The Delta Flyers - Vortex

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode is Vortex, hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry Farrell. Vortex: A fugitive from the Gamma Quadrant attempts to trade evidence about Odo's people for freedom. We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Janet K Harlow, Brian Barrow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Vikki Williams, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Matt Norris, & Izzy JafferOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Chris Knapp, Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas,  Matthew Gravens, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Mary Jac Greer, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Tom Paynter, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Steven Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Mars DeVore, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, & Sam MikelicAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Meredith Hudes-Lowder, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Samantha Hunter, Jamason Isenburg, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Ryan Benoit, John Richardson, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Preston Meyer, Lisa Hill, Stacy Davis, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Pamela Miller, Rik Moran, Jan Hanford, Constance, Loretta Reyes, & Jeremy McWilliamsThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Worm Hall with Dax, Cork, Tom, and Harry. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors. First off, we have our science officer extraordinaire, Terry Farrell, Dax. We also have our pilot extraordinaire, Robert Duncan McNeil, aka Tom Paris, and myself, your forever Brinson, Garrett Wong. For the complete version of this amazing version of this podcast, check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up today to become a patron for your extra awesome bonus material. Hello, Terry. Hello, Robbie. Terry, what's been going on? What's happening with you? Well, I went to Los Angeles to be interviewed for the Michael Westmore documentary. Oh, how did that go? Oh, it was so great to see them. Was he there?

You were together with him? We were in his house. I haven't seen him for a while. But you know what's so crazy is it's, well, it's like with us. It's as if no time has gone by when you see each other, right? There's no, skip, there's no, oh, I feel out of touch with you. No. It feels natural.

It's natural. It's there. And he's such a warm, just down to earth. He's such a sweet man. He is such a sweet man. Did you get to know McKenzie? you met her right at some point or no me i know she was on her show yeah yeah she really was she really yeah she did yeah did you know what's so funny is i if i met her it's when

she was really young and we were first doing the show yeah because i don't remember meeting her as a woman no no i mean when you guys started your show she was a kid if i met her and she re-invigorated the makeup line for the family brand yeah i'm so happy i'm so happy she did. She's a smart little cookie. But I'm glad you had a good time doing the documentary. That's really good. Oh, it was so great. And we had Michael, um, Michael, of course Michael was there. Jonathan West and our cameraman Chris was there. Um, yeah. I had such a huge crush on him when we were. Who? But he, you're a cameraman? Chris. Yeah. Chris. Well, I don't remember which is he. I'm trying to remember Jonathan West was your D.P. I don't. Yeah.

Oh, Chris, the camera man. Chris, the cameraman, getting to see up close and personal. The camera department was always the cool kids. Like, it doesn't matter what show. Camera is just the cool kids. The cool kids. Yeah. And then the grips are always like the troublemakers and.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. They're like the kids kicking it in the alley, right? Yeah. Playing kick the can. Wow. Yeah.

Okay, Robbie. So who are the nerds then? Who are the nerds of the nerds? We were the nerds. We were the nerds. We were the nerds. We had to sleep and know our lines. Yeah, we were the nerds.

Oh my gosh. Terry, I just want to say one thing that I've noticed when I've been watching some, you know, some of our episodes, some of our podcast episodes, is that your voice is so silky smooth. Really? It's a mid from radio. It really. Oh, my God. Thank you. As I was listening and watching, I was like, wow.

I've never, ever told her this, but I'm going to, I'm going to tell you this now. So now it's in public record. Everyone knows that I've, I've complimented you. The voice. The voice. Thank you. That is such a nice thing for you to say. Yes.

Harry the voice, Farrell. It really means a lot to me. From now on, I'm going to say, like, Robby. That's my new career. Where's the voice? Do you know where the voice is right now? You're like, oh, she's in Albuquerque. I know where the voice is.

The voice. You know, I had to work on it, though, when I was modeling my first commercial i had to they got me a voice coach because my voice register was so super high oh it was higher oh my lord i was so insecure and nervous and just as a person yeah yeah very uh yeah in that wild um so then my first commercial was mabeline but i kept with expert eyes uh-huh expert i kept on with the voice lessons because i had this audition coming up for a show called Paper Dolls. Right.

And so when I read for the TV movie version, which Daryl Hannah and Alexander Paul did, I wasn't quite ready. So I stayed in acting class and I did my voice work and what would they do? Do you remember in voice work? Or like, what would you do? Oh, it was so hard because I. Reciting things or, yeah. Singing.

Singing. Oh, singing voice work. Wow. Yeah, to try to get my register lower. But then I think acting classes also happen to help, too, to be speaking to the back of the room. And because the teacher knew that the series was going to come up for me to audition for. Like, you know, when your agents and teachers are all in cahoots when you're young. So she was really hard on me about speaking to the back of the room.

And I see in these shows, my voice is small. It's more tentative. yeah i'm very nervous yet now you're terry the voice feral back then well certainly in the first season even in this 12th episode i feel like my i don't have my voice yet i felt intimidated and small and like i didn't belong yeah interesting isn't it it's such a tell people's voices yes yeah you can tell i i know One time I was directing this pilot and we had a lot of actors come into audition and one of the producers kept saying after the actors would come and go, they'd say, yeah, that actor just wasn't in their voice. Like they kept using that as a way to describe if someone was putting on an acting voice or something that was just, she was like.

Or just not grounded and confident. Not grounded, not strong, not authentic, that they were putting on. on a voice in some way. Yes, yes, yes. You know what I mean? That's kind of a dry. A dramatic voice or a whatever. Yeah, I thought that's interesting.

We got a couple birthdays to talk about. We have David Buck on February 23rd. Happy birthday, David. Happy birthday, David. We also have Matt Edmonds on February 26th. So happy birthday, Matt. Matt. Happy birthday, Matt.

Happy birthday, Matt. Yes. If you want to go even deeper into Voyager and or Deep Space 9, check us out at Patreon. We have tiers ranging from $3 to $260 a month, fun perks, including all bonus segments, like our ratings of the episodes, winner and loser picks for the episodes,

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birthday shoutouts on the podcast. You can even get autographs and cool swag mailed right to you. Plus, we have monthly Zooms where you can join us and Armin or Terry for relaxed discussion and Q&A. Go to www.patrion.com forward slash the Delta Flyers forward slash membership to check out what we have to offer and pick a tier.

here we go with a limerick i see terry get her notes ready she has some terry the poet let out no terry the voice feral don't say poet but she already has one nickname you know throw another nickname in there so much pressure yeah okay here's my limbrick here we go a secret deal to buy an egg somehow goes wrong and a twin is killed when the stranger's gun is drawn but the stranger helps Odo with an escape plan that's Soso, but the changeling wants to know where he truly belongs. I love that you put Soso. Look at this. Look at the creativity that McNeil has here. Oh, my God. All right. Coming in strong. Coming in strong, Robbie. Thank you. Kicking us off. Here's my haiku for Vortex. Here we go. Crodin's on the run. Akel wants death.

penalty. Odo has a heart. Oh, Odo does have a heart. Yeah, that's it. That I think is the first time I've heard you not make an actual joke out of the whole thing. Me? That was sincere. I know.

