The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - E39: Jamal Edwards - From Media Student To Multimillionaire

Episode Date: October 10, 2019

At 15, Jamal Edwards rapped under the name "SmokeyBarz", filming with his friends from a £20 phone. At 24, he had received an MBE for services to music and business, taken the first royal selfie and was a multimillionaire. The entrepreneur turned music ...

Quick one, just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to Amazon Music, who when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And

thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. Jamal Edwards, MBE, the normal guy working in Topshop that became an amateur filmmaker and turned into a multi-millionaire. Starting out, Jamal was one of the youngest successful black entrepreneurs in the UK. And when I started started my business he was someone that I admired and looked up to tremendously. I remember stalking him online and one day when he did a Skype group chat I asked him a question and that meant the world to me. Well today I get to ask him a few more. Jamal was born in Luton and at the age of 15 he rapped with his friends under the name Smokey Bars on a £20 camera phone. His first video was simple, just him filming foxes on his local estate. These videos would eventually become his business and the

beginning of the brand which we all know called SBTV. In 2006, Jamal launched SBTV, the first new media business on YouTube, gaining a fan base of over 1 million subscribers and over 600 million views in a very short amount of time. SBTV has launched the careers of many, many people in the music industry, including one guy, which we'll all know, called Ed Sheeran. Voted number two in The Guardian's top 30 young people in digital media, he was also named in the Forbes 30 under 30 list in European media and one of GQ's 100 most connected men of all time. I met him in his office in London and we discussed everything from the barriers you face being a young entrepreneur to race to age to mental health. We talked about family and we

talked about his mum getting cancer at a pivotal moment within his business. We talk about everything and I'm so unbelievably excited to share this conversation with you today because Jamal, for a long time, has been one of my great, great personal idols, someone I can relate to more than any young entrepreneur out there. So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Jamal, I don't really know where to start. There's so much that I have to ask you. If I take it back in my sort of journey when I was 18 years old and I was in Manchester, a young kid with big dreams, you were the face that I always saw.

And I think because I'm a young black guy that didn't come from a very good upbringing, I didn't have many case studies in my life of successful young black men to look to as, I guess, a proof case that it was possible for me. But you're one of those people. I think you've always set a real sort of shining example for me as an entrepreneur as I've um as I've progressed in my career so first and foremost I think I just wanted to say thank you oh my guy no for real I'm not messing it as well I'm not a bullshitter but like genuinely genuinely and you probably won't know this but there was one day when you were doing these Skype interviews and you were allowing people that followed you to to speak to you on Skype and I asked you a question and you responded on skype and i thought that was crazy crazy crazy over those days yeah and that was probably i don't know seven eight years seven years ago

but um i guess where i want to start is at the start of your your journey what were you like in school i think the the i think one of the things that i just, my attention span, there were some things I did enjoy. I enjoyed more the physical stuff, more ICT, stuff like that. But I actually didn't take media or business in school, from primary school or high school, which was quite funny. I now got into media and business, but I was very, I just had a very short attention span. And that led to sort of like behaviour, behaviour problems. I remember like in year nine, like I got put to like a psychiatrist

because I was like, why, what, what, what's going on? I think I've still got a report at home. I don't know why I did that. I only went for like a couple of sessions. They wanted to see, just ask me questions and find out a bit more about my life. But yeah, it was just, I had a very short attention span. And what did the psychiatrist find out?

What was their conclusion? I don't know. Like, it's just, I needed to be stimulated more. I'm just not engaged with the education. Basically, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which caused to me being like a bit of a class clown or whatever. Did you get good grades? I got all right grades.

I didn't get the grades I wanted to get into the first year at college. So I did a national, I did a BTEC national diploma in media moving image, but I had to do a whole nother year because I think I missed one grade because I needed like four

or like six A to Cs. So I had to do a whole nother year. I did a first diploma for a year and then I did the national diploma, which was two years. So I had to do a whole nother year. I did a first diploma for a year and then I did the national diploma, which was two years. So I ended up doing that three years at college. So all my mates that went straight to the two year course, I had to do a first year course,

which was a bit of like an eye opener and I should have focused a little bit more in school. But yeah. I've read and watched a lot about you over the years as you've you've gone on your journey i've never heard you talk a huge amount about what your home life was like as a kid i know you grew up in london and i know you're incredibly close to your mum is there any context of your home life that has shaped who you are today or shaped the stuff you've described in school in the poor behavior is there anything there that's sort of pertinent

or interesting or connected? Or even anything from your sort of home life or your preschool years that inspired you to be a little bit more sort of independent and I guess carefree? I guess much of the reason I ask that question is because I try and look for patterns in people. And my parents weren't really around.

So when I'd wake up every day they were already they're already gone and then when um i came home from school and fell asleep they weren't there they weren't back from work yet my mom would just sleep at her job yeah um so i had this sort of sense of if i was going to have anything in life it was going to come from something that i did so my mom's parents died in a car crash when she was four so like that like my mum and my uncle had to stay with my aunties and it was very strict like so strict and like my mum has then made it very strict for me like very strict like not allowed out like I wasn't even allowed out until I was like I don't know what age i think it was

like just i was turning a teenager but i remember always coming home and i always remember them films you know like jack robin williams where like he's like a big kid and then he goes home and all the kids on the area i wonder who is he like yeah you saw him did you see him i was like like have similarities to that because i was like everyone knew i was there but i wasn't allowed out like what does he do like that had a little bit of an effect on like how I can experience like just life outside of um being in my my parents house my mum is married to uh my stepdad I don't know my real dad um so So he's been very supportive in my life from the early days of like

when I wanted to get certain cameras, certain equipment. But yeah, I think I had a strict upbringing which made me be much more of a, like sort of a rebel when I was allowed to just be free. Because I was like, I'm free now, I can just live a bit.

