The Delta Flyers - Worst Case Scenario

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at ...the very beginning. This week’s episode is Worst Case Scenario. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars. This week they are joined for the entire recap and bonus material by the incomparable, and always amazing Martha Hackett, who portrayed Seska on Voyager.Worst Case Scenario:Crew members discover a secret holographic novel programme depicting Seska and the Maquis leading a rebellion aboard Voyager.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill, and our Post Producer Jessey Miller.And a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, and Tim Russ.Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Michelle Zamanian, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Elaine Ferguson, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, James Zugg, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Lee Lisle, Mary Beth Lowe, William McEvoy, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Amber Eason, Lucas Shuck, Mary Burch, Nicholaus Russell, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Ariana, Meg Johnson, Marcus Vanderzonbrouwer, Nathan Walker, Shambhavi Kadam, and Christopher ArzebergerAnd our Producers:Jim Guckin, Steph Dawe Holland, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Ann Harding, Laura Swanson, Ann Marie Segal, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Craig Sweaton, Nathanial Moon, Warren Stine, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Crystal Komenda, Maxine Soloway, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Heidi Mclellan, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, James Cottrell, Jenna Appleton, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Daniel Owen, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Liz Lowe, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Kevin Selman, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Justin Weir, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlmann, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Michelle Maroney, Victor Ling, Scott J. Mark, John Mann, Michael "Klink" Klinckhardt, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Joseph Lanning, and Melissa A. NathanThank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey guys, welcome to the Delta Flyers. I am your host, Garrett Wong, and here's my co-host, Robbie Duncan McNeil. Well, hello there, sir. How are you? I'm good. Are you in a holodeck? Where are you? I am in a holiday. Your background looks like a holodeck. Yes, yes. Is that our holodeck?
Starting point is 00:00:24 That's our holodeck. And I really feel like, you know, that this is a good background. because this show is all on the holodeck almost a lot of it is so don't tell me don't oh yeah okay all right i'm i'm spilling the beans a little bit here yeah okay so uh first of all i just want to i'm wearing the uh chrono work shirt right now oh yes from future zen part one too we have episode specific shirt our first episode specific shirt and the reason why it's the first episode specific is because this is the same design that was printed up by brandon braga to give to the crew and the cast or maybe just the cast um so one of these days when i do find that shirt i'm
Starting point is 00:01:05 gonna show everybody but um yeah so that's why that's why we have this shirt because of that yeah throw honor yeah throw back right and to kind of uh you know give throw a shout out to brandon in his his episode so here we do remember Marvin rush used to make uh shirts now and then yes the only the only one i remember was that sweatshirt right and it said it had the voice logo. It had the ship on the, on the left or right side. I can't remember which side, but right on the breast area, the upper chest. And then it said, Rick Berman is a personal friend of mine, is what he put on there. Yeah. He always had, he would print these shirts that had like, like a little bit of a jab, but fun, you know, is stuff that we, people would always
Starting point is 00:01:53 say he made another shirt that was a shot at David Livingston. our director. What? What was the shirt? It said, the time allotted for this shot has expired. Right. Because David Livingston would always take so much longer than any of the other directors.
Starting point is 00:02:14 We just had the longest hours. And Brad Yacobian, our production manager, producer, Brad would have to come down all the time. And Brad would always say, David, the time allotted for this shot has expired. And so Marvin made a shirt that said that. That would be a fun. Oh, my God. It would be a good throwback T-shirts.
Starting point is 00:02:35 I totally forgot about that shirt. But I definitely remember because the Rick, the Rick Berman is my personal friend. That was a Christmas gift, I remember. It was a sweatshirt during this wintertime that he gave to everybody. And that jab is just, you know, a reference to the fact that in the entire seven years that I worked on Voyager, I saw Berman on set twice. Two times.
Starting point is 00:02:54 Two times in seven years. You may have seen him more. I don't know, but it just, you know, he was never. never there's another i just had a flashback do you remember at the very the seventh season we made hats for the crew and it said star trek voyager season seven and on the back it said finny like in french i guess yeah i have that i still have yeah i was the one in charge of getting those ordered and oh and i think i have somewhere in this move i feel like i I discovered that somewhere I found a box of those hats from the finale.
Starting point is 00:03:35 Yeah. I think I still have some of those hats, you know, because different departments would make different things. The construction department made these plaques that a lot of people know about. They were season specific. But as a cast, we made that hat for the crew. I do remember that. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:03:50 And I think I may still have some of those, which would be crazy. I think I ordered extra from you. Did you get them? Yeah. I do. I think everybody got like, one. The cast got, everybody got one. And then I think for the cast, we said everybody gets like a dozen more or something. Maybe.
Starting point is 00:04:07 But I think there was even, we got more in case we needed, you know, more crew people or day players or whatever. Find them, man. I know. I should find them. I bet people would love to. I can't promise that I have them, but if I can find them, that would be something. That would be super cool. That would be fun for people to have, you know.
Starting point is 00:04:24 Most definitely. Maybe as people do our show, we'll, you know. guests and things like that. Sure. It would be a little parting gift, right? Yeah, but that shirt reminds me of how we used to all different departments would make things, you know. Yeah. And Paramount didn't like it because we were kind of, you know, putting Star Trek, you know, stuff on there. And they didn't like, they didn't like it. They wanted to. Yeah. I mean, I think that would be awesome to have. And we could just say, thank you for being a guest on Delta Flyers. Your parting gifts are your Star Trek Voyager season seven shirt and a box of rice.
Starting point is 00:04:57 You know, like, exactly. Yeah, we should have like, you know, get prices behind a curtain or something. I really think that's the way to go for sure. Okay. Okay. So this week's episode is worst case scenario. Yes, it is. Almost to the end of season three. We're so close. Oh my God. Two more limericks than I'm done. Two more limerick than I'm done. Okay. All right, man. So let's go watch this. And we'll be right back, guys, with our discussion on worst case scenario. Hey, guys, Robbie and I are back from watching Worst Case Scenario. And guess who dropped in to join us for our recap and discussion of Worst Case Scenario,
Starting point is 00:05:42 none other than Martha Hackett, Cesska herself. Hey, welcome, Martha. I'm back, just like in the episode. Now, obviously, I knew that you were going to guest host with us today. But we were talking a little beforehand. I didn't remember how you came back. I was like, how is she going to come back? I didn't remember this episode.
Starting point is 00:06:08 Couldn't figure out how on earth you could come back. And I thought it was great what they created, what they wrote for you. Yeah, it's a good script. That's a great script. The story within the story within the story. Yes, yes. And what a wonderful surprise it must have been for you when you got a call from the producers saying, hey, we're bringing you back.
Starting point is 00:06:27 and you're thinking, but I died. And yet... Exactly. Exactly. Only on Star Trek. Only on Star Trek. Or maybe a soap opera. Yes, that's right.
Starting point is 00:06:36 Star Trek and soap operas, same playing field where you can die and come back to life. That's right. Well, Martha, Robbie and I usually start each recap off with our poetry synopsis of the episode. So, yeah. So it started with me doing the haiku and Robbie doing a limerick. So haiku being Japanese, I'm... Chinese American, you know, and then Robbie being having Irish and, you know, UK blood in him, a limerick was great. But then we swapped because, you know, Robbie was saying how difficult it was.
