The Delta Flyers - Through The Looking Glass

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Through the Looking Glass, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell.Through the Looking Glass: Sisko goes undercover in the Mirror Universe in hopes of persuading his dead counterpart's wife, a scientist, to join the Terran rebels.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Nicole Toma, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Randy Hawke, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, & Sean T.Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Chris Garis, Cindy Woodford, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, & Tamara EvansAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Carmen Puente-Garza, Eddie Dawson, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Karen Galleski, Jeremy Conoley-Mayes, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Helen Brownrigg, Nancy Janda, Lindsay Bundy, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, & Natalie SwainThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark Dax and their good friends, Tom and Harry, as they make their way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong. Check us out on Patreon for the full version of this podcast, complete with all kinds of bonus. That means extra material. So check us out at patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and get all that bonus slash extra material. Come on.

Yeah. I'm going to start saying it that way too. Bonus. That means extra material. I'm so glad you described what that meant. Yeah, just in case people don't know. You know, fancy, bonus is a fancy word. And what does extra mean?

It means bonus. It's like a loop. It's a science fiction loop. We're stack on it. Oh, my goodness. All right. Well, how's everyone doing today? Hanging in there?

Good. Pretty good. We're having a little heat wave in Santa Fe. So that's kind of nice. Yeah. Oh, good for you. Well, not good for the environment. Great for us.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because Santa Fe can get very cold. Yeah, single digits. Right? Yeah.

Single digits. Already had them. Oh, yeah. I'd like to get some snow, though. Yeah? For that, I really envy you, Robbie. Yes. Have you not had snow this season?

Is that what you're saying? We had it the first week in November. Yeah, you had a cold blast early on. Yeah, really early on. I actually had to go through that blizzard in my little Prius to get to the airport in Albuquerque, which was an ice. hour drive, which was a really scary drive. I bet it was. Really scary. I remember seeing that was on the news. Like 18 wheelers were blown off

the road. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. It was really bad. And now you can go swimming. And now I can go swimming if I had a pool. And when I think about it. I can't have one of my neighborhood. They won't let us build them. Right. They won't? No. But my property wouldn't be right for that anyway. It'd have to be in the front yard. And it would have to be in the front yard. And it would be so weird. Yeah. Wouldn't it be weird? Yeah, that would be super bizarre.

But I'm going back to the whole Blizzard thing because it's true. When you talk about cars that are really going to get you through Blizzard, you don't think Prius. You don't. That's not the Blizzard rated vehicle. And so you must have, boy, that must have been a rough time. I was really grateful for growing up in Iowa and having that experience of front wheel drive, right? Oh, so you do know. I know how to do it.

Okay. But, you know. Not preferred. Not preferred. Like, you know, when your ass gets tense when you're driving and you're stressed and you don't even really realize it until you stop driving? And then it's like, oh, my God, I'm cramping because my muscles are like, go away. It was so crazy. I'm butt cramping.

Ladies and gentlemen, did you think about, did anyone think about butt cramping before they started listening to this podcast? Probably not. But now you do. Well, mostly the right side because you're kind of like with the two petals, you know. Interesting. Let's get specific. Right. But it's the gas pedal side of your butt.

Yes, exactly. Yes. Because it's sort of like. I'm actually doing it right now. I'm squeezing my right butt cheek. Just to test it out. And you're right. Yes.

I'm right. Yes. Okay. Let's say happy birthday to some people. Let's do. Let's do that. Okay. Our first birthday is to Chris Knapp on March,

24th, happy birthday, Chris. Happy birthday, Chris. Happy birthday, Chris. And next up, happy birthday to Helen Brownrigg on March 28th. Happy birthday, Helen. Happy birthday, Helen. Happy birthday, Helen. And we have a very happy belated birthday to Nick Cook West, March 18th.

Happy birthday, Nick. We're so glad that you're a. part of the Delta Flyers family. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We also need to welcome a brand new profit, and that would be none other. Then Sandra Stengel, welcome to the profit level. Thank you so much.

Welcome, Sandra. I hope you enjoy it. Welcome, Sandra. Great to have you as a prophet. Oh, I love how Terry sang it because I got her in that mode. She started singing it. Okay. Let's just sing the entire recap.

We can do it. too. Okay. We can do a musical recap. I'm excited for this. And go, Garrett. It's time for a poetry synopsis, starting with Robbie. Okay, poetry time. I just have to say there's a parental advisory warning on this poem. So anybody out there with young children, wow, at least skip ahead. Really? Not that. It's not that. It's not, that big of an advisory. PG-13 or R? I'm just putting it out there, so I'm, I'm PG, not even, yeah.

Okay, but, all right. Okay, let's see what happens. Here we go. My poetry synopsis or through the looking glass. Cisco and Smiley travel through the looking glass. Over there, Kira gets a whole lot of ass. Cisco saves the love of his life, who's not actually his wife? Over there with Dax, I guess Cisco gets a hall pass.

oh my god that was great bam bam bam okay all right parental advisory warning warning off kira was getting a whole lot of everywhere she turned she had guys here girls there everybody was a target how about Cisco what the heck is that like

me and Nana and well here I'm sorry Right, Kira and... Yeah. Yes. Exactly. And Jennifer. Well.

There was a lot of sexy time going on over there. A lot. A lot. I need to just... I was shocked, I got to say, when Cisco goes, yeah, I guess it'll just have to wait or whatever. Yeah. I was like, are you kidding me? You are not going there.

Dude. But there are. I was. But there you were. Oh, we'll talk about it. There I was. I can't wait. I just want to read a little quote from Avery Brooks before we go on.

Where is that wonderful quote? Avery Brooks was especially happy when he read the teleplay for this episode because in it, Cisco has sex for the first time since the show began. And not once, but twice, first with Jedziadax and then with Kieran Reese. So the actor Avery Brooks was. very happy that what was going on in the 90s a lot a lot

it was a lot a lot big thing for my character yes I mean I want to hear your haiku yeah it's nothing like Robbie's there's not there's no there's no ass anywhere hit me baby one more time okay here we go my IQ for through the looking glass

smiley steals Cisco Ben saves mirror Jennifer Rebels safe for now That was great I do need to read one other thing very quickly You should you should read Yeah I like reading

It's fundamental Reading is fundamental Well first of all Let's talk about the title of this I mean this episode takes its name From the 1871 Lewis Carroll book Through the Looking Glass Which is the sequel to Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

So that's a nice little thing there Lewis Carroll write a lot of these novels high on opium. Wasn't he? Is that correct? I think so. Which makes sense that this episode feels like it was written high on opium to me. Well, that's similar to the South Park guys, Matt and Trey. I think it could have gone further.

Right. But you guys have heard that, right? Yeah. Yes. That those guys experimented with different types of hallucinogenics to write South Park. Really? Yes. So it doesn't, yes.

So it doesn't shock me that Lewis Carroll was. I think he was, yeah, that's why all this crazy. People have been doing what we were doing long before. When we think it's a brand new idea, it's like now they've done that before. Ah, here we go. Nana Visitor hated the intendant's rubber figure-hugging outfit, later claiming it didn't breathe at all. Between takes, she had to stand in front of a large fan to prevent her from sweating as sweat tended to discolor the outfit. Oh, weird.

