The Delta Flyers - Tribunal

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode, The Tribunal is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, & Terry Farrell.The Tribunal: While leaving for a vacation with Keiko, O’Brien encounters Boone, a former crewmate from the Rutledge. We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Randy Hawke, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Jan Hanford, Sam Mikelic, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, & Sean T.Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Michelle Z, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Danie Crofoot, Steve Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, & Hailey Lugo, & Chris GarisAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Mars DeVore, Robert Allen Stifflerf, Jennifer Vaughn, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Matt Smith, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Zackery Voss, Loretta Reyes, Timothy McMichens, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Willow Whitcomb, Jadzia Mehari, Mo, Leslie Ford, & Douglas Lawrence-Plant, & Scott BowlingThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Oh, did I do that the right way? No, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through the episodes of Start Star Trek Deep Space 9. Your hosts for today are Terry Farrell, our very intelligent, creative, and crafty science officer.

Garrett Wong are somehow immortal Forever Ensign, who died eight times, but keeps coming back to life and myself, your favorite helmsman, Robert Duncan McNeil. Director, producer, writer. He wears a few hats. A few hats, including this actually is my first rodeo hat. today. I love that hat. And look at this hat that Terry's right. Mind your own damn business. It's hat day. Yes. And you forgot your other, you said all those things. And former lizard is the

other thing that you didn't throw in there. Former salamander. I don't know. What would you call it? Were you a salamander or lizard? Amphibian? Yes, I was an amphibian. Let's say that. Let's say that. So you were like a gecko? Yes, kind of like a gecko. He was more revolving. than a gecko, I think. So I'm going to say former amphibian, former fabulous amphibian, amazing amphibian. Thank you. Thank you. I give you something good there.

I don't want to be rude, but isn't a gecko an amphibian? It is. And in a cibbean, I thought a lizard was a reptile. Oh. Our favorite reptilian slash amphibian slash something in

something in, yes. Well, there's more education between the two of you, I do believe that I'm right. I don't know if there's more education. There may not be. You both went to college. He went to college. You didn't go to college?

No. I went to acting drama school. He went to life college, Terry. That's what he went to. Yeah, that's what I did too. New York City. That's fine. Did you move to New York first, Robbie?

I was 17 when I moved to New York. Yeah. Me too. Really? Yes. Yeah, we were babies. Look how many parallels there are. I took my GED and I, then I saved, well, I saved up my money.

Yeah. And I took a train, one-way ticket. Me too, I took a train. What? Shut up. Are you serious? I had my trunk from summer camp, my black trunk from summer camp, filled with stuff, and a, like a duffel bag and a trunk.

Terry, you did not have a trunk from summer camp, correct? You did not have a trunk from summer camp. I had a broken suitcase from my grandmother I taped shut. Yes. And I had a little box with some pots and pans and little it's and bits that my mom gave me. I know. I can't believe we took trains to New York to move. How old school.

It's so old, Amtrak. Yeah. I love trains. I do too. And it was overnight. Oh, wow. Yeah, because you were from Iowa, right? Mm-hmm.

It was kind of scary, actually. If either of you end up collaborating on a project, your production company should be called Trained to New York Productions. Yes. Yes, it should. Yeah. We just incorporated just now.

There you go. Just now. And we're releasing three films this year. Oh, my God. Stop it. I'm so excited. Who am I looking at? Let me finish our intro.

We're not even done with our intro. I know. I know. This is the first we've ever stopped the intro in the middle of the intro. to have introduction banter. It's introductory banter, which is really cool. We don't have to do everything in order. It's not, time is not linear in the wormhole.

So we don't have to have linear time here either. So for the complete version of this podcast, including all bonus segments, check out patreon.com for slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Yes. We thank our patrons too. Our patrons are incredible. And the community that's developed around this podcast. In the Patreon community is awesome, a bunch of awesome people.

So thank you all. Yes, thank you. How's everybody doing? Pretty good. Speechless. You're speechless. You're so good. All Terry did was this.

She went like this. She went like that. All we heard is like a quick little breath. And that was it. Yeah. We're waiting. There's so much. Well, I was just at the doctor.

Yes. That's right. and had to have x-rays on my hips and lower back. So, yeah, some arthritis pain. It's not fun. No. And, you know, you've gotten way past, well, now you're that, you are. When they start using those words.

Right, right? We've gotten to be that age or around that age or whatever. Now it's just, now you're 60, so we're taking x-rays. We're x-ray and everything. If it's bad, we're doing bone density. I mean, I know it's arthritis, but. But you're very active, like you said, you were saying earlier. Like you've done yoga forever and running and all kinds of, like, yeah.

Well, I used to be way more active, but those things, kickboxing and running really, it does a number on your body and you start to feel it. Some people sooner than later and others of us, it catches up with us later. So I don't do a lot of the things that I found really helpful to kind of get my energy out or anxiety because now understanding the late diagnosed ADHD, why it made so much sense that if I was feeling overwhelmed, going for a three mile run really made me feel a lot better. Yeah. Because of the impact of the kickboxing and the running on your joints and your. arthritis. Could you now do maybe a swimming workout, a non-impact workout? That could help you, right? Yeah, I joined a tennis and racket club. Apparently, it's too hard to get into the tennis

lessons, but we have an indoor and an outdoor pool. There you go. That's great. Yeah, and the swimming really makes a lot of difference. Yeah. Get it all out there, right? Just swimming laps, yeah. Swimming laps. Swimming lap. Swimming lap. I would swim a lot. Thank you. Dr. Gawah? He's my new PT. You're welcome. I'm your PT. I'm your PT consultant. He did start in medical school. He did go into college for medical school. Pre-mid. I said pre-mid. That's how I called it. Pre-mid. That's why you didn't finish medical school. Because I thought it was pre-mid, but it was actually pre-med. I want to go with that. Yeah. How are you guys? Yeah. How are you, Robbie? How am I? I'm good. I'm good. It's getting cold here. It was in the 40s this morning when I woke up.

That's awesome. like suddenly and we got a warning last night for a freeze warning or something overnight so that's exciting it is exciting and the trees are starting to change a little yeah it's nice i love that yeah not yet here how about you gawa oh i had a crazy flight so i went uh i've where are you i'm in calgary now so okay what happened was we what did we we recorded on tuesday no when did we We recorded. Yeah, two days ago, right? So Wednesday, yeah.

So Wednesday night, after recording, I took a red eye. I know, sorry, I took a flight from Vegas to L.A. And then I took a red eye from L.A. to Dallas at 1248 in the morning. And then I got in at 11 a.m. to Calgary yesterday. So completely out of that. Wow. You did it the hard way. I did it a hard way because I had to pick up.

I left a package in Los Angeles that I had to pick up that I totally forgot about. So I was like, okay, I've got to go. go to L.A. first, then head to Dallas and then to get me. I don't know how you do it. Yeah. I do not know. Wow. So that's where, yeah, just doing the regular traveling, traveling, traveling, traveling, traveling thing. So I had trouble like, it was fine, but it was fine when I was young, right? When I was in my 20s and 30s, traveling extensively was okay. But now that I'm in my 50s, it's, it's become a process, a journey, a obstacle course, you know, whatever you want. You're going to have to have x-rays from all you're flying.

I will probably have to have x-rays. You know, I try to avoid even driving into town. Really? That's how much I like to not travel. Yeah. I'm not way too. I was actually so bummed that my appointment took so excessively long because I was like, oh, well, I'm going to be in town. I can do these things and those things.

Nope. Didn't do anything. I'm glad I don't live in town, though. Because you have this kind of similar thing, right, Robbie? Yeah, we're kind of pretty rural. And yeah, I took a hike this morning, took the dog for a hike right outside. That was my traveling. Yeah.

