The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - How I Manipulated The World's Richest Men: “They Lost $100 Million In One Night!” - Molly Bloom (Molly's Game)

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

In this new episode Steven sits down with the author, entrepreneur and ‘Poker Princess’ Molly Bloom. Molly is a former Olympic skier, and at 21 years old was ranked No. 3 in North America in moguls. After an accident, she left skiing and took a years sabbatical from the University of Colorado - Boulder to move to LA in 2004. Initially bartending, she began to run poker games in The Viper Room. These games attracted A-list celebrities such as Leonardo DiCaprio, Tobey Maguire, and Ben Affleck, playing for millions of dollars. In 2013, she was arrested for taking part in underground poker games and faced 10 years in prison, but was eventually sentenced to 1 year of probation. In 2014, she released her memoir ‘Molly’s Game’ which was made into an award winning film of the same name in 2017. In this conversation Molly and Steven discuss topics, such as: How her upbringing was based around competition and achievement Why she was obsessed with achieving glory from a young age Moving to LA and finding her way into running poker games How she started running illegal poker games and made them different from others The psychological lessons she learned from watching poker games How she made herself indispensable to the game and its players What it took to run the world's most exclusive poker nights Having her poker game and income taken from her Learning to pivot quickly from failure to success Seeing someone lose $100 million in one night Kicking Dan Bilzerian out of her poker game How she was making $4-6 million a year from tips The mafia showing up at her door What she was able to learn from listening to the elite players of her game How she had access to the world’s most powerful people Becoming addicted to drinking and drugs Her legal troubles with the FBI and facing 10 years in prison Why she refused to snitch to the authorities for millions of dollars The lessons she has learned coming out of the world of poker Being comfortable with risk and the necessity of taking risks in life How she was able to sell her story into a Hollywood movie You can purchase Molly’s memoir, ‘Molly’s Game’, here: https://bit.ly/3OvOLxq Follow Molly: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rOB3yk Twitter: https://bit.ly/45tjBOe Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to Amazon Music, who when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And

thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. He put a gun in my mouth, beat the hell out of me, and he said, if you tell anyone about this, I know where your family lives. For the first time in my life, I knew finally it was game over. I'm Molly Bloom. Dubbed the poker princess. The former waitress who took a small poker game run out of a dingy nightclub. To the biggest underground poker game. In the world.

From Hollywood celebrities to millionaires. They literally made a Hollywood movie about it. The gang turned from legal to illegal. I had become the biggest game runner in New York City. Leo DiCaprio, Ben Affleck, and Tobey Maguire, politicians, was making four to six million dollars a year. It was unbelievable. $250,000 buy-in. So I couldn't sit down unless I brought $250,000 to lose. That's right. And you saw someone lose $100 million in a night. Yes. This is where the science of how you make people feel became a really big tool. And I would memorize people's lives,

the names of their kids, what they cared about, favorite food order, drink order. These things can absolutely be used for good, but I just became obsessed. What had been about trying to be an entrepreneur and be gutsy started to be exclusively about the money and the power. But I paid a huge price for it.

I started to partner with people that were not the right people to partner with. In the middle of the night, I get arrested by 17 FBI agents, machine guns. They put me in handcuffs and they put this piece of paper in front of me that says the United States of America versus Molly Bloom. The FBI gives you an ultimatum. They're going to give you millions if you snitch on the players in the game. I had 48 hours what happens then ollie what do i need to understand about your earliest context to understand you going right in um i think it almost always starts with the family

uh in childhood and i am from a family of you know my two little brothers are incredible humans but like the craziest overachievers you could ever imagine. And then I have these two incredible parents who were very powerful influences in our lives. My dad stood on this platform of you cultivate discipline and if you have a fear, you walk through it and you learn how to suffer constructively for your dreams, for your goals. And then my mom, she was this, she insisted on kindness and integrity. So there was this whole

ecosystem of extraordinary. And I didn't know how I fit into that at all. And I desperately wanted a seat at that table. And probably during the times that we were raised, there are these ideas of what success looked like and how you get there. And it was genius and talent and specific skill set. But I knew that I had to be successful or, and this is not hyperbolic. I literally did not want to live. I mean, I remember when I was applying to law school, I said to my dad, if I don't get into an Ivy league law school, I don't know, like how I don't want to live, you know? And do you mean that? It's hard to know what you mean at 18 years old but in my mind you need clear proof and evidence that you are extraordinary by these accomplishments and my brothers had already

started to make that happen and why law because one day at the dinner table, my dad said to me, do you like to argue and read a lot? Maybe you should go to law school. And then I started to kind of read books about the law and fiction a lot. I mean, I loved stories. And then started to think about getting paid to argue for a living and all the glory that could come from that if you're fighting for justice or you're you know fighting to save somebody who's innocent you know the the sort of high points the aspirational points of what it

would be like to be a lawyer in a movie or a book. You're thinking about the glory? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Why do you think you cared so much about glory? I don't think I cultivated much self-esteem. I don't think I knew who I was. And I don't think that I believed I was inherently worthy. I believed that I had to achieve something big huge extraordinary worldly in order to to then feel relief from that existential ache of that I that that followed me around my whole life you know so you you go off and try and pursue a career in law at

least that's what you think you're going to do yeah you're going to go to harvard right well i wanted to go to harvard i didn't even end up going at all or even finishing my last semester and a half at school because i just couldn't i couldn't muster the the energy and ambition it took to go do all these things. I just had hit a wall. And I think I was really questioning the conventionality of it all. I ended up not applying to law schools and just saying, I just need a year. And the closest place that was warm on the ocean from Colorado in a straight line was California. When you moved here, your father, again, bringing him back into the picture, he's a very ambitious person. How did he receive

this news that you were coming to LA? Not happy about it, not going to financially support it really disappointed so you get here and he's he's no longer supporting you financially at all so what'd you do to make money I mean I got a job I had to get a job the day I got here and I went to this restaurant in Beverly Hills going to you know got a job for a couple days. It was terrible. And then I went to this other restaurant and kind of lied and said, because no one else was hiring in this Beverly Hills area. And it was a fine dining establishment. And I lied and said that I had fine dining experience. I got fired a couple weeks later. My boss said, you're the worst waitress we've ever seen and you've ruined like thousands of dollars of bottles of wine trying to open them. He said, but you know, people seem to take to you and you're a

hard worker. So why don't you come work for our real estate development company as my executive assistant oh so it was the boss of the restaurant that yes offered you the job as the exec yes they they had a bunch of holdings they had some real estate they had some restaurants they had a fund so you became his ea his pa yeah and this led you to poker? Yes. He came in the office one day and he said, and there are always zany things sort of like thrown at me. And he said, I need you to serve drinks at my poker game tomorrow night. And I tell this story because it's just so indicative of the naivete and where I was, I remember Googling what kind of music do poker players like to listen to and what do they eat?

And then I proceeded to make this incredibly embarrassing playlist with songs like The Gambler on it, you know, and got this cheese plate and showed up for this very fancy poker game in Hollywood with A-list celebrities. And, you know, there's some names of people that have already talked about being in the games. And those are the names that I don't mind naming just to give context. It was Ben Affleck and Tobey Maguire and Leo DiCaprio. And then, you know, but apart from the actors, it was also the head of some of the biggest investment banks in the world and the head of some of the biggest movie studios and politicians who were household names and people in the tech world that were about to take their companies public. I mean, it was, it was unbelievable.