Also, imagine getting out of that to go to the bathroom. Oh, my word. That'd be like getting out of Jerry's costume. That's a whole lot of costume to get out of. Yeah, yeah. It looked like a wet suit almost. Yeah. It had that kind of like rubbery.

It looked like leather to me. It looked cool. Leathery rubbery, but it looked cool. I imagine that we couldn't have been fun with food either because if I was wearing it, it'd be like, that would be a very sparse week in the nutrition department. I mean, seriously, you saw her hip bones.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Nanah did talk about, because of course, we had another episode where this character was introduced, these characters, the mirror universe characters were introduced. Nana, if you recall, talked about that headband that she's wearing.

It's metal. What did she say? It's a hard. piece of metal. It looks like it. You knew it because when Cisco, pretending to be a mirror universe

kiss, Kisco. Not Cisco, Kisco. He's Kisco in this episode. He's kissing her. He actually inadvertently bumps that metal thing where it starts

coming down and he notices it as an actor and tries to smooth it out. He tries to like caress her hair and push it back at the same time. I'm like, oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah, that looked like a nightmare to wear. Definitely.

This episode written by Iris Stephen Bear and our good friend Robert Hewitt Wolf. Robert Hewitt is. The director, Vinrich Colby, also known as the Baron by the D-Space 9 cast and crew. The Baron. Did you call him the Baron as well yourself, Terry? I don't think I did. I think that was sort of like it's sort of the Baron's here. But then you'd go for a...

Then you'd go back to Rick. Yeah, because... Yeah, it just... It was his title, but we still called the Rick. Right. Yeah. Okay. Like, an announcement on set.

Like, no one walked up to Rick and go, Hey, Baron, okay, on this scene. Like, no one ever did that. That would feel weird. Yeah. I don't know. All right. Guest stars, Andrew Robinson as Garrick.

Yay. Alicia M. Bell is Jennifer. Yay. Oh, my God. Chickichick is Rom. Yeah, she finally she got a scene, right? I was so happy she was back, and she's so freaking beautiful. Yeah, she's good, she's beautiful.

Flawless skin. Isn't she? And a really kind person. She was really. Really? Off camera, she was super kind? Yeah, just what you would expect. I love that. Yeah, me too. Okay.

Max Grudenshick is Rom, of course, and Timoteo Russ says Tuva. Like, what? I was that amazing. Amazing. That was like so, I was just... Well, for Robbie and I, we were both like, what the? Do you remember this, Robbie? I remember when it happened. Yeah, I remember. But we don't remember. But putting it together and actually seeing it, we're like, oh, my God.

I never saw it. Yeah. But you do recall that he went and guest starred on the, on the... Yeah. Yeah, I do remember that. Okay. I don't remember talking to him. I mean, I don't. But, you know, when you think about it, how you work, when you come on and you're working and you got minds and then you're out. Yeah. Unless you're in that makeup trailer together or hanging out having coffee together. You're not going to talk to them.

No. Well, not you just say, hey, nice to meet you. But unless somebody introduces you. Tim is also, I wouldn't say a private person, but he doesn't, he's not like, yeah, he's typically kind of quiet unless you go over, unless someone goes over and engages him, he doesn't, he doesn't go work for. He's friendly, but he's not outgoing. Yeah, he's not exactly, exactly. We have John Patrick.

Hayden as the Cardassian overseer. He was great. Did you see Dennis Madelow? Dennis Madelon is the marauder. How could you not miss Dennis Madeline? Or the eye makeup. He's a little pirity on that one. And sadly, you know how when extras kind of take you out because you're like,

they don't look like they're in the scene. Like he was in this scene. God bless him. It was just like he was just standing there. Yeah. But not really listening to what was happening. Well, he was probably thinking about the stunts that we had to organize. Yeah.

Well, he looked excited to just be on camera. He was very excited. But it pulled me out because, of course, we all know it's Dennis Madelow. But that funky eye is literally, someone said, make him like a pirate with a patch, but don't put the patch on. And I was like, why are we looking at his weird eye right now? It kind of looked like they didn't finish his makeup. it did it looked like just a flap of latex yes yes you're right that wasn't glued on it was but did it pull you it pulled all of us out i think yeah you're like hey i don't even think

that's because we know dennis i think so like most people wouldn't they wouldn't you don't think anyone would think anyone would bat an eye at that i disagree i disagree if he was further in the background yeah he was pretty prominent yeah he was prominent it was prominent it was like a two shot yeah or three shot but anyway it was close enough a tour that him not being all in right and the makeup stood out to me yeah for sure okay well it's tricky with background performers because the directors cannot talk to background performers why not it's a rule what yeah it has to be the ad ad so depending on how the ad is with acting director and things like that.

The 80s sometimes just say, stand here and you're listening to... They don't really talk to them. So... Why is that a rule? Is that so that you have less to worry about as a director? Well, it keeps the unions don't want directors telling background people to act

because then you become an actor. Instead of background. Instead of just background. They're in SAG. They're already in SAG. And they are required to act, though. I think that's probably one of the hardest acting jobs ever. would be to be background, yeah, and listening to a conversation.

Yeah. You do need to have some direction about what you're thinking about because... The ADs can tell them whatever they want, but the director can't talk to them. Because if the director starts talking individually, like if the director goes over to Dennis or someone, if he was background, I think he probably was, if he was classified as a background actor, if the director talks to them specifically and not as a group, like, The director can say to the group, hey, everybody, I need more energy. Right.

But the AD has to go over to the individual person and say, hey, can you do this or that? Right. If the director does that, they become a principal. They get more money. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's wild.

Yeah. That would be a hard thing as a director. It's hard sometimes when you're directing and you see the background isn't quite on specifically to what you need for the scene, but you can't talk to them. So you have to go find the AD and tell them. It's a whole process, yeah. Game of telephone. Yeah, exactly. One more bit of trivia here.

The name of this episode through the looking glass was the last line that Major Kira spoke in the season two universe, mirror universe episode crossover. So when we introduced this mirror universe, the very final line that she, I think someone says like, where have you been? And she's like, through the looking glass. And that was the very end of that episode. And now we jump into this episode. It starts in the commander's office. Can you picture it? I can.

Amazing. They're in the commander's office, right? Like I almost saw it last night. All right. So Quark's in there. He's basically defending the voles that Morn has in a storeroom. I guess Morn collects voles. And they were painting numbers on their backs.

Odo finds this, realizes they're going to have vol fights. I didn't know volfights were a thing, but he thinks they're going to have volfights. Oh, they're terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. And they're bigger than our rats. Much bigger. Yeah.

It was like that. This is what's confusing because he says, Quark says, if you don't believe me, ask Chief O'Brien, when I came in, he and mourn were painting numbers on the vol's backs. Did you guys catch that? Yeah, I did. I did. I did. Oh, yeah. Interesting.

