The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Eddie Hearn on Selling Matchroom For 5 Billion

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

In this week’s episode I sat down with the man who is putting British boxing on the map, Eddie Hearn. You’ll probably know him as a confident, boisterous, loud promoter. But when you dig a little deeper, I found something else, something much more revealing, something that made me unsure whether I should feel sorry for him, or be impressed by him. During our discussion he shared so many pieces of valuable information from his journey climbing to the very top of the business ladder… and he isn’t finished yet! Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one, just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio.

And thirdly to Amazon Music who, when they heard that we were expanding to the United States and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. Oh my God, Eddie Hearn. What a guy. There's very few people. No, I'm going to change that. I've never met someone as neurotically obsessed with success and with winning and with accomplishing things and with living a life in constant forward motion as my next guest, Eddie Hearn. And it's remarkable because when you unpack the reasons for that obsession

and that dedication to being more and achieving more, there's quite a fragile, vulnerable, insecure story. That's something I've noticed with a lot of my guests. And it often makes me think that the most successful amongst us aren't necessarily choosing to be. Something's happened to them that's left them with no choice. Eddie Hearn is one of the most notorious sports promoters in the world. He's the king of boxing in this country. He is known for his no-context-hand Twitter page, which I'm sure a lot of you have seen. But what I wanted to do when I sat down with Eddie Hearn was to get underneath, to get underneath the external sort of braggadocious, loud promoter side of him, and to find out, even in the case

of someone like Eddie, who is loud, who is successful, who is ambitious, who is a promoter, are the same things true for him that are true for you? The insecurities, the vulnerabilities, the mental health issues. And how much does he really understand himself? My conversation with Eddie was incredibly enlightening. But it also wasn't that surprising. So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody is listening. But if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

You've done a ton of interviews, especially over the last couple of weeks, and there's this really consistent theme that I felt in all of the interviews I watched. I watched you at Cambridge, the High Performance Podcast, loads of them. And then before we started filming today, I had a chat with Frank and he fully grasped on you. Now, what he said to me, which was also consistent with these interviews,

is that you are relentless. And he was telling me he's had some, I probably shouldn't say this, but he was telling me, he said, I've started having this, is it night owl or night nurse because eddie will text me in the middle of the night and he went i'll tell you one thing about eddie he is relentless you're what 40 41 41 years old what's made you that relentless at 41 years old to the point where you're pestering your colleagues at 3am in the morning? I don't know, really.

I think when I did the book, it was quite a good counselling session with myself because I wasn't really great at school. I wasn't particularly a hard worker at school i loved the pound note always and when i wrote the book it just i started writing about my childhood and what it was like growing up and how i was molded and i think a lot of it comes down to the fact that i love to win. And I'm a... Why did you love to win? I don't know, because with my dad, that's what we did. So when we played cricket, when we played football, when we played table tennis, when we sparred with each other, it was like, for me growing up, you weren't... I would come back from a match, say I played cricket,

and he would go to me. Actually, my mum was the same. And he would say to me, how many runs did you get today, son? And I would say, oh, no, four. Oh, useless. Come on. Next time, knock in a 50. Right?

It was never, oh, well, well done, son. You know, you took part. That's what really matters. They taught me taking part is completely and utterly irrelevant. You win. And ultimately, sport is how I was brought up. I was brought up on the foundations of sport, the lessons of sport, the winning, the losing, the highs, the lows,

but always taught that winning was everything. And I'm a failed athlete. I think any kid growing up would love to be a sportsman, wouldn't they? I played cricket at a very good level, but I was never good enough at anything. So this is the next best thing. But I think if you're not trying to win in life

and winning means something different to everybody. Success means something different to everybody. Some people view success as being able to get their pay packet on a weekend, you know, be able to, you know, spend time with their family and have enough food on the, you know, make enough money to have food on the table and make sure everything's okay at home and be happy, you know, and have a happy life with no stress or no drama. That's success to a lot of people.

But people's interpretation of success is very different. And for me, I still don't know why I do this. But like you say, I love it, I guess. That's what it comes down to, a passion for what you do. And I don't know what the passion is. Is it the passion that I love the sport of boxing? Is it passion that i want to succeed against you know and be bigger than my dad i think that's a big part of it as well or is it just that i love to win or is it that i'm a bit sick in the head maybe all of them the sick in the head point i want to play with that idea a little

bit um i i write i wrote in my book actually we have the same publisher i wrote in my book that the thing that invalidates you when you're younger becomes the thing you seek validation from when you're older. And what I meant by that is like in my childhood, because we didn't have money and I was this black kid in a school of 1500 white kids, everything that we didn't have became the things that I chased when I was older.

Or the thing that made me feel somewhat invalid sometimes when I was a kid, like you're saying about your dad saying, you lost today, became the thing that I would seek validation from as as a as an adult and i wondered if that resonated with you at all i mean like a lot of different background i mean my dad was poor became rich and i was born so i've said before it's not like when when you talk about generational wealth we didn't have generational wealth um i had a dad who was from dagnam was from a council estate his dad was a bus driver and then i grew up in this sort of nouveau world where this bloke had made his money and he was

you know i'll take the mickey out of him i suppose he was a bit of a chav you know he was like from dagnam and all of a sudden he's got Ferraris and big cars and we used to have a white limo and a black limo that would drive like the snooker players around and the fighters around and I was horrible I was obnoxious imagine like a 14 15 year old kid hanging around with Eubank and Naz and then you're in a limo with your mates going up to London or to Romford for a night out I mean I look back and just cringe. But mine was different. And I guess when it comes down to it, and again, from the book and speaking to people like Frank Lampard,

he went to my school. He was in the year above me. At my school, I was Barry Hearn's son. And Frank Lampard was Frank Lampard's son. His dad played for West Ham. and it's a different kind of drive if you can make it flow in the right way you know when you're talking about sort of mindset and and and hustle where all of a sudden i think so many people with successful parents end up just doing okay you know but how do you go beyond that how do you outperform everything that

he done and i will and i feel like i've done that in many ways but i will never be able to outperform the fact that he came from nothing my friends are my friend is in a very similar position you if i said my friend's name you'd know the guy okay his dad is a multi-billionaire i know you know him because i've seen you with him before actually in new york but um his dad is a multi-billionaire and he grew up with living in the shadow and his dad was the same and i had a conversation with him and he said um it was all i was always trying to be better than my dad he is now a billionaire himself of his own doing um but it's just it's fascinating that and his dad sounds very similar to what your dad sounds where his dad was tough on him tough on him i think they're tough I think they're tough on you

because they don't want you to be that spoiled kid. I mean, you always want to spoil your kids. You want to give them the great... Even now, I've got two daughters. I love to spoil them. I work hard so I can give them a great life. But I just want them to understand manners, respect and discipline.

