know if you've seen him. He's a tall African American gentleman

shaved head always dresses like Cisco in every convention but at one convention he was sitting against the wall in that exact position and because I've never seen well I have seen this episode but I don't remember him sitting up against the wall like that. I was like, that's what he was cosplaying.

The moment that Jake saw him in the hallway. Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. So many people were taking pictures of this dude, of this, of this fan sitting against the wall. I said, what are they doing? Why don't, why he should stand up for this. Yeah, I was like, what does he do? But now I know why he was sitting like that.

He was duplicating this shot right here in this scene. Jake crawls over to him and he's, and at this point, he's actually touching his hand. So now he knows this is really his dad. This is not some. apparition or a ghost or a dream, it's real. Next, we jump to the infirmary where now Cisco is on a biobo bed and Dax is there. Everyone's working hard. O'Brien's there trying to figure out how the heck are we going to save this man. They think that his temporal signature is out of phase. So they try maybe using a containment field. They try everything that they can possibly try.

But again, the same thing happens. He starts, you know, phasing in and out. Yes, Fritzing. We put him in a containment field. Yeah, that doesn't do much. And then he's gone. And Jake is absolutely beside himself because now this is the second time that he gets to lose his father. And it's very, very difficult for him to see this. He's saying to his dad here, like, I should have known you were really alive.

I should have known that this was real and that it wasn't a dream. I shouldn't know. So it's part of Jake's whole thing of like, I can't give up on him. I can't let this go. I've got to. Beating himself up. Yeah. yeah yeah and he feels like it's his fault like if he didn't go to the where the warp core was

maybe his dad wouldn't have died yeah there's a lot of guilt there's a lot of guilt involved a lot of guilt a lot of guilt a lot of regret and then he does disappear finally at the end yeah and another beautiful moment from sarah where he cries out don't leave me yeah heartbreaking is the scene too where Cisco says how are you doing he says Jake they'll have me fixed up in no time how are you doing oh right there yes yes and that's where Jake really that's what he starts oh god that killed me yeah oh that just that moment it's so raw beautiful it's so real it was so real yeah but you know credit to sarok sarac is the one that sells that right yeah the how are you doing comment anybody can say that but it's

the reaction to how are you doing. It was so full from Sarak that it brought all of us to tears again, you know, so. And he says, don't leave me. Oh. Oh, yeah, it's rough. And we do go back to the future or the old Jake. To the Louisiana house.

To the Louisiana house where older Jake says it was worse seeing him alive and knowing that he lost him again. Mm-hmm. Made everything worse. I did notice in this conversation back and forth with Jake and Melanie that Tony Todd in one take he said something and he had a tear going down and then cut to her for a second

came back to him and there was no tear and I was like oh why did the editors let that happen like if you're going to play this beautiful moment of seeing Tony Todd with a tear keep using that take don't use a different take where you didn't have a tear yeah I did not I did not catch that no matter what yeah yeah you commit to

the tier you got to keep that going you know what i had a issue with uh they were super close is this where they're seated super close it felt uncomfortable to me i i felt like too intimate a little too familiar or something yeah there were some moments like are you going to kiss each other yeah yeah yeah and that was something that that bothered me i i like yeah i just yeah agreed Agreed. And I bet for me, the bother point was when Tony kind of pushes her hair back in that one part. And I was like, I don't know if you know her that well to do that. I was like, that's a little too. It felt a little too familiar. Personal space, personal space, you know, what's happening. Yeah. And there were a couple times how she reacted looked like. Love. Yeah. It looked like, yeah. It was confusing. Yes. Yeah. Well, she does say in this scene when he starts getting really emotional, she says, I'll leave, you know. Let me, let me, I'll come back later. That didn't fix it for me. No. When Jake Sr. says, no, you don't come back another time.

There will not be another time. You see, I'm dying. Did that fix it for you when he said I'm dying? No, and here's the thing that I didn't like about that. Okay. Here's what I didn't like about that. Why make that big pause, like the commercial break, come back for him to say, that's what older people say. That was like, I think that was.

It felt like a cheat. Yes. Or a trick. Yeah, like a cheap moment after having all this real grounded stuff. So these kinds of little things, these nitpicky things, took me out. And it bothered me because overall I felt like it was a very grounded, a deeply truthful piece. So why go there in the first place? It doesn't make sense.