I don't know, maybe he liked chicken fights and there's no chicken fights, but there are voles. Maybe that's a clue that Chief O'Brien was the Mirror Universe hanging out. Oh. Maybe it was the mirror universe, Chief O'Brien. Oh, definitely. Where vol fighting is the norm in the mirror universe. Yeah, he was like, like he was entering the station, bumped in DeMorn. He said, guess what we're doing?

Vol fights, and he was trying to play along and thought that was normal, maybe. Thank you. Maybe that's a clue. That's so smart. Interesting. So smart. Well, Cisco confiscates all the voles or tells Zoto to confiscate them all. I love when Quark's last line, he says, poor Morn, this is going to break his hearts.

How many hearts does Morn have? I don't know. If you look like that, you might need a few. But it's cool because now we know, we've never known this about his species, that he has multiple hearts, but we know it now. So that's, I do like that line. It's pretty cool. well next up we're in ops now yes we are and cisco is ready to leave ops but that's when o'brien shows up wearing not his uniform but some type of casual get-up that he's wearing yeah he's not in he's not in

uniform right now and that already is a red flag he looks good yeah he looks great he looks fabulous but then he pulls out some funky looking phaser i don't even know what ruins the whole moment And he forces Cisco to go to the transporter pad and then he takes, I don't know what that other device was, but he had this other weird device that he just stuck on to the console, which I guess gave the coordinates or changed everything for them to beam to where they have to beam to. Oh, yeah, that definitely was it. He had that, yes, he was putting it on it. I would liken it to, you know how you can transfer information from one phone to the next. Oh, yeah. Right?

And so, yeah, that's what it made me think of anyway. Oh, yeah. And maybe that influenced cell phone makers to do such a thing. They were watching this episode and thought, hey, let's touch cell phones together. I love giving Star Trek credit for all of it. The writers, the creators. Yeah. If you can't imagine it, you cannot invent it.

That's true. That's true. I have a question about this scene. Mount Rushmore, the Eiffel Tower. All influenced by Star Trek. These were all built because of Star Trek, which I'm just, I'm messing with you guys. Oh, my gosh. I was going to say, wasn't Mount Rushmore a long, long time ago?

I don't get the scientific thing about that. Yes, that's what I'm saying. The pyramids. The pyramids are also influenced by Star Trek. Yes, literally. Okay, no. Here's the thing I have about, here we go. Here's the question I have about the scene, though.

Odo was in ops. He put, Odo's right there. And he's the head of security. He didn't leave? He was on his way out with Quark, but I just... Oh, now I got to watch it again. I feel like if Odo, the head of security, is right there, it just seems like... Well, he doesn't have a weapon on him.

He doesn't have a weapon, and Miles O'Brien, this Miles O'Brien does. But it just seems like I wish they had sent Odo far away long before, so you didn't. Because to me, I was like, how can this just be happening on the ops floor with... Or why not have that seen then? there. In security. Yeah. And then have Cisco insecurity and then Cisco goes into ops. Yeah. Yeah. That would have been about it.

And Cisco's arriving in ops. Chief O'Brien's waiting to talk to him. Yeah. Yeah. But there's already security on the bridge or in ops. And there's security. In on. Because he says, he says stand down, right? He says stand down because other people start raising weapons at O'Brien. Oh, he does. We don't see that, right? You're right. Oh. The security officer said commander and he said stand down. Stand down. And it all happened really fast.

It did. It did. It seemed easy to me, I guess is what I'm saying. A little seamless. Too seamless. Yeah. Well, isn't the show can be considered that way anyway, right? Yes.

Yes. Often. All of our shows. Yes. Yeah. Well, they end up beaming over. You only have 42 minutes. They end up beaming over to a Terran Raider, which is a really.

super cool looking ship and super cool yeah they they materialize inside how the bad guys always have the coolest ships i do i mean ours are cool but it's like the bad guys always have the more detailed out there looking ships yeah more dramatic looking yeah most definitely good word yes the exterior at least is very cool looking the interior is a redress of the defiant and also different lighting as well they just oh is that put red yeah so they put red yeah so they put red gels on the lights above to get that sort of red going on right yeah but when cisco says where are we o'brien repeats pretty much major cure's last line from the prior uh mirror universe episode she says what he says i guess you could say we just stepped through the looking glass so there you go

we have another reference to the title yet again well o'brien fills cisco in on this whole mirror universe thing that captain cisco is dead on the other side and that there's some Terran scientists that is trying to finish this device, this array, they can locate and destroy the entire rebellion. So they have to get, you know, kidnap the scientist, basically, is his mission. And then he shows him a picture of the scientist, and it's Jennifer, his wife from... Heartbreaking. Yes.

And Sisko says, I can't let her down again. Yeah. Yeah. Also interesting to note is that... This whole conversation and this explanation happens after Cisco disarms O'Brien. He's got some moves, yeah. He did a whole Jackie Chan on him and then took away. Oh, I love Jackie Chan.

Next, we're in the intendant's quarters, super sexualized. She's lounging with a man on one side, a woman on the other. He's lounging on a man. She's using a man as per shes lounge. Caressing his bald head. and uh and uh she's called for jennifer so jennifer arrives kira invites her to join them in this lounging i guess um jennifer says she doesn't want to know anything about benjamin you know captain cisco doesn't want to know anything about benjamin here it tells jennifer that it's

you know sad news but her husband cisco is dead and jennifer just wants all this killing to stop she says in the scene yeah well yeah and how about how kira's being so she she does this so well, no, not. But the playing that manipulative, there's a little passive aggressiveness to it, controlling. Yeah, it's gross. It's like, it's effortless control kind of vibes. Yeah. I do feel like Felicia played that very well.

Like, she played as if she didn't care, but she underneath, she did care. It was like, oh, good job. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Kira says, just finish this device, tells Jennifer, finish this array. And we'll try to convince the. rebellion to join the alliance and that will end all of this you can you can help save lives basically

just finish this device which i don't believe her i don't trust her one bit but um that's what she says and then she goes back to caressing the bald guy um yeah and the bald guy he was like a statue he just like didn't even look at her he just posed i honestly as if you're next if you're background Robbie and you're that guy, wouldn't you be also like a statue? Like, oh, my God, I would be so scared. The series regular is laying on me, caressing my body. Yeah, I don't have any lines. I think he was frozen with fear, basically, I feel, in a way.

Well, sometimes you have those moments where a series regular has got some business with a background person. Yeah. And the background person might start to interact, and it might not be good. Okay. And the director or the AD may go, hey, you know what? Just be like a statute. Just don't do anything.

That's what I think. Maybe he was told. I don't think he looked scared. No, he just looked like I'm here. He looked tired. Like they were both hired. You know what I mean? They're slaves to her.

So they don't want to do anything that's going to upset her or they're going to die. Yeah. He did caress her back. He intended. You guys see that? His hand was touching her, so, or rubbing her a little bit. Well, we go next out to a Raider corridor on the ship. Cisco's getting ready to go try to help mirror Miles in the mirror universe.

