The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Jimmy Fallon: I Didn't Expect It To Be This Brutal! Nothing Worked. I Was Starving & Had A Suicide Pact With Myself!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Get unlimited grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Meal prep delivered. Snacks delivered. Fresh fruit delivered. Grocery delivery on repeat for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at PCExpress.ca. I was just breaking down mentally of like, what have I done? I don't know what else to do with my life.

Starting point is 00:00:22 I think I wrote a letter to my best friend, like, I'm losing it, dude. What did it say? It's a deep one. Jesus. Give me power! Jimmy, I was reading through your business portfolio, and it's extremely extensive. You founded a production company, a ride, shoes. You got the ice cream, the tonight dough.

Starting point is 00:00:42 But the through line here is about making people happy. I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid. And in your eighth grade class, you were voted most likely to replace David Letterman on the late night show. Is that crazy? Because I ended up doing that. It does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow.

Starting point is 00:00:56 Well, I was beyond obsessed. I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live. So I worked at the improv, where I think the paycheck was $7.25. You didn't really eat much. I would turn cardboard boxes on the street into tables. It's tough. It's a lot of rejection.

Starting point is 00:01:10 But the stage time was priceless. And eventually you had a phone call. I got an audition for Saturday Night Live. This was my big opportunity. I remember going on stage. I did my first impression, and I blew it. That was probably my lowest moment. It was very depressing

Starting point is 00:01:25 It said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25, I was gonna kill myself Did you mean that? Yeah, but I just knew that I would be answering that was going to happen and against all odds I did it. How old were you? 23 so crazy Jimmy I found some photos. Can you tell me about this one? Oh my god crazy. Jimmy, I found some photos. Can you tell me about this one? Oh my god. Wow. Quick one before we get back to this episode, just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us

Starting point is 00:02:02 and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show

Starting point is 00:02:23 as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guests that you want I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode. Jimmy, what do I need to know about you to understand the man that you are? And when I ask that question, I'm specifically trying to understand your earliest context. Because you're in many respects an anomaly, but you're an anomaly that was very, very clear on where you wanted to go in your life from a shockingly young age.

Starting point is 00:02:59 So I'm wondering what gave you such clarity and what the context was that made you the unique way that you are? Gosh, that's a great question. That's gonna be the whole show right here because I wanna find out. Maybe entertaining or being funny is probably, or wanting to satisfy people. I think, wanting to please people. I've always wanted to please people since I think, you know, wanting to please people?

Starting point is 00:03:25 I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid. Like, I don't know if it was my parents or my grandparents, or I wanted to make people feel good and give everyone. If I'm at a party, I want to make sure it's the best party, you know, and I'm giving everything. I want to make sure it's so pleasing or appeasing, one of those words. But I think I've always wanted to do that.

Starting point is 00:03:49 And that's kind of what I do now. Do you have an earliest memory of that behavior? I think wanting to do good in, I don't know, sports maybe, or in grade school. I remember I was an altar boy. So I was at one point, I'm like, I wanna be a priest. Yeah, which I thought, I think I'd be a pretty good priest. I think it'd be funny.

Starting point is 00:04:16 You know, I could have good delivery. Someone said to me once, they said, maybe you got your first taste of wanting to be an entertainer from being an altar boy, because you're up on stage, kind of, technically, and there's an audience, and you're up kind of performing. I mean, walking around, and you're wearing an outfit, kind of, you know, wearing costume. And, you know, so it's kind of theater in a weird way.

Starting point is 00:04:42 But I remember just kind of wanting to do good for like be like make my parents proud or my grandparents proud or there was a kind of I mean it all happened so fast that I don't I don't I don't have problems with it or or go back to it and go like oh that was traumatic you know I just think that I was always like a people pleaser. Your parents were very strict. Yeah, very Catholic, very strict. No cursing, no sex, you know, very Catholic, you know, no dirty words. I would listen to comedy albums, you know, and my dad would take a key and scratch the

Starting point is 00:05:24 curse words out of the record. He would find where the dirty word wasn't stopping and scratch it out of the record so I wouldn't hear it. So I would hear Rodney Dangerfield and it would skip to the end of the joke. I was like, well, I'll tell you, and then cut to people clapping and laughing. I didn't even know what the joke was. I mean, it kind of ruined it. I go, why are they laughing? But I think quite, but he would, my dad would tape music videos. You know, we'd have these shows in America, you know, called like USA Night Flight or Friday Night Videos.

Starting point is 00:05:54 And he taped these music videos. He would watch them on Saturdays and go tape to tape of what videos we could see that wasn't offensive at all or sexually inappropriate or something too advanced for us or something. What was he like as a man? Funny. Life at the party. Hard working.

Starting point is 00:06:15 Very Brooklyn, very New York. He sang in a doo-wop group on the street corner. So he would go, not professionally, but just that was one of the things he did in high school. And then he also fought in gangs, like not just beat each other up gangs. Like, I don't think anyone killed each other. But this was back in the 50s, where they just would one guy street corner would fight another street corner. And they get together and just have a fistfight or something. Tough guy. He's a tough guy. Yeah. Emotional?

Starting point is 00:06:47 No, not emotional. I've never seen my dad cry or any of that stuff. Affectionate? Yeah. I mean, I got I love yous and hugs and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, not overly, not the way I think I am. I'm hugging my kids every single day

Starting point is 00:07:09 and telling them how proud I am of them and saying I love you and they say I love you back. And I'm overly where I didn't have that. I think it was just, my mom was more that. And I think that was kind of put on my mom as you're the emotional, you hug the kids and love them. And he was just more like, yep, I love you. That's great.

Starting point is 00:07:33 He was rooting for me always. But a little harsh, but not crazy harsh. Nothing that crazy. Gloria, your mother. Yeah, Gloria's my mom, yeah. Sadly passed away. Missed my mom. My mom's name is Gloria, my sister's name is Gloria. My dad's name is Jim and I'm named Jim. A very unoriginal pair. Couldn't come up with any other name. Like those are the perfect names for you. But yeah, my mom was my, she rooted for me.

Starting point is 00:08:13 That was my number one fan. I was the golden child in her head. You know, like whatever I did, she was like, that's my kid, that's my, oh my God. You're fantastic, you gotta go, you're great. And she would always root me out. Whatever it is I did, she would laugh. And I miss her not being around,

Starting point is 00:08:33 because I would talk to her every day, sometimes multiple times a day, and talk about Siren Live. And she'd watch the show, and she'd sketch it so that it was funny. I mean, I would, she was part of my life and I think part of what built my confidence. Even as an adult?

Starting point is 00:08:51 Yeah, completely. You talked to her almost daily as an adult? Yeah, I would call her and just go, what's going on? You know, she loved to talk. That was her, she was great at that. She had one of those phones that had the phone cords that was so stretched out from walking all around the house and talking all day, that the phone cord probably was two miles long. I mean, it was a pile of spaghetti on the floor.

Starting point is 00:09:14 I'm like, it's so, I go, gosh, you should get a cordless phone. You won't even believe how your life changes. You can go anywhere, mom. But she loved to walk around and talk, so she could talk all day long. But then she would call me and say like, I saw you on TV, or you know, if she saw,

Starting point is 00:09:30 I go, I know mom, I'm on that show. She was like, you're on Ellen today. I go, I know, mom, I was there. I was, that was me, I was on it, you know. But she was my number one fan and loved bits that I would do and she was one of the most interesting people ever. And like, both of them together are kind of cartoon characters. And by the end, they both kind of couldn't really

Starting point is 00:09:56 hear each other. It was a lot of like, what? And my dad would go, huh? I said, what? Huh? What? Huh? And they'd just say, what, huh, until I interrupted.

Starting point is 00:10:06 Stop. Just stop talking. Because let's just move on. You can't hear each other. This is insane. But I wish I could give you the best story of what my mom was like. I remember going home to the house where I grew up

Starting point is 00:10:20 in Saugerties, New York, after I was on Siren Live, or maybe even during. And I came home, and mom was like, after I was on Sarenet Live, or maybe during. And I came home and mom's like, let's go out to dinner. And I go, okay. I go, I don't really need to. I live in Manhattan, some of the best restaurants. I come home because I want home cooked meals. But I go, sure.

Starting point is 00:10:39 I go, but just don't make a big deal. Don't embarrass me. She's like, I'm not gonna embarrass you, I'm not. I go, okay, let's go. So we go out to this restaurant and we sit in and we sit down and she goes, I'm kind of getting a draft. I go, no, no, no, we're not moving. We're not making a big deal.

Starting point is 00:10:53 Remember, that's the deal. We're just not making a scene. We're having dinner. Like you said, we're gonna go out, okay, fine. So we're sitting there and she goes, let's order. I go, you're right. And she goes, I'll have this. My dad's like, I'll have a steak. And I go, she goes, I's order. I go, you're great. And she goes, I'll have this. My dad's like, I'll have steak.

Starting point is 00:11:05 And I go, she goes, I'll have the lamb chops or something. I go, great. So we're waiting and they come over with my dad and my meal, but they forget my mom's meal. They go, you know, we didn't put in the lamb. She's like, okay. So we can't really. So she goes, thank you.

Starting point is 00:11:21 As they leave, she goes, I'm not gonna eat. I go, you can't do that because you're gonna make a scene. You have to eat the lettuce. She goes, no'm not gonna eat. I go, you can't do that, because you gotta make a scene. You have to eat the lettuce. She goes, no, I'm fine, I don't care. I go, please don't make a big deal. She goes, I'm not making a big deal, just where's my thing?

Starting point is 00:11:32 I ordered it. I'm like, I go, don't make a big deal. Finally, they bring over this lamb thing. After this whole thing, I go, great, just eat it. She's like, okay. So she's eating out of spite, and she takes the first bite, and she goes. And I go, oh, oh my God, she's eating out of spite and she takes the first bite and she goes And I go oh, oh my god, she's not joking and she's like pointing out of the throat and I go, oh my god

Starting point is 00:11:52 so my dad Sticks his finger down my mom's throat and he's like and she's like Making these noises and I go. Oh, this is a nightmare. And then some woman runs over she goes. I'm a nurse I'm a nurse, I'm a nurse. And knocking over tables and knocking everything over and grabs my mom and picks up my mom and gives her the Heimlich. And my mom is making a noise

Starting point is 00:12:12 that I've never heard anyone ever. She was making, I've never heard my mom make this. She was going like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And then she pulled it and then a lamb ball flew out of my mom's mouth and hit the wall. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,. And we're getting out of here. My dad was like,

Starting point is 00:12:45 that lady should have been in her own business. I go, what? Maybe it was mom's time to go. You know? You know? But it was, they were that weird and funny where they're like odd people, but always making jokes. But that was so, and it was embarrassing.