These are the three most important things and he would make sure that i would understand that even by having me working you know giving me a clout every now and again you know trying to keep because i it must have been frustrating for him because i was probably all the things that he resented when he was growing up you had a rich kid with with parents who had got big house and cars and I would have hated me at school, you know, but he would have looked at me and that's why he was so disciplined with me. And I was in his slipstream growing up.

So I would sit, you know, we're here now. That was my house over there. So he would get home from work if he was in the country. You know, he would always go out and give me a game of football or cricket. And then he would go in the office all night on the phone. And I would have dinner and I would just sit in the office. I might have a ball, just throwing it up in the air. But I would subconsciously listen to the arguments and him losing his temper.

And just listen, not because I wanted to learn, just because I was there. And you're talking there about the sacrifice of his success, which is one of them, as you've highlighted, is less time with your family. You are relentless. Everybody says that. What is the cost of being a relentless person? You have to be incredibly selfish.

You have to, you know, for me, family is the most important thing, but I have to be brutally honest and say, I don't let even family get in the way of things that I have to do. And that can make you an arsehole and it can make you sound terrible, but I just don't know any way around it. There is no way you can be the perfect husband or the perfect father and run a successful business or be a relentless operator. It's impossible because I know, because I try to balance both. But when you're flying back from America from a show

and you land at seven o'clock in the morning and then you go to Manchester for a press conference and then you come home and you just make it to pick them up from school and then you get back and they say, Dad, Dad, let's go over to the park. And you're just absolutely on empty and your phone's going and you're trying to do another deal

and you're pushing the swing and you're going like this, trying to send a message at the same time. It's impossible. Listen, I know because sometimes my eldest daughter is old enough to say, Dad, please get off the phone. And that kills me because that's bad to's bad to hear you know i'm like okay okay but then 30 seconds later i'm back just

haven't looked down because it's a lifestyle you know and it's impossible to be great at anything without making sacrifices you know it doesn't matter if you're a fighter if you're a sportsman you speak to all successful people you can't be everything it's impossible you know and and but what you don't want to do is you don't want to disregard your obligations your family obligations because they are extremely important but you also need a wife or a partner who's understanding enough to say this is what i know what he's like he won't stop and that's why when frank talks about 3 a.m 4 a.m that's because a lot of the time I'm sort of making up for the hour or two that I've lost out playing with the kids.

So I'll put them to sleep. They'll go to sleep at 9, half 9, you know, chill out with a wife for an hour. She'll go to sleep, and then I'm up. And now with the growth in America, it means that at 4 p.m., 5 p.m., the West Coast wakes up. So I can't go to bed. I can't disappear when it gets to 11am on the West Coast or midday on the West Coast because they want to speak to me

and we want to do business. I am much earlier in my career, maybe 15 years earlier in my career, and I've struggled with romantic love for the very same reason that for the last decade I've slept in the office multiple weekends. I've struggled with romantic love for the very same reason that for the last decade, I've like slept in the office multiple weekends. I've been obsessed. I would basically sacrifice everything. And there became this moment in my life where I think it was maybe the day that someone

tried to buy the company. And I thought about what I'd spend it on. And I remember going home and I swear on my mother's life, I went on Rightmove and Autotrader at the same time. I had two tabs open and I'm like the Lamborghini. I thought you were going to say Tinder. No, no, can say tinder no no no no that's that that always follows the lamborghini so I was looking at this lamborghini in this mansion the countryside and then I thought if I buy these things I'm trading like this purpose I have this job this

you know for for this lamborghini in this mansion and it felt really really empty and then I thought but Steve you know when you were 18 and you were broke and you had no money, 18 year old Steve said, wrote in your diary, this is why it's called the driver's year, that you wanted the sports car, the million before you were 25. This was what we did it for. And then it threw my head into this like confusion.

It's like, if it's not that, if that's gonna make me feel empty, they call it like gold medal depression where Michael Phelps won all the medals and then got depressed, then what's it all for? And then also, when does it all end? Like, when does it end? Well, it doesn't end because,

and actually you're always searching. This is a problem and something you have to be careful of because when you are trying to succeed and when you're trying to become great, actually the great people, they never feel content with achievement. And I'm very much like that.

Frank Lampard, again, going back to him, he said that when he won the champions league, he's always dreamed of winning the champions league. And he stood there at a trophy and he felt nothing. I mean, he felt happy,

but definitely not content. Definitely not. I've cracked it. That might go back to the sickness, you know, that we talked about earlier. And when we talk about sickness, I mean, probably not medically sick, but sick in the head a little bit to a point where I get it all the time. You know, we say that, you know, we wanted to do, you know, when AJ turned pro, we wanted him to be the world heavyweight champion.

You know, he won that. Great. We was in the ring after jumping up and down as soon as we got out the ring the yeah and then it's like okay we want to do something out you know we got the klitschko fight okay you go through it 90 000 at wembley you stand there everyone that was at the event tells you it's a great sporting occasion they've ever been to. How do you feel? At the time, amazing. In the ring, amazing. Day after. And then not even the day after.

I never go out really and I never drink really after a show because that's probably, you know, depressed is the wrong word, but I go back, you know, I finish the media obligations two, three o'clock in the you i go back you know i finish the media obligations two three o'clock in the morning go back to the hotel and that is when i'll sit there get into bed and then obviously you can't sleep because the buzz and the adrenaline and that's when you just feel a little bit low and empty is that okay it's over same with what you talk about with phelps it's the highs versus the lows you can't just experience the highs and then be happy with the lows. So you want more and more and more and more.

