The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - E226: Zara Larsson: How To Stop Caring What Others Think!

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Zara Larsson is an international singer song writer, amassing over 8 billion streams across all major streaming platforms. Since she won a national televised talent contest in her native Sweden aged 10, Zara has always wanted to be ‘bigger than Elvis’ and ‘more famous than Beyonce’. Saying the goal is ambitious is understating it, but she’s single-mindedly pursued it ever since. Chasing the top for Zara is a way of chasing life. Outspoken about her beliefs and uncompromising in her art - for Zara there are no half-measures and no shortcuts. She’s in the game to be the best. Zara is promoting her new single, ‘Can’t tame her’, which is out now. Her new album is nearly ready, too. In one of the most honest conversations we’ve had with a major public figure, Zara certainly doesn’t hold back on how she got to where she is, and where she’s headed next… Topics: Intro Early years Desire to be famous Pressure as an artist Ambitions Life under the microscope Your struggles Being scared of death Public validation Being treated badly by men Advice to people who look up to you Your new album What does success look like for you in 10 years? The last guest's question Zara: Instagram - https://bit.ly/41CLRg3 Twitter - https://bit.ly/3kEkodn Watch the episodes on Youtube: https://g2ul0.app.link/3kxINCANKsb Follow: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3CXkF0d Twitter: https://bit.ly/3wBA6bA Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3z3CSYM Telegram: https://g2ul0.app.link/SBExclusiveCommun Sponsors: Huel: https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to Amazon Music, who when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And

thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. I'm going to be more famous than Elvis Presley, Whitney and Beyonce. Jesus Christ. What are your ambitions, honestly? World domination. Over five billion streams worldwide. And an international pop star. Have you always wanted to be famous? Since I first understood what fame was, the hours on top of hours on top of hours that i spent performing

in the mirror i guess it does come back to some sort of wish for validation and just love i read this quote the other day it was like those that care about clapping also really care about the booze can you relate it's almost like the self-harming thing especially i think i am looking for that like negativity if i have a bad day i think i also base a lot of my self-worth and self-esteem on how well i am performing the fact that i want to prove to people i don't know it's a bit tough isn't it yeah whose opinion could hurt you the most you've had some controversial tweets, right? Yeah. I'm not even trying.

I am that person. Take me to jail. I'm going to be disrespectful every time. That 20-second video of, like, my silly opinion became, like, national news for, like, a week. Did you like that? Ha, ha, ha! zara yes you're a you're a unique individual you think in many ways yeah really unique you know i study people before they sit down with me and i couldn't quite figure you out i've got to be honest

sometimes you know i look i look through everything I read about there early at bringing where they're from and I and there's with you there's a couple of like areas that I haven't quite figured out yet so that's what I'm going to try and do interesting but I'll but I'll ask you the question based on the person sat in front of me today what do I need to know about your your earliest years your earliest context to understand this person that sat in front of me? Like how I was as a kid, basically? Yeah, just give me all of it, the context, the environment, the influence. Always a show girl.

Yeah? Yeah, I've always loved to entertain my family, like my friends, just being, you know, like a small person. And just always loved having people yeah i think they entertain them like having them watch me i don't know i think that's why i'm an artist today it's just a part of who who i've always been and who i am as a person. Loves to laugh. Quite an unserious kid, I would say. Very, I don't know if I would love to have myself as a child you know didn't really listen very stubborn yeah but i think quite funny to be around yeah it's hard it's yeah yeah definitely i would say

always been quite confident. Attention seeker? Yes. Seeking validation? Yes. You know, when you say you were entertaining people, what did that do for you when you were younger? Who were you trying to entertain? And when you entertained them, what did that do for you?

I think even just myself. Or maybe I was thinking about, you you know myself in the future of because I'm I'm thinking just to the hours on top of hours on top of hours that I spent just performing in the mirror and as I was doing that I guess I was also thinking or imagining like a crowd you know um was looking at Beyonce or Christina Aguilera or Whitney and Celine. Like those were my four girls growing up that I just really, really wanted to be like. And I guess it does come back to some sort of, you know, wish for validation and. And just love, and I just crave that a lot more than most people which is funny you know

because i feel like my mom and my dad have always been giving me a lot of love a lot of attention they've supported me throughout everything um always been there for me looked at whatever i'm doing you know so in the like hobby psychological way of, like, analyzing myself, there's no real reason for it, if I would put it that way. I guess some people just have a lot of energy. And, you know, there needs to be some entertainers in the world. Why you? I don't know.

I just really enjoy it. I really like it. I really like for people to feel good. I also think there's like a fine line between being a people pleaser and um entertaining others by being yourself if you know what i mean like i've never really been scared of conflict i don't feel like that's true um i don't really mind stating my opinion always been very opinionated I remember thinking that my parents never filmed me and my sister growing up you know on like video cameras and that we have such little like documentation of my childhood and then when my parents were moving to Rome we found these like

boxes of videos and it was so fun to see how you know how it's like in front of our table dinner table it was just a kind of like the living room just could have no furnitures because that was the stage and after every dinner it was like showtime you know and uh it's just it's just a natural part of who I am I think there's a bit of a, it almost seems contradictory that someone like yourself could be so clearly confident, but also a people pleaser. I know, isn't it? Do you know what I mean?