Starting point is 00:13:01 But you know, I remember telling that story, you know, and she had a party and she would love to hear it because that was just very her. And you know, she just did stuff like that where you're just like, oh, this can't be real. A lot of that. Of both your parents, who are you trying to please the most, do you think?

Starting point is 00:13:20 Who are you waiting for the well done from the most? God, that's a great question. I would say probably my mom. I think she, I would like to make her laugh, you know, because she had a great laugh. They both did. But I think of both of them, I think my mom would be the one because I was like, she was a fan of mine. So it's almost like going like, do you like my new song? Do you like the second record? If you're a fan of the Beatles, you know, do you like Sgt. Pepper? You know, and she would be like, I like it, I like this, you know, better.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Because I could tell that she's a fan of mine. So she's like, oh, I like this new thing you're doing, or I like the song you did. You know, I think that was great,'re doing, or I like the song you did. I think that was great because I could get feedback from someone I could tell was kind of studying what I was doing. For me, being a comedian and being comedic is so, so... I say this with the most amount of respect, but it's so strange because it's such a big risk and it's such a unique career to pursue

Starting point is 00:14:27 with very little promise of financial return or any real notoriety. Like when I spoke to Jimmy Carr and other comedians that I've interviewed, there's something a little bit... Say it. Ha ha ha! Crazy. Crazy. Mental, yeah. Crazy about it. Crazy. Crazy. Mental.

Starting point is 00:14:46 Crazy about it. You know, I never, and I still to this day, I don't care about money. I never cared about money. I never did anything for, I just don't do it. I never did it for money. And I always just, I worked because I liked working. You know, I worked since I was 13 because I enjoyed, I guess, getting a paycheck and paying for things.

Starting point is 00:15:11 I don't know what things I was paying for. I was 13 years old. But I liked the idea of going into work and working nine to five day and doing overtime. I looked forward to working wherever it was. And maybe it was because I was trying to be my dad, because he would go to work in the mornings and then I would see him at night when he came home.

Starting point is 00:15:33 But I remember just not caring about money. And my mom, I would always put our laundry in the laundry basket or wherever. And my mom would do laundry. She'd be like, Jimmy, I found $5 in your jeans and I go okay yeah yeah she goes thanks she goes next time I'm going to keep it and I go do it I could care less what am I going to do I take she's like you know and then my dad's like you got to start caring about money and I go I don't I don't I don't think I ever will I just don't it never was a thing for me I

Starting point is 00:16:03 never cared about oh I got the most or I got paid blah, blah, blah. I just loved the experience of it all. The experience of... Work. Any work or... Any work. It led to comedy as well as when I did comedy shows. When you worked at the Improv in LA, which is a great comedy club in Los Angeles on Melrose Avenue, you would go up and I think the paycheck was $7.25.

Starting point is 00:16:32 That's what you get paid total. There's no way you could do that for the money. Because I mean, it's worthless. What's $7 gonna do for you? But it was the getting on stage, the stage time that was priceless, and building an act, and trying to get a persona and build a brand and build a character and work in your act that could lead to a bigger act or a Saturday night gig.

Starting point is 00:16:55 A Saturday night gig paid maybe $20 a gig and that was kind of okay money. And they would also feed you on a Saturday. So which is great because I had no food. I was just like living there going like, oh, I got to $7, I can buy some things, but you didn't really eat much. Saturday they would feed you and I remember my first Saturday gig at the Improv.

Starting point is 00:17:22 I go in, it's a big deal. And I'm brand new, probably out in LA, maybe six months or something. And I worked my way, you have to do any week night, any time they call you have to be up there. And so I did that and I put my dues in for that and showed up. I did pretty well, I had a good 10 minute act. And Saturday night gig and I get there and I see Jerry Seinfeld in the restaurant. I go, and I go out to the

Starting point is 00:17:46 payphone and I call my parents 1-800-Collect. Do you know what that is? Yeah, at least just about. Yeah, it's like a way to make a collect call so that you don't pay for it. If you have no money, you would call 1-800-Collect and someone would have to pay for the, my parents would pay for the phone call from LA. And I call my mom 1-800-Collect, and she goes, what's, hi Jimmy. I go, mom, Jerry Seinfeld is at the club, at the improv tonight.

Starting point is 00:18:09 She's like, oh my God, Jerry Seinfeld. Oh my God, I can't believe it. She's like, this is the peak of Seinfeld. She goes, is he gonna go, do you stand up? And I go, I don't think so. I don't know, he's just eating at the restaurant. I know he's a fan of comedy, and the owner, his name is Bud Friedman.

Starting point is 00:18:26 And so he was there with Bud. So I go in, and I'm getting ready to do my act, which is a lot of impressions. And I'm waiting there, and who goes on stage? Jerry Seinfeld. He just walks on stage. We have a surprise for you tonight. And he gets a standing ovation, before he even says anything. Comes out, does his greatest hits.

Starting point is 00:18:46 I mean, crushing every joke, the famous ones, the sock missing from the dryer, the whole bit. He did everything, then says good night, standing ovation, and he leaves. And the guy goes, okay, who's on next? Mark, and this guy, Mark goes, I'm not following that. And he goes, how about you? And there's two other guys here, like, Gerald or, there he goes, I'm not following that. And he goes, how about you? And there's two other guys here, like, Gerald or Dodie.

Starting point is 00:19:07 And he goes, I'm not following that. He's like, who's Jimmy Fallon? And he goes, that's me. He goes, yeah, you're up next, kid. I go, oh my gosh. My first Saturday night, I had to follow the greatest comedian of all. I mean, he was the hottest comedian.

Starting point is 00:19:23 Might be one of the best comedians of all time now, and he's the greatest. I had to follow that, it was my first act. I'm like, and so I went up and I had this doll and I would do these impressions about a troll doll and different impressions of celebrities that would be the host of the com- like this one. Wow, you do your research. Unless you just carry that around. Like that one.

Starting point is 00:19:51 So, I would have this doll. Oh my gosh. This is my act. So, I would have this and I'd go, hello, I'm Jimmy Fallon and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated. We're looking for a star or sponsor for a new line of Troll. I would do like a British accent. I don't know why.

Starting point is 00:20:06 I thought that was cool for me at the time. Probably sounds terrible to you. And I don't mean to be offensive. I go, we're looking for a star or celebrity to sponsor our new line of Trouble dolls for our new line of commercials. First up, John Travolta. And then I go, jeez like I swear to God. I mean like look at his hair.

Starting point is 00:20:22 Like who does this hair? Like it's so weird. Like what kind of doll is this, right? I mean, I can't even play with this thing over here. You know, Sandy, you know, I would do something like that. But this time I came out and I go, first up for the celebrity, Seinfeld. And I go, okay, people, okay, look at these dolls.

Starting point is 00:20:42 They don't have their arms and legs, don't move. These aren't fun. He's got no pants on. He's not even wearing pants. What kind of a doll is this? And it worked. And I followed Jerry Seifert. And I was like, and that was cool.

Starting point is 00:20:55 And then I went on the list and I finished my act and I pulled out a guitar and I played guitar with the Troll doll and that was my act for years. Were you a confident young man? So if I zoom back to when you were 12 and you were the class clown in 1986, were you a confident man? What was going on in your head? I think I was pretty confident. I wasn't cocky. I remember my grandfather and my parents being like, hey, don't be too full of yourself. They didn't like kids that were too full of themselves or cocky. I was pretty... but I was confident. In your eighth grade class you were voted by your peers most likely to replace David Letterman on The Late Night Show and you're 13 years old at the

Starting point is 00:21:59 time. Is that crazy? Because I ended up doing that. I ended up doing that. I replaced David Letterman. But you were aiming at that. I wasn't. You were aiming at the SNL thing. SNL. Yeah, Saturday Night Live was my aim. I wanted to be a cast member on Saturday Night Live, which I ended up doing. But then Saturday Night Live is what got me Late Night, which is Letterman's show. And then Late Night got me the Tonight Show.

Starting point is 00:22:26 When you look back at how at that age you were aiming as a young man to be on SNL, which is exceedingly rare, but you also went on to replace David Letterman on the Late Night Show. When you look back in hindsight and go, if your child came to you and said, dad, how does one aim at a goal and then accomplish it? And how did you aim at such a goal? And in hindsight, what were the factors that went into accomplishing that goal? Are there like principles that you could transfer to somebody to make them accomplish such a goal? Because, you know, one of your best friends, I think it was Frank Gentile, recalled that you are, he says, I've never met anybody more

Starting point is 00:23:09 focused on what their goal was in life. I'm not a huge believer in manifestation, as people often describe it. But it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow. I remember just being, I don't know what it is. I wasn't that well read or anything like that, but I just knew that what I wanted to do, I think from around 12 or 13,

Starting point is 00:23:33 and maybe it's because people said I was good at it or I was making people laugh, you know. So I think when my peers and my friends said like, you should do this, like, I think you're gonna be famous one day, or I think you're gonna be a comedian. day. Or I think you're going to be a comedian. You know, I think you start believing it. And you're like, oh, maybe I am good at this.

Starting point is 00:23:51 Like, I don't even remember watching late night or David Letterman around that time. I knew Siren Live. And I probably did watch Letterman and Johnny Carson, the snide show. But I think I started thinking, oh, yeah, Siren Live will be, that's what I wanna do. That's definitely the ultimate dream, because that felt exciting and electric and show business,

Starting point is 00:24:12 but also cool and edgy. And I was like, if that would be my goal, like how would I do that? And I remember like, secretly, if I threw a coin in a fountain, or if I made a wish on a birthday cake, which I still do, that's not my wish anymore, but I remember I would blow out the candles

Starting point is 00:24:32 and I'd say, I wanna be on Saturday Night Live every year, all of my birthdays. Any wish that I could make, that's what I wished, that I could be on Saturday Night Live. And so maybe that pressure that I put on myself drove me to figure it out and see what were the right steps. I think, you know, my big decision, you know, was going to stand up and doing impressions. I knew the show could always use impressions and people doing impersonations of celebrities, You know, and so I thought that was one way in.

