The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Jack Maynard: The Untold Story: How Being Thrown Out The Jungle Changed My Life Forever

Episode Date: March 8, 2021

Jack Maynard is a British YouTuber who is best known for his parodies, vlogs and collaborations with other famous YouTubers including Joe Sugg, Oli White and Caspar Lee. Jack’s Youtube channel took off extremely quickly, amassing a following of 1.5m subscribers on his main channel since 2015. He is also the younger brother of Conor Maynard, a singer-songwriter and musician who shot to fame after being spotted on YouTube aged 15, and Anna Maynard who is a popular influencer, singer and YouTuber in her own right. At 23, he was the first YouTuber to appear on ITV’s 'I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here!' (2017). He found himself embroiled in a scandal when he was removed from the show after just three days over tweets he made in 2011. This left Jack facing public scrutiny, being part of a British cancel culture moment, events which would change him forever. After various struggles as a result of ‘I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here’ Jack returned to TV screens with an appearance on Channel 4’s 'Celebrity SAS: Who Dares Wins' in 2020 to help him overcome what he’d been struggling with for the past three years. Follow Jack: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jack_maynard Twitter - https://twitter.com/jack_maynard23 Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to amazon music who when they heard that we were expanding to the united states and i'd be recording a lot more over in the states they put a massive billboard in time square um for the show so thank you so much amazon music um thank you to our team and thank you to all

of you that listen to this show let's continue that's it i was like my career is over i had no confidence or no i was like, my career is over. I had like no confidence or no, I was like a shell of like my former self. You don't often get to hear about the real human implications of cancel culture. You don't get to hear how it feels for the recipient. You don't get to see how it plays out in the moment. My next guest, he can tell you. Jack Maynard was caught in the middle of a well known, well documented British council culture moment when something that he had said almost 10 years earlier resurfaced while he was at the peak of his powers, while he was fulfilling his dream, while he was in the middle of filming I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here a couple of years ago. And the events that

would unfold following that cancel culture moment would change him forever. PTSD, anxiety, depression, shame. He even remarked today that there was a high chance he wasn't going to make it to this podcast because some of those symptoms still remain. I guess the question is, how do you pick yourself up from something like that? How do those moments feel? What actually happens when you're told while you're in the middle of the jungle in Australia filming a show that the outside world has turned against you? These are the things you can only learn from hearing the truth from someone that's been through those situations. So without further ado, my name is Stephen Bartlett, and this is The Diver CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. so jack um i did a lot of research on you and your your background what you're into the work you do

and your sort of professional endeavors are quite eclectic that you know it's hard to pin down whether you consider yourself to be a youtuber now yeah or a dj yeah or something else so i wanted to despite all the research i wanted wanted to ask you, like, I'm not a fan of like labeling oneself, but how do you, how do you classify yourself? I still do describe myself as a YouTuber. Like to everyone I meet, I kind of say,

oh yeah, you know, I do YouTube and you still to this day get a look of like, what do you mean you do YouTube? That's your job. But I think like you said, there's kind of a collective of things that I do. And when I kind of break a collective of things I do and

when I kind of break it down to everything I do they yeah like kind of fully understand now like very recently as well people have only just started to understand like what it actually is in that YouTube and just social media itself can be obviously a job yeah, I still go for YouTube. That's my, you don't post as much as you used to on your main channel. No, mainly because literally the beginning of last year, I decided, right, I want to go kind of bigger productions,

a lot like a lot of the music videos I've done and things like that. And I just want to kind of get out there like other, I'm kind of really want to just get loads of like celebrities and like reality tv stars on my channel and do loads of fun things in places like you know all over the world with them and then obviously kind of covid came in because i was just at a point where i was so like honestly like sick to death of filming videos at home like in my flat you know i was honestly just beyond bored and i had so many other things i was doing as well you have i think you i think i saw four videos this year

on your channel not many is it no considering i was uploading once or twice a week yeah before but yeah like i said i really just kind of couldn't face doing those kind of videos and for me youtube's always been something that i enjoy so much and my best videos are honestly the videos i've kind of enjoyed making the most what's the like the you know people will look at youtubers especially especially young kids and they think oh god i'd love to be a youtuber i think i read a report that said um one of the especially in the the western world in the uk one of the jobs that people aspire to young kids aspire to the most gen z is to become a youtuber yeah but i'm sure and i know because i've spoken to a lot of youtubers that there's a lot of um adverse side effects of the job yeah definitely i think well the first thing

is people think it's obviously like people do think it's easy 100 you know you get to sit around making silly videos in their eyes i think if you ask you know 100 people probably 80 of them would probably say oh they just kind of sit around making like stupid videos they don't see a lot of the stuff kind of that goes into it but it's definitely not easy you know there's no guarantee that you're going to do well on it you have no idea if you do well on it how long that will last and all like you know there's all those kind of things and it's just a lot of pressure because it's not like a cool i know i'm gonna do these every week i'm gonna get paid like x amount this is gonna be my job this can be my career like

you're on a salary it's like no you could you know you could put all your time and effort into it and maybe like money into certain things you're trying to do and if it doesn't pay off it's definitely the algorithm changes yeah well things are changing on it constantly you've got a really like kind of try and the numbers drop yeah exactly it's anxious yeah you can have a month where you do really bad or you upload a certain video that you're really proud of and it does really bad and you're just like oh god why is that and then you kind of fall back to your safety now things that you know maybe we'll do well but you don't want to do those anymore and it's just like oh god why is that and then you kind of fall back to your safety now things that you know maybe will do well but you don't want to do those anymore and it's just like a yeah it's very hard and i think it does affect people in like many different ways some people kind of love

that and they love the challenge you want to keep on going which is amazing but yeah like i said there are people who want to do this one thing which can do incredibly well and then it switches and it suddenly doesn't do well anymore not through any fault of their own but just because Like I said, there are people who want to do this one thing, which can do incredibly well, and then it switches, and it suddenly doesn't do well anymore. Not through any fault of their own, but just because YouTube have kind of decided, yeah, we want to see more stuff like this. And they can push all that kind of content. And yeah, people get incredibly bad mental health from it.

