The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Ivan Toney: I’m Finally Ready To Speak! The Truth About His Football Ban And His Future Team!

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

He has previously said that he would “speak soon with no filter”, for Ivan Toney that time is now. In this new episode Steven sits down with footballer Ivan Toney. Ivan started his football career in 2012 playing for Northampton Town at 16 years old, and 3 years later moved into the Premier League with Newcastle United. After 4 appearances with Newcastle United, he spent the next few years on loan to various clubs. However, in 2018 Ivan began to build his reputation as a top striker when he joined Peterborough United, scoring 49 goals in 94 appearances. In 2020, Ivan signed with Brentford, helping them win promotion to the Premier League in his first season. In November 2022, the FA charged Ivan with 232 counts of breaching betting rules between 2017 and 2021, he was fined £50,000 and banned from playing professional football until 17 January 2024. In this conversation Ivan and Steven discuss topics, such as: Finding football at a young age The brutal playing style of the lower leagues His father’s belief that he would be a top footballer The advice Ivan would give to his younger self When he began gambling The impact that rejection by teams had on him His journey in football being a constant climb How moving to the Premier League changed his mindset Mixing with the wrong crowd when in the Premier League Not feeling as if he was given the chance to prove himself early in his career Taking chances and becoming a top goal scorer Becoming a father at a young age and its impact on him Advice that he would give to his children if they wanted to become footballers Why Brentford is so special and it’s superpower as a team The mentality that management instils at Brentford The importance of having self belief His gambling addiction How he believes that FA made an example out of him Why he was not match fixing His lowest point during his playing ban Being denied entry to a restaurant because of the allegations against him Seeing this chapter of his life as a learning moment How young footballers not being given advice on how to spend their money wisely The racist abuse he has received Why he stopped taking the knee before matches How he plans to be scoring goals in January 2024 Follow Ivan: Instagram: https://bit.ly/47wdaMe Twitter: https://bit.ly/3QM9a4p Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to amazon music who when they heard that we were expanding to the united states and i'd be recording a lot more over in the states they put a massive billboard in time square um for the show so thank you so much amazon music um thank you to our team and thank you to all of you

that listen to this show let's continue in may 26th you did a famous tweet. I'll speak soon with no filter. You ready to speak? 100%. Ivan Tony! Ivan Tony! Ivan Tony handed an eight-month ban. Seismic news for the Premier League. That sums it all up! Football is brutal.

Like 15 being rejected at Leicester. 18 have got to Wolves. Got a squad number. Took the pictures. I don't know where the club's at. They're not looking to sign you no more. You have scoliosis in your back. It hasn't affected your game.

Tony! Ivan Tony! I don't feel like it has. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. I'm built different. Ivan Tony has won his first England call-up. You missed out on the final World Cup squad. Do you know why? Allegations.

Somebody's out to get me, to stop me from playing for England. Ivan Tony has been suspended for eight months with breaching betting rules. why. Allegations. Somebody's out to get me, to stop me from playing for England. Ivan Tony has been suspended for eight months with breaching betting rules. I read the whole FA report. You acknowledged that you lied in that meeting with the FA. I didn't lie, I just couldn't really remember. You admit to 232 breaches. I didn't do, but I took responsibility so the whole process could be cleared up. The bit that I just struggle with is that using someone else to do the bets. You've said to your mate, I can't have that one in my name. Bets for your team to lose.

It's a bigger story. What impact was it having on your life? With me, I never show nothing. I never show emotions. There's been times I've just, I'm in a room on my own, looking to thin air and just, it hurt. When I'm back, I'll do the talk on my feet. You're going to get back to football.

Clubs are going to come knocking. The next club I'll go to, if I was to move, it would be... I always believe that to understand a person, you have to understand their earliest years. I kind of see our earliest years as the, like, oven that we're formed in. So if you take me back to your earliest years,

what do I need to know about you to understand the man you are today? What were the characteristics of that environment that shaped you? Just out the front of where I live is like on the front is a park and like the older guys will just be out the front playing and that's me at like seven eight trying to get involved and these guys are like 15 16 and they were playing rough no matter if you're eight nine ten trying to play with us play with them they're going to be rough so that kind of helped me into today's game how how I am now, progress a lot quicker. And like, even when I was like 16, breaking through at Northampton,

I kind of had that bashing around at a young age by the older guys. So being 16, getting bashed around by men, let's say, I was kind of like used to it. What about hard work? Were you a hardworking man at that age? In terms of running, I never liked running I was always the lazy one at the back of the at the back of the group because I knew

when it's time to get on the pitch I will score goals but like we all know hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard so it's like

kind of like if you've got the talent and you can work on the hard work and put them both together then you give yourself the best chance of becoming a top athlete

and you put the work in to improve that part of your game and attitude yeah I had to because I was when I was training like when I was at Leicester

I got told I wasn't getting a scholarship there so then I went to I didn't really want to play football as much because being rejected at Leicester it's kind of like okay let me just chill for now but then my parents were just like

go to Northampton because there was a game that we played Northampton when I was at Leicester and I think Northampton said if anybody gets released from them let us know I think Leicester must have put me in touch with Northampton I was kind of like I'm really not about going but then I ended up going and it was kind of like everybody's playing for a scholarship and then it was like on the last day everybody already knows they're getting a scholarship.

And I was the only one that wasn't told. So everyone is in the dressing room talking, ah, we've got scholarship, scholarship. I'm there still on trial thinking, when am I getting told? And it wasn't until the next morning on the meeting, like the first meeting of all the scholarship players joined up. I got a phone call and said, he's got got a scholarship we'd like him to come down and i think that point was kind of like okay i got a scholarship this is my chance now but there was a moment there where you were because of the rejection from lester you were considering doing something else with your life yeah i feel like nobody likes rejection. Like being rejected is not the best feeling. And it being like, basically, you're not good enough to be playing football.

How I saw it, you're not good enough to be playing football. Even though it was just, I'm not good enough for Leicester. I might be good enough somewhere else. Somebody else might value my qualities a lot more than Leicester did. It's hard to see that in the moment though, isn't it? Yeah, it's very hard. It's very hard. How old, 16? It was like 15.

15? Yeah. It's kind of like, you don't really want that rejection again. It's like a kind of fear of getting that again. Then when I did, like I said, when I got the scholarship,

I just knew it wasn't happening again. Because your journey through football just generally has been a real climb you know it's been a real real climb like and also reflect on the fact that most so many kids at that age 16 years old they get they get a rejection and they don't bounce back from it and if they don't make it to the very top they'll often take that badly and pursue a different career path but you were rejected at 16 you persevered you got into the team at Northampton you made a good um good impression there and then eventually you end up at Newcastle at what 19? 18. 18 years old how was that experience? It was crazy first time away from home at such a young age, 18, is like...

And as well, you thought you was a man. Like, from League Two, there was talks of you going to a Premier League team. And like... I would never, in the Fountain Changing, feel like I was a man. Like, there was talks going on, but nothing's done until it's done. So it was kind of like... Actually, before I was going to. Like, there was talks going on, but nothing's done until it's done. So it was kind of like, actually,

before I was going to Newcastle, I was supposed to go to Wolves. Right. But, I've got there, I've got to Wolves. I've met everybody, went in the changing rooms,

got my number on, took the pictures, then come to the contract side. And then I think there was a bit of talk with my agent and the club on certain things and then it related back to us it was all just confused, me and my family

didn't know what was going on and then out of nowhere the club come out and said we're not looking to sign you no more due to you having scoliosis in your back. So we were so confused from getting the squad number, meeting all the players, meeting all the staff and then for them to come out and say, your scoliosis in your back, we're not looking to sign you. you it's kind of like is that really the reason

is there more behind it but then from going having to go back to Northampton like I've said my goodbyes at Northampton and I'm supposed to be going signing for Wolves then the next day I'm back in Northampton and training with the boys everybody's like what's happening and the manager sat me down and said listen don, don't dwell on that. I'm sure other things will come into place. And I think a few weeks later, Newcastle were interested and I went there. Scoliosis in your back.

What is scoliosis? And were they aware that you had scoliosis? I feel like they was aware because before we set up to see a specialist, because I feel like they wanted to know what was going on, how bad it was, because I think certain scoliosis, it stops you from walking at a certain age and just gets worse and worse.

But I feel like we did see a specialist who said you'd be lucky to be walking at 28 still. Really? Yeah. And then I was just, like, it doesn't really register. Like, you think at the time at 18, I'm thinking, well, I'm fine now.

I'm enjoying football now. So it's not really registered. But being 27, closer to 28, you kind of think, well, I'm strong, fit and healthy. Touch wood continuously, so. What is scoliosis? Well, your back strong, fit and healthy. Touch wood continuously, so... What is scoliosis?

Well, your back's not straight. It's like got a slight... Bend in your back? Yeah, yeah, bend. It hasn't affected your game? I don't feel like it has. And yeah, going back to moving to Newcastle, it's like going from League Two to premier league it's it's crazy like as soon as

i since i went there i know fancy you get recognized but it's not crazy and then going to their newcastle i'm in the hotel everybody's recognizing recognising me straight away. It's like a crowd outside the hotel waiting to see me and it's kind of like, at 18, this is all happening. So fast. You're away from home as well. Away from home. Damn.

