The Delta Flyers - The Way of the Warrior

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, The Way of the Warrior, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell, Armin Shimerman, and special guest host Michael DornThe Way of the Warrior: When a Klingon fleet under General Martok arrives at the station ostensibly to protect the Alpha Quadrant from the Dominion, Sisko recruits Lieutenant Commander Worf to discover the Klingons' true intentions. We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano,  Randy Hawke, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Keir Newton, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, & Tamara EvansAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Karen Galleski, Nicole Brettell, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Lindsay Bundy, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Angela Clermont, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, Natalie Swain, & Brian HeckathorneThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark Dax and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts for today are my fellow Trek actors, Terry Farrell, Arm and Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and special guest host, Michael Dorn himself. Woo-hoo! And myself, here, Wong. For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, check out Patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Hello, everybody.

Michael, we are so excited to have you. Michael. Michael. Hey, Michael. The ultimate Klingon warrior. Oh, my gosh. Good to be here. Good to be here.

And my TV husband. Michael, you know, Garrett and I have not seen DS9 before. We are watching it for the first time in real time. So I'm aware that Dax and Worf had a relationship only because of photos at conventions. That's all literally all I know. So this was really exciting to see you come on the show. And this was huge. What a huge idea.

Well, Michael's coming on the show originally was huge to us as well. Very important, very important. And he brought a lot of people with him when he came over. So we were very happy about that. When you got the job, Michael, did you binge watch seasons one, two, and three before you started working? Or did you just say, I'm going to just go into this and not look at prior stuff? I don't know. Yeah, how much did you know?

Well, you know, I've always loved Star Trek. There's a lot of, you know, a lot of individuals that, oh, I never watched the show. But I love Star Trek. And so when the show was on, you know, especially because, you know, Terry was on and Armand, you know, who I knew. So I had been watching the show anyway to see which way it was going. So I didn't have to binge watch it. I mean, you really couldn't binge in those days. That's true.

That's right. There was no Netflix. No, you could not. There was no streaming service. No, there was no binging. I was in, God, I was in someplace, Boston or I don't know how they find me. But I get a call in my hotel room from Rick Berman. And he says, hey, Mike, how are you doing?

Fine. And he goes, what do you, what do you think about coming back to deep space? And I had never thought about it. I mean, for us, it was over and done with it. And I just kind of went, well, sounds interesting. And that's how it started. Wow. But I did know two things.

I did know that whatever the reason that they wanted me, it had to be a good reason because they wouldn't do this if it didn't have a good reason. They didn't have a story. Either I was going to help or else I was going to be, you know, an overpaid asshole. and uh you did both i did oh my goodness nice nice arman okay armin okay you opened me up to that sir that was just slipping out one for arman how many does he get michael how many does he get as many as you like five yeah five That was one, a five.

That was pretty good, too. No, and I've never had that situation before. So it was really interesting to see, you know, like it was a challenge. You know, it was a real challenge to see, you know, what, how it, you know, everybody and not necessarily the actors, but, you know, the audience and, you know, would react. Well, you've been quoted as saying your first day on the set, it was, there was a sense of familiarity. because of the trek that you'd already been acting on. But there was also that undercurrent of nerves that you had as well, that you were quoted. So maybe you can speak to that a little bit.

Or maybe that was a quote that was not from your mouth. No? No, I didn't have nerves about it. Good. Because number one, you know, we, no joke, our stages were right across the street. Yeah. I mean, right across the alley. For two years.

Yeah. And so we we saw everybody every day, you know, just about. And so, you know, and I go over and I talk to Avery and, and I forgot who else was on the show at the time. I think it was his girlfriend, Penny. And I had known Penny. And so it wasn't, you know, like you're coming into something cold at all. And it wasn't nervous. It was just. And I didn't really have any of that stuff. I just went over there. And the one thing I did think was really wonderful is that, you know, Armand called, God, the day before, the week before, when it was all set. And he said, hey, Michael, welcome to the show. Oh. And that was, that was, you know, but, you know, I discovered that he didn't do it out of his kindness of his heart.

but you have to have a heart to do that you have to have a heart to do that okay one for michael one for michael we're tied they're tied yes but yeah so no no that was that wasn't the uh no that was i don't know who said that but that well that's a thing because we we look at different things we look at wikipedia we look at memory alpha and there's a lot of quotes on there and i always think like are these really valid and now we know that some of these are not can't trust it no trust the internet no if i may change this up just a little bit yeah michael how long had it been between warf on tn g and warf on uh d's paceline six months so wow there's nothing to be nervous about you just i mean that my hiatus was usually three months so you know what the hell what happened is that i was uh we finished the movie in 94

it was out in 94 because we went right to the movie right after the show was over yeah and uh and then in 95 you know I was doing something else and I went to deep space in 95 when you came back from in July July wow so you just finished filming generations basically yeah right is it yeah less than a year wow about a year something like that okay Michael you said you guys were right across the alley the street from each other your stages so were we because we took over Voyager took over the sound stages yeah yeah the TNG stages eight and nine eight nine but it's funny I don't remember and I'm not sure why but I don't remember going and visiting DS9 like you talked about going over there and talking to people you guys didn't we no did we they did they did

oh I feel bad you guys were a little snobby no I tried remember and then the memo you did a memo came out saying a voyager and d space nine after you to stay on their own set and eat their own craft service like we got a memo you're a memo really yes wow we never got that memo no i went over and ate your stuff all the time well that's probably what it began there yeah probably did my goodness no they at tNG i remember on two occasions came over and serenaded us were you part of that serenade michael no jonathan and brandon i believe pa I don't remember, but they came over and actually sang to us. Certainly in our first week, they sang to us.

And then I think they came back again and sang to us. Yeah, there was a lot of going back. And if we didn't go on each other's soundstages, we did visit each other's trailers. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. For sure. Yeah, we didn't do that.

And Michael and I knew each other before I got Deep Space Nine. Yes, we had mutual friend. And so I was super excited. excited that I was going to get to work with Michael. I mean, I met him through Marina, too, right? So I met Marina and Michael around the same time through the same friend. And we were pretty stoked getting on the same set together. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, I think what happened, it's different. That was when the guard really changed on Deep Space Nine because, or the attitudes of the producers. and everything after Gene died, especially when Deep Space happened. I mean, they really tried to keep us separate. That's what we, I remember. It's the old divide and conquer.

They didn't even, on our show, no, no, in Deep Space, they didn't want you talking to the writers. Yeah, that's right. They didn't want you, what are you doing, you know? And you're going, well, I have a night, you know, well, I just do what I say, you know, and really, And it kind of started towards the end of Next Generation. They really kind of started doing that. But we had established already that we were talking to the writers.

I mean, we had a – but on Deep Space, it was like, oh, no, you know. Other than Terry, Terry Farrell, and Sirak Lofton, and also Nicole DeBore, I had more interactions with Russ, the security guard for the Deep Space Nine stages than everyone else. in Armin, of course, but everyone else I didn't know René Obisianois at all. I didn't know Nana at the time at all. I didn't know them, right?

Yeah, we were, they actively discouraged us from going across the alley, honestly. There was a, I forgot about the memo. Yeah, which is really, I think you're right, Michael. It's a control thing. When Jerry came on the show, we got to be, we got to be pretty good friends. And even from the start, Kate,

I would talk. But, you know, yeah, it's, and it changed. The business changed a lot. Before then, as, as, you know, in the old days, as Armand knows, the, um, the two, that's two for you, that's two for you. The old days. Armine knows. Oh, my goodness.

You mean silent film, silent film and radio. In those days. I think he's referring to my white. You probably missed that one. Before, the producers were, they had one thing in mind, and that was the show. Whatever was great for the show, that's what they did. You know, the writers talked to this, and I mean, it was, and when that started to change was, I think, the last of our show in the beginning of Deep Space.

That was when it really started to change. Anyway, but that's, yeah. Can I tell you something that Berman once told me about that? Sure. So he found that when the writers of TNG and the actors of TNG were getting together for script readings, which we didn't have either, but you guys did. And what happened was the actors would go to the writers and say, I want this, I want that, I want, you know.

And Berman decided I'm not going to have that happen anymore. And so that was perhaps the catalyst for keeping the actors in the rights. apart. Hmm. Yeah. That is not really true. That's what he told me. I'm only saying what he told me.

I wasn't there. You were. Boy, I wish we would have had table readings. Those are awesome. The first six months of the first year, it may not even been six months. It may have been like really short, like three months or something like that. They had table reads. And the table reads were, were pretty lively.

As table reads tend to be. Well, this was, there was a lot of stuff going on. I mean, it wasn't necessarily about the work. But, and that's when it, that's when it's, they stopped it. They stopped at the first year. Okay. And Rick wasn't, what Rick was, he was in there, but he wasn't really running. in the show yeah jean jean and and i think morris hurley and um um there was another guy god i forgot

his name but they stopped it fairly early they stopped it fairly early and they never had him again well it takes up time we were able just barely each week to or each eight days to squeeze out an episode so the hour or two spent doing table reads um would have taken away from the time that we needed to shoot the episodes yeah well you know and and i think the table reads are really good um when that when they are about the the work you know like uh like if i went into table reads and and i would go okay what do you want me to do with this you know what does this mean and when you're talking like that uh then it kind of goes smoothly because you're going but like i said it was it was really lively in a lot of ways so anyway yeah i also think

think table reads are good for cast bonding because you hear the other stories. I mean, of course, everybody gets the script, but honestly, I didn't always read every word of the script, go bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, my line, because you're so busy. But there's some bonding where you get to hear them read their scene, you know what their story is, where their arc is going. Yeah. And you just connect with the cast. I think that can be really helpful. And you see the writers and producers. It's So you're all a cohesive team working for the same goal to make a great show. No, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't read through the script. You didn't?

So you had like a party? No, no, no. We would actually pick the things that when we'd start and we'd get to a certain point and people would have concerns. Oh. And they go, hey, what about this? What about this? And then they go a little further and they go, okay, wait a minute. Why am I doing this?

Oh, man. We didn't go through the whole script, yeah. Oh, interesting. So it became like a work session. That's what you heard, yes. Yeah, that's what I heard. All right. Well, let's say, happy birthday to Heather Selegg, May 31st.

Happy birthday, Heather. Yay, happy birthday. We also have Marie Bergoyne on June 1st. Happy birthday, Marie. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. and Ian Ramsey on June 1st. Happy birthday, Ian.

Happy birthday, Ian. We also have PJ Pick. June 5th is your birthday. Happy birthday, PJ. June 5th. Happy birthday. We have James Amy on June 7th. Happy birthday, James.

Happy birthday, and we have Jesse Bailey, June 7th as well. Happy birthday. Jesse. Happy birthday to Gabriel Dominic Gyrgyz on June 8th. Happy birthday, Gabriel. Happy birthday. That's a lot of birthdays.

I think that's a record for us. We've never had that many. Okay. Oh. Blow out your candles. Blow out your canvas, Lord. Exactly. All right.

Let's start off with our synopsis of this episode, way of the, warrior, to be honestly, I kept wanting to say, Way of the Peaceful Warrior, which was that Dan Millman book that came out that everyone was reading back in the 80s. But it's not. It's Way of the Warrior. So, Robbie, let's hear that limerick for Way of the Warrior, please. So, Michael, we do a little poetry synopsis because we're, you know, we're deep artists here. So here is my poem. My poetry synopsis for Way of the Warrior, the Klingons show up with war motives all along. Worf will help,

but it's going to be his Starfleet swan song. The peace treaties and tatters, but they're alive, and that's what matters. Worf and Cisco agree Starfleets where they belong. Well done, so.

Nice. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And you reduced Michael Dorn to tears. I know. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful.

all right and now and now michael prepare yourself here is my poetry synopsis in the form of haiku and because this is a two-parter in such a great episode i have two oh my gosh for this one my first haiku cisco brings in wharf must manage clingon task force station can fight now Hiku number two. Wharf requisition. Stop Klingon Paranoia. Nine armed to the teeth. Wow.

Wow. Very nice. Very abstract and poetic. I appreciate it. I have a Klingon. Well, it's a, what do you, like old mother, what do you call those? Like a nursery rhyme? Like a nursery rhyme?

Babel, fairy tale. Nursery. Sure. Mary had a little lamb. Its fleece was white as snow. And everywhere that Mary went, she had lamb chops to go. Thank you, War. I love that you did it in Wharf.