And I'm my own biggest critic and I'm also very pessimistic, which is strange to a lot of people, but I kind of use it to play tricks on myself to keep myself driven. So when I do something or when I plan something, I always say to myself, there's going to be problems. I think it's going to go wrong. I doubt this will happen. You know, I don't know why I do something or when I plan something I always say to myself there's going to be problems

it's I think it's going to go wrong I doubt this will happen you know I don't know why I do it but it just helps me to battle away to overcome everything to get to the place and then when I achieve something which others might think is great I say to myself that's nothing you got a long way to go because I'm scared of sitting back you know with the the cigar on the beach and going I've cracked it you can't touch me you know and we got to a position with UK boxing where you know we are virtually untouchable but I just don't want to be that guy who takes the foot off the gas I want to bang every single nail in the coffin you know and then move on to another market and another market another market but you do get the worry with that mindset is you may look back when you're 80 or 90 and go wow you know look at everything you've

done you never really enjoyed it did you i mean i love what i do but you probably should savor it a little bit more than you do but again it goes back to that mindset of being so driven you want the next drug success is a drug but you've got to be careful that doesn't turn you into an arsehole at the same time because how many successful people do you know absolute arseholes arseholes horrible rude no manners obnoxious what's it done do you ever find moments where you think fuck i was just an arsehole then i think that it's just time for people you know you end up being it's not that you can turn into that if you're not one. But when you become busy, it's a bit like, you know, when people say that, oh, he's changed.

Of course he's changed. His life's changed. You know, his responsibility's changed. His business has changed. You can't expect him to say the same people. And, you know, when you have a group of friends, when you all come out of school and sort of you're going from there and you're talking every day and the ones that sort of grow the friendships are still as strong but you just don't talk to each other every week every day because you've got your own life you've got your own vision you've got your own plans but you

still go for lunch and you get on better than ever and you make but and it's the ones that say oh he's not no he's don't talk to us anymore i ain't got time mate but this is goes back to the sacrifices you know if i fall out with friends because of what i'm trying to achieve in my own personal life and my business so be it i know again that that sounds you know and it's not about being a bad friend or a bad person but you you can't you can't worry about other people as long as you're a good person as long as you do the right thing the fact that you don't have time at the moment but that's when you people might perceive you to be an arsehole you know you talked a little bit about that about being 80 years old and looking back on your life i'm gonna just play a little uh a little game with you so we've got to imagine.

Imagine that what day of the week was it? I think it was Tuesday today. Tuesday. So Friday, you find out that Friday's your last day on Earth. My question is, and really put yourself there, right? So Friday's your last day on Earth. All the fights coming up, AJ, Fury, all falls away. What do you immediately regret? That's actually something that i've thought about quite a

lot and the reason was is um about four months ago my granddad passed away he was 93 great life you know and when i went to see him in his last couple of days you know and he obviously didn't look great and i looked at him i thought wow life's crazy isn't it I said everything that you've done in your life and now you're laying here about to leave so when you get experiences like that just you have to be reminded sometimes that this is a game life is a game we're only on borrowed time right and you can never take yourself too seriously I think that's one thing I do well is I love to have a laugh and I don never take yourself too seriously. I think that's one thing I do well, is I love to have a laugh and I don't take myself too seriously.

In answer to your question, since that moment, I've been thinking a lot about, if I, you know, if I went now, do you look back and say, I couldn't have done any more?

I had a great time. And I think the answer is yes. I mean, we can all do better. But my dad is an inspiration out of respect because he's the kind of person that couldn't have squeezed one more drop out of his life right so i'm quite envious of that he's 73 and who knows how long he's gonna last but i do feel like it's very important that when you get to whatever stage when god says that's enough for you,

that you are able to look back and say, I couldn't have done any more. And that scares me a little bit because... I want to know exactly what, when you think about more, you're saying I could have done more. You find out that this Friday is your last day. What are the things where you think,

do you know what? Because I think that moment, that the the that moment like the the deathbed moment puts everything in perspective it does but i think in that moment your emotions are very different to when you're well and fit and on the hustle and just you know so you don't get a chance to reflect on that kind of moment until you're there yeah and the obvious reflection at that point is i wish i would have spent more time with my family. You know, I wish I would have been less focused, probably, on work.

But I'm not a believer in, you know, the thoughts then are not the thoughts now. And you have to act on the moment. You can't live your life saying, well, blimey, when I'm on my deathbed, you might look back and, because I don't think you can plan like that. You have to do what's in your heart.

You have to do what feels right. And what feels right for me right now is this. What might feel right then is, do you know what? Should have probably missed a few trips really and just done the school run a little bit more. And I know that, you know, you have to, you really have to understand where you are in life. This is great for your mental health as well and your sanity you've got to be honest with yourself and and you've got to understand the situation i know exactly where i'm at what i'm thinking what i'm doing the

sacrifices i'm making what i could do better at what i'd you know but i'm okay with it you know you can't get the perfect balance but as long as you understand what is going on and you're not deluded you're not stubborn i know i know i need to do more at home i know i need to do more school runs i know i need to be less short with the wife sometimes but can you there's a couple of points here that i think are super interesting so um that that deathbed moment what i think it's doing and i've never been there you've not been there but what i think it's doing is it's telling you what actually mattered because to some degree i think that it's it's like with that hindsight you can say fuck that person criticizing my hair or my cut or this none of

that fucking ever mattered all of that was trivial the things that mattered were as you say like my niece or my you know so i think that's what that moment that the things that mattered were as you say like my niece or my you know so i think that's what that moment but that comes over time how old are you now 27 okay you're a baby yeah right when i was 27 what what people thought of me really mattered you know i mean listen i've been working out for 35 years just to stay fat you know the barn it's going a little bit i could not give a monkeys now at your age oh mate i was you know i might have been jack the lad i might have been turning up that but deep down you know it'd only take one of the boys to say you know tell you what ed you're putting on a bit of timber there oh look look your barn it's creeping back what what do you mean what

do you mean now okay yeah mate i know this is sign of the times, isn't it? So being comfortable with yourself is the best feeling in life. It's the best feeling in life. And I think when I was growing up at school, I wasn't subconsciously. I think I had a massive chip on my shoulder, and that's why I was a bit of a knob, to be quite honest. But when you get comfortable with yourself, it's a beautiful thing in life. It really is. When you wake up in the morning, you've always got to try for me

and look good and feel good and be the best version of yourself you can be. But you do get to a stage and that's actually when you become really powerful and effective. You know, it's the same kind of thing. You know, when you're young and you're courting or you're looking for a young lady to show you some interest. You know, when you try really hard and you're sort of on edge and you're a bit, oh, I don't really like my hair, oh, God. You know, the ones that walk into the bar and just go, oh, mate, you know, I know I'm not the best,

but, you know, they're the ones that everybody gravitates to. Anyone with a smile on their face always creates so much more energy and flow than the people that don't. And that's about being comfortable in yourself so i think that it's very difficult with everything you've achieved at your age to just know where you're going or what you're doing i'm done do you know i mean i'm married i've got two kids i've got busy i'm struggling to balance everything you know but i'm here you

know i'm not gonna roll back the the years and do this and do that and I know exactly what I'm doing I know exactly where I'm at I know exactly what I'm focusing on and that life starts to become a lot easier then at your age you know I went to work I left college after my levels I went to work for five years in sports management companies and event management companies I was a sports agent on the PGA tour in America. I had no idea where I was going. I mean, I just wanted to be successful. I wanted to earn money, you know. But the mindset of, or the changing mindset over the years is unbelievable.