A great walk-and-talk here, Miles fills him in that Captain Cisco and Jennifer did not get along, and that actually, Captain Cisco, didn't really get along with anybody. He just knew how to fight. That was it. He was a fighter and loved fight. for the rebellion love fighting people even it sounds like even people that are uh part of the rebellion he was you know yeah he fought him all he was a brute he was a pirate yeah he was a yes uh and miles does tell him call me smiley uh that's what captain cisco called me and and and miles is like

you know we got we got to get to this there's a lot more to be shared but cisco goes he'll improvise I love his last line when he says, well, if I do, I guess I'll have to just improvise. The way he delivered that line, I was like, uh-oh. He seems too confident in his improv skills. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, Avery's delivery sometimes of words is, it's jazz. It is. It's jazz. Yeah.

It's awesome, though. It's so different. I think. It's so different. I love it. We go into some caves, I think, and the Rebel. headquarters and Bashir's got his pirate voice on. And his pirate wig?

And his pirate wig. Terry, did you remember that wig when you saw him in that shot? Or were you like, oh, my God. It's not a good wig. It's not a great wig. No, I'm sure it wasn't real hair. What's amazing about us? I'm sure I tried not to look at it much.

I don't know. Mine was that great of a wig either. Because this is for. Oh, I thought yours looked pretty good. Oh, they look good, but they aren't the real hair, right? That's too expensive. Like the quality of the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like my fall was real hair. My fall that I wore all the time. Yeah, that looks great. Because that's real hair. But this is synthetic. This is man-made. Yeah, because whatever was on my head, was on somebody else's head, was on, you know what I mean? Oh, interesting.

It's funny to me that Star Trek has won all these. for makeup and hair and stuff. And they can have amazing makeups or hairdos at times. But they can also have some of the worse. It's like, you know, this Emmy winning team can also put on some pretty bad wigs onto, Sid. But see how many people were in this show.

This must have been an expensive show to do. So where do you cut costs? Yeah, true. A wig is a no-brainer. But Terry, when you started talking about how your wig, you said it's been on my head. on someone else's head. I just imagine you, when you look on the inside, there's like a name tag, and it says,

Susan, and it's crossed out. And there's another one says, Beth crossed out. It just keeps going all the different heads that it was stuck on. Do you know what? I had to wear long. They had silk long johns for me for something we were shooting outside, and it was LeVar Burton's. Long John's. Yes.

Wow. That's funny. Did you ever tell them that? I probably did at the time because I, you know, no filter. Terry. Do you remember, Terry, do you remember when I was first starting out, there was a company called Western Costume and they were right near Paramount Studios. They moved to the Valley eventually.

But I remember doing a Western, a Cowboy Show, and I had to go to Western costume and get fitted. And you'd look at the tags and there were names. I remember they fit me with something. I want to say it was like Bing Crosby or somebody. It was like a famous movie star's name was on the tag. And I was like, I can't believe they still have these old cowboy uniforms or these old period clothes. Wow.

Yeah. That's so cool, though, probably. It's so cool. I went there for Virginia Slim's ad that won a, what are they called? Is it a Cody Award or OB? It's something for advertising. Yeah. They dressed me up exactly like Napoleon.

Napoleon Bonaparte, and I had to wear long johns underneath the pants to make my legs look bigger. Oh, that's funny. And they were, they said none of the other models wanted to do it. And I was like, I don't care. But I don't care. Napoleon, yeah. I'm an actor.

Oh, that sounds cool. It was cool. That costume shop was amazing. It was just like 10 stories high, this old building was filled with period costumes. It felt like an airplane hanger. Yes, yes. That's how big it. It just for the audience.

to get an idea of how enormous. The ceiling wasn't that as high as an airplane hanger, but just so. The volume of stuff. The volume. It's just hard to imagine until you walk into it. Is it still there? Is it still in business, Western costume? I think it's in business, but they're in the valley now.

They moved. Because I've been out there since that first fitting I had. It was a while ago. I think I was in the valley when I did. And I think I was 26 when I did that. Oh, really? Yeah. 26 or 27. It was right before I got deep space that I was at Virginia Slim's model.

Yeah, cool. I think Star Trek with Bob Blackman's facility, that warehouse that he had, he had a version of Western costume, like a collection of so much stuff. And he had to. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're in the cave. Bashir's acting like a pirate. Basically, you can feel he wants to be the new leader. He's trying to be the alpha guy, and he wants to use explosives and smuggle them onto, you know, the Alliance base or something. He's got this terrorist plan. And this is where we see Tim Russ for the first time.

We see Tuvok is there. Yeah. Timmy. Very cool. And Tuvok, Mirror Tuvok is basically saying to Bashir, like, this is not logical. Your plan is not logical. It's not going to help. I'm sorry.

I just love the fact that Mirror 2nda. Tuvac is exactly the same as regular Tuvok. There's no, as we're watching this scene, Robbie and I are going, it's like an episode of Voyager. There's no difference. He doesn't know. No difference. No distinction.

His outfit's different. There you go. Yeah. Yes, exactly. That's what happens when you play a Vulcan. You can't go too crazy in there. Also, O'Brien didn't seem very mean either. No.

He seems like O'Brien. They're the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Cisco arrives now. He's acting like a pirate. So he's playing the role of Captain Sisko, the pirate. Clearly he's well liked because everybody's happy to see him.

They're happy he's alive. And then that's when we see Mirror Dax. She arrives in her really fancy wig. We learn that she is his mistress. She walks up, she kisses him. That's because she's happy. And then she slaps him because she's mad at him. And she says, come with me.

Oh, okay. it wasn't that bad of a slap yeah did you really slap him it looked like you really it looked like i really did yeah i don't remember i remember feeling more weird about having to kiss him i bet you know because he's older than me and it feels like a mentor to me so those that combination felt like oh i i have permission to kiss you yeah my take my take on the slap it looked bigger than it was because of his reaction to how, when you hit him, it wasn't a big hit, but he made it a big, like, whoa! Like, his face went to the other room in a way, right?

Yeah, he probably helped me there. Yes, he helped you. Because you don't want to have a red mark on your face. No, you don't. Not for the rest of the day. No, no. And Robbie knows, Robbie's character has been slapped on Voyager, so, you know, he's been there too. So, all right.

Well, Dax says, are you coming or not? And this is where Sisko's a little confused. He privately talks to Miles. You know, I thought I was married. And O'Brien fills him in. Well, technically you are, but she's your mistress over here. Yeah. So suck it up, Buttercup.

You better. That's right. Now we go to the bedroom scene. A sexy time. I was a little uncomfortable with this one. Yeah, because when he says, are you coming, when she says, are you coming? or not, I thought they're going to go do planning or and stuff. I did, right?

I said it can wait. Yes, she does. Dax says that can wait. And that's when Cisco agrees. I suppose it can. And yes, they, they, they, it's implied, right? Yeah. That they have.

Did you matter our show if we really had sex scenes like real like, like, like, that would be wild. It would be wild. I guess they did that on discovery, right? I think they went a little further on discovery. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Awkward. Well, I'm glad I didn't have the stress of that. No kidding. Yeah, this made me uncomfortable. I was like, no. Ditto. I was shocked. And then he starts kissing your collarbone after that.

