The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Ant Middleton Opens Up About His Personal Demons, Being "Cancelled" & His Spirituality

Episode Date: March 29, 2021

Ant Middleton is an adventurer, military vet, television host and author who is has become a majorly respected authority when it comes to survival and endurance techniques due to his experience within the elite and special forces. He went on to become of only a handful of those able to complete the military’s gruelling “Holy Trinity”, serving with the Paras, the Royal Marines and Special Forces (in the Special Boat Service, sister force of the SAS). He has served on military tours of Northern Ireland, Macedonia (peacekeeping), Sierra Leone and Afghanistan (in 2007 and 2008). Ant has remained grounded in a philosophy of embracing personal power and individual responsibility at all times. Ant has a very straightforward view of manhood and describes his peers as 'military alpha males'. Ant readily admits that he has been 'exposed' to so much that it's almost impossible for him to feel an adrenaline rush at this stage in his life... Most recently Ant has been caught up in a media storm after Channel 4 axed him from SAS: Who Dares Wins after five years, the broadcaster said that ant’s 'views and values we not aligned to theirs'. This is his first in-depth conversation he recorded since he was “cancelled”. Ant, Thank you for your honesty. This weeks episode entitled 'Ant Middleton Opens Up About His Personal Demons, Being "Cancelled" & His Spirituality' Follow Ant: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/antmiddleton Twitter - https://twitter.com/antmiddleton Website - https://www.antmiddleton.com Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to Amazon Music, who when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And

thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. One of the things that I say is the most courageous thing you can do, above all bravery, is this is the personal life that I really keep to myself. You know, I've spoke a lot about it today, which I've never spoken about before. Ant Middleton. Ant is an adventurer, a military vet, a television host, an author, an entrepreneur, and one that's become highly, highly respected as an authority when it comes to things like survival and endurance and leadership techniques. And due to his experiences as an elite special force member, he can talk about these things in a way that nobody, nobody else can. Ant has very, very recently been at the center of a huge media storm where he was quote-unquote cancelled with his biggest show today, SAS Who Dares Wins, being axed by Channel 4 after five years. And the

broadcaster came out and said that Ant's views and values weren't aligned to theirs. This is his first in-depth conversation that he's recorded since he was quote-unquote cancelled. I've watched countless amounts of interviews that Ant Middleton has done, but the side of Ant that you're going to hear today is one that even he admits himself that he has never fully shared before. I'm going to say it, this podcast lifted a ton of weight off my shoulders and answered maybe the most important question about life that we all must ask ourselves if we are going to be happy and if we're going to be successful and if we're going to be free. And thank you for your honesty. Without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening,

but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Ant, when I was reading your book, First Man In, there's this quote at the end of one of the chapters, and I thought it was a good place to start this conversation today because I tend to think that it's probably one of the more foundational pieces of information. Well, it might lead to one of the most foundational pieces of information to describe who you became in your life and what you've gone on to achieve. And this is what you wrote at the end of the chapter. It says, it's called making friends with your demons. Having dark forces living within us is part of being human they're the result of inevitable damage of life each one of us has a choice make these demons work for us or turn them loose against us and slightly linked to that in the same on the same page you wrote most of most of us have

horror stories we can tell you about from our childhoods it's not the horror that defines you it's how well you fought it what did that mean i think that's just a generic message to everyone to say that it's okay to have you know bad thoughts it's okay to have these demons inside you they exist in all of us you know but the important message is to exercise them because the moment you lock them away the moment you lock these thoughts away the moment you lock these demons away the moment you lock any negativity away all it's going to do is take over like a mold. And it's going to completely engulf you. And it's going to go into control you as an individual.

And it's only because I've been there and I've done it, whether that's what I've done in combat, losing my father at a young age, losing my mother, seeing bodies blown up around me, seeing dead people around me, seeing the effect it has on families, seeing what my decision, pulling that trigger or not, has on a certain person or has on a certain family or has on a certain situation. And it's ultimately being okay with who you are that's the whole thing about it it's being acknowledging that listen we're not perfect we're human okay we have weaknesses we have insecurities we have these horrendous thoughts sometimes now you'd be a liar to say you don't sit there sometimes and you know the things that go through your head if you actually voice them, then that becomes a problem.

That's you not exercising your demons. That's them exercising you. And it's just about acknowledging that. And I acknowledge that from such a young age. I acknowledge that from a young age when my father passed away and I couldn't really understand what was going on. Can you tell me about that? Yeah, my father passed away when i was five years old and um within a few months a new man came into our life um my stepfather um and then within two years we up moved to france so we lived in portsmouth we up the move completely to france

a new situation a new environment a new man in our life. And I can just remember thinking, I remember going into a bush in the fields where we lived in France after a couple of months we were there and I sat in this bush and the magnitude of the situation was so overwhelming. I can just remember looking at the road and thinking to myself, what am I doing here? Why am I here? What's the purpose? I couldn't grasp anything at that young age. And it was during that moment when I let everything go. And I can just remember thinking to myself, don't try and understand what's going on. Don't try and understand who

this man is and where he's come from. Don't try and understand what's going on don't under try and understand who this man is and where he's come from don't try and understand why you're in a different school speaking a different language because you can't don't try and understand all of a sudden you're living in caravans we moved we were living in a couple of caravans we were a big big family um from houses um and i can just remember dropping everything and thinking to myself, understand what you can understand. And at that young age, what I could understand was what I was feeling. I could understand myself. So when I look back on the death of my father, and as I flip everything into a positive, even though years and years and years down the line,

I'd done this, the death of my father actually made me self-reflect from the age of six or seven. So I've been self-reflecting, you know, understanding my emotions, understanding how I feel, understanding my demons, understanding, you know, the good parts of me, the bad parts of me, the weak parts of me, the strong parts of me, the positive side of me, the negative side of me. And I've been really breaking it down from such a young age. And that's given me an advantage in life. I generally believe that that's given me my sort of bulletproof mindset on how to tackle anyone or any situation today. So even though it was a traumatic part of my life and it affected me all the way up to my mid-20s in a bad way where I'd go out

and try and understand who my father was, try and understand, you know, I never went to his funeral. I never went to his grave. You know, my parents, I say my parents, my stepdad, because he came in my life so young i called him my dad um they never told me where he was buried he was just completely cut out of our life um because of the situation beforehand you know for him to come into our lives a couple of

months after it was pretty obvious that my mum was obviously having an affair or there's something going on and again i'm not judging anyone or the situation, but, you know, so when he came into our life, it was like, right, you call him dad. My name changed from Aaron to Middleton. Not a lot of people know that. Really? Yeah. And this whole new life was just forced upon me, forced upon me.

So I was either forced to act or forced not to act you know sitting in that bush me forcing not to act was probably jumping in the road you know thinking right listen enough is enough did that cross your mind it was a big road it was a big road and it never got to that stage where i thought right right, I'm going to take my life. But it was like, you know, there's an easy option out of here. Do you know what I mean? It's like there is an easy option out of here. But it never crossed my mind to do it.

But I can just remember thinking of that road, thinking the cars move faster. Do you know what I mean? If you wanted to, it's more like if you wanted to. Yeah, so it crosses your mind. Yeah, it crosses your mind yeah it crosses your mind but it doesn't register yeah if that makes sense yeah and it's only you know throughout these few years when you start to reflect back on on who you are and what you've been through you start to go

bloody hell i'm actually maybe i was thinking like that at an age so um but then again you know who i am i you know i'm honest with myself i'm honest with my demons i'm honest with with with who i am and ultimately um i'm honest with um with knowing that we're not perfect you know a lot of people and you've described it there they never make they never admit their demons to themselves and what ends up happening is those demons run the show but from the back room absolutely and you know i guess you see that a lot with people that have come back from war as well because they don't get the uh the support they need but i see it during war yeah i see people level-headed

intelligent soldiers lose their head on the battlefield come running past you doing things that you think wow where the hell did that come from you look into their eyes and there's fucking nothing there nothing there and then boom they flip out and you're like do you realize what you've just done like right you know it's you know those demons are fucking strong they're there how do you address them you have to exercise them and you know the way i exercise my demons is by getting like-minded similar people in the same room in a safe environment and i might drink myself into a bolivian till three four in the morning, you know, chatting about what we've done, chatting about old times,

chatting about who we are. And then boom, I'm done for six months. You know, I've released those demons. When you, you know, intoxicate yourself of alcohol, you know, it allows you to talk. And I'm not saying go out there and do that, but that's just my way

of coming from a drinking culture, i.e. the military, the military drinking and a fighting culture that's the way that we deal with things and for now now it might be a blowout where you know i'll go out and you know i'll have a nice meal and you know we'll have a few glasses of wine you know we'll be in a private room and we'll we'll shoot the shit and you know just talk about whatever we need to talk about, whatever's on your mind. But also physically, I exercise my demons physically. You know, I put myself in horrendous situations in order to fight against myself. Everest is a prime example of that.

I was going to say, yeah. You know, I didn't have to go up during the storms. You know, if I was the normal, sensible person, I would have went up after that storm went. So just for context, you decided to climb Mount Everest with a buddy of yours at probably the worst possible time, and you got into a little bit of a predicament up there. Yeah, exactly that, to say the least, yeah.