That's the kind of traveling I like. I like that traveling too. Yeah. We've got some birthdays, though, to talk about. Oh, yeah, we do. What? We do, yeah. Oh, I see Elaine Ferguson.

October 28th. Happy birthday, Elaine. Happy birthday, Elaine. Happy birthday, Elaine. We've also got Daryl Chang, Daryl, it's your birthday on October 30th. Happy birthday, Daryl. Hey, it's your birthday. Hey, it's your birthday. Happy birthday, Daryl.

Happy birthday to the plant master himself, Daryl. Daryl wrote a book actually, Tare Fair, yeah. About plants? Yeah, about keeping plants in your house alive and doing all the things that you need to do. I need that book. You need his book. I need it. I don't have plants.

because I'm afraid they're going to die because I travel too much. We're going to get you a copy of Daryl's book. Daryl's book is very, very good. So, yes. Also, we have another birthday. Jocelyn Pina, happy birthday. October 31st. She's a Halloween baby.

That is the best. Very cool. I don't know anybody. Happy birthday, Jocelyn. You don't? You do now. Do you know other people with October 31st birthdays, guys? I don't know someone.

Really? Yes, and it's not on the top of my head right now. But you've got to agree, it's rare. There's probably only one person in your life that you met with that birthday. Come on now. I wonder if my son's birthday is on Christmas Eve, so I can get that phenomenon of like. He's 24th. He's having a big holiday.

Yeah. Does your son, does Max feel like he doesn't get a full birthday, 100% birthday? Because he's sharing it with Christmas Eve. Well, I don't think that part bothers him so much, or bothers is probably isn't the right word. But I feel like he's always, even though he had birthday parties for him, it could never be on his birthday. Yeah, because everyone's already at their in-laws home, whatever. Yeah, you're right. It's difficult.

And if you think about it in college, in school, nobody could celebrate his birthday because they're already gone home after finals, right? They're at home for holidays at that point. And that was like me because my finals week was always during my birthday, December 15th at UCLA, all finals were during that week. So nobody could celebrate with me. No, and that's not happy. No. No. Finals are never happy.

No, no one wants finals. That's why I didn't go to college. Wait. Wait. Is there more? There's more. Yes. Holly Schmidt.

November 3rd. Happy birthday, Holly. Happy birthday, Holly. And take care of those potatoes. You know, I love your potatoes. And that's not a euphemism, people. Don't go there. People are going to read into that.

No, and he's not calling her. Holly's potatoes. That is not a euphemism. Yeah, it wouldn't be. Happy, happy birthday. That he called her peaches. Happy birthday, Iowa Holly. And we also want to give a shout out to Jeremiah Brown, one of our veterans with the Delta Flyers, birthdays on November 3rd. Happy, happy birthday, Jeremiah.

Happy birthday, Jeremiah. Happy birthday to our resident, Master of Minatures. master of action figures and creating, what is it, stop motion. Stop motion, yeah. Yeah, cool. He does that, Terry. I love that. He'll do Janeway in Paris, you know, doing stuff and it's crazy.

Oh, he must be very patient. Patience is an understatement for what this man does. He also has Janeway's couch, the actual couch in her ready. From the set. From the set that he purchased at auction at his home. So he has a museum, basically. So happy, happy, happy birthday to Jeremiah. Let's jump into it.

Poetry synopsis. Limerick, please, Mr. McNeil. Okay, here we go with my limerick synopsis for tribunal. You know, I always thought it was tribuneral. I literally my entire life. Yes, this is one of those moments where you kind of go, Oh, I've been thinking that was a different word my entire life. I thought it was tribunal.

Oh, my God. Oh, it sounds good, though. It sounds like a slightly dyslexic issue. I do those things all the time. You can see, I didn't go to college. Do you know that I call Armand? What? When?

Yes, Max told me that that's what I do. And do you know what? I talked about him the other day. And I was talking to Nana and I said, Armand. And I heard myself say it, but she didn't correct. me, and I was like, oh, my, I add consonants or vowels to words that don't belong there. I think it's just a scramble. It's just a little dyslexic scramble in my brain.

You're being creative, I think. I would say you're being creative, like my tribunal. You guys are the best brothers ever. I want to ask, Robbie, when did you realize that it wasn't tribunal in preparation for this episode? Last night, yesterday, when I watched this episode. Oh, my gosh. I was like, it's tribunal? You see, Star Trek is educational.

It helps. It really is. It's very educational. Just you know, the original title of this episode was dark tribunal. But according to you, it would have been dark tribunal. Yeah, which I think is better. It's a better type. It is actually a flow better tribunal. It needs an extra.

It needs it. Can we all decide just to change it? Thank you. Tribunal. Tribunal sounds incomplete. It does. The tribunal. Unless you're on tribunal and then I bet it feels pretty complete.

It feels pretty complete there. But for Robbie's sake, I'm going to start referring to it as tribunal from this point forward. Let's try to change that word, people. Come on. Let's try it. Okay, here we go with a limerick for tribunal lo. I can't even say it. Okay, here I go.

I'm going to save my poem. Yeah. Miles is arrested after he sees Boone from. Settlic 3. No O'Brien vacation. Miles is a detainee. His voice recordings and exhibit, the judge thinks Miles did it. But Cardassians really owe Miles an apology. Nice. G, man. That's awesome. That was awesome. Apology. Yeah, you got to. Also, you have to make it for my absence. Yes, I know. We're so sad. Terry told us she didn't have a poem for today. That's okay. I didn't.

I'm so sorry. It's okay. It's okay. Don't feel bad. Don't, yes. I feel a little bad. No, don't. Don't.

Because Garrett's going to knock it out of the park with this high cue. Yeah, you guys are amazing. Here's my haiku for tribunal. Vacation for chief. Arrested by the Cardi's. Cisco brings fake boon. Nice. Very, very nice.

I just like to my haikus to be very theatrical. And that's how I deliver them. They're not very. Yes, you do. You're very. You're very dramatic. Japanese. Thank you. You have a lot of passion. I do energetic haikus is what I do. Yes, he do. Yes, thank you. Who's our guest stars? Guestars, yes. Rogel and Chow, first of all,

who we all know and love. We love and adore. We interviewed her. That was so amazing. Isn't she the best? She's so good. She's so good. I didn't get to see her in L.A. I had too much going on. Patreon patrons, you were very lucky to get Ms. Rosal and Chow. We were all very lucky to get her. All of us. Yes. What a talent. And she talked for a long time with us. She really did. It was two or three hours. It was a long interview. She was great.

She probably just loved hanging out with you guys. We also have Fritz Weaver as Covatt. He's the public defense attorney that basically never wins. He won the Tony for the role of Jerome Maley or Malley in the original Broadway production of Child's Play. So that's pretty good. I did the L.A. production or A.L.A. production of Child's Play with Gregory Harrison and William.

Matherton. Ooh. Yeah, it was a great production. It's a great play. A little dated, a little. Right. Yeah. But still, a lot of them are.

Yeah. To win a Tony is. They're going for the classics. Yeah. He reminded me of, was Herman Munster Edwin? Yes. When he first came on, I thought the same thing. He's not alive.

He's not alive. It couldn't have been him. I would have lost my mind. If Herman Munster was on D.S. I know. Oh, my God. I love the monsters. in the house family.

Jerry's like, Fritz Weaver, whatever. But if Herman Munster, Brett Gwyn was there, I would. But I'm going to be honest with you, I thought the exact same thing. The minute he came on, I don't know if it was about his makeup,

how that cardassie makeup was. Yeah. He looked very Herman Munster. He did. First thought. But he did win the Tony, which is an accomplishment for any actor to win an actual Tony.

