The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett - Russell Howard: How To Laugh Through Fear, Anxiety & Imposter Syndrome

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

Russell Howard has barely been off our screens for 15 years now. The host of The Russell Howard Hour and Russell Howard’s Good News, his new special on Netflix is ‘Lubricant’ and he has a new documentary about trying to keep comedy alive during the pandemic, ‘Until the Wheels Come Off’. In this episode, Russell opens up to us about what it took to get to where he has. When he was 18, he did a stand-up gig for the first time, and instantly knew it was what he wanted to do for the rest of his life. Russell quit his job and his dad gave him one year to establish himself in comedy, he managed to get signed on to an agency… with three days to go until his year was up. In a touching conversation encompassing everything from why he does comedy and what he sees as the value of it, to his closeness to his family, this is Russell as you’ve never seen him before.  Follow Russell: Twitter - https://twitter.com/russellhoward Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/russellhoward Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo

Quick one. Just wanted to say a big thank you to three people very quickly. First people I want to say thank you to is all of you that listen to the show. Never in my wildest dreams is all I can say. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd start a podcast in my kitchen and that it would expand all over the world as it has done. And we've now opened our first studio in America, thanks to my very helpful team led by Jack on the production side of things. So thank you to Jack and the team for building out the new American studio. And thirdly to to amazon music who when they heard that we were expanding to the united states and i'd be recording a lot more over in the states they put a massive billboard in time square um for the show so thank you so much amazon music um thank you to our team and thank you to all of you

that listen to this show let's continue if they're laughing it's fine if they're not, it's fine. If they're not, it ain't. This is the Russell Howard we have never seen before. When you're low, it leaves you mentally fragile, but then that makes you work hard and go again because you know the excitement you get from making them laugh. It's an unhealthy treadmill, but at the end of that treadmill, there is this incredible cherry. That's what happiness is.

Figure out a healthier way of being the best you without it being so draining To realize what you have there will always be sort of shimmering Lights of hope in in the misery, but sometimes somebody has to help you find them When he died, it was just this sledgehammer to your heart where you just go Jesus one of, one of the good souls isn't here anymore. Russell Howard. I've watched Russell Howard on TV for years and years and years. And of all the podcasts I've done, Russell and this conversation was the most stark difference between the person I've seen on TV and the person I had a conversation with today. I think your mind is going to be blown.

He's got a new Netflix show coming out called Lubricant. And the reason it's called Lubricant is because he believes comedy and laughter is the lubricant that allows us to deal with the pain of life. And we talk about the pain of his life. We talk about everything. And in this conversation, there's more tears. Recently, I did an episode on this podcast with Jimmy Carr. And the resounding feedback we got was we've never seen that Jimmy Carr before. I have a suspicion, in fact, I know that people are going to say the same about this conversation. This is the Russell Howard we have never seen before. And it's an incredibly inspiring, valuable, vulnerable Russell Howard. It's the side, as a Russell Howard fan, that I wish I'd seen more of. I have a feeling you're going to be really surprised. So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett,

and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. I'm funny because of my mum, and I'm determined because of my mum and I'm determined because of my dad. You said that, right? I did say that, yeah. I felt like that was the beginning of a riddle. Like you were sort of a Gollum figure. I was trying to understand, yeah.

Can you explain that to me, please? My mum is a warm, twinkly-eyed little lady who is inadvertently funny all the time, has no idea of her power, is just naturally bright and joyful. If you ever feel that you're kind of getting used to hotels and the humdrum life of, oh, here we are in another place, take my mum with you, separate rooms, and watch her reaction when she goes into a hotel room because it reminds you of how you used to be.

Oh, really? Jesus Christ, they've got kettles. They've got tea bags. Look, they've got a trouser press. Look. Like she's so excited and happy by the world. And my dad is a very quiet, unbelievably determined man who, you know, when we were kids, we'd sort of, he'd have us mix in cement. We'd be sort of like, you know, building kind of walls with him, plastering as a kid. I remember watching my dad plaster and he was trying to keep this kind of wall up

and he screamed to himself, come on, David. And sort of even at 11, I was going, that's a bit much. So I have these kind of two very different dominant personalities that kind of raised me, who I love dearly both, but they are very, different you know my dad challenged me to a press-up competition recently um at a family barbecue and he beat me he did um 68 he did yeah and he's uh 65 years old and uh yeah remember this story this sums my dad up I had a school report when I was 11

and the teacher said what Russell needs to know is that he can't do everything and I kind of go home and you know in that moment you give the report

and your dad looks and he goes what does this mean and you go well the teacher says I can't do everything he goes why do you say that

I just think that I can I think I can do anything if I put my mind to it and my dad goes you've got to go down that school now and tell her that. So I have to walk back to the school.

You're joking. Yeah. And I kind of go in and go, my dad says I can do anything and you're not allowed to say that I can't. Which is a pretty, you know, incredible thing to do. But, you know, it made school tough. So yeah, very different. What about brothers and sisters?

I have a brother, Daniel, who's an amazing human being, very funny. And I have a sister who's an actress, who's also incredible. They're very different as well. I'm very close to my brother, not so much to my sister. We sort of, all my brother, we just played football together as kids. And oddly, Kerry is in the same world as me now and is kind of a BAFTA nominated actress she was in um him and her BBC three and super talented and yeah a great human being they're they're a lovely bunch but very strange my family it's like being

in a pogue song when you go to kind of Christmas parties around our way do you know what I mean do you have yeah it's sort of, you know, those like, I remember weirdly the funeral of my nan and granddad. It was separate. It sounded like it was packed. But that feeling sometimes when you go to a funeral and you're so proud to have the same blood as the people in the room.

I kind of feel that whenever I'm back with my family in the West country, there's such a lunacy and energy to them that I adore and feel so kind of delighted to be part of. You know, it's kind of, yeah. Jimmy Carr said something to me, which I've been waiting to ask another comedian. There's a stereotype that comedians are funny

because they're depressed. Yeah. But Jimmy Carr said that's wrong. He said, you've really got to ask a comedian who in their family is sick. Because he says that much of his comedic genius or his desire to please people came from trying to make a family member happy or trying to ease moments of tension in the family dynamic when he was younger. Do you resonate with that at all? Yeah, yeah, completely. My dad is successful and super serious,

but used to lose his mind watching kind of Billy Connolly or watching Have I Got News For You? So he would like howl with laughter. And we sort of figured out the way to break dad's serious energy was to make him laugh, you know. So definitely it was kind of, there's no tension if people are like, I've got a line in my new special, which is, laughter is the lubricant that makes life livable. And it really soothes tensions,

and it's a bandage that gets over cracks, definitely. And then it's sort of this thing that when you discover you can make people laugh, it's so addictive, and you can literally create your own energy. And like you do in Arena, there's there's 15 000 people there you're orchestrating this almost societal orgasm where they're kind of like lost in laughter together it's you feel like a necromancer man it's the best and i think jim's right in that that initial spark comes from probably i'm thinking of other comedians as well as myself it's sort of that sense of you know like I've got a lazy eye so that was a you know so I became funny to deflect

and did jokes about my eyes to get to stop people looking at them and then you kind of realize you okay this is kind of cool or if you're a bit thick or if you're not good at football or you don't fit in you can kind of sort of rebrand yourself in a strange way through humor and you can you can create your own kind of energy that sounds kind of wanky but you know what i mean of course i do because there's there's also another stereotype which is that people who are slightly um slightly bigger tend to be really bubbly and have funny personalities in the comedians as well, which would fit that kind of idea that it's a tool of deflection

from something else they don't want them to focus on. You talk about it being heavily linked to self-esteem as well. Yeah. What's odd, the further you get into it, you realise that it's so much fun doing stand-up. And it's such a wild drug, effectively, because you're doing these massive gigs for 2,000 people and everyone's laughing or 15,000 people.

You're in New York, you're doing a gig in Finland and you can't quite get over it. And then as a consequence, it's quite hard to sit down and watch the TV and be normal. And so you're kind of chasing that sort of like, see, the only, the only way around it is to sort of integrate it really. But like, I don't know, I've been doing standup since I was 18. I remember doing the first gig and it felt like it was, you sort of discovered a mechanism through which you can do life, that everything sad, good, happy, weird, peculiar can go through this sausage maker and you can then understand life, figure it out. But also that's a very strange way to do it because you're using the stage to kind of

dissect yourself. But the aim is always funny. But I don't know of a better way to do it than to kind of make sense of the world. And the funny thing about all comics is guaranteed, if they find themselves in a strange situation, sometimes a heartbreaking situation in life, there's always a little part of your brain going, it could be a bit in this. And it's that horrible sort of, you know, sort of disease that we have that you can't ever truly be there because there's always a little bit of you, whether you're Seinfeld or, you know, Taylor Tomlinson or Bill Burr or Chappelle or whatever,

your brain is going, yep, there's stuff in this. Do you know what I mean? As you're getting beaten up or whatever, your brain... I remember getting mugged in Brighton when I was 18 and this guy shouted to me come back i'm a police officer he clearly wasn't and i said no you're not you're a monster and as