Usually, he's trying to find the funny version. I'm always usually trying to find the funny. Yeah. That's a serious. Maybe especially if you're last. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

And we both have been serious. And then I had the lot. the funnyness. Okay. What do you have? Terry. Terry the voice, Farrell. Be kind. I'm not the writers you guys are. Okay, okay. I love it. He is fragility, Mr. Black and White, confronting a false hope in a gray night. Lies, lies, lies to protect his only daughter. We see the truth and protect the father. He is stronger now, Mr. Gray, black and white. Hope is renewed to fight. and unite nice

oh your poems are very like symbolic and metaphor they're very poetic mine are just like little limericks good job from limericks but yours you I have yours are poetic look I looked it up online and then I thought okay what what they said

was too hard for me to do so what I thought I do is write a story and not worry about it rhyming but And what I did take from what they said about writing poetry is to talk about feelings and to try to make them metaphors.

So that's why I thought gray night. Yeah, it's black and white. Yeah. I like it. Your poetry is more poetic than our poetry. Yes. You are the most poetic of all. You're inspiring me to learn something new.

And maybe you're going to inspire us to be a little bit more poetic. A little more serious. I would like that. no i don't mean you have to be more serious but it always makes us all feel good to inspire others right to be creative absolutely yeah this episode vortex was written by sam ralph i want to i want to comment on one thing there's no story by it's just a written by that's it written by sam ralph was a friend of jean roddenmary's oh jean had produced a pilot he wrote i think and i look this up sam ralph he He passed away in 1993, so right around the time he wrote this, he passed away probably that

year. So this was his last project that he wrote. Oh, he probably wrote it in 92, which is when we were filming this, probably, episode 12. Yeah. But he was nominated for an Oscar in 1953 for his very first screenplay. It was a Western called Naked Spur, where The Naked Spur nominated for an Oscar. An Oscar. I feel like we need to watch this now.

The naked spur. The naked spur. It's kind of sharp. Yeah. A couple other things about this episode, Rick Colby. Rick directed this episode. The one guest star I do want to mention is Cliff DeYoung, who plays Croton. Cliff DeYoung was actually in the running for Cisco.

What? What? No. That's so hard to imagine, isn't it? I love his talent. I really love his talent, but I do not see him as Cisco. As Cisco? He was considered for the role of Cisco for a while.

He's not physically imposing enough either. No, but in the beginning, Robbie, didn't Cliff, didn't Cliff's portrayal of Croden remind you of Brad Dorff's portrayal of Souter on Voyager in a way? That's sort of like, you know, a little man egg and a little bit, just kind of cool. But also, like, you don't know. He's a mysterious. Maybe he's going to kill you. Maybe he won't kind of thing, right?

Well, here's the thing about Cliff DeYoung. Cliff DeYoung, and this totally makes sense to me, he started as a lead singer in a rock band called Clear Light. Doesn't that make sense? Totally. He looks like he would have been a rock star. That again, not the captain of the station, but a rock star. His whole physicality, too.

He's very fluid. Let's talk about Randy Oglesby. Randy also, Randy Oglesby plays the really pissed. off Akel in here. He's the one that wants Cliff dead. The brother, the twin brother, who survived. Randy Oglesby also played Encounterpoint on Voyager. So he was on our show. Yes. He played one of, do you remember in Counterpoint? This was the, these were the aliens that that kind of came on our ship and they were looking all around to try to find the telepathic

aliens because anyone with telepathic abilities were considered evil, right? Well, certainly dangerous. I don't want to be around a telepath. I don't want anybody to know what I'm thinking. The pitch for counterpoint is basically sort of a World War II. You know, they said Voyager is hiding the Jews from the Nazis and this is what it was. And so the Jews were the telepaths. The Nazis were the counterpoint aliens that came in there.

That one guy that was kind of romancing Janeway at the same time, very militaristic, if you remember that. Randy Oglesby is the lead telepath alien. So he played that. Of course, we have Max Grudenchik. So I was a good start, Gordon Clap. Kathleen Garrett, interesting enough. She plays the Vulcan, the Vulcan commander or captain towards the end. Nice to see a Vulcan in this episode.

It was nice. She also played in Voyager where she impersonated Janeway. Oh, God, I remember that woman. But not the one. No, no, hold on. No, not the one that was, not the con one. No, the one from the play. The one that the play, remember there was.

Oh, yes. There was like old Greek trash. Or something. Alon Torres is stranded on the planet. Harry is somewhere off on the planet somewhere in the Greek tragedy. She portrayed Janeway. I just love that a lot of these actors moved around all the different shows. Just like Armin was on TNG or, you know.

Yeah. Well, he was the first one for us, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, the first person cast for Deep Space. Right. Right. That's right. Yeah.

The other interesting fact about Kathleen Garrett is that she, is that she acted in Robert Beltran's production of Hamlet that he threw on in. Yes. So it was like, what? Like, this is, you know, all these little connections here is cool. We also have Gordon Clap and Leslie Engelberg as the other accredited guest stars on there. So that's it for our guest stars. Yeah.

We start out with a exterior shot of DS9 and then right into a scene with Quark and Odo in Quarks. And Odo comes in and orders his usual. which is nothing. It's funny. Otto brings up the mirror, see, he said Miradon in the beginning, but it's actually Miradorn, right? There's an R in the end.

It's Miradorne. Is there? I don't know. I thought so, too. Yeah, it's Miradorn. Yes. Because I remember thinking Michael Dorn. Right.

That's what I said, too. Mirror Dorn sounds so close to Michael Dorn. So let's just say, Odo brings up the Michael Dorn ship that arrived recently, and he thinks that Cork is up to something that he's in cahoots with the Michael Dorn.

But the reality is that... The Mirador. I'm doing it on purpose. I'm messing with him. Odo also notices that another newcomer keeps avoiding his gaze. Quark looks over... Who looks like a rock star.

Yes, he does. The rock star in the corner. He was handsome. Yeah. Even with crazy makeup. Now that's something. The Miradoran twins that walk through... They're the same actor.

What? Right? No. No. That's what it says. That's where the credit is. Akell is credited as that actor and Rochel is credited as that actor as well. Wow. That's what I said, Robbie.

I don't know if that's what I was going to ask you how they did that. How did he cross him like that? It was a special effect. Then they would have had to shoot him and then have him leave, right? Shoot empty and then shoot with the other, with himself in a different position and then crossing. Wow. That seems so complicated. It is. And it certainly was then because, you know, it was new.

You guys can verify me on that one. But when I looked it up, it said Rochelle Akell, played by Randy Owlsby. I'm thinking that you're right because I know how they did it with me. That's what it says. There you go. On this spot. They do it with me later. Okay.

And that's what I had to do. So, yeah. There you go. All right. All right. If you say so, but I think it was a stunt man that had to take the shot and fall down. That's what I think. Okay.

