The Delta Flyers - Things Past

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Things Past, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry Farrell.Things Past: After losing consciousness in the Runabout, Sisko, Odo, Dax and Garak awake in the past on Terok Nor, where they are to be executed for an attempt on Gul Dukat's life.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Jenny Cordina, Izzy Jaffer, Andrew Cano, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Dellman, Chris Garis, Sean T, Cindy Woodford, Interstellar Tess, & Tamara Evans. Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Matt Norris, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Robby Hill, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Jeff Allen, & Linda Paiges. And our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Sab Ewell, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Kelly Brown, Sarah Thompson, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Sarah, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Brian Heckathorne, Kilian Trapp, Katherine M. Prioli, Nelson Silveira, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andy Bruce, Durrell Bishop, Andrew Golden, & Daniel Friend. Thank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark Dax and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through the episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Gara Twong. For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers, sign up to become a super cool patron today. Hey, everybody. Well, how is everybody? Hanging in there.

Yeah. And during the cold weather right now. Yeah. I'm curious, have you two made resolutions, New Year's resolutions? You're going to proclaim. Work out. Yeah? I haven't been, this last year has been too much travel and not enough self-care.

Self-care. Okay. All right. I love to hear that. Good. And I know when I start working out, I'll start feeling good again. Yeah. Like it all goes together, right?

Yeah. And Robbie's already been on that workout regimen because look at how slim he is right now. But the first couple of weeks are hard, aren't they, Robbie? They are hard. They are hard. Yeah, because you're sore and it's like, oh. Yeah. Start small.

Start small and make it consistent, not long or intense. You know, that's the best way. That's what I did last April. I just was like, I'm going to do a. little something every day. I do a seven-minute workout. How did you stop? But how did you, how did you prevent yourself from quitting? Because quitting is so easy to do. What did you do to keep yourself on the path? You know, for me, it's really staying healthy that I started last April was about health, was about medical health, like getting healthy. And so I just kept reminding

myself of why I was doing it. Right. This is for your life, your life, uh, longevity is When you're looking to lose weight that you have to look at it as not just a diet, but a change in your lifestyle. Yeah. And the change has to do with your health because then it's not about the ego of what your body's, what you want it to look like. It's driven by self-care. Yeah. I have a, I don't have it on now, but a Garmin watch that does all my health monitoring. So like my steps and heart rate and BMI and V-O-2 Macs and all that stuff.

Yeah. And I really used that on a daily basis to check my numbers. And so I was seeing like tiny little success. And I would just focus on that like, oh, you know, two tenths of a pound today. That's great. Yes. It doesn't have to be a lot, just a little bit every day. And it adds up.

So tech actually helped you stick to your regimen in a way. That did. The data for sure. I love that. I love that. And I think the biggest thing is when people start working out, they get frustrated quickly because they don't see any change or any quick, immediate change. And an old friend of mine, Jake Rosenberg, would tell me, you need, it takes your body

30 days to start to have the transformation. So you have to work out for 30 days. And then you will, at the end of that 30, you will begin to see your body change morphing in. So that's something that it's a. like a delayed satisfaction. You just have to, and we're so about, all about immediate gratification in this society in this day and age. So to be able to sit back and be patient, that's very difficult for some people. It's difficult. Okay. Okay. Birthday times? Let's talk about some birthdays. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about January 26. Let's talk about

January 26th. Let's talk about Jameson, Eisenberg. You guys know where I'm going. That song. Yeah, it's a song. Yeah. So, okay. Jameson Eisenberg, January 26, this Jameson's birthday. Happy birthday, my friend Jameson. Jameson. Kick it. Have the best birthday ever. Happy birthday, Jameson. Terry said kick it.

I know. That was great. I know. Okay. Okay. Our next birthday is Heath K. January 28th. What a beautiful day.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Heath. Happy birthday, Heath. Happy birthday, Heath. And our last birthday, this week is Ryan Tomey on January 31st. Ryan, happy birthday. Ryan, happy birthday.

Happy birthday, R.T. Garrett, we have some new profits this month. We do. Oh, my goodness. Tamara Evans is one. Tamara Evans, welcome to the profit level. Welcome, Tamara. Welcome.

Interstellar Tess, welcome to the profit level. We're so glad you're here. Interstellar Tess. Thank you for joining us. Welcome to the private level, interstellar test. Let's get into this episode via our poetry synopsis, starting with Robbie Duncan McNeil with his limerick. Yes, I'm very proud of this limerick this week.

I have to say, I did something new. So usually I try to do a limerick where I start at the beginning and try to capture the plot. And I was like, you know what, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to capture this idea. of Odo's feelings. I just want to talk about that. And it seemed to open up my poetic creativity much better.

So I'm proud of it. Robbie, before you go, I just want to say that this is one of my favorite segments is listening to you, do your limerick. Really? Yes. And so I don't even look at the script. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a script in front of us on our laptops. I don't look at it beforehand.

I look at you, your face, so I can let it wash over me for the first time. Because so many times they're so good or they're so funny. Oh, yeah. This one's not funny. No, no, this is deep. It doesn't matter. But this is great. Just go.

Okay. Here we go. When the timeline snapped them back to their place, shame and regret showed across Odo's face. Now the team truly knew what he once let come true, all his guilt that survived time and space. Oh. Oh, very deep. Very deep. It kind of captures Odo's.

It does, man. Yeah, he's really good. It's so good. We don't even have to review this episode. We're done, actually. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We're finished. Robbie encapsulated everything.

We're good. Oh, my gosh. That was very good. I do not have one I apologize. That's okay. No worries. No worries. Because I watched it this morning.

No worries. Okay, here we go. Here's my haiku for things past. Plasma storm brings past. Odo relives a mistake, forced to reveal truth. Ooh. Yours was deep, too. Yeah, it's kind of clean, too.

Yeah. It's clean and it's deep and it's, I mean, this is a, it's a bad episode. It is a very sad episode. Yeah, it's a tough one. Written by Michael Taylor, directed by Lovar Burton. Oh, interesting. I didn't even pay attention. Taylor related to Jerry Taylor?

No. Okay. No relation. But I was dying to ask. Yes, you can. Of course. Guestar is Mark Alimo as Ducat. Andrew J. Robinson as Garrick. Kurt Wood Smith is Thrax. Victor Bevine as Belar.

Brendan Baird as a soldier. Luann Lowe as Ocala. Judy Durand as Station Computer Voice. All right. Trivia. According to Memory Alpha. Robert Hewitt Wolf. Let me just get to this very quickly. All right.

According to Robert Hewert Wolf, the producers had wanted to do another Terrick Nore show ever since the popular reception of the episode Necessary Evil in the second season. However, they were not keen on doing another memories flashback show. And the only other thing that they could come up with was time traveling, which they also wished to avoid. Ultimately, it was Michael Taylor who came up with the idea of using the subconscious of a character as a gateway of sorts into the past. However, the original pitch, Michael Taylor's original pitch, differed substantially from the finished form of the episode. Initially, he had Cisco, Dax, Garrick, and Odo waking up from a dream to find that they are still in a dream and are actually in one another's dreams. The denouement of the episode would reveal that Odo is having the master dream and that everything they experienced was from his past.

So I kind of like it better that they didn't wake up from a dream. It became more sci-fi, I feel, when they went through the past. plasma storm. But I wish they would have showed the plasma storm is another thing. I do too. It's like, huh? Yeah. So that was, all right. So that's a little bit of info there. You had to have a little viewpoint there. Secondly, the impetus to create a dark pass for Odo came from the writer's desire to sully his character to a degree. As Ronald D. Moore explains, one of the things that always drove the writing staff nuts was the idea that Odo had been a policeman during. the Cardassian occupation, but had never gotten his hands dirty, that he had been above it all, and that everybody had trusted him. We never bought that. It seemed to me that if I were a

Bajoran, I wouldn't trust the cop who's still on duty from the occupation. Somewhere along the line, something bad went down on Odo's watch, and things passed was the show to say it. But pretty cool, that insight, though, of what they were trying to show, right? Yeah, I think that was, yeah, I thought that was a very powerful part of the episode. For sure. I think it's always interesting, too, when you hear the original pitch was very different than where they ended up. Because to me, that's a sign that, and we'll get into it as we talk about the episode. But I think it's a really strong episode in a lot of ways and also flawed in a lot of ways.

