The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Jay Shetty: The 3 Simple Things A Happy Life Needs

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

Jay Shetty is the best-selling author of Think Like a Monk, host of the No. 1 podcast On Purpose, spiritual friend to celebrities from Ellen Degeneres to Oprah Winfrey, and a former monk.  Jay is one of the most wise people I have ever met. Very few people can reach into depths of insight on such a wide array of topics like he does. I learnt so many things I didn't even realise I needed to know from this conversation, and I know you will too. I definitely was able to put things into perspective in this conversation. Jay has a way of linking very practical advice to really profound insights about life. This conversation went in so many unexpected directions and was definitely one of the discussions I've found most personally valuable. Jay, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. Follow Jay: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jayshetty Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JayShettyIW Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to Amazon Music, who when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And

thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. This is a really difficult question to ask, but it is the best question you can ask yourself. I don't need to tell you who he is because his reputation precedes himself. I enjoyed being a monk as much as I enjoy understanding media. And that's really paradoxical for a lot of people, but that's just my truth.

I've always wanted to share meditation at scale with the world. If you just keep trying to change your environment, hoping that your life's going to improve, you're going to feel dissatisfied scale with the world. If you just keep trying to change your environment, hoping that your life's going to improve, you're going to feel dissatisfied at the next place. And I feel we're just conditioned to say, okay, you don't like your job, quit your job. You don't like your relationship, quit your relationship. And I think we just keep saying that it's this external shell that we're in when it's actually this shell and what's happening inside of it that's defining all of these perspectives. I believe that to create

happiness day to day in one year, in one month, in a week, you have to have... Jay Shetty is a household name all around the world. He is someone that's provided inspiration, wisdom, and insight to billions of people using social media. I don't need to tell you who he is because his reputation precedes himself. In his early years, he was lost. Becoming a monk helped him to find himself. And through service, he's gone on to touch the lives of billions of people through social media. But who is he really? Who's the guy behind the following? Me and Jay have a connection that I'm yet to experience with pretty much any guest that's sat here with me.

And I know you're going to feel that today. This is a truly special, honest, open conversation between two men about so many things that I genuinely think the world needs to hear. Thank you, Jay. And when I say thank you to Jay, you're going to understand why shortly. So without further ado, I'm Stephen Butler, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Jay, first of all, you know, I usually start these podcasts in a much more serious way, but it's good to see you back in the UK.

Mate, it's good to see you. And I was just saying this to you offline that I think the first time we met was around three years ago, three or four years ago in new york and i think we had this plan to become best friends so we're like we're like we're gonna see each other this is this is this and then all of a sudden i moved to la yeah and then you moved back to london too but it's so good to see you man no it's great to be reunited i do feel like we've got so much in common in so many unbelievable ways but the reason why i was so excited by this conversation is because we've also got so many, we've walked a different path in our lives. And you're such a self-aware, sort of self-analytical human being. So the wisdom that I've gained from watching you online over the years as someone that comes from London, is from the UK as well, and is speaking to the world through their content and channels, I find, I found truly inspirational. So let's get into it. So one of the things I always start with

with people, and I think this comes from my experience with like studying childhood psychology is trying to understand what it was in their early years that, that has led them to go on the path they went on and ultimately to be sat here. When you look back at those early years in your life in growing up in London what were the formative things that you point out in hindsight and go you know I wouldn't be who I am now a bit of an anomaly if that hadn't happened I think one of the biggest things would be that I felt I mediated my parents' marriage when I was younger. And so I was their go-to person for my mom and my dad. And I have a really good relationship with both of them and love them both. And they would come to me with their challenges

and their issues and their pain points. And as I was growing up, I felt that I was always trying to reconcile, discuss, converse, negotiate for both of them on either side. And one thing I realized very early on as a young child was I never wanted to take a side. I never wanted to make one of them win and one of them lose.

I never saw one of them right and one of them wrong. I really saw them both as two humans who were trying their best, but just like me, were naturally flawed and fallible and made mistakes. And I think that gave me a sense of compassion that runs through to today for myself and for others and for people that I work with and the people that we communicate through the podcast and videos, because I just saw very early on in my life that people could mean well, people could try their best, people could try to be loving and share kindness, but they could still feel that things weren't working out for them. So I look at that as a massive moment in

my past because now when I look back at it, I think I've just been doing this for so long. Like I feel like I started doing this when I was probably six, seven, maybe 10 years old. And so now to be still doing it today, it feels like something that was a natural role that I embodied at that time. And it's now a role that has evolved into looking internally for myself, also looking at the things that I adopted from that time that were uncomfortable and things that made me question my own self-worth and my own meaning of life. What were those things? I would say that for me, I realized that we either try to repeat or avoid what we saw in our childhood.

And that happens either unconsciously or consciously. So you could be unconsciously repeating what you saw in your childhood or you could be consciously avoiding it. And I found that there were parts of me that were really great at avoiding some of the negative things, but there were also subconscious parts of me that adopted some of those behavior traits that I only discovered in the last two years. And so I'll give you an example with my wife. I sometimes played the role of sacrificing and over giving but then expecting her to give the

same amount back now the way I see sacrifice now is that if you sacrifice something for someone and then you want it back it's not a sacrifice it's a transaction you can't give someone a discount and then ask them to pay full price and then say it was a sacrifice because it wasn't it was a transaction and i saw that in my life because of the way i'd received loved from extended families or love from school or teachers or whatever it may have been i was was loved in that way, where I was loved, but then made to feel guilty if I didn't repay it in full. And I saw myself adopting that in my own loving relationships with my wife,

with my family, with my sister. And I literally only spotted that two years ago. And I thought to myself, this has to stop. I can't repeat this cycle. What is the work you do to spot those, to illuminate some of those kind of subconscious behavior patterns that, because we all have them going on in the back room of our lives and our minds. We have our childhood, the lessons we learn and the limiting beliefs we learn, almost acting as the puppet master of our adult lives. And so how does one

become, get to a point where they can spot that and go, do you know what, that comes from that? What, is there an exercise you've done? Is there, you know, tell me. I think the first thing is that when you experience conflict with someone or you experience a disagreement or a disconnect with someone, our society version is blame them. It's their fault. They upset you. They're wrong. And our friends will agree with that. When you go and tell your friend that so-and-so did something, they'll say, oh yeah, well, you know, he or she's a X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z, sorry, X, Y, Z, spending too much time in America, the X, Y, Z of they're so-and-so, they're like this, they're like that. And actually in that moment, I think the best thing we

can do is, what's my accountability in this? What part of this have I created for myself? This is a really uncomfortable, difficult question to ask, but it is the best question you can ask yourself. If every time something goes wrong or something doesn't work out, instead of blaming someone else or blaming yourself, if you can pause and say, what part of this am I responsible for? And I think the reason why that's difficult is because we see everything as binary. We see it as it's either their fault or it's all my fault. It's all your fault or it's all my fault. And the truth is there is no all. It's all parts. It's partly your fault and it's partly my fault. But if I don't understand what my part to play is, then I can't

actually understand it. So the first step is what's my part? That's the first part of the exercise. The second part of the exercise is now that I know what my part is, let me focus on what skill I'm missing. Let me focus on what growth I haven't had. Let me focus on what part of my life feels incomplete that makes me act in my incomplete way with others. So what part of me is missing? And I found that when I was

over-sacrificing or over-giving, that's because I was trying to demand love from someone else and demand validation from someone else. So I was almost trying to achieve or earn that love and validation. And so I realized I wasn't giving it to myself. And so now I've realized that whatever you want from someone else, give it to yourself first. If you want compliments from someone else, give them to yourself first. If you want validation from someone else, give it to yourself first. Because no matter how many of them they give you, if you never gave it to yourself in the first place, it will never be enough. So that's the second step. Whatever you want from from someone else give it to yourself first

And the third step i'd say to get to that self-awareness Is simply sitting down And plotting the three most difficult times in your life So sit down and write down what would have been the three most difficult times in my life for the most painful decision making points of transition in my life, for the most painful decision-making points of transition in my life. And then ask yourself, when you made good decisions, what was the environment like? Who were you listening to?

What were people saying around you? And when you made poor decisions, what was the environment like? What were people saying? Who were you listening to? And you'll start to spot a pattern. And I found that in my life, anytime I make a good decision, most people disagree with me. I have to listen to my inner voice and I'm usually doing something against the grain. Now that's my pattern,

but everyone has to find their own. You've reached a point of self-awareness where you can literally pinpoint the steps of doing that. And obviously your coaching and all the work you do has, has exacerbated that extremely. Is there like a practical day-to-day habit you've installed in your life to be able to look back at how Jay's behaving on like, is it a notepad? Is it voice notes in your phone? Is it meditation? What is the, the day-to-day practice that's got you to this point? So I would say that over time, I've done journaling.

