The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Moment 138: The Power of Letting Go & Embracing the Unknown Bozoma Saint John

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

In this moment, the American businessperson and marketing executive, Bozoma Saint John discusses how to find your destiny. Bozoma says that too often people say that they just ‘fell into’ the job or industry they are in, when in fact she believes that this is destiny coming to find you and that we are constantly creating our destiny. She says that we underestimate the power of letting go of control (which is not the same as surrendering or giving up) as a way of opening up to different possibilities and routes to finding our destiny. As too often we bang our heads against closed doors, when instead there is an open door that is open on a different route. To realise this, she says we need to treat our powers of intuition like a muscle, ignoring external voices and opinions, training and growing your intuition to the point where you can have 100% faith in whatever it is telling you. Listen to the full episode here -  https://g2ul0.app.link/q9EARBxJ9Eb Watch the Episodes On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/%20TheDiaryOfACEO/videos Bozoma: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com https://www.instagram.com/badassboz/?hl=en

Quick one, just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio.

And thirdly to Amazon Music who, when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. Your first sort of real significant career move seemed to be this encounter with Spike Lee's agency. Yeah. So for people that don't know, who is Spike Lee?

Okay. And how did that happen? Spike Lee is blackity blackity black, first of all. All the blackness. No, but he is a film director, really, at his core. Filmmaker, let's call it that, because he certainly produces and does other things and writes. But he has an advertising agency in New York. When I was there, it was on Madison Avenue.

So Madison Avenue is like the place for advertising in the world, right? It's the place where the show mad men was made from so ddb is one of the biggest agencies and spike had a jv with them what brought you to new york in the first place um curiosity i was i graduated from wesley university which was in milltown connecticut and um it was just time to apply to med school. And I really didn't want to. And New York was right there. It was like an hour and a half from school. And I really didn't have a plan. I just went, trying to escape what I thought was my destiny. And like many people say, I think sometimes in this business, I kind of fell into this.

But I think my destiny actually came to find me. That's what it was. I opened up and allowed for something greater that I didn't even know was possible to find me instead. So many people are in that chapter of their life where they're trying to find their destiny or trying to help, trying to figure out a way to let their destiny find them yeah when you look back and connect the dots as to how your career came to be and you think about that first moment where you you know you went to New York and then you're on Madison Avenue you're working for Spike Lee and you find you find your destiny or it finds you if you're if your daughter comes to you and says mum what advice have you got for me on finding my

destiny like what have I got to do to actively bring it about have you ever heard that statement like let go and let god no have you heard that before no it's a very christian thing i feel like in the like black church there's a lot of that let go and let god you know as if god is just gonna just sprinkle magic dust over you you know and i'm like no i don't i don't necessarily believe that just as a plain statement i think the letting go is an action you know it's not surrender it's like you just lay down and it's gonna find you you're not gonna find your destiny sitting on the couch you know the letting go for me is like the letting go of preconceived ideas about what it is that you are going to do letting go of sometimes you're like trying to do something

and keep hitting a wall you know you're just like oh if i just hit it one more time it's gonna break sometimes it's like you know that's a cement right? If you just move five feet to the right, it's actually plaster and you're gonna go right through it. You know, it's like, sometimes it's the letting go of this thought that you had, which is like, oh, I'm going to do this thing right here is the magic. And I'll tell you this, look, it didn't just happen at that stage of my life. It's happening right now where, you know, I'm like, okay, well, I think I am done with my corporate CMO work.

I believe I'm finished. So I'm going to let go. Let go of it. I'm not going to be actively looking for the next CMO job. I want whatever is coming for me to come. I'm going to allow space for it. Now, it doesn't mean I'm just sitting around. I'm also trying to polish other skills. I'm trying to create, because perhaps the next thing that's coming is somewhere more in that space. I can feel it like in my spirit and that understanding of like your intuition. And if you're listening to it, it's like a magnet. It's going to just draw you closer to the thing that you're supposed to do. And it has happened every single time, like every time, without fail. Like every job, every move I've made hasn't been because somebody said, oh,

you know what? This makes logical sense. One plus one equals two. Sometimes I'm just like, but it's not math though. You know, it's physics. It's not the addition, it's the subtraction. I'm just going to sit here and I'm going to sit here and I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go talk to this person and I'm gonna talk to that person I'm gonna sit back down again and I'm gonna write this thing out then like magic I don't know how else to describe it it's like the destiny appears I'm telling you every time it has happened every single time even when people were like, oh, that is never going to happen. Like you're wasting your time. I don't know why you'd go over there and do that.