Quite a few people have come out, as you say, and said that they played in those games. Yeah. I was watching a video earlier of even Dan Bolzarian, I think, says. Yes, Dan played. He played in those games. Were those games legal or illegal? Legal to play in.

Legal to play in. For sure. Legal. because legal to play in legal to play in for sure legal i when i started running the games i hired uh defense attorneys and had them analyze the federal statutes and to help me figure out a way to do it legally because in the early days i wouldn't have done it illegally that was an evolution so you start as a basically an assistant to the games that your boss is running these are secret games right right very secretive very and take me on the journey of what happens next. Okay. So that first game, you know, I'm just shell-shocked, essentially. And also really mortified about the playlist and the cheese plate from Gelson's, you know. But, man, am I intrigued.

You know, getting to be a 23 years old, getting to be a fly on the wall in this room where these conversations are open and candid and you are, I'm like you, I've always been fascinated in psychology. I've always been an information data junkie. I love to learn. I love to observe. And so this was as compelling as it could be. And then I remember at the end of the night, because people were tipping with chips, it wasn't straight cash. I remember making $3,000 for refilling some drinks. And so two things became really apparent to me. One one this was incredible access to a network of people that I don't know if I would have ever had access to and to learn from people at this age of 23 when I didn't know who I was or who I wanted to be and number two that there was

something that happened when there was a token or a chip was the economic system that made people very liberal. Because I'd worked as a waitress. I was a waitressing everywhere. I'd hustle my butt off for a couple hundred dollars a night. All of a sudden, the chip is involved and it's real money. So I just became obsessed. And so I learned about poker. I wanted to learn the rules of the game, the vernacular. I didn't want to seem like a novice. And then I started to try to figure out how do I stay in this room? And this is where one of the places where effective presence became a really big tool. What's effective presence? Effective presence is the science of how you make people feel. Everybody has their own emotional footprint that they leave on the world. And there are really marked things you can do to have either positive or negative affective presence or neutral, which is also not great.

So I remember talking to my mom and I remember saying, you don't even understand how compelling this is. And I want to stay in this room more than anything, but I don't know how I could ever confer value in this room. Did you feel like you were going to be kicked out of the room? I just felt like maybe I was disposable. Like maybe they would just bring in another woman at some point to serve drinks. Or, you know, I just didn't want to be disposable. I wanted to find some reason to be, to be valuable in that room to, you know, and, and to be able to come back.

And I start, I was talking to my mom so much about everything that I hoped to gain and where my mind was going with this opportunity. And I said to her, but mom, I have no idea how to bring value to this room. These people have everything. And she said something that was really profound to me. She said, maybe instead of thinking about all the things you want to get, you could think about what you could give. And then she reminded me of that quote by Maya Angelou that everyone loves and loves to quote, which is people are going to forget what you said and what

you did, but they're never going to forget the way you made them feel. And I thought about that, and it's so true. And I guess I had this suspicion that these people with their power and their success and their access were different from the rest of us, that they believed that they were worthy, that they didn't harbor that secret fear that they weren't good enough. And what I found unequivocally is that that wasn't true. And that many times someone at that level is even more convinced or needs even more validation. And so I started to try to understand how to make people feel important, seen, heard, remembered, how to establish trust, how to establish authentic connection. Because something that I realized

by observing these games is that everybody wanted something from these people. That was the nature of the relationship. And so if I could figure out how to establish a real connection, you know, there's emotional intelligence, right, which usually has a focus on the outcome, how to win friends and influence people. Effective presence is more about being in the present with someone focused on the connection, not the outcome. And this is truly what I focused on for the first six to seven months is just creating a real connection with people, observing them and, you know, trying to train my mind to focus on what's unique about this person, what's truly unique about this person, and then getting to a point where you're vulnerable enough to say, God, I'm really

fascinated by this thing that you do, you know, whether it's at the poker table or in business or just in life. And focusing in on the details and really getting outside of yourself and becoming curious and becoming a great listener, which, by the way, you are an insanely great listener. Oh, thank you. And I just have found, probably like you have, that there is such incredible value in that. And that no matter how much somebody is celebrated or, you know, has a public following or whatever, it's so seldom that someone just sits down with them and listens, just gets in it with them.

So funny, as you were saying that, I was just thinking about how much of a competitive advantage listening is. We think that the competitive advantage is had in speaking. But if I've learned anything from doing this podcast, it's that to truly understand someone and then be able to, in this context, ask them a question, but in the world of business, to deliver them a solution to their problem, which is getting a sale, to to create the upper hand you simply have to listen yes and you have to listen for as long as you possibly can and this is what the great thing of what i've learned from doing this podcast but even from this conversation is i'm i'm my next question is going to be so much better for the fact that i listened to you right and actively listened actively listened presently listened i think we walk around armored with our egos and i think that

true connection happens when somebody when you're able to disarm somebody and they're able to disarm you and the egos slip away and it's just two people so when you go in and you start listing off your accomplishments and painting yourself as this you know all of a sudden it's like competition up he goes up and and then there's not true connection you can't penetrate no that kind of wall can you no both built two walls between yourselves because you're showing off right you need the walls to come down right from the connection yeah when people hear that they go you know this this idea of effective presence and understanding how to be kind of a different jigsaw shaped piece to each individual to get the best out of them or what you want from them

people will say oh manipulation which you know the the fine line between sales and persuasion and negotiation and manipulation, it's all there, you know. Is this positive manipulation? So, effective presence, EQ, active listening, all of these things that you learn can absolutely be used for good or they can be used for bad. But I think something that is different about at least the brand of effective presence that I value is it's about your experience connecting with a human being. It's not about for me, because I used to do that, right? The way I used to do things is I would do all my research on you and I'd come in here with a few talking points so that I could instantly connect on something with you and show you that you and I are the same. And I don't really do that anymore, although I don't hate that strategy.

But I think it just depends on how you use it. I think when you use it in a manipulative way, I think it's easier to see versus if you kind of take a few breaths before you go into a room and you say, this, what I want to do here is to connect with someone, to have that human to human feeling, and to be of service in some way to a greater way to humanity. And by the way, that can also include yourself. But I think it's about disconnecting from the outcome, disconnecting from the transaction and connecting as a human being. So how'd you get from being the waitress in these rooms, serving drinks to

running your own poker nights? This is a funny story. Okay. So a couple of months go by, right. And I'm like, I don't want to serve drinks in these rooms. I want to, I want to start my own games. I want to own these rooms. You know, this was someone who felt powerless in the world. If I could control these nine seats, you know, this thing that has so much control over these people that are so powerful, that was compelling. The money was compelling. I had this whole idea of how I would design the experience. That was compelling. And also, you know, I'd sort of learned in those six to eight months that I was an entrepreneur.