Starting point is 00:25:06 And so I remember doing that and then I remember reading that people that study at the groundlings, which is an impromptu troop, if they study there, some people go from the groundlings to siren lives. So I moved out to LA and started taking classes at the groundlings just in case that could help me. I also knew that there was a management company named Brillstein Gray that managed a lot of the people that were on Saturday Night Live. And if I could get seen by Brillstein Gray, maybe they would put me in touch with the Adam Sandler's of the world or the people that they had from, I think Belushi on to, they probably have people on the show now.

Starting point is 00:25:48 But I remember getting a call from a manager who used to work at Bro's Sing Grey, just left. Her name was Randy Siegel and she was great. And she was my manager. I moved out to LA with the manager. And so I thought she would know how to guide me to Saturday Live. What are your parents saying at this time? Because if one's kid says, I'm going to go out to LA to do comedy and improv

Starting point is 00:26:12 and these kinds of things, your dad was a career man. He was working at IBM, I believe. Yes, he was working at IBM. He said to me, he said, look, just guarantee me two years of college. Just go to college for at least two years. I think we made a deal. We said, if you go for four years, I'll pay for two years. And you pay for two years.

Starting point is 00:26:36 I said, okay. That was kind of a deal for us. And so I remember going to college for three and a half years. And on that half of that last semester, I got kind of an opportunity to go to LA to meet with this manager. And I said, I called my parents and I said, I think I'm gonna drop out and move and go to LA and go for it and just try to take acting lessons

Starting point is 00:27:03 and take class at the Groundlings and try to get an audition for Saturday Night Live. And they were like, all right, well, really think about this. This is really what you do. And who is this person that you're going out to? And I go, her name is Randy Siegel. She's a manager. And I had met her through a guy that I used to work for in Troy, New York.

Starting point is 00:27:26 I was a receptionist at a News Weekly called Metroland. I used to answer the phones and I would also do the personal ads like, you know, men seeking women and blah, blah, blah. I typed those things out. And I remember he moved to LA to be a music manager. And so I gave him my tape on his way out, a video tape of me doing my troll act. And I said, if you see anybody, he goes, well, I'm not doing comedy, I'm doing music.

Starting point is 00:27:49 I go, I know, but if you see anybody, maybe pass it along. And so he passed it along to this manager. So she talked to my parents and they got a phone call where she was like, I think Jimmy's got something. You know, he's green, but I think if he gets, but I think if he goes to work and puts in the work, I think that he'll get something. I think he'll be successful. He's green?

Starting point is 00:28:13 Amateur. He's not ready yet. You're not ripe. He's green. So if you're green, you're like green banana. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever give up on yourself? Or did you ever doubt yourself while you were out in LA? Yeah, definitely. A bunch of times. It's tough when you're just not getting the it's not working. And you want to tell everyone that it is working, but it's hard. It's a lot of rejection. And you end up like, you're just trying so hard.

Starting point is 00:28:48 And you go, I know what I want, but it takes so much time to get there. But in the meantime, you have to take auditions. You have to. Because I was like, I didn't want to take acting lessons. Because I read somewhere that James Dean would go to acting class and just watch and never do the acting lessons. And I liked James Dean for some reason. So I would go, and I and just watch and never do the acting lessons.

Starting point is 00:29:05 And I liked James Dean for some reason. So I would go and I'd just sit in the back of it and watch everybody. And finally the acting teacher came up to me and was like, are you sure you wanna do this? Because I mean, you can get so much more out if you did this and started working with other actors. I think you should because you're a standup comedian,

Starting point is 00:29:22 you don't perform with anyone. You're by yourself on stage. I think you should learn how're a stand-up comedian. You don't perform with anyone. You're by yourself on stage. I think you should learn how to act with other actors. And I was like, yeah, maybe he's right. Like, I'm not James Dean. So I started acting. And then you realize, oh, gosh, I'm really not good at this. I gotta learn how to do this.

Starting point is 00:29:39 It's a skill to play off of other people and to listen to other people. So then I started doing auditions because that's my manager would get me on audition for movies and stuff. And I think my first audition was to play a lifeguard in the Brady Bunch 2 movie or something. And I had to say like one line like,

Starting point is 00:29:58 get out of the pool, something like that. And so I remember going and my line was printed on fax paper, they faxed it over. And when fax machines were a thing. And so I had, and they would tell you, bring in the paper when you do the audition, hold the lines so that they don't think that you're off book. So they think that you have a chance of getting better.

Starting point is 00:30:20 I go, okay, great. So I'd hold the paper and I go, and action. I go, get out of the pool. You go, okay. You wanna So I would hold the paper and I go, and action. I go, get out of the pool. You go, okay, you wanna just do it one more time? I go, okay. It's quiet and it's just so awkward. And I go, get out of the pool or whatever it was. And she goes, okay, bye bye.

Starting point is 00:30:40 I actually said bye bye. And I was like, my face got red. I got so embarrassed. And I got back to my apartment and my manager called me and I go, did you hear feedback? She goes, yeah, you didn't get it. They said that, weirdly, she goes, they said you're too green. And I go, okay. She goes, but we have to work on it. Just keep doing it and keep doing auditions and working on these lines and you should

Starting point is 00:31:04 get an acting coach and go Bring that lines to the acting class and go here's can you do get out of the pool? You know whatever better so it's just got over and over again. You get rejected and you wouldn't get parts. I got No parts a prior audition for you know 30 It shows and movies and stuff like that. And you just kind of, it's tough, it's really tough. Say anyone going into the business or acting or any of that stuff, the entertainment stuff, you're gonna get beat up.

Starting point is 00:31:34 It's gonna be to the point where you're like, I'm so depressed, I can't do it. But just know that if you can just get through it and keep working, eventually, whatever it is that's gonna happen in life will work out. Maybe you won't even be an actor, but maybe you'll be a lighting director, maybe you'll work on sets, maybe it won't be acting,

Starting point is 00:31:54 but it will get you to where you're supposed to be if you just keep going and keep doing. And I just kept kind of telling myself that. And I ran out of money, and I was like, I'm going to have to go home to live with my parents and probably go back to college if they can let me back in. And I think I even might have looked into it. But I was just so bummed out because that's not

Starting point is 00:32:18 what I wanted at all. I wanted to be on Siren Live. And it's just reality was like, oh, you almost didn't feel like living in this world because it's like people couldn't believe that they're like, that's not reality. You can't just say I'm gonna be on Saturday Night Live. I remember going to my groundlings class.

Starting point is 00:32:37 My first teacher was great. His name is Jim Wise. And he goes, what do you wanna do? And he would go around the horn and be like, I wanna be in movies. I want to be in a TV show. I want to be in a sitcom. And I said, I want to be on Saturday Night Live.

Starting point is 00:32:50 He's like, well, that's very specific. That's like, yeah, it's one in a zillion. That's what I want. And he brought that up to me. He brings it up to me and he's like, I'll never forget that. You said that, that's what you wanted to do. And that was my ultimate, ultimate. I said, if I do nothing else in life,

Starting point is 00:33:10 that's all I wanted to do. And like, even if that, if I got on for one season or one episode, then I could do whatever I could. I didn't care what I did after that. That was my... What was the fixation with Saturday Night Live? I think my parents loved it and their friends loved it, but that was what they would watch. And that was like the pinnacle of comedy. That was the best comedy show in America.

Starting point is 00:33:36 And so that was the best. So it's like playing for the greatest team, you know, playing for the Yankees or, you know, whatever. I don't know soccer, but Arsenal? I have no idea. Manchester United. Oh, Manchester United. You couldn't help yourself. Oh my gosh. But yes, playing for that. You're playing, you want to play? Play for the best. If you can make it there, that's the best team. Then you could do whatever for that if you play for Man U. But it's slightly different with you because a lot of upcoming football players would be happy to play for any Premier League team. Man United is, you know, of course great, but they would aim

Starting point is 00:34:15 for any Premier League team, whereas you seem to be like religiously intent on it being Saturday night live. Yeah, it had to be that because I think that's what we would watch, we would talk about. As a family. As kind of a family, yeah. As a family, they would tape it. You know, we were one of the first families to have a VCR, which is anyone young listening to this podcast, a video cassette recorder.

Starting point is 00:34:39 So it would tape. It's like a DVR, digital video recording. So it's a video cassette. And you would tape it on these giant tapes and they would record two hours on television. And so we would tape the show and then you could re-watch it. And then I would re-watch it and study it

Starting point is 00:34:55 and watch the sketches over and over again and watch repeats and watch the greats and watch Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and people I want, Bill Murray and Steve Martin, people I wanted to be like. As it got into high school, I was taping it, watching the best sketches, and I would go to my friend's party and

Starting point is 00:35:12 show the best sketch that week and go, oh, this is the best sketch. It's Chris Farley and it's blah, blah, blah. Or I would be obsessed that way. I almost became so obsessed in high school that I couldn't really hang out with anyone while I watched the show because I didn't like it if anyone didn't like the show. My parents used to let me drink if I stayed home. So if I didn't go out, they would buy me a six pack of beer and I could drink at probably

Starting point is 00:35:42 16 or something or something like that. You know, I'm not the smartest thing, but they would, you know, I would hang out with my friends and they would say, yeah, they're going to have a couple of beers. And, you know, I would watch Siren Live with a six pack and watch it and study it. And I ended up just stopped watching it with anyone else. You know, I guess I still drank. That's sad to say I drank by myself, but I became an alcoholic at 16. But it was a thing that I would do

Starting point is 00:36:16 and I would just study it. Every Saturday night, and continuing into college, my friends would have parties and they go, you gotta come, right? I go, I'll be there at one o'clock. They go, you know, the parties, you got to come. I go, Sarah, I can't go. And they go, just tape it.

Starting point is 00:36:32 I go, I can't just tape it. I have to watch it live. Obsessed. Yeah. I was beyond obsessed. Uh, obsessed without a doubt. That was it. That was the pinnacle.