And when I hear that, oh, the writers, they pitch one thing, they wrote another. It always feels to me like, uh-oh, that could be trouble because they're not clear on how this story unfolds in a way. way that's going to be, you know, fulfilling, that they're trying to serve a bunch of different stories and they end up somewhere in the middle of all of them, if that makes sense. Yes, it totally makes sense. So they're, they end up with something less than what they wanted to have. Is that what you're saying? It's sort of less dramatic because they don't know what the actual thing to focus on,

you know, stay focused on the arc of the show. So it's less dynamic? Is that a good way of saying it? To me, I feel like when they, when they struggle and they, you know, debate these stories, it leads to often, you know, trying to serve too many masters. They're trying to do too many things. Okay. Yes.

Yeah. I remember David Livingston gave me some great advice when I was shadowing him. He told, and I've mentioned this before, but he said, go read. It's a grammar book from high school English class. He said, go read the book. Lois Egre is the author, and it's called The Art of Dramatic Writing. David Livingston said, read the first chapter about premise or thesis. He said that is the most important thing to directing or storytelling, I think, is to know the story that you're telling and how you can articulate that.

100%. Can you spell the author? Yeah. If you don't know the story, how are you directing it? Yeah. And in that book, he breaks it down very simply. Yeah. The art of dramatic writing by the art of...

I have it somewhere because the last time you brought this up. And I'm bringing it up again. Robbie brought up the book before. Yes, he did. I just haven't read it yet. You actually got it right after you brought it up? Oh, my God. I'm so impressed.

Oh, there you are? I just thought how interesting. Maybe I'll come visit you and we'll read it together. It's a very short book. And I want everyone to thank David Livingston for this because it is a great book on writing or filmmaking or anything. It just boils it down. The author's name is Lejos, L-A-J-O-S, last name, Egg.

E-G-R-I. That to me is what's missing in this episode as, as, you know, rich in character, background and all of that and emotional, you know, fuel. That's all there. But what's missing is that arc or that simple story that in Lois Egri's book or Laos Egri, he sort of boils it down in a way that I use that still when I direct. I try to come up with my premise or my thesis statement. And that's going to be my lighthouse for the whole episode.

I know where I'm going. Yeah. Makes sense. So while in production, this episode was jokingly christened Nightmare on Odo Street by director Lovar Burton. Very funny. I love that. This episode is the very first appearance of Garrick ever since the fourth season episode Broken Link, where he was sentenced to six months in prison for sabotage and assaulting Wharf.

Apparently, this episode, it's sentencing. that six months after the time that broken link took place. I don't even remember. I'm sorry, guys. Oh, I remember that. Do you remember that episode? Oh, yeah. He hit, he hit work, right?

Yeah, and he was on, he wanted to go on that mission. Yes. Okay. But I don't remember him getting sentenced to prison, though. You remember that part, too? Oh, yeah. Okay. All right.

My brain is. He was sentenced to six months, and that was last season. So he's already done his time, but they don't reference it in this episode, which. It would think that's a big deal. It doesn't feel like it was referenced at all during. It would have been nice if they had said that, right? You know, hey, Garrick, it must feel nice being out of the clink, you know, finally. Welcome back.

Yeah. Did I just use clink? Is clink used as jail? Yeah. That's like from 18. It made me think of Hogan's heroes when you said that. Did it? Colonel clink.

Oh. If they had said something that referenced it, that would have been great for all of us to sort of catch up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And reestablish something real. I mean, that seems like reality that we haven't seen him in all this time. And it reminds the audience, especially now that I'm thinking about it, I'm sorry, I just jumped thoughts. But because we were syndicated and also at that time, if you missed it, it was like, oh, my gosh, I'm lost in the story.

So it would be, it's prudent if we don't have one of those last. Yes, we didn't. Yeah. That would be great. So we did ourselves a disservice in its storytelling. For sure. This was one of Renee Obosgen-Wa's favorite episodes. He said, quote, I loved the script.

Odo is a character whom we've come to believe always tells the truth. In fact, in the pilot, he says to Descartes, there's one thing that you know about me. I never lie. We've tried to be consistent with that, but that doesn't mean he doesn't lie to. himself. He is this wonderfully contradictory character in that he's made of liquid, but he's very rigid. I love that quote. Oh, that's great. Great way to describe it. It's genius. So cool. Yeah. I said that. Yeah. Lavar, another bit of trivia, LeVar Burton commented that he found things passed a lot of fun because we had an opportunity to experience a different visual style for D-Space 9. We had an opportunity to get dark.

Barker, really gritty. I know it was a lot of fun for Jonathan West, the DP. So, yeah, I'm sure Jonathan had a blast. I love Jonathan West. So Rock Lofton and Colmini do not appear in this episode, sadly. It would be great to have their contributions. And the final bit of trivia in this episode, Worf says runabout pad one. In every single other episode of DC-S-9,

run-about pads are mentioned by letter, not number. So my question to you too, is there a deeper meaning to this? Is there a deeper, not at all, it was a total goof? Because we've already heard from Armin the whole feeling of, you know, why bring someone from TNG to our show? We're fine on our own kind of a thing. So I thought, was this another way that the writer secretly, you know, Iris Stephen Bear sort of said, hey. No. Not at all.

Okay. I think there's just every once in a while, there's something that gets missed by the person who, who is supposed to be doing the fact check. Right. Got it. Or Judy Brown or whoever's subbing for Judy Brown. I think that could have been somebody subbing because I think because Judy worked on next gen that she would have caught that.

For sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. People have sick days, right? So someone could have filled it and didn't catch something there. Absolutely. Robbie, let's jump into this.

Yeah, let's jump into it. we start on this runabout and Garrick is basically very insulted that the Bajorans argued everything that he shared at this conference about the Cardassian occupation. Everything that he said they were counterpoint and would argue him on everything. So he's insulted. And Odo's kind of grumpy. He was off to me immediately, which just spoiler alert, I'll say that's fundamentally my problem. Oh. Oh. Is that he starts with something clearly going on, and this journey doesn't seem as surprising or taking him off guard because it seems like he's expecting it in some way. So you felt like he was even more grumpy than normal?

I thought he was. He was off to himself. And it just seemed odd to me. I didn't clock that. Was that supposed to indicate it was about him? Maybe. I didn't clock it, though. I got to watch it again.

But I don't think we should know it's about him in the beginning. No, exactly. Not the first couple of scenes. We should discover like, oh, everybody's saying the Bajorans hailed Odo as a hero. He's basically like this mythical, you know, god of justice or something. If he had been happy and proud about that, and then suddenly this plasma storm hits and throws him off.

And anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. But to me, in this first scene, he was already so grumpy. and they're saying, but you were a hero. And so I immediately was suspicious. He had nowhere to go. He had nowhere to go. That makes sense. No, that makes total, total sense.

So do you think maybe Renee had already been working on the script so much? And he was in that mode because he had to shoot a later scene. I'm wondering, could that have been an actor choice. It could have been suggested in the script itself. I don't know, but that's one of the things that I thought, oh, I immediately, my immediately my focus went to him. And it shouldn't have. It should not have gone to him at all.

I don't think so. It should have stayed on Garrick, basically, or whoever. Everybody else. Yeah. And if they had gone with what we suggested earlier, meaning accepting the fact that he had been in prison for six months and somehow showing that, maybe he has totally a whole beard or something. I don't know.

