The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Patrice Evra: Learning How To Cry Saved My Life

Episode Date: November 8, 2021

Patrice Evra is a one of a kind. He has suffered more hardships, and has overcome more challenges to get where he is, than probably any other guest I’ve ever had on the show. And yet, Patrice has managed to overcome them all to lead an incredible life. If Patrice can overcome his background and experiences, you can overcome yours. In this episode, Patrice opens up as never before on his background and his experiences when he was young, and after listening to this you’ll want to join us in thanking him for his honesty. Patrice has come through experiences most of us can’t even imagine. Patrice also gives us the inside on what made Sir Alex Ferguson’s Manchester United such a winning machine, what people have got wrong about it, and where people go wrong in trying to achieve their own successful mindsets. In this podcast, you’ll be schooled on how to reach the top, and how to stay there.  Follow Patrice:  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/patrice.evra Patrice’s Book - https://amzn.eu/d/dwBaP7i Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to amazon music who when they heard that we were expanding to the united states and i'd be recording a lot more over in the states they put a massive billboard in time square um for the show so thank you so much amazon music um thank you to our team and thank you to all

of you that listen to this show let's continue me playing was it was just a dream. Growing up, he's a family, 24 brothers and sisters. One breast chicken was for three days. Growing up in the street, you need to survive. Now when I have those images in my head, I could hear him trying to touch me and touching himself

at the same time next to the bed. I was even attaching my pyjama with my shoelaces because to make sure, like, he can't put it down. And one day he did, and I was just, like, terrorized. So that's the things I grew up with, like, you know, I can't cry. For me, crying was a sign of weakness. When I do a video and I see a comment, someone say, oh, Patrice, my dad passed away. I watch one of your. When I do a video and I see a comment someone say oh Patrice my dad passed away

I watch one of your video and I smile thank you this is more important for me than win the Champions League or the Premier League I'm not perfect and I don't want to be perfect I want to be me Patrice Evra. I've just sat here with him for an hour and a half. And at the very end of the conversation, he said something which I think is the perfect description of the man. He referred to himself as an iceberg. I followed him for almost two decades and he was, to me, this football icon, this tough guy, this defender, this champion. But as he says in this conversation, the part of the iceberg that I never got to see was the most compelling, was the most heartbreaking and was the most interesting. He grew up in a rough part of France with 24 brothers and sisters. He was sexually abused by his head teacher. His brother, a drug addict, overdosed and died.

His mother raised him in total poverty to the point where he stole his food, his shoes, and his entertainment. He endured an early upbringing that you would never wish on any child, an enemy or anyone at all in any circumstances ever. And he hid it all. He hid it all for his entire life. And only recently has he found it within himself, after very personal conversations with his mother, to share it with the world. And only today, on this podcast, has he decided to share some of those heartbreaking details. After watching him on TV for almost two decades i thought i knew patrice ever this comedian football champion funny guy happy guy i was wrong all i knew was the tip of the iceberg so without further ado i'm stephen bartlett and this is the diary of a ceo i hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

I've sat here with a lot of guests, and sometimes I feel obliged to start with their childhoods because it seems like the foundation of most people, specifically successful people, tends to be the case that the things they go through at an early age, especially with my sort of little background in childhood psychology, tend to shape them the most. But when I read your story in your book that's just come out, having watched you on screen as a Manchester United fan for many, many a decade,

and seen subsequently the guy you were on Instagram, the hilarious, entertaining person, I never ever would have guessed ever that that was your upbringing, that was your childhood. I would have guessed by the person that I came to know on screen, by the person that I watched on Instagram, I would have guessed the opposite.

Take me back to before you were 10 years old because I know that 10 years old was a really pivotal moment in your life because your father left yeah what was life like before 10 he was an happy happy child a lot of people inside the house sometimes you have to make sure like you're ready when mom say the food is ready. It was like sleeping with two of my siblings in the same bed, a single bed. And, you know, two was sleeping that way and one on that way. Sometimes it was like some smelly fit, but we need space. And it was all about like sharing. But I will tell you something.

I was happy. You know, even if I was like begging in front of shop, you know, to buy a sandwich, I couldn't say in that time I wasn't happy. I was like the most happy child, but it was like tough. And maybe sometime I was just unconscious. But of course, I think when my dad left, that's when I was like, okay, I'm not scared of anyone in this house.

So now I have to grow up on my own. And that's when i was like i would say more close to the street because when my dad was here you know just when i was saying like that i want to go and play outside with my friend he was like did you have you done your homework even i swear even if i did my homework i was scared to say yes so when you say yes to him he was like okay bring me your your book and i remember he was like okay which lesson you have to learn tomorrow and i was like doing the lesson perfectly and he was going to the first page of the book and saying like okay tell me about this and i

couldn't remember i was like yeah but that we did this at the beginning. You know, this is like, okay, when you learn your full book, then you will be able to go outside. So my dad, when he was at home, we didn't miss anything. You know, we have food on the table. Everything was perfect. I had like a big screen TV. I remember we are one of the first family where I grew up in my street to have that big screen

and all my friends, they come. So I couldn't, I will never complain when my dad was here he did his job perfectly but the only things you know my dad uh teach me uh crying is a weakness so when he was like punishing someone and you cry that's when you're gonna you're gonna beat you even more. So that's the things I grew up with, like, you know, I can't cry. And that's why we can talk about that toxic masculinity. They understand crying is normal. But for me, crying was a sign of weakness.

Why did he leave? He leave because my mom divorced him uh and sometime he was uh it was violent with her and i remember you know being kids and no one asked me these questions that's why i'm a little bit emotional and and you know my mom was like no one man can raise his hand on me. So she divorced. He had to leave. You know, she went to the police and he had to go. And it was a tough moment because, you know, when you see your dad leaving,

no matter if you know the reason he shouldn't have done that, leave, same taking all the sofa the the big tv the big screen he was with a big trunk waiting for him and we were all of my brother and sister crying because you know he's your dad but at the same time what he was doing to my mom he wasn't right so did you witness that yeah i think like know, sometimes we try to open the door and if you open that door, you know, it was really scary, you know? And if you, when you heard your mom like fighting back,

because to be fair, my mom, she's a strong woman, you know? And my dad, he say that now, he say like, don't play with your mom because she's a strong woman. So in that time, yeah, when you experience that, you just terrorize. You're like, what's going on? You know, it's your parents. They should like kiss each other.

So, yeah. And you look back on that moment he left, obviously an incredibly sad moment, but are you happy that he left, considering? The problem, you know, obviously an incredibly sad moment, but are you happy that he left, considering? The problem, you know, when you're a kid, you don't really understand.

I was happy because my mom, at the end, you know, she was, she was happy. But to see your dad left, leaving, no matter which reason,

you can't be happy. Now I understand the reason. I forgive him. But saying I was happy, no. So he leaves. Your life takes a turn after that because you've lost that figure in your life and maybe a bit of, don't know restriction has left the family home so you can act on other motivations and incentives and other ways to survive i guess

and what what's the what person did you become after that i would say a warrior. A warrior? Yeah. I think a survivor. Because after, like I say, you know, it's you in the street. And oh, I kill you or you kill me. You know, when you grow up in the street. That's why I hate when some people, they talk about their background and they'll say like, oh, I was a gangster.

No, I would never call myself a gangster i was just a survivor and it was difficult you know so yeah like you say when he left no more restriction going out fighting outside lying to your mom uh the police you know bring me one day home around 1 a.m. My mom was so worried. And I remember it was so funny because some words I didn't even know what they mean. So when they bring me back home

and my mom was just, she put her hand on his mouth, what's going on? She was, his son bring back from the police. And I was like, mommy, I just being an accomplice. And she beat me like so bad. But now I understand it's even worse, you know, because I was like, I didn't steal.

I just was looking when my friend was stealing and stuff like that. So it was just a mess. And no one, even my school teacher, when they were talking to me at school, I was like, can you put the volume down? You're not my dad. So I didn't let anyone, you know,

talking like saying, you can't do this, you can't do that. But I always respect my mom and my brother and my sister. And I was respectful with my friend, but when someone tried to give me some authority he couldn't have it because I was like the one I have like the most authority on me it was my dad he left so now I don't need any authority from no one and you get you start I read you started stealing things yeah you started selling weed yeah you started stealing things. Yeah. You started selling weed. Yeah.