This is the theater, the theater award, basically. Yeah, it's very big. He did pass away at the age of 90 on November 26th, 2016 so yeah 90 he made it to 90 that's not bad yeah it's a good life yeah it's a good life that's a good life we also have caroline lagrfelt as mock bar she has appeared on many many other sci-fi shows like buffy x-files gotham and she worked with richard poe who is who plays gullivec who is also in this

episode in one of those before-mentioned tv shows we have john beck who plays raymond blue Beck is best known for portraying the character of Mark Grayson on 67 episodes of the TV series Dallas. That's why he looks familiar. I was like, he's so familiar, but I don't know where. I wasn't religious watcher of Dallas, but yes, that's why he looks familiar. But you watched it enough to make him familiar in your database. Yeah, his face. I was like, I know his face, and I don't know why.

Yep. Yeah, that's him. Richard Poe is back as a veck. And, of course, there's also Julian. Christopher, who is the Cardassian voice. You remember when O'Brien is thrown into that prison area and all you see is the dark figure there that's like speaking to him, take off your clothes or something like that, is what he says. He did play Hagon in the TNG episode, Code of Honor, which is the reason why I never

watched TNG, for those of you who remember from the Delta Flyers days, I explain that story. But he was credited in that episode as James Lewis Watkins and not Julian Christopher, so a completely different name. So maybe he thought that he needed a... Who knows? Yeah, who knows? Yeah, theorizing on that. But he was one of the actors considered for the role of Wharf.

So Michael Dorn, yeah, and he... Interesting. Yeah, we're both competing for Wharf, so who knows? He does have a very resonant low voice, so I can, you know, I can see him doing Wharf if he did get Worf. But he didn't. Written by Bill Dyle, directed by none other. Then Commander Sisko, Avery Brooks, unbelievable.

Yeah. First episode. First time he directed, right? Season two. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. So he matches you.

You did season two as well, Robbie, right? I did. I did late season two. It was my first directing. Of Voyager. And this is late season two of DS9. So you matched Avery. Yeah.

Yeah, about the same time. Yeah. So, but is he, and he would be the first DS9 actor to direct, too. Correct? Seems like it. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

That's what it looks like. Renee must be next. Okay. Evidently, he directs nine or eight other episodes of DS9. I did not know that. Oh, wow. Wow. The plot of this episode, guys, was based on a statement made by Gold DeCotte in the episode

The Maquis Part 2. So he says, on Cardassia, the verdict is always known before the trial begins, and it's always the same. So Iris Stephen Bear stated later that that one line, gave us the concept for the whole episode just from that line of the episode yeah it's funny because i thought the reverse i thought they had this episode in mind and so they put that line in earlier oh to track it earlier yeah oh wow but it was reversed interesting because i do remember that moment when he when when he said that right it jumps out at you because you're like oh wow you've

you know that's not justice to figure out the verdict ahead of time yeah which is very interesting A lot of people do feel that this plot takes an inspiration from the novel The Trial by Franz Kafka. So that book tells a story of a man arrested and prosecuted by an inaccessible and bureaucratic authority with the nature of the crime revealed neither to him nor to the reader. The Cardassian court is reminiscent of the court described in Kafka's work, The Trial. So that's one parallel. Well, let's dive into it. We start off in ops. the very first scene, and I wrote down, Disco O'Brien.

His outfit was like, it was like the open shirt and the kind of tight sports pants. And I don't know. It's just like, that looks like, you know, an ad from the 70s of like J.C. Pennywear or something. Oh, my goodness. I thought it was, it was a look. I thought he looked great because it was so nice to see him out of uniform. Out of uniform, yeah. Oh, I thought it looked great.

Great, but it definitely was an homage to, like, Saturday Night Fever or something to me. Oh, my goodness. This is, this, this is directly for my reaction video for this episode. I'm going to, I'm going to say it now, or at least part of it. When he came on, I said, he's competing on dancing with the stars. That's a dancing with the stars. It's a day. Yeah, that works.

He's ready to compete. I almost said, is he? Yeah. With that outfit he could. That was so convincing. That out, but he sure could. He sure could. Yeah.

That's what I thought. But Robbie, where is he going? Well, he's going on vacation is where he's going, Terry. Finally, he's going on vacation. I'm not kidding. Tell me more. He's going on vacation. Dax and Kira are trying to reassure him, get him out the door.

But he's very nervous to leave. He just doesn't seem to want to go. No. Finally, he goes down the lift. He leaves. They kick him out. They don't kick him out. But they, like, shoe him away.

Cisco comes out fighting from his office. He's like, is he gone yet? And he pops back him up on that lift. Just his head pops out. Oh, my word. I laughed so hard at that scene. That was very funny. I laughed so hard after Cisco orders him to then depart.

Yeah, disembark his station. Right? And then his head goes, okay. Yeah, that moment right there is the laughter part, right? The minute he goes like, he goes, hi, sir, and he goes down. You can't not. The timing was perfect. Yes.

Very funny. So we have to give it to the crew. because they're the ones who... That time the buttons and... Yeah? Or was that a direction from Avery? Did Avery say time it so that you... You know what I'm saying?

It's a direction. But they did it. They did do it. And it looked great. Very funny. It did. It's funny that you say Avery's direction because I will say up front. I noticed a lot of very actor-friendly kind of choices in this episode, more than normal.

Like bits and moments. It felt like, oh, I can see the... actors work a little more in this episode, moment to moment. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm sure that's because Avery coming into it as an actor is really looking at the, you know, trying to milk these moments. Yeah. So he did, he did a really good job there. Hmm. We go to the promenade next. O'Brien's just kind of running along, almost drops. He's got a pile of pads with him, which later will learn he brought along on vacation, brought a lot of work. But he's got a He's fumbling with the pads, almost drops them, passes some guy, and then he turns

around, turns out it's an old friend who lives and works on the Cardassian side now, a guy named Boone. He says, Boone, O'Brien, Miles O'Brien, we serve together on the Rutledge. So it's an old friend he runs into. Co-worker, right? Co-worker, yeah. And Miles reminds him about the border wars and Setlik 3. They talk about that, that they were together on Setlick 3 during some pretty rough battles.

Boone says, well, that's what made me leave Starfleet with Settlic 3. And Miles says, oh, well, that's why I stayed. And then Miles heads off. So interesting little reunion with his old buddy, but clearly they took away different things from their experience. Yeah. Getting that sense. Clearly on opposite sides of the fence. Yeah.

But also at the end of that scene, the way that Avery chose to shoot that, you do see, you know, they split apart. So Miles goes on. And then Boone kind of like, he's still smiling. And then all of a sudden he turns away. And when you catch it on the reverse, as he turns away, the smile drops completely. So now you know something's up already from just from that little tiny little tidbit. Not just a friend. He's there for something.

But then he pulls out that little recorder. Yeah. In the next scene, right? Yeah. The next scene, he goes into a closet or closet or something, some dark area, pulls out a little hand recorder. and you hear that he recorded Miles's voice. So you know that he's there for some nefarious purpose. And I will say, I'm going to just front load my feelings,

these two scenes where he runs into an old friend and the thing you're talking about, Garrett, like the turn and dropping the smile and then seeing the recording, I, to me, I wish these things weren't in. It's so telegraphed. Okay, so you don't want to see that at all. I wish they had not done these two scenes. Yeah, it was too quick to show us that.

Yeah, and it kind of ruins where we're going. And I'll tell you why I think it ruins it. But yeah. But it's already ruined in the next scene, though, because he pulls out the thing and you hear the recording. You know right there, boom, bad. So there's not much time. That's what I'm saying. All of it, like those two scenes.