All right. Does he ever speak? Did his brother ever speak? I was 30 years ago. Do you think I really remember? I know. Does any of us remember? I think they go first.

But when they come into Quarks, when they walk through Robbie, they both cross each other. Yeah, but here's what I'm getting at. You're saying that's no problem. That's, yeah, you could do that. But they both speak in the. I don't think they do. Yeah, they do. I'm looking at the script.

they do yeah yeah but there's the thing off because i think we should do a whole episode of this podcast about randy oglesby what what what what you say that you shoot the him in the you know twin number one yeah yeah yeah nothing and then twin number two of course yeah they could do it i'm not saying it's impossible it wasn't yeah just seems you guys are crunchy just to cast a different actor and how it seems I don't know why they would cast. You know why? Because they wanted identical twins and it's probably not that easy

to find ones that can act really well. Exactly. So they cast the best actor for the role and they just said we're going to use technology. And they want to be tall and good looking because it's our show. Yeah. That does make sense actually.

Maybe in the close up he played both roles and in the wide shots they had someone. Someone else dressed like him. Close enough. That's, I'm going to put money on that. There you go. That's a final answer. Because also, remember how fast it is you cast.

You don't have that much time to cast. All right. Well, let's get back to the scene. Quark tells Odo that rock and roll Crodin, who came from the gamma quadrant, is harmless. And that's when the two twinned Mirrodorn, the two twin Michael Dorns arrive. And Odo makes more assumptions. Quark gets really frustrated and tells Odo, the freeloader to either order a drink, play the tables, or get the heck out of quirks.

And that's when we see Quark. kind of like, you know, walk up to Rahm and whispered a rom, yeah, prepare the special drink, which looks a lot like grapefruit juice. And I will, oh, I love the growl. The growl that Quark gives to Odo at the very end of that after he whispers the rom, he's like, ah, like he just does a funny little growl, which I did not expect. And it's funny because Armin mentioned that, that when he was on Next Generation, he had this kind of like Ferengi sound he did. So then he did it in the pilot of your show of DS9, but he said, I said, I never did it after that.

Well, he said he starts pulling it back is what he did. I think this is the pulling of the pulling back and still a little bit up there, right? A little bit of that. But then there's a close up of ROM placing the, the carafe and the glasses. And then you're thinking, why is there so much of emphasis on this scene? But then you realize later, why are you thinking that? Or are you thinking like, when I first watched it, I was like, that's weird. But then I was like, oh, I know what's happening now.

So Hollisweet is the next location. That's where the secret meeting is. Quark is indeed meeting with the Miradorin twins. And he says the buyer has backed out since the artifact has been deemed stolen goods. This is a like fancy egg. It looks like the. It looks like a fabric. Faberge egg.

It's super expensive. And the twins are not happy. But couldn't you tell like right when he was explaining it? I'm like, oh, this is a devil cross. I don't know what's going to, but yeah, he's really good at that lying where, yeah, well, the lying, where not everybody gets it. Yeah, yeah, double cross about to happen. Yeah, but it's still so hard for me, guys, to watch, to watch Quark knowing what I know about Armin as a person, as a human being, and to watch him be so diabolical and devious is like, oh, dang it. That's so, but then again, that shows how good, such a good answer.

Don't trust him. Don't trust Herman. Good liar. In the midst of this, you know, this debate about whether they're stolen goods or not, rock and roll, Croton shows up holding a Frankie Faser and says, give me, give me that. I want that now. And then a fight ensues.

Everything goes crazy. Glasses get thrown and broken. And now we realize one of the glasses was Odo. Odo reforms into his humanoid self. and I love it how he disarms Croton and then quickly just gives an elbow to Akel who is charging it's very strong Odo I thought the same thing

I was like man you're like Superman was pretty strong anyway yeah he was a substantial guy he did yoga every day hiked all the time yeah he was very fit and tall yeah he's a tall guy yeah he wasn't scrawny

he was no you know a man built like a solid guy yeah well one of these twins is dead so one of the twins so now uh randy oglesby is only playing one role yeah he'll play one two role does he get built did he get two paychecks for this i don't know maybe is it possible maybe okay i didn't when i played two of me see okay um so yes so rockel is dead and uh bashir comes in and arrives to confirm i love Your team Bashir, Robbie. No lines from Bashir in this scene. But Bashir looks up at Odo and just nods like, he's dead, gives the nodding confirmation.

The old, yeah. Yeah, now he's not alive. Too late. Yeah, too late. Mm-hmm. We're in the security office. Akel tells Cisco that the twin Miradorans are essentially one being and that he is now incomplete. And that he wants revenge and he wants Croton dead.

Cisco tells him that they will deal with Croden. in their own way and orders Akele to return to a ship and wait for possible further questioning. O'Kale does leave the office. But when he leaves, he kind of, as an actor, he chose to throw in this affectation like he was the hunchback of Notre Dame, sort of like, I'm only half a man now. And he kind of like leaves in a weird-ass way. That's funny. It was a very dramatic walkout, but I didn't make the connection like he was injured in some way.

I just thought it was a dramatic alien walk. And I think, unfortunately, they didn't say because he doesn't carry it throughout the performance. So there was that feeling of what I didn't like. Like he did it for that one scene and that was it. You see what I'm saying? If you're that compromise where you're because half of your being is gone, you better be hunched back for the rest of the show. But he wasn't. Yes.

No, and that bothered me. And I couldn't tell if it was the writing or the directing, but it was just, well. Yeah, we don't know who what it was. It could have been Rick saying something. It could have been Randy saying like, I'm going to, I have to do something. This could have been an early scene, too, shot at a different out of order, whatever. We don't know. We don't.

But here's the thing, too. If it doesn't work and then you're painted in that corner and it's too late to reshoot, then it's just so well. Yeah, you are so well at that point. Yeah. Actually, I was thinking when he did that. I didn't know he gets shot. I thought it was just the other brother. It looked like he was injured.

Exactly. I guess it ricocheted and hit him too, possibly. How did I miss that? Cork and Rahm are also, you know, they are also in the security office and they decide that it's time for them to leave. That at Cisco's like, well, you can't really hold them. They're fine to go, right? But as they're leaving, Odo kind of says, curious that Croton was using a Ferengi phaser. And, you know, Armin immediately says, Armin, I'm saying his real name.

Cork immediately says, you can find those anywhere. And then, oh, also, interesting that he knew about this meeting that you had to buy the Faberge egg. And again, Cork shrugs it off and they leave. But we know something's off. Well, he also says, you know, to Odo, as you were there, I argued that it might have been stolen. That's right. He does say that. In his defense.

In his defense, he was saying it was a stolen goods. I wasn't going to take it. But then you could also see how he was trying to just cover for his big fat. lie. Yes, most definitely. And also Rom in that scene, he gets really indignant and he says, how dare you suggest. Oh, does he stand that for him? Yeah. He literally says he admits it. Yeah, he admits is like, shut up. How dare you accuse my brother of doing something secretive like double-crossing? Because that is exactly what it was. Because it's like he's, he wasn't there at all. And then I know he's snuck in and now he's in. Now he's in. Now his brother's there. So it's

It's really nice to see Max. Yeah. It's nice to see Max. Like, this is the most that I think Max has done in the series so far. He's really, yes, starting to become part of the team. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to see him, but it's tough to watch how harsh.