i said it i went yeah that's gonna be quite funny i reckon but i'm literally running away i'm terrified but my brain's going yeah probably build a little bit about that and it's i think all all comics that i know have that thing where reality is always auditioning to find its way into your set wow i could uh i could get out of hand and you could start willing misfortune this is the weird thing yeah well but well exactly but it's that's the problem yeah well you haven't got any jokes where if he's walking around dressed as a clown going to like a fucking zoo there's got to be something in this but yeah you're right it's but it's sort of about keeping life open a bit and keeping the third eye open really probably that's the same of all creatives where you kind of you or all people really like

you have to notice the thing the things that niggle you and if you're talking about them whether it's you know like in my last special I had a big bit about kind of young women self-harming I couldn't I was like what like one in four women self-harm and I was like I couldn't get my head around that and I just knew I had to talk about it on stage and yesterday I saw this lady complaining because the foam in her cup wasn't at the top of her cup and I for the rest of that morning I couldn't I couldn't get my head around it just how do you get the confidence to complain about your foam not being there and I know somehow that's going to end up in the show somewhere that's the way I kind of operate really I sort of see these little things or and they kind of make a note on my phone and they gradually kind of make their way

you know interesting it's like collecting dots from society and then figuring out later how they fall I think that I know Chris Martin does a similar thing where you just make little notes of lyrics and Woody Allen does similar thing Woody Allen will just write a load of stuff and then he puts it in a draw. And then when he comes to write a film, he just gets the drawer out, empties all these notes that he's been making for the last six months and figures out what the film's going to be. And that's a lot easier than sort of writing from a blank page because you can then finesse your kind of thoughts in the field when you're in the laboratory, as it were.

You said something there which I find really interesting and I think there's kind of almost analogies for life within, which is after you've come off stage to thousands of people in an arena, you then go home and have to like sit in front of the TV. The anti-climax, dealing with like that consistent high then low, it feels like a lot emotionally because that's like a huge adrenaline surge.

And then even like physiologically, it feels like that must be not natural and have a consequence. Yeah, Christ, that's deep and let's hope it doesn't. But yeah, you're right. It's, yeah, every comedian, when they're in the middle of a tour, needs a really, really good box set. Like, do you know what I mean?

It's like you need succession. You need madmen. You need something to get you through. Because yeah, it's sort of, otherwise, like if you're trying to maintain that high, you know, if you're sort of drinking and you're doing drugs or whatnot, it's going to make it harder to be that version it's kind of like whereas if you're a musician you can still sing the song that they want you to sing if you're on

kind of coke or like or you're pissed up it's kind of hard to be a good comic for a long time if you kind of you know on drinking drugs so, you have to sort of develop this kind of way of like reintegrating your life. But also it's nonsense as well. It's just, it's fun make-believe. Like, and also what's important is kind of, you know, going for a meal with your wife and hanging out and seeing friends and there's joy in that, you know.

And you see, you have to try you have to plan fun I think that that's the crucial thing you have to go right we'll go on holiday and we'll go to that restaurant and we'll watch this film because I think like you say it's the sitting and the and the waiting is very difficult to compete with with the innate rush that you get from stand-up. Because of what you do professionally, do you find it harder to enjoy the sitting and the waiting and the meal where you're sat there just, you know, and the holiday where you're sat on the deck chair?

Not like I normally, what I love about holidays, I don't know what your feelings are about them, but by the end of like 10 days, I'm ready to go back to my life because holidays remind me of how much I love my life. And that's the thing. So you need to have that kind of, I'm a real sit in the sun,

you know, read some books, listen to podcasts, whatever, and then kind of go again. But I like the recharge of it. If there was a thing where you could literally plug yourself in like a mobile phone, I would happily do that on a beach. Do you know what I mean? And then kind of go again. the recharge of it. If there was a, if there was a thing where you could literally plug yourself in like a mobile phone, I would happily do that on a beach. Do you know what I mean? And then kind of

go again, but I'm not really a, when I'm in holiday mode, I'm not really a culture vulture. I'm kind of a sit down, plonk, book, sun, relax, get ill because I've been putting it off. Do you know what I mean? Your body just kind of gets a bit sick and then you kind of go again. How about you? Are you a relaxer? I think I'm a forced relaxer. Right. I think my girlfriend is the reason why I would go on holiday. And I think she's also the reason why I would be present on holiday.

And she's the reason why I'd go and look at like a castle or something. Okay. A castle? Like whatever she would want to look at. But I think if it was just up to me, I wouldn't go. And I wouldn't do it. And even if I did go, I wouldn't leave the hotel room. Yes.

There's like strong evidence for that. Because whenever I've gone to speak in a country or whatever, I don't leave the hotel room. I have no desire to do anything but just be on my phone or laptop. So it's pretty sad. But I think, you know, that's why it's fortunate that I have a girlfriend. Yeah, but it's also that thing as well of like you clearly, with the job you do,

you clearly love it as well. I love it, yeah. So that's the thing. If you're fortunate enough, there are so many, there are billions of people who live for the weekend. Do your job, punch in,

job you don't like, get your money, smash your weekend, try and find your fun. If you're one of the, there are so few people in this world that truly have a thing that they do that they get paid for that they adore you just gotta get hold of it man and just like there's no shame but it just seems peculiar to the outside

so you're gonna be how obsessed you you get about your job or i would get about stand-up or there was a documentary about the comedy store um um, on, uh, Sky recently. And I watched it. It's incredible. It was a beautiful kind of summer's day. And I smashed the whole thing. One of the best days I've ever had in my life because it was incredible. And it evoked this kind of the comedy store from the sort of the seventies and the eighties and Jay Leno and all this. And it just, you know, I was like, we need a time machine. we need to go back to to those times at the comedy store but this because i love stand-up and i kind of you know it's you have to be with people that understand your passions because you can't fake it you can't

go let's go to the castle if you're not a go to the castle guy do you know what i mean but you're right you can be you can have help to look at the castle. And then you realize when you get to the castle, that's just a really nice castle. Yeah. I wouldn't have come had you not dragged me. Completely. Yeah, yeah. We're not staying for ages at the castle.

Yeah. It's not an Airbnb. But you start writing. So on that point of finding your passion and pursuing it, you started writing jokes at 14? Yeah. Wow, you've done your research. Yeah.

Yeah, I had an old computer. And yeah, I kind of, I watched a Lee Evans video with my mate, my mate Craig. And it blew my mind because when I was a kid, stand-up really wasn't on TV that you'd have like a Billy Connolly tape. You'd have like, have I got news for you as a big show or bottom or uh um shooting stars it was that kind of era but stand-up wasn't really a thing um and he was the first sort of person that i'd seen who kind of was just funny wasn't an alpha and i was like wow he like it was mind-blowing i think i could be that's sort of a bit like how i'm funny like you know what i mean? And me and Craig just wore that tape out. We just watched it over and over and over.

And I didn't tell anyone about it. I just started writing these little kind of jokes and routines and ideas that none of which were any good, but it just became like my little, it was like my little fun place to go to every so often goes, I'm going to write some of my jokes. Did you perform them to anybody at that age? My first ever gig was in Bristol, a place called Virgin Mirth. And I took all these jokes that I've been writing since I was 14 and I whittled it down to my best 20. And

I did it there at Virgin Mirth. I followed a guy who was eating a banana with a spoon, singing the theme tune to The Sweeney. And another bloke that was sort of like, his act was to punch himself in the face. So in a sense, it didn't really matter how bad my 14-year-old stuff was. But yeah, so that was it. And then I kind of, some of it stuck, some of it didn't.

But it was all like, I had this bit about like, how did Captain Kirk get through the entire, I wrote this when I was 14. But how did Captain Kirk get through all the Star Trek episodes without once flicking Spock's ears? So that was one of my first,

and I sort of think it's all right. It's not bad. It's not bad. But that was the first joke I ever kind of told. And one of the things I found quite peculiar in your story is that your dad really pushed you to give comedy a go. And that seems, of all the guests I sit here with, the thing that has

typically made them famous or well-known or successful, their parents were usually quite against it and would much rather have them got a quote unquote real job. Yes. So what were you doing at the time? And yeah, why was your dad supportive of it when, you know, at a time when that's probably not considered a highly profitable, high chance of success career? Yeah, I was working at the RAC in Bristol. I had a part-time job. And I was also doing standup. And I, cause I started standup at university and then finished my degree, went home and was just kind of doing probably three gigs a week for, you know, 50 quid a pop or like sometimes a hundred quid a pop, that kind of thing. And alongside this kind of like shift at the RAC and it was I was kind of like I'd have a gig in Lincoln and then I'd have to drive back to get to work and it was it was kind of like

knackering and my dad basically I remember weirdly not to name drop but I was talking to Matthew McConaughey about this and it's a very similar thing where his dad, when he told his dad he wasn't going to become a lawyer, he was going to become a comedian, an actor. His dad said, don't half-arse it. And that was a similar reaction to my dad. My dad basically was like, right, if you want to do this, you're 21, go for it. Give yourself a year. Don't stop. Put everything into it. And then if it's not happening in a year you stop you get a proper job and I kind of I I really respected that option that he gave me do you know what I mean it was like I'll be fine it was like don't fuck around properly go for it

don't do three gigs a week do five gigs a week Just do that and then see where you are in a year. And I was at the Edinburgh Festival. I had about like eight days left from this kind of like contract. And my now agent saw me at the Edinburgh Festival have like a really good gig. And he kind of said, oh, does it always go that well? And I was like, all the time, you mad? Yeah. But it was, I was doing lots of sort of improvising and stuff like that. It was quite hit and miss back then. And then we went for a meal. He gave me, they used

to have a thing called the comedy network where it was like 30 gigs around universities. And that day he booked me into these 30 gigs that were at the time, I still remember the money. It's 150 pounds per gig spreading out into November. And, but to work for a comedy company called Avalon, it's one of the biggest kind of comedy producers in the UK. And then he signed me and so it worked. And then I kind of moved to London and kind of, you know, slowly kind of kept on keeping on.