And I think people are very vocal about that now as well, which is amazing. So it's really good. But I think, yeah, especially, obviously, all YouTubers are pretty much self-employed. about that now as well which is which is amazing so it's really good but i think yeah especially obviously all youtubers are pretty much like self-employed so if you are doing very well then one minute it drops and that's it i remember frankie kokoza said to me yeah do you know frankie yeah he's from brighton yeah frankie said to me one day i'm sure he won't mind me saying this that um obviously after all the fame he had a fairly young age x factor he did a couple of other shows and then the money dried up yeah and he was like well i can't go and work at fucking

tesco now because yeah i just like an ego still yeah the money but the ego is kind of still there in a way i see that with youtubers a lot i think i think they because they've they've been in the public spotlight and they've built fame yeah you know or notoriety in whatever way they then feel like they they can't go and have a normal life because fame your your family is fairly famous i'd say yeah relatively yeah yeah heard your your your grandparent your grandparent your granddad your dad were also singers yeah so my granddad i don't know like too much about it so i know my dad i'm pretty sure did like west end when he was younger kind of like a kid but he might be making that up very good give me up i have no evidence of this i used to be a football player but they did that and then yeah my granddad as well was like a kind of like stage singer things like that um so i think that's probably where my brother gets it from

that's for sure and i guess he's had like the most fame out of all of us um but again yeah he kind of started on he's the more you know traditional like famous like pop star whatever you want to call it but he kind of yeah the same as me started on youtube and he's kind of like back to that now as i was kind of gone full circle so he's kind of back on there and how was that when when he i've got two brothers I know people ask you a lot and I've seen them ask you a million times like oh are you jealous of your brother or like whatever but um how was that when he started to get a little bit more well known um and you're a younger brother yeah he's two years older than me so I've got two older brothers as well so I can relate okay I can't relate to them being famous yeah to be honest it was there like honestly was no

jealousy because i think when i was so young i mean i was literally still in school just finishing school like leaving school he was like kind of yeah relatively famous got signed all of this so he's doing like really well great money coming in like moved to london all of these things so it was just like so cool for me it was like so cool to just be around all of that stuff and just experience it all with him so it was kind of more again i said around all of that stuff and just experience it all with him and it was kind of more again i said not jealousy but i like saw i just saw that opportunity there i was like there must be something yeah i can do even if it's like working for my brother somehow

doing something god knows what it would have been but i i knew i could have kind of figured something out and just conveniently my brother like basically broke up with his girlfriend she moved out and he was like oh do you want to come and live in london with me i was like yes yes obviously i want to do that absolutely so i made a deal with my brother because he kind of knew he was like i was always umming and ahhing about starting youtube and he was like well let's make a deal this was the best deal i kind of like ever made in my life in a way because i'll let you live in london with me rent free but you have to like you know promise you'll make a and put out a youtube video once a week every week just like you say that to you

because i think he like it just needed he needed to like incentive from me that i am like actively like working and i'm at the same time i was still trying to find other work in london but it's like he wanted me to live with him like he did he did he kind of like needed me to live with him in a way but at the same time yeah he didn't want me just living there rent free sure living it up doing, yeah, it was like a pretty good deal. And very fortunately for me, I didn't really pinpoint why, but yeah, my YouTube like took off really, really fast. After about kind of two months of doing YouTube, I didn't really need to find a job anymore.

I was making like more than enough money to kind of carry on. And luckily, he was like really good friends with people like and well and then so was i at this point like casper lee joe sag all of these who were you know ogs huge at this time so we all just kind of started filming you know every video like all together as like a big group and then it just like yeah really like blew up from there so the golden days lucky yeah definitely definitely the golden days that yeah definitely definitely the golden days that's for sure right yeah it was everyone talks about those moments like alfred does the same and i know josh i've met him a few times and yeah it's fair to say it was so much easier then

like i could sit at home and film some weird game with my friends and get like three million views in like a week just off that one video so it was just like now if i did that it wouldn't yeah wouldn't do the same so this is when i got to the point where i was like right i want to do like something different from all the others i don't want to come up the next youtube idea i kind of want to break ground in terms of like tv and and youtube tv yeah your first experience on tv mainstream tv was that one of when you said yeah how did you feel you get the phone call um i didn't think it was gonna i honestly did not think i was gonna get on it whatsoever but i was like let's definitely go to that meeting you know the whole thing i've let

so they can see my face and they're like we'd love to just chat to you about something you go just call me in flight a meeting and i don't know what it was that day i remember leaving the meeting thinking either they're just like really nice and good at acting or that went like so well i just like kind of felt like i was on fire that day i kind of went in there like nothing to lose i was like i'm not gonna get it but this will be you know i was more thinking cool maybe next year then the next one then i like will get on if i carry on and do all this kind of stuff was it an audition it wasn't an audition it was just a meeting we met like the like the casting people i guess i know and i know a few of my friends had also met them i think like casper and stuff had also met them it was like two months i just had the meeting i never told anyone for some reason like again like i said because i just didn't think it was going to happen and then the boys oh yeah this i mean as well and i was like oh oh well you went there then so i was

like oh god i'm up against like these people i'm definitely i don't think i'm gonna get it then and oh yeah and we got the we got told like a couple of weeks ago that oh you know it's not gonna go any further thanks for coming in i was like oh i haven't got that call i didn't say i was thinking i was like i'm pretty sure that hasn't happened unless my manager hasn't told me or something and literally it's like the next day they called oh we really want to meet jack again and i think i met them i don't really remember the meaning of it this one was more just sort of like a kind of how it all goes if i do do it and literally like the next day they're like cool we want jack to do it can you do it i was like obviously obviously i can do it i was so scared though because i'm actually like terrified of bugs so i was so excited and i was like this is it could you

you couldn't tell people for a while right no i couldn't obviously i did but i was just like i think i was like so scared i was like how the hell has this happened but the one thing i will say i didn't is and this is like bad obviously i did when i knew i was doing it but i never actually really watched the show before obviously i completely knew what it was but i didn't realize how big the show was i didn't realize at that time it was arguably the biggest show in the country. Huge. Yeah, between like that, kind of strictly and things like that.

