The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - David Gandy: Highest Paid Male Model Opens Up About Insecurities & Imposter Syndrome

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

David Gandy is an icon and an inspiration. Once the highest paid model in the UK, the first man to ever hold that title, David changed male modelling for good. An icon of rounded masculinity as well as rugged good looks, David has been shining a torch for men for over two decades now. Today, David tells us what it took to reach the top. Starting out as a pizza delivery boy in Essex, David has always had the attitude of wanting to be the best. Some things never change. Whether that’s staying till midnight in order to get that last delivery and be the number one delivery boy, or training in the gym five times a week in order to get to the top of modelling. Now, David has his own label, which he’s launching in November. Creating a unique combination of lifestyle and fashion, David is taking a bold step in launching a business that’s uniquely his own. But he’s just doing what he’s always done, inspiring men to be the best version of themselves. Follow David: Website - https://www.davidgandywellwear.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgandy_official Twitter - https://twitter.com/DGandyOfficial Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to amazon music who when they heard that we were expanding to the united states and i'd be recording a lot more over in the states they put a massive billboard in time square um for the show so thank you so much amazon music um thank you to our team and thank you to all of you

that listen to this show let's continue everything that people said well you're lucky to work with dolce gabbana and i can say that wasn't luck. It was strategy. What's that imposter voice saying is going to be found out? Good question, I suppose. Do you have insecurities? Yeah, of course I do. Has that ever had an impact on you?

I never believed my own hype. It's very easy once you see yourself in articles and winning awards and everyone's telling you how amazing you are. But I suppose I never really did. I didn't fit in particularly well and I've seen the extremities of mental health. Me, myself, going to dark periods where nothing would suffice, nothing would cheer you up.

If you haven't got a thick skin, you shouldn't be in this game. David Gandhi. At one point, he was one of the highest paid male models in the entire world. A beautiful, beautiful man. And so hearing that and seeing how beautiful he is would understandably make you assume a lot of things about him. But what you're going to hear today is that those things are wrong and that you should never judge a book by its cover. How is it possible that someone that looks like David Gandhi can describe themselves as having imposter syndrome, being low in confidence and waiting to be found out. He's now become an entrepreneur. He's focused on launching his brand new brand, David Gandhi Wellwear, and he's taking on a completely different

industry. It's crazy because when you open people's diaries, you never know what you'll find. And what I found in David's today was truly fascinating, unexpected, vulnerable, and extremely surprisingly relatable. So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. There's a lot of very beautiful people in the world right um but they don't manage to achieve what you've achieved across multiple disciplines whether it's within your modeling career which is incredibly competitive space to play and one with shrouded with huge amounts of uncertainty or whether it's now in business with what you're doing with your brands there and your investments

so my question is what is it about you in your sort of self-diagnosis that has made you rise to the top in those pursuits that's a good question and also where did it come from this is one says is probably the modeling one to to start off with and that was, I questioned why men weren't in the same position as the female supermodels. And you had the equivalent of the male supermodels at the time, and you always have that, but they were never to the, you know, to that level of fame, of, you know, sort of financial rewards of, as the female supermodels. And I questioned that that was all

and thought, is there a possibility? Is there almost, I suppose, a gap in the market? The first five years, no one actually realizes that I really didn't do that much for the first five or six years. It was, you know, of course we didn't struggle and it was a lot of, a lot of sort of catalog work. Earning really good money wasn't what I wanted to do,

but I got to work with the likes of Chrissie Terrence and Naomi Campbell and those people, and I literally just observed them and asked them questions and sort of got the answers I wanted, and I all realized that it was a business for them. They had great teams, they had great agencies, they had PRs and PAs, it was run as a business. And then you had the guys, you know, they were the top of the fashion at the time, it wasn't a business for them. It was a lovely way of making a living and they were very fortunate to be there some of the time not even admitting that they were models they were in advertising or marketing as a lot of

people used to say and I just used the female platform and I went to head of my agency Tandy Hanson and said I don't want to do this commercial work anymore I don't it doesn me. It's not when she said, what do you want to do? I said, if I'm going to do this, I want to be the best at it. And she said, right, literally from tomorrow, I've said this a million times, you have to stop all that commercial work because you have to be perceived in a total different light to get to where you want to be.

So every bit of that work, and I say we're earning very good money, I just quit everything. We said no to all the campaign, no to be. So every bit of that work. And I said, we're earning very good money. I just quit everything. We said no to all the campaign, no to all the catalogs. And she said to me, like, in a position, that's what most models are dreaming of, earning what? Not dreaming of, but they see yours as an enviable position. I said, Dan, it's just not what I want to do. I'm not happy doing it.

So to me, I had nothing to lose because I wouldn't have carried on. So we then started building up this other perception of me within the fashion industry, not the catalog model, not the commercial model, but editorial, a bit more sort of fashion-based. And that's when we instigated a meeting with Dolce & Gabbana. And that's how I did their campaign. The campaign led to Light Blue. And Light Blue was, to me, a tick in the box for them to achieve what I did their campaign. The campaign led to Light Blue and Light Blue was to me a tick in the box for them to achieve what I wanted to achieve. And it was a phenomenal success and it still is.

But that was what I needed. That was the platform pretty much from there. And then we could put the team together to say, where do you want to be in three years? Where's the next three years after that? Where do you want to achieve? And I'm a big believer in having goals. Not always having to do you want to achieve? And I'm a big believer in having goals. Not always having to achieve them, things change.