So maybe they shouldn't have shown Boone's face then in the second shot at all? I don't know. We can talk about it in the, in the, you know missing scenes i have a thought to talk about in that section but all right but um yeah this was a bummer to me because i was like well now we know where's this going that's going to keep it interesting yeah and it didn't go anywhere that was in my opinion interesting because we knew this because yeah from the beginning there's no red herring it's this is the bad guy he's the bad guy now how are we going to catch him and what is he going to do with whatever he's going to do yeah

What is he going to do that we're going to have to catch him for? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we go in. We don't have to listen anymore. We're done. It was super nice. We're done.

It was a great. Yeah. Great to see you. Great episode. But it's a round already for me. You guys have great hats. I love the hats that you're wearing and your backgrounds look good. But we're done for the day.

We're done. Just enjoy your day. It's just ruined. Go read a book. Walk amongst nature and have fun. Bye. Bye. Meanwhile, we go into the runabout next, Miles and Kiko are there, headed on their vacay.

Keiko asks if he brought the holocam, oops, didn't bring it. No. And he's doing some work on those pads, that pile of pads. And she asks, how much work did you bring? and he gets it that he's working too much. She sits down. He goes over and upside down kisses her, which I thought was very funny.

It's like he sort of falls into like she's cradling him and he's upside down. It was cute. It was cute. And it was also different in a way. It was an odd choice. And honestly, when I saw this more than once, and the first time I saw it, I didn't watch who I didn't see directed by.

And then when I went back, I go, Oh, well, that makes sense. That's like, because Avery's so unique in his delivery of his lines. They're so outside the box. And for Kiko to sort of be kissing Miles in that position is outside the box to me. So I said, oh, it's Avery directed. Well, maybe not in real life, but certainly in films. They don't usually do a much more traditional.

Yes. Yeah, male female stereotype. Yes. But I do find it funny guys that he had those stacks and stacks of pads, because we all know one thing in this day and age, your iPad can hold an incredible amount of information. You don't need your phone alone. Your phone alone, but back in the early, in mid-90s, no one understood that concept. They didn't have that yet.

No, so that's why he has stacks of pads there. Well, we did have, we were just. The iPhone hadn't even come out until computers, yeah, kind of computers were. Laptops were not in a, still newish. Yeah, there were no pads though. There was no iPad at that point, you know, none. But the thought process is they made it look like he was carrying books and manuals, right? Yeah, yeah.

Stacks of those, but they were pads. But in reality, we all understand. That's something I just came up with. Do you remember Marvin Rush got the first Apple Newton, which was a little handheld? Yes. Oh, he was showing that thing off to all of us. Oh, yeah. Love that gadget.

He was like, hey, guys, look at this. And we were like, oh, it was like a little handheld note pad or not? With a stylus. right? When they have a style. Yeah. And Marvin was always. And you could write in it.

Yes. That's exactly. And it would do the sentence. Yeah. I remember Marvin. I had one of those. Those were obsolete real fast though. That was weird.

They were. They did not last. Marvin when he got his first. Palm Pilot. Oh, Palm Pilot. That was another one. That's another. When Marvin got the Newton though, Marvin was like, see, Star Trek is real.

It's becoming real. I've got this Apple Newton and it's like Star Trek. It's so excited So cute Yeah It was awesome There is an alert Comes through

In the middle of their kissy kiss It's a Cardassian patrol Miles calls for shields up And he sends an emergency signal You know Because the Cardassians are not He's not in Cardassian territory No

So why is this Cardassian You know Kind of weird Yeah Whatever it is It's a It's a what kind of Cardassian ship is it

A patrol ship? So it's like a Patrol ship yeah Yeah Yeah. He knows this is not, shouldn't be happening. They hail him, GoloVec's on screen. He orders them to stop and let them come on board. Right. Did you just interrupt very quickly. When Gullivak comes in the monitor, he says, Mr. O'Brien, we've spoken before. That refers to the conversation they had in the episode Playing God when O'Brien had to contact Cardassia for assistance in exterminating a colony of Cardassian voles. Do you remember the voles? Oh, that's right. I sure do. So he has a conversation with.

actual, the actor who plays Cullivac, but in that episode, they only credited him as Cardassian officer, and not Cardassian officer of Vec at all. So, there you go. So now his role is, they brought him a name. They brought him back. They liked him. Yeah. Gullivac says, stop, let us come on board. Miles thinks about it. And he's like, we didn't do anything wrong. Like, sure, that's fine. So they do. They come on board. They inform him that he's under arrest. Yeah, they don't even say anything before that. He's just like, we're here to rest. you that's the first thing he says yeah i thought at first he told him they couldn't come on board he did and then he says if you don't be miss let us be a lower your shields and let us be aboard we will

then take you know actions blow you up yeah so then he lets them on and then the first thing he says you're under arrest is all he says i did feel like like when they beamed on board and this is me nitpicking i probably will nitpick a lot in this okay but it was a shot from kind of the you know the the camera left side of Miles and Keiko, and then it cut to a shot that was almost the same position just wider to beam them in. So I would call that a jump cut, which is just something a little unsettling. It's like- It's distracting. It's distracting. When you go from one angle, you really want to go to a reverse angle. Like that's the patterns we're familiar with. When you jump from the same angle to the same angle just a different size it can feel a little unsettling like things aren't matching it's

jumping around and they're beaming to me felt like a jump cut and yeah I was surprised but the whole moment I'm going to play devil's advocate but the whole moment yes the whole moment is already jarring to begin with and very unsettling because the vacation has been basically halted and these cardassians have just beamed aboard so maybe the use of that was to give even the viewer the feeling of being settled as well. So I'm playing devil's advocate on that one. Okay. But it's definitely not true to form of what we're used to, which is show this and then flip around show the reverse. And then either reverse angle or cut to a, you know, a very different angle or a much wider angle. It was kind of in the middle to me. It felt like jump cutty. Got it. Yeah, they come on board. He's like,

I don't know. I didn't do anything. What did I do? And they don't tell them. They just say you're going to be imprisoned on Cardassia Prime. We'll send Kako back to safety. and he tries to push past him, but they, they stun Miles, and he collapses, he kind of goes back and forward like a danger, danger, Matt alone moment. It's the old, oh, ooh, ball down in the chair. I didn't, I didn't really see that, but okay, I didn't. No, I was more, I was more enamored with, with, with Keiko screaming out Miles all the time. I was just, yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of stuff in this, and then I'm going to stop beating a dead horse. There was a lot of stuff. stuff in this to me, if I'm being

honest. There's a lot of stuff that felt like it might have been Avery's first time directing, I'll be frank. Because I was like, oh, that's, it doesn't feel as standard as, you know, kind of Star Trek usually does. It felt very different than most other. Like, there was a lot of great actor moments, but in terms of the

shot making, it felt like bumpy to me. It felt like sometimes the camera was doing something at odds with the content of the story or the emotional moment of the characters in the scene. The shot making felt a bit at odds quite often in this episode. What was happening in the scene? Yeah, with the story. But the actor's work was really interesting and great.

So I think Avery was really focusing in on that and maybe his choice of where to put the camera, what lens to use might have been a little more finessed. I don't think he was putting as much attention on that sometimes. And Marvin was the D.P. And Marvin was always very opinionated. How was he with Avery, though? Like, did he? Yeah, you know, I wasn't in that episode very much. Yeah. But in general, was like, did Marvin, was he very deferential to Avery? Or did he say, Avery, I think we've got to do it like this?