I was a problem solver. I could think on my feet. I had metacognition. I could feel a certain way inside, terrified, nervous, scared, and still act with composure. These things that wouldn't quite present at a dinner table growing up with Jordan and Jeremy Bloom to culminate into an idea or, you know, sort of like that seat. All of a sudden, I just started to feel in my flow, you know. And so, but I was very loyal to my boss. And he is an interesting character. He was slightly psychopathic. So I, you know, I just bided my

time and I tried to figure out how I was going to do this. And, and then he made it quite simple for me because he called me and he said, you're focused too much on the game. I need you back in the office. I'm giving the game to someone else. Her name is da da da da da. She's going to be calling you. And by this point, I had really kind of gotten into like I had started to think about how I was going to build this game. I had I was keeping the books on everyone. I was recruiting players. You know, I really had I was doing much more than just waitressing. And I thought about it and I was like, I got to take my shot. I can't just go.

I can't just let him take this. Like this is, this opportunity is too important for me. So I had developed friendships and alliances. And so I planned a game and I moved it to a really luxurious location. And I hired a full staff of people and had them memorize everyone's favorite food order, drink order, the names of their kids, what they cared about in life, upgraded my playlist, a little Frank Sinatra maybe. I don't remember what it was, but it was better.

Moved out of this dungy basement, had it catered by, you know, the best restaurants in town, you know, like the best liquors, Cuban cigars. I mean, I wanted people to walk into this room and feel like they were in Monaco or feel like they were James Bond for the night. And I really, as the games were on, I really like got into the science of scent science and temperature and humidity and food and all these things that elicit the feel-good chemicals.

And then I invited everyone except for my boss. And at the end of the night, the game went really late. And then at five in the morning, I got this text message from my boss and he said, get over here. To this day, I don't know why I went. I just went and he made me go wait in this like bedroom and he made me wait for a long time. And a long time. And I said to myself, he's going to kill me. I mean, I don't even know what's going to happen right now. Because he was a terrifying individual and very powerful. And just to give you some context, when I started working for him, I used to always say to him, I'm really worried about your

soul. Like you're not a nice person, you know? And, and I saw him in a business context. And then later when I got to know him better, I saw him with his family and he was very kind, but he used to say to me all the time, you, you're going to, you're going to get trampled over. Like you need to toughen up and so anyway so he walks into the room and he has this terrifying look on his face and he looks at me and he goes i'm proud of you it was like graduation day for better or worse you know it's hard to know how to feel about that moment now sitting here decades later so from from that moment, when you host that first game, you upgrade everything.

You upgrade the experience for your customers. Eventually you set your sights on New York for a variety of different reasons. And you move the games from being based in California and LA to being based in New York City. I lost the LA game. You lost it. Someone took it from you.

Yes. Karma. Yeah, totally. the la game you lost it someone took it from you yes karma yeah totally not gonna argue with that who took it from you uh one of the most famous movie stars in the game leonardo dicaprio no uh someone took the games from you a movie star said i'm gonna go do it at my house. Gave me an option first. Um, you can either start making less money.

So this is very interesting. There is this player in the game. Who you can't name. I won't name. But they're a big male movie star. Making so much money. Okay. How much money are we talking?

Like hundreds of millions? Yeah. Okay. But became, I would say pathologically obsessed with this game and structuring the game so that he could win all the time. So make sure that he was the best player in the game

and that there were no other, there was no one better than he was. Dan Balzerian said that he was kicked out of the game because he was really good oh well listen i dan showed up playing this kind of ruse that he was just this clueless trust fund kid okay and people bought it and i said i sat there watching him and i'm like this dude knows what he's doing. And I said, respect, right? You're hustling, I'm hustling,

but you can't play in this game. You're going to take everyone's money. You're bad for business. I wish you the best. So you kicked Dan Bilzerian out of the game? I had to. He was too good. Yeah. Okay,'t he was telling the truth yeah and yeah for sure so this this hollywood star that took you that stole your game from you so he was really

obsessed with the game and he was obsessed with the money that he was making and being the biggest winner and the truth is at the end of year, the money that I was making by that point was millions. And he believed that was money that should be going into his pocket, even though by this point, I was traveling the world recruiting players, I had a staff of 20 people, I handled all the logistics, I handled credit extension collections, I was on the hook of someone didn't pay, I had a full business. I was paying my taxes. There was so much work and sweat equity and I had branded the game in this incredible way. And I took notes every single game. Here are the areas that works, here doesn't. Let me do some deeper research. And just really turning down cash and cars and free rolls from the pros

to get a seat to protect the integrity of the game and paying the debts from my own bank account to make sure people got paid faster. I mean, I wasn't serving drinks anymore. And so when he said to me, you're making too much money, you have the option of making less and I'll let you keep the game. Look, by this time, I had become a strategic thinker. I had really been able to get out of emotional decision making, but I do believe that there's a time and a place for emotional decision-making. And so I knew that turning down that offer, there was a large,

the odds were I was going to lose the game, but I knew that accepting that offer meant no autonomy for me, no freedom and no dignity. What was the offer, sorry? I would have to cap my salary and make it and and have him approve how much i'm making why what was he bringing to the table where you can just kick him out was he bringing a lot of celebrity power yeah and celebrity power yeah this in this town

so he he was he basically said to you listen you're making a lot of money i'm i'm bringing a lot to the table because i'm bringing celebrities and contacts and legitimacy to this so i'll put a cap on your earnings and i get the rest of what you're making but i'll continue to do my part yes so he kind of wanted to make you his employee right how do you feel about that i never want to be anyone's employee ever again but how do you feel about him because when you said it you looked a bit pissed off to be honest uh did i a little bit you looked a bit pissed off to be honest uh did i a little bit you looked a bit like there was still a little bit of maybe resentment to that moment you know i think that there's just conviction to that moment right of because i think we live uh

in a day and age where a lot of people try to um not in a day and age it's it's reality that a lot of people um try to misuse power and i think it's really important to talk about you know sort of dignity in the face of that and and and turning the offers down so you said no what happens then Called me about a week later and with this almost jubilant laugh and tone was like, you're done. How could he ensure that you were done? He had colluded with the biggest whale in the game, a whale in a gambling context, someone with a lot of money who's not very good, who's willing to lose a lot of money. And this person had endless funds. And he had colluded with him to have the game at his house. And that was where the money was for everyone.

And you asked me a question, how do I feel about this person? Here's my answer. This was a really long time ago um and i've totally forgiven him so you lose the game i lose the game i was devastated what's going through your mind at that moment i'm done i'm never going to be able to make this much money again. I'm never going to be, I'm going to have to go join some, you know, I'm going to have to go work for someone else. I'm not going to be able to be my own boss.

I'm not going to live in this fascinating, adventurous underworld where I get to, you know, pull the strings and move the chess pieces. And I have to go join the real world where I'm not extraordinary you know I'm just telling what's going through my mind now when I say these things it's like it is what it is but so you eventually move to New York. Yes. 30 years old at this point? I'm 31 at that point. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I bet my parents said, this is a great time for you to go back to school. You've saved all this money. You've learned all this, you know, you've gained all this information.

You have this incredible network. And I said to them, you're absolutely right. But I have something that I need to prove to myself, at least, because the plan was never to run poker games for the rest of my life. I don't think that's something that's sustainable. The lifestyle was not conducive for raising a family. Late nights, you know, crazy adrenaline. It was not something that I could imagine myself doing for the rest of my life I knew I needed to walk away at some point I knew I needed to parlay it into something that was less underground less gray but you know I have to tell you there was something very thrilling about it um but then I got angry and I had something to prove and there was just nothing that was going to stop me.

