The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Moment 110- The Unknown And Surprising Power Of Physical Touch: Dacher Keltner

Episode Date: May 19, 2023

How would you like to increase you life expectancy, be happier and have less stress? According to Professor Dacher Keltner, one of the world’s leading emotion scientists, the solution is as simple as reaching out. In this moment, Professor Keltner discusses the awesome power of touch and the devastating impacts of living without it. Through evolution humans are built for touch and connection, this can be seen all over our bodies from our hands, skin and brain. However, in the current pandemic of loneliness millions of people are missing out on its benefits. Ultimately Professor Keltner believes we need to remove our suspicions of touch and see it for what it is: a foundational language that all human speak and feel. Listen to the full episode here -https://g2ul0.app.link/04wJkhTdUzb Dacher: https://www.dacherkeltner.com Watch the Episodes On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDiaryOfACEO/videos My new book! 'The 33 Laws Of Business, Marketing & Life' per order link: https://smarturl.it/DOACbook

Quick one, just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio.

And thirdly to Amazon Music who, when they heard that we were expanding to the United States and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. I have some breaking news. And no, this is an emergency. I've spent the last two years writing a book and I've written 33 laws for business, marketing and life that are derived from all of these conversations I've had here. I traveled the world to write this book. I interviewed some of the most incredible people. I did six months of extensive research on scientific studies and principles to corroborate everything that I wrote into these 33

laws. And ladies and gentlemen, that book called The Diary of for pre-order. And there are 5,000, only 5,000 signed copies. And it's first come first serve. The link is in the bio right now. So if you want that book, honestly, it's the best book I've ever written. It's the book I always should have written. It's the book I also wish someone had written for me when I was starting out in my career. I'm really proud of it. I'm really, really proud of it. Really, really proud of it. And I can't wait for all of you to get to read it. It's out in August. I couldn't be more excited about this as you can probably tell. I don't know what to say other than the words I've said to emphasise my excitement because I think it's important and I think it's really valuable um link in the description i was blown away um when reading your your work and watching videos that you produced

about um so many things the one of the real startling things is the the power of touch yeah i read i read um that if you pat a kid on the back in the classroom, that child is three to five times more likely to try hard problems on the blackboard and that touch can make you live longer and be less stressed. Just someone touching you. Yeah. Is that true? Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, touch in a lot of mammalian species, including humans is just just connection. It's identity. It's I'm with you. You think early in life, we are constantly being held and in skin-to-skin contact with our caregivers. It's foundational. It's where my sense of me and you connection emerges. The physiology of touch is mind-blowing. know, our hands are incredible. They're

spectacular, you know, evolutionary adaptations that can do all kinds of things, including touch. Our skin, eight pounds, billions of cells, our immune system is in the skin. You know, it registers touch in many different ways from the sexual to the friendly, to the cooperative, goes up into the brain and says, man, you're being touched in this way. And, and that has direct effects on your immune system and your vagus nerve and your heart rate and the health of your body. And so, you know, early discoveries, you know, you have premature babies, they're going to die. And, And they used to just put them in these little sort of units that warm them and had them sort of be comfortable and fed and they would die.

And then they figured out you got to hold the premature baby. They needed skin to skin contact, they need food, right? And they live, they gain 47% weight gain. And then, you know, there are just studies time and time again, you know, a nice hug, lower cortisol, nice embrace with somebody, elevated vagal tone. The studies that you referred to of, you know, patting kids on the back, they do better in school. You know, andting kids on the back, they do better in school,

you know, and it's so interesting parts of English culture, you know, Victorian culture, Western European culture, they came up with the idea like touch is sexual, it's you gotta get it and it is, but only certain kinds of touch are sexual. There's a lot of friendly touch we need, right? And it just shut it down. And now it's coming back.

It's, thank goodness. It's good for us. We talked before we started filming about the study with the recess monkeys. Yeah. I can't remember who the researcher was, but I was saying to you that- Harlow.

Harlow, that was it, yeah. How that was mind blowing to me at 16 to learn that they put these monkeys in these cages. They had like a pretend wire mother, so a mother made out of like metal. And then they had another one made out of like cloth. Yeah, yeah. Like a mother made out of cloth,

which was essentially a teddy bear. And there was huge variance between the outcomes of those kids, right? Yeah, I mean, if you deprive those monkeys of the nice touch, they don't learn how to behave socially effectively. If you give them a choice between a wire monkey mother that provides milk and then a terrycloth one, they always hang around the terrycloth one, right?

They just love the social contact. If you deprive non-human primates of touch, they are almost schizophrenic or psychopathic, or they're just like aggressive. They can't handle social interactions. You know, orphans deprived of touch, famous orphan studies, you know, and humans, same thing. They just like, they don't become human in some way, or they are human, but they have trouble with social contact. Yeah. You know, I mean, part of the questioning that you're engaging in, Stephen, of the literature is like, well, what can I do just to live a more meaningful life? And, you know, from gratitude to kindness,

to find some, oh man, you know, if you're not hugging people you love, if you're not, if you don't have a rich language of touch with your friends, you know, I learned it playing pickup basketball. Basketball, which is the, I believe the most fascinating sport in human history, it has this amazing language of touch, you know, and it's unique to the court, right? You're fist bumping, chest bumping and the like. If you're not doing that with your friends, you're missing out on one of the great languages of human kind, which is to be in contact with each