Again, from watching your journey as an 18 year old kid sat in Moss Side in Manchester, watching YouTube and reading articles and things like that. again from watching your journey as an 18 year old kid sat in Moss Side in Manchester um watching YouTube and reading articles and things like that I got to see one I guess one dimension of being a successful young entrepreneur but there's this other dimension which I think especially at that time nobody really talks about and I think no you it's probably quite hard for you to articulate the true nature of being a young successful entrepreneur that had a lot of spotlight and a lot of people talking and really on this wave of sort of youtube um when i was when i was watching

you in a day so i guess my question is what are the things about being a young entrepreneur when you came up where you came up that people just don't appreciate or just don't realize i don't know i think it's just living your life in a public like like and i'm all for making mistakes like and for people to learn from them and and myself learn from them but i think it was a lot of pressure of making sure you're like like the way you dress like all that sort of stuff and it was only to a certain point where people didn't know who i was it's only my local the local people that knew who i was the google chrome advert then took me to another like level in terms of like publicity which I was I think like about 19 really I was just like whoa it's just mad like people coming up to me taking pictures people staring at me I was

like what is doing it before I just get mad anxious I was like and I was like and then like some people like it got to the point of like people take pictures and that. And I'd be like, why are you taking a picture? And I didn't understand. And then I'd be like, what's my name? Do you think I'm mistaken? Is it someone else? But most of the time, all the time, people say, oh, Jamal, come on, man. SBTV, da, da, da.

And I'm like, yeah, cool. But then also my mum being on X Factor as well like I used to see it with her so she didn't win but she got like fourth place in I think it was like second or third series which is the year that Shane Wood won it but I remember going like shopping and people coming up to her and asking pictures and that sort of stuff so I used to see that and I never used to think that would be for me never I was always Brendon from X Factor's son and then it like switched as like jamal from sp tv's mom and i was just like it's mad how did you how did that feel people coming up and asking you for photos and stuff and i just didn't understand

it at first and then i sort of got a bit used to it but at first i was just a bit like whoa and wait wait wait where are you at with it now oh yeah i'm cool like i'm cool i always get like people they'll just literally stare in my face i'll be like right and then i'm like you know what i'm saying so i know how to deal with it now but at first when i was a little bit younger i just didn't know how to deal with it because i didn't understand so that's the like publicity fame side of um being in the spotlight what about the business side in terms of you were you were at the center of this like super fast growing media platform and you were like really an early this like super fast growing media platform and you were like really an early mover in that space.

I imagine you get brands swarming on you and there's team members and there's this sort of expectation that you have to be like the CEO and the founder and know what, you know, all of the right moves to make. What's that like at a young age? You've got pay people as well. Yeah, I think I was like the youngest boss if you say that everyone that i employed was older than me and it was very daunting for me to be telling people oh yeah do it like this do it like this i used to let people sway my decisions because i was

like i've always been taught to respect your elders so like if they if i say let's do a video like this someone older than me but I think it's like this. I'd be like, yeah, probably, you know, but actually you've got more experience, but, or like more years on your age. But I had to learn to like sort of take that back and actually do what I wanted to do. But in the early days, it was very daunting. Like I would never tell people like,

oh yeah, can you do this? Cause I'd be like, oh, they're just way older than me. No one listens to me. I'm like, like I'm a kid to them. Do you know what I'm saying? And I think I had to overcome that like fear of of just people saying but you're this age like what are you doing well you can't tell me to do that i know i said like that and it's not saying that like that people that work for me was like that but that was just programmed in my head like i used to tell myself that over and over again

that was definitely like a something I had to overcome. Because there's like a lot of kids out there that will be thinking, they might be 19 years old, 20 years old, whatever. They'll be thinking, I think I'm too young to start anything or do anything. What would you say from your experience to those kids? Now, especially you can start a business at whatever age.

I did pocket money pitch and kids like 11 years old was pitching me a forecast. I was like, what? This is crazy. So I feel like the age now has been lowered.

I think like when we were in school, entrepreneurship and business wasn't really like co-signed as much as it is now. And then seeing people like myself, people like you, other people, like breaking down the barriers and like, you know what? Actually enterprise can be done at whatever as it is now and they're seeing people like myself people like you other people like breaking down the barriers and like you know what actually enterprise can be done like at

whatever age it is and it doesn't matter what background you're from because like people are actually making it happen and so you've got you've got you know that google advert was massive at the time actually i feel like i remember where i was when i saw it it was like the first ad break of x-factor that year crazy i know i was like sweating like really sweating i was crazy i first ad break of X Factor that year it was crazy I know I was like sweating really literally sweating I was like I got the list of like

where it was going like it was on Sky Sports really they gave you a list yeah they gave me a list of every like it was huge and yeah

like Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber was like my counterparts I was the one in the UK and I think the reason why it did well is because like

a lot of people related to the story but um it was a surreal moment it was a surreal moment like it was a surreal moment and there's that on one end which is like the the like the celebration and those like key moments which i think all business people encounter what are the the the hard parts that people don't talk about the stuff where you know people will follow you on instagram they'll see oh he's got an mbe he's like he's done this google google advert he's got all of these amazing honors you're you're saw you on a primark poster the other day oh yeah yeah i mean but what are the bits that um people don't put on instagram i have

my moments in it so i'll be, some days I'm just like, oh, I can't be arsed. Like, no, you can't be arsed. It's just like, I don't know what it is. You just feel like demotivated a bit. I don't know where it comes from. Like, and like, I think one of the things you can see that is if I don't post,

if I don't post social media, I go disappear for a bit. That's when I'm just like, I just need me time sort of thing. Cause it's like, it is a job in itself to keep up the positive messages. Like I do quite often post stuff, like if it's not going well,

I do try and do that as well, as much as I post the positive stuff. Cause I just want people to know the realism is just all like up you know i'm saying like there are some times when i have like down times and where i'm just like i just want to be left alone and i think that's so important and i always try and push those messages as much as i put like positive messages up as well and i think it has a positive effect of showing the real of what's what goes on day to day instead of it yeah because without you saying that as a like an 18 year old

kid watching you i just think um jamal's always on point he's always 100 motivated and this is i'm not i'm not doing this like and the risk there is if i have a bad day and i'm someone that admires you i think there's something wrong with me but in fact I think what you've described is human yeah like you just feel like

do you know what I'm saying I don't know if I want to do this or do that and that that I try like that happens every night and then it does

question does that happen more now than it did at the start of your journey yes because I'm much more known so I feel like I've got something to live up to Does that happen more now than it did at the start of your journey? Yes, because I'm much more known. So I feel like I've got something to live up to, like more than back in the day, it was just me and my mates.

