The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - E12: Sacha Lord's Diary - The King of Nightlife

Episode Date: March 5, 2018

In this chapter I invite Sacha Lord onto the podcast to share his diary. From the halcyon days at Manchester's famed Hacienda, to building the iconic Warehouse Project & Parklife, Sacha is a true party mastermind, and as you can imagine, he's got a lot of stories to tell from along the way..

Quick one, just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to amazon music who when they heard that we were expanding to the united states and i'd be recording a lot more over in the states they put a massive billboard in time square um for the show so thank you so much amazon music um thank you to our team and thank you to all of you

that listen to this show let's continue hello in chapter 11 i promised you one hell of a guest for Chapter 12, and I have delivered. This week, I sit down with the infamous Sasha Lord. He is the man behind some of the biggest events in Manchester and beyond. He's created era-defining events such as Warehouse Project, the UK's biggest metropolitan festival in park life, and other European events like Croatia's famed Hideout Festival. He is the king of night life. He started out putting on his first events at Manchester's famous Hacienda before moving to

reopen Sankey's. After throwing a few warehouse parties he and his business partner Sam decided to put everything on the line and launch the world famous warehouse project. That first season they sold a hundred thousand tickets and the rest is history. A born entrepreneur, a party mastermind and a man of the people. Without further ado, this is chapter 12. I'm Steve Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody is listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Thank you so much for joining me, Sasha. It's honestly a bit of an honor. I think around our office, you're a little bit of a celebrity as well, because this crowd here, they go to all of your events. I've also attended many of your your events i've been to parklife probably about three times since i've

lived since in the five years that i've lived here um i've been to warehouse project on multiple occasions as well and it warehouse project was my first ever experience of a proper good rave i'd say yeah if i don't know if that's a like a sort of a negative word but it was my first like immersive party experience I had in my life so I thank you for that what I what I want to do and what I often do when I when I first meet someone um in order to help sort of hit those key moments and understand your story is set you a bit of a challenge. And that's what I want to do is give you 30 seconds to introduce yourself and to tell your life story. And what I found useful about this challenge is

it helps to hit key moments in your life that you think are sort of poignant as such. Okay. Are you up for it? Yeah. Cool. So let me just put my timer on. 30 seconds.

Right. Ready when you are okay go so born in manchester went to a good school did well at my gcses discovered the hacienda fucked up big time on my a levels because i was partying then i realized actually that's what i want to do for a living had no qualifications put a few student nights on that built up into night because thank you so which came warehouse project which came part life and then the rest is history amazing you did that in 23 seconds that's good so you you touched on your early years there yes and your school years so you were a good student that turned i was i was i was a model geek really so i was born in alchingham i went to Alchingham Prep.

Everybody that went to all, it was like a sausage factory. Everyone that went to Alchingham Prep was supposed to go to Manchester Grammar. Yeah. So, you know, I was forced through the education system, quite rightly by my parents. They wanted me to have a good education. But that's where we differed because I didn't enjoy education you know i did it did really well at my gcses but i never it's really weird and i was asked this question actually last

week when i was at school i knew and this isn't cocky or arrogant but i knew i was going to do all right for myself but i didn't know how i was going to do it. That's really interesting. So everybody in my class at Manchester Grammar who wanted to go to Oxford or Cambridge and become doctors or accountants or lawyers, and they succeeded in that, I had absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing that. And I didn't know...

I had passions. I was very fortunate to be growing up around the whole manchester explosion so that's the period of like the roses and the mondays in new order and all those bands so there was a there was a lot of music happenings at the time in manchester and i think i just got on the crest of a wave and went with that but there was no I didn't know what I was going to do I used to panic about it really yeah but that's interesting so you had that self I refer to it as self-belief that you sort of knew you were going to be something you're going to do something good right is that yeah I didn't and again I don't want to be cocky

but I never envisaged myself struggling in later life i always envisaged myself going on nice holidays and doing what i wanted and it was the opposite was never an option i honestly just got goosebumps because i've in previous chapters of this podcast i've said the same thing so i was a kid that um was i was predicted by plimstock School to get 12 A-stars at GCSE, and I was a geek, right? But then by several years down the line, I was in bottom sets for everything, and I was failing on everything. But that 16-year-old kid was convinced that he wouldn't need school anyway.

And hearing you say that kind of resonated with me because I didn't know how. There was no case study looking forward as to how that was going to play out. And that's why, you that was that was quite well in the eye i mean it sounds very similar in the eyes of the school um i was most definitely a failure um i remember the the yearbook when it had everybody's name and which university they went to and then there was just a space next to mine it was blank really almost an embarrassment but now the school invited me back to give a talk, and my face is on the Hall of Fame, which is great. Crazy.