I always say to people, you know, what matters to you now, you will look back on when you get to my age and go, I can't believe I even used to worry about stuff like that and that that's important because i feel like people that are very successful you know you did it at a very young age very impressive because i think it takes time now when i did the cambridge uh talk the other day you know you're sitting down with all these young i mean i'm i'm i'm street smart and i can sell right these people are like yeah but i'm jealous of boffins i used to take the mickey out of boffins i'm jealous of boffins now i find intellectual people fascinating i love talking

to them and just trying to learn and absorb and i'm sitting in this room of people and they're listening to me and i'm thinking you know firstly you must be listening to me thinking this bloke who is he what is he a car used car dealer or something like that and then but i'm i'm talking around i'm saying to you what do you want to do well uh you know what what is success to you they've not got clue and it's not because they're at oxford and they're deluded it's because that's just it's very difficult at that age to understand I don't believe anyone at 40 looks back at what they were thinking at 20 and said yeah I had this plan I'm there now and this is what I always wanted to do so it takes time to develop a passion for something and that that is the that's a key word passion because when we talk about

being relentless and we talk about this work ethic you can only have it if you love what you do and if you have a passion for what you do i don't think you can trick yourself you can but you can't be as good you know you know you said um earlier that you you feel like you're self-aware of like the the lack of balance in your life because you've got this real relentless streak you've got this family and you're self-aware of it. Do you think, as much as you're aware of it, do you think deep inside you, you really have a choice? Or do you think you're being somewhat dragged by your own ambition?

Because this is what I find fascinating about people, successful people, is it tends to be the case that like me, I'm aware I need to see my niece more, but I just sometimes don't feel like i'm fully in control well i i do it because it's what i want to do ultimately i mean i do have an obligation you know i do have responsibilities i'm talking about in the workplace you know we've got a fantastic team here but ultimately when we're announcing a show when we're doing a press conference when we do they want me sure they want their flesh so they roll me out and i'm just like i'm like a traveling salesman right eddie we're announcing this show today off

you go right here we go back in the car here we go you know so but i do it because i enjoy it because i love it because i have an obligation to do it for the business that my father created. And I've, my responsibility now is to take that to the next level. You know, he built this from the foundations from nothing. I'm not going to let it just fizzle out as he goes into his eighties.

I want to take it to the next level. But the difference is, is I don't have to do this. You know, I'm not looking at this and it's my way out you know I just

if I just make some money I can you know I can buy the Lamborghini I could have done that at 21 but imagine the Eddie that doesn't do this imagine what

how he'd feel but the same thing that was me at school you know that was the kid telling the teachers I don't have to do that you know and that

can't that runs shivers down me. Give me some advice on, cause you've got, you're married and I genuinely, genuinely, it sounds crazy, but I'm like,

you've managed to crack. It seems like, cause you're married, crack the balance of being relentless on one end, but then managing to find a person or to at least keep them happy to some degree but i genuinely i started to think of the last couple years i'm like how am i going to find someone that understands that i want to send text messages at 4am in the morning and that i sometimes don't want to talk to them and that when i'm sat next to them i'll be quiet for seven hours because

i've just got an email that i'm thinking about and so i'm like is it you have to find the right person is it something you say to them i think they need to know you they need to know what drives you i mean if you had a conversation with my wife and you said what what is he like you know she'd just go well he's just in his own world isn't he i mean the amount of times you know that moment where you get home and they go right i need to talk to talk to you. And you go into the kitchen and they go, right, now, Isabella, you know, I spoke to her teacher today and what, I'm gone, right? So I'm going and I'm thinking that contract's got to be in at 9pm, you know, blah, blah, blah. And she goes to me, what did I say?

And I go, the school, what? But it's not like, and she'll she'll go listen we have blazing rounds you know you're so selfish all you care about is work but again it just gets to a point

where you just have to understand life you just nothing's perfect you know you've got two people that love each other

I've known her since you know my twenties I've I've changed we've both changed a lot over the years, but we've changed together and we've grown together. And this is what I do. And I would have had that conversation with her at some point many years ago

to the point saying, look, nothing's going to get in my way. I don't mean to sound horrible. And I love you. And, you know, I want to spend the rest of my life with you. But you have to understand me you have to understand that this is extremely important to me not don't say this is the most important thing to me because that'll get you bang in trouble but you know this is extremely important to me and I think because she's been around my family because she knows how important it is to us she kind of just just gets it, you know, and there'll be times where she'll say,

did I hear you on the phone last night at five o'clock in the morning? I say, yeah, you know, we was doing the Canelo deal or, you know, AJ deal or, and she'll just look at me and go, but over time, you know, I think the most difficult thing is the early stages of dating

because it's very difficult for a woman, they want your attention. You know, people sometimes think that women want, you know, money and, you know, a nice house. And of course, everybody does. But they don't really. They want your attention and they want your company and they want your time.

And there are three things that are very difficult to do when you live that kind of lifestyle. So you do have to, you we'll do i'll race back from somewhere and i'll say right you know tonight let's go out for dinner and i'll be naked i don't you know hopefully she don't listen to this i really don't want to go for dinner tonight but you have to do it and that's what my dad has kind of always taught me son you gotta do you got to do, you've got to respond. We're big family people. My mum, he's from the East End.

She's old school. As far as they're concerned, the man goes out and puts the bread on the table and the wife looks after the man. Old, old, old world. That don't exist anymore. But every morning

or every night, my mom will iron my dad a shirt and she will put it on his on the door for him in the morning if you want if your wife right say i say we put her in this room we sat her down with god and we said listen you can decide what happens next with eddie and his career right so you can we can bring it to an end and he'll spend more time with you or what do you reckon she would do? If she could make the decision on your relentlessness and your career, how do you honestly think she would make that decision? I think she, because she knows how important it is to me, I think she would say, no, he needs to do it, he has to do it.