You think of people pleasers as being slightly low confidence and that search for validation is, you know, comes from them pleasing someone else. But we have two words in Swedish I don't know if you guys have this but it's like I guess it's more confidence versus self-esteem in a way you know so or um yeah like you can have self-confidence like I'm very confident in what I do in my work I know I'm'm talented. I know I'm good. I know I can perform. And professionally, like all of that. But then maybe the self-esteem part.

You know, I don't know. I don't know. What do you think of yourself? You know, I think I think it goes up and down like it does for most people. I have certain days where I feel like I'm on top of the world. Nothing can stop me. I am unbeatable. And then other days where I just feel very small and fragile. And it goes a little up and down. But in general, you know, I think I also base a lot of my self-worth and self-esteem on how well I am performing in my professional life. Maybe they're a bit linked.

And if I wasn't doing what I do as a singer, I would probably still be in some sort of public eye. Maybe acting or maybe just having a podcast. Or I don't know, like something to entertain people still. Or like connect with people. I think you'd be a great co-host. Co-host? Oh, amazing, yeah. I don't think you'd sell for being a co-host would you yeah I'm like given my I want my show um when I when I was reading through everything about your your earliest years I was I was almost

looking for some incident or something that had caused this desire for validation and I just couldn't find it your parents seem lovely yeah it seems like you grew up in a you know great home yeah it is funny isn't it have you always wanted to be famous yeah since yeah actually i think since i was since i first understood what fame was i mean i always said like i'm gonna be more famous than elvis presley jesus christ i know right that's a high expectation yeah like i know and actually now when i'm older i i don't think anybody wants to be as famous as elvis presley or more famous like it definitely i obviously haven't reached that point in my life but i do think it is also a form of prison. Like, you can't actually really go out and meet people and, like, connect with people because they already have a version of who you are in their head.

Like, you're never meeting someone for the first time, you know? And how you, like, manage, just go through life. I also hate being like misunderstood. And I hate when people, funny enough, like have, you know, opinions about me that really isn't connecting with the person that I am. But they would never know that because they don't know me and just having i think the older i i get the more i realize like there's also a lot of things that are happening when you're as famous as elvis presley that isn't very nice you know what's how are you misunderstood just like it's not all glitter and glamour it's not all like playing for a sold out uh arena or stadium and then going and

like putting on a nice outfit and then you go and like do a red carpet like there's there's other things behind that that might not seem as fun like not being able to have a private life just to start there you know or somebody always having opinions about your private life just to start there, you know, or somebody always having opinions about your private life. Because also, you know, especially in this time, like back in the days, at least there were no social media or anything like that. And these times I feel like we have this pair of social relationship with followers where they feel like they would know who you are because they follow you on like tiktok or instagram or twitter where you write your opinions about stuff or just like i had a great bacon sandwich for breakfast or like personal stuff you know you would never hear

whitney houston be like post a selfie you know but now because you kind of have to do that to connect with people and be like, I'm human, like that part. Wasn't a thing before. And also there's pros and cons with that, I think, because. I think there is a really nice part in and being relatable and like connecting with your audience and having that sort of relationship but there's also something really sexy about like the the artists back in the days that were they were untouchable that's why they were superstars you you you couldn't get on their level like you couldn't like hop on their live and be like, I love you. You like your makeup looks great. Like you couldn't do that. And I guess the most artists that come in this time,

I feel like maybe like Beyonce could be like the last generation that doesn't have to like be on TikTok,ok for example you know i don't know but i also love sometimes i'm like i'm gonna be mysterious but i like it's not who i am i'm not very mysterious i am quite um i do like to show who I am. And a part of me like would love to be a YouTuber and just vlog. Like, hey, come with me on a promo date. Like it's something about that that I do love,

but it creates like a little, maybe strange relationship sometimes with your followers. But I feel like my followers are quite funny and that we have good banter even that journey of understanding who you are and having the conviction to be yourself how's that journey been especially when you're you know you're in the industry you're in there's a lot of temptation to be someone else yeah look like a certain thing to behave in a certain way what's that journey been like from you since you were like five years old dancing in the front room to where the person sat in front of me now 25 years

old journey of like being authentically who you are and i don't know i think you know life is like a chain of events or you do get inspired by or just like influenced by a lot of stuff just living your life you don't have to be in the public eye or like in front of a camera at all obviously you're going to be influenced by the people you meet and what you see and just how you can even see how like just the lingo of people just sorry for speaking about tiktok so much but just like how people are talking the words they're using that might come from a certain group of people at first but then they bring it online and it becomes like saturated and then all of a sudden everybody starts speaking like that