Starting point is 00:07:07 I'm like, okay, so I've been doing the limerick for season three. For season three, yes. And then Robbie's doing the haiku. So Robbie, will you start us off with your haiku for worst case scenario? I certainly will. Here's our, my haiku synopsis for worst case scenario. Maki versus Starfleet, a story left unfinished. Tom and Tuvok team. That's it. There you go. I'm a Tuvac team. That illiteration. Yes. Tom and Tuvok. I like to call Tom and Tuvok. Tuvom is Tom and Tuvom. Is that what you can do it? Okay. I'm going to go with Tuvom. Or I'm going to go. It's like a celebrity couple. Yes, exactly. It's like Brangelina. Yeah. When I see Tom and Tuvac, I always think of that song.
Starting point is 00:07:57 ebony and ivory that's all i can think of when i say right okay they're a cute couple they are a good couple we like that they're adorable and some good friction yes yes sexual tension yes always uh what about your limerick let's hear the limerick synopsis hollow novel and chants the crew sesca added changes who knew tuvac and tom won out lives in danger no doubt. Phaser backfires on SESCA, pew, pew, pew. Very funny. Nice. It is really cool, the backfire. Yes, it is. It is. My 21-year-old the other day was like, that's a pretty cool way to
Starting point is 00:08:38 die. Yes. Yes. And also, I was packing the biggest heat. I mean, it was like a 21st century gun. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, you did. Someone else had a big gun. The big phaser rifle. Yeah, that's right. And I, and I loved watching and comparing the two reactions to dying via a malfunctioning phaser rifle between Janeway when she bites it and then when you and yours is more rocker because like you almost do a little rocker thing to it you know which I like yeah I like your reaction better than Janeway so I'm going to say that right now Jamie took a big hit and then she sort of dove to the side she just I was experiencing you know that backfire thing yes that's how I got killed so yeah yeah it looks
Starting point is 00:09:23 I just want to call out. This was written by Ken Biller. Oh, yes. Yes. So I've been with us from the beginning. Ken Biller wrote the script. Good friend of mine. Alex, yeah, Alex Singer directed this episode. And I got to say, I noticed a difference in Alex's direction in this episode than he normally did. I think he really stepped up his game because Alex was an older director, more, you know, a more veteran director than some of our directors. And Alex really did some dynamic shots in this. I thought some of the low angles and some of those tight close-ups, there was a lot more variety in the way Alex directed this episode and I thought it was really great. It's also, I think, interestingly lit. It's dark and then, you know, because it's
Starting point is 00:10:09 this holodeck atmosphere. It is, it does look different than other episodes. I'm not sure I did another episode with Alex. I think this was my only one. The only one. Do you have any memories of Alex, working with Alex Singer? That's what, um, yeah. I mean, on this episode, yes. Um, because if, well, we, we can discuss it later or discuss it now. I mean, I come on pretty strong in this episode. I'm sort of aggressive throughout, not maybe the nuance I had other moments as that's
Starting point is 00:10:40 and I think I was directed that way, as I recall, because she has created, I mean, true not. She's in total control. And she's created this, uh, persona of herself that's going to take charge. So it's all tough. I mean, pretty much. Mm-hmm. Except for the kiss. You know what I mean? It's, it's aggressive. Yes. And Cessca's, Cessica's dream does come true for a moment here. She's, it's Cessca and Chikota. It's Cheska. Cheska. No, why would you go that way? the other way. Which way? Sucote.
Starting point is 00:11:19 Sucote. Come on. It's making it hard on yourself. Gascote. Do you guys remember? I'm talking about something different, but in the first few episodes, I did hear a Chakotay here and there from people. Yes.
Starting point is 00:11:33 Yes. It was still a time of it. Chacote. Yeah, there was. I demur. We were figuring out a lot of pronunciations the first season or two. It was changing. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:11:45 Cucote and. but balana didn't balana she she pronounced her name belana i don't know well it's different bala that's what it was balana or balana so there's two different pronunciations of that too right yeah so it happens um so since you're already talking about alex singer martha did alex you know give you any pointers regarding anything kind of odd in in terms of your performance in terms of your process as an actor that he do you recall any like that at all? No, I don't. I don't remember any issues. I think he just, I do, I remember vaguely that he just kept pushing me to be hard, which made sense. That's written. And I think,
Starting point is 00:12:34 you know, that's the hologram she created, you know. So there's no negotiating for this episode, you know. And what I'm referring to is that he was an extremely blunt or is an extremely blunt human being, he would come up to me and say, Garrett, I don't know what you're doing with your mouth. You're biting on your jaw. You're causing your jaw to clench. And it doesn't look good. Stop it.
Starting point is 00:12:56 So he would do this to me. Like he would come up with these little tips. Just random, just, you know, thoughts in his head. You have like a special, like a one real specific thing that he'd focus in on. Yeah. Just to relax you. Exactly. Just to build up your confidence and not make you self-conscious in any way, I say
Starting point is 00:13:16 ironically. Yes, that's what it was. I want to read a Ken Biller quote that I found. Ken Biller says about this episode, I won't say it's an out-and-out comedy. It ultimately has some serious jeopardy to a couple of characters, but it's a comic musing on the creative process. It operates on a lot of different levels.
Starting point is 00:13:36 It's a little inside stuff about the creation of the show, the process of writing Star Trek, and the interaction between the actors who we write for and the writing staff. It was a lot of fun to write. Well, I find that quote really interesting because I felt like there were a ton of jabs at the actors in this episode about like notes of how the, the holodeck story should be written and, you know, Bob Picardo comes in as the doctor with a very brilliant and specific lists of dialogue changes and things like that that I thought were, I'm sure they were loving jabs at the actors, but I definitely. Did that reflect real life happenings? Yes.
Starting point is 00:14:16 Oh, yes, it does. I think there were a number of actors that did that. Bob was probably maybe at the top of the list, I would say. Bob was at the very top of the list. Why would you say you would say he is the, there's not even a close. He would have dialogue pitches. But the thing about Bob is he was always great at saying, hey, I'll say what you wrote, but what do you think can I do this as an alternate?
Starting point is 00:14:38 So he was always very respectful. I don't mean to. Oh, well, I'm going to say I'm going to push that little further. At the height of Bob's suggestions, Bob would actually. Bob would actually stop rehearsal and tell the director how he thought the shot should go. I remember this. Did he really? Oh, yeah, he would say
Starting point is 00:14:53 I don't remember that. He would say, you know, if you go ahead and pan across this way and then you come into a two shot and actually that would afford you to have a much better efficient movement of camera. And then everyone would like, hmm, and he would say after that. Was he right? He would say, aren't I clever? He would say that after that and it was just like, okay. It's really. It really is 99% casting, isn't it?
Starting point is 00:15:14 Yes, it is. Absolutely. Perfectly cast. He was. Ken said that this was by far his favorite episode that he wrote, which I thought was interesting to read about. I found a quote from myself that talked about Tuvac, and I said I really enjoyed working with Tuvok and worst case scenario.
Starting point is 00:15:31 And I found this episode a lot of fun. I was quoted. Also Futures End and Futures End Part 2 because of the comic side that comes out of both of us, meaning Tuvac in Paris. So I thought that was fun to see Because I really did enjoy those characters together And the last detail I'll throw out
Starting point is 00:15:50 Before we get into the story was The Holo Novel features a Class 2 shuttle So when Paris and Janeway go off in a shuttle They're driving a, or Paris is driving a class two shuttle There were no class two shuttles on Voyager in the first season It didn't come around until the second season episode Threshold When I had a couple lizard babies with Janeway And that was the class two shuttle
Starting point is 00:16:12 that broke the work barrier. So that was a little mistake that they used the wrong kind of shuttle this hollow novel. It should have been a class one shuttle. Okay. Okay. I thought those were interesting little detail.