Alongside Ben Kingsley, who played Gandhi. It's just bizarre. Yeah. And how did your parents feel when you started to flunk a little bit in school? Well, it actually coincided with them separating. Really? Yeah, so... Which wasn't anything to do with me flunking, by the way. well it actually coincided with them separating I said yeah so which wasn't anything to do with me flunking by the way

I was already on that pathway but yeah no I think they were pretty they never said it but they must have been pissed off because it wasn't a cheap school to go to you know I think there were times when they found it hard to

pay for the fees to go through the school so you know there think there were times when they found it hard to to pay for the fees to go through the school so you know there's a bit of guilt there but I think my mum's pretty proud now and you and you cited sort of a hacienda as being one of the reasons and you have done in interviews one of the reasons why you um school became sort of a second priority almost I guess well yeah so my only interest at school was art that was my only interest and i think it's because i think it's for several reasons i actually did like art um contemporary art but also it gave me the flexibility because nobody else liked art um they were all too academic so um i was in the art halls by myself which gave me the

flexibility to skive and it gave me the flexibility to skive and it gave me the flexibility to hang around mcdonald's driving down the road and and hang around the gates at the girls school there so that was that was my my niche um and i had an art and at the time i was i dressed like a geek you know if you if i said if I gave you a pencil and I was even said, draw a school geek, that was me. You know, the little box black briefcase with those gold, you know, the little numbers, the three with the locks on them. So I was in and I had this teacher called Mr. McGuinness,

Steve McGuinness. And he just said to me, look, you're conforming too much. And I remember the conversation. He said, why are you wearing that stiff too much and i remember the conversation he said why are you wearing that stiff jacket you know just just get rid of it get rid of that briefcase you know why are you conforming like the rest of the boys and then literally overnight i changed because i was thinking about this i thought why am i conforming like everyone else you know i don't want to be like everybody else.

And then it was so bizarre, I caught him in the Hacienda. Are you joking? No, which must have been the lowest point of his life as a teacher, seeing one of his pupils in the Hacienda. But actually, we had a good laugh that night, and it was the start of something. What is the... For anybody that doesn't know, what is what is the and hacienda was before my years as well so i've you know in my mind the hacienda is this it's almost like folklore i hear about it all the time but i've never i've never experienced it what

was the hacienda so um everybody perceives the hacienda to be a hugely successful club that was packed every single night to open its doors and in fact that's not the case at all it had a very good run for maybe three four years that was it it struggled consistently for money it had a lot of major errors with with the gangs and things like that but during that period and the explosion of acid house the world was looking at the hacienda and something very special went on within those four walls that's not that a small select number of people understood what was going on there um and you gray city to live in at the time and then became this music and with the music came ecstasy and there was an explosion there it was almost a release it was like anarchy under this one roof and um you know the police didn't know

what was going on they didn't have a clue just like what you know why are 2 000 people converging there uh and what is that dance that they're doing um and yeah it was weird i mean the first time i went there was in 89 how old were you i was 17 right and i went with a friend of mine called Peter Armistead, who's now a vicar. You're joking. No. And we walked in.

And actually, the first time we tried to get in, we got knocked back. Right. Because I'd heard about Hacienda and how cool it was. So I borrowed my dad's suit, shirt, and tie, thinking that was the look. Got to the door. And the door lights were like, listen, dickheads. Crank on the edge

so i revisited the following week and just the t-shirts and jeans got in and what we saw blew us away he was like what's that dance today what is that what was the dance well there's no point in doing it now because you're literally throwing your arm in the air consistently it was an acid house dance um i know i still see it today yeah and it was the first time i'd ever seen all the other clubs in manchester were playing records that would be introduced by the dj who you know would say and now you know we're going to play you know happy monday's track or new order or whatever and and then you'd hear it and then he might announce i don't last orders at the bar and he kept interrupting yeah yeah yeah and then you'd hear it and then he might announce i don't lost orders at the bar

and he kept interrupting yeah yeah and then i walked through the doors and that's this time the customers were praying to the dj so the dj was playing the records but the dj was possibly more important than the records and i'd never seen this before he was mixing it and it was like this is something really really special um and the interaction between the customer and the dj well we still see it now um but yeah it was we didn't realize until six months later that everybody was on ecstasy you know we were just two kids from manchester grandma walking around thinking this is great can't wait till monday to tell everyone so that's that that experience at hacienda sort of changed your it distracted you in some ways from the academic

side of your life and then yeah i wanted to be different at that point something something snapped in my head and i remember even up until that day it was always cool and this is like stupid things that stick in my head it was always seen as cool to sit on the back seat in the bus yeah i don't know why i don't know who made that rule up but actually when i was getting the school bus after that i don't i don't want to be like everybody else who wants to sit on the back seat and think i'm cool do you know what i might stand up for this journey i did you know it was it just said you can do whatever you want to do and be whatever you want to be so at 18 you were in um did you go to university no you didn't did you know um um what was your upon leaving school what was your your sort of first job then first job i

worked in a clothes shop in alchingham called flannels right oh yeah flannels and it was the first door and i've got quite a few Flannels now. And then on a... So I did that Monday through to Saturday. And on a Sunday, I used to do a market in Liverpool called Stanley Dock Market, selling leather jackets. And at your GCSEs or equivalent, what was your... How did you do?

Very well. Very well. Yeah, straight A's. And then what exams came after that? Was it... A-levels. A-levels? Yeah.