I honestly, the only episode I was in a lot for Avery directed, where I remember being in a lot was rejoined. But that was much later Yeah But in general So that was Jonathan West It was a totally different kind of person to work with Totally different Okay

Yeah I think in this one it felt like maybe Avery said hey let's put the camera there And my guess is that maybe Marvin didn't feel Like he could say Oh that's not a good place to put it So Marvin just did it And then I think because Avery hadn't directed before Maybe there was a little less sophistication

or you know about some of that shot maybe there could have been tension for that too maybe so next up we have an exterior shot of the cardassian home world we're on the planet surface this is actually the first appearance of cardassia prime on ds9 and the planet had previously appeared in the tng two parter chain of command part one and part two and that's that's it so that t and g appearance and now on ds nine is the very first time that we see cardassia prime and herman Zimmerman, the production designer, said he took inspiration in the set design from George Orwell's 1984. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, that novel. So the final look of Cardassia, Zimmerman explained, was Spartan, uncompromising, and merciless are all adjectives that you could use to describe Cardassia. Mm-hmm. I thought that. And it's a map painting, basically, right? painting, which probably Dan Curry did, based on Herman's thoughts. Yes.

That map painting looked like the Thames River in London to me. Oh, yeah. It looked like St. Paul's on one side. Okay. Yeah. Like an aerial view of London. Actually, that picture looked really pretty to me. Yeah.

The inside the courtroom was like bleak. Yeah. Yeah. The courtroom was actually a redress of your holo suite set. Oh, really? Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting.

So, yeah, but it did, it didn't look that bad. And the funny, maybe Dan Curry was thinking of London when he did do that. It looked like the Thames. It did. I mean, it has the Cardassian sort of, you know, arches or whatever. But the layout of that river, you. The way the river runs, it looks exactly like shots of the Thames. Yeah.

Like maybe that inspired the. Yeah. Template. It was a template. Yes. Exactly. Yep. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer?

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See Mint Mobile for details. Well, we go into a processing area next. O'Brien's pushed into a spotlight here. Did you see that this was a movie crane they were using for the spotlight? Did you notice? No. That was a stage crane. That's what that was? Oh, my goodness.

The spotlight's kind of floating around. Yeah. it was just a regular cream a fisher stage crane yeah oh my god they're photographing the crane the actual equipment used to make Hollywood magic they're using that wow it worked I mean I guess if you don't if you're not familiar with the equipment you wouldn't notice it but to me I was like oh wow they didn't even try to cover it up and make it look like it looks like crane to me well look how much money they spent on the actors with the Cardassian makeup. Yeah. So it's a good thing. The sets were sparse and a little extra crane. Let's throw that one in the mix. That's a freebie. Exactly. Exactly.

Well, the floating spotlight is on Miles. He's standing in the spotlight. He keeps giving his name and rank over and over. So they just decide to process him. They throw him up against a wall, cut his clothes off. Oh, they made him take his clothes off. They ripped it off of it. They ripped them. They cut them in the back. It was awful. They cut it from the back.

Then they do something to his eye, like some laser thing goes in his eye. And then they reach down with these pliers. And from where we see at our perspective, we don't know what he's doing. Like I had no clue they were pulling a tooth out. I was like, oh, my tooth out. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that. I actually got kind of teary watching it.

It was like, I know this is acting, but this is really hard to watch my friend go through. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it was brutal. It was a deep dive into kind of torture and brutality, yeah. It was painful. Yeah, they pull a tooth, they give him shots. Yeah. They cut a lock of hair from him.

And then we meet Macbar for the first time, who's going to turn out to be the judge, I guess, in the sense. Yeah, and isn't she a joy? Isn't she? Well, at first she seems like she's on his side. She's like, you know, I thought you, I told you, you were told he, should not be harmed right it's like at the beginning she was defending him right just for one sentence exactly i'm with you for one sentence and one sentence alone um what was that what was that thing that covered his face did you guys okay so after they pull his teeth out his tooth out they put

him the thing then they put some type of like little glowing light on him they goes near near do you remember that at the end i'm like what is that a little bit yeah i don't know no clue what that was more torture torture light torture light I love it so macbar's there she's not happy that he's injured they're like we just restrained him

we didn't do anything yeah right we just saw it it was torture she does take miles o'brien kind of walks him out apologizes for how he's been treated he's he's tossed these a set of clothes but he's kind of just holding it over his you know private parts as he

you know shuffles through the the prison area. Yeah, when he was sitting in the chair and you could see his eddy-bitty butt crack and it was like, no, he's really sitting there naked, poor man. I know. You saw his butt.

I didn't see his butt crack. You saw his butt crack. You watched it twice. Yes, I did. It's probably not a digital butt crack. I wasn't looking though. He wasn't looking for it. It just happened to be there when you glance.

Exactly. Yes. Exactly. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh. he has been undressed in multiple episodes. More than anybody else in your show. Maybe Nana.

Nana has been undressed a few times. Really? I'm going to vote O'Brien. He took a milk bath. She did, but I'm still going to say. But that was her other character, her, you know. That's true. Remember? If you're talking about mirror universe.

We're not talking about mirror universe. We're talking about real universe. And that would be O'Brien showing a lot of skin over and over again. Yes. Okay. Well, she apologized. for how he was treated. She tells Miles he'll have a conservator

soon and he's like what's that. He's confused. He doesn't even know what he's accused of and she just basically says, well, all in good time. Just be patient. Poor Miles O'Brien. Very sad. Well, we go to Commander's office next. Kiko's there

super upset. Miles told her all about the torture on Settlic 3. She's heard him talk about this. She knows that he must be terrified and that this is horrible and she sort of walks out of Cisco's office and he chases her out to reassure her and say everything's going to be okay when a call comes in. The initial scene when they're inside the office, Cisco's first line says Starfleet has ordered the Enterprise, the Prokofiev and the Valdemar to the border of the DMZ.

Well, that is homage to the next generation because they had just a. aired their final episode, and then this episode, the next week of DS9 airs. So they were sort of- Yeah, so that was referring to the end of PROS. Oh, yeah, to the end of TNG in a way. Give them a little nod. Yeah, a little nod to TNG. It is.

So that's one little thing I want to throw in there. Macbar appears on the big screen, says Miles's trial is scheduled. The verdict's already been decided, as we had heard before. So don't stress about that. Don't worry. It's already done. No worry. Yeah.

Odo volunteers, he asks about, does he have a nester yet? And he would like to volunteer to be Miles's nestor. So clearly Odo knows some of the, you know, Cardassian ways. Because Deep Space Nine was the Cardassian. Yeah, Terak Nore, right? Yeah. Well, what's funny about this scene? What's that Terak Nore?

Deep Space Nine was Terak Nore? That's right. That's the Kardashian way of calling it. That was their name. their name for it, since they built it. I forgot that. You forgot that. I just forgot that.

This is good that we're kind of. See, when you build the restaurant, you can name the restaurant. It's been a while. Yeah, I know. Sounds like a planet to me. It does. It does. But what was interesting to me, I don't know if either of you picked this up, but Renee

refers to that term, N-E-S-T-O-R, as Nestor. Okay? And then she, Mok-Bar, initially says Nestor, but then at the end, she goes, Nestor. so it's almost like the Vulcan way of use to censors and censors yes okay but censor censor censor that would be a Judy Brown yeah yes it would be a Judy Brown because I believe if the first person to say the word and that's the Star Trek way and it would be it would be Renee said Nestor so she should follow Nestor from the rest from that and she did when she responded to him but at the end she goes I grant you to be Nestor she changes the pronunciation

It's no longer... But we did that on Voyager with Chakotay. Chakotay. It took us months before we all settled in on the same way of pronouncing his name.

Yeah. But it's so funny because it's the same syllable. It's the same sound as censors, which is Tim Russ and Vulcan, the Vulcan pronunciation of it.

Leonard Nimoy said censors. But everyone else in Star Trek says censor. So we don't say censors. So that's what's happened here. Nestor and Nestor. American. We're American.

We're American. We're American and it's a censor. Well, Odo volunteers to be is Nestor. And Odo's the Nestor. These poor people. Would you just tell the story, man? I'm trying to tell you. Macbar says, Odo, you can't be the nestor.

That's how she says it. Yes, she says. It can't be the nestor because you need credentials. And he says, I've got them. back in the Tarek nor days. Yeah. Thanks to Golda Kott. Right.