Yes. Arden, do you have the etymology? I have an amelogy, but I'm asking Terry if she has anything. Terry, do you have a poem? No, I didn't. I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was such a long showy. either and the other things were let's pass it on to arm it's been a crazy time i have i have a

etymology which is as long as this episode is so forgive me oh gosh so uh they're poetic michael i am pedantic um which you already knew so so way the word way way of the warrior uh is from the indo germanic weg swedish v a g danish v e dainish v ea Latin Vahir V-E-H-E-R-E Now are dozens of definitions in the OED

about the definition of way it is a main road connecting different parts of a country as in the King's Way it is also a road considered with reference to the condition of its surface or the difficulties

or the dangers of transit as in in winter when the ways were bad and the nights long that i think that definition applies to this episode three uh it is applied to a path and a wood or through fields as in the snow has covered all the ways in the forest and then the fourth one which i think is my favorite a line or course of travel or progression by which a place may be reached or along which a person or thing may pass as in wordsworth's line uh there be more ways through the wood than one so that's way now down to warrior warrior is from the old french the word warrior is from the

old french i cannot pronounce this we need andy robinson um w e i e i r e r e o r one who makes war or a persecutor one whose occupation is warfare hello mr wharf a fighting man in the e logistic sense, a valiant or an experienced man of war, for whom the designation soldier would be inappropriate. Again, we're talking about warfare. As in the happy warrior, who is he that every man in arms should wish to be? And that's from Wordsworth. Those are my etymological references to the words way and warrior in the title, The Way of the Warrior. I find it interesting that I'm sorry. I You want me to repeat that all of it? Sure, absolutely. I wasn't listening.

Take seven. I actually find it interesting, though, that warrior and soldier are distinctly different. Yes, yeah. That a warrior is experienced, has been through this a lot. And the fact that, Michael, they brought you an experienced Star Trek character and actor into DS9. You were kind of a warrior of Star Trek at that point. You were experienced, yes. Yeah.

I think that's really interesting. I like that connection, Robbie. It's good. May I add something to? Yes. Jadzia, in ancient Polish history, Jadzia was often bestowed upon female warriors who fought on front lines alongside their male counterparts. Wow. They're lying social norms.

Yes. So I guess I did have something to add. I just forgot. There you go. Or a warrior, too. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Isn't that cool?

So it could have been the way of Jadzia. It could have. Yes. Because a warrior was coming my way. Yeah, exactly. But this was a boys club, so it was probably more about Worf than it was about Jetsia. Yeah, 100%. No, I know it didn't have anything to do with me.

But it was fun to find that out, and I didn't know that right away. And I wonder if they knew that. You know, sometimes I think maybe. I think one of the writers did. Really? It might have been Michael Pillar because he created the character of Dax. Yeah. Right.

This episode was written by Iris Stephen Bear and Robert Hewitt Wolf, directed by our friend James Conway, Jim Conway, guest stars, Penny Johnson as Cassidy Yates, Andrew Robinson is Garrick, Mark Alamo, Golda Cot, J.G. Hertzler as Martok. This is his first appearance. First one. What a great job. Robert O'Reilly is Gal Ron. Love him. Mm-hmm. Obit and Defo as Drex, Christopher Darga as Kaibok or Kibok.

I can't remember how he pronounced that one. And then William Dennis Hunt as Haraga. We also have co-stars, Patty Tallman as weapons officer, and Judy Durand as computer voice. So a little bit about two of those people, Patricia Tallman was Nause stunt double. And then, of course, she went on to be a series regular on Babylon 5. Yeah. And Bill Hunt, as an old friend. to mind of mine, one of the great Shakespearean actors in Los Angeles ever.

So I just passed away now, but a wonderful, wonderful man. Wow. Very cool. Yeah. You have more. Well, I do. I do have more. Tell us, God.

I was going to tell you about Patty Tallman. She was also on Voyager's episode, Robbie, the one where the alien planet of women that are trying to seduce me. She's one of the women with the sticks that are trying to kill me at the end. Oh, really? Yeah. Didn't she die in this episode? Not to spoiler.

but doesn't she get blown up at the console? Whether she dies or not, it's problematic. I don't know for sure, but she certainly gets hurt. I thought she was at helm, though. And nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Let's move on.

Okay. Yes. Not that nobody cares. It's in the middle of the shot. Nobody attends to Patricia at all. If it was her. Well, it was. She's just not woman.

It probably was. It probably was her. Okay. At the very beginning, before the episode begins, do see a, in memory of Greg Duffy Long and Ronald W. Smith, these individuals worked on D-SPACE 9. Greg Duffy Long was the writer's assistant to Robert Hewitt Wolf and I think one other writer, who passed away. And then Ronald W. Smith was an Emmy award-winning hairstylist who passed away within two days of each other. Oh, my God. And he was Avery's hairdresser.

Avery's hairdresser. Oh, he was? He was a wonderful man. Right. Do you remember him? Say the name again? Ron Smith? Ron Smith.

Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, he was always in his lawn chair, waiting for you. A very tall man, heavy set. Yeah. Sweet man. This episode is the first of only three feature-length episodes in the Star Trek universe that are not series pilots or fineries. The other two are Voyager's Dark Frontier and Voyager's flesh and blood.

And you know what? It is a pilot. It is a pilot. It's a re-pilot of your show. It's a pilot. It's not because of the length. It's as it reinvents the show. It's like a reset, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. It's a different show. The titles are different even. Yes, the titles. Did you notice a little person outside of the space station working on it? I only paid attention because our last episode, Gawa was telling me that that was the last time we were going to see the titles like that. And the music changes to the intro, everything. yeah wow that's right wow i didn't know we see the defined uh feature opening sequences we do

all right well let's dive into the to the story so we start off in the in a corridor uh cisco and kira are armed with phaser rifles and uh averi's got his new look he's got the clean shaven head the goatee going on um that he always wanted the gnaz hair is different too she looks gorgeous This is a little more feminine, really good on her. Can you guys corroborate this for me? I had heard from the Voyager set that Avery just showed up with it shaved. He didn't even tell them he was doing it. He was like, came into work and said, hello.

I don't. It's possible. But I know that there was concerned that they didn't want to have two bald captains. From the beginning. Oh, my God. But Avery wanted his head shaved from the beginning. Oh, my goodness. Why are they all so concerned he was going to look like the character.

that he played. Yes. That's right. Okay. Got it. Anyway, good for him. He looks great. Now it was like, oh, there's avery.

Didn't you have extensions in your hair as well, Terry, in this episode? I had a three-quarter fall. And Michael, did they change your wharf makeup at all? Which is exactly the same. Exactly the same, pretty much. Oh, he hadn't made the adjustments yet to your makeup? Didn't he try to make it smaller? No, no.

No, they made this adjustment to the process back in, I think, at the end of the second year, on Next Generation. They changed them. And then towards the end, I asked him to change the hairstyle towards the end of the show. Oh. Last two or three years, I think. Okay. And so this hairstyle in this episode is the same as how you finished on TNG.

Yeah. Michael, I had actually heard that you. You had gotten it down to where they could just glue you at three separate points on the headpiece, like the most minimal amount of glue that you could go through. Is that correct or incorrect? Well, it was kind of incorrect. What had happened was that they were gluing. And Armand, you knows this, you know, is that they were gluing.

I don't know if they did with you, but they were gluing the stuff directly to my face. Sure. and and I was it my my skin wasn't happy about that at all and I actually went in second season and I went up to the producers halfway through my makeup and I said guys I can't do this because they were they put that adhesive medical glue medical glue medical adhesive on my nose just wet and it was it was burning it anyway so we had so what they did was I was I I had a headband, started with a headband, and they would glue onto the headband. Oh, wow. Oh, clever. So cool. Really sort of, and they glue onto the headband.

And the nose, they had to dry the adhesive. And it made it a little more, it made it a little tougher for them because it had to really pay more attention to it during the day. But otherwise, that's what happened. So I got over there. And the other thing that happened was in my negotiation, I said, look, you know, guys, you know, on Next Generation, they just say, oh, we need Wharf. And so they bring me in at, you know, seven in the morning.

And I'd be in makeup all day, do one little scene, and then I'd leave towards the end of the day. And I said, you know, if you guys could just be a little more conscious of the fact that, you know, if you need me for one scene, you know, then maybe. schedule it so that the scenes are together so i'm not just sitting there in full makeup yeah you know what i used to do when that happened to me i used to get another quark head i'd go over to the second ad and i'd put it on his head and said you wear this until i'm called good for you and it wasn't glued on just the head itself the you know you can't hear you can't hear you wear this for because you know i would sit for hours waiting for them to call me and i'd say you

You wear this until I'm called. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so that's how that, you know, the makeup is always a pain in the ass. I never enjoyed it, ever. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Robbie.

Well, so they're sweeping the, basically in this sequence, they're sweeping the rooms, looking for, we don't know that this is an exercise yet, but they're looking for a founder. They end up in a guest bedroom and a chair morphs into some goo and then into a bird and flies down the hall. and then we chase it out to the promenade. There's security everywhere.

I noticed Bashir's rifle. I'm not sure if I had seen that before. Because at first I thought, oh, he's just holding a phaser tightly to his body. But it looked like a phaser glued onto a rifle end or something. Didn't it? I didn't. I don't know if I'd ever.

It looked awkward to me. Yeah. And I'm, you know, I'm wondering why the medical officer is involved in these searches and these drills, yeah. I was thinking that too, and then I thought, okay, we're all soldiers, but I literally was thinking that too. Like, why is our, I mean, there are jobs that just seem like kind of crazy like the doctor being there when we're on a way mission that or any mission where

it really isn't going to, it's not like, oh my gosh, just forget it. I can't put my thoughts together. It's not that important. I think he's there because in case someone gets injured, you got to have to have a medic. Yes, but it was like the episode where we all went off in The Defiant. Was it the last episode we just reviewed? And he's at a console? And there's nobody in ops running the station.

And we've all, it's like, why didn't they leave Kira there or me there or somebody to be in charge of the station? Terry, I was running the station. This is why it scares me. This is what scares me. Well, finally, Odo tags Bashir in the promenade and says, you're dead. And we realize it's a training mission and it took him three and a half hours to find Odo. So they've got to go faster than that. If, you know, if the founders get on the station, Odo says that he could cause a lot of trouble in three and a half hours.

So they'll try again tomorrow. and then we see Kieran's just go take a little walk. And before we get into that, I noticed, because I was reading the script, I had the script with me, and so I had the advantage of watch the show and read at the same time. And I noticed that in the script, it says that the Kiro, right now, when Avery leaves her, he gives her the rifle, and she has it. But in the script, it says she has a rifle and he has a rifle, and she's left with two rifles.

And I noticed in production, it wasn't. It was just one rifle. And I thought somebody, one of the actors probably said, why am I being stuck with two rifles? And so they just changed it on the spot. I'm quite sure that's what happened. Wow. Oh, okay.

Well, there's also, this is a moment, also, Terry, to your point, where, isn't this where, oh, this is where Cassidy Yates comes up? Later on, Kira's going to stay on the station, to your point. Kira's going to stay there, which is the smart thing to do. Thank goodness, yes. But in this scene, it's all about Cassidy Yates. And she looks good. Yeah, so we're in Cisco's quarters, and she does look great.

She's in a very monochrome look, that same blue all the way down, her leggings, her shoes, everything. flawless face. She's not wearing freighter captain wear like she normally does. Thank you, Bob Blackman. Yes, thank you, Bob Blackman. It's date night. Cisco's gone all out. He's made this huge spread of food.

He talks about, you know, the surest way to a woman's heart is through her stomach. And there's a nice little ripar tape. And they've also, they've also given gifts to each other, which is very sweet. There's Tholeon Silk that Cisco gives to Cassidy. Cassidy gives a baseball cap with the Pike City team that her brother plays on. And he's very excited to see that. And they talk about how far away that is. Maybe he'll go to a game.

But everything's interrupted by dad. The whole romance, Dax calls in and hails in saying, You need to come to the bridge. Then you would have said later. Then you would have said later. Yeah. She would have said like, ah, I'll call them in about five minutes. How's that?