Maybe he looks like that. But he's just something that kind of sets him aside where he's the focus, that would have taken everything on a photo. Do Cardassian shave? Do they have facial hair? think so. Oh, okay. So, but their hair could grow long. Right? Yeah, they are reptilian. Yeah. And then they could say like, what's with the long hair? Yeah. You haven't had a haircut since you were in jail.

Exactly. Exactly. He's got this huge fro or whatever, just big hair. Get a haircut, parole. Hey, man. Something like that. Anyway, we learned that Odo made friends on both sides, that that came up at this conference. And yeah, he doesn't seem very happy about it at all. Nope. Garick's really upset. He says, my understanding of this conference, was that it was supposed to be an examination of the occupation from a dispassionate historical perspective. But instead, everyone went out of their way to dismiss virtually everything, I said. So he was personally insulted. Mift.

Yeah. We go to ops next. The shuttle's returning. There's a new officer in Ops, Ocala. Yes. I don't think we've seen her before. A pejorin. Yeah.

But she's got bad news. No response from the shuttle. Yeah. It's on autopilot. It's heading towards a station. and life signs are very weak on this show. So this was my problem with this entire episode was this very beginning.

It didn't show the inciting incident. It was sort of like they're talking. The last thing you hear is Cisco says, and a legend is born. Talking about how Odo's like their God. Yeah. And then the next thing is they'll call it, oh, I'm detecting they're coming in.

They're all pilot. They're all unconscious. They're dying. I'm like, what? Why isn't there a flash of like kind of one of those big, big things that they do. Anything. Special effects.

Thank you. And then cut to the ops. So that's the only thing that made me go, what? So that was in the very beginning. I would imagine it was budget. Probably so. Well, on the positive side, I will say in this op scene, that Lavaar, I didn't even clock who directed this until you read it today.

Whoa. So LeVar did a great job, though. This is a beautiful wonder on ops. The whole thing pushes all the way into. to a wharf close-up at the end from a wide shot and him moving across and revealing Ocala, this new officer. I thought it was a beautiful, beautifully directed. It was elegant, the move.

Yes. Elegant. He's very elegant director. He is. And he always smells so good, doesn't he? Smells good. He does. He does.

I love hugging. Hugging LeVar is such, it's like the worst. It's like a lavender patch. Oh. LeVar was the only director who addressed my sweatiness to try to help me. He did? Oh yeah, he came up to me. He noticed you overheating? Well, I was, yeah.

He was a sweater. He was a sweater too. But LeVar was a sweater as well, because I learned that from wardrobe. Every Star Trek show has one sweater. Voyager was me. T&G was LeVar. Flax for Enterprise. I'm not sure who DS9's sweater was.

But LeVar walks up to me, and he's like, gee, man, you're sweating pretty bad, but I get you. we're going to bring a look at towel, a cold towel. We're going to put it on your pressure point on your wrist. He totally got technical with me. Wow. Okay, thanks, Levar. So, yeah, so the man was very accommodated. Column would have been your sweater, the sweatiest person.

Wow. I think so. I can, I would guess that from some of the. I was the one who was like, oh, they tried to mess me up. And I still, you know, they had to, Terry, I didn't brush myself. It just, I don't know. And Sherry would have to put the dirt back on me. Yeah.

And I'm like, well, end with me. Don't start with me. Ravi, I find it funny that do you remember the episode with the Bell riots? Okay. Yes. Okay. So the gang lands on the planet. It's boys and Terry, basically.

It's Dax and the boys. And the boys are getting stabbed, beat on and everything. And Terry gets elevated to this life of luxury by the game. Remember that? And she gets to go to the salami. She's well quaff. She has new clothes. She's eating like rich foods.

And in this episode, the same crap happens. Dax's, the boys are in the hovel. And then Dax gets elevated to the level of the station supervisor or, or they just know where you belong to. Everybody just knows. I did get hit with a phaser though. You did. Yeah. And you had some makeup.

They called me Gold Dukot's girlfriend. They did. Oh, yeah, that's true. So. I liked your scenes with the Gold Dukot, though. You had some good, you did some good work. Yeah. Thank you.

Well, we cut to the runabout after Worf says, he calls Bashir and says, you know, we need a medical team right away. We cut back to the runabout. Everybody's knocked out. They're unconscious in their seats. The team beams on, scans everybody. And Bashir says in this scene, I'm not sure if I can revive them. Right. So whatever he's picked up there, they're very weak life signs and they don't know why.

No information, which is going to become a running theme with Bashir. I'd be like, I told you. I don't know. I still don't know. Yes. I still don't know. Didn't he try to investigate something about the plasma storm? Yes, he did.

He does eventually. So it's, yeah, oh, we'll get there. Okay. We'll get there. I thought they were frozen for some reason when the camera panned in. I just thought they were all frozen in time, but they were, they just looked like that. I thought we looked weird. You agree then with me.

It was a little funky looking. It was off. The way you guys were posed, right? When it comes? Yeah. Like, what's happening? It's like we're in coma. Well, we were kind of in coma.

You were in a coma. Well, we cut randomly into this Terak Nore ghetto, basically. We're on the promenade back in time. I wrote down flashback question mark. I wasn't sure if this was a flashback or where we were, you know. But we've seen it before in the episode like, you know, we've seen it before. we just don't know, like, is it now or is it in the past or what is it? Right.

Well, it'd have to be in the past because it would have to. Right. Yeah. Or an alternate universe. It was hard to know. But Cisco wakes up. Yeah. I go to alternate universe.

There you go. Well, Cisco wakes up. Beautiful crane shot pulls back. We see Bajoran miners everywhere. Beautiful pullback. But I was, I was a little confused. Like, how did we jump here? Right.

You didn't know how it happened, basically. Yeah. Yeah, everybody's knocked out on the bridge and suddenly they're here. Are we in their minds? It started making more sense. What was your first reaction? Did you think it was dream sequence? What did you think when you saw it?

I thought it was a time jump. I thought they had literally jumped back in time, which I guess they do in a certain sense. And I thought we were ourselves naturally. Right. Until, is this the one where we see Golducat? Well, yeah. Not yet. Not quite yet.

Not yet. Okay. So, Balar, this Bajoran prisoner. comes up to them, wakes them all up, and basically says, don't do drugs. Don't sleep on the promenade and don't do drugs. Oh, right, right, right, right. Because they call it chemicals, right? So you spend the night taking chemicals.

That's the way of saying drugs, basically. It's true. Yeah. Don't do drugs, people. Cisco says, let's get out of here. We'll talk about this somewhere else. And I did notice they reuse the crane because they had the last shot of that scene. The first scene was the first scene was,

the big pullback on the crane, and then they probably just moved it over and looked straight down as they ran out. So there you go. Very, very efficient, LeVar. Full use of that crane rental, LeVar. Well, if you've got it. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Want it. We go back to surgery. A nice reveal on the four of them laying on the bio beds, I thought pulled down from that monitor on the ceiling and that wide shot. Yes. And I loved what they created to put over our faces. I was jealous. I was so jealous of that little thing.

And the way we were kind of, our heads were all together. Symmetrical. It was just the composition was beautiful. It was cool. We didn't have that on our show. We didn't have those little head things like that. On our own Voyager. I think to this episode, I don't remember seeing them.

Only for this episode, period. Yeah. And look at how the beds are. That's not how they normally are. No. LaVar just didn't care. He's like, I'm going to make it pretty. No.

And good for him. That's exactly what you should do when you're directing. Bashir says their brains seem to have some, you know, very high activity in their brains, but they're not responding to any kind of stimuli. He can't get their, you know, consciousness to wake up. Worf says the shuttle appears to have hit some kind of plasma storm. And Bashir, this is where he looks up the records of plasma storms. And he says, well, there's no records that a plasma storm could cause all this.