I'm like, I don't know. Something, something inside. I'm telling you, telling me that this is the way to go. I'm going to go over there. Every time it's worked. But do you believe, so there's a lot there for me. There's a lot that I'm interested in there. Do you believe, because I want to be clear,

are you, because some people hear that and go, ha ha, love that. Everything happens for a reason. I'm going to chill. And my fate is pre-written and it's coming for me. Bo said, all I got to do is wait. And it's going to, because everything happens for a reason. It's pre-written.

So I just got to pay these tarot cards and I'm going to. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. is wait and it's gonna because everything happens for a reason it's pre-written so i just gotta this is when i start banging on the table no no no just chill here no no no no chilling here okay i think you're probably talking my energy i'm not one of those chilling here type people anyway you know um and i don't believe things are pre-written actually like for me the idea of destiny isn't that something is already predetermined for you i think you create your destiny also you know meaning that like look there was a movie in the in the late 90s called sliding doors starred gwyneth paltrow um the concept is basically like, you know, if you're running for the train and you catch it, you know, you jump inside, you have one destiny. If the door is closed,

you still stand on platform, then you have to catch the next train. It takes you to a different destiny. That's the concept, right? It is what I also believe, which is that like my destiny is not pre-written, but the movements that I make are what lead me to the thing that's actually for me. You know, and so it's a constant evolution. So I don't believe that you have to sit and wait for it. I think your constant movement, your constant discovery is actually what then brings the destiny to you. So this isn't about predetermined anything or just like, let me just chill out on. Like I said, you can't sit on the couch and expect your destiny to come for you. So it's not reading my horoscope.

No. Tarot cards. No disrespect to the tarot card readers. But I do believe that we are constantly creating our destiny. You know, that this life that we're living, these experiences, the people we're meeting, the people you're in relationships with, it happens because there's a certain action that you take that leads you to that thing. Now it's your choice whether or not you take it. And then that's when the whole intuition thing comes up for me, right? Because I'm like, now, you may have caused a lot of action. And then you have a couple of choices

in front of you. Where are you going? Which one is calling you? And you know what people like to do. They want to write pro and con lists. They want to ask people for advice. Do you think I should do this or should I do that? Both of these are good. Why are you asking other people? They don't know. They're not living your life. They don't have the whole destiny. They have their own thing. Like, why are you asking them? And if you got quiet for a second and heard your intuition, but then again, sometimes people are scared, scared right because it's telling you do something that you probably don't want to do you're a little scared of it and then you're gonna choose the wrong thing it's hard to hear your intuition when george is very loudly telling you yes ge. George being your father. Yes.

And everyone can relate. There's always an external voice, which is very loud, whether it's social expectation or Instagram or George. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Saying that this is the right thing to do. So how do you tune into your intuition and out of George? It's like any muscle. You know, it's like, look, we all have biceps.

But some people's biceps are enormous. Thank you. That was good. That was super smooth. That was really nice. Nicely done. But it is like any muscle, you know, you gotta work it. You've gotta listen to it. You have to make it brave to talk to you.

You know, I kind of feel like, um, it's like that friend now, that's not about multiple personalities, but you know, it's like that friend who's talking to you inside your head, you know, and like, if you keep dissing it and keep being like, shut up, no, that's a bad idea. If you keep doing that, that voice can get quieter and quieter. What makes you think it's going bad idea if you keep doing that that voice can get quieter and quieter what makes you think it's gonna ever be like listen Bose I told you no look my intuition is so loud oh there's no way oh I meet people and we'll be like that person's not for me and no by the way somebody else will, oh, that is a very powerful person.