They were all like battling it out for number one. So yeah, I just kind of prepared myself for it all. Like I said, I was feeling great going into it. I was feeling like really good. How much notice did you get between knowing you were on the show? I think I actually knew for like a while. i must have known for like a couple of months i remember getting there and people are i found out literally like a couple of weeks ago really i was i knew for like ages like i said i guess they knew they were getting a youtuber on like probably at the end of the season before

they're like oh next year we need a youtuber or something so you fly to australia yeah i'd done all my stuff i was feeling good flew to australia and i was the first one to get there so i was there for a week like no phone and i was an idiot because when i said i was in the jungle people were telling me like oh do you not just bring another phone and like hide it and i was like obviously i was too scared to do that so i was like oh no and they did do that yeah everyone did well all the other guests had phones they just had another phone with them somewhere in their suitcase. So they were just like talking to their friends, I guess, whatever. No, I didn't know who else was there at the time,

but when I was in the camp. While they were in the jungle? No, no, no. Whilst they were in the lockdown-y kind of thing before you're shut in a hotel room for a week and you don't see anyone. Didn't have a phone. It was a boring time in my life.

And you're like jet lagged as well. But luckily the lady who was looking after me, yeah, she just, I could not leave my room without her being next to me, but she was really nice. Like we got along so well. So I was really happy with that.

And every morning at breakfast, she's like, oh, like, you know, another one's got here and everyone's got here. And she wouldn't tell me who it was, but she'd give me clues.

And then I was like, oh, it was just annoying me. I was like, i wonder how my social media is going again because that's just what my thing was like an everyday thing for me i post every day do all these things it was so weird not checking it i was like look let's make a deal i kind of deal with you there was no deal on my heart but you know will you do me a favor just don't have to don't see anything can you just go on my instagram and let me look at like what's been uploaded and let me just see if it's going well. And I think at the time I was averaging, like, 40 to, like, 60,000 likes.

So it was going, like, pretty well. And then she's like, yeah, but you can't look at the comments or anything. So you might be saying who's in there. I was like, deal. And I didn't actually look. But I looked at my photos and I was getting, like, 250,000 likes. And i was like deal and i didn't actually look but i looked at my photos and i was getting like 250 000 likes i was like what and that's when i realized how big the show was like that that moment i was like oh my god just from being announced yeah like it's just gone crazy and i was thinking you know maybe they're making a bit of a like it probably is

causing debate like oh this youtuber is he a celebrity is he not and i was like welcoming that because i was like let's get more people like talking about me gets my name out there more so that's when i was like oh my god this is massive i need to win this i need to i need to win this what was your strategy because i've always thought if i ever got into like a reality tv show like how do i like, how do I not be a prick? Like for me, it was on it. Like, to be honest,

at that point I had like, Oh, anxiety, no stresses. I was not scared at all. I wasn't even nervous. I like nerves never hit me. That was always one of my strengths I found.

So I was just, yeah, I was like confident, not so much confident I'm going to win, but I was just so confident that, you know, I know I can go in there and I was like confident, not so much confident I'm going to win, but I was just so confident that, you know, I know I can go in there and come across like fine. I know I won't go on there and be like a horrible person or whatever.

That's just not who I am. So yeah, I was confident. And when in there, first couple of days of filming with everyone, just felt like great, like so natural, I guess. i kind of knew what was going on a little bit because we got partnered up straight away and obviously the youngest i was the youngest person on there but i was the youngest guy and then toff was the youngest girl then we got partnered it was like the people at home voted who was together so i just kind of saw where that was like going it was like cool so they're trying to do that kind of story so you went for it so i think

to be honest i think she's like a very smart girl i didn't ever play a character it was like play the most entertaining version of yourself the whole time i'm just like yeah kind of giving the people what they want and i knew she was doing the same as well like she read into the situation and i remember thinking i was like oh it's gonna be it sounds really mean for the other people on there but i was like i have like a feeling maybe it's gonna be between like me and her or i think we'll both do like really well if we keep as we're going it's just like little things like you realize we were just maybe saying the most like kind of jokes between everyone and like we were maybe the most like just having the most like like fun with it a lot of people quite stressed and stuff

but we're having like a lot of fun um and then yeah obviously it took like a massive turn i don't know what you're talking about if you don't that's fine you won congratulations no one knows so what happened next I mean I don't think I'm allowed to get too into in terms of like what happened on set but it's like in terms of I won't tell anyone I was there in the morning

like super early I mean it must have been like 6am something like that 5-6am and there's like super early i mean it must have been like 6 a.m something like 5 6 a.m and there's like a rule like two people always need to be in the camp at one point and they were calling the you know the voices of god the person on the microphone was like calling people to go and do something like oh you need to go down there and i realized i was on my own and i was like swear this isn't allowed then i was like oh well maybe you know we've been in here a few days now they're like loosening up and whatever you know we're all adults here i'm sure i'll be fine type thing and it's like oh jack can you come to like

the medical hut i was like oh okay and i had two things on my mind first being i'd like a tick the day before like and so i was like oh maybe they're just checking in on that or this is where it's like really depressing i was like oh here we go because they always in the show kind of pull someone to the side they have like kind of like a secret mission type thing oh yeah they do in the show there's always someone who has to do something about anyone else knowing is this that or maybe it's that so i was like going there like really like quite excited intrigued and then i went in there just like the producers and stuff and i was like this doesn't look very good i was like what i was taken out with like no explanation whatsoever i had no idea you weren't given an explanation i was not told for like four hours i got taken out and the hotel's like four hours away

and pretty much until i got my phone which is the hotel which was that far away i didn't know anything they just said it was like oh something online i was like wow that really i was that narrows it down like my whole life's online it says something something something online so i'm just thinking like absolute like worst case scenarios of what could like possibly happen to a young guy on tv because i was thinking all kinds of things like it's weird like I was thinking all kinds of things. Like, it's weird. Like, you're sitting there thinking of things I know I've never done in my life, but I'm like, oh, God.