And I feel like when I was a little bit younger, you're a bit more nimble. Like I'm getting older now. So it's like the mistakes you make is like, you've been doing this for how long now? You still make mistakes, but not as many mistakes as you make as when you're younger. So I feel like, yeah, it is a bit more pressure now. But I don't mind if something did bad happen.

I would say it. I would put it online and I just got to learn from it. Yeah. I think of all the entrepreneurs that I know and that I follow, you've, you've definitely been a real advocate of the truth and showing the behind the scenes that I think other people wouldn't have the, honestly, the strength and the,

the self selflessness to show, because there's not really enough. There's not a huge upside in showing vulnerability all the time. It's more something that I think you've done for other people. Like the, you know, you did the documentary about mental health and something that I think you've done for other people. Like the, you know, you did the documentary about mental health and the music industry and those kinds of things in business.

Bad news is inevitable. Yeah. A hundred percent. But people don't talk about it and no, no one shares that part as much. Right. We all post the fucking, the awards we get certificates,

whatever else. Yeah. Like, cause there are brands that, for example, if you're like to go real simple, if you're pitching to go real simple um if you're pitching for work and you don't get it that's like i think one of the things that

happens all the time and necessarily don't talk about that and i feel like i haven't necessarily talked about that a lot where we'll go into it um but i guess that's an ongoing conversation because then you just re-pitch again instead of it being like oh we didn't win this brand brand work so you're going to say the brand but i think that happens a lot um and i think people I guess that's an ongoing conversation because then you just re-pitch again instead of it being like, oh, we didn't win this brand. Brand works. You want to say the brand, but I think that happens a lot. And I think people need to know that happens a lot.

You don't just win every single pitch. Like, I don't know any business that wins every single pitch. You always have like, except for men like Steve Barton, of course. No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm joking, I'm joking. We win them,

but then we sometimes we lose them and we fuck up. I know, exactly. A typo can fuck the whole thing up. That's what I'm saying. It happens. It happens to me. It happens to you.

And I think that's important to know. Some people might not get their first business for years. You've just got to keep on going. And I think that's one of the things I always try and push, is that self-belief, keep on going. Because there were times when I couldn't get certain artists. Even today, I might not be able to get certain artists or certain brand work that I want to try and do

and we don't win the pitch, but we've just got to keep on going. And how do you deal with, what's your sort of coping mechanism with dealing with bad news as a young entrepreneur? And how has it changed over time? I think now it's much more organised instead of it being like...

Emotional. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, like cool it didn't happen let's keep moving forward like whether that's investment or brand work or working with an artist and yeah it's just about trying to keep that that positive mental attitude I think back in the day I was a lot more like oh this is all going like this is gonna flop like I'm done like and I would disappear for like a few days like no one would be able to is going to flop like I'm done like and I would disappear for like a few days

like no one would be able to get through to me because I'd be so angry that I didn't get something and I think that was just from dealing with business from young and not knowing

how to deal with it and knowing that you've actually got a team with you I had to learn how to do that and delegate because I always used to be

very like it was all I want to do everything I want to do everything and I had to get out of that mindset because it was killing my like mindset it was also my health was deteriorating it was very to to delegate was like one of the big things that i needed to learn but they say that when something becomes a job or it becomes like monotonous or like this the same every day and also when you

get paid to do it you lose the creative motivation to do it that's why you've always got to have oomph moments like i class them as oomph moments like moments in my career where it just gives me a new oomph for like a period of time so like for example the most recent one was i did a a fashion week party at Sur House Greek Street. I saw it. Like that was an oomph moment and it was like we were saying in a group like, oh yeah, let's do one for Halloween or let's do another one for Christmas or whatever. But it was like, no, let that marinate.

Let that just like, you know what I'm saying, let it season. You know when you put the seasoning in food, just gotta let it get the juices, you know what I'm saying and we need to like when we as well as we're our losses and our wins we need to let it sink in because like if you lose

like yes dust yourself back up and get back up again but you just need to realise what how did you lose and how can you

like not make that same mistake again the same thing for your wins like let it get out there and then move on to the next thing and I think like over the years i wish i'd have these moments i did a talk about creating and curation i was a creator creator at first and then i ended up being a curator and i think one of the like moments was like when i did the social media hub the first time social media hub at

buckingham palace where i took a selfie with Prince Harry and Prince William and I think it was from like that moment I was like oomph like that lasted for like months and it's like when we're working

you've always got to think of these moments like and I always try to say if I have four moments in a year cool that's good

a moment each quarter and then I can have like little moments in between that but it's just reminding people I'm still here. Like,

cause I'm like 10 plus years in the game now. It's like, you always just got to have them sort of moments. 10 plus years in the game. You know, you started SB a long, long time ago. I must've been about 16,

17 when you, when you started, when you got into the game. How has your sort of love for what you do changed over time? You talked a little bit there about oomph moments, but I'm like, the reason I asked this question, I think because I'm like maybe five years into my business technically.

I'll call it six or seven before we really got going, but five years into my business. And I still ask myself this question a lot about how much I love it every day and how passionate I am to come to work and if there is ever

a day where I come in and I don't have the the drive I start asking myself all these questions as to where it's gone so like 10 years into SB how are you feeling

about the brand today? I feel like I could be doing a lot more if I'm honest cards on the table but my again like just from when i was a kid my mind is like that i'm involved in so much different stuff it's like i need to focus on it a little bit more um like the music scene right now killing it and even

not just that just the scene in general like i was with my jam on the other day and like she's smashing the game i was with like the show, they're smashing the game. I was with different camps and units all over up and down the UK. It just feels like a real moment. So I feel like I could be doing, with SB I could be doing a lot more and 2020 Vision I'm going to be doing a lot more. I have so many plans with big institutions that I'm working on at the moment behind the scenes. I'm running a British library, so I'm like talking to like big brands and these are oomph moments. I could do just that and that will last a few months and I'll do that again last a few months or a couple months, whatever. And I'll just carry on from doing that. I feel like I'll be doing a lot more.

