The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Rita Ora: “I Lived With Constant Anxiety”…After Being Signed By Jay-Z At 18!!! (E265)

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

In this new episode Steven sits down with global superstar, Rita Ora. Rita Ora is a British singer and songwriter who first rose to prominence in 2012 with the number 1 single ‘Hot Right Now’, she released her first album, ‘Ora’ later that year. In 2015, Rita made her film debut in ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’, in the same year she was a coach on ‘The Voice UK’ and judge on ‘The X Factor’. In 2016, she was the host of ‘America’s Next Top Model’ and in 2018 she released her second album ‘Phoenix’. In 2020, she was a judge on ‘The Masked Singer UK’, and a year later in 2021, she became a coach on ‘The Voice Australia’. Rita’s third album ‘You & I’ is available now on all music streaming platforms. In this conversation Rita and Steven discuss topics, such as: Her childhood and life before success How her parents helped her achieve her dreams How Rita has always felt as if she has to prove herself Why she is scared of losing everything she has worked for The methods she has used to tackle anxiety and panic attacks Why she doubts she will ever feel as if she has ‘made it’ Being open and never denying who she truly is The sacrifices it has taken to reach the level she is at How her marriage has changed her life Her new album and what has inspired it You can listen to Rita’s new album, ‘You & I’, here: https://bit.ly/3XRlIbY Follow Rita: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3pNzDDu Twitter: https://bit.ly/3DaODym TikTok: https://bit.ly/3pOSA8J YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pGohRL Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to Amazon Music, who when they heard that we were expanding to the United States, and I'd be recording a lot more over in the States, they put a massive billboard in Times Square for the show. So thank you so much, Amazon Music. Thank you to our team. And

thank you to all of you that listened to this show. Let's continue. I was on a roller coaster, right? I was living my dream. But then when I would wake up, it'd be like silent and it wouldn't feel nice. Rita Ora. She's an international pop star. Who's had the most solo female UK top 10 singles in history. Everything I've done is about to disappear Who is Rita Ora? I came to the UK when I was one

We refuged from the war in Kosovo There was a sense of having to overwork to prove myself I was a naive, young dreamer And that's exactly what you should be at that age I was backed up by Jay-Z. I never thought Jay-Z would roll by with a brand new artist. After my first album everything shot to number one you know my life just changed overnight. I was looking for things in the wrong places I just went rebel. Eating really

bad, I was drinking and the media And I was having the craziest panic attacks. It feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long, long time. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken that is going to put you back together. Don't believe all the promises that people tell you. What was the advice you needed but didn't get? Oh man. In life sometimes the external worlds will craft your narrative and your story and your identity for you and often we're told that saying less is more. Now Rita, for much of her life, has followed that philosophy. But today, she's decided to say more.

And what you learn from this conversation will be illuminating. It will be inspiring. It will make you understand Rita Ora, the person you've seen and heard about for a decade. But maybe even more importantly, through this conversation, the twists, the turns and the untold stories of a young woman who was signed at 18 by Jay-Z. Crazy, crazy story. You're going to learn something about yourself. I know I did. Rita. Hello. Take me back. Where'd you come from? I am from Pristina, Kosovo in a country called Kosovo. Wow. It's tiny. It's gorgeous. What brought you here here i came to the uk when i was one in 1991 i was born in 1990 and we refuged from the war in kosovo and i've been living in london

ever since why did why did your parents choose to come here of all places? I think it was just such an easy route as well. It was close enough to home, but not close. You know, it was also a lot of family and cousins that my parents already knew moved to London. So it was kind of the safest bet for them, I think. And you were one and your siblings were your siblings so it was it was just me and my sister so I was one and my sister was three she's two years older than me my brother wasn't born yet he was born here um yes it was just four of us really yeah

and when you arrived here I read that you were taken to a care home so when we first moved to London not that I remember properly obviously I was I was a kid, but my parents obviously asked favors from some existing friends that they already knew here. And we just moved around a lot. It wasn't necessarily a care home, but it just wasn't our home. But it never felt, you know, hard. My parents were really good at kind of still celebrating our birthdays and playing music and you know my upbringing was so happy and so I was really lucky we never really saw the struggle my parents were really good at that you know when you first came here sometimes you hear these stories of and I've sat here with a lot of people who have come here when they were very very young I've got one particular friend who's I've been on this podcast before she's very

successful she's one of my best friends she came here when she was a baby as a refugee when she first arrived here there was a an early like um separation event because her parents essentially couldn't take care of her so they put they had someone else looking after her right um and then i sat here with gabble mate do you know who that is yeah he's i mean he's one of my favorite people ever. Wow. And he talks about those early moments. I've seen all, kind of a lot of your interviews.

I don't know why I didn't see that one. Have you not seen that one? I don't know. I'm sorry. I have to check it out. Please donate me. No, I don't. Don't worry.

There's so many of them that I don't expect people to keep up. And I was trying to understand at that early stage when I was reading about your story, if there was a separation event or if your parents had, because I read the word care home somewhere. Yeah, well, it wasn't really a separation. But it was, it was a room given to us by the government, the council, and it was not a council estate house. It was just more of like a temporary home. So maybe that's where you kind of got the phrase care home that's from what I remember was in Elscourt and then we actually moved to

our council flat in West London and you've lived in West London most of your life and I've been in West London that's my whole life yeah what is it you inherited from your parents in terms of like character for better or for worse and I say that because some of the things that I'm most proud of are things that my parents probably didn't intentionally yeah give me that they were they were things that weren't in the like how to raise a child well manual they weren't in there I don't think my parents were doing that either they were also really young I mean you know I think we're kind of in the same age bracket but with my parents you know they were having kids at like 22 23 24 you know, I think we're kind of in the same age bracket, but with my parents,

you know, they were having kids at like 22, 23, 24. You know, if I'm thinking, gosh, having a kid then now that it would be crazy different, but there was a lot that they taught me without knowing, you know, for example, the language was always spoken in the house. So luckily now I can speak two languages. Now I'm not amazing at it but I understand it and can read it and speak it um a lot of resilience like a lot that was a big thing in the house like hard work resilience and sort of showing up and sticking by your word you know like when you tell someone you're going to do something you better do it because otherwise that's like a big it's just sort of a

real disrespect if you're promising someone something and you don't deliver yeah your mother was a doctor back in Kosovo yeah a psychiatrist yeah great she's so cool my dad was actually studied economics and he was doing that a a lot of accounting stuff. And, you know, they moved here and basically had to start again. So my dad worked in a pizza spot in Notting Hill Gate and my mum didn't work and she started to learn the language and basically figure out how she was going to get her degrees and things and then she just had to restudy to get the qualifications.