Starting point is 00:36:43 Like even I went on like an NBC tour with my dad, like a bus trip to New York Without a doubt, that was it. That was the pinnacle. I went on an NBC tour with my dad, like a bus trip to New York City, and took me on a tour of NBC to see Siren Live. This is as I was older. I was just so nervous to go in the building. Oh my gosh, this is the building. This is what it looks like. This is the doorway and the revolving door.

Starting point is 00:37:05 I know all this. I know everything. I know what the walls look like. I know what the ceiling is painted like. I know art deco, decoration. I knew everything. I geeked out and I was like, this is the best day just going on tour there.

Starting point is 00:37:18 Now I've worked there for 20 something years. It's my home. I've been working in that building since 1998. I don't even think about it anymore. That's the door going to work. Every now and then I'll walk to, you know, I walk to work almost every day, but I'll get that feeling again like, oh yeah, don't lose that. This word obsession, it seems to be, earlier when I said the principles of all the characteristics that got you to where you are today, but clearly obsession is one of them. I mean, you're obsessed

Starting point is 00:37:51 to an extent that I didn't actually realise with becoming a host on Saturday Night Live. Obsession is a powerful force, isn't it? Because it means that one can bang their head against an immovable object over and over again until the immovable object moves out its way. And that's kind of what you found yourself doing in LA. You're sat, you're going to these auditions, you're getting rejected. What was your mental health like in that period when you were in LA? Because you're dealing with constant rejection, you're running out of money, you're contending

Starting point is 00:38:20 with having to go home. It wasn't the greatest, and I'm a pretty positive guy in general, but I think that was probably my lowest looking back. I mean, I remember like, you know, trying to see what therapy was or if I could afford a therapist or what that meant or. Why? Because I was just breaking down mentally of like what have I done like what have I done?

Starting point is 00:38:51 I've kind of made these decisions and I wasn't getting anywhere and it was like I mean I had really kind of no friends and no social life. Just obsessed with work and obsessed with stand up and trying to make my act better and trying to see if I can get on Saturday Night Live and having no money and just going like, what is this all about? You know, I can't, I don't know if I can afford to keep failing. You know, I can't live in an apartment if you don't make money. You know, I can't afford gas to get to the audition. You can't eat.

Starting point is 00:39:29 You just like, you just go, oh yeah, I just got to keep doing gigs, but I'm running out of space. So maybe if I go home, I can go back to doing like these little clubs and make some money, save up money, then go back out and try again in LA. I remember there came a moment where I'm like, oof, I think I wrote a letter to my best friend like I'm losing a dude. And in fact, I know I did because he still has the letter and he works for our show now. And he says, I have it and I'll publish it one day.

Starting point is 00:39:59 I'll give it to people if I need the money. I'll release your letter if you've emotionally broken. I go, you know, but that's what best friends do. They hold it over your head. He's a sick dude. You're going to sell it on eBay? Yeah, exactly. I'll sell it on eBay. And I go, gosh, I mean, you know, it's one of those embarrassing things. I probably wish I didn't write that. But What did it say?

Starting point is 00:40:23 I don't even ask, but I think it was something to the point, like I'm losing it. And I don't know if I can make it. I don't know what else to do with my life. Something to that effect. I miss college. I miss you. I miss having friends. I miss going out. I miss, you know, I think it was that. It was like maybe regretting my decision to go to college.

Starting point is 00:40:42 I think it was that. I think it was that. I think it was that. I think it was that., I miss going out, I miss, you know, I think it was that. It was like maybe regretting my decision to move to LA. Was there anything that this Jimmy might go back to that Jimmy and say to him at that time if you could, some message that maybe he needed to hear that he wasn't hearing? Maybe advice will.

Starting point is 00:41:05 Yeah, I mean, of course the advice would be like, it's going to be okay. You know, I think probably the best would be to go back and be like, hey, I'm proud of you, dude. Like you're doing exactly what you have to do. You're doing what you have to do to become me. So I'm so proud of you. So keep it up. You know? I mean, I would all the things that like I remember just in LA and like, I remember like, finding cardboard boxes that were thrown out in this garage next to me and bringing that in,

Starting point is 00:41:46 not dirty or anything, but new boxes. And I would put sheets over and they would become tables. So I would use that as like kind of an end table next to my bed and stuff like that. And you go, oh yeah, those are, it's creative. You know, it could, you could look at it so sad to talk about now and go, oh my God, you're by yourself, you had cardboard boxes, it's tables. I didn't think about that. I was just trying to be, that would look nice if it had a sheet over it and that looked kind of cool.

Starting point is 00:42:13 It was very kind of dormy, but I think about, I don't know why, just maybe think about it now. So maybe, I mean, having cardboard furniture was depressing, but I think that's where you have to dig and See if you can make the find the funny and go like if you can perform now Then get ready when if you're if you get if you step in the ring, you're an animal why I'm proud of you You didn't quit you didn't quit. You didn't, you're really like against all odds.

Starting point is 00:42:48 You're doing something that no one in the family has done, that none of your friends have done. You really don't know where this is going to end. And you're kind of in adventuring into an odd place. You're discovering all new stuff that's never been done. And it's great to do this because one day you'll get tested in a different way. And you'll be mentally stronger. And so I'm proud of you because this is all tough now, but it will pay off when you need to show your strengths.

Starting point is 00:43:23 Or, you know, it's almost like you're going to the gym, you know, it will pay off one day. Like, I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna run, I don't wanna lift, I don't wanna do anything, I don't wanna eat. And you go, I know, but the future of me is telling you, this is great that you're doing this. Because you're going to have, it's just gonna be,

Starting point is 00:43:41 when you need it, you'll be strong enough. And so I think I was becoming stronger as I was building it. And I look back, and I wouldn't change anything. If anything, I would say I wanted to happen faster. But not really. I think you have to live through all the stuff and go, oh, yeah. Now I remember that. That was cringey. Oh, that was rough. Oh, I not really. I think you have to live through all the stuff and go, oh yeah, now I remember that. That was cringy. Oh, that was rough. Oh, I remember that. That was bad. But that was a good one. And then you go, oh yeah, that was another great one.

Starting point is 00:44:14 And then, oh yeah, and then you start thinking of all these stuff that you thought was depressing then, it's kind of charming now. And you go, kind of, I love those days. I love the days where you bombed and that was the biggest problem. The biggest problem in your life was that you didn't do a great impression of Jerry Seinfeld. That was the biggest problem in your life?

Starting point is 00:44:35 Okay, then I think your life is pretty good. You look back and go, it meant so much to me though. And I think about that now with my daughters. You know, they tell me stuff is going on in school and stuff. And to me, I'm like, you won't even see these kids. They mean, this will mean nothing to you. These kids, maybe you'll be friends with them for life. I hope that'd be great, but I don't think so.

Starting point is 00:44:57 I don't remember anyone. I don't talk to them from my grade school, but it's the biggest thing in their life now. So you can't say that. Cause it's like, dad, this is my life. What are you talking about? This's the biggest thing in their life now. So you can't say that because it's like, dad, this is my life. What are you talking about? This is the biggest thing. Like, high school is so slow when you're in high school.

Starting point is 00:45:11 Right now, four years is a joke. Four years is like a joke to me. I go, oh my god, I can do anything for four years. When you're in it, it's long. Four years feels like 25 years. Could you have imagined a reality where you didn't end up getting on to SNL at some point? So if we were sat here now, you're 50 years old, and you're sat here and you'd never done it. I would have done it.

Starting point is 00:45:34 But, so this is what I'm getting at is... I would have found a way and done it. And even just walked on or something. I would have found a way to get on it. I would have found some way to either be an extra or walk in the background or do something or I would have, there's no way. There's no way. I have to. But you're saying if I didn't, what would happen? Are you saying, I don't think it would ever happen. I had to be on it. I was going to make it out and I had to do it. I don't think there was an option. I don't think there, I would have done it.

Starting point is 00:46:18 I don't think there's ever an option. I would never have been on that show. I asked the question because there are areas of my life where I sometimes reflect and go, I always thought that that was going to happen. And the consideration that that might not have happened makes it's almost like this like then life wouldn't have been real. Like then everything I believed would have been a lie. There's small things in my life that when you look at me as a young man and I'm filming myself, pretending that a TV show have asked me to do something that ended up happening

Starting point is 00:46:44 10 years ago. And I go, that was always how in my brain to do something that ended up happening 10 years ago. And I go, that was always how in my brain. I did that too. Yeah. But I mean, I think a lot of performers have done this, where you interview yourself and you pretend you're on a radio show and you go like, here I am,

Starting point is 00:46:58 I'm counting down the top 10 songs and here's the vote. And I have cassettes of me doing that. I think a lot of people do that. When I asked you the question about SNL, you were so convinced that that's always the way that it was going to go. And I'm like, that's what I'm trying to, I wanted to see your reaction when I make you consider

Starting point is 00:47:15 that it didn't go that way. I can't see it not happening. I had to, it was going to happen. I don't know. I don't know if I can tell you honestly that I could imagine another path. I don't even know if I could fake it, because I would be lying.

Starting point is 00:47:35 I know I would be on Saturday Night Live. I have to, I just, that was, I can't even, I can't lie and say, well, I guess I could have done it. I just know. So how did you go from that kid who's writing the letter to his friend saying that he's considering giving up and seeking out therapy and those kinds of things.

Starting point is 00:47:56 How did you get from that moment to that first Saturday Night Live audition? I think you get little things, little good things happen to you. You're going to use the word luck, right? It sounded like you paused on the word luck though. I could use luck, but I'm just going to say good things. I mean, it probably is luck. I feel like I'm a lucky person, but I think they're just like, I think I got a holding deal at Warner Brothers Television to do like, to act for a sitcom or something, even though I didn't want a sitcom. I remember putting in the contract that if I get Siren Live while I'm doing the sitcom,

Starting point is 00:48:42 that I can contractually get out. And they said, no. That's the whole reason. No one can. You can't. I go, well, that's the only reason I have to get this clause in my contract. And they said, no one's ever asked for that, but OK.