A long way as well. What are you feeling when Newcastle make that phone call and they say they're interested in you and then you move there? What does it feel like as an 18-year-old? Because I can only imagine. I was always playing football when I was younger younger i was always hoping a little bit to be

a footballer i knew i wasn't good enough you know i'm going with that whole got injured at 16 yeah it is crazy it is crazy this is so excited like you want to tell everybody you want to say oh i'm going here tomorrow yeah i'm going here i'm going here tomorrow. Yeah, I'm going here. I'm going here. But with me, how I am, nothing's done till it's done. Especially after the Wolves stuff. Like that was on the back of my mind. So I'm thinking, right, just wait until it's all sorted.

Then you can tell everyone. When I'm so excited, I just want to tell this person, that person, this is happening. So yeah, it was crazy. My head was all over the place and thinking, I'm actually going to the Premier League.

I've made it. I'm here. But little did I know, I thought I made it. What happened? I feel like when you take that step, you get noticed more. You get more money. And you just do silly things. Like you get mixed in the wrong crowd,

going out here and there, buying things you wouldn't normally buy. Just a bit naive. And as well, being away from my family. Although they they kept on telling me don't do nothing silly look after your money this and that you kind of think okay but they're not here to control what i've got hold of right now i can spend it on this i can spend it on that like you just do things like i said things you'd never normally do Like we're getting personal shoppers to come to the house. And who do you think I am?

Go to the shop and buy yourself stuff if you want to do that. So it's like these kind of things. But yeah, I think it didn't come at me fast. I wouldn't say that. I'd say just like a surprise kind of thing. Like I said, I thought I'd made it. So whatever happens, I'm fine. I'd say just like a surprise kind of thing. Like, like I said, I thought I'd made it.

So whatever happens, I'm fine. I'm in the Premier League. What was the advice that you needed at that point that you didn't get? Like, if you could go back now and have a chat with Ivan and say, listen, bro,

you arrive at Newcastle that day and you get a chance just to say a couple of things to him. What do you say? I'll sit down and have a long chat with him. It'll be a long chat. No, I think I'd just say like, this is where the hard work starts. It's not finished. You can't pull it on cruise control.

You got to go to extra gear. Like, yeah, I'm at a Premier League club, but I haven't played yet. I've not got continuous games under my belt to be saying, okay, am I a Premier League player now? So it's like I'd say to a younger Ivan

or anybody that's in that situation doing such a big jump to say that's when the hard work starts Were you in cruise control? Do you think? Yeah, if I even was moving I'd probably put a handbrake on I just thought

I'm Premier League now as well you've seen all the big boys like literally training there it's like yeah I'm here now

and you played two games before they loaned you out yeah I came off the bench twice against United and Chelsea and then you went on quite a long loan spell.

Barnsley, Shrewsbury, Wiggins, Gunthorpe. When you find out you're getting loaned out, how do you receive that as a player? I've always wondered this. When you're a young player in the club, you're in the Premier League, because I think there's a lot about Manchester United as being a fan.

We always loan out our younger lads. And I wonder how that's positioned to you as a player and how you receive it it's not the best feeling okay because at the time

it's kind of like what do you not want me here like I'm here now you want to send me away like yeah and you've got the personal

shopper coming over exactly yeah yeah so I need to I need to sort some things out to be you can't be in Shrewsbury yeah

I don't think you'll travel that far but now yeah I feel like like it's at that age you don't really think what you're going to learn for I mean

first team experience is is probably the best at that age as well and like knowing like because I feel like no disrespect to youth team football

it's cool like tic-a-tac-a pretty football then going to League One like I said on loan you're going to get

bashed around so you need to be ready for that physical battle and I feel like going on loan definitely helped me

looking back now it helped me a lot but at the time I was thinking I don't need to go on loan. I'm ready to be playing in the Premier League. I feel like from young, I've always had that. My dad always told me, no matter where you are,

if you have that mentality that you're a Premier League player, but at the moment you're just on League One, that's fine. But if you don't have that mentality that I'm a Premier League player, so I don't need to try here, then it's not going to work out so it doesn't matter where you are

if you have the mentality I should be playing in the Premier League but right now I'm playing here that's fine and I feel like you go a long way to

where I am now I'm a Premier League player and that bit of advice that my dad gave me was very key. When you went off on loan and they say, okay, you're leaving Newcastle now,

does that take you out of cruise control and into like, right, I've got something to prove again? It should. It should have. But it didn't? It didn't really because I always believed that no matter what happened where I went, I'm going back to Newcastle. So no matter if I played, didn't play at all or played rubbish, I'm going back to Newcastle so no matter if I played

didn't play at all or played rubbish I'm going back to Newcastle back to the Premier League but not knowing the effects that could have or it did have in the end even though

I think all the clubs I went to bar one I left top goal scorer but it was like I could have looking back I feel like I could have

went that extra step further You had a good spell as well at Scunthorpe United six goals and 15 appearances showed a huge promise while you were on your

loan spells as a prolific goal scorer and then at 22 years old you transferred to Peterborough United after failing to secure a regular place at Newcastle now that that must have been an interesting moment because that's kind of like another knockback in it goes back to like Leicester the Leicester rejection and stuff that's like another step down you've made it to the prem and now you've got got to take a step down yeah it was a mass not actually not i wouldn't say a massive not not back it was a not back but it was kind

of like maybe a not back i needed at the time because like i remember sitting down with my dad and my agent at the time and saying listen listen, me and my dad are brutal. Whoever we work with, we want the honest truth. No matter if they say we don't want him, he's not good enough for us, I'd rather my agent tell me that. But how the relationship was with my agent at the time, it kind of sugarcoat things.

Right. So me and my dad kind of had to get out of him. What did the club say? Like, just tell us, be honest. And his words were, the club don't think you're good enough already at this moment in time. So it was kind of like, in my head, it was like, okay, fine, no problem. It's time for me to go elsewhere.

Then regroup and restart. It wasn't like I was too old. It was just a knock back and setback that, like I said at the time, probably needed to kickstart my journey again. Do you think Newcastle were right

in saying that? Possibly. Don't get me wrong, Newcastle are a great club. They've had some great players and doing very well at the moment. But I feel like I didn't really have

a chance in the first team to prove if I was good enough. I feel personally, anyway. And to be fair, at the time was when Newcastle were fighting to stay up in the Premier League

when Rafa Benitez first come in. Oh, yeah. So it was kind of understandable you wanted these players to try and keep them up we wanted experience and stuff more than like to be given youth younger players a chance and stuff is that you're saying yeah i feel like i mean you can't really put so much responsibility on youth players or young players to keep you up in the premier league it is such a big ask, but I feel like maybe the following season,

it was kind of like, could he get a sniff? And I think he kind of brought his own players in and done his own thing, which is, that's football. So off you go to Peterborough, you're closer to your family at this point, which helps.

Closer. Yeah. I'm a mummy's boy at heart so I leave my mum around close and did it change your attitude

moving to Peterborough on like this whole cruise control thing yeah it did and especially when I went to first went to Peterborough I wasn't playing

like the first I'd say 10 games the strikers that were in front of me was scoring every game assisting

playing well but the manager at the time Steve Evans was just saying don't worry your chance will come and when your chance comes

it's up to you to take it and your chance came yeah and then you took it yeah 100% took it. You scored 24 goals in 32 League One games at Peterborough,

which is insane. Yeah, like the competitions all over the field, but especially as a striker, you need your job to score goals. And especially when the other two are scoring goals. If you get that one sniff and you don't score, you're back out again. And it gives him another opportunity.

The director of football at Peterborough said you were an incredibly hard worker. He also said you were their best defender because you headed away nine out of 10 corners. I feel like, yeah, them games I kind of had a magnet on my head that was just bringing the ball towards me. But yeah, no, I think the hard work as well like when I'm loved by a manager I feel like and a club I

feel like it's in me to want to give back I want to do a lot of things for like run for a brick wall for the manager that's wanting me in this position. Do they become like proxy father figures to you in that regard? Because you're clearly a man that's close to your father. Do they kind of, you know what I'm saying? Is that, is it a similar relationship, like where you want to do them proud? Yeah, a hundred percent. And especially when I signed, like when I first signed with Peter, with Steve Evans, like the first time he spoke to me,

he just, it was like a friend, like a normal chat, even though you have the respect as a manager, but he was saying, listen, I want you to come in and score goals and go higher. Like the goals you score for us benefits you and us because we're going to go higher and you're going to go higher. So it's a win-win. And I think him putting an arm around me at that time knowing I've come

from a Premier League club and saying it's not really a knockback this is where you kick start your journey again having that I think definitely helped me and didn't you have I read somewhere that you had a agreement with them like a verbal agreement that if a bigger club came knocking, they wouldn't stand in your way, Peterborough. That probably was a verbal agreement, but if anybody knows the Peterborough staff and the owners, then they probably have different ideas. But I mean, yeah, I guess when I did go, that was the right timing.