I really, I liked the deadline that my dad gave me. Do you know what I mean? Because it was kind of, and I really respected it. And he had this amazing quote on his office that said something like, I think it's by T.E.S. Eliot or T.E. Eliot that said,

those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their mind, wake in the day to find that all is vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous for they act upon their visions with open eyes and make them happen. And that is at the core of my dad. So he's kind of quite disciplined, but he also has a fuck it, go for it. But yeah, I just went for it. But also because a fuck it go for it but yeah I just went for it but also because I loved it and I didn't love working at the RSC and I didn't I'd finished my degree and I knew

what I wanted to do and I just I just worked my bollocks off man I did every gig you can imagine but loved it and my brother used to come to them we traveled down to Brighton to do 10 minutes and uh you know we'd have to sort of bunny hop the car to Reading Station because we didn't fill up. And, you know, it was real kind of fly by the seat of your pants stuff, but just the best. It was the best. It was like, it's the best night out.

You go to Plymouth and, you know, it's a six hour round journey, but you do 20 minutes and it goes great and then the promoter says oh we'll get you back and you're like brilliant I go back to Plymouth you know and um yeah it's sort of all worked out something so interesting when I speak to successful comedians because it's one of the like purest forms of like insanely I I say insanely, but like if you were trying to reach a lucrative outcome, one of the like insane paths, one of the most insane pure followings of one's passion because it seems to be the case that you follow this passion

which doesn't promise to ever pay you that well or promises no chance of success. And you follow it for years, being paid 50 quid, 100 quid. And then, I mean, I speak to the ones that were successful, right? But when you look back on that period of your life, and if I was to say, what are the key things? You've identified hard work as one of them. But what are the key things that made you get here

when so many won't get here? Hard work, luck, natural talent, perspiration. But mostly, and I would say luck is a big thing, luck and hard work are the big ones and taking your opportunity and having little kind of moments and always listening to the crowd as well because it's sort of that thing

where certainly as a live comedian, you can't bullshit people. Like there is, you get a tangible answer every time. The laughter is yes, the silence is no. You just can't fuck with that. Like that's, that is the, there is a truth to the, to the gig. If they're laughing, it's fine. If they're not, it ain't. And that's the big thing, really. It's just kind of, you know, all great comedians listen to the audience because they're all that matters and you can be critically lauded you can be um you can win awards you know but ultimately if if you don't hear laughter

you won't be here and it's and you have to have new stuff that's the big thing you have to you have to make them laugh and constantly constantly renew yourself that's the thing um to kind of to stick around you make the audience laugh they all burst out laughing they clap they say oh you're amazing after the gig they say we're going to rebook you you're the best person ever does that impact your self-esteem in a positive way yeah of course yeah imagine that but yeah it's yeah it's the best man it's just but that feeling when you do the Brighton Comedia and you're 20 and you do 10 minutes and it goes really well. And Stephen Grant, who is still the booker

at the Brighton Comedia, says, oh, we'll get you back for a 20. That journey home, that's the best. Or someone says, oh, you're going to do the, we're going to get you back to host the Lincoln student night. And you're like, yeah, do you want to do it monthly? Yes.

And you build up this like little following in Lincoln because it's, of course, your self-esteem is just up there because you feel like you're a youth team footballer that's breaking into the first team. That's how it must feel like. You feel like you're kind of Phil Foden and you get these little opportunities. It's probably a similar thing with footballers. Like what makes Phil Foden? Probably that he has natural talent. He works his ass off. And when

there's opportunities, he's kind of clinical enough to take advantage of them. Do you know what I mean? And learn from mistakes. And comedy is constantly about learning from mistakes because you go, you do new material, it doesn't work you you tweak it you tweak it you tweak it until you get something that that that kind of makes them laugh we would one would then assume that comedians have like just tremendously high self-esteem if they're laughing yeah but then what the interesting as well is how quickly it crumbles down if it goes badly. And I've got a friend of mine, Al Pitcher,

who's a comic in Sweden, and we talk about this a lot, where when you're low, irrespective of what you've done before, you just feel like such deep, deep shame that you've been unable to kind of make them laugh. But then that makes you work hard and go again because you know the excitement you get from making them laugh. So it's this, it's an unhealthy treadmill, but at the end of that treadmill, there is this incredible cherry. Deep, deep shame.

Just because it's embarrassing. It's like you've, you've tried to make, like even this, I'm really enjoying this.'s really fun but it's very serious we've got like a little mini audience over there i can hear and every little laugh my brain's going that's good and when they're not i'm like yeah totally just because you sort of feel like you know it's sort of that weird thing for me laughter is truth and victory and silence is failure but then the interesting thing about that is when you watch a performance, you actually realize that of another comic,

you go, wow, there's real power in the silence actually, which took me a long time to realize because I was very initially, just keep it up, keep it up, keep it up. And then you kind of, you know, you watch someone like Chappelle, for example, and you go, he's a real master of the silence. And you don't lose him.

Do you know what I mean? And you're not away, you're captivated. But it takes a really long time to feel that you've earned the right to captivate an audience. But there's captivation in silence. But who fucking thinks they're captivating that's the hardest thing i find is to kind of you can never know whether you've been captivating or dull because the sound is the same do you know what i mean it's sort of that weird thing of like i mean i don't come off stage going was that captivating or dull yeah um but hopefully yeah

it's really interesting so when you have conversations like this because there is no like there's not huge amounts of laughter because it's a serious conversation

I love chats like this this is the best man but yeah go on that's what I was basically asking was when we have comedians come here we've had Russell Kane

we've had obviously Jimmy Carr they do make a lot of jokes. Even before we're filming, I think, you know, Jack will like put the microphone close to Jimmy Carr's mouth. And I think he said something like, just keep it like a fist away. And he said, that's what your mother said.

And it's almost like a Tourette's of humor. And I wonder how you kind of get through life like that. And it almost feels like uncontrollable. Yeah, honestly, that is the best description of it. Like there's a joke that I think sums up comedians' brains the best by a brilliant comedian called Mitch Hedberg. He's no longer with us.

One of the greatest comedians of all time. And this joke sums up the brain that comedians have. And I'll do his impression. If there's fans of Mitch out there, forgive me for this, but it works better if you try and do it as him. He kind of goes, I mumble, man. I mumble a lot off stage. I'm a mumbler.

So I'll be with my friend and I'll say something and he'll be like, what? And I'll say it again a little bit louder and he'll be like, what? And I'll say it again a little bit louder and he'll be like, I didn't hear you. And then the third time I'll say it and he still can't hear me. So I'll say it to him. But now I'm yelling at him, that tree is far away.

And that's what it is. It's this thing in his head that's going on, the tree's far away. And it's a joke about the mania like what were you about i was just saying that trees over there that it's not it's further away than and it's that thing the amount of times i've been with my my wife and you sort of say something and she's like what the fuck you're about just i saw this bin in primrose hill the other day that genuinely said protect um our birds so this was the line on the

bin protect our birds there's a picture of like a a bird and respect their way of life and i just went into this thing of like i don't know you show respect to a fucking but like in my head i'm just kind of like i didn't know there were disgruntled chaff inches all over primrose hill i've never seen that on the news of just kind of go today a bird was the victim of, you know, of somebody attacking him. And my brain was just like whirring around with this. And she can see I'm kind of full zombie eyes, just gone. She's like, what are you on about?

I go, I don't know, I've fucking been. And it's sort of that. That's kind of the way that comics brains are, I think. You spend a lot of time playing around in your head and then you kind of go, oh, that might be something. You know, like the other day, I was talking to a friend about sperm donors and somebody had had, there was this website

and on that you could sort of get, you could get your batch. One of them was like, you know, he was like six foot four, Swedish, keen reader. And you're really good job. And you're like,

yeah, that's exactly what I'd say if I was trying to flog Spunk. Do you know what I mean? You're not going to kind of go, bit of a loner, comes in every Wednesday. We've had to stop it. But, but my point being we were having a chat about sperm donating and my brain was sort of off in this

sort of fantasy land where's the bit kind of like what i just found it so funny that i don't know any true six foot four high achieving intellectuals that kind of just going to nip out to a spath into a pot yeah you know what i mean it doesn't exist but everyone's tinder tinder by totally but but the point is you spend a lot of time in that kind of fun zone um and that i think that's the brain that a lot of comics have speaking of that brain spiraling after you've done a gig or you know can you remember a time where you you like go on google you go on the daily mail or, you know, can you remember a time where you like go on Google, you go on the Daily Mail or something, Twitter and you look at articles

of what people are saying of you and it has a really profound like negative impact on what you think about yourself and you start to question yourself? I don't do it. Like I came up in the days of MySpace and whatnot and that was, I've never been on Twitter. I've never been on Facebook.