I love voice notes because I like speaking sometimes more than writing. But I'd say the biggest one, if I'm completely honest with you, Stephen, like sitting here with you and you're looking in my eyes, asking me that question, I'm like, the honest answer is

I talk to myself a lot while driving. I talk out loud to myself a lot. And I will sit there while I'm driving and I will talk through that day about a situation where I didn't like how I behaved or a situation where I was really happy about how I behaved. And so I'll pinpoint,

and I always think it's really powerful to pinpoint a point where you were below your expectation and a point where you were below your expectation and a point where you were above your expectation. And I'll sit there and I'll ask myself, why was it that I was above my expectation? Why did I have the ability in that moment to act in that way? I'll give an example of where I was below my expectation the other day. I was going to play tennis with a friend in the morning and I was running late because I woke up I was figuring things out that morning I had a few work emails from the night before I'm eight

hours ahead of LA right now so I had things to catch up on I'm running late to play tennis we've got the court booked and it's only booked for an hour so we might be late something really insignificant by the way I turn up and I meet the lady at the front and they haven't been able to give me a membership card because I'm only here for 10 days. And then I'm like, here's my membership number. And, and they can't figure it out. And they don't know if I'm in the system. And now we're getting later for the court and I'm holding my own and I'm on the verge of just being like, get on with it. Like, can't we, this is not that complicated. And I resist from that. But in my head, I'm thinking, why did that even happen? Like,

why am I even feeling the urge to put a simple person trying to do their job? Why am I thinking to release my anger and anguish onto them? And when I thought about that later that day, it was all because I was late. I was frustrated that my friend's going to be upset that we're 30 minutes late for the court. I was upset that we're going to get even less time. And I was about to take it out on an innocent person who actually has nothing to do with any of it, who's trying to do their job. And so for me, talking out loud when I'm on my own, spending time, actually now when I'm answering your question, spending time alone is the only place where you get to have these conversations. And most of us are spending time away from being alone because we're scared of having these conversations. I'm sure you've seen they did that study where they asked men and women whether they either wanted to be

alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes or give themselves an electric shock. Now the results will surprise you. 30% of women gave themselves an electric shock and 60% of men gave themselves an electric shock. And the reason was because they didn't want to be alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes. We struggle so much with the idea of being present in our own minds and bodies and hearts that we distract ourselves. So really the habit is being present with myself, with my thoughts and working through when I'm happy with myself and when I think I could have done better. You know, I really, really can relate to that point about not wanting to be alone with your thoughts, not from my own experiences, but because I've got

friends around me specifically over the last year when we've been in this lockdown who have really struggled. And even over the Christmas period, I've got a couple of friends who really really struggle because they are alone with their thoughts and you've spoken there to the value of sitting alone with your thoughts and silence and self-contemplation but what is it in the human in a human that makes them not want to be alone with their thoughts why for some are their thoughts so such an unpleasant place to be i think it's because we've equated loneliness and being alone with abandonment and those are two completely different ideas you can be lonely but that doesn't mean you've been abandoned and we confuse this so much paul tillett writes about this and he says that the challenge today is that we think that there's only one word for being alone and we call it loneliness and he says we've forgotten about

a second word it's called solitude. Solitude and loneliness externally look the same, but they're completely different things. And he says that solitude is the strength of being alone and loneliness is the weakness. And to me, it's because being alone feels like abandonment. It feels like everyone has left us. It feels like we're alone at the end of the party and no one's going to stay. We've created a feeling of being enamored and being forced to admire being together. the person who completes me it's like all of this language is phrased in a way to make you feel half and incomplete when someone came to school and they didn't have someone to sit next to them that person was considered the loner if you had a birthday party and no one showed up you were considered unpopular all of our self-worth since we were young has been defined by do you have people around you? Not the quality of those people, not the depth of those people, not how much those

people actually love you, just did you have people around you? And so we've just been conditioned to believe that being alone means being lonely, means being abandoned, when actually being in solitude could be the most beautiful thing we could do. So it's just as a society, we've got to unlearn that conditioning that's made us forcefully believe that if you don't have someone else, if you turn up to a wedding and you don't have a plus one, that's like one of the most stressful things for people. I don't know who I'm going to take. Why is it that prom, and you don't have a plus one yeah that's like one of the most stressful things for people i don't know who i'm gonna take why is it that prom if you don't have a date every single major life event graduating weddings they're all based around having someone else there

to celebrate you why like why why why can't we just celebrate ourselves and i think that's where we've lost it we've lost the idea of celebrating ourselves do you think that i was just thinking that thinking that through and i was thinking you know if 10 000 years ago on the in the tribes of africa if i was without if i was without a tribe i would have been um from a reproductive standpoint less attractive no woman would want to have been with me because a tribe speaks to the resources I can provide in bringing up a baby for our family. But also, you know, I would have been in great danger. My social status would have decayed. And typically they see this in tribes, I think in monkeys, where if you fall out of the tribe, eventually you get sick or die. So do you think that's a prehistoric part of our conditioning or is it like a social new age social construct? I think prehistorically it makes sense but I think the social construct

has been that equating solitude or loneliness with isolation seclusion and separation and I think we confuse the two ideas spending time every day in solitude is not me saying to you don't talk to anyone all year you're not good enough right yeah and it's not like me saying spending some time talking to yourself and being alone with your thoughts means never go to a party or an event like i think i just think we've got really poor as humans as entertaining two ideas that are supposedly conflicting, but recognizing that there's a middle ground. Like we're poor at saying, okay, well, Jay and Steven aren't saying be alone or be surrounded by people. We're saying spend some time alone and be intentional about who

you spend your time with. And for some reason, the human mind goes, no, no, no. I think you're telling me that I have to go live in a forest and be away from everyone but that's not really what solitude is solitude is i am comfortable spending time with myself for a few moments a day enjoying my own company and speaking of spending time with people then so one of the concepts you write a lot about is this kind of 75 percent rule um people often discuss the importance of the company you keep, whether it's their wisdom, their attitude, their positivity, their optimism, whatever, and the effect that can have on you as a human being. What have you done in your life? And also what is the importance from what you've experienced of surrounding yourself with people that have good values, that are equally ambitious,

that share a sort of similarities as it relates to who you want to become? Is it important? Does it matter? I think one of the biggest mistakes I've made, and I think we make as humans, is we often look for divinity in humanity. You're looking for that divine person that has all the answers and that is infallible and perfect. And when you seek divinity in humanity, you're left with insecurity and anxiety because no one fulfills that divine search. And so for me, what I really had to understand is I went down that road and felt like I was let down and felt like people made me feel unworthy or unequipped was I recognized that there were four pillars of relationships and they are care, competence, consistency, and character. Every single person in your life is going to be able to give you or should be able

to give you at least one of these four characteristics. Very rarely, if ever, will one person give you all four. And if you're lucky, you might have a few people in your life that give you two or three. So let's talk about each of them. Care. My mom, there is no one in the world who cares for me more than my mom. She would do anything for me. She'd be there for me. All she wants to make sure, doesn't matter what I've achieved or what I've done. If she picks up the phone to me, her first question is, have you eaten? What did you eat? Are you safe? Are you healthy? Right? Like that's all she cares about. Now, my mom isn't the person that i go to for business advice

or she's not the person i'm saying hypothetically that i go to for social media advice that's not her competence but she doesn't need to be she cares for me and that's what i get from her now let's go to competence if i'm thinking about starting a business, new dragon over here, right? Like you'd be a great friend to call up. You're someone who understands what it takes to get investors, scale a business, build teams, manage internationally, grow, scale, sell.

Like you have that journey and you have that network, you have that career. I'd also care about you. I know you also care about me. So I've got two out of four in you and you've got good character. You don't have the consistency though

because we don't see each other enough. So three out of four. 75%. Yeah, 75%. And so for that, for me, is that perfect example of there's competence there. And there is care there, which is wonderful. And there's character there.

I believe you're someone of good character. And that's the next one, character. There are some people in our life that hold us to higher values. They help us grow with greater integrity. They help us see things beyond what we're chasing. They make us look beyond our desires and make us recognize that there's so much more to life.

And those people are massively important. And those people may not be the people we see every week. They may not be the people we see every day. They may not be the people that we call up, but you need them as your compass. The people with character are your compass. And then finally, you have the people that are consistent. You have some mates that you just know

are always going to pick up the phone. You know that if you need to move house, you've got a family emergency, you know which friend you call. They may not be the competent business advisor. They may care about you, but they don't care about you as deeply as your mom does. But they are consistently always there for you.

And that's beautiful. But the problem is when we look at our consistent friend, we think, well, why are you not competent? We look at our competent friend, we think, why don't you have good character? We look at our character friend and say, well, why aren't you always there? And so we're always looking for which C they don't have rather than appreciating for them for exactly what they bring to our life

you know I met your wonderful wife yeah you did yeah in New York yeah honestly in a room full of hundreds and hundreds of people if there was a light like if she felt like a physical like a light in the room just her energy was just unbelievable and it's it's remarkable because she she felt so much like you in so many ways I'm guessing when you were talking about that third point about character and values and showing you things in life that are beyond what you might have thought and the meaning of life and you know from my own 10 minute conversation with her, I feel like she must be in that category, right? Yeah, I always used to say to people,

so people become friends with me and I hope they like me. And then I introduce them to my wife and then I never hear from them again. So she steals all my friends. And I'm not even just saying that, like that's genuinely true. She has stolen every single one of my friends as soon as they meet her so I can't introduce anyone to her anymore but yeah

she's just I don't know how and it's been interesting because my wife has taught me so much more about me and life than I ever thought a partner could and And it's because as my, so my wife and I've been together since before my external career took off. And so she was with me when I had no money, no job. She introduced me to her family when I had no money, no job. I met her parents. I met her extended family. I had no career plan. So I've been with her for around eight years now and far, far before everything kind of took off externally. And what was really, really phenomenal was as my life took off externally, I started to develop this need for validation from her for what I was achieving. So if I'd get a big deal, I'd be like, look, look,

look what I did. Like, look what I did. Like, isn't this amazing? And she wouldn't be impressed by it. And then if I did something and it went viral, I'd be like, oh, look at this. Look at this. Like, look how cool this is. Like, isn't this amazing? And she wasn't impressed by it. And then if I was on the front cover of a magazine or something I'd be like oh look how cool this is like look look at this and she wouldn't admire it and for a long time I started to think did I marry the wrong person and I was thinking to myself did I am I with the wrong person because I know plenty of people who are telling me that that cover's amazing and that video is amazing and that podcast is amazing and that person's amazing like am i like am i not worthy of respect and i realized as i and i reflected on that as i said earlier i was like what part of this am i accountable for and the answer was really simple

my life my wife loved me for everything that came before that. She loves me despite all of that. If all of that was to go away tomorrow, she'd still love me. And I was like, isn't that the most beautiful thing? Like, isn't that what we all want? Isn't that what we're truly craving? Is that we are loved beyond our appearance, our achievements, our ambitions, and our goals. And I had that, but I wasn't seeing that because I wanted to be loved for my ambitions, my achievements, my goals. And so, yes, when you talk about my wife being a light, she's one of those people for sure, because she's been my guide, my coach, my teacher, without even knowing. If you asked her this question, she wouldn't say that she was doing it intentionally, but she's been such a great teacher and light in my life in so many ways and so