Every player thinks when there's a move on the cards, you want to try and rush it through and if things aren't right then they're not right for a reason like you can't rush good things good things aren't rushed i think at the time there was a chance i could have went to somewhere i tried to rush it through and it was like don't worry oh really so there was offers from other clubs there was offers from other clubs yeah but big clubs um biggish at the time okay like championship clubs yeah championship clubs and he was saying just just be patient you're gonna get a better better club and i'm just there like not kicking my not throwing my toys out of frame just be like wow this is a chance to move now who's to know what can happen blah blah and

then i ended up staying and and i went to brentford which was probably the best choice in the end and yet around this time i mean just before then 21 years old you become a father for the first time yeah i mean that's that's as well what helps me kickstart my journey as well because i feel like i've got people to provide for um i have expensive taste as well so it's either choosing my expensive taste or my family so if i could school goals and help both then it's perfect so i think that's what helped me pick things up and how to provide for people does that focus you because i'm not a dad yet but it's around the corner for me i'm sure um does that focus your priorities in a sense like does it make because

i speak to my mates who've all had kids and they almost describe that moment when their baby first comes they kind of see the world differently and they're like responsibilities differently and stuff 100 100 like you can't do the things you normally do you have to think baby first in all aspects did it make your game better? 100% yeah

really? yeah 100% definitely how? it's in like I want to make him proud so when he's older that's my dad

he's done this he's doing this this is this so it's kind of like a pride thing as well as wanting to do well for my family

and have a better better lifestyle for everybody not just me and my people I provide for when did you find out that Brentford are interested

it was actually training at St George's Park yeah with Peterborough and there was talks of going here there and I was kind of like I'm gonna know him just like yeah when it's when it's something concrete then let me know right now I just want to focus on training hard because it's easy to be led astray when

this club's interesting you this club's interest in you, this club's interested in you. You hear loads of things, but then nothing's concrete. Like, it's all well and good. These are looking at you. These are looking at you. But these times, I'm not a kid no more. When they want me and put a bid in, then we can start talking.

Whereas hearing they're interested, what does that mean? That doesn't mean nothing. Like, everybody can be interested, but nobody wants you. So when Brentford come along and I was interested and actually put a bid in, it's like, okay. I spoke to the manager.

He kind of was straightforward and said, you're going to come in and be the main man. We want you to be starting every game and score goals and do your job. Then either take us up or go to a higher club. we want you to be starting every game and score goals and do your job. Then either take us up or go to a higher club. So you get that call from Brentford. They put a bid in.

You speak to the manager, Thomas Frank? Yes. And Thomas says, listen, you're going to be our number one. I think it was a no brainer. I think I did speak to other clubs What other clubs? I went up Actually I went up to Rangers Oh nice

Spoke with The manager there Which was Steven Gerrard at the time And Manchester United Did you speak to Yeah they said I wasn't good enough I was going to say

I'm going to fucking call them right now No yeah I went to I went to I went to Rangers we spoke a bit but then they said it was like two

I think it was two strikers at the time and then I was looking to get another one in so it would have been like four strikers and I think the formation they played

majority of the time one striker at top so you would have been like third choice or something yeah something like this and then we went to Celtic

we spoke to Celtic and I think it was like the same there I'm one of three strikers or something like this and I think

at the time when it was I was moving I wanted to be like the main guy like I think the crucial thing for me

is playing games even though I back myself on competing with other strikers but I want to know that when I go in first through the door on the main man up front and it's up to me to keep my position I feel like when I spoke to the manager at Brentford he pretty much said you're the main guy

and I don't see nobody taking your spot so you make sure you produce produce the goods and it's yours really you you've worked a lot of clubs um you've played at a lot of different clubs Brentford are special they're really really special because they are based on their resources they are objectively overachieving in a really, really significant way. What is it about Brentford, from your experience, that is making, what is that magic that they have? Hard work, plain and simple. Hard work.

Like, we're not the best technically gifted team. We have some magicians in the team, but other than that, it's just hard work. I mean, and we fear nobody. We respect them, but we don't fear them. So when we go to, let's say, Anfield away or Chelsea away or these kind of games,

we know they're probably on paper better than us, got some big names and this and that. But at the end of the day, the main thing that wins games is hard work and a little bit of quality, I guess, putting the ball in the back of the net. And I feel like throughout the club, everybody knows what the manager wants. You have to be willing to run for your teammate, the person to your left, the person to your left, the person to your right and the fans and everybody.

And everybody knows the responsibility they have on their shoulders when they step onto the pitch. So I think that's probably what's brought us to where and how well we're doing at the moment.

And even like, at the moment, the team playing without me, I hear and people say, I reckon Brentford are going to be like this now, you're not playing this and that. And I'm thinking, no, they're not going to struggle because they work hard.

And when you work hard, you give yourself the best chance of winning a game. And I know deep down Brentford will be fine with or without me. You've played at a lot of clubs, right? So you can kind of compare and contrast. Is there anything else other than just that work ethic that you've noticed

is just different at Brentford? So you've got super hard work. Is there anything else, their approach to things or the strategy or the way that they... I feel like they're together in this as well. How everybody's like, everybody talks to everyone.

I've been at clubs where it's like a certain group sit there certain groups sit there like everybody divided it's like

but it's not that at Brentford everybody mixes with everybody you've got people of Spanish Danish which is the majority

of the club at the moment English and everything and everybody just mixes together so it's not like oh let me

where are my friends where should I sit down at lunch you just get your lunch sit down here you talk with whoever and the manager that comes from him

I feel like he makes sure the togetherness and the humbleness like there's no nobody at the club thinks they're better than nobody like even last season i scored 20 goals i wasn't about nobody i was the same the person that doesn't really play too much they're not less of a person than me we're all the same we're all

in it together so i feel like that comes from the manager and his philosophy at the club and how he wants things to be run what are the things that you i often think with managers and ceos and stuff like there's they have their like core principles which you just get bored of hearing because they say it over and over and over and over again what are those things that he just repeats over and over and over again togetherness Yeah. And attitude. And I guess he polices that pretty. Yeah, all the time. It's all over the club. It's all in the meetings.

Which is probably why, like I said, we're doing so well as a club and as a whole unit. What's the dressing room, the training ground dressing room culture like? Can I ask this? Because I've spoken to so many players at United in particular, and especially in the Fergie years, they always talk about the like,

the self-policing culture in the dressing room. You know, like what's that like? Versus other clubs? Yeah, it's like I said, yeah, it's good. There's other clubs I've been at, it's been good said yeah it's good there's other clubs I've been at it's been good as well

but not how it is in Brentford I feel like Brentford is probably one of the best dressing rooms I've been in in terms of everybody knows their drill everyone knows their position

everybody's helping others like everybody's just like they respect if something's on the floor tidy, pick it up put it in there like them kind of things they respect if something's on the floor tidy, pick it up put it in there like

them kind of things is key if you want to be achieving something big and I feel like with that in the changing room as well as

in the gym or in the in the dinner hall is key and everybody's up for everybody it's like one big family unit

26 years old you're named Brentford's player of the season you scored 12 goals in the first Premier League season and then you scored 20 goals in your second Premier League season

finishing third in the Golden Beat rankings behind Haaland and Harry Kane that's big yeah it is big it is big but sometimes I really Harland and Harry Kane. That's big. Yeah. It is big, it is big.

But sometimes I don't really realise how big it is. Because sometimes at home I'm thinking, yeah, but I'm not first. In my head, if you're not first, you're last. Then, like my family say, look who you're behind and look at the calibre of players that are playing in the Premier League and you've scored more than these guys

I'm always thinking yeah but I could have scored more you think you could score more than Haaland? what you got to remember it's like 30 something 36

I mean not I mean not more but I look back on chances that should have been a goal and I feel like there probably is like 15, 16 chances

that I probably could have scored or should have scored so if I was as clinical as Haaland was not to say I'll beat him but

I could be a lot higher than a lot higher than 20 England England's football team I saw I think I saw a post on your Instagram

a couple of weeks ago about that being a huge dream for you to play for England yeah I think everybody wants to play for England

yeah as a kid just kicking the ball at the shed I remember just screaming like Gerrard's name and Lampard's name,

like when they're on the field, just kicking and, like you said, when that opportunity was around and I was in talks of it, it just didn't, it didn't feel real from being Ivan from Northampton,

just playing out the front, getting bashed around by the older lot to actually having a chance to play for England was something I would never have dreamt of You missed out on

the final World Cup squad lots of circulating rumours about why would you know why? I guess I guess it comes down

to the allegations on the betting scandal I guess I guess it comes down to the allegations on the betting scandal but I feel like personally I felt like it was a bit of a questionable time when they decided to bring it all out

and then when they actually dealt with the situation come the end of the season it was kind of like what would you bring out then to and then punish me situation come the end of the season it's kind of like what did you bring out then to and then punish me at the end of the season

So they brought it so I guess you're saying that you suspect they brought it out at that time to prevent you going to play for England I assume so and to make it a bigger story Ah okay

Personally anyway I don't know if it's true like I'm not to know what's behind the scenes but I feel like if you have somebody going to the World Cup that's supposed to be betting then it's kind of like

a bigger story I'm not really clued up on this whole FA thing the England team play under the fa yeah and the fa are also the sort of body that brought the charges against you yeah so they so one might assume that they released the charges at that point because if they didn't then there might be some ramifications on the england team or the

perceptions of the england team or something? Yeah, I assume so. I'm not too aware of all this stuff but I feel like it was a bit of a coincidence when they decided to bring it all out and then having to

be dealt with the punishment at the end of the season so far after. It's kind of like, I mean, you know, well, I feel like, yes, I'm banned now,

but the biggest punishment for me was missing out on playing at the World Cup, personally. I felt more hurt and, what's the word? It's kind of like, yeah, I just felt down around the time. I felt like somebody's out to get me at that time to stop me from playing for England. In my head, like, that's just how I seen it at the time. It's like, they want to punish me for this,

missing out on England. The World Cup, like, that's everybody's dream to be playing at the World Cup. And then further down the line, ban me as well. It's kind of like a double hit, I feel.