What made you angry? Feeling like I had been disposed of so effortlessly. Something that I, you know, something stolen from me that I had curated and built and, you know, said karma before. And there is some truth to that. But I did everything justly. You know, I left money on the my own money on the table to curate this incredible experience. I ran the games with ultimate integrity. You know, I wasn't unkind to anybody. I just felt it was really unfair. And so, also, I was embarrassed.

You know? So I decided I was going to build the biggest poker game in the world. Like five times, ten times bigger than the game in the world, like five times, 10 times bigger than the game in LA. And then I would go away. I decided after doing some research that I would do it in New York City because it seemed like there are a lot of gamblers on Wall Street. There were many problems with my plan.

First of all, I didn't really know anyone in new york city it's that sort of like billionaire wall street world is not so easy to penetrate secondly it was 2008 so the economy and wall street had just been brought to its knees in the most profound ways. It's probably the Depression. And thirdly, there were some pretty scary characters running games in New York who'd been doing it for 20 years. But, you know, it's testament to when you're obsessed with something, when the end, like you'll do anything, unfettered ambition, you'll do anything to get there. Things are possible for better or worse. So I made moves.

I did research and I interviewed poker players. And I found out who the right people were to talk to. And I found out what was wrong with the current system, what was wrong with the current games and where I could improve on that. I already knew I could bring the branding and the experience, which was meaningful. It truly was meaningful. But what I found is in these big games, in these New York games, a lot of the game runners were kind of running a Ponzi scheme. If they didn't get paid, they wouldn't pay out. They're playing in their own games. Whether they were winning or losing would dictate the rake of that night. And the rake is the illegal tax that most of the game runners were taking. And so it was a matter of treating people fairly. It was a matter of being trustworthy and consistent and having integrity. And then I, and, you know, the biggest thing I

could do to instill that trust and to have integrity and to eradicate the fear was to become the bank. I would now, MDB Inc. would now become the bank. Guarantee the games. Pay if there is, if somebody's stiffed, I would pay. What does stiff mean? Meaning they lost money in the game and then didn't pay the debt. Okay.

I don't understand that. Surely to get the chips, they have to pay for them up front. No, when you run a weekly game, ultimately you establish a credit relationship with someone. Okay, right. Because otherwise, like, these people would have to bring $5 million in cash every week. It's just not reasonable. It's not feasible. So tell me about the peak of your New York games then.

So when you're at the peak, what does that look like? So I started this big game. Called? They're all just called Molly's game okay yeah um so it was a $250,000 buy-in and then this was the game that someone would ultimately end up losing a hundred million dollars in one night in say that again someone explain explain all this to me like i'm a chimpanzee from that documentary you're talking about before we start recording so when you sit down to play at a poker game there are a couple numbers that matter what's the buy-in my la game the buy-in to sit down and get chips and get a chair was fifty thousand dollars it started out as 10 i raised it. I raised it to $50,000. The New York game was $250,000. So I couldn't sit down unless I brought $250,000 to lose.

That's right. Then the other relevant numbers are what are the blinds? Meaning what do you have to bet each round to play the game. At the start of the round. Yeah, and there's a small blind and a big blind and it just goes around the table. And so these games played so big, there was so much action, the blinds were so high

that that initial buy-in would be gone with some people in the first 20 minutes. So then they'd have to come to me and say, I need another $250. And I would have to decide in that moment, can pay this are they good for the money um and so i would have to start to establish this relationship this financial relationship with people based on trust a lot of times but there are a couple things that that kept me safe. Number one, to stiff this game was social reputational suicide. People would start to say,

oh, they don't have money anymore. Number two, there wasn't a game like it where you could play with some of your biggest heroes. I mean, there was so much business that got done at these games. The things that I saw created, you know, it was mind blowing.

But also... And you couldn't just go to the police if they stiffed you, right? No, there's-blowing but also and you can just go to the police if they stiffed you right no there's there's no recourse unless you're willing to go to um muscle mafia yeah organized crime why couldn't you go a or a game it's illegal to stiff you need a gambling license in order to have those types of privileges so you can go to jail in vegas for stiffing your gambling debt but you can't go to jail for stiffing me okay i gave you the money it's a loan so you're saying you saw someone lose 100 million dollars in a night yes how did that happen

the game was playing huge they were also playing backgammon they're also betting sports obviously i didn't i can't guarantee 100 million. So I'm out after a certain point. And that was shortly before I got in trouble. But that game that I established, the big game in LA and the big game in New York sort of joined together and became a billionaire's game. And people over a year's time would lose a billion dollars. People were, I mean, there's rumors that a couple of billionaires went broke playing in that game, fully broke. And this, here comes to a part of this story that is, I think, really important. I started to see something I could not unsee anymore, which was in the beginning,

I just believed rich people could never lose their money, knew what they were doing, and that this was just their form of entertainment. And what I started to see is that a vast majority of the players in these games, particularly the big games, were gambling addicts, totally owned by the addiction of gambling. And I, at some point, had to decide whether I was okay with playing my part in that. And my answer by my actions was clearly yes, but I paid a huge price for it inside. And that sort of started to enable me to make other decisions that were not in line with my integrity.

And that had a directly inverse proportional effect on how much I liked myself, how much I, my self-esteem, how much I believed in myself, the kind of person I started to be. And what had been up until this point about trying to be an entrepreneur and be gutsy and make money and, you know, sort of like source power, but do it in a way where I'm retaining who I am and integrity started to be exclusively about the money and the power and the status. And I started other games in the city and I didn't care if somebody could afford it or not. And I was drinking a lot and I was taking a lot of, and, you know, just started to live this life of very little self-analysis. You compromised your integrity. I did.

Big time. How? I'm not, I don't have judgments whether or not, like, you know, sports betting just became legal. Sports betting, so many people in my indictment got indicted for sports betting. Now it's legal. Now if you live in New York, New Jersey, you can download an app, connect it to your bank account, watch a tennis game. Pretty much everything that happens in that game is a bettable moment. You can also do that with a Charles Schwab account I harbor no judgment for

drafting whoever the companies are the CEOs are it matters who you are right for me once I realized that what I was doing was using all my resources, all my skills, all my intelligence to push an activity that was ruining a lot of people's lives, that was an insult to my integrity. That was getting out of alignment with who I am and what I care about in the world. What were you good at? So at that peak moment, when you do a skills audit of why you were successful, what appears on that skills audit? Very good at strategy. Seeing a problem, coming up with a solution, setting a goal that has, you know, most of the time, pretty slight odds, figuring out how to get there. So I'd become very good at strategy.

I'd become really good with people. I became so good at it that I became manipulative. And I was using those skills to manipulate people for my personal gain period. It's not a win-win. And all of these things, the lifestyle that you'd chosen to live and the way you'd chosen to live it, you speak of the internal conflict this creates, right? Were you depressed at that point in your life? How was, if I was a fly on the wall when you were going home what would i have seen what would i you know if i was a fly on the wall that could feel what you're feeling what would i have felt and what would i have seen i was very depressed very disappointed with myself and completely powerless over these forces.