I do a bit of Instagram. It's the same with reviews. It's a very funny thing. You get a five-star review and your brain's like, exactly, yep, correct. You get a shitty review and you're like, what the fuck? And you realize that you have to pay no heed to it. I mean, it's flattering and it's great

and it's lovely to get nice reviews and anyone who says otherwise is bullshitting. But it's with social media, you can't, it's too much to kind of seek validation from people, particularly in the world that we live in at the minute, where you're having to check to see if you've been correct. You're not going to be right for everybody. And some people will not like a joke that we live in at the minute where you're having to check to see if you've been correct for you're not going to be right for everybody and some people will not like a joke or some people suit

that you know you just have to try and stay where you stay where you are so i've definitely had times like that when i was younger and it just crushes you and you realize actually all i'm doing is paying attention to the really negative things that people say. And there'll be like, you know, one out of 50 that's super horrible, rather than focusing on the kind things. And you realize, actually, my brain focuses on the negative and go, yeah, they're right. Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am that. Yeah, correct, correct, correct. It just doesn't make me a better, more functional human being. It just, it hurts. So I don't do it.

Do you know what I mean? So I just kind of... But people must have said to you, your agents, your managers said, oh, get on Twitter, that'll help. Yeah, well, what I do and what I love about social media is I like making things and then putting it on there. And so putting clips of stand-up or the TV show or whatever. But I don't, I'm lucky. I have, if I want to do comedy,

I can go to a comedy club and it's a dark room and I can howl or I can scream or I can be silly. I can do whatever I want. It's in a comedy club. Social media is the worst comedy club in the world because people aren't there to laugh. Do you know what I mean? Everyone there is there to laugh.

And there's this sort of lovely bonding experience. We're here for a reason. Whereas social media, some people, most people in the world are just up for a hoot. But some people are looking to be angry or they're looking to be enraged. So it just seems naive to put humor into such a volatile club.

Can you imagine if it was a club called Twitter, right? Hey, do you want to come play Twitter? Can you imagine how hard that comedy club would be? Do you know what I mean? And so I just don't, I don't bother with it, but I like making things that are finished and then putting them out. But I kind of literally emailed them to my agent and say, oh, we should put this bit from the show on.

I don't even know. I haven this bit from the show on i don't even know i haven't got my logins i don't know really yeah just because to live yeah but but and also maybe it's because i'm 41 and i kind of came up in an era where stand-up was still playing clubs if you're if you're a young guy now um it must be completely different and there's loads of kind of great comics that have kind of come up through social media or through podcasts. And I love that because there's, particularly podcasts, I think,

with like young comics, there's a real air of punk about it where you kind of go in, I'm not going to wait for TV to give me anything. I'm going to make my own thing. And then people gravitate to that. And that's your thing. And you can't mess with that. Whereas I love that. I love the

fact that people aren't going to be waiting for TV to anoint them. But I was very lucky that I was just doing live gigs. And then when I was 26, after having done stand-up since I was 18, somebody said, do you want to go on TV? And I kind of went the traditional path as it were and kind of social media grew alongside it but I was never and I never needed it which is not to say I couldn't have been bigger if I cultivated it but the content I like making exists in the club and it's finished when I do a Netflix special or it's finished when I do a TV show it's it's in a state of flux when I'm in a comedy club. It's in a constant state of becoming. And the problem with social media, it makes everything finite and tangible. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes jokes evolve or routines evolve. If you put it out there, it might be rubbish or it might be ill-conceived.

It might upset people. But by the end of it, having worked in it in a comedy club, it might say exactly what you want it to say. It's a really sort of holy space, the comedy club versus Twitter. As a comedian, do you ever feel a sense of imposter syndrome?

Yeah, I think I don't sense of imposter syndrome? Yeah. I think I don't know any great comic that doesn't. I'm talking to Billy Connolly. Billy Connolly used to get nervous. Billy Connolly was worried that the audience wouldn't love him, that he wasn't worth their evening. Billy Connolly.

If Billy Connolly is thinking that, then, you know, you know, all of us are. And it's, I think if you get to that stage where you're like, this is going to be great. I know it's going to be great. It probably won't. You have to have a healthy degree of, of, of imposter syndrome in order to be the best version of yourself, because you have to kind of, you know, you have to burst into that party and be the best version of yourself. Because you have to kind of, you know, you have to burst into that party and be the best, funniest you, because that's what's on the ticket. That's the thing.

And the only way to do that is kind of hard work, you know. But to just rock up, for example, to an arena tour, having done no kind of warm-ups, it'll be fine. It fucking won't. Arrogance destroys stand-up. You kind of have to go to small clubs before you start doing a tour to kind of know you're okay to get rid of that. And without imposter syndrome, you don't grow as an artist.

Do you know what I mean? But it can be tough to deal with psychologically, right? Because it sounds like it must be similar to deal with psychologically right because it is it sounds like it must be similar to living with a sense of like self-scrutiny which can be quite unhealthy i don't know yeah yeah well i guess the the key thing is to you've got to i think you have to leave on, on your own terms. Do you know what I mean? As in stop,

there's a, there's a while where this won't be healthy forever because it's a, it is a strange way to live with that. Do you feel that? You feel like it won't be? Yeah. Yeah. Just because you just kind of go,

there would just come a time where you're, you're just, you're not as sharp as you once were. And you're like, ah, fine. I'll just go work in local radio. But like, like not, that's not a dig at anyone in local radio.

You do important stuff. Keep those weather checks coming. But doing kind of arenas for a long time is, you know, I've been doing them since like 2012 now. And that is a crazy level of pressure because you sort of do, we do, I do them in like a month long block block in the uk and it's kind of right okay yeah you know and then you get through it and then you're like okay go again go again and that isn't necessarily the healthiest way to be forever does it have mental health implications on you because like if you're living with that kind of

internal fluctuation all the time and that anticipation that those feelings of self-doubt that you know they say that anxiety in particular is like concern about the future if you're constantly thinking about the future that moment in that arena is do you feel anxious at all well the funny thing is the only time you don't feel anxious is when you're doing stand-up. But weirdly, that's the respite. But leading up to it, it's nerve-wracking. But as soon as you step on the stage, you know exactly what you're going to do.

And it's fun. It's the most fun in the world. But the leading up to it and the afterwards, was that right was that fine it was good right fine you know I think you sort of just make your peace with it and you like you say it's it's meant it leaves you mentally fragile but I don't know of another way of doing it have you suffered with anxiety though oh yeah massively I like it sort of but I think it's sort of that thing like right i have these gigs but

don't do this work i'm gonna look like a fool people gonna boo me there's gonna be anger blah blah blah so you go so that fear drives you to write and perform and get a show that's good enough right and i've not found anything that was a useful motivator but like you say it's a tough way of of being like johnny wilon, I remember seeing this about him. Johnny Wilkinson kicked the winning, I don't know rugby, but the winning- World Cup kick. World Cup kick, yeah, right.

And as the ball sort of soared over, apparently he said to himself, his brain went, you nearly missed that. As it went over, like, and he's won the World Cup. And the next day he was training and he was kicking goals again to ensure that he didn't make that mistake. And unfortunately for him, that's what makes him magnificent. You know what I mean? And I think it's sort of that thing where you go, the older you get, you can try and adapt it and try and figure out, and you know, I mean? And I think it's sort of that thing where you go, the older you get,

you can try and adapt it and try and figure out, and you know, and we're all in a constant state of becoming, as regards to our sort of mental health and trying to figure out a healthier way of being the best you without it being so draining.

But he scored the winning goal, the World Cup cup you know and it's sort of it's kind of shitty but he but but that determination is what sort of made him and it's kind of i guess the thing is it's about kind of ensuring that you have enough kindness to yourself around that so that you kind of give yourself a break from time to time. And that the overall picture is happy. Yeah. But, but, but I don't know of a better motivator than fear to make good stuff. Like if it, if it exists, I mean, do, what do you, can you recognize that? Do you have, what, what is there another thing that you have? I guess excitement. If you could turn fear

into excitement, that would be a healthier way of doing it yeah but i just don't find it as oh yeah it's so much fun because we'll go there and it's gonna be great but then you wouldn't do the prep right as you say if i was excited i wouldn't i'd probably neglect well that would be the thing so that so you'd have like six months of joy yeah and then you do the thing, it'd be fucking awful. And then, whereas at least this way, you have six months of tension

and then you have joy and then the kind of joy lasts throughout the tour. And then after the tour. And then after the tour, you go back to fear to get there. But I don't know, like it's, but I don't have the answers

and I don't know what works for other people. But for me, it is that. And it's something that I'm trying to address. Which part? Living in fear too much. Living in fear too much or putting too much responsibility on the thing. But I don't know of another way.

And I'm sort of seeing people and trying to figure it out. But I don't know what motivates you, for example. It's, I completely get it. It's a trade-off, right? If you want to achieve the goal, you need this unfortunate. I always think this. I think, I think everything has a cost.