In a sense, whereas, like I said, if he was going to do, if he was going to stop me from going to the World Cup, do it there and then and deal with it

deal with the whole situation rather than doing that miss out on the World Cup and then let me play the rest of the season and then banning me after the season it doesn't add up

in my head to be fair anyway When you say I felt down about it what does that mean in real terms if I was a fly on the wall in your life when when that information came in that was probably my excuse me that was probably like the lowest point i was like with me i never show nothing i never

show emotion too tough but i think that was probably the lowest point I felt. Like, he'd ask me about it. I was like, yeah, it is what it is. But that it is what it is is kind of like... I don't want to talk about it. Yeah, damn. It hurt. It did hurt. Do you cry?

No. I don't feel like crying solves anything. Personally, that's my personal views. Everybody says to me, you need to show emotion. You can cry, it's okay. I've only cried once when I see my nan cry from losing my pap. And seeing her hurt as much as she was killed me inside. And it was kind of like,

I didn't cry a cry, but it was like tears in my eyes coming down. It was kind of like, it was painful. Do you express how you're feeling to anyone in your life at that point? To your partner, to your family, your mum, your dad?

When you find out that you're not going to play for England and the rumours are out about this gambling situation, when you find out that you're not going to play for england and they've you know the rumors are out about this gambling situation do you tell anyone how you're actually feeling um no but people that know me know my actions and how that leads to how i'm feeling like i'd be a lot more like snappy about things or i'll just be like like i can just be like, I can just be like, and someone be talking to me and it's not like really registering. But my head's not really in the room kind of thing.

And that people that know me know, like something's up, something's wrong. What was the reality of the situation? What was going on inside your head? And how was it, when you say down and you say that was the reality of the situation? What was going on inside your head? And how was it, when you say down and you say that was the lowest point, what does that mean in real terms?

I wouldn't say depressed as such, but it was kind of like, not far off that. If anything, towards that direction, but not completely. Because still how I stay in my head is like, next opportunity, next day, another day is another day to put things right and try and be as positive as I can.

Have you ever had anxiety? Probably, but how I am, I don't let it get to me as much. Like I'd say the loan spells, when I'm on loan, I'm in a room on my own. There's been times I've just literally sat there without the TV on, just sat there

and just like chilling and just looking into thin air and just thinking about things. But I'd never, like I said, I'd never like let nobody know how I'm feeling. Because how I am as a person, I feel like it eats away at me. i'm just always a smiley one always like i ask people at brentford now i'm the joker i'm making sure everyone's fine these kind of things i think that's my kind of way of beating my emotions um if i see this person happy from me doing that then it kind of brings me up to make me happy kind of thing did you did you not speak to anyone like a professional about about this

stuff because i always think when we bottle up our emotions it's not like they go away it's like almost like they they eat us up from inside and they they come out in other ways like you were saying snappiness or whatever or you know surely there's someone around you that said you need to see someone yeah that's yeah there was but as well me being stubborn it's kind of like nah i'm fine it's fine like i'll be right tomorrow i'll be right later i'll be right next week i feel like i can speak to anybody in my family, but my stubbornness just don't allow me to. I think a lot of men can relate to that, you know? Yeah, 100%.

I feel like I do need to get better at that. Personally. In May 26th, you did a famous tweet. Do you know the tweet I'm talking about? Yeah. I'll speak soon with no filter. You ready to speak? And what did that tweet mean?

That was just speak on everything, really. But obviously when I done that, it went crazy. And then my family just said, said listen you don't need to talk just when you get on a pitch let your feet do the talking like what's it

damage is done you can't talk and it's not going to help no situation if anything could not

damage my reputation or my career but just make people think. Not that I care what people think. It's just could put in a work set.

Who do you think he is? That kind of thing. But it doesn't benefit no parties. What headspace were you in when you tweeted that? Probably a reckless one. Really? Yeah. How were you feeling?

Thinking. I don't care attitude I'd say kind of a defence mechanism against pretty much yeah against everybody like even like little things like

for the whole situation not not like my friends my friends my friends the one I stick with they're the people

I chill with all the time but it's even like when I go I don't know if it's just me thinking certain things but it's like when I go certain places like

maybe some people don't want to be associated with me in a certain way of obviously because of media kind of thing

and it's kind of like not killing their image but it's kind of like you're chilling with this guy he's a match fixer he's a match fixer he's match fixing football the and like even like

I remember at the time when there was allegations I wanted to go into a restaurant and I was like no you can't we're not taking you the restaurant? a restaurant

and I was like what do you mean? that's ours because the allegations we're not allowing you in or something like this i was actually so confused i was thinking for starters it's allegations and secondly your restaurant how can you not let someone in due to bad press that's what they call it bad press i was just baffled and even to like my my car insurance they wouldn't insure me due to the whole scandal i was just like a car insurance they don't want me on their books because

which was baffling i read through the the whole FA report, many, many pages. I think it was like 25-odd pages. I have it here just to understand the case better, just so I made sure I didn't make any errors in my observations. But there's no, I think there's actually a line in there where the commission say they didn't believe you were doing any match fixing it was far from match fixing yeah i wrote that down in my in my notes that um they concluded that you hadn't been match

fixing or anything like that in their report um so that that allegation from whoever said that the restaurant or whatever um doesn't seem to have a basis in the report at all and i'm sure there was certain articles on saying match fixing as well, which is, that's probably the media for you, making it a big talking point. When the FA first contact you and they ask, they make a request for information, don't they? So they want to know more information.

This is dating back to 2022, I believe. When you get that first contact how does that feel like your dad or your agent must have told you that the fa have been in touch well they wanted information from as far back as 2015 so it's kind of like i haven't got that as long as i haven't got that phone that I had back then to give you information. But I wanted to cooperate how I can to let you investigate what you want to investigate. And when the club actually pulled me into a room

and they spoke to me and said, they've already been in touch with you, match fixing, this and that. They want to speak to you. And I said, okay. This is Brentford? This is Brentford, yeah. touch with you match fixing this and that they want to speak to you and i said okay this is brentford this is brentford yeah i said okay no problem like then he was like have you done any bets whilst whilst you've been at brentford and have you been betting on football and i was like no i haven't i haven't i haven't done no bets fixing fixing football match fixing football

like it's like okay well the FA want to speak to you don't delete nothing on your phone because there's a system that

they said they can get like old messages or whatever they said so I said no problem I'm not I'm not deleting nothing if they can go through

what they want to go through and then they called you in for an interview in may 2022 yeah and they ask you all these questions again about what you've been involved in with betting etc yeah and they asked me certain things that happened like seven eight years ago i'm to the top of my head so much information in front of you at one time it's kind of like i actually can't remember i can't remember and there's i think i was in there for like what five hours five hours yeah but at that time you you maintained to them that you're not better on football yeah and i was i wasn't aware what what that was what i was trying to get

you acknowledged later on that you you basically lied in that meeting with the FA. I didn't lie. I just couldn't really remember what they were asking for. At the time, I couldn't remember until they brought some things in front of me and it was kind of like, okay, he's talking about my memory. Like I said, I cooperated with everything they wanted to do and we kind of spoke on it and then I told them the truth about everything one of the things people might find surprising is they they asked for your they asked for your mobile phones and stuff and then they like image your mobile phones to check

like all the messages you've sent to people going back a long time on the on these phones to find out everything you've been said and also as you said they they ask you not to delete any messages which you didn't from from what the commission said um but how does that feel when the fa ask for your mobile phone and they you know they're going to scan it for everything it doesn't feel yeah it's just kind of like it's your privacy and they're like invading it it's kind of like i've got something pitched on there i wouldn't want them to see like these kind of things so it's pretty much like

you have to go with what they're saying otherwise I feel like I think the you get a longer ban for not cooperating or something like this so

what can I do you want to take my phone take my phone and all your bank statements as well everything they asked for your bank statements which you handed over as well

yeah um you handed over i believe multiple phones no just the one phone just the one phone there was a there was some they said that was another phone but that wasn't that as well and then eventually you admit to 232 breaches of their rules and the FA rule E8, which is betting over five seasons from 25th of February 2017 to betting up until January 21. Yes, I believe so. And like I said, there was people saying I was match fixing, but none of it was match fixing. It was just, like I said before,

I was betting on myself to score first from I think this was a while back and it's kind of like that's not like I'm not trying to do not trying I'm still trying to do the right thing it's not like I'm

smashing someone and getting a yellow card here there and everywhere yeah and the report actually does say that it says that you weren't you weren't it's the commission said that you weren't match fixing which is a completely different completely different thing they're making bets on like games that you're either you're playing and betting on yourself to score or betting on the team when you're not in the team which is what from what i read which is what what happened gambling and generally when did that start in your life? When did you start first gambling?