Money, by this point, drugs. And when I say drugs, like I wasn't, I didn't like the inconsistency and the unreliability of street drugs. I liked the consistency andability of street drugs i liked the the consistency and formulation of of um pharmaceuticals they allowed me to be productive and not feel myself not feel the world um i was drinking a lot why didn't you want to feel the world what were you escaping from myself what i was doing the the way that I was living.

What was it you were so ashamed of about the way that you were living outside of the games? I had stopped really communicating, showing up for my family. I, at times, didn't treat people that worked for me as well as I'd like to. I started to have, you know, New York was a trip. I had all these beautiful, interesting, compelling women that worked for me. And although I always wanted them, I always wanted to mentor them and provide them with opportunity. The truth is, is that I made sure they made enough money so they stayed in that darkness with me. And I didn't hold myself to the same accountability that I would hold myself now to in a friendship.

I pay them so much money. I don't have to show up for their birthday, right? It was a, I had, even if I didn't act like it in my mind, there was a hierarchy. So I had no authentic relationships or very few. Those were the reasons. Were you in a relationship at this point? So I was in a relationship for most of the LA game. And that ended right around the same time that my game ended. And then I went to New York and had sort of a secret relationship. One of the big players, little brother, who kind of did my role in the beginning of handing out chips and everything, I found to be this deeply fascinating, brilliant, heart-centered person.

And so we were in this secret relationship, but I didn't want anyone to know because he was, he didn't measure up to the persona that I was trying to sell, which was very hurtful to him. How did he know? I told him we can't tell anyone. Did you tell him why you can't tell anybody said it's bad for business is that what hurt him you're just saying it was bad for business

because if you said that to me and we're in a relationship i think okay you okay you don't want to complicate the dynamics you don't want some people to know that someone you're you're involved with romantically is also kind of attached to the game so yeah i mean i think in the beginning it made sense right but down the road i think it became very clear and we had conversations about it some point the the mafia show up yeah so here's the kind of uh levels and stages of the train wreck. So the first thing that happened was I had just recruited these guys.

They were Russian-American businessmen. They had the air of being Ivy League. Seemed so legitimate. I had people vetted within an inch of their life. I used to hire the same people that vet politicians, for instance, to vet people. I had bank employees on my payroll

to find out people's liquidity. I mean, it was a whole process. You know, it's a lot of money and big risk to bring a stranger into a room with important people. And their stories checked out, but there was something in my gut that told me it was off. And it turns out that they were running the biggest insurance fraud scheme in New York City history. And they had alleged ties to the Russian mob. So then the

Fed starts to pay attention to this $100 million poker game where people can show up with millions of dollars in cash and get a check, right? Pretty rife for corruption um and interesting for them the next thing that happened was i had a yeah i had a run-in with italian organized crime and i i guess naively i thought that i knew that gambling was always one of the ways that organized crime earns but you know i was having the games at the Plaza Hotel with billionaires and players for the New York Yankees. And I just believed that there was enough separation. But by this time, I had become the biggest game runner in New York City. And they didn't care. They didn't care who my clients were. And they were really clear with me. You know,

if you want to continue to run these games, you're going to have to give us a piece. And we all know, we've all seen that movie, right? And I tried to politely decline their offer and tried to explain to them in business terms why that wouldn't work for me. And just went on my merry way and started to avoid their calls and they didn't just go away and they sent this terrifying guy to my apartment and he put a gun in my mouth which is something that you just never forget. And he beat the hell out of me and, um, took everything that was in my safe, including photographs, the, you know, a couple of things I had from my grandmother. And, you know, he said, I think your answer will be different next time.

And if you tell anyone about this, I know where your family lives in Colorado. And so a couple things here. First of all, if somebody comes into your apartment in the real world, in real life, and puts a gun in your mouth and steals things from you and beats you up, cracks your ribs, you have somewhere to go. You call the police, you call your family, call your friends. It was undeniable now that what I was doing was

so deeply dangerous and underground. And I was completely alone in it. I was too afraid to tell anyone. And so I'm trying to like, and also now I'm not just putting my own life in danger, right? Like I'm in way over my head. And my family's in danger now. And I'm just, I mean, it is so heavy and so much. And for the first time in my life, I don't have any strategy. I don't, I have no idea what I'm going to do. And then I got so lucky. Uh, you know, my only contact with outside world was food delivery. Um, and, and then, and the New York

times. And a couple of days later I got the New York times and it said 125 arrested and the New York Times. And a couple days later, I got the New York Times and it said 125 arrested in the biggest mob-related takedown in New York City history. And I never heard from them again. But, you know, disaster is a coming. It's just... And the last thing that happened before

the whole thing blows up was, you know, for most of my poker running career, I was running these games legally according to this playbook that had been written for me by my attorneys. And one of the biggest ones that differentiated me from a lot of the games in the city and LA was that I didn't take a rake. I didn't take a percentage of the games in the city and LA was that I didn't take a rake. I didn't take a percentage of each pot at the end of the game. You winners tip, you know,

I'm extending people millions of dollars. I'm in charge of the nine seats that people are. A lot of them are pathologically addicted to. At the end of the night, I got paid a lot of money. I was making four to six million dollars a year. And... Just from tips?

Yeah. So where did that four to six million dollars a year come from? The winners. So the winners would play in the game and if they won, you know, they would tip a percentage.

One to five percent of their wins. Games were huge. And I was running multiple games around the city, paying my taxes. I have an event planning company, but you know, I was a mess. And I started to get reckless about who I was letting in the games and who I was letting play. And my debt sheet started to get bigger, and I started to take a rake. I started to partner with some people that, you know, were not necessarily the right people to partner with. And, um, and the, the feds had thrown a confidential informant in the games by that point. And he tracked that. And so around the end of that year,

I got a text message from one of my employees at one of my games and they said, the FBI is here looking for you. Don't come here. And so, um, you know, know I I knew finally it was game over it was game over and you realized that when you got that call saying the FBI here looking for you yeah how do you feel at that moment when you hear someone calls me and says the FBI are looking for me. Terrified. I want my mom and I want my dad. And I want to go back in time. I don't want to do any of this. Don't even know how to process this.

And then a couple hours later it got even worse. I got, you know, I went back to my apartment and the whole time, I mean, it's like you're in a movie. You're looking around every corner. Are they going to be there to apprehend me? And I packed a bag and grabbed my dog and, you know, tried to book a plane ticket to Denver from JFK. And my credit card got declined, which was strange. And then my debit card got declined, which was strange. And then my debit card got declined, which was really strange. And I logged into my accounts and the account balance read negative $9,999,099 in all of my accounts.

Why? Because the feds had seized every single penny. And then some. So what happens then? Did you manage to get out of New York? I did. I managed to get out of New York. I got home to Colorado. I'm at my mom's house. My attorneys are talking to the feds and they said, in in this country you as a person have the presumption of innocence but your property does not so someone can't just come get you unless it was under some of those like after 9-11 or whatever but you know let's just keep it simple someone can't can't just get you throw you into jail say that you're guilty. You have the right to a trial. With your money, with your property, it's different.