My mother did anyway. I remember that. That was hard. It was hard. Yeah. Well, it was a lot because, you know, I was going to school. My sister was going to school. We were living in a council stay in Labrador Grove,

which is big up West London. I'll love it forever. But at the time she was like trying to qualify her English studies, studying psychiatry, and she was also battling breast cancer. So there was three things. And she was also in her thirties, which is really rare. She was like in her late 30s when she actually got breast cancer the first time and so there was a lot happening you know at once so yeah that was my memory of that point yeah at that young age i think we start to kind of piece figure out who we are and how we're different i think we start to develop suspicions that we're talented in this way or different in this way or women maybe we have a problem with authority in

this way what did you at that young age um did you start to figure out anything about yourself and who you are and why you are different or if you are different in certain ways yeah I mean parent evening was always an interesting one because my parents at the time couldn't really speak English so my sister bless her even to this day she was always the one that was like helping me with my homework or got to a certain age where she was kind of the one that was helping me with my maths homework because my mother couldn't really do it so it'd be like oh Elena can you read that or my sister her name's Elena could you do that or can you do that so it was interesting to see like now as adults how much pressure my older sister actually had and

it was kind of difficult I would think for her I don't want to speak for her but I think it definitely felt like we were sort of running, you know, the ship while they were kind of trying to collect all the pieces and put food on the table, really. So, yeah, primary school had a lot of ups and downs. You know, in school it was super fun. And yeah, and then we did like Cinderella and it was all these really fun night musicals. And I would get, you know, I got the Cinderella role in like year five. And that's when I was like, oh, I could do this singing thing. I kind of like this. And that's when I think I really thought, oh, I think I want to be a singer. So interesting. Yeah.

How did you, how did you know you were good at it? I didn't. I just got the role. And then I thought, well, I must be good since I got the main role of Cinderella. Did anybody give you any feedback since someone anyone come yeah I did do school choirs you know I would go to the school choirs after school um and I love this teacher her name was Susie and she um really worked me hard and she would really include me in all the choirs and they would do a lot of charity events and things like that. And I would always take a solo. And she actually called my parents and said, you know, I think you should really try and hone in on Rita's music talent because I think she's got something special.

And that's sort of where it started. How did your parents receive that phone call? Because they're traditional parents. Well, my mum was really excited. And so so was my dad but my dad was more practical I mean they're kind of old school you know my parents are still they were raised in Kosovo so it was get married have babies you know and so my mom always was a dreamer you know she definitely still is and she was always like sing for us at parties and this and that. But I don't think either of them thought I would ever do a job in this, actually sort of do it for real.

Yeah. When you used the word resilience a second ago as one of the things that your parents taught you. Yeah. I'm assuming from that that you mean that they, you observed them being resilient as well. They worked really hard. They still do, even though they're getting a bit older

and they kind of feel like retirement is close. I think deep down, they don't ever want to stop working. But they were so, so real in the sense of being completely open with money and work. And my father sort of doing double shifts sometimes. And, you know, my mum, when she would get stressed, it would really impact us, me and my sister, you know, and we always used to sleep together because, I don't know, I guess I don't, didn't want to sleep alone. So we would always kind of just hear them talking, you know, like mumbling away when we were younger.

But it was interesting because it was so nice to have my sister with me I don't know how I would have done that alone you know what coming to the UK and yeah growing up here and yeah yeah yeah just sort of doing that whole thing I explained to you alone I just I can't fathom it honestly you know there are there's some friends I have that have no siblings that have the same sort of story as me that have done it alone and I'm just kind of like I can only I don't know I just don't know it's nice when you don't feel when you have someone else going through the same thing as you you know well a lot of people as well don't have a situation where they watch their parents kind of like fighting

to survive yeah and that's a that's a watch their parents kind of like fighting to survive. Yeah. And that's, in some respects, quite a traumatic thing to observe. But it also means that there's a certain absence. I can relate to that with my mother. Like, she was so obsessed with working that she would sleep in that shop, her little corner shop. Yeah. And it was like watching someone fight to survive.

I feel like I have a privilege where I'm thinking more about like happiness and fulfillment and yeah all of these next level things but my mum was like food on table you know yeah so was mine um I think that the hard work really does stem from me knowing that I'm you know not my blood isn't English but I feel English I am English I mean I was raised here this is my home you know but there was a sense of having to overwork to prove myself yeah for sure like I deserve to be here kind of thing does that ever stop no I mean I actually asked myself this the other day. I was like, is it enough? But I'm always like, I want more. I want, I want to do it again. Um, what's next? And it just, I don't think it will ever go away. I don't think that feeling of me feeling satisfied will ever happen. I don't know. I love i love working you know i'm really lucky i do

do what i love it's not like i wake up dreading what i do but it's more like yeah you're right like it doesn't i just don't know if i will ever be like i did it you know i'm always like okay so now what you know what's next is there sometimes when you have um a child that came here as a as an immigrant or came here early and watched that, like watch the watch the generation above them fight for survival. They almost inherit this fear of losing it all. And that I'm thinking about my friend here. The one I said that you remind me of. Her story is very, very similar. Came here as a refugee when she was young.

She is an obsessive alcoholic. Yeah. And I feel like she called me the other day in fact i'm sure she went i'll have to ask her i can share this but yeah she called me the other day and she said to me that um because there was so much insecurity in her childhood in terms of like things didn't feel secure um she's her work is the only thing that gives her that sense of security as an adult so she's fighting to maintain that yeah i relate to that it definitely is one of my reasons of purpose for sure which is a blessing but also a curse because obviously if things don't always turn out how you want it ends up crumbling more

of you than you need it to does that make sense so you kind of feel less than rather than remembering everything else that you've done because that one incident, for example, may have not have gone how you wanted it to. Everything's gone wrong. And I think that's something that I've been really working on as well with my therapist. It's almost sort of like compartmentalizing things. But because my life is my work, it almost regulated my sense of happiness, which I think sometimes could be really damaging, you know, especially if you kind of wake up not feeling good about yourself

or you sometimes wake up and you're kind of like, oh, I'm not feeling it today, which is I think what everyone goes through. And I definitely go through it. You know, I've really got to remember, you know, there are other points that bring me joy. That's something I've been really working on, especially in my 30s. Now I'm getting a bit older. Yeah.