I think it's just kind of like, as you're young, it's like a little flutter, they call it. Even like the fair arcade kind of thing, just trying to win a little change or something, all these kind of things. So I'd say like around 15. Yeah, 15 as such. And it got progressively worse? Or more intense?

Yeah, I'd say the more money you get, the more, the higher the stakes go. It's kind of like, oh, if I lose this, it's fine. This is coming next month. Did you not realise, you know, throughout

those sort of five years when you were batting a lot 232 breaches that your relationship with batting was unhealthy I think on the

on the 232 breaches like there was there was some bets in there that like I don't recall making

but I was willing to take responsibility just to get the process all over and done with because having that hovering over me and trying to concentrate my career is not is not the best feeling far from the best feeling and I don't I don't want to finish on 20 goals with that hanging over me but in terms of thinking do you have a problem it's kind of like you don't think of

if I lose this this is going to happen so it's like once I won this this this this can happen you never think of the

negatives you always think of the positives and being on the money I was on which I thought was a lot of the time and it's kind of like it's fine I'll get there in the back end of the month

oh that's coming back this and this month oh he owes me this it's fine what impact was it having on your life betting? um

I feel like it was just the impact it would have it was just waiting for payday. Right. Like no matter what happens with the marks, you wait for payday. But you could spend your wage and then wait for payday.

Spend your wage, wait for payday. Yeah. But I'd pay and sort everything I need to pay for first. And then it's like, I got this to play with. Do that. It's fine.

Payday will come soon. So it wasn't so it wasn't it wasn't like spend this money I should be giving here or paying on this you took care of your I took care of

what needed to be cared of and in my head it's kind of like my money is my money but I can spend it how I wanna

and yeah pretty much pretty much like that I've made my own money. It's up to me how I want to spend it. One of the things that was quite surprising is bets for your team to lose

when you weren't playing in the team. You knew betting was wrong, right? Like you knew that as a footballer you weren't allowed to bet. My knowledge of, not, my knowledge of betting on football, that I don't think, I recall once,

somebody coming and just giving a talk on their experience betting, not, you can't bet on football. So it wasn't like, I shouldn't be betting on this, shouldn't be betting on that. And I feel like, I think the bets that were on my team to lose when i'm not playing

i think a few of the majority of those were within the bets that i know about personally i think i didn't didn't do but i still took responsibility of them for them so the whole process could get cleared up and you um you don't know about some of these bets you're saying because you did them through somebody else yeah and you did them through somebody else because you knew

you weren't allowed to right it wasn't through that I knew I wasn't allowed to it was that I didn't want my parents seeing what I'm doing

with my money this was a point of contention in the documents the FA said he's betting through somebody because he didn't want he didn't want the FA to find out you're saying you you bet through somebody else

because your parents the mail was going to their house and you didn't want them opening up the post and seeing it yeah that's right essentially that was a point i mean the commission go go their own way on that um and then okay so moving on from that that, there's all these aggravating factors in the document. Was he aware of the rules? I think you eventually admitted that you were aware of the rules in terms of not being able to bet on football. Going back to the days, I think, in Northampton, I think, was it Northampton?

One of your previous, I think your previous chairman at the football club was thrown out because of a betting scandal and then you have a relative in your life that was also issued with a breach of the

FA rules for betting in 2007 as well so the commission concluded that you were aware of the rules and that you couldn't bet but you sort of counteracted that by

saying you didn't have I think it was it was kind of a grey area right I think there was a time where like I said, the clubs I've been at,

they were at the beginning of every season. I feel like they'd have somebody come in but not actually tell you what you can and what you can't bet on. What would that person say? Just his experiences on betting. He'd come in and say, this is me betting. And then,

I've lost this much. I've come through this. So if you think about betting, don't do it. So it wasn't like, you can't be betting on football, or you can't be betting on, yeah, you can't be betting on football. It was just his experiences of going through a gambling stage. So you didn't know you couldn't bet as a player?

No. I think it was a grey area. You'd hear you can, you hear you didn't know you couldn't bet as a player no I think it was a grey area you'd hear you can you can't and then there's certain things

you say you can't bet on like with me personally I feel like it was a grey area and you admitted in the second

aggravating factor was about knowing whether you basically admitting to whether you were betting or not and in the interview with the commission,

during the process, you said that you had lied earlier on by saying, I don't bet on football in an earlier interview. But, you know, that was one of the first interviews you had and you'd responded, I don't bet on football. And that wasn't accurate.

Yeah, that was when, obviously, they threw everything at me. I thought if I was just denied, then it's all fine they wouldn't find nothing but then obviously they'd take your phone

yeah then everything went through and then yeah I admit to I admit to what I'd done in the FA the fourth aggravating factor was whether

the player sought to conceal his identity when he set up his own betting account 2017 the commission didn't accept the FA submission there

they didn't they didn't believe that you'd concealed it in that regard whether the player deleted messages issue number five commission concluded

that there wasn't evidence that you'd deleted any messages I was accused of deleting messages yeah that's right yeah by the FA but the commission

said that they didn't have substantial evidence for that yeah kind of the same because I was the commission said that they didn't have substantial evidence for that. Yeah. Because I was told not to delete nothing from the club. The commission couldn't find any evidence that you had deleted anything.

And then the phone issue we've talked about already, the last issue was around whether you had a gambling addiction. And they brought out a psychologist called Dr. Philip Hopley, who looked at you, did interviews with you um he's a highly qualified and experienced psychiatric expert according to the commission and he interviewed you on two occasions and he formed a clear opinion that you had a gambling addiction and accordingly the commission accepted the findings of the doctor on this issue and that's part of the reason that you were given a more lenient sentence because Dr. Hopley said that you had an impulsive, compulsive disorder. Yeah.

Was that the first time you'd heard of gambling addiction? Yeah. Through this process, this tribunal? Yeah, because I feel like it wouldn't be in me to bring myself forward to speak to one of these people to see if i did have one so it's kind of like like i said my stubbornness comes comes into play on this one it's kind of like no i'm fine i can stop when i want to stop what did he explain did someone explain to you what a gambling addiction is since then I'm fine, I can stop when I want to stop.

Has someone explained to you what a gambling addiction is since then? A little bit, yeah. We did speak with us hopefully on around what an addiction is, but it's kind of like you don't allow yourself to believe it. Like, I feel like if you want to stop doing something, I feel like people think in their head, I can stop if I want to.

But not knowing deep down, you probably can't. Could you have stopped? Probably. Yeah, I feel like it's 50-50. You could have stopped, but I feel like the thrill on it's i feel like it's 50 50 you could have stopped but i feel like the thrill on it is kind of like what keeps you going because the fa that sort of counterpoint to that was that there was periods where you you didn't you didn't gamble so they would they were saying that to the commission that you know it's not gambling addiction because there's parts of his journey where he's not gambling or he's betting on other things for example um do you still gamble now no anything

no any betting at all across any no has that required therapy or any sort of professional support i think it's kind of being in the public eye if I was to be like going into these places and these kind of things I think it's more the embarrassment that it's still continuing like this kind of thing

so I wouldn't allow myself and like you look back I think like you sit take a back seat and look at all the money you've lost and what you could have went on

and what and especially now having people to provide for it's kind of like you can't be spending that money on this it can go to here or like just manage your money better how I look at things and how I look at me I see that as

being naive we don't really get much information do we uh growing up about gambling well really how did like how to spend our money or tax especially i think about you guys as like young you know 20 year olds that are just you know playing football and then you become millionaires because you're good at it it's kind of different for like my pursuit because i'm building a business you have cfos you have finance people around you you have controls budgets forecasts pnls all this stuff so you know you're surrounded by like money minds and brains around you when you're building a business but being a young 20 year old millionaire who i'm presuming nobody gave you financial education no it's kind of like

like you said yeah being having that much money at a tender age it's kind of like what do i do with it and i'm not a family that comes from money so it's not like my parents could help me a lot with that but they they would have their say on certain things. But it's like, you kind of have to try and just manage it yourself and just assume doing this is the right thing. You don't know what you don't know. Pretty much.