Like when I go out in the streets and people are like, why are you doing this no more? Where's the... I want to bring back F64s do more A64s but people got to realise I was making content for so long and like the community stuff just took over

my life a little bit and I really got stuck in with setting up the youth centres and working on that behind the scenes so yeah I think yeah

but yeah in terms of SB I could be doing a lot more on that sentence I could be doing a lot more one of the one of the things, I think, yeah, but yeah, in terms of SB, I could do a lot more. On that sentence there, I could be doing a lot more. One of the, one of the things that I think

makes a lot of people that message me put a lot of pressure on themselves is that sentence, is that constant feeling. I have the same feeling, right?

I always think, fuck, you should be doing more, you should be further, you should be doing better. Yeah. And even, you know,

even like an 18 year old kid that's just starting out, they're looking up at you, they're looking up at other people and they're thinking I should be doing a lot more and I think we're all in a world where we're all sat here thinking I should be doing a lot more how do you deal with that pressure and does it feel like pressure, does it make you feel anxious?

100% I think it reaffirms it when I see people and they tell me why aren't you doing this and I'm like why aren't I doing this, do you like why aren't i doing this do you know what i'm saying and it's like you could tell yourself again and again why aren't you doing something but when someone else tells it to you then it's like that's the consumer they're there what their voice matters because you have it already in your brain but someone just unlocks

it i always say people have people have where it is what what it is they want to do inside them like i unlocked it when i was 15 like like someone's nan could unlock it when i was 80 she started up a knitting business and it's like but everyone has that passion inside them it's just something that triggers it or something that you find where oh i could do that and then you go and run with it so i feel like yeah it's like they're inside you and someone just unlocks it. And then that's what it's like, you know what, I could be doing more. Do you procrastinate? Oh, I am the biggest procrastinator.

Really? I am so bad. I don't know if people know that, but I am the biggest procrastinator in all time. I actually think I'd be top three, top 10, top three. It's so bad. I don't know how, it's like one of the biggest things. Like, I don't really talk about it, but it's bad.

There'll be certain things, like certain videos that are still not out from years ago. It's like I'm a gerbil, like a hamster. I just keep everything stored and it's really bad. It's a clutter in my brain.

But there's projects I've been on the table for ages, like big projects. And it's just because like i'm just like oh yeah oh and now oh if you know that me that you know that me in your mind what is procrastination for me procrastination is getting to the point where you've thought about something so much that you've almost talked yourself out of immediate action.

Yeah. Like in a way. So you think you might think to yourself, I've got that essay to do in school. I really fucking don't want to do it. And there's that question which I don't know how to answer. And I have got some time. And you talk yourself so much out, you find yourself fucking like, you know, like kicking the ball at a fucking wall. Yeah.

And you go and find other things to do do which doesn't have anything to do with that when the task at hand the thing that you're avoiding there tends to be a psychological often bullshit barrier as to why you're not confronting it so it might be oh you don't know the answer to question three it might be that um you you fucking hate it like it could be some it might be that you're like scared of failing a lot of people procrastinate from doing things because they think they'll fuck they'll fail yeah so that's like me and talking i can't do keynotes i think this is something that will surprise something i can't do keynotes it's just like my fear like i just

think of like getting clammy hands thinking about it now but like there's been so like whether it's like not paid or like big paid jobs I've had to turn them down like because I can't get over that going on stage

for 15 minutes and just talking I've got a little game for you Jamal here so I'm an 18 year old kid and I come to you Jamal and I say Jamal

I respect you and admire you so much I've got a problem though I can't do keynotes oh, and I say, Jamal, I respect you and admire you so much. I've got a problem now. I can't do keynotes. Oh, lovely, bro. I say go look at Steve Bartlett. He's the don at it.

You know what I'm saying? No, what would you say to me, though? Genuine question. Don't look at Steve Bartlett's videos. Are you mad? No, no, but surely it's the same principles as everything else you've done in Overcoming Your Life. It's the same set of like...

I don't know, but I'm like so comfortable with not doing it. Like, and I feel like I've built that barrier in my head. Like my agents are like, Jamal do media training, we get public speaking courses. They do all the top speakers in the game,

Sir Ken Robinson, all. And I was like, I just can't, I just can't. Maybe one day I'll get over it. But at this moment in time, I've managed. And I was, and this is what I'm time, I've managed, and I was, and this is what I'm saying, I've managed to, I feel like,

what if I managed to get to where I am today without doing it? Like, but then I think, imagine if I did do it, like I could be just doing, do you know what I'm saying? It's just nuts. Like how I've not,

that barrier in my brain won't allow me to do it. And I've done a, I've done a TEDx talk, which I said, the future prime minister will come from YouTube. And it went done a TEDx talk, which I said the future prime minister will come from YouTube. And it went all right, but like there could have been,

I think like after that, I closed myself off again. Like I should have taken that, learned on how I can improve because basically it was like, it was like I just wanted to finish it. And anything I want to finish, I rush.

Like I did an Hermes catwalk, like my first ever catwalk. I couldn't believe I did it. And rush like I did uh uh an Hermes catwalk like my first catwalk I believe I did it and like literally I walked on and I walked so fast to get off the catwalk because I was just like you know what I'm saying it's like the same thing with talking I was talking so fast I wasn't letting the words marinate I think people are gonna know this word marinate marinate is that can be applied to all aspects of life trust me um but yeah what are you scared of talking kilos i think failure and i think like having people not care about you anymore at the end of the day the audience is the most important thing the reason why we're doing this

is like we've got an audience we've got like followers we've got people that look up to us we've got people that and i feel like once someone a lot of people don't care about is what you're doing you've got to look at something else so it's like if people are not checking through anymore then you don't really have a business because the consumer is like quite important to our businesses anyway and just not being able to do the stuff that i procrastinate about a lot of time as well so like there's loads of projects and i think crazy stuff i think like every day is our last day i feel and like sometimes i go to sleep and i'm like crazy stuff like what happens if i'm not alive to see that like i don't know what's what why i think like that but it's like there's

that that and there's other stuff like I've got a project with the V&As or like an artist that I'm going to work with in like a month's time two months time but I think what happens if I'm not going to be alive

for that I don't know where does that come from I don't know I honestly don't know I just think mad stuff I'll go to sleep and I'll be like

damn like if I just like but I think I've had a lot of death in my life as well which is like sort of like I've had a lot of death in my life as well which is like sort of like I've known people that have

like died in their sleep like S-A-A-D-S I think it's called where it's like just your heart stops and then like I've known a few couple people like that

or like people that are not around no more and it's just like your mum had a battle with cancer oh yeah yeah yeah which you talked about a lot what was that what was that like because my mum had a battle with cancer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which we talked about a lot.