But I'm a big believer in having goals so you know roughly where you want to end up at something. And then game is a, I always say, life is like a game of chess and you're moving pieces to get to that checkmate, to where you want to be. And often it diverts and you have to have different tactics but you you have to have the ambition to know the exact point to where you want to be of course and

you get there and being a maybe an entrepreneur or typical person I am then I'm on to the next thing and not particularly satisfied and you know I've achieved that so what's the next achievement where do you go from there what role do you think luck has played as you view your journey in hindsight what role and you know everyone you know especially very successful people will always have a kind of different relationship with luck what role do you think luck has played in your journey and however you would define luck it annoys me if someone says you're very lucky And I feel like I have to go on this statement and go, hang on, let me just tell you about it. You haven't seen the hard work that's gone in that.

And I realize that sort of gets you nowhere. So listen, I was fortunate to be born like I am. Six foot two in the frame I have with the way I look. And people perceive that as the the way they do and it's you can make money from that hugely fortunate but as you said before there are a lot of good looking people there are a lot of beautiful people I've admitted myself I go into my agency there are 25 better looking guys on that board there are 50 better models i've just cast 10 of them for my brand they're they're better models than me they're better spokespeople than me i was fortunate

to be in that position but then you and say you make your own luck you maybe you do so every sort of everything that people say well you're lucky to work with dolce gabbana and i can say well let me tell you how the story of how we went to meet dolce gabbana how we instigated that yeah that wasn't luck yeah it was strategy and it was not my i think at the time everyone's going you are armani you are ruffler and you are money ruff and it was tandy anson who said you are dolce gabbana you are dolce gabbana don't listen to anyone else you are dolce and itabbana, you are Dolce & Gabbana, don't listen to anyone else, you are Dolce. And it was her genius that sort of instigated this meeting with them. And then through that and working with Tandy and working with Select, everything we've achieved is strategy.

It's gone out. It's like, what do you want to achieve? What do you want to, what's your goal? And it doesn't just happen. Yes, there's certain opportunities that come around that people approach you. But we approach a lot of people with ideas and we approach people, we would love to do this.

You know, M&S. It was us who wanted to do that collaboration. And I wanted to do it with one of the biggest British institutions that everyone knows and everyone has a great thing. I wanted to do it with M&S. We had lots of different brands approach us. We didn't want to do great thing that I want to do with M&S. We had lots of different brands approach us. We didn't want to do that. We wanted to do it with M&S.

And that, again, we didn't start off by just doing a collaboration and, you know, a huge deal. It was, I had to model for two years with them, prove that I could sell, prove that I could work with M&S. Then we talk about collaboration. Then we would move on and, you know, then they trusted me.

But it didn't, it's not a finger click, you know. Yeah, it's because the way that luck, those moments, the amazing collaboration, that amazing email that comes out of nowhere, in hindsight, because it appears to have come out of nowhere, it always appears in hindsight like luck. And I've got my own examples from my story where when I was 18, 19 years old i went on linkedin and typed an investor the first person that came up i emailed him and he invested in my company so people think you know they say you got

lucky right and i'm like well you know again it's what to what you said about the story well look at the email it was sent at 3 a.m and i show on stage i'm like and i then remove the time stamp and i'm like i was up at 3 a.m thinking about emailing people so for me action and what you described there is like that smart strategic work is just increasing probability that you know you might get what people call luck and um in that moment with dolce and cabana and when when you form that that partnership with them how pivotal was that for you and the trajectory of your career in like real terms light blue is the reason i'm here and i'm you know the famous commercial but again you could look back to that that when i came into modeling the circle of the fashion world at that stage of

what was perceived as fashionable was the small androgynous skinny guy now I'm over six foot two I was quite skinny when I came in but I built up and I just got bigger and everyone else said you need to get smaller you need to fit in you need to you're too big you're getting too big but that's where I was happiest I wasn't doing doing it for a reason. I was always playing sport. I wanted to continue. I couldn't play sport anymore, so I was in the gym. And it was, you know, to have a good physique and be healthy was the way I was happiest in my head, in my well-being.

So that's what I did. And in a way, I just looked at the models and Tyson Beckwith and Tyson Ballou and Paul Skolfa and all these different people that were, you know were the Levi's guys, the famous Levi's ads that we used to look at and the Ralph Lauren guys. I was like, they're all big, muscular, classically handsome guys and they were the biggest in the industry.

So I just thought this has got to come around at one point. So when it actually came around to that creative for Light Blue, of course, there was a smaller pop because everyone had followed each other yeah yeah and then there was me and we'd just done the campaign with auction cabana and then we went to do and do light blue but that the day it came out and it just changed everything i mean literally changed everything and i hate when people say that but it was went from that campaign going out in the afternoon, phone not stopping, and I think I went to New York and my agency just called up and just said,

we've got The Telegraph, The Times, The Mirror, they all want to speak to you, they all want to have an interview with you. And we didn't have PRs at that point. I was like, okay, how does this work? Very green about it all, but exciting. So that changed. So you're talking there about lifestyle.

How did your lifestyle change? And I want to know about like how people treated you and friends and, you know, romantic potential partners when that blows up for you, the phone doesn't stop ringing. How does your world shift from like a very personal perspective? Friends have never changed great and we're still you know on all on whatsapp groups and see each other i don't see them as much they all live closer together and and that's a shame really but it's just never changed i get the absolute roasting roasting all the time i'm just an easy

target you can just google my name there are so many pictures that get put down like okay i can't really say much about so but and that's it you know it keeps you and i love that no one takes themselves too seriously and i think hopefully that's what i didn't do too much as i always said to people if models ever come up to me now and say what made you different or how did what did you learn i said i never believed my own height it's very easy once you see yourself in articles and winning awards and everyone's telling you how And so what made you different or what did you learn? I said, I never believed my own hype. It's very easy once you see yourself in articles and winning awards and everyone's telling you how amazing you are to believe that. But I suppose I never really did.