But I think the hope is that there is an end place or an end goal for me. Yeah. But for me, I don't, whether in 20 years time, we play this back. I don't think I want to be 70, you know,

maybe even 60, 70, 80 doing this, dealing with problems. And listen, maybe I won't even make it that long. But for me, I definitely have the mindset of, not I want to get in and get out,

but I do want to get that moment where I do sit on the beach with a cigar. I don't even smoke cigars, but, you know, and a whiskey, don't even like whiskey, but, you know. I can imagine the picture at least and go, do you know what? We've done it. We've done well. whiskey but you know i couldn't imagine the picture at least and go do you know what we've done it we've done well but walking away is the thing that at the moment would kill me you know

to be able imagine when you wrap up shop and you know this might be i mean for us we've gone from being a family business you know to having four employees to now all of a sudden having hundreds of employees in multiple offices around the world we're being approached by for for investment for takeover for ipos and now we're sort of at that stage of growth where i don't know i just see i see i see a faster exit strategy than my dad at least that's what i'm selling to her you know just give me a few more years just give me a few more years but i do want to go and enjoy because i can't say i'm not enjoying myself because i love what i do but i do want that moment to just you know but it's the walking away you know how do you just one day turn around and

yeah you might sell the business or you know you might float and you take a more of a backseat role that's difficult because we make our own decisions we're a hands-on business that's what we love we've turned down investment and opportunities for years because we don't want to, I don't want to ball the directors. We make the decisions and we do what we want to do because we love what we do.

But when you see such growth and you see such interest and you see the opportunity for, you know, a much vaster wealth, being quite honest, do you want it? And if you want it it what's the exit strategy because at the moment the exit strategy for our family is from the day you start working from the

day you die you work your nuts off every single day i mean it's not particularly advanced is it that strategy but that's just what we've always done mental health big topic you know especially over the last 10 years i think if you go back well 10 years ago and you said the word mental health people think people are crazy right they think like you know run away from that person but now it's become like the opposite it's like oh someone's got you know it's become something of where you'd give someone affection and you'd take care of them because the stigma is somewhat changed we know the stats around male mental health have you ever suffered from any sort of mental health um

predicaments i don't think so no i mean i think again depression's one of those things a bit like yoga and breathing and stuff we were talking about earlier if you would have said to me 10 years ago this is maybe even five or six years ago, so-and-so's suffering from depression. If your perception of that person is, well, he's young, he's good-looking, he's healthy, he's rich, he's successful, how can he be struggling from depression? What a load of rubbish. And actually, it takes the older generation even longer.

I mean, I think my dad's only just accepted now that it exists with people because his mentality is, what? Dust yourself down. What's the matter with you? And that's wrong because it is real, you know,

and it does exist. I don't, you know, have I had days where I've been feeling incredibly down? Yeah. But surely that's normal. You know, I don't see myself suffering from that. And I think mental health problems and depression, I think it comes from overthinking.

You know, my brother-in-law is hilarious. I've never known anyone who just overthinks and worries about stuff. You know, you're going to be having a conversation, you'll go, I've just been thinking about that, you know, and if that happens, I was thinking, you know, next year, you could be there, and then from there, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? Just when you're struggling mentally,

focus on the short term. Focus on day by day. I think sometimes people look at, and this is the same for business, when you have a project or a long-term plan there are so many short-term obstacles and goals to overcome to get there that's why how many times you spoke someone got this idea you know i'm gonna be doing this and that and then a month later you've not even heard about it oh well what happened was we launched and

then you know the council came in or the regulation board came in and this other company tried to do this. It's like, no, because you didn't focus on the short-term goals. All you were worried about was the house and the Lamborghini and you weren't prepared to tick the boxes to get there. So sometimes when I'm a little bit off or might be travelling a lot and the equilibrium's gone and it's like, okay, so I'm just going to write down what I'm going to do today. And it can be really menial stuff.

It could be walk the dog. It could be finalise a contract. It could be go to the gym. It could be go and get some food from M&S. Just to focus yourself a little bit. Just to say. And I would tick everyone off. Really?

Yeah, and I would say, at the end of the day, I would look at it and I would go, done. And that's the momentum back that that's where you get the feeling of accomplishment even even on tiny things to say okay i'm moving in the right direction for me that that is a big help for me is short-term focus because once you start worrying about what's going to happen next week or next month or next year control no and you're going to start driving yourself crazy you've just got to say okay this is what i need to do today and tomorrow i need to do the same thing and then before you know it you'll start making positive changes you'll start achieving because you know what what you've set the targets you've set yourself you are achieving you're a bit of a philosopher i don't know if you realize because um there's a great famous philosopher

that says uh depression is too much of the past and anxiety is thinking too much about the future. And he says the cure is more now. And that's pretty much what you've described. Yeah, that is true. Because you can't worry about things that may or may not happen. And you can't change things that have already happened. What you can do is change what is happening today.

And it's simple to do that. Again, in the book, I ran a marathon, one marathon, right? Because my dad ran loads and he took the mic out. I mean, I had to do it. And it's the book, I ran a marathon, one marathon, right? Because my dad ran loads and he took the mic out. I mean, I had to do it. And it's the same kind of thing. You start the marathon, you think 26 miles.

If you start thinking about running 26 miles, I mean, it did give me anxiety attacks to start with. I was thinking, that's just ridiculous. I've never done more than 10K. And then you train and you train and you train and you build. And then every mile marker is an obstacle. You start off, you think 26 miles, blimey. And you go one, two, three, four, five, and you're okay.

And then you're 12, 13, you think, I've done half. And you get to 18, 19, you think, I can't do it anymore. And you think, just get to 20, get to 20, 21. And when you see that 20 mile marker, you know, and then you get to 20 and you go do you know what i've still got six miles i can't do it and you go 21 22 23 and then when it's all over you can look back but if you start worrying about the future you're going to gas out you're not going to make it do you feel that anxiety sometimes in those big moments where

you've got you know something's coming up and you just can't stop thinking about it um in my business it was actually the first you know i heard this term mental health and i think at the start i thought no it's not real and then a couple of years in i saw a lot of people i start hearing you know friends of mine and stuff going through really bad things i'm like i think it's real and then i got to this point where i was almost scared to admit that it would be real because i almost felt like if i admitted it was real then I'm like welcoming the possibility into myself of like labelling myself something. And then there was one moment

where I had this really big decision to make in New York and I'm laying in the hot tub in Manchester and I just got really anxious. And I was anxious for about four days up until the point of the decision. And then I thought that's probably the closest I've come to some kind of mental health predicament is that real anxious feeling that I couldn't shake.