Someone could have said something wrong. Yeah, someone said something or made something up, or I don't know. You're just thinking the worst, and you're panicking. And then, I mean, it was like the weirdest. You get back to your phone. Yeah, I get back to the hotel room finally, and I get my phone and my phone so crazy and then well i think like the next day i realized they'd actually like announced me being

taken out before they took me out so like i mean yeah everyone knew why i'd left but i didn't so i was seeing things on my phone i was like what the hell just like everyone was just like oh you know i hope you're okay like i can't believe this and all that and i'm like oh my god i don't know what to do i don't want to look at it i'm like kind of standing my eyes closed like my phone's man right i don't know what to do but two calls i need to make here but a call from my brother and then like a thousand from my manager so i call my manager and it's like my manager lawyers the ceo of my manager everyone there's everyone of any importance in my life is on that call and yeah just find out you know this is something that's been going on for like nearly a week in the papers and stuff of like tweets and everything like this and obviously i'm in there i don't have a phone so i have no

control i can't say anything how are you feeling then i was like crying i was like oh i was like all over the place i was i was just so frustrated that's what it was i was like so frustrated and like angry why i don't know i just felt this this could have all they were sitting on the they were sitting on this for a while these tweets and stuff I just didn't know it because it was deleted long before I went on this show like a year before I even went on this show

they didn't exist anymore because they were awful, they were stupid so I kind of got rid of them when I was kind of coming up on youtube as i was the first thing my management made me do they're like cool let's go through everything and delete anything you've said that is just idiotic and i was like we should definitely definitely do that so i knew i'd had twitter since i was like 15 14 or something because

it didn't have to get to the point where i was taken out to then have to address it all I wish I could have before I even went on or after or or just after kind of let yeah like stuck with it and kind of adds more drama to it let the yeah it just made it look made it look worse they said oh Jack wanted to leave and address it and I do feel like I did need to address it as soon as possible don't get me wrong but I mean yeah I didn't say yeah I should I should leave here and and and address these things so just frustrating and yeah so I spoke to my management we kind of went over everything and like what happens now and it's like do you want us to come Australia no I was I just want to come home then because I was like although I knew want to come home then. Because I was like, although I knew I'd done, like, bad things, how it was all handled, I felt like I had, like, hatred at that point.

At that moment in time, anyway, for the people that were involved, like, in the show that were, like, near me. Like I said, I was so frustrated. So I was like, I don't want to be here. No way. I want to come home then. If this is it and this is done, then I'm coming home. What is the point of me being here? Like, yeah, might want to come home then. If this is it and this is done, then I'm coming home. What is the point of me being here?

Like, yeah, might as well come home. So, that was arranged. I was actually flying like three hours or something. So, I just like legged it. So, yeah, poor me. Yeah, again, I hadn't like looked at my phone. I hadn't like looked at anything. I hadn't like opened WhatsApp, Twitter, Instagram, like nothing.

I still don't really know the extent of what's happened. And then I called my brother. He was like speechless as well. But again, like he'd kind of been, I say this has been going on for a week. So he's been on the phone to my management and stuff for like, you know, days and days and days going through all of this kind of trying to help.

I don't know really what they were asking him or how we could kind of help, but they were like, you know days and days and days going through all of this kind of trying to help i don't know i don't know really what they were asking him or how we could kind of help but they were like you know you know i'm reaching out to you don't say anything don't comment on anything don't do any of these things and he was like trying to help in whatever way he could did you worry that it might have an impact on him yeah when i spoke to him that was kind of one of my first thoughts to be honest i felt like i just like fucked it for everyone like i said at this point i didn't really know and then we were talking about it he felt like you know this is my time to shine and all of this it could have been like life

changing if i'd have like god let's say i went on like one could have been yeah life changing it was but not not in the right way and then he was like have you looked online or anything and I was like no I don't want to I was like scared and he was like oh I think you should like have a look I was like why he's like look just hang up have a look online and stuff go on Twitter so I did when I went online on Twitter to be honest like all I saw was like support for me because it was a thing of everyone knew what I said was very stupid very naive me like really bad but you know people also knew what I was going to say people have kind of been there themselves people understood that okay yeah he was like a kid at the time i was actually like still in school when these things that happened it was before i had any kind of like following i didn't want

you know the jack of today to be you know known as the jack of like when i was 15 i fully understand this is like one of the conversations i had with my mom i like except when i was like 15 16 or whatever i wasn't a very nice like kid i was pretty like bad i was like i had kind of a naughty kid i guess so people like understood that you're an idiot but at the same time we feel kind of like sorry that this has come back to like bite me on the ass you know like seven years later or something in that moment when you you go online and you see everybody like the world you know it must feel like the world is ending to some degree yeah what are your thoughts about your future in that moment and like oh i thought that was it i was like that that's it i was like

my career is over but i also wasn't thinking oh what am i gonna do i was just like it's over don't care about what i'm gonna do now but like i reckon's it. But then also when I saw online and like the amount of support, I mean, it was like ridiculous. It's like trending number one on like Twitter and all of these things. It was just like huge in the amount of celebrities that were like in my corner or whatever you want to say. It was like very overwhelming. The weirdest one I saw was like Katie Hopkins.

I was like, she was like, oh, don't worry, Jack, you're an angel compared to me. Cause obviously she was on the show and like nothing else. I was like, that's not the person.

I don't want, I don't want to do this. Like Donald Trump and Katie Hopkins. Everyone was just very divided. I think it was a, to sum it up, you know, I apologize at loads of times on tv and my youtube channel in like

newspapers and everything what's the silver lining oh my god i like to think i probably actually won't go anything won't go through anything as bad as that ever again like the toll it kind of took on me like my mental health and everything but that didn't kind of come until like a year after because I think like I said although I was very upset and everything I kind of brushed it all under the rug type thing and just put on like a happy face ah you know whatever kind of time to go on with it but me it was like I've definitely learned a lot from this like I know now what is and like absolutely isn't like acceptable and how to like deal with those things and like move forward and just how to face horrendous situations like that and like i said hold my hand up and fully take like the blame obviously but it was just like

did you have ptsd i think i read that somewhere yeah so it was like um so did you have PTSD? I think I read that somewhere. Yeah. So it was like, um, so did you have PTSD? I think I read that somewhere. Yeah. So it was like, um, so like I said, I wasn't facing it for ages.