And I originally wanted to do art, English and politics. Right. After four months, the politics teacher said, listen, just forget this. You don't know what you're doing. So I was like, all right. And I went down to two A-levels. Really didn't enjoy English at all.

And actually, although I loved art, I only got a U at art because I didn't enjoy English at all. And actually, although I loved art, I only got a U at art because I didn't do the coursework. I loved the painting. I didn't like the write-up. I'd love reading about Matisse or Van Gogh or anyone like that, but I don't want to start writing books about them.

Right. And so you leave your A-levels with bad grades, terrible grades. You go and do normal jobs in the market stores and in Altrincham locally. How did that go from there to getting involved in the sort of life entertainment scene? Well, this was another thing. So another possible life-changing moment, the people who i was serving at flannels were all very successful people um and i remember clearly they used to turn up outside the shop that

had a glass frontage in ferraris or bentley's and i used to i'd be sat there measuring the trousers i can do turnips on trousers by the way so or your inside leg and i'd be sat there measuring the trousers. I can do turn-ups on trousers, by the way, or your inside leg. And I'd be sat there measuring them, thinking to myself, and bear in mind we're talking about 1990, so it'd be a lot more expensive now, but I'd be thinking, how on earth can somebody not batter an eyelid

spending £300 on a suit? I was earning £120 a week at know i was just i was earning 120 pounds a week at the time and i was thinking how is that physically possible and then i was thinking to myself do you know what if i had that money i'd be really sensible and i wouldn't spend 300 pounds and i said actually that's a load of rubbish it tends to be the way yeah but um so yeah again it made me quite um did it make you want nice things yes and have you always wanted nice things always yeah yeah and um now that you have money was there any sort of how did it feel to get money from from being a young guy just like me that didn't have it to then getting it how did that feel to get money? From being a young guy just like me that didn't have it

to then getting it, how did that feel? And what role does money play in your life? So I think, well, firstly, I went through, when I started my student nights off, I went through a terrible period of, you know, I'd earn £1,000 a week or something, but then I'd spend £1,100 a week. And then I went through a period of two years when i was starting off where i wasn't paying my credit cards

i wasn't paying my water bills i wasn't paying my heating bills bailiffs used to turn up and it was a nightmare and you know i'd have to move i was renting at the time so i'd move so they couldn't find me and there was all these dodging the bullets and stuff. And then there was a moment where I thought, right, well, it's time to grow up. Right. But I think when you become successful and you reach that point where you no longer have to worry about how much... When I go to a restaurant, I don't have to have a look at the prices on the menu or i'm fortunate enough if i see clothes and i don't have to look at the

price of the clothes and i'm holidays i can go everyone so but there's always annoyingly when you think you've got to the top of the mountain you never are there's always something much higher and there's always some you know there's always something much higher and there's always some you know there's always something to strive for and achieve for and i think i think um when you do succeed you notice a change in friends as well which isn't particularly very nice what's the change you've noticed in friends so you're talking about friends that were there when you were the friend the people who were there at the outset okay are my true friends you know they're my real friends and they don't care if i've got five p to my name

they don't care if i've got five millions money they're my friends but when people um now see what you do or they've heard your name or they see what you drive you get these these people these hangers on and it's just... I reached a point last year where I said, do you know what? I'm getting rid of it. I'm getting rid of everybody. I'm cutting them off.

I changed my number at home. And I must... I think I've got six friends, maybe seven, who are my true friends. And they're the people I'll speak to at home, on the home phone. Do you think what you do is quite, and being an entrepreneur in general, is quite a lonely pursuit?

Very lonely. Yeah. And why is that? And talk to me about the sort of loneliness, the lonely side of it. It comes with a lot of pressure. You know, and I walked, you've kindly just shown me around your offices here, and I've seen how many staff you've got, and it's a phenomenal success. And anybody, the normal person on the street will walk in and go,

wow, Stephen, you're doing so well, this is incredible. But actually, I know, although you may not admit it, that you have this overhead at the back of your mind and you feel responsible to pay all these people's wages. And if you don't pay all these people's wages, they can't eat or they can't pay their rent. So, you know, the more you succeed, the more pressure does come on your shoulders.

And how have you been dealing with that pressure? So just going to jump back a sec. So you're this young guy seeing these ferraris pull up at this clothing shop you've now if we go forward to the point where you're starting to to run these you know big big events the events you throw in this city and across the country to be completely honest and you know in parts of europe as well are tremendous events that when i look at what park life is i i was saying it earlier on to one of um one of my members of the team i just can't imagine the amount of like logistics and the

amount of people involved in that and the amount of people that have to be paid and you have to make sure people arrive that all of those things and throwing little events is a fucking headache for me so throwing an event of that scale for me is just something i would never like want to do um because of the just the moving parts and you know the pressure so how is how is that for you throwing a world you know renowned event like sort of park life in terms of pressure well i you know i um i've got a great business partner sam sam um and you know we bounce off each other we're chalk and cheese you know sam and i will probably find it hard to sit and have a pint and have a full conversation because we're you know we are