Just read it out. Yeah. They didn't have to go out to the commercial on some. big grand statement that over that yeah yeah yeah which then he throws away after they come back from the commercial break right it's like and he's intending to which we don't want to spoil it but right right right yeah so that was even more irritating okay understood well we come back very valid and he makes a joke of the whole thing which terry didn't like neither did i right but he does say that she's a really good listener and he makes a comment you know that's important if you want to be a

writer. And I had the thought also important if you're going to be an actor. Like, I feel like for us as actors, that was a big part of what early on as an actor for me was observing people and watching how people behaved. I used to go to restaurants or cafes and just watch people and like look for gestures that I could adopt, you know, ways of energies or, you know, observation is really important for artists in general. Period. Yeah. No matter what it is. Music, writing, painting. Yeah. Dancing.

To further your point, Robbie, about being a good listener, being observant. Good listener, that is the tenet of the Meisner system of acting, which is all about listening to what your scene partner is saying and not about your own business. It's all about listening, listen, listen, intently. Listen and react to what you're getting. Yeah. But he continues his story. talks about how they tried to locate Cisco, they couldn't, the Klingon situation got worse,

and eventually the Klingons took over control of TS9. Wow, I know. The whole different timeline happening here. You can't get rid of Cisco. Yeah. They tried to recreate the accident, they tried everything they could, but failed, and they turned the station over to the Klingon Empire. I'm sorry, the whole thing about the whole, it's a wonderful life.

Do you remember when Jimmy Stewart, he's running through the town? And he goes, Merry Christmas, Mr. Potter at the very end like that. He's yelling at the bad guy. I could just see Avery book saying, you know, Merry Christmas to the Klingon's. Merry Christmas, Galron. Merry Christmas, Mr. Galron. Or whatever it is. It's funny.

Okay. I did like in this storytelling when it cuts to Jake on a shuttle leaving the station. and it's a shot over, again, over Jake's back, but you see the station, you know, getting smaller in the background. I don't think we've ever seen a shot quite like that, and it was really effective, I thought. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

We learned that Jake went to Earth. He studied at the Pennington School. He graduated, went back to Louisiana to be near his granddad. Lots of backstory gets shared in this long voiceover here. Gosh, I hope he voiced over it. instead of memorizing the whole thing only to have it be a voiceover. Yes, to be a voiceover over a other shot.

I mean, seriously, of the most amounts, think about whatever episode you had more, almost more than you could handle of the amount of dialogue you had. If it were replaced and turned into voiceover, wouldn't you just, why did you make me do that? But we learn from Jake that, He mentions his grandfather's a restaurant in the French Quarter.

Melanie knows about it. She says that there's a copy of the letter from his publisher when his first novel got published. His grandpa framed and put in the restaurant. And Melanie mentions that he wrote in this very house, Anselm, which is that first novel. And Jake mentions he met a woman after a while, fell in love. And there's a great transition at the end of all this story where we hear a knock or something someone says off camera or korena says off camera um i'm back but we're with old jake but he looks from melanie up like that he looks away yeah and it cuts to yeah flashback and i just thought

what a great transition i thought that was great too yeah a little detail that when i went back and looked at that transition i'm like oh david great job we meet korena the woman that he was in love with and married yeah yeah and nog is there as well in this flashback we see nog in a starfleet uniform he's got their makeup on and and uh Aaron did a much more mature voice a much deeper kind of adult voice not the nog energy that we're used to yeah and the nog energy he gave off before there was a lot of sort of this breathiness that he threw in there of this very overly excited sort of yeah manic type of kid of Frankie child and now it's gone he took it all out which is great we needed to see that we need to see an older mature nog it was great it was great they're having this reunion meal

they're going to catch up and and jake and nod catch up while she goes to get champagne i like his comment when when uh corina mentions fish he says well these woods are fish why do you need fish these woods are crawling with perfectly good slugs but then i love escargo but the idea of slugs just that's just louisiana escargo i don't think he cooks him okay he just ate some raw he ate some they're so chewy with his mom chewing him first he does we do see that nog has as really mature because uh karenna says you want me to chew your food for you too i suppose And he goes, well, I admit I'm much more popular with women now that I've stopped asking them to do that.