But it's one of those where I didn't just want to walk up on a nice sunny day, you know, and gain nothing from that experience why though like why are you voluntarily putting yourself through chaos and what anyone else would perceive to be agony why are you choosing that that's me exercising my demons really that's me you know pushing myself that limit. That's me having tasted that drug of living on that line of life and death. And a lot of people think that drug's adrenaline, but it's not. I don't feel pumped. I don't feel, I feel ultimate peace. So people find this bizarre.

But when I walk that line of life and death, which I've done multiple times, it's a pure feeling of euphoria. It's not what you think where you feel pumped in your your eyes are red and you've got this aggression going through you and you have to get through this moment. It's like life is so uncomplicated, Steve, so uncomplicated. You're either going to live or you're going to die. All the bullshit, all the complications of life that is implemented on you, whether that's through government, whether that's through work, whether that's through family, all of that goes. And you are left with the most purest form of life.

And it's so uncomplicated that it's so euphoric. It's so uncomplicated that it's so euphoric it's so peaceful and when you hear of world war one and world war two poets that are writing poems in trenches people are like how the hell are they writing poems in trenches i understand that feeling because life is so uncomplicated it's so pure it's so peaceful that they're writing with no stresses, no complications, no bullshit. It's just it's coming from the purest form of life of I'm either going to live or I'm going to die. And it's that feeling that I chase. I chase that feeling. Well, I want that moment of peace, pure and utter peace for 10, 15 minutes. That drug I chase and that's crossing those boundaries, crossing those lines, crossing any limitations to the edge of life. You take that step, you're gone.

You go over that edge, you know, you're going to feel it. You're going to feel alive. You're going to feel everything that you need out of life, but for me, that's exercising my demons. So whether I do it psychologically, whether I'm putting myself in situations that I'm saying stuff that I believe in, that I value that, that as a message and it's being contradicted or whether I'm pushing myself to a physical limit or put myself in a physical situation, which is uncomprehendable to the everyday man or woman. But it's because I've tasted it. I've had the misfortune. I've had the burden of tasting that drug.

And will it be the end of me? I can't say that for sure. i can't say that it won't i can't say that you know i've never put myself in these situations again because i find myself constantly doing it but for me that is exercising my demons and everyone's demons are different everyone's situation is different everyone's emotions are different everyone's dna is different but that's me exercising my demons what what are the other if any moments from your early years that went into shaping the man you became was there anything else because i i hear you in your books and in your writing and your interviews continue to cite that that that sort of trauma with your father and your stepfather then coming in and and being the way that he was but there was was there

anything up leading until you know your 20s that you cite as being pivotal and who you became yeah when i joined the british military i joined the army at the age of 16 i'm just going on to 17 and i came from a background of french culture you know i'd go out and drink coffee when i was 14 play bowling when i was 15 you know and all of a sudden i get thrown into a male dominant organization um the culture drinking fighting you fit in or you fuck off it's as simple as that so what do you do you try and fit in but when you try and put a a round peg into a square hole you know you're gonna get stuck and you either stay stuck okay you go and you go around pleasing everyone else or you pull yourself out of that situation and that's ultimately what i've

done with the army i spent four years in the army then left because of that situation it wasn't me i wasn't this aggressive young lad that loved drinking i'd never used to drink i was always polite always respectful. I'd walk past someone, I'd tip my hat. You know, in France, you say, bonjour, and you know, you just have a little chat. You do that in England. When I was 16, 17, walking past someone,

nodding at him, they're like, what the fuck are you looking at? No, and it used to shock me. And I used to think, when he's saying hi, mate, what, you know. And that was a pivotal four years in my life where I thought to myself, can I ever fit in to this UK culture? Or I can pull myself out of it.

And for the first four years, I found myself fitting in, and I found myself being good at drinking. I found myself being good at fighting. I found myself being good at being a fucking dickhead, you know, because that's what I needed to be to fit in. So, again, those were demons that I discovered along the way that I found that I was good at. So would I let anyone take the piss out of me anymore?

You bet. No, because you're going to get a good hiding. You know, would I go out and drink and fit in? Yeah, of course I would. You know, one of the lads. I want to fit in. Do you know would i would i go out and and drink and fit in yeah of course of course i would you know it's yeah one of the lads i want to fit in i mean i'm so i'm so far detached from all of that but if i'm this young polite respectful sort of multicultural individual then that's gonna be a more of a hindrance moving forward in in what i need to do especially in the military then it is uh a benefit so you find yourself turning into this person i can just remember i was about 21 and i went to macedonia and i worked with the french foreign legion out there

because i speak fluent french and i worked with the the French Foreign Legion a bit. And I saw how they were. They're very, very mature, very sort of, you know, going back to that French culture. You know, they're family orientated, very. I thought to myself, wow, this is this is who I am. And when I got back off that tour, I can just remember going to the squadron bar. I was in 9th Parachute Squadron Royal Engineers going to the squadron bar. We'd just done a six month tour. I'm going to the squadron bar i was in nine parachute squadron world engineers going to the squadron bar we just done a six month tour i'm going to the squadron bar and i remember walking in there i remember seeing someone um staff sergeant probably about 35 36 you know i'm a young 2021 year old

drinking from a a boot for an old desert boot right and he's drinking piss being drinking piss from a boot and i can just remember looking at him thinking if i continue the way that i'm going that's going to be me in 15 years time and it scared the hell out of me i can remember just thinking i've got to get the hell out of it i walked out of that bar and the next day I put my notice in. I was like that. This is not who I am. This is not, you know, I've gained more demons from this four years than I have any friends, any benefits from it. And that was a pivotal point. That was a pivotal point in my life where I thought to myself, wow, you know, I can either go, I can either change in such a way and just be stuck in this square hole where I can pull myself out,

rebuild on the foundations that I have of knowing that I'm a good person. And you, and from there you handed in your notice and what happened next from there i handed in my notice and and i left and um i found that in civvy street i was acting the person that i never wanted to be in the military right but i'd found that that had followed me that that had taken charge of me you mean be specific those demons that um those demons that had sort of identified themselves within that four years were running the show. So when I got out, I joined the Metropolitan Police and I was acting like a proper squaddy,

going out drinking every night, cheating on my exams, drink driving. I got all the way through training. A couple of weeks to go, passed all the tests, I got caught drink driving. kicked out the um kicked out the met um out of the training um in hendon and but it didn't bother me i was like yeah you know once a soldier always a soldier and i was living in the past and being someone who completely wasn't me, but who had control of me. And then getting into the street life. Now I've got into the street life where, you know,

fighting, not gangs, not gangs, but that social circle where, you know, you have to uphold a reputation where you, and the one thing that I'll, you know, well, I'll say the one thing, but the thing that I was good at that fitted me is I was a good scrapper. I knew, I know how to scrap, I know how to drink, I know how to fight. But you find yourself reverting back to the person who you never wanted to be. And I suppose that was the defense mechanism. I knew that that worked in the UK. I'd never trialed and tested anything else as soon as I came over to the UK straight into the military again now I spent 10-12 years in France before that then boom

straight over into the British culture and I thought that's how you acted I never knew what City Street was about because I was never in it so it took me a good couple of years again to realise. What saved you?

What pulled you out of this bit? There's one moment that saved me. I refused to sign on. I refused to take any help from the government. Same. And I can remember my auntie, I was living with my auntie at the time. She said,

you've got, you know, you've got no money. What are you going to do? I said, well, I'm going to go down to the job center. She said,

why don't you just sign on until you find a job? I'm like, no. I was proud. I was like, no, I've never taken a penny off the government. I thought,

no, I'm going to go to the job center. I remember walking into the job center, walking up the stairs, walking into the job centre. And I had my red book. And the red book, when you leave the military, it's got all your qualifications, military qualifications, all your credentials.

And I walked into the job centre and the guy obviously recognised the books. They probably have hundreds of people going there, you know, a year. And he said, oh, mate, you're ex-military, aren't you? I was like, yeah. He said, come to the desk. He sat down with me and he opened up my book and he started reading my book

and he looked up at me and he said why did you leave the military and before i could answer i was going to say something back and he said i have hundreds of these come across my desk and he said this is one of the best reports i've ever read he said so my advice to you as he slammed the book shot he went he went go back into that space and i can remember just sitting there um i was 22 sitting down and thinking right okay he's gonna offer me a job now and he just handed me the book and called over the next person and i was just like so i'm picking up the book to myself guys just told me i've got you know but obviously there's there's all military qualifications there's nothing for me out there apart from to empty bins or whatever it may be

um and i remember taking the book and as i walked down the steps of the job center i sat down halfway down on the steps and i had a train ticket in my pocket and probably about a couple of quid loose change. That was my life. This was at the age of 22, 23 maybe. And I can just remember thinking to myself, right, why the hell are you sat, skin, nothing in your life life apart from the clothes that you're wearing and what's in your pockets, jobless. And then a moment of clarity just hit me. It's almost as if I had an out-of-body experience

and I was looking back at the boy sitting on the step and I can just remember thinking to myself, all right, I'll tell you why. It's because you're pretending to be someone else. You're lying to yourself, therefore you're living a lie. You think you're better than everyone else. You've got this reputation that you want to uphold. That's not you.