I think stealing was, was normal because I was like with my friend. I remember the first time I, I steal, it was some gum. And, you know, I was hung up with my friend. They were stealing. I wasn't because I was still like having a good education for my dad, for my mom. And to be part of the group, you need to, you know, it's like some people when they drink, because they find that excuse to be like social. So it was stealing.

So I started stealing and everyone clapped me. So I was like, wow, finally I'm part of the gang. And from there, you go like to deal like video games, to sell weed, you know, to having the best like sneakers and you know even offering some stuff to your girlfriend i offer even like a perfume to my mom you know and i was so proud because i was like at the end you know my dad left and a few of my brother and sister left after that also so i was like i'm the man i need to be in charge I need to feed my family it wasn't the right way every time but at least I was like you know my mom like when I offer him like a bottle of perfume and

I see how happy she was but she was like always where that come from and I was like lying you know it's just my friend you know he he bought it for me but I was me he was myself stealing it some years after your father left you did you talk about in the book, in the opening chapters of the book, about your headmaster? Yeah. And you were 13 years old, you ended up staying at his house and he sexually assaulted you. Yeah.

I think this is what one of the most regret I had in my life to not speak up in that day. How did you come to be at his house? It's really simple. It's because Brittany, it was far from my house i have to take

two train to go to school because i went to that school because it was a school where you know you're good at football you after school you have to train so it wasn't an academy but it was a school where you can train also so it was a good opportunity to be fair my mom was like it's good he's leaving the street because he will end up in jail or dead. So it's perfect for him. So I went there and I was taking like, you know, two train, four hours sometime and losing my school bag, sleeping on the train, you know,

even sometime end up like to another destination. So it was a mess. And that school teacher, Ed's teacher, he speak to me. He said, do you want like to another destination. So it was a mess. And that school teacher, Ed's teacher, he speak to me, he said, do you want like to stay? Because I'm living inside the school. He have his home inside the school. So I went back home and I say to my mom,

you know, he offered that. And my mom was like, not sure about it at the beginning, because even when I tell her, I will speak later about it. She said, I knew it. And she was like, are you sure? Can you trust this man? not sure about it at the beginning because even when i tell her i will speak later about it she she i knew it and she was like are you sure can you trust this man i was like yay he seemed nice mom so that head teacher at the beginning everything was perfect he was uh cooking for me in the evening he was letting me play his nintendo he had the nintendo

at the time so i was like, yeah, that's cool. I don't need to go back home on the weekend and I just stay here. Then every night I was in my bed and every time he was coming in my room and the first time I was like, maybe he just come to say good night but he was uh i was sleeping and i was feeling a hand on my body and i was like oh what's going on you know then he was trying to touch me but i was like holding

his hand so it was like a fight for for 10 minutes uh and i was still couldn't understand. I was 13, but, you know, I didn't have any sexual relation even with any girls at that time. So for me, everything was new. I was like, what's going on, you know? We fight many times and he didn't succeed. And he was, you know, now when I have those images in my head, I could hear him trying to touch me and touching himself at the same time next to the bed, you know now when i have those image in my head i could hear him trying to touch me and touching himself in the same time next to the bed you know then he was leaving and every time i

was like oh he's gone so he's start to become a ritual every time i go to bed he coming the same things fight everything fight fight and uh one day you know i was even attaching my pajama with my laces like i remember yeah shoelaces because to make sure like he can't put it down and uh we felt you know he was trying like on the top of my clothes but fighting said so one day he did he put my pants down and he put my penis in his mouth and i was just like terrorized i remember i was i just freeze you know i knock his head but i and after i just freeze i couldn't i didn't understand what's going on then he left then i wake up i can't even remember what's happened

because you know those things you just like erase them from your memory so i back to school i think in school i was thinking about what's what's happening it's like something not normal then then i went home i said mom i don't want to sleep anymore to that head teacher she said why I said no I just don't want I never tell her the reason until now so after that I live all my life with that from the street you know you come back you, imagine you tell that to one of your friends. They're going to say, you know, you're weak, all of that stuff. So even for me, when I had my first sexual relation, it was weird because I had this man in my head, you know, and this I never told that to anyone.

So I was like massively traumatized then actually because all of that I back to my school where I grew up in the street and I stopped even going to that school even like people were like but you're so good at football why I said I don't need it I will keep training on my own on the street you know I don't want to be in that school anymore. So yeah, I grew up with that thing for so many years. And what I feel as a coward is when I was 24 years old, not 20 years old, and I was still playing for Monaco at the time and the police called me.

I said, is the number of patricia um you know we got a lot of complaint about that a teacher i don't even remember his name i don't i could even tell you his face because i erased all of this in my memory uh there's been a lot of complaint about child they're being abused about that head teacher did he touch you no are you sure yes i'm sure and i was angry even when people asked me that question you know i was like oh there someone asked me about that put the phone down so all this year i was like wow patrice you had the opportunity when you were 13 years old. You didn't. I will understand.

But now you're 20 and you couldn't. Just what? Because you still shame of it? Because you're famous? You're scared of the reaction of the people? But doing that, that day, that's why growing up, when people say, Patricerice you're a good guy I wasn't feeling

that way because I was feeling as a coward a coward a coward yeah because he wasn't about Patrice

he was about the other child I let down when the police called me he's about the other child they're still being abused right now

so coming out with this helped me a lot and i have to say a massive thanks to the woman of my life margo because you know sometimes people say you need a psychologist but in life sometimes it's about which person you meet i'm someone i really believe in energy and to be fair after that trusting trusting anyone, a psycholog, I would say, maybe I will tell him this, he don't care. He's just paid for that job. Some of them are really good.

I never meet any psycholog, but me, that woman like- She was a romantic partner? Yeah. She make me being myself and being honest with myself. Don't be shame of anything, baby. And I'm here. And I will never, me, Patrice, the tough guys,

don't showing emotion. Think a woman can, you know, extract those real emotion for myself. I was like, wow. So there was a day you a day you shared that with her can you tell me about that day like I said the day I shared that with her it was

you know when she met me I was 38 so I was just retired from football doing all my things and oh my god you you seem so happy and such a positive man but i do you care about yourself patrice i say yeah and she asked me one simple question are you happy

yes i'm happy i'm happy you know i make you happy i make my patrice what make you happy uh i'm happy no i'm just saying like i'm happy this is not an answer so she go deep and i we didn't talk about the subject i say no i'm fine she said no because i can see yes you're an impulsive person you like to fight you say because this from the street and everything but i think you got something you got a pain on your chest and you don't want i was like i'm fine i'm fine then one day we watched something and it was about pedophile and stuff so again she looked at my face she said like you okay i said yeah i'm okay why are you asking no patrice i feel you you're hiding something i said why why you you know i don't like when people want to try inside go to get get inside. I'm fine.

I was still closing the door. If you love me, you should like tell me what's going on. I need to know already. I look at her. I just try crying like a baby. I cry like a baby. She heard me. What's going on?

And I tell her the full story. So she cried. She was like, I knew. Thank you. Have you said that to someone? To the police? To your mom? I said, no.

You are the first person. And I don't want to say it to anybody else. Do you want to go for, do you go for, do you want to go for therapy? And I said, I'm fine. I told you. No, Patrice, you're going to explode one day.

You need to, you know, let it out. Then when I cry and I feel much better about myself and I was still like, you know, I cry in front of her. Now she will take advantage of me.

She will think I'm weak. But she was like, you know, baby, I even love you more. This is a strain. Stop thinking this is a weakness. That's when she introduced me

to that toxic masculinity. Couldn't understand before. She explained me what it was about. Like being a man is not like being strong. I was like, this is my education. This is the way I grow up. This is why the dad, like many dads, they do the same mistake. And I did the same with my first child, Benny.

Sometimes he was talking to me. I was like, you got everything. Why you complain? Come on, daddy. You know, when I was doing this, come on, don't be weak. Daddy, you know, it's painful. It's okay.