Starting point is 00:49:00 And so they put it in my contract. So if I was on the show show the show didn't get picked up But if the show got picked up and I got a chance to audition for Siren Live I could leave the show Contractually because they were like it's just no it's not gonna happen. But so I ended up acting and getting a little money Which is great because it's actually I could stay at my apartment and actually Still work on my goal of Siren Live, you know, while not doing, I didn't want to act in sitcoms. But that helped me take a breath and go like, okay, I got a couple more months of opportunity. And eventually you get a phone call?

Starting point is 00:49:42 Did you get a phone call? Yes. My manager sent tapes and tapes and tapes to Siren Live saying, can you know this is he really wants it, blah, blah, blah. And so I got an audition for Siren Live. This is my first two auditions. My first one, I went to do stand up, my troll bit, on stage at the comic strip here in New York. And I remember going in and having my one outfit that I owned that I thought was the

Starting point is 00:50:13 best and some shirt from The Gap or something and Nike sneakers that were like such a big deal. I only wore them on special occasions. And this was it. And I went on stage with my troll doll and I saw Lauren was in the audience. I only wore them on special occasions and this was it. And I went on stage with my troll doll and I saw Lauren was in the audience. He had his hat on. He's the founder of Creative. Yes, he's creative Saturday Night Live. And now the late night end of the tonight show.

Starting point is 00:50:35 And I remember going on stage and as soon as I did my first impression, I knew it just didn't work. I didn't have the audience. It was cut down from a 10 minute act to I think three minutes. And I had to catch the audience, hook them in three minutes and leave. And I started the first 20 seconds. I could tell this is bad. And it was sweaty. It was a bad audition. And I left and I go, we went to a diner next door to the club with my manager and I had

Starting point is 00:51:05 coffee. It was very depressing. Like, wow, that was my, that was it. That was my just for Saturday Night Live. Lorne Michaels, who's the creator of the show was there. That was my big opportunity and I blew it. You know, let me figure it out. Went back to LA. They said you didn me fix it. It'll be fine. Let's figure it out. Went back to L.A.

Starting point is 00:51:25 They said you didn't get it. How did that feel? For some reason, at that point, I don't remember. I was a bit numb, I think, then. And I think I was on... I was starting to work on my act and really getting into standup. And I just kind of kept thinking in my head, I have to get another shot, another chance at auditioning or showing them what I could really do because that was just not the best

Starting point is 00:52:02 that I could really do because that was just not the best that I could do. But it wasn't too long after that where I got another phone call from Sarah Line. How old were you when you got that second call? 23. So I heard you'd said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25, you were going to... I was going to kill myself. Were you actually?

Starting point is 00:52:25 Yeah, I wrote that in something, in some journal or something. You wrote what? If I don't get on Siren Live by the age of 25, then I'll kill myself. Did you mean that? Yeah, I did. But again, I knew that I was going to be on Saturday Night Live.

Starting point is 00:52:45 So I guess I didn't really mean it. I was going to be on Saturday Night Live before I was 25. So crazy. I knew that I was going to be on it. So it wasn't really a threat. So funny. Do you know what's funny? Actually, it's in my book behind there, there's a screenshot of my diary and in the front page of my diary it says, before I'm 25. And it has my goal written in the front of my diary and I've published it in my book, which is on the shelf somewhere. Isn't that funny that

Starting point is 00:53:17 I had the same thing where I'm like, before I'm 25 years old, I will have to do this. Yes. Yeah. And it happened, thankfully. But did you think when you were typing? I didn't tell you I was going to kill myself. Yeah, I think I typed it out. But again, I was into computers. I think I typed it.

Starting point is 00:53:36 I think it's on some file somewhere. I think I said I would kill myself. But I definitely said, yeah, 25 was my thing. I started my first business at 12 years old and I started more businesses at 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18. And at that time, what I didn't realise is that being a founder with no money meant that I also had to be the marketeer, the sales rep, the finance team, customer service and the recruiter. But if you're starting a business today, thankfully there's a tool that wears all of those hats for you. Our sponsor today which is Shopify. Because of all of its AI integrations, using Shopify

Starting point is 00:54:16 feels a bit like you've hired an entire growth team from day one, taking care of writing product descriptions, your website design and enhancing your product's images. Not to mention the bits you'd expect Shopify to handle, like the shipping, like the taxes, like the inventory. And if you're looking to get your business started, go to Shopify.com slash Bartlett and sign up for a $1 per month trial. That's Shopify.com slash Bartlett. And you get the second call for the second audition around 23, 24 years old. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:48 So then I said, do you want me to do the Troll Doll? And they go, no, we'd rather you not do the Troll Dolls because we've seen that already. They go, okay. Was that the end of the Troll Doll? Well, that was my whole act. I don't have any, I don't have much more. That was, that's all I did was the Troll Doll act. So I'm like, what do I do? I don't have much more. That's all I did was the Troll Doll Act.

Starting point is 00:55:05 So, like, what do I do? So I just kind of did the Troll Doll Act under a guise of a different thing, where it's like a celebrity charity or, you know, so, you know, I think it was a... How you doing? Here we go. You know, my mom always told me to... That gets a lot of, how you doing?

Starting point is 00:55:23 To get some exercise and so on. She used to say all the time, she'd say, Why don't you go to the store with your mother? And I... -"Skinny kid." And I would say, I'd say, Why don't you shut up?! That was the big, that was my big moment. That was the biggest moment for me.

Starting point is 00:55:42 That was, that's crazy. That was the moment in the audition That was, that's crazy. That was the moment in the audition too that changed everything. Because I was doing a bunch of impressions. And before I did that, I'm so nervous. But now I'm on the actual stage. And you're there and the producer comes over and says, Jimmy Fallon, yeah, come with us. They go, just let you know.

Starting point is 00:56:04 Lorne Michaels doesn't laugh, so don't let that throw you if you're doing your act. You go, great. Thank you. And then they go, now go get a hair and makeup. I go, wow, how cool hair and makeup. I go get hair and makeup. They're doing my hair. They're putting makeup on me because they're broadcasting my audition to California so that the heads of NBC can see. And the guy and girl doing my hair and makeup go, just so you know, Lauren doesn't really laugh in these auditions, so don't let that throw you. And I go, okay, yeah, so I heard. Okay, thank you.

Starting point is 00:56:31 I go get your microphone on. So they're putting a microphone on me and a mic pack. And the audio guy goes, just a little advice, Lauren doesn't really laugh. So if you do anything, I go, what is this guy's problem? Why is he not laughing? He's in the wrong business. I mean, he's in the wrong business.

Starting point is 00:56:45 I mean, he's in a comedy show. And so as I was doing that audition, I did an impression of Adam Sandler, which is what you just played. And I remember at the time it was kind of new because Adam just left Siren Live and no one was really doing Adam Sandler. And I was doing, you know, like,

Starting point is 00:57:01 hey yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, hey yeah, ooh yeah yeah. Hey yeah, ooh yeah yeah yeah. Whatever. And I remember Lawrence started laughing. And I go, that's cool. That's a cool story. Even if I don't get Siren Live, but I just knew that he started laughing. He put his head in his hand and he's laughing.

Starting point is 00:57:17 And I go, that's a good story. I'll tell my kids I made Lorne Michaels laugh on Siren Live, on the set of Siren Live. I wasn't really on the show, but I was on the set. And I remember doing that and feeling good about the audition. Like I left that going. That went as good as it could go. That was the best I can give them.

Starting point is 00:57:43 That was the best I can give him. That was it. And I remember one of the producers, Marcy Klein, came up to me and said, grabbed my hand and she goes, Jimmy, that was fantastic. You gotta feel good. And I was like, and I just felt like, okay, if they're saying it and I feel good, then you didn't hear, I didn't hear back for a couple weeks or whatever. It's like, it's crazy how long you wait. Because you, and they go, look, we like Jimmy. I didn't hear back for a couple of weeks or whatever. It's like, it's crazy how long you wait. Cause you, and they go, look, we like Jimmy. We saw him at the comedy club.

Starting point is 00:58:09 We were looking for a different direction. You know, for that audition, I think they hired Tracy Morgan. So they were going in a different direction, the first audition. But this one, they called, they go, Lauren wants to meet you and talk to you. He's going to be out in LA.

Starting point is 00:58:24 And he had an office on the Paramount lot. And so I drove into the Paramount lot. I gave my name to the front gate. It's a great, it's a great studio. It feels like you're in the business. I don't know if you've ever been to the Paramount lot, but the giant gates and it's a movie set and the gates open and you go to a parking spot and there's actors walking around and it just feels like you're in the business. It is nerve wracking. I went into Lauren's office, yeah, like some office on the lot.

Starting point is 00:58:54 And I remember going into his office and everything was white and it kind of felt heavenly almost in your sight. And I sat across the desk from him and he goes, Jimmy, do you wear wigs? And I was like, oh, no, I goes, Jimmy, do you wear wigs? And I was like, oh, no, I just got, I do this to my hair, I just spike it up. He's like, no, no, no, I'm saying like for characters and stuff, like, do you, have you done characters

Starting point is 00:59:14 like where you wear wigs and stuff? I go, no, he goes, because we want you for the show. And I just think, you know, with more practice and if you try to do different, and as soon as he, whatever he was saying, I couldn't hear, the rest was slow motion. I was like, oh my gosh. He just said, I got Siren Live.

Starting point is 00:59:32 I did it. I got Siren Live. It's happening. I couldn't believe it. And I go, okay. And I shook his hand. I go, I hope I make you proud. And I left and I think I pulled over to the first payphone I could get to and called my mom.

Starting point is 00:59:51 I'm like, I just got Sarah Live. And it was like, wah! You know, you know, you know, it was just, it was crazy. The whole thing's crazy. I'm coming back to New York because I'm gonna be on the show that I tried to be on my whole life. I did it.

Starting point is 01:00:11 It's happening. And here we go. And it was like, wow. And I say goodbye to LA and my roommates and everyone's just so happy for me. And then I went to New York and got an apartment and then midtown and it was the greatest thing. And then I went to New York and got an apartment in Midtown. And it was the greatest thing.

Starting point is 01:00:29 And I took Siren Live and went from there and did a couple of movies. I met my wife. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. And then I didn't work for a while after the movies. And then Lorne asked me to host Late Night and replace Conan O'Brien. I did. I worked hard at that.