And when you were, I think you were 15 years old um your mother vera vera yeah like aloe vera same as my grandmother oh cute it's a rare name it is very rare yeah she was diagnosed with breast cancer and this from reading through your story was quite a pivotal it seems to be quite a pivotal moment in your life even still today i think oh yeah it was really hard for me it was like I don't know why I always say this but you know I felt like my parents were like superheroes like they were untouchable undiable you know and I was just almost like nothing is gonna crack them and then when I sort of saw my mum starting to kind of get weaker and weaker and lose her hair I was thinking oh my gosh they can also die you know and it was almost like what am I gonna do and I took it upon myself to try and

find a solution and obviously you know I couldn't but you don't think that all the way through you're just seeing your mum just kind of really weak and you know I was skipping school and I would just you know I just went rebel and it was really hard for me you went rebel yeah I just really went the opposite way and you know my parents worked really hard to get me into this school which was it's a really famous school and it was a fantastic Sylvia Young Theatre School. And it's like, I mean, it was the best times of my life was at that school. But when my parents were, you know, struggling, my mum was ill, I just, I couldn't focus. I just couldn't focus in school. I was just distraught. And I just kind of wanted to be with her all the time but she didn't want us to see her like that so you know

she wouldn't take us to her treatments and she'd wear a wig and things like that so she wouldn't really kind of we wouldn't visually see the pain basically you were trying to find a cure you said you were trying like yeah so weird right like i don't know i think i was just i think me and my sister almost blamed i don't know what we were just trying to find the answer and it's like obviously we would have done anything to get our mum out of that pain you know so yeah we don't really know what we were gonna do but we just went into sort of survival panic mode and yeah that was my experience I was just really struggling with it was really hard for me is Rita before that incident different to Rita after that incident in a like a fundamental way

yeah I just really do appreciate people my parents more than I did before so you know like every kid sometimes your parents kind of get on your nerves or you're like oh I can't stand them when they do this or that but I always think like you just don't know when they're gonna go so I've really made a conscious effort to appreciate them more than ever and if I ever see my siblings or the ones that i love kind of naturally just react out of instinct or something i'm like just remember you know what i mean it's like just they're your parents you don't want that to be the last thing that you say to them you know i'm that's where my head is at now we cope in a variety of different ways to to these traumatic events some people you know you described becoming a bit of a rebel some people i mean use work as a convenient distraction other people go to therapy and confront it head on

how do you cope how are you a coper when when these kind of things happen in life how does rita cope work i just really throw myself into work or I try and find a project that I'm really passionate about to just sort of distract I'm I'm good at distracting myself for sure yeah I mean therapy's been an incredible thing that I've discovered you know since I was 26 I kind of started um and my mum always would say, you should do it. You should do it. Obviously, she doesn't use her sort of doctoness on us. But, you know, she was really adamant on us doing therapy.

And then I finally, you know, again, you have to find it yourself. And so I did. And that really helps. But work is something I do really focus and distract myself with. This whole concept of like mental health is quite a new one in our society. Yeah. I read that you'd started having anxiety attacks and panic attacks and stuff shortly after your mother's diagnosis. And that I'm presuming you hadn't had those before.

No. before no I never really understood when people would say oh I have the panics or oh I got such bad anxiety I wouldn't I was never really kind of like but then it happened I think it was the idea of losing the one that I the ones I love that kind of put me into panic. I like structure. I like routine. I like trying to resolve situations. So... Security? Security I was never really obsessed with. It's weird.

I was more obsessed with like me just knowing that I have a routine to go to work. You know, I'm always in fear of losing everything that I've got. I don't think that will ever go away. And I actually spoke to somebody who's a very famous actor, and you'd never think in a million years that they have that fear. And he said that there is a therapist that just deals with the fear of losing the money, whatever it is that they're obsessed with or that they love

at such a high level i mean this person is one of the biggest actors in the world and so i always thought i was like what how this person deals with that i couldn't believe it so it's nice to know that you know it's a common thought think, especially if you come from not a lot of money. Yeah, and if you come from a place where you've seen the opposite, but also just the fragility of it. I mean, you must have been inundated with stories when you were a kid of like,

I used to be a doctor and now I'm having to go back to square one again. Because your father was like a restaurateur back in Kosovo. And so you've kind of seen, even if you weren't there to see it, square one again yeah because your your father was like a restaurateur back in kosovo and you so you've kind of seen even if you weren't there to see it but you've heard the stories of going from here to here really quickly too really quickly it's hard yeah i mean it is something that i like have nightmares about sometimes really yeah because i think now it's not just about me.

You know, I think ever since I started, I was always speaking, I like to think, on the majority of people that don't necessarily get the shot that I got. You know, coming from where I'm from, being able to live my dream. If I didn't move to the UK, I don't really know what I would be doing and so I was always really vocal about my gratitude and sort of like this is possible and that's why I work with UNICEF and I go and do these trips as an ambassador because I see these kids and I really want to kind of put this hope in them. Yeah, that's a massive priority for me. Reading between the lines, I was hearing like the gratitude, like with that sometimes comes another feeling,

which is like, why me? You know, of all the, because you look back at the dominoes that had to fall for you to be here and you go, oh, why me? True. Why you? That's a good question. Yeah, I guess I got something to say.

I think if you have something to say and you can create this following of honesty and you have this real fan base of people that think that they know you, I think that's something that could live on forever. And I think that's something that I inherit. I have this sort of genuine connection that I love people. I genuinely do. I love talking to people. Hence why I got into TV. I do really enjoy communicating and making people feel what I'm feeling or trying to give people a sense of happiness or joy or just kind of being like you know what I get that too or oh she's just like us

because that's what I was looking up to when I was a kid you know all the singers I loved growing up were super relatable and super transparent Tina Turner who has the same birthday as me, so I never have met her, RIP Tina, but I always felt so connected to her because I knew everything about her and she was so honest with her story. And so that's sort of the footprint I want to make. I want people to, you know, I know not everyone's going to like me,

you know, it's normal, but at least they're going to know the story and appreciate the climb basically from from that so the first time you you joined that choir to when you first get signed what happens in that period in terms of like the things that you controlled to make you go from the choir to the record label when you look back and go the reason why I got from there to there was really it comes down to x right what is that x showing up so the reason why I think I got there is because I interned at a recording studio and I was making people tea and mopping the floors for free and delivering backing vocals for free for people that needed harmonies,

Craig David being one of them. And I was there. I was ready. I was available. I was existing within the atmosphere and I was there at the right time. You have to be willing to get up and get out of bed and just be there. You have to show up, whether it's like offering your work for a place and knowing you're not going to get paid, but you're going to be

amongst musicians or something like that. Or it's about being heard. And, you know, I would sing at my dad's pub. I would, I'm on Portobello market working in a sneaker shop and I was controlling the music in the shop and I would play like a demo of mine and I would just try everything I could to just sort of be there, be present, be seen. Yeah. What was your aim at that point in terms of, if I had asked you, you know, what are you going to be when you're older, when you're working in that shoe shop, when you're interning, did you, would you say, I'm going to be Tina Turner? I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't have a plan.