Starting point is 00:16:25 Okay. I'm done. Okay, here we go. Let's start the plot. And we are in the corridor and we have Balana. And of course, Chikote comes up and starts talking about he's not happy with Tuvok
Starting point is 00:16:37 and not happy with Janeway. Once I know if Torres is on his side regarding mutiny. And, of course, that's when we show up on the bridge. And by the way, in those scenes, I felt like Roxanne, I was seeing a very different side of Balana in those scenes. Like, she was kind of nervous. Yep.
Starting point is 00:16:57 She seemed a little vulnerable. Vulnerable, yes, absolutely. She seemed a little bit out of sorts, the very opening moment when she's sort of, she's standing in the hallway looking around as if she doesn't know where she is. So clearly that's when I immediately was like, wait, what's going on? Right. This is different than the normal balana that we see.
Starting point is 00:17:17 It draws you in, for sure. Yeah. Right. Okay. Now we're on the bridge. Janeway shows up. She's turning over control of the bridge to Chikote. And now she leaves to join Paris in a shuttle to meet the Rikani.
Starting point is 00:17:30 And basically, Chikote kind of walks around. And all of a sudden, out of the blue, two security personnel show up. One is Tom Morga, one of our regular stuntman. That's right. And the other one, I've written down as Ed Shearer. is the other security personnel to show up in the brain. His name is Ransom Gates. Okay. He's another stunt person, I think. Yes, I think he's a stunt guy. He's uncredited because they
Starting point is 00:17:53 called him Quincy or whatever the name is later on. They do give him a name. They give him a name? Yeah, they did give him a name. So Tom Morga, who has played every kind of alien as a stunt man on our show. He was Dennis Madelone's right-hand man. Tom Morgas awesome. Great to see him there. Yeah. I did notice that Carrie was sitting in my chair. driving the ship in that first was that carry was that was that was that was that okay that was regular uh background actor carry that was sitting at con but i'm gonna still uh i'm not gonna call him ransom gates i'm i'm still gonna say ed sheeran's cousin so okay um so they hand a pad to chakotay and two vox's like uh is something wrong and these uh chocote's like no no it's just
Starting point is 00:18:33 tomorrow's duty roster and um that's when chokote says to all hands let's do it which is so funny because that's a janeway um phrase janeway always says do it Right. So he used the same phrase. And Chikotay ends up shooting Tuvok. Morga shoots the con officer. Harry dodges Ed Sheeran's phaser fire, but ends up being shot by Bala. Bala shoots here. It's quite a move she makes. Yes, it was. Very, very controversial. It's really shocking, too, to see Tuva shot.
Starting point is 00:19:00 Yes. Yes, it is. Oh, so it's not shocking to see Harry shot then? Is that what you're saying? You didn't get shot in that one. Oh, no. Yes, it's totally. Yes. Later you don't get. Well, in this one, too, in both. Yes. No, both. Yes. Yes. I'm shocked. not here by Balana, and then later I'm shot by Chikote in when Paris plays the program, right? So now they're in the turbillift, and we have Torres feeling a little bit bad about shooting Harry, and Chocote has it, look, you just stunned him. It's okay, right? Chiquotay and Torres encountered this resistance in the corridors, and that's when they're fighting against other security officers.
Starting point is 00:19:32 And we see another longtime background actor and also sometime stand in for me, John Tampoya. He shot and falls down, another security person. And then we see fire coming from somewhere else and CESC arrives. And we see that this is the first time that Torres is playing this hollow novel out because she's totally shocked that Cessca is there. She's like, whoa, you know, hello. And Cessca basically takes out the third security personnel with her rifle. How heavy was that one that they gave you? Do you remember that thing being really weighty or?
Starting point is 00:20:04 It wasn't too bad, but it was solid. Yeah. You know, it felt good. Wasn't it possible. Yeah. One of the things that I always felt was they made those. out of wood. And I thought, why didn't you make this out of balsa wood? Not like hardwood. I felt like it was too heavy for what it was, you know, to do it. Although it gave it a sense of realism. Yes. Yeah, that's
Starting point is 00:20:21 true. Most definitely. That's true. By the way, when we see Jessica, she is Bajoran. And to me, immediately, I was like, wait a minute. Yeah, I know. But Bajoran, because that was what, that was her cover before all of her cover was blown and we realized, you know, she's when she made this. Yeah. Yeah, so a number of clues in there. And by the way, all these, all these firefights, we have no, we have never had anybody,
Starting point is 00:20:52 Robbie's mentioned this before. We never had any, what's the word? We didn't have a technical advisor to show us like, hey, what's the best way to, because like, you know, when Chikote and Torres jump out, in real life, they would have been shot immediately, right? I mean, they jumped right out and all of a sudden they take out the security people, right?
Starting point is 00:21:09 So there's a lot of this protocol of like how you would cover somebody else. A real trained police officers or, you know, special ops people would move to a corridor safely, you know, and work together. We never had that sort of training. We never had that. A lot of times there's these firefights where you're like, yeah. I just remember them being whatever they needed for the camera. Right. Yeah, exactly.
Starting point is 00:21:32 Not for any kind of accuracy. Yeah, yeah. And same thing in the mess hall. You know, we're in the mess hall. why doesn't, why doesn't Nelix and gang fire immediately at SESCA and gang when they come in? No, everyone's like, you know, you kind of like, you're in the headlights. And I love your line. I love your line, Martha, when you're like, Neelix, when after he becomes the turncoat and he switches side.
Starting point is 00:21:56 Yeah, he says, I know a winner when I see where he jumps to the other side. Cessca's like, do you want me to shoot him? I just like, that's hysterical. It was fantastic. Yeah. So funny. Chikote is like. No, no, no, no, we're still going to need a cook.
Starting point is 00:22:09 All the various teams check in with the commander, and they have taken control of the ship, and Chikote says, we did it. By the way, I think when the various teams check in, we have Raphael Sparge, who played Jonas. Is he in there? I think that he has an audio only, yes. I think they actually had him come in and, you know, pay him coming in.
Starting point is 00:22:31 I don't think that's right, though, Rob, because he's dead at this point. We don't have him. she created the, no, but when she created the program in the holodeck, they actually got Raphael Sparks to come back on and do a, just, yeah, ADR only. That's brilliant. Oh, by the way, I just want to rewind for a second. When we first see Cessca, she mentions the line, she says, it's just like old times.
Starting point is 00:22:54 Now, in the mess hall, when Cessca says, we did it, then Chacote says, just like old time. So this, this phrase keeps popping up because obviously Cessca programmed this and she wanted, that to be a prominent theme is that, you know, it's just like how we were before when we were in love, kind of a thing, right? Yeah. I do not side. Yes. So now, that's right.
Starting point is 00:23:17 So now, Robbie, now they start rounding up. That's when they're clearing the quarters. Yes. So one thing I noticed in this, I don't know if you remember it, but every time a door opened, a couple of doors opened, and it was like the characters just happened to be walking across the room randomly as the door over it. In fact, the first guy, the extra, the door opens and he's walking across the room. But if he had continued to walk, there's a wall right there.
Starting point is 00:23:42 Like, why is he going that way? Yeah. It's just like, like Martha, you said, it's for the shot. Like, they just want the shot to, you know, to happen that way. But it made no sense why he's walking and he's two feet away from a wall. And plus everyone's fully dressed in their uniform. I would have like to see somebody in a towel, you know, that would have made more sense, you know. So the first person you round up is, is Larson.
Starting point is 00:24:04 our background actor, our tall Scandinavian crew member. And once again, I'm going to say gold looks best on blonde people. I do not agree. I thought in this episode, I remembered you saying that. Gold did not look good on me. I thought it looked great on YouTube. It's pasty. It makes me look pasty.