I think social media is horrendous as well. I've made the decision in the last couple of years, year specifically, to start ignoring and blocking out a lot of... You're a celebrity now. Yeah. It's a new thing, isn't it? But when I was coming through,

when I was overturning the system the support was unreal and i was really feeding off that i mean anyone that says you know they're not affected by criticism or they're not worried about i mean it's a load of rubbish of course you don't like people criticizing you and by the way you love people patting you on the back and championing you of course it's natural what things get to you though stuff that people like the personal stuff couldn't give it couldn't give a monkey's about it's more about the it's more about people when you're putting the work in something and you're so passionate about something and you're actually working for the good of might be the sport or whatever it's the people that just

you know presume see you completely differently so that's the frustration but over the last couple of years i just started thinking to myself what are you i was having a conversation my old man my old man's on twitter right and he phoned me up and he go i'm having an argument with this geezer on twitter right and he was going on about the snooker in the format and i said to him i'm like whoa whoa whoa i said are you serious i said who is one who is this boat i said you imagine someone stopping you on the street and having having a pop at you about the snooker format but it also it's it's the platform that made us what we are it got us to the top you know the interaction with the fans and the understanding

of their mindset so we can't just you, but it's become a toxic place. It really has, you know, and I worry for my kids. You know, sometimes one of them will be on TikTok and she'll put a dance out and someone will come back and say, you know, I don't know, you're ugly. You look really, you're stupid, you know, and it's like, we never had that in our day. I mean, we never even had a phone.

You know, if someone didn't like you, they might say something in the playground, but that's about it. So we never had that in our day and we never even had a phone you know if someone didn't like you they might say something in the playground but that's about it so we live in a world of criticism and I think it's a negativity

but that's what I said to my old man I said do you imagine like these people they're doing it all day I'll put a post out it's the same ones all the time

and I think you know even to the point where someone posted my phone number on Twitter right and I someone posted my phone number on Twitter, right? And I've had my phone number for 25 years. Same one, right?

And someone posted and went, give it, this is Eddie Hearn's number. Give him a call and, you know, tell him what you think about the pay-per-view price or whatever it is. And my phone was going mental. It was like every, literally all day it was just private number private number and i thought you know what you've got to change your number and i thought i can't be bothered so i started answering a few right and to this day this was a few years ago it's that people still do it and there's this one guy you've got the same number yeah i can't be bothered to change it right so this guy

private number private number private number and it's all day right so I pick it up and I go hello mate

and he goes oh bloody hell Eddie and I go yeah how you doing mate and he goes uh

um when you gonna stop ripping us off on the pay-per-views or something like that, right? And I go, and I went to him, mate, let's have a serious conversation. What are you doing? And he goes, what do you mean? What am I?

I said, have you got a job? And he's like, yeah. I said, you haven't, have you? And he's like, well, not at the moment. I said, what are you doing? I said, how many't, have you? And he's like, well, not at the moment. I said, what are you doing? I said, how many times have you phoned me today? I mean, the answer was like 40, right? I said, you can't focus.

I said, all the energy you're putting into phoning me because you think it's banter or it's some kind of accomplishment if I pick up the phone. I said, put it into something worthwhile. I said, because you're really's banter or it's some kind of accomplishment if I pick up the phone. I said, put it into something worthwhile. I said, because you're really wasting your life. And he just went quiet and he's like, oh, come on, Eddie,

what about a few quid off the pay-per-view? And I'm like, no, no, mate, I'm serious. But I want to help you out. You've got to change. And then he just hung up and i thought shit i hope it's all right but it's true isn't it what are you doing what are you doing i mean once might be quite funny you know i'll pick it up and you give me a bit but like all day every day you know because i'd hate to be one of those people that just wakes up every morning

with no fire in the belly with no passion with, with nothing. And there are, by the way, that's 95% of the population. Many people. That's why it's so important to me here to create an environment, a matchroom for the team where you enjoy being there. You know, we get food together,

we've got a gym, we've got a pool, we're all travelling away to events, we'll have a night out, we'll do that because you can't be in a job or a life where you're just flat how am i going to get the best out of you if you don't love what you do and it's very difficult to have that same passion when it's not your business you know so motivation is important but frank you know frank said to me he said he said uh you know

eddie's a eddie's a businessman that's that's where you came from your dad's a businessman too and with this new age of social media and all the interviews you do on YouTube, and you are relentless with the interviews as well, by the way. When I saw you in New York on that rooftop with the nice garden and stuff, you were back to back to back doing those interviews

with all these bloggers for three hours. That's helped grow the business. It's why most people know Matt Troom, especially of this generation. But it's made you a celebrity. And Frank said to me, he said, I don't think he's enjoying grow the business. It's why most people know Matchroom, especially of this generation. But it's made you a celebrity. And Frank said to me, he said, I don't think he's enjoying the celebrity thing, you know. And I think a lot of people would be really, really surprised to hear that

because, you know, people would, they think that you'd love it. They think you'd love the attention. I mean, promoters are in the business of attention, right? But from a personal perspective, apparently you don't like it. You don't like the celebrity. i then set out to be a celebrity and i set out to be a businessman i set out to um continue the success that that that my dad built but i do recognize that if i am well known if i am a showman if i am a celebrity it will help me push my events it will help me push the profile of fighters you know you get to a stage now where the industry haters might say oh

well it's ridiculous he's doing all these interviews you know he's more popular than most of his fighters you know more popular is the wrong word well known than some of his fighters but that's me you know and i look at the success of the u-known than some of his fighters. But that's me, you know, and I look at the success of the UFC. I look at the growth of that business and Dana White and every major fight sport product has that lead guy. In WWE, it's Vince McMahon. You know, in MMA, it's Dana White.

And in boxing, I guess it's me or, you know, I want it to be me. So there's a method to the madness and but you know the book the book was something that i wanted to do because i just thought it was funny that i would ever write a book right i don't think it's funny no but if you knew me at school and you knew i just it was more like hoda put it to me during before lockdown and when lockdown come i panicked and i was like oh and next you know talk about being at home with your kids now i'm at home with my kids and i've got no events and oh so i was just like for those first two weeks i was just

right we launched a fitness show with sky that people could do at home fighting fit you know i've said to the guys here give me that book deal i'll write it now let's do the book now and i wrote it in lockdown you know and and i was just zooms more zooms more interviews because i just i was just scared of not having that drive every single day of you know going out there and and and i didn't enjoy it like an illness it is an illness let's be honest we're all sick aren't we i mean like you can't do you can't wake up in the night every night and start writing emails doing contracts texting people and then wake up at seven and do the school run and then drive to work and do it all over again every single day unless you're a little bit ill in the head you can't actually be still like so

when you talk to her about that cigar moment in the future, sitting on that beach, I didn't believe you for a second. Yeah, you're probably right. But I just, I'd like to think that. So at least what I'm telling the missus that one day we'll be, we'll chill out. You know what I mean?