Starting point is 01:00:52 And then I got asked to replace Jay Leno on The Tonight Show. And I did that and here I am. Now I'm hosting The Tonight Show and crazy life and crazy opportunities. it's just so interesting and fun. There was emotion in your face where you talked about getting SNL and calling your mum. It's so interesting that it's decades ago. Yeah. You know, again, like it's the end of Rocky. You know, it's the thing. again, like, it's the end of Rocky. You know, it's the thing. It's like, I did it.

Starting point is 01:01:28 It's like, yes. You know, you did it. That's insane. You got to be kidding me. You did it. What we all said you were going to do, but you went and actually, it's crazy. Not many people do this. And I was like, yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:54 And to talk to your mom, who's your biggest fan and always believed in you, you know, that's emotional. And it's like, how can this be? It's just, I don't know, it was just, the whole thing's kind of crazy. It's amazing. It's the anti-climax. No. Because if you aim at that one goal and put it on a pedestal for that long in your life.

Starting point is 01:02:23 No, it paid off. It was everything. It was what I dreamt. It was crazy. Everything. The announcer, Jimmy Fallon, him saying my name. I was like, dreamt of it. He was really saying it. I could watch him. I enjoyed every second of it. Every bit. The internet was happening at the time. And then people started sending me fan letters and then web pages. And it was just like, you started getting famous. And here's the New York City street.

Starting point is 01:02:52 I walked on not too long ago, being kind of afraid and intimidated. Now I'm walking and people are going, Jimmy. And it's cool. And you go, yeah. What weren't you prepared for? Getting rejection, getting your sketches cut, being told you're not funny, haters.

Starting point is 01:03:14 This is before Twitter and all that stuff, which is a different ball game that I wasn't ready for either. But you think that it's just going to be, oh, this is cool. Everyone would be great. But then just people, not everyone's rooting for you. Some people want you to fail. People's jobs are to take me down, you know, and to put bad press out and stuff. It's just, that's their job. And that's, and you're just like, oh, I didn't think it was, I don't live in that world, I don't believe that it's real, but it kind of is real. And you go, oh, people are just gonna be mean.

Starting point is 01:03:51 And you got to, again, just toughen up and get through it and just keep your head down and keep being funny and just keep doing things and keep being creative. And just, if you move that out, you realize it's not even real. It's real, but it's noise. And it's just, it doesn't affect you. You can only believe in yourself

Starting point is 01:04:10 and know that you have to keep going. And if you keep scoring, that will show. Your work will show. That's stuff I wasn't prepared for, of dealing with overcoming that, you know. Overcoming that. Yeah, overcoming like hating on you or saying you're not good or something.

Starting point is 01:04:34 It's like, you don't think that's gonna happen. But it will if you're successful because someone will be like, someone's not gonna like you no matter what. Someone that's always trying to please is that the antithesis of pleasing for one's brain who is orientated towards making people happy. It's the worst. Yes, it is the absolute worst. I hate it. I want everyone to like me. I can't stand it. I go, oh my gosh, what can I do to make you like me? I think the answer is you can't.

Starting point is 01:05:13 You can't make everyone like you. You just have to do what you do and do the best at what you do and be happy with yourself. I mean, like what's the alternative? The alternative is you quit, you change. Yeah, you quit or you change you to be, I guess what the person who hates you likes. Someone else will just hate that.

Starting point is 01:05:39 Yeah, the original people will hate that. Then you change and you go, oh yeah. I mean- And then you'll hate that. That you changed and you go, oh yeah. I mean... And then you'll hate yourself. Yeah. I mean, there's, I love music, but I remember like, I loved the Beastie Boys growing up. And there's that one line, Mike D says like,

Starting point is 01:05:57 be true to yourself and you will never fall. And it's like, kind of is the move. Just be true to yourself. Then there's no, everyone can say whatever they want. It's like, that's who I am. How did you cope with that stardom, being thrust into public spotlight? You're getting feedback from everywhere.

Starting point is 01:06:17 You're getting the good, the bad, the ugly, you're someone that wants to please. Did you seek any professional help? Did you get any support? No, no, I just kind of lived through it and go like, yeah. Did you seek any professional help? Did you get any support? No. No, I just kind of lived through it and go like, yeah, I think I'll figure it out. I think fame was fun. It's cooler.

Starting point is 01:06:37 It's cooler than cool. It's like, wow, this is what I thought it would be. But it's also, at the end of the day, it's the work and the stuff that you do and the stuff that comes out of it where I'm most proud of where I'm like, oh, I get to do this. I think this bit could be fun. I remember we had Mick Jagger on the show and Lorne said Mick will do a sketch if anyone has an idea. And I go, I can do an idea where I'm the reflection of Mick Jagger in the mirror.

Starting point is 01:07:05 And I'm like, you know, what, what, I'm doing a shot of that, what? And Lauren goes, please don't do that. Absolutely please don't, please don't do that. He goes, it's been done, the Marx brothers have done it, it's just a Lucille Ball, it's just, it's been done. Please don't do that.

Starting point is 01:07:18 I go, okay. He goes, but go pitch Mick ideas. I go, I don't wanna pitch him ideas. You're the producer, I'm nervous. I don't even know Mick Jagger. He's like, just go in and pitch Mick ideas. I go, I don't want to pitch him ideas. You're the producer. I'm nervous. I don't even know Mick Jagger. He's like, just go in and pitch me ideas. So I wrote out like 10 ideas. I'm like, hey, Mick. He's very nice. And I go, you know, I was thinking maybe me and you, you play Keith and I'm you. And we work at a Sunglass Hut or something like that.

Starting point is 01:07:45 And he's like, nah, don't really like that. I don't like that. And I go, well, then I have this other idea where you and I work in an ice cream shop, but we're, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, nah, nah, don't really like that. I don't wanna do that. And I go, all right.

Starting point is 01:08:01 And I'm going down the list and the ideas are getting worse and worse. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. And then at a desperation, I go, all right, and I'm going down the list and the ideas are getting worse and worse. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. And then at a desperation, I go, or we could do something where you come in your dressing room and I'm your reflection in the mirror. And you're like, what am I doing this shot done in 70s and done the 80s?

Starting point is 01:08:16 What am I gonna tell that? What am I gonna tell that? And he goes, oh, I like that. And I go, so I go back to Lauren's office. I go, good news, bad news, good news, make wants to do a sketch, bad news is it's the mirror sketch. So Lauren was like, okay, we'll do it. And we wrote it in a night, which had never been done.

Starting point is 01:08:38 When I was on the show, we wrote it on a Thursday night, rehearsed it once on Friday, and did the show on Saturday. And it worked. And it really worked. It might be one of the best sketches I was ever in. And Mick was so happy that he was so giddy and he kind of shook my hand through the mirror, which is funny because I'm supposed to be his reflection. And it was just kind of cool. And I remember one of those things where I'm like, the room was shaking. And I go, that's cool. Like, dude, that's beyond what I dreamt I could do.

Starting point is 01:09:12 You know, being on Siren Live is one dream, but now you're doing it, sketched with one of your rock idols, you know, and scoring. And it's great. It's really funny. And everyone's having a good time. Like you really think, but that's something and it was wasn't meant to be, it wasn't written, it was all just kind of happened last minute and you know, but those little moments all kind of add up and you go, oh my gosh, this is so crazy that this is all happening.

Starting point is 01:09:39 How was that? I was looking before you arrived at all the people you've interviewed going back more than a decade and it's just everybody. It's like Floyd Mayweather to you insert the name of the person who's at the top of an industry. You've sat with them, they've been on your show. I was thinking like, how has that altered your perception of not just what fame is, but like what life is about? Because you've met the best of the best, the top of the top, the richest of the rich, the most famous of the famous. I'm interested, you know, in people, whoever it may be, whether it's Bruce Springsteen

Starting point is 01:10:13 or you know, Angelina Jolie or something, you know, you're talking to them, just like, talk to me about this thing or what, I don't know. It's like, also with my show, I gotta jump right in. I have probably 10 minutes interview, you know, which is you gotta get in there fast and you go like, I gotta make them comfortable and know that I'm not gonna make them look bad. I just wanna talk to them and go like,

Starting point is 01:10:41 hey, blah, blah, blah, or I'll make a thing or I'll just say some joke or I don't know what I'll do. And they're like, really? And then they'll be themselves. And then you go, now it's flowing. And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you can get into the movie talk and sell the product or whatever you know, which is whatever.

Starting point is 01:10:58 But it's that first kind of five to seven minutes where you get in there and then you start playing with them and you start like, if you can get a laugh out of Floyd Mayweather or something, it's cool. How do you make them feel comfortable? You must have something that you have learned about what it is that makes someone feel comfortable. I don't know. I don't have an exact recipe.

Starting point is 01:11:22 I will tell you that I go in before the show to their dress room say hello before the show Okay, and just to say hi. I can't go and then I'll just talk to them sometimes I talk to them longer than the interview because I will get talking about something or life or some bit or you know You know their parents or something. You know, just get into real life talk and by the time they come out They feel like we've already talked, so it's less pressure. I think also after 16 years of talking to, I've seen everyone at their highest,

Starting point is 01:11:54 I've seen everyone at their lowest, I've seen people date people they shouldn't date, I've seen people get married and have babies. And just really fun to watch, and it's fun to go back. And now, even if I see these people once a year, twice a year, I feel like I know them a little bit. And you're like, oh yeah, Floyd, good to see you, what's up? Or Mick, how's it going?

Starting point is 01:12:16 How's your kids? You know, we can just talk. And we're caught up and you're like, oh yeah. And it kind of feels like, maybe it doesn't to them, but to me it feels like I just saw them yesterday and that we're, you know, even though it's probably, I haven't seen them in a year, it feels like I just saw you.

Starting point is 01:12:34 You go, oh yeah. How do you stop it from getting old? And I say this because I am, obviously I've been doing this podcast now really for about four years. That's really, I consider the starting point when we started on YouTube. And I wonder what I've got to do to make sure

Starting point is 01:12:48 that I never get bored of doing this. I don't think you ever will. There's just so many interesting people. Yeah. There's so many people in this world and it doesn't end. I mean, four years, I'm trying to think of where that was. That was round at the end of late night for me. I mean, you're just, you're doing all the things.