It's painful. Yeah, it's painful. We are in the detention cell. Croden asks right off the bat, don't you feed your prisoners? He's hungry. Cisco tells Croton that there will be a trial to determine. Well, he's got food there. I was trying to figure out.

There was no food there. There was no food there in that scene. Oh, in the next scene? Yeah, because he says to him, he was like, I'll tell you about where the changelings are, if you tell me, if you give me some food. Oh, that's right, because he gets the food later. That's right. He just doesn't finish it.

So that's where you're like... It's like an empty plate. There's some stuff on it though, right? There was some stuff on it. There was like a little oatmeal or something on it. It's gross. But in this scene, yeah. There's not.

In this scene, it's all about his hairdo. He's got B Arthur. Yeah. Right away, I was thinking, why did they let him have his necklace? Don't they take all your stuff from you? Yeah, isn't that like a, that could be used as a weapon or something? But I watch a lot of TV. Yeah, they take your stuff from you.

They do, they do. So he tells Corden that there will be a trial to determine his guilt or innocence and that he can be assigned an advocate or he can request one from his home world. Now, he immediately says, well, I don't think anyone's going to care for my homeworld at all. And I have no choice in doing what I had to do. it was kill or be killed he points at Odo and says that if he had Odo's skills he'd have no problems at all and he refers to Odo as a changeling which immediately gets Odo's attention because I don't think Odo's even heard this no this is that very first time I got that impression

yeah he's a shapeshifter not a changeling and Odo asks if there are other shape shifters in the gamma quadrant Corden says that they haven't come through the wormhole yet I mean I I'm assuming that they've already come through since I've seen you and he says if he's fed he'll tell Odo more about where he met the last shapeshifter that he met. I like that when Odo accuses him of lying, he says, well, maybe I dissemble a little. Yeah. Because they talk about, he talks about dissembling. Exactly. Maybe I disassemble lies a very harsh word. But I dissemble. Decemble. It's incredible. I'm going to, I'm going to use that. That's a good one. He's very smooth.

Yeah, very smooth. We're in the commander's office. O'Brien, Dax, and Kira are in a discussion with Cisco about whether or not they should contact Kroden's home planet. Cisco orders Kira to beef up security for Kroden just in case Akel tries to exact vigilante justice. One thing in this scene that's interesting, because I always get the scripts of the episodes and I look at, you know, compare it to what we're watching. This scene, the original script, Bashir, was in this scene. Yes, because the line that you have, that you have, Terry, that first line, it says, O'Brien, it says, sorry, Bashir's name on that, say the script.

So either that was sick, maybe, or Robbie, that was incorrectly written by the fan that put this stuff out. This is not put out officially by CBS Paramount, right? The script, so it could have been that he wrote it down incorrectly. But, yeah, originally, I guess Bashir was in the scene if we go out of that. Yeah. Sometimes that stuff happens. Maybe they would have had to force.

push his call, and then they just gave me his lines and took him out of the scene. Yeah. That could happen. Yeah. Oh, 100%. Although he wasn't really, but she wasn't in this episode that much. So I'm wondering, would he have gotten a forced call? I doubt it, you know, so who knows?

I don't know. You know what? I've gotten forced calls where I sat all day and didn't do a thing. Yeah. So maybe, maybe. You're right. And then you were feeling great until then you have a forced call. Then you have a forced call.

Then you have to do all the long. And a forced call for everybody listening. A force call is when you finish one night and you don't have the full 12 hours to come to turn around and come back to work. So they're supposed to give you 12 hours or give the actors 12 hours. So if you wrap it 9 o'clock at night, you're not supposed to be back till 9 o'clock in the morning. But often they will shorten that time and they pay a small penalty for that. And a 9.5 hour turnaround is the shortest you can make it.

but it doesn't count you driving back and forth, taking your makeup off or learning your lines. So my nine and a half hour turnarounds would be basically like an eight and a half hour turnaround. So how could you possibly ever get enough sleep? Get enough sleep. Yeah. No. Yeah.

We're in quirks. And Odo interrogates quark about what he spoke to Croton about. He wants all the details. Their conversation is interrupted when Odo is hailed by one of his security staffers that Akell and his crew are standing. outside of Odo's security office. So Odo says, you know, let me handle it. I'll be right there to deal with Akel. By the way, in this scene, Odo first names Morn.

For the very first time, Morn has a name. And I love it how he says, Keep your mouth shut, Morn. I love that, yeah. Big mouth shut. Which is hilarious because he never speaks to have that line, which is very funny. Yeah.

All right. So we're now in the promenade outside the security office. Akele wants justice. Odo orders Akele and his motley crew to return to their ship. Did you notice that? None of the members of the Michael Dorn ship looked like Michael Dorn people. Did you notice that? They were all completely.

No makeup, really. They had no money to put the same makeup on Randy Oglesby onto the crew. So they just made them this motley crew of random mercenary aliens. Since they doubled Randy Oglesby as the twins, they should have made Randy Oglesby every member of the crew. So it was like 20 of them. Well, it is kind of remarkable because were they not a first contact species or was it just Croden that was the first contact species? Yeah, you're right. I think they both were. I think they both were.

Yeah. So that was, that's a couple of things that are kind of about this episode for me. I agree. Yeah. Me too. Details. Okay. Well, we are back in the detention cell.

and Croton has eaten. This is where this food is the plate. I was trying to figure out what's on the plate. At first, I thought it was a fried egg, but then later, he's eating it. Yeah, it dips into it. So you're like, that's not a fried. Cream of wheat, maybe, oatmeal?

I don't know. It looked like gruel. A gruel. Gruel. That's a funny word. Isn't it? This is a scene where he shows Odo this locket from the colony of the changeling. And he opens up this locket.

we see there's a stone in one side of it but that stone now take shape it forms into this shape and then it goes back down it morphs and it returns to its inert state and now Odo's attention is just he's locked in on this he's like what he has no he's really really shocked by this because he thought that you know this whole time that that Croton was lying right so this is the first instance of Odo being like wait a minute you got me that's not a parlor trick that's a real deal, you know, I don't know what's happening, but I got to investigate further. I think he's so smarmy, Kroden, that even though, I'm sorry, but it looked like a key right.

Yeah, totally. Right. So it was like. Not to me. I didn't know what it was. I was like, it was just like, it just looked like a key to me. It's like formed into a form. You thought it was a key immediately.

Both of you thought it was a key immediately. Yeah, a certain killer key. And then it just disappeared. You know what? Can I just say, Garrett? Well, good for you. That's just how our brains work. All right.