chalk and cheese but it works um sam deals with the more the creative um and obviously the artist booking and i'm more logistics dealing with the council the authorities um so it goes it goes hand in hand but the i mean the pressure is it's unbearable uh is it yeah no one ever sees that no no one ever sees that from From the outside looking in, it looks like you guys just have an idea and then it happens. That's the perception, right? Even when I read your story in the interviews I've read,

it was you had an idea to reopen Sankey Soap and it happened. You had the idea for Parklife and it happened. That's the only story I read. So what I'm interested in is i know those things don't just happen well i mean you read that i had an idea to reopen sanctus oak and it did it did reopen but what you don't read is the night before the salford gangs petrol bronned uh the nightclub really yeah you know it was it was bad times then but i think we come up

we do come up with the idea these ideas we've got we've got a phenomenal team around us that we've created as we've as we've grown they've also grown um so you know we can say right we want to do this and then sometimes it's it's an impossible idea that we come up with, but the team managed to resolve it. And I think certainly when things are amazing, when you put an event on and it's an incredible event and the press all brown-nosing you, there's nothing better. Forget the money side.

It's incredible. ground nosing you there's nothing better yeah forget the money side it's you know it's it's incredible but then there's the other side that when something goes tits up and all of a sudden for a two three week period you missed a bad guy then that's a pretty lonely period talk to me about tits up well 2013 we had um a guy called Nick Bonney who came to Warehouse Project when he was at Victoria Warehouse. And we didn't know at the time, but he'd been taking drugs all day long. And he became very poor at the Warehouse Project. And our ambulance took him to hospital. And he didn't make it. He didn't survive, sadly.

So normal promoters, because it's not a common occurrence, but it happens in every single city. But I wanted to take the bull by the horns, and I wanted to educate my customers and other customers to say, look, I know you're going to party, but don't act reckless because you don't really know what you're doing or what you're taking. This can happen. So I called a press conference against the advice of our PR company.

I called a press conference, held it at the Malmaison, and Sam and I were sat there with all these cameras pointing at us and all the radio stations had the little mobile phones in front of us. And my opening gambit was now i thanked people for coming um and i just wanted them to help me spread the word whether it's on the tv whether it's on the radio whether it's in print and try and educate um the clubbers who are going out these days and of course that didn't happen of course they completely demonized it um and i remember the front page of the Manchester Even News the day afterwards.

What was it now? Superclub Death Boss Speaks Out. Or something like that. Or Death Club Super Boss Speaks Out. And it was on all those sandwich boards around town. And I just... People didn't realize that when you go through something like that, it actually affects you really badly.

You know, you do question, well, and Sam and I, we debated whether to carry on the Wales budget season that season because somebody who came to our events didn't make it. And if we hadn't put that event on, would Nick still be alive to this day? The answer that I came up with was no, if he would have gone to another party anyway where perhaps at least he had a fighting chance with us because we had paramedics we had the ambulance um whereas if he had been somewhere else then you know he at least he wouldn't have been given that that chance um so yeah negatives do happen did you did you get a chance to speak to

his family or to anybody close to him at all no um no i didn't do um when um through the press we spoke but that was it but there was nothing negative from his family at all um in fact from memory i think his mom was a drugs worker so she she understood um but yeah not a pleasant not a pleasant few weeks i can imagine i can't even imagine the what that's like to to deal with and i guess it's that as you i can see there you've you've you've done a little bit of soul searching to figure out whether whether i guess you i guess the question i'd ask myself is like could i have done more is there um is it exactly the same like is it worth continuing but you know as you said these things these things happen in a

world where people party and it's correct and you know the the not annoying thing because it has to be acknowledged it happens but because it was all over the press worldwide, by the way, not locally, the Warehouse Project now has this stigma attached to it, to the average, but not our clubbers, but the average Joe on the street. That doesn't come. Yeah, that doesn't come. They think a Warehouse Project is just full of people that take loads of drugs. And I'm not going to say there aren't drugs in there

because there are in every single dance venue in the country. But you've been yourself. You know, it's a very happy experience in there. No, it was amazing. Honestly, it was amazing. And it was, honestly, I remember being there and genuinely having the thought

that I didn't know places like this existed. I didn't know you could have an experience like this. And I went back several, several times. And I still go now. And it's moved over. Back to Store Street now. Yeah. So it's gone back into the tunnel, isn't it?

Yes. When I first went, it was over by Old Trafford. Which was the venue I just spoke about then yeah so that must have been 2012 slash 13 and so dealing with dealing with that that tragedy um how does how do you carry on from there was did warehouse take some time out or did it no it didn't take any time out in fact um i went on a mission and i and i still do now. So we do random drugs tests, back of house at Warehouse Project. Right. I work very closely with the Loop charity.

And, you know, we've got hundreds of thousands, which sounds pathetic when I've looked at the figures that you just showed me on your social media channels now. But we have the ears of the 18 to 23 clubbers in the UK, and they look at what a warehouse project does. So if I can feed a message out to say, I don't know, in Liverpool there'd be these red tablets with a handbag on the front of them,

they're lethal, avoid them. We do that. I'm not scared of doing that. I know other promoters or club owners who think well if you put a message out like that you're saying these drugs in your venue and the authorities won't like it that is that's not the case actually the authorities appreciate you doing that um so talk about those moments and you reference loneliness following those moments um how do you how do you have you dealt with those tough moments in a personal way?