I just was like, I need to figure this out because I left college and my dad was so mad at me. And I mean, he didn't speak to me for ages. And he just wanted me to have a real secure future, which I understand. But I said, Dad, just let me do this for a year. And if I can't do it, I will go back to college. And now I'm 31 and I haven't gone back to college yet. It's never too late.

Is he okay with it? I think he's okay now. Okay, good. But I do think that there was a lot of fear circulating around that time of my life because I was like, I have to figure it out. But you know know there was a Steve Jobs quote and it's kind of like if you have a plan B you're never really going to put your all in plan A and I didn't have a plan B at all it was like working in the shoe shop and then going to

intern at the studio and hoping something is going to like figure it out I don't know something was going to happen and it did what happened this A&R lady came in for another artist that was recording in that studio facility and there was a demo that I lended my vocals on because I needed somebody to sing it the producer that owned that studio was making music with a lot of other producers and musicians. And he didn't have a vocalist to cover this one song. Long story short, it got around and they were playing this music because they were selling these songs to their artists. And then somebody said, okay, well, who's singing that? And it was me and they were like we want to meet this person and that's kind of when everything started to click and that was Jay Brown who works with Jay-Z and

that was the whole introduction to signing to Rock Nation and you I heard they got you on a plane you flew out there you went to some. I did all of that. Yeah, I did the whole thing. And they signed you straight away. Yeah, they did. They signed me straight away. Kind of like that night I was exhausted. I flew in from London and it was scary, but it was so exciting.

It was like everything was happening at once. And you were how old? Just turned 18. Wow. Yeah. And then I moved to Brooklyn. I went from sharing a room with my sister to having my own apartment in Brooklyn, like overnight. What was the advice you needed but didn't get at that point in your life?

Don't believe all the promises that people tell you. Interesting. What should we do instead? Other than believing the promises we should i think other than believing in the promises you should work on what your craft is to make sure that you can stand alone and not need anybody else to help you stand up that might not mean a straight away number one record, but at least you have your DNA. And that for me is timeless. And it can really help you in the longevity of a career. Having a quick one hit obviously is great, but then what, you know? And so that's what I've learned. It's like,

not everything is going to go and then you're like, I'm good forever because it doesn't work like that. I wanted people to love me as a person and really sort of back me up because they liked me. And then came the music and then came the TVs and whatever else that we're doing. But it was just important for people to really feel like they know me. Why? Because I felt like if everything goes bad, at least people will love me as a human, which is a real kind of, I would say, it's an insecurity maybe it is a bit of an insecure insecurity sort of factor of wanting to feel wanted but with music and with entertainment your job is to really be

present for these people and really show up for these people and everyone that's watching and to take them out of their misery. And so sometimes it's not about your misery or about what you're going through and you've got to really just be selfless. Have you always had that in you, that desire to be kind of wanted?

If you go back to the first 18 years of your life, have you always had that desire to just be wanted and to be kind of wanted if you go back to you know the first 18 years of your life have you always had that desire to just be wanted and to be accepted a little bit why are you smiling because i remember it was more about like i don't know i guess growing up i was me and my girlfriends you know we were like we were really sort of like flamboyant you know with our like looks and we would wear makeup and we would wear all these crazy clothes. And yeah, we did get attention for it. And sometimes it was the wrong sort of attention, but we were just sort of kids figuring it out. But that's why I'm laughing because we were so not knowing.

Now thinking back, it was like we had no idea what we were doing. But that was my first feeling of like, oh, people are liking what I'm looking like or they like what I'm wearing or, oh, that feels kind of good, you know. And then I got into the public eye and I was sort of like, it's so intense. It's not as controlled as it was when i was walking up and down portobello market you know because we you talk about that moment of maybe you would have whispered in rita's ear and told her to like focus on her craft and what she can own so she's not reliant on other people but when you're 18 yeah and I suspect from where you come from,

you just want to kind of please people and you want to just, any opportunity is fucking better than Portobello Road shoe shop. Yeah, I was a naive, young dreamer. And that's exactly what you should be at that age. I mean, you're not supposed to be anything else. All you want is to just win and you want to do well and you want to impress. And I was backed up by some real big, big people, you know, Jay-Z and these huge artists that are timeless and fantastic. And I wanted to be as good as them. And so when I was 18, I was like, I would do anything to kind

of be at that level. And everything that was given to me I was sort of like let's do it let's go let's go let's go sure because they must be right and I must be wrong because they're huge superstars and I'm not so there was that as well that was going on so interesting because I think even if people aren't in the music industry they can relate to this in their everyday jobs which is sometimes we think there's we cannot question authority in any regard and we cannot question if someone's successful and they have a path for us we should just do what they say and follow that path but but they're not always right even the big big guns you know like it's it's about your story it's you know you have your own script that's about to be written out for you and

I think now I'm at this point where I wish I knew that because I can really dictate that now which is really cool but I think that comes with age I mean what you're going to do you're young you're not supposed to know all those things you know you've just got to hope hope for the best and learn from your mistakes, right? Oh yeah. I mean, I'm not perfect. Everybody knows that. I think I've been a very transparent public figure, you know, and I've never sort of denied

or I've always been super honest with my fans and I will continue to do that and sometimes make mistakes along the way. Because you've had such an extreme career experience starting at 18, what are some of the universal lessons that you might turn to someone who is a little bit further down the ladder

in terms of their career? Maybe they're working in a completely different job. But some of that advice, you said like about questioning authority and people don't always know what's best for you. But in terms of how to be successful, because you would have seen both sides of that advice you said like about questioning authority and people don't always know what's best for you but in terms of how to be successful well because you would have seen both sides of that coin yeah with those eyes you've seen why people come become successful and why talent is often not good enough for some other people yeah it's true well you know I think it's about longevity it's

about being a businesswoman and I think it's really important to get the right team. You know, I've had the same team since I was 16. I don't really like changing people up around me unless I really have to. I like familiarity. I like consistency. Now, it's also about sacrifice. I think I've missed a lot of things, birthdays, family events, funerals, weddings, everything you can imagine for my job. So, for example,

going on tours, even going to visit things and seeing shows or going to get inspired. You have to always be willing to work and be consistent in getting inspiration. That's also a big thing for me. Creatively, I think you have to be wanting to achieve those things. So it's like, oh, I want to do a rock and roll album. Okay, so let's go learn the DNA of rock and roll and do it properly or read a book or I want to be

an author of self care or I want to learn how to, I don't know, I do the homework. I'm a big person. I'm a massive nerd in music. You know, I do pop music, but I know a lot and people get really surprised. You know, I do play a lot of different genres and styles and all my inspirations come from me being a nerd and learning music from composers to mixers to producers to who did what behind the scenes. It's like you have to do the homework and then you have to convince people to do it with you. That's like another stage. So you're constantly really just working, selling. Yeah, I think, especially with everything that you do, you know, it's like 10,000 hours.