The bit of this case that I was, I found difficult is that using someone else to do the bets because for me that's that points to like in that he did know i think that's what people would think they'd look at that and go of course 100 conceal it because i'm thinking your mom your mom and dad ain't open your post at 27 years old like my mom ain't gonna open my post no this was this is when i was away oh you were like 20 yeah so i know my post did go to my parents and i feel like of course your parents want to be knowing what's going on if you're getting this letter through that's you're not

paying this or like like i said seeing what you're spending your money on and i feel like because we're a tight family my mom would worry about that and there was actually times where she's opened it and she's kind of said some things about it and the fa had highlighted the text message you'd sent where you'd said to your mate i can't have that one in my name what was the app i gambled on on your phone this time from text messages that they'd found that's the bit that i struggled with was i was like i wasn't sure there but this chapter of your life has clearly been a big learning moment 100 i feel like looking back on what i've done well i changed some bits probably but it is what it is and the manner i'm now continuing forward it's kind of it is different to what i was before do you take like when we

think about responsibility for our actions what's what what responsibility do you take for all of this where you say listen this is this is what i take responsibility for here um and this is also like going back to a question i asked earlier about like what do you wish someone had had said to you when you first did that i don't know those those bets five five six seven years ago um what's the responsibility you take and what's the what's the lesson you've taken from this process i think the responsibility i take was yeah i was betting on myself to score first which now you i know you shouldn't be doing which i take responsibility and i'll take full responsibility for the punishment i'm getting now. So it would be kind of like...

And what I tell my younger self around them kind of times, it's like, manage your money better. Don't get mixed in the wrong crowd, let's say. And just don't follow fashion. Have your own mind frame on what you should and shouldn't be doing or if you don't know look more into it and if that's what you really want to do look more into

it and what you can and can and can't do it's interesting because when they were deliberating your your punishment one of the things that came to mind is perception and what it would what the perception it would send to the rest of the the game um do you think they they made an example of you i feel so yeah do you think that's right i can't i don't think it's right no but because you're a high profile premier league player obviously if if you get away with doing something like this this could other players low levels could also emulate it. So they've got an opportunity here to send a message.

100%. 100%. And I feel like a lot of people think that in terms of, if I know disrespect to lower leagues, but if I was, we actually did look at some cases that was somewhat similar, somewhat worse, and their punishment wasn't like how mine is. I think the fact that it's the opportunity, the fact that I'm playing in the Premier League, doing well, sniff around England,

it's kind of like, right, there's a chance to punish him. Then people know this is kind of the punishment you're looking at if you want to do what I've done. It's funny because I was actually surprised to read that in the analysis section of this document where it says the perception of the impact of football betting on the

integrity of the game is a key consideration when deciding on your sanction which does kind of suggest that they're quite intentional in making sure that they make an example of you thereabouts in their words and obviously you have a huge position of influence so that's that's key um and then they submit their the fa suggested that that you get 12 months

ban as a suspension i believe and that was their final sanction. The commission didn't accept that. Ordinarily, the commission would have imposed 15 months suspension had you not pled guilty to the charges, which lowered your sanction. And then also you got another reduction in the sanction because of the findings from the doctor who found that you had a gambling addiction, which brought your sentence down to eight months

and you were fined 50,000 pounds. It's interesting because, you know, I'm a huge football fan, so I want to see you play. And you're on such a role. Brentford are on such a role. So like, as a football fan, although you smashed United last year,

like it was so, it's so good to see like a young, black English striker tearing up the game at its peak. It's gutting to see you out of the game. It is. And I feel like, like how I am and how people know how I stay.

This is, this is nothing. I know for a fact I'll come back stronger than this. I'm better than I was before. Like this is, gives me the hunger again to recharge and come back on another level. Like I said before earlier, no time to dwell on things. No time to dwell on things. And it's like, just when that first game comes and I can play, then it's not a ball game. It's on.

When you found out you were suspended for eight months how did that feel what's that like because you know you're in the peak of your powers right now right

yeah I know it's painful but I feel like the hard part is kind of now because

right now I'll be playing football matches and I'll kind of be around the players now I'll be playing football matches and I'll kind of be around the players at the football ground and things like this. And it's kind of like, okay, that's what you want to do, punish me from there. But I feel like keeping me away from the ground,

if I wasn't as strong as I was in my head, that would break some people. And I'd be talking about mental health and all these kind of things and what's that kind of doing to a player that's not allowed in the environment even though you can't play games but keeping away from the training ground

knowing football's their life and that's all they've done from such a young age how is that going to help them at all? Yeah, this is I completely agree with you i think i think the sanction itself is important because it does send a message and i agree with that but the bit that i just struggle with is that can't train at the club and we know as you you point out there like mental health

keeping active is such an important thing especially if you've been playing football since you're a kid and it's your purpose it's what you know um so psychologically and physically there's a a real strong case to keep your keep you active and i've seen a lot of people have their say on this a lot of people think you know you could have trained at the ground and then use that time to educate young players on on gambling that would have been useful but to keep you out of the club not allow you to train and to kind of push you out on your own

it seems doesn't feel like it's smart it doesn't it doesn't add up with what like the things they push forward

like like we say the whole football community is on big on mental health then the FA go and do this and like

push me away from like my the whole football environment like by all means it's not a place where i want people to feel sorry for me like that's the last thing that's the last thing i want and me as a person people that know me would know that's not one thing i'm trying to achieve but so that says what if somebody that's not as strong as me in their head happens to be going through this kind of situation and their punishment is

they're not allowed at the training ground? Like, that would break them. Like, right now, not being around the training ground. It does hurt me,

but I just know when I'm at the training ground, train harder, be ready for the game when I can play. But it's, yeah, like I said, it's not a nice feeling. And the whole purpose of not being allowed at the training ground is baffling to me. Do you have hard days still?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I feel like everybody has hard days. I mean, like through this process, has there been days where you're ups and you're downs and difficult days where you start, you have low moments because you are away from football, the press is on top of you? Yeah, I feel like I have hard hours, hard two hours kind of things. Like, in the mornings, I'd wake up and be like,

oh, can't be us today. But getting a shower, get active. When you're there working, it's kind of like out your head. As much as you don't want to do it, you'll see in the long run that that time I didn't want to get up, didn't want to put the work in,

it's paying off now. Whereas if I'm saying, oh, tomorrow, and then tomorrow comes, I'll do it the next day. So you're still training? Yeah, still keeping fit, still doing my own thing. Working with a personal trainer?

Yeah, a personal trainer, which is good. And it's not like a lenient one. It's one that pushes me. So I feel like I've not got it good, but I've got the best people around me to keep me fit and keep me going. And like I said, my family is key. My family is the one that's, they're the people that's helping me going as well. And especially my children.

You're a mummy's boy. Yep. Sometimes in these moments it's difficult for us, but it's harder to watch the impact it has on our family, right? Yeah, 100%. I feel like even when the whole thing was like, there was allegations and people going into my mum's work and just saying certain things. I'd be at a petrol station, they'd scream certain things

and I'd be with my family and my children and people would just be like shouting dumb things out. Just like, oh, you're putting it, like shouting things out. You're putting the tenor on today's game

or these kind of things or just silly immature things and how I am. I'm kind of hot-headed, but especially when family are involved and my children are around, I'm kind of hot-headed. But especially when family are involved and my children are around, it's kind of like... It's hard for me not to want to say something or do something or these kind of things.

It's like going through that period, it's hard. And people that you wouldn't normally speak to or my parents or family wouldn't normally speak to, they'd pop up and just be like, ah, what's up with Ivan? So it's when the bad things come along, now you want to talk and find out what's going on.

Whereas when I'm scoring goals or getting picked for England, you don't really want to say too much. But that's life and that's how people are. And you don't really want to say too much but that's life and that's how people are and we don't miss them we see them

we see the evil eyes so it's Has this process been has it illuminated things for you in certain areas

of your life certain people and some people that are there for you you know because I think even thinking about

the gaffer Thomas Frank he's come to your defence multiple times talking about how he disagrees with the way that it's been handled the sanctions and he thinks that you should be able to train with the team and um be out there educating young kids etc etc he disagrees with the the decision that the commission made not just himself uh gareth southgate as well. Gareth Southgate, yeah, he talked sport, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, I know. I spoke to him as well. How does that feel, Lin?

What does that mean to you? It feels good knowing I've got them behind me. Obviously, the England manager and my club manager backing me 100%. It feels good and it gives me a bit of extra strength to make sure when I'm back, I'm firing. And it gives me that bit of hunger. Not that I'm lacking it, but I feel like the extra boost

to feel like, okay, it's on when I'm back kind of thing. And the club standing by you in such a way, has that kind of cemented your loyalty a little bit to Brentford yeah I feel like like I said earlier

I want a manager in a club to like really want me and put their arm around me and I feel like throughout the whole situation

Brentford have done that like even even the players as well I spoke to loads of them they don't agree

with it but it is what it is and and your mum yeah she's like when I like going back to the tweet

when I put that tweet out she was the first person that rang me and messaged me and said listen you don't need to do nothing just don't do no more please I've been saying how she's been sick for

she feels sick in her stomach for an hour long throughout the whole situation. And putting that out there, she's just thinking it's going to damage me, damage her and damage the family and things like this. So I just thought, okay, let me just do the talk on my feet. And when I'm back, I get the family,

not smiling, but happy, happy again. And I'm sure they can't wait to see their son back on the pitch scoring goals. Does it mean the most to you to make her happy and to make her feel good?