i'm always just trying to anytime she annoys me i'm like there's a lesson in this for me and and there's going to be something really profound in this for me because she's she's she's cut from a different cloth she's she's remarkable i don't even know how she's like her parents her parents are incredible and you know they've they've given her a lot of love and so i see that kind of flow through her it's so funny i burst out laughing then because it reminds me a lot of my girlfriend and i i've said this on this podcast a lot and it's i've never actually realized the the kind of fundamental truth in um what you said there but whenever i talk about my girlfriend i say she doesn't really care when i if i'm number one in the charts or if i'm number one here or that the reaction i get from her versus other people like my boys is kind of a bit more mute

maybe she just doesn't care about my you know my like prefer but you've what you've highlighted there is in fact that is somebody that values something else yes in you so but my girlfriend would be very very happy and very very impressed with me doing a bunch of other things that would maybe a bit more pure in their values she would celebrate those things it's not like she's not celebrating me it's just i don't get the euphoria from the like number one in the podcast chart yes and it's a question of values and in fact as you say that's what we should all be looking for yes but society has taught me that you clap when you get big numbers on stuff or you go number one or the bank balance is big yeah so that's so interesting it's probably i guess someone's going to draw the conclusion

from that they're going to look at their partner who's been clapping because they've got like a promotion at work and they're gonna go you've got bad values love and not at all we should we should we should be supportive partners about everything that our partners do but it is beautiful that you get an opportunity to learn about your partner's values by what they value in your own success and that doesn't mean that like you just said like your girlfriend or my wife is not happy when something goes number one or does great of course they're happy but there's something deeper than that that makes them happier yeah exactly and i think that's really special and that's that character in that life when i was reading through your story and from what i've

observed with your story there was um some really interesting similarities that really reminded me of mine but um I feel like are an exception and it's it's you and you know what you said it before we started talking you said um we were talking about various business things and business decisions you've made and also you we were talking about you moving to LA after just going there with your wife for a week and you said well it just felt like the right thing to do we were there for one week and it felt like the right thing to do so although you were leaving New York where you had all of this stuff and you were starting to build um your presence there you used your your compass became how you felt and when I looked through your your history from your very very early days from a teenager to school to university, to going off

and becoming a monk, to getting a job at Accenture, then getting picked up by Arianna Huffington at Huffington Post and quitting after six months because you were doing this other thing. You are a remarkable quitter. And you seem to be one that's guided by this compass of how does this feel, not what will people think. Talk to me about that's guided by this compass of how does this feel? Not what will people think? Talk to me about that. And is that observation accurate? It's such a hard way to live in one sense and such an easy way to live in one sense. That observation, I never put it in those words, but I love those words.

And I've heard you talk about that before, about being a good quitter. And I love that. I think what you're saying is true. I agree with you. I've never articulated in the way you just did, but it feels so true. I, from a very young age, just felt there was this strong inner voice. And I believe everyone has it. This isn't me being religious or spiritual or woo-woo. This is me saying that there is a voice that we all hear in our minds, in our hearts, in our heads, wherever you want to say it is, it's there. And the challenge that happens is in our early years,

you're told to tell it to be quiet. So every time that voice says, well, maybe, no, no, no, no, no, just do what they're saying, do what they're told, get on that conveyor belt, get on that assembly line, stick that barcode on your back, become a machine, go be a robot. And it's almost programmed. And so that voice that is not machine-like, that voice is the human inside of us, is being trained to be a machine. And so we start treating ourselves like machines. And machines, you just program them and then press enter and then it gives you what it wants. But we don't function that way. We're a conversation in the universe. We're not a program. And so if you're a conversation and you're an interaction, you're dynamic, that inner voice becomes so squashed

that now by the time we're 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, whatever age you are, you can't hear it anymore. So you say, oh, that's some spiritual mumbo jumbo stuff because I don't hear that voice. But that's just because we quietened it. So for me, even till this day, and by the way, I have more things trying to quiet that voice today. I had a conversation with my team recently. I was talking about a few new things I wanted to try out this year. And a lot of people said to me, they said, Jay, don't you think that's a risk to the brand you've created? Don't you think that's a risk to who you are? And I said, well, I haven't worked this hard to not do what I truly want. Like I haven't got

this far by being someone else. I've got this far by being true to myself. So I can only continue to do that. And so, yes, there are things that I do that are slightly unconventional for people who've been monks in the past. There are certain ways that I live my life and there are certain things that I enjoy. And I always say this, I enjoyed being a monk as much as I enjoy understanding appreciate what I gain from all these pursuits. And I see them as being this beautiful, you know, beautiful, symbiotic, synergetic combination of learning and life and experience. But the problem is our mind has said, no, those things are paradoxical. That's an oxymoron. You can't connect those two things. Those two things are unconnectable. And I'm like, well, Steve Jobs said that creativity is connecting things and connected thinkers will rule the future. So if we can't spot

connections in anomalies, then I think we actually sell ourselves short. And so when you say being a remarkable quitter, i see that as me saying i only have trained myself to know that i can only do what i really feel like doing with the awareness that this could be a risk but i'm okay with that does that answer your question yeah yeah and you know you brought up another point there which i think is is equally this sounds a bit like a pun but equally connected connected, which is, you know, society will give you a label. They'll say, okay, you're a monk. So act like and behave like a monk. We know what monks are. Here's the instruction manual of being a monk. And if you do anything other than the

instruction manual there, then they'll say contradiction. They'll say, you're a monk. How'd you live in LA, Jay? You have a, you have a nice home. You make money. And so what is, what is it about these labels that we give people and then we society then tries to enforce and if you step outside of the implicit instructions of the box that we've labeled you in we go fraud yeah yeah what is that there's a really good meme on social media that i've seen fly about for years and it says society says be yourself and then it says, society says, be yourself. And then it says, no, not like that. And I don't know who invented it,

but it's been out there in the meme world for years. And I love it because I'm like, that's exactly it. And the way you just explained what you said, I've actually never heard it said better than that. So you've just explained in 30 seconds what I've been trying to ramble on about for the past three minutes. But that's exactly it, that we want to label people. We want to label things.

We want to label everyone. Now let's take The Rock, Dwayne The Rock Johnson. We could label him a wrestler, but that wrestler is one of the biggest actors in the world today. And forget actors, he's a brand beyond that. Now, if we labeled him as a wrestler and said, no, no, no, you just have to stay a wrestler, you never get to see this.

If you look at Steve Jobs, well, you started by making computers. You're a computer maker, so just make computers. Why are you inventing iTunes? Why are you inventing the phone? Now, I think it gets harder when it gets to things that are spiritually intertwined. And I grew up with the belief for a long time

that if you were truly spiritual, you had to be poor, you had to have nothing, you had to be completely detached and disconnected. And I found that that's a worthy pursuit and has some beautiful rewards at the end of it as a journey. But I also saw having lived that life as a monk, that there were certain areas of impact, certain conversations that we never got to be a part of. There were certain things in mainstream society that we never got to shift. And that's something that called out to my heart personally, where I felt, well, what if mental health was mainstream, that that was a mainstream conversation that everyone in the

world had access to the tools to help themselves for free through podcasting, through interviews, through books, through videos, through content? What if everyone in the world had access to what I have access to as a monk? But what does that need? That needs staff. It needs employees. It needs eight cameras. It needs a microphone. It needs people. It needs employees. It needs eight cameras. It needs a microphone. It needs people. It needs teams. It needs a business. So what looks like a business on the outside is just purpose on the inside,

but we're so schooled and trained to judge things for what they externally look like, not what they internally are, that we don't give ourselves that expansive, abundant mindset to say, well, maybe this could be more. Now, I'm not saying that I don't have imperfections and I'm not saying that I don't love things as well. Like I like nice things. I like nice clothes. I like fashion. I like living in a nice space. So I like nice things and I would never shy away from that.

But I'm also fully aware that I don't depend on my happiness on those things. I'm not putting what I believe is going to make me joyful on those things. But I appreciate having them. But I've also appreciated life when I didn't have them. So they've never defined whether I've worked hard or worked on my purpose,

if that makes sense. 100%. You know, there's two times in this conversation where you've you've made points where where the kind of conclusion that my head has arrived at is we have to meet in the middle if we're going to make progress the first time you did that was when you were talking about um having like an argument with with a wife or a partner or whatever it might be and you've got to actually like meet in the middle and say this is maybe where I can improve and maybe this is where you know you've stepped to file and then you said it again there with the example of spirituality

and probably like the business world, they're seen as polar opposites. One is all about, you know, maybe less of a desire for material possession and attainment and climbing and capitalism. And the other is the definition of it. And you're saying, well, really, if we are to spread the message of spirituality around the world, we're going to need to learn a little bit from the other side about building and scaling and and i just think that phrase the truth is in the middle has haunted me for the last couple of weeks since i came back from indonesia because um it seems to be the nature of everything and we're actually moving away from that as a polarized society black white police the people rich poor you know man woman exactly so and and it's beautiful you said that actually because the buddha always talked about the middle path so he called it the middle path

for that reason from what you just said that it was always about the middle path that the answer was somewhere i interviewed kristen bell recently and she wrote a book called Why the World Needs More Purple People. And that's because of the red and blue states. So the idea of this idea of like meeting in the middle that there's some answers that you only come across if you can, someone's thought about it and talked who love war. And to me, that's what's been missing for so long in spirituality and wellness and health is that we can speak about these things in this really organic, beautiful way. But if it doesn't get organized and if it doesn't get strategic and it doesn't get focused, it just kind of feels like splattered paint and it doesn't allow people to practically apply it in their life. So sometimes when people say, Jay, what you're saying is so simple, it's so basic.

I'm like, yeah, I'm choosing to do that because that's what we all need. Like, don't we all need to make this really simple and easy and practical? I know that's what I need. And by the way, I love getting caught up in a heady intellectual conversation. And I've studied the Vedas that are 5,000 years old

and I can reel off verses and talk about philosophical intricacies, but I don't think that's going to help people at this stage. And that doesn't help me when I started. So for me, I like to focus in on how can we get focused around powerful, simple ideas. And a powerful, simple idea that loads of my guests come here and talk about, and it's interesting that they do because they are incredibly successful people typically,

is this idea of meditation and the power of meditation. Now I've heard this word meditation for many a year and increasingly over time, I've become more compelled by it and started doing it thanks a lot to my girlfriend as well um so and you write about it a lot in your book I mean a couple of the chapters mentioned I mean pretty much several of the chapters mentioned the power of meditation talk to me about this simple idea of meditation and what the impact has been for you and can be for those listening? So in the book, I present three different types of meditation that I was trained in as a monk and that I was exposed to. And they are breathwork, visualization, and mantra. So if you look at all types of meditations that exist today in the world, there are three tools or three formats in which you can do it.