You're just a shadow of who you really are. You're not, you know, who the hell do you think you are? Because the person that I'm looking at, you know, almost looking in the mirror, the person that I'm looking at is exactly where he should be, sat on a fucking step, jobless with nothing. Because this isn't you. And if you want to live in the shadow,

if you want to stay stuck in that hole, in that square hole, then keep lying to yourself and keep living a lie. And that moment, I'll always go back to that moment. Whenever I get a bit above myself or a bit too big for my boots, I always go back to that moment where I ripped myself apart

because it freed me as an individual and i promise you this and it's not cliche this isn't some kind of fucking bullshit story that i'm telling you it freed me as an individual because i can remember standing up on them steps feeling like a new man because i just identified who i was this isn't you get that out your life get that out your life get that of your life be you and I had those foundations to fall back on because I knew who I was ultimately but it was just covered and and yeah ego covered with so much bullshit covered with so much complications that I'd implemented on myself and when I got rid of it all I was like that you know what I was good at the military I got best recruit best PT

when I was in the army do you know what I'm going to do I love that lifestyle but it's just around the wrong people I was in the wrong regiment you know

I'm going to rejoin the military but I'm going to be a team player I'm going to be myself I'm going to be this respectful gentleman

hard worker that I know that I am do you know what I mean I'm not going to go out boozing I'm not going to go out fighting I'm not going to try and fit in you know if they don't accept me know that I am. Do you know what I mean? I'm not going to go out boozing. I'm not going to go out fighting. I'm not going to try and fit in. You know, if they don't accept me for who I am,

then so be it. The military obviously isn't for me. And I joined the Royal Marines. I went straight down the careers office, straight down the careers office and joined the Royal Marines. And within a couple of months, because of my previous military history,

I got in very quick and within a couple of months i found myself going through all marine training and when i passed out of all marine training i got um awarded with best recruit which is the king's badge and i can just remember thinking to myself right and you've been here before you know you got best recruit best pt you know you rested on your laurels went to your unit didn't really fit in you're in the same position now now you can either use this as a positive and push forward and and you know go on to achieve great things or you can try and fit in booze fight be a be a camp hero you know pub soldier and just be back to square one where you was five six seven years ago there's something and i want to carry on from that story but just going back to that i find it super fascinating

that you're sat on those stairs and at a moment when your ego kind of dissolves because of the circumstances you find yourself in um you're actually able then to go and pursue your true self and i find you know i had someone sat in this chair previously and he's the biggest investor in the world in psychedelics and one of the things that he talks about with psychedelics is it what it does is it strips back the bullshit your ego the the identity you've been living to please society and what's left is like who you actually are and it's and it's so funny that so many of the guests i speak to and so many of the psychologists i've spoken to talk about in order to like find your happiness and pursue your true self you have to get rid of that bullshit and what what I'm what I was hearing when you were saying that is you know

you'd you'd created this reputation and identity for yourself which actually was leading you astray but it was helping you survive in those circles and and this tough tough decision to say do you know I'm gonna break out that circle leave that identity behind throw myself into an uncertain moment and go in pursuit of like who i actually am and everybody faces that in their life you know as a kid and growing up in devon in a school of 1500 white kids pretending that i liked indie music and pretending i was to fit in and survive survival yeah and i i left the city because i deep down in my heart, I didn't resonate with anybody,

but I was in that small town city surrounded by 1500 white kids that liked the kooks. That's my army career. That was my army career. Yeah. And then 18, I was like, I'm out of here, I'm going to go be Steve.

Moved to Manchester, you know, and I dropped out and I started to, and I think everybody in their life, regardless of what walk of life, you face that decision and either you've realized that you're living an identity or a life untrue to yourself,

and you've gone on the journey to go find yourself, or right now, as you're listening to this, you are, and you'll know it. Because the words that you've described there will ring true. I completely understand that. And that makes complete sense to me. And one of the things that I say

is the most courageous thing you can do above all bravery is to be honest with yourself why is that so hard these days? one of the things that I say is the most courageous thing you can do above all bravery is to be honest with yourself why is that

so hard these days you know people say to me and you know what's the bravest thing you've ever done and i always talk about the story of the job center steps because that took courage that took balls that that's bravery right there now i've been in rooms where bullets are flying over my head. I've kicked doors down and, you know, I've taken, I've saved life. It's like, that's not being brave. That's just me being extremely good at my job and loving what I do. You know, there's nothing to do with bravery. You know, bravery is almost forced upon you. But when you decide to step into the arena, when you decide to step into that and go, right, I'm going to face this and put that mirror on yourself, ultimately facing yourself, that is the hardest but most liberating thing

I've ever done. And people shy away from that. And they live in the void. They live this life where they just live in the void. I call it, I say you're on autopilot because you're lying to yourself and it's pretty simple. Therefore, you're going to live a lie i don't care it's i'm not the archbishop of canterbury you know i'm like i'm not a rocket scientist it's just simple science you know if you lie to yourself guess what you're going to live a lie um but standing in a mirror standing in a mirror and ripping yourself apart does take away all the bullshit and all the complications and it frees you as an individual but it's you have to do it on a regular basis you can't just go i've done it once so here we go i found myself this is who i am because

hopefully you're constantly changing you're constantly evolving you're constantly um adapting your mindset now that's what evolution is about you know the the world is designed to to you know is is evolutionizes and we are designed to do exactly the same and the moment that you you're not honest with yourself it's game over for you it's like it's like you just want to be just that person you know a lot of people say's like, you just want to be just that person. You know, a lot of people say to me, and you know,

I remember, remember me from the military. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. They go, you've changed a lot. You've changed.

I'm like that. I haven't seen you for 10 years. I hope I've changed. And I say to him, you haven't. That's why you're still just that guy. That's why I'm at Middleton. And you're still just that guy is because of course I've changed

I like to think in another 10 years time when you see me that I've changed again because if I haven't I'm doing something wrong and that doing something wrong is not being honest with myself and it all goes back to you as an individual no one can do that for you no one can do that for you

and I say to everyone everything starts with you and it's so true if you don't want to change, everything starts with you. And it's so true. If you don't want to change, then nothing will change around you. Now, if you don't want to be honest with yourself, well, guess what? You're lying to yourself. It's the complete opposite. Therefore, you're living a lie.

It's like you have to do this on a weekly or a monthly basis. Anytime an obstacle was thrown in front of you you can fall back on right to be honest with yourself be honest with who you are be honest with with with you you know with how you tackle things and and and don't lie to yourself the cost of being yourself and being honest with yourself is seemingly increasing in this day and age but you know i find it i think that's a really really valid point one that i i hadn't i don think expressed properly, which is you had that reflective moment when you sat on those stairs, where you say,

fuck it, we're going to start being honest with ourselves. But then, especially as you get more successful, you know, in your media career and everything else, the forces at play trying to get you to not be honest with yourself, get greater and greater.

And this is this crazy sort of, I don't know, paradox or whatever we see in society at the moment, which is you being honest with yourself is the reason you're sat here. It's the reason you're at Middleton. Yeah. But, and that's what's made you explode, right? But then the higher you get, it's like, I don't know, you know, the resistance for you not to be yourself becomes greater because now you've got, now you're more of a target, right?

Yeah. Hard fucking, hard fucking life to live do you know what i've been witness of it you know the council culture the um don't say that and because you will lose this book deal you will lose that media career you will lose that production i'm witness of it right now. You know, I hear it probably on a weekly basis. But then that's that square peg round hole. It's like, no, I don't, you know, it's every time I think about that. And I always have two principles with everything that I do is don't go out to offend. So I don't say things to offend people. Therefore they choose to be offended.

I don't say things to offend people. I just say things. What I think is right was what served me. I'm good in my experiences and my career and my mindset. And the second thing is, you know, don't, don't do things maliciously.

So first of all, don't do things maliciously. So first of all, don't go out, it's verbal. And also actions. Don't do things maliciously because then ultimately, yeah, you're going to have a backlash. You're going to have a reaction to what you've done. So that's exactly what I do. I don't go out to offend, but I go out to tell the truth.

But I also go out to seek the truth, you know, and i go out to seeking the truth again everything starts with you and with who i am it's dangerous and it's it's it's dangerous social media era it's dangerous it is dangerous but hopefully you get past that that stage of people realizing that actually this is and he's not been any different. He's not, you know, voiced anything different. He's not tried to fit into a media agenda. He's not tried to try to blag anyone. He's not being fake. This is who Ant Middleton is.