All my family, yeah. I feel like, she always just texts me randomly and she's like, she always says, I don't want to bother you. Sometimes I just check on what, I'm sitting on WhatsApp to wait for you to come online to know you're okay and alive and well.

And that's just, that's how my mum is. Like, there'll be some times my mum, she knows and she does. She calls me random times. It'd be 12 at night or it'd be early doors just checking in i was fine love you so much this and that but yeah that's our favorite one checking to see if i'm online on whatsapp rather than pestering me in her eyes but so i think making them happy and making them smile is what

is what gives me the thrill to do well The Brentford fan base Yeah strong massive showing you a lot of love as well

Yeah everywhere I go I get love from the Brentford fans so that's good and that's key What's your you're going to get back to football

and I can feel you've got a certain fire inside you Yep that's good and that's key what's your you're going to get back to football and I can feel you've got a certain fire inside you yep I think I just not that I need to

prove anybody wrong but there's a lot of haters and doubters out there thinking he ain't going to be the same man when he comes back

actually they're right I'm going to be a different man I'm going to be the same man when he comes back. Actually, they're right. I'm going to be a different man. I'm going to be even better than that guy that scored them goals before. How do you know? Because I'm built different. My mentality is different. I'm not one of these,

oh, he could have been a great player hadn't he done this. I'm going to go beyond that. Like I said not a point to prove but a point to prove to myself How do you ensure that happens?

Like what is it that because I think about controllables what is it that you can control to make sure that you come back an even better player? Is it just training harder? Is it

what is it that you're It's training harder but in my head every time I step on a pitch I'm thinking in my head I'm going to score today I'm going to score I know I'm going to score

when the chance comes I'm going to score because in a game you you bounce get a chance that you should be scoring so in my head now I'm thinking

right when I do play and I do get that chance that I should be scoring it has to be a goal so it's going to be a goal what if it's not the next one to be a goal. So it's going to be a goal. What if it's not?

The next one will be a goal. What if it's not? It will be. That'll be two goals. You know, Brentford is a fantastic team. I think of all the teams in the Premier League, if we talk about admiration, I really admire Brighton at the moment,

but Brentford, I absolutely think are a brilliant, brilliant team. Really ton of admiration for them. There's a lot of people that are obviously linking you to other clubs and saying, Oh, is he going to join this Manchester United? All of that. How do you receive all of that? You know,

all these links to, cause everyone's looking for a striker. Strikers are like the hardest to find. Goal scorer is in the premier league. You got Harland, you got Kane. He's gone. Now,

now you're technically the second best striker that's currently in the league league you got harland you got kane he's gone now now you're technically the second best striker that's currently in the league on paper so you know these big clubs are going to come knocking they're going to say you know chelsea's got fucking unlimited money over here united we need a striker how do you receive all of that i mean like from young and like i said i don't let this all affect me obviously you hear it going on in the background, but my job is to keep training well when I get the chance in the games

to keep scoring and doing well. But I think everybody wants to play at the top of the tree and not that Brentford aren't there. But I feel like playing for a big club, fighting for trophies and these kind of things, everybody wants to do. And if the chance was to come along, I think I'd be silly

not to look more into it. But I feel like, yeah. And the manager knows that I want to be playing at the highest level possible. And whenever that time comes, then so be it. But I can't think my time at brentford's been been good it's probably one of the best times in my career and that's a special club like

they've just got something they've got a culture there which is super special so you know that culture you describe will get the best out of you as a player for sure so it's like great talent great culture sure. So it's like, great talent, great culture equals great results. It's like one plus one equals three. Yeah,

no. Yeah, I like the next club I go to if I was to move, it would be like the right club. When you say the right club, you're not talking about

Liverpool, are you? I heard you're a Liverpool fan. Yeah, a Liverpool fan, a Liverpool fan. You've been a Liverpool fan your whole life? Yeah, I've been a Liverpool fan yeah a Liverpool fan a Liverpool fan I feel you've been a Liverpool fan your whole life

yeah I've been a Liverpool fan my whole life but from young I've liked I've liked Arsenal I like watching Arsenal from how they play

and the kind of how passionate fans are but yeah Liverpool fan Liverpool boy at heart

so Liverpool at heart love how Arsenal play, love their style. Yeah. Anything about Manchester United, Ivan? I liked, I liked Berbatov when he was there. Okay.

I liked watching United a lot when Berbatov was there, so. Okay. But we do actually need a striker, so I've actually got a contract here that Eric and Richard Arnold have given me, so. Imagine.

Imagine. Now, well, listen, I hope um i i just want to see you back playing again because i think uh i think it's a it's a gift to the premier league your talent and also when i look at your story you didn't have a straight line that a lot of people have in football you went up down up down up down up down and you persevered because the talent is you can't argue with it you can't argue with the talent and so this whole gambling section of your life um it's a bit of a blip in there it's a hurdle you've overcome and you've taken taken your your punishment um you move on from that you admit responsibility yeah yeah um and so now it becomes again about the football yeah like you said

the journey's been it's been wild it's been crazy and if if I was to read a book on myself I'd say this guy's

done a lot and been through a lot and he's still fighting and he's still climbing to the top of the tree like how's he managed all that

with everything that's going on what's the goal you know if I if we if we have this conversation again at the end of your career and we sit down here and we go man

and you go damn that was a successful career Steve what happened I want to be playing for England and scoring goals I don't want to just be

oh he played for England a couple of times I want to be the main man wherever I go. And for England, I know they've got Harry Kane there. He's probably one of the best strikers in the world, if not the best. So, and that's what I'm up against. So I need to get to that level. So it just takes working hard and keep fighting. You've got the Euros around the corner as well. Yeah, and that's another place I want to get to, which I do believe that in my head I'm ready to get to.

And at club level, what are your ambitions there in football? Win trophies, win some silverware. I feel like, I feel like I want to play for the highest level possible. Play for a club that's I'm loved at, not just one of

but I feel like like with all my moves I've not just gone to a club for whatever or money or whatever I've gone it's been the right step

for me and I've achieved something every year every year I've just got better and better You want to win the Premier League

one day? That's the aim that's the aim I want to win the World Cup also I want to win trophies that's like

wow and being from where I'm from Northampton not many people can achieve them

things or be like yeah he's been at the World Cup, he's won the World Cup. And even then, my mum still lives in the same house. Really? Yeah, she doesn't want to move. She likes being there.

People will one day be like, yeah, Ivan's mum lives there. Or they do that now, but it'd be more of an achievement when I've won something like that. I'm like, yeah, Ivan's mum's there. Ivan rather do that now but it'd be more of achievement when I've won something like that and be like yeah Ivan's mum's there Ivan comes there all the time

I think that's kind of kind of how we are how I am and you can see like my mum she doesn't want to move into some

big house she feels safe and comfy at the house where she's at and that shows that I have no choice but to be grounded

and you've got three kids as well yeah three little boys do you think about them do you think about what the legacy you want to leave

that they're going to grow up and learn about does that cross your mind a lot yeah yeah it does I want to leave a legacy that they don't have no pressure

on their shoulders to walk into I just want to whether there is a football don't have no pressure on their shoulders to walk into. I just want to, whether there is a football or whatever industry they look to go into, which obviously I would want to say it's football. But whatever they do, I want them to be successful and be strong like my children. I feel like I'd want them, I do want them to have the same upbringing bringing i had like i wouldn't put them to that private school and all these things because i don't want to just give them everything i want them to have to work for some of the things

what advice would you give them about how to how to navigate say they uh they do go into football all three of them and they say they come to you one day they say dad listen just got a call from the biggest club in the world Manchester United and I'm gonna accept it and go to

Manchester United playing with Eric I need some advice dad I'm on my way tomorrow what advice can you give me

dad have the mentality as you're the best player on the pitch you might not be but having that

mentality will help you play better and just have the hunger. If you haven't got the hunger or the drive, you'll step behind already. I'd say like,

also, attitude is key because that'll get you a long way. Not just in football or work in life you know when you did this this tweet famous tweet i'll speak soon with no filter i understand that came from a place of anger like a bit defensive whatever mood settles your mom texts you you're like okay maybe this is not gonna help the situation there was a lot you wanted to say right you wanted to talk specifically about the allegations you've decided now from what you're saying that it's not worth it

for you to like go in and dispute things and say this that and the other is not true but was there anything that you do want to say to like the football community or just to the world generally as a message when you tweeted that like outside of like the stuff where we're like a bit bitter and hurt because of everything that's going on and people are attacking you whatever is there anything else you wanted to say? Because I just want to give you a chance just to... Not really. Like you said, most of it comes from anger

and it's kind of like, hey, what is against me kind of thing. But with that, it's kind of like, I was more worried on people like thinking how I am, how I am as a person. like what they read and what they hear rather than how i actually am but the the people around me friends family the only people i should be worried about they know how i am why do i need to explain to bob down the road how i actually am

i'm probably never gonna to see him again. So it doesn't matter that. Why am I explaining that? Why am I going out there to give it like a back and forth? Like, I don't need to do that. And it doesn't benefit me. It just benefits him in trying to get more of a reaction from me. So like you said, it definitely was out of our anger anger kind of moment it's kind of like all right let me say this then let me say that not knowing

the knock-on effect it could could have so it's not i don't need to try and prove nobody wrong, prove nobody right. It's just focus on myself, family, and do what I do best, which is playing well and scoring goals. Speaking with your feet.