Well, there was something specific, he said. No, he asked about, because they talk about a plot, the computer says the plasma storms, the computer brings up plasma storms, right? And specified neural readings. There are no recorded casual relationships between plasma storms and specific neural readings. Right. Yeah. So then Bashir was to say none. Yes. So that's why it's kind of. But then he asked, Bashir asks, well, how many medical records are there on space plasma phenomena? And the computer goes 5,021, which means he has a lot. lot of reading to do. Yes, which is how he ends the scene. I've got some reading to do. Yeah. Which seems very passive in when you've got your, you know, captain or your, you know, Oh, urgency is not there. Okay. Right. What bothered me is there was no urgency.

On the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the side of that. On the side that's not unconscious, right? Yes. Beshear was way too, like, relaxed about the whole thing. That's how it came off to me. Shockingly relaxed. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't seem like there was real jeopardy other than sleeping beauty. They're just sleeping beauties. There's nothing we can do.

Yeah. Okay. I wish there was more jeopardy. Like their bodies or their brains are failing. And if they stay in this too much longer, we'll lose them. There was never a ticking clock on that side. Yes. It was too casual.

Yeah. Well, we go back to the Terek Norg ghetto. They find a private corner. They are going to catch up. Cisco seems very calm in the scene to me. If I were him, I would be like, what the F? But he's very calm. I'm not going to say calm, Robbie.

And Garrick is way too ready to just jump. Yeah. He's too eager to get like, oh, my God. And Odo's terrified of his. Otto is like, yeah, he's been terrified since the first scene. Yes. It was all, everybody was playing like different responses. And myself and Cisco are like trying, well, I think it's because we're.

We were trying to work it out. It's that calm grain of like reason and, yeah. Robbie used the descriptive word calm. I'm going to use sedated is what I would say that. Yeah, it was very. He was sedated. He took a valium right before the scene. He's like, he's just so like, what?

Yes, it was like he was at the spa. And then it was I was trying to figure it out. Yes, you were the only one that was actively in the scene. Everyone else is like, we're at Riza right now in the spa. Like Robbie said, they were getting a massage. It was like, huh? It was a little spa vibes, which was weird to me. Anyway, they realized that they realize in the scene, everyone sees them as Bajoran.

They're not seeing them as human. Yes, that helped a lot. Oh, because, because when we see Gold Dukot and he doesn't recognize us, there was a moment where he looked down and it was like, yes. Oh, my God, they've been made. And then they're like, oh, he doesn't recognize you. Nothing happens. And I thought that was.

Good. Yes. Yeah, it was good. That was that was a detail that helped explain everything. So they realize everyone's seeing them as Bajorans. Right. But they see each other as they really are. So they're seeing. And they don't know why that is. Right. And isn't this the scene where we're changed? Correct. And isn't this a scene where one of you says, oh, maybe it's a holodeck program that we're in. And they try to end the hall. Is this the same scene? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah. That was funny to me. Cisco says computer and program. He was like, no, that didn't work. Well, when they see Dukot, they decide to run. And as they're running, Odo's in the back of this group. And he bumps into a ghost question. Yeah, that's what I believe. But he looked super gray.

And that's why I thought he had to be dead. And he had the hole, the phaser hole in his chest. There's a clue. It was like a horror character. But nobody else saw him, just Odo. No, yes. Because they ask Odo about him, I think. Yeah, his name is Thrax.

Odo bumps into the man with a phaserburn and the Cisco says, Odo, who was that? And Odo says, I don't know. So maybe they did see somebody, but I don't know. It was unclear. It was unclear that they didn't indicate or make clear that we saw the man because that threw me to that moment. Yeah, is this?

I like the idea better. that we didn't see in the person. Because we didn't see the blood on his hands later. So there's other things we don't see. So how did Cisco see? It's a little inconsistent. This is where I go to. The writers were trying to tell a couple different stories.

Yeah. Kind of landed in the middle. Yeah. I could see that too. But by the way, Renee was doing a great job of playing the pathos and playing that shame and guilt. Like beautiful work. I just think it should have been, you know, kind of shaped a little differently from the writer's side.

Like you said, they try to make the makeup look like that person was dead like a ghost. But in a very split millisecond, when the actor turned, you could see a bit of regular skin. And it was like, ah, you should have covered that. And that to me just pulls me out. I hate that. Even if it's at one one hundredth of a second of screen time. Yeah. Or if you see like they're like Odo's lip coming.

undone or yeah anything that anybody's eye in the cardassians it's funny they shot your show on film on 35 millimeter film and they didn't get dailies until the next day right so they may have seen it after the fact and kind of said well it's too low we're not going to go back and shoot it whereas nowadays you'd have high definition monitors big monitors you'd be able to see that right away. Immediately. On set, you would see it. And even if you don't have the time to fix it, you may say shoot it anyway and we'll fix it. It's a very easy cleanup in post. In post, you could clean that up nowadays for cheap. Nowadays. Not then, though. The other thing about this guy that's the ghost guy, right? The phaser, it was in, there was like indentation in his chest. Like it was,

and that to me also made me go like, what? Did someone punch him with like a, what's, what's going on here? Because that was really weird. I think if you get shot with a phaser, it causes a phaser burn, but it doesn't indent your chest like that. And so I didn't understand what was happening. I said, wait a minute, is that a, is that, was there a tube that connected in there? Like, is he, is he a Gemadar? Is he some other alien? I don't know what was happening. It wasn't clear if he was in Odo's mind or if he was physically. Physically there. I think it could have been clearer if photographed it in a way that you were clear. Oh, this is. in Odo's head.

This isn't in the physical world. But this should have been established with the first guy he saw. Yeah. Right. And it was not clear. No, and you had to think about it a little bit, which is fine, but assuming this person

in retrospect was one of the people that was murdered in the trio. But then why not have the trio? Right. You guys are the trio. See, that's the confusing part is you guys are the stand-ins for those.

Right. So I'm not. My guess is he bumped into the ghost that he was representing, correct? Because isn't he in the body of one of the... Yeah, but see, we're having to have a whole conversation about it. Yeah. I mean, the other way that you could have made this clearer is if the camera was walking with Odo and suddenly Odo jumps or bumps into a guy and it spins around and you see the guy is nose to nose and Odo starts to scream.

or something, and then you cut back wide to a full shot of... And he's gone? He's by himself screaming, you know? Right. Yes, yes. You overlap that. Okay. Oh, like he did with the blood on his hands later in the episode.

Yeah, like everybody looked. Although that was, yeah. And if the question from Cisco is Odo, what just happened? And he's like, uh, I don't know. I thought I saw someone or, you know, it just wasn't clear whether that was a real person or not. And if Odo is in the body of one of the people that is about to get shot, then he wouldn't be seeing himself.

Yeah. A lot of questions could have been answered by the way it was shot. By the way it was shot. I agree. Well, at the end of this scene, these guards come up and they grab Dax. They say, you know, you're coming with us. Garrick offers them two strips of latinum, tries to bribe them. and the soldier looks up at Duccott, who's watching them.

You know, he's tempted for a second, sees Duccott. Then he hits Garrick, knocks him down hard into some boxes or something. Classic. Right. Totally. You know, there's always boxes in the Bajoran. To get points with Ducat. He did it to get points with Ducat.

Of course. Of course he did. And then they take Dax. She's been selected, they say. So off they go. I'll be all right. Yeah, Dax is like, I'll be. be fine. I'll be all right.

Holy now. Oh, well, yeah. You're very brave. Cisco tries to run. Yeah, well, because we don't know what, well, we don't know what you're being selected for. So. I would have a good fighter and stuff too. Yeah. So. Yeah. We go to the surgery scene and another nice shot by Lavar here kind of wrapping around to reveal, starts down low and then rises up and reveals Garrick's nose is bleeding. So in real life, from the dream or from this other dimension or whatever, his nose is. nose is bleeding in the surgery center there. In real time.

