The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Moment 202: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People...

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

What does it take to survive in the Mafia? Former Colombo crime family captain Michael Franzese reveals the inner workings of the mob, from secret rituals to the ruthless code of loyalty. He shares how he built a fortune, the lessons he learned, and why he ultimately left that life behind. Listen to the full episode here - Spotify- https://g2ul0.app.link//uoSwtN5KkRb Apple -  https://g2ul0.app.link//t6yWwccLkRb Watch the Episodes On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/%20TheDiaryOfACEO/videos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My dad was involved in 30, 35 murders. Now, he never admitted that to me about anyone in particular. He was indicted for one murder and he was acquitted in that case, found not guilty. But my dad was, he was a tough guy. There's no question. So. If he was involved in 35 murders, as the FBI suggests, do you think he was better off behind bars? as the FBI suggests, do you think he was better off behind bars? What I'm getting at here really is if they framed him, was it a net benefit to society

that they framed him? Well you know, Steve, let me, I know this is going to be a tough one, but let me tell you how I think. The right and just side of me, the legally just side of me says that the government is never allowed to break the law, to uphold the law. Because if you allow that to happen, then it falls into monarchy and people are not protected. Because if they do it against sunny franzes, they can do it against anybody.

So I believe strictly the government has enough tools and weapons to get people the right way. And they do 96, 97% of the time. They shouldn't be allowed to violate the law to go after a criminal. That's my feeling on it. Now, another thing is this. People think when we take an oath, the oath of Omerita, it's an oath to stay silent. It's not an oath to lie, steal, cheat, and kill. Does that happen as part of that light? Yes. But we're told straight out. Now, try to understand the thinking here.

You come into that life, you're told straight out, we have rules. You don't ever violate another man's wife, daughter, sister, girl, never. That'll cause you to die. During my era, we weren't allowed to deal with drugs. You deal with drugs, you get caught, you die. You maybe do some other things, you're not honest with people, you disrespect somebody, you hit another maid guy, you die. Now, we understand that, and they tell you, your best friend may be the one that pulls the trigger, because the life comes before anything.

That's it. You don't violate the rules. That's how we maintain control in this life. That's how we existed for 100 years. And that's how it's going to stay. So now you're saying, OK, we all agreed to this. We all admitted it. If one of us decides to violate the policy of the law and we get caught, well, we understand

the consequences. So that's how I looked at it, and that's how I justified it. Now does that say you can go out and start to do random killings? No. If the boss tells you to go kill somebody because he doesn't like them and you do it, that's not right. But if we kill our own, and you know, you hear a lot of times, well, we only kill our own.

Well, we don't only kill our own. But if we only kill our own knowing that we made that choice, well, then okay, I kind of get it in a way, even though murder is murder and it's a crime and it's sinful and I understand that. But that's how you justify it. But it wasn't the case that you only killed your own. Well, for some of us it was, and for others it was not. And I've seen both sides of that.

You've never talked about having to kill someone, have you? No. Why is that? It's just not a subject I care to get into. Listen, I like to be as honest as I possibly can because I am a Christian and you don't want to lie to people, but it's not something I want to talk about. I was wondering because when I read that, I thought maybe it's because, you know, there's something might be legal retribution. Maybe it's because, you know, it's not nice for

people to hear about. Maybe it's because there's still some kind of like rule where you can't say anything. But I wondered why. Maybe it's all of the above. I don't know. Well, you know, Steve, look, there's guys, there's a lot of guys on the street now. And if you go on YouTube, you'll see a number of them. And they've admitted to murders that they were involved in. These are made guys, and they've admitted to it. And many of them had struck a deal with the government. They had immunity for the crimes they committed, even murder.

I mean, the government give you immunity for murder if they want you to cooperate and help them out. It's amazing, but they'll do it. And And so they have immunity they could talk about their crimes. I didn't cooperate to that level at all I don't have immunity for anything that I've done in the past, you know And listen, you know our laws here in the United States if you were standing next to somebody when they murdered somebody else You're there you could you could be charged for murder the same way to them So, you know, I'm a saint I ever was in that position. I'm just saying that's the law. So, you know why talk about it number one and number two Murder is ugly

You know, it's it's ugly and you don't ever want to talk about it I mean, I don't if I were to do something like that. I wouldn't be proud of it I'm not trying to throw my chest out and say, hey, look what I could do. Guys go to war, they kill people all the time, you know, in defense of our country or defense of... So, I mean, it's not like, oh God, you know, nobody... I mean, murder happens every single day. Who wants to talk about it? Some people do. I know, not me. You got closer to the Mafia when your father was sent down,

and this was the point where you decided not to go to school. The boss of the Colombo family brings you close, brings you under his wing. Do you have to do some kind of training or something to join the Mafia, or is there any? Or you do? Oh, yeah. Well, when you come in, here's what happened. I leave there, a captain in the family picked me up and took me to see the boss. Now, unfortunately, Joe Colombo was

assassinated. He was shot, seriously wounded. He lingered for about seven years, and then he died as a result of these wounds. So a new boss took over, and he's passed away now. And I sat with him. This was about two weeks after my father sent word downtown that he was proposing me to be part of that life. You can't just go up to somebody and say, I'd like to join. Somebody has to propose you, vouch for you, say you have what it takes. There's a lot of nepotism in that life. A lot of fathers brought their sons in, their nephews, whatever. So in my case, it was my dad that proposed me. And so I sat with the boss and he said to me, here's the deal, you want to become a member of

our life. Your father sent the message. Is that true? And I said, yes. He said, well, here's the deal. From now on, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you're on call to serve this family, the Colombo family. That means if your mother is sick and she's dying, you're at her bedside, we call you to service, you leave your mother, you come and serve us. From now on, we're number one in your life before anything and everything. When and if we feel you've deserved this privilege, this honor to become a member, we'll let you know. That's it.