And he will always be like that. Regardless of what we write. Yeah, regardless. But then there's that platform of not reaching that level quite yet. And then everything descending upon you um and i and unfortunately there's a lot of people out there that are scared to say what they truly feel are scared to voice their opinions are scared to you know voice their values because ultimately it takes food off the table it's a career stopper when your career stops guess what suffers after that

your family and then when that when that suffers guess what there's not much out there for you you have to rebuild again well all those 10 15 20 years career that you've you've built all for that one moment is it worth it no so what do you do keep quiet what do you do don't do anything just say what they want you to say and do what they want you to do that doesn't fucking rub with me that's a sore point with me you know you try and you try and make me someone that i'm that i'm not like i've been made someone then i'm that i'm not you're probably going to get even you're going to get the worst out of me even more so because everything comes back around to who you truly are they're trying to control you yeah they're

trying it's a controlling measure and it's like listen i've i've let people control my life i've let situations control my life and it's i've ended up psychologically not physically psychologically on that brink of questioning who the fuck who the? Who am I? That's what I question. And the moment I start questioning who am I, then I know that project isn't for me. I know that that sponsor isn't for me. I know that that TV channel or that TV production isn't for me. Because the moment that comes into question and it's like you don't probably don't get who i am you probably don't understand who i am you probably haven't done your homework with who i am do i fit into your agenda and it's like if you don't fit into one

agenda you get bounced boom straight across to the opposite side right it's like listen i don't belong on that side it's just because i don't believe in in this this side it doesn't mean i belong on that side yeah i'm i belong in the middle now people say you on the left you're on the right i'm like i'm not on the left or right i'm in the middle i'm in the middle but there is no middle because the moment that you go you say slightly something that goes against this agenda then again you just get bounced straight to the other side the right won't recognize you the left won't recognize you so there's who are your enemy of both yeah but it's it's and it's a dangerous place to live in this is it's it's it it's it's a sad state of affairs real sad sad um sad state of affairs and you know just because your values and your views are different doesn't mean my message isn't isn't And, you know, just because your values

and your views are different doesn't mean my message isn't the same. You know, my message, everything that I do is about positivity, is about mindset, is about bringing people together. You look at SAS Who Dares Wins, what does it do? It makes people realize what they're capable of, makes them find themselves.

It brings people together. It brings families together. You know, mutiny, teamwork brings people together. It brings families together. Mutiny, teamwork brings people together. Escape, straight talking, being honest and open. And it makes you feel good. It brings you together. It unites people because they can be open and honest with themselves. And therefore they know what they're capable of. Self-belief starts to kick in when they feel good about it's bringing people together right and that is you'd be inhumane really to to not think like that to not want to help people out to not want to so the message is is is always the same but it's this bit in the middle right that you either get

pushed to one side you can't have this sort of in the middle opinion of well actually my values are the same as yours you know i'm all about Yeah. Okay. So why are you saying my values don't fit with yours? Cause I want my positive change. Look at my message for the last five, six years, since I've been in the media, it's positive change, unity. Look at what I do. Everything I do, whether it's my books, my tours, my TV programs, everything is about bringing people together, bringing the best out of people. So just because this in between bit, I, my views are different and mine are probably truthful, which people don't want to hear the truth. It's like, right,

bounce off to one side and then, and then you start to get canceled. But what's the answer though? Like, so I, you know, I hear we've had Pierce Morgan talk a lot about this as well. And other people talk about how, how you know if you don't perfectly fit the the views or the perfect hashtag of the of the left or whatever then um you're basically being cancelled in culture and i i genuinely this is a fucking probably the most genuine question i've ever asked on this podcast because it's one that i'm thinking about all the time is i also see this happening my views don't always fit the left or the right and sometimes sometimes like in the Black Lives Matter moment, I posted on my Instagram saying,

it was actually my best performing post of all time. I said, because there was this whole narrative around like silence is violence. And if you're not saying anything, then you're racist. I did a post saying like, that's obviously bullshit. As I said, it's unpopular black opinion. If someone doesn't post a black square on their Instagram, doesn't make them a racist,

people process things in completely different in fact the most unnatural reaction to trauma is to take to social media so like and that absolutely it was it was it didn't fit the like silence is violence narrative and and my ability and i like of course that's fucking true like do you know what i mean it doesn't it doesn't fit i understand right but it's no one not one individual in the millions and millions of views that that post did could tell me there was one It doesn't fit, I understand, right? But it's no one, not one individual in the millions and millions of views that that post did could tell me there was one slide in that nine that they disagreed with.

But it was the feeling that I wasn't wearing the football kit of the left that made some people go, you're an awful person, Steve. And then I'd go, why? They'd go. Yeah, exactly. You see their minds ticking and ticking you're like tell me tell me what's wrong with the post they go oh you know what's right yeah and and i i think well i'm i know i'm not going to change so when i look into my future i go at

some point i'm going to get cancelled because my brand is building i've got some stuff coming up on in the media and i'm thinking i know i'm not going to change so what's the answer here like I'm always gonna and I know that it's getting more what is the answer I came so this is why you're here yeah I know it's like it's like what the answer is to be true to who you are yeah and just take the and take and it's like it's you know that's the one thing I've always fall back on is just knowing you know if, if you're an idiot, you know, if you're irritating people, you know, if you're not a good person. And then ultimately, you know, you're going to get what's coming to you and you probably deserve it. But I know that I'm a good person. I know my foundations.

I'm polite. I'm respectful. You know, I don't go out to offend, ever go out to offend. I hate confrontation because of the way that I know that I can deal with confrontation. It frightens me to get into that situation because I know what I'm capable of. Okay. So I don't ever, I'm over polite. I'm over respectful because I think people should be treated like that.

Now I like to be treated like that. I wasn't treated like that when I started off in my army career and I know what it feels like. Okay. And I never would never want anyone to experience that. So I'm over polite and I'm over respectful. And I've always thought back on that. I always look at myself in the mirror and I go, and you're, you, I know I'm a good person and that are the foundations that I've built. That's my foundations. That's who I am. Okay. So you can knock my bricks down. I but guess what i will keep building and building and building and you can knock it even if you knock them down to the foundations i can fall back

on being true to myself and there's no more liberating steve liberating feeling than that of being true to who you are going do you know what i'm not going to fit into that agenda i'm not going to fit into that box i'm not going to squeeze myself in there to make myself feel uncomfortable for your agenda because that's not who I am. Would you rather lose it all? Yeah, 100% because I've got my foundations. I've got my foundations. I will always build, Steve. Always build. And this part of the building is so high now that can you cancel me crack on because i guarantee you i just keep building this side this side this side this side because the people that know me know who i am and someone said this to me with all the stuff that's been going on lately

um you know i've had some sponsors that have cancelled i've had some tv programs that i can't crack on but the people that are by my side the sponsors and the channels and the production companies that are by my side that have worked for me saying and we have the privilege of knowing you and that rung a chord to me though I'm like they have the privilege of knowing me I think to myself wow you've got the privilege of knowing I've got the privilege of knowing myself because I know who I am. And I'm glad, I'm glad I gave you that privilege. And it's not being big headed. I'm glad I gave you that privilege of knowing me

because you know that this is just a storm of words. You know that this is just media hype. You know, this is just fake news. You know, this isn't real. You know, yeah, I've maybe got a little bit of a fiery side to me, but you know, you're getting that with me. You know, I'm rough around the edges. So yeah. And I'm happy to, you know, to, to, to cut a few

of the edges, but those edges are still going to be there. Do you know what I mean? So when they said that to me and it's something that will stick with me forever. And it's from a very, very good sponsor, you know, um, very, um, it's to do with my books and i can just and i remember sitting back and just taking that breath and going keep doing what you're doing and you're doing the right thing and then this last week you know so many doors have opened production companies calling me channels calling me um you know and you hear about it you hear about oh you know you get cancelled then that's your career done and but then you hear about, oh, you know, you get cancelled, then that's your career done. And but then you've got your Piers Morgans, you've got your

your Jeremy Clarkson's and now you've got your Aunt Middleton's. Okay. And it just goes to show that I'm doing the right thing. And that actually, yeah, I'm not going to fit. I'm not going to be comfortable with, with everyone. And I'm not going to be their cup of tea. Well, that's fine because guess what? I don't want to work with you. If I get questioned one little bit about who I am, like I said before, if I get questioned one little bit about who I am by any brands, any sponsors, any channels, then I will not work with them.

I will say, listen, thank you very much. It's obviously not the right match um you go on and do your thing and i'll go on and do my thing because i will always go on and do my thing and that building can completely drop to the foundations but when you're honest with yourself and you know who you are those foundations are solid you will always have something to build from but when you're not honest with yourself and everything comes crumbling down and you have no those foundations are solid. You will always have something to build from. But when you're not honest with yourself and everything comes crumbling down and you have no foundations to fall on, you're fucked. That's when you're in trouble. That's when you start to go, well, I won't say that. I won't act like this. I won't do this. And I won't do that.

And that's when you become someone else. That's when you become fake to who you are. And guess what? Desperate times then. You're like a wounded you are and guess what desperate times then you're like a wounded animal and guess what you're probably going to be right at the back of the pack for the rest of your life the psychological impact of living a life that isn't true to yourself and i mean this is why people have these like midlife crises when they've even in like the professional world where they've you know their mum and dad have told them to go and be a, whatever, a banker or a lawyer. They don't want to be,

they want to be a fucking dancer or whatever. And then they get midlife crises. And you look at throughout psychology, I talk about this a little bit in my book. You know, if you look at certain communities like the LGBTQ community, their suicide rates are so high amongst those groups because a lot of them have been oppressed in a way where they can't live their true life. can't be their identity so they've had

to live a lie that's live a fake life and then you see suicide rates go up because that is a form of torture and this is what I asked you the question about you know would you rather lose it all one would one would actually maybe even if I question myself say well what are you losing yeah if you're losing TV shows and you're losing things that aren't true to yourself, is it a loss? No, it's not a loss because

you will always find something that fits you. Do you know what I mean? If you have the passion and the drive and the ambition and the positivity of knowing

who you are, then ultimately the world is your oyster. It's like, you know, people have this impression of me that i'm this hard-faced drill sergeant non-acceptant person i am the complete opposite go and be the fuck you want to be that's my message if that's what you then don't let anyone

force you into saying anything doing anything or being anyone else. Be yourself. But this is a side that people don't see of you. But this is my personal side, Steve. People see what they want to see. The media will write what they want to write. They will make you out to be who they want you to be. But you can't put all of that into a hashtag. You've got to characterize yourself in 10 letters.