Yes. She's not happy about this, but she's like, okay, fine. You can be the Nestor. Nestor. You can be the American if you want. I have to tell you, how often is it you can say, I am so happy you played that Goldukot card. That's true.

Because it was like never. Never, exactly. But that moment, oh, thank goodness. Thank goodness. Yes. Well, she agrees. And then she tells them that his execution is scheduled for next week. And Keko goes along with Odo and they head out.

Family is allowed to go. The Nestor is allowed to go. Cisco wanted to go, but he's not allowed to go. He's not allowed to go. No. Now we are in O'Brien's cell. And now we're introduced to the conservator. Or is it the conservator?

I like conservator. You want to say conservator? Okay, so Kovat appears, the Cardassian Conservatoire. And it's so interesting because these public defenders, all they do, they do it for show. There's nothing that they're doing to get these clients off of the clients. No, it's not about defeating the charges because the charges and the vert. Everything's already decided. So it's all about putting on the show.

But like Terry said, the minute he came on screen, we both thought, this is Herman Munster. there's no way he's still alive how can he have been in this episode yeah it was so weird it was so bizarre seeing him then he started talking and i thought oh no he's not no yeah not the same voice not the same he was good though fritz weaver was good with uh he was really good yeah he was great yeah and you know at that sometimes when you're older and doing all prosthetic makeup it's it can be the most disability you know it may distract you distract you from being able to act and you get really stiff. No, he was great.

He was so good. And he really explains the role of the court and the rules and everything about Cardassian court, which is pretty much as an American, we watch this episode and we watch this scene. We're like, this is so unfair. There's no, there's no fairness here. There's no equanimity. It's all about, yeah, one side. And the state is always right.

The actual individual has no say. The state, it comes first, but before everything. And even O'Brien's like, why do I even need you? I mean, there's no reason for me to even have you as my lawyer. You're not doing anything. But O'Brien is still very intent on saying that he is not going to concede. He's not guilty of crime. And he holds this entire procedure in contempt.

And then Kovat actually flips that. He's like, okay, that's good. Maintain that level of arrogance at the courtroom. And we should put on a very good show indeed, is what he says. I love the way Kovat explains their justice, though. He talks about, well, once again, justice will be done. Our lives will be reaffirmed, safe and secure. Here in Kardassia, all crimes are solved.

All criminals are punished. And all endings are happy. I love this. Like, it's just delivering, you know, the perfect story to everybody, even though it bears no resemblance to reality or the truth. But they just want everybody to be reassured. and kind of the population sort of lives through these trials, these, you know, public trials. And they put them on the big screen out in town.

Like, as you're walking down the street, there's a big screen. Yeah, like a TV show. Very Orwellian, yeah, for sure. We go to the weapons locker, I think, next. This is where our heroes back on Deep Space Nine, they see a bunch of metal sitting around the weapons locker, but the photon warheads are gone. crates, crates full of crap metal. Yeah, crates full of scrap metal. And they think that maybe the metal was transferred at the precise moment that the warheads were stolen.

That's why the sensors didn't detect anything. They do see that Miles O'Brien's voice signature is what opened the door. But then there was this saturation field that blocked the scanner so they don't know exactly what happened once Miles came in. Right. But it seems to them like, I wanted to say, wait, if it was, was Miles he would have erased his voice too yeah yes because he's that good yeah this is where he leave that yeah this is where I'll say like if we didn't have that earlier scene if if that never existed and we we came to this moment and they're like we heard his voice and we didn't know that

someone recorded or anything we can learn that later but right now we didn't know that we would feel like oh maybe Miles did this you know yeah that's that's that's why That would be much more powerful. So much better. Yeah. Right. It just, it ruined that. Don't show, don't show Boone dropping the smile.

Don't show that at all. Don't show Boone even playing the recording thing. No, you just cut that right out. No, yeah. O'Brien doesn't bump into him. We just cut from the little elevator thing to him being on the runabout. I have a whole different opening to this episode. I'll talk about it in our missing scenes.

I'm telling you. So this, yeah. That whole opening to me ruined. Right. Yeah. Yeah. In the trash. But anyway, they hear his voice, the saturation field, so they don't know what

happened. Bashir gets really mad when they think that Miles did it because Bashir's buddies with Miles. I like that. He didn't have much to say, but he got mad. Yeah. I mean, yeah, because he's, of course, they're buddies. Well, back in ops.

Kira was like first to, she was like, she's very quick to like. to, like, blame people. She's very paranoid. Yeah, Miles could have done it. She is. Yeah. Because she's the one that says, give them to the marquee. Because Bashir asked, what would he do with these photon warheads?

And Kira immediately says, give them to the marquee. So she's already on that trail. I've got to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. But they don't show her unnotting it. And then suddenly she's on his side. No.

Yeah. That must have been a little maddening to play. Yeah. Yeah, it was a little jumpy, some of the points of view and the attitudes for sure. Anyway, Cisco says he wants to find the other guy. And they're like, what are you talking about? He goes, the one that was going to receive the weapons. That's the marquee that you were talking about.

He wants to find any possible marquee that could have been on the station recently. So that's how they kind of finish that scrap metal beat. Yeah. Back in O'Brien's cell, Odo visits O'Brien as the nest door. This is a really sweet scene. It is a good scene. I thought Odo coming in, he was kind of drilling. miles a bit at the top he's like you you know did you do this you know he was putting the pressure

on him yes is what I'm saying but I thought that was good yeah it was good that he was like trying to clear everything and and then Miles with that speech where it's really emotional about honor and integrity and he wants his daughter to trust him and beautifully done beautifully yeah that was a really epic monologue yeah and we don't have a lot of moments like that with for o'brien well for any of us but O'Brien especially, you know, where you see a grown man sharing his vulnerability. Yeah. And he also says how much he doesn't really know. They don't know each other, Odo and O'Brien.

Yeah. So this is a great opportunity where they get to know each other a little bit better. Yeah. It's a great scene for both characters. That's not the, we love it. It's a good scene. Well, it feels like Odo comes in hard. Like, did you do this?

tell me, you know, everything you know. And after that speech, he believes it, just like we do as an audience. Like Miles is innocent. And then Odo says, all right, you know, you don't have to be a martyr. Not everybody who's accused has to die. He basically says, when we go in there tomorrow in court, don't cry, just look innocent, stay strong. And this is where he tells Miles finally, I'm your nestor. And he's going to try his best to help him. So Odo also knew about pulling the teeth. Did you notice that by the way? What? Did he? Yeah, because he talks about how it 10 years old, the Kardashians all have to have a molar baby or small molar pulled for their identification. Odo says that? Oh, yeah. Okay. All Cardassians have, are one tooth short. Oh, got it. Okay,

so we're back in ops. I wrote down, Dax is really smart again. Oh, I love you. That's great. She's always figuring this crap out. She says, let me do it. It's great. You analyze the voice. You're like, that's not Miles. It was reconstructed. The data wave, the sound waves or whatever. Yeah.

You're smart. Smart science stuff. Pretty cool. And that's kind of where tech is now, which is crazy. AI can actually take a voice recording of any person, famous or not. And they can then extract everything and make that voice say whatever they want. You know what I'm saying? Which is scary.

Very scary. Well, Dax figures out this was. AI, basically. Yeah. And Gira comes in. She found 12 people from the DMZ or the militarized zone who've been on the station could be Machi. Right.