Starting point is 01:13:07 You're just expanding. I mean, but you're working hard. I mean, you're trying. I think just keep trying. If you stop trying, you get boring tomorrow. But here you are in New York with 10 cameras. I mean, you're not in London. You're not in your kitchen.

Starting point is 01:13:24 This is fake. Don't bring the illusion. This is fake. This're not in London. You're not in your kitchen. This is fake. They bring the illusion. This is fake. This wall's not real. There's a light here. This is all fake. This is all a fake thing. This is how you don't make it old. You have to work. And this is all nothing here is real. This is all a studio. But that's how you make it not get old. This is all a studio, but that's how you make it not get old. But this is, I think how you make it exciting is you got to put the work in. Don't get tired. You got to show up and you always got to show up. You got to be there and you got to be there for your audience.

Starting point is 01:13:59 And you do that. You show up. You do all the stuff. I mean, you have to. And that's, like you said, it's kind of a seven days a week thing, but it's every day you go, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? It just becomes part of your life.

Starting point is 01:14:14 It's brushing your teeth. It's like, oh yeah, I guess brushing your teeth, someone at one point told me I had to do that. But now I do it every day, so I don't think about it. I brush them three times, four times a day now. I'm like, yeah. But now I do it every day, so I don't think about it. I brush them three times, four times a day now. How do you keep yourself challenged? Is there something that you're doing to push yourself? Because we expand around the world, we go to different places, we have increasingly

Starting point is 01:14:37 more interesting, different guests and challenge ourselves in that way. But when I just looked at your show, I was like, he started with the biggest in the world. I know. And he started in the biggest city in the world. Start putting more pressure on yourself for any little challenges or trying something. You go like, I've always wanted to put out a Christmas album, you know, and just come out with and write original songs, you know. Trying to write songs is hard enough. Trying to write 20 original Christmas songs, it's insane. And what's, what hasn't been said?

Starting point is 01:15:06 I have an idea for a kid's book that I think could be funny. You know, yeah, Dada was the first one that was a big deal. It's really the same word on every page. It's just getting your kid to say Dada. I thought that no one's done this. So I go, basically, if you get to the end of the book, it's you saying the word dada so many times that I think your baby has to eventually just go dada.

Starting point is 01:15:29 So it'll work. But then you released Mama. I had to because my wife. The backlash. And all my female fans were like, really, you have two daughters and you're not gonna write mama? Because this is the real truth.

Starting point is 01:15:43 Everything is mama. So that's kind of the same book, except I changed it to, you want the kids to say dada, and they just keep saying mama. I have a, I found some wonderful photos of your childhood, which I adored. Oh my gosh.

Starting point is 01:15:57 All these photos. You probably recognize quite a few of them. Did I post these? Where would you find these? I went through your house. Oh my God, this is my Catholic teacher, kindergarten teacher. This is Fuling. That's Frank Gentile, we talked about earlier. And my friend Steve Tebout. These are my dorm room friends.

Starting point is 01:16:18 I would just stand up with Frank. And Steve was kind of the artist in the group. Is that Gloria underneath? This is Gloria. Yeah, that's my mom. That's my mom in our kitchen. Where we spent many a time. We parted many times in that kitchen. In November 2017 when she passed away, you said, as a tribute on The Tonight Show, which I watched, the best audience, referring to your mother that she was the best audience, she was the one I was always trying to make laugh. Mum, I'll never stop trying to make you laugh. And I

Starting point is 01:16:54 heard you talk about squeezing her hand three times when you're younger and her squeezing yours back. In a fraction of public attention I've experienced, one of the things that acts as an insulator to all of that for me is knowing that I have a home to return to. And home for me isn't a place, it's people, you know? And that's the thing that makes all of the noise feel fake and like it's not real. And that there is something real. And so when I was thinking about all of that and you losing her and her being the audience, her being home for you, I have to understand how that changed you. Yeah, it's the toughest thing that I had to go through, I think.

Starting point is 01:17:41 You know that it's going to come eventually, but it was just, it was just so sad because she was so much joy in my life. I just miss her, you know. But you don't stop thinking about the people, you know. And you think about all these things and you look at all these other photos and you go, yeah, that was probably, she probably gave me the microphone. My mom was probably here giving me the microphone. When you think about people dying, especially when it happens for the first week, you go,

Starting point is 01:18:20 I'm going to forget about them. And I can't. And you go, so sad. And then go, oh, it's so sad. And then the truth is, it's just you don't. You don't forget about them, ever. They will never, they're in your life. You think about them in the weirdest moments. And you'll hear a song, and I'll hear like Duran Duran

Starting point is 01:18:38 or something. I don't even know if my mom liked Duran Duran, but something reminded me of me and my mom listening. And I'll think of my mom. Like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm listening to Hungry Like the Wolf or Rio and I'm thinking about my mom and getting sad. But you do, you have those moments when it's like, but it's more happier at moments and you don't get that emotional, you know. If I want to, I can just start crying because I just miss her. But I think of the best times and I think I wouldn't be who I am without her.

Starting point is 01:19:16 When you say that you miss her, you've said that a few times, what precisely is it that you miss? She had a great sense of humor and she's always, you know, I think there's so many things. Talking about, probably talking about myself a lot. I'm going, did you see the thing I did? What is the thing? Or I want her to bring it up. Like, that thing you did was great. And then it makes you feel good.

Starting point is 01:19:42 So I kind of missed the positive reinforcement, the feedback, positive feedback of something that I did that I kind of miss. And her complaining about something or talking about something she doesn't like. I feel like that would kind of give me material. And I miss calling on my birthdays and she's so much love. She just loved me so much. I do worry about, I worry about this because I think sometimes we don't realize the importance of certain relationships until we lose them and my parents are getting older. And I think

Starting point is 01:20:16 I have some kind of like subconscious existential fear that there will be words unsaid or I will learn the hard way that there's things I should have said, you know? Yeah, yeah, you kind of, yeah. I think I said everything. I think I said everything. Sounds like you spoke to her a lot. I did. I said everything. She knew that I loved her and you know, it just, it kind of happened fast, which I kind of hope, I think that was a good thing. I hope it doesn't happen slow for you,

Starting point is 01:20:47 because I don't know if I could take that. This happened really quickly. And so I was like, whew. Are you able to grieve? Were you able to grieve? Yes, I went for it. My wife is really helpful with that. She was like, go for it.

Starting point is 01:21:00 Just cry and just grieve, because eventually you actually just have to stop crying. There's no way you can keep crying. There's no way. But you feel like there's a hole in your heart and a hole in your lungs. You feel unhealthy and you feel like

Starting point is 01:21:17 you have to go to the hospital, that you're gonna die. You just have to go through that and you go, whew, and then you just get it out of your system. And then, you know, as time goes on, you just start being able to laugh at the things, kind of happy memories, you know, and sad she's not here anymore, but glad for what she gave me and when all the memories, I mean, way outweighs the sad thing. I just wish she wasweighs the sad thing. I just wish it was around as the only thing. If you harp on that, then it's too depressing.

Starting point is 01:21:56 Did it change your perspective on your own work? Because it's funny, I remember thinking about my old business when it was like, it was my entire life. I was thinking, if I lost this person in my life now, I don't know if my business would mean the same to me, because in part I'm doing this for them. Yeah. Yes. You still do it for them. In a weird way, I still do this for my mom. I think of her when I do things. I go, she would be, she would be psyched. She would be proud. That would make her laugh. I still think of her for most things I do. She would love that. That would make her laugh. That would make her proud.

Starting point is 01:22:31 She'd be like, oh, that's funny. Or that's good that you did that. Her loss, you turning 50? Yeah. Putting all these pieces together, it seems like this might've inspired your increased concern and I guess drive for longevity and health. Because we talked just before we started

Starting point is 01:22:51 recording and I asked you what sort of front of mind for you at the moment and one of the things you mentioned was longevity and health. When did that match? Yeah, maybe around, I mean, I'm 50 right now, but I think, you know, I think about my parents, they were never healthy. You know, they used to drink a lot. At the time they smoked, you know, when everyone smoked. I think there's a picture of my mom pregnant with me drinking and smoking, which is fantastic. I mean, gosh, terrible.

Starting point is 01:23:23 But man, I turned out okay, right? Yeah. Blink. Okay, don't we? Listen to this back. Yeah, maybe I didn't turn out. Maybe this is a lesson. But yeah, I think about being around for my kids

Starting point is 01:23:39 and trying to be alive and kind of financially stable for my kids too. Because I don't think my parents thought about any of that stuff. They just go, no, just have, it was a lot of fun and like a lot of support. And like, that was a lot of the thing, you know, but they didn't really, they didn't work out. I think we bought a treadmill twice, you know, different times, just tried to make it something that we would all do and no one ever did it.

Starting point is 01:24:08 So what does that actually mean for you in terms of your longevity and health journey? Does it mean that you're going to the gym, you're thinking about what you're eating? Yeah, I'm definitely eating better. I work out when I can. You know, I walk every day. I love walking. But yeah, I try to, you know, I don't drink as much as I used to. And, you know, I get checkups.

Starting point is 01:24:34 Not that I'm unhealthy, but I think, you know, I just want to be around for a long time. I don't even know how long I wanna live, to be honest. I don't wanna be that old that I'm older than everyone. I mean, I want to have people my age. I don't want to be 130 and no one else is like, dude, that guy won't die. I mean, eventually it should happen.

Starting point is 01:24:57 I just want it to all happen kind of in the right way and then eventually as you go on and they'll pass away. But I want to be able to be enjoying everything now. For anybody that likes matcha, for anybody that likes lattes, one of my companies has just launched canned matcha lattes. And I was speaking with the founder, Marissa, and she said that creating this product

Starting point is 01:25:21 has been no easy feat. They tried launching in 2021 2021 but as is often the case in business the development process turned out to be extremely complex so they've spent the last four years testing and refining every single detail to create this which is a perfected matcha vanilla latte and a perfected matcha strawberry latte. So what we have here in these cans is barista quality matcha straight from the can and it tastes like it's just been made from your favorite cafe. Naturally sweet and naturally creamy in a can and the reason why I've invested in this company and I drink matcha is because matcha as an energy

Starting point is 01:25:56 source gives me lasting energy without the big crashes that I get from other products. Grab their ready to drink canned matcha lattes at Waitrose, Tesco's and Holland & Barrett and perfected.com where you can use code STEPHEN40 for 40% off your first order. Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the dire of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released.