Like I really believe in that theory, you know. That takes 10,000 hours to become a master. Yeah, I genuinely do. I do that a lot, as much as I can. Are you a confident person? It's an interesting word because it means so much, the word confidence. But do you think you're a confident individual let me define it when you think

when you think set yourself a goal or you flirt with a goal yeah yeah yeah yeah are you the type of person that goes a hundred percent i can do that i'm good at being an autopilot confident person what does that mean where you can just slip into being confident as in masking it as much as you possibly can like i'm you won't ever see my face kind of feeling a sense of doubt or insecurity if i'm having to show up as rita aura but i always have it going on in my mind do they like this am i saying the right thing do I look weird am I wearing crazy clothes I mean I do it because I love it and I go out there and I'm like this is who I am but I have the doubts constantly in my mind is it good enough is it good enough is it good enough

what's your journey with confidence been like because people will look at you today I think they see you on the red carpets and these great outfits and stuff and smiling and pat, pat, pat, pat, pat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they go, oh, she's just born confident. She's just born with it. And she's, you know, she's got self-doubt. It's no thing for her.

Never imposter syndrome, none of that. That's just me. No, I have it all like really intensely. But I do everything in my power to like keep my brain and my heart calm. So my thoughts are going to be there. I've discovered that and I've accepted that. But now I'm really getting good at controlling where they live. Whereas before it was really hard for me to do that. And that's what therapy has really helped me do so I've become really obsessed with my with working out and being physical and figuring

out what I eat and I fast a lot and I do a lot of that and it kind of keeps me calm I don't put myself myself in situations where I'm gonna panic like if I don't want to go somewhere, I just won't go. And before I'd be like, oh, I have to do this or I have to do that. And, you know, I think as you get older, you're like, you know what? You don't have to do these things anymore. And a lot of meditating, a lot of incense and smells. I'm a big smells person, but these are my tools. This is what helps me me I don't journal as much but I did journal for this album that's out and it was great I mean would I do it all the time no but I do more of kind of like voice notes and working out and meditating and eating well yeah that's like my thing have you gone on a bit of a journey with understanding how Rita's feeling because I hear the 18 year old that moved to Brooklyn

that seemed to be a person who was very much just listening to the external world's yeah impression of how she should be feeling you should be happy now and then it seems through your story that there was kind of a there's been a pivot helped via therapy where you're getting better at understanding how you truly feel in situations yeah but you know it's still a struggle you know I've felt like I mean like anyone when you feel overwhelmed with something it's like your whole world is falling apart you know it wasn't just work it was everything like my my love life my friendship with my friends and i wasn't paying attention to you know the ones that really loved me for me well just sort of in my 20s right after my first album everything shot to number one you know my

life just changed overnight it was like okay let's go and so you know I was just doing that I was living my dream I was you know going out with my band and you know I was just not really checking in with my closest friends and my families and I just I lost touch a little bit I was on a roller coaster ride and then I kind of brought that back you know I did when I in my second album and now my third album this this time around I'm you know I'm in a completely different sort of headspace what was the how did you know you'd lost yourself because we found out we typically find out after because of some kind of symptoms in the moment we don't know but what was the symptoms that you'd lost yourself well the search of being wanted and being loved by you know boyfriends and things like that there was what do you mean it was just sort of like my 20s felt

like I was kind of low alone and so you know I was looking for things in the wrong places you know with love and sometimes it wouldn't be good for me and people would tell me and I wouldn't listen. I was eating really bad. I was drinking and my dad was so, so, so on board with, you know, parties and I was jumping on the bar and singing songs. And so alcohol was just like a real normal thing in my family. And it was fun. It was just a fun time for me in my 20s. But then when I would wake up, it'd be like silent and it wouldn't feel nice. So, yeah, that's what I mean about my messy 20s. It was just a journey it was like what anyone would go through though you know I've I've learned to understand that not

everyone figures it out in their 20s that's such an interesting way to describe it it was silent and it didn't feel nice so many people can relate to that yeah yeah you know you don't want to live in silence sometimes because you don't want to kind of understand you. That's so true. Yeah. And so you're kind of like, put the radio on, go do something. I don't know. Anyway, that was me. Yeah. But you did something that most people who would say that didn't do, which was then you went and you started your journey in therapy, which is literally the opposite, which is I'm going to understand me. I don't know if this is a thing,

but quarter life crisis, is that a thing? We've heard that before, yeah. Is that like a known phrase? Yeah, well, I've heard it before. But when I was 25, it was a real weird time for me. It was like my second album was kind of coming out-ish. Gosh, I'll never forget this. I was doing The Prince's Trust and I've been working with them for a long time.

There was one occasion I did it at the Royal Albert Hall and I was wearing a blue outfit. And I remember Tom Hardy was also in the line to meet our now king. And I went into that bathroom and my hands were tingling and I was having the craziest panic attack. And that was the first time when I was 25 and my tour manager, Rich, who's been with me for ages, I was like, Rich, I need a couple of minutes. I don't know if I can do this. I thought my legs were going to give way and I don't know what was going on. I've met our now king before. I mean, I don't know. I was performing that day as well.

I just don't know what happened. I went into the bathroom and I was like, I mean, I felt sick. I didn't know what was going to go on. And then I got out and I stood in that line and I just went, and I just met Prince slash King Charles. And I just was not there. It was, but you know, if you look at that photograph, you wouldn't even know.

And then I went out and I sang and I messed up the lyrics and completely got it wrong, but nobody really noticed. But that was when I was 25. And ever since then, I was just petrified of that feeling again. And I learned that through therapy, that is you get panics from not wanting to get a panic attack. And that's how you sort of drive your panic attacks. That's what happened to me. I was more in fear of feeling like that again.

That would put me into the realm of going down that spiral. A lot of people don't. I've got friends. Some of the stories you've said remind me of some friends of mine and a lot of them don't want to have the conversation with a therapist because they're scared of what it brings out and what it brings up a lot of people say that um interesting you and it was that's why i'm linking that to the moment where you wake up and it's quiet and you go i don't like the quiet because yeah but i never really did there was always music playing even when i was a kid my mom would always have the bgs and abba and. There was always music playing. Even when I was a kid, my mum would always have the Bee Gees and ABBA and all.