You know, they'll introduce you to this other person or, oh, they're so smart. They've done this and that and that and that and that. Not for me. So I'm not even going to engage. Like my intuition is that strong. I trust it 100%. Because you've had to train it, right? Yes. Yes. I've had to train it, right? Yes. Yes.

I've had to, I've had to allow it to lead me. Is that because of what you said earlier about the survival and the pattern recognition is developed now where you can kind of, you see a couple of cues, your intuition goes, oh, we met this person a couple of times. Yes. And it never ended well. Yes. That's part of for sure. Like, throughout my life, I've had to listen to my intuition, allow it to lead me, even when other people were like, no, whether it was my dad or a friend or a mentor, a boss. You know, when they've been like, no, that's not the thing you want to do. You should do this. This will be more successful for you.

And then my intuition was like, actually, I don don't think so i think you need to go this way it is so hard i'm not pretending as if like this is the easy thing where it's like oh just listen to your intuition be fine thing is dumb hard you know it's like look because sometimes the logic makes a lot more sense than your intuition. And so I'm not saying that it's easy, but it is the only choice if you want to be successful. And successful to me these days means that I am happy and at peace and enjoying the thing I'm doing.

It's no longer about the title or the house or the thing. Do I have freedom? Oh, man. Like, and freedom isn't just like, I can do whatever the hell I want. Freedom is that, like, I can be working on a campaign and not sleep for three days because I'm so excited about it. That's the kind of freedom I'm talking about. Like, really enjoying the things that I'm doing. And if I am listening to my intuition, it's going to lead me to those opportunities that allow me to have that kind of experience with people or with jobs or whoever.

It's such an important question. I don't think people ask themselves there, which is, what is your definition of success? And I know it's kind of like a fluffy question or whatever else, but once you have that as your North Star, it completely changes your direction of travel. So that central question, I think, and everyone listening to this now, what is truly your definition of success? Because if you're not clear on it, someone else is gonna write that definition for you.

And it might be George, you know what I mean? Yes, or anybody else. Or someone else. You know what I mean? Or Instagram might write it for you. Or your partner. And you're gonna go down that path and find yourself lost.

Oh my God. And it will just be go down that path and find yourself lost. Oh, my God. And it will just be a feeling inside your chest that says, we made a wrong turning. Every time. You know, sometimes that shows up in the Sunday scaries. Oh, my God. Yeah. It shows up there.

We were having a conversation about this on Sunday. We were like, isn't it strange that it's Monday tomorrow and none of us have crossed any of our minds? Exactly. Or freaked out about it. God's like man when i when i started recognizing that sunday scares were tied to my wrong turns guess who jumped into the driver's seat real quick me you know it's like look and again we're not saying, we're not making light of it and being like,

oh, this is so easy, just change direction, you know? But it's so helpful when you recognize it and then you're like, oh, okay, now I can do something about this. You know, it's like, right? Isn't that the first step of like any problem solving is to recognize the problem? Yeah.

Do you think life, like Sunday Scaries is a signal. Oh man, I'm telling you. And it's a signal and it's a very important signal and it's screaming at you. So loud, so loud. And the thing is that, think about Sunday Scaries in relationship to anything in your life. When you are in a relationship, let's say romantic, and you have to go hang out with that person, and you're not feeling so cute about it, might be time for you to reevaluate

whether or not this relationship is good for you. You know, it's like, you should be feeling the like, oh, I really wanna go do this thing with this person. You know? And for me, it's not even about length of time because, you know, marriage is not something where it's like people tell you all the time it's so hard and it's like, you know, you'll fall out of love with this person and then fall back in love with them and da-da-da-da. It's like, I'm not talking about like the fickleness of your everyday feelings.

I'm talking about like the consistency of a mood that you are in when you are in the presence of that person. Like, do you feel great? Do you have ickiness when you're with them? Like that, ooh, ooh, that's a Sunday scary that you need to watch out for. So it's not just about like, am I going to wake up and go to work tomorrow at a job I hate? I apply that to everything in my life. And that's the kind of freedom that I want in my life. That like, I don't engage with people that I feel the ickiness with.