Do you have imposter syndrome? Yes. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. And what does that mean in practical terms in your mind and your thoughts? You're always waiting to be found out i think there's the end of the day you're always waiting for you know you sort of go okay like come on if you've had a really good inning even 15 years in yeah well 20 20 years in we've had a good

you know i'm still thinking that today to be found out you do that by putting yourself at risk at something it's more like i suppose there's there is the risk and reward so everything i do there has to be a slight risk otherwise it's not sort of worth i suppose me doing it so there's always got to be that risk of failure in many ways and i don't mind failure i've learned more from failure than i have from success, to be honest. And that risk element of, you know, Vanity Fair asking me to write an article. I mean, I'm not a writer. To do that is scary.

And I won't have anyone write it for me. I have to do it. We're going back to the integrity thing. I have to do it. That goes for sort of the fashion game to collaborating with brands, to investing. You know, as you know, it's a risk there's an element of risk i take into i suppose everything and i suppose it makes life exciting what do you

think when you say be found out what's going to be found out what's that imposter voice saying is going to be found out good question i suppose have you bitten off too much then you can shoot but no one can be as as uh harsh a critic to me as i am myself i will beat myself up in something failures i will beat myself up if i don't do the best job um so no one can affect me like that by actually saying anything because i'm my worst critic so yeah that's actually a good point of what someone you know what that voice is going to say to me just a whisper of doubt I guess that may be well the way that I typically think about imposter syndrome or at least I've seen it in my business and there's a couple of like top level execs in my business that talk about imposter syndrome a lot and it sounds like um yeah exactly what you've described there like biting off more than you can

chew and are you really capable and experienced enough to be at this level doing this thing do you do you really have the skills yeah there's other people that are smarter and better and that have you know you know won more awards or you know experienced something like that there's also the side that and it's not about money it's about success there's a lot of people that actually don't particularly want other people to do well. Most people. They will try to bring you down in many ways and put doubts in your mind. It's like the backhanded commentizer, as I always sort of call it. It's hard for someone.

And I've learned that from other people's someone and I I've learned you know sort of that from other people's comments and what they've said to me and I'd make sure I never ever do that and I always just encourage people and if I can help I will help them and that's probably where my investments have come from in many ways is I've had this opportunity and I haven't borrowed a penny in my life to get to where I was you know I when I first went to New York for modeling I used to go around and couldn't afford to eating nice places so every time I'd go on like castings I was walking around all day and going to shoots I would then go past a like a diner and they would have a special deal onto it be like a burger fry and something else

for 5.95 and I would write it down go I've got to remember to come back here because it's 5.95 plus taxes like I suppose I can have a beer and it might be ten dollars that's where I used to have to think because I just didn't didn't have anything then I've always wanted to then I think I'd never really had any help but I would like to help people talking about helping them helping people and then other people tearing people down with female models I think we can all quite easily believe how nasty comments would affect them but there's something in in i think the public perception or within society where we think oh if you slag off a male model if you criticize them say nasty things about them they'll be fine if you go on twitter for example it's totally okay just a people will tweet at pierce morgan

all day saying you're a fat but that people would never do that to well they would but it would be much it would be considered much differently if they were saying that to a woman i believe that to be true so i guess my ultimate question here ultimately is like have strangers criticizing saying nasty things on the internet about you how you look or whatever has that ever had a impact on you in this business anyway if you haven't got a thick skin you shouldn't be in this game you've got to have a thick skin and it's what I understood and I've probably only actually understood this from having to cast myself for people to represent my brand is that you're not being horrible to someone. Someone doesn't fit what you have perceived in your head.

And that could be for any reason whatsoever. The attitude you bring into it, the charisma you come into that day on that casting, the way you look, and it could be anything. That person's too skinny, that person's too tall, that person's not big. You know, anything. And you have to realize that when you were casting is they weren't it wasn't personal it was almost business no you just don't fit the creative that we want at the moment that changes when you have a name that change when you have a brand because they're buying into your brand they're buying into your

engagement your fans that's different but when they first look at you at face value and there's different people you know there's been castings where they're on the phone they don't say anything to you put the book down they go through two pages and they hand it back to you now that is a bit demoralizing but hey you know like i've always made sure and i probably overcompensated that because i've been on the other side of you know casting casting other people as i probably kept there for too long and just chatted and everything else so internet trolls though like someone on Instagram or in the DMs just, you post something and they just, meh. No?

I'm very fortunate that my fan base, which is a very organic fan base actually, on social, are massively kind and positive. And that's the way I've always put social. I'm not a big lover of social media. I've stated it before. I see the use of it. I see the brilliance of it. I also see the negativity from it, especially for young children.