There was always noise in my house and the windows were open and the dishes were clacking and clicking. And, you know, there was always life happening in my childhood. And you turned that chapter around in your life, that 25-year- old party chapter yeah I haven't had as many of that feeling as I thought I was gonna have and now I know it I mean I also wasn't familiar with it remember I didn't have them growing up and it just hit me you know the pressure of being famous and the pressure of meeting all these real sort of incredible people and me not feeling like I was good enough to be there you know it just built up on me what's your like relationship like with trust it comes in waves because I was thinking about that experience at 18 you were saying about like

kind of trust yourself more um trust in work is very slim what about trust broadly you said it comes in waves trust broadly i'm very very trusting i think more to a fault you know i also i like to give people chances rather than give them no chances which sometimes has kind of put me in a predicament but again i just see the best in people and i always have and i and i hope that people do that for other people that's why i do that you know uh now with things like oh you know if you if you do this with us then you know we can maybe achieve this for you that you've always wanted to achieve in your work life that is something i'm very questioning with like if if you come with us well i need to see the proof before i do that like big promises yeah i

think that's again maybe something to do with my experience in my work life. You know, it's just, I've been disappointed so many times and I've been left with nothing so many times that I just don't ask anyone for anything anymore. Basically. But it's got you far I mean yeah but even that trust seems to have got you to an incredible incredible place even if it maybe has hurt you along the way yeah well because I've made incredible relationships that's the one thing I'm very grateful for even if I've been disappointed and sometimes those bridges haven't seen the end I've created incredible relationships

with people that have seen my struggles and have seen me work really hard and in a circumstance unfortunately not get to where it needs to be but have seen you know what really did work hard on that and years down the line they would call me and be like I remember that and do you want to this? And so you just never know why things are happening to you. But you planted seeds, essentially. Yeah, I really did. And I made really great friends, genuine friendships. And I don't really, I never really knew what they did.

And some I did, but it didn't matter. It was just about connecting. Connecting is really important. So five years ago was the last time you released an album what what goes into this music this because music music i see it as like different chapters of your life it's the same with like books and stuff it's a chapter of of who you are often um yeah what what are you pouring into your music these days like what experiences are you pouring into them so you know i've been in the business now for over a decade so i'm looking at timeless i'm looking at pop icon i'm looking at things that can stand the test of time because i'm a 360 entertainer and what does that look and feel

and sound like and so now i'm i'm at that point in my life of like, how are we establishing this work ethic that I've done all these years to get to this point? And how are we going to become the new Rita Ora pop star in her 30s and enjoy the ride, you know, and really bring people along for the journey. And so that's what my album You and I is. It's like a rebirth of this incredible position that I'm in, of owning my masters, being in charge of my decisions with music and having an incredible team that can see the future. It's about longevity. It's like, okay, well, this is another step to this point. And then hopefully when I'm like in my 50s and 60s,

you'll look back and be like, she's still here. You know, that's the goal. That's the aim and the journey of life. That's what I love about Kylie Minogue and Jennifer Lopez. These women stand the test of time, in my opinion, and they keep coming back and delivering. And that is something that I aspire. It's not easy women stand the test of time, in my opinion, and they keep coming back and delivering. And that is something that I aspire. It's not easy to do that.

No, but it's also, yeah, it's not easy, but they've done that by accepting failure. They've accepted failures at certain points in their careers and have kept going and kept driving and kept thriving. And then they're still here. What failure have you accepted? You know, like certain things maybe not positioning chart wise as well or making decisions that may have not been right mistakes being made or how are you as an individual we're dealing with those moments like honestly like when those things happen, how does,

if I'm a fly on the wall. Yeah. Regret is horrible. You know, I know a lot of people can relate to that, but it feels, you know, I was, I feel broken. Like it makes me feel like everything I've done is about to disappear. Again, back to that fear of sort of losing everything. And, you know, when the world is also looking at you, I don't know, you just, you just break, you just break down. You just get so fearful. And, um,

you know, all I was thinking about was like my mom and dad, because they've worked so hard to get me to this point. And, you know, it's not, again, it's not just about me, you know, on my boat that I'm keeping afloat, you know, I've got my whole family. And so, you know, you can't going but at the time you know you know you get dragged through hell it's a lot rita a lot of responsibility it feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long long time yeah because um i've always just been myself i've always just tried to be really genuine and I've never changed for like who I am and that's probably why that that's probably why I do make these sort of you know I don't always get it right like who does do you know what I mean um but it makes I, I feel more human about that, you know.

I'm just a human, you know, at the end of the day. So the media and all the craziness that comes with what I do, I've now learned to really sort of separate that, like work life and real life. That doesn't feel like my real life anymore. My real life is having dinner at home and like hanging out with my husband and becoming a stepmom and trying to figure out how to cook for kids you know that's kind of like like that the real life is that for me now you've been taking

care of your family for since since much younger than anyone should really be you know taking care of their families from what i read um looking after them paying for your parents yeah house and stuff like that yeah when you talk about the fear of losing it all as well is is and you mentioned your parents there which was kind of surprising to me but it brought me back to what i'd read about your early years of like feeling like you're almost carrying your family too to some degree not just yourself but there's a lot of people relying on you yeah i don't know if that's a immigrant mentality. 100%.

You know, it's because it's almost like family is a big thing for me. Family is huge for us. So it's like when one goes, we're all going. Like that's just how I was raised. So maybe that is something to do with that, you know. Kind of all seeking refuge together is that sense of family so yeah I guess it was for me it was a no-brainer like it was just what I was I had to do it wasn't even like I had a choice in my mind it was like well that's obviously gonna happen for

my parents I'm obviously gonna get that for them I didn't think there was any other thing to do. Broken is a strong word. Yeah. It's a really strong word. Do you mean that, that word, broken? Yeah. Kind of. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken

that is going to put you back together at that point when you're like at your lowest the only way you can get out is if you start climbing i don't i wasn't hearing anything when i was broken when were you broken a couple times i mean there's some things that happen behind the scenes or there's obviously public things that everybody sees of when you get plastered on the covers of magazines and tabloids and things like that and you just feel super violated, you know? But it's something that comes with what you do.