Yeah. Which is kind of nightmare on Elm Street-ish in a way because people are unconscious and then things happen and you'll see things happening to them while they're unconscious too. So very horror movie. Favorite horror movies. Oh, it's a great series. It really is. Great franchise.

Oh, the first one. Holy. So good. I got the song memorized. You know what's crazy? Robert England, who plays. the main, you know, bad guy, bad guy. In person, the nicest guy you could possibly ever come across.

This guy is like in person, a beam of sunshine is what he is. So anyway, it's so funny that he plays that guy. Anyway, go ahead, Rob. Well, after our commercial break, we come back to surgery. Bashir says maybe this is psychosomatic, what's happening. Which is like, what? Yeah. So somatic.

He's not out. He's in a coma. Yeah. That's funny. He does say that if he's experiencing. It sounded stupid. Yeah. But he says if he's experiencing something in this state that severe enough that he could hurt himself, like his body could respond.

You know, he could stop his heart or break a blood vessel in his brain. And Wharf again says, what is causing all this, doctor? And Bashir says, at the risk of repeating myself, I just don't know. So again, it's all too casual. Why isn't there some urgency around we need to figure? figure out what this is. I agree. I agree.

It was. Thank you. Yeah. It seems like a non-ending at that scene. Well, yeah. Still, I don't know again. It seems like our gang has the stomach flu. You know what it?

It's just so casual. It's like, yeah, well, we'll figure it out. Yeah. Well, we go back to the ghetto and to this other dimension. Yes. They don't know why Dax has been taken. They decide to try and figure out whose bodies they're in. And Garrick mentions he's got this secret Cardassian

security code and he pickpocketed the soldier so he's got a Cardassian device. He's a pickpocket. So many talents. I believe that and I love that that happened. He pickpocketed him as he's being punched? How did that even happen? That's talent. Well he did

offer the latinum. He got up close. Oh, is that where it happened? Yeah. I think it's because he's had practice. Probably. In these situations, yes. Yeah. Well, he takes this device. He scans Cisco, uses his code. He says, Cisco is an electronics engineer named Ishan Che scans himself.

He says, I'm an artist named Julian Guetta. Jiller. Giller, Giller. Giller. Giller. Jiller. Yes, he said Julian. Jiller, Gweter.

Jilar, probably, or Jler. Yeah. And then he scans Odo, but Odo jumps right in. He says, I know who I am. Yeah. I'm a bookkeeper with a family. and my name is Timor Landi, and they ask him,

how do you know this? Which I've been wondering this whole episode. Like, he knows more than he's saying. Which is weird. Yeah. Yeah. How do you know this? But we don't get an answer because Quark arrives

and makes an offer for them to work in his bar. And he's like mean quirk. I don't know. Was he mean? He just seemed like very matter of fact-ish. I don't know if he was that mean. They're like slaves to him. Yeah.

respect or regard for them to me that's mean well he says 12 hours of work two five minute breaks and one strip of latiname each so that's mean is it mean how much is minimum wage could you imagine if we were on the set for 12 hours working and we only got one dollar one dollar and one strip latin minutes of a break two times in 12 hours not good what's cork munching on when he comes over he's like she's snacking while he's talking. I love it. It's awesome. Yeah, I think,

corn nuts. I'm going to say corn nuts. Lava is really, Lavaar is really good at giving you an activity. Ah, the business. Okay. Yes. Because it does help you act. It does.

I agree. It's whatever it is. Like when you see, like Laura Linney will be putting dishes away or something. And you know she created that action for herself because he's a stage actress too. And so those kinds of things, I think lend whatever it is that's being filmed, whether it's super low budget or high budget. It just brings you into the scene like it's a real place to have a real activity. The king of that on Voyager was Bopacardo, because as the doctor, he could walk around and

pick up all these things and have business. And for us on the bridge, we couldn't go anywhere and have business. We're in one spot. We can't pick anything up. It's all flat, the console, right? Robbie. So that was the hardest thing being on the bridge, is giving ourselves business of pushing a couple of buttons to look realistic.

It's the best way. Same. Same. Yeah. Right? That's it. It's a blessing when you have something you're pretending to look at on the monitor. Anything.

Well, Quark offers them a job. Cleaning. Yeah. Cleaning and off they go. We cut to DuCott's office where Dax has been taken. She says her name is Lita. Very clever, Terry. Thank you.

Thank you. That wasn't my doing, but I think that was clever. It was. But Dax is very scared. I thought your scenes with Ducotte were really good, by the way. Thank you. It's really good work. Well, I thought, I think what my motivation of being scared was just being afraid that he might rape me.

Right. You know. But you know the other thing that happened that you didn't expect to happen is when you said Lita, it's almost like you took on the persona of Lita. of being a little bit more soft-spoken. And so your fear of being possibly sexually assaulted became leader of the character for me. And you said that. So I was like, oh, my God, this is so meta.

So I was kind of flipping out a little bit. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. That was great. Well, Ducotte says, he reveals, I'm not here to abuse you. I'm not as bad as everybody says. I just want a friend.

Right. I'm lonely. And he says, you know, I'm a complicated man. And Dax responds at the end. She goes, you know, you're a lot different than I imagined. And I thought this was great. I thought it was good for his character. It was great work on your side.

I thought it was, these scenes were really good. Yeah. When we toasted, it was like I'd relax some. Yeah. Yeah. You had an arc. You had a real arc in the scene. I mean, this is a great example of what I was talking about with Odo.

You started out playing scared and apprehensive and really nervous. And then you got to a play. of more confidence. And so it gave your character a journey, whereas I felt that journey was missing for Odo a bit in this episode, even though the work of the shame and the guilt and all that was great work, but it didn't have the art. Yes.

Yeah. Well, for me, this really was a satisfying scene because it tracked prior episodes of DS9 when we realized that Descartes has a daughter who's half Bajoran and half Cardassian. Right. And he misses that interaction. Yeah, this is his regular thing.

He finds, he picks a random gal. And maybe they don't work out. Then they sent back to the minds of Maria or whatever. And then they pick another one. But eventually he bonded with the woman who became the mother of his child. And so now we have this fill-in of backstory, which was very satisfying to see. So I love the fact that it tracked and something that I'm so jealous because on Voyager, nothing tracked.

So to see something tracked this far forward. is like, oh, thank goodness. So I... Yeah, connecting the episode. Yes, connecting the episode. Yes, yes. Great. Well, we go to Quarks next.

It's after hours. Our gang is cleaning up these trays of glasses and dishes. And Garrick mentions he never knew how the cleaning was so hard. And, yeah, Cisco's like, everything's tidy when someone else is doing with cleaning. It's true. Yeah. Is it not true? He does mention he thinks Bajorans are much better suited for this kind of work, which I thought was just rude.

Very, very specious of him. Yes. And Cisco says, great, I'll be sure to mention that to Kira when we get back, which made me laugh. Odo's very nervous, though, cleaning up here. He does see three Bajorans with chest wounds walking along the promenade, and he panics. He shares that he knew all these names. He finally shares what they asked him in the last scene. How do you know all this?

He says, well, I knew from security files that those three that just walked by were publicly executed. Yeah. And Cisco says, well, we better find a way out of here before. Yeah. Ducock gets us then. Yeah. Bum, bum, bum. It's also odd that Odo doesn't come clean right at the beginning.

His character would be like, guys, this is what happened, you know? And he's keeping everything in for this entire episode. We're like, what's happening? It's so opposite of who we know Odo to be. Yeah. But he shares this, so now they're kind of up to date with who they are, what the stakes are, and they got to get out of here before they get executed, because they are the three people that were executed in the security files.

A little later on, Thrax is asking Quark about a smuggler named Lovara, and Thrax says the obsidian order has been tracking this guy, this captain. We've been tracking him and his associates, and Quark finally spills the truth that he offered quark some miragi crystals. Quirk said, I refuse them. And Thrax says, well, you better be telling the truth. And he leaves. This is when Garrick uses his device to look at some records and says Odo was a constable seven years ago, not Thrax.