It would be different if it was the mirror Cisco and the mirror Dax, whatever. Right. But this is the real Cisco. It just seemed like that was the ethical line that he shouldn't cross. Or at least he should have fought it a little bit more. I mean, in the beginning, he stops her. He grabs Dax's hands. And then when she says, it can wait, he goes like, oh, I suppose it can.

And he doesn't even fight it any longer. Oh, well. It would be like on Voyager when, wasn't seven doing the holodeck with Chocote and, like, practicing? And that made me uncomfortable. I was like, so you're uncomfortable. I don't want to see that episode. Yeah. That would make me feel weird.

Dax and Cisco just did it. I don't like talking about it, but let's move on. Okay. But you just said we did it three times. Yes. And maybe they did it three times. We only know of one. Who knows?

All right. We're in the intendant's office again. He seems happy. Yes. Gira is mad in this scene. Not enough productivity. Garrick says he's tried everything. He's tried bribing him, everything you can.

And she goes, basically, she's like, watch this. follow me and they head out they go into the ore processing room where kira immediately tells the guards execute three random workers take these three go go kill them they walk out there were no other extras in that set i was like you just took the only three workers i see went and killed them who's gonna i mean you hear other noises like you hear as if there's people but but i found it very people moving. Yeah, or like reacting. Especially that they're slaves.

It seems like there should be abundance of them. Yeah. It was a little distracting to me because I wish they had had more extras that weren't being executed that could have cowered and then maybe moved out of the way or something. We started working harder right away. Or working harder or anything, but there was just nobody. Maybe they had their budget cut that day. Or Mirikira should have said, let's take these three that are in frame right,

now we will take care of these exactly anyway they go to they go to kill them and uh garrick garrick says uh you know you're very agitated lately and he thinks it's because cisco uh you know captain cisco died and he kind of asked you know is it that or you were pretty fond of him maybe that's what you're upset about and she kind of denies it but garrick says you know what soon you're going to have this array you're going to be able to it's a transpectral array They're going to be able to find all of the rebellion, and this whole thing will be over. And he basically promises that. And she goes, well, if that fails, I know who to blame.

So she's a very vengeful, yeah, scary person. She's scary. Yeah. And she does it well. Yeah, she does. And I did a really good job. Yeah, I don't want to get on a Nazepa. I did not like her in this.

No. I mean, I loved her as an actor. She was amazing. But the character is... The character was deplorable. Yeah, she did it really well. Next scene, we go back to the bedroom. This is Cisco's improv skills here.

I swear, I remember being given the direction to move my hand along my body and feeling like, oh, like I'm in some kind of commercial. It felt so awkward, and I didn't know how to do it any other way, right? How did you feel watching it? like did it do you think it worked? I thought I did a pretty good job. Yeah, I thought it was,

I thought it worked, but I, well, no, I think the hands on the body. Isn't it? Yes, that part seemed forced.

But once we got past that and had the scene, I honestly felt like those are sometimes when they want to do that for the camera, if it doesn't look good and there's kind of no other way to do it. Yeah. Then maybe, I mean,

it's not like I'm naked. And we just have. sex, it seems like if I were naked and I was touching myself, that would, sorry. Yeah, but I know what you mean. It would feel more natural, but along my clothes. Over the clothes, yeah. Or over his clothes, but if it's just for the camera, yes, the camera move, then we need to change it because it's not working.

But my point, if I were directing, that's what I would. I would have to. Yeah, but you can do the same thing without the hand. You can follow along the body curves and then come out. and then reveal Cisco, you don't have to follow, make a hand do it. Because when the hand started doing it, I thought, oh, that's Cisco's hand. I was confused. I was like, wait, is that Cisco caressing her?

Like, what's happening? That would make more sense, too, if he had his hand in my face and then moved it across my body. But, you know, those are the things when you're on the set and you're working as fast as we work on a, on our TV show. Well, you want to be the yes actor. Right. You don't want to be the one that goes, no, I can't do that. You go, I can do that. Let's try it.

Yeah. Let's try it. I'll try what you want me to do. And sometimes it doesn't work. Yeah. The speed of production really kind of makes things fall through the cracks. Like no one sits there and goes like. Yeah.

Okay. Sure. I mean, if you were shooting this like a film and old days where you had. 45. Yeah. You could experiment more. Yeah. Agreed.

All departments could experiment more. Right. Well, in the scene part, Cisco's improv skills almost fail because Dax is like, are you okay? You seem distracted. She's definitely suspicious at the, early in the scene. But then they continue on. She says maybe the rebellion is a lost cause.

And once that witch that he married finishes this array, it's going to be over. And they're not going to be able to. I want to run away with him. Yeah. You're trying to. Yeah, you want to run away. Let's go. Let's drop all this BS and get the heck out.

All this political stuff. Let's just get out. here. Right. And Cisco says, no, we're going to, we're going to have to finish the job. We're going to have to go stop her. Make sure she doesn't, doesn't build this array. So he's committed to saving the rebellion. And we go back into the, the headquarter cave. And Cisco basically tells everybody, he comes in and he slaps his knee at the top of the scene. I had to go back because I thought he slapped your butt. Did you? Because he's walking kind of. I thought he slapped my butt too.

I was like, did he just slap her butt? And I rewound. I was like, no, I think he slapped himself. But it was a little... I didn't rewind. I thought he slapped my butt. I just lived with that thought. It shocked me.

I was like, what's going on here? But why slap your knee? I don't know. It was just a way to like get their attention, I guess, and start the scene. I think it's better as an ass slap than a knee slap. I agree. A knee slap feels, I'm not sure why. Arbitrary.

Yeah. Forced, again, there's some forced moments in this episode. Usually Rick Colby is very, you know, he finds very natural ways to do interesting shots. And this one, I feel like he was forcing some of the interesting. Not as organic. Yeah. Yeah. But I thought it was shot good.

It looked really pretty. Yeah. And it moved well. He shoots action scenes really well, I think. Rick. He does. Yeah, he does. The chasing and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Cisco says they can't. keep trying all this small peanuts kind of stuff, no small fighters, no little stuff. They've just got to get Jennifer now. They need a bigger idea. And Bashir is clearly not a Cisco lover. And Tubac is kind of on his side too, right? A little bit, yeah. Yeah, he says that Dr. Bash, sorry, Dr. Bashir, Mr. Bashir is not convinced that you can persuade your former mate to join our cause.

Mm-hmm. And I don't, it's like, of course, because they're all thinking he is. Yeah. You know, badass. The same guy that they know. Yeah. Yeah. Who might be okay with killing her.