and everybody starts wearing the same thing and everybody starts like all of that so like i think i am struggling yourself in that no but i don't feel like I don't feel like I've lost I'm more lost or less lost than anyone else in my age who are just like navigating through life um and then obviously you know I am being um I guess you can say judged but like people will have opinions about maybe the stuff i'm releasing like my music and stuff like that but it's really hard to say i think i don't feel like I've, I've lost, um, myself very much. I have, I feel like I've mostly been like positively influenced most times by stuff. You know, earlier you said how your self-esteem can sometimes be attached to your professional performance. Yeah. That's a dangerous game to play. I know. You know, cause if you're, it's like being on a game to play i know you know because if you're it's like

being on a roller coaster where you you know because life is going to go up and down and if your self-esteem goes up and down with your like hits or your like records or your streams yeah that's not you know no it's not a good thing and i felt like i really felt that when i was releasing my um last album poster girl that's also why it took like four years between So Good, which was my first international album, to Poster Girl, because I was so pressured

into having like the same amount of streams and the same amount of like commercial success that So Good had that I just in a way forgot that i love music and like i think it's so fun and i'm doing it because it brings me joy and i i lost that a little bit in the process of making poster girl because i was just so scared of like not only myself that i would you know do a better album than the one before but like what will other people think of me if i don't perform as well like that was a really big thing that i had in my mind and now when i release that it's just kind of like

you know um and now i'm back to making this album which i feel like it's a lot more fun or i've had a lot more fun creating it because the pressure of it you just got to remind yourself at all times that it's like like you say like my worth even as an artist isn't based on um numbers although it kind of is you know it's like a tricky like of course i want to perform well like i want to be a mainstream artist i want to sell i want to stream um but yeah my worth as a person is not necessarily tied to that but you just got to differentiate like the professional side and the private side not easy but it is hard yeah it is hard when such a big part of my identity

is being an artist specifically you know like singing and like because i've been doing that for such a long time that it's it's just like in my dna and who am i if i'm not like performing or singing who are you if you're not performing or singing um i don't know never tried it you're a vlogger yeah yeah in my mind for sure no i think um I'm like really really lucky though like I have a really good family and have really good friends and uh in general like I'm not a sad person I'm very happy I really like my life but I've been doing this professionally like releasing music since I was 15 so that's like 10 years which is kind of crazy

considering the fact that I'm I'm 25 and I've been doing this for a decade and um it's just you know a part of who I am like I don't I don't know what I would do or be if I didn't do music what age were you when you would have responded to the question what you want to be when you grow up with the answer uh I I maybe when I was like four or five you know you would have responded to the question, what do you want to be when you grow up with the answer? Maybe when I was like four or five, you know, you want it to be like an ice princess. Yeah. Maybe.

But after that, it was just, I want to be a singer. From what age? Five. Yeah. Five, six. And I think it also went hand in hand with the fact that singing is so easy and it's almost like a primal thing that humans have been doing throughout I guess history of like mankind you know what I mean like singing is such a it's almost like a spiritual thing almost specifically like in a

choir together with people like going to concerts or even sporting events and you sing this chance and it's like uh it's something that's happening in you when you sing and i think it's also really easy to appreciate someone singing um and i mean it's harder to be like a really really good dancer at five or like i'm gonna do a shakespeare monologue and i'm like i'm gonna prove to you why i'm so good at acting at five but singing if a child have a really good voice and everyone's like oh my god you're amazing and like you get the attention from that from a really early age because you're just naturally good at it then i guess you just keep going with that is there such a thing as parents giving too much validation that i don't know i don't think so

no i don't think so what do you mean would they be like shut up no but just like too much they'd be like you are a star you're amazing the grand walker and then you go into the world and you're like what the fuck why aren't you treating me i mean that's like watching some of the you know idol or x-factor auditions and you're like wow you have been told by your parents that you're really good your whole life and then they go on the show and they don't perform that good you know my mom and i we we joke about that sometimes that she's like you know when i grew up that she was just thinking like is she really good or is she just my child you know like it like is this good or do i just love you so much

and i think you're like the most amazing person how how um you said elvis earlier on but at your very core right like when you're alone in the shower or whatever you're thinking about your ambitions in life what are your ambitions honestly world domination no i want like a number one i want like number one album i want like a you know what my main goal is stadium tour yep you already know it you read about it yeah it is because that really proves like people want to come and experience you live and there is something about a live performance that you know if i could choose one thing about this whole thing as being an artist it would be like to perform to perform live for sure so to summarize your when you say world domination do you mean that like what do you like what is it you want you want a stadium tour i get that you want a

number one album in the u.s everywhere everywhere and then what like is that well then you then be happy and then we take the helicopter and we fly out and then you're gonna fly out i don't know i think who do you want to be like when you think about levels beyonce beyonce but also you know coming back to that like like how is it being what is it like to be beyonce, what is that life like? I don't think we even can imagine that. I honestly don't know. Because also, there's something about, like, I don't know. Imagine being just, like, on top of the world and being, like, the celebrity of celebrities.