This is a weird. So this is the first time we're starting to go, wait a minute, Odo's not completely telling the truth. Right. Thrax was not the constable in this timeline. Right. So Garik's starting to put that together. It's like his ego is trying to hide what happened. Yeah.

Yeah. Cisco says, you know what, Kira shared a signal with me that the resistance used to call for help. So let's get out of here and they'll go do that after they finish a quarks. They'll call for some backup and that'll get them out. From the Bajoran sector. Yeah, from the Bajoran. They'll use Kira's secret, super secret code, which is about to come up in a minute. That he has memorized. Yes, that he's memorized. And I was like, when he's describing this, I'm like, that's got to be complicated. Well, we cut to the next scene there at the, I guess, the food station. And he takes a vase. He takes this vase. He stops. And he just turns it over.

Oh, yes. Then he goes in the soup kitchen, goes to sit down. And that's the signal. That was so funny. Because when he did that, I thought, was that just, he just corrected how maybe they had it the wrong way? What is he doing? I did not put that together at all. Well, because we expected.

something more complex, right? Something a little bit more like... No, but I mean, even when the guy came to the table, I didn't go, oh, that's what happened. No, I thought it was just kind of like trying to fit in and shopping and looking and then putting it down. I didn't even know that was the code. So I know, right? I thought he had the vase in the wrong way. Oh, it's not a vase.

It's a... I immediately went. You knew that was the... That's the secret signal flipping over a vase? I mean, even Odo or Garrick is like, that's ridiculous. You just turn over the vase and the resistance. appears and Odo says, yeah, simple and effective. Oh, apparently I missed that sentence.

There you go. Oh, my word. Yes, and we see Ducott enter the ghetto here early in the scene, followed by Dax. And so Cisco at least knows that Dax is okay. This is where Odo starts to drink his soup, but his hands are covered in blood. And he drops the spoon, drops the soup. Sorry, guys. I hated to pick.

but did that register as blood to you guys? Because to me, it looked like butterscotch sauce or something. It wasn't really that blood looking. Strawberry jam. Strawberry jam, something. I was like, what? You can't find real red blood? No, I just got that it was blood.

Yeah. I did after the second watch viewing, the first few ones. I thought it was soup. I thought it was his. Oh, that he made soup there. Tomato soup on his hands. Yeah. But it did when it disappeared, at least that was clear. I was like, oh, he's having a hallucination.

Yeah. So why? Unlike the first one. Yes. Yes, why wasn't that clear every single time? Yeah, it wasn't consistent. No. He has this hallucination, but he covers, he lies.

He says, oh, I just dropped my spoon, sorry. Right. I don't understand why they don't comment yet. And that should have happened quicker to believe that he dropped a spoon because it was a terrible cover, and the whole him thinking of the lie took too long. It should have been immediate. He's so suspicious. I don't know why people aren't going.

going, hold on, stop everything. Odo, what the heck is going on? It's too obvious. Yeah. And he's such a nervous wreck. A nervous wreck. He's a disaster. So not himself.

So. Yeah. Well, there's no time for them to question Odo about why he's so freaked out because Belar, this resistance fighter, arrives and asks, you know, I saw you flip that vase over. What do you need? Very handsome resistance fighter. Very handsome. Of course.

Heroic. I like how you always notice. that, Garrett. I noticed the handsomeness. God was like paying attention. Yes. Garrett, I think everyone is handsome in their own way. Oh. Okay. It's true. Right. It's true. Everyone has a level of handsomers. Well, after modeling, you see beautiful people that are not nice people and you go, oh, yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And the truth is what's inside. It's way more important. Of course. Yeah, inner beauty is the true beauty. You can see that.

Yes. So then you start to see people in the beauty that they hold all in their own, not because they're photogenic, not because they have straight teeth or great hair. Maybe Belar was a photogenic Bajoran. He couldn't help it. But he wasn't, yeah, he couldn't help it. But he wasn't super, he was kind of a jerk. Maybe he was.

He could have been a Bajoran model. before becoming a member of the resistance as well. And then he just got to hoity tooty and then he turned into a pain in the ass. He's a pain in the ass. Yeah. Well, this meeting is basically Cisco saying, we need to get off the station. And Balar is like, why? And he says, well, you know, so Balar starts running through things.

He says, we're not just a commuter service. If it's a dispute over chemicals or women or smuggling, we're not going to help you. But if you've killed one of the spoonheads and is this the first? time that we've heard. I've never heard that before. Derogatory way of calling a Cardassian. Yeah, because I haven't heard it. I don't, I don't remember that at all. But it's that weird in the center of their forehead, right?

Which looks like a spoon. So they are spoonheads. And it's just, oh my goodness. Just why did it take so long for that? For someone to say that. Yeah. Yeah. It took for this, it took till season five for someone to say. I feel like Kira would use that. She would have said. Oh, she's mad. She made it up. Yeah. Kara made it up. She probably did.

Yeah, let's give her credit. Yeah. Garrick is very insulted by that. Garrick gets really offended by that. He doesn't like it. Which I thought was funny. It was. And Cisco's like, not now.

Not now. Don't really calm down. But before they can get insulted and get into a fight about the term spoonheads, there's an explosion and Duccott and Dax are injured. Yeah. And this explosion and our, our heroes go to help. They're trying to help Dachs. They're trying to help Ducott.

They're seeing if they're obese. okay and that's when Odo says we have to leave, we should leave, we should not be here. Yeah, and he's right because they get arrested. Well, he yells. He says, Captain, no, because as Cisco's running towards, he knows the case of what happened in the real time, which is they ran to go help. Which it would have been helpful if he shared with all of them. Yes.

If he had been, you know, honest up front. But he didn't. We wouldn't be in this puzzle. Because he's tortured over this big regret. Yep. Well, we cut to a holding cell. The cells are very crowded and noisy. It looked like the Humane Society to me. Kind of did. Yeah. Look like everybody's crowded in these cells. Or a raid bust. Yes, exactly. Right? Yeah, because it was a lot of people. Garrick is very insulted that he doesn't have a nicer cell. And this is when Thrax enters

informs some of the Kardashians of their sentences. They're pretty light sentences. And then he comes to our gang and he shares the evidence. And it seems logical that, you know, he's got the evidence that they did this. They tried to assassinate Dukot. Yeah. And Odo gets really passionate here. He argues it's all circumstantial. Everything that you're saying is evidence is circumstantial.

That's not what happened. It's not true. And Thrax says, you'll be given your final sentence just before the council meets this afternoon, which reminded me that Kardashians decide the outcome and then have a trial. Yes. Yes, yes, I forgot about that, too. Yes. That's so crazy.

I was a little confused. I thought all of those people were rounded up for the bombing, but that's not true. They were for other reasons as well. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess he was giving them their sentences before their hearings started. Yes. He doesn't have the final sentence because they haven't gotten, yeah.

And one guy got lucky. Someone paid his bail or whatever. Someone got to leave, right? Odo begs in this scene. Just, you know, let me talk to you privately just for a minute. Please listen to me. And so we cut into DuCott's office and DuCott and Daxe are recovering. Dax is eating a lot.

You are eating. It looked like watermelon. That's what I thought. Was it watermelon? I don't remember, but I would guess it'd be more like strawberries or, I mean, strawberries seems like it makes more sense. But the way it was, it looked cute, it squares. Was it?

It looked like watermelon-esque, yeah. Okay. Well, maybe it was watermelon. Well, we lived in L.A., so we had that kind of fruit year-round. Right. But then when Descott picks one up and eats it himself, then it looks more like a chicken nugget. And I thought, oh, maybe it, but then I think it's. Well, there were different things on my plate.

There were different things. Yeah. It wasn't just the fruit. Yeah. I think it was watermelon, which would be a very smart choice. It is. You don't get that full on little bites of watermelon. No.