So we see that he's matured. He's letting go of these Ferengi traditions. Oh, my word. Well, we saw that episode with a double date where he messes everything up saying, now you're going to chew my food. And again, that's another thing that's so great about DS9. Things track from before that we see. And now they rip here.

Yeah, it does help. We do learn from Nog in this flash. back that quark finally got that moon he always wanted and uh that mourn is running the bar mourn has taken over mourn love that god yeah so uh off of a uh teacups smashing we flash back to or jump back to the future yeah where jake senior is finishing his story but he's out of breath and he's finding it hard to breathe and yeah she really melanie says i'll leave you don't have to keep telling this story? He says, no, no, no, you came a long way. You deserve an answer. And so he goes back to the Nog moment. Later that night, Nog had left. Karina comes in. There's a

moment where he said he couldn't sleep. And she says, yeah, I'm not very tired either. And they start to walk off for a little nuky time. And then boom. There's a light flash and there's Cisco to ruin nooky time. Sorry. No grandchildren. If you'd leave us alone for a minute. That would be your fault, yes, Captain Sisko. You wanted grandchildren, but you prevented it from happening. We could have just had some grandchildren. But yeah, he's there.

Cisco recognizes him, by the way, immediately. Yes, yes. Which I thought was really lovely that it's just saying that, you know, even with all this time passing, that Ben would recognize his own son. Right. right 40 years later that we would yeah that we we just know i like that um after the break korena has called starfleet to come cisco's you know thrilled that jake is married he asks about the grandchildren here i wish jake had said well we were just about to do that that you

appeared thanks dad yeah corina shows these books that have these glowing titles on them that made me cry. That choked me up. So, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. And he says, I always knew you were going to be a great writer. This is where Tony Todd starts crying. Jake is crying here. And this is where he says, again, I feel guilty. I should have kept trying to find you. I just went on with my life. So the first time he felt guilty because he just lost faith. He thought it was a dream. Now he feels guilty that that he didn't keep trying. He says he just went on with his life. But Cisco, Ben says, everything you've accomplished matters, you know, which I thought was a great

kind of reinforcement of, you know, for his son of what he did with his life. Well, yeah, doesn't Cisco say I'm proud of what you've accomplished, but then Jake says none of it matters now that I know that you're still out there lost somewhere. Yes. Right. So he's sort of, he's now on this new journey. He's like, okay, I can't waste time writing, right? I need to find my down. And that changes his trajectory. Everything. A trajectory is changed. From enjoying, at least enjoying the life he has. Right. To now. Back to this obsession and he's got to do something about it now. Oh, my word. Right. He tells the story he gave up writing. He decided to pursue science. And Dax was a big part of that, to help him figure out the circumstances. of how Sisko was returning, you know, randomly over the years. And he devotes his whole life to it, so much so that he lost Carina. So his marriage fell apart.

He did figure out how to recreate the accident, but needed one more thing. He needed the defiant. And now we cut to the bridge of the defiant. And Nog is a captain. We see that he's a captain. We've got the whole team reunited. Old age makeup for everybody. Yeah. I did a little bit of math. So when he says at the age of 37, I went back to school and started studying subspace mechanics. So that means the last time he saw his dad was in the infirmary on deep space nine when he was still 18. Right. So now that's 19 years of pass before he gets to see his dad again. It's just just what? You know? And then the next time after this moment is another 14 years past. So almost two decades, both times. You know, it's very, it's just.

It's just so sad. It's so, oh, my God. And I just can't, and I think for anybody watching this episode, they start thinking about their own parents, thinking like, oh, my gosh, what if I was only able to see my parent once every 20 years for 35 seconds, you know, whatever it is, you know, one minute. Like, it's horrible. It's just the worst thing that could. Torture.

Torture, torture, torture, torture, yeah. Well, we're lucky because we get to see Dax and Bashir in old age makeup. Old age makeup. How did you feel about that, Terry? Yes, let's talk about that, Terry. Well, here. There's the bummer. I am sensitive to latex. And so my face was itching the entire time.