I've spoken out about that. Yes, does that do things affect? Yeah, of course. You'll probably know this, is that you might see 100 comments, all positive, and then 101 comment, 102 comment is negative and you'll remember it you'll remember those two comments so you can't remember the other hundred that are positive and it's a really weird thing

so it's like dealing with people you deal with the nice ones you don't deal with the negativity and that's what we've tried to do really and again another sort of social i guess um not maybe stereotype but sort of misunderstanding would be that someone that is you know makes their career out of modeling someone that's very you know um attractive um like yourself um surely they can't have insecurities surely they realize that they are you know surely they can't have self-doubts like us muggles who had gq are yet to call doesn't everyone have insecurities i can't believe that you tell me there's not a person that doesn't have insecurities do you have insecurities yeah of course i do absolutely so physical insecurities of course they do

i heard you said something about your if your nose and your your nose my nose my eyes got any big or my nose my ears got any bigger which they do the only you said something about your nose and your nose? My nose and my eyes got any bigger, or my nose and my ears got any bigger, which they do. The only things that came were like, I just look like the BFG. Also, I think something that, going back to the sort of trolling and Instagram,

that is this thing about age now. Age is used as a weapon. You are so old. Look at all your wrinkles it actually sort of makes me laugh when people say my god you're like and most people have positive comments but they can say oh you're getting older yeah everyone is i've been in this game for 20 years if you're comparing an image from 20 years ago i'm not going to look the same but it's almost like it's a negative thing you know it's and that that's I've noticed that increasingly over the last couple of years,

is this aged thing is used as a weapon, as if it's a bad thing. Does that bother you? No. I've always felt I've always been quite an old man in a young man's body anyway. So, should I say mature? But,

no, you grow old at the end of the day. You grow a little bit wiser. You calm down a little bit more and you accept yourself for who you are a little bit more as well. Twenties and thirties, thirties less, but twenties can be quite tricky for everyone. You don't quite know who you are.

You're trying to find out where you are in the world. Then I think you get a bit more confidence in your 30 and i that's where my 30 sort of came from to why are you trying to be something else or trying to fit in and i never fit in i've never fitted in ever anywhere really particularly well or felt i haven't particularly fitted in you're in the fashion industry i've never felt i fitted in i was telling um a model the other day actually we were working with and we all used to go off to new york for this big casting two weeks try and get the jobs be all the big agencies and you would go go in a group of probably about 10 guys and you'd have a list back in those days you would

have a fax believe or not we didn't have mobile phones it was a fax so you got your fax in the morning you had all your appointments nine o'clock ten o'clock eleven o'clock twelve o'clock all the way through everyone used to go down to the subway or walk and we'll go together and there was this very pack mentality and i was never into that pack mentality i was quite always a i say a much more sort of individual sort of loner so i used to look at the facts and i used to let them go around the corner and i would virtually take upside down and do the opposite way so those nine guys would go to the nine o'clock and i would go to the six o'clock and i would just turn up at the office and go hi i know i'm supposed to be here at nine o'clock but

is john someone in yeah yeah he's here and i go can I see him you take the opportunity where you've got imagine going through seeing nine guys speaking to nine guys looking at the third person you're like they're going to be bored

and you take the opportunity so I did that all the way around and that's what I did kind of all the time it was thinking constantly of like outside the box

of doing something different yeah it's amazing how those small things can create such significant like it's such a marginal thing can create such a big gain. And most people are obviously,

they don't even try and think outside of the script. And so they end up competing in a very saturated way for a limited amount of rewards. But one slight innovation in the process, I think can deliver such an exponential return. In the industry of modeling, one thing that I think is probably, I don't have any data to support this claim, but I think is probably rife because of the nature of the business and what I

know about the subject of mental health and mental well-being is anxiety. And I've just seen amongst my friends the women that I know that model high levels of anxiety for a variety of reasons have you ever suffered with anxiety yourself at any point in your career? I'm naturally a shyer person but shyness is not anxiety so I can't say

if I probably gave someone symptoms of stuff i've had or things that happen they might say well that's anxiety my anxiety if i still think of now there's there's a weird thing of when i hear the music to the antiques roadshow on a sunday night i still have anxiety that i haven't done my homework and I have to go to school next day that's how much I hated didn't hate I hated school up to a certain point the sixth one was great with my friends that I still have but that was the point of I still have that today when I hear that music I literally stop and I'm like oh you know oh I don't have to go to school tomorrow what was so bad about school I mean I was I didn't fit in at school

that was basically it it wasn't you know all good friends from that school but it was just a certain time before I kind of met those people the group of guys I called and girls I used to

you know sort of hang around with and there was bullying and there was I just didn't fit in that was all it was so you were bullied in school primary school or secondary school?

Secondary school, yeah. Primary was quite fun. I enjoyed primary school. Secondary school was just something different. Maybe went to the wrong school. Maybe made the wrong choices. It was me. I'm not blaming anyone.

I'm not blaming anything. It was just, and I was quite steadfast of not fitting in. I didn't fit in particularly well. And I wasn't going to change my way of fitting into everyone else. In what way didn't you fit in? I just... A bit like the same. I'm still like it. I'm still in the fashion.

That example of not being in that group, not being that pack, not doing the same thing everyone does, exactly the same thing. I didn't want to be in that. I saw things differently and wanted to do things my way. Maybe that's it. I mean, maybe it was doing something my way.

And I've always looked at that. That goes on for, that can go into, if you look, it can go into styling. It's like, well, no one's wearing suits. I'm going to wear suits then. Well, no one's, you know, why don't you do this? It's like, you know, people still take the mickey out of me because I do not own a pair of sneakers or trainers.