Exactly. Yeah, Cisco has to go. He has to get up to, he has to get up to ops and figure out what's going on. And interesting the way Jim Conway moved the camera close-ups, real extreme close-ups here. Yeah. And there's a lot of that in this episode. episode a lot of extreme a lot more than usual yes way more than usual yeah up in ops

deck says the new the new klingon flagship ship is here so they must have some new high-tech flagship kind of like the defiant which i thought was interesting that they're both starfleet and the klingons are kind of developing newer newer you know attack vessels but martok is there so we get to meet j g for the first time and martok says his men need a little shore leave, Cisco agrees, and suddenly dozens of falling on ships decloak out in space. Oh my goodness. Wasn't that amazing? It was amazing. And then Cisco and I look at each other like, oh boy. Right. And that look, Terry, was a very nice choice. That was a really excellent reaction shot you had there, Terry. Thank you. Yeah. I will keep that. I'm just going to. I noticed that

that reaction shot too because a lot of times i'll be honest we're looking at a screen or at a yeah nothing's there tape on a you know they used to put like an x on a on a flag or something we had all the colors didn't well you weren't in ops but you remember this don't you michael in ops when we had the screen they had every single color of the tape like it was a star oh really on this one flag on this one flag yeah it was great sometimes sometimes i remember honestly you'd look at that mark and you wouldn't really process like you wouldn't react to what you should be seeing because you didn't because you didn't really react i i didn't really i'm just saying don't put us all in i would often look up there and and give a generic sort of

hmm but this felt more than a generic it felt very own point to to armin's point it felt very on story so i liked it i thought it was great i wonder if jim probably talked through that too sometimes it makes a difference whether the director talks you through it or judy brown would just read what was happening yeah exactly when we first see all those klingon ships and the flagship there was an illustrator by the name of john eves who was hired between the hiatus between three and four who was to do he was to design several new klingon ships which were intended to be depicted in this episode but because of budgetary concerns none of them were Oh, it's very sad.

That's a shame. Yes. And did all that design work and that didn't even get out there. Gone. Well, it was very impressive for them to be revealed. Yeah. And we see Martuk and I was surprised. I always thought Martuk was missing one eye.

I was flabbergasted. It hasn't gotten there yet. Yeah, I didn't remember that. I didn't remember that. Oh. Okay. That's a spoiler. It's a spoiler.

It's a spoiler. Yeah, we don't know about any of this, Michael, Garrett and I. We don't know any of it. So please try not to spoil it. Yeah. All right. We go to we go to Quarks and I wrote down his spring break for Klingons in Quarks. There's Klingons everywhere. But not not roisterous, not not boisterous. Not boisterous. That's true. No. They were just there. And the script says they're checking everything out. And it's it's a different sort of aura for Klingons together in a bar. Yeah, it wasn't boisterous.

It was very paranoid, I guess, maybe. Or they were on a reconnaissance. Dude. Yeah. Colum did a very cool P trick on his hand. Oh, yeah, the little popping up the thing. Yeah, a little bar trick. Yeah.

Bersher was very impressed with that. Quark's nervous, though, because it's too quiet. Quiet, much quieter than usual when the Klingons are here. And, and O'Brien says he'll go ask him. He even gets up. And Quarks like, no, no, no, no, don't ask him. don't ask him they'll know i'm onto him so um kind of setting up that the clangons have something some secret reason for right and i i thought it was good writing to allow my character to be the

the canary and the coal mine yeah to say that i see that the quarks sees that something is wrong here was the others don't seem to have any intuition whatsoever about it and you don't you didn't have you had the experience of having that come up for you your character before at this moment? No, really. Usually I'm the last one to know. Yeah. So here was an opportunity for Quark to have some intuition about

how dangerous this might be and that usually didn't happen to my character. Yeah, which made it even more of a little heads up. Like, hmm, hmm, pay attention. But of course, nobody listens. Nobody listens to someone. I wasn't there. If I were there, I would have listened. Yes, you would have, Terry. That's absolutely true. You would have.

Actually, Jack would have. Yeah, Dax, Dax respected Quark. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or at least she likes, you know, winning all the, all the games in his bars. No, I always felt that Dax, Dax paid attention to Quark. She might not have, she might not have liked everything about him. But she's had several speeches where she says, you know, there's some gravitas there.

Yeah. And she knows frangie culture and frangie games and fringi everything. She's a fringophile. She's had eight different lifetimes. She's wise. She's very honest. Can I say that, a pharyngephile, like a francofile, a phrengophon? I don't know.

Yes. It's just made that up, or is it used? Okay, I'll put that in the OED for the next time I have to look up that word there. Etymology. All right, so we're in the wardroom, and Martok is there with Cisco and Kira. But before he can speak, he needs proof that they're not changeling. So he pulls out his knife and cuts his hand and shows that his blood doesn't change into a liquid changeling. And the same thing with Cisco.

with Kira. And then he lets the cat out of the bag. Well, the partial cat, not the real cat, the fake cat, which is, we're here to fight alongside the Federation as their allies against the Dominion. And Cisco's like, well, thanks, but I don't think we really need your help. There's no Gem Hadar activity in the nearby at all. So thank you, but no thanks. But Martak's like, they're going to come. And when they do, we'll be ready. And when they cut each other's hands, I've fascinated that the color of Martok's blood is different than the color of either Kira's or Sisko's. They were smart enough to think, okay, Klingon blood is different than other kinds of. It was like pink, wasn't it?

No, it was sort of a, for me, it was a pale yellow. It was a very pale yellow. Whoa. Michael has clenons have yellow blood. That's interesting. Is that always been that way, whenever you got injured as a. Klingon? Was it always a yellowish blood or a different color? It wasn't red?

Interestingly enough, it just depends on the show. Yeah. That's what I thought. It seems like it's changed. If you looked at like the Klingons and the original series, the last couple of movies,

it was pink almost or something. It was something it was a different color. I thought it was like peppercorn pink. Yeah, and in Next Generation, I had red blood. Okay. Yes, you do. Yeah, it was, you know, and of course you can't say anything because they look at you.

But yeah, there was a couple of, there was a couple of episodes where they saw blood and it was just red blood. Wow. So, and then, yeah, that's. I think that the last original movie, Undiscovered Country. Yeah. The Klingons had, it was purple or some really odd color, you know. Magenta? I think it may have been magenta.

Wow. Yeah. The blood changes. So I think that, and I don't know, did they, was it a different color in Deep Space Nine? Yeah. Well, in this instance, it is. whether it continued i don't know but in this instance it was it was definitely a different color than major care and captain says it goes i didn't i didn't catch that robby did you it was a little

slightly different but it was like pink so it was hard to tell on that but arvin said it was yellow it depends on our screens of course you know that could be it too that's true maybe our color's just a little more saturated is it so it's a samsung yellow or is it a sony yellow what are you trying to say there. It was an LG peppercone pink at my house. Okay, good. Thank you. Um, we go into a steam bath next. Oh my gosh. In a steam bath, Dex comes in with two escorts. I'm going to say boy toys is what I'm going to say. True boy toys. My goodness. Dex just got a massage. Kira thinks this is all so silly. It just all feels fake because it's a holodeck. She's not into it. yeah um but it's nice to see this trill spa to see a little trill culture a little a lot

or a lot yeah they've got like what shorts on a little short booty shorts on i didn't even remember the outfits in a not i don't remember wearing this this shows you how overtired you are through most of this yeah we had very sexy outfits on the two of us yes you did yeah and in the script it says that the boy toys wear less than the women do. It says that. Yeah. Oh, really? Maybe they were like speedos. Yeah, speedos. I like that Dax at the end prescribed some vigorous exercise starting with a massage. And I wrote down, that's my kind of workout. I love, I was like, I'm team Dax on this. I'll go get a massage anytime. Right. Sounds like a great workout. We have a montage of Klingons walking on the promenade looking for something so a little more of quarks you know analysis that they're

suspicious they were like the sketchy ones though right right away they looked like oh oh these are not like the others yeah yeah and it's interesting interesting writing we have this scene within the spa where the ladies are enjoying themselves and are relaxing and all the while the klingons are infiltrating the station. It's as though they're going to be taken by surprise. And I thought that was very good writing to sort of, I mean, we see these programs through our series regulars, and our series regulars seem to be nonchalant about the Klingons being there.

Yeah, they do. Yeah. Well, we do have our treaty at this point. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Should be good. The Klingons and the Federation are allies. We're still in the promenade a little bit later in time.

Now we see a Klingon by the name of Drex. This is, we later find out this is Martak's son. He's harassing mourn, which actually hurt my feelings to see this. I was like, what are you doing to mourn? And he starts by saying so far away from the Hyundai nebula. I was like, the Hyundai nebula. There's a Korean nebula, but it wasn't. The Hyundai's Hyundai Nebula.

He got the hatchback. He got the hatchback. Odo shows up. He's like, you know, what's going on? And Drex speaks to him in Klingon. clearly some type of profanity in Klingon. And Garrick says, actually, I'm not sure Constable Odo has a mother. So now we know Garrick speaks Klingon.

Who knew? So now we do. There's a little interchange there where Drek says he doesn't take orders from shapeshifters. And he says, as long as you wear that uniform, we're allies, you take it off. You're in trouble. So nice scene. A little drama going on. Two things.

one Morn says nothing I noticed that too and really he should have said something he should have seen Was that the scene that they were going to give him a line Do you remember how one Didn't you tell me this too?

There's no line in the script There's no line ever he never has a line Yes he had something He did one Oh he did? One time no I don't think it ever made it into production Oh No

It was problematic to get Mark a lovely man uh to say a line he was terrified really couldn't do it um so which even makes it more kind of heart wrenching watching him be bullied yes yes and two second thing they're talking in cling on and i i think this is the scene where you terry as dax translate and i go wait a second doesn't everybody have universal translators don't we all know understand what everybody saying you're right isn't that what the com badge does for you translate good catch no you know you know the thing is is I don't know it I don't

know if it's intentional or just ignorance of the lore that we've written but it always seems to be that that they do it for a reason you know they They have the writers do it for a reason, you know, and it doesn't always track. Yeah. And you're so right, Armin, that you kind of go, because I know you guys got, at first you tolerate me, then you got really pissed at me with Racta Gino. Did you say it wrong? No, it wasn't that.

It was just like, oh, they've been trying to do. is it decaf coffee or something, you know, that, you know, they've been trying for, they had this line. I don't think Quark didn't say it. It was like, oh, they've been trying to get, you know, you know, the something rackaged, you know, to taste like that for, for years. And I'm going, really? You have replicators and you can't, you know.

And they finally went, Michael, just shut up and say the line. Oh, my. Well. That's funny. But how would the com badge make you hear it in your head? I don't know how car is worse. We don't know the tech behind it. Well, you know what?

It's probably more fun to watch that everybody doesn't know. Yeah. Of course it is. It just violates the storyline that we've had over the course of time. Right. The com badge on Next Generation, you're supposed to hear it through the com badge. Yeah. The correct.

Whatever you're like if you were at the United Nations. Yeah. If you spoke French, you'd hear it in English for your com badge. It would just pop out that way, right? Or if you spoke, if you spoke to somebody else, it would, it would translate in that person's language. Language, yes. But the fallacy in that, Quark, didn't wear a comb badge. Neither did Garrick. So how did we communicate with other people?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You'll learn to speak that language. I think they I actually thought that probably went never mind

just just keep going exactly yeah I'm quite sure but but and there's an element later on in this show that I really

were they really to me they overstepped stuff they had set up for decades but go ahead oh really really but I'll talk about that

when it crops up perfect we're in Garrick shop now this is a little bit later in time and he's alone but he is now

surrounded by clangons and they are there it's Drex obviously is the is the gang leader here and they're there to settle the score because they felt a little bit slighted earlier so they begin a very very horrible beat down of Garrick yes they do they are toxicly masculine yes it was rude and they should be in big trouble that was terrible but we go we go into the infirmary Bashir's tending to Garrick and Garrick is I like how he says Well, first of all, he's got seven transverse ribs broken, which I didn't even know Cardassians had transverse ribs. Does that mean they go vertically?

Transverse or do they cross? No doctors in the room. The closest we have is Garrett, who went to medical school. They're crisscross, actually. The crisscross pattern is what it is. I see. Okay. But I did like that, you know, Bashir's worried about Garrett getting beat up.

And Garrick's like, oh, no, I had, I got off several cutting. remarks. So they'll have to carry that with the rest of their lives. I'll heal right up. I thought that was very clever. Very funny. We go in the captain's office next. Kira's very concerned about the Klingon ships, you know, looking aggressive, acting oddly.

And suddenly there's a distress call from Cassidy Yates. She is under attack, but it cuts out before we know who or what is going on. And I like this cool shot as Cisco comes out of the office. He's got to go save Cassidy. Because this cool shot started like in a window and sort of pulled out through from the office into ops. I'd never seen that shot done before. I thought Jim Conway did a great job. He did.

There were big windows. Yeah, he did. There were big windows on either side of the commander's door, which of course in Star Trek did not have glass. But I'm sure it was, you know, we're supposed to think there's glass. Right. But that's how he came out and around. Yeah. It was cool.

Yeah. It was really cool. And then handed right off to Dax with her line. And then Cisco came down the stairs. He's going to save Cassidy Yates. Get a fix on her position. Meet me at the Defiant. So action is beginning.

I like it when the camera moves in a way that helps tell the story too. It's frustrating when you watch it. And it's still and there's action. and so it's nice when it pulls you with it. Yeah. It had the energy of Cisco's, you know, getting concerned and taking action. It was great. All right.