What's your support system like? Is there an internal dialogue? Have you had therapy? Do you go and speak to somebody? Is it your family? What's the... I'm... No, I'm supposedly a bit like a hedgehog.

Right. I just have to think it through myself. The gym helps me a lot. So I probably go five, six times a week right you wouldn't think it looking at me no i do i actually do actually look like you're a really good chef that to me is a period where um if you have a lot of tension go and punch a punch bag for 30 minutes you do feel better if you jog it's a good time to think your internal dialogue must be pretty good though so that the voice that's talking back to you when you're thinking things through must be very very

good at sort of rationalizing things and not not like self-blaming or beating yourself up or worry like worrying too much well i write a lot of lists right um there's nothing better than if you think about things in your mind you you'll start forgetting things. But if it's written down with a pencil in front of you, let's say you have five or six challenges to get through, I go through it and then I cross those challenges off. And that's the way I do it. I just look at everything on paper and try and work it out.

Right. And are you in a relationship yes married single no I mean I'm in a I've got a girlfriend oh okay okay and how is how is she found um one of the things I always find really interesting and this is again me soul-searching for myself because I continually fail in relationships I've gone from one failed relationship to another to another to another to another and I was I was almost at one point thinking that um it's impossible for me to have a good relationship whilst running a business how have you found that process of being incredibly busy but trying to compromise when you have to well I think it's it's um I said this last week

actually I I am adamant and there are many entrepreneurs who disagree with me, but I don't believe what they're telling me because you'd never know what goes on behind people's doors of their homes. But I think it is impossible to throw your life into your work and at the same time, hand in hand, have a very successful personal relationship. I don't think that's possible. I think you either decide to put all your effort and time into one or the other you can't do two you can't spin both plates

um and you know i've been um seeing sonar for eight months right um and i think she kind of likes what i do for a living and i try and share um you know it's quite people find people from the outside find it exciting what i do obviously i'm in it but but the fucking nightmare yeah that's what i yeah that's what i mean though the finding it exciting you're a successful guy you go to the gym very appealing proposition but then when you become part of it it's a different story because you're you must be tremendously you know focused at times you must have a lot on your mind you must be quite distant even when you're in the room with this person um so the experience can't be as exciting and wonderful right or am i wrong no um so my

breathing space is my holiday right so we had an amazing holiday back in january 10 days um where literally just switched off. That's it. And I managed to do that for the first time in quite a long time. And there's a couple of other holidays booked, you know, coming up. But no, she understands that my laptop always has to be open. And if I'm being completely frank, hers is always open as well. And she's always looking at whether it's misguided or pretty little thing or zara and apparently i don't understand why she's looking at the same websites every day but

apparently the clothing changes every day and then tomorrow 10 10 bags of clothes will arrive and then 11 go back i don't get i don't understand it i'm old-fashioned and and what is it about you that made you get here and other people that desire to have the life that you have and this is a bit of a sort of a self-diagnosis i guess what is it about sasha that's made sasha sit here being the success that he is versus someone else that has a desire but isn't sat where you are well i think most definitely luck has played a massive part in um you know where i am now i think being in the right place at the right time i also think as well what was that right place the hacienda okay right um as an inspiration as an inspiration yeah and then not just there you know i do reference that

a lot but there have there've been several key moments throughout my life for example working at flannels and seeing these people coming in and the nice cars and just um it gave me a kick up the ass really to to go out and just grab it um but yeah sorry what's the question basically like i'm trying to figure out what it is that makes you successful and i've read i read online in an interview that you did about your attention to detail and things like that and um being i guess being the person that protects the standard well i think i don't like to use the word um ocd right because i don't have real OCD but I'm certainly I like everything to be perfect and if it's not perfect

it really pisses me off because it means you could do better and the other thing is that I know so many people who work 9 to 5 jobs but actually have great ideas and they share their ideas with me and say what do you think about this I'm thinking of doing this and they never actually do it and I'll see them five years down the line later and

they're still doing the same job that they hated when they spoke to me about the great idea so um i did an interview last week and you know they asked me about this and my recommendation was anybody that has a good idea like yourself you know go and do it because it's not by the way because what you've done here is absolutely amazing but you're 25 and if everything fucked up tomorrow okay you'd be absolutely mortified but you're 25 you know the world's your oyster you can go out and achieve whatever you need why do you think it is that people don't end up doing what they they dream to do i think you can get i understand people like living in the safety net um of a nine-to-five job knowing you're going to come out at the end of the month with x amounts out of that x amount you pay your mortgage or your

rent you've bought your food you know what your bills are and you've got that in your pocket i think it's possibly the fear but then i do i question myself this is going deep now so i can be sat on princess parkway i've left the office i've had a ticket count we've had a great day i'm sat in my car you know i have a have um a car that sticks out so what car is it i have to tell you 100 a ferrari oh nice yes so you finally got the ferrari yeah so i'm sat there in this ferrari and the bus is next to me right and the people on the bus are looking at me and thinking you bastard but then i'm looking at those people on the bus thinking well actually you're going home now to your loved ones. You can have your dinner on the table at 6.30, and you've left your work behind.