And then like a year later or 18 months later, yeah, I just started feeling like awful, like really anxious, like all the the time and like just super like depressed but at the time i didn't know it was that i just felt really weird i was like what the hell is wrong with me didn't even like go for like dinner with my friends about like wanting to like desperately leave and i'm feeling like so uncomfortable like i could like my safe place was like at my home i just wanted to be at home became like a bit of an introvert, because I didn't want to do anything,

it massively affected my work, in terms of I just couldn't face going to any kind of like meetings, or anything, doing any kind of work, it would like for me to do that, I'd literally have to like, it was like going through hell, just to do that, just to go to like a meeting, or something, I had no idea what it was, and I was very quiet about it, I never like just to go to like a meeting or something i had no idea what it was and i was very quiet about it i never like spoke to anyone which was obviously making it worse and then how did it feel though in terms of it was like it felt like a lack of motivation yeah it was just like i didn't want to do anything i didn't want to have to face doing those things i basically now looking back on it had like a complete loss of confidence I kind of felt like oh I wasn't good enough to do any of these things I was like a shell of like my former self like I said before I had like nothing I was so excited to do that show I was kind of going in there to

win it and everything whereas now at that point if they asked me oh my god even if I hadn't been on it type thing before but I still felt the same if they asked me I'd have probably had to be like I don't think I can do it because I don't think I'd have had it in me to kind of push through. And then, yeah, eventually my friends kind of clocked on. Like, okay, something's really wrong. And I think they kind of knew it was my brother's been through it before, like really badly before me. It was like him and a few others and things kind of like, yeah, like, ooh.

Sat me down. And yeah, it's kind of like opened up to everyone what did they notice i was just like not myself like i said i was like one of them one of the main ones i remember is my friend josh's birthday and i had this thing of like because i knew i would always want to like not go and leave these like events or dinners or whatever I'd go early it's like 20 minutes early so I kind of get there they sit at the table and just like calm down type thing is essentially like I was having like an anxiety attack pretty much like once I got there when I was on the way so I'd get there and I kind of get past it and then like get on with my night type thing and

hopefully feel a bit better but most of the time i'd get there and i'd leave before and i'd just text them some weird excuse oh i've got to do this oh this has come up sorry i've got to go home or i'd pretend like i never went i've been oh yeah no i'm just not feeling great not going to come so they were just like what the hell is going on like and jack blue jungle yeah oh no like no way i was like the life of the party in a way kind of thing i was up for doing everything and anything you could like couldn't stop me type thing but take me back to the intervention you said your friends had like messaged you and sat you down your brother had messaged you yeah yeah so i you know kind of explained it to all of

them again i still kept it like pretty close friends and my manager because she needed to understand i didn't want to have to keep lying basically i don't know i think because she's been in the industry i think she probably knew what it was as well it's very common and this is what i realized when i spoke to my friends because they were just like basically yeah like you know it's very like normal everyone like has it because at the time i said i knew my brother had it before what's it just like anxiety like depression like everything but i didn't yeah i just didn't want to accept those things i didn't understand i didn't hadn't really done any research i didn't really understand when i spoke to my friends

and then yeah understood what it was and although everyone's is very different from different things and and it's caused by different things like different triggers or whatever it's also like very much the same people deal with it in different ways of course but it is it's like the same like feeling and like overwhelming feeling and stuff so when they kind of explain that you know they've all had it and my brother was like really good with it because i said he he'd had that anxiety like really bad and he probably still like he still does i still do i don't you don't it doesn't just disappear but you learn to to deal with it and yeah just having that conversation it's like cliche as it sounds just talking to people about it made me feel so much better like

unexplainably better so uh and then yeah and then there was just like kind of a gap between of like nothing just kind of same old probably doing a bit more work but at the same time still wasn't feeling great but i think it kind of like calmed down a bit and i'd figured out little ways to deal with it and then yeah sas tell me about that wanted me that was like which channel is that uh channel four channel four call you and they say jack want jack to do you're up sas i hadn't done any tv since when you find out how do you feel i was like terrified but i think I would have anyway because like SAS is a it's crazy

it's like the craziest show I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I'd probably say it's the hardest show there is it should be as well it is the hardest show

there is to do so I was just I remember thinking why do I always get these really hard shows why can't I just go on like Celeb Juice or something

it's like I'm gonna sit there for the evening but I was like okay like why do I always get these like really hard shows why can't I just go on like Celeb Juice or something like that so I can just sit there for the evening but I was like okay what the hell am I going to do here because I just know in the back of my head I'm saying yes to all these things I'm just like do you want to do it I'm like yes why not and you know they explained it

to me as you know they were pretty black and white about it like this one this will be his big TV comeback and all of this and i knew that was going to be um a massive part of my storyline i was like oh god i know i'm going to say yes to do this and i'm going to want to not do it i don't want to do it but you can't turn down something like this you can't turn down a show that big so obviously i've said yes and i'm going through with it and then yeah it kind of gets to the point where like my anxiety and everything and like my panic is like i mean the worst it's ever been i didn't even want to leave my house and just yeah straight away my manager's like i think it's time to see a therapist where was this in terms of the run-up to the show um where it got the worst it's ever been i'd say like two months

before the show started yes filmed in like november okay it was like yeah probably like september-ish it was like so bad so i was like yeah i think you're right i probably should i've never been to the therapist before so i was anxious about that in itself, which was really weird, like, speaking tone and feeling, like, you want to, like, feel like you're gonna want, you want to, like, die in this room, because it's just so, yeah, you don't, I don't even know, like, what I was thinking at the time, to be honest with you, but it was just horrible, so, yeah, seeing a therapist like three, four times a week, doing all this,

just trying to like figure it out before on the show. And then she's just like, yeah, it sounds like you've got like PTSD basically. And I was like, what? I was like,

when I hear that, I just think of like the army. Pretty much I was like, I think that's like quite dramatic. I was like, I don't even feel like qualified to be labeled or something like that because I'm not getting, like, shot at somewhere. Like, how? And she just, yeah, like, explained it to me.

And one of my, like, worst things was basically it made me feel, like, physically ill. Like, I always feel like I'd want to leave because it made me feel like I was going like throw up or something like there and then i felt like i was like holding it but it was like yeah really really bad like can't we you can't imagine like how bad it was and then the best thing that she did was she wrote this book it was called the idiot brain and it explains how your body reacts to the feeling of like and like depression and like, you know, the whole fight or flight type thing. And it basically just completely broke it down as to why I feel everything I do whilst it's happening.

And that like, again, like I said, when I spoke to my friends, it made me feel like, Oh, just that one thing. Yeah.