But when I think about all of that, now I'm like, because I live with that toxic masculinity. And I think men like us have to change that. Crying is a strain. And you know, when you grow in the streets, just like holding the hand of your girlfriend

is a sign of weakness. You're not allowed to do that. So I'm discovering myself. Who's going to believe that I'm 38 years old, I'm 40, I will start to discover myself now everything makes sense that trauma make me become who i am like sometime a soldier like no emotion i'm going to do the job sometime i win some trophy we celebrate it was fake i didn't i wasn't like that happy if you ask me patrice are you happy now i say yes now i'm complete i'm content i feel blessed and i feel lucky but when i used to play

football i was a robot i was just doing my job your brother you talked about the fact that you started dealing drugs back when you were younger and then your brother started taking drugs yeah this was another massive trauma you know

when you wake up in the in the morning and you just want to go in the toilet. And you open the door and you see your brother with, you know, how you say it? A needle. A needle, yeah. And looking at you with like eyes, you know, like red eyes

and just closing the door. And you have to hold on your, you know, if you want to pee, you have to hold it because it's there. And it was one toilet, the whole house. And this teach me to never touch any drug because I saw my brother and he lost his life because of that. He lost his life. He died as an overdose in Senegal.

He even sell his document, his French passport. And he went in Senegal and one day they called my mom. My auntie say, your son is dead in a bathroom. So it was tough for me to talk about this in my book

because my mom, she's the son of my mom. And I don't have the right to talk about it in my book because we're talking about a dead person but i just unfortunately this show me like taking drug i can lose my life like the same for alcohol uh i didn't drink until i was 33 years old because for me a glass of alcohol, it was the homeless people living in my street. And anyway, my mom and my dad don't drink.

So I never had that culture. So that's why I couldn't understand when I came in England and people were drinking, even like football players. And when we were going to party, they were always say to the waitress, we have an hot chocolate for Patrice. Because the alcohol and the drugs, to party they were always said to the waitress can we have a hot chocolate for patrice because the alcohol and the drugs it was like you're gonna end up dead poison you know

you um so going back to this topic of toxic masculinity it's something i've actually been thinking a lot about because my girlfriend funnily enough has started to talk to me a lot about the idea this is why i was just remaining quiet and listening first but but um she started talking to me a lot about the idea of the masculine and the feminine and how a rounded healthy man embodies both sides of him and is able to tap into both sides of him sounds like your early years um made you use one of those sides which is the masculine side as a form of self-defense in many ways, as a way to survive. Because I'm hearing what you went through and I'm thinking, you know, using the feminine energy, the emotion, the expression of, you know, how someone feels, care, the softness, wouldn't have been conducive with survival in that

situation. So as you get 40 years on, how do you then unlearn your survival technique? How do you unlearn the masculine, defensive, don't cry, don't show weakness, which you now know is important for you to have good relationships, romantic relationships, to be balanced yourself, to be open, to be expressive, and to not self-destruct? What I love about you is the way you question myself.

You even make me think, but you're right. If I have this feminine emotion in that time, I won't survive because we know women are more emotional than men. So what you just said to me, I'm like, yeah, Patrice, you want to fight against that toxic masculinity, but you're happy when you need it. Now, because you're 40 years old, you don't need it anymore.

And you're a dad now, so you're gonna teach. You're gonna teach, but I'll be honest with you. That's why, you know, my woman was scared when we have our son. She was like, Pat patrice before he born i don't want him to be like you wow she put that on my face what do you mean yeah i want him to be determined passion funny positive but i don't want him to have your emotion. Or lack of. Yeah.

I was like, but I think, you know, when he cry, I will say like, no, don't cry. She was, that's exactly what I'm talking about. When he cry, I want you to say, it's okay. Let your emotion out. But it's difficult for me at the beginning. So I was like, nah, I won't. I don't want him to cry when he fall and everything and the funny part is when she was still pregnant uh you know when woman this is more about

relationship because now i know relationship is not just about love it's about caring and communication you know i don't want to be like now the priest or because when i talk like this so many people like that oh i wish my husband is like you know i've been the bad guys too so don't give me wrong but now i'm more like feeling like so back to that moment we were in the car. She was with a drink. And I said, don't drink because it's bumpy and you're going to, and she hate like, you know, having Mark on her. She drink, pop, fall on the shirt. Yes, we're on the shirt.

She cry. I promise you, Steve, I cry instantly with her because I feel her. I feel a sadness. The whole Patrice will be like, but come on. Why are you crying just because you speak? Come on. But in that moment, I didn't,

I wasn't focused on the reason why she's crying. I was like, just on the emotion. She's crying. She's in pain. You don't need to fix it. She need a hug. The moment she saw me crying, she stopped crying. She stopped crying straight away.

And for me, it was new. I was like, what's going on? I can't even feel your pain. You know, sometimes you say you love someone, but this is like a deep love. Like even now, she cry, I cry automatically. Even now, we're talking and when she's next to me, I miss her.

I never experienced that. And now it's so special to come back to my son. When he cry now, you know, my woman can be, oh, come on, my woman can be, oh, come on, Lilas. I'm like, but it's okay. You know, it must be a reason because he's angry. So I'm the one softer now.

So that's what I'm like, wow. You're just a different man. We had a rule. If we argue, because don't get me wrong, we argue like normal couple. We're not special. But it's just like, because don't give me wrong, we argue like normal couple. We're not special. But it's just like, we don't put it under the carpet. We fix it.

But not like we force it in a natural way. When, for example, we argue straight away and you say, we need to talk because woman say, we need to talk. I'm not ready. We need to talk. I'm not, no, give me my space. Then I come back. Okay, let's talk about it.

I'm apologize. But I'm apologize because I mean it. Not because you forced me to apologize. And you're not trying to win. I'm not trying to win. And then I understand. I'm like, okay, baby, how lucky we are. The special love we have right now.

I will never believe the way I believe in love right now. That's why I'm encouraging all the kids, the next generation, this love exists. But it exists. So it's again, you, you,

it sounds like you're just recounting my life specifically over. I met, I met a lady. She's called, I won't say it, Melanie. And she, she was very keen. She said very similar things to me. She was like, there's something you've not't say it, Melanie. And she was very keen.

She said very similar things to me. She was like, there's something you've not told me about, et cetera. And her real sort of drive with me has been trying to make me tap into the feminine side of me, which again means opening up, being vulnerable, removing my ego. When we argue, it's to try and solve a problem as opposed to trying to win. And that also, and she slowly got this different person out of me in my previous relationship snapping right leave i'll just leave right yeah and in this one it's like she lets me speak i let her speak okay sometimes we but we're both trying to understand the person and the thing that really changed it's funny because when you talked about

that day when you opened up with your partner about what had gone on she created a safe space and once you have that safe space and you learn that this is a safe space this relationship is a safe space you don't have to be that person you were in the streets right you don't even have to be the person you are in the group chat on whatsapp you can cry you can say babe i i feel insecure i feel triggered and that for me has been this like tremendous catalyst in myself because now I can really investigate myself with someone right and know that they're not gonna laugh at me or think I'm not a man yeah because I'm crying or because I'm I've got feelings right and that that meant that again when you just described the way you feel about her the sense

like when she's not by your side you didn't know a love like this existed i was saying that this morning i've just left her in indonesia and i was saying i didn't realize i could have a relationship like this with someone where every argument we have heals our relationship to a stronger place it doesn't leave a scratch or a scar which and that's the thing you know but you you resume it perfectly and like you say sometime when we have a discussion like we all love even get even more stronger stronger right because we are in love with each other but what i like what you say a word safe yeah safe space it's a safe space feeling safe yeah yeah allow to be yourself i'll say that to my girlfriend now so i'll say this sounds like i've never said this before but i'll literally say to my girlfriend now. So I'll say, this sounds like, I've never said this before, but I'll literally say to her,

I need a safe space. And that means that I'm about to say some things which might trigger you, might make you unhappy, but I need to say it because it's how I feel. So I'll literally say, give me a safe space.