Yeah. And you don't see your work again until 9 o'clock tomorrow. So the evening's yours, and the morning's yours, and you can do what you want, and you don't have any stress or worry because you're getting your pay packet at the end of the month. You may have the worries of paying the bills and things like that, but who's chosen the right path? Now, everybody's going to say

the guy sat in a Ferrari chosen the right path. I don't know what the answer is, if I'm being honest. I've always thought that it was just subjective. I don't think entrepreneurship is for everybody yeah um because i don't think some people would enjoy because i enjoy the bullshit we refer to it as such a negative thing but i've almost got addicted to it i've almost got addicted to the challenge and the and the and things being tough and my tough days in hot in hindsight are always my favorite ones they're the ones where I stretched

myself and I came outside of my comfort zone I don't think everybody would enjoy that experience I think that I'm a bit of a loner in the same you know way that you've kind of described it being a lonely experience I'm really good at spending all Saturday sat at my desk on my own and I enjoy that yeah and I think that's a bit weird I think I've got a bit of a sickness in that regard do you know what i mean because surely i should want to go out and see my friends and see my family no i just want to sit on my computer and uh so i just think it's a subjective thing it is i think you'll you'll reach a stage steven when um because believe it or not i know you can't tell looking at me but i am a bit older than you i know what you're gonna say so you will reach a stage because you're in the aggressive stage at the moment and you're building something fantastic i know what you're gonna say what's my gonna say all right so i think

what you're gonna say and this is what i've been told before where um other things i will i will want to i won't be able to do what I do now, basically. When I'm slightly older. And in some respects, 18-year-old Steve doesn't operate like 25-year-old Steve does. 18-year-old Steve was the aggression, the savage. 25-year-old Steve's a little bit more weathered. He likes, you know, to lay down a little bit more. But I'm still super aggressive, but not compared to 18-year-old Steve.

So when I think about what 30-year-old Steve will look like, I hope that I'm not doing this because I think that would be a very sad thing if I was still operating in the same way that I do now. Yeah. I think there's much more to life than... It'll come. And I also think, you know,

what's happened to me, I don't know how it's happened. I can only think it's an age thing but in the last two years I've noticed now I spend half my time giving advice to people so because of you know where I am what's for achieve what I've been through people are looking at me as almost an example and they're asking me questions and i really enjoy giving people my advice whether it's right or wrong i don't know um but yeah i'm doing more of these interviews and and um more talks at universities and i think people quite like the idea that i achieved something by fucking up in the first place.

Of course, yeah, because you're the underdog there. Yes. You know what I mean? And people have a very, they have like this, almost this picture of what a successful person, their life looks like. And it starts with being handed a silver spoon and then getting amazing grades and going to Oxford. And then, so anyone that shatters that perception is, they become super relatable. They become someone that is just like me and they become the role models.

And I think that's exactly what a lot of people see in you. And I see it in you as well. You know, just hearing your journey today, there's been so many times where I thought, that makes sense now because of my own experiences and my own perception of the world. On that point point if you were to give advice to somebody and this person is you when you were seven 16 years old let's say yeah and 18 years old either um what would that advice have been let's say it's 16 years old

i think you stumped me this is perfect you know i wouldn't i wouldn't have made many changes i don't think because i was going to i was actually going to say i wouldn't have done this i wouldn't have done that where i'd made mistakes but you'll know yourself every time you make a mistake you learn from that mistake, and it actually improves you to move on. So, no. Would I have said to myself, go and do your A-levels at 16,

make sure you get your A-levels? No. Would you say that to your own kid now? Well, I don't have any kids, but... If you weren't a kid. If I had a kid, no. I would much rather my kids or kids had fun at school rather than i mean obviously i don't want them to completely flunk out and you know yeah but you know i would want them to have more fun

than sit down and study all day long and then go home and then do homework all night long now go outside kick a football around just have fun if if life isn't about because a lot of when i didn't have money i made the this the foolish mistake of thinking that that was really important and i thought i wrote in my diary when i was 18 i want to be a millionaire before i'm 25 i want a range over to be my first car all these things i look back on my diary now I just think what a terrible like goal to write for the next uh seven years of your life and upon arriving at the point where um I have those things um I've now started doing a bit of soul searching I think in myself and asking what okay if if I'm not doing this for monetary gain then why am I doing this why am I building a big business and and um why am i you know making

the money what's the what's the point in it all and as someone that's you know slightly wiser than i am what's your answer to that well i mean look how many people um you're helping along the way look how many staff you've got here who are paying the bills because of you um and you want to you know you went through really you went through tough times um we're speaking before you know when you were starting off so you're proving to yourself that you can do it so you're just beating yourself um you know you're racing against yourself and i think that's that's important that you always better yourself and and is that is that for you is that the fulfillment from this

for you that i there's nothing there's nothing better than if i'm walking through manchester or london and i see somebody who was at my school and i don't have anything against those people but they're they're now lawyers and they're wearing really boring suits with a really shitty tie and i just look at them and i just think that's great you know i'm so happy and it's not i think the freedom is important as well, you're tied to this business. So I won't say it's a prison sentence, but it's a big ball and chain. But if you want to just stick a tracksuit on now and run up and down the Innsgate, you can do that.