What was that like? Because my mum, I remember when I was younger, I think I was about 12 years old, my mum came home and she said to me, there's a lump in my breast. And for the next maybe about two weeks until she had her second stage scan of it, it was like, you know, world shattering, I guess.

And I must have been 12 11 maybe even younger um so when i read that you had been through a very similar thing and your mum had been diagnosed my mum was turned out it was a cyst which she had removed um a lot of people don't understand what that what that must be like especially when you're you've got this sort of big business that you've got to maintain and keep focused and keep up appearances over here. But then something like that so personal and close to home happens, what's that like?

I just removed myself from a lot of stuff. I just didn't want to just be out and about. And I feel like it was definitely a moment that made me appreciate life a little bit more and provide a little bit more for my family family and close ones around me just like open my mind a lot like we're not on this earth forever like we're alive the only thing certain is death i don't want to say this i was talking about death a lot but it's like you've got to try and do as much as you can in the time that you're given. And I feel like everyone's got the same 24 hours on this planet.

I saw that quote, like, you've got the same 24 hours as Bill Gates, Richard Branson, whatever. So it's like trying to appreciate that and trying to give it all as you can, but still maintain a healthy lifestyle. Because otherwise it will, like, you'll spend, like, I hear people that spend 21 hours awake like working on it you just got got health is wealth as well because health is wealth as well because um it's important if you're creating a business or you want to do something

and you ain't healthy that's going to affect you like your health is the most important thing one of my um i don't think i've ever said this before, but one of my fears is that I'll be so consumed in running my business and then one of my close family members will die and I'll look back and regret not spending more time with them when I had the chance. And I think I don't want that moment to make me realise what actually matters.

That happened to me. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I've got a very big family. I think my grandparents were, 18 brothers and sisters. Crazy. Like, I don't know half of my family. And I was so, like, I would never go to gatherings, like, all that sort of stuff.

And it was, like, and then it came a period of time where I started wanting to go back and check my aunties and my uncles and my cousins. Because I realised I was consumed by it. Did you get to that point? Consumed by? Like your business. Bro, it's now. Like I don't call mum,

like I'll be keeping it facts. Cause it's just, what's the point of me lying? I call my mum. It sounds so bad, right? You're going to, your opinion of me is going to go in the fucking toilet.

No. Once every two months. It's bad. My mum and dad live in the UK. I'm in the Southwest in Cornwall. I travel around the world. That's why my suitcases are over there. I'm going flying to New York.

Just been told I'm flying to New York now. So like, and I don't like, I'm not good at, the balance is my biggest flaw. I don't have any balance. It's all work for me. And that's why I say that's one of my biggest fears is figuring out before it's sort of too late for them to why i say that's one of my biggest fears is figuring out before before it's sort of too late for them to smell the roses that i had a priorities issue and i'm

it's almost like i'm aware of it but i'm not i've not done anything about it yet i relate like i relate and i believe everything happens for a reason like i remember when i moved out which is when your mom got diagnosed no so i mean when i moved out like 21 or something like that yeah right and then i sort of moved back to like when she when that happened right um but in that period of time i didn't the same thing like i like i was so into it like like um my mom and dad would message me and it would take me like time to message them back and they'll be like are you all right like do you know i'm saying like so i i I resonate with that.

But then also, I bumped into my aunt who used to look after me when I was younger and I thought about it, I've never had a picture with her. And I was like, what? So I sat her down and I was like, look, we're taking a picture. She's like, no, we're not, no, we're not, no, we're not. And I was like, pictures create memories, innit? And I was just thinking about it, like, our family is important

but at the same time, like, people create memories, innit? And I was just thinking about it. Like, our family is important. But at the same time, like, people that I've only just met, I, like, could have more meaning in my life than some family members in the whole time. And that's bad. Crazy. But, like, that's because you don't see them. That's the people that you connect to and that you work with on a daily basis.

Do you know what I'm saying? And your people and your business become your family and that's just how how life is and i think people beat themselves up over a little bit um but i do think it's important to check for the people that mean a lot to you definitely and when you when you got that news that your mom was she was she was sick um how did that impact your ability to run your business um fortunately my my people in business was like tomorrow take as much time as you need She was sick. How did that impact your ability to run your business? Fortunately, my people in my business was like, Jamal, take as much time as you need.

In my head, I was like, oh my God, is she going to die? Like, because I was like, oh my God. I think she had like stage three or stage four. I was really, like, really late. Like, that she got diagnosed with it. And like, I think one of the big things that I learned from that was her positive attitude and self-belief came from me. Like, just from me just being, do you know what I'm saying, going through it. And she applied that, like, very, like, even though she's losing her hair,

like, all that sort of stuff, she applied that. She was like, I took your mindset applied that she was like i took your mindset and i was like i'm gonna make it through it and she made it through it um which is good um and now she's like killing the game on loose women so she's doing good she's doing good awesome one of the one of the things i actually spoke about in the last podcast i did was about um race and the topic of race here's my here's my kind of opinion one of the things that i've got to be honest um frustrates me a little bit is when minorities specifically black minorities because it's the group that i feel like i can identify with the most um fall into the trap of

thinking that their race will hold them back or even in cases of like you know um gender or even ageism um will hold them back because they are black and it's a young successful black man like yourself um do you ever see that and what's your opinion of it i used to but that's about i used to think it's because i'm black yeah yeah and now like i don't think that as much but i said that depends upon the people that you hang around with and that you surround yourself with because i surround myself with so many different groups and i like to connect those groups so like my upmarket city boys i would connect them to like my state boys and we'd go to like soya house for example and they'd all be there and they all get on and they all like fine

but everyone seems to make this segregation and I like I think back in the day I used to have that in my head if I never used to get anything I was like oh it's because I'm black

it's because I'm black and then I built my mindset out of that because it was going to keep me trapped if I kept like thinking like that all the time and I just got to

like I feel like it doesn't like it doesn doesn't matter what race you are. It goes deep. It goes deep. Like, it goes deep. Obviously, the history, like, that you can see, like, black history and you can learn about it. And I'm not going to go into it.