So you were so uncomfortable filming. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. And now, if they did that makeup now, they could use silicone. They could use a different material, but that's not what they used. And I wouldn't feel it. You wouldn't bother me. No, at the time, though, but now it's like amazing when I think back on it, I didn't realize, obviously, until I had to wear the makeup house. sensitive I actually was.

Even just the smell of it. Right. But that's all they had in the 90s. They only had latex. There was no silicone in use at that point. Wait to you sell how much I kiss Wharf. And that smell of that latex is like, Oh, no.

So to this day, to this day, you go every time you even get anywhere near that smell, right? Well, think about it. Like there were so many aliens that did have the latex. That smell was sort of. oh boy it's a very very distinct smell as well and i was so excited yeah i think that sid was too i don't remember i think both of us were like yeah to do old age makeup yeah we finally get to have you know something exciting happened something different yes and as soon as it was on and started to it i was like okay i am so over this this is awful how do you deal with it's like

and the terry not don't move your face i'm like i can't help it and it's just so bad but you know what are you going to do? What are you going to do? The show must go on. Yeah, suck it up, Buttercup. Well, let me ask you, did they, did Michael Westmore, in essence, do less a old age makeup on you to reduce the amount of latex? Or, because it looked like Sid had way more than you. It looked like he had a lot more rubber in his face.

I agree. No, that was one day. I liked your version better. I like less. Yes. Your version looked more. He made my nose bigger and that I was like, oh, I don't like it. I'm like, what is that?

This weird drippy nose. It's big. We only did it once. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So it wasn't a matter of, there was no tweaking or anything. It was just major makeup, put it on your face, and here we go, off to the races. I feel like your makeup worked better.

Your voice looked, worked better. No disrespect to Sid. His makeup was a little over the top. And Sid's voice. is very high just I I think or he chose to do kind of a high old man voice and it just didn't work for me rather than I if he had just done a you know I don't know maybe a different voice would have worked better maybe I didn't buy him in the old age as much as I bought you and that's a compliment I don't mean to say that you look old it was your no I just think it was more your acting was more

grounded and the makeup was more grounded I think yeah I think because too when you think about I mean, I remember choosing, I watched it and thought, I remember choosing to feel a little more stiff in my body. But otherwise, being a little more measured, a little stiffer. Yeah. But otherwise, there's not, if you do too much, it's not really how people that are older, my dad and mom don't sound like old people on the phone and they're in their 80s. Yeah, exactly. just don't. So you have to consider those things too. Yeah. The makeup's doing a lot of work for us. Yeah. So scale some of that back. And yeah, we're not on stage. We're not super far away.

Right? You don't have to sell that you can't move. I thought you did a great job. I was really impressed. Thank you. We go into the engine room next. And old Jake is talking about the subspace flux isolator that they set up in engineering, they prepare, they banter a bit while they're waiting. Bashir talks about how much Dax loves coffee. She's got to have coffee. No, I need it. He needs coffee, which I thought was a nice little detail. Her response is, well, it's the only thing that kept me awake while you prattled on about your latest paper, your new backhand, and your kids' science projects. So they're just bickering at each other. I love it. When you're listing those...

But when you list those things, you say your paper, the backhand, the kid's science projects, if you look at Sid, he's so proud of him. He's like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. He's nodding his head like this old geezer like, ha, ha, ha, yeah, that's my life. He really does this really funky head bob, which to me was very funny to me. I loved it. It was sweet. Yeah. Well, while they're bantering, the wormhole starts its inversion. Nog heads back to the bridge.

Jake's device starts to make this hole in the air, and suddenly there's the image of Cisco sort of appearing like a ghost almost, which I thought was a great metaphor for kind of grief and memory and nostalgia that we see these sort of hazy, ghosty experiences. I like that it was sci-fi, but yet organic in a way. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. So Cisco starts to appear.

And then Jake sort of gets close to him, you know, moves over to him. And then they both go into this sort of hazy look. And they both disappear. Jake and Cisco both disappear from the Warp Corps area. Yeah. Cisco never materializes fully in this timeline, in this moment. He never comes into full color. He's still that hazy thing, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And they go into this amazing limbo shot, which I thought was beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Like they were in a cloud. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. How do you think they did that, Robbie? I think, well, I know they did a similar thing on Enterprise that I directed. They had a recurring kind of storyline about this sort of white limbo. And I think David Livingston sort of went back to this methodology and used that to establish the enterprise look. And then I did an episode where we had some of that as well. I forget what you call it. Is it like silk backdrop?