Yeah. And everything good in my life that I love comes with a cost. It might be, it could even be a financial cost or it could be some other type of sacrifice. And those that have risen the highest in certain professions, it's so that have risen the highest in certain professions it's so obvious to see the cost in their lives it's much more obvious than everyone

else so i sit here with my guests i sit with eddie hearn he's built the number one boxing promotion company but he never ever sees his wife and kids yeah and he's like in it's like unsatisfiable as a human yeah you know that's why his book is called relentless and i get what that's the clear quote-unquote cost potentially yeah um and yeah with what you're saying being in an arena performer one would think that you spend a lot of time in a certain mental place which is uh not always great yeah but then i was just thinking then, I was thinking about the fascinating thing about life is you have these, so for example, we did 10 nights at the Albert Hall, which is like a world record. It's mental. It was extraordinary that kind of little me that used to sit in the back

of mom and dad's Ford Fiesta, watching the raindrops go down the window. I did 10 nights at the Albert Hall. It was mental. the Alba Hall. It was mental. And it was fun. It was brilliant. It was great. But it was like, you're playing snooker, you know, get all the reds, then knock the rest of them down, done. You know what I mean? But it's that lovely kind of controlled snooker brain. Joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, end of the show. Hooray. Yeah. Go again. Right. But it was, was but it was fun that exists from a sort of dopamine level on a very similar level as being on my stag do with my cousins in vegas and hearing my cousin lewis tell a story and so i think it's my way of figuring it out is to have as many of those dopamine hits of joy, whether it's good food,

good company, travel, books, music, whatever. So you're kind of constantly feeding yourself. Like, because if you just, that's the big realization I've had that if you only try and get happiness from work, for me, it doesn't work. To sit around and hope that your life outside of work can compete with this joy that you get from work. The only way you can do it is to surround yourself with people that you think are fantastic or experiences that you think are fantastic.

And it can even be little things. It's just like, you know, like we did some gigs in Dubai and we went to a water park every day and I'm 41. And I went with my friends who are all big lads. And we were on this rubber dinghy and we kept going down this slide. We honestly, it was the joy, the silliness of the day

led into the fun of the gig. And I remember reading a thing about Chappelle that Chappelle that Chappelle, when he's on tour, he brings his pals, he brings friends along so that he's sort of living, the joy of life is connected with the joy of work. He's never sort of sat backstage with his notepad

kind of waiting for an hour and a half to go on. And if that's something I'm trying to do, I'm trying to kind of involve people more in kind of of work and be less kind of you need to stay away i need to concentrate you know to blend the two and you kind of totally yeah and you talk about this as in the same way with you a couple of moments ago you talked about living for the week and then kind of like compartmentalizing that and then having your life on the weekend and how that doesn't feel like the best way to live either because you have five days of misery and then two days of like pissed, you know, getting fine.

But I think also the pandemic has recalibrated a lot of people that you actually go, we were kind of locked away from each other and we were locked away from experience and the happiness of something appearing from nowhere. Those magical nights down the pub or watching football or listening to music or having a barbecue with friends

where a moment unintentionally becomes a memory. And we were kind of robbed of those social moments that created memories because we were sat with this disease lurking, not knowing where our lives were going to become. We kind of felt like we were sort of immune from something, this heavy happening to us. And it didn't, it happened to everybody.

And it feels like because of that, we are now kind of coming out of the cave, as it were, with a real desire to find as much majesty in the universe as possible. But I genuinely feel a lot of people, like audiences post-pandemic, like even British audiences, who are, you know, by a stretch, the toughest crowds in the world, like by a stretch. It's that lovely English comedy, can't make me laugh.

You know what I mean? Whereas like in America, they're already up. You do comedy clubs in America, they stand up as you walk in. You know what I mean? And, but British crowds now, because people want connection

and they want experience because it was kind of robbed of us. So it feels like it could be a really glorious time. And like you were saying with the tour that you've got planned, what a fantastic way of doing that. Rather than just, you could just do a Q&A, but you're making what sounds like a really pulsating live theatre show. It's going to blow people's minds. And that's what I want to do. That's what audiences want. There's a friend of mine called Alex Edelman who said,

I like stuff that's ambitious and finished. And that's kind of where I want to go. And I feel like that's where audiences want to be. They want to see something that's to rock them you know and and blow them away what a target to aim for to a thing that's going to be I'm going to try and make a thing that's the best night out that anyone's ever had one of the things you said was um just a couple of moments ago was that you've seen someone to help you with uh that kind of fear living in fear state that we described. What do you mean by you've seen someone? Oh, just a bit of therapy to try and have like sort of little coping mechanisms. You

know, you sort of just get, you get far enough into it where you go, maybe just have a bit of help now to recognize kind of moments of mania and how to kind of manage them a bit of help now um to recognize kind of moments of mania and how to kind of manage them a bit better so nothing super exciting it's not a shaman or um you know it's not any kind of ayahuasca or mushrooms it's just a bloke in a in an office so what was your intention when you went to bloke in the office um just to kind of make it a bit easier so that you weren't loading it too much so you can still like you know work if efficiently without it becoming debilitating because i think that's the thing probably a lot of people suffer from that by using fear as a motivator, sometimes you're probably losing 20% of your potential through kind of panic.

So yeah, it was sort of, God, I sound like a fucking robot when I said that, but do you know what I mean? It was sort of that thing of like, just trying to figure out, okay, is there another way of doing this? Was there? Yeah.

But even recognizing when you're um just a bit full-on and just kind of go all right just calm down but i'm a real sucker for like little quotes man or i was weirdly i'm interviewing will smith on thursday oh which is mad for 10 minutes i've got a 10 minute interview with i'm so jealous they they emailed me and said oh because we have the same publisher like will smith's coming to town I was like can I get on the podcast he's got no time

I'd have loved 10 minutes well but this is it well I'll sneak you along man that's it we can double up but I was listening to the beginning of his book

and it's a brilliant story about his dad made him and his brother build a wall and

it's just this is a very simple analogy you've probably read And it's just, this is very, very simple analogy. You've probably read it. It's just brick by brick. And that's particularly when you're making a TV show and you're writing topical jokes. Sometimes, well, sometimes it's really hard to make stories interesting and to write jokes about things that are going on.

And in that instance this week, that really helped me brick by brick. And I'm able to kind of go, okay, yeah, cool. I can get stuff from that. You know, I'm very much a, from a philosophical point of view or a therapy point of view,

I need pointers and tips to make me better. I'm not a enjoy every sandwich kind of a guy because it's a fucking sandwich. Like, you know what I mean? Like being the sandwich, because it's a fucking sandwich like i you know i mean like being the sandwich just it's like it's just a fucking sandwich like i i need i'm very much kind of eastern philosophy of like okay how do we how do we make ourselves better i love the idea of kind of sort of self-improvement and being the best you um so i find quotes help that you know and even talking to somebody like that i am like a bit of an expert you he'll say something or you'll say something and you kind of unravel a

thing and even like what we're doing now sort of having a chat about the process and i have a my friend uh james bay uh the singer singer, we particularly during COVID, we spoke a lot about everything and about creativity and talking to like-minded individuals about the pursuit of a joke or a song or any kind of piece of art. I find really, really interesting. I love it. I'm so interested in the way that musicians create. I'm so envious because they sit in a cool room or they go to like the studio and they kind of write and they jam and they riff and they create a thing

and then they perform it. Whereas the musicians I know are very envious of the way the comedians create, which is you go in front of a crowd and you create with, not for, you know, it would be like the comparison, like Chris Martin going in front of a crowd and Chiswick and going, it was all blue. Nope. Okay. Uh, it was all green. Nope. It was all yellow, yellow, right. I'll do yellow tomorrow. And it sort of is that kind of process. So talking to different creatives or anyone who is sort of an expert in managing

yourself is something that I find really comforting or, you know, like even I've really gone to this guy, Andrew Huberman at the minute, he's like a professor from Stanford and there's all these kind of neuro-linguistic things you can do to help yourself, you know, like cold showers and all this and Wim Hof breathing and all this kind of stuff. Does that stuff work for you? Maybe it's psychosomatic, but yeah, it feels like it does.

Do you know what I mean? You feel like you've done your, it's like going to the gym. It just feels like medicine for you, doesn't it? You always feel like no one enjoys going to the gym. You know, I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger did. But most people are just like, right, do it. And it feels like a nice little tick for your soul.

And it just feels like therapy is almost, well, it's exactly that, isn't it? It's a workout for your brain. Or having a conversation like this is a really nice workout for your brain where we're both in kind of like a strange dream like states where we're kind of having a deep conversation um we're kind of riffing but somehow without planning any of this we're getting to a deeper place and yet it's very strange because

there's people driving listening to us right now which is very weird it's weird isn't it and well that's the fascinating thing in the future as well in the future man yeah and but listening to us right now which is very weird it's weird isn't it it's so weird and well that's the fascinating thing about podcasts in the future as well in the future man and but you're in the now aren't you

Derek left there but it's sort of that fascinating thing that you let people travel to work with you it's the coolest

yeah yeah it feels like a huge especially because it comes out on Monday as well yeah which is a particularly like interesting day to be in their ear at 6am.m yeah but it's so funny is it what the podcast you

listen to what your what your go-to if you do you listen to lock me up if you found out like i listen to like serial killer podcasts do you yeah like theranos the trial of elizabeth holmes like crime and serial killers tends to be my like go-to yeah and you know what it's actually i probably know why now, because I'm so fascinated. This is the reason why I do this podcast. I'm so fascinated by people and their psychology. And for me, criminals and serial killers

are the most extreme and fascinating amongst us. So I would love to have a podcast where I could interview serial killers and be like, why did you do that? Do you know? Yeah. It's basically what I'm doing now. It's a slightly different fascination.