I know bits about it and I'm not, like, I'm not going to say I it. I know bits about it and I'm not like, I'm not going to say I'm like a historian or whatever, but I know about like the oppression and all that. But it's like we're in a new age and people can say what age or race or whatever, but it's in your mind to be the change

you want to see in the world. That's a Gandhi quote. And I try and make sure that I don't let that affect how I move because otherwise it's not a blame game. You just got to carry on. You got to do it. And it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy if you start to believe it, right? Yeah.

Like you manifest. Do you know what I'm saying? Why don't you manifest you're going to do something else? Not manifest, oh, it's because I'm black. The reason I didn't get that is because I'm black or it's what I'm saying why don't you manifest you're going to do something else not manifest oh it's because I'm black the reason I didn't get that is because I'm black or it's because I'm young like I remember

I used to do that as well like it's because I'm young but then I like ended up employing someone that had 20 years of experience and then me and that person

combined got the job do you know what I'm saying so and you just got to think you're in a situation how do you take it and change it that to the way that it can fit you and then build on it and that's what i think frustrates me about it

is because i see i see the issue i i know discrimination is a very real thing and i'm not yeah it is i think we're all just we all have our own prejudices yeah you know stereotypes and 100 so but that's not something that i can really change at scale like i can't change the prejudice in people you can change your mindset yeah and i actually think that the prejudice or the belief that i'm being um i'm at a disadvantage because of something like my skin color that i can't change is more um dangerous or more conducive with me not being successful than the little bit of prejudice that john at that brand might have towards people that look like me so i think the mindset becomes

a bigger issue this is a controversial topic of course because you know it's the important nuances that you know prejudice and discrimination are still very real things yeah 100 but it's you you're how you deal with it. There's that saying of like, people get thrown things at them all the time, but it's your reaction that is what makes it whatever it is. Do you know what I'm saying? Look at the football at the moment and racism. For example, Raheem could turn around,

run into the crowd and start slapping whoever's being racist, but no, he deals with it properly, like a big man, diligently. And do you know what I'm saying? So it's about how you deal with it, definitely. You spoke in your documentary about mental health in the music scene. You spoke a lot about your own battles with anxiety. It's something that seems to be more prevalent now in our generation than ever before. People point their

fingers at social media and all these kinds of things you mentioned earlier that you had you felt you had a very cluttered mind um which i thought was an interesting use of words what has your sort of experience with mental health been and um are you closer to understanding what what is causing it and what helps to sort of i guess cure it yeah like i find i find it affects everyone like you you have these moments these times where you wake up and i don't know your serotonin levels might be low or whatever but like i can only talk for like how i deal with it so like how i deal with it is like trying to eat better like because when I have heavy meals it just makes me feel groggy

and I just feel oh you know what I'm saying slow gym like is another thing keeping like healthy

and just switching off sometimes and spending some time with like friends and that is quite important like a recent thing is like football for me like I was obviously a massive football fan when

i was younger but when i started doing sb it was i couldn't go to the pub and watch games or go to stanford bridge and watch the games so um music took over my life and it was like even again like chelsea was playing valencia yesterday yeah and i was talking at havas and it was like i've got a season ticket and it's like, I balance, like it's happening again. Like where I'm stuck in between, like,

do I go here and do I turn this down? And I think a lot of people didn't realise that I was a massive football fan. And like, I've like started going to a lot more games and it just like, it just removes me from everything. And I'm just in the game for like that period of time which i find for me personally like is like a it's like a relief like just from my crazy world like and then i go back to my normal world again like it's a bit weird but yeah and you see you

i read somewhere that you your sort of relationship with anxiety is quite unpredictable in the sense that your anxiety comes over you randomly with a without apparent cause yeah like I'll be in a place or I'll go into a place and I'll be like I don't I just I don't know I just like leave and did that start at a certain age or a certain time or was it um I think so yeah it's like I think it was a confidence thing as well like from young I always wanted to make videos and just put them out there. And whatever topics I wanted to talk about, I was going to do a few videos and that was it.

I wasn't going to have, like, no real-life interaction. And I think that, like, it's just always been there. I don't know how to explain it, really. But I think a lot of it is confidence of, like it used to be like money gives you confidence and then I realised your actual life and your relationships gives you confidence with people. And I think it was just the wrong messaging

that I was looking at and I was giving into that allowed my brain to be sort of sidetracked into what is life, is uh a fulfilled life um and then that's what created me having like getting anxious in certain places i don't like this vibe or whatever but i remember i worked in top man for like four or five years and that actually built my confidence a lot because i used to have to go up to people and ask people for store cards i did not know and i think that that was one of the most frightening things i had to do and that helped me like build like more uh relationships with people talking to people because i was just a

very closed kid when i was um i just did this show with channel four in a school called secret teacher oh yeah and um it was one of the things that i i discovered from that process was that the people that i thought were the class class clowns so i walked into this classroom i see all these kids some of them are like throwing pencils telling teachers f off throwing bottles just messing around and i'm sat there in lesson one thinking these are just these kids are just assholes like they're just like horrible people right and then the more i got to know the kids you un sort of ravel their stories and find out that the ones that are the biggest class clowns and behaving the worst

were in fact bullied for four years when they were you know like six years old and they were that they are they are the ones that have the lowest confidence and in fact their behavior was kind of a way to mask their kind of lack of confidence in themselves or the like the education or whatever. Do you think that's, is that something that relate, you can relate to? Yeah, definitely. I think like,

like, and I think with me, like I picked the wrong battles, like from when I was young. Like I remember in year seven, like I was in class and I think like someone must have, like, threw, like, a rubber in the back of my head, yeah? And I was like, what? Like, I, like, just got so angry.