And that means listen to me. But exactly, I think it's easy to listen to someone, but to understand the person, to saying, I heard you this is different yeah it means you really understand because you can talk for many hours i'm like yeah i'm listening yeah you're not you're waiting to speak you're building your your argument against

no but but exactly but what you say i think we're really similar and i i was excited to come today and i'm even more happy to be here and to keep like talking we can talk i think many hours and i just feel like so open even talking about you you asked me a few questions about why my dad leave many things like it was not easy to not cry but i like that but this is something this is something that men need to hear and you think about just from what we've both learned from our stories there with relationships but just even two men having a conversation like this how how freeing that is for us how it's healing for us but also it allows us to form relationships which are real and deep and meaningful where we don't want to be running out in the street and so i it's you know

it's one of the real things i think is going to form a big part of with my life too as you've successfully done with this book is trying to tell men without having to meet the women like we met how to be in touch with the the true i don't even say the feminine side the the the full version of themselves i absolutely i think i i know but i I absolutely agree with you because it's a challenge because we have a little help because we find someone, like you say, we feel open and we can, you know, you can be yourself.

But yeah, I think we should fight with that toxic masculinity because it's not good even for yourself, but even for your children, for many reasons. But you test me by saying, Patrice, if you didn't have that masculine, you know, toxic masculinity, how you will be able to survive in that

when you were that kid? And I will be look at you straight away and saying, no. So it's a good subject. And I hope if you want to debate more about it i will be a good client either way we have to unlearn it right we have to unlearn it once we realize that it's not serving us and that is admittedly a very slow process one that goes you know because even i some i have to be very aware of that part of me the masculine ego part of me and i always think with trauma and with these kinds of things you never actually fully recover i i think the most important thing is to put it out in front of you

so that it's no longer controlling your life from the back room and ruining your relationships and stuff just for me like i've got a lot of traumas from my childhood with my parents and their relationship i still have them and i just have them out in front of me and the power they have over me is diminished i know what the triggers are i know i understand them and i just want to keep them out in front of me so i can hopefully live a happy life football bit of a segue um you're very good at football i'm trying to figure out what like how you became so good at football with all of that stuff happening in your life and that cauldron you're in and what football was for you as a young man i was everything so football saved my life when my friend they were stealing to get away from the stealing i

was like training on my own even when it was snowing but come on patrice you're never going to to succeed anywhere you're from the street you you're uh you're a black person you will never gonna make it you know just find a white girlfriend with a lot of money that was the the way the people yeah i think in my street stop you know you look cute you can just find a girl and you know i was like no you know i love football and i need to training every day i remember even at school sometime when we went to school and the teacher couldn't make it because of the traffic or the snow and they were like okay we free some kids they were wanted to go back home i was like no no it's a football pitch just next to the school we have to play and i was fretting them sometimes they couldn't like some kid i was like

if you don't come i'm gonna beat you and they were coming and training yeah i was forcing people to play football with me why it's an addiction i don't know it was my reason of living is it your escape i think i could say it was both. It was my escape, but it was also my love, my passion. Just when you give me like a football ball, it was like everything for me, you know. I remember that a teacher, the first day you come at school

and they ask what you want to become later. And many people were lawyers, policemen, many good job doctor. And me, she was reading my note and footballer player. But I didn't even know what was footballer player. I was like, I play football, but so I'm footballer player. And she was taking my note in front of everyone. And she was like, Patrice, think footballer player is a job.

And everyone was laughing everyone my friend i was looking so and she was going even deeper she was uh but you know if it's a trial and 300 kids they will pick one kid do you think it's going to be you i was like yes and everyone was even more laughing but at the end now i don't want to get any revenge with that teacher i just want to make sure she don't say the same things to other kids because me in that time i was really strong mentally so no one you know can project their own fear because some people i hate those people when you say i'm going to this no you can't because they try to projecting their own failure on you me now if a kid i was you know i see some some some kid at the school in manchester and i was like if you want to become the president of the universe go for it you're going to have a lot of enemies and make a lot of sacrifice there's no

president of the universe i know it doesn't doesn't exist. That's what I mean. But that's what I mean. I'm like, even though like the job doesn't exist, go for it. Go for it. If you dream about it.

And that's, that's what's the beauty of me when I was a child. Like everyone, like I did a trial at PSG and I did everything perfect.

At the end, he say, you're too small. You're from the street and we scare you going to steal things in the dressing room. Yeah. PSG. PSG. That's what the coach told me.

And they didn't take me just for those two reasons. Fuck, you know. So I have a lot of like, you won't make it. And more people do that, more I'm like, that's why I say I'm lucky mentally. I can't tell you why I'm that strong. Maybe about from my dad, my mom, or all the things that I have to survive.

But this was even making me more stronger. Did you have a plan B? No, I didn't have any plan B. This was all or nothing. And that's the scary things when I think about it now, because some of my friends or some people, they were like, Patrice, you know, school is important. You should have your diploma and stuff.

I was like, I want to be a footballer player. But I get in shock when I knew actually playing football, you can win money. I wasn't aware about that. Like when I signed my first contract, when I was 17, I didn't care about the money. In that time, it will make you laugh. You know, what I was most happy is when I saw my track suit on the bed and I wear it and I was looking myself in the mirror and I was, oh my God. And I went downstairs to join the team and I see all the players sit in a table and people coming to serving them the food.

It was like, I remember like three fork on one side, three knife on one side. I call my mom. I say, mom, I'm even, like this is paradise. People serving us the food. I've got like three. Now I've got a tracksuit. We all dress the same.

And my mom cry at the phone. I remember that day. And so, you know, when people ask me, what is your best memory when you play football? That was my best memory. Not winning the Champions League or this is when I was 17. You know, that kid and just,

just having food and a normal track suit. Make me so happy. And that's my best memory I had since I played football. Because you'd made it. I made it that day. I was like, I made it, man.

I won't be in the street anymore. I won't have to survive to fight. I won't have to beg money. So it was just crazy. And even in that time, even some people, they still take advantage because when I signed my first contract,

actually, I signed a paper with the mafia, the Italian mafia, and I was their property. And I didn't doubt, I found out this when, after I wanted to move for IS Roma, and IS Roma we say, we have to call off the deal

because you're the property of that man. And it was a guy from the mafia. And actually on that time, I remember when I filed my first contract, I was earning, it was like 50 pound now per month. And we had like five months where they didn't pay us uh i remember my mom and my brother they come to visit me in sicily and you know a breast chicken one breast chicken was for three days we had to cut it like in cube

little cube i remember she was like twisting in a little bag and that's it that's was for the meal for sometime we had only one meal per day but i was happy and i remember my mom come to visit me in sicily and she cried she said but what you doing here you know i was like mommy i just love football she was like but you have nothing. Look where you live. I was, you know, it was like, if you see my first flat, I mean, like they allowed me to live on that flat. It was disaster. But I was happy because I had football.

And every time when I was training or when we played a game, I was scared to the referee to blow the final whistle because I was like, what I'm going to do now? I'm back to the reality. So for me, playing was, it was just a dream. Hard to imagine it's hard to hard to imagine how how difficult life must be for you to not want the whistle to blow on a on a football game it's was there a moment where where that changed and where you no longer started to dread the

final whistle blowing because your life off the pitch was somewhere to look forward to is when I I get rid of those people around me and the

the mafia and I I signed with a new agent and I signed for Nice so I go back to France a bigger salary I think I was earning something like 3K per month.

So much better life, be able to even help my mom. And from that moment, I was like, okay, now I'm safe. I'm safe. And after, you know, I signed for Monaco, of course. And I keep my word. I say, you know, I signed for Monaco, of course. And I keep my word. I say, you know, when my dad left and in school, they give you like a little money. And my dad was taking this money to send it to Senegal to my other brother and sister. So I remember my sister went after my mom, like, you know, with true lawyers and everything.

She get that money from the school and not my dad anymore. My sister get that money and she go to buy like some makeup and everything. I was like, shame on you. Oh, mom, like she feeding us every single day. Like, and why you don't give that money? And I said, me, mommy, I don't want anything.