Could you imagine laying on a beach with a cigar like this? No emails, no nothing. Just no fights coming up, nothing. Just meditating. No, but I think it all depends where you get to. You know, it's like when you're building your stack at poker you know the problem with gambling is you never know when to walk away

right and we're not gambling anymore because we're very good at what we do but life is always a gamble so when you build your stack it's that moment when you say to the cashier can i get a rack please and you put it in your rack yeah and you go up to the cashier's moment when you say to the cashier, can I get a rack, please? And you put it in your rack. Yeah. And you go up to the cashier's desk and you say, cash that in for me. And they go. So.

And you walk away and you go, yeah. And then you get to sit down, you're going to have a nice beer. But that moment sucks. You said that moment. That moment doesn't suck. But then after, again, it's the thrill, isn't it? Yeah. I like to win

I like to people so the thing that would hurt me more is if I turn around tomorrow and went I couldn't have done any more in boxing I'm out

bye what would hurt me more is sitting on the beach not not you know enjoying myself going now I'm gone

all those people that I was fighting again for all those years to become number one, they've got no, they're back, you know, they're back,

and that's what, my dad walked away from boxing, because it is the most, aggravating business, an intense business, and that's what I'm saying about, all throughout the night, because everyone's trying to fuck you,

non-stop, right, so you have to sleep with one eye open, and I think he got to a stage where he went, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to go and do darts where everyone's going to love me. Do you know what I mean? And I'm jealous of him for that because I saw growing up

this guy that was so intense and who had a bad temper and, you know, and then all of a sudden, once boxing went, he was just chilled out. Wow, I can't believe what's happened to my life. So, you know, I hate to let people win. And if I left, ultimately they would win. But I guess the only time you can walk away is when you're content. And will the contentment ever come at the moment, like you say?

Possibly not. But who knows? You know, who knows where we can build to, where we can get to, where it might be that moment. And again, you have to always leave the option open because as i said your thoughts at 20 are totally different to your thoughts at 30 and 40 and 50 i may get to 50 and we may be you know i've had another great 10 years and i might go fire's not there anymore i'm done or i might be saying right now i want to take over music now i want to take over

football now i want to you know so it's difficult to say and with the family businesses they're a very special thing and in the world in the world we live in today with these big global corporations and the public markets growing it's very rare for a family business to withstand the temptation of acquisitions or going public or whatever what who can you don't have a son right and uh i'm wondering who continues the family business if you were to go down that route is it no well that's a good point because that is the conversation you know ever since i started to understand business more for me that that is a natural progression of a family business to go family business, you know, investment or acquisition or IPO.

And that's what you do. Because how do you, I have aspirations for this business to grow globally and to be staging events in every major territory in the world. You know, to do that does require huge investment, does require, you know, management, and we can do it, but that's not our speciality. Our speciality is creating great live events for our broadcasters and fans. Okay? So my dad has always said to me,

I will never, ever, ever take investment for the business, float the business or sell the business. And I've always over the years gone, yeah, but, you know, we got to get to it. And actually, the son thing's quite interesting. You know, I've been blessed with two amazing daughters. Of course, every man would quite like a son. Didn't work out. That's what god gave me but there is it's an interesting point because my end goal if i had a son and listen i'm only 41 who knows but i think it would be more you know here we go again

down the line kind of thing with me i would quite like to end the journey with my dad do you to say look at what we you know not it's gone but look at where we started look at where we finished because it's very difficult and i and i take the interest from you know hedge funds and you know investment funds with unbelievable amount of compliment to say wow you know and the calls are coming in non-stop because they appreciate the model of growth where when we talk about one sport one promoter one belt you know that mindset it's a carbon copy of the ufc now the uf UFC sold 4.6 billion there is no reason why boxing with so much more history

with so much more credibility with fans and broadcasters can't replicate that model and actually be even more valuable than the UFC business and I'm really the only chance it has to do it it's not going to be Bob Arum it's not going to be it. It's not going to be Bob Arum.

It's not going to be Don King. It's not going to be Frank Warren. It's going to be me. So all of a sudden, I've been giving interviews like that. And then the calls are coming. Well, right. We want, you know, and it's like, guys, we're not, we don't need it. We're not, if I wanted to go and get funding, if I wanted to go and float, I'd do it tomorrow.

But it's a big, it's a big, you know, headbutting system with me and me and my dad and you know he's starting to look and i'm just saying we can't just be blind to it it's a natural progression for any business in terms of growth to look at these models and but is that why you're doing the business because you know it's the happiness you've got from this business, I would guess, and I ran a public business until recently, much of it has come from loads of bullshit you don't necessarily want, right? Quarterly reporting, you've got to hit the numbers if you don't,

then you've got to do something short term that's not necessarily in the long-term interest of the business, right? So I'm almost quite jealous of the setup you have, the control you have, you have it in your family family and you're happy. But you're someone that almost needs forward momentum to continue to be...

You have growth, isn't it? You know that as a family business, you can see in our financial results, we're fantastic. We're a huge family business in terms of the numbers that we're delivering year on year end. Yes, huge. But at the same time,

you're almost capped by the growth and by the numbers within that setup. Yeah. You know, okay, so when you start, you turn a break-even business into a 5 million EBITDA company and then before you know it, the aim is 10 and 15 and now we're 30. And, you know, but how'd you get to four billion? Why does four billion matter?

That's just the UFC number. Yeah. So, but because why it matters is it was never on the agenda. It was never possible. It could never be done. And I guess it goes back to the competition with my dad where i'm saying you know i believe you know when you talk about p ratios and the

value of a business yeah we know what we're worth now but i do believe we have the potential to be worth those kind of numbers and that would be your success in some respects it's a game it's a game steve it's i don't know it's not like I don't I don't think that deeply to I just see it as a game

but when you start thinking deeply it doesn't make you question so yeah it's a good point why does I don't know I just I live in the moment

I live in now I just feel that every day we're trying to expand we're trying to push the boundaries we're trying to do more so

would I like to this business to you know sell or have a value of four fucking right why because it could it's ridiculous we're just a couple of like he's out of dagnum i'm his son it'd be a great story yeah but it it's just it's us against the world because the money would do to be honest nothing you know the money wouldn't change my lifestyle at all i I've got a couple of nice cars, right? I've got a nice house. I don't want a yacht.