So you guys. All right, fine. It's a detail that I found like. So fine. Terfair and Ro Mick can see keys. Gawa cannot see a key. Gawa. All I'm saying is if it morphed into looking like him or like a auto or whatever he was mirroring,

then it would have been like, ooh. Yeah. It should have morphed into the DS9. that would have been cool i also didn't trust him i i know i totally just did not trust him and it felt like it was uh he it just felt like he was seducing odo yeah that's yes it did it felt a little that's what he was doing and it's interesting you say that he's he plays like seduction a lot as an actor i guess maybe it was written no he drew upon his later on maybe it's just the rock star like that's what it was the intention that's the

The verb he was working, right? It was, he was, he was doing his Jim Morrison. He was like, I'm going to get you into my thing. Which I'm going to say later on when he opens up the stasis chamber, it creeped me out a little. Yeah. Oh, well, let's talk about that when we get to that. Get there when we get there. But yeah, at this point, he is seducing Odo in my eyes.

And I still don't trust him even though, yes, I went, wow. But I don't trust you. you still you're still scary exterior shot of the Rio Grande at Impulse now we're in the Rio Grande Interior Dax and Cisco have arrived here you are you're in the scene I say one more thing to yes go I love the exterior shots of the runabouts in this episode yeah all of them it just it was so much fun to see it isolated in space it just made it feel real to me like it yeah felt like I was more watching another world, getting to see it from that point of view. Yeah.

Most definitely. Well, you guys have arrived at planet. Is it Rakar or Raktar? I'm just, I wrote down Rakar here. I wrote Rakar too. Yeah, it's Rakar. Somehow I said Raktar earlier. All right.

So they are at Planet Rakar and they hail the Rakar. Hadron, the exarch of the Nihelik province, responds. He once Kroden returned immediately. He is an enemy of the Rakari people. And, well, Cisco basically at the end of this conversation agrees that, fine, we will return him within 52 hours. This is what's going to happen. Because the Ricarians are saying all of his crimes supersede anything that he's done on the station. So he needs to come to trial and face the music here on his home planet and not on the station.

At the very end of the scene when Cisco says, expect him to return, we'll bring him back. and they sign off. I loved how this actor who plays Hadron or whatever, instead of like pushing a button to turn off his video, he did this sort of, he did like a weird finger thing.

I didn't see that. I was like, what is he doing? Yes, he just sort of like waved and did a finger thing. It was his way of doing clap on, clap off. Maybe that's what it was. Yeah, I liked it. For those of you who are just listening

and not watching Robbie, doing that. He did this really weird flourish with his hand. It looks like a magician's move or something. Yeah. Al-Qazam. Al-Qazam. Yeah. So clearly magic is a big part of the Ricari people as well. He does birthday parties on the side. That is, not only is the ex-arch of that province, he also does children's birthday parties and Bar Mitzpah's magic is what he does. Okay.

We're in the infirmary. We have Fashir, and, And he's examining Crotin's necklace. And he says, I have only seen one life form that even remotely resembles this. And it's Odo. So now, again, Odo's just transfixed on the screen. One thing I'll say about this scene, it's the only scene that felt like classic Rick Colby direction to me. The way the shots were. Yeah.

This episode didn't feel like Rick was doing his typical stuff. Yeah. And I love Rick. I think his work is great. Me too. But this one didn't feel that way to me. It felt like. Except for this scene, though.

This scene was the one. Except for this scene. Talk about it. Like, what about this scene? It's just the way it was staged that it was, you know, one shot, one person handed off to another. It was just staged in a way that it was visually more dynamic in my opinion than the rest of the episode. So all the blocking sort of kind of made the camera.

It made the eye move with the camera, basically. Yes. It flowed, is what you're saying. That's the typical record. when that happens i want to say one thing about this though yeah um not in terms of rick but in terms of the stone when bishir said this could be a very distant cousin to you okay then for me that legitimized oh that is something real i have to think about maybe the croton is the liar but but it's a white No, I don't think he was a white liar, but I did think that, you know, there could be, there's a little spark of hope that there was something to what he was saying.

Stepping back for a second. Did you believe that Odo would be willing to compromise who he normally is as much as he did in this? To me, I had a hard time buying that Odo was so motivated. to find out about changelings that he would do all of that make so many choices that just didn't seem in character to me. No, it didn't to me either. Yeah. It bums me out about the episode because there were things I visually liked about it,

but that kind of the gravitas of the character, especially the first season. Yeah. I think they wanted to just illustrate how badly he wanted to know where he came from, but I think they overstepped. I think there could have been a better way to do that. Yeah. I think the need to know where. you're from is strong and i think it's fine i do too laid definitely but you guys both feel like

it wasn't played the correct way in this episode in this episode the way that they they unfolded that idea i didn't buy it okay and it didn't even feel emotionally grounded like if you're going to do an episode where a character is oh my god there's this thing about me that i never knew i wanted learn about it then do that story where there's an emotionally based story a thousand percent don't complicate it with the other storylines yeah yeah i just i didn't buy his his actions and choices as a character didn't seem consistent to me even though i like the idea of like discovering where you come from all of that is good i just didn't think it was well done in this episode from a story also when he's in jail and when the force field came down it was like

i felt i felt nervous like it felt wrong it was just yeah exactly exactly Stuff like that. Like, he's taking the force field up and down and he's handing and he's taking a... That didn't bother me. That didn't bother me at all. In the background, there should have at least been a century around the door. No, Odo's Superman. Do you see him elbow that guy in the beginning to take him out?

I don't have any problem. We're in the detention cell. Odo wants more answers about the stone in the necklace. Corden says that there is a nebula called the... How do you pronounce it? Robbie. Shamra vortex? Thank you.

The Shamra vortex with millions of asteroids. He found the stone on one of the asteroids. He says he can take Odo. there. Odo says, you know what? Others must know how to get there. But Croton says the vortex is uncharted. There's no maps about with this vortex. He came across this colony of changelings by chance and only he knows how to get there and back. Yeah. Dun dun dun. Seems like a con man. Like I don't buy it. I'm with you, Terry. I just don't buy, even though, you know, spoiler alert, it turns out that he is telling a lot of true things. Then why didn't he just tell the truth? Yeah. How about that?

Yeah, we wouldn't have an episode. Yeah, Commander's office. That's true. Cisco tells Odo that he must escort Kroden back to Rekar to answer for his crimes. They talk about avoiding Akel, who has been scanning every vessel leaving DS9. So how can they get around this? We have a scene in the runabout interior where Odo enters preceded by a handcuffed Crodin. Codin thinks Odo is taking him up on his offer.

over. Odo says, no, I'm just taking you back to Rekar. That's it. We jump back into ops. O'Brien, Cisco and Kira are there. O'Brien notifies Cisco that the Rijelian freighter is ready to depart. Cisco says to signal Odo. We have a really cool exterior shot of this Rigelian freighter departing slowly from the station. And as it's kind of just about leaving the station, we see the runabout quickly maneuver under the freighter to sort of hide. I love that stuff. Yeah, it was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, the space shots were good in this episode. All the vortex gases and all that stuff. Yeah, there were some good.