And everyone's just, like, think even even people who are not specifically like her fan would be on their best behavior if she walked into a room you know i honestly don't know but there's also a beauty in like maybe i'll never get there but there's something about having a goal and a dream and working towards that and then maybe in 10 years i'll just like change my mind and i'm like i have a hard time to see that happening but it's not impossible maybe i'll feel like i've done everything i want to do in music and maybe i want to move on to um vlogging vlogging yeah you know people often find it difficult to express such grand ambitions because they're scared about what people will think of them yeah what's your what's your thoughts on that you know it's it's it's actually quite refreshing for me to hear to

someone go someone go i want more domination because a lot of people don't have the courage to say that out loud yeah because it opens you up a little bit right it does yeah I guess it does but you know what's the worst thing they would people would say like it's never gonna happen like okay we'll see it's not that deep and I think also you know what it is though one thing that takes away a little bit from the fun is that I think I'm a little entitled to success and I think you know if I ever let's say get a Grammy I won't feel like oh my god I can't believe this is happening it's more like finally you know like oh took took long enough that's what I I think I would feel more than like,

I never in a million years could have dreamed that this would happen. No. And. What you're saying is right now, as you sit here, you believe that the Grammy is already basically one. You deserve it already. It's just a matter of time.

Yeah. You believe that at your core, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just a matter of time yeah yeah you believe that you'll call you yeah yeah i think it's just like maybe just a matter of of putting in the work and just keep working and working and working and working and working because what you really need is grit no grit right not grits just grit yeah it's not like the porridge no no no grit and you just need to work for it and you need to i read this book um about grit i think it's called grit and uh they were studying

a lot of like the the the students who went to the military a military school here in the u.s i've read about the study yeah yeah yeah and um i've read about it in my upcoming book do i ever see you i've read about the exact thing you're about to recite yeah yeah so like you know the students who graduated because it's a hard you know this it's like a really hard what is it like a training camp yeah basically over a couple months or something they're not like the strongest or the smartest per se. They're just the people who never give up. And that's it.

But I do think it's interesting to think about, you know, talking about like success, that you're only successful if you do something for the rest of your life. Like, let's say I in 10 years, I do change my mind and I genuinely want to do something for the rest of your life. Like, let's say I, in 10 years, I do change my mind and I genuinely want to do something else. Then it would look like, oh, but she failed at like being an artist or she failed at, you know, reaching her goals because she choose to do something different. And it's only success or like a relationship with a person.

It's only successful if you're together for the rest of your life. When in reality, like that relationship or the job or the interest could have served its purpose for that chapter of your life and that amount of time in your life. And it's not less successful because of it you know it just means that you have another purpose now yeah if that makes sense makes perfect sense yeah on that point of success do you consider yourself to be successful as an artist now like if i said to you do you got to tick a box yes or no and the question was I am a successful artist yeah yeah yeah because like I'm doing what I love every day and I live off of it

it's like being in the NBA of artists you know a lot of people wants to be artists and they work really really hard for it and they still have to have like a little side hustle or they have to I don't know just do whatever to make ends meet because their real passionate life is not like sustaining them enough to be able to like pay rent and that so in that sense I feel like I am successful there's just obviously levels to it but in general like I consider myself extremely lucky and I'm I I am very thankful for and like happy about where I am it's just a long way to go to feel like oh I made it I don't feel like I've made it I have a lot yeah but I'm doing what I love and that's a success.

What would you, what would it take for you to feel like you've made it? Maybe I'll never feel like I made it. It's a blessing and a curse. I don't know. Honestly, maybe I'll never feel like I made it. I'll reframe the question then what if we come back here in you know 10 years time you're okay like when I do my stadium tour then you'll feel like you've made it yeah I think so you've just finished your stadium tour you're 35 years old you walk back in here and I go uh-huh do you feel like you've made it Zara yeah yeah yeah I think so if you were to to go the other way 10 years in the other direction back to that 15 year old girl

that released that single uncover and you could just whisper in her ear some advice about life success and anything that she might have needed to hear what would you whisper life and success for i would say leave him leave him yeah oh you're with some he's not very he sucks don't spend your years on him and then i would say just just don't don't overthink stuff you gotta whisper it don't overthink stuff it's gonna be great because you know what in the very beginning of when i started to release music that's what i did and like we just threw shit at the wall and then some some was sticking on there and others didn't and um the songs that doesn't go well like nobody remembers them but the songs that do really well people remember them and I think it was also easier because on the scale

that I was on as a 15 year old was just being signed in Scandinavia um it was a lot it felt more like local it felt easier it wasn't this big machine that i had behind me where everything was supposed to you know internationally like have a proper rollout and all of that we were just like let's release some music you know and so specifically i would just i feel like i've said specifically like five times in this interview i don't normally use that word i think it's just the word of the hour anyways uh i think um i coming back to like from so good to poster girl like that time just just release it like it's not that deep just release some music have fun just have fun and what about in terms of like happiness generally out away from your work what

what advice would you have given to that 15 year old girl um just keep doing you you're doing great keep pissing people off for some reason it's like i had i used to have a blog actually and whatever i wrote whenever i wrote stuff it would always be national news like i just said the other day like we should talk more in the cinema and what do you think about that we should talk more in the cinema just like react more like talk more i don't think that's the place for that okay that's what most people thought yeah because you can't watch something but you can whisper you like i'm not okay so it in my video that i did i did like a little 20 minute video no 20 second and uh i was like you know i feel like we should react more like we should chit chat and like but then you can't hear

what's going on in the movie because if you think about it 100 people are all like yeah did you see that? You're not going to be able to hear a thing. But you're watching the same thing. That's what I'm saying. Like you're in this room together. Socially, you are watching the same thing. So naturally people should react on the same. They won't, they won't they?