It's like the biggest way. And that was, it was the same kind of thing. I was like, now I understand why these things are happening. And it's not like, what was the key thing you took from that book in terms of just like a basic principle it was honestly this like the science behind it yeah it explained like the signals like your brain sending out to like your stomach and stuff because it's like it's a you're in a sense of panic it's like imagine you walk across and you're about to

get hit by a car and you had loads of adrenaline type thing after just like that there's a you're in a sense of panic it's like imagine you walk across and you're about to get hit by a car and you had loads of adrenaline type thing after just like that there's a massive sense of panic and your body wants to like get out of something get away from a situation like they use examples from like the caveman times it's like your body is like sensing danger that there is none this is gonna whole problem with it like nothing's really happening you're just scared of nothing like you know usually you do kind of get through it and you're it's like fine but it's like memories relating it to trauma situations right yeah so it's just like uh yeah pretty much just like that's why it was like a ptsd thing for me because i felt in a similar situation as when like the whole i'm a celeb thing happened really like i said at the time i didn't even know

if it was that but when she kind of broke it down to me when do you think it all started and it just made so much sense for it to be because of that like it was all around work and like certain situations that all similar to to then because i'd kind of go to you know say an event i just yeah you'd feel like i'm known as the kid you got kicked off i'm a slave anywhere i go that that would always you know people would always be kind of talking about it i honestly before then i probably would not have been able to do this and like there's a high chance i'd have like cancelled last minute like last minute because i'd be like oh i can do it i can do it and then it would come to the time and i'd be like no way i can't even like get in the car and and drive here but it was just yeah and it

would explain why yeah your body is literally feeling that way and it's just because it was like oh it makes you feel incredibly nauseous stuff because your body is like scared and sent in danger and things you need to escape a situation so it like your body like the last thing your body's worried about is like digesting something so i always had this thing i was like i never wanted to eat when i was anxious because you're in flight yeah i would not be thinking about eating i wouldn't even get hungry though yeah but i would just not eat anything like the whole day i had lost like loads of weight from it as well one of the most important quotes i i read in the book lost connections was um as a society we used to think that like mental health disorders like ptsd and anxiety depression were a consequence of like something broken in you yeah but in fact

everything you've described goes back 10 000 years to the like savannah and africa are lines running at me yeah i'm like i need my body to get ready for me to yeah exactly yeah and so there's there's nothing the human body is working perfectly fine in fact the most more important question is like what's happened to you and like yeah and that's and that's where that's where my perspective on mental health disorders shifted because i didn't believe that um when i looked at the data and there's this huge rise in mental health disorders yeah and i know that like human beings aren't evolving anymore we're not changing anymore so, okay, if there's a rise in the data, what has changed to cause that? And then you think, okay, well,

the only thing that's really fundamentally changed is the world we live in. You start looking at the world we live in and you say, how has that changed? You say, well, you know, 15 years ago, the average American would say they had three people they could turn to in a time of crisis.

They now say they have zero. We're now living in these white walls alone, tapping screens we're not speaking to friends and all of these factors which are conducive with like positive mental health have now been slowly torn away i mean the lockdown is a great example of like extreme and then there was a study which i talk about in my book where if you get an animal and you put it in a cage and you take away um any uh companionship you take away all other animals of its type, and you take away the ability for it to exercise, and you take away anything that might give it stimulation,

and then you give it the choice of drinking heroin water or normal water, they all become drug addicts. And if you reintroduce like a running wheel and another rat for it to be with, it doesn't become a drug addict. It doesn't choose the heroin water. And so what you're describing is like the same as all the guests that have sat here with me is there's there's this key moment which has caused trauma and that's um and i think that's really empowering for people to know that yeah you know it's not it's something

that's happened right and you can address it from that perspective as opposed to just throwing drugs at it thinking that something's broken yeah but tell me about the therapy process because i've not had therapy before but i've always i've always been intrigued by at my company we had a therapist for all of our team members yeah and i would definitely have therapy i think i probably should but what how was that process and did it help um it was like it was strange it made it did make me feel a lot better. Like I said, for me, I think this is just who I am. I think some people love talking about things and just getting it off their chest and it helps them that way. For me, it was just the understanding. Once I understood it and then like I said, I figured out ways to kind of deal with it as well.

I don't think it ever goes away if you just figure out ways to to deal with it i think if i'd got an uber here i'd have probably actually been like more nervous i don't think i wouldn't have like cancelled but i'm not on that level but i would have still probably been a bit more like okay kind of i don't know i think so you're not doing it i for me i love being like distracted so i'd always like like tiktok for instance is like the perfect app for that i always found because it like, it's really quick and it's like funny. And like, it always like kind of, it was always just really funny. Kind of put me in a good mood. It's like really quick.

So if I was in an Uber, I try and do something like that. Watch some like YouTube videos and just keep my mind off kind of what I'm going to do. And Jack before wouldn't, didn't have that. Oh yeah, no way. I'd have been, honestly, when my brother would like talk about his anxieties and like when he'd feel weird or wouldn't want to come do anything, I'd like be like, what are you talking about? Like, it was literally like, just get over it. Come on, you'll be fine. That was like the classic thing. Oh, come on, you'll be fine. What could possibly go wrong?

In his mind, he's like listing all the things that go wrong. Just you think of the worst case scenario pretty much. So, yeah, once I kind of understood it a lot more and had my reasons, like which helped me kind of get over it a little bit, I then did kind of stop seeing her. This was all very close to like the show. I kind of stopped once the show started, for instance. And I haven't been back since because I think I will happily say that doing SAS saved me somehow.