Starting point is 00:24:20 No, I'm going to disagree with you. I think you look great. Okay. So now we're in Cargo Bay One and Tocote. By the way, they get Kess. Yes, and Kess, of course. They round up. And I give her a shove.
Starting point is 00:24:31 You shove her in the cargo bay. Well, first you tell her, no talking. you know when you take her out of the quarters you're very mean to her and the cargo bay you kind of elbow her forward you know and you just ding just hit her like that very um kess by the way is wearing her her season one and two the early seasons hairdo because at this point in our real story her hair has changed yeah so that was another clip i'm like wait a minute that's the old hairdo she's changed that right but she was also walking to nowhere yeah i swear both times i'm like It's on a road to nowhere.
Starting point is 00:25:05 Yeah. Yes. All right. Get the know. So now we're in this cargo bay. And Chikote is giving this speech to all the captured crew members. You have a choice. The whole crew, which we know is 148 because they recently said that.
Starting point is 00:25:18 Yeah. And I think there's about six extras. There's six there. There's nobody there. Why didn't they spend the money and bring in 50 extras or something? Yeah. To me, that took me out. I was like, oh, come on, guys.
Starting point is 00:25:31 spend a little money. That's true. Chacote says to the help, Chocote says to hell with Starfleet principles, we're not going to waste time investigating every anomaly we come across. So basically Chacote is saying no to science. We're going to use any means necessary to acquire technology to shorten our trip back home. And Paris now interrupts. And now we're kind of taken out like, what's going on? Because everyone's reacting to Paris's intrusion, which is kind of cool, right? They're all holodeck characters. Go ahead. It was, and Chacote was taking some shots at Janeway as a character. You know, like, we're not going to just follow any little, you know,
Starting point is 00:26:07 we're not going to show any interest in science. We're not going to go check out some anomaly that looks interesting, which I thought is funny because they're the ones writing those stories. Yeah, like Janeway going, you know, let's go over and check this thing out or let's be friends with them. So yeah, yeah, I thought it was interesting. It was. So you interrupt basically because Torres is late,
Starting point is 00:26:29 who had lunch date with you. And she's not happy. She's, I guess this is jumping into someone's holodeck program is like reading somebody's diary, evidently. Like, you're not supposed to do this, right? So Torres is not happy. In Paris, love this line. It's not as if I caught you dancing the rumba with a naked boleon. I know.
Starting point is 00:26:47 I wrote that line down too. Oh, nice line there. Oh, I love that. So you missed the lunch date and Torres was basically completing a routine purge of the database. This is what we learn as the audience. And that's how she found this hollow nod. about a Maki Mutiny. No clue who the author is, though.
Starting point is 00:27:05 By the way, all the actors are frozen in the background. Do you remember doing this at all? You know, when I watched it again, I thought, you know, we froze pretty well. I couldn't tell if, I couldn't tell if you were, yeah, I couldn't tell if you were actually frozen or if we had done a green screen plate. I don't know. To me, it looked like a green screen plate. It did? Yes, it did.
Starting point is 00:27:28 Really? You think you guys totally just every, all? 30 of you or six of you, whatever the number was, froze like that. Definitely wasn't 30. I was looking very closely, like, oh, I think this might be green screen. So I don't know. Maybe. If it were green screen, because I've done this bit before as a director, quite a few times.
Starting point is 00:27:45 And the way that you show that some, you know, people are frozen is they should be in the middle of action, you know, that something is happening, that they're standing up and they're caught halfway or I did this on the show Resident Alien last. where we were on a city bus and the bus is supposed to freeze and everybody and these alien lights come on and everybody's frozen in the bus except for two people. And one thing that I did was I got props to give us the coffee cup that had like rubber like coffee spilling out of it. And so we had the actor, the background actor just hold the coffee cup and you could see the coffee kind of coming out. And so we were able to, without doing visual effects or anything, it was a way of showing
Starting point is 00:28:33 like, oh, in the middle of this bus, you know, hitting the brakes hard, the action is frozen. And there was another reason. I think it was maybe not a green screen because we're all in sort of positions that we could maintain. Yeah, that's what I thought too. And I wish that it had been a little more active. I wish that people were starting to, you know, bring a rifle up, you know, or do something. But look at what was happening before. Everyone's listening to Chikote talking. So there is no action.
Starting point is 00:29:02 The only action was they looked to the doorway when you came in. And so that's where they froze it. When Paris comes in, everyone looks because he's like, Balana, what are you doing here? And everyone looks. And so that's what you have. But you're right. It would have been cool if there was an action.
Starting point is 00:29:16 But because of what happened right before, there is no action. Yeah. Except for listening. A little between the very few background and sort of the, no offense to anybody but boring freeze position it was like yeah i wish that it was a little more dynamic that we felt like paris walked in the middle of something happening right that's a key moment because now we know it's a holodeck game exactly that's a hollow novel yeah correct yeah all right so paris is basically saying hey should we report this to the captain
Starting point is 00:29:48 and then you know they basically talk about hey we need to run this entire program before we can give the captain a full report so yeah there was some cute sort of like subtexting conversation about well I think we should you know look into this whole thing before we tell her right it was a cute a cute banter cute you know rom-com dialogue with yes on and bala yes yes um Paris then runs the program himself and I wrote down here looks good in gold I wrote that down I'm going to say that right now Paris in gold not better on blondes no that's what I wrote Blonde's are still going to look better in gold than any other hair. I am a summer.
Starting point is 00:30:27 You are a fall, okay? You're in autumn. Autumn is your palate. I am a summer palette. Okay, we can agree to disagree. What are you, Mark? What palette are you? What season?
Starting point is 00:30:40 You know, I think I'm somewhere between fall and spring, not winter, but, you know, both of those things. Summer's too much. Maybe winter. I think you're a spring. I'm going to give you a spring, Martha. That's your palate. Okay.
Starting point is 00:31:01 Well, I like you in gold. And now in this, when you're running the program, you decide to be a little bit of a turncoat right off the bat. And you try to warn Tuvok. Chacote does still shoot Tuvok. But now, instead of Tom Morga shooting anybody, Paris tackles Tom Morga, Harry shoots Ed Sheeran's cousin.
Starting point is 00:31:21 and then Chakote takes out here. And then I wonder, then I borrowed down, where did Ayala come from? Ayala was not in the first playing of this program, but now Ayala is now part of this program. I thought, okay, so it's changed a little bit there. And now we're in the brig. Paris asked Tuvac when they're going to retake ship. There's a little bit of conversation there.
Starting point is 00:31:45 And then we show Tom switching sides very quickly in Cargo Bay One. He's like, nope, I'll join you. But now we're in the mess hall. We have a scene where Paris is talking about how Chocote didn't trust him. So he assigned him to lubricate the warp plasma manifolds. Neelix comes over. Lubrication is definitely a demotion. And you're assigned to be the lubricator.
Starting point is 00:32:06 Yeah. It's embarrassing. You could have that on your business card. Tom Harris and underneath lubricator. Professional lubricator. Professional lubricator. Yeah. Neelix comes over and talks about how he played the hollow novel.
Starting point is 00:32:20 But by the way, when Neelix comes over and they cut to Roxanne's look to Paris, like, you know, like I, it was great. Her look was awesome. That she spilled the beans, the doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a good, it was a good look. And, you know, Paris is worried, how many other people have you told about this? And, of course, Kim then comes over and then says that, you know, he's heard about this from Ayala, Ayala told him about it. So a lot of people know. And then after that, I think we have Paris's very first personal log. As far as I know, this, you have never done a personal log and you're talking about no.