We're on the Defiant Bridge now, and they have found Cassidy Yates and her freighter. In fact, it's being tractor-beamed by a Klingon ship. So they're trying to get through to Cassidy, but the communications are jammed by the Klingons. Cisco hails the Klingon vessel Commander Kibok gets on and basically says, what do you want? Because Cisco says, I want to know why you're doing. What are you doing? Why are you stopping this ship?

Kuybock's like, well, we have an order. We have to search every single vessel. We have to take every crew member to make sure they are not shapeshifters and have genetic testing done. And Cisco says, whose authority is this? Gowron, Klingon High Council. And then he turns off the

view screen. They keep doing what they're doing. And this is when And Cisco decides it's time to mean business a little bit. So he powers up phasers, raises shields. But that doesn't do anything. So he does shoot, he does fire across their bow to get their attention, which it does. He does, the Klingon captain does get, is he captain or a commander? I can't remember.

Commander. The Klan commander gets back onto the, yeah, view screen and says, you know, what the heck are you doing? We're allies. Cisco plays hardball. He's like, look, okay. lock phasers on the engines of the Klingon vessel prepared a fire and that's when Khybuk sort of backs down and he says you know Gowron's going to hear about this and yeah this is this will be something you'll have to pay for later and Cassidy comes on the ship I just want to comment that I felt like Cisco and Cassidy scenes

were paced very slowly in this episode yeah a little too slowly in my opinion it felt like they were dripping with romance, almost, you know, romance novel, romance, desire. I don't know. Did you feel like it was just unrealistic for the temperature of what was happening on the station? A little out of that. Even though they're in love with each other and this is all new, it still was paced too slow for actually what's going on.

Would this go be that relaxed? That's how I felt. And it felt a little unearned to me. I know we've talked about her a lot, but we've only seen her and him together once. And she had a ton of energy. She was, in that scene, she was like a woman on a mission. She was running the freighter.

She was giving orders. And suddenly she's this slow, demure. I don't know. I found it a little jarring. Super feminine. Yeah. A little bit. I'm going to ask an actor's question to that.

I don't know the answer. So anybody gives me the answer, I'll appreciate. an actor an actress in this case both actors thinks oh i could be a recurring character on this show this is the actor's ego not the characters ego right and says what do i do to make me more interesting to the writers so i'm wondering if some of this uh slowing down and and uh the very stuff that we're talking about here is part of penny very wisely and casually thinking what can i do to make myself more interesting, not only to the writers, but possibly. And again, this is just being a McAvel, and more interesting to Avery Brooks as well. Yeah. Well, they did have a solid

connection, I think even from when they first started, and Penny Johnson still talks about the chemistry that was effortless between the two of them, which I think it is. We can all agree. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe you're right, Armin, because there's something coming up that Michael Dorn and I were very purposeful about. Really? When our characters meet. You'll remember. Mm-hmm.

Okay. I think you'll remember. You know, Armand, and you've been around, I mean, we've all been around enough to know that. That's twice now, Michael. Go ahead. That's the bar. Are you in three? Is this three checks?

No, no, no. This is the second time he's referred to how long. How long I have been around. Go ahead. that every guest actor that came on our show just about every guest actor said oh yeah i'm really happy to be here and yeah they they said it may be recurring yeah yeah just about everyone oh wow and it's always in the back of your head when you do a show it's always in the back of your head well they oh sure this is what they told the actor oh the guest actors were told this you have

the guest act oh my gosh they also told the series regulars yes you might i'm only kidding you can be replaced you can be replaced yeah so in the breakdown services it would always say d-space nine guest actor comma possibly recurring possibly recurring that was what was written on the back of their chairs guest actor possibly recurring on the back of their director chair yeah yeah they all sat the same chair. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's true. That's true. She was, Penny did, did our show. Did she? She played Paul Servino's wife. Oh. Oh, really? Remember when Paul was on the show? Yeah. She was Paul's wife. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's great. Pretty wild. Yeah, I love Penny. Oh, she's wonderful. Isn't she? She's so,

She's a spitfire. She's a ball of energy, a lady and a warrior. Yeah. Yes, she is. So we go to the captain's office next. The Klingons have pulled back outside of Bajoran territory so they can keep searching vessels. Since Cisco has gone out and said, no searching vessels, it's against Bajoran law. You can't do that.

Kira brings that up. So now we're back in the captain's office and we learned that they've pulled back. Cisco has kind of won this round. and Cisco says, you know, how are we going to deal with this? Because Klingons only listen to other Klingons. And then you see the light bulb. Wait a minute. Get me Starfleet command.

We cut to a corridor with some boots stepping out of an airlock. We pan up. And there he is. Wharf. He's the man. But Robbie, just to throw in there, you did forget one thing that happened. Martak shows up and hands the dagger. to go oh yeah that's sort of like that's what made him go we had a call starfully command

because of the execution that happened right yeah yeah that's and dax explains that to him just wanted to get my little i just wanted to get to wharf coming in as quick as possible i know it's exciting it's exciting do you remember the shot of wharf coming in conway really i'm telling you it's a pilot episode yeah it's it's we start at michael's feet yeah and we pan all the way Oh, my God. It's Wharf. It's Commander, Lieutenant Commander Wharf. Were those the boots from T&G Days or new boots? Aren't you just Commander Wharf at this point? Lieutenant Commander Wharf. Right?

I think he's Lieutenant Commander Wharf. Yeah. Oh, I thought he was just Commander Wharf. Oh, it does say, Wurf, Lieutenant Commander Wharf. Sorry, I was trying to upgrade you. Yeah. I was moving you to first class. Thank you.

I think that there was, I changed uniforms. Yeah. At the end of the end. Yeah. Well, maybe I became lieutenant commander. I'm not really sure. Okay. Well, right here you introduce yourself as lieutenant commander, wharf.

Yeah, you do in this scene. So you become commander then maybe. You get upgraded. Well, here's the thing, though. Cisco calls him commander, it drops the lieutenant. That's why I thought he was just commander. I never I never was a commander ever you should be an admiral

to me Michael you should be no he wants to be a captain come on Captain War we all know about Captain War I want to be told what to do I don't want to okay you don't want to be the boss that's fine that's fine well we that was that was everything was you know the uniform the boots everything was

really new they didn't save anything from oh they saved nothing from TNG wow Okay, nice. Good for you. Yeah. They probably already sold it to, uh, auctioned it off. Well, they did. They auctioned the suits off, right? Yeah. Oh, yes, they did. Yeah. We learned, though, that Wharf has been studying at a Klingon monastery ever since the destruction of the enterprise. And he's considering, uh,

leaving Starfleet. But Warf says he hasn't decided yet. And until then, he's going to do his duty. And Cisco says, I need some answers. Worf says, I'll get them. I'll get you some answers. I'll talk to these Klingons. Cisco does mention in this scene, he says he thought about leaving Starfleet once and advises Worf, don't make any quick decisions. Take your time with this.

We see a bit of a, they both have had the same experience and with Starfleet. And, yeah. I like that. That's a nice touch. It is nice. To have your characters have that in common. Do you remember, Michael, when you came on DS9? Do you remember the first day what scenes you shot by any chance?

Probably not. I might be able to tell you that. Oh. I'm sorry. What? Armin said he might be able to tell you that with his actual script and call sheets that he has. He might have a one-liner. With his age and maturity and wisdom, he's going to be able to tell you this.

With one for you. If I'm not mistaken, I think it was either the opening scene where I come in, come in, or it was the bar scene when I meet Bashir and Terry and Nana. Yeah. I thought it was the bar scene, but because we had a conversation, you and I about how much fun would it be if we flirted with each other so that they would write more scenes for us.

you know, because they want to write scenes for characters that have chemistry. Do you not remember this? Forgive me for interrupting, but you're all wrong. What was the first scene? The first scene is Wharf and Gowron, a day one. Oh. Wow. Warf and Gowron.

Wow. Okay. Okay. It's day one. It's the second scene of day one. Wow. That's Gowron's ship. Yeah.

In his ship when he comes in over to the single solo Clingon ship that comes over. And had you worked with Bob O'Reilly or did you know Bob O'Reilly before that? Oh, yeah. It was a whole thing in next generation. Okay. So he's already, yeah, you guys are all that then. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, but Terry, I thought, and this is, once again, it's been a while, that we were just, you know, kind of jazzed to be working with each other. Yeah. And I didn't think that they were going to put us together. Oh, me neither. I think it was just like chemistry. So it's not looking forward to a relationship just like I want to work with you. So if our characters like each other, we're going to get to work more together.

Yes. I picked up the chemistry in this episode. I'm sorry. I did. I picked up that Dax was interested in Wharf and the Wharf, I don't know, maybe I'm just projecting. It's a choice. It's a strong choice, and I think I made it work. Well, you know, the character, Worf wasn't interested in anybody. No, he was in a dark place. But I'm Dax. Robbie. This is where it works. Harry and Tom should have flirted with each other more. They would have had more screen time, too. We could have. We could have. Yes. That's what I did with Renee. That's what I did with Renee.

Yeah, it works. Well, in this scene, Michael, there's, I think there's a good chemistry with you and Avery in this one, this two-person scene. Yeah. How did you feel filming this with Avery in terms of your chemistry and whatnot? Like I said, I had met Avery before. Okay. And got along really well with him. I mean, I really liked him.

Yeah. And so when we were doing the scene, it was just, you know, I didn't think. really too much about it. Yeah. I think that Avery and I were just doing our thing. And, and I, at that point, I kind of knew where they were going with, with the character of Wharf. So it wasn't really, oh, there's chemistry between us or anything like that.

I didn't think that, you know. It was just, you know, us doing our job. Right. It was a great thing. I like that they connect your characters both having doubts. about Starfleet, that it's not this perfect, noble path that you're both on. But it's a complicated path, and you can connect that way. I thought that was great.

Again, the cultural differences between the two shows, TNG, Starfleet was Nirvana. And in our show, and we're going to get a scene a little later, yes, Starfleet is in charge and is a good thing, but has its foibles as well. It isn't perfect. Some limitations. There was one thing that, let's just say on into the, you know, the years, there's one thing that I did feel was that they wanted Avery to be all-knowing. Because he's the emissary too.

No, not the emissary, not, not, they wanted Avery to feel. he was all-knowing. And wasn't Picard all-knowing as well? In fact, weren't you all-knowing as well? The captains. Easy, Armin, easy. No, but the captains. Yeah, they have to have a...

Thank you for rating me in. Well, see, the difference between, well, you know, on Next Generation, Warf was just a lieutenant, you know? So he's learning. So he's going to, you know... make mistakes. But I always felt that there was, there was this underlying, overarching underlying a theme of, there was an episode where he said that again.

Well, you know, if it was me, I do the same thing. Like, that's going to make me feel better, you know. It was the same with you, Terry, where I let this guy die and, you know, to save Terry. Mm-hmm. And he goes, yeah, and he goes, well, you know, you're, you know, you're, you know, you've, you made the wrong decision, you know, and, and I, I wanted to go, yeah, I know that. What do you, you know, you know, and you'll never be, you know, a captain. They'll never give you a captain. I go, and I wanted to, to have the character, Worf, go, you know, you don't have to yell at me. I know

what I did, you know. I'm an adult. And then he says, and just to let you know, I would have done the same thing. And I did do this where I kind of went, yeah, thanks. But I thought that it was definitely in this episode, they made it very clear that Cisco is the, what's the word for it? He's not a godfather. Is it like he's mentoring you? He's the boss.

He's the... Yeah. He's the... The wise teacher? The wise. Well, he's the wisest. Right. Of all of us.

Okay. And I... And when we get to the end of the... of this episode, I'll tell you why. Anyway, go ahead. Okay. Okay. So we're in Corks now.

And, uh, warf walks up to the boss. Quark says, let me guess, Klingon blood wine, Worf goes, no, prune juice, chilled. Is that dwarf's go-to drink, Michael, in TNG as well? It is. Prune juice. Already established. Robbie and I did not know that, but we now know it.

I did not know that. Yeah. O'Brien calls Wharf over. He's like, come on over here. And O'Brien's over there with Bashir. Warf walks over, and they try to get Worf to play darts, which he's completely unfamiliar with. And when they tried to explain it to him,

it's just over his head till five. Finally, O'Brien's like, target, you know, throw, hit board, hit board with dart, kind of a, you know, description. And when Wharf throws the dart, he throws it with such velocity. I'm pretty sure when they, when they show the insert of that, that dart sticking into the board, it looks like part of the dart has melted in or it's been thrown so hard. It's flattened it. Yeah, that that little, do you know what I'm saying? Like the bullet shape thing is halfway into the. He's halfway into the...

I wish there would have been a little smoke. Just a little smoke. A little vapor coming out from it? That would have been beautiful. I felt like it was missing. Yes. Michael, are you a left... Are you left-handed?