Breathwork, obviously, naturally, it says in the name, it's all about your breathing. And breathwork is generally aimed at body and physical. So if you're having physical anxiety, physical stress, if you're rushing around, your heart rate's gone up, breathwork is a beautiful way to come back into alignment. Now, visualization is really interesting because visualization is used by everyone from Lewis Hamilton when he's driving his car around a track through to David Beckham before he took a free kick. Visualization was the art of sitting in one place, closing your eyes and visualizing

what's that track gonna look like? What's that turn gonna feel like? How's that ball gonna move? It's visualizing the process, not the result. And that's what's fascinating. Western society has made it all about visualizing the result. Visualize yourself at the top of the podium and the goal. The smartest people in the world are visualizing the process and the work and the journey. And that's where manifestation has gone wrong. We can get back to that and then finally mantra or sound so the oldest text on meditation believe that sound has the power to transport and connect us in a way that no other

type of meditation can now we can we all have experience of this when you hear a song from your past you're taken back there immediately when you hear a song that has maybe some ego in it, or there's a song that you listen to on your way to a party or a nightclub because it pumps you up and it makes you feel good. There are songs that make you feel violent. Sound has the ability to wake you up in the morning. You don't wake up by sight. You don't wake up by scent. You don't wake up by taste. You wake up by sound. Sound has the power to awaken deeper parts of us depending on what level it's at. So when you look at meditation, you have breathwork, you have visualization, you have sound. You can try a mix. You can try one or the other. Ultimately for me,

meditation is an opportunity to build a relationship with yourself. That's truly what it is, to build your relationship with your body, with your mind, with your heart, and with your consciousness. And as you continue to meditate through breath work, through visualization, through mantra and sound, that's all that's doing. It's just deepening your relationship with yourself. It's almost like saying, oh, when I'm with my girlfriend or my wife, what do I do? Oh, there is few activities and experiences that you do. You go out for dinner, you watch a movie, you go for a walk. Okay, well, what do I do on my own? Well, when I meditate on my own, I get to know myself better. And that's the beginning of what meditation is. But the greatest

benefits of meditation come from using the right tool for the right part of your life. So before I'm coming on a podcast like this or going on stage, if I'm feeling nervous or my heart rate's going up, I've recognized that that's because I care. It's because I really, really care what I'm about to do and I want to be of service to others. I want what I say to help someone. I want what I say to hopefully start someone's meditation journey potentially. And if that's the case, then I need to be aligned. So I'll practice breath work. I'll breathe in for four and out for four. This simple practice just brings me back into alignment. See, Stephen, we all have this experience. How many times have you ever

woken up and you feel your mind is ahead of your body? Every day. Your body wants to stay in bed and your mind is racing. Yeah. Or you experience the opposite. Your body is racing and your mind is still in bed. So most of our stress and tension in life comes from a lack of alignment in our body and our mind.

Our body's racing 100 miles per hour and our mind is slow or our mind's racing 100 miles per hour and our body's slow. To bring them back into alignment, you breathe in for the same amount of time as you breathe out. Simply doing that brings you back into alignment. Visualization I use for when I think I'm about to start a difficult journey and I think I may lose a bit of patience or I feel like I really need to practice this. Imagine this as I'm about to go on stage doing something that's really big deal and important for me. I'm going to visualize myself pacing back and forth on stage. I'm going to visualize myself communicating that message. I'm going to visualize myself being really energetic on stage. Notice I'm not

visualizing people clapping. I'm not visualizing people saying that was amazing because that's just setting a false expectation. I'm visualizing my performance being the best that it possibly can. And then mantra and sound, which is a big part of my meditation every day, I do to connect with my deeper self. I do to awaken parts of me that are forgotten and to feel a connection to a higher power in the divine. There's so many people listening, right? And you said that so beautifully and eloquently, who I imagine listen to me doing these podcasts and they've maybe tuned in

because they wanted a business podcast and they go, oh, here goes Steve again, talking about meditation or whatever. And that reaction is probably caused by the i don't know the historic kind of snobbery that surrounds spirituality it can be quite a exclusive club right and the terminology can feel very exclusive to normal people and chakras and all of this stuff in alignment it can and when when words like that are said to some people who aren't near the middle, who are very much at the other end of the spectrum, they just turn off to it. So if I was to be someone who's listening

to this now, driving in my van on my way to work this morning, and I see a lot of people in their vans driving, listening to the podcast, what would you say is a really good, just a first step to investigate for themselves subjectively if meditation can add value to their life? Where would they start? Yeah, I would say that the first thing you want to do is put something in your schedule, in your calendar, which is time for you. If you look at your schedule, you would never cancel an important meeting with someone else, but we don't even schedule one with ourself. There is nothing in the calendar that's time with myself, time for me, time for you, time for just this, this whole thing that's going on right now. Literally put it in for five minutes a day. If you can't do five

minutes, do it for two minutes a day. Just put it in there because if you start putting that in there, you might then tomorrow go, okay, well, what am I going to do with this time? I've got five minutes. Wow. Okay. What am I going to do with it? So start putting it in there. That's the first step. The second step I would say is definitely focus on your breath. I think the breath is just something we can all relate to. It's tangible. By the way, athletes have to learn how to control their breath. Musicians have to learn how to control their breath. Whether you're a Dell or whether you're a football player, you have to learn how to breathe in order to perform. Me, you and everyone, we're all athletes in different ways.

We all use our bodies. We all use our minds, whether you're a business person or whether you're an actual athlete playing on a court or a pitch. But are you saying that I don't know how to breathe? I am saying you don't know how to breathe. Yeah, and not you specifically. I'm saying that most people don't know how to breathe. And I didn't know how to breathe until I was taught how to breathe. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but how many times

a day do you get out of breath? I know there's times a day that I get out of breath. How many times a day do you feel that when you're experiencing an emotion, your breath changes? Like when you're crying or you're sad or you're upset, your breath changes. When you're happy and elated, your breath changes. So our breath is connected to every single emotion. So if we want to navigate our emotions and our life, we have to train our breath. So I would just say to everyone, take out two to three minutes

and just take a moment to breathe in and out and breathe in for four and out for four. Just try it as simply as that. Now, if you're someone who struggles to get to sleep, which can often be something that I think everyone struggles with, that's when you want to breathe out for longer than you breathe in. So if you're breathing in for four, breathe out for more than four to relax and rest your body. And if you're one of these people that goes, Jay, I've got, you know, I've got, like you said, I've got to do a delivery today. I've got to run to this meeting. I've got to get to this. And you need more energy. Breathe

out for less time than you breathe in. So get to this and you need more energy breathe out for less time than you breathe in so you may breathe in for a second and breathe out for a millisecond it's a really sharp breath out and if you do that you'll feel this pumping energy in your body and so to me it's these are really practical tools that i think we all need to sleep so everyone knows their meditation for sleep we all need to get energized so that's a simple meditation for energized and we all need to just feel like we're not rushing. So I think those are hopefully quick things that feel practical to anyone and everyone. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I think my natural position on things is to be a little bit of a skeptic. And I, when I was in Indonesia the last time I, my girlfriend brought me to see

a breathwork coach. And before we did the breathwork, explained it to me and so this is this is as a logical guy like i am the explanation matters a lot yeah and he was talking to me about um how we pretty much live most of our lives these days because of the overstimulation because of the stress because of the screens in this kind of like permanent state of fight or flight and when you look at what happens in fight or flight and i studied biology i know what happens to the body um anatomically and physically your what happens to your digestive tract. And I mean, this is what a lot of people say when they say I'm nervous and they've lost their appetite. That's your body preparing and keeping the minerals and nutrients it needs to expend energy to help you in a

situation on the Serengeti when a lion is running at you. That's a very prehistoric, innate part of our conditioning. And we do live on edge. Our notifications run our lives and all of these things. So when we think about why people might be getting a little bit more anxious day to day, it's probably because we're living in like a heightened state of fight or flight. And one of the things that happens in fight or flight as well as your breathing changes. So yeah. And then I think about the moments where I'm feeling a little bit stressed and one thing i've done my it's funny it's so funny my head went straight to new york city as i'll go i'll stop and i'll just go and whenever i do that someone turns to me and goes are you okay okay i'm fine i'm just like i am now yeah yeah but no i completely agree and um i think

it's one of those things that i think everybody listening regardless of who you are or how much of a tough guy you are you should um definitely you're a tough guy steven so you know well not really no not really i'm a bit soft okay you know around the edges this let's talk a little bit about fear then because we talked about that there in your book in chapter three you you talk about there being good fear and bad fear. How can fear be a good thing? I realized that fear could be healthy or unhealthy based on how I used it. And most of us don't realize that we get consumed by fear instead of using fear. So fear becomes our being in the sense that fear becomes what controls us. It tells us what we should do and what we shouldn't do.