Starting point is 00:32:52 Yeah, you say you're going to play a full-fledged member of Chakotay's team of mutineers. So you decide now to go along with everything, right? So now... And I get to wear the maki clothes, really because I wanted to be in a comfortable Maki Club. Right. So now we jump back into the Holo Novel and we're on the bridge. You are out of uniform in your Maki clothing.
Starting point is 00:33:10 And speaking of Maki clothing, Cesska, have anything near you that you can show us that might be Maki-like? Martha. Did I just call Martha Cuska? I did, didn't that? Yes, he did. Oh, my God. There it is.
Starting point is 00:33:27 All right, for all you listeners, Martha just got out. and she is now showing us one of her machi outfits that she actually wore on Voyager. And now the question. Especially for this episode. Yes, just for this episode, just for worst case scenario. And Martha, can you please share with us how on earth did you come by this piece of clothing? I'm going to put it to the side because it's shedding. Still looks great, though.
Starting point is 00:33:54 Yeah, you know, some friend of years ago, a friend of a friend of, a friend of, of my ex-husbands saw it online on an auction. I think must have been eBay, right, or something. And he bought it, unbeknownst to me, and I never knew about that. And then years later, he, about five years ago, he gave it to my sons to give to me, and they gave it to me for holiday gift. But it was a surprise, really. Now, when you opened up that box and saw that in there, Did you know immediately what it was or were you thinking, this is not my style of clothing. Like were you thinking that they gave you something random? They were so excited about it.
Starting point is 00:34:35 I bet they were. And my older son said, you'd wear it, wouldn't you? You could wear it, Mom, right? That's where I had to really temper my reaction. You'd wear it again, right? And I said, so I said, you know, I was really thin. I don't think I would fit into this. That was my only way out.
Starting point is 00:34:57 You're probably one of the few people to have any wardrobe from Voyager, other than Robbie McNeil, which we won't talk about. But other than that, everyone else's uniforms were auctioned off by Christie's auctions, and Paramount made a mint out of just selling. Oh, yeah. I want to know how much you paid for it. Yeah, you should find out. I'd want to know.
Starting point is 00:35:17 And it came with a card. Yeah, we're showing everything and who wore it and everything. That's very cool. Yeah, it's very cool. Thank you for showing that to us. And I don't have a card with my uniforms. You know what, Robbie? Let's just not even go down there.
Starting point is 00:35:29 I sort of did it in the black market. Yeah, okay, whatever. Yeah, we're done. Sneaky. Okay, yeah, moving on. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh, my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane.
Starting point is 00:35:42 Trip after a trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. So while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecue, and your three-day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back.
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Starting point is 00:36:36 Upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. We're back on the bridge and warp engines are offline. Cessca says Boulon is on it. Paris is now at Tactical. Tom Paris is at Tactical. He's at Tuvac Station. And Janeway's in the Maquis Shuttle.
Starting point is 00:37:01 In the Maquis look. You look good in Maquis look. I love it. Not as good as the gold, but you look good in the Maki look. And Janeway's shuttle returns. Now she's on the view screen. And I love this dialogue between Chikote and Janeway. It's so calm and just reserved and just so much subtext is going on.
Starting point is 00:37:18 No, it's just wonderful. I have a question about the view screen, though. like when they cut back and forth, we see Tom and Janeway on the view screen in the shuttle. Yep. And that's the Holodeck Tom and Holliday and the real Tom
Starting point is 00:37:33 who's playing the game is at Tuvac Station. Yeah. But it goes from like a two shot on the view screen and cuts back to Chikote. And then it goes to a close up of Janeway. Does the computer just randomly decide what shots to put on the view screen? Like, oh, I think I'll go with the two shot on this one.
Starting point is 00:37:50 Like it feels like there was you know, there should be one camera. After I wrote down this note, I started thinking, we have the Google home. You know, the Google makes their home, like it's a screen that sits on your counter. You can video conference with family and friends. And that, my Google, actually does pan around. Like, it's, I don't know how it, I guess with movement and voice, it sort of picks who you can, who speaking. And so as you move around the room, it sort of follows you.
Starting point is 00:38:22 Google Home. So I figured if Google Home can do it, I guess Starfleet can do it. And you know what, Rob, you don't have any privacy, man. Yeah. No. I mean, if you think about it, Zoom, Zoom does that now. As I'm speaking, my box is lit up, right? And then once you start speaking, it's choosing. It's choosing right now. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So Starfleet, so Star Trek, again, was ahead of the curve and doing things. Most definitely. The computer was doing things that Zoom did 20 years later. Okay. Most definitely. All right. Thanks. we talked about this. Yeah, yeah. Of course, the conversation goes south, and Chacote now fires, Janeway fires on Voyager. Chacote fires back, destroys the shuttle. But during, before being destroyed,
Starting point is 00:39:05 Janeway and Paris have now transported over to Voyager while the shields were down, and Janeway and Paris are now trying to free the prisoners. Yes. Yes. So now we're in the brig. And Janeway is trying to deactivate the force field. Now Chacote shows up. And, uh, Janeway stuns Chakotay, who, you know, believe it or not, he's still so strong. Evidently, he has enough power to still shoot Janeway. Yeah, I put this to Janeway. Yeah, they shoot each other. They shoot each other.
Starting point is 00:39:34 And Paris has his phaser on Rebel Paris, who also draws his phaser. So very cool shot of Paris on Paris. Yeah, it was cool. Very cool shot. Yeah. And so there was a two shot that was obviously vis effects of Paris holding a weapon to fake paris. But then there was some coverage, there was some coverage over the shoulder. Yep. I was trying to remember, because you have to have a real actor there, a photo double to
Starting point is 00:40:01 shoot over their shoulder to me in one position and then the other side. Yeah. I don't remember who that photo double was. I wonder if it was Keith, my stand in, because he did look a lot, you know, over the shoulder. It might have been Keith. It had to have been, right? I mean, just for point of reference, right? Hired someone else that was a better match. I don't know. but there was definitely someone in those in those tighter angle that was standing in the foreground right when they shot both sides of that yeah um and then you know the program ends and paris is really befuddled he doesn't understand what it's done it's done so the next scene we're now on the holodeck where it looks like my background the hologrid and torus and paris are trying to figure out
Starting point is 00:40:45 the author of this holographic program which is called insurrection alpha by bypassing the security overrides, but still, even doing that, they can't figure it out. They don't know. Neelich shows up and he says, he's asked everybody and nobody knows who is the author of this insurrection alpha program. So now we're in the briefing room. So after the discussion of official business by Janeway, Janeway does bring up the Holo Novel. It's been accessed by 33 different crew members. 47 times by 33 crew members. It is popular like wildfire. It is. It is. I love the face acting in this scene, by the way. All of the reactions to you and to Nelix and to me, Balana. And Tim is just this, you know, Tuvok is deadpan. Yeah. But some of the face acting was amazing. It was, it was off the charts. We were very, we were very, a lot of facial mugging. Tuvok admits that he was the author and that he says, it's not a hollow novel. It was a tactical training program for junior security officers. So. When the Starfleet and Maquis Cruz bonded, he decided there was no use to finish this program.
Starting point is 00:41:58 There's no longer any need for this program. So the program was left unfinished. So then he talks about permanently deleting the program. He says, we got to get rid of this. With all due respect, this is Janeway's great line. With all due respect, Mr. Tuvok, loosen up, which everyone loves that. I know. I laughed out loud.
Starting point is 00:42:16 By the way, when Janeway's asking the room, like, who is? here has who here has played this game yeah and first tom and balana say you know we have and then it cuts over to you and neelix but chicote asked like that right and then yeah yeah and then both of your hands come up together we're not even look at each other we both kind of mimic each other yeah it was very funny oh very funny and and on the way down we have a very awkward flourish of our hands too so it's like it's a lot of mugging and face acting and both definitely a lot of bits and yeah and a big group chuckle i think Yeah, a big group chuckle, exactly. It's cute, you know, I mean, overall, it's a cute scene.