There's a division of the government called asset forfeiture that can just take it. And then you have to go into legal proceedings to try to get it back. And so basically what that would involve is me going on record, talking about this game and telling how I made this money, which for the most part, I'd not interested in her as, you know, we're not pursuing anything criminally against her, and if we are, we'll let her know. So I just went home. What do your parents think of you when you come home at this point? I don't even know what they think of me.

I think they're extremely worried. I think that my dad had been writing me handwritten letters every year telling me that what I was doing was going to end badly, pleading with me to do something different. So I think my dad was angry. My mom's just scared. And I think they're also relieved, right? Like they were, you know, they knew that what I was doing was dangerous. They knew it was, I was up late at night running around with large sums of cash. I mean, they had many sleepless nights.

At some point, the FBI gives you an ultimatum regarding becoming a snitch oh okay so it took two years for those two years i moved in with my mom i got sober i at 35 years old no i'm not 35 yet i'm 33 33. Got sober. Trekked to Machu Picchu. Did some deep soul searching. Finally got a job. Moved back to Los Angeles.

Seven days later. This is two years later, okay? I don't think anything's coming. I have rehabilitated myself, you know? And I've been living with my mom and my grandma in the mountains of Colorado. So I moved back to LA seven days later in the middle of the night, I get arrested by 17 FBI agents, machine guns, high beam flashlights. They put me in handcuffs and they put this piece of paper in front of me that says the United States of America versus Molly Bloom. I'm thrown into this wild indictment.

I'm looking at real time in prison. How much? The press release said 90 years. I think realistically it was more like 10. But I have a day and a half to get to New York City to find an attorney that's going to represent me in the fight of my life, and I don't have a dollar. My dad and I aren't speaking.

Why? Because he got mad at me, and I got mad at him. Because the age-old, unexplored resentments and rife, you know, came to a head. This is my biggest fear, right? Failing this spectacularly in front of the world, the tabloids are covering it. So I had a day and a half to get to New York City to find an attorney. And, you know, I don't have a dollar. My mom just put her house up to bail me out of jail.

My dad and I aren't speaking. So my best friend, you know, loaned me a little money, but I'm sitting down with people who are quoting $3 to $6 million and $250 to even look at it and so I have like eight meetings that day before the indictment or before the arraignment and seven out of the eight all said you know Maya I really wish you the best but without a retainer I can't represent you and then I met Jim Walden who was at a very prestigious law firm and kind of like listened to my story,

looked at my mom and said, I'm going to help you. And Jim and I started working together and I'll never forget something he said to me. You know, I went in and I said, look, I don't have the money to fight this. So, but I can't do 10 years, you know, and I have to have a life after this. So what is our strategy and what is our angle? And he said, you know what? Integrity is going to be our strategy and our angle. I'm just sitting across from Jim Walden, who is nothing but integrity,

who is this attorney who has spent his life fighting the good fight, who continues to fight the good fight, who spent the first part of his career in the Eastern District of New York, fearlessly going after the five crime families, who's looking at my indictment and saying, this is bullshit, right? And taking on this case and fighting for me because no one else would. And he's talking about integrity. And I just had this moment of like, it all hit me, you know, who I wanted to be, how far I had come from that and for what. And I made a decision in that room that day that I could never ever abandon myself again in that way. I could never abandon the things that I knew

to be true to who I am. And one of those is integrity and doing what I believe to be the right thing. And a couple of weeks later, the prosecutors wanted a meeting and they really wanted me to be a confidential informant snitched yeah and you know jim believes this is the whole reason that they brought the indictment so that you would snitch on the players in the game and yeah and they didn't care about the mobsters or the people running the insurance fraud scheme i think they

already had what they needed on those they They cared about inside information that I could potentially provide them with on the billionaires, the bankers, the celebrities, the politicians. And I, you know, you spend enough time with people, you do get that inside information. Now, I want to be really clear about something something if there was someone in my game that was doing really bad like if epstein was in my game and i knew that he was trafficking children or whatever like i would have given that information freely and before this but what i knew was epstein in your games no i thought you were no no i'm saying if there was a character like him fine right i would have never protected someone like him but the things that they were interested

in to me who's booking sports it's about to become legal in two years in new york and new jersey you're going to drag somebody's family through the mud and i'm going to be you know your your your accomplice with that did they offer to restore your bank accounts if you they offered to give me all my money back which was how much money millions so they were going to give you millions if you snitched yeah and also they were going to give me a deferred prosecution which would have kept you know sort of giving me a guarantee that I would stay out of jail. And I went home and I, you know, I had a very short amount of time to make this choice, something like 48 hours. And here's where I got to with it. This place that I was in was 100% my fault. I did all of this. I had near perfect information about the law. I had great parents. I had college

education almost completed. I had all the opportunities in the world. And I had chosen this and I had chosen this path. And I had to own that, you know, and turning around and ruining the lives of people who had played in my game, who'd made me very wealthy. Many of them, I saw their kids grow up. To get out of the trouble of my own choices did not feel in alignment with my true self. So you ultimately get sentenced?

I get sentenced. I get a judge that's very disappointed with me. But ultimately, a pretty reasonable guy who said, listen, you're running poker games and it seems like you've done a lot to change your life. I'm not going to sentence you to prison. Which, it's hard to adequately express to you how big that moment is. Because you can do all, you know, I used to say to Jim all the time, whatever, I'll go to federal prison, I'll learn a new language, I'll mentor some women. And he's like, that's not what it's like in the prison system. You know,

people are dangerous and a lot of the guards are dangerous and women get raped. It's not a country club. And in my mind, I was just like, I can handle it, I can handle it, I can handle it. But in that moment when you get sentenced to not go to prison and you're not going to lose your freedom, you don't realize how big it is until that happens. And probably would have been even bigger if it went the other way. But I mean, I felt like, I mean, I lost my feet, you know? And oh man, you know, here we are going to dinner after the sentencing and there's my best friend, Allie, who stuck with me through everything and

my family and even my old boss came and I'm looking around the table and everyone's living their lives, having kids. My brother's a heart surgeon. He's in residency. He just graduated Harvard. My other brother just got inducted into the Colorado Sports Hall of Fame and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, here I am, a family felon. Now I'm 35 years old, millions of dollars in debt, a convicted felon, a social pariah to some degree. I'm all in for a comeback, but how does that even happen where do you go from here so I just remember going back and walking the mountains you know going back moving in with my mom walking the mountains walking meditating trying to figure out what is the way out here you know one of the things I always I always talk to my friends about is as you become more and more successful you get to see behind other curtains i call it you know it's like a totally yeah like

it's a cut you didn't even know was there and you meet this other group of people and you find out that they're making money in this other set of ways you go what the fuck like you guys have been back here doing this stuff all the time so i i can so that so resonates yeah all these money games that i didn't even know existed like you do this and you trade this and you do this and you flip this. And you go, what the fuck? I was like, I was earning like minimum wage over here.