Yeah. It's just, I get so fascinated by them and i'm watching these serial killer documentaries trying to understand the pattern in what made them like from their childhood and their dads at this and then kill on the playground punched them and then they just started killing people yeah so yeah what about you sort of more fantasy football stuff really. I don't know. No, I kind of, yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, it's because a friend of mine does one.

Yeah, I listen to Tim Ferriss and Andrew Huberman. Those are my go-tos. Mark Maron, I really like. Yeah, yeah. He has some really great

interviews. Yeah, I love, there's a brilliant interview with marin and seinfeld which is one of my favorites like i really got into jerry seinfeld during the uh during the lockdown which is kind of so late do you mean i just feel like i've gone hey radiohead are good um but um but yeah i kind of yeah that's my thing i like i like hearing people that i don't know and having my mind blown that's what i like like about podcasts. I'm not into serial killers. I find it too, do you know what I mean? Too icky for me. And you call yourself murderinos, don't you?

Is that what? Probably that's the name. If you're a big fan, you're a murderino. Oh really? Wow. I fit in. One of the things you were touching on there about these kind of practical hacks and quotes and stuff that allow you to kind of get to a better place reminded me of something that I read about you regarding your pre-performance routine and superstitions Before you're going up on stage and there's 15,000 people out there

and they've all got their arms folded and they're demanding you to make them laugh What are you doing backstage to get yourself in this state you need to to perform at your optimal so if it's arenas we get football we just have a kick around um really yeah yeah so we just sort of do keep you ups and you've got to do 10 before you go on stage between oh okay so me kumar and pete um and then steve and we'll try we've got to do 10 keep you ups before we go on stage you can't really do that if you're doing a small club there's a brilliant comedy club called Top Secret in in

London and it's very very small and before that I'm literally in an alley that stinks of piss looking at notes so so it's it's always looking at notes, thinking what you're going to do, sort of trying to be calm to listen to that inner voice that says, hey, you could also do this. And that kind of weird, kind of funny that just appears from nowhere. That's always the best way of starting a gig. And that's it really. But there isn't really a psyching up process. I like watch, if I'm doing a big show, I'll watch my friend who's supporting me. Sneak in the back of the theater or the arena and get a feel for them and then just go for it.

Why keep you ups? Is that just a tradition or is it like a- No, it's just, it's sort of if you're, yeah, maybe it's just that weird thing of like, right, I've done 10, I can like you know it's just it's sort of if you're this yeah there's maybe it's just that weird thing of like right i've done 10 i can you know and then if you don't do 10 the first time and it falls you got to do 20 and if it falls 30 so do you know what i mean so you you have to do it and then it becomes this weird uh like little thing you just don't want that in the back of your head you can't do a big gig going shit man I only did 24 kp ups so it's superstition yeah like yeah and I just and I kind of like I spend

a lot of time with my tour manager Kumar the mighty Kumar Kamalagaran um and um just chatting about stuff and just being kind of loose and sort of yeah just sort of getting in the zone of being silly and just talking about any old bollocks to try and sort of get things going or you know it's like if my brother comes on tour with me that's always fun because it's kind of there'll just be a bit of a bit of nothing kind of happening and like yeah so I like sort of just hanging out and chatting talking bollocks and um sort of loosening yourself up really that's kind of what I do beforehand this is a very um I don't know why this question came into my head but it tends to be the kind of things I ask on this podcast what was the lowest moment of your life what was the lowest moment of my life I think when my

when my granddad died that was like I was it was yeah it was awful and I was incredibly lucky because

I how was I I think I was 36 when granddad died and he I'd never had anyone in my family my cousin Shane had died when I was 18 and And I'd never had anyone in my family.

My cousin Shane had died when I was 18, but I'd never been to a funeral. So it was Shane and granddad. So there'd been this huge gap where nobody died. And this sort of beautiful family that I belonged to, they were all kind of there. And my granddad was sort of like unbelievably special kind of man. He was four foot nine and just funny and warm and just like a quintessential granddad. But he got me into football. So I used to watch football with granddad and watch match of the day

and he'd make me and Daniel toast you know that thick white bread and he'd kind of like make us some granddad toast and he's just a brilliant brilliant soul that just was such a big part of my life that he and they used to come and see us quite a lot whenever he was there i don't know he was you were just bathed in his love like him and him and my nan just

adored me and i adored them and it was they used to have a poster of me on their uh on their wall um and they used to and nan used to keep all the all the reviews i'd get so she'd put them up like and it was just that lovely thing that was really some lovely reviews and some shitty ones too and it was just like nan why you don't take that okay but but they and they used to watch me on tv and i come from a family where it's inconceivable that that i could be on TV from the family that I come from. It's like going to the moon. But because Nan and Granity said, we'd watch you on a TV, mind you,

we'd watch you with the volume down, you'd swear. So they would watch me when I was doing Good News or I was on Mock the Week with the volume down. They'd sort of wrestle wrestler on the box and just sort of see me kind of like that and but they were so through every part of my life I felt utter love for my nan and my granddad and they were around forever and and it's it's that thing where i don't know for whatever reason he was like this sage and my there's a beautiful photo of my cousin shane who who who died when he was he was 18 and he was on a scrambler motorbike and our granddad when we were about eight just to look at that and just go

there you go that is the bravest bloody boy you've ever seen in your life and it was like sort of a really interesting um story because he he had cancer and he died of cancer and he he went on this sort of scrambler he did this race and he was he completed, even though he was really not well at all. And our granddad told that was such pride. And it was this beautiful story. And that's what, and granddad, and you knew granddad told similar stories, obviously not as beautiful as that about all of us.

And yeah, when he died, it was just this sledgehammer to your heart where you just go, yeah, when he died, it was just this sledgehammer to your heart where you just go, Jesus, one of the good souls isn't here anymore. And yet this is the fascination of life. I was in Mexico and it happened. And my mum rang me up and said, Grandad's dead. And I was like like just no um literally seconds later there was a there was a mexican man just going and it was just like fuck me the universe is funny man so it was like utter

sadness and then somebody and it was um yeah it was just this weird like moment where you're like going fucking really really um so yeah that was the that was definitely an unbelievably low moment and yet weirdly became his funeral this beautiful moment where you were like I said at the beginning where you feel privileged to belong to the blood you belong to you know I've never done who do you think you are I know who I am I'm you know I know where I come from and I know my people and I feel proud to belong to those people um and the funeral of my granddad was just this reminder of the excellence of my family and how proud and how much we all love each other. So from that deep sadness came this reflection of my granddad. And you realize that everyone in this room were there because of his brilliance.

So it was this kind of weirdly bittersweet moment you know and my cousin my cousin Stuart wore a leather jacket and looked like fucking lovejoy and nobody understood and everyone's like why are you wearing a leather jacket oh we know we didn't have a suit and we were carrying granddad in the coffin and Daniel was like nice jacket Stu and our fucking shoulders start going because it's like you know like oh mate and everyone's like they're gonna laugh and we're like fucking hold it together hold it and then um yeah six weeks later my nan died and uh it was horrific six weeks later yeah six weeks later and then we went to the um went to the funeral again and stewart

rocked up that same leather jacket and you're me, man. And you could see everybody just looking down going, don't laugh. Why is he wearing this fucking leather? He literally rocked up like Hasselhoff. You're like, put a suit on. But it was weirdly funny. And you could hear everyone go, he's wearing a fucking leather jacket on. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, what's fucking wrong with him? Like it was all flapping and that.

But, and I had to do the eulogy for my granddad as well and that is something i put deep deep deep deep time into to make it and i'll you know and obviously you can't get it right you can't express what he meant to you but um yeah that was the that was a long answer to the lowest moment but yeah they they say um people can pass away from heartbreak yeah is for your grandmother to die six weeks following yeah i think yeah i think they would they would you know joined at the hip yeah they used to just kind of yeah yeah maybe it was that it was just kind of yeah it was just but also there was such constant and i just wasn't i'd never really been exposed to death and it was just kind of yeah it was just but also there was such constants and

i just wasn't i'd never really been exposed to death and it was just this kind of like for it to arrive quite late in your life it was just a real like whoa yeah and then you lose and then you've suddenly lost your nan and your granddad who would kind of like we we got like my nan is particularly just such a lovely she's got proper sort of blue gray owly eyes you know and she's always like tucking her sort of shirt down and she's coming and just tell you little she goes they're just weird little shit so i remember doing my dissertation she was staying around her house and she's like what are you doing i said i'm doing a a um i'm doing my dissertation now and she said what about i said it was about whether

it's right or wrong to advertise to children and my nan went it's not like that i kind of went well i've got to do 10 000 so you know it's not there is it come on come and have your tea i was like i can't just put it's not nancy veil i've got to do this. But she was very strange. We used to make flapjacks together as kids, when I was a kid, and she was obviously my nan. But we didn't like flapjacks. But we used to just make them as a thing and then put them in the bin. Fucking weird.