This is for you. Because we're living in your roof. You're don't want anything. This is for you. Because you're living in your roof. You're feeling this every day. This is for you. No, but Patrice, this is for you. Mommy, I don't need this. And I say, mom, when I'm going to have my big contract, the first things I'm going to do,

because that's what's my motivation, is to buy a house to my mom. And I did it. And I think that was one of the most pride moment of my life because I say to my mom and I keep my word and I bought her a house in Senegal before I bought of course with my money when I play for Monaco my Porsche and everything cars because I like cars not now anymore because I understand how stupid it is but But yeah, that was one of my biggest achievements. She must have been proud, right?

My mom, my mom cry every time she see me. Because sometimes she's like, you don't understand. There's many things you don't know, Patrice. Like when you were like alone and no one wanted to help us. And now that's why it's so funny when suddenly you are someone and people, they're like your auntie come back or your uncle, but they weren't there when, you know, we need them the most. So she always cries.

She said, I'm too nice. But me, I'm like, I don't have any hate in my heart. It's difficult. And Manchester United. I'm, yeah, I can't imagine what that would have been like getting a call that that's... But you will laugh because before United, I would start being, I will call it overconfident and arrogant.

I was playing for Monaco. I reached the final of Champions League, being named four times in the world, the best left back in the French league, playing for the national team. So I remember my agent came and he said, Patrice, you know, in January, he say, it's like teams, like you have Inter,

Liverpool, Manchester United. I say yeah cool I say and what stuck in my head when he said Manchester United

Cantona really yeah Cantona yeah the colours yeah wow I said okay

Manchester United I swear Cantona yeah because I wasn't following really yeah I can tell you something I don't watch football. You're supposed to say it was a childhood dream.

Yeah. It was just like, it's just me. I'm playing football. So watching football is like going to work. That's when I was young. But now as a pundit, I have to watch football game. But it's something I've never been interested in. It's something I never enjoyed.

So I didn't know. Although sometime I was watching some Brazil, Manchester United because of Cantona. So I said't know, although sometime I was watching some Brazil, Manchester United because of Cantona. So I say to my agent, yeah, okay. He said, you should go to Manchester. I think Manchester suit you. I say, why not? Then we met Sir Alex Ferguson, because at that time,

you know, I still playing for Monaco. So you can't be approached by another team. You know, you broke the rules. So we met in the airport, in the secret room, yeah. A secret room in the airport. Yeah, in the secret room in the airport. And that day, that interview was like

being interviewed by the FBI. It was like, do you smoke? Do you drink? Do you like to party? Are you ready to not lose one game are you ready to not even draw a game yes sir alex said yeah he shake my hands he said now you shake my hands so that's you know playing for man united or everything i say that's what you you will have to do and all the stuff even Even if some people, they drink and they do many things, but it was about more the winning mentality. And when he shake my hand, he looked straight in my eyes.

And when you look straight at his eyes, you make sure you don't disappoint him. So what I love about Ferguson is that day also, he say, you know, son, we know your background. You know where you come from. But just be yourself. I won't change you. I just want you to bleed for United, for the fun, for the people from Manchester, you know, work ethic.

And it was already in my DNA. So when I joined United, I was like, finally, I can be myself. Because even in France, playing for Monaco, when sometime I was saying, like, I can be myself. Because even in France, playing for Monaco, when sometime I was saying like, I want to be the best left back. Oh, I am the best. Oh, he's too arrogant. He's this.

So the French media, they didn't understand me. They were like, you know, he's too arrogant. And I win also the youngest French player in the league and normally only striker like Henri Zidane. I was the first defender to win those kinds of trophies. So I was like overconfident. So when I joined Manchester and Ferguson tell me all those words, it was a different story.

I was like, finally, I can express myself. Like Cantona say, you know, in France, they will build him the guillotine. In Manchester, they will build him a statue. And that's the truth. Because in Manchester, they let you be yourself, you know. Even if, you know, you have to kick a fan or stuff, they will still be behind. They know it's wrong, but you still feel the support.

You still feel you're part of the family. So we're going to accept you, you know, the way you are. And that's what's really important. Even if I think everyone knows the story of my first game. I think I saw well. Yeah. Just crazy. Because I just came back.

I just trained with the team three days. We had a derby against Manchester City. Playing at 12. I never played at 12 in my life, apart when I was a kid, but never played at 12. Come for the breakfast, nine. I see Mikel Silvestre,

Louis Sade, my French teammate, eating beans, you know, pasta. I'm not a good breakfast guy. So I start doing the same, you know? I'm like, okay, in this league, you know pasta i'm not a good breakfast guy so i start doing the same you know i'm like okay in this league you know you need to to eat because it's a strong league i eat i feel sick i went in my room i vomit i said i need to call the doc and you need to say to the manager i can't play that game but i was like patrice just signed. You can't say that. Again, toxic masculinity. They will say I'm weak.

I'm scared. I play. I say I play. Don't ask me why, you know, in Manchester, it's never sunny. In nine years, I just done like three barbecue in nine years. That day was so hot. The sun was like on my face. I was like, I'm back to Monte Carlo.

I was like, what face i was like i'm back to monte carlo i was like what's going on i remember the first the first ball trevor st clair just headbutt me i was cut straight away he was like welcome to england welcome to the premier league and in one point one point i was again the post i remember you know when you have those bubble the cartoon and you've you know writing what you think about. I was like, oh my God, what the hell I'm doing here? The football is so fast, so strong. I should have keep chilling in Monte Carlo. So losing 2-0 half time, Ferguson give the air dryer to everyone. And he come to me and say, you, now you sit and you learn the English football. So I didn't understand because, you know,

I didn't speak very well English and Carlos Carios was the one like translating. And I put my, you know, the doctor was like cleaning my blood and I put my, and Carlos Carios said, no, no, Patrice, it's over, it's finished. So imagine me playing for France, best left back,

being subbed after the first 45 minutes. But it gets even worse and worse after that. So we lose the game. I back home and my Italian agent with his wife were staying with me in my flat. And my agent look at me like this. He said, Patrice, I'm sorry. I said, what? He said, Patrice, I'm sorry. I said, what?

He said, I should never book you in Manchester. I'm sorry. You should have stayed in Monaco, you know? And his wife on the background looking at me, I promise you that that day I was so low. I was like, even my own agent, he don't believe in me anymore. I was like, wow.

So after that, I know I play a Liverpool game, a good game. We win 1-0, Rio Ferdinand scored a winning goal and everything. And I had a great game. So he back, but the first six months was really difficult for me and Nemanja Vidic. We came in, we arrived at the same time.

We even play with the reserve and we get subbed half time again. In the reserve. In the reserve. Imagine me and Nemanja Vidic in the shower. I remember I say, oh, my Asian say, you know, I will maybe go back in Italy. Vidic was like, okay, I will go to Moscow.

Also, they want me back and stuff. So all of that, my teammates were laughing. Rio, Wayne Rooney. When in the training, I was like sleeping and they were like laughing when someone was, you know, shoulder you, they were laughing. Rio, when Rune, when in the training, I was like sleeping and they were like laughing when someone was, you know, shorter you, they were laughing. And I remember one day, Paul Scholes, when I make it, when he respect me, he said, you know, Patrice, I think you were like a jockey. I even asked like the boss, if he can sell you back to Monaco, but for free,

send you back for free. Yeah. And I look at them, you know, all those things. You know, when I saw my teammate laughing when I was not playing a game, it didn't put me down. I was like, I'm going to show them what is the real Patrice. Because it's difficult when you come to a club like, you know, end of January

because, you know, you miss half of the season. So after I missed the World Cup, my fellow French teammate luisa and michael they went to the world cup 2006 i was fuming i back to monaco i was in the gym all the summer uh i was looking the french national team reaching the final of world cup but they lose against italy so i was like okay i understand the football in England now it's like you have to be strong first then after you can

play with your feet so I get some muscle everything I came back to the pre-season we had a pre-season in South Africa I was the man

of the tournament and I remember Mick Phelan the second coach he came and he checked my hand and said now you are United players

from that day even before the season start I know I will make it. And the rest is history. You played in a lot of teams. I sat here with Rio Ferdinand as well. I asked him a very similar question.