Yes. Oh, because you threw with your left hand, and I was like, oh, I didn't know if that was for camera. Oh, you're a lefty. He's a lefty. Good to know. Good to know. Kira and Dax come down as well. They're in Renaissance outfits.

Oh, my God. Gwenevere, I think. Kira was Guinevier. Yes. she punched Lance a lot Lance a lot but let's just talk about

the lighting on both of you oh my gosh just beautiful gorgeous portrait lighting on the other ladies in this scene it was wonderful it was stunning

and I loved our outfits it's so funny to think they're in that tiny what 30 second scene all of that for 30 seconds and then you never

see those outfits again what I think they did that if I were a writer in the writing room this is what I would have thought. This, we're seeing this show to some extent through the eyes of Wharf.

Worf is the person who's experiencing this station for the first time. Yeah. Right. So this is his first meeting with Kira, maybe not Dax, but with Kira. How does his, what is the first impression of her dressed as a Renaissance character or as a medieval character? And I thought, that's very clever. So that it isn't the cure that the fans know. It isn't the cure that the rest of the cast knows.

It isn't the cure that the writers knows. It's this one first wrong moment. And he sees her as this. So that's, I thought that was really good writing, really good writing. Because it really flustered her. Yeah. You know what you took the hat off. It was just like, oh, no, this is so undignified.

This is not who I am. Yeah. But this is his first impression of her. Yeah, this is his first impression of the two. But it doesn't ruffle me, obviously. No, I didn't. Of course it ruffles her. But one of the best lines of this entire episode

and the way it was delivered by Michael Dorn is nice hat. The nice hat line was like, yeah. Genius. Oh, so good. Very funny. Worf does see, what's his name, Drex? Over there, kind of causing a little ruckus. He goes over, tells him.

introduces himself and then punches him back hands him back hands him they get into a little scuffle um wharf flips him onto the floor dax is very impressed kira is very impressed are they both reacting to that yeah i didn't say they're both reacting says he's good oh yes and o'brien says what did i tell you uh mm-hmm okay but there's also reaction shot from nana as well so they're both Oh, yeah. Well, we're all together. Yeah.

All right. Great. Yeah. This is the scene where I thought that they must have, they must have told you, Terry, that this was going to be a love interest. Because that's where I was picking. That's so funny. Not at all. I totally saw it.

I just chose my choice. Yes, it was my personal choice to in between the lines flirt with him. It worked. Because she loves Klingons and here he comes and he's in charge. Yeah. Look at him. Good job. There actually was the time when we knew was there was a beginning of an episode

where my brother comes back on the ship, Kern, and got Tony, Tony Todd. I know. And she and I are on this exercise program, Clay on an exercise program. and if you want to see shameless flirting that episode it's coming okay but also that reaction shot of oh he's good and all of that

in a sense is the open door to allow Worf to become part of the ensemble it is that we oh he's good here's somebody who's an equal appear to who we are at least to Dax and Kira. And I thought, again, really good writing and, of course, good acting, but really good writing to put that in, to welcome just by that acknowledgement to say he's a peer.

Yeah, and for O'Brien to confirm that by, see, I told you. Right. Because he, yeah. Although I would ask Michael this, I would imagine that you and Colm didn't have that many scenes together on TNG. No, we didn't. But we had a few, not a lot, not a lot. But we always, he always was really, really wonderful to work with. He's a consummate actor.

Yeah, you know. Nice man. Yeah. And for the whole episode, the whole series on Deep Space, there was a familiarity between column and I, which translated to our. characters that wasn't that wasn't there with all the other actors not better or worse but just it was a different type of because you had a history you had a history yeah and column like I said

he's one of those actors that that you love playing with because all of that is there and it's and it's sort of easy and you know you kind of fall into um you know whatever it is you want to do yeah so yeah But I never thought about that, Armand, that that was a welcoming. I saw that as that. I saw, oh, we're welcoming. Again, I see this as a pilot, and I see this episode being seen through your eyes and the audience watching you and everybody else, of course, but that you are the, this is something Rob and I spoke about on my kitchen table the other day and how you approach an episode.

And that's where this idea of it being a pilot and seeing it through your eyes came to my mind. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And you sound like you're speaking like the writer-director that you are, too. Like you've got that hat on. It could be. To have that vision, that point of view about it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. So next up, we are in the quarters, the guest quarters that have been assigned to Wharf. He's unpacking a few items. The first thing that comes out is a mechleth. And I want to ask you, Michael, is this. correct online in the interwebs that says that you requested this item to be part of your

you know armament i guess the shorter not you know mechleth is a short version of a batleth basically right so was that correct say that was your own personal request to have that yes or is that okay uh and yeah the um wharf had this batleth for the big thing the big knife yes many years right and um and since they were going to a new thing and i talked to rick about it i said hey look you know what do you think about this and he says yeah sounds great so we got uh dan curry to to to make one although yeah yeah it wasn't a shorter virgin yeah smaller one yeah that's what he pulls out of the bag you see the macs amazing he sure is you also pull out a picture of uh wharf and his son Alexander. The doorbell rings. It's Martok. He's here for his son's dagger. He says, I'm going to

take it by force. And Worf says, here, just take it. I'm just here to talk to you. Basically, really wonderful writing, some nice writing here about honor and disrespect and back and forth. Martuk will not give up the reason what his mission is, but he does tell Warf that his mission will determine the fate of the Klingon Empire and interfere and you risk destroying us all. J.G. does an extraordinarily good job in this episode. He does. J.G. is just terrific. Oh, God.

He's just. It's funny because Robbie and I have seen J.G. I don't know how many conventions we've been at where J.G.'s crossed our paths. We've said, hello. But we didn't know his work until watching this episode. And we're like, holy moly, a tour to force. Yeah, he only gets better. He only gets better. It really is.

It's fun to see him with two eyes, too. It is. So strange. made seem with two eyes. We only, but Robbie and I only know two I-M-R-Talk, though. We don't know one-I-M-R-Talk. Yeah.

Oh, my. That episode where they, once again, that was an incredible episode where you really see him when he comes back, when he kind of reappears. And, I mean, I just loved working with him. And I tease him incessantly about his,

you know, There's one scene where he says, yes, we've, not Romulan, but the Vulcan say, yeah, you know, you've, you've lost about 10 ships in this war. And G.G. goes, I don't know how much. I mean, he has his high voice. And I just, it tipped me to death. And I just give him such a shit about it. But yeah, he's fearless. He and Rob O'Reilly were just one of my absolute favorites. in terms of the Klingons. Yeah. They're great. They are.

We go into a cave next. We see Wharf is exercising by fighting a skull-headed monster. And I thought, the first thing I thought of, Michael, when you were fighting this holographic, skull-headed monster, I did a movie with Michael Westmore in the 80s called Masters of the Universe where Franklin Jella was Skeletor. And there was a fight at the end of Masters of the Universe with He-Man and Skeletor, Franklin Jolla, and Dolf Lundgren. And when I saw this makeup, I'm like,

Mike Westmore just recycled the Skeletor makeup into this scene. It's the same thing. He went into storage and got the original skull. after after a number of years you know how many how many how many makeups yeah yeah you just i thought it was a great choice for being like the computer simulation of the other fighter of a bad guy of a monster he's fighting a monster yeah nondescript monster okay so we know who's underneath that right so underneath that is a dentist yeah it's dennis to begin with but

evidently in one of the takes, Michael punched him in the eye or something like that. So he had to, he had to bow out and Tom Morga took over for him because, no, I didn't put him. No, I didn't. Oh, what happened? What happened is that Dan Curry made this, this mechleth better than he should have. Oh, no. Made it to, there's a little hook near the handle. And if you pull a, like a sword or a staff or anything on that hook, the bigger part, you pull it like this, and the bigger part comes out like that.

And I was trying to tell Dennis, I said, you know, you've got to be careful. Hey, shut up. We knew what we're doing. And he did that. And he had a staff and he pulled it like this. and the bigger part of the medlet came and he held him that mask and it sliced the mask off this mask right here and it blinded him for about 20 minutes oh my gosh you know what I kind of remember that oh because I was obviously there that day but so in effect he heard himself

he heard himself and you warned him and he did not listen to you yeah I said no this thing right here if you do this and and you know they all you know the stunt guys they all yeah shut up you know we know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's the leverage right he just went yes oh god that thing came and and just flipped and it was it wasn't a real one it was rubber oh you're kidding but it still it still did damage it sliced through the the mask and cross his eyes and he was blinded for for about

20 minutes. Wow. So the mask broke then. The mask was broken by the... Wow. We cut the mask. It cut the mask. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Gosh, with plastic. It wasn't even blade. It wasn't a blade. It was a metal. That's incredible. Was it Tom

taller than Dennis? Yes. Of course. Yes. Yeah. That's what when you said, Dennis, I thought, there's no way. What was he wearing? Like, a foot foot list because he was shorter than me and i'm shorter than you but i did punch tom and tom punched me back because he always was you know he and i were always paired up fighting each other and there was one time i punched him and he was i said hey man i'm sorry he says that's okay and then the next time we were doing another scene and he punched me in my nose and

you know almost broke it oh my goodness oh that hurts so bad you know i don't know if you guys know when you get punched you feel it sounds like cartridge yeah because it is well dax comes into this scene dax gives him some advice he's dropping his shoulder we learned that this is dax's hollow sweet program yeah and uh wharf's comment is well this is yeah it's good it's adequate so he's he's not giving her a ton of compliments but he's it's adequate and then they end up sparring warf wins their little sparring match but you can see that warf is frustrated he's got a lot on his mind and he's frustrated that none of the clingons are speaking to him they're not sharing any information and that's when dax suggests maybe there's somebody that owes his family a favor since honor

is such a big thing with klingons maybe he can use honor and some kind of favor so smart move dax smart move dax i think that's why she went in there to begin with because of the whole kurson his relationships with all the different klingons but wharf doesn't know this about dax right right so there's nobody else who can tell wharf this other than her you know well wharf knows about curzon though but not about is that what was you saying but but he doesn't know me or how it integrates with me because he's saying to me that I'm doing this because of curzon it's like no it's mine but okay but the thing is he doesn't know me so it's not like and he's new on our station anyway yeah well smart move because uh wharf goes in to find

Haraga Haraga. Haraga is singing And who's the actor playing this character? Bill Hunt, Will Hunt. Bill Hunt. This is your friend. Yeah.

He was, Armin, he was a joy to work for. Yeah. Very sweet man. And really good. It's like one of those times, Armand, when you're going, where you walk in and you're doing your thing and you go, holy shit, I got to be better.

I better rise to this because he was he was excellent He was a phenomenal actor A lovely lovely man He was a terrific Shakespearean actor And I'd known him I could tell

I could tell I could tell He was great You guys smash heads at the end of this song They did They head butt like football players But without the moment But singing that Klingon drinking song

Robbie and I When we heard that That was like an oldie but goody because Ethan Phillips sings that when he's a Klingon in Voyager, the Asia Tafet, Deja, that whole thing. We heard that a billion times over and over again. So something that we love. Well done.

The week as all of me. Oh. Oh, hilarious. But you know what? You know, we, you know, he just, I think I remember that you said that he was a friend of yours, Norman because he was just, I think I said something to you out. I just thought he was just amazing. He's gone now, but he was a terrific man.

It was amazing, yeah. Well, Worf wants a little information, and because they've sung this song together and clearly bonded with a nice headbut, Haraga decides to give it up, and he says it would be wrong to keep this information from a good warrior like you, and he tells him it's going to be a glorious battle. So, Worf gets the information. Yes. And the next shot we see is Wharf on the upper level.

Odo comes over, says Worf should tell the captain what he found out. Odo gets it. Odo's watches everything. He knows that he was sending all these messages on a daily basis. And then suddenly he talked to Haraga and now he stopped sending messages and he's silent. So he must know something. Soto does share in the scene, he says, I kind of connect with you about choosing between duty and loyalty to your own people, because Odo has that same experience as a shapeshifter, as a changeling, which I thought was a nice, to me, that's a really interesting connection. I'd love to see that explored more.

Maybe it will be explored more in the series, but just that idea brought up in the scene, I thought was really nice to connect these characters. And boy, there were some big close-ups in this scene. really take close-ups yeah real big close-ups which which is problematic for people in makeup because you get that close and you get you get you have to the makeup has to be absolutely correct otherwise it's going to show up i noticed as much as i love karen and she always did a great job on my makeup i noticed in this episode of that she could have done a little better here Mm. Well, big close-ups. And Wharf does listen to Odo there because next scene in ops, we see Wharf coming in on a mission. Miles, he passes Miles. Miles says, you know, Cisco's busy, but, and Worf is just blows right by him. I need to talk to him. Now he goes inside. I like how you wrote, Warf comes in hot. He does. He's coming in on a mission.