Well, Bashir says, Jennifer hates you. You're never going to be able to convince her. And this is when O'Brien whispers hit him. That's what the captain would do. Mm-hmm. And so he does. Cisco punches him, knocks him over. This was a nice shot because you had the.

stunt double take the hit and fall below frame yeah and then as cisco came over the table it panned down and there was um sid the actor coming up with blood on his face very nice little cowboy switch as we call it in the business where you and the perfect amount of blood on his nose i thought yeah what why is it called a cowboy switch Robbie what because in the old cowboy so a cowboy switch as we say in the biz was from cowboy moot old westerns where there'd be a fight and you'd have the stunt man or whatever you'd have the stunt man fall off the horse yeah but it wouldn't cut to the actor the actor would then the camera would tilt down and they'd switch the stuntman would switch places okay just off camera and then you'd step in so it's doing a an actor switch stuntman an actor switch

without a cut in there the terminology arose yeah yeah from westerns is what you're saying okay yeah copy that how i'm gonna say but sheer's stunt doubles yeah he did a great job He flew. He did fly, yes. Bashir wants to kill her. Dax wants to kill her, too, for other reasons. Yes. And Miles says, absolutely, no, we need a scientist on our rebellion side of things.

So Sisko says, we've got to get her alive. And he kind of challenges everybody. He's like, anybody want to disagree? He's taking charge here. And we head back into the attendance quarters where there's more sexy shots because Kira's getting a massage. It feels like a very sexy massage. It's a very terrible.

I thought it was creepy. Probably a butt massage as well. It's going to happen. Yeah, definitely. But you know how you saw this? I thought they must have directed him to just do the fingers. But it looked, I felt like, yeah, I felt, oh. It felt tickling.

It felt like he was tickling. Yes. Yes. Yes. Like, where's the oil, too? Yeah, it was, it was, you know. Maybe that's what a massage is in the mirror. universe no oil and just tickly movements you know mirror massage yeah well rom is in there as well

we see that rom is willing to be a spy basically he's telling them cisco's not dead captain cisco is alive and i can help you catch him i thought okay so both of you felt like oh he's still part of their team at this point because i thought oh frangis look at what they're doing they're selling out already. I thought he was literally already a double agent like he was. Yeah, I think he's a double agent. But he's basically saying if you're interested, I'll sell it to you. We're going to learn

later that they don't pay him anything. They just pay him with. Torture it. You know what I really thought. They pay him. I liked that Max got to play ROM without his, I mean, more confident ROM. Yes. Yes. He didn't

stutter or have any of that nervous stuff. It was really nice to get to see him be a confident. A version of ROM that's very confident. Yes, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I thought so too. I'm going to go on a limb and say that Max probably enjoyed doing this role a lot because he was able to do a different ROM.

So, yeah, it's nice to see that. Yeah, it is. We go in the Raider cockpit. Miles is there. Sisko's there. They're getting ready. It starts with O'Brien itching behind his ears. And I was like, what is that?

What a random thing? Yeah. Which, again, like I've said before, if the character coughs in a movie, movie, they're going to die. So I'm like, if somebody itches and you talk about it, that's going to lead to something, which we learned later. There's a little. But not as big as I thought either. Is there a payoff to this? Yeah. Yeah. Oh. But you know what I was thinking? I'm thinking, oh, now we're going to have a B storyline. I know. He's got some infection. That's what I thought. Yeah, me too. Okay.

Brain tumor. Yeah. We've seen too much TV. Exactly. Miles says Cisco did really good back there. And Cisco's still confused. He's like, you know, why did Jennifer and the Captain Cisco split up? He wants to know more. And Miles says, I don't know, but he does mention they came from very different backgrounds that she was from, you know, a privileged family and that Captain Cisco came up from the bottom. So maybe that has something to do with it.

Well, Miles picks up an energy distortion. Suddenly there's a Cardassian and Clingon ship decloaking. Right outside. And O'Brien says, you know, Captain Sisko would fight his way out of this. And like Cisco says, well, be glad that I'm not him. Yeah, they basically give up. So you feel like, hmm, Cisco's got a plan here. He's not fighting.

He's going to do this a different way. Inside the airlock, Cisco arrives, grabs Kira, kisses her. This is where the headpiece gets moved to her. What you're meeting for missing for people who are just listening is that they board the station. The station. The alliance, pure as bad guys, beam on to Cisco and O'Brien's little ship. And then they take Cisco and O'Brien with them. Yeah, I just wanted to say that because otherwise it's like, how did they just jump back onto the space station?

Yes. They take them. They take them. They're prisoners. But this kiss moment I found, I was like, oh, my God, everybody's kissing everybody. I was like really surprised, too. Like, we didn't even know about that. O'Brien didn't like warn him about that. So that felt like, oh, that's really uncomfortable. But O'Brien would have known about it. Well, he must have told him because Cisco was not in the mirror universe before. So he didn't know. Like in the other episode. sewed, there was

the relationship with Kira and Captain Sisko the pirate. There was a... Yeah. Oh. He was the boy toy. I forgot. Yeah. Exactly. He was the... But we never see him learn. We never see him learn that. Cisco learned that yet. We just have to assume it happened off camera,

I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I hate those kind of things, though. Yeah. But the amount of kissing you're right, Robbie, it's almost like the episode where Loxana Choi, where Loxana Troy shows up, right? And it has that... The love. The love episode, yeah. Lots of kissing. Well, she does say to Captain Cisco that she is still going to kill him. The kiss did not help. She's going to kill him. It helps a little bit. It helped a little bit. He bought him a little time. Yeah. She tells O'Brien, you know, why couldn't you just be happy fixing things? You know, you wanted more and you betrayed everyone. So she sends him off with security. And Garrick wants to kill. And she calls him a tinker.

Tinkerer. Tinkerer. A tinkerer. Which made me think of Tinkerbell. Oh, I'm sorry. You know, in the Barbie movies and all of that stuff. Yeah. Garrick also wants to kill them, which Kira should have listened to Garrick. He wants to kill him right now.

He says, I demand that you kill him or something. She's like, wait, you demand? Mm-hmm. So she's not ready to do that, certainly not taking orders from Garrick. She says it'll be on her timeline. and then Kira and Sisko head to her quarters. Well, she went a little more ass before she... I guess she did.

I have a question for both of you. Mirror Universe Garrick, how does he differ? Other than the fact that he wears a Cardassian military uniform, how does he differ from the Garrick that we know in the real universe? Do you guys see any difference? He's more in command rather than being like the, you know, he's very manipulative. He's not being covert.

outwardly there's there's no subterfuge he's just there you go perfect words it's all on his sleeve okay yeah did you also this is what I notice his hair is shorter it maybe I'm completely wrong but I thought that the hair is different for this garrick might have been inside the intendance quarters there's it starts with a cool mirror shot which I thought was cool mirror universe they play the first three or four line five lines in the mirror which was kind of a nice yeah you know nice way to include it's okay yeah i thought that was good rick rick colby rick did a good job yeah did a nice shot yeah she stepped into the foreground into the mirror you saw him in the background um but kira basically in this scene tries to decide what to do with him with cisco she she ultimately

she wants his loyalty but she says i can't ever trust you again and she tries to decide whether she's going to kill him sooner or later maybe a little fun time and then kill him or maybe just kill him right way he asks if he can vote which I thought was funny. She says, no, they almost start. She gets really close. They almost start, but then she pulls away. And she says, no, I need to think about it.