It comes with what I do. So it's like a bittersweet you know I'm I've never been a complacent person I'm not complaining about anything that comes with what I do it's just something that you have to really work on dealing with because it's gonna happen inevitably nobody will ever see the consequences of it though like if you just say the word broken to me I'd think really like there's stuff that's taking you to that place yeah for sure of hundred percent multiple times yeah

but you remain strong at least from external perceptions maybe that's maybe that's an incorrect thing because it's you talked about masking no i do i am strong i am i think the fact that i'm still here means i'm strong i mean i run a business you know i've got people that i employ now you, and I feel like you can always come back. Never X anyone out because in my experience, it's like you can really help people that you don't even know you're helping. So, yeah, I mean, I'm strong because I'm very inspired again and I'm loving the idea of rebirthing and positioning and owning a business and, you know, running a label and being on TV and doing film and doing music. There's never a break. So it's like, we're always on the go,

me and my team, our bags are packed constantly. And so, you know, you have to be strong. If it's not for me, it's for them. Rebirthing. Yeah. Introducing the new Rita Ora. Yes, that's exactly how I feel. It's like a new lease of life. We're on another chapter now.

This is the new chapter of Rita musically. She's married. It's like I'm now a stepmom. You know, there's like so much that's going on in my life now that it wasn't before, you know. It's cool. How did that change you, marriage? It didn't really feel any different, honestly.

Taika and I were friends for so long before we got together. And he likes to say, before we ruined it all. But it didn't feel any different because it was such a sort of natural progression to our already withstanding friendship that it was kind of like best friends getting married. Like that's what it felt like. And we are the same person. we think the same and our lives just really do blend even though they're both crazy so I think what it's done for me it's it's actually made me more excited about achieving things and having new goals that I want to achieve and I think that we really push each other in that direction because home is stable now because home feels super stable which is a great platform to achieve

and I felt like it was a real big achievement for me yeah why because I just didn't think that was ever going to happen to me because I was never in one place I was never I never gave myself the time to all the energy to put into trying to find a soulmate or do that. Because I was always like, you're either coming on my roller coaster or you're getting off because we're not stopping. And it was really difficult to find somebody that could lived a life you know and has this ability to you know be your father and have this creative aspect and that was really impressive to me and I was and I was like wow you know somebody can do it all here's the thing though so if you had met him when you were 24 no hell there you go so it's not really about the person I think it's

about you it was you were at I was ready exactly and this is what my album is also so it's not really about the person i think it's about you it was you were at i was ready exactly and this is what my album is also about it's not about hoping somebody's going to come and fix everything for you because it's not what i stand for that's not what like i preach but it is about you know you being in the right frame of mind and i definitely was when i first met him in a you know in a different light in Australia yeah you're in the right frame of mind when you met him yeah for sure yeah I'm so intrigued by how our early experiences shape our attachment styles romantically yeah for me I was I had no chance of meeting anybody I'm shocked that I have I'm in a relationship now because up until 25 I was

like self-sabotaging any interest. Yeah. What did you come to learn about your attachment styles romantically? Like, what did you come to learn about Rita in a romantic relationship? That it's not just about you. Yeah. And I think I can say that now. It's thinking back, you know, because my job revolves around me and like what I do, I thought it was the same

in relationships, but it's not, you know, you have to sort of, you have to be willing to be a bit selfless sometimes in relationships to be there for the other person. And I don't think I was, I was very much like, you're doing what I'm doing or that's it. And that's probably why they all didn't work out until now. But that was again, the knowledge, like I never really, and I don't know why I thought that because my parents have the most incredible marriage and relationship. Like they support each other so well, but my life was moving so crazy that I just don't think that the other parties, etc. were ready, I guess. That wasn't my priority also, by the way. Yeah, I hear that, that priority point, in fact.

Because for someone who's so scared of losing it, it would make sense that they would deprioritize everything else that was a threat to it. That's exactly where my head was at, 100%. It was like it wasn't a big deal it wasn't a priority the way you described like if you don't keep up with this train you're fucking off it right but that's exactly no you know it's not a good way of thinking but because i had that fear behind me and driving me that was there was nothing that was going to get in the way of that until I got a bit older and I realized that there's other points in life that are important Rita you know like finding your sense of family and joy amongst the craziness and that's like my own obviously I had my parents and my sister but you know I wanted to sort of create my own thing Rita believes

that now she is married the press now report on her in a different way maybe they're having a crisis meeting at the moment why did you say that because now it's less about like oh Rita scene with it's like I feel like now they don't know what to say it's hilarious because I do believe that I think now everybody's understood and seen this sort of transition I think that I don't know what they what goes on in those tabloid offices but I do feel like there's been a shift in the narrative now because they've also exhausted and gone every single route on me that I feel like now they're like all right let's just give it to her she's calmed down a bit did that that ever bother you honestly yeah um on a human level i think this

is important because people don't understand that the things written have a real human consequence further down the line on the individual because we because obviously if you then react to it publicly that's a new story i mean anything you do it's like a story um you know i just i've learned over the years that um less is more and if you would like to connect or kind of explain your side of things you know you do it through art and so with me what i've learned is i do it now with my music and so i tell my story through my songwriting and through videos or things like that and your husband he's an oscar winning director so you've worked on some of the the music videos with him yeah what's that like working with your husband?

Amazing. Really? You know, not me. I'm also a fan of his, you know, so it wasn't just like, I'm working with him, let's just go for it. You know, I understand, you know, being lucky to work with him.

I mean, I know he's my husband, but I don't take it for granted, you know, like he's written some of my favourite films and Jojo Rabbit and things like that you know those are real iconic stylistically important films of our time for me to work with him was fun because I knew he was gonna throw things at me you know like do this and do that and like that's how he works it's just like but there's a beauty to his madness. And I was really honoured to be amongst that thing that night. We did it actually all in a day. And praising you, it felt like a mini movie.

It was awesome. I think there's three records that I listened to upstairs. Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure those are the three that are coming on the album, you and I, the three singles you've released. Yeah, yeah. What did you listen to? All of them.