He tells Cisco, barges into his office, tells Cisco the Klingons, I think the Dominion has organized the uprising that's happened on Kardassian, that that's the founders that are responsible, and that the Klingons are going to invade the Kardashians. And Cisco wants to go meet Gowron. And he does mention, Wurf, you don't have to go with me. I'll go talk to Gowron. Now that I know this, I'll go talk to Gowron. Wharf insists, nope, I need to go to for my honor, and he has to take responsibility for what he's done. So off they go to find Gowron. And next scene is in the wardroom. Martak does admit this is the Klingon's plan to attack Cardassia. Cisco says, you don't have any proof of any of this

that the changelings are on Cardassia. And Martak, a suspect. Vex wharf here in this scene. You know, he's like, where'd you get this information? Yeah, very suspicious. Yes. Cisco doesn't give you up, though, Michael. He's like, it's not important where I got this information. Everybody knows.

Everybody knows. They get it. Yeah, but Cisco says that this move by the Klingons is going to jeopardize the treaty, the peace treaty that we have. And so Mar-Tock agrees he will consult with Gowron about this. And he does walk past you, Michael, and gives you a real stink eye there. With both eyes.

Hey, yes. If anybody can give you a stink eye, it's Robert O'Reilly. It's Bob O'Reilly. Yeah. Oh, God. Bob has those incredible eyes. Oh. We go into, we go into Ops next.

We do learn that the last thing that Martak said was in-cha when he was leaving. as the fleet left and that means Worf translates, that means it begin. Again, we have the universal translators, there's no need to translate. Yeah.

And where are they headed? Cardassian. Straight to the Cardassian Empire. Yes. So it's going to be a big battle. There's going to be some fighting ahead of us in the ward room. the crew is going over to all their options.

Bayjore has agreed to abide by whatever Starfleet decides to do. And the Klingon are Starfleet's allies right now. Cardassia isn't, and I'm about to have a problem, but go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So they can't warn the Kardashians about what's happening. They're stuck in the middle of this. The Klingon's going to go fight the Kardashians, but they don't want to piss off the Kardashians

because they're trying to repair that relationship. relationship and build that relationship. And so they're Starfleet stuck here. Cisco talks about needing a third option and that we cut over to Garrick shop and we see Garrick selling Morn some clothing. And he even says, in case you change your mind about the earmuffs, keep them on hold for you to mourn, who never speaks. Does Moore even have ears by the way?

Yeah, he has ears, yeah. A little tiny ears. They're tiny. Just doesn't have any vocal cords, but he has ears. He has no vocal cords. He's vocal cordless. And a big chin. Yes, and a big chin.

But while he is talking to Mourne, you do hear Sisko hailing Garek saying, Mr. Garrick, I'd like to see you in the wardroom immediately bring your Taylor's kit, which prompts a very strange reaction from Garek. But they're back in the wardroom, and as Garek walks in, Dax starts talking about all together. We're talking about well over a hundred ships just in the first wave. Garrick's confused. He's like, I hope I'm not interrupting.

So Cisco says, no, no, no, I'd like to be measured for a new suit. So while he's taking the measurements, they go on and talk about exactly what is about to happen, which is the Klingon invasion force heading towards Cardassian space. And that's all that Garrick needs to know. And he says, I'm out of here. But what an ingenious way to give up the information without really giving up the information. Yeah. And within the hour.

Within the hour. Within the hour. Within the hour. Yes. Yes. Yeah, we go in Garrick shop. Garrick is talking to Descartes now. Duccott says this whole thing sounds ridiculous, and he tells Garrick to get Cisco to just stop all of this.

They do bicker in this scene, Garrick and Dukot, a little about Cardassia and the fall of the obsidian order. They insult each other in the scene passive aggressively. I love their conversations. And Garrick says they're going to be here. Yes, in an hour or so get the Kardashians prepared. Back in Ops, we see a nice war, a war room. room table we see the the the war game is being monitored on this big table and there's this great 360 as kira adax in war for looking at this battle the camera just goes around all of them

which i thought was a great choice by um by by jim conway to do that uh yeah and it looks like garrick's warning has helped prepare the cardascians uh Cisco comes in uh says Starfleet has condemned this attack. And in response, the Klingons have ended their treaty and expelled all Federation citizens from Klingon territories. And suddenly a Klingon ship decloaks right off the station. And it's Gowron here to talk to Wharf. So we cut out to the Klingon Bridge. I love this scene, Michael, with you and Bob O'Reilly. Really good. Yeah. Oh, so good. The staging of it, the performance.

performances were all great um basically gowron is thrilled to see wharf which is kind of surprising at first he's not mad at all he says wharf can redeem himself to all of the cling on people if he just fights cardassia with them and gives him an ultimatum there he says you know join join join your people or be stripped of everything uh you and your family and everything and warf says I swore an oath to the Federation. And Gowron does threaten his family here. He says, you know, if you refuse to help us, you and your family will not be accepted anywhere in the Klingon Empire.

So a big, big decision. Your house is stripped of its titles. Yeah. I do like, at the end of that, Gowron says, you will have nothing. And Worf goes, except my honor, which is a nice little, you know, sticking to your guns on that.

you're a hero Michael you're a hero and I like how you delivered it too yeah thank you so yeah because honor was everything no well it had gravitas to it and you know what else I liked in this moment you know um wharf chooses honor and then immediately on the heels of that we go to this shot in quarks of everyone carefree gambling and drinking and yet the camera on this crane sort of pushes up to Wharf, he's got his honor, but he's all alone. He's sitting up on the edge of the balcony. And I just like the contrast with that sort of heroic, noble decision. And the consequences are often heroes are alone. Yeah. Yes. 100%. I thought that was really good. The character is always, even up until, you know, the Picard thing is,

the character is always learning, you know, he goes. He's changing. He's changing. He's not just not one dimensional, but he, he's learning that, you know, you know, nobody's perfect, you know, and no, nothing you can, you know, you may say, oh, well, this is the way it's supposed to be. And then something happens. And he goes, oh, I guess not, that's not the way you're supposed to be. Right. It happens so much that he said, maybe I shouldn't, you know, be so quick to choose one thing or the other. maybe there are you know 45 different solutions to every every issue right there's not just one right answer right and michael what you pointed out is as a truth that a lot of people should learn

when you're introduced to different cultures seeing different points of view you should realize there's not just one answer absolutely and that's what wharf is being introduced to all these different cultures and learning from all of his experiences, as everyone should do. Yeah, and, you know, the whole thing about, oh, you know, you'll lose everything. And he kind of goes, well, yeah, but what has that done for me lately? You know, I mean, it's sort of, you know, yeah, yeah. I mean, I did tell Rick, not so much pillar, he wasn't there at that time. But I did tell Rick and IRS, I said, you know, I like the guy to be just discombobulated.

I felt that. He comes from, you know, the Starfleet and the Enterprise, the best ship in the galaxy, you know, to this space station, you know, where there's all these people that he's fought over the years, you know, that he's been at odds with. And they're all like, you know, wandering around, you know, free. Like, the hell is this? And it's like you said, it's the difference, you know, the dichotomy between Starfleet or the enterprise and all that and this whole other. And so I wanted him to be an outsider. I wanted him to be like always trying to figure out a way to make it work.

And that's why I said, you know, why don't. it. Why don't you have him just live on the defiant so he can be by himself to where he doesn't have to deal with any of this stuff, you know? It's interesting. It's interesting, Michael, when you talk about that, like, I was just picturing someone who has had a career in the military, in the real world, in our world. And they've been, you know, the rules are laid out very clearly. And then suddenly they're discharged. They retire from the military. And they're back in the world. And the rules aren't so clear anymore and the the structure isn't there that was kind of what wharf was experiencing

a lot of ways and some make it some don't yeah and yeah my take my take away from what you were just saying michael in your conversation with ira and rick is that they actually took your suggestions in terms of you had a conversation about the character before they wrote this entire episode which is amazing i i think that that's wonderful that they did that and And was that Rick that reached out to you or Ira that said, look, we want your input? Well, this, what happened is that the, that episode, the pilot episode, was, I didn't really have conversations about, about that then. But at the end of the episode, something happened with Ira that kind of made me figure, I better go and do something about this. because I saw him going in a direction that I didn't think he should be going.

And I felt really strongly about it. And that's what led to all the other discussions. Because the discussion I had about his character and blah, blah, blah, and that didn't happen the first. That didn't happen before this episode. It happened after. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Interesting. The end of the episode. What's interesting, too, for Worf, is when, you know, talked about this before you came on michael but the architecture of how uh the enterprise is designed and the upgrades we did to the defiant or more clean lined and definitely more starfleet feeling so more clean which i would understand where maybe warf would feel more at home there because the space station is that imperial cardassian in our world gothic kind of dark It's like a dark place to live.

And the defiant would feel more at home for your character. Oh, yeah. My guess. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, he said, you know, there was a scene where you came to my quarters and said, hey, what do you think? And he's taking the bed roll off the bunk. So, you know, and it's stark and it's military and it's claustrophobic.

And that's what he loved. That's what he liked. Feel at home. Well, to finish out this scene, Miles comes over and joins him. They talk about their time on the Enterprise together. But Wharf says he's thinking about leaving Starfleet, and he might go to the Nyberite Alliance Cruiser. Maybe they need some experienced officers.

Quark arrives in this scene. Quark's very happy because the noise decibel level is now back up to normal. He's glad the Klingons are gone. Worf gets insulted by this he leaves and Quarks says well fine he just drank prune juice anyway it's a nice little tag at the end

what do I care it was cute yeah very cute there was there was it's very funny because you know I love Armin and Kitty to death and our character just couldn't get along he just didn't like each other

there was one little scene It wasn't in this episode, but it was something about, you know, Cleons coming in. He's like, oh, great. That's all we need is just more cling on, you know. Yeah, yeah. He has no, and he has no fear of telling him war. Very funny. Very funny.

Well, are we going to captain's office? Cisco refuses Worf's resignation. Cisco says, I need you right now. Kira comes in with some news the Klingons broke the Cardassian defenses 52 hours till they reached the home world and Worf lets them know that the Klingons are going to execute all the officials

and occupy Cardassia and that's when Cisco calls Dukot on a monitor and we learn that Dukot is now aligned with the new ruling body in Cardassia and Cisco says he'll help get them to safety just meet me at this rendezvous point

he does say the Klingons might attack them and Worf thinks Cisco might be helping the founders by helping these people and Cisco agrees but he says that's a risk I got to take I need you Warf we've got to do this and the wharf agrees so even with all these unknowns they're going to try to do the right thing it's the wrong thing it is the wrong thing you think it's the wrong thing this is what you're talking about you had something to add yeah what do you close this fatal flaw what is the prime directive do not get involved in other governmental there is no connection with cardassia they do not have an alliance with cardassia they they're they're aware of each other they have an alliance or they did have an alliance with the

clangons there is no reason in the world why cisco should help the cardassians certainly not the cardassian government certainly not galducat right uh There's no reason in the world to risk people, and people will die from this. We're going to see a battle sequence soon. This is totally against the prime directive. And this is court martial territory. And wasn't Cisco literally just promoted to captain from commander to captain? He literally, this is probably his first battle as a captain, maybe.

Right. I mean, there were two things the studio wanted. They wanted him to be a captain. and they wanted a defiant so we got the defiant we got the captain yeah yeah so arman why do you think they did it for the story why did they break the brime directive whenever they can't yeah it gets in the way michael it just gets we need a battle see unless they can use it to say oh this is prime directive we can't get involved with you guys but but they break it on a regular basis A regular business, I know, I know.

But good catch, Armin. Oh, it's very clear to me. The interesting thing is that it would have made it more interesting if he didn't get involved. It would have been more interesting. Yeah. That's what I think. And it would have been, and that's the moral issue. Okay.

There people are going to be killed. But my instructions, my orders, she's a military man. My orders are I cannot get involved. Yeah. But his moral compass makes him go do something. Right. And then he dragged all of you into that. You all get into the deviant and start, forgive me, we're going to talk about this momentarily, start shooting up cling-ups.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. A lot of cling-offs. Well, isn't that usually the motivation for any time someone's breaking a direct order? It's the moral compass of the person, their personal integrity, like you saving my life, my wife, you saving my life. you talked about earlier in a future episode and that's the thing that that when he was saying oh you know you've done this and you were wrong and er you know and he's he's barking at me about that and and all of this is coming into my head you know i wish they had written they'd written a scene where they said you know a captain you've done shit for years you know and maybe far worse And more people have died.