And the people, like now, everyone, that's all they're wearing. I have one pair and I go to the gym with them and I have a running pair. And everyone sort of looks at you as if, but I love that fact. You know, it's just me being a little bit different. But it can also lead to,'s just me being a little bit different but it it can also lead to you know being a little bit stubborn that you take that to a little bit far of not ever relinquishing that you want to be sort of different like all the time you want to i don't

know why you do it was that physical but was that bullying because of physical things they were they were saying that you were physically different or physically different no you thought maybe it was the way i thought if you think about that now yeah it's just because in i do find this still now in the world that everyone likes to pigeonhole everyone likes to you are put in a certain category person and if you don't fit in then you're strange you're a strange person why don't you like the same stuff why don't you wear the same stuff as us why don't you think the same way that we think of course it's now got to it's like very polarized when we have different opinions as they attack each other now it's like you see the left or right there's nowhere in the middle and it was it was i think that element that i've always just i suppose i've been

quite an individual thinker in some ways we're kind of and that's might put me in good stead for the business we're in um but yeah the anxiety thing maybe it's a confidence again when i was confident into going something i was absolutely fine you know i just wanted an opportunity that was always what i want to be able to um you know people say why have you not gone into acting why are you not i'm not confident if there's anxiety give me a script to learn and try and put me in front of a camera and you'll see that's where i'll probably be anxiety although i've done that and i achieved and i quite loved it so it was a scary side of it but it's not something I'm naturally good at isn't it you know people would people again talking about naivety right people

would never guess that you would say you weren't confident and it's almost like the conversation I had with Ben Fogel you would just it's just not what you would expect based on like stereotypes one would expect you to be an extrovert yeah you know super confident some kind of you know very loud you know braggadocious boisterous guy but you appear to be the opposite of that and especially on the point of confidence yeah i mean i wouldn't say i've got a lack of confidence there's lack of confidence well i think i know my limitations maybe and when i but i also like pushing those limitations to see where i can get to and seeing what i can achieve and learn um but the confidence i mean gq awards we went to two

weeks ago and you sent up your i didn't get an invite by the way i'd sort it out with gq um you're on the red carpet done it a million times before there's still dread filled and like i'm filled with dread to getting on that red carpet and having the pictures taken it's just not a natural environment for me and i was thrilled that there was a you know a hugely long queue because everyone wanted to be on the red carpet everyone wanted their picture taken everyone wanted to be in the papers and put it on their instagrams and i went too long i'm not you know i'm going to swerve that one so i swerved it and went upstairs and went into an environment where i was much happier where actually i needed to speak to a few certain people for a few certain reasons and went to go and hunt them down and go

and speak to them what was it about what was the sort of psychological discomfort you you you feel when you think about going on the red carpet and doing that because you described going upstairs to a place where you were happier so what's the unhappiness of the red carpet for you it's just an unnatural environment for me to be when. When you're on set, when you're employed by a brand to create what is their vision, you're playing a role. Like Blue, I'm a Mediterranean guy in Italy in small white Speedos. It's not me. It is me, but there's a role you're playing.

I know there's actors as well I've spoken to them about. They love being in character. After those characters, they don't want the limelight, they don't want fame, they don't want to speak to anyone, they don't want to do press junkets, they hate the red carpet. Exactly the same. So when you're on set, you're almost playing someone else. And there's an element as well of there is this David Gandy.

And I talk about him in third person because that's the brand sometimes I have to talk about. That's the name. So yes, you are walking onto a set almost being something else. Not that I'm acting any different. And the red carpet is just not that environment. I can probably hide behind a character or hide behind a role or something

when I'm playing on that day. That's me. And it's just not something, it's strangely weird. Draining. Yeah. My other half, Steph, loves to go out, loves to go to events. She gets, you know, such a, you know, a buzz,

such gets enthusiasm for it. Actually, like, you know, she, and a buzz such gets enthusiasm for it actually like you know she and she honestly probably thought that was me like when we first met i go to an event i'm drained from people i'm i'm actually naturally a loner i could can you know we sort of joke with staff when we first went she would give me a silent treatment and i was just like steph i'm gonna tell you now i'll win at this game because I can go on for days not talking. I'm used to it. I prefer it.

Yeah, I've traveled the world and don't speak to people for days. So it was always kind of a joke between us. So yeah, and then when you're naturally, the complete opposite of being alone, I love taking dogs for a walk. I love walking for hours and then if i ever ever get sort of proper time to do it um with no one around me the exact opposite of that is the red carpet to me and your life has put you there because of your success right and you must get asked to go to red carpets all the time and events like that all the time yeah and there's nothing the actual event

um i mean again like presenting presenting an award reading off an auto cue to present it i mean i it's an honor to do it i know it's not i know i have to do it but the whole night whenever you're presenting is me on that table not enjoying that evening because i know there was one point i've got to go up there and be in front of everyone and i've done it a million times now and it still doesn't get any easier it's very very strange but um you know there you go it's easy to accept an award of course that's very interesting again again it's just a real i think for most people it'd be a real surprise that um someone who is very out there visually yeah no absolutely it makes no sense i understand that myself i tell people it makes

no sense have you ever spoken to like a therapist about that or anybody about probably should do but no it'd probably be quite interesting to know why i was and and actually might help me overcome some fears and overcome some anxiety. And it does sound very strange. Even when I say it makes no sense. And it's probably why maybe I've, you know, there's been sort of striving for not to be in front of the camera, especially with my own stuff is being OB behind it.