What was it that made Manchester United achieve the success they achieved? It's so many things. You know, when you say, I can say like the work, the discipline, the passion. I think it's also the character, personality. I think Ferguson, he wanted to meet players in person to see if he can feel their character, their personality, if they're going to be ready to handle the pressure.

Pressure, playing for Manchesterchester the pressure is a gift it's a privilege like i want to add pressure like i didn't want ferguson to say you play a good game i want ferguson like to give me the air dryer it was a little bit like it's really weird but i didn't expect any compliment like for me playing for under sir alex ferguson and manchester united i wasn't i never scared of anyone i never scared of sir alex ferguson but i was scared to disappointing him so it's about respect what make manchester united it was like i have many coach they say winning is important, but Ferguson winning in United is normal. Like the goal is to win like four trophy per season. I will tell you a story.

When we won the Champions League in 2008, exciting. We went on the plane, putting the music loud, you know, dancing. Ryan Giggs look at me, can you put this? I was like, hey, we just win the Champions League and the Premier League. Yeah, but you know, we need to sleep, we need to rest. I was like, okay, that's weird. We land.

Ferguson, I remember, we were on the bus and he take the mic. He say, congratulations. Well done, I'm proud of you to be in the champion of Europe. But next year, if you don't want to win it again, I will end many contracts of many players of you. If you don't, I don't feel the same passion and the same anger.

Now, because he was the Euro 2008, now go and enjoy having and use the F word with your national team. Boom. No parade, no celebration with the fan. I remember I went home and I was with my back. I drop it.

I was like, this is the feeling of winning the Champions League and the league? I was like, wow. But the problem, you become a robot. So you're not even happy when you win the league.

The years and years. You know when we celebrate and it was fake. Inside, it was just pretending. Of course, it's a release. It's an achievement. But because you just become a machine, a robot, winning, that's the only thing that matters. And that's why he goes to play for Man United,

but also sacrifice. You know, when I talk about sacrifice, I'm not ashamed about you even have to sacrifice your own family. That's what I did. I'll give you an example. You know, my first son, Lenny,

he was three years old. And I came back home one day and he was crying. I said, why are you crying? He said, because I hate Manchester United. I said, why? He said, because they took my dad away. And you know, the United fan, they have a flag where they united kids and wife in that order. I never laugh in that flag a lot of people

laugh I never because that's that's the that's what it caused me to succeed at United was United United that's why I had a really strong relationship with Ferguson because he knew I don't need Manchester United I love Manchester United and I could like die for this club and I still could die for this club for the fan and for any manager so to play for Manchester United

it costs you your life, your normal life you're part of another family It's interesting because when you were younger, you had a problem with authority. Exactly. Ferguson is the ultimate authority.

I still, in different way, I still, you know, Ferguson, sometime he shouted on me, I was stood up, facing. Like I was like, if you go far, I don't know. I don't guarantee nothing will happen. But it's also, I wanted to make sure I didn't want to disobey in front of people. This is really important because you always question,

you know, the coach if you answer back. And that's why I also say to kids, when the manager talk, you should never answer back in front of the people, but you can go after. And that's what I was doing with Ferguson. So I tell you one game, we play against Tottenham,

winning 2-0 in halftime, playing the best game in my life. I promise you, I was like, wow, on fire. Came back in the dressing room, in some water, people, oh my God, Patrice, you're on fire, back in the dressing room in some water people oh my god patrice you're on fire everything i sit very good sunset when he sit and he doesn't speak for for three minutes or five like you you mean like someone is in trouble i look at him he look at me he said patrice you okay and me yeah yeah i'm okay boss yeah are you tired seriously i look around if it was like a

prank if it was some camera even people were like what i say no he said why you pass the ball back to vandersa i say because i i didn't have any solution forward. And that was the only pass I passed because I like to play forward. If you do that again, you will come and watch the rest of the game next to me. And he used the many F word. He said, this is the worst game you're playing since. You play for Manchester United. That's why I stood up.

I was like, what's going on? This is, this is like, this is, he was like, you shouldn shouldn't if you pass the ball back again I promise you you will never play for and just this like a stand up

but I keep my mouth shut I was biting my lips even people they were in shock they were scared like gigs everyone was like what's going on

came back second half we beat Tottenham 4-0 boom boom 4-0 and everything after the game everyone Everyone was like, what's going on? Came back, second half. We beat Tottenham 4-0. Boom, boom, 4-0 and everything. After the game, everyone, oh my God, don't listen to him. Patrice, you were on fire. I did my shower quickly.

I remember, I couldn't wait to sleep and to come back the next day. Next day I come. I open. What is it? I open the door. Oh, Patrice! How are you, my son? I say, boss,

who I am? What's happened yesterday? Patrice, you were the best player on the pitch. But you know, Cristiano was start doing some skill. Some player,

they were like missing chance to score. You know, when you play for Man United, when you score one goal, you have to score a second. When you score a second, you have to score a third goal. You have to respect the people they come to watching. You know, when you play for Man United, when you score one goal, you have to score a second. When you score a second, you have to score a third goal.

You have to respect the people they come to watching. I was like, wait a minute, boss. You were the best player, my son. And I get out of my office, FFC. I was French FC. And he was like whistling,

singing and laughing. Then I came out of the office. I was like whistling singing and laughing then I came out of the office I was like actually you know I could take the fire

he wanted to send a message to the other player to Cristiano Cristiano and many of the players to keep focus and to respect Tottenham

but he he picked the best player on the pitch to send that message. Automatically, all the other players, they were like, if he's killing the best player on the pitch, we better.

But that's what I'm talking about managing. That's Fergie. You had a bust up with Fergie in 2007. Yeah. When he didn't play you. Oh yeah. He promised he in 2007 yeah when he didn't play you oh yeah he promised he'd play you then didn't play you oh yeah

he's this was and even now and even I'm going to see him on Saturday I never ask him the real reason so it's simple I've

played every cup game every cup game I've been named the best left back in the Premier League. It was like, you know, competition with me and Enzo, but I play more game. And anyway, the final, the day before the final, he did the team. No, he come. We were working with Carlos Carrios. And it was, unfortunately, an article on the paper and a big title, The Sun. And it was like, Patrice Evra, ex-drug dealer, gangster, and a first page. Wow.

You know what they did? They went to where I grew grew up they questioned many of my friend and all of my friend they say yes here you know we were fighting you know doing this and you know and they said but patrice is an example for us because he made it so that paper is that telling oh i was a gangster and everything. So it was a front page. And the day before the game, Ferguson, we were walking, going to train and he say, ah, Patrice, we need to talk, you know.

I said, what's the matter, boss? He say, you know, the glazer, the owner, they called me and, you know, for the club, for the image of the club, you know, an ex-gangster and stuff is, you know, it's no good i think i won't play you tomorrow i was like but bossy no i'm joking and he was kind of like to oh i got him you know he was scared no no don't worry we train the first 11 on the team

everything perfect the the day of the game in the morning, I like to put music. I remember Ferguson allowed you also to order your breakfast in the room, you don't need to go downstairs and dancing. Tak, tak, tak. I said, okay, I think it's the room service, open the door. So Alex Ferguson, he said, son, I'm going to put you in the bench.

And they're going to start. But you know what? I know you're going to win you in the bench. Ends are going to start. But you know what? I know you're going to win the game for us. You know, it's really warm. Wembley, you're going to come in. I need some speed, some fresh. You're going to win the game. I know you're disappointed.

I said, I am very disappointed. He said, I know, I know, son, but trust me. And he left. So I remember after 10 minutes he asked me to warm up we weren't playing well I warmed up for 80 minutes it was even like

the smoke like I was like first of all I was really angry and I was like running like crazy mad because

I needed like you know all this frustration has to come out we lost 1-0 against Chelsea I remember we went to take the medal.

I take it. I throw it under grass. Ferguson tried to shake my hand. I didn't shake his hand. So first time in my life, I didn't respect him. My agent was there. Why you don't play? I said, go to ask your manager.