You know, and you were wrong. Really? Anyway, but yeah, but a good cut. I agree, I agree, 100%. They're in the corridor right now, and Cisco is making some last second preparations with Kira saying, we need the station on yellow alert. Let's evacuate some of the civilians down to Bejor.

I'm about to take off. And he then bumps into Cassidy, who bends like, oh, you're back. She's like, yeah, I just got back an hour ago. Jake just told me that you're about to go off on submission. So their timing is horrible because when he gets back. They always have bad timing. Really bad timing.

Yeah. Cassidy's leaving tomorrow. So they have zero time together. But they do have time for a kiss. We've been waiting for some type of kiss forever. I think finally a good Lord. A kiss happens. And it's a romance novel kiss for real.

It is. She walks away, pauses, turns back. runs into him. Oh, no, no, no. This should have been passionate. Like, this may be our last chance to lock lips. You didn't think it was passionate? Die.

Well, it was passionate, but it's, it was, I mean, it was a beautiful kiss, don't get me wrong. It felt a little formal. What? And relaxed. It was just, it was like you're saying a romance novel kiss, not a action movie. We both could die in the drama that we're having at this moment. You want to judge it up a little more. is what you need.

Yes. Okay, okay. Yes, I need it heightened drama because it may never be at this moment again. Correct. Okay. Valid point. Valid point. Thank you.

And Odo should have missed court. But it was just like, yeah. If we go on to the bridge of the defiance, Cisco is now using this cloaking device. And Worf does comment. He's never been on a Starfleet vessel with a cloaking device before. So a reminder how new that is. Bashir does remind Cisco as well that they're not supposed to use it in this situation. The Alpha Quadrant.

In the Alpha Quadra. Yeah. Again, breaking the rules, breaking the Prime Directive again. Yeah. Okay. Willie Nilly, as they say. Willie. Yes.

Willie Nilly. They love Willie and Nilly. We go into ops. Miles is upgrading the station. There's a cool shot down with him. working on a panel in a little tight space he does imply that they're arming the station in some big way

they've never done before so he he says I hope this doesn't blow up this entire station they've never tested these systems so they still don't talk about weapons though right it's just all hinted towards yeah it's hinted yeah they're keeping it a secret yeah back on the defiant we see some battle debris as they approach and it looks bad and we we learn they have to decloak to investigate and look for survivors but wharf says don't do it don't decloak because there could be cling on ships cloaked

all around you yeah and he says likely not could be he knows their strategy yes yeah and i i love wharf at one point he says nothing is more honorable in victory which i thought was very cling on and very true i don't disagree very true so cisco says let's stay cloaked we've got to get to decott we do see a moment in the engine room next which i love this shot this warp core which we saw at the end of season three but this shot of it i thought was beautiful and epic it was a high angle shot of the warp core as cisco is checking on it

back on the bridge uh again jim conway using now longer lenses in this. The focal length is starting to really compress and feel dramatic. I thought it looked like classic action Star Trek moments on the fire dramatic. It was excellent, excellent. Yeah, so he's choosing. I love how Jim chooses lenses in a very intentional way that sort of add to the build of

the drama and the story. I thought that was really well done. But they do see Dukot's ship on Long Rain Censors. Duccott is taking a beating. There's three Klingon ships attacking him, Dukot's Cardassian ship. And Cisco decides to go into the fight, decloak. So off they go. I just want to say in a lot of these battle scenes,

the sequences between the Klingon fleets and everyone else, the effects department use playmates toys, Erdo model kits, and hallmark bird of prey Christmas ornaments in the background. They did not. Yes, yes, in an effort to keep production costs down. When one of the toy ships was required to explode, special effects manager, Gary Monach, filled it with explosives and party glitter. Party glitter.

That's how they saved money. So, yeah. All right. A lot of the guys that did the visual effects on Star Trek on our shows had worked on big stuff with boss films like Star Wars, the original films and stuff. Like they were using the same tricks on those movies that they were using. on our show. So, yeah, very funny. Yeah, we're back on the bridge. Klingon's fire on them. The battle begins. Dukot does compliment Cisco in the sequence, which he says, you're very Cardassian and your

punctuality showing here. I like that. I like that. I'll comment. Yeah. Cisco tells the Kardashians to prepare to evacuate, tells Worf to use his discretion in targeting the Klingon. So Worf is kind of set free to take him out and he does. This is also where our weapons officer is injured in some of the sparks and explosion. Patricia gets thrown from her chair and nobody pays attention. No. No. I did like when the defiant flies right through the explosion in space. That was nice. That was nice. But the whole thing is to get those council members. and everybody off of that which they have no reason to get yes they don't need to get them true they don't need to guess um Cisco tells uh Bashir to prepare to receive casualties and have security

standing by he wants blood screenings done to make sure they're not founders right and in case martak was right um the defiant wharf has a great idea he has a suggestion he puts a tractor beam onto the attacking ship Worf is very smart here he is a modulated tractor beam to disrupt their fire so you're pretty sciencey there Michael getting a little technical

with your tractor beams well when it comes to killing people he's really he's very clever he's a machine he's a machine yes lots of lots of fire on the bridge of the defiant lots of liquid nitrogen everywhere

they pulled out all the effects in the sequence and finally out in space the Kardashian ship does explode I was going to make a comment on the fire elements that Dan Curry used because I remember shadowing him a bit learning about how they build this they would they would build these boxes these big boxes like 12 feet deep of black they're all painted black and then they would shoot fire like I guess natural gas or propane fire and they'd film the fire in these boxes that they had built and those elements would then be used in these sequences

so I got to watch them film some of the fire in these fire boxes that they built and it was very cool I think he used a lot of that footage in this sequence yes the cloaking device is damaged they're going to have to head back to DS9 after this big this big fight rescue yeah this rescue to Dukot's ship does get destroyed luckily they got off just in time um Bishir's doing some blood tests Dukhat's offended by this but Bashir insists um like when Duccott says I find this whole procedure offensive

Bashir's responses and I find you offensive I don't know it was kind of a childish response but it made me laugh I thought it was back on the bridge. Dax wins a bet here. I guess they had bet that dinner. Dax says you owe me dinner. And Dax says, well, Captain Sisko bet me that you would thank him for the rescue before you started complaining. But no, he started complaining right away. So, Warf's kind of mad in this scene that they lost the cloaking device, helping a Cardassian, that it's damaged. And then we go to Quarks. So big battle, we go to Quarks. I like this scene a lot,

Armand Shimmerman. Thank you. It's you. It's a lot of people. Me too. I, I loved it. Yeah.

Okay. So initially, I did too. This scene was added because they said that they were short on time for the episode. No, sir. But I'm not done yet.

But in reality, they actually had more than enough. And so that they were going to cut this scene, but they fought very hard to keep it in. thank god because they love it oh goodness it's in the original script and indeed um we shot it twice we shot it a week apart really what do you mean why the reshoot i'm going to tell you why i'm going to tell you why so as as all of you know um i used to rehearse with actors in my house before uh on the

weekend yeah i had asked andy robinson to come to the house and to work on this scene together And as Andy and I worked on the scene, we began to realize there was more to it. There was double entendres involved in the scene that we thought we could use as McAvill's. Andy was the true McAvelle on the show. I was the comic McAvill. And we worked on it for a day, and we brought it on Monday to be shot. Jim Conway asked us to read it and we read it and he looked at us scantz and said I can't shoot it that way that this is what I remember is that he said it's not comic

you didn't make this scene comic and I got up on my hind legs and said we don't see it as a comic scene and he astutely said well I can't shoot it your way and i and i it's the only time i my my cohorts here on deep space nine i think will back me up on this this is the only time that i said well then i can't shoot it your way oh wow that's huge for you to say that oh that's definitely yeah wow especially on the day yeah and he looked at me and he said well we're going to have to bring the writer producers in i said great let's do that so ira and robert hewitt wolf showed up i'd say 10 15 minutes later jim said we have a problem here um ira said what's the problem i explained it to him um he said can you shoot it the way we want you to do it and andy and i are

very good actors and we said sure we can do it that way here you want it this way look and we did it the way he wanted and then he sort of said so how do you want to do it and andy and i did it the way we had rehearsed it in the way we wanted to do it it took ira all of 20 30 seconds probably less and said turned to jim and said shoot it armands way wow um and so one of the reasons you like the scene is because what's not being said it's what's intended it's what's under the radon and that's the way we always wanted to shoot it um we shot it what was written in the original script They rewrote the scene to play more of that. They may even have cut some stuff out.

I don't remember. But what you see in the episode now is the second version of this scene that we reshot, I would say, a week later. And they went even further with your tone and your idea. It's funny because my note that I wrote down, I said, I love this scene. It's all subtext, which is the double entendre you're talking about. I loved the fact that these two characters in the midst of this epic, big battle were personalizing this in such a nuanced way. And I really loved it. Well, we were both, both characters are under deep danger.

But if we don't win, if Starfleet, if the big guy doesn't win for us, we're in deep trouble. They were often in danger. but they rarely showed that they were in danger with all due respect to my fellow actors. This was an opportunity to sort of suggest, yeah, we're in deep guano here, and we have to be concerned about what the future might be. And that's what I love about the scene. And I'm, you know, great respect for Ira, for choosing it my way, but also great respect for Jim Conway for saying,

exactly the right thing followed the book perfectly nobody's feelings were hurt um we did it uh professionally um a choice was made if they had gone the other way and i would have said ira would have said please shoot it the way we want you to shoot it um i probably would have done it um but um but this is the only time in seven years that i said no no it's huge you know can i say it's wonderful too in the scene especially showing that everyone's in danger that's right i would say that we rarely saw that how it would affect everybody else's life on the station you see us in the battle we come back and everything's like la di da but you don't see people nervous on the station about what we're going out to go do whatever it is yeah exactly right and that's what war is about it's you have the army's

fighting but it's the people back in the cities who are waiting to find out what the armies have done in knowing full well that either they're going to be killed if the if the enemies win or will they be saved at the last minute it it's a lovely scene in that way as well you're absolutely right all right we go back to ops and miles picks up the defiant is returning but there's two cling on ships chasing them they're going to have to use these new systems these mystery systems that he's been installing. They say Ray's Shields. We go to Quarks, the red alert, the alarms are sounding, quarks very frustrated.

How's he going to make money war all the time? Aye, aye, aye. We go to the bridge. As we go and the team arrive. Dukot doesn't think that they're in trouble. And Dax says, oh, no, it's not just these two ships following them. We got friends. They've got friends.

We cut out to space. And there is the fleet of Christmas ornament ships all out in space. I love that you found that out. Yeah. There's models and toys. There's hundreds of Hallmark Christmas ornaments out there, Captain. So it's one big commercial is what you're saying for a whole. Yes.

That's what it is. Isn't that what we were for the toys? Yes. Yeah, exactly. We were just a big commercial. That's right. Back in ops, Starfleet is sending backups, but this is a huge fleet. They've got to fight them.

Cisco says battle stations, Bashir's getting ready, anticipating a big bloody mess. Odo arrives, offers to help. Bashir says, I don't want security here because I'm going to need all this room for injured people. And it's a nice moment, kind of like you and Garrick, Armin. This is an Odo and Bashir moment of, you know, these kinds of. kind of the smaller side of war. I did like that Odo wants an opera, a Klingon opera about his story if he dies. And Bashir doesn't want to hear it.

Yes, exactly. All right, so we're in the promenade a little bit later. Cork is locking up the bar. Otto's like, why are you still here? This is the one. Okay, you should be in an emergency shelter by now. And Cork's like, no, I'm going to defend my bar. And he's got this box.

And Cotto's like, how you're to defend it is with my disruptor pistol. and he opens it up, there's a, there's no pistol. There's actually a note in there, which he reads, Dear Quark, I use parts of your disruptor to fix the replicators. We'll return them soon. Rom. He has nothing. And then the look, just the end of it.

Sorry, Armin. So I think Cork says, I will kill him. And Odo says, with what? Which is very funny, too. Go ahead, Ovin. Again, I went, oh. So I understand the universal translators. You have to hear it and gets translated through whatever.

Okay. Okay. So Odo reads Ferengi? I noticed that too. It was written in Ferengi. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could see through the paper that the note was written on. You could see the Ferengi language. You could see it was the Ferengi figure, you know, so I thought, that doesn't play. But, but, but again, this is that this is, even in the midst of war, life goes on. And, and the life, the, the bantering back and forth between. Quark and Odo, this is what I was saying before,

continues on even despite the fact that their lives are in danger. And listen, if anyone's life is in danger, if the Klingons win, Odo's life is in danger. It's Odo, yeah. Oh, God, yeah. Well, we got that, too, with Bashir in that conversation. Yeah. It, like, reminded us.

