The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Moment 27 - How To Become The Person You Want To Be: Prof. Steve Peters

Episode Date: October 14, 2021

In these ‘Moment’ episodes of my podcast, I’ll be selecting my favourite moments from previous episodes of The Diary Of A CEO. Steve Peters is a doctor, a psychiatrist, a professor and a mental coach for the world’s top athletes and business leaders. He’s also the author of “The Chimp Paradox”, which has sold millions of copies worldwide and put forward the groundbreaking ‘Chimp model’ for understanding how our brains work. In this moment episode, Steve helps us understand how our brains work and reveals what is actually driving us to do what we do and be who we are. Episode 96 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDDNI3irZMg Steve: https://chimpmanagement.com/professor-steve-peters/

Quick one, just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio.

And thirdly to Amazon Music who, when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. The mind isn't one entity working. So when I ask people about self-image, I'm now going to split the mind a bit and say, what is the self-image that you feel you would like to have and that you are aiming to present to the world? And what's the genetic self-image that your mind is giving you and the mind interpreting? Hence, I started saying you

have this circuitry, which is rational and logical, looking at the facts, and you have a circuitry, which is emotionally based. So it's not logic and emotion. It's logically based with emotion, and it's emotion based with logic. And we don't control that. So if I try, that's detail, I had to listen to that one again, is what I'm saying is we have control over the circuitry, which I call the human circuits, and your self-image then might be that I'm a compassionate guy, that I'm a trustworthy person, that I always give 100%. This is what your self-image could be when I discuss with you and your circuits are responding. However, if you've moved the blood supply and oxygen uptake into what I'm calling the chimp circuits, circuits which are quite primitive but think, you don't have any control over that.

So they will generate thinking. And the chimp circuits may give a very different answer because they're much more likely to be emotional and say how you feel about yourself rather than the reality so the feeling could be the reality but it's it's likely not to be so we get two images from two different circuits you know in the world we live in especially you know the social media world it feels like our drives and our values are somewhat um sometimes handed to us and we don't even know that something isn't our true sort of intrinsic driver

or values but because of i don't know a desire to be to fit in or to be to gain approval from people we take it up as a value of our own or or we say if we're asked that that's something that drives us but it's not so we might say we want to be we want a lamborghini or we want to be a public speaker or whatever but really probably underpinning that is our desire to be we want a lamborghini or we want to be a public speaker or whatever but really probably underpinning that is our desire to be um to get recognition and to to be loved i don't know um but how do you go about understanding what your true drivers are in life and not the things that you say just uh yeah this is where when i looked at this as i I say, a long time back, you start to see that if you ask people, which is what I do, to put away everything and just get a blank piece of paper, that's my start.

My starting point is always write down the perfect person you want to be, because this now excludes any of the drives. And a lot of what you're talking about is actually behaviors attached to drives. They're not true drives. Drives are things like the need to eat, the need to have security. These are drives, the need to be a parent. And we have these compulsive driving forces within us that get us out of our seat and make us find something. Whereas gaining approval from people

is actually based in the orbital frontal cortex, the chimp again, where it's terrified of being excluded from the troop. So a chimpanzee in the wild must be part of a troop, otherwise the leopard's waiting. So lots of eyes protect you. So the chimpanzee has an inbuilt need to be with other chimps. And in order to do that, it must prove to the other chimps that it's worthy.

Because if it isn't, they could exclude it, which would be death. So we carry that drive still that we need to be approved. The problem uh the chimpanzee's got it right we've got it wrong the chimpanzee recognizes anyone only wants approval from its immediate troop whereas we actually try and get approval from the whole world you know so one person on social media tells the world that they don't like us and we can potentially fall apart instead of saying actually they're not in my troop so it's not important so So take me through that process then. So I get a blank piece of paper. I write down who I want to be.