Yeah, they were cool to see on stage when you'd see them do it. Do you guys ever walk by the stage? Yeah. Super cool. I only saw that once when they were doing some ship shots, but it was very cool. And the models were really much bigger than I expected. Yeah. Yeah.

The mirror door and do scan, and they do not notice the runabout, which is what they wanted. So the runabout interior, we have a scene there with Croden telling Odo what happened to his family. And evidently, I, he does it. This is the, this is the sad thing. Proden has no idea what the charges were. He just knows that in the middle of the night, security officers came and basically killed his two wives. So now we know they are a culture that takes more than one wife. So it's, that's interesting there. But both wives are killed, but he ends up killing the security officers for killing his wife. So we don't know. like the chickens he describes it sounds like a serial killer you're right yeah he talks about this knife

he only used to kill chickens and how easy it was to slit their throats yeah so they set it up too for you to go yeah he's creepy so far fetched yeah and creepy that i still don't believe him the only thing going on his side right now is that crazy little stone around his neck yes the keystone the keystone The Keystone Keystone cops. All right, we're in corks. Rahm is thrown into the bar by Akell. He strong-arms quark into giving him information on Croton's location.

Cork says he doesn't know where Croton is, but he can find out. And he tells Ram to give him the level four security chip. Now, Robbie, when he said that, I immediately assumed, Robbie, that he was going to pull out an isolinear chip like we use on Voyager. Which is what we've seen before. but today he picks out from it's it's a it's a drawer full of vials of liquid and he's like hmm this one looks like it's more full of liquid i'll give that to court what is that robie inconsistent well because remember earlier we talked to armin about this he had some secret chips where he yes yes yes yes you know that he had stolen and he used them to look something up and right and armin said to us

because i i remember asking him like did you do that all the time and he goes no we never did that I think this is the only time. Well, they're doing it again. Well, they'll do it again, too. The props department evidently lost their bag of isolinier chips. They're different things that he uses. They're vials of liquid. Did you guys see that?

There's liquid, right? They're not vials. They're not on chips. It's not a chip. No. It shouldn't look like that. It should have looked like a, you know, a piece of plexiglass, basically. Or something.

Yeah, it didn't look right from the way he described it. And also the fact that quark. can get into any security, like, if he has access that way, why would he ever lose? Why would he ever feel it jeopardy about anything? Yeah. It's just not a good, no. Can I backtrack for one second since we're on the cork? Okay.

Backtrack. There is a scene with Cork and Odo where Odo really, you know, kind of sticks it to Cork about what's going on. And Cork's like, I can't say anymore because you felt like there was something really in jeopardy. for quirk. And at that moment in the show, in quarks, when Odo confronts quirk, that's the question, the interrogation. Yeah. He's really interrogating him. Yeah. I felt like, oh, no, maybe I shouldn't be so mad at cork. Maybe there's another reason. A reason. Yeah. So then, then nothing happens.

Right. So then I thought, oh, is that a red herring? Is that a red herring? Is that a red herring? Yeah. Is it the point where he goes, tell me if he talked about any aliens from the Gamma Quadrant. And he's like, no. And tell me about this. No, like that point where you felt like he's hiding something, right? The very end of that interrogation. But it seemed really like life threatening to life and death. Where you're just like, oh, is his mom going to get murdered? I mean, you know, there's some. Yeah, it felt like Quark must have a good reason that he's involved in all this. But it wasn't. He was just hiding the fact that he was in cahoots with Croton. Is that right? Exactly. Yes. Which is what we find.

find out but it's it was kind of I felt duped yeah it felt a little in this whole episode felt inconsistent with character and even in within the episode the way they behave from one scene to an X and I really don't like overall that quark is so involved I don't like overall that quark is so involved in you know this murder and this crime stuff like it just is not good season one. And that's kind of dropped, too. How important is that he got murdered. He got murdered.

The guy was trying to steal the A and he killed the guy. And Quarks set all this up. Quark should be responsible for some of this. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. My question was, why wasn't Croden's Frangy Faser on stun? Stun is just as good to knock somebody out. You don't have to kill somebody.

But again, we wouldn't have a story. We wouldn't have an episode if the guy didn't die. Right. I get it. We could have taken an eye out. that's my twin I can't see I can't see so

so as Akelle is leaving the security office he walks into the wall because his twin is missing one eye so it's like a Corsican twin He's the one that could see I'm the one that can think he's the one that has vision I'm the one that has a brain okay

and now I can't see and he walks into the wall that would have been awesome okay so the isolinear chip a.k.a. vial of liquid ends up giving them the coordinates the flight plan, everything of the runabout. He knows where that runabout's going now. And he looks at Quark and threatens to come back and deal with Quark if the information

is false. And he leaves. And that's the end of that scene. You know, at the very end, I think Rahm and Quark shared that they're worried that, you know, maybe Croton's going to tell, you know, this, whatever his name is. That they were in cahoots on the plan and all that. Yeah, but who cares? Who cares at that point?

Yeah. Like, who cares? Yeah, it just didn't, it didn't matter. and there was no payoff later like they're not in they're not in jeopardy for having this this scam this illegal sale or that there was a murder because of their plant they're never held accountable that's the part that just seems weird to me really weird and can we just talk logistics of how does he go from quirks and get on his ship and get to the wormhole that fast yeah yeah because the next scene in ops i mean can they teleport himself

from works to his ship? If he has a site-to-site transport, yes, he could. They did say that that ship is very fast. Didn't, didn't Cisco or somebody talking about that? It would overtake it in because, oh, my God. Yeah, probably. We go back to ops, and one thing I noticed, Robbie,

ops being their bridge, they have much shorter scenes in ops than we had in our bridge. Oh, we spent so much time on our bridge. Yeah, we call it a bridge hell. Days. Oh, my God. I look at DS9 ops, and I'm like, you guys are so lucky.

Maybe it's just season one, but it looks like that's like half a day in there or even a quarter, like the first set up of the day. It looks really quick. It does. That's what it looks like. But you were there a lot? A lot.

Okay. Yeah. Well, obviously not every show, but it was huge. It was hard to, you know, shoot everything really quickly in ops was not real. But imagine, Terry, if you were on our show with Robbie and I on the bridge, every episode. Yeah, we were always about two or three days on the bridge. Yeah, so we're talking about 30 hours of shooting on the freaking bridge all the time every episode. You're so funny.

You're talking to me like I had a 9 to 5 job during this time. I know you didn't. I'm just saying. No, I totally get it. But we had our own, you know, but you were also flying through space. I was living on the ship. I mean the station, right? Sorry.

You were living on a ship. You were living on a ship. You were living on the ship. Okay. It does fly, though, which I never knew about your show until I watched. It has an engine. We just moved to the wormhole. It just moves slowly.

It's basically, it moved very slowly. And then we didn't. And then we never moved again. You know what I think about, Robbie? They were in the runabouts all the time because we got to get out and go do things. Robbie, this is what I think of the DS9 station. It's akin to the restaurant in Atlanta at the top of the peach tree that just revolves slowly. That's about the speed of the DS9 station.