Oh, great. So all very different. Although they all inspired significantly different feelings for me praising you felt very like i wanted to party it felt like great like i'd listen to that in the gym one of them made me feel a lot more um romantically nostalgic yeah where you're talking about how someone only loves you in a certain situation oh you only love me that's probably that one what i've tried to do with this album is kind of take you on a thought journey so it's like don't think twice is about kind of knowing you like someone and jumping in which is the opening track of my album and not thinking

and just sort of going with it and seeing where it ends up because you don't know you always you know you think i can't do this i'm scared but you just don't know what's on the other side and so then you only Love Me is like that era where you start meeting someone and then you're kind of like, can I tell them I don't want to see other people or is it too soon? Am I going to be crazy if I tell them let's be exclusive? Like when is it the right time? Do you only call me when you've had a couple of drinks

and you've got that confidence boost? Do you actually like me? It's like all those questions you ask yourself in the beginning beginning but really what you want to say is let's be exclusive and i love you but you don't want to look crazy so that's that song and then it goes through a journey of loving someone and appreciating your friends and self-love it's not just about one person it's about you and I so it could be you and me me and the fans you and yourself so there's a song on there called girl in the mirror which is about really accepting all of your faults and all of my faults all the things I don't like about myself and parts of my body you know every everyone goes through those phases and

yeah there's all of those kind of personal insights to this record that i think is different to all the other two albums i've put out and what are you hoping what's your hopes as you go into this you're kind of a much more seasoned than you were when you put out the other albums in terms of your experience of this process the press and then the thing comes out yeah talk what's the what's the goal what are you hoping do you know what I really just hope people feel like they know me that's all I want I want people to feel really close to me and connected to me and just feel like they know what they're getting if they're coming to a Rita show they know they know what they're going to get great dance songs pop bangers we're going to have party. We're also going to get a bit emotional, but I really want people to feel

like they can rely and depend on me, especially in a sense of music of kind of really getting away from their problems and their thoughts. That's all. I just really want to communicate and connect again. And like I said, reintrodu myself and feel like um the girl that they've always known that lives next door to him are you driven or are you dragged I think I'm driven yeah yeah I'd like to say I'm driven a lot of that actually confidence has come from me working out like waking up and going to the gym I would never do that before if especially knowing I have a long day you know now I wake up an hour before that just to work out I think that's drive because it's also like you're you're already exhausted you know you go to sleep

and you wake up and you know you have to do it and after you do it you know you feel good there's never anyone that I've met that has worked out that has left being like, oh, I feel terrible. That's a non-negotiable. Non-negotiables. Like that's, I think that's why I feel like I'm driven. What else is non-negotiable in your routine?

You talked about meditation a little bit, but is there anything else that's your like ritualistic non-negotiables? Finding a good book. Interesting. You're a big reader. I've learned to, I've joined a little secret book club under a false name. And I love it.

And they teach me about books. Right now I'm reading Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow. Have you read that book? No. It's fantastic. It's just so good. It's about these like two friends. It's a description of a friendship

that you think goes into a love love life fest but it doesn't it's all about this specific friendship and it's so interesting and clara and the sun which is another great book about this kid who has an ai robot and it sort of like becomes really human like it's really interesting so yeah that brings me a lot of kind of joy and yeah it's just kind of discovering like I love discovering things I'm always looking for new music new artists films that I haven't seen like I'm really into sort of discovery and that really inspires me to kind of inspires my creativity and i'm already thinking the next album and this one's out july 14th and i'm already thinking about the next one your creativity comes from a lot of places right i can feel that in you people for sure a lot to do with people and like i'm always interested in people's stories i mean like you you know you're so good at asking people the

right things and I kind of really like that I do that in genuine conversations I have at dinners and things like that um because you just never really know what you're going to get out of it you know and so yeah I continue to do that so if you want to come to dinner with me get ready because I'm really busy that day, but I'm joking. July 14th, your album comes out. I'm very, very excited. I'm so excited. I'm so happy we are able to do this. And I'm really, really genuinely looking forward

to what people are going to get from this album. They're going to get a lot from this album because I can tell that this is, it feels like a, the music is incredibly fresh I'd have to say that it's diverse incredibly diverse there's there's sounds I mean I'm not a music expert but just when I play music um I love music so I spend I always beat my friends in terms of music consumption every year on that Spotify thing oh yeah Spotify app thing so but there's so many fresh sounds that I I heard through your music and to hear thanks that five years is

actually I think the distance between albums is also quite useful sometimes because it gives you a chance to have a bit of lived experience and that comes through in your records. You're now a married woman. Yeah. And you're in a new chapter. Yeah. But all my albums have kind of taken that bit of time. I've never really back to back put out albums. But musically, I'd like to say this is my most artistic album for sure we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest and they

don't know who they're leaving it for um the question that's been left for you oh this is quite i think this is quite a good one for you okay people always shit themselves when we get to this point but i don't know why i thought my questions were difficult question for you is what would you most like to be remembered for when you die wow my work ethic and being a nice person those two being like wow she really did that and being really sort of received and everyone's saying she was just such a nice jolly person it brought me to something that i was going to ask her like just that that point which is it appears to me that when i sit here with um the fact that you said work ethic when i sit here with male artists they rarely they very rarely say

that oh yeah yeah that's a whole nother conversation yeah it's a whole nother conversation but it's about the double standards around like maybe it is that you know being a woman too 100% no it's not maybe it definitely is that I think as well especially with everything is from my experience only in the music industry back I imagine it does definitely filter into any sort of aspect, you know, being heard, being spoken, being heard on the table, you know, and also not being forgotten. That's another thing. It's like you don't, you may have done something at some point

and then it could almost be the credits could go somewhere else. And so you have to almost be consistent i think as a woman more than ever to get the credit almost i guess yes and opinionated and it's so much more shocking i would say if if a woman is more opinionated i don't know why but you know i don't think in my world that i ain't going anywhere but i feel really kind of like there's a responsibility for sure especially for the young girls coming up I want them to watch this and feel really kind of like inspired by it I certainly think they will be and from doing the research it was really really illuminating because I saw especially that's why I asked the question about that from the choir to

getting signed I saw someone that was really tenacious and felt like they were being, they had a fire up their ass or something. Because when I read about the time you spent interning and working in the shoe shop and persuading yourself into certain meeting rooms and certain things like that, that's the narrative that I don't think a lot of people would put out there because it's the reality that goes on behind the scenes. It's the boring stuff, but at the very essence of you, it's really why you're sat here now. It's that like, that hustle that came from that refugee immigrant background that caused you to just,

to persevere in situations where most people probably wouldn't have persevered and to keep knocking on doors and to keep saying yes and showing up despite the cost. Surviving. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the sacrifices, you said it yourself.

Thank you. It's an incredible thing. Oh, you know, thank you. And it means a lot. You met so many people. So I really appreciate that. I do really understand the platform that this gives as well for people like myself that can just really tell their story. So thank you so much for letting me share my story thank you for

being here it's an honor to have you and you are um you're exactly where we started this show to tell those stories of really inspiring young people that are doing incredible incredible things so well you just let me know and i'll come back for sure for sure well let's have a chat after the album comes out because i'm super excited for you so um and i'm sure it's going to be received incredibly well because the first three singles that I've heard so far are insane. Thank you. Fingers crossed. Thank you so much. See you soon, Rita. Take care. Thank you.