Starting point is 01:26:32 We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never ever released and so much more. In the circle you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview and the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember for now we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you want to join our private close community, head to the link in the description below

Starting point is 01:26:57 or go to DOACcircle.com. I will speak to you then. Is there a next chapter in your mind that you're looking at already? Are you thinking about life beyond TV? Media is changing so much. I mean, you are one of the sort of real pioneers that rode the shift towards the internet and digital and you've got more bloody followers on YouTube and Twitter and Instagram than anybody. I think of them. I think you've got more bloody followers on YouTube and Twitter and Instagram than anybody. I think you've got like a hundred million followers or something crazy. But are you thinking about the next wave of Jimmy? Not really. I feel like this is a good gig for that type of aging.

Starting point is 01:27:41 I think the older you get, the kind of the better the talk show gets. Like you know, Johnny Carson did it for 30 years, I want to say. And you know, I think I can do it as long as there's an audience and I feel like there is always going to be an audience. I feel like I know everyone's like TV is dying, you know, the ratings are dying. But I don't think it is. I think TV is just as powerful as it ever was. I think they're making some of the best entertainment, the best shows are on television.

Starting point is 01:28:13 If you call it something else, if you call it Netflix or if you call it, you know, a live podcast or whatever it is, you're still watching. You need entertainment. And thank God for entertainment because you just find yourself when you're, when you're needing some out, out letter creative or something, or if you're gonna break whatever you wanna call it, meditation, television's there for you.

Starting point is 01:28:37 You can turn on television and watch a movie, watch a show, and you're like, ah, this is great. For an hour of my life, I don't have to think about my problems. I'm thinking about their problems or I'm watching a reality show. Whatever show it is you're watching. But your brain's moving.

Starting point is 01:28:52 It's not your brain's shut off. You're listening to this podcast. It's not, you're not just zoning out going, you're actually thinking while you're listening to this. And this is changing the way you think. You may not agree that I think, you might think, oh, television's over, but that's interesting.

Starting point is 01:29:09 Still, your brain's moving. And this is fun for people to listen to. And this is, I think entertainment is always gonna be there, has to be around. And I think it's just in, it's moving this way and that way, but I still feel like eventually there's a screen in your house or wherever you're living that you're going to want to see things on.

Starting point is 01:29:31 You know, whether it's going to be through your eyeglasses or if it's going to be through your contact lenses or your phone or whatever it is. You know, I don't think it's going to be the Apple goggles, but they have to try. Outside of TV, you're very busy. I was reading through your business portfolio and it's extremely extensive. You founded a production company producing several shows, series, films. You made a comedy, a series of comedy albums. The last one was called the Holiday Seasoning, which it's a Christmas album,

Starting point is 01:30:08 but I wanted to create like a new verb. Like, hey, we're all holiday seasoning. Like, are you holiday seasoning? I'm celebrating Hanukkah. I'm celebrating Kwanzaa. We're all holiday seasoning. It didn't take off, but you know what? Maybe in the future, maybe, you know, at 2050 people will all be saying, hey, are you holiday seasoning? You know, yeah, we're all, I don't know. I didn't, I don't know if I created

Starting point is 01:30:34 what I wanted to about that one. But you got the ice cream, the Tonight Dough. Tonight Dough ice cream. We've raised a lot of money for Serious Fun, which is a great charity. It's a great ice cream, by the way,ious Fun, which is a great charity. It's a great ice cream, by the way, but it actually goes through a great cost. So it's win-win. Beautiful.

Starting point is 01:30:50 I was reading about it before. It's really cool. And outside of that, there's lots of other things from a ride at the Universal Studios to spinnies to… Yeah, we got our own roller coaster. Crazy. Gobstompers, skate shoes. Yes. We got our own roller coaster. Yeah crazy Godstompers, skate shoes. Yes, gobstompers were a sneaker that um

Starting point is 01:31:08 We came up with that the more you wear them the more the leather wears down and they become different colors so eventually every pair of shoes become Unique to that person. There's no two pairs of the same shoe. The through line here, Jimmy, is about making people happy. From rides to ice cream to the creativity and the fun of the products that you've made. That appears to be the through line. I like that. Yeah. But that's the through line of your life in many respects. It's a really relentless attempt to It's a really relentless attempt to please others and to make people smile and to make them happy.

Starting point is 01:31:53 Yeah, I do. I like that. I like making people happy. It makes me happy. And now you've got two beautiful children. It's the greatest thing. You're a dad. It's the greatest thing. I'm a dad. Can you believe that? This guy would be, this guy would be a dad. This guy would be a dad. This is the silliest. And I think I'm a good dad. They're the best kids. I love them so much. They're so fun. They're funny. They make jokes. They're interesting. They're interested. How did that shift the meaning of life for you, becoming a father? Because I'm in the process of hopefully having children at some point, I'm trying. I'll tell you one thing that surprised me.

Starting point is 01:32:32 I don't want to tell you about your own kids, because no spoilers. You're just going to figure it all out. And when they get to a certain age, we'll talk and you'll be like, dude. And they go, yeah, of course. I didn't want to ruin it for you. It's great. It's a lot. It's great.

Starting point is 01:32:51 But the one thing I didn't think would happen to me is I like other kids more. I actually appreciate other kids and they go, hey, are you not sharing with that kid's got no friends? Go talk to that kid. Cause you go, that could happen to me, my kid. So you start thinking about other kids, hey, no, no, no, be nice to him.

Starting point is 01:33:11 Or he's, you know, it's like, you start, and then the screaming baby in the restaurant that once when you were younger, you go like, will you shut that baby up? Now you go like, dude, give me the kid, I'll take the kid for a walk. I will shut the baby, I understand what it's like to get out and be a parent and you don't want the kid to cry.

Starting point is 01:33:29 I understand, I get all that now. And you go, oh, I'm much more patient with that. What advice would you give your two daughters for life? A life well lived. They said, dad, listen, how do we live a good life? Be nice to people. Give when you can. Make people smile.

Starting point is 01:33:56 What if they say, Dad, I want to know how to be successful? Then go do what you want to do. I think that will make you successful. Do what you want to do. If you do what you want to do, you'll be successful. How are you misunderstood? Because we're all misunderstood in some way. You know, maybe someone that laughs at everything. I don't really laugh at everything. I do have a good time, but I don't laugh at everything. I think one way I'm misunderstood is maybe people don't think that I know what I'm doing or that I, you know, I'm just living through life like I don't know what's going on,

Starting point is 01:34:48 but I do know what's going on. And I do care. And I put a lot of work into what I do. And I really put a lot of thought and care into things that I put out. And what does your gravestone say, Jimmy? If you could write it yourself. I would say... He had a good time. That's not bad.

Starting point is 01:35:15 I like that. Jimmy, thank you for doing what you do. It's so unbelievably apparent to me as someone that's just spent a little bit of time for you that in your heart, you are an incredibly pure, well-intentioned, happy, radiant person who has a really authentic desire to spread that to other people and in fact, gains a tremendous amount of energy and happiness from making people like me and everyone that you met in my team behind the scenes happy. And we need more people like that in the world, especially in times like these, where there's so much division and the internet is an absolute war zone.

Starting point is 01:35:59 It feels like everybody's frankly losing, if I'm being honest, because everybody's just firing shots at each other on both sides of the aisle, but just generally just all sides of life. So it's wonderful to have people in the world and safe spaces and fun places that maintain a bubble of happiness and joy and humour. And you're one of those incredible spaces on the internet, but just generally in life as well. So thank you. It's such an honour to have spent time with you and you're someone that I've looked up to forever. You know, you've been on screen for most of my adult life

Starting point is 01:36:27 and I've, before I was interviewing people and I had the privilege of doing this, so you're one of my idols as well. And so thank you for that as well. It's been a tremendous honor and I feel somewhat, it's incredible that I'm like in New York and I'm sat across from you. It's really something special.

Starting point is 01:36:40 Keep doing what you're doing. You're great. You're fantastic. Oh, you're so sweet. I had the greatest time. It was so fun. I want to say thank you to every camera. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have a closing tradition. Oh, where the last guests, yes, leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. And we'll ask you to do the same. The question left for you is an interesting one. It was how would your view of yourself change? And how would your behavior change if you learned beyond doubt that reality is not objective, but exists only in what you do and your actions.

Starting point is 01:37:28 God, the Edibles kicked in whoever wrote that one. It's a deep one. Jesus. I wouldn't be shocked. I wouldn't be shocked. I go, wow. I probably would take credit for it. I'd probably say I knew that. And then you go, wait, what?

Starting point is 01:37:45 You knew that? Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if all of this was just my, based on what I'm doing. It's fascinating. If that's the real truth, how fascinating, what a great experiment this was. And I hope, I can't believe, I hope I passed. And again, I'm a people pleaser. Whoever is playing this game, I hope they're enjoying the game they're playing.

Starting point is 01:38:13 I sometimes think it's a simulation. We think we've banned that as a conversation. And someone's playing us. Yeah, they're just like messing around. It would make sense. Don't you think whoever's playing us is enjoying themselves? We're good characters. Maybe they like started the game and they've like wandered off. And no, it's like Toy Story. They don't play us anymore.

Starting point is 01:38:34 Yeah, they just like they're off doing something and they're like forgot and we're like fucking around. Yeah. And then they go, I didn't play that in so long. Jimmy Fallon game? Oh, good. No, we don't. I don't play that game anymore.

Starting point is 01:38:43 Yeah. No, I had him create a business. But they forgot to turn it off? Oh, good. No, I don't play that game anymore. Yeah. No, I had him create a business. But they forgot to turn it off. Oh my gosh. But yeah, well, hopefully that you don't have to use, you don't have to play me anymore. I'm going to get to the next level. You will. Jimmy, thank you. The best. This is so fun.

Starting point is 01:38:59 Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. I love this. You're awesome. Thank you so much. Pleasure playing. Thanks for having me in your kitchen. Thank you. Oh my god. Really, I like what you've done with the place. This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to the show regularly

Starting point is 01:39:13 haven't yet subscribed to the show. So could I ask you for a favor? If you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us, the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do.

Starting point is 01:39:35 Thank you so much. Thanks for watching!

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