You know, I've been creative director to quite a few brands now, and advisor,'ve gone and helped just been on so many shoots i just said oh come on as creative director i don't need to be paid i just want to i just love being that creative element to it gentleman general asked me and the raf and brayling asked me to direct a raf film loved it absolutely loved not i wasn't in front of that and it was they were like no no we want you to be in front of it i was like absolutely not i'm director and i'll cast someone else for who i think is perfect for it because i'm not perfect i'm not good enough for that you know not good enough but i just don't suit that role so i need someone else in that again people look at me and go why would you not want to put yourself in that because i'm not i wasn't i'm not the right part for it why just because the concepts i've come up with in my head is not me

for that role i see someone else it's it's casting you know it's think of the think of the greatest role in your day you know if you think top gun you think tom cruise what if they had put someone else in that would that been the success it would be probably argue no you got us to do 50 shades of gray right i got it's a room kind of a rumor. I met the author and she said, we would love to send you the script. What did she say? And I think in my eye it got sent. And I admit I'd never read the books.

And yeah, I mean, they had, I mean, Jamie Dornan is an awesome actor. You know, he was a model. I mean, he was one of the biggest models. But he wanted to go into acting. And he's a great actor. You know, he's very, very... And there, you know, if I ever went to...

I won't go into acting, but looking at that, I was like, I couldn't beat Jamie. I couldn't be as good as that. He's very, very good. And then you look at the other levels of sort of uh of other actors and you just think it's not something i was i could i could learn i could you know sort of learn to be quite good at it but i but i could never probably you know be the best at it also heard about hercules 300 you were yeah i mean of course i mean you're always going to be asked to

do stuff like that just from the physical element of the way i look, you're always going to be asked to do stuff like that, just from the physical element of the way I look. And, you know, I'm going to be a part in it. But it wasn't anything I was... I got my being bonnet about the industry I'm in and what I wanted to achieve in this. So there's always, as I said, there's a couple of roles I would play and I would drop everything to go and play it. And there's just a couple of stories I love that I've even...

Which ones? One of them is about Winston Churchill's bodyguard, Walter Thompson. I even found out who owns the rights to it all. And it's the most incredible story. And he was originally from Epping in essex and yeah winston churchill asked him to come back in the second world war used to be his bodyguard then he stopped and he came back and just the most incredible diary you imagine the diaries of being winston churchill's bodyguard wasn't easy yeah of course fascinating because of course winston churchill

that uh i can't that they called his episodes, the black something or other, which we now probably know as bipolar. Yeah. You know, and Walter Thompson was the person that protected everyone or protected him from everyone seeing that. Wow.

So yeah, just kept everyone away from seeing those episodes that no one would have realized. Speaking of mental health disorders then, you're an have realized speaking of um mental health disorders then um you you've you know you're a an ambassador of a men's mental health charity we're working with yeah and we're also working with calm and um others for for the new brand yeah oh amazing and um your new brand has a big sort of theme around men's wellness and um what does what i guess the question is why why did that matter to you and this is does what i guess the question is why why did that matter to

you and this is also why i asked the question around anxiety because i was for you to make it a kind of mental well-being let's say a central part and mental wellness a central part of your brand and your mission um one would assume that you've had a an experience with it close to home because i think that's one way that people typically generate a ton of empathy towards the subject matter is feeling it, feeling the pain of it, whether within themselves, within loved ones.

So what was it for you that made you care so much about that? I've never suffered from depression, and I'm very fortunate that as badly as other people have. And I've witnessed it because I've dated people that were then diagnosed with bipolar. And I've seen the extremities of mental health. Me, myself, and I admit it's not happened for a while, would go into dark periods,

knowing I would snap out of it eventually but they were dark but nothing would suffice nothing would cheer you up just quiet in a dark place wanting to be on my own just not around anyone wasn't triggered by anything but just one day I just knew i'd wake up and it was gone

it's a chemical chemical reaction in your brain it's basically what what it is and yeah so i've i do understand and i can spot it in other people as well what were the symptoms of it for you those dark periods the symptoms as i said was was just nothing would make you... You couldn't snap out of it. Nothing could make you happy or cheerful. You didn't like anyone. You didn't want to be around anyone. It's hard to...

The feelings are hard to explain. It never got to any point of seriousness. I've seen people with bipolar that will be in a room for hours on end for days on end watching the same tv series because that their safety is watching that tv series and makes them a little bit happy you know because of just that safety for some reason so i've seen i've seen the the real dark side of it. And I've also, from me dating someone like that, of how hard it is to deal with it. Because you always want to try and make that person better.

And you can't in many, many ways. It's, you can talk and you have to be, you know, it's about just being patient and listening to people and trying have to be, you know, it's about just being patient and listening to people and trying to get them, you know, help, professional help. There is an element where you, you know, I can only talk about certain terrain at a point and then it comes to an expert help that they have to talk. And that's what Calm does, you know, it's, it's, it's allowing people to talk to people. And there are people that are far better. People need to listen to people.

That's the point of it. I think there's a lot of people who, even if they are talking to people, they're not listening. Fortunately, it's never been that bad. But I do understand it. Do you sleep well? No.

I heard you hadn't slept well for almost two decades. No, never slept well. I didn't sleep well when I was a child. But I did it the other way around. Went to bed early, got up, went to bed, go to bed early. And then my parents just left me be in the end. I think they were just so sick of trying to get me to go to bed because I just didn't sleep.

And I would be doing my homework at midnight, it's one o'clock in the morning. I still work now. I was up till two o'clock in the morning working last night. And that's another thing when people go, it's grafting or hard work. A lot of people are sitting down at half past 8, 9 o'clock in front of a TV, ready to go to bed.