It's mostly water, so. No. And it's easy. did a chew and swallow quickly. Yes. Megan was watching saying maybe there was a big spit bucket next to her because honestly Robbie and I on Voyager, we all tried to eat nothing. But in this we were watching, Robbie and her were like, what the, she's just eating all this food.

She was shuffling it in. It's like, oh my God. Maybe it's post-traumatic bomb syndrome where you have to eat as well. That time I was working out like crazy. Oh, so the calories were fine. All the kickboxing and everything. Everything. Yeah. So, and then always trying to stay thin for the show. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sometimes you just don't eat anything if you know you have an eating. Well, I didn't. I tended to not eat anything at all the day I had an

eating scene. So that would be your food, basically. Yeah. That's, that's your lunch. Oh, my goodness. Smart. Well, because, yeah. Yeah. Well, my first job, I had to eat pancakes. And I was so excited because I was on a diet, but they had me eating pancakes. but they wanted me to lose weight. And I just, they were like, Terry, be careful. Did I listen? No. I was just, you know, 19 years old. It was like my first acting job.

I was so sick at the end of the day. Everybody should know that when you see the scene cut together, it looks like she just had that much food. But there were probably 10, 12 shots with multiple takes. And so she ate 10 times the amount that you used. that you see that you think I'm eating. Yes. Yeah.

Or more 20 times. Yeah. A lot more food than, because it's take after take after take. Right. So you didn't need a spit bucket if you didn't eat it. But it looks better too when you're doing that. Well, there might have been, but I talk too. So I don't think I really had the chance to put it in my mouth and spit it out. Well, it depends.

Yeah. In that shot, though, Robbie, it kind of bummed me out that it was from that angle because all the makeup from her wounds from the bombing were on the left side of her face. And the right side is the side that's showcased as she's eating. It's like, show some of the residual, because you were injured during the bombing, okay? And that's one of the complaints I was reading some backstory about this episode that you had back then when you were interviewed about this episode. You said they did all this amazing makeup work showing me damage because Dax is always pristine and perfect, practically, every episode. So the show disheveledness and any funky, cool, you know, makeup.

Something real is rare and that you complained about the fact that it was not showcased that well on camera, but just the way that things were blocked. Yeah, and it's interesting. I mean, maybe you couldn't have moved where Duquots. Was he sitting at a desk or something? He was in the background, like, was he sitting, Robbie? Yeah. I don't remember if he was sitting.

He was being treated by a Cardassian woman, right? And then she walks out. So why not put me on the other side of the room so that you would have gotten me? Great. You could have seen all that. Yes. Yeah. Ducaut does share in this scene that this was the fourth assassination attempt.

And he kind of softens in this scene and shares his feelings. And it seems like you two are really becoming friends. Like he wanted when suddenly Dax takes a swing in him, knocks him out. Very nice move, by the way. Double-handed Captain Kirk style from TOS is what happened. Very good. very smooth combat fighting there. Well directed.

Yes. And then she jumps over to, well, you knock him out and then you say, he says, my heart is too big. That's when you hit him. And then you say, and so is your ego. Yeah, you're so your ego. Very funny. Then I go right to the computer. Right to the computer.

And while she's working on the computer, we go back to the holding cell. Garrick is thinking of ways to save himself, basically. Cisco wants to know about Thrax. He says, you know, Odo should be the security chief right now in this timeline. He also mentions that Thrax seems different than the other Cardassians, like softer or something. But Odo doesn't know anything. Says he doesn't know anything. I've made a note, um, sure.

No. I don't believe you, Odo. Oh, gosh. I don't know why they believe him either. He's so obviously got deep, dark secrets here. Yes. And this is when Dax breaks through the wall, basically. With some explosives.

That was so great. Like I had a laser gun. Yeah. But the wall looked like it was made out of paper mache is what it seemed like. It didn't seem like it was even that well constructed the way the whole was blowing. Very strong paper. It was super strong. Very strong.

Jail wallpaper is what it was. Yeah. But you got through it, though. It was. Yeah. What's odd, though, is it looks metal. Does it look not all to you? Well, it looks substantial until the actual hole in the wall.

It looks like paper mache. I didn't get that, though. I was just... No? Well, I like how you blow open the hole and then you stick your head into the hole and you go, miss me? Very cute. There's a lot of lighthearted lines for you in this episode.

But I think it was better written than some of the other episodes where my character, out of character, out of character, says something way too lighthearted. And it's not funny. And that feel, it's like immature. More comments. Yes, this, who wrote this, Michael Taylor, I think if he could write those comments for my character all the time. You're right.

He nails it. So he got you. He got Dax. He understood how to write Dax. Yes. We cut to a corridor. They're heading to Ducotte's shuttle when some soldiers surprised them. There's a big fight.

Everybody's got a part, a piece of the fight going on. Cisco's fighting Thrax here when suddenly Thrax morphs into a changeling. Oh, my God. I was like, up through the ceiling. That was crazy, right? Yeah, yeah. And then I was thinking, oh, well, they meld, right?

So is that why Odo has kind of known what's going on the whole time? I think they're seeing Thrax as Odo. Like, like. Everyone seeing them as majorans, and they're seeing Odo. I didn't get that. Because he was really the station's security supervisor then. Thank you. He was Thrax at the time.

Yes, he was Thrax. Oh, my God, I did not get that. In real time, he was Thrax. In their story, Thrax is the predecessor. Yes, he's a predecessor. But the way Cisco sees him turning into a changeling, basically he's seeing through Odo's lie is what it is. Is that what you're seeing, Robbie?

That's what I'm, okay. Oh, my God. I did not get that symbolism. I thought it was an actual changeling from the other. I don't think. No. Gosh. Okay.

Because this is all, this whole dimension is in their minds. It is in their minds. It's through through the connection that, that Odo makes. Okay. Even more importantly, why they should have been more clear about it being just in Odo's head. Right. Because otherwise it gets convoluted.

What do you want me to see? Isn't that part of storytelling? Like in a video game, you learn how to. It teaches you how to play it. This should be teaching us how to see them. There have to be some rules to this dimension. Thank you for articulating that for me. They kept changing the rules.

Yeah. Exactly. But I almost feel like the changing the rules constantly was to create that sort of like, what's happening on purpose? It was sort of engineered that way. But it feels like cheating. When you're playing a video game and the rules keep changing, you're like, wait. No, you wouldn't like that game.

Okay. That's not playing fair. So here's a question. So we should be playing fair too. Yes. Unless there's a deliberate red herring, which is not this kind of story. You're not saying that. No.

So after the whole changeling effect, the vis effect for that, the gang goes over to Dax and picks Dax up, okay, off the, ground and they leave the scene. But the next scene is that- After it got hit with a phaser. Yes. Thank you. They leave the scene and they come back to the exact same juncture, basically.

And that to me was like, what is going? First it pulled me out. Then I realized, oh, no. Actually, that is kind of brilliant because it's sort of, it gives me those shades of a la moraine, one, two, three, where nothing is making sense. You see what I'm saying? I rewound it and watched it. again because I thought, I was like, why are they coming around?

How did that happen? They're going in circles right now. They just cleaned up the set a little bit when they came back around. And it was right after them running out of that scene. Does that make sense? Robby's stuff. They ran out and they came around the same corner again in the next scene within a millisecond. So that made me like, what?

Initially, first watched, it bothered me. Second watch, I said, okay, this sort of contributes to the chaos of everything of being in his mind, I suppose. I think it was simply that they only had the one set built. and honestly I'm trying to sign more meaning to it I'm sorry it's not even

because that's why it was a jump cut there was no morphing or revealing there was no other set to use that would be that to me is the director and the DP's responsibility to make them

if you only have one set but you're trying to play it as two different places you did a little differently lighted a little differently so did it pull you out as well then is what you're saying I'm so used to Star Trek reuse

sets like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't pull it out. It just, it's a tell. Okay. It's a tell. Yeah. It's a tell of the budget.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did the, I directed the season finale, season three finale of Resident Alien. And they were supposed to be on this alien space station. And we literally had three hallways for the whole episode that they're supposed to be running all over this giant.