It tells us how we should think and we shouldn't think. It stops us from doing stuff that's really important to us. And it makes us do things that we would never ever do. It makes us say things to people that we love that we would never want to say to them. And on the other end, it stops you from saying things you really want to say to someone because you don't want to appear weak

and your ego won't let you. So fear takes this really magnetic controlling effect on our whole lives. But fear at the same time can be one of the healthiest things because it's basically giving you a signal as to what's important. It's basically giving you as a signal as to how you feel. And when you use it as a signal, not as a suggestion or a push, it changes everything. So let's make

that practical. When you are in your home and if the fire alarm goes off, that gives you a signal to say, check for the fire. Check if there's a fire, right? Now, if you go, oh, just turn it off. It doesn't matter. Let's avoid my fear. Let's avoid it. Let's just turn it off. Let's forget about it. Your house could burn down. Or if you're lucky, there was nothing and it's fine. But the odds are that there could be a fire. Now, if you're someone who goes, well, let me inspect it. Let me be curious about that. I am scared that there's a fire in my house now that I've heard the fire alarm, but let me be curious. Let me inspect. Let me check. Imagine we approached

our fear in that way. Imagine every time I felt scared of something, I said, well, let me get curious about this. Why am I scared of this? Why is it affecting me so much? What about this scares me? Is it all of it or is it just a part of it? When you start doing it, you start to break that fear down. And that's the healthy way of looking at fear rather than the unhealthy way of saying, forget about it, keep it away from me, I don't want to go there. And so for me, I really feel that fear is what blocks us from these beautiful breakthroughs in life. And it has such a chokehold on us, like it has such a strong hold on us. And I think most of us are living our lives because we're scared of what someone will say, what someone will think or what someone will do. And that feels like something that we're going to regret

when we're at the end of our lives. Well, they do, right? So they interview people, as you know, on their deathbed and this is the number one regret of the dying. Your DMs, they must be full of people that are exhibiting exactly that behavior because I know mine are. A young person saying, I'm in this job job i'm in this relationship i it sucks but yeah fear right

yes fear of change fear of uncertainty whatever it might be what do you typically say to those people that you know that they hate the situation they're in but the fear is kind of imprisoning them to into inaction i think i always meet it i always i was saying this to someone on my team this morning actually i i always try and meet everyone with compassion and not judgment because i know what it feels like to experience that and i still experience that in different areas of my life so it's always there and i think if you don't meet it with compassion you can kind of say something really energetic in the moment and kind of make them feel like they've solved it,

but that isn't really wearing it down. I think for me, the first thing is to acknowledge that that fear is real, to acknowledge that there potentially will be backlash, that there potentially will be someone who's upset because I think often we're told, oh no, just do what you want and it doesn't matter. And I'm like, well, it does matter

because maybe you are a good person and you don't want someone to be upset or you don't want to let your parents down or you don't want to hurt someone, right? Or you don't want to ruin your reputation by quitting your job or whatever it may be. And I think it's important to acknowledge that that's real and that may happen.

But I think what I try and do next is say, okay, well, let's say you didn't change anything. How are you going to feel in five to 10 years? And that's my favorite question to ask someone. Let's not change anything about your life. How does it feel in five to 10 years? And if it feels worse than what you think it is now, chances are that even if you're going to hurt someone,

that's probably the better way to go. But if you say you're going to feel the same or better, then sure, just accept that. And most people will say, well, no, if I don't change anything, if I don't get out of this, my life's going to be worse. But here's the other thing. I think we're always conditioned to think that we need to change our situation to create a change in our life. And actually, with what both of us believe, it's all about a change in perspective and mindset. I have learned things from jobs that I hated, but that are so useful to me right now.

I have learned things from relationships with people I've had and those people that I didn't get along with, but those lessons are still serving me today. I've been in countless situations where I wanted to get along with, but those lessons are still serving me today. I've been in countless situations where I wanted to get out of that situation, but that situation was perfectly designed to show me something.

And the problem is we're constantly trying to just move and get away. And so really what I say to everyone is, I want you to find out what is the perspective shift that this situation is trying to create in your life. Because if you take that with you that perspective is going to stay with you no matter the situation but if you just keep trying to change your environment hoping that your life's going to improve you're going to feel dissatisfied at the next place and the next place and the one after

that and i feel we're just conditioned to say okay you don't like your job quit your job you don't like your relationship quit your relationship it's not the job or relationship it's the way you see it and i think we just keep saying that it's this external shell that we're in when it's actually this shell and what's happening inside of it that's defining all of these perspectives so much i mean that was a unbelievably beautiful answer and i'm gonna 100 still that answer i want you to know especially that five-year point, because it is a really good sort of mental game to role play. One of the things I was thinking when,

you know, you were talking then is about a lot of those messages that we'll get on Instagram, wherever it might be, they're centered in insecurity, some kind of insecurity. And because we have a lot of followers, you significantly more than me.

And because we have a big audience, what people will assume is that we have all the answers but we've got it all figured out and that we live our lives like saints and i always want to be really clear on this podcast that i absolutely do not same so let's talk about that how about we go back and forward and we just say a couple of things we're really really bad at and we want to improve on whether they are insecurities they are lessons wisdom we know but we don't follow etc etc you please be my guest oh this one's been the one that the universe keeps teaching me so when if i think about this question this is the first thing that came to my mind i keep believing that i'm going to meet someone who's going to help me take my work to the next

level. And so I always have had this belief and I don't know where it comes from. It's one of those ones that I still need to figure out where every year I'll be like, oh, well, yeah, yeah. If I'm working with that person, that person like as a manager or an agent or whatever it was like, that person's going to help me get to another stage. And the universe just keeps teaching me every year that it's you, it's you, it's you, it's you. Like you've got to do it for yourself. There's not going to be anyone that comes into your life and changes your life.

But my naivety every year is to try and look for that person. And if someone asked me and said, well, Jay, who's going to be that person for me? I would tell them, no, what are you talking about? It's you. That's what I would say to them. Off the bat, I would say to someone stop depending on other people

stop waiting for someone to change your life you have to change your life but then in my own life i keep my action show that i'm still looking for that so that's the first thing i'm sure that let's go back and forth i like this yeah there's there's going to be plenty more okay so the first loads came to mind yeah so i'll just i'll try and start from the top so the first thing that came to mind. So I'll just, I'll try and start from the top. So the first thing that came to mind that I, I know the truth upon and I would preach about on this podcast, but I find it hard to do is I still kind of impose my own bias and beliefs on the world onto others. And I still loosely don't understand why everybody doesn't want to do what I want to do with their life. So I don't understand why everybody doesn't want to be successful and push and climb the ladder and pursue and have nice things and build wealth and build an empire. So sometimes there's this real bias in the advice I give people

and this real kind of like naivety and lack of understanding that happiness is the North Star. We all have our own path to getting there. And I can even exhibit that as an employer. I can, a voice can sometimes question why team members might not behave in the same way as me. And it's fundamentally because again, the North Star is happiness and their path to being happy is not the same as mine. And that's a really dangerous game to play, especially when you've got a big platform

because you'll make people feel inadequate for their journey to happiness because it doesn't resemble your own. And so I really need to get better at understanding we all have different paths. And if I just say to myself, the North Star is happiness and we will have our own ways there,

then I can stop preaching upon people or assuming that because they are not following my path, they are incorrect. Yes, yes, I love that. I think one of the biggest things I obviously talk about is asking people to take time for themselves and make time for themselves. incorrect yes so yes i love that i i think one of the biggest things i obviously talk about is asking people to take time for themselves and make time for themselves you already know where this is going and and i think it's really interesting because

i i think i try and i think i do but i know that this year when it came to so i i try and take a full month off every year for myself and usually i go to india and because of covid i haven't been able to go for the last two years and i usually go and live with the monks again and and take part in all the meditations and practices for a month and it's one of my favorite things to do and i haven't been able to do it for the last two years so i still decided i would take a month off. And it came and I said I would do from the 15th of December to the 15th of Jan. And then I found out a week before

that I kind of had to stay for an extra week in LA for work. So I delayed it and I was like, all right, I'm going to do 22nd of December to the 17th of Jan. And then I got to London. I started taking that break off, but it was like, I got to a point where I could see that I'd been delaying my self-care and I kept delaying it even by that week. And in that week before I left, I could tell that I needed a break. Like I needed to switch off.

And my advice to everyone is don't let it get to that point. You've got to take it just before that. And I was planning on doing that. was scheduled but because of commitments and priorities and important things i had to push that extra mile and sure i'm fine and i'm okay and i feel great but i don't think that that's sustainable and i think it was a different journey and and this is being honest too i don't think i'm a proponent of work life balance although it may appear that way. So this may actually be a perception thing. I think people may perceive that Jay believes in perfect work-life balance. And the truth is I don't. I believe in purpose. And purpose to me is being obsessed about what you care about and what's important to you. And so for me, what I do

is my purpose. And so I'm obsessed about it. I care about it. I love it. I breathe it. I live it. And when I was building, I was working 18 hours a day. I was, you know, a couple of those were meditations, sure, but then I was sleeping for six hours. But I was working 18 hours a day for two to three years straight, seven days a week. And I think the perception is often people may feel that, no, Jay, you live a perfectly balanced life. And I'm like, well, no, no, I haven't.

There's a different skill required to go upwards than stay, maintain, create momentum. It's a different gear that you're in all the time. And so today my life is far more disciplined in my health and wellness than it's ever been before but there have been periods of the years getting here that didn't look like that at all if that yeah i completely get that thank you for sharing that i think it's super valuable um my next one would be what you described at the tennis court which was some days especially

because i mean these are probably everything i say now is probably going to be an excuse but i'm going to say it anyway but i presented it as an excuse so hopefully that kind of is okay but i think i've geared my mind to care so much about the like being time efficient yes that in situations where things aren't moving with the efficiency that i would i demand from my business life yeah because you put your hand up here that I might because because of my expectations are of efficiency and speed when I encounter a situation maybe like the people that were bumbling around with the clipboard at the tennis court that you described trying to find your membership or whatever my expectation goes unmet frustration arrives and then I might compromise on the way that I behave yeah and that might mean being abrupt, being too forward with somebody

or being too harsh or lacking compassion in the way that I say something. People don't know this about me, but when I'm alone, I think about this. It's probably the number one thing I think about. I reflect on how I treated people that day. Yes. And there's been too many days in a row

where I've gone, you fucked that up again, Steve. Yeah. Be better tomorrow. And then I'll come into tomorrow, the expectation will go unmet. I'll become a person I don't want to be and i'll say to myself in my private time i say you fuck that up again yeah and i've been doing that too much for too long i think we all have i mean i talk about in my book i had this i had this moment same thing as you just said i uh this was a couple of years ago in la and i was traveling around in Ubers and going here and there and getting in or Lyft and calling one and jumping in and going on.