Half past 8, I'm going to the gym. Get back at half past 9, do the shopping on the way home, cook myself some dinner, go. Doesn't stop. In between is working on the phone carrying on you know they'll you know half past 10 i'll open the laptop and get them some more work if you're always grafting as you call it and it's and you said it doesn't stop how does one become happy if they're always striving if they're always in the future it stopped during pandemic pandemic so you sorry it did stop during the oh you did during lockdown

yeah you couldn't my half the business is my business the modelling is travelling pretty much at the end of the day you have to be in locations

and did that make you happier yeah it made you happier when it all stopped to financial you know it affected me financially yeah

and we'd already been affected quite heavily in this industry by you know say the brexit as the blame of brexit now it was the uncertainty of brexit so a lot of brands were not spending money not marketing money not having not having budgets not working with the uk well they still do different things. Also, inserting in brands with social media, now, old school campaigns versus digital,

which still hasn't quite fizzled out yet. Brands don't quite know where they are within the marketing world on how to market to people, how to target people. So, it's been affected by it. And, you know,

that all kind of Brexit got signed in January, whole different world. It was sort of that December, January know, that all kind of Brexit got signed in January, a whole different world. It was sort of that December, January of, what, 2020? I was off to Milan. I was then going to Spain. I was then going to Greece. I was then going to New York.

I was then back to Milan. I had the schedule like it used to be, going off out to Russia and having been to Russia, I was really excited. I was going to Russia for the first time. And the pandemic hit. Everything got cancelled. And you're saying you were happier during the pandemic probably shouldn't have been it's I'm unfortunate I'm very very fortunate as a fact is that yes it affected me financially but it slowed you down I've invested well and I've you know it

there's reserves to point this out. Nice car collection. Exactly. That's an expensive fact, to be honest. There's a time, probably the only time I actually probably truly switch off and there's a week between Christmas and New Year. And that's when everyone, I mean everyone, virtually everyone, is not doing anything during that week.

And that's the week where I probably switch off the most. And we always sort of go away a week later after that because it takes time for people to get back. And I suppose it's not fear of missing out. It's fear of other people working and I'm not working. I should always be working. And during the pandemic, no one was working. How can one be happy with with their brain saying those

things that that kind of constant nagging to be doing something or doing more or to be striving how can that sounds like the the thief of happiness to me the thief of happiness that's a good one should be a book um probably is listen i haven't got the answers to that. Would you consider yourself to be a happy person? A positive person. Why did you avoid the word happiness? I don't know, if I'm totally honest. That's something you probably have to ask a psychiatrist. I don't know.

A happy person, a positive person. And I suppose I am a happy person in many ways. Yes, that's right. But I'd say it's just a definition of what's positive, what's happy. Is it all the same thing? So. You said in many ways. In what ways do you think you might not be a happy person? Again, good question. I, I mean, I am, I'm happy. I put myself, listen, when I'm in control of what I do now, that's why I always wanted it.

Maybe I'm in control for it, I don't know. The hard work that's where we've got to has allowed me now to be in complete control of my destiny of what I want to do. I want to renovating interiors, passion love doing it looks like a nightmare hard work for other people but I strive on it renovating classic cars the same thing it's as I said to you earlier you're halfway through you think why am I doing this why didn't I just buy a new car or you know a new build and but and then you got over but I but the accomplishment is worth it to me.

You know, that sense of achievement. That's what I'm striving for. Does it ever feel as good when you get there? Yeah, it does. Not for that long, but it does. I can take those. A couple of days. A couple of minutes. Four seconds.

Yeah. It's the same feeling as, you know we if we're going to shoot light blue or something else and you have to work hard you know in the gym to get i'm always in pretty decent shape but that's hard work to get in that shape and it's getting harder the older i get um and you dedicate a lot and you sacrifice a lot to look like that. And then there is that point of we've shot it, we've seen some of the pictures, it looks incredible, you've achieved it. And there is this evening of enjoying that.

It's then on to the next thing. What are we working on? Not next, but one of the other projects that I'm working on at the time. Have you found that in your career dark episodes where you're where you feel down sometimes follow high episodes because there's this really fascinating thing that i was reading about about gold medal depression where up to 80 percent of um olympians regardless of outcome regardless of whether they win or they don't, come back from the Olympics after training, all of that excruciating effort, and they come back and 80% of them

report sort of depressive symptoms. I've read that. I don't know where I've read that. I've read the same thing. And I could actually resonate with that in many ways. Sometimes actually achieving what you want is a bit, it's sometimes the journey is the exciting bit which is a weird thing to say it's we are on this journey of well where david ghani the brand at the

moment and it is so much hard work um tell me about that that whole inspiration the journey why why the brand yeah because it was what i've wanted to achieve for so long is have that to me to have your own brand and i didn't know what it was going to be i am a brand you know that's i say that and it makes me sound like a bit of a dick no but you are it is a brand and that's why people have to realize, you know, when I say that, we only sometimes. And then I would probably say it's 10 years. I've thought, yes, that's where one day I'd like to, I'm not saying I'm always going to achieve it,

but yes, from the creative side to being in control of that brand. I'm always in control by other brands. Even if I'm collaborating with a brand, there is still an element of control that that brand has. And I always thought, yeah, to be in complete control, complete creative control. And that's a risk.