other. So, you know, parents, you know, when you have kids, and I hope some of your listeners are doing that, you know, it's this mystery, like, should they take naps on my body? Should we, how should I hold them? Should I carry them in public? Am I indulging them? And I think the more friendly, kind touch, the better. So we're moving back to where we began evolutionarily. And I think it'll be a good thing. What if I'm touching a dog? Does it have the same effect? Yeah, I mean, dogs evolved because we love them

and they love us. And there's all this new, amazing dog science where, this is one of my favorite studies, and touch releases oxytocin, which is this little chemical that floats in your brain and your blood, and it helps you be kind to other people and cooperate. And there are now studies from Japan showing, you may do this with your dog, Steven, where if you look into the eyes of your dog, your dog will have a surge of oxytocin and you will have a surge of oxytocin. So, so it's like all of this social stuff that's so simple of eye contact and touch

brings us good things, even with our dogs. It makes me kind of realize two things. The first is that men tend to be stereotypically much worse at that. Yeah. Much worse at touch. We don't, we, we do the the like the macho hug where you're like on the back you know like when you pat them on the back it's like get the fuck off me um we're we're less good at even things like eye contact and sort of emotional engagement and then you look at the stats around male suicides and all of those you know uh drug addiction and all those things and it's significantly higher yeah i believe the stats say that the biggest killer of men under the age of 40 is themselves

in this country yeah by suicide um and they really need feels like there needs to be a reversal of that yeah the adjacent point is just the one we talked about earlier which is just loneliness yeah and now it kind of makes sense as to why if you are lonely you have a significantly worth worse health outcomes um and a shorter life expectancy because you're not getting the compassion the touch you're not you're probably experiencing less or gratitude etc yeah um and i feel like we have to we have to talk about how we fix that yeah like you know because some of the saddest moments i can i think about when i've had private conversations are men coming up to me after like a talk on stage and whispering to me that the part i said about me being lonely when i was

like 23 24 and i'd given everything just for this business coming to the office every day sacrifice friendships family relationships i'll have men come up to me and whisper to me that that was the part that they needed to hear the most, but then asking me what they can actionably do to fix that. Yeah. As if they don't want the group around me to hear that they are lonely. Yeah. And they want to do something about it. They are sat on their computers, often playing video games or on the internet, struggling to attract, you know, maybe the

opposite sex or the same sex or whatever, whatever they're interested in. And it feels like it's going in one negative direction generally. I mean, the stats kind of support the fact that we're getting lonelier and lonelier. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those are such deep insights, um, and, uh, really worth thinking more concretely about what to do. I think that the, you know, kind of the gender complexities here are really striking, right? Men live significantly fewer years than women in most Western globalized cultures. And I think you're on a really interesting hypothesis, Stephen, which is that, you know, if the gender stereotypes and these rigid concepts and then the lives we lead don't allow us to hug and feel grateful and feel empathetic, it countervails that. And those are gender stereotypes, right?

Oh, if I practice compassionate work, I'll be weak and I won't rise. That's not true. That's a gender stereotype. And it denies men disproportion of this opportunity for these emotions, right? And that, you know, with new conceptions of gender, new ideas about work is changing dramatically. That will shift. And I think it'll be good news for the health of men. And then loneliness. Loneliness, in some sense, is the deprivation of everything we've been talking about. It's that you don't get to hug somebody like you would like

to every day, and that you don't hear the words of appreciation. William James, you know, the deepest craving we have is to be appreciated by other people. You don't hear it. You don't hear the thank you. You don't get to go out and feel awe with somebody or feel kindness. You know, so I think we have to think very actively about building these emotions into those contexts. In the United States, there are 35,000 long-term care facilities. The elderly in the United States, a lot of them live alone. You know, when people from India see how we treat the elderly or people from Mexico, it's just like the unhoused.

They're like, what are you guys doing? You know, you're taking the vulnerable and sort of shunting them off alone. But these emotions point to really direct, actionable things to do, right? With all practices and compassion. So it gives me hope, but we've got, you know, I think in part historically,

we took these pro-social emotions out of our lives, right? And now we got to build them back in. And if we do, it's good for not just ourselves, but it's good for the reciprocance of those emotions. You know, hugging my dad or hugging my mom or hugging anybody is a mutually beneficial behavior in terms of all the, you know, life expectancy, happiness, reduction in stress. And not only that, but, you know, I just heard 50% of US healthcare expenses are on the last five years of life when a lot of those people are living alone and feeling lonely. And there are simple ways to address that as we've been talking about.

So there's a bottom line that's really relevant here too. And then the bit I imagine a lot of people will, especially those that are much more spiritually inclined will love is the idea of that karma and how, you know, if I hug one person or if I'm kind to some person or express that gratitude or compassion, it has this sort of cascading knock-on effect and how they go through the day. So like in that sense, karma is a very real thing. It's very real. Yeah. In every respect, even in the concept of gossip, where how you treat someone will spread. I think you said in your book that when we treat someone badly,

people on average gossip that bad treatment to 2.5 people or something to that, which is, you know, which is slightly terrifying, but it's, but it makes sense. Yeah. You know, it's in part of our theme and our conversation is how we're all connected and united in these, these super organisms, some people call them, through practicing gratitude and sharing resources that spreads through these social networks. And then the compliment is also true, which is, you know, and as much as I don't like gossip and I didn't like being gossiped about, it's a human universal. It can be horrifying and we've got to worry about it, like online catfights and

it escalates. But we study these social groups and the thing that people really gossip about is when you're not kind, right? They're like, look at what that person just said, these harsh things that spreads through the network. And it tries to keep those problematic tendencies in check.