And he says, you'll let me know when you decide. She says, oh, I wouldn't keep it a secret. So a nice little flirty scene. And it worked well. There's chemistry there because when he says, do I get a vote? She goes, of course you do. It just doesn't count. And she laughs about it.

And he laughs back. There's a give and take there. Or that, you know, it looked, it worked well for me. Yeah, it worked well. Okay, so now we go to the guest quarters. These are Jennifer's quarters, I think. Jennifer's, yeah. I guess they're.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Guest cabins or something. Anyway, Garrick offers to beat him up. See, Jennifer says, no, no, no. Could you imagine that there's no way, Garrett would win. The specific word. Exactly. The specific words, if you need anyone to beat him into submission for you.

is what he says. Very funny line. He says, no, no, no, thank you, no, thank you. And then Cisco comes in, Garrick Lee, or Garrick, Cisco's there, Garrick leaves, and she wanted to know why he was always more interested in other women or his ship, you know, they talk about their past, basically, about their relationship. And Cisco admits he made a lot of mistakes. And it seems like she's clocking all this.

Like, this is a very different. Yeah. Yeah, this is a good scene. Yeah, it's a very good scene. Yeah. And also, she's mad because he gave the alliance a reason to treat Terrans even worse than they were being treated before he went off with. Started his rebellion. Yeah.

But he does ultimately say, take, you know, take responsibility for a lot, said he made a lot of mistakes. And he tells her he's here to rescue her. And that's the act out. And we go to, in the old days, go to a commercial, we come back. And she's like, I just want to end. this fighting and he says um and she doesn't trust him but he says she's wrong that that i've changed and uh he wants their people to be free he even says like you think you're free helping them but you're not you're just the slave like working for the you know the intendant the intendant just like

everybody else you're slave to them that she's really helping you know the alliance she's starting to listen and that's when he taps his ear this is the call back to the itchy? Yes, I realized the payback earlier. There you go. Yes, this is his ear, calls O'Brien. Yeah, this is a really nice scene. Sisko says he's sorry. He apologizes for all the Captain Sisko behavior

and taps behind his ear. There was one part of the scene where they just kind of moved over to a table and sat down. I thought that, to me, felt a little bit forced. I felt like they ran out of time and they had to do a two shot. Maybe that's what it was.

Because I felt also like I want to be closer and she didn't look comfortable how she was sitting yeah it was like it was out a little bit it wasn't it it just felt like also it felt like that that scene really could have used two close-ups well you know what rick did when they sat at the table he shot these profile shots like yeah and it looked cool i thought that looked cool and it was kind of often when i when i'm directing and i shoot those profiles it just it's usually that the scene is about two people kind of butting heads almost. And here you had these profile close-ups of Cisco and Jennifer seeing things very differently

and coming around to really understanding each other. So I thought that those profile close-ups were interesting, but I agree with you. It was missing sort of the connection. And then that's okay during the struggle. Yeah. Then did they move into close-ups once? No, I don't think so. See, that would have been a good way of storytelling.

telling that. Yeah. Then when they make the turn, when he says he's sorry and then over the shoulder and start to connect them more. Yes. Yes. Use the camera to help that. Yeah. So yeah. So O'Brien touches behind his ear. Right. Cisco touches behind his ear. They've set up this this subdermal communicator, Jennifer calls it. Never heard of this. I like that. I liked that it was subtle. Yeah. And there was a payoff. Yeah. Cisco does say in this that he got it for. from the Ferengi. He got this thing from the courtesy of the Ferengue, which I like. But

in the ore processing plant, O'Brien starts adjusting things. He sneaks away from his production line work to go to the panel. And that's when Cisco, we cut back, Cisco comes out of the quarters. He knocks out two guards. And he says to Jennifer, are you

coming? He says, you've got a choice. It's your choice. So she says, okay, I'm you but she does say I'll come but I still hate you and he goes I know yes exactly I love that though too because I I that's a really hard scene to pull off um to go with such conflict and then to come around that she's going with him I thought they did just such a great job with the writing and how they shot it I really believed it yeah I didn't believe

every scene in this show but this is one of my favorites there's some really good scenes in the show yeah yeah i agree with you i didn't believe some of them but but but this turnaround was really plausible yeah back in the uh or processing center miles is working on the panel this guard comes over pulls out a gun says you weren't authorized to do this oh brian does a flat hand knockout move that i thought was kind of cool it's like the freaking great yeah one move and he's down well if you hit somebody in their nose if your vomber bone, you could kill somebody doing that. The nose goes into the brain, correct? Yeah, the vomber bone will just splice it.

I'm terrified that you know that, Terry. I knew that too, Robbie. But she knows the vomber bone. Oh, that the actual name of it? Yeah, she called it. That I did not know. Right? If you know the name of the bomber bone, then you're an assassin basically.

You know what the message is? Don't mess with Terry Farrell. Okay. She knows what the bomber bone is. Thank you. I do have delicate hands, though. I don't think I could do it. Well, Miles can do it.

Miles flat hand knock out the guy, grabs the gun, and he tells everybody in all the slaves, all the Terrans that are working there, come with me, follow me. We're in the corridor. They're on the run. Jennifer and Cisco, great action sequence here. I did feel like Rick Colby made this hallway look really big, like the hallway, the running felt like they were. It doesn't always feel that way, but Rick's so good at action scenes that he was able to recycle the same hallway from different angles and different shots and made it feel like they were running a long way. Yeah. Yeah.

And there's a phaser fight. Cisco and Jennifer get trapped. Miles takes out a couple of guards from the side hallway. He's got Terrans running with him from the ore processing center. They're all together now on the run. We get to an airlock and we discover poor ROM. he's dead that was shocking i was like what the yeah why did they have to kill him

why did they have to kill him i like that version of rom i did too they should have just put him in jail or something i know you could use them again if you get more information out of him yeah i think in the mirror universe you can kill people in a way that you can't have that happen in our real story because then you run out of characters but

you know it's kind of in the universe. Anything goes. Garrick and his and Kira's guards trap them. They kind of all run out in this hallway. It seems like they were trapped. Although,

okay, so it seems like they're trapped. Kira says Rom told him everything, that Garrick persuaded him. Kira says, your pilot's dead. The ship's locked down. You're trapped. And Cisco says he's not leaving without Jennifer.

And she smiles. They have a nice moment here. And that's where they look behind them and they run toward a nearby or processing center. I was like, are they trapped or are they not trapped? Like, they seem to stop and have this conversation. And then they just look behind them and there's this long hallway. I was like, why didn't they just keep running?

Why did they stop and have this conversation with Kira and the guards? But yeah, I guess you had to play it somewhere. That's a moment where I was like, it doesn't make sense that you suddenly, you have more hallway to run down. Why didn't you just, why did you stop to have a conversation and then run? It would have been more believable if they had to go through another doorway. Like, oh, look. Or something, yes.