She does identify Boone though. Raymond Boone is his name. People saw him talking to Miles on the promenade. And immediately they kind of hone in on Boone. Back on Cardassia on the street, it's like Times Square. The Jumbotron is up there. big screen TV reality TV we're watching the court start

and we cut inside as MacBarr starts the trial asks right away if Miles wants to confess I love that he said no thanks yeah that was great thanks yeah not going to do it great delivery so then she says okay well if you're not going to confess let's start the trial Kako and Odo come in

Odo immediately asked the judge if he can confer with the conservator and the judge is like hey you're not supposed to even talk to me that was so weird wasn't that weird yeah she's like do you know how this works you're not supposed to talk to me just talk to your client the the guys that's accused and he plays innocent he's like oh it's my first time i loved i loved his oh my goodness very funny the courtroom looked very cool too very dramatic I liked it up on that I thought it looked super scary

yeah yeah bleak it reminded me of what's that movie metropolis that old black and white German film from like the 30s or 30s or something yeah wow but uh Odo tells Kovat sneaks over to Kovat says that

there's new evidence he tells Kovat that's what I meant And Mach bar you're doing the hard day on everything on everyone MacBowat. MacBarr. And so mock bar and Kobach. Well, we started being silly. I know. Exactly. I got my rodeo hat on. Because the thing is. And the reason why I remember this, I don't want to be the nitpick person. But I remember this because I kept thinking, Cardassians pronounce it. All their vowels are soft. So they would say Mr. Wong if they saw my name. If Cardassians were real, they wouldn't say Wang. They'd say Wong. So that's why I was like mock bar. You should go to Cardassia. I should. I feel just at home right there. All right. As soon as we're done this podcast, I'm going to jump in a shuttle. I think you'll hate it. Can I bar?

I think you'll really hate it. Will you help me get into a runabout? Please, Terry, please. I know you love to travel, but I don't think you should go there. I shouldn't go. Don't go to Cardassie. No, let's go in safari instead. All right.

Way more fun. This is a moment, though, where I have to say, so Odo goes over to have a private conversation with, how does you pronounce it? Yeah, the conservator. The Nestor. no mock bar covot covot covot it's a game show Odo is the nestor Odo's the nestor and he's talking to

Covot covot yes Edwin Edwin Fred Gwynne Armin muster yes but this is a moment Oh my God it's so Friday isn't it it is This is a moment where I thought the shot making was off because you've got this wide two shot of a private conversation. Yes. In that kind of shot, it suggests that everyone in the room can hear what they're And then it cuts over to Miles silently looking around in a close-up like this.

And I was like, flip that, flip that. Yeah. Miles should be in a wide shot looking small. I remember thinking, I don't understand what's happening. Yeah. Oh. Because of that. Because if everyone can hear them.

And then he's looking around, it's like that looks like he can. I'm glad you said that. This was one of those moments. I was like, flip it. You've got the sizes wrong in the tone of what's what story that's supposed to be happening. But he does tell the conservator that there's new evidence. Kovot doesn't care. He doesn't, he says no new evidence is allowed, dude. Like, you don't know what's going on here. Odo asked the judge again, tells her that there's new evidence. She gets really mad. She says, he's in contempt of court, and it's going to be very painful for him. Does he talk about his teeth in this or something?

Doesn't he say something like, I don't have any teeth to pull or something? Yeah, he does. Doesn't he? Yeah, I don't know where it is. I never thought about that. Yes, but he doesn't have any teeth. Well, he does, but he could shape shift so that, you know, he only does to talk, right, so that we understand what he's saying.

That would be my, that's my personal take on it. That makes sense. Yeah. So they go to pull it, you'll just make it turn into goo. What, goo, yeah. You'll be pulling goo, not a tooth. Mm-hmm. I feel bad for Odo.

He's just trying really hard, but he doesn't know the rules. I regret that I have no teeth to offer your Bureau of Identification. Yeah. That was funny, though. I just never thought about the teeth, you know, like you think Odo's humanoid, but he's not. He's not at all. Mm-mm. I know it's easy to forget that.

Did you talk about Keiko coming in? Keiko comes in in the scene, did it? Keiko and Odo come in at the very top. They're already in there. She's being kind of quiet. And at the end, doesn't the judge say, like, oh, new evidence? Sure. I expected Starfleet was going to make something up with her fancy technology or something like that.

Machbar also gives Keiko the chance to testify against her husband, who she completely was like, no. I have no intention of testifying against my husband. So she shuts that down very quickly. Do you remember the moment? They are the cutest couple. they're so cute aren't they cute they are they're cute they're so well matched as a couple do you remember the moment when odo goes over to talk to the conservator um kovat yeah and the kovat goes please please just don't ruin this for me i'm only a year away from retirement i know that was

great oh i'm glad you said that yeah that was hilarious yeah there was a lot of funny bits in this that was funny part of it yes covats reaction at the very end of the trial when they're released he has the last line you remember that's right he's like they're going to kill me for this like he's like what happened and then otto says you won or something up the um right he's like i won they're going to kill me they're going to kill me yeah so there's a lot of funny stuff in this and avery again like i don't mean to pile on avery's shot making avery did great with those funny moments like okay that's what i'm going to say i think avery is a budding genius comic director in terms of like comedic sitcomy or whatever or rom-com you know he would do really well with that

yeah wait till you see far beyond the stars that okay okay yeah i'm excited to see the evolution i'm sure he gets better i'm sure you're gonna enjoy it very much good i bet we go to the commander's office next they're interrogating boon denies everything yeah but cisco's says, you know what? Keep him for questioning. Yeah, there was a funny look with Cisco and Kira near the end when he says, Boone says, I haven't done anything. I don't have anything to be worried about. Again, probably in Avery thing, but I remember Kira and Cisco turned their heads to each other and then they turned back with a smile or something. It was like a very staged moment that I thought, oh, I thought it made me laugh. Okay. I didn't catch that, but I have to

watching it there's some good you mean like they were calling him out on his yeah like we don't believe him do you believe him no I don't believe him

hold him oh yeah like nice try but no so it was synchronized it was that it was very synchronized yeah look and then like that yeah yeah

another probably Avery bit there made me laugh it was good yeah we go to the infirmary next it's very dark as Bashir comes in

yeah The lights don't work. What? It's weird because without any lights there, I didn't even know we were in the infirmary. I'm like, where are we? I was completely confused. I thought it was his quarters at first. I did too.

I did too. Yeah. I thought it was his quarters until he goes around the corner and then you see more of the infirmary in there. Yeah. Yeah. Right. A mystery man appears in the shadows. And from a distance in the background, Bashir's standing there in the foreground.

He says it wasn't the maquis. We didn't do this. We have nothing to do with it. And Bashir tries to talk to him, but before he can hear any more, he turns around and the mystery man is gone. He's not even credited. He's not even, there's no credit for that person. That's weird. It is very weird.

I mean, why wouldn't, I mean, he got residuals, right, for using his voice, for sure. But they didn't credit him at all. All we have is the credit for Cardassian voice and not Machi voice, which should have been that. Yeah, there should have been something. Yeah. Well, we go back in the question. courtroom and Avec is testifying there's

were there torpedoes in the courtroom? What? I think there was a torpedo in the courtroom. Oh, as evidence. Okay, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We finally see these stolen torpedoes.

Okay, for a second. I'm like, what? Avec is testifying now. He blames the maquis for this. He's got, he basically says, I got information from reliable sources that it was the maquis. And then Odo objects. He's like, so how did you get all this

information again? like exactly who? And he goes, reliable sources. So he's just full of it. And MacBarr takes that as an acceptable answer. He's like, no, that's totally, that's valid in this courtroom. As long as it's a reliable source. If you say it's reliable, then we believe you.

Yeah. The weirdest form of justice I've ever seen. All right. Yeah. Odo is, Odo is very upset about this. Yes. And she's getting, MacBarr is getting tired of Odo. She now says, this is the longest trial in the history of

The history of Cardassia. I loved. She was very funny. Did you notice by the- Yeah. Did you notice, by the way, here's some shot making that I did like of Avery's.