And this is the problem with issues that are complex and nuanced and there's different layers. And if it doesn't fit into a hashtag, then, and this is the football team analogy as well. I want to talk about going back to your, you know, when you started in the military. One thing I find really interesting is the guy that was running around drinking, boozing, getting in trouble. For him then to go into the military and pass with flying colours is like a massive contradiction in my mind. I'm like, one appears to be a guy that's kind of out of control.

The other one, and seemingly lacking the appreciation of authority. And then the other guy is one that's able to do what he's told and follow orders. And how did you achieve such high- That's what they want want that's what they need they need the animal on the battlefield they need the aggression they need the violence because ultimately on the battlefield you counter

violence with extreme violence you know there's zero tolerance to violence in Sibby Street. In society nowadays, you show any form of violence, you're going to end up behind bars, been there. But in the military, you counter violence with extreme violence. You counter anger with extreme anger. And that's needed. I needed to be that person on the battlefield. I needed to cut myself off from any emotional sort of feelings, any emotional, you know, sort of disc into fucking shit storms, into firefights every

week, every couple, you know, two, three times a week. I needed to call on those demons to come to the forefront of who I was to get the job done. And then switch it. You're expected to switch it because one moment you're kicking the door down,

you know, taking out enemy combatants. The next door you're kicking the door down, you know, taking out enemy combatants. The next moment, next door, you're kicking the door down. There's women and children in there. So you live on that side or you live on that side. And then when you get the two confused, you know, I might be an Afghanistan best man. Put me on camp, you know, but you can't be doing that. And well, what, who the fuck do you want? Do you well you can't be doing that and well what who the fuck do you want do you mean you can't be doing that you can't be you know getting into fights downtown you can't

be you know getting you know i used to get into a hell of a lot of fights you know it's fucking hell ruined my military career because you know but then putting three tours of afghanistan i've done almost back to back perfect out there and he's put boom boom boom boom boom so what what animal do you want you know and it's okay to be able to flip from one to the other when when you're here but when you live on the complete opposite sides of the spectrum you're going to get confused every now and then you're going to be met with a situation in society where you're met with aggression you're met with violence and this demon takes with violence, and this demon takes over. You know, it's a moment of madness.

It's just a confusion, a confliction between the two, you know, and it's between the two people. And sometimes it goes whack. Yeah. But before you know it, that crossover is too much. They're both like trained to survive but in different environments. Completely different environments.

And sometimes those environments, you know, you're forced to act and those environments get switched. And it's literally like a flash in front of your eyes. It's like bang, bang. Shit, I used the wrong person there or used the wrong environment. And that's the world that I live in. That's the world that I lived in. That was my life. That was, you know know i used to come back from from afghanistan and you know i've got four four four four children at home i'm a fifth one from a previous relationship who's 19 but um used to come home i remember coming back from afghanistan and my daughter was born she's 13 now my daughter was born um 10 days before i left for a six-month tour in afghanistan so she was born so i didn't know her and i came back six months later and she was like nearly seven months um and then i went straight on special forces selection so for another six months so i came back after like a year really of not really being at home to a to a one one year old daughter who barely recognized me, you know,

she would push me away. She would, you know, and I'd interact and I'll be playing dolls on the, on the floor, Barbies. And my wife came in one day and I was playing with these Barbies and she thought I'd lost the plot.

She's like, she's like, you know, got these Barbies together, trying to make her laugh, trying to make her smile because Because for the last year, she's just seen this pent up war machine. And I've come back and I'm not very easy to deal with

during those transitions. I need a bit of time. What do you mean by that? You're not very easy to deal with in those transitions? Well, you come back from, you can't just take a head, even though I can do it, I can take a head off put a different head on but that transition of kicking doors down to being back with a family I need that even now when I come back off of filming when I come back I need before we actually start getting on again, you know, before I start settling back into the, into, into the family, it takes about two weeks. And again, me and my

partner are the best, most compatible partners in the world. The teamwork that we have is absolutely amazing. You know, hence why I've been with her for 16 years, been married for 14. But it still takes that two week period for me, of me breaking her, her routine of me coming in, you know, taking over everything, you know, with the kids taking, taking the kids to school,

taking, ruining her, her life that she's built. I come in like a storm. Yeah. And it takes two weeks before that storm normally calms down. And we go, all right,

you know, like an arguing to this, but you know, just disagreements, just control issues can, you know again not arguing to this but you know just disagreements just control issues can you know it's it's like two worlds colliding right and then after the two weeks everything settles i'm away again i might be on tour i might be like i'm in australia for two months now it's like so it's that constant communication or that constant you know crossing over of of worlds that you need to really sort of mould together.

And as my life is getting more and more and I'm not in these high octane situations, I'm not in these life or death situations. It's becoming easier and easier. You talk, you know, I had actually a military commando sat in the seat as well who talked about his experiences. And when he came back from war he was talking to me about the ptsd he suffered and um just being around the house and you know seeing the tin can stacked on the shelf at home and and like you know barking at his wife because they weren't straight and things like that and feeling that you know feeling some of the disciplines of war coming home with him you i've seen you talk on this topic so so I know that, you know, you've handled that in a different way.

But what are some of the things that have come back with you from war that you don't like or that you think aren't helping you in your personal life? They're two different worlds. You know, you deal with dark humour, dark banter to get you through certain situations. And that dark humor and dark banter and dark way of talking is the norm to you because you live and breathe that. And sometimes that comes out, you know, and only when I'm doing a military style show, you know, you come out and you might say something, which is for me, probably a throwaway comment

or a bit of banter that you realize there's a hundred crew members listening. And there's nothing, you know, it just might be, I might say something about someone or I might, it's never direct, you know, it's always an indirect conversation that we have. It's that military banter that I fucking hate. Sometimes I hear myself talking like a military man and I hate it. I might say military words, hoofing, honking, waz, you know, there's loads of them out there. And I think to myself, why are you talking like that? But it's just come it just comes out because i might find myself in in a high octane situation in a stressful situation in a in an aggressive situation in a violent situation which which i revert back to what i

know works which is this ultimately this military person but then i think fucking hell i'm not in a military environment i'm not in in in a I'm in society you know I've got you know and it's controlling that that I find really difficult um but knowing also acknowledging that it needs to be controlled you know I'm not in the military anymore you know and I always hate this once a marine always a marine you know you get people go hey once a marine always a marine I'm like I was a marine 12 years ago 10 years ago you know now i'm a i'm a media um tv presenter i'm now an extinguished author i'm now you know i like to say like you know about mindset my mindset guru i'll go around do my tours you know

i'm in a completely different space but i have to pull upon this young soldier every now and then in order to get the job done because i know that that works you know i know that if i do that but i just need to fine-tune it i need to buffer it around the edges which again is a work in progress you know i put my hands up when i go fucking hell do you know i mean yeah shouldn't have said that i shouldn't have done that you know and i'm the first one to admit it but people have to realize that listen it's it's it's a work in progress it's it's not something that i can change overnight you need to understand me you need to understand who i am um in order to to acknowledge that okay well fucking hell yeah that was a bit uncomfortable to see now some of the things that we do with the recruits you know they're like

fucking oh and like he's on on his knees and you're you're literally you know saying to him that you stay there you know if you think you're not worthy you know if you're a piece of shit blah blah blah but it's hard for people to see that and to watch that but ultimately there's always a positive motivator behind that so that's where people i think get get confused is like negativity is a great fuel it's a great source to use to get to where you need to be but only if there's a positive motivator ahead of it so you can't use negativity to get through a situation if there's not a positive motivator because all you'll do is you'll veer off in the negative lane because there's no positive motivators to aim towards it's like a plow when i say the plow is the positive motivator because all you'll do is you'll veer off in the negative lane because there's no positive motivators to aim towards it's like a plow when i say the plow is is the positive

motivator and the fuel is the negative aggression whether it's revenge whether it's you know prove people wrong whether it's you know these are all things that that that fuel you but you be sure that there's always a positive motivator so when i'm talking like that to the recruits when i'm doing it's believe it or not to get the best out of them to make them realize what they're capable of make them bring their attributes and and and um personality to the forefront so they can identify who they are and a lot of people they are bringing that to the forefront or i flip that mirror on them they look at themselves and they go, no, I don't like what I see.

They VW or they go or they leave. Yeah, so that's what I was going to say. It's also a filter. It's a filter. And that's what a selection process is. But that's how I, it's not only what a selection process is, that's how I live my life, Steve. I'm so brutally honest with what I do and situations I find myself in and the environment that I choose to be in

and it's that brutal honesty it's that brutal sort of truth that the motivator is always becoming a better version of who you are of of learning something growing from it and becoming a better version of who you were of of learning something growing from it and becoming a better version of who you were yesterday and how important is it to take personal responsibility for your outcomes in life because there's a growing culture of blame and you know victimhood and and i see this as well as someone that um you know the the best thing that probably happened to me is if i was successful and i had parents that were rich and i had loads of money and i got a degree and i got these great grades people would immediately go well no steve can't

tell us anything because he got it handed to him fortunately i was the opposite my black kid born in africa kicked out of school dropped out of university after one lecture got no degree parents are bankrupt so i can talk a little bit more about like personal responsibility behind you without being discredited. And people say, oh, well, of course you fucking say that. And like, but I see this growing culture because I was a kid in Moss Side in Manchester, stealing pizzas to feed myself only, I don't know, seven, eight years ago. And I know that my mindset and the behavior that my mindset created is the reason I'm sat here now.