I'd say things like, I want to be, and correct me where I'm wrong here, okay? Because I would- You won't be wrong. Yeah. But if I say, I want to be,

I want to achieve great things. Is that a drive? No, that's not a drive. That's something you hope for. Yeah, okay. So we get the terminology right because if you hope for that, drive no that's not a drive that's something you hope for yeah okay so we get the terminology right because if you hope for that but accept it may not happen that you know you're working with the human circuit which is logical and rational so we hope to get like i work with elite athletes which is privileged and they hope to get say an olympic

medal and they hope for that they accept that you may not get this even if you're on form on the day somebody may be better or you may make an error so as long as you have that then it shouldn't be stressing you okay it'll be okay but if you move into saying i have to get an olympic medal we're now moving into the chimp circuits yeah because that's not true yeah you don't have you know you don't have to you know but if somebody absolutely says to me you don't get it if i don't get then life's not worth living i'm not going to argue what I'm saying is that's a choice you're making and you must also accept the consequence. So I can't put, I can't change that. So, so when you start your list, what I'm really asking for is you, what are your character traits?

So, so discipline. Yeah. I mean, again, I would test the waters. I don't know what you're going to say here in the spotlight. I'll just do a quick one for you. Would you like to be a really nice, good person or would you like to be successful? You can only be one of them. Which would you prefer? A really nice, good person. Right. So I know where I stand with you now. So we have to now make sure that you understand that's the prime reason that we're going to do the work is to get you to be the person that you want to be this is the good news if you write on the piece of paper the perfect person you want to be so give me some more character traits traits all the things that come to mind are the impact i want to have on those that encounter me so right so you you want

to be inspirational yeah yeah i guess that is but also just like um empathetic and compassionate okay brilliant force you want to be an empathic guy a compassionate guy inspirational you're probably going to add if we go through this and add time honesty integrity trustworthy you know respectful when you've done all this this is really crucial and it is a light bulb moment if you think about this that if you had control of that part of your brain, which you have, and there was no interference from the rest of the brain, then that's exactly how you would be in life. That is you. So what I'm saying is the reality is fantastic. That is you. It's not who you hope to be. It is you. It's not a myth. It's neuroscience. It's you. you hope to be it is you it's not a myth it's neuroscience it's you what we're

now saying is that doesn't present to the world because now your chimp and the computer system the backup to both human and chimp now impose other things and so the world might see something different so you say to me i want to be compassionate and i walk in and say i've had a really long journey today all went wrong and you're be compassionate and i walk in and say i've had a really long journey today all went wrong and you're busy and you just get irritated and say oh for goodness sake stop mourning and then afterwards you think well that wasn't very compassionate so i'm not compassionate but that's that's misunderstanding the neuroscience you were always compassionate because your intention was always to say sorry steve that you've had a rough journey you know

because obviously it's important otherwise i wouldn't be telling you i mean you still might want to say stop mourning after a while but it's done nicely but what happened is your chimp is saying i don't need to deal with this it's doing my head in so i'll just have a go and that'll stop him and there you see this immediate reaction without thought to consequence so then our rapport fails a bit because i think not nice guy this but actually when i understand the science i think he's probably a nice guy his chimp wasn't very good there yeah that's very different to you going away at the end of the day thinking what's wrong with me why was i lacking in compassion the answer was get the neuroscience right you've never moved

position you're always a compassionate guy who's trustworthy and honest and so on. Your chimp has interfered. Now it's very critical. I expand on two points here because the listeners are going to go, hang on. This is not an excuse model. A hundred percent. I'm tough on people. It's not an excuse model. You're a hundred percent responsible for managing the chimp so you need an apology so when you know the chimp's been a bit brisk or rude you've got to stop and say I apologize you are responsible so I'm not saying blame everything on your chimp I'm not saying that and the second point is you gave me an answer there by saying I want to be this compassionate

guy and people say surely everyone writes the same list. Absolutely not. In the nineties, when I started to really pull this together and was looking at the neuroscience, clearly as you probably know, I worked in the field of forensics. And if you take a typical person, so we'll take you as a typical person and we say, what would you give? You give me the right list. Peaceful, calm, you'll go through integrity go through integrity honesty compassion that is really common on the list however when you get to the psychopath they wouldn't put these and when i asked them they did not put honesty they did not put compassion they were not relevant they had a very different list of who they would ideally like to be and it wasn't pleasant it was all about power it was all about ego these are what are in critical this what i'm like to be and it wasn't pleasant it was all about power it was all about ego

these are what are in critical this what i'm going to be so actually the human in that person is not the good guy i used to say it's often the chimp in them that's the nice guy they're actually humans not so nice at all so it isn't a good guy bad guy that is not at all what the model is it's saying we all have these systems. Let's find out who we are, what kind of chimp we've got, because they're spread and characteristic, and then what have we got on our computer?