Real slow. Yeah. This is not much. Real slow. Uh-huh. So they're trying to stop. the Mirdorn ship. It's powering up. You know, Akira's hailing them, you know, power down, return to the station, but of course,

Akell doesn't care. It's a cool looking ship, though. I do like the design of that ship, the Mirdorn ship. Yeah, very cool. I thought the makeup was genius as well. No, the makeup on the mirror. With the necklace and stuff. Yeah, that was wild. He had it right through his skin. It was a choker. He had a choker on that went between his folds of skin on his neck. Like earrings for your neck. I thought he was a Frankenstein at first when I saw him. I was like, oh, they put a head on another body. I thought he had gills. I read something that Michael Westmore had designed flaps as part of the makeup, like gills or flaps or something. Okay, okay. You said. And then Bob Blackman wanted to put a necklace on him. And then Michael

Westmore and Bob Blackman sort of got into it like, well, if you put a necklace on, it'll ruin my flaps. Oh, wow. Yeah, but I want to. So they decided to put it underneath the flaps and build it in. See, look at that. But it was a weird. But they worked together great all the time. Imagine how much they must have talked on the phone. Yeah. Yes.

Once we were still working, they were at home talking on the phone. Yeah. About the next aliens. Yeah. That's true. All right. So Akele does not listen. He takes off.

You see the wormhole open up. And now he's in pursuit of the runabout with Odo and Croton in it. We have an exterior space shot of that entire thing happening, the mirror door and ship leaving. entering the wormhole in pursuit of the runabout. Kroden is telling Odo all of these stories about the changelings. And in the middle of the stories, suddenly, and Odo's fascinated, by the way. He's just like, he can't get enough of tell me more, tell me more. And then the runabout is shot at by this Mirrodorn ship.

Yeah. But one important note, though, Robbie, is at the very top of this scene. It's very important. Grotin says to Odo, you're going to save some time if you go through the vortex. because he's trying to get to his daughter, right? Any way that he can. We don't know that until later. It's a long way to go around it.

You should cut through this vortex. Yeah. And then he's like, aren't you curious about your people and starts telling him these stories, trying to get him to go through the vortex? So then suddenly the Miradoran ship shoots at them. They want Crodin. Odo refuses because now he's getting information about the changelings

or he thinks he's getting information. Yeah. Because Crodin is a liar, Terry. he is lying like yes he's telling some true things but like this is an example of he's as garrett said making up stuff just to try to get to his daughter ultimately and the mirroen ship shoots at him croton says that he can he could get them into the vortex and to safety if odo will just let him have the controls odo agrees and unhandcuffs him and lets him take over the ship you didn't like that either I did not like it.

You're like, you're going to unhandcuff your prisoner and you're going to let him drive your shuttle. Oh, why don't you give him a phaser while you're at it? Yeah. I also like how aliens just like pop in and then they can fly anything that's going on. Yeah, exactly.

How many times have you been in a Starfleet runabout? Yes. Never. Never. Okay. Croden takes him into the vortex. He lands this ship so the Miradorant can't track them. The discharge, he talks about the discharge from their thrusters.

They'll be able to track us. So we should land on this thing. I like that shot, though. Did you like the shot of the actual shuttle on the, on the asteroid? That was cool. That was cool. When they get hit, I lost this when they get hit by one of the Mirrodorn shots, Otis says, computer, what was that?

And the answer, as if he doesn't know that they just got shot. And the computer's answer is a temporary. loss of stability resulting from the impact of a concentrated plasma charge. It's like the most, why didn't the computer just say, you know, power down, we've, we've gotten hit or something. I don't know. Just address the plasma charge. Oh, you just took fire, you idiot.

Yeah. Yes. So funny. It just made me laugh. The exchange with the computer, it felt like a joke. Yeah. As the chief of security, doesn't he know what it feels like to get hit by someone else shooting You would think.

You would know that. No, he's never been in, he's never been in combat before. No. Crodin says your computer's not going to outsmart them. And Odo responds with the line. He goes, I'm a security chief, not a combat pilot. Yeah. Which I thought was like classic original series.

Yeah. It's like Bob Cardo saying, I'm a doctor, not a nightlight, whatever he does. Oh, wait, consider the writer. Yeah. Consider the writer. That is a classic Star Trek filling. And the writer is the classic Star Trek writer. So there you go.

There you go. Original series. I like that. We go down to the caves, the tunnels where they've landed this, the shuttle. Crotland's leading Odo through these tunnels. Well, he's not really leading. He's running through there. And then Odo's like, slow down.

What are you doing? Yeah, Odo's not having it. I did not think he was going to pop his head back around. He came back. Odo grabs him and then like starts yelling at him and holding him against the rock, accusing him of, you know, using this, tricking him. Yeah. And Crodin does it admit suddenly that this was all a lie.

Yes, you're right. You're right. Mm-hmm. He says, what about the stone? What are the stone? He's like, it's Ricari merchants. They buy them from off-world traders. I don't know where they got it from.

So he doesn't know anything about that at all. Yeah. But he does say it's a key. Yes, this is a key. And he says, it's a key to my only reason for living. Yeah. It's up ahead in that cavern. So we cut it up to the cavern.

They come to this metal box that has some big rocks that they have to move. Giant rocks. Big old rocks. I was like, Odo must really be strong. I told you. He's Superman. They did a pretty good job of making it seem heavier than it was. Yeah, selling it.

I'm sure that was a styrofoam rock, but yeah. Good job. Why weren't they both on? Why weren't they both pushing from the same side would have felt more realistic to me? They kind of lifted a two-ton rock. Yeah. Yeah. They lifted it.

then it was really hard when it went over the edge. Yes. Yeah. But they move these rocks off this metal box and Crodin says that it's a stasis chamber and his daughter is inside. So Odom, Odo helps him get the rocks off and Crodin uses that locket key to open it up and get his daughter out. And Crodin introduces his daughter to Odo. You know, he tells his daughter he's a security officer and his daughter is very scared. Who did she remind you of, Robbie?

from Voyager I don't know who the episode where you and I are trapped in the alien prison ship and we are basically accused of being terrorists

and the actual terrorists are the open sky terrorist it was a brother and younger sister team that were together that she reminded me the younger sister team she was

here's the thing about this actress she was fine yeah but Croden plays like this is his whole lot he gets her out and there was something kind of creepy about it like she was too old

with to have all this physical like caressing and what she felt like a 15 18 year old young woman he can't hug his daughter what do you mean i don't know why it felt creepy it's something about it felt i felt i felt a splash of what you're saying robbie i think yeah okay i don't know if that's from my own yeah i don't know if it's my own personal reading into things but it just felt a little like if it was a little child like a five year old or a six year old all right so you're saying they should have cast younger they should have single digits single digits not teenage i think this it should have been i do too very young yes yeah six year old daughter yeah you know even like the hug when she first came out that's like

they're hugging for a long long time yeah i don't think that i wouldn't have had that reaction with my dad yeah you know yeah but i think also how that would read in a story because I'm so tall and my dad's short might be awkward. So, yeah, I think it should have been younger. He's my stepdad. How tall is your stepdad? I mean, how tall is he? He's probably 5'8.