Right. And you billionaires around here, just like doing billion dollar things with these little games that I didn't know existed. And that's what I've come to learn in my life is like, I got to see behind a lot of curtains and I was like, Oh fuck, I can do,

I can earn this much money without doing any work or you can do like this and what are those things that you came to learn about when you got to see behind the curtain a couple things first of all I thought behind that curtain I was going to find the most contented generous non-petty like extraordinary people and that's not what i saw for the most part there are exceptions um i just saw people who were kind of like unwilling to fail because i don't know because they're obsessed with money uh i mean you know it was just drive a lot of a lot of times or being dragged right was it more being dragged than drive

or was it more drive than dragged i.e. could they stop if they wanted you know could they were they in control of their obsessions dragged in that in those settings that's what I tend to find i met a lot of billionaires

and i with the odd exception i'm like damn unhappy yeah i can't stop yeah have you ever read that book the psychology of money yeah yeah don't you love that story in there i love it um i don't know what story in particular you're talking about remember when uh joseph heller is at the house of the of the uh billionaire and someone walks up and says heller like this guy just made in one day what your gross sales were for catch 22 or whatever and heller just goes yeah but i have something he'll never have he goes what could that possibly be enough? Boom. That's peace.

Most of these people that I knew do not have peace and peace should not be underrated. Peace, contentment, the ability to find joy in small moments. And then have the big moments. I am all for adrenaline. I still chase it. I have to chase it less not that I'm a mom but I chase it in healthier ways you know heli skiing whatever it is climbing mountains

but to sit lay your head down at the end of the day and be able to say I know who I am and there may to say, I know who I am. And there may be times where I lose sight of that, but I have a process for that. And, you know, I've made these living amends to these people I love so much. What else did you see behind that curtain?

So you saw a lot of dissatisfaction with life um i saw a much bigger world than i knew existed and a much more malleable world that's super key that's that yeah yeah i thought like the walls were a lot more solid in life generally yeah but you realize success is something that we can all bend control manipulate i think all is a pretty powerful word i think if we are willing to do the work that it entails um on ourselves uh yes i think success money abundance is is is much more available than than i originally thought is that because you see very ordinary people achieving very extraordinary results and you and then once you see how they're doing it you go ah okay yes precisely that's also what i feel yeah that's

cool i've i haven't thought about that and that's really cool i like that and this next the way that my story ends really kind of speaks to that um or not ends but you know that begins again um so i'm walking around the mountains i'm thinking to myself like what's the way out and i just realized there's a unique story here we've seen this version of a story it just usually has a male star right the wolf of wall street right right right right and um so i'm like i'll write this book and it'll sell so well and my life will change you know and i went to new york publishing and there was a lot of publishers that wanted to give me a lot of money for a celebrity takedown book and i wasn't willing to do that so i got rejected a lot but i just kept you know i was

just persistent and i got this book deal i i, I got my own press and everything. And I waited to, for this, you know, I released the book and I, I waited for my life to change. And I think like a hundred people read the book or something, maybe, maybe a little more than a hundred, but not enough to even earn back my advance, which wasn't that big. And then I said to myself, I still believe in this story. I still believe that the story is the way out. I just believe it. I can see it. I'm going to have to bring in the big guns. And I said to myself, I need to go speak to one of the most powerful filmmakers in Hollywood. I had a bunch of meetings and I was like, it can't be something small. It has to be something big. And so I made this short list of

people who really are successful, who are the A-list here. And it was like Shonda Rhimes, Steven Spielberg, Aaron Sorkin. And there was another component that this person had to have, another feature to their personality. They had to be fearless because there were so many people, as you can imagine, in the political world, in Hollywood, in, you know, the billionaires making calls saying, like, don't make this Molly Bloom movie because they don't want to take the risk at all. Even though I'm, you know, I went to bat for them. They don't want to take the risk at all that they could be portrayed in this movie. Anyway. So I, you know, I loved the West wing and I loved social network and I love the characters that, and, and the sort of like message and humanity that comes out from his writing. So I was like, I need a meeting with him.

With who? Aaron Sorkin. And he happens to also be the highest paid screenwriter in Hollywood. So he's a good bet, right? That number doesn't come from thin air. So most people laughed me out of their office. They're like, your book sold 10 copies. You know, like this, it was in the press a couple of years ago.

Aaron Sorkin's never going to look at this. And I just kept with it. I was just persistent because I had seen, you know. As you'd seen. I'd seen how people get successful which was persistence of course you have to have a good product of course you had to have a good story i believed in the story but i got rejected so many times you know so finally i get this meeting with aaron and i remember trying to mentally prepare for it. I'm living with my mom, you know, I'm by all

societal measures, the classic loser. Like I'm like living in my mom's basement. I have no money. I don't have all any of the trappings of the world and the success world, you know, but I said to myself, you walk in there with humility of lessons learned, but you walk in there like you're worthwhile, you know? Isn't there some famous quote that he said about how you were the most confident down and out person he'd ever met? Oh yeah.

So when I was like, when I was done telling him my story, he said, we'll tell you one thing I've never met someone so down on their luck and so full of themselves so down on their luck and so full of themselves I certainly was not full of myself but that's what you were giving and yeah I mean the TLDR of that is he takes it on. He drops what he's doing. He takes it on.

He decides to make it his directorial debut as well as writing it. The movie comes out. It's nominated for every award, BAFTAs, Oscars, Golden Globes. Also, I had done a lot of really good negotiating on my part, on the money part. They wanted to give me nothing up front and promise me back end. And I had done enough research to know that that wasn't ever going to happen. The back end in Hollywood is notoriously. When you say you did well, what do you mean?

Give me something. How can I gauge that? So I can just tell you that I got 15 times what someone normally would have gotten in my position. And your position was? A book that didn't really sell. You're the owner of the IP, I guess. Yeah. Life rights. A life rights deal. Like if that book had become a bestseller and it already had a built-in audience and i had a million followers on instagram and you know there was this compelling package sure

so how well did that movie do it did extremely well i mean 50 million people saw do you have an idea of numbers of like value do they do they give you a value because i know they say opening box office was x like lifetime value yeah um they don't because you have a back end they they give you a sort of convoluted back end number but every everyone made money on the movie and it got nominated for awards and um you know i'll never forget getting the the bank wire again and it takes a really long time you know you don't just get paid up front you get like 50 grand and then you get the rest of it three years later four years later whenever the movie gets made and it was a rocky road to make the movie because it was

all set up at sony everything was going smoothly it had this big budget like big movie studio budget. And then Kim Jong-un got pissed about the interview. Remember the Seth Rogen movie? Oh, yeah, yeah. And he hacked Sony Studios. And the chairwoman was Amy Pascal. And she was the one that really believed in the movie. And she had to step down. And then the new chairperson wasn't that passionate.

And so then we had to set it up kind of like at festivals. So, you know nothing's ever a smooth ride so you get a big check from this movie i do um but i'm still i still owe millions not not today sitting here but at that point so I had to figure out like what is what's the next move and um I remember the first time I didn't even think about speaking you know like a speaking career or anything um I just remember the first time I got hired to speak it was in front of thousands of people for Google and I had never spoken publicly. And I think I just got on that stage and just blacked out.

It was so awful and I was so bad at it. But the money was compelling. The adventure was compelling. And so, you know, it allows me now to make a really great income and then also work on the other things I'm working on, which is a podcast in the community called The Smart Girl's Guide to Everything. It's basically using the strategy, the access, the network, the resources that I've been able to accumulate in my life and applying it to real life.