People from Manchester. Are you injury, Patrice? No. Go to ask your manager. I say to my agent, I need, go to ask your manager. People from Manchester, are you injured, Patrice? No. Go to ask your manager. I say to my agent, I need to go. I don't want to play for Man United anymore. Find me a club. No, Patrice, I need to go.

I don't want to play for Man United anymore. It was the party. Everyone was like with the family and stuff. I wasn't smiling. And three days later, Ferguson called me and he said, Patrice, I'm sorry sorry I should have played you I hope you're not too upset

and and because he told me that I automatically forgive him but I still don't know the reason especially

what's happening in the paper and the joke and I never ask him the reason. But yeah, I was, that's it. That's what I was, I don't want to play for United anymore. Are you going to ask him?

No, because I'm someone, you know, I know he see a lot of my interview and my stuff and even watch my videos. So maybe he's going to tell me one day, but I don't ask. I don't ask people. I just like to people they are free. If they want to say something about something,

they just tell me, I don't like to ask people. Does it bother you? When I talk about it, just think like, yeah, but not really because at the end, the rest of my career for United and the love I've got for this man, you know, his story. So no, but it's just, you know, his story. So no,

but it's just like, again, my past, maybe my past cost me, you know, my starting 11, but. Forgiveness.

The topic of forgiveness. Suarez. Suarez. In an altercation on the pitch pitch he called you Negrito I was watching that game which is a offensive word for a black person that incident was a

was a bit of a media circus wasn't it? Yeah but I will never expect that because so like you say and he called me and unfortunately for him, I speak Spanish. And I say, what did you say? And he said, again, the N word. And he said, anyway, I don't speak with any N, the n word so i remember in that time i was like this is this is when i was like also

proud of myself because i was talking to myself should i punch him but patrice this is a liverpool manchester all the kids are watching this game or it's people won't understand so i promise you this i had an amazing first half the second half i was just like it was a process talking to myself don't do it you know when you have like a the devil and an angel don't do it do it don't do it do it all the game i wasn't in the game and i play okay it was fine we drew and after the game i just sat and ferguson saw me and he was like patrice uh what's the matter you know you had a good game what's the matter i said no uh he had a good game. What's the matter? I said, no, David Degay. I said, Suarez called him a negrito.

I was like, Patrice, that's cool. He take me, we went to the referee. We tell him, he take note. But by the way, even on the pitch, I said to the referee, did you hear what he just say? He called me with the N word. Come on, Patrice.

He called me with the N word. Play, play, Patrice. He called me with the N-word. Play, play, play. We're going to deal with that later. Because I forget to always mention that. And it's a long time. And every interview, I never say that. And that referee, we're going to deal with that later. Really?

He called you that? Yes, he did. Okay. So we went to the official. We tell him, he say, yeah said yeah yeah Patrice told me about that so he was aware so Ferguson like kill him

so you were aware and why you didn't send him off yeah okay we're gonna deal with that and you know to the English Federation so the next day boom

front page Suarez you know racially abused Patrice Evra I didn't expect that so I don't know how possible i start to become a liar i start to become people in jail in liverpool sent many letter of they're going to kill me when they're going to come out of jail

people start following me with my car i had had for three months, 24 hours like security. But can I be honest with you? My brother, my family, they were like scared. But I was like, guys, we don't need that because I'm from the street. So come on, we don't need protection. But the threat were real. That's why my United, they said,

Patrice, even if you don't need that, we need. So for three months, like 24 hours and everything. So unbelievable. But the worst part is when we watch a game with all the players in Ferguson and we saw the Liverpool player came out with that shirt and support. And the worst part, he was like, he get banned.

So it's not like they do it when, before he get the ban he get banned because after he lies you know in my country we use the word like i know they use narrow but no negrito negrito is the n word narrow is the color and even i always say to people you don't have to call me by my color my mom give me a name i don't need to be anyway. So with the camera, they could see with his lips, like he say the N word. And they support him. And he was Kevin Daglish.

I remember I hate so much Kevin Daglish to let this happen that day. And the karma, he gets sacked after one month after that game. So I did a TV show with Jamie Carragher. And I promise you, hi, Jamie. Like, you know, we start talking and he said, Patrice, I just would like to apologize

about what's happening nine years ago. What we have done is wrong. I was in shock. I didn't expect that. I was like, wow, okay. He say, we didn't know, you know, the club tell us to do that. And after that, I received like, wow, okay. He say, we didn't know, you know, the club tell us to do that. And after that, I received like later

from the owner of Liverpool emails saying like, we saw you more than welcome here and everything. You can feel home. I will never feel home when I go to Liverpool. Thank you for that. But it was so nice. And I know many of my friends, they were like, Patrice, you should forgive them.

I say, guys, it's never too late. And I don't have any hate. And I keep saying, I can't call Luis Suarez a racist because I don't know him close enough to call him that way. But in that day, he used some racist word. And it get even worse for him when about the handshake. That's when I was like, okay, it's a disgrace. Because even when I called my mom

and my mom said, Wayne, you should forgive. And I remember that game was one of the most like topic was the end shake. It wasn't even Liverpool, Manchester. That's when I see like it was bigger than, that things was bigger than the game. And when I put, and he didn't, I was like.

You put your hand out, he didn't shake it. And I was like, I'm going to kill him now. I remember that game. I even take a Rio Ferdinand, you can see, because I wanted to catch Suarez, but he jumped. So I take like Rio Ferdinand and it's that picture when Rio Ferdinand, he looked like he's broking his neck because I wasn't wanting to play the game,

I just wanted to kill him. And I have one story also, after all those episodes, one day I was walking in the Manchester in Deansgate and my brother said, oh, he's Luis Suarez over there. I was with two of my brother. I look at him, I was like, that's Luis Suarez over there. I was with two of my brother. I look at him. I was like, that's it.

This is the moment. And he woke and behind him, I saw his kid and his wife. And I turned my back. I was like, if you do something to him, you can't do this in front of his family. So I don't regret it because I think it will end up bad and i didn't do nothing that day i saw him when we play against uh barcelona with juventus in the final i was talking with neymar he passed he called me shake my hand

say you okay i said i'm okay you're okay so no beef but we definitely know going to going holiday in our life but yeah have you forgiven him yeah but because like i say that's when now we i want to talk a little bit about the racism and like i said to people is about education no one born as a racist person. And you know, when you, when the football now, they ban people when they have those racist comment or, I don't think this is the solution. Because if you ban someone, you put him, I know he's really sensitive, but you put him in a box,

you don't resolve the matter. And even that person will even become more racist and feeling more rejected. But where he come from? I've got friend. They're not ashamed to tell me, Patrice, I've got black friend and everything, but my daughter or my son will never be with a black person because my dad or my granddad will never accept it.

So that's why I understand, you know, racism, you need to fight with your own parents. It's nothing to do, it's about religion. When it was the Paris attack, everyone started blaming the Muslim people. Islam, I did a post. I was on the plane. I say, you know what?

And by the way, I grew up as a Catholic, but if you ask me what is your best religion right now is to be the best human being I can. I'm not a Catholic. I'm as a Catholic, but if you ask me, what is your best religion right now is to be the best human being I can. I'm not a Catholic. I'm not a Muslim, but I can pray with Jewish people, with Muslim people, Buddha, everything, because I respect every religion. But now the religion, my religion is to be the best human being I can. Then I did that post when I say, I think it's not time to spread your anger.

You know, we should pray for the people we lost. I think it's not time to spread your anger. We should pray for the people we lost. And by the way, I read the Quran. Islam is such a beautiful religion. It's about love and everything. So I really, and it came from my heart. And I feel like I had to do it. My dad called me. What you doing?

You don't know them. They are terrorists and everything. I said that this is your opinion, you don't know them. They are terrorists and everything. I said that, this is your opinion, but it's not mine. He put the phone down. We didn't speak for two weeks.

He called me after two weeks. He said, I'm sorry. Say, wow, you're a man now. You stood to your own opinion. I said, yes, dad. And I won't change it. Like you can't because one person do something, then all the people are the same.