Because they'll be like, oh my God, that looks like Dave. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's funny that we have this conversation because like when you have a conversation like this, you say your opinion i can say my opinion but on internet it's like a one-way street so i can say one thing and then people are like ripping out their hair what i wanted to say about that was that that 20 second video like my silly opinion became like national news for like a week straight in sweden

i had everybody talking about it politicians you like that oh my god smoking laugh but um a little bit yes but also part of me like like why is this news but it's funny like specifically specifically, here I go again. I think in Sweden, actually specifically Sweden. Specifically? Yeah. It's ever since I was like 15, for some reason, everything I said became like a national debate.

And that's a little strange, I think. Like, why do you care so much about what I think? I'm just a girl. But keep caring. Yeah. And I do think it helped me reach the success of, because some people, like when I started started out some people just kind of knew me as being a very opinionated person more than an artist and you know people outside of sweden

might not think of me as such which is kind of nice in a way because i i want to see and i want people to see me as an artist first but yeah i think it's like a talent in itself it is and also still entertaining i'm entertaining the people you've had some controversial tweets right yeah i'm not even trying i think i knew like okay i know my take on the cinema isn't gonna be like the majority will agree but i never thought it would be like i saw a couple of tweets you did yeah but yeah i wasn't sure if you liked men oh here i am it was what about you being a man hazer which you uh-huh i saw that i thought yeah i think like at least it gets people talking and also maybe i am a bit dramatic online and me saying like i fucking hate men when you compare that to someone saying women deserve equal pay

then that doesn't look as bad next to my tweet about hating men. So in a way, I feel like the extremist of certain topics, like leaning that way is also doing just as good for whatever movement. You know what I mean? And I think also, you know know today it isn't that controversial because i think we all know what i meant by that with you know toxic masculinity and like the patriarchy in general and and all of that um what do you struggle with like in in general in general like what what do you like what are your problem like what are your challenges in life? Getting out of bed. No.

Yes. Oh, you mean like the alarm clock is annoying? Yeah. I'm a snoozer. Okay. Okay, let's think about it. Let's be serious. I just am very, I have a very bad memory.

So I don't really, which is on good and bad terms. Like whenever I would have a fight with somebody, I just need to leave the room and I kind of forgot about it. When was the last time you cried? I cried on the way to, it was like maybe a week ago I cry every day but just like like a soft cry you know just like you see something about maybe I'm saying like a proper cry like you know yeah this is weird so I was listening to goodbye my lover by James Blake and I was imagining my boyfriend dying.

You were imagining? You're like, how sad is that? How did he die in this imagination? Maybe cancer or something. Like a car crash. Like something maybe sudden. And that made you cry? It made me cry really, really, really bad.

I also was like three edibles in but i was on the airplane and i i've heard that you cry easier on airplanes but in in like a cry out of like like a real cry that has something to do with real life not me imagining tragedies um no you know what if i cry a real cry it would probably be about imagining someone in my close circle so i call my mom like periods to period depending on like where i am in my headspace but i can call her like three times a week and just cry about the fact that she will die one day you have i was reading through some things about this you have an interesting relationship with the concept of death i do you do don't you i don't know i read that you were scared of death yeah aren't we all no okay i don't know if i'm

scared of dying myself but i'm very very scared of the day where somebody that I love dies. I might even start crying now. Like it's, I've never experienced that. I have experienced my grandma who passed away, um, not too long ago, but weirdly enough, like I felt like it was going to happen. I kind of knew it when we spoke on the phone for the last time. I just knew like this is the last time I'm speaking to her. And I could just hear like she was she's just done. She was she was 90. No, she lived a long life.

And it was like a running joke in our family. Like, is she going to make it christmas for like the past five years um but someone yeah i think that's my biggest nightmare for that to happen knock on wood you know um when you're getting so much public feedback and you are someone that you know cares about validation often the people that care about i read this quote the other day it was like those that care about clapping yeah also really care about the booze can you relate yeah i wish i didn't but it's the truth like i really do if you open the door to caring what the external world thinks, you're opening it up to both criticism and approval.