Like, of course, there's luck, timing. I understand that. But my mindset increased my probability of'm sat here now. Like, of course there's luck, timing. I understand that. But my mindset increased my probability of being sat here now. So when I preach that to people, especially people that don't want to take personal responsibility or like, you know, victimhood or blame keeps them nice and safe and comfortable and it means they don't have to look

in the mirror. They go, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you guy. But it's hard to attack me. It's hard to attack me because what you're going to say yeah you know what privilege i had the privilege i had was moving to this country as a baby but that's the privilege of knowing who you are steve so you can take all that income yeah yeah because they haven't got the privilege of knowing you yeah right but you have the privilege of knowing yourself because guess what you've been there you've done it you've got the t-shirt you've been honest with yourself you you you realize you know you realize your mistakes

you realize your errors of your way you learn from failure you grow from it you become a better version of who you are so that's what that's why i say that that statement of we we have the privilege of knowing you is so powerful because ultimately that's what you fall back on all the time that's why you can take that's why you can take that take that and you can it will bounce off you just like that's your negativity that's your it's not nothing to do with me that's that's you and it bounces off me like it bounces off you but the moment you step into that victim mentality that's when you feel that the world owes you everything that's when you feel like that you know why is he why is he where he is and i'm not there why has he got this and i haven't got this why oh right well i could quite happily go back

and not be cancelled okay so for example if i went oh guys yeah really really sorry about that but i suffered from a bit from ptsd you know the death of my father, you know, it's like fucking hell. It's like, one, I don't suffer from PTSD. How many times have I had that thrown at me, Steve, going, and if you say you suffer from PTSD, who can question that? Well, no one can question it. Actually, wait, wait, there's one person that can question it. Me.

Because I haven't got fucking PTSD. Well person that can question it me because i haven't got fucking ptsd well no no no you haven't but if you say that then you know the papers will do this the um the the courts will do this people will start to go oh well actually you know the stuff that he's been through and he's seen he's done he's witnessed yeah of course listen throw him another bone give him another chance chance. I feel sorry for him. Fuck that. Do you know what I mean? It's like when I went to prison.

I left the military, went to prison, got into a violent altercation. Yeah, violence on violence. Of course, put my hand up 100%. I'll do my time. My lawyer said to me, and do you want to go to prison? I was like, of course, I don't want to go to prison. Who wants to go to prison? He said like, of course, I don't want to go to prison. Who wants to go to prison? He said, well, listen, here's your out. He went, say you've got PTSD.

If you say you've got PTSD, he said, I guarantee you. That's what he said to me. Guarantee you, you will not go to prison. You'll get suspended sentence. You'll have to go and do a couple of courses. And then you'll be at home with the family. Now I had four kids and a wife.

Actually at the time I had two children and a wife at home that relied on me. I couldn't lie to myself. I thought, don't get me wrong, I'm not going to lie to you. I thought to myself, do you know what? That sounds appealing because who can tell me that I haven't got PTSD?

But then the question always goes back to you because only you hold the answer, Steve. Only you have that answer. Only I knew that answer. I could lie to myself, live a lie, and fuck knows where I'd be now, right? I might be a bloody PTSD counsellor. I might be, but I would have gone down that road for years right so i've

got two years suspended since two years of going down a road that wasn't me going down that road of pure lies every step i took wouldn't be a true one i always say to people people will mold you and direct you in life you know that's what people are there for good people anyway they're trying mold but if that first footstep that you take is not a true one, I said, do not take it. And the only person that knows that is you. And I always, always, always go back to that. Do I feel comfortable taking this footstep? Yes, I do.

The rest of the world doesn't. Well, guess what? I feel comfortable doing it. But yeah, but she he's gonna have something to say about it she's gonna have something to say about they're gonna have something to say about it i don't care is it true to me go back to um yeah boom i take it and i deal with whatever comes at me because it can bounce off me right because as we spoke about it's like it's like we know who we are we know what we're about we know we know we're good people so i'm willing to take that bang bang bang and it does steve it does literally bounce off me but also it when it does get into me because the moment it starts you know when it gets over it does get into you once i sit down and process it

it fuels me i feel like i'm fanost you know it's like it's like it's just like because i'm being true to who i am and all this negative and i'm thinking right just just boom because guess what i preach positivity till it comes home i everything i believe is down to a positive mindset and how you perceive the way that you think um and the way you know we have a default mindset which is negative you know everything's like what if this what if that won't do that because of this and mine's the opposite mine's like my best outcome is this this this if anything comes along i deal with it okay and it's that mindset that i always always fall back on and it's and again it's it's

one of those i just find so liberating that i can just just think that way but i put myself in the firing line i put myself constantly in the firing line to constantly challenge myself to constantly flip these negatives into positives without negativity you wouldn't have positivity it wouldn't exist it doesn't you know it's the polar opposite so people say but so i challenge negativity i love negativity because i will challenge it and challenge it and challenge it i love the work ethic and the psychological sort of resilience it takes to challenge negativity because a lot of people that negativity comes they ignore it or they batter off they run away but the moment you dig into it and you dig into it and you dig and it takes time it takes time

as well isn't it it tests you right and you dig into it and all of a sudden you see a little light you see a little little glimp of positivity and that's all you're looking for is that one little seed you grab that boom bank that and then you grow that seed until you find the next one and there's nothing more rewarding in this world than flipping a negative into a positive because if you're willing and again if you're willing to work hard enough and you're willing to take the shit and the fucking uh and the bullshit and everything that surrounds negativity if you're willing to dive into the center of it and you're willing to work in order to flip it into a positive then i guarantee you you, you, you, you will find a positive in it.

And I guarantee you that would be the most rewarding thing you ever do. It's like failure. It's exactly the same with failure. I look at failure and it's just, it's like a challenge to me. It's like, you can't do that. And you don't know nothing about that. You're going to fail at that. Well, listen, I'll tell you what, I probably will fail at it, but I'm not scared to commit. Cause I know that the moment I commit to failure, I'll take two or three or four steps into failure. And I might go, yeah, right. I haven't achieved that. But those three or four steps I've taken, that's what I bank. Those moments in the moment, that's what I bank. A lot of people, they might take on failure and they might fail their objective

and they think, oh, I failed i failed that therefore i'm a failure and they forget how far they've come that just it's completely automatically written off because they're going oh i failed that do you mean it's like yeah i won't go near that again that becomes part of your identity i'm a failure i'm a failure yeah so they anytime failures they think they're safety bubble safety bubble victim but whatever they won't go anywhere near it but i love it when negativity comes along and failure comes along you know i'm so intrigued on what i'll get out of it i'm so intrigued what i learned from it because when you learn you grow when you grow you become a better version of who

you are it's just that it's that knock-on effect that it has and failure is exactly that failure isn't going anywhere i've failed up to now in my life. I'm going to fail to the day I die. So are you. So are you. So are you. Every single one of you in here is going to fail. Whether you like it or not, it is everyday part of life as much as it is breathing.

It's surrounded by us. So why do we ignore it? If it's part of who we are and part of what makes the world tick, then why don't we use it to our advantage? Because the perceived cost of failure whatever that might be you know jenny at work is going to think i'm not so whatever and this person's going to write this about me the perceived cost especially in the short term feels greater it feels and that's the same force of like the pc brigade or that you know

it's like it's better just to stay in your lane today and to just like put your head down be quiet because people think and this is the where it's wrong people think that's the safest place to be reflecting on my own journey when i went to university and i knew that i this was a piece of shit and that i needed to quit if i was actually going to become an entrepreneur like it's calling my mom and then telling her i'm dropping out and her telling me never to speak to her again right that was the resistance that was the moment where life goes stay in your fucking lane right yeah but when I and people go you were so you were so brave and then you're like that you're grabbing hold of the wheel like my brain was so clear the biggest risk the biggest failure

would have been staying in university and living a life not true to myself so people get people say oh you're so you're so much courage okay courage would have been staying yeah right and i think that's the that's the thing of course my mom says i'd never speak to me again and i don't speak to her for two years but look at the upside of living even if i'd failed like look at the upside of being myself and i think that's pretty much what i'm hearing from what you're saying is like there's this you know the there is the short-term resistance where it's like oh my god if you fail you're going to lose it all so no you'll lose it all if you don't try this is exactly how the thing about it is the way that your mindset thinks then it is it's not a complicated

way of thinking you know i mean it's like it's it's so simple really so simple stupid that it's almost incomprehensible um and everything that i do and you just said it then and make what you just said there makes complete sense to me every single word you said about that story i'm like that yes it's like it's obvious like why wouldn't you do that right but sometimes the most obvious things that are the hardest to process the hardest to to achieve and with my books and and my tours you know i don't get people coming off my tours going and you know i've tapped into this part of my brain now thank you for this it's like they come off my tours or read my books and go and it was always in there

yes you just gave me this kick yourself moment where i'm just like how did i not see that how did i not you put it in such layman terms because i'm i'm a simple man do you mean i'm where i'm just like how did i not see that how did i not you put it in such layman terms because i'm i'm a simple man do you mean i'm not i'm not an intellect i'm not a book worm i'm i'm a simpleton i'm a simple man i keep things the way i get to my answers is good bad right wrong positive negative yes no do you mean i keep it. It's listening. But it's listening to who I am. And it's the most simplest way of getting to where you need to be. But we let the constraints and the bullshit and the complications of society and what other people think cloud all of that. I almost see it like two dials, right?