And no one can say, Stephen, you're fired. Just do what you want to do. I don't suggest you do that, by the way, because you'd get some really weird looks. No, well, yeah. fired yeah you know just do what you want to do i don't suggest you do that by the way because you get some really weird looks yeah there's a couple of people in the office walking around in tracksuits and they're still here so it's fine within our policy is um what are your sort of personal ambitions then you've achieved so much and i think where you're at people would uh you know this won't mean much to you but people would do anything to to be in a position where you're at people would uh you know this won't mean much to you but people would do anything to to be in a position where you're at and you must get so bored of people saying

things like you're so proud of yourself etc etc because as you said it's just a battle amongst yourself you're not you're not competing against uh another you know a competitor you're battling sasha every day what is your sasha's next big battle then and his next big sort of ambition so i mean i'm really proud of my city manchester and greater manchester you know the ten boroughs and i think um you know i've worked for my first night was july the 4th 94 so this would be 24 years two years old oh i don't remember saying this i was one and a half bloody hell um so yeah i think i've seen everything come and go in the city and i've seen the city develop in a very very good way um especially

since the bomb actually that was a turning point for the city so um i'm talking about the ira bomb by the way oh okay right yeah so um I would like to give back to the city what the city has given me because the city gave me lots of chances that other cities wouldn't. There are lots of other cities that would not allow somebody to put a rave on in a car park. Sure.

You know, when I wanted to reopen Sankey Soap that had been open from 94 to 98, when it wasn't mine, the police shut it down because there was guns and there was all sorts going on, the drug dealing, and I wanted to reopen it. And I proved to the police I could do that. Most cities wouldn't allow that to happen. It's shut. It's staying shut.

So we have a very, very forward-thinking council, Labour-run council in in manchester um and they've always understood the importance of the nighttime economy and especially and i'll reference it again but looking back at the days of the hacienda when the world was looking at us as the music leaders um that was recognized how important it is for the city to to understand and support night-time economy. And that's been consistent throughout, even when councillors have come and go and changed seats. That has been recognised.

So I'd like to give back to the city what they've let me achieve. I think you'd be a great ambassador for the city. Thank you. Speaking personally, because you've got a very authentic relationship with the city, and speaking personally because yeah you've got a very sort of authentic relationship with the city and you um uh i don't think many people that um are sort of better placed to uh understand both sides of the the spectrum if you know what i mean in terms of what the city needs but also what the the people that live within the city are looking for great um so definitely have my support and thank you appreciate that I had another question which I tend to ask

everybody I meet, it gives me a bit of a perspective on who your idols are and such, if you had a dinner party and there is six seats one of them is mine because I'm cooking, the other one is yours the other four seats for the dinner party Dead or Alive, who would you be inviting

to the table? David Bowie why? He's a fucking genius. Okay, fair enough. I mean, he reinvented himself so many times against all the odds as well, by the way. I think Prince would be there.

Mm-hmm. I mean, you're going to think this is absolutely pathetic now. But I know we do have something in common. Love him or hate him, Jose would be at the table. Mourinho? Yes.

Oh, I love Mourinho. We have the same birthday. Really? Yeah. I've met him twice, actually. Have you? Yeah. What's he like?

Not what you'd expect. The loveliest guy. Really nice, genuine guy. Although I had got his daughter guest list for the MTV Awards, so maybe he has something to do with that. Bribery. So, where are we? Bowie, Prince, Jose.

I've met her before, but maybe Grace Jones. Do you still, and this is a bit of a segue because it just crossed my mind when you said about Prince and Bowie, do you still get the same excitement from putting on your events as you did when you started? No. You don't? No.

How has it changed? Definitely not. But now it's a lot more serious because they're a lot bigger. You know, you can put... Parklife was 20,000 people when it started at Platt Fields, one day. Do you get anxiety in the lead-up to the event? Very much so. Yeah.

And how do you deal with that? Is it just, again, that sort of inner monologue, going to the gym? Going to the gym and week leading up to it, red wine does appear. And you must be thinking about everything that could possibly go wrong. Everything, yeah, everything. So during Parklife, this is an example, actually, of how people think. And there's nothing wrong with this because people don't understand how it works and the intensity of it.

But one of my girlfriend's friends said, oh, we're looking forward to part life. We can hang out with you that weekend. Oh, you must think. That's like, you know, I'm responsible for 85,000 people every day for two days. 300 plus artists. You know, it is, there's literally a hospital on site.