I don't remember. They had white and it was coved and the floor was painted and they used filters and they use some smoke and lighting to get, you know, the smoke sort of backlit. It was a combination of a few things. That makes me think of fashion shoots. Yes. When a photographer has painted floor to ceiling. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was like a fashion kind of, I forget what you call those. the coved. Yeah. Well, cove is a great way to describe it. It's like you fill in the corner of the walls. Yes. It's just rounded. Yes. Yeah. I think it was some version of that. And they can do that to big stages too. Oh yeah. It's kind of great. Yeah. So we're in this limbo area and Jake is desperately trying to reach Dax. He's calling to her to rescue them to get him out of this limbo. But Cisco's not panicking. He wants to know about his life, about his writing, you know, how Jake's doing. And Jake reveals he gave it all up because it was too much to do for this rescue.

Yeah. And Cisco says to him, you've got to let go. You know, you've got to let go of all this. And you've got to live your life. You still have time to make a better life for yourself. And that's when Jake sort of flickers and disappears and he's back in the engine room, just heartbroken, crying. Dax goes to comfort him.

And that's where we end up back in the house. Yeah. But at the end of that last scene, Cisco definitely, his final thing is, promise me that you will do that. Promise me, right? So the first draft, the way it was written, Cisco Jr., Jake Sisko never goes back to writing at all. And that was not satisfying for the writer's room. And they said, we need to change that. So in the, in further rewrites, they added this scene where, where he tells him, go back, live your life.

live your life and then the payoff is he does have his final works written at the very end. So that was a change that they did, which I think works better because they were saying it was really very bitter to keep it in that he never went back to writing at all. And that's just too dark. Way too dark. It's just sad. Way too dark. You just wasted your entire life, you know, trying to get your dad back.

And Cisco, it's like things in three, Cisco says, you know, take your nose out of your look around it's life and then there's this moment that we just experienced get back to your life and then Jake senior says it to Melanie yeah so they happen and it happens in a three yeah love it okay yeah so we go back to the house but now it's daylight and so Melanie's been there all night long I guess listening to these stories and it's morning it's a new day I think it's funny that they don't acknowledge that he says something about like i don't know did he say yesterday somewhere in there does he he seen and i was like can we just talk about how it's morning right now he was there all night long yeah it's like that's a long time did there yeah yeah but this is where

he shares his new writings the one that dad told him to go back and live your life so he's got some new writings he shares it with Melanie and he gives them to her and uh he said he even wanted to write some more he had some more ideas but there's no more time yeah and she's like wait a minute what do you mean what do you mean no more time and he understands finally that his his dad is in limbo and he explains his thinking yeah that he was frozen in time at the moment of the accident and the link between them is like an elastic cord every time the cord would get so taught it would yank him forward into my time but only for a few minutes and he realized that if his motion through time came to a stop that the cord would go slack and that he'd be lost in subspace forever if he could cut the cord

when it was at its strongest tension that he'd be bounced back into the moment of the accident so he's got that's his his theory sounds like a shaky theory his last resolve right he doesn't this is his last option yeah that's it and and garrett how old do you think he is at this point this this this is this this this is this this this is this 70 this is him how old is 70 or 80 or something no no wait a minute this is uh yeah i'm guessing he's at 80 at this point, right? It doesn't really say. It doesn't really say, well, how much time has passed from the Defiant with old Dax and old Bashir. We don't know that time to this time, do we?

No. It's never been said. Okay. So we're assuming another 20-something. Oh, wait a minute. No, we don't know the time. We absolutely do not know it. So you're going to assume he's in his 80s at this point, though. I would think so. Okay. I would think so. Yeah. But Melanie gets it when he explains his theory that she realizes he's going to die. He's planned this to happen this way. Then we've got this moment where she leaves, she thanks him, and she gathers her things, she leaves.

And then Jake gets up, old Jake, he takes a manuscript from the shelf, he takes the baseball from its stand, and he sits down and he sort of starts dozing off or dying, I guess, here. Because of the hypo spray goes back to that first moment. He's been giving him these injections that will time out to exactly when that tension, that elastic band is at its strongest. Anyway, so Cisco appears in this moment. And Jake shares his new manuscript.