One of them is this voice inside which everyone has in them they're saying go and dance in the hills of costa rica and then there's this other really loud dial right the sound dial and it's society and your mom and your whatever and that one's saying go be a fucking lawyer and shut up right and in all of our lives i think one dial is a little bit higher than the other and the the challenging thing but the most important thing you can do if you want to reach your potential be happy avoid mental health issues avoid midlife crises is to like turn up the internal dial and just try and get that the other dial which is society's voice right down to to fucking zero right and and i and i just do you know and i just

feel if everyone could just do that in their own lives which is not easy to do because listening to this internal voice is going to come with real resistance people are going to cancel you they're going to my mom's going to not speak to me for years right but in that's the short-term cost for a long-term gain and as is the way with comfort i see like comfort and like avoiding with that resistance is a it looks like a friend it's a short-term friend but a long-term enemy and if you know if you're if you're in the moments where you've said you've been like cancelled, quote unquote, had you caved, short-term friend probably would still have a show or two.

Yeah, of course. Long-term. But long-term, and I say to people, what you've got to realise is that you are with yourself 24 hours a day for the rest of your life. No one else can even come close to that. no one else can even come close to that no one else will will even come close to that so you are with yourself your whole life people they come and go situations they come and go so ultimately you've got to live with yourself first before you try and

live with anyone else before you try and live with any, before you try and put yourself into any environment. That's what I say to people when they go, well, I'm like, you're with yourself 24 hours a day to the day you die. Nothing comes close to that. No one comes close to being anywhere near that. That's the person you've got to honour. That's who you are.

So that's the person who you've got to honour. That's the person that you've got to make happy. That's the boss. That's the boss, right? That's the person you've got to make happy. It's impossible to please that voice and that voice, right? So like. But please yourself.

And ultimately, you know, what comes out, it will, you know, should be raw, should be authentic, should be true. So, and then you'll find your belonging. You'll find your circle. You'll find your like-minded people. You'll find your, yeah, you'll find your belonging. It's like, you know, you must know. As you get more successful, as you're you're yeah you'll find your belonging it's like you know you must know

as you get more successful as you you know you start thinking you start changing start evolving your mindset more and more and more and more your circle gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller i'm happy with that you know i'm i'm happy with that because not that i'm above anyone or below anyone you know we're just on different ends of the spectrum. Okay. Cause guess what? I'm going to keep evolving. My mindset's going to keep changing. I'm going to keep getting wise. I'm going to keep getting more knowledgeable. I'm going to keep being honest with myself. Now, for me, that's my purpose in life. Nothing out there. You know, it's nice to have the nice cars and nice houses. Don't, don't get me wrong. It's nice to have money. I've had no money and now I've got money. I know which side I'd rather be on.

Okay. That's all, but that's all what comes part and parcel with, with being true to who you are. Um, and my purpose in life, which is I will never achieve, but which is, I find fascinating is trying to get the best possible version of Ant Middleton, trying to get to that. Okay. But knowing that I never get to that answer, cause I'll be on this constant progression of becoming a better version of who I am, but I never become the best version of who I am because that's when you're perfect. That's when you're at 100% you, and that's not real. It doesn't exist.

But the purpose of getting closer and closer and closer and closer to that answer is such a fascinating journey for me that there's nothing that comes close to it there's nothing that comes close to it and whether i have the the counseling or the shows that keep coming or the tv production companies that call me now and the channels that go whether i have failures or whatever it may be all of these everything that bounces in towards me is a is something to learn from and it's a lesson and it's gonna i'm gonna learn from it and i'm gonna grow from it and I want to get closer and closer to the answer, closer and closer to my objective,

closer and closer to my purpose. And that is to try and get as close as I can to being the best version of myself. And I'm fascinated with that. I'm addicted by it. I'm addicted to it. I'm obsessed with it. So like I said, when I get that Thanos moment, I'm like, bring all this negativity at me.

Bring it because I'm just churning away at it. It doesn't mean I'm always happy. I'm not always happy. You know, I don't go around sprinkling positive fairy dust. I'm not that type of preacher, right? But I preach, you know, working on your mind to make it positive you know you know challenging negative situation thinking what's negative situation I've got to tackle it with a positive mindset make a conservative effort to train your mindset to think positively to flip the script

from this default mindset where everyone you know thinks thinks negatively um and I love working at that I love working out so all of this stuff that you give me, it does. Once I got, cause I go quiet, like this last week has been a media storm and I'll go quiet and I'll be with my family. I'll be with my management. They're like, aren't you quiet? And I'm like, I'm quiet cause I'm churning away at negativity.

I'm not unhappy. Don't get me wrong, listen, but I need to be left alone for two, three days, maybe a week. Cause there's so much negativity coming in and I'm chipping away at trying to find the light. No, nothing there. Trying to find the light, trying to find, ah, boom, bang. And then I bank this positivity.

And then the next week I'll be boom, back to Ant. Do you know what I mean? Back to this positive, naturally positive person because I've trained my mind to think like that. I'm always in a positive head space. But sometimes I'll go quiet doesn't mean I'm always happy. So don't get don't get positivity mixed up with happiness. Yeah, because they're two completely different things. And happiness comes from, yeah, in knowing who you are, you know, it comes from from being true to you are knowing who you are. And you could be the poorest man in the world and you could be there you know you could have no one or nothing but you could still be happy you know or you could be the richest man in the world and you know you know you know the script um one of them's like an general sense of optimism that i'm positive about the future and the other one's just like internal contentment and and uh but our moods change yeah of course

you know we have shit days bad days whatever but in turn we're optimistic and tight right yeah one of the questions i really wanted to ask you because of what's going on in the world with this whole pandemic and covid is i was thinking as i was like brushing my teeth or whatever this morning i was thinking there's a ton if my audience could ask you one thing probably would be around the fact that the world changed this year a lot of people's lives were uprooted they lost their businesses their jobs whatever and then i thought you know ants probably well i for sure has have been in situations where you felt like whether whether it's on the battlefield or whatever that this was a fight that the where the odds were against you yeah and in those moments there's winners and losers and i you know you always talk about mindset what is the mindset that people need in these moments where the odds don't look like they're very much in their favour

that you've seen from the battlefield, where you've emerged victorious because, you know, you didn't indulge in victimhood or whatever and you, yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, 100% makes sense. For me, it hasn't... It's about embracing change you know majority of people they live their life on

autopilot or they they live in the void i call it um where everything around them is changing you know the world is constantly changing everything around us is constantly changing whether it's you know climate control whether it's know, in the way that we think, the way that we're evolving, the way that the world is going, the way that animals are evolving, the way that the sea is encroaching or, you know, decreasing, whatever it may be, everything is changing around us. And we are designed to change with it. So what we're actually doing is we're actually going against the grain when we become complacent, when we get comfortable, when we get into one sort of situation and we stay in that situation. It's going, we're working in the opposite way that the world should be evolving.

We should be constantly changing. We should be constantly evolving. We should be constantly moving forward. You know, look at my career. I've gone from the army to the Marines, to the special forces, to the media, to, to books, to authors, to literacy, to business. It's like, I'm constantly, I love, love change. I love being put in a situation where I'm literally chucked in the deep end with dive boots on and I have to tread water. I love that because it's so challenging and it's so, so stimulating that you're forced to change. You're forced to think of something different. You're forced to, to, to do something differently. You're forced to change the way that you,

you approach something because you've been put in a situation where it's been forced upon you but when it's not forced upon you when it's not forced upon you um which the world does it forces it upon us but when it's not forced upon you when you when you get comfortable then you get you fall into this void you fall into this complacency you fall into to not moving along with the world but does that is that those are your demons again because i'm thinking the reason why ant loves to be chucked into the water with his dive boots on is because you relish challenge and this is comes maybe links to the victimhood point and a general problem in culture and society where people like comfort cotton wool yeah a lot of people are being brought up now with cotton

wool not designed we're not designed to be comfortable we're not designed to have cotton wool strapped around us it's society it's the restraints and the shackles of society that is forcing us to be like this it's not who we are look how far we've come you know look out look at look at just through history how far we've come and i feel like that we're actually devolving now i actually feel that we've got to a point where we're going backwards where you know used to be survival of the fittest yeah and you know i used to push a rock in front of your cave you know i mean to survive you know used to be at the you know the top of the food chain um you know it's're not designed to be comfortable. We're not designed

to be wrapped up in cotton wool. We're not designed to be shackled down. And that's why there's so many problems in the world right now. It's because of these shackles. It's because of these chains. It's because of the restraints that society is putting on us it's forcing us into into mental illness it's forcing us to to act in ways that we're not designed to act in it's forcing us to to switch off to the most powerful tool that the universe that's in the universe your minds we're forced to just put it on fucking dormant you know that be a it's we're going against the grain of what we're supposed to do, of who we're supposed to be, on how we're supposed to act and how we're supposed to evolve. So when you've got this going around like this and then this stops,