It gave me a new lease of life. Like I said, I'm not saying it's gone away by any means but i just a thing there thinking i mean if i can do this and this being at like six o'clock in the morning jumping out of a helicopter backwards into literally like freezing cold water in the middle of winter in scotland i can definitely go and do a podcast or something like that and that's kind of like what I like lived by. And I still think of it sometimes. I'm like, Oh my God,

Jack, come on. When I was like at my, and at that point I was honestly at my absolute worst. Like the night before I got there, I got to Scotland and like the morning of, I tried to like pull out. So they took,

again, when we got there, they took our phones off because we, you know, just can't, we see everyone who's on the show so we can't text people

oh guess who's in the show and then they like leak the stories or whatever it doesn't go out until May but I was like I kind of need I can quit yeah

I need my phone so I can call my manager and tell her I'm not doing it like that's literally what it was and the best thing that happened that they took my phone otherwise I would have

called out I guarantee it but they had like therapists on the show otherwise I would have called out I guarantee it but um they had like therapists on the show that I would like I'd spoken to quite a bit before and I was very open with them and they kind of knew I mean everyone

going on they definitely had their struggles and they had their their battles and I'm not saying mine's worse than than anyone's but I was definitely like very like vocal about mine and was not saying mine's worse than than anyone's but I was definitely like very like vocal about mine and was said not saying it's worse than anyone else's but I was like this is the worst it's ever been for me like this is the worst I've ever been so prepare yourselves for me to be like a nightmare and yeah like I said I did not I like people say like I didn't

get a second to sleep the night before i literally didn't i was just sat there like staring at the ceiling like freaking freaking out and i was just like what the hell am i gonna do and i knew we had to leave at like nine and i knocked my door that oh jack like you ready i was not ready by the means i was like i literally said i was like i felt like crying i was like so emotional i was all over the place it was like really i'd never been like so bad it was really weird i felt like very uncontrollable and i was like can i use your phone i think i need to speak to the like therapist guy i was on the phone for around two hours i'd pushed back the whole first day of filming so much but they were like like amazing they were honestly

like so good because look realistically i think they knew i wanted to do it i probably was going to do it i was having a serious moment they also knew that my mental health was in like a really bad place at the time they were amazingly understanding and kind of patient with me and um yeah there was this kind of one one woman there who was like maybe the exec or like a producer maybe the exec producer but she was like my go-to a go-to girl and she made me do it because like i said i spoke to the therapist for ages and i was still a bit like oh god he gave me that very good thing of like, you know, one step at a time, he's like, get ready, go downstairs, see how you feel. Next step, you know, you're ready.

When you just get in the car and get to the location and see how you feel. And like, and it was like, that was like, again, they were like words of wisdom to me at that point. So I was like, I'm not gonna be able to do it. Cause I'm just thinking to the end of the show, I'm like, how the hell am I gonna do seven days? Like a mountain. Like no way. So he's like, you know, it's like one step at a time, to do it because i'm just thinking to the end of the show i'm like how the hell am i gonna do seven days like a mountain like no way yeah so he's like you know it's like

one step at a time like break it down and that helped me so much and then yeah i was just kind of with her and it's such good advice i think for anybody that's listening that i mean it pretty much in all facets of life whether you're trying to achieve something great or you're trying to overcome fear yeah breaking it down into smaller manageable pieces makes it absolutely yeah it was like a game changer for me like those simple yes simple words makes it absolutely yeah it was like a game changer for me like those simple yes simple words but it just helps you think in a different way so yeah i was just kind of talking to them talking to her and i definitely i said like calm down i was just like hey do you know what yeah obviously do it jack and i didn't want to do it

like these things just this show's crazy i want to give it a go like you know that piece of me still in me like oh i wish i if it was more like i wish i still had any need to kind of do that was i right let's go and and yeah just kind of got on with it had like very highs and lows in there every time we finished the task i'd feel literally like on top of the world like everyone in there you know you just accomplished something i never thought i'd be able to do especially like with how I was feeling then when we're kind of going to a task that's when I have the thing of I'm gonna I want to pull out I want to like leave and that in the show you that's the kind of point you pull out when you've kind of reached your your limit and for me definitely for me a bigger part although

physically i mean it was just hell like it was how i was like so hurt doing it like everywhere but for me it was definitely a way bigger mental battle and i think probably everyone in there would say the same because you're thinking i don't need to do this like it doesn't this if I get to the end or not it doesn't actually really make a difference to me I really hit my limit about four days in I think it was like a seven day thing it was like the fourth day mentally I was like

drained but also I was like so physically hurt and had like one injury that was like really annoying me but and I remember thinking yeah cool i'm gonna get to tomorrow and see how i feel if it like still really hurts as in i was at a point where i couldn't like run it's more like a fast limp like oh and we got like halfway through that day we just played a game called murderball which you can imagine is really fun yeah which involves

being like rugby tackled by tony bell you and stuff like that so after that i was like i'm done but the thing that like made me like a lot happy about it one i got further than i ever thought especially the days before it further than i ever thought i'd got like i never thought in a million years when i feel like that i could be able to achieve those kind of things and it really showed me like you know if you just commit it's going to make me feel so much better like afterwards like if i stick through and just persevere and then at the same time i was like well i've left after like completing something so it's kind of like a it was like a good sign off for me i didn't get something and be like uh no thanks i'm gonna go so like i kind of i was like look i'm just gonna do this one tick this off and then yeah it's probably time to go because i can feel like i'm gonna like die now like everything's

so much pain and i was just like yeah i mean beyond exhausted so and you could be proud of yourself at that point honestly like i was so happy with how far i got it was like a you know kind of had to be there moment when you're going through all that to understand how hard it is to do that for that long but like two people get to the end of two people got to the end of the show so i was like yeah i was so happy with how far i got and that really made me like feel like just so much better and it kind of showed me like you know just physical exercise everything like that is so good for your like mental health and that's why i carried on running after that and like training really hard because in the build-up I was training like twice

a day for like two months where are you at now in your life in terms of career in terms of your mental health in terms of your personal situation yeah like mental health I feel pretty good like right now I definitely have my days like about a month ago I had like a weird week I was like trying to help a friend who was going through it and they but they well who would just finally start talking about it and didn't know what was going on and I was just explaining how it was with me and it was like that was the first time I spoke about it in like quite a while so it just kind of made me it just brings it all to just yeah brings it to surface it made me feel a bit like funny for a few days but

like to be honest with you I think like funny for a few days but like to be honest with you i think like i said a lot of my problems were when i was going to things and trying to do something where i felt really like uncomfortable kind of out of your comfort zone as i asked kind of with lockdown you just have to be at home a lot so i do definitely feel like comfortable and i think it's been quite good for my mental health and now when i have the days where i go out and i've got like you know a day of like work or something i've got going to do loads of things i'm really happy to kind of be out sure and stuff so it's kind of like yeah i think it's again nervous about coming here you kind of believe i wasn't you know what i was nervous that i was