Yeah. Anxiety can't be that far away. No. And I can try to tell myself like, oh, I'm fine. But I think, you know, I work fine with it. But then sometimes I do wake up you know in the morning and I'm just like yeah and I'm like I have to check my mentions on Twitter and I'm like okay he's fine like it's it's chill it's cool I have this yeah it comes and it goes it's not always like that. But I do, I would say I care, of course,

like you say, if you want to read and hear the good things, even if you don't want to read the bad things, you see them as well. And it's almost like the self-harming thing you know it really is like especially I think I am looking for that like negativity if I have a bad day just to for my insecurities to like be confirmed like see I told you you suck you know it's weird and then you want to read a hundred good ones to like no i think i'm good like i think i'm a good person and like i think i'm talented and then once once you've read those

hundred you know comments or whatever then you're back to like right but where's the bad one because this can't be real and then you're like there it is see i know i i, I know, I know. And it's just like a vicious cycle. And it's really toxic. And I think I do that a lot more when I feel low. If I feel good about myself, then I don't really care. Because I know I'm good. But then when you're like having a bad day, that's when you get sucked into that i

think the toxicity do you care what people say i think everybody cares i know 100 they do i i think i've as i've got older i've just put things in place to just keep myself out of the way and yeah you know because what you you know i i just you just hit me like what you want is not to be like oh i go in and i read my mentions or quotes or whatever in comments and i look at them and i don't care you want to get to a point where it's like i don't look at my comments or my mentions because i truly don't care you know that's where i'm at yeah which is like so I I look at comments on YouTube yeah I don't go near TikTok I don't go near Twitter my Twitter mentions it all off so I can't see anything anyway great uh I look I look on LinkedIn have you ever typed in your name I

don't do that anymore yeah nope yeah I don't Google my name I don't know but it's also like I genuinely do not yeah but it's like they say you know you can take criticism or whatever from people in the arena yeah but people who are watching you on the stands like they're not even in the playing field so why would your opinion about something that you have no experience with or knowledge in really matter? Whose opinion could hurt you the most? Ooh. But this is where it's weird because for some reason,

it's like the stranger's validation that I want to get because I know in my life, I know my friends like me and I know my family like me and I know my friends like me and I know my family like me and I know my boyfriend likes me and I know my sister, like those, the people and people I work with, I know they care about me. So the fact that I want to prove to people I don't know that like-

It's a bit fucked up, isn't it? Yeah, or like, I think it's, I think it's, because I truly have the belief that if I would be put in a room with anybody, anybody, I'm talking like whatever age, political background, cultural background, like anything, I know that we would find some common ground i think all people could you just got to find the means to like get there um but that's really hard to do online but i know it's there i really do believe so when you turned 18 you you talk about

how things kind of changed in terms of the way that particularly male figures treated you. Yeah, I think specifically like one person, but I don't know. You've always heard those stories and then you like experience it. And it's just like, wow, this is real life. Like it's actually. Experience. Yeah. Sorry. Experience what? You know, just like advances or comments and invitations where like, it's also really strange that being 18 is

not really being grown in a way. And it's really creepy that it took for me to turn 18 for them to just switch up like this, right? Because what you really wanted was just for me to be legally available. You know, like what you're saying is that if it would have been 16 or 17, you would have done the same thing, basically. So just like that turning, but oh hold up now that's very creepy and very weird and sometimes i wonder

are you even interested in like a sexual thing or are you just doing a weird power play on me right now you know i don't know and it's it's a very sticky situation to be put in and this happened to me even though i have an amazing team and i have really really good people around me and i could just imagine what people who doesn't have that, what they would feel like are either being pressured into or, you know, because it's always a power play, I would say. Firstly, because the people who are making the advances are like 30 years older. Just that in itself is a very strange thing and then you know they're mostly in a power position of you know they have like a solid position in the industry or they have a title and they have they know this person and they know this person and i feel like also because the the the big like positions are being whole held by men they are probably the ones who are making those advances i don't think it happens

as much for young boys with women because there isn't that many women in those seats you know what i mean maybe it could have happened if it was like women in those seats you know what i mean maybe it could have happened if it was like women in those positions but i feel like it's a non-problem because it doesn't exist like that many women on top you know at 18 did you know what that was yeah yeah or what do you mean did you you know because when someone makes an advance they can do it in a very clear way or they can do it subtly or whatever and it's sometimes hard no i think i think they also want to make sure you know oh really you know yeah for sure it's showbiz baby no honestly it is it is very strange and i think because and this is you know pre-me too and all

of that and i think um a lot of people are a bit more careful with how they're acting and what they're saying and they're just simply not in those positions anymore because a lot of people got fired you know yeah have things changed i think so yeah um i mean you know what i also surround myself with a lot of women and yeah I feel like I I think I just kind of recently started to go to the studio without having somebody there with me and they didn't necessarily they weren't in the room with me so to say but they were sitting in like the green room area or I had like my manager or I had a day to day with me who would always be close and near um but now I feel like I I know I've met I've done the speed dating enough in like the studios to know who I like to work with who I trust who I

feel good around with but now I'm like 25 so I go around by myself but for a very long time I used to have either that or my mom would always be there so I felt like I was still protected and still those things can happen so you know like I said I can only imagine what it feels like for young girls who are just like starting out who wants to have a shot and uh it's just so easy to be taken advantage of there's going to be a lot of um young kids looking up to you watching this now listening to you and then they'll be looking at you thinking oh my god she's she's a superstar she's so so successful. Yeah, you think? Yeah.