there's this synchronicity that's not working in partnership with each other. You know, without us on this this planet this planet wouldn't be as evolved as it was without the planet then we wouldn't be evolved as it was you know and what what's actually happening is is you've got this this this these two forces that are grinding against each other rather than working together with each other in synchronicity i i i was reading this crazy thing the other day and i think i've talked about this maybe once before but it shows that um the life expectancy in the uk and the us fell for two years in a row and i think it was like last year the year before whatever for the first time ever and they look at the numbers as to why the life expectancy has fallen

for the first time ever and it's because of like the opioid crisis people who are getting addicted to drugs and then they say so why are people getting more and more addicted to drugs and they say well because they're lacking meaning in their life and when people lack meaning the science has shown you whether you do it to animals you take away their meaning i talked i think in the last podcast and i hate to repeat myself but i also don't care about these rats and i fucking because i write about my book i'm so fascinated by it they put a rat in a cage and take away everything from it and they give it the option of drinking heroin water or normal water it becomes a drug addict they then introduce a partner some stimulation some running wheel some other things

and they give it heroin water or normal water and it doesn't choose the heroin water it doesn't become a drug addict just by inserting meaning into its life it avoids the heroin and then you think okay so what's going on in society you think well people are lacking challenge and meaning because we're trying to create a culture maybe where challenge and meaning are a bad thing and and that's actually having an adverse effect because as you say very eloquently like that's not who we are you know i love how you just put that steve because you've just put my thoughts into a scientific sort of into scientific form um because again i'm not an intellect i'm not a bookworm you, it's like I have psychiatrists come up to me and go, where did you study at?

But no, honestly, what books did you do? And I'm like, no, no, this is all, every single little ounce of me is through life experience. I come from the university of life. You know, and what I've just said there is it's strange that, and that's why I love talking to people like yourself, because I've put that as in how I'm thinking. I haven't read anything from a book and you've just put it into a whole sort of scientific.

And I was like, that's exactly that. It's exactly what I've just said. And you've just put it into, into something that's been proven. And that's, that's the way that I think that's the way that I, that's the way that I perceive life.

And it's funny because as you say, you're not, you didn't, you said, I'm not an intellectual, but I've sat here with intellectuals and they've said the exact same thing. Like Johanna Hari, he wrote a book book on this nine reasons why people are getting depressed and anxious best-selling book he sat here and he said the exact same thing so when i

hear it twice or three times and then i read it in another i think these are just fundamental truths yeah and when i get to that point where you've been you've walked a different walk of life to that that intellect who's wrote a book on it but you've both arrived at the same place okay that's going in my fucking like in my diary forever you know but that's that's super interesting as well it's like you know you you but you can't take away that you know you can't you can't unwrite that because it's written within evolution it's written within the way the world has evolved it's written in the way the world has evolved. It's written in the way that we think. It's written in the organs, the muscles and the body that we have.

It's all here. It's all fucking present right now. It's not in a book that we're going to read. It's fucking happening right now. It's here. It's real. This energy source that you are, your fucking energy source, we're energy sources, is synchronized with the planet, which is one big energy source.

It's one big ball. And I had a moment of clarity on when I was filming. I've always felt connection with the Earth. Now I talk about, you know, we can climb to the highest peak of the apex of the world, Mount Everest. We can climb to that because people said, yeah, but we've had to do this, this,

and this in order to get there, you know, working against the mountain. I'm like, no, the way that that mountain is formed is that's a foothold for you. That's a, that's an arm reach for you.

That's, you know, it's, it's designed to work with you. So don't look at a mountain and go off. Can I go get up there? It's working against me. No,

no. It's that little stone there that you put your foot that's helping you up to to to stand on on its apex it's helping you up to stand on its summit and um I've always felt a connection with the earth always always always you know when I put my feet in it when I put my hands in it you know I belong here you know and I have this sort of I have this theory that people think that, you know, that if you put the planet as a tree, they think we're just birds that come and sit on the tree and they think we're just visitors and then we go.

We're not, we're the leaves. We're the tree, yeah. Yeah, we're the leaves of the tree. Do you know what I mean? And then, you know, we grow in it. We're part of, you know, we're part of this evolution. Very spiritual. Yeah, but I'm not a spiritual person a spiritual person but maybe you are but maybe your definition's wrong because i posted on my instagram last week yeah we've just had it's funny my instagram post

literally says i've never thought of myself as a spiritual person because i don't resonate with like the hippie stigma yeah yeah like i'm not that guy however the end it's one story yeah the end of it was like i if you define spirituality as feeling somewhat connected to the world which i now do then i now consider myself to be spiritual this was just one story and this was like three days ago because a lot of people do ask if i'm spiritual and i i always say no but yeah maybe i am but it's that it's that theory of of being there's a you know. One can't live without the other. And we're the leaves.

And yeah, we're going to fall off and there's going to be new leaves. But everything recycles back into itself. Do you know what I mean? We don't just all of a sudden go up into, no, everything goes back into the earth. Everything regenerates. You're definitely spiritual.

Because I went and Googled it, definition of spirituality. And the definition I read was like the feeling or belief that we are interconnected with the world i read was like the feeling or belief that we are interconnected with the world the stigma is the issue that's what alienates both of us from saying i'm a spiritual because we're not like hippies we're not like you know but we are we like i love that you know what i mean so and i go back going back to this moment where i where it just resonates you know and the reason why i do all these things is is i just want to reconfirm that my way of thinking is, is true, is true to me is, is, is why I do this, you know? And that's why I put myself in these awkward

situations. Cause it just, it gives a light bulb moment where I go, do you know what? Bloody hell, you know, I'm on the right path. I'm getting this right. And, um, I was away, I was away filming and I, and I felt this, you know, I was out in the mountains in Chile, in the Andes. And I could just feel a real connection, you know, like a real presence. You know, it's a lovely, lovely feeling. And I can just remember an energy connection. It was really strange that it happened. An energy connection.

And as I was walking by, I was walking alongside of this mountain. And as I'm walking alongside, I heard a big massive bang. And I turned towards the mountain. And I'm not joking. It was probably about 300 meters away. So I was like, you know, and this bit of rock went, must have passed. No word of a lie, within two meters of me. You know, and a big, because the mountains it's an energy source they're

fucking burst and they're literally like that and the mountain every now and then it's the first time i experienced i heard about it but i'd never experienced it and went bang and it nearly took my head off to the point where i was like fucking hell what was the incoming you know and then i realized i was like well just and you see a little bit of mountain fall off and it's where the energy the energy of that mountain and you know unless you get out and about you see it's like and i thought to myself wow i remember stopping and thinking i felt that before that even not that specific moment but but I felt the energy. I felt the connection there. And then that was,

it's almost as if the mountain was talking to me going, what you feeling is right. Listen, we are, listen, we are powerful. We have a connection. Without you, there wouldn't be me. Without me, there wouldn't be you. And just that confirmation just makes me realize wow you know this is this is this is powerful stuff this is you know this is how you should be feeling once you're in tune with

yourself and then and then and connected to the to this planet then there's there's there's not much that you feel that you can't do there's not much that phases you in life there's not much that you feel that you can't do there's not much that phases you in life there's not much that you won't try and achieve there's not there's not much that you won't achieve and i feel i feel sorry or because you can i can talk about being in tune with with the planet and being you know being connected to to mother earth but unless you are in tune with that then you just think i'm talking bollocks you just think what the hell is he on about he's some spiritual idiot blah blah blah blah blah so you know this is the personal life that i really keep to myself you know i've spoke a lot about it today which i've never spoken about before but this is this is who i am i mean so there's there's so much more behind what the media put out and what the what the

papers put out and what the you know the media agenda is and what they want you to be seen as and there's this whole life behind me that is that i just that's the real me that's who i am so when any of this other stuff that's made up by other people that comes in from from not within it is so easy for me just to bat off so easy for me just to go bang bang bang but don't get me wrong sometimes i work harder at it to bat it off sometimes it does stick and you have to go all right but it's such a liberating feeling and i'll always say to people and this is this is this is my you know find out who you are go on that journey not self-discovery because that sounds spiritual right go on that journey of of finding your

purpose of fun of becoming the best version of who you are because once you start that journey you will get addicted to it it is fascinating and it will it will only serve you well it will only serve you well because it's a life i want to live till i'm 150 because say i live till i'm 50 100 100 years isn't long enough i still want more i want to know more i want to i want to be on this journey for the for as long as i can be on this journey this is what gives me longevity this is what gives me purpose i want to be on this journey for as long as i can be and when i think the only setback is when I think, you know, I've got another, you know, 50, 60 years of it,

it sort of saddens me. So I'm hoping that by that stage, we can live to be a bit more immortal. A bit more mortal. Oh, yeah. Well, listen, I think that's a really powerful place to end. And I think that's something that I'll continue to point out i wanted to say thank you though because there are a few people that are have the courage in this day and age to be themselves and to speak their mind and

that and unfortunately it feels like a bit of a dying breed but you're one of those people and having spent time with you before we started filming and during this conversation i got to know i had the privilege of getting to know who you are a little bit as you say and um that's a person that i do respect when that inspires me and reminds me of the importance of following my my truer self um so i just wanted to say thank you thank you for having this conversation today and thank you for being yourself save your gentleman thank you thank you Thanks for watching!