I don't want a jet. I don't want, I mean, well, I mean, we'll talk about it. But, you know, I don't want for anything. I'm not, I'm at the age now, maybe when I was in my 20s, yeah, wow, you get a private jet and a yacht. You just rent it if you need it. So it's just, it's just the fact that what we've done i think i think legacy is um i was talking to freddie flintoff on my pod yesterday and i said

i said about legacy and he went you know i think legacy is a load of bollocks i actually i disagree a little bit because you know when you go back to that moment where you're on your deathbed and it might be today or, and when you've achieved something like that, you just start laughing. And you go, I can't believe we've done it. I can't believe we've done it. And that would be the better kind of memories or the achievement to me. You know, can you believe we've done it?

But you've got to enjoy it at the same time. But, you know, I don't know. You can debate this all day long because you sit back on the deathbed and you say yeah but was i really happy well of course because this is bringing us happiness this is i know that every day i come in here and i'm smiling and i'm up for it and i'm passionate and i'm full of energy and i've got a drive and a fire in my belly that's good enough for me my dad comes in every day he day. He's been coming in, you know, into this business for 50, 45 years

and he's got the same passion, the same energy that he did when he first started the company. That's got to tell you something. And this is almost somewhat of a contradiction because he's coming in here every day. You're both really, really happy.

You're coming in here with a fire in your belly, but then there's this other part of you that's like but we need the end point he doesn't he doesn't he he he doesn't want any of that you know he's going no son we've got the most amazing business you know we're forecasted to just for continued growth for the next five ten years we've got broadcast contracts locked in we We're untouchable. And I'm like, yeah, but how do we go? You know, I want offices. You know, we have offices in England,

in New York, in Milan, in Madrid. I want offices in Sydney, in Toronto, in Mumbai, in Beijing. That's what I want. Why? Because we're not supposed to have it. We were never supposed to be this business. We were never supposed to be this business. I was never supposed to be this kid. So it sounds like you're proving something to someone.

Maybe, but probably to him. And if that's what it comes down to, which comes back to your childhood, probably. And if you prove that to him, right, you have all these offices around the world.

You've sell for 5 billion. Will that make you happy probably not but i don't know i i i don't think that selling for five billion and making a load of money will make me happy it it will make me happy to be able to say i can't believe we've done it you know i can't believe what we've achieved but then you'll need the next thing possibly or that might be the the cigar on a beach moment i wrote i wrote this one sentence in my book where i started to understand the moment i described at the start when someone made me an offer for my business and i looked at it when i was 23 and i thought oh my god 25

million quid i was like oh fucking and then what i learned in that moment is my whole life became so confused and i almost fell into like i'd call it chaos and so in my book i write that we live our lives thinking that we're striving for stability, which would be completed goals, the cigar, thinking that stability is stability, and that we're trying to escape chaos. But what I came to learn was, in fact, our stability is chaos. It's the having unanswered goals, and it's the problems, and it's the forward motion. So our forward motion so our chaos is stability and our stability the cigar moment would actually feel like chaos yeah it would feel like some kind of if it wasn't time yeah if it wasn't time and we don't know when it will be time yeah but what you just said

there is very true because like any athlete that moment when they're in the chaos is where they feel most at peace with themselves. You speak to any fighter and you say, where would you rather be? Anywhere in the world. And they say, in the ring. And that's the same for us. So it's not like I want aggravation, but stick me in it, put me in front of problems and tell me I can't do something, that's where I'm in my moment. Am I in my moment where I'm sitting at home, you know, watching TV? No, I'm at my best when I'm doing those 200 interviews, or I've got problems, or a fight's fallen through, and, you know, all of a sudden, the shit's hit the fan. That's when I'm at my best. So, and that's where I do feel calm, in a way. You know, at first, when you have problems,

you know, it might be a panic, but for me, okay, this is what we do. We go to work now. You know, and that's the same for an athlete,

or a fighter. That's when they feel calm, when you might be watching, going, oh, because that's not your calm, that's not your moment. It's their moment.

I'm fine. You know, when AJ fights, he ain't nervous. I'm fucking shitting myself, because I't control it it's not me it's not what i do but that's what he does you know when when a fight's fallen through or it looks like a massive show's about to be cancelled and other people in here might be going oh oh do you think it'll be all right do you think and i'll just lock the door and say right leave me alone and I go that's no problem for me

you know but you only become exceptional at things and used to things when you become familiar with them and when you put yourself in the same position time and time again

we talk about Frank you know we always laugh about him giving his press conferences you know because when I did my first ever press conference which was Audley Harrison

against David Hay I couldn't stop shaking you wouldn't have known it at the time but I put my first ever press conference which was Audley Harrison against David Hay I couldn't stop shaking you wouldn't have known at the time but I put my hands on the table like this and I could feel him you know

I could see him going so I just when I spoke I just put him underneath my legs like this and just leant forward and you would never have known and when I done the next one

a little bit less and the next one and then within five or six I never needed notes I'd just speak you know i've seen it i couldn't believe it and with frank you know he done one recently and i could see him shaking you know i was just taking the piss out of him and i just said just keep doing it keep doing it repetition repetition keep putting yourself in situations steve davis who

is my godfather i said to him once how do you you know when you you talk about sort of sports where millimetres make a difference it's nothing more than a snooker you know I said how do you

do you not get nervous you know you're about you go down to pot the blackboard and just little one little jolt and it's all over and he said

I have no nerve endings he said because I've been put in the position time and time again. In the end, it's just, it's second nature. It's just like riding a bike. And that's what, the same with business. You have to keep putting yourself in a position time and time again,

and you'll keep improving. Listen, thank you for your time today. I probably enjoyed it. I know you're starting to think of all the content. No, it's another counselling session. Yeah. You know, I'm going to leave it now and go away and have to have a deep think and you know i think i think the best the best thing you can talk about mindset and and mentality and for hours and hours and hours just keep it simple

don't over complicate things don't overthink things be happy keeps mine that's difficult when you want something so bad and you're chasing it but if you start to really overanalyze that's when you know things start creeping in just keep it simple and um you know i said sometimes if things get tough or you know we've got problems and i say to my old man he said don't worry he said just wake up an hour earlier tomorrow and go to bed an hour later. And I'm thinking that's so, that's so, and he is the most simple mindset, but it works for him. Because you, and the best thing you can do is be honest with yourself as well. Just try and understand, take a step back and just think about what is happening in the world and your world right now.

And if you can understand it, you can deal with it and you can solve it but just think simple thank you cheers Thanks for watching!