Oh, so you tower over him. Yeah, but it is kind of comical when people say, oh, I see where you got your blue eyes. Or I see, oh, you look just like your mom and dad. It's like, well, not really. Not really. I'm not German at all. All right. But he does get his daughter out and is very happy to see her.

Not for the sins of the father, but don't you immediately, if everything else he says was a lie, because she's there, it's like get out of jail free car. In a way. Yes, yes. Yeah, because immediately we have a lot. Pretty simple, yeah. So suddenly the cave is shaking and rocks are falling in the middle of them explaining this,

and suddenly a giant rock hits Odo and knocks him out cold. That was a great stunt. That looks so good. Oh, my God, it was good. And you couldn't tell that it was not Renee and his stunt. No, you could not. That's why I was really impressed. Yeah.

Really good. Yeah, really good job. I liked it. Yeah, that was good. He's knocked out. Are you right away going, he's going to run without Odo? Yes. And he starts to.

No. He starts to run. No, but he starts to take him and then he lets him go and starts to run, then comes back again. He does that, right? No, but right when Odo got hit, I thought, oh, he's done. He's out of there. Yeah. yep but then when he went back and got him can i just say this robbie i totally thought of you

and how we discussed the three of us discussed when you're knocked out but you have to help walk out you can't yeah because they did that to me right and yes because it's too difficult to carry another human being you could not carry rene like that no way and if he was knocked out you'd have to throw him over your shoulder wouldn't you yeah yeah would be like a fireman carry One, he's like way taller than Cliff DeYoung and at least twice his size. Yeah, Cliff could not have carried him. Cliff would have had to drag him out by his hands or whatever. That's the only way that's and the daughter would have had to help drag too.

Yes. In reality. I hate when somebody's supposed to be unconscious and yet they're helping walk themselves out of a set. And that's exactly what happened. That's what happened. Can you just smash cut? Yeah, he could have said, I'll carry him out. Let's go.

Go to put them over your shoulder and then cut you inside the runabout. Yeah, yeah. But it's, I love the first line in the runabout when Odo comes to consciousness. Croton says, you're heavier than you look. It's like, uh, dead weight is dead weight. Or Croton could have said, hey, thanks for helping walk out of there when I was trying to, when you were unconscious. Something like that.

Thanks for the help. Thanks for the assistance. Yes. Oh my God. But Odin wakes up. Odo wakes up. You said Odin. I know.

I did. The North God of the... Okay, go ahead. Oh, yeah. Maybe that's where the name came from. Hey. Interesting. Yeah, Odo wakes up in the runabout.

But Crodin has not been able to lose the Miradorn. And Odo wants them to go into the Tomair fields, hoping that the Miradorn will follow them. And Crodin says, well, if they fire on them in there, the whole thing will again. there the whole thing will ignite right and otto's counting on that he wants to go inside he shuts down the engines in there and the mirrodorn ship finds them and hails them as for crowdon otto threatens to fire on them with all these superior starfleet weapons he brags about how powerful this little shuttle is trying to put on a show there but the miradoran is not concerned

about that and otto pilots the runabout just as the mirroar and ship fires and there's this explosion, which Odo was counting on, that sort of shoots them out safely. Crodin then asks Odo to look after his daughter, that he loves his daughter very much. That was his whole reason for living. And suddenly a Vulcan vessel is hailing them. And Odo tells them that he's beamed over two people from a damaged vessel and asks if the Vulcans could give them transport to Vulcan and take care of them. Crodin asks, how will Odo explain not

returning him when he goes back to the station and Odo says he'll say that Rodin was killed by the Mirrodorns. Well, they were on the asteroid. There's also that repetitive use of, don't thank me. I already regret it by both by both actors. Odo says it and so does Crodin and beginning. So there's that little device being used. But Crodin does give him the locket in this scene, which I thought was very sweet.

He puts it over his neck and then steps back and Croden takes his daughter's hand. and they're beamed over to the Vulcan ship. And Oda Laysen, of course, for DS9. And before he takes off, he says, home, where is it? Someday we'll know. That was sad to me. It was very sad.

That part was really just sad. I just, like, it was just wistful and sad and depressing at the end. But, yeah, I mean, it leads to something else in the future, I'm sure we're going to see other shapeshifters at some point. I thought it was that it could have been, although this was discouraging. really the locket is still a little piece of hope right it's a little piece of a cousin it's a little so for me i didn't feel quite that bad it feels like the beginning of a journey for him like hey

there's something i need to learn about there's something i'm i'm going to have to discover and trust your he he calls it cousin doesn't he says someday he does well know cousin yeah and then engaged so yeah a little bittersweet there at the end yeah if you want to go even deeper into Voyager and or Deep Space 9. Check us out at Patreon. We have tiers ranging from $3 to $260 a month, fun perks, including all bonus segments, like our ratings of the episodes,

winner and loser picks for the episodes, our ideas for a missing scene for each episode, and answering Patreon member submitted questions. You can watch the video version of the podcast and see reaction clips from the host as they watch and react to the episodes in real time. Plus, you can participate in Patreon polls for the bonus segments. We have guest interviews, monthly blooper reels, birthday shoutouts on the podcast.

You can even get autographs and cool swag mailed right to you. Plus, we have monthly zooms where you can join us and Armin or Terry for relaxed discussion and Q&A. Go to www.com forward slash the Delta Flyers forward slash membership to check out what we have to offer and pick a tier. for me it's trust your instincts trust your instincts that's a good one yeah because quark lied and it didn't feel truthful yeah trust that croton liar he's a liar i mean maybe this is personal i've had to learn to trust my instincts but i really feel like i'm doing i get it and this episode really bothered me for how many times

smart characters looked past their instincts would have been. It seemed so obvious as a viewer to see who was lying and why didn't the other characters see that? I just didn't buy it.

No, me neither. My theme moral lesson for this episode is that feeling connected to where we come from, from our home, is gives us all comfort seeing seeing odo have this beginning of this story of feeling a feeling of connection to a cousin this little locket or home or his people having a name

to call himself a changeling that seemed like it gave him hope and comfort I agree with you a little more agency yeah what about you Garrett it's a little bit of both of yours I would say family first for Robbie and then trust your instincts I'm going to say I'm going to say that's my other one. I'm going to agree with Terry 1,000% because your gut always knows. Thank you, everybody, for joining us for Vortex. This was a lot of fun and confusion for me. But thank you for joining us. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stick around for your bonus material. And we will see you all next time. The next episode is Battleline. You know,

Bhopal. B. B. B. B. B. B. B.

You know, B. BOR, BOR, BOR, BADD BADD BADD

BADD BAD. BAD BAD. BAD. BADD BADD BADD

BAD. You know, I'm going to be