Starting point is 00:42:55 Yeah, but Janeway wants to finish it. She's like, come on, loosen up, have some fun, let's finish it. Again, I'm going to say, if Janeway had trusted Tuvok, we wouldn't be in this mess. Janeway keeps making the calls that get us in trouble episode after episode. She's like, let's go check out that anomaly and it takes over the ship. or let's go meet those aliens they seem friendly yes no they're not she's she's trying to be she's trying to help everybody all the time and she says look i'm not just the captain i'm a leader of a community and communities need entertainment culture creative outlets it's only natural that we should
Starting point is 00:43:33 start creating our own so that you know it's it's it's an honest um it comes from an honest good place it and you're right i tease i know you're teasing you are teased but she always tease often the source of the catalyst of everything bad that happens to voyager the challenges the notion the notion of community was something i hadn't heard before right did you guys was it ever discussed because it it's kind of a interesting yeah road to go down oh definitely no and up until this point no you don't hear that so much from her i mean it was definitely a new thought process from her which was kind of cool you know it's like oh i like that that's new so that's true that's a new one um now we I jumped to Mess Hall and Paris and Tuvac are there.
Starting point is 00:44:18 Tuvok is offering his probability studies before beginning the scenario, which is hilarious. Here's my data. And Paris says, he doesn't need it. I'm going to wing it. Which is kind of the way Robbie directs. He wings it, which is his real true personality. And Paris says, you know what, don't get so caught up in logic.
Starting point is 00:44:38 And Tuvok's like, well, logic is an integral part of narrative structure according to the dictates of poetics by Tehain, and I love how he has to say that Tehain is a Vulcan. By Tehain, a Vulcan. Okay, we know who Tehain. Oh, he said of Vulcan, I thought. I reround that multiple times. It came out. It sounds like of, Volk. I thought it was of Vulcan at first. I thought it was of at first, and I reround it million times and it kept sounding like, ah, to me. Yeah, like, Plato and Aristotle aren't good enough. You know, you need Tahane. So Tuvok doesn't want Paris to turn this into a parody.
Starting point is 00:45:23 And then now Taurus shows up, and this is when she says that the story needs a little heart. Did you have some notes on this? Yes. So, so Torres shows up and she says, well, up until now, this story has been nothing but action, which is fine. But what this needs is a little heart, a little emotion. Yeah. And Tuvok says, we are not writing a romance novel, now my head went right to the romance novel that Janeway attempted in the first season or two that I thought was a big failure. And I think this was the writers, that we, we thought.
Starting point is 00:45:59 We thought I hated that frickin romance novel. It was the worst. It was the worst. And I think this was the writers literally saying, having Boulana say, hey, let's do a romance novel and Tuvac going, we are not doing a romance novel because they gave up on that romance novel. I think we, you know, everyone agreed. It was not, didn't help her character. It just didn't feel wasn't very exciting. By the way, this is a total non sequitur, but that little girl that shows up in the romance novel, the daughter of the guy is the same girl in real life, I think, the daughter of Boba Cardo's character. No. Yes. I think there's some, yeah, do some research on that. Random non sequitur.
Starting point is 00:46:38 uh yeah so yeah she wants a emotion and romance she wants a romance novel which i love the writers kind of saying we're not doing any more romance novel right neelix neelix shows up neelix wants to help paris says uh he wants to have a steamy love scene between the con officer and and the engineer and she says uh something what it was her response like oh yeah that's not very realistic or something which I thought was also funny. No, no, she said, that's realistic. Yeah, but sarcastic way. Yes, that's realistic.
Starting point is 00:47:13 That's never going to happen. Exactly. This is the one place, that moment, that line, I was very happy as an actor with what I did. But I thought that exchange, because Tom and Boulana are just now, Martha, finally in the last few episodes, beginning to directly address
Starting point is 00:47:34 their interest in each other and their connection and their relationship. So I found that exchange a little tricky and I wish we had played it differently anyway. But otherwise, I thought the scene
Starting point is 00:47:46 it was really fun. It was everybody, you know, hitching their two cents on what this story should be like the actors of Voyager did with the writers. Right, like a writer's room. Exactly.
Starting point is 00:47:57 Right. So now after Neelix offers his suggestions that, you know, he would never write Neelich that way, portraying the captain like you did in the story. So now Tuvac and Paris leave to find someplace more quiet to work. They're in the corridor. Tuvok and Paris are arguing over what to do with this story and they enter the holodeck. And guess who's there? The doctor is already waiting for them and gives his suggestions, which Tuvac quickly shuts down by transferring the doctor's program
Starting point is 00:48:23 right back to sick bay, which was brilliant. I love that scene. Tuvac opens the narrative parameters file, which according to Harry then causes power loss to the transporters. The calm is down. Holodeck systems are completely scrambled. So this is CESCA's plan all along, now set into motion. That's smart, smart Cessca. Now we're in the brig, and Cessca's holodeck character has shown up, and Tuvac and Paris are behind the force field, and they're completely perplexed. They have no idea what's going on, and Cessca informs them that the holiday is now sealed, and the safety protocols are off. And by the way, Martha, I remember, as I watched this episode, I remember thinking when I did this episode that you and I had not worked together like I don't think we had been in many
Starting point is 00:49:11 scenes at all. If we were in scenes before this, it was very peripherally because I remember when I was doing this episode, I was like, oh, this is fun. She's really good. Like, this is, I was having a good time and I just, yeah, that came back to me as I watched the other. Yeah, you're right. I don't think we had any exchanges except when I was on the bridge in like episode two or three. and I had medical shoulders on instead of the engineering shoulder. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, very little interaction.
Starting point is 00:49:42 So this was really fun. And I remembered it being really fun and being aware that we hadn't, you know, in a lot of the scenes that are coming up when I was in scenes with you, that it was really fun. And I honestly don't remember you being in this episode this much, Robbie. It was just like, wow, he's gone over this one. I was quite jealous. I was like, man, he got to work with Martha, this whole thing.
Starting point is 00:50:04 time. I know. That's what I'm saying, though. Like a lot of us didn't. We didn't get to work with you that much before. It was really focused in on just a few characters. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. So let me continue. So the holiday is sealed off. That's what we learned from CESCA and the safety protocols are off. And I just love this line from you, Martha, which means if I shoot you and I am going to shoot you, you'll die. But not just yet. You've got 10 seconds to run. I mean, just the tone with which how you played this, Martha, was perfect. Absolutely. perfect. I mean, I just loved every little bit of your acting. I just, I gush over you. I literally do. You are arguably, or I'm just going to, I'm not going to say arguably, you are the best recurring
Starting point is 00:50:44 character on Star Trek Voyager, period. Hands down. Period. Right on. Thank you. Killed it. We love you. They wrote me well. I mean, it was good writing, too. Mm-hmm. That's true. Tuvac tries his calm to get out of there, but calms are down, according to Susco. Sorry, that's not going to happen. You better start running. And I just love how Paris goes like, I guess we better run. I mean, you're very casual at this point, Robbie. I mean, I'm just like, okay. I thought it was a game. I know. And you're, and when you're running on the corridor, you're still making smart-ass comments like, huh, leave it up to Cessca. Even death won't even stop her or something like that, right? You're just running along, joking and kind of laughing.