Don't forget. Odo's in trouble. He's a shape shifter. He's just like Worf in a way. He's a man alone, away from his people, and not connected to his people, but trying to figure out where he belongs. But connected to his own honor.

Yes. And wasn't Quark defending his honor? He wanted to stand up for his bar. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Just saying. Just saying.

Well, that's what makes DS9 so interesting is you've got a lot of people that are not part of their tribe trying to figure out how to get along with each other. It's unique and amazing. We see Starfleet security setting up all around the promenade, and we see Dukot and Garrick walking down a corridor. Garrick joins Duccott. They don't really trust each other, but you see them kind of stand shoulder to shoulder, and Garrick is going to work with them and defend the ship. And what I found fascinating, two really good actors with two radically different acting styles doing a scene together.

that i i cannot imagine two more different acting styles than those two actors and what they use for their own uh their process and i i watched the two of them it was like watching two different theater pieces side by side yeah yeah but it was nice to see them you know literally you know um andy turned and stood next to um to to do to mark to mark to mark to mark there and and it was nice to see we never have seen that on this show yeah to put aside their differences just to be to team up for this one moment which is the enemy of my enemy is my friend there you go back to ops yes everybody's getting a weapon here they're distributing all the weapons um martok wants the cardassians gowron and martok are confident that cisco

is is going to be able to take care of this because they've got five thousand photon torquins torpedoes. I didn't. That number was like, what? How many do they have? 5,000. Is there even room to store 5,000 torpedoes on the station? Yes, there is. It's a really big station. It's a big station. The model looks smaller than it is. It's like a TARDIS. Okay, let's go. Yeah. Cisco scans, you know, for the ships and Wharf has a line at the end of this. Today is a good day to die. How many times have you said that, Michael? Do you know?

Not that many. Not that many? But there is, there's iterations of that, which is very interesting. You know, sometimes you say today is a good day to live. You know, I mean, it's just, there's really no rules for that. But that, yeah. It was nice to hear in this introduction of your character to the show that you got to say such a kind of classic cling on phrase there.

I think he translated. I don't think actually Michael says it. I think he translates it. I think he's somebody else says it. Oh, that's right. Gowron says it. Well, that's because Martok says it's a trick, right? We missed that part.

That's right. They think this is all a ruse that Deep Space Nine is not as protected as we are trying to make it look like we are. Yeah. Well, the fight begins. The station's attacked. see some really cool space shots of spinning photon torpedo launchers and cut with super tight close-ups on the bridge of Cisco going fire, ready phasers, fire. It's just a great sequence between space and the intensity and ops of this battle. They're taking out a lot of hallmark

ornaments. That is for sure. Ships exploding everywhere. At one point, Cisco says fire at will. and so they're just firing all over the place. And we do. Yes, we do. The Klingons are mad about this. They're speaking a lot of Klingon, which means they must be nervous. They must be nervous.

Basically, this is the biggest fight in DS-Histri, DS-9 history, that I can remember. This is bigger than anything I've ever seen. It's huge. It's huge. Can you, do you want to hear what they said in the battle very quickly? because they just say Martuk and Galron in battle

they say they fight like Klingons and then the response is then they can die like Klingons and then destroy their shields prepare boarding parties I understand all ships concentrate fire on their shield generators and so that whole Klingon back and forth between those two was that that's the

That's what they were saying. That's what they were saying That's a translation. Thank you. You're welcome. Well they are boarding the station because Klingons are appearing everywhere and it's hand-to-hand fighting now. Some of the, some of the worst, they must have sent the worst warriors. Yes.

Yes. We just take him out like, boop, bo, bo, bo, bo. Oh, they were swarming in and they were just getting taken out like bunches at a time. But it was a good day for Randy. Randy is the nondescript, Bajoran, actually Starfleet off soldier. I wish they would have given him a better military haircut. because it stands out to me that everybody looks real clean and he

kind of has a little relaxed. Randy has a lot in this episode. He has a lot of appearances. He's one of the background players and was Renee's stand in. And he has a lot and he's there firing at Klingons all during the sequence. Well, to further

Michael's comment, yes, sending the worst Klingons. It looked like a version of the Chucky Cheese whack-a-mole game. Like every time a Klingon showed up, they just shoot, knock them out. And it was. a little kind of frustrating to watch that it was like oh come on let's make this a little bit more realistic it was a little too easy yeah yes kira gets stabbed in the sequence that was the realism i like that though i think a couple more of us should have gotten hurt yes there was blood on

people's faces though there was a lot of oh brian got blood right yeah there was a lot of seriously after this all this money and all these battles yes and who gets the one woman on the on the station that we know of gets hurt the men are all scot-free and she had she punched a cling on and i'm like going he can't take a punch oh god he can't take a punch you know yes cisco's got cisco and dachs have battle left by the way there are obviously two women of importance on this station i just realized i made a mistake yes well dax is fighting with her batlith Dax, Terry, you had great bat-leth technique. Good fighting there.

She's a Klingon. I mean, she's been training with Klingon, so that makes sense. Makes perfect. And Dennis. We've been told that. We saw that with the fight with Worf. That was set up so that we get that. Yeah.

But I just wish her stunt double was her height. That's the only thing I wish. That's, I don't like looking at the short stunt double for Terry. I did have a tall stump double for a long time. Okay. But in this scene, that's not that person. I don't know who that person is. probably patty um i did notice that cisco calls odo in the middle of this fight and otto is like a news reporter in the foreground with the fight going on behind him it just made me laugh i was like i don't know if he should be out in the wide open in the middle of fight reporting but yeah so the fight goes on and the good guys win basically well it's kind of psychology that they're using right because um they basically say that this is they convince galron that that that

essentially these this may be moves that are being done by the founders the founders the founders are orchestrated this whole thing if you go through with this type of win i think they didn't they quote clon something is saying like a win what is it yes there's a quote somewhere that's a really really important quote that makes garon change wharf actually says it he says callus himself said destroying an empire to win a war is no victory because of war quoting calis that they kind of rethink this. Yeah. And because Gowron's response is

an ending a battle to save an empire is no defeat. Right. Oh, right. So he decides to end the battle to save the Klingon Empire, but he's not going to forget, like you said, Terry.

Right. Not forget what happened. So they do win this. Wharf's a big part of helping it, you know, it end the way it did. And the station's kind of getting back to normal. Morn is the first customer back in Corks.

after the door's finally open. Oh, yeah. He's a bar fly. Cisco brings some discharge papers for Wharf, but he shares in this scene that he almost left Starfleet as well. And he shares that he was trying to escape the pain of his wife's death, and pain's always going to catch up with you. And Worf mentions that this uniform reminds him of what he's lost.

You know, Cisco says that he knows he will always be a Starfleet officer, no matter what. That's very interesting about that. It's like we're both talking about two separate things. things, you know? Yeah. You know, he's going, I'm going, well, you know, I didn't lose anybody. I just lost the, you know, this thing that I thought was important, you know, well, I lost a wife. And I go, you're right. Oh, my word. It's like, let me one up you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, but, but I did, I, I, I, I got to say that, that I, that I liked working with Avery. Yeah. It's a good scene between the two of you. And, and, and, and, you know, and, and,

In your own very different ways, you've questioned your Starfleet futures and found a way forward. And Worf at the end of the scene says, you know what? Maybe I've got an idea. And we cut to ops and Worf is revealed in his new DS9 uniform. Command Red. Command Red, strategic operations officer. And that's where we can, I can tell you that I walk out and. O'Brien, if I got this right, I haven't read it, but in many years, but O'Brien says, you look good in red.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I say it feels good, too. Mm-hmm. And I hated that line. Well, you add to it, and I'm wondering if this is the part you really hated. Not only that does it feel good, but I have a lot to learn about command. Yeah.

Yeah. it was it was like okay first of all warf doesn't he doesn't make comments like oh and it feels good too you know i mean it's sort of it didn't sound like warf yes and so and uh anyway you should have asked ira to come to the set like well and further i told no no i i i told james i said i just can't you know this doesn't make any sense warf doesn't talk like that and uh And he says, well, you got a call. And I called Ira, and we had 20 minutes. Wow.

Well, so you did talk to him about it. Oh, yeah. We had 20 minutes where I was going, but he doesn't talk like that. Well, yeah, he does. We make it. I said, no, no, Ira, he doesn't talk like that. That's not who he is. You know, you hire me for this guy and you want to start changing him, you know, into something else.

he doesn't what is that armin where you say something but it's not really like oh it feels good too that's not really it doesn't feel good but he's making an illusion to um it's almost like a self aware of our team now yeah not so much the color but so much of color not so much how it really feels on his skin but that's what they were trying is oh you know like a clever line like oh and it feels good you're like no no no he would say thank you yeah thank you yeah go right on to the and i said and i 20 minutes and i went you know i don't want to wait i don't want to make everybody wait for me to to do this you know so i said it and it was like okay i just know that from now on there's going to be these battles.

And I need to talk to Rick and I need to talk to these guys about, you know, where this is headed. And that's what, but and the other thing too was that I think column says you're learning from the best guy or something like that at the very, well, you couldn't ask for a better teacher. Yeah.

Once again, I go, you know, to myself, I'm going, you know, to myself, I'm going, Jesus Christ, I just had Picard and right. Yes. But that's the point, Michael. Yes. It's Cisco. It's D-Space 9.

It's, it's, it's, it's their ways to write their way of saying. They're elevating Cisco. Yeah. Yeah. Did I tell you that I was on the Enterprise? Yeah. We saved that. Do we tell you that that series was canceled, you know?

Oh. Oh. Oh, ouch. No, it ended. It ended, yes. And you know, Armand, you know, I'm going to tell Kitty on you. You know that, don't you? I'm going to tell you how I'm going to tell her how just horrible you were to me.

Oh, wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah, it became clear. It really coalesced that where this was going. The director's in a horrible point. situation yeah they're in the middle he's in the middle he's gotten his his tone meeting from the writers and he's got the actor saying and so this is why that's why i thought that he handled

it well with me which was he just i'm going to stay out of this i'm going to bring the producer in let them decide yeah so you can't blame the director because they have they're taking their orders from no no i'm not i'm not blaming him i just said that he and i had he and i had a had at a moment where Michael you got to do it and I'm going no I'm not going to do it and yes you got and you don't understand and I said well I do you know and this is a problem because the writers and the actors were kept apart yeah yes if the writers and the actors could have hashed it out the director wouldn't have been consulted and that's that's an over overall thing that is I don't know about other shows.

I haven't been on money in a shows now after that. But that was a, that permeated the Star Trek world. Yeah. It was keeping everybody apart. Don't ask, you know, don't, don't talk to the actors. Who says don't talk to the actors? I mean, what, what kind of production does that, you know?

Quite a few, actually. A lot of them don't, but quite a few do. Quite if you do, yeah. Weird. Anyway. So that was more. All right. Well, just to end this scene, basically the final, the final takeaway is that the Klingons are not giving up the Cardassian colonies that they took during the invasion.

So they are here to stay. And Cisco says, maybe so, but so are we. So that's the end of the episode. Right there. Nice. Let's talk about the lesson here, the lesson or theme of this episode. Robbie, what is yours? mine i got from the uh cisco and wharf kind of theme which is running away from your feelings

is not going to solve anything quitting starfleet running away from cisco's feelings about his dead wife like that's not going to be the solution the best solution in the end so that's my my blessing all right terry mine um be true to your convictions your integrity your morals your heart your honor that's all you have at the end of the day no matter what else happens you have to live with yourself i like it armen i echo rabbi uh it's the same thing the only way to deal with pain this is the quote the only way to deal with pain is to stand your ground and face it okay michael any lesson from this uh episode that you would like to impart on the audience yeah Everything you need to make it in your world comes from within inside.

I love it. I love that. I love that. Well said, my friend. Very well said. My lesson is a new, a different lesson. I had another lesson written down, but my new lesson is because of what Michael said. And that lesson is, today is a good day to live.

on an overall thing about the business pick your battles pick your battles yes ask yourself do you want to die on this hill because if you don't you shouldn't right okay Terry what is our Patreon poll winner our Patreon poll winner for the theme moral of this episode is submitted by Justin sometimes standing by your morals isn't easy but that's when it means the most. Thank you, Justin. Thanks, Justin. Thank you, Justin. All right.

Try to remember that in a Ferengi episode as well, will you? Hey, hey, everyone. Thank you for tuning into our recap and discussion of this episode, Way of the Warrior. We want to thank everyone for joining here. We have everyone here, including Michael Dorn, our very special guest host. Thank you, Michael, so much. Remember, everyone, next week, there is no episode. The next episode will come the following week, and that will be the visitor with Terry.

Terry will be joining us for that one. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little bit more of Michael Dorn, our wonderful guest hosts. For everyone else, see you next time.