He shows him he dedicated it to his dad. And he tells him, Dad, you're going to go home. That dedication line, read the dedication to my father who's coming home. Oh, my God. I'm just bawling at this point. Just, you know. Mm-hmm. And he doesn't understand.

So Jake Sr. does not understand. Sorry, Cisco does not understand. Jake explains to him exactly what that means about the whole. The only way for me to really bring you back is to cut this link, to sever this link while we're together, which means I have to die right now. And again, such a sad scene. Right. And then Cisco coming to the realization that his son is going to give his life in order for him to live. again is just, oh my gosh, just the layers of emotion that are coming across.

And then Cisco's final line, Jake, my sweet boy. Oh, my God, I'm still crying, just thinking about that. But how about, I'm sorry, but the lead up. Which part? When he says, Cisco says, Jake, you didn't have to do this, not for me. And Jake says, for you and for the boy that I was, he needs you more than you know. Don't you see? Yeah.

We're going to get a second chance. Yeah. Yeah. That line. I know. It's sad. Yeah. Hmm.

I would like a second chance with my father. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And with their younger selves, like wouldn't we all like to get our, that our inner child, that young, young version of us, another shot. Yeah.

Cisco's last line, Jake, my sweet boy. Yeah. Jake passes at that moment, and that's where Cisco gets thrown back into the engine room. Oh, wait, wait, wait. And Jake reminds him. Make sure you dodge. Right. You tell him. You tell him. Just remember to dodge the energy discharge. Yeah. And he does. We see Cisco the point of realization that, oh, my God, energy charge jumps out of the way, gets Jake out of the way as well.

And Jake's like, how did you even know that that was going to happen? And he says, well, we're just lucky this time. And Jake says, are you okay, dad? It's just goes, I am now, Jake, I am now. And that that ends the whole, the whole episode. The only thing for me that really, as good as this episode is, it's like, what kind of poison is that? I mean, it's like a 37-hour poison that sort of gradually affects your system. I'm like, am I right?

I mean, like, what the hell is going on here? Or maybe it's like a two-parter. Like, you've got to do one part to be prepared. Oh, the second one is the final one? Like getting your shingles vaccine. You have to wait three months to take the other one. Yeah, it's like a shingles vaccine. Okay.

I was like, that's the longest acting poison I've ever seen on any time. Because she leaves the next day. And that's when he passes. The next morning. But he's got to do the final shot. Well, I guess. Okay, fine, fine. I'll buy that then.

What is your lesson or moral of this episode, Robbie McNeil, and then Terry? I wrote down, if you get obsessed with things that have already happened or try to control the future, you only miss the sweetest part of being alive, the present. That's life. So, yeah, it's kind of what Jake's, or Ben's advice to Jake was, like, you know, pop your head up for a minute and look around you. That's life. like what's happening right now is life right that was my lesson Terry I agree with Robbie mine was try to not future jump and ruminate in the past you have to try so hard to just remain present yeah Garrett what's yours I just said take the time to smell the roses you know but I also

wrote down I think the best lesson is the is the quote from the first time that Cisco says it to Jake inside the Defiant before all this craziness happens. Poke your head up every once in a while and take a look around. See what's going on. It's life, Jake. You can miss it if you don't open your eyes. And he almost did. He almost did.

I've almost did. I'm so happy you read that quote. Yeah. It's a great quote. Well, our Patreon poll winner for theme moral of this episode is submitted by Justin. The profound bond of love and sacrifice between parent and child. knows no bounds, even if it comes at a great personal cost. Nice. Thanks, Justin.

We just finished recapping and discussing the most emotional episode of Star Trek ever. Thank you to Terry for joining us on the most emotional episode ever. Thank you, Terry. Thank you for having me. Of course. Join us next time when Robbie and I will be joined by Armand, and we will be recapping and discussing the episode Hippocratic Oath, which should have been directed by David Lipson. Livingston, but instead was directed by Renee Obergen-Wa, who should have directed the visitor.

So there we go. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. For everyone else, we'll see you next time. You know what I'm going to be able to be. You know, I'm going to be B. B.

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