You know, there's 84 catering units 13 stages of music and you think I'm going to hang out with you for two days are you mad? so for those two days there's something called event control which is

an arena that we set up where there's a wall of CCTV cameras watching everywhere throughout the park. And then everybody has their own desk or the statutory authority. So there's a desk commanded by the police, NWAS, the fire service, environmental health,

security, my desk. And it's in the middle of the room, you have this huge map. And when something goes wrong, we all stand around it and it's like, here's the challenge, how do we overcome stand around it and it's right here's the challenge how do you overcome it what's the worst thing that's ever gone wrong um last year was was last year was a nightmare so we had frank ocean refusing to go on until something until we'd

resolved something so he went on 38 minutes late i heard about this on twitter yeah so he went on 38 minutes late until we resolved something for him right and then do you know what it's actually it was something technical i actually can't remember what it was it was not him being a diva or anything no it was something technical and i get why he didn't want to go on because it has to be perfect for him as an artist. So because of that, he insisted still on doing the full set, which meant I'd be breaking the 11 o'clock curfew. So I had to think of something like,

how do I explain to the head of the council here now i want to go over the 11 o'clock curfew because i will get the bollocking of my lifetime and i could be fined they might not let me do this again next year and then at exactly the same time there was um a tragedy where somebody had fallen on one of the Metrolink lanes in the city centre. Nothing to do with park life. Right. So none of the trams were working.

Yeah. The tram stopped working. So at the same time, then, I had 20,000 people who had to walk back into Manchester. So out of that, I managed to convince the council that a staggered egress would be a lot better than actually kicking everyone out at the same time and 20,000 people walking back into town stagger the egress out and do that way and that and that in that moment when Frank Ocean is is you know he's not going to go on until this is fixed. This is your problem, right?

This is your problem to deal with. The buck stops with you, presumably. And I imagine... Well, it stops with me and Sam and the team, but probably because I'm known on social media, I'm the one that gets the aggro from, you know, the customer if something goes wrong. They come for me.

It's an immense amount of pressure. It really mustn't be a pleasant experience for you. It is when it's good, though. Yeah, and imagine when it's over. Yes, yeah, yeah. And what's the big vision then for Parklife? Where do you want to take it? It can't go any bigger.

Parklife will always remain in Manchester. It's a question I get asked a lot. It's going nowhere. It's the biggest metropolitan festival in the country now. And I'm really proud of that. Proud Manchester has that. So in terms of part life, it's all about the thing we can improve is the production.

So we've got some really nice bits coming in this year. Excited. Yeah, some extra special stages that just look incredible. They're very costly. So Sam went to see Kendrick Lamar last week. Oh, wow. In London, actually, the next day he phoned me up. He's like, right, that's it, main stage.

We're going to have it exactly the same as Kendrick Lamar's stage. I'm like, that's going to cost millions. So we've had to find sort of a fine line between the two to keep him happy and to keep the budget happy. But yeah, that's how we can improve on it. Your personal life, how old are you now? 46. 46.

You look really good. You look about 30. Thank you. So I guess that's you going to the gym every day. Healthy eating. Healthy. Good health. Kettle.

Kettle. But you look tanned as well which is really good that's the probably been on a holiday at some point recently or is that just a natural no well holiday but also the sunbed center next to waitrose and alching them nice yeah so this is all about honesty i would admit that yeah that's the depth i was looking for okay and my last question for you then um as someone again that is significantly more wise than I am and has been, especially within the Manchester scene, but in the business world longer than I have. What one piece of advice would you give to me as I continue on my own sort of personal journey and to sort of young entrepreneurs that are like me starting out? out um i think just do exactly what you're doing now and whatever belief you've got is quite clearly working and anybody around you will say well steven i won't do this i won't take on the 10

people because think of the wage bill and the overhead fuck them just do it because it's succeeding now and you know cut out all those negative people you know i didn't have a great relationship with my dad but he always used to say if you hang around with shit you'll end up in the shit and it's true if you hang around with negative people that want to pull you down and question everything you do you'll you'll be pulled down with them so it's that circle i guess release yourself and just surround yourself by as you have done here you know i've met your colleagues and your partners just surround yourself by like-minded people who want to go out and make a difference that would be my advice thank you so much i appreciate it no thank you um i cannot wait

for parklife this year i saw the lineup and the the reaction from the team here kind of says it all i'm of the group here i'm probably the one that's less involved with uh with music events because of time and i i struggle to make the time for it but the people that are the hardcore park life fans here have never been and i'm not just saying this to bullshit to your face like they've never been more excited and um i did a bit of a test to the guys i was like have you guys all seen the lineup they're like oh my god it's sick this year so that's a tremendous credit for you i want to thank you on behalf of manchester as well because you've brought a lot to manchester even out you know bringing the having the festivals here and having the events here brings a lot to

the wider economy as well um you've also been a tremendous advocate for the city on a wider stage, but you're also approachable, which I find really fascinating. The fact that you even came and did this, the fact that you respond on Twitter, that it's you that's tweeting, I think is something that a lot of leaders, and especially leaders within a city, could take notes from. So on behalf of Manchester, I just want to say thank you so much and keep inspiring us and keep helping put the city on the map

because I think it's going to help a lot of other young entrepreneurs to come try and follow in a similar footsteps. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening to this chapter. It means the world to me. If you can, please do subscribe to the podcast and you'll be notified the minute it's released i'm often quite bad at letting you know when it's out on

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