Starting point is 00:51:24 Janeway then cat sees you guys and she whispers, hey, come over here. Come into the transporter room. And so that's when you guys run in there and realize that this. Holographic Janeway is still in the midst of playing this Holo novel or Hala program out. And Paris makes the comment. This is a holographic Janeway. And Paris says, well, maybe we should help her. Like, we can fight Cessca and take back the ship. And Tuvok, who's much smarter than Paris, Tupac says, no, I think we should not participate.
Starting point is 00:51:55 Let's just not. No interaction. Avoid participating in this. Anything we do could lead to trouble. And then Cesska and Chakotay show up. Oh, yeah. And I feel like this might have been one of the first scenes we shot, actually. Really?
Starting point is 00:52:11 This one. It was an earlier scene because this is the scene where I went, where I had a memory today as I watched it. I had a memory of going, oh, I'm in a scene with Martha Hackett. And I think that happened early, you know, the first time, you know, as we went through the other scenes, you know, I got used to doing scenes with you. But I remember being in the transporter room was the place that I was
Starting point is 00:52:33 very aware of, oh, we hadn't worked together. Yeah, I think you're right. I think that was one of the first shots we did. I think so. So basically, Janeway, Suska dares Janeway to shoot. Janeway does pull the trigger, but Suska has manipulated the phaser rifle, so now that Janeway is basically vaporized.
Starting point is 00:52:50 Do you remember Kate doing that bit? Yeah, I have a vague memory of it, but do you remember her taking the hit from the, you know, the backfire of the rifle and dying? I do not. Okay. I remember. I remember her laughing hysterically.
Starting point is 00:53:08 I remember her. I wish I remember her when, you know, because we have to lock off and do a plate of no actor and get a for the vis effects of it all. And then she has to fall onto the pad on the floor below frame. And I just remember her laughing at like, I don't know why. I remember just her being hysterical thinking that she looked ridiculous and how do I do this? And I don't know.
Starting point is 00:53:31 That's that came to me. as I watched the episode. I can see that right now. You've painted a very good picture there. So after she's vaporized, you go take sort of grabs Cessca at the waist. They make out. Let's just say it.
Starting point is 00:53:44 They make out. They make out. We lock lips. He has one line. He says, you're an incredible woman, Cessca. And then they kiss.
Starting point is 00:53:51 But what they missed was, he should have said, just like old times. You're an incredible woman, Cessca. He should have thrown that one in there. His comedy comes in threes. And they've already done two readings of that line.
Starting point is 00:54:03 this would have been the perfect place for the third. I felt in that moment like, okay, Cessca's programmed this story where she gets Chacote, which she is, she was determined to make Chacotee love her. And she gets Chacote.
Starting point is 00:54:16 And then Paris's response is basically, Cessca, none of this is real. Yeah. Maybe you try to get to, I thought it was really mean. It was mean of Paris to say, oh,
Starting point is 00:54:30 you're happy right now with your Chiquet. It's not real. Yeah, but you got your just desserts right after that because the way she programmed it, she's like, okay, go ahead, Chikote. And Chikote is like, I've been waiting for this. And boom, he shoots you with the phaser with all the safety protocols off. And boy, do you feel it. You're like, uh, phaser burn.
Starting point is 00:54:49 I had to suffer hard. We're suffering. Yeah. It was pretend suffering. Yeah, that's true. That's true. They didn't really shoot me with a what? Really?
Starting point is 00:54:57 That was not a really. Oh, okay. Thanks for sharing. Well, then you run. Then you guys run out of there, right? and you run a sickbay and you're like why why are we here and then two bucks well maybe these holographic you know instruments can help help you and the doctor's program shows up and then he gets really forceful he like shoving me back on a bit he does hits me with some kind of hypo spray that
Starting point is 00:55:19 do you know what he put in you 20 ccs of nitric acid oh he injected you with acid and i made a note here he is far scarier here than in darkling like i felt darkling they were pushing they were pushing it so hard, you know, with the mouth prosthetics, making him look like. Because when any time you try to look evil, boy, it just goes sideways. No, he was so cold. Cold and scary as heck. Yes. And robotic. And robot. Oh, yeah. Really robotic. Just good. Yeah. And throws both of you out. He throws you so hard, both of you hit the bulkhead, basically, outside the entrance of Sick Bay. And yeah, I love that scene with the doctor. And now you guys decide. It was a nice, it was a good fight scene. I got to swing at a hologram again. Right.
Starting point is 00:56:04 One time, yeah, Teufa got choked. Yeah. So, choked and I, I swung and missed. Yeah, which you should have learned your lesson when you did that in an earlier episode. I know. I swung at the doctor and I tried to slap him once and it went right through. It went right through him and you did it again. But when we did it that time, it didn't look good to me. This swing actually looked good. You did. This was a much better swing, but you didn't learn from the initial swings outcome, right? And then then we learned that CESCA is basically programmed. the program so that you guys will be tortured all throughout before she she doesn't want you to die quickly she wants to extend this you're horrible and it's it's really it's absolutely what the funniest
Starting point is 00:56:46 part is when you guys realize you're being tortured then you're in the corridor and you decide to go to the jeffreys tube which i wrote down in actuality that's even more torture because on your knees in that Jeffries to you. It's so painful. Like the, oh, it's the worst. So it's a side note. It's a behind the scenes, kind of a joke, I guess. But actors on Star Trek don't like the Jeffries 2, typically. It's horrible.
Starting point is 00:57:11 Clusterphobic. It's painful on your knees. Yeah, really bad, really bad. So we're on the bridge, Janeway Torres, and Kim. Janeway decides, okay, the best way we can help them, rewrite the program, right? So now Paris and Tuvok are still in the Jeffries Tube, too, when they come across this crazy plasma leak. Let's go back to the bridge because when they figure out that Seska had programmed it,
Starting point is 00:57:34 so the next time Tuvac opened the narrative files that her additions would be triggered. Yes. And I thought, how did Seska know that Tuvok was creating this super secret program when none of, no one else knew about it, Balana stumbled on it when she was cleaning out the files or whatever? like this was one flop bump to me that I was like how did she know about the super secret thing well I think she was a really good spy yeah I mean you know when if you think back when the Kazon and CESCA take over the ship I know everything about operating the shift not just the engineering I could fly it I you know I knew and and I think she was doing things
Starting point is 00:58:19 all the time yeah okay that's that was the logic I applied to no I I did this. That's the same logic I applied. I just said the attention to detail that SESCA probably, you know, her character is just so knowledgeable about everything. Like nothing, nothing kind of escapes her peripheral vision in a way, right? So she's always on top of it. No detail is left out.
Starting point is 00:58:41 That's right. No detail is left. I buy that. No stone left unturned. I buy that. I will also say on the bridge, this is the moment where I was like, oh, all this shit is going down, excuse my language. All this crap is going down. And if Janeway had listened to Tuvok in the briefing room, we wouldn't be like Janeway. Now you've got to save everybody because you
Starting point is 00:59:06 said let's write this program. So they're in the Jeffries Tube, this plasma leak. They come across that, which is, by the way, Tim Russ and I are crawling through the Jeffreys Tube shoulder to shoulder. Yeah. And I remember how small they were for just one person to go through. group. I was like, oh my God, how did we get? No. Sometimes, you know, Martha, you may remember, they'll ask you to stand close to another actor to get it in the shot. And it's just unnaturally close. You're just, people would never be that close face to face or this was a moment. I was like, I would never crawl down that Jeffers tube next to Tuvok. Why am I doing that? Like, there's no room. Anyway, it's still,
Starting point is 00:59:49 it played well, though. It didn't look bad. You know, it didn't look messed up. Um, so this plot this plasma league is supposed to cause further injury and harm to both of you but now magically a plasma extinguisher appears and they realize or at least two vok believes that this is um Janeway kind of helping out right and that's what Janeway said she's going to start writing she's going to try to write she said that earlier so now we see it's she's she's having some success right she got him a plasma extingu right and then they see this message from Janeway to go to the weapons locker and as they go to the door to head that way it's Chiquotay and Ed Sheeran's cousin are waiting for them.