And I got in and I was on my phone and doing whatever. And then five minutes later, I realized we hadn't moved. And that's how consumed I was on my phone, whether I was scrolling or texting or emailing. And I said to the driver, I said, is everything okay? And he said, you driver, I said, is everything okay? And he said, you didn't say hello. And he said, I said a hello to you five minutes ago and you didn't say hello. And I just, it was such a like, I was late for my meeting. I was late for a big thing. I felt terrible. I felt so, so bad. And I was like, I really want people to connect with everyone as a human

I said I'm so sorry what's your name like like and then and he started driving and he wasn't trying to he wasn't even trying to be abrasive like some people say oh well that's a bit he's not doing this I actually don't think it's his fault at all I think he taught me such a valuable lesson because I was just kind of like oh yeah it's a service I booked it treating him like a robot treating him like a machine and, one day we'll have driverless cars and I won't have to say hello, sure. But treating a human in that way, I think that goes against everything I stand for is that I want us to become more human and I want us to not lose our humanity as technology advances. And I love technology and it's great, but let to not lose our humanity as technology advances and I love technology and it's great but

let's not lose our ability to have human connection which is what brings so much joy to our lives and so yeah I you know that that's one of those moments that I was like you know you're really trying to teach me a lesson here because yeah you know what this this whole back and forward if it's taught us anything it's that even people that you you presume to have the answers from the outside, in fact, maybe the correct answer is to understand one's own faults, understand we're all really, really imperfect, to be self-aware about those faults, and then make a commitment to being better every day. I think I'll die imperfect, but trying to be better. I don't think I'll die perfect. And I think, um, I think that is maybe, there'll probably be people that view the work that you do and say,

God, he's got it all figured out a hundred percent of things. And I don't, so I'm inadequate. Yes. I need to be Jay. And if I'm not Jay, then I'm inadequate. I'm morally wrong. My values are bad. I'm a bad person. So that's kind of, I love that. I'm so glad. I love the back and forth too. I, you know, for me, it's, it's always wonderful to talk about these things. And I think that's what our generation has changed in this space, because I think we did live at a time when gurus and guides and coaches were revered as flawless, perfect, and you never really saw the behind the scenes. And I think I always say to my team, like, I'm always trying to, I don't want, I don't even want that pressure. It's, it's pressure. And it actually stops you from being sincere and genuine and authentic.

And I feel that pressure sometimes. Like I feel that pressure when someone has a question and I need to rush off and I'm like, I want to answer it, but I also need to rush off. And I feel that pressure. And it's just, I've realized I don't want that pressure, like, because I'm not perfect and I don't want to try and pretend I am, or I don't want to have to live up to it because it will just let someone down. And it's really interesting because this was around, probably around 11 years ago now. And this was, I was mentoring before I became a monk. When I was a monk, I was a mentor and then I became a coach. And whenever I took on a mentee or a coach,

coaching client or anyone, one of the first things I'd say to them in our first meeting is, I just want you to know that I will let you down. I just want you to know that, that there will be something I do that upsets you, disappoints you or lets you down. If you're okay with that, let's get started.

Let's get going. And I saw the amount of people that walked out that door. Really? Yeah. There were people that left because they were expecting divinity and humanity and they were expecting perfection. And I'm really happy that they left because I would never have been able to live up to that. And I don't even want the pressure. And so I'm really clear with people even now, like I work with so many clients and that's one of the first things I'll say to them. And you see that the people that stay recognize that because they understand they have flaws and we all do. And I also took off the pressure, especially in coaching where

a lot of people think you can change their life. And as an immature coach or therapist, you may think you can change someone else's life. And the more I've coached and the more hours I've racked up with coaching, the more I've realized I can't change someone's life. I don't have what it takes to change someone's life. I don't have to say something profound every word I say and not everything I say is gonna be perfect

and incredible and insightful. And if I can let go of that, I actually might allow something beautiful to happen. Actually trying to do all those things, trying to say something profound every sentence, trying to magically solve someone's problems, trying to be perfect, all of these things actually block something beautiful from happening kind of interesting because it very much links to what you said about not not putting the expectation on the outcome you said that earlier i'm not going to try and change your life today but let's just focus in as you said earlier on the process of like what we can do today i guess part of my point

the first thing that came to mind there was we both write quotes and put them out on the internet and that kind of thing but i'm going to be completely honest when I write quotes on Instagram, I have no expectation that it's going to change the life of pretty much. I actually don't think even if people agree with it, most of them won't actually do anything, probably over 95, maybe 99% of them. But what does it take to have an impact on someone's life? Is it something that you can do as a coach or is it something inside them that is, you're just the oxygen to their flame? What is it? I believe that we need different language, different perspectives, different faces, different voices to connect with every person on the planet.

You're going to say the same thing in your own way, from your own mind and heart and your experience. And that's going to touch someone in a way that what I said can't. And then I'm going to say something in a context that's going to impact someone else that your words may not speak to because I've heard truth again and again and again and again and again. And then I hear it again last week and it clicks because I heard it from someone that said it in a way that speaks to the language of my soul, that speaks to the language of my mind and heart. And I think that's what's so fascinating about needing more voices and more faces and more people trying to serve. But when you talk about what creates change in coaching, there's four steps to making a change in someone's life. It goes theoretical, meaningful, practical, and applicable.

So most people, when they like a post on Instagram, or maybe they comment, that's them saying, theoretically, I agree with this and I understand it. I understand the theory that what you're saying is true and I like it and I agree with it theoretically. But that theoretical understanding doesn't create transformation. That theoretical understanding doesn't change someone's life. It may hit them here and hit them here. The next step actually is from here to here,

which is, is it meaningful to them? So I'll give an example. Let's say someone reads a quote, but they just lost their parent or they just lost a family member they love. I know I've had that happen to me in the last couple of years. I'm sure many people listening have. Now it's not theory. It's meaningful because it's hit your heart. It's gone from here to here. And you're like, okay, that really resonated. But again, that doesn't change your life

because now it's meaningful. It's emotional. It's internal but that hasn't changed in your action or your behavior So the next step is making that practical Okay, stephen wrote that amazing quote. How do I make that practical? Let me reflect This is the work that the coachee or the client needs to do. Okay, stephen presented it beautifully it connected with my head It hit my heart How do I actually make that practical in my day-to-day life i'm not steven i'm not jay how do i actually practically do that and then finally what's the part that i apply and take action on so as a receiver of wisdom and knowledge you have to do half that journey all you can do is the theoretical and the meaningful

and you may even help with practical tips and application but someone still has to sit there and go how do i do that unless you're sitting there with them one-on-one obviously and you can't do the the practical bit for someone else forever ever yeah you could maybe help them today or tomorrow totally not for a lifetime it's not going to be the fishing rod over the years i've tried to kind of simplify what happiness is and i sit here with my guests and mogada was great at that as well yeah of course he's unbelievable and kind of the concept of happiness what happiness is. And I sit here with my guests and Mogadat was great at that as well. Yeah, of course. He's unbelievable at kind of the concept of happiness. What are the kind of simple fundamentals that Jay Shetty requires in his life to live a happy life? I'm going to use the word happy. I know it's a shitty word in many respects, but I just want to use that as the word. Yeah. I'd say that I look at happiness as daily habits and then deeper purpose. So there's things you can do daily that keep that happiness kind of moving and feel it's growing. And then

there's almost the objective, the compass, the reason why you live and why you exist. And for me, it's been really clear that finding your passion and using it in the service of others is what creates the greatest, deepest happiness. When you find what you love, what you excel at, what you're brilliant at, and then you can actually use that to improve people's lives. And you can use that to improve people's lives and you can use that skill, that passion, that energy to make a difference in someone's life, there is no better feeling than that. And what I find is I meet a lot of people who've mastered their passion, but not for service. They mastered it for business. They mastered it for money. They mastered it it for success and they have all of that but they haven't got the service element in their life they don't understand how to use their passion

for a purpose and so they feel unequipped and then I know lots of people who are trying to serve or trying to make a difference or trying to do charity work they're trying to do all this good work and they feel good about it but they still don't feel fulfilled because they're missing what is my special role? Like what's my position? What's my offering in this space? You kind of get lost after a while. do that for others to improve their lives, it makes them happy. So if you can do what makes you happy and do it for others and it makes them happy, that's going to give you happiness. And I have tested that principle time and time again with clients, with friends, with family, with myself, and I've seen it to be true again and again and again. But that's that bigger happiness piece. Let's go to the daily habits, like the daily stuff. And I want to try and avoid the stuff that I think people have heard and people have probably come across before in many

different places. Maybe I've spoken about them, maybe other people have. But one of the biggest ones for me is I read a book a few years ago about flow state. And that book really transformed how I felt about things. And it talks about how being in flow is the intersection where your skills and your challenge match. So if your skills are higher than your challenge, you'll feel bored, lethargic, and maybe feel stuck. But if your challenge is greater than your skills, you feel overwhelmed, potentially depressed, and and disconnected and disappointed. So most of us are living in one of those discrepancies. And I find on a daily basis, I'm playing around with that equation for happiness, because that flow state of when you

know you have a skill and your challenge is met, and even if you lose, you still get such a joy out of it because you know that you're still working in the right direction. And I think that is an underplayed part of happiness because it doesn't sound like something predictable or obvious because people go, well, that's achievement, that's ambition. It's actually not. It's just saying for most people, it's either or. Their challenges are greater than their skill or their skills greater than their challenge. So I would ask everyone to say Look at your life Do you need to improve your skills? Or do you need to broaden your challenge?

Is this a year of expanding your challenges? Or is this a year of broadening your skills? And I promise you If you start with that You're going to get so busy and active Changing one of those That happiness is going to naturally flow This comes into a little model I created of

creating happiness for my year. And that one sits in one of them. So I'll explain which one it's in. I believe that to create happiness day to day in one year, in one month, in a week, you have to have three things. You have to learn something every year. You have to launch something every year. And you have to love something every year. And that's how I've lived for the last three to five years. Every year I'm learning something. Every year I'm launching something.

And every year I'm loving something. And I'll give you an example. So when I talk about flow state, that comes into the idea of raising your challenge is like launching something. The reason why launching something creates happiness is because it creates a feeling of nervousness. It creates a feeling of butterflies, creates a feeling of excitement.