Yeah, I know. Yeah. And the reason we kept doing it is because it really annoyed my mum. Because she's like, what are you doing? Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you? And then she would get the flapjacks out the bin. And that was funny, watching my mum eat flapjacks from a bin.

I got a weird family, man. But, yeah, those were the, I wonder if she did die from heartache. I don't know. I mean, she, you you know they weren't particularly well towards the end of their life as well they sort of had uh kind of you know the certainly the beginnings of dementia so um yeah it was kind of you know it's that horrible thing where yeah I don't know it's just kind of yuck, isn't it? How about you? What was the lowest moment of your life?

Am I allowed to ask? Yeah. The lowest moment of my life. Good question. Is it shitty to ask you? No, it's no. Like if I can ask someone else, they have to ask me.

I don't even, it's a really interesting question. I think it would probably be oh no i know when it is it was the one that kind of stands out to me is really really sucking so my grandmother dying was one of them but i wasn't close to her right so it was just actually seeing my dad upset seeing your like dad cry for the first time was very like oh yeah that isn't that if you have you got a strong dad yeah strong yeah never seen him be emotional Yeah, that's the weirdest thing Quiet, passive

and then to see him cry that's very difficult to understand as a kid and then the other one is actually when my dad called me into his bedroom and told me he didn't love my mum and that they were going to get a divorce and they didn't get a divorce, they're still together now

but at seven I think I was when he said that to me, it was like earth, like foundation shattering information that I couldn't, I don't know why I always remember that. I don't know why I always recall that one, you know. It's like, I could never forget that moment in my life. What are you meant to do with that at seven? Fucking exactly. Especially when it doesn't even happen.

But their relationship for me was so toxic as a kid that I actually got to a point later where I'd come to terms with the illusion being burst that your parents actually might not stick together. And then I was actually willing them to get a divorce because they were just screaming at each other too much. So I think that's probably, for some reason, those two moments came to mind. If I told you that you could never write a joke again and you could never perform again yeah what would happen to you what i don't know it's hmm i think you'd go back to you i'd end up being what i was when i was younger i'm just desperately trying to make people laugh and and just sort of i'd just be a a bit of a nuisance at Tesco.

Do you know what I mean? When you kind of get in your shop and you're like, I was looking at the sperm donor the other day. Oh, he should have six foot four. Like, you know what I mean? It's kind of, you know, so I think. Why? I don't know.

I just like making people laugh. I like the, I like like it makes me feel good and it it's um yeah it just makes me feel good I kind of it's like you say it feels like you're giving them a socially accepted orgasm every time they laugh so you're literally going going around making people come why don't why Tesco yeah imagine making someone come in Why don't... In Tesco. Yeah, I know. Imagine making someone come in Tesco. But why don't I... Every little help. There we go.

But why don't... That's the new advert for Christmas. I'm sorry. Go on, carry on. What were you going to say? But why don't... Why do you have that need? And I don't.

So if you said to me, I could never write a joke again or I could never, you know, perform comedy again i would fine like my life would be unchanged but for you yours would be it'd be like an irritant and like what's the difference well it's the same as you like saying you know you can't you can't have your own business yeah you've got what so you've got work for somebody else so how does that feel for me it's it's a definite loss of purpose yeah for me it's like a huge loss of purpose um not so much working for someone else but not being able to like build yeah do what i do professionally it would be this huge

sense of like loss of purpose i might move on to like doing shows or like just writing books all the time or something else but But from a comedic perspective, it's like what you're doing is like very reliant on feedback of sorts. So I'm wondering where that's like coming from. Is that, you know, we kind of touched on it earlier in the conversation. It's just, yeah, it's been such a clear, consistent coping mechanism in the toughest moments of your life, evidently, that it makes me ponder how you would cope

without that coping mechanism, dealing with the reality of life. Yeah, but I think that's why I sort of said laughter is the lubricant that makes life livable. Life is tough and laughter provides respite for me. And it's so deeply human. provides respite for me. And it's so deeply human. Everyone has, irrespective of whether you have an easy, blessed life,

everyone has had moments of trials and tribulations. And laughter is just a thing that soothes us. And I find it particularly soothing that you take the sting out of pain by just making it funny. Do you know what I mean? And it's kind of, it just works for me. I just find laughing or making people laugh just the best. Because in the moment of laughter, you're lost. You are not of this realm.

You're kind of in this white noise space. And it's good. It's a good place to be. Escapism almost. Yeah, but exactly. And then you come back to kind of reality and you're a little bit more reconfigured or it lightens the load a bit

you know and and and i get a deep sense of satisfaction satisfaction from making people laugh so and you're right it is tied up in them you know it's very needy that's absolutely true but then you know i'm 41 now and i kind of know who I am, I'm kind of needy. Most comics are, because I've been asked to write sort of my autobiography quite a few times and it's like, I just don't feel like sitting and entertaining myself. Whereas when you're writing stand-up, you're writing it for an audience. So you can perform or you're making notes and you go, hey, I'll take that on stage

and I'll kind of riff it out and figure it out with them. Whereas a book to me just feels like it would be, I don't think I've got the skills to sit down and try and entertain myself and then eventually entertain people through the book do you know what I mean like I did a thing last year where we went to Australia and New Zealand during the pandemic because we're doing some gigs out there and we stayed in a hotel for two weeks and we made a stand-up show that blended me meeting people alongside stand-up. And it was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done.

We met these incredible women in New Zealand. There's a thing called the Coffin Club. And what they do is, I didn't know this. It turns out dyeing is really expensive. And coffins are really pricey. And what these retired pensioners do, they make cheap coffins are really pricey. And what these retired pensioners do, they make cheap coffins and they kind of sell them for like, you know, 300 bucks, really kind of low,

don't make any profits. So these beautiful funeral elves, and they make their own coffins as well, just for as a bit of fun. And I met this lady and she'd made three coffins for herself. And I was like, how come she made three? So I just keep putting on weight. And it was so touching and peculiar. And then we went into another room and there were little baby coffins, tiny, tiny. And it's one of those things that I hope nobody ever sees that. And I was like, how? And people often say, oh, comedy, hardest job in the world. Imagine making a coffin for a baby. It blew my mind. And I looked at this twinkly-eyed lady. I was like, how do you do that? How do you get yourself in a place to make something that

sad? And she kind of looked at me and just went, I do it so no one else has to. And it was so beautiful. And for me, I loved being able to tell that story through standup with her on the show. And I don't know if I have the skills to tell that story through words on a page. Do you know what i mean i'm sort of aware of a an ability i have as a communicator to make a story like that deeply human i could tell that in front of anybody and it gets to their heart it's so pure and there's so many stories out there like that that the trying to find those examples of magnificence, I find endlessly interesting. But you don't find them if you sat down and write a book. You've got to get out there

and you've kind of got to put yourself in peculiar situations. I met a lady that goes yaoi hunting. Turns out a yaoi is a big eight-foot, sort of like abominable snowman in Australia that he lives just outside Brisbane. She was absolutely wonderful, right? You know, mad as a box of frogs, but beautiful. And she was like, yeah, what we do put some cigarettes out and some beer that should lure him in. Like, so she puts this big jacket on me. She goes, yeah. And you might want to make the mating noise.

And I'm like, well, how does that go? And she's like, sort of like, I'm kind of lit into the field going. And she's like, sort of like, like something kind of lit into the field going, and she's like, yeah, you're doing really well. And then I panic because I start going, what if this is real? And suddenly this eight foot bloke comes along and fucks me like that. And I'm sort of dragged off and you're like,

and then it was so, and I was telling her this and we're laughing and it's funny that, that again, those stories, I love trying to find those stories. So I feel like I don't have enough stories yet to sit down and tell them all. And the great thing about standup, you can rotate your stories. You don't go, Hey, do you want to hear this? Hey, do you want to hear that? You know, or things can happen from nowhere my brother is an like we were we were having a conversation with a friend of mine recently and from nowhere my brother goes uh what because this bloke was talking about his friend he goes yeah he's a vet my brother goes yeah to be a vet you've got to shoot a cow in the face and i'm

like what's he talking about he goes yeah it's the only way you can be a vet if you've shot a cow in the face i said said, is it? What, so they do six years of school and then right at the end, they give him a Smith and Western and they blast him in the face. And he's like, well, don't give him that, you thick fuck. They give him a bolt gun.

Not going to shoot him with a rifle. Fucking moron. Like that. So we're having this kind of conversation and I'm like, what's he talking about? He goes, true, Kez told me. Kez told you, yeah, he knows, knows a vet, shot him in the face. So vet shot in the face says like that now weirdly a month later i'm doing a gig in leicester there's a guy chatting away and he's he's a he's a vet and i go listen i gotta ask do they make you

shoot cows in the face and he goes yeah yeah we have to it's one of the things the fucker was right so i ring my brother up in the middle of this gig there's 2 000 people there i ring him up and i'm like and put him on speaker on the phone i go you're right he goes yeah what and i go i'm just in leicester i'm at a gig yeah and i go um yeah you know that thing you were saying about cow and vets yeah it turns out you were right and he went yeah i know and he goes listen i've got to go i'm watching vigil like that but that was the correct story for that night is is my point that that that sometimes and it was so hilarious in that moment it couldn't have been more perfect yeah and then all the ushers the work there and go that was planned right yeah but it was but it only came about because me and my brother were with friends of mine in Exeter.