Starting point is 01:00:27 And it's completely their plan is foiled. And then Janeway realizes now, now this is crazy. They're no longer in the bridge. Now they're in engineering where Janeway and Torres are working on these rewrites. And they realize that Cessca has already outthunked them. This is a game of chess. Cessca has already programmed algorithms to combat Janeway's changes to the program. It's basically going to adapt.
Starting point is 01:00:52 Like if somebody tries to change SESCA's writing, she'll resist a death. Yeah. Like a virus. It's a virus. I always thought of that. Look at the parallel to the real world right now. Look at this right now. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:01:06 So crazy. So now they're in the cargo bay and Janeway is frantically reprogramming everything she can and she changes the personality traits of Chakotay's hologram where he's like, ah, you know what? Do we really need to kill them? do we really? And of course, Cesska's program overrides that and Cessca kills Chacote right there. It's interesting. So when Cessca first decides, let's execute these guys and she says to the guards, you know, bring him over here. We're going to execute them. There's a shot of a wide shot that Janeway's looking at, you know, like the surveillance shot or something. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:01:43 And I saw the guard that has me. He walks me over and then he's looking down for my mark. on the ground. You can see it in the shot. He's like supposed to be the tough guy guard, but you see him like looking at the ground for where should I put Robbie the actor. He's helping you. Yeah, he's helping me to make sure I get on my mark. So that was sweet of him. That caught my eye. Martha, I think you're lying right before you shot Chakotay should have been. It's not like old times. Taking him out right there. That was brilliant. When she shoots him, by the way, we go back to Janeway seeing this on that surveillance shot. can you see Robert kind of fall backwards and jump because clearly the pad that he's falling
Starting point is 01:02:28 onto, the, you know, the soft pad so he doesn't hurt himself, is right off camera. It was another one of those moments of like, oh, he's definitely falling onto a pad back there. Yeah, but you're the only one who's going to know that, though. That's what I'm telling the people. That's our job, Garrett, to tell the people. All the secrets revealed. All the secrets of the pat-off camera. I want to know your thoughts in that final scene there.
Starting point is 01:02:56 Do you remember anything, Martha, and shooting that final shooting Chakotay scene at all? It was all fun in there because lots of stuff was happening and turns were happening. And, yeah, I mean, I thought it was fun and funny. Yes. We were having a good time. Yeah, we had a really good time. Yeah, yeah, we did.
Starting point is 01:03:18 I don't know. Yeah, that's what I mean. All right. And then, of course, the very, very final, you know, beats of that scene or Tuvac is, is basically, no, no, how does this set up? You basically say, you're going to self-destruct the ship, right? She shoots Chikote. I've said it to self-destruct unless he gives me the gun. That's what it was, right?
Starting point is 01:03:38 But right before that, there's a ship shake because Janeway has added the Rikani attack. Ah, Rikani attack. That's right. And so the ship shakes and the gun goes down. And that's how Chikote... gets the, or not Chukotay, Tupac, Chukotay's dead. Tukovac gets the rifle. And so now he's got this big phaser rifle.
Starting point is 01:04:02 Right. And, but then he makes that comment. He goes, I'm putting on phasers set to kill or something. But really, he was setting it to malfunction, right? That's the little, do, do, do it's in there, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's the chess game right there.
Starting point is 01:04:15 And so instead of having the ship self-destruct, Tuvac relinquishes the phaser rifle to Cessca, who doesn't know that Tuvac has played the chess game and kind of outplayed her there. And so then we have Martha with her fantastic death that just it's, it's beautiful, it's poetic, wonderful. I loved it. It looked better than Janeway's death, for sure. It was a good, it was a very, very internalized, very painful death. Yes, it was. Well, I thought it was a better death than my other one, my real one. The one where you just went, I crawled to the baby.
Starting point is 01:04:52 Crawled to the baby and then you just kind of went. Because that looked like you passed out. It didn't look like you died. Yeah, yeah. That's a thing, right? So you really. Well, this was a big success, your death here. And by the way, Garrett, so she dies and then everybody's safe.
Starting point is 01:05:06 And then we hear, we hear Harry say to Janeway, who's in engineering. Yeah. Or I think maybe even we hear it in the cargo bay. Harry goes, hey, I've got the transporters back online. Like, you've been, I'm like, my first of that is like, dude, we took care of this. Thanks for the help a little late. Hey, I was working the entire time, frantically, because I was worried about you. Did you see the worry down there?
Starting point is 01:05:32 Did you see the worry on my face? There was definitely worry. It was a little late, okay? She was about to kill us. Hey, I don't know that that's going on. All I know is I'm doing my job and I know that you're going to die and I'm trying to save your life. Okay. Well, thanks for the help a little late.
Starting point is 01:05:47 we're fine a little bit like a tortoise yes yes exactly oh my god it was very very sweet but a little late okay so the very last scene seska's dead and i love this last scene in the mess hall because all of us are sitting around a table at like a family dinner um sharing our character's thoughts and feelings and our relationships i just love that scene i was like why didn't we do this family dinner more often. Why didn't, you know, whether it's at the end of an episode or the middle of an episode or the beginning, I don't know, it just feels like Janeway would have made a regular kind of group hangout. Like that would have been a harmless, we wouldn't have all almost died from CESCA with her trying to, you know, get the game finished. Yeah. She could have just invited us
Starting point is 01:06:41 to dinner and that would have built a nice community and we wouldn't have been at risk with all the, all the game playing so very true i like the dinner that's all i'm going to say i wish you have to you have to tear the kids away from the games yes exactly yeah janeway should know that like put the game video games down the holodeck games down and come have a nice dinner with the family yeah here's my theme for uh this episode star trek writers don't like getting notes from the actor that's my thing wow I think this was a big shot at writers getting notes from anybody
Starting point is 01:07:23 and I know Ken Biller spun it in a nice way of oh this is the creative process it was fun and all but I think that's what that was my big takeaway was like oh yeah you guys really don't like getting notes from actors or other creative people that's my theme all right this is my lesson My lesson, my lesson from this episode is that the writers should never have killed off SESCA because of how good she is as a recurring character.
Starting point is 01:07:53 She should have stayed with us for the entire run of this series because you're, you know, Seska has been one of the fan favorites from day one. People love SESCA and just the way you played SESCA was so spot on that killing you off is so stupid. It's a good lesson. Okay. Good lesson. Okay. Martha, any thoughts? My lesson was you really need to learn and use the delete button. Which is what Duvok should have done to his damn, his damn, instructional thing.
Starting point is 01:08:29 But you learn that. No, he sure did. He's really getting enough trouble. And to piggyback on your idea, here's another lesson I learned, Athena, is that, um, When you put something on your computer, you never know who's going to look at it. So be careful. That's a good love. Tuvok put this, he thought it was a secret program, and it got looked at.
Starting point is 01:08:55 And Cesska got it encrypted, not him. That's right. That is right. That is right. All right, well, that was fun. That was a wonderful, yeah, thank you again to Martha Hackett for joining us for our recap and discussion of Worst Case Sonara. Thank you, Martha. Thank you.
Starting point is 01:09:11 You're welcome. It's always fun to see you guys. Yeah. Guys, join us next week when Robbie and I will be discussing the final episode of Season 3, Scorpion, Part 1.

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