And it was. just at one end of the hallway, it went either, there was a wall and you could go right or left. Oh, so it was the two end. It was a T intersection at one end. And at the other end, it was, it took a right turn down a short hallway to another T. That was it. I had one turn, two T intersections, and I had to make it look like they were running all over. So you, you know, sometimes you had to use the camera on the ground, sometimes you'd use a long lens, you'd change the lighting, you'd, you know, That's a lot of work. It was trying to puzzle it together.

Yes, yes, yes. But we had so little, much less than Star Trek. But you have to think ahead like playing chess. Yes. Yes. Okay, back to the story. So as they run around to this, another, the same part of the set, but redressed a little bit, cleaned up a little bit.

Dax says, here it is. They're at the airlock door. As they step inside, they're now back into the cell again. And they haven't gone to where they thought they were going. So now we're all watching going, what is happening? This is another one of the rules that I wish they had explained earlier that we're going to be in a world where we're jumping around a bit. Yes. And if Cisco and everybody would.

They should have done something like that sooner. Earlier, if they'd done it a couple times and Cisco and Garrick had mentioned what's happening, how is this happening? Yes. And then later we learn, oh, it's because of Odo's memories. This is all in his head sort of. Yes. That would have made it better in my book. I hear you.

As they're in the cell, a Cadassian guard soldier comes up and tells them, we have the word, your execution has been scheduled for 1900. Two hours from now. Bum, bum, bum. Two hours they're going to be executed. Yeah, and he was just like a little too happy about that. He enjoyed that comment. We come back from a commercial break. Odo is panicking now.

Cisco finally is like, Odo, tell us the truth. I wish he had said that in the teaser scene, but Odo finally spills the beans. He knows the names. and the history of all of this. And that's when Thrax arrives and says Odo wants to see him. You want to talk to me, right? Yeah. So they go.

Odo's trying to convince Thrax in the security office that they're innocent. And he says the facts show that we're innocent if you just look at the facts, really look at it. And he's very like very personally invested. So honestly at this point I kind of pieced it all together that Odo is reliving his. his own story, basically. And he's telling himself, like, I should have looked at the facts. Right. He's trying to convince Thrax of this.

And Thrax says, I'm just doing my job. And Odo says, you know, your job is to find the truth, not to get a conviction, which I thought was an important distinction. Yeah, that was. Yeah. And Odo spills the truth. And the story. Yeah.

He says, we are from the future. And I can't let this happen again, basically. and Thrax says, well, there's nothing for me to do about it. What are you going to do about it? And we make another jump. We flash to the execution. Now we're up in the promenade. Before you go on, I do like when Odo says, then what are you going to do about it?

And Thrax says, what am I supposed to do? Nothing more, nothing. Last, the question is, what are you going to do, Odo? So he says his name at that point, and it's kind of chilling. Yes, and that was freaky. Yeah, it's very freaky. Yes. And that's when he flashes up to the promenade.

The execution's about to happen. Right. Odo protests here and Dukot and Thrax, you know, he goes over, tries to stop it. Dukot and Thrax say that this has already happened. So we're in this sort of weird dream world. Totally. They're aware that this is kind of a dream and it's already happened. Right.

And they're preparing to shoot the three Bajorans when Odo hits one of the soldiers. And we flash to a new POV where our gang sees Odo is the constable now. Correct. And is this also when our gang goes back to Starfleet uniforms? Yes, I think so. Yep, they go back. So now we're kind of snapping back to our reality watching this historical event. And we see that Odo was the constable, not Thrax.

Right. So now Odo's right there by the execution. It happens. And then they sort of fade away in this timeline. And Odo admits the truth. He says he was the constable when this execution happened. He ordered it. he says I was wrong. There was another bombing shortly after the execution, but he says I was so

consumed with law and order that I didn't see the truth. I didn't see what was really right in front of me, and that's when they fade out as well. Yeah, we disappear. Yeah. I thought this was a great performance by Renee, honestly. As many criticisms as I have of the script and the structure and the rules in this world. René did such a beautiful job, especially in this big model. Yeah. Renee was an 11 for the show. Heartbreaking. Yeah, heartbreaking. They fade away in this timeline and we cut to the surgery room and everyone's waking up. They all wake up and Bashir says, well, whatever you all have been through, it has taken its toll. And they're back to reality and we cut to the security office and Bashir's explaining that he now understands what happened. Finally, he didn't understand

the whole episode. He kept saying, I don't know. I don't know what's happening. But now he's figured it out that it was basically a version of the Great Link, that even though Odo is a solid now, he's not 100% solid. He still has some of his changeling enzymes.

DNA. And the plasma storm forced him to reach out. He tried to reach out to the Great Link when this was happening. He was so worried and upset by it all and feeling guilty about it. He reached out to the Great Link, but when the plasma storm hit, he reached out to the only ones that were there, and that was Cisco

and the gang. So he basically had a great link with them. With our gang. Oh, our gang. That's what it was. Kira comes in. Kira does come in. Yeah. I didn't know. What did you read on her face when she came in there? I couldn't, I wasn't sure what I was reading it because she's not, she doesn't say anything for a second. And then, you know. Well, it's great because she's not sure what she's thinking. Yeah. That's true.

still trying to put it together in her brain. And she even says, it's been two days, and I still don't know what to think. So I think it's wonderful. I think she did a wonderful job of standing in that truth of the not knowing how to feel about it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she read the whole report. She knows.

She's stunned. She doesn't know what to say. And really, this is kind of a bookend episode to the second season episode, Necessary Evil, when they were on Terek Nore for the first time because in that episode it is Kira who is hiding what she did during the occupation. She has a secret that she's hiding from Odo

and the very last scene of that episode is just the two of them and the same confrontation. Now it's flipped. Same thing here. Same thing here, but it's actually it's Odo that's hidden something from Kira. And so it's a perfect bookend episode to that episode from season two

which is very impressive to me that they can call back to that. And she also reveals in this, you know, I made mistakes too. Yeah. Right before she says, but you have to tell me, was that the only time? And I love that he's still honest and says, I'm not sure. Yeah, I hope so. And he says, I hope so, which is the better button, right?

I hope so. Yes, yes. Oh, well, he said both. Yeah, he said, I just missed the hope so. Mm-hmm. Great last sentence. Great button to the show. Yes.

Yeah. Okay, well, let's talk about the theme, a lesson, the moral of this episode. Robbie, what is yours? I wrote down, being too focused on being right may prevent you from seeing the truth. Good one. Kind of Odo's lesson of so focused on law and order that he didn't really see the justice. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. And Terry, what is yours? Look at your part in your regrets. Let go of your ego for real growth. Oh. Hmm. Sort of what you're saying, but not as eloquent. I have kind of Robbies as well. I don't know. I mean, part of me is one of, I have multiple lessons. I think the first lesson is moderation is key because of his excessive obsession with the rules and justice he saw, he missed something, right? So moderation that don't become too overly obsessed with anything, really, is one lesson. The truth always comes out. the end and honesty is the best policy. Our Patreon poll winner for the theme moral of this episode

is submitted by Marty D. I believed justice was more important than compassion, but it was justice without compassion, and that's no justice at all. A quote from Odo. Oh, that's great. Great quote. That's it. We've come to the end of our recap and discussion of the episode Things Pass. Thank you, everyone for tuning in. Join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing the episode The Ascent with Armin. And we want to thank Terry for joining us on this one for sure. Thank you, Tare Fair. Oh, my goodness. Thank you guys. Oh, so much fun. Yes, it is. For a little bit more tear fare and a little bit more bonus episode, please, for all the Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. For everyone else, we'll see you next time. Bye.