And then I'm writing a book on effective presence and um i have a one and a half year old at home which wasn't a straight ride right no you i read that you had ivf nine times nine times people don't understand the pain of having ivf even once and then it not going to plan yeah to have it nine times yeah it's it's the it's the mental anguish you know it was interesting for me because and i think this is important to talk about and i'm glad you brought this up so i froze my eggs at 36 um and i was told you're gonna be good you have a lot of eggs you're young you know whatever and i because and my point is here is i i think it's a big money-making

industry and I think they oversell the technology. And it's not to say don't do it, but to do your own research. In my case, what I realized is doing three rounds of an egg freezing procedure would have probably given me a much better shot. The technology is getting better, but eggs are 80% water. So freezing and thawing is kind of tricky. Anyway, so I thought I had purchased this insurance policy on my fertility. And then when I met Fiona's dad, I was 41 and I said, okay, great, let's thaw out these magical eggs. And none of them worked. And I was 41 and my fertility metrics, basically the doctor said, I'll give you a 4% chance of making this happen. And nine rounds later,

it worked. And I'm so happy I didn't miss it. But that was a special moment. Also terrifying. Terrifying moment. The most vulnerable you'll ever be in your entire life. Up until the point that Fiona was born, I thought to myself, I believed,

I went through life believing, particularly after everything that I had just been through, there's nothing I can't handle. And then you have a baby and you realize losing this little life is something that I don't think I can handle. And of course, there are people that do and they do it with grace, but you just know in that moment that there is something that has changed in you that will never be the same terrifying fiona comes to you when she's 18 years old she says mom

i would like to be a success what advice have you got for me mom what do you say to fiona well we're going to be having this conversation well before she's 18. I want to help her cultivate her passions, her talents. I want to teach her about her mind and the ways that I've had to learn how to manage that mind, how to manage fear, how to manage the internal critic. I want to teach her to sit with hard emotions, not to run from them, to figure out what they can teach us. I want to teach her to go into the shadows, the parts of ourselves that we don't want to look at and look at it. Don't wait until you get beat up by the mob, federally indicted, addicted to drugs and alcohol to finally go into those shadows to look at the demons that you haven't dealt with. All these things that I learned through the trials and tribulations of my life,

I want to teach her at a young age. I want to teach her that her worth is not dictated by the things that she produced, but she is inherently worthy. At the same time, she will not be happy unless she has purpose in life. I believe that to be true. I don't know who said it, but it was very succinctly said to love and to work you know i believe that people need a reason to get up in the morning to go into the world and feel purpose i i don't care if that purpose is stay-at-home mom or president of the united states will you teach her anything that you learn specifically from being in those rooms with the billionaires athletes politicians absolutely i'll teach her about risk what will you teach her about risk you know i've seen thousands of hands of winning and losing poker and i've kept spreadsheets excel spreadsheets on people for years and i've then watched

the choices they make and how they get to the numbers that I look at the end of the year. As in their business choices? The choices they're making in the game and then in their greater life. A lot of times when people lose, they become unwilling to take another big risk. And if you aren't willing to take risks in life, over time, you will lose the game. The people that took calculated risks over time won. People that took impulsive risks

didn't. But people that took calculated risks over time and didn't let a past failure or an external condition stand in that way won the game. I think a healthy relationship with risk is super important. I think being able to stay composed when there's chaos inside. Chaos outside is incredibly important in those rooms. I think being able to know when to use your emotional mind to make choices and know when to use your rational mind and being able to toggle between the two in an intentional and smart way is super important. And I think ego and greed is the reason that I've seen so many lives come undone, including my own. The person that sits before me today,

you know, been on a journey to say the least lived many many lives in many different chapters um what are you most proud of about yourself now when you reflect on the person you are versus the person you were what what are some of the things you're most proud of about yourself i'm i'm proud that when i that that I stay self-aware and when I believe that I'm wrong or believe that I'm behaving in a way that is is not aligned with who and what I want to be in the world that I'm willing to either say sorry or do that work really deeply relentlessly do that work really deeply, relentlessly do that work to change. I'm willing that, I mean, I'm proud that I just continued to, I'm proud that I stayed open. Is there anything you're not proud of? From my past or in the present? In the present. Yeah. I mean, there are little things that I'm working on, but I wouldn't say that I'm not proud of them because I think having grace for yourself and learning how to forgive yourself and treat yourself with compassion is something that I had to learn as a survival skill back in those dark days, but something that i continue to practice uh the only times that

i'm not proud of myself are if i'm staring straight into something that i know that i'm totally ignoring that's causing harm in the world to myself to other people molly we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to leave the question for and the question left for you is what is the message you needed to hear when you were younger that you didn't hear and who was the best person to say it that didn't say it um okay that's a great question and a hard question and i think i think the answer is stop searching for the evidence that you're worthwhile, that you're good enough, and just start to believe it. And I think the person to say it to me is me. I think I was my

own worst critic. We all have certain challenges in our life, but I think at some point, taking responsibility for your own shit is the most important thing a human being can do are you there now like are you at the point now where you know your self-worth is isn't going to come from glory not a hundred percent but i'm like 90 do you think do you think we ever overcome these desires to to seek you know these things because they feel to be so hardwired in us especially if they come at a formative age from people that are important to us like our parents or the context we're raised in it's almost like a an oven it's like if you think about anything that you bake yeah you can't unbake the thing like you can't you can't unbake a cake you know there's lots of things you can't unbake the thing. Like you can't unbake a cake.

There's lots of things you can like, you know, separate using various chemical processes. Yeah. I think maybe if you're willing to go live a monastic life and just meditate all day and like not live in the real world, even then, I know that for me, anytime I think I have something completely figured out, something fixed, something else will happen in life and it'll crop up. So that's why I think I have something completely figured out, something fixed, something

else will happen in life and it'll crop up. So that's why I think it's so important to have a process for how you deal with these things. And I think anybody that says, I did this work on myself and now I'm fine, isn't being fully truthful. I agree. I completely agree. And I think that's the most honest answer to give.

And I also think it's the true answer. It's the answer that all the psychologists and psychologists and psychiatrists that I sit here with tell me as well it's the answer I've seen in my life that it's more about management than it is about taking our traumas or our hardwiring to zero which and I think that's important to say because people that are struggling with the same recurring patterns in their life hear that and go thank god it's not just me yeah you know because they'll beat themselves up when the therapy doesn't work or the podcast they listen to doesn't change them right or like when staring at the sun and sitting in an ice cube bath doesn't fix their like they're still toxic after the rest you know and they're like they want a refund molly thank you so much

thank you so much thank you for your wisdom your honesty um you don't have to be so honest and in particular the amount of life lessons you've been able to draw from this experience, I think is of tremendous value. So it's no surprise you're a speaker. I'd bet extensively on your podcast being a huge success as well. And I'm really excited about this book

because I really do think that effective presence is clearly one of your absolute, you know, dominant skills. Just from meeting you today as well, when the minute you said that explain it sounds like oh yeah i get it so and that's an unbelievably powerful skill because all we face in this world is other people yeah and so knowing how to get the best from those people and whatever context that might be is ultimately the superpower that anyone could possess Thank you.