Like, I don't know what's gonna happen. We all need a feeling of surprise in life. We all need that feeling of, I don't know. The sense of the unknown can actually cause happiness and so launching something is such a powerful way and i think too many people will think for five years and think for 10 years and maybe launch one thing in their whole life and me and you have both i mean i'd love to i can't wait to interview on my podcast but i have launched so much stuff that has failed. We're going to get into that. Yeah. But that launch creates so much joy. It

creates so much happiness. So launch something and we can dive into that. Then there's learn something, which is what we just talked about. Learning is skills. So that's the, that's the idea of creating your flow state by saying, what skill do I want to learn? And every year I pick a skill and it's usually based on what I want to launch the next year so i'll go okay i need to learn podcasting so 2018 i studied podcasting 2019 we launched the podcast uh so what you learn turns in what to what you launch and what you launch turns into what you love and what we try and do is we try and do it the other way around we try and love something before we learn and launch it doesn't make sense you've got to learn about something first

and then you can fall in love with it. You can't love something and then learn about it. You can, but it doesn't always work that way. So I try and plan my years out in that way. I go, what am I going to learn? What am I going to launch? And what am I going to love? So yeah, I think that's how I try and create happiness

on a daily, weekly, monthly basis without diving into things like gratitude and meditation, which are huge parts of my daily happiness. But I think those are ideas that are out there and that we've talked about before probably. And you've launched a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff. And we're going to talk a little bit about some of those things that you've launched. I mean, you've got your genius community, which has been going for a long time now. Brilliant, a really brilliant business and really a standout business in this whole industry in terms of the way you executed it. And the, I mean, even the design of the programs. And I mean, I remember going on the website and trying to, I thinking to myself, would I be able to make something as

quality as this in the future? And sort of modeling myself on that you've got your certification school for coaches as well you've launched your tea business and there's also uh a really i guess this is a bit of an exclusive your partnership with calm the mindfulness meditation app and i think they also call themselves a sleep app as well now i think that's a more modern um description of. So why did you partner with Calm? So Michael and I, Michael's one of the co-founders of Calm. He's been on this podcast.

Yes, exactly. Yes. And we got introduced probably around four years ago now. And he came over for lunch to my place. We were hanging out, connecting, getting to know each other. He was being told that he should really connect with me and i was being told i should connect with him and finally we got together so we had lunch at my home my wife made us this incredible lunch uh and we sat down and he brought

brought a friend and i had a couple of people there and we just hung out and in that meeting i met someone who i really believed was not trying to build an app. And I met someone who was not trying to build a platform. And I met someone who was not trying to build technology. He was trying to build an experience. He was trying to build a journey for people to go on. He was trying to build a practical daily habit for each and every single person in the world. And that was really beautiful for me to hear because I'd been an admirer of Calm when it first started out. And I first heard about it probably eight years before we met. And I'd been seeing what they were doing and creating and to meet the person behind it. And for them to be as genuine, sincere and wonderful as Michael is you've met him so you know what he's like I was really blown away by that I was just blown away by that vision and having spent hours and years meditating in the monastery and then meditating afterwards I've always wanted to

share meditation at scale with the world I think it's a habit that 80 to 90% of the world's most healthy, wealthy, and successful people live by. So if we could make it accessible, practical, and relevant to each and every person's daily life, can you imagine the transformation that they'll have? And I've experienced that as a monk. I saw it for years and years and years. i've seen it last year during the pandemic i went live for 20 days on

instagram and taught meditation just to everyone and anyone because i felt quite inadequate i was like i'm not a frontline worker i can't save lives i'm not a delivery person i'm not helping people with their groceries and their food i was like what, what can I offer? And I thought, well, maybe if people can have a minute of peace and calm, then that might be worth it. And across 40 days, I ended up doing 40 instead of 20. Across 40 days, we had 20 million people tune in. And it was just so mind-blowing to me. And most of the people were saying

they'd never meditated before. And I thought to myself how beautiful that was. And one of the biggest pieces of feedback I get from my audience is, well, Jay, we want to meditate with you every day. Why can't we keep doing that? And I was like, wow, those 40 days of live meditations were really intense and a lot of work went into them. So I wanted a home for where I could share meditation every single day, a new piece of meditation insight that each and every single person could build a daily habit every day every day what of seven minutes a day you're going to do seven minutes a day every day seven minutes a day every day wow five days a week five days a

week not weekends you get days off everyone gets two days off you don't have to meditate on the weekends you can sleep in but you're gonna you've recorded a meditation in calm for 365 we haven't recorded all of them we haven't recorded all of them because they're fresh and they're moving and they're based on my weekly inspiration so we record them monthly nice so we record them monthly so i've recorded for the next month ahead because i have to because everyone's going to need them but i'm basing it on like what my inspiration is that week and what my day is that week but but it's a seven minute meditation. And I truly believe that everyone can find seven minutes. And if everyone could just find seven minutes in their day, in their calendar, as I said, that they put aside for themselves, I believe in those seven minutes, everyone could build a

beautiful habit. Now, the difference with our meditation is that the meditations we've created, we believe they're meditations that inspire action. So all of them are not just sitting there on your own with yourself breathing, they're interconnected with a change in your daily behavior. So each and every single one of them have a takeaway, have an insight that you can go and apply no matter what you do across the world. So the goal is where meditation meets action,

where meditation can actually help you change how you feel that day through your real life and so why i chose calm was i wanted a home i wanted to work with michael and the team who i just believe are dreaming beautifully about how to bring meditation to the world and so sincerely and genuinely care about each and every person. And I just love how, I would say I love how universally they approach meditation. I think they approach meditation in this universal, expansive, abundant mindset way, which makes story be a part of meditation,

which makes visualization be a part of meditation. And that's how I was trained in meditation as a monk. So it feels very philosophically aligned as well. You know, you've done so much. And really, from what I observed even, you really started in 2000, I'd say the sort of external social media content journey started in 2016.

Yes, yes. That is mad. That is mad. You've gone from 2016, making your first content to in 2022 now just, and you're this global household name as it relates to content, self-improvement, meditation, all of these topics, right? That's a short period of time. When you look back and you try and connect the dots, as Steve Jobs often did about how Apple came to be in the little moments and the little things, whether it was a moment of good fortune or whether it was something that you have spotted in hindsight in your character. Why was Jay Shetty successful in such a short period of time in such a big way?

Give me the honest, practical answer. I don't want any. I wonder why. Why were you successful so i'm gonna give you the i'm gonna give you my monk answer and then i'm gonna give the media answer so and and i live by both right like you have to you have to see things as both and that's why i love my my monk answer is i was really fortunate to meet incredible people when i was young i met a few people that absolutely transformed my life.

I'm eternally indebted to them, grateful to them, and I owe it all to them. And so I give all my success to them, you know, without meeting those amazing mentors and those phenomenal thought leaders and thinkers who are not famous, who are not known, who are not present, like they're not, they're not in the social media world.

They're not big names or whatever. Those people, you know, those people, if I never met them, none of this would have happened. I can see the emotion in your face when you say this. Yeah, I just, I really, you know, we skipped it earlier, but I just feel like the gratitude that I have for people who saw potential in me when I didn't see it in myself. That is just the greatest gift you can give to someone. Like I today have self-awareness and I

have confidence and I know who I am. And I, I wasn't always like that. Like there were tons of years where I was insecure and, you know, I was bullied for being overweight and I was bullied for being the only Indian at school. And there was so much like baggage to do with just my body, my language I used and all this kind of stuff. And to have someone notice that you may have something, I mean, you've had that. And that is just, you like honor that person for the rest of your life. And the best thing is those people don't even want it. So, you know, the best thing about all of this is the people there are not going, oh yeah, we did that. They're actually saying, no, no, no, it's not us. Like it's you. And I think that's the beauty of that. So I have to say that it's important that I share that answer, not because I'm trying to give a more

strategic answer, but I think it's important because it is a big part of it. And so that would be the monks that I met. It would be the coaches that I met, the guides that I met. Looking at it from a very practical strategic standpoint, shifting now, my parents forced me to go to public speaking and drama school when I was 11 years old. And I really didn't want to go because I was shy, I was unconfident, I was insecure about being on stage or being in a public setting. I actually loved acting growing up. I really enjoyed acting and doing theater and things like that where I was playing another character. But being myself on stage, that was the last thing I wanted to do. And my parents saw that and they saw that as something that I should work on. So they forced me and my school to enroll me in a public speaking course. So from the age of 11 through to the age of 18,

for three hours a day, three days a week, so nine hours a week for seven years, I went to public speaking school. For seven years of my life, I went to public speaking school. So when I look back at my ability to communicate, my ability to understand ideas, and by the way, public speaking school is examination based too. So we had exams where they would give you a topic 15 minutes before. You have 15 minutes to research a topic

from the books in the room that they give you because there was no smartphone at the time when we were 11, 12 years old. And you'd have to create a speech in 15 minutes about that subject

from the books that were in the room. You had to read from a book that you'd never read before. They'd pick a random page and they'd ask you to read it out. So the examination of a public, and this was at the London Academy of Music, Drama and Arts, it's called Lambda. And that's where I studied for seven years. So that's a very strategic skill

set that I had the time to develop thanks to my parents, you know, like without my parents, none of that would have ever happened. And I think that's a big part of why people hopefully appreciate how I communicate ideas, because I've spent a lot of time understanding communication. But when I was 18, I had nothing to talk about. So even though I had all these tools and skills, I didn't really use them because I didn't care about anything. So sure, I gave a good presentation at university and work experience and an internship, but it was never something that brought me to life. And so then when I met the monks and I got an opportunity to study the Vedas, which are 5,000 years old.

And again, we were put through rigorous study. We sat down, we had to learn verses. We had to analyze purports, commentaries on ancient scriptures. We had to do comparative analysis of religions and tradition. Like when I was a monk, we were massively trained in philosophical analysis.