And, like, I think with that certain group of people that that person was hanging around with, I had, like, a problem with them. Like, and I think, I don't know where it came from whatever i just thought like yeah he's like just picking on people whatever um and i remember i had an outburst like when i was like younger in the early days when i was like year seven and you're like like everyone's new it's like you're you're making your name it's like you're you're finding out who your group of friends are and you're sort of like figuring out how you're gonna like go from your 70 11 um and i think yeah it can have an effect you talked a second about um figuring out more as you've gotten older what like fulfillment is in life and what like happiness really is yeah do you have that answer

um i don't have the answer do you know what it is for yourself do you know what the things are that um for me what makes me happy is being able to um give back i think when i when earlier like years ago i think money was like a big happiness factor but i've known people that have got serious money and they're not happy so i feel like me happiness for me is like being able to give back and improve other people's lives like and I was doing that for years with SB I put artists on and then they'd blow up and then I'd be like yes I've like been helped helped a career do you know what I'm saying and then like after that it became more about the community of doing the stuff the youth stuff and that like for me is fulfillment and you on the topic of giving back to people,

you're opening youth centres back up in London? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got, like, four. I was supposed to do one and then I ended up opening four because I just got carried away. They were centres that were closed. Two were, like, drop-in sessions where young people can come and just somewhere outside of school and outside of your home

where you can come and just talk, like if you've got problems or whatever. And we want to try and do a lot of mental health workshops. And then we've got another session, which is like music and media, which like JBL have kind of like thrown loads of stuff at us. Apple have given us loads of stuff where young people can come and learn to produce, film, anything that you want want and then we've got one which is sports which is like for kids that want to do sport and i think the main thing i want to do with these centers is like we've engaged over 150 kids over the past 13 14 weeks um but it's like if a young person comes to me and

says i ask them what do you want to do one was i want to be a lawyer one wants to be a sprinter one wants to um be a librarian whatever i would then use my contacts to connect them to that right person so then i'll go speak to like a law firm or i'll go speak to like apple or i'll go speak to the british library and then get that young person in there for work experience whatever and to try and help build their self-belief and confidence because I think that's one of the big things that I didn't have from when I was young I didn't really have the confidence and self-belief because no one used to tell me you could do that you could do that I just sort of like looked at the TV and the newspapers and and internet and made up my own mind but that's one of the big

things that I want to try and do for the young people today what impact did money have when you left Topman and started making some money I don't know people like never know

people might be scheming on you touch wood I've never been like robbed or whatever but you just never know

I've had people like say oh Jamal be careful like people kidnap you and whatever and I'm like because I think

like people have that perception of you're making loads of money like in the early days and it wasn't that at all but it was like oh you've got like

millions of views you must be making loads of money so I feel like money just brings money brings happiness and sadness I think

but in the early days I used to think money was money made the world go round I don't think that anymore why not? because money comes and goes like

you're not gonna take like all the clothes that we're wearing and that when you're in the grave it's not gonna matter obviously you're gonna have money

left back for your family your close ones whatever but it's like you have money and you lose money I've had money

I've lost money like so it's like if I gave you a hundred love hate relationship a check for one billion right now would it make you happier oh i can see you smiling yes and no do you know what i'm saying it has its pros and its cons like and i think it's what i would use the money for like i think if i use the money for self yeah self like going by a big your house like because that could be very lonely like whereas if i went and i did a

tour and i opened up centers obviously you want to spend a little bit money on yourself but if you spend it all in yourself i think that would create uh like crazy sort of dynamic like that would like go crazy go crazy because some rich people i know are so bored yeah like what could it work well yeah i'm gonna go fly to monaco today yeah i'm gonna fly here and it's like do you know what i'm saying but you can survive yourself with those rich people but like normal people they have nine to fives not gonna come because you want to fly there for like god knows how long, but I don't know. You said about money can make you feel quite lonely, especially if you get a big ass house and you're like, it's a mistake I made when I was 24, bought a big house, 40 minutes away from all my friends thinking I was some big guy and then realised that I get home at midnight.

So it's a 40 minute drive that I didn't want to do at night and an hour in the morning. I think everyone does that. I did that as well. It's think everyone does that I did that as well stupid yeah I did that as well like and then I realised I wasn't

it's the worst for people to come visit it's like it's long but then you realise who your true friends are it's true a little bit

if they come and visit and there was only a few that actually came to visit like where I was living far basically I went from west to east right

and that journey is like an hour in itself it's like another city yeah so but but yeah that you actually realize who your true friends are and i feel like when you're creating a business you're going to get a lot of people that will be like oh you forgot about me like where are you like you know i'm saying but the real ones always be there and i've realized that years later down the line but it used to affect me like why are my friends not talking to me anymore like they just

think like i'm big-headed or whatever but they didn't realise I was just chasing a dream. And I think at a young age, they only saw that as like, they didn't realise that until now. But like, okay, we get it. And I think that's because as you grow up, you gain experiences and you learn how to sort of deal with stuff.

And has there been real lonely moments for you running the business? Yeah, there's been sort of lonely, lonely parts. Because people say that entrepreneurship and like running businesses is a really lonely, lonely game. Yeah, I think like, I think that's what I had to deal with when I was younger. Like now I think I've got like a quite good support group. But when I was younger, I didn't have that support group. And I think that's what was programmed into my brain. Like this is how business is and I don't think it is and isn't um

so yeah like I've I've dealt with like lonely aspect from when I was younger and I didn't have anyone to ask and I remember like my parents like didn't think I could ask them they didn't understand and it's like if I ask them about certain, they'd be like, oh, I don't get it. So I've dealt with the loneliness when I was younger. Now, if there's loneliness, I know how to deal with it. When I was young, I didn't know how to deal with it and I dealt with it however I did. What's the future for Jamal Edwards then?

What's the big, you know, when you look into it, I don't necessarily have a plan for myself. I don't expect people to have a plan but when you think about your future what is that what does it look like

and feel like I want to do my own podcast I don't know I live like power of now innit I live in the power of now I'd like to do more

personal brand stuff and I feel like I've been building the Jamal Edwards brand outside of the SB I'd like to like do some more management and like tour I've been building the Jermont Edwards brand outside of the SB. I'd like to do some more management and tour, travel the world a bit as well. But travel the world on much more of a leisure tip instead of always being around work.

I don't think that will ever happen, but I can talk it into existence. I'd like to do more youth centres. I'd like to open up more youth clubs. I'd like to be involved in more entrepreneurship, manage musicians. Will you ever be satisfied? Never. You can never be satisfied. I'd like to be on a t-shirt.