I never wanted people to think because I have a name, because I've been in the fashion industry for so long, I could start a brand. Now people do now. It's social media. One of those elements is you can start something you can sell it immediately you've got fans followers buyers it's made the marketplace a very different place so i went back to really what i did for modeling

observation putting myself in the situation where i could learn and that was m&s the collaboration with m&s i mean sort so the David Gandy loungewear no one was doing loungewear this was what are we talking about the concept was what six seven seven and a half years ago seven years ago lounge loungewear wasn't a big concept it wasn't it wasn't something that people thought about um and of course we did sleepwear and t-shirts and everything else but it was loungewear that really took off and became third biggest loungewear in the country and was successful and it had you know 60% of me in that brand as in what I wanted to achieve on that brand but of course you couldn't get that last 40% because that was M&S and I knew where I wanted to go I knew what needed to be done but I couldn't

push it any further than I sort of could so that ended and then the pandemic hit and and locked down and one of my greatest friends Charlie T who's listened to me talk far too long about wanting to start my own thing and he started his own branding agency uh to do exactly what I wanted and he said well listen i've started this now you can be our first client but we're not talking about this anymore we've got the time i've you know as my best friend he knows i'm never really around he said i've got you here we went together i've got you in the country we've got time let's start it what's your long-term vision then for well where what's that

what's the long term what's it going to become five ten years from now i never really tell people where i've got in my head where something is going hopefully going to be there is small steps to you know to where we haven't you know properly launched you know the first shipping goes out on 22nd of october um but we wanted to do something different with Wellwear. We wanted to, to the essence of me, it was understanding, and we're calling it sort of Wellwear wellbeing, why clothing,

why does some clothing make you feel positive and confident? Why does some not? And we looked at the studies done by Amsterdam University, and I think it was a scientific element of, if we put students in comfortable, confident clothing, they're confident, that's comfortable and soft, their results are better than other people who are in uncomfortable clothing and they don't feel as confident,

or that's going in the same with business. It now why the banks big banks are saying you don't have to wear suits anymore because actually a lot of people are more positive they're a lot more open to work with they're a lot calmer it's oxytonin it's the same thing as feeling the ridiculously you know soft pillow or puppy that softness that soft jumper come you know that that thing you hold on to is oxytocin it's released into your brain it's a positive positive move and that's what we wanted to do with and we looked into this and you know there was a side to me that was fascinated by the element of it but i've always wondered you know why do i why do i hold on to that pair of jeans until my ass is falling out the end of it?

And I would try and find that pair again. I can't find that pair. And why am I wearing those sweatshirts? Because, well, it was one for comfort. And that is an element of lots of things. And the materials,

um, the breathability, the style, you still got to look stylish in it. It makes you feel confident. The fit. That's why at the end of the day, that's it it makes you feel confident the fit that's why at the end of the day that's why it was never to me about being trendy it was being confident and so many guys said to me what do i do what do i wear here what are you confident in and then we've

thought about every element of the sweatshirts and the hoodies and the t-shirts of comfort level of style of fit of quality of well-wear breathe well-wear care we've sort of put these elements into um they're washed into the clothing that is aloe vera so pajamas are moisturizing you whilst you're sleep anti-inflammatory we've got well-wear breathe and you know sort of antibacterial elements of it which is another element of we were looking at fast fashion fast fashion can be an addiction and people don't realize this addiction that you get a buzz from shopping but actually you can be hugely affected knowing the impact of fast fashion on the environment actually when that clothing lasts a week two weeks i mean i was exaggerating it lasts you know but it can do some some people

wear it once and chuck it away yeah it's actually it's what can negatively impact you okay so there's a new segment to this podcast we do what we do is we ask our previous guest to leave a question for our next guest. And I've not read this question yet, but I've just read it then as I said this. So I'm going to ask you this question asked by someone that was sat in the chair before you. Okay. They told me to ask you, what do you promise to do to make our world a better place? Okay, can I have an easier question?

What's a number of things i do for number challenges but we won't talk about that and they're not promises i suppose the promise is from well where to make people smile yeah to bring To bring back the positivity that I think is needed somewhere. I think we're in this polarised world that we are in.

It's just to say, fuck it, we're just going to make people smile and have a laugh at everything that we do and I think you can't put a monetary

value on that. So that's what I promise to try and do over the years of WorldWare. Perfect. Amazing. Thank you so much. And you're going to have to write in the book now as well. Okay.

A question for someone else. But listen, David, thank you so much for your time. It's such an incredibly inspiring and twisting story of yours. And to see where you are now and taking on this next adventure in business, I find incredibly exciting. The entrepreneur in me is fascinated by that.

And I understand the challenge of that. So yeah. Well, thank you for having me on, Sarah. I wish I could have had, yeah, you brought out some good questions. I probably might need to answer. That's what I think I want to do. I just always want to pry,

but I pry because I'm curious and because I'm like fascinated by those topics myself. It's like, there's nothing written down here that's telling me to speak on those terms. But yeah, it's so fascinating. And also your level of self-awareness, I think is just really inspiring for a lot of people. there's nothing written down here that's telling me to speak on those terms, but yeah, it's so fascinating. And you also, your level of self-awareness I think is just really inspiring for a lot of people.

I think it's, I mean, it's just, there's a therapeutic thing to talking. Of course. I mean, men don't do it. We're useless.

Um, that's mental health. The one that's, you know, is people asking you talking. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. A lot of people don't actually listen.

Yeah. Um, a lot of talking about yourself, a lot of people talking about themselves at the moment. So's a therapeutic side to this yeah exactly for me as well you know that's what that's actually how it started it was like it was like therapy for me because i was doing on my own going through my diary and just you know but um it's it's honestly amazing and thank you so much for giving us that story because it's um such an inspiring one. Thank you. Thank you.