Maybe we can hack and, yeah, the door's locked and somebody hacks in. That would have made more sense. But it was a wide open, wide open hallway. I do like when Garrick, I have to call this out, when Garrick, Kara says, time's up, Benjamin. And she goes, Benjamin. And Garrick says, pursue. It was so weird. It was so weird.

I've never heard Andy Robinson give such a, it felt like a Shakespearean cavalry charred. Yes. Pursu! Yeah, he kind of sang it. It kind of like my birthday wishes on this episode, right? Yes, yes. It was hilarious. Maybe he was channeling Avery Brooks in a way with the quirky kind of line deliveries.

I don't know. Maybe. Well, they do, they do run. They see that they've made it down a hall. There's more gunfighting, cool, low angles. Rick really knows how to shoot an action scene. We see Miles do something and seal two doors, you know, so they seem to be safe for the moment. Oh, is that when Cisco tells him to close the door and he's easy for you to say?

Because he's getting shot at it as he's trying to manually close the door. That was insane. Yeah. But he does it. We're inside Cisco and the team. or inside this ore processing room and Cisco promises to get her out he says to Jennifer and she says I believe you and it was such a sweet oh nice moment I love it when Avery plays tender I absolutely believe him it's very authentic yeah yeah it was a nice

moment truthful moments yeah and then Cisco's working on some panels and Miles is like what are you doing uh Miles doesn't know what he's doing and uh Cisco does comment he says, I hope this place works just like my station does. And Kira's there in the corridor. She says, I'm not going to be lenient again. They enter into the processing center, and Cisco and the team are there. But they just stand there. It was very odd.

I was like. What did you think? What was your first take, though? What was your first reaction? Yes, that's exactly what I thought. I thought these are not them. These are the fake holographic them. And they're hitting.

I'm going to say, that is an excellent idea. Yeah. I thought he had done some hologram thing and they were just standing there. Yes, it was very. Because it was creepy. The way they stood there and it was almost like, hello, we are Stefford Wives. We're just going to stand here creepily. You know, I figured when he said, I hope your Teraknor is like our Teraknore.

Yeah. I was thinking he was going to take control of the computer. Yeah. So you were already on that. Okay. I was on board. I wasn't on board for self-destruct. I was on board for he's doing some techno thing.

Yes. Of making holographic characters. Holograms. That's what I thought. Yeah. Well, and in your show, you guys had an abundance of holographic life. We did. We did.

That's true. That's true. That's probably where your brains went there. Yeah. That's fine. Living in the past. Kirk walks very creepily over to Jennifer, like she's going to seduce her because that's her super. Creeple.

That's her superpower. She's doing her sexy, sexy walk. Yes, in a rubber suit. Like snake walk. Yes, exactly. She tells Jennifer, you know what? I'm not going to let him annoy you again. Cisco says, you should have killed me before.

He's activated the self-destruct sequence on the station. And Kira thinks that's not possible. She tries to stop it using her access code, but she's denied. And Cisco says, let us go. and once we're safely away, I'll send you the codes. She's not happy about it, but she does. She lets him go and says, this is not over. Now, I don't know why he would send them back.

Like, just let itself destruct. Why would you... It seems pretty easy. It's not morally the right thing to do. And he is our Ben Sisko. That's true. I imagine if he were the Cisco that got killed, Captain Sisko from the Mirror Universe,

he might have just let them all yeah well it's over very quickly this wrap up to me happened pretty quick and sudden and i would have liked the holographic character idea that would have been more but anyway it felt like a quick wrap-up well how much time do we have like five minutes of the show yes we're almost good luck on that robbie we're in the caves we're back with the rebels dax is not happy dax says to jennifer he's all you're Yours. It gives a very evil look. Yes. Well, Cisco says goodbye to Jennifer. She wants to know what happened to her husband. Jennifer says, who are you? Who are you really? She knows this is not. Wow, she has a hint. That's for sure. Is it? She's pretty sure. And Cisco says, well, Smiley will fill you in on everything. She thanks him for rescuing her. O'Brien arrives. They say their sad goodbye vibes. It was very sweet. It was sweet. But no, but what would have been sweeter is if Cisco, our Cisco, said, Jennifer, come with me.

You don't need to be in this, and took her back to, and then he would have his wife again in a way. You know what I'm saying? I thought, oh, that would have been so cool. But we already have a science officer. That's true. She could be a consultant. I wouldn't want to share my job. She could be your consultant.

You could be your assistant. You could be your assistant science officer. I don't think there's anything about Jennifer Sisko, Dr. Jennifer Sisko, that screams assistant. I do not think so. That powerful woman would not be okay with that. Well, here's a question. Do mirror universe go and mirror universe Jennifer have mirror universe Jake? It doesn't look like it.

It doesn't look like it. No. He was too busy looking at other women and other ships and fighting. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, that's it.

Cisco says, take me home, smiley, and off they go. I guess the only thing about the ending, I can see, because we know the story, that he has trouble leaving, but I would have liked to see a little bit more of an emotional struggle. And we know Avery's capable of it as an actor. It just felt like, I mean, when she went to kiss him and he moves away and so she kisses his cheek, I don't know, it just felt like there could have been more. bubbling up. Yeah, it felt like he was dealing with his emotions far too easily for me.

Yes, thank you. I think Cisco would have struggled much more. And maybe they did kiss. And then. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let her kiss you. Yeah.

And even when he saw the, yes. Like, it was more charged. Yeah. I feel like there would have been a lot more emotional charged to all of this for him than was played in the episode. It would have made us cry at the end. Mm-hmm. If that was played out.

Like, if she, instead of kissing his cheek, he didn't move away and they kissed on the lips and then have this, like, the torture of, he can never have her, even though she's right there. Yeah. I didn't, yeah. I didn't feel that. He moved away too easily. Yeah, he didn't need to be swashbuckling Cisco at that moment. Correct. I agree.

So, who cares? Who's going to see it? Who cares? Okay. I agree. Theme, lesson, moral of this episode. Robbie. My theme is that real love is timeless

because I did feel like even though Cisco and Jennifer were from different realities that there was still something there, which to me is the theme of like underneath it all, no matter what, there's still something that's real. Okay. Terry, do you have a lesson or theme of this episode? I felt like you can never give up on protecting your people.

You can't give up on fighting for what's right with the least amount of destruction is possible. But I think fighting for your rights, fighting for freedom is always worth it. That's what I was thinking. Nice. The moral or lesson that I feel for this episode would be everything in moderation. because let's face it, you know, I mean, Mirror Universe, Kira, way too much sexy time, okay? Way too much. Everything in moderation, please.

That's it. The winner of our Patreon poll for the theme moral of this episode is submitted by Krishna. Bravery is doing what is right, not what is easy. That's it, everyone. We've reached the end of our recap and discussion of Through the Looking Glass. Just a quick reminder, there will not be an episode this coming week. So the next episode will be on April 7th, and that will be improbable cause with the lovely Terry. Thank you, Terry, for being with us today.

And we look forward to seeing you next time. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little bit more, Terry, to join Robbie and myself. Yay. Bye. Thanks, everybody. Bye. Bye. You know,

I don't know.