Never satisfied. If you were to... I know you don't like talking about this topic because you said it earlier, but if you were to drop dead today, would you have any regrets about the way you know

you'd done Jamal I don't think so I don't know is that a right is there a right answer for that there's not a right answer no

yeah I don't know I feel the same way I feel like I feel like I had a good good run yeah I feel like it's decent I don't know

I feel the same way I think yeah would you still be thinking a little bit, though, I could have done... Yeah, 100%. I could have done that project. I could have filmed that person.

I could have done that acting role or whatever. I don't know, like... And I think that will always be, like, always be in my head. Probably watch it with you. Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? And, like, I really believe in, like, just keep on going.

Like, keep on going no matter what it is. This is my last question. You're known for your network and for being a... Network is your net worth. Exactly. And you're someone, of all the people that I've probably had on this podcast, I don't think anybody's got a better network

or sort of a phone book than you. Well, only Steve Bartlett, of course. No, mine's nothing like yours, bro. Come on, my bro. No, no, my network isn't like yours, bro. No, you're humble, bro. You're humble, bro. No, it's not there.

These are the facts. Well, no, come on, man. No, but like this is because it's like central to your business model as well is being able to like connect people, bring them on and then, you know,

the success of SBTV has been blowing these people up like Ed Sheeran, et cetera. So I so i guess my question is question i always ask everybody um you're having a dinner party oh god who's on the table six people i'm there because it's my house come on you're there right yeah four other people and the only the only Dead or alive? Dead or alive. Oh. And also want to know what the starter is, the main course and the dessert. Jesus.

Oh my God. Give me time. All right. You can have all the time you want. All right. Who was the first person that popped in mind when I said that? Was there a person? Yeah.

Who was it? It was Stephen Hawking and Nelson Mandela. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I met Stephen Hawking before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was Stephen Hawking and Nelson Mandela. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I met Stephen Hawking before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like mad. And he, I think he went to, he met my mum as well.

When my mum was in, we were in Waukees. So he went to go watch at the Dominion Theatre. I just, I was just trying to think of who are the greatest minds in the world. Like, mixed with random ones. Like, I don't know, like Chuckle Brothers or something. Chuckle Brothers. Like, ah like Chuckle Brothers or something Chuckle Brothers like Chuckle Brothers there man

so yeah I think like does Stephen Hawking get a seat yeah definitely Nelson Mandela I have some females in there

so like Mother Teresa or something nice one more one more that's it wait four you sat on that I can ask them to get back up again one more one more that's it wait four

you've sat on that I can ask them to get back up again four people dead or alive Stephen I'm gonna have to ask you to stand back up

Jamal's not sure oh no Nelson if you could just get to your feet wait wait wait wait wait oh my days damn

I'll put them back on the waiting list. Oh, nah. How could you do that to a man like Steven? Oh, mate. I'm using that really old school, just to get some knowledge. You know what I'm saying? I'd say throw Oprah Winfrey in there as well.

If you had to invite one person that's featured on SBTV who would it be not easy question do you know one someone came to my head Dave

really yeah yeah yeah yeah he's sick yeah he's like like I feel like because I'm watching Top Boy he smashed that wall as well

that's what Puzder came to my head straight away that's interesting yeah he's killing the game I'd say I'd say

I'd say Dave fried dumplings for starters nice yeah then for the main what's your

your African heritage where are you from I'm from St. Vincent Caribbean so yeah St. Vincent the Grenadines I was born in Botswana

oh shit Botswana to St. Vincent I don. So yeah, St. Vincent and the Grenadines. I was born in Botswana. Oh shit. Botswana to St. Vincent. I don't know, I'd like, I'd like, I'd like to go off on topic, but I'd like to find my real dad one day and know what side that side is. I don't know what my other side is, which is a bit. Have you ever tried to find him? Yeah. And no, I don't know.

I don't know. Done that ancestry thing, innit? Right. I don't know. Done that ancestry thing, isn't it? Right. I don't know how true that is. That's a whole nother kettle of fist. That's a whole nother thing. But yeah. Main.

The main. Do you know what? I'm just going to go standard. Like rice, peas and chicken, I think. Nice. This is so stereotypical. Yeah, of course he's going to choose standard like rice peas and chicken I think nice now this is so stereotypical yeah of course he's going to choose that do you know what

actually I will have the jasmine tea smoked chicken oh nice yeah like that oh that's still chicken oh my god I'm thinking about chicken

so much do you know what I'll go throw in some sea bass sea bass yeah sea bass sea bass sea bass with rice and some nice

some nice but it's got to have loads of garlic I love garlic garlic and ginger with some basmati rice yeah with some nice sauce

and then for dessert I will have scones oh my god scones I love scones I didn't expect that

you've been hanging around with Royals too much no just like Fortnum and Mason's as you do I love scones like scones yeahones I didn't expect that you've been hanging around with Royals too much nah just like Fortnum and Mason as you do I love scones like scones yeah

because I'm not a big dessert I like brownies and jelly and ice cream sort of but scones yeah oh my god I'm going to have to get some scones today

I've started it I'm going to add you in the story I'm like Steve I've got scones like clotted cream yeah clotted cream and jam oh my god

my mouth is watering I am going for scones and then for cream yeah clotted cream and jam oh my god my mouth is watering I am going for scones and then for the drink I'll have a ginger beer oh really old Jamaica ginger beer like banging with some hot chocolate

and the thing I'm not really I've never drunk coffee in my life like people always one like always oh let's have an espresso

I like cafe patron but I've never had coffee so I feel like when if I give into coffee when I'm tired that's just gonna be I like Café Patron but I've never had coffee so I feel like if I give into coffee when I'm tired that's just going to be I know people that wake up and that's it

I have coffee every day but yeah that's my meal yeah it's dope a little bit of everything and you clearly are a foodie and you've got that

sort of African you know heritage Jamaican heritage which is Caribbean heritage which is dope we've got there in the end

yeah listen thank you so much for your time today really appreciate it thank you for having me on SB the other SB maybe that's the podcast

you should start SB yeah just do some SB's first I'll do you and then I'll do Still Bangles every SB that'd be dope that'd be dope

who else is there I don't know get thinking anyway thank you bro appreciate it nice one pleasure safe I don't know get thinking anyway thank you bro appreciate it nice one pleasure safe thanks