Correct. I did want to talk to you about one last thing. You did a tweet as well about a DM someone sent you. Yeah. Someone had DM'd you calling you a

black C word. and you posted the tweet um subsequently you stopped taking the knee during at the start of premier league games and such racism in football do you do you still receive racial abuse um still today yeah you do if I was to post everything I've received that's been racist I'd have easily around 100 messages easily just reel off

there there there has that increased since the sanctions were made against you from the commission

no because I feel like most of it's just betting rubbish that I get like people are, because I feel like most of it's just betting rubbish that I get like people are saying but I feel like most of it's from

playing a game and someone bet on you or you haven't scored and then they come on come for you for like these kind of things or

the fantasy league yeah, football league like you don't get enough points and they'll come at you like this or you'll score to lose that now come at you like this or you're a scorer loser

just things like this why did you stop taking the knee because I feel like it's it's a token gesture it's not really it's lost its purpose

and I'm like you can see like before games certain people like run off with the knee forgot about that like

the purpose isn't there no more. I don't think that's doing nothing in the game to help stop these kind of things from happening. More needs to be done for sure, for sure. 100%. All over the world, not just in the UK, but we obviously saw what happened to Vinicius Jr. as well in the La Liga.

And it does feel like if there was harsher action taken then a lot of this stuff wouldn't be happening even from the platforms and also from the police

you know I think yeah most most well some of them are from abroad and it's kind of like if it's not in the UK

they can't do nothing about it and I'm like okay so what you just keep sending from wherever but yeah you can't really do nothing it's not it's not okay so it's fine then basically you're saying it's fine yeah so what do you do but yeah I feel like it's lost its purpose personally anyway and I feel like it's kind of like puppets that you put at the top we're kind of like let's try this well let's do this keep

people quiet for a bit just do that and we're trying it's not trying you're counting down the days now yeah i literally i it's like really Christmas yeah I count the days count down the days or two I can train and be around the boys because like being in

football prison at the moment when I'm around the boys I think it won't get easier well it'll get a little bit easier but not the same as like

you train a whole week hard at the end of the week it's no like end goal or reward you're not playing a match and then is it January you can play

yeah January the 17th you can train again I can play matches oh you can play matches yeah 17th for September I can I can train so

oh September you can train and then September I can train yeah okay and then December I can be in a club around the boys okay so not long yeah not long

less than a month yeah it feels like ages and then you can play in January that's going to be a very big game a lot of people are going to be

watching that yeah do you feel pressure no I thrive off pressure when it's like surely he can't do that

he's not going to be able to do it and that's what like the pressure was like we spoke about after the playoff final and we got the penalty after the game

everyone's like you must have been scared like if you missed you probably could have like you probably could have lost massive I was thinking no I couldn't wait

like I knew for a fact I was thinking, no, I can't wait. Like, I knew for a fact I was scoring that penalty. 100%. Because it was the pressure and, like, the reward after it gives you a bigger chance to jump into Premier League and more money for the family, so... Are you trying to prove people right or trying to prove people wrong

what matters more to you proving people wrong so I can have a little dig on yeah I like that I like when I see certain

certain tweets and when I do something I come back to it and just like have a little comment and dig at the person and there's just lots of words

that's like you're right you win right you win you been taking names throughout this process just like this pundit said this this person

I mean there's loads of pundits that say loads of things it's all opinions but when I come back to school I'm sure they'll go back into the bush

and backpedal on what they say we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to leave it for so they wrote a question for you here in this diary the question been left for you is when have you most had to face your fears Probably the ban.

Because I think loads of things go through your head. It's like, like I said, from having football at such a young age, not knowing if there's loads of things that go through your head. Like what? How you're going to cope with things. At the time, I was kind of like, not wary. I feel like I'm a confident person,

but going out in certain places, the topic is going to be about the whole scandal that's going on. People are going to talk about it, but with me, it's like, do they want to talk about it? They're thinking, do I want to talk about it? I'm not scared in a way, but it's kind of like, it's an awkward kind of meeting kind of thing isn't it

it's like elephant in the room yeah yeah yeah and then it comes to the point where it's like they'll say something like ah I bet you can't do that and it's kind of like oh

that kind of thing but I'm like yeah what's done is done like you can talk about it don't feel like then they talk about it then it's cleared so I feel like not knowing what people are thinking about you not people not knowing what

people want to kind of talk to you not knowing if you're going to be fit when you come back or not knowing what you're going to do whilst you're off like loads of things go into your head and it's like it hasn't crossed your mind you might like lose your form or something that actually did yeah it did at the time but like

I know I can get myself in goal scoring positions so I don't feel like that would be such a big issue but it does cross your mind

like what if I don't score within the first five games six games you're gonna think the world's ending kind of thing but yeah I think't score within the first five games, six games, you're going to think the world's ending kind of thing.

But yeah, I think that was the fear of these kind of things, not knowing what's next kind of thing. And as the days have passed, it's got easier, right? It's got easier in ways, but it's got harder in like... Oh, okay. Easier as in like, soon I'm going to be around the boys and that's kind of like my head's fine now I'm at the club doing what I do best

and enjoy but then it's kind of like at the end of the week I can't play games whilst the game it's kind of like it's like torture watching it yeah it's torture

like I hate watching games when I should be on the pitch do you think you deserve the punishment you got um I mean if that's what

the rules are then so be it that's the punishment I should have got but looking on the other cases and the fact that

they were lower leagues it's kind of like, why did he get that and I got this? Is it because he's there and I'm here? But now I feel like, if this is a punishment for doing what I've done, then make that,

make sure the next person gets that. Make sure the next person gets that. Like, make it all fair and correct. That's not to make it all fair and correct but that's not the thing that's fair but it is what it is i can't see i can't change nothing now i can't there's no point me focuses on if it's fair or not because that doesn't help no situation yeah I think it's possible to take responsibility for your actions

100% I did that but also to think that it was unfair because they I think maybe rightly so they are

they are making making an example of you because those lower league players it would never send a message would it so with the big wages and the big status and the popularity

and all the upsides comes this other thing which is like bigger sanctions bigger publicity bigger it's more of a talking point

yeah more of a story and I'll tell you what you go out there and you start bagging goals yeah ain't nobody gonna be talking about anything else

that's another reason I wanna be scoring goals so to put things right and let people talk about my goal scoring rather than rubbish past

I think you're going to go back to Brentford and I think you're going to fucking tear it up because I sense a real deep drive in you that I've not seen in many people a real sense of like self belief and conviction even what you're saying about the penalties there like I played at soccer aid and they came over to me and

asked me if I wanted a penalty and I went to the back of the group I swerved that so hard this year I played this year I got injured before the game at Old Trafford but by playing in training and we had to do a penalty shootout Potts was the manager and um I just said to myself Steve step forward and take one and this was to decide who got which dressing room I took one I scored it and then the next day

I pulled my hamstring got a grade 3 tear but I was proud of myself for stepping up and doing it yeah that's the main thing I think if you have in your head

I'm gonna do this you have a better chance of thinking what is this there's no point thinking that like even with yeah back point thinking that like even with yeah back yourself

100% like even with strikers I've played with like especially strikers I play with now like because he's I'll say his name

Brian because he knows he's like my little brother I say to him like when he misses a chance he gets so angry with himself I say bro

it's fine you're not a robot you can miss chances when the next chance comes you'll score when he missed a chance, he gets so angry with himself. I said, bro, it's fine. You're not a robot. You can miss chances. When the next chance comes, you'll score. And he's got a lot better at that and he's been scoring. So I think just dwell on things. But you've got a big chance coming up, January.

Yes. And I hope you score. I will. I know I will. I know I'll do well. And like you said, this is just another hurdle in my bumpy road,

but it's all good. It could be worse. Ivan, thank you. Thank you for the time. Thank you for the inspiration you've given me. I feel like I understand you. I feel like I understand you.

And listen, we all make mistakes in life. I think it's really important. We've all made mistakes. I make so many mistakes. I feel like I understand you. And listen, we all make mistakes in life. I think it's really important. We've all made mistakes. I make so many mistakes. I think yours are obviously more publicly broadcast because of who you are and you're at the top of the game. You're the peak of your powers.

But I think it's important, as you've said, that you take responsibility for it. You move on and you let the football do the talking. And I think that's exactly what you have done. And that's what um i'm really excited to see from you going forward as i said because you're special you've got a very special talent you've got a very special mentality and a very special talent to match it and uh we can't let that go to waste so we need to it won't go to waste for sure some of the people around me

they won't allow it to go to waste Good Thank you so much for your time bro it means a lot to me that you came here and spoke to me and I'm a big fan and I really do hope you end up at Manchester United one day Thanks for having me thanks it's been good

it's been good to talk through things and maybe this can help the next person if there was to think twice on doing certain things or maybe to open up about certain things so yeah it's

probably it's probably easy it's good thanks for having me like i said Thank you.