gonna get nervous about oh so when it came to i was like oh i don't want to get to the day and be like i don't i i feel a bit like weird yeah i feel like honestly completely fine like i said i'd have you'd probably heard no yeah i wouldn't feel great so i hear talking about lockdown i heard you um you got in a little bit of relationship over lockdown which is um yeah seems a lot of a relationship yeah we were talking about this before we started recording yeah been with your girlfriend now eight months how's that going

it's never easy it's going incredibly well to have a lockdown relationship yeah it's definitely not like easy having a lockdown relationship

but we also don't know any anything else because we met like the beginning of last year because we were neighbours basically

we were like our apartments doors opposite each other and I moved in like the first week of March last year where because we were neighbors basically we were like our apartments doors opposite each other and i moved in like the first week of march last year so that's kind of like how we met and she had a dog so there was lots of dog walk dates basically excuse yeah was it was it difficult dating when you were um really in your stride with youtube and you had like i imagine you people were stopping you a lot yeah like that and when you had the you know stuff on tv yeah i didn't really date then to be honest with you because i'd like there was like two things one i had in my head of like you know i'm just so like focused on what i'm doing right now and i i didn't purposely

not but i would i didn't put much effort into you know it wasn't really one of my priorities whatsoever and I was just having you know I was enjoying it I was like living life I was having so much fun and like all of my friends were single as well so it just I don't know it just didn't happen whatsoever there was no need for me to do that but also my brother got a girlfriend

in his prime of like his his career and I think he'd you know be the first to say that it i'm not saying this is for everyone at all but my experience it like kind of held him back not in terms of she held him back but you know just having a girlfriend you have different priorities and different focuses and stuff they're focusing on their life yeah so i just like didn't have any real intentions what's been the upside of having a partner um because I'm a single guy, so I'm like asking, I want you to pitch it to me.

What's the, yeah. People think I'm so like- It is so much happier, I feel. I know it sounds so like cringy, but I just feel like so much happier. I look at the days of when, you know, being single and like wanting to like go out and do all these things and like,

or like dating and stuff like i look at it now like oh my god so much like effort in a way whereas now it's so like just fun and like relaxing it's very nice to feel for everyone listening to this but that can't see him he's saying all of this but he's shaking his head it's amazing definitely do it but it's just like amazing being you know so comfortable with someone i think for me especially that was like a massive thing because i've been so uncomfortable in so many situations with like where i was at to then meet someone and and be in those positions where normally i would be uncomfortable sounds kind of like cringy but having her there makes me feel like so much better

without her even knowing it just being with someone and whatever makes you feel you know so good and i've never i've never i've literally never been in a relationship really so it's kind of like my first relationship which i don't know if she likes or not really you don't know if she likes it yeah no as in like it's the fact that is my first relationship sometimes she's like you know i wish you'd maybe had a girl from before so you'd know this or that and the other but i think she also likes the fact that she's my first and why wouldn't someone want to be you um i think the main one i'd probably say is there's like a lot of pressure like but i'm the one putting that pressure on myself. No one's putting pressure on me, but it's just a lot of like self-pressure. Like I'm in control of like everything.

I'm, like I said, it's a diary or like CEO. I'm like my own boss. I'm in control of everything I do. I'm in control of all my finances, like what comes in, like what goes out. It's all just kind of on me. So if I stop, you know, it all stops. If I work my hardest, then, you know, hopefully it kind of on me so if I stop you know it all stops if I work my hardest then you know hopefully it kind of pays off so it's just a lot of a lot of pressure in terms of you know

wanting to keep going and like also expand like taking like every opportunity you can get that's why you know I went from YouTube and I did radio and I was like oh I want to break that barrier to TV and then I started DJing and doing like music and going on tour and all these things it was like just grabbing every opportunity I can to kind of grow as much as I possibly can but it's like exhausting it definitely takes a toll and sometimes you do need to kind of step back but also like I said if I stop kind of everything stops so taking a step back is like not possible yeah it's a bit of a risk that carpentry is it carpentry yeah job you had when you were 16 does sometimes you wish maybe i'm like yeah because you know my dad does fine for himself he's had three kids and we've all turned out like fine and we've all done

well for ourselves sometimes i feel like i would be so much happier but at the same time i'm like oh my god when i look back at some of the things i've done in my life i'm like that's amazing i'm like so proud of myself for some of the things i've done in my life i'm like that's amazing i'm like so proud of myself for some of the things i've done in the moment it felt pretty cool but when i look back on it i'm like that was like huge and you're still so young yeah i'm 20 just about yeah 26 taking all the pressure off and i don't want to apply extra pressure here but when you look forward at your the next i don't know 20 years of your life how in your mind do you see that kind of playing out I don't mean like I'm going to be doing this exact thing but like what are you

looking for from life um I think I'm looking like being completely honest with you it's kind of like probably looking more into like businesses and like business and having like I said I've got my own like production company right now that's doing probably way better than I thought it was going to be doing at this point which is good so like things like that just growing it as much as i can and you know kind of the classic i want to be like a boss and across so many things not that i'm not working but you know it's not like i've got a nine to five type thing so it's kind of like like i was doing youtube because i could kind of do whatever I wanted with my days but I knew I had to do like X amount of things and and you know I'm still making like my money and everything

like that and I think yeah you know I look at I'm probably not going to be 30 years old making like these kind of YouTube videos anyway who knows but but I might be a niche for that yeah yeah so it's like realistically I look at my life probably like trying to go into into that kind of direction just building something else well I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next I'm um I'm going to be watching very very closely now that I stalk you on social media so and I think like as I say you're like super young but you have such a wealth of experience from everything you've been through and I don't think you know sometimes we don't realize how,

how valuable some of that experience has been until, until later in life. And in fact, I still think about my hardest ever moment starting a business as a young guy as being my, some of my most traumatic moments as being my most valuable because they like, you have something that no one else has.

Right. You know, and you have the experiences. Thank you so much for coming today. Your story is riveting and you've been so honest as well yeah which is the whole point of this podcast at the end of the day because i also know that you've helped a lot of people by walking us through your journey with mental health with with you know and with learning a bit more about it so just want to say a huge thank you and um if you ever do start a podcast we'll do this again once you think i can siphon

but uh but yeah thank you so much thank you Bye.