In terms of what you've learned over the last decade, like what do they need to know about how to become a star? How to become a successful person in whatever field they're pursuing? Is there any principles that you've garnered over the last couple of years about like how to get to here and how to get here happy? You just gotta do what you love.

I love what you do. I truly think so. Like if you choose something that you love to do and that feels good for you and you do for yourself, then work doesn't feel like work. And like, I know I work hard, but me and my manager, we always joke about this. Like when I go, I'm at a full day of promo today. And it's been like, you know, you go back and forth to places.

And then when I lay in bed tonight, I'll say to myself, crazy, I didn't do anything today. And that's what it feels like. Like, it doesn't feel like work.'s crazy so and then just to have grit like we talked about just keep going there's no stopping and uh when you do something like i've had songs that i loved that i released like from poster girl like one of my favorite songs is Love Me Land. And I remember thinking like, banger, number one everywhere. No, flop. But I fucking love it. I think it's one of my best songs. And I love the video.

I love everything about it. I love the song. I just love that song. And when you release that, something you're proud of, you can't lose. No matter what other people are saying about it. It's like, this is good. So the only time you would lose is when you release stuff or do stuff that you don't really want to do, that you don't feel 100% comfortable with, and something you can stand for, and then it flops.

Like, that's a loss you know but it's not even a loss if you release something that you that you don't even like and it becomes a success then it's like a win but you never know if that's gonna happen so that's the gamble I think just do stuff that you love I read this quote and it said that um Zara sometimes questions whether she really wants to be a performer just because she's been telling herself that she wanted to do it since she was a kid. Yeah. That seems to sit in contradiction to the person I feel like I've met today that was very clear that she wanted to always be a performer.

Well, I think I just don't know anything different. So sometimes it's like, what if I would have, what if I would have even more fun, like editing movies, vlogging? What if? I guess we'll never know. I don't know. Or maybe we will in 10 years. But it's almost a part of my DNA at this point.

And I do question like, have i just put myself in a box since i was a little kid because i was just happened to be good at singing from a very early age and that just naturally became my you know way in life but then you know i go on stage and I just feel so happy. It really does bring me joy. What is that girl called? When she's like picking up an item of clothing and she's like, does this spark joy? I'm so surprised you'd expect me to know.

You think I'm the guy? What's her name? Marie Kondo. No idea. So, you know, every item in your life is supposed to bring you joy and everything you do is supposed to spark joy so that's how I feel with my music it's like does this spark joy yes it does you've got an album coming out haven't you yeah does this spark joy yes it does does your new album spark joy? Yes.

It does? Mm-hmm. Tell me about this new album. It's super fun. I feel like it's a lot more dynamic than Poster Girl. And it has some ups and it has some downs. Yeah, it was really fun making it. I felt like we did it over a period of time with like a small bubble, like a group of people that just became. You just get to know each other really well, think and then from that instead of having to do these speed dating like sessions

you uh you build something over a longer period of time and you you get to like try out different things and see what works and what doesn't work and then at the end of it you have an amazing collection of songs so you could just be like that song that song that song that song how do you know like where do you get the conviction from to pick those songs because there's going to be a lot of other forces saying that song like the creative conviction yeah that's true i do trust the people i have around me and i really trust my instincts like i think i have a good ear i really do think sometimes when you listen to a song it's like why you add a song to your playlist you know you hear a song you're like wow that's really good add um and it doesn't have to

be harder than that you don't have to like overthink and uh analyze what have you learned about that though because you know i've read about uncover uh-huh right that wasn't a good example of you following your own yeah creative conviction right totally and um that happened to a lot of songs like nobody wanted to really really lush life in america they were like which happens to be one of my biggest songs today never forget you wasn't wasn't that exciting they didn't really like that one and like also other songs um i remember being a little unsure of symphony i was like i don't know will that pop off like i don't know and that also became one of my biggest songs so i think it goes both ways but when i really like something i i really like it and i think you just got to believe

in yourself and um in your taste because if i would just do stuff that i didn't really like or do stuff that i didn't like as good as something else then might as well have somebody else do it I guess at the end of the day because I still want to do what I think is good I want it to be me um but then you're also battling with like coming back to Beyonce and like you know if you want to live this life in fame and and the limelight and why are you doing are you doing it for fame or are you doing it because of the art you know and then is why are you doing it is the i think a little bit of both and um because you can always have the the art but the fame is not necessarily guaranteed is it totally so i think yeah if you're happy with what you release and you're like really proud of that

that's really what matters at the end of the day you know what i think you're the first person i've ever had on this podcast that would honestly say and openly say i'm sure the truth is pretty much everyone yeah would have said it but i don't think they would have been so honest i think you're the first person to say that you're doing it for fame yeah i think both but even no one would acknowledge that the truth is they are of course unless they wouldn't be like in this chair you're a liar yeah of course you wouldn't be on a promo run yeah you know what i mean if you really didn't care your honesty is quite refreshing yeah i think it's necessary also for um what think that's why i'm like a happy person like i am very honest and i think i analyze

and i think a lot about like my thoughts and my um myself and why i do certain things and the purpose of certain things and if you're just like honest with yourself about things then you're not like you're living in your truth and i think that is the ultimate way of of living and then i can know sometimes like why i'm doing certain things but at least i know that and like i am honest with myself about it. I guess, I guess that's what it is. Your newest single, Can't Tame Her. Yes. I've been listening to that in my little office over there, spinning it over and over again, just to get a feel.