And that to me gave me a real strength and confidence in these ideas so some of the ideas i present today that may sound simple they're based on these really ancient deep truths that i've had the time to grapple with with the greats who really understand them so that to me is a big benefit i've had where I've had three years of complete dedication to studying philosophy and not just studying the intellectual areas but the practical and the applicable areas as well so thanks to my monk teachers who gave me that and then when I went to Accenture where people were like Jay you're just a monk why did you go to Accenture I had to pay the bills I couldn't rely on my parents. And, you know, my parents are not wealthy

that they could pay my way through life. And I moved back into their, I moved back into my childhood bedroom when I was 26, living with my parents with 25,000, 18,000 pounds worth of debt. And just feeling that, you know, I was like, what do I do now? And I applied to 40 companies that would

have given me a job. I'm a first-class honors degree student. I'm a straight A student. And I was rejected from 40 companies because surprise, surprise, no one wanted to hire a monk. So everyone goes, what are your transferable skills? Sitting quietly and sitting on the floor like no one needs that. So 40 companies say no to me. Accenture finally give me a shot. And I meet someone called Thomas Power. And Thomas Power, I don't know if you ever met him actually. He's London based. He started up like an early LinkedIn kind of version called Academy. And he was, he's very networked in London in the business space. Definitely want to introduce you guys. He's

awesome. And he was brought in by Accenture to train us in social media and train us in this new wave of this new thing that was happening. And it's really interesting because we've talked about it, me and him many times. I'm going to have him on my podcast soon. And I realized, I was like, you didn't really teach me much about social media, but you really taught me about breaking my mindset. And he would always repeat Napoleon Hill, you become what you think about. And he'd always tell me that. He'd be like, keep saying that to yourself. And I'd keep saying that to myself. You become what you think about.

You become what you think about. And then I was like, oh, what am I thinking about? I'm not thinking about anything. So what am I going to become? Nothing. And it was just really interesting. And so he would give me these little tools and little things to play with.

He had another one called ORS, which he would say that successful people have to be open, random, and supportive. And he'd say that most unsuccessful people are closed, selective, and controlling, CSC. And he'd say that most unsuccessful people are closed selective and controlling csc and he was saying that when you live in a csc mindset you limit your growth but when you live in an ors mindset open random and supportive you expand your growth so he would encourage me to be open with strangers on twitter he'd encourage me to be open with random people

with me at a conference and he was just training me in behaviors and mindsets it wasn't like how to post and what time to post and this is how you make it wasn't how to make something go viral like that wasn't it it was how to engage how to push your comfort zone how to challenge your fear why are you so uncomfortable to walk up to that person and tweet them you know all of those kind of things and i saw that my mind just became just open to the idea. So he would always tell me, you're an entrepreneur. I'd be like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. I'm meant to work for someone. And so he would keep pushing me until I'd get really angry with him. I'm like, you don't even know who I am. Only for me to realize he saw something in me that I never saw. And then I'd say from there on, that's kind of what gets me to the beginning of it. I would say that for 10 years before 2016,

I was making content and delivering it in small venues in London. So I had an event in London at university called Think Out Loud. Every single week, I would design a poster on Photoshop. I taught myself Photoshop and I would make a poster and I would talk about a movie from a philosophical psychological and spiritual perspective so i'd take a movie like inception and i'd break it down and 10 students would come every week and then i teach meditation which i'd learn from the monks and then 20 students would come and then by the time i finished university

100 people came every single week to hear me break down and this was no followers the events were free i was preparing for free doing everything for free and. And I loved it. And I got so much joy. And then afterwards, when I was at Accenture, I ran an event in London called Conscious Living. And it was just a, it was an event, which was probably like five pound on a Friday night. And again, I was teaching philosophy, spirituality, and meditation. And I was lucky if five people turned up. It wasn't university anymore where you could go and deck the halls with flyers and posters and the common room and the community area. So we'd get like five to 10 people every Friday night, paying five to 10 quid just for

the food that we gave and the posters that we made just to cover the costs. So for 10 years before I ever made a piece of content online, I've practiced, rehearsed, experimented, grappled, challenged these ideas again and again and again and again and again without any followers, without any money and without anything else coming from it, apart from the fact that I love it. I love the idea of reading a book and trying to make it relevant. So I would say that the biggest reason is because I've done this for 10 years offline before I ever went online. So I've been doing it for like 16 years and that doesn't count the 11 year old public speaking classes. It's really, there's something really beautiful about that because it, I think it gives them a sense of, it's incredibly

inspiring, but it also gives a sense of peace to people who are at a stage in their journey where they're sat on the phones in a call center selling, i don't know double glazing like i was and they're thinking um this is a waste of time they're thinking picking up this phone and trying to persuade margaret to buy some windows is a waste of time and it's not serving my where i want to go and it's only in hindsight when you speak to people like yourself or you hear about steve jobs journey or really anybody that sits here on this podcast you yeah like so those are some of the most unbelievably formative and most pivotal experiences as it relates to the thing you will go on to do and you never know when that's going to happen right you never know when opportunity is going to meet preparation in your

life totally and that also speaks to something you said earlier which is it's about the mindset you have when you're doing those things and if you believe i think if you believe that sitting on that phone is going to be the rest of your life forever you're increasing the chances of that being the case and i'm not putting down people that do call center jobs it's actually one of my one of my favorite and the job i did the longest um but i just think that's such an important mindset shift that can inspire and not demotive it yeah i think we have to look at our life as a series of things that add up each other rather than like, this is a waste, this is a waste, and that's not a waste. And by the way, you said call center, that sparked a memory. I had a internship when I was 16 years old at the business design center in Angel. And I was working for a company called Upper Street Events that sold event space to

companies for these big exhibitions and events that happen in the venue. And I remember at 16 having to call up Nissan, BMW, VW, Audi, Vauxhall, et cetera, because they were doing a big car exhibition. Now, by the way, I was a 16 year old kid who didn't really know what I was doing, but the people trained me really well. And I was cold calling. And I completely agree with you. I think that gave me so much confidence to be able to pick up the phone to anyone and everyone, to tweet anyone and everyone, to DM anyone and everyone. By the way, Cristiano Ronaldo has the longest list of DMs from me that he's never seen. Right? He has the longest list of DMs from me that he's never seen, but I'm hoping that one day he's gonna see them and i'm gonna get to interview him and it's the

idea of like i don't i'm not worried if he doesn't see them i'm not upset if one day he sees 30 dms from me because i know that that's what it takes and i'm okay with that there's no ego that i'm so happy if cristiano ronaldo opened it up and saw oh this guy's desperate i would take that all day because i think he's a i think he has a phenomenal mind and i would love to sit down with him what did you lose what did you lose right but that comes from when you're cold calling in the call center you learn that mindset of what did i lose if this person said no and there's 300 people on this list and that person might be the one that wants it now and that person might come back around and

you get to develop those skills. So I just hope that wherever you are listening to this right now, wherever you're watching it, you just take a moment to realize that that place can teach you everything you need to know about your purpose. And if you just approach it in that way, you're gonna walk to work with a pep in your step

and like this energy that's gonna be so electric and so magnetic that everyone's gonna know what's going on with with you and all it is is that you're looking at life as an addition rather than a subtraction and you'll receive in a completely different way right yeah we have a long-standing tradition on this podcast um where the previous guest writes a question for the next guest in the diary that's genius i love that it's a fairly new edition it's beautiful i love it what we look the reason why we did it and i've never really explained this is we want to basically connect the the episodes together and the guests together in some way and doing that by a question written in the diary is our way um who came up with that great idea it's brilliant it's absolutely fantastic i'm

going to tell my team i'm not happy with my team from what we're talking it's funny because it messaged my team it's funny because this question is actually what i think i asked you already so but you can ask me another one if you want you can pick a pick a random one i can just make one up no um so the question asked what is your definition of true success is that there are four important decisions we make in our life. And if you can make every decision intentionally with the desire to learn and serve, then that's all you can do. So the four most important decisions we make in our life are, how do I feel about myself? What do I do for money? Who do I give my love to?

And how do i serve others and if you spend your life focusing on intentionally making those choices then your life is a success because all you can do is try to live intentionally and try to hope that it helps other people amen listen jay i can't thank you enough for coming here and doing this. I know you are very in demand, very, very, very successful man who's only in the UK for a short period of time. So it was a true honor that you would come here and sit with me and have this conversation. For me, you've been a real role model in many, many ways. And you know, you've led the way in the content, the self-development, the helping people change their lives domain, especially as someone that

comes from the same country as me for the longest time. So I've always looked, looked to you for the last, I don't know, seven years since I've, I've started doing this. And I think your success has propelled and enabled mine from a point of inspiration, but also from giving me a blueprint on how to serve. So I've never got to say that to you before, but I really want to say thank you because that's, um, you know, you've helped, you're probably the reason I get to help people as well in my own way. So that means, you know, it means a ton to me thank you because that's um you know you've helped you're probably the reason i get to help people as well in my own way so that means you know it means a ton to me that you'd come here and sit with me and uh yeah it's just thank you that is probably one of the most humbling things anyone's ever said to me because i'm a huge fan of the podcast i think you do an incredible job

and i think you have some amazing guests guests that i've never sat down with or you know may not be in my rate my radar or radius and you've shared things with them that have just been phenomenal and so when i'm listening and watching i want to get my haircut yeah i was talking to my um hairdresser about you i was like oh i'm going this podcast tomorrow and and you know and he and he listens to you as well and knows who you are and and i was just like yeah and the easiest thing that came back to me was just yeah steven's a really nice guy like he's really down to earth he He's really humble. And I find that phenomenal because of your age,

because of what you've achieved. I've never felt like even a drop of ego around you. And whether that's in your online presence, whether that's when we met in New York, whether that's on Twitter all those years ago, whether it's today, before we were on cameras. And I really appreciate that. I think as monks, we were trained

that the most admirable quality in a human is humility. Like that was seen as like the, if we could say that in the material world, the highest thing about someone is whatever it is, the currency in monk life was humility and so when I meet people who have humility I really they're like my they're like the people that I get drawn to the most and and you just have it in bags full and I I just think you're gonna go off and do even more incredible

successful phenomenal things for the world and I'm excited to watch I'm excited to be a fan a friend and hopefully we get to do stuff together too but uh this was beautiful man thank you so much thank you thank you for having me i wanted to come on this is beautiful this is brilliant i hope we hope we do it more and i can't wait to have you on i'm very excited now that you're coming to l.a we're gonna have you on it's gonna be amazing Thank you.