And do you accept that? And I said, yes, I do. And so for the next two and a half years, I was in like a recruit pledge period where I had to do anything and everything I was told to do, prove myself worthy. It could have been something very menial, a lot of discipline in that life, a lot of authority, a lot of alleged respect. You had a meeting at 8 o'clock, you weren't there at 7.30, you were late. Can never be late in that life.

I don't care what the situation is. You had a meeting at 8 o'clock, if there was traffic and you were concerned, come the night before and sleep in the car. Can never be late, no excuses. Drive the bus to a meeting, sit in the car three, four, five hours, God forbid you leave. You go to the restroom, get a newspaper. He comes out, you're not there.

Oh my gosh, we could have had trouble. You were the getaway driver, you weren't there. I know I did that once and I paid the price for it. That's very serious stuff. You paid the price? Well, paid the price. In other words, I got a real good tongue lashing. I'll tell you, you know You know just stuff like that. They kind of put you on the shelf for two weeks You know to make you understand the seriousness of what you did. So you never do it again You never repeat your mistakes in that life

If you're smart you want to if you want it number one want to survive and number two you want to move up You never repeat your mistakes. So you know, things like that. And then look, I'm going to be honest with you, you know, as honest as I possibly can. It's a violent life at times. If you're part of the life in some shape or form, you're part of the violence. And if anybody tells you differently, they're either not being honest or they weren't a made member of that life.

And that's just how it goes. Why did you say that? Because you said, you said the menial and weren't a made member of that life. And that's just how it goes. Why'd you say that? Cause you said, you said the menial and then you said it's a violent life. Are you saying that in that sort of probationary two years, you had to do both of those things, you had to be involved in the violence and do the menial stuff. Let's put it this way. They got to have enough faith in you that you can be capable of doing

whatever it is they tell you to do. They have to understand that and feel that, because if they don't feel that, you're not going anywhere. That's it. So during that time, you're going to be tested. And you were tested? Yeah. When they made you pledge that if your mother was dying and you were at her bedside and they called you and asked you to do something, you'd leave, would you have that if your mother was dying and you were at her bedside and they called you and asked you to do something, you'd leave, would you have left if your mother was dying?

Back then, I mean, I might have. I mean, you know, I was a play-by-the-rule guy. You know, I... You know, I was very fortunate in that I had a great teacher in my dad. He was a student and master of the life. And so... And I was like a sponge. I absorbed whatever my dad told me, I listened. And you know, some of the things that he told me

were right, so I might have at the time. I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean, I don't know. It would have to depend on what's happening at that moment. But you know, I was so indoctrinated into that life at some point, it know, I was so indoctrinated into that life at some point. It's who I was. Sounds a bit like a cult, in a way. It's cult-like, I guess, you know, in a way. I mean, we didn't do silly things, you know, we wouldn't have rituals and ceremonies other than

that one. Yeah. Other than that one, nothing after that. But what did it teach you about people skills? Because you're around these bosses, these very talented men, you're seeing how they conduct themselves, do business, influence people, win friends. What did that phase of your life teach you about how to be a motivator, manipulator of people? Yeah, it taught me well. I think I got it. You know, there's kind of two levels in that life. You're either a racketeer or you're a gangster.

What's the difference? I'll tell you the difference. A gangster is a guy that really doesn't know how to use that life to benefit him in business. So he's more of a, I don't want to say tough guy, I don't want to say the term, but he's more of a guy that, hey, we had something done, this is the guy, send him out, let him do it,

because you've got to earn your keep in that life. We in the Colombo family, we had 115 made guys at that time. Out of the 115, 20 of us were really earning money and supporting the family in some way and really elevating the family. We were racketeers. Now a gangster could never really be a racketeer, he just doesn't know how. But a racketeer has to be a gangster also because you're going to be called upon. Not as much as this guy, but when you're called upon you got to do it. So, you know, I was more of a racketeer. And as a result of that, I was constantly in business disputes and sitting down with

other guys. And you have to learn, you know, how to negotiate. I mean, I learned the art of negotiation at these sit downs, you know, learned how to try to, you know, really before I walk into a meeting with somebody, number one, try to know the personality of that person. Know if there's a fallback position, if I'm not winning, what I'll accept. And so I had to prepare myself for these meetings because unprepared, you know, they'll chew you up because a lot of these old timers were very skillful.

And believe me, you could be 100% right and end up wrong, and they'll put you in a trap. So you really had to know what you were doing. And so my people skills in that regard, as far as negotiating and identifying a true leader, were really honed to a high degree because I came out on top many, many times.