How's it going? So far, so good. Yeah, I feel like it's really fun to start off the new year with that song. It's really fun to start off the new year with music in. It's really fun to start off the new year with music in general, but that one is really like, you know, it's a, it's like a little eighties banger and quite different from the rest of the

album. I would say all the songs are quite different from the rest of the album. So I wouldn't really say like one song is speaking for, you know, the song sonically um they're all like still pop you know but maybe they're cousins with each other one song here and there but it's quite different it takes you on a ride on a journey but can't tamer it's fun it's energetic it's very makes me feel confident. When you went into the studio this time around.

Yeah. What was the objective? When I wrote that song? No, just the album. What were you thinking like in terms of positioning, in terms of what you wanted to do and how you wanted it to be different from previous records? I just wanted it to be really good.

Honestly. Okay. So it was just about. I just want it to be really good. Honestly. Okay. So it was just about. I just want it to be good. Because if you look at my Spotify list, it's like, it's a lot of stuff going on in there. How do you know it's,

what's the metric of measurement that will tell you that it's been really good? I would say a single or a song is a hit above like 400 million streams in what period of time maybe two years but for you like for me for you on like a deeper yeah i would say like emotional level what kind of how you look back and go that was a successful album i think anything over maybe two billion streams is good.

Yeah, that's really good. Sounds really good. I think that's good. 2 billion streams is great. And yeah, everything about that. We sit here in 10 years time and you've been successful i kind of know what the answer is stadium tour on the other foot we sit here in 10 years time and you've been unsuccessful in your own character characterization of what success is yeah maybe i'll just like

redefine it what does that mean what would that look like though what would have made you be unsuccessful in terms of what wouldn't you well you know i think it's just how you that how you value like what you think success is because success could also just be like being happy and it could be like having a family what is it for you and uh well i think it will change over the the years. Right now it is to do really well in music and to just make sure everyone around me is happy and that I'm happy. But in 10 years, obviously a stadium tour. Maybe I would love to make a couple of movies.

This is the stadium tour album? Mm-hmm. Maybe. I'll celebrate like 20 years as an artist. There's something a little lame to celebrate like 20 years. Like even to celebrate like 10 years as an artist. Like have a 10 years as an artist concert. Like celebrate 20 years as an artist.

I don't know. There's something about that I don't like. But I... Is that because it means you're getting older maybe maybe actually how do you feel about getting older um I think I'm a little scared but in general to age um I think it's a beautiful thing and I actually think being like 30 plus they're 40 I for some reason I think it's a beautiful thing. And I actually think being like 30 plus, 40, for some reason, I think I'll be my happiest at like 40 or 50 to just really be in tune with myself, know where I'm going in life, know where I've been,

be even like, I'll read no comments at 40. I don't believe you. We'll see see we'll be like living in the metaverse so you'll be in the comments that's true i'll be forever young in the metaverse trying to get international papers we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for this person has particularly bad handwriting oh that's that could be me we'll find out what's the one thing that gives you the most healthy pleasure in life and how can you commit to... That. Doing it, doing more of it.

I have to say something. Laughing, laughing, laughing, isn't it? Yeah? Yeah. That gives you the most pleasure? I think so. You know, I could really see you having like a vlog. Yeah?

Yeah. Thank you. You've got a great personality. Thanks. Yeah, I think think laughter it's an old saying isn't it it's the best medicine i think it's important i i think laughing laughing laughing you can do with everybody i think so and then you can like masturbate a lot you know laughing and masturbating. At the same time.

Yeah. Something weird about that. But that's great. Zara, thank you so much. A pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to hear your new music. When is it going to be out?

You haven't told anybody yet. This year. I don't really know. Soon. Subjectively soon. Soon. Exactly. Okay.

I can't wait. A pleasure to meet you, Zara. Good to meet you. Thank you subjectively soon. Soon, exactly. Okay, I can't wait. A pleasure to meet you, Zara. Good to meet you. Thank you for having me in your lovely home. Kitchen. You know, I never really usually pick the chocolate-flavored Huells. My favorite are the banana flavor. I love the salted caramel flavor.

But recently, I think I in part blame Jack in my team who's obsessed with the chocolate flavor Huel's I've started drinking the chocolate flavor Huel's for the first time and I absolutely love them my life means that I sometimes disregard my diet and it's funny that's part of the reason why I've had a lot of guests on this podcast recently that talk about diet and health and those kinds of things because I am trying to make an active effort to be more healthy to lose a little bit of weight as well but to be more healthy and the role that Huel plays in my life is it means that in those moments where sometimes I might reach for you know junk foods having an option that is nutritionally complete that is high in fiber that is incredibly high in protein that has all the vitamins and minerals that my body needs within arm arm's reach, that I can consume on the go,

is where Huel has been a game changer for me. Bye.