So that's why I like to give this example because sometime you have to stand up against your, you know, your own father, even if you scare him. Cause those people, the racist doesn't come like, because they just become racist, it's because they've been taught. So if we want to change something, it's about the education. And I have enough people pretending they want to fight against the racism.

And I will talk about massive like football industry. I give the example of that stupid Super League. Super League, yeah. A project, that project didn't even start we shut down that project in 24 hours i remember i watch on tv my ex-teammate the pontifician the fan fighting burning things like i was like wow i was watching i was like, wow. I was watching. I was like, oh my God. They are so unique, determinate. The president of the FIFA,

the UEFA FIFA. Oh, they are snake, those owners and stuff. Like, wow, we should. But I was like, but why we don't have the same determination when we talk about racism, especially in football? Players getting abused

every single game. But we don't stop. So don't pretend you want to do it when you don't. But the real reason, and me, I'm straight, and maybe I'm irritating a certain person. That Super League, you were touching their pocket. Racism? It's not about money.

Everyone like, don't care. Play on. You know, like even social media. I'm someone, I am on social media. I don't want any help from Instagram, from Facebook, from everything. Because you can delete your comment. You can like block people, everything. And anyway, when I have racist comment, I will do a nice video when I'm eating a banana and things because it really like, when I was 70 years old, people were throwing real banana in my face when I was playing. So it's not like someone behind his computer can affect me,

but this is Patrice. All the people, they're going to read comment about them. They're going to even suicide. No, when we're talking about the mental health.

So you have to explain me one things. When it's about the COVID-19, you get the flags right away. But when it's about the races, like sometimes you feel like those social media, they just let the race,

they spread the races on their own platform. So stop pretending. If you want to do something, let's do it. But I know until you know money is not involved things will difficult

to be changed yeah kick the races they asked me to put the shirts many times I go to the warm-up I didn't put that shirt because I don't it's fake

they asked me like to say no to the races in front of the camera many players respect no to races but the players they don't even care

because they just they tell them to say that come teach to people racism saying those words now you i say silence is a crime because people lose their life because of that you know you said your religion was to live a good life. No, to be the best human being I can be. To be the best human being you can. How do you define that now? What does that mean?

It means to be kind to people, to be kind to the universe, to make the world a better place, to help people. I'll be honest with you now and i say that not to make myself looking good when i do a video and i see a comment someone say oh patrice my dad passed away i watch one of your video and i smile thank you This is more important for me than win the Champions League or the Premier League because this touched my heart. You know, like I said, I play football, yeah, but also one of my biggest achievements, and I don't want to talk about it to spread it,

but it's when I opened my two shelters in Senegal for more than 400 kids. And I remember the day when I went there and they were singing for me because I give them food and you know school and everything that's when I'm like ah now I know why I'm on earth not just to kick a ball around that's it that's why I say people they I'm like an iceberg you know I like to use that that example because I think people didn't see the real Patrice. And, you know, many managers, they named me captain of the, you know, I remember the first time like Ferguson said, you're going to be the captain. And Rio was still playing, Giggs and Wynroon and a lot of people.

I was like, the French guys from the street, he's the captain of the biggest club, you know, in the world. But because they know that culture of sharing, leadership, not being selfish, all of that, this is me. And one thing that changed because of my woman is I'm taking care of myself now. I also want to be happy because before, if the world is happy, if are happy this make me happy but now patrice also sometimes he take his time like i had like can you believe in the last two years i have just one holiday to tell you like even now i'm retired but i'm more busy than when i used to play but for the first time i turned my phone off for a week. And it was just amazing. Because I don't allow to do that because I've got things to do. I've got people to take care of.

For the first time, I take care of myself. It was just magic. Like my woman just wanted to lock me down in that island and didn't want me to coming back. And I won't be able to do actually this podcast today. So we did it. I come back to reality but yeah this is tell you like i just i i it's not just want to be good i just want to be myself and

you know i never i had one one problem is like i still like to fight so this is like from from where i grew up so sometime my woman teach me like don't use your fist you know again on my book when i kicked that fan and people compare me to eric cantona but it wasn't my you know my goal in marseille but it's because this guy said like stop you know like talking like a monkey and anyway when we go back we're gonna cut the throat of your kids and i am a human being and that's why people forget sometimes footballer player, they think we are like robot, but no, we got feeling. When he did that, he came down.

So I kick him, I get eight months ban. I think 80K or fine, I don't remember. So I'm not perfect. And I don't want to be perfect. I want to be me. Some people, I am an example for them, but I don't want, it's not like I want to be perfect I want to be me some people I am an example for them but I don't want it's not like I want to be an example for anyone I just want to be me if I inspire people then perfect you are an iceberg you're definitely an iceberg that's for sure

and this book definitely reveals that the rest of the iceberg that doesn't sit above the water. And as someone, as I said, that's watched you on screen for many, many decades and has seen you more recently online and as a pundit on TV, I would never have guessed the sort of complexity and backstory that you have and your sort of you know it's an interesting word to use but your your vulnerability let's say in sharing all of that I think will do more good than you'll ever realize because it it opens the door for other people to share and as we said it creates a safe space for men young men men that come from where you come from men like me to also share and in sharing we liberate ourselves that tends to be what happens and then we we are we have permission to live a more free life because because of that so i want to thank you

for that i think that's uh one of the most um amazing things you can do and you've done that with this book and um on behalf of everybody that has the chance of reading it and i hope everybody does go and read it um thank you. No, thanks to you for having me and to also some emotion, you know, you bring out some emotion I didn't know one and I did many interview when I'm doing my book too and question like you asked me today. And it's really, I trust you the way I've been honest

and no, thanks to you because I'm already feeling better. And that's why i hope like every people and every kids they have the chance to to read my book and you know if they are like those issue to to come out it's not easy you know it's easy for me to tell them please come out but trust someone trust someone and trust me you is a massive like things i've got in my chest for so many years and for me like i say to my mom traveling and she was just devastated and sometimes she still sent me some voice notes she's crying because she could still don't understand so don't keep it don't keep it tell it to your parents tell it to your brother or your sister i've got 24 brothers and sister and i didn't even tell that to any one of

them so be yourself enjoy your life live the present and be good to the universe that's a beautiful ending i have just one more question for you and this is a question this is a new tradition we've started patrice where the previous guest on this podcast leaves a question for the next guest so the previous guest left a question for you and you're going to leave a question for the next guest as well and i'm going to find out what that question is because i've not actually read it yet okay here we go name three people dead or alive that you would have dinner with tonight if you could my mom my woman and you oh that's a tremendous honor yeah why me because because the way you many things came out and and you're an interesting person and i feel energy and i feel your soul and you're a good

soul and i can see you're doing all of this because you want to make the world a better place and you know when you surrendered around people like you you just improve and that's what i wanted you know sometimes i'm like don't surrender about negative people help them also to understand why they are negative but your your energy you're really curious i can feel it you're going deep you want to understand the reason why because it's easy to to did the book i have to but i wanted someone was able to ask me the reason why and that's what i you know i can have a conversation and we can have a dinner and we're going to talk about a lot of things and i really about the toxic you know masculinity yeah so that's why i pick you okay well we're going to organize that dinner so you know we'll figure it

out um for sure because i i feel the same way and as i'm still kind of early on that journey of understanding my ego and toxic masculinity and how it stands in my way the more men that i can speak to like yourself that have been on that journey and started to learn lessons the better it will be for myself selfishly but hopefully that's uh you know and i think you know the the good i think we've just done talking about that today and it's funny because i i know some of the people that listen to this and where they listen to it because they tag me and they are men that are driving eight hours on a monday morning up and down the country in big vans they are builders on building sites that want to be entrepreneurs and just again as we've done on this podcast creating that safe space where we can talk about feelings

and crying and your emotions and communicate communicating what's going on in your life oh it's the most important service i think we can do to men um so i hope we can carry on that conversation and i'm going to be pestering your pa to organize this dinner i'm going to pass you the book to write a question for my next guest but thank you so much it's been an absolute honor honestly it's been an absolute honor and you're a you're even more of a role model to me than you have been for the last 20 years and that's been that's hard to beat so thank you thank you thank you Thanks for watching!