He was shooting a very low angle on MacBarr up on that pedestal to make her look very ominous and strong and imposing. And he was shooting a very extreme down angle on anyone in the court when they were talking to her. Right.

So that I thought was very well done. Yeah. low angle mock bar anyone not mock mock bar high angle yeah like her point of view looking down down at them like their little ants yeah yeah okay cool and uh then we cut to the infirmary and boon is there they have questions for them uh they started they started asking uh so you haven't talked to your parents or your wife in like in eight years and uh they they pinpoint that it was right after setlic three that he kind of cut off all this communication and he says he was discharged from Starfleet around the same time.

So as they're revealing what they know, he starts to run. And they put him in a chair. And I thought they were going to pull a Cardassian on him. Like they were going to torture him, cut his clothes off. Full a tooth off. Waterboarding. Waterboarding. But they just give him a shot.

And then Bashir starts taking a medical tricourt. And I was like, what is he doing with a medical tricor? He's examining him. He's examining his DNA, basically. Back in the courtroom, they're in recess, and Keiko and Miles are talking, and he doesn't want her to be there when he's sentenced. He still believes like he's got no chance in this thing. Oh, wouldn't you?

Yeah, I would. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't look good for him. No. Well, the trial resumes. He doesn't want to speak, but Macbart insists you have to testify. And Kovat asks him, were you abused as a child?

This is his defense lawyer, right? Yeah. She's not helping. Or was it spousal abuse? Spousal abuse? No. Any abuse that's happened. No abuses.

So weird. And then the judge asks how many Kardashians he killed. This was an awkward moment. It was. Because Miles is like, none. At first he goes, none, I haven't killed any. goes no in the war right he's like well none since the war and then she's got a quote i think about you know you you said something about uh the bloody cardies can't be trusted yeah and he he admits

it i didn't understand why he was admitting this she's like you have to admit it you have to tell the truth why can't he lie like what does it matter why just say no well no i didn't kill anybody No, I didn't say that. Who said that he said that? There was a reason. He didn't. He said no at first. Yeah.

And then there was something she said that made. Like he admitted it. I thought it was just her saying, you have to tell the truth. That's the part that I was like, oh, oh, I have to tell the truth. Well, yes, then I'll tell the truth. No, you just lie. Like, why would you, if you're not getting a fair trial, why would you give them anything to help them? That was how I felt.

But the fact that she knows what he said, it means there are, there are Cardassian spies everywhere for him, for them to know. I know she says it publicly stated, but still, there's a lot of underhanded things happening where the Cardassians are placed. It was a confusing moment to me, the fact that he's admitting anything. I don't know why he would, he should just say, no, I'm not talking about me. Well, he said, I declined to answer, right? And Makbar said, well, there are no grounds in Cardassian law which permit you

to decline, answer the question. You know, so you can't even decline. You have to say something yes or no. I guess that's what I'm saying is like, just because someone says you have to, like, if I say, Garrett, you have to tell me your darkest secret. You'd be like, no, I don't. Right. So he could just hold it.

Why do you? Yeah, just hold it. Or just say what's on Terry's hat. What does your hat say again, Terry? It says, mind your own damn business. Yeah, that's what he should have been wearing. That's what he should have been wearing that hat saying, mind your own damn business. Mock bar.

Yeah. Yeah. He could have said, oh, I have to answer. Fine. Mind your own damn business is my answer. Well, just as Miles is about to be sentenced, Cisco, and Boone enter. And when MacBarr looks over and sees Boone, suddenly she sets Miles free. You're free to go with Cisco. So this is the very first mention that the Kardashians use cosmetic alterations in order to infiltrate their enemies. It's the very first time in DS9. Later examples of this. were CESCA on Star Trek Voyager. Oh, yes. And in discovery. Discovery had one.

Is that right? Well, all of this gets wrapped up. So Miles is set free. Back on the runabout, the whole thing is explained. Miles and Keiko are going to get dropped off for their vacation. We learn in the scene. But yeah, as you said, Boone was missing his first molar. And the DNA analysis confirmed that he was Cardassian.

He was surgically altered. I guess the real boon was taken prisoner on Setlik 3 and died in detention. I think they mentioned his wife even said he came back from captivity, a very different man. Right. So, yeah, all of this is starting to make sense here. Also, Keko mentions that many people after Setlik 3 were not themselves. That means there's even more Cardassian cosmetic alterations, guys. Like that teaser.

Yeah. Oh, boy. Let's see if they take advantage. of that. Let's see. Looks like you know what happens. I don't really. I don't remember.

I'll just mind my own damn business. I don't remember. Just mind your own damn business, Robbie. But they do drop them off on their vacation at the end of this, which I thought was very, very sweet. It was. It was. Yeah. Because Miles is like, wait, I don't have my camera, my holocaumma.

I don't have my pads, my work and nothing to read. Keiko's like, perfect. It's nice. cute ending. Cute ending. Yeah. Yeah. If you look at this as a rom-com episode between Keko and her husband with funny moments,

it's very good if you look at it that way. Hanging on the razor's edge of a Cardassian death. Yes. Nothing says comedy more. Yes. It says rom-com, like a little Cardassian death trial. What's that lesson? But you tell us your lesson for this episode, Robbie McNeil.

don't write those scenes that give away the whole plot in the first teaser of the of the whole show maybe start with that I'll get into that more in our okay what's your real lesson my real theme is that if you're truly if if if you or me or anybody is truly innocent don't give up on trying to show the truth to reveal the truth because the truth will set you free yeah so for ourselves like live your truth and if you're innocent if you really you know um haven't done anything wrong in the end like the truth will come out if you keep trying so that's my lesson there that's good tear do you want to tear well i couldn't think of anything better than standing i mean but then what

you're saying ravi stand up for yourself yeah tell the truth and don't do anything other than trust yourself. I mean, he knew he was, he was innocent. Yeah. 100%. I don't suppose there's anything you can do in those situations, but I think people that don't trust that it's important to stand by their integrity and their truth. They're the ones who give false confessions because they're scared. You've got to stick with what you know is true. Garrett, what about you? Well, I am on the same page with you, Robbie, because I did write the truth will set you free. That was my exact sentiment on this one so yeah i think that is the lesson here well even if you know ultimately he could have gotten executed yeah yeah but if that's the case and it's still better to

go out standing up for what you believe of course of course to concede and say i am guilty yeah you're yeah you're gonna die anyway didn't the the judge said this is the longest trial in Krodassian history. Because he kept insisting on his innocence, it made this the longest trial ever. And if it wasn't long, he would have been sentenced before Mark Grayson, a.k.a. Boone, showed up. And so by insisting and making this the longest trial in history, it actually, that was part of what helped save him. Yeah. The winning submission on our Patreon poll for the theme or moral of this episode is submitted by Sherry Kidner, O'Brien, suffer. That is so grim. That's so grim. That's not a moral. That's a punishment.

Well, interesting that the winning submission is O'Brien must suffer because according to the Star Trek Deep Space Nine companion, they list tribunal or tribunal among the annual Torture O'Brien episodes, sometimes referred to as O'Brien must suffer episodes. So it's a thing, Robbie. They actually, you know, O'Brien suffers probably as much as Harry Kim suffered throughout Voyager. It's true. You were the one on our show. Yeah. Yeah. O'Brien's the Harry Kim. I look forward to much more O'Brien's suffering. I do too. And I mean that in a loving way. In a loving way, exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you everyone for tuning in to our recap and discussion of the episode Tribunal. And join us next week when we will be recapping and discussing the episode,

the Gem Hadar, the final episode of season two with Armin. So we want to thank Terry for joining us and co-hosting with this episode. Thank you, Terry. Thank you. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little bit more Terry. And for everyone else, we'll see you next time.

Thanks. Bye.