He told a mad story. I had an argument with him. We all laughed because my brother was talking shit. What's he on about? A month later, I meet, you know,

a vet. He agrees with my brother and we have a moment of magic. And it's, and it's the funny thing that that's all anyone would remember from that show. And I, I, i don't have the skills to do that through sitting on on my own i would be too excited to tell people the story so patrice evra yes who sat there before jimmy carr said one day

his girlfriend turned to him and was like are you happy and he and at first he like resisted that question because it makes people feel a little bit uncomfortable but um yeah are you happy um yeah at this moment yeah i've really enjoyed this chat like deeply and um i feel pumped up and energized so yeah but, but back to what I'm saying, I'm kind of, I need the energy of others to make me happy. You referred to, when I asked that question, you referred to this moment as if happiness was more of a mood in your view versus then like a long lasting state.

If we say, if we were to say that it's a state, a long lasting sort of the baseline, would you say you're happy um yeah i'd say i have more i have more moments of happiness than sadness and then so but but i'm in a state of flux with that like you know i can be super low and super sort of depressed about, oh, fucking hell, the jokes are shit this week in the show. God, I haven't got the stuff. You know what I mean? So I kind of, I can let things get on top of me. But I have more moments of happiness than sadness, I think.

Have you ever experienced what they call like depression, like clinical depression in your view? I don't know. I don't think so. I, you know, I have moments of like, where you can't, you know, be sort of aware you need to shift it, but I'm very much at right,

get on the treadmill, lift some weights, kind of do something, kind of a way you need to shift it but i'm very much at right get on the treadmill lift some weights um kind of uh do something kind of a guy i'm restless you know um but uh yeah i've never been you know diagnosed or anything like that but uh but yeah how about you you happy it's such a heavy question it's a really heavy question i remember the first time my uh fucking patrice ever yeah i know right yeah what an interesting fascinating bloke he is as well just crikey really heavy question. I remember the first time my... Fucking Patrice Evra. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. What an interesting, fascinating bloke he is as well. Just crikey.

Remarkable, remarkable guy. Am I happy? I remember the first time I was asked it and it felt really uncomfortable and I felt defensive about the question.

Yeah. My PA, who was also my girlfriend at the time, and he has a long story, we won't go into that. She asked me in the car one day, she was like,

are you happy? I was like, how dare you? I think that's my reaction. No, of course not. But was like are you happy I was like how dare you no of course not but that's kind of like my ego inside my chimp brain probably was like how fucking dare like of course I am I believe so yeah

I believe so and one of the things that I has helped me a lot is I'm very obsessed with gratitude and like constantly reminding myself of like how unbelievably fortunate I am to be one of the free ones. And what I mean by that is like financially free, free to do what I choose to most days. Of course I have days where it sucks and my mood's shitty and like I'm irritable and I'm a bit of an asshole to be around, but

I feel somewhat content despite my relentless excruciating ambition. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good answer. I'll take that one. Okay. Your manager said you're the hardest working comic he's ever met. Right. Yeah. Well, I just like... Is that toxic? People in our society at the moment, there's this kind of stigma around people that work too hard, that it's toxic productivity or... Yeah, but it's sort of, you know, you work at something that you love. So it's kind of like, you know, it's sort of those moments of like you just lose yourself in it it's like i imagine it's the same with when picasso was painting do you know what i mean he was just probably like

this is fun like do you know what i mean like i you know imagine is i'm not comparing myself to picasso i'm using him as an example of just sort of imagine his his manager going you need to fucking relax mate do you know what i mean the sistine chapel weapon but it's just i don't know i just i i love it and i don't um i don't mind working hard it's all and it's also it's not it's not working in the in the true sense like you just said how fortunate to be one of the free ones well like it's ridiculous like i'm i write the t i write stand up on my own but i but I do my TV show and I write it with five people. And we get to write jokes. That is our job. It's an unbelievably privileged job to be able to sit around and think of funny things for people. And that can be stressful,

but there are people working in jobs that they don't like that would kill for that opportunity. So you're right, you need those moments to kind of snap yourself out of your funk and remember that you're getting paid to do a hobby, ultimately, you know know in my case um and in mine like this is yeah totally but but my point being it's sort of like there's no there's nothing wrong with having low moments and everyone does

and it feels like the world is better now in terms of being able to talk about them. But you also, I think if you come from a certain background, you don't want to bitch and moan about yourself and kind of say that you're having a tough time or whatever. But if you're lucky enough to have friends that you can talk to or things like this or a therapist or whatever, it just makes the pursuit of happiness a lot easier, I think. Because I think that is, maybe that's what happiness is. It's about talking for long enough to realize what you have, whether that is a loving relationship, whether it's a job you love, whether it's a hobby you adore, but there will always be sort of shimmering

lights of hope in the misery. But sometimes somebody has to help you find them, I think. Do you know what I mean? Because I think it's very difficult to sit within yourself and go, yeah, I can see everything's fine. Sometimes you need a little bit of help to kind of remind you of how lucky you are. Your upcoming Netflix special, you called it Lubricant. I now know why. Yeah, yeah. But tell me what we can expect from this special and how it was conceived and what makes it, you know, I guess, worth watching. Wow. It is the best stories and jokes that I've written in the last two years from traveling around the world. I did a tour that was called Respite. And I kind of put together all the best bits about

kind of conspiracy theories and COVID and leadership and madness in the world. And I sort of splodged it all together. And you never quite know what it is until you sort of step away from it. And I think it's actually a love letter to laughter. That's what the show is. And the full hour is about the of of giggling and of being silly and how deeply human it is and and it should be treasured there's a bit in the in the

special where i was chatting about you know when you hear somebody play a musical instrument and you're envious of the notes they're making, it strikes me that laughter is a musical instrument that any one of us can play. And now is not the time to put down our fucking trumpets. And that's the show, really. It's about the importance of laughter and the role it plays in which we do life.

And it's lots of funny stories that are kind of all about that really. You talked about how as a comedian you have to kind of have this like self-evolution. What evolution in the comedian that you are in this special, Lubricant, have you observed in yourself? I'm slower and I'm more thoughtful and I try and make it more interesting

for people sat at home than in the room. I think previously I've been a bit too kind of high octane and I'm trying to kind of make it pleasurable for people at home so they can sit and enjoy it because that's how it ultimately is consumed. I have a fascination with anger and I have a fascination with beauty. So I find anger strange and I find beauty beguiling. And that is only getting deeper and deeper. So for example, that story about the ladies in the coffins, that isn't in this show, but it's somewhere deep in me. And I think that will come out in another show.

So it's sort of, the evolution as a comedian for me is that I want the next special and the next tour that I do to be deeply human. And I want it to be this, in the the best sense a place where you can fucking nod with me or and laugh with me and feel like this connection with people next to you and I think that comes through the ex through exploring how fucking weird and silly we all are i think i think the world's taking itself very seriously at the moment and um there's so much humor in it i think there's so much humor in the on the edges on in the shades of serious stuff do you know what i mean i kind of find it uh

yeah that's kind of what that's where it feels like my evolution is that i'm trying to kind of try and talk about you know i quite like being able to talk about serious stuff for example you know we you know talk about cancel culture or woke like the amount of times you hear the word woke in newspapers in the minute and it's because it just sells it sells papers man and it's kind of like hey have you seen what they've done? You can't say the word farts and boobies and arse in Scrabble. That's a story in the newspaper. And it was like furious, woke Scrabble bosses.

No one's furious about Scrabble. No one's like just, and even if they were doing that, how are they going to police it? No one's going to, you know, break into your house and go, did you just put clit on a triple letter? They're not going to do that. So I find that mechanism really interesting at the moment break into your house you go just put clit on a triple letter they're not going to do that so i find that mechanism really interesting at the moment that you go okay clearly there's money

to be made in kind of you won't fucking believe what i've done now that in in that energy but but also recognizing that it's just a trick it's fake outrage it's fake outrage and it's kind of it's the what next brigade and i but i find that really interesting that was like pierce morgan's whole thing for a while on tv it was like they've changed toilets to unisex yeah fucking yeah but because it it sort of like it just it works it's easy it's click and then you and you're there but it's kind of not it's just not nourishing and there there is actually a way of, of, of making the people that are, that succumb to that and the people that think it's bullshit, you can bring them together through really piss funny stories. Um, or true, like that story about the coffin and the lady doesn't, doesn't matter your political orientation, doesn't matter your

gender, whatever. That's a deeply funny human story and like you look at someone like billy connolly like like some of his bits are so beautiful and funny or george carlin that that they're they're majestic and you're kind of lost and i think there's a real value to to humor and it's it's often overlooked because it is silly and it is kind of fart piss shit fuck you know what i mean it's kind of you know what i mean it's fingers and ears and yeah but it it's it's a release and it's kind of it's a deeply important thing laughter deeply deeply important and if we didn't have it you know like i think it's only like dolphins and rats are the only animals that laugh i don't know how scientists found that out i know

i do actually they tickled the rat's bellies with a pencil this is presumably pre-covid do you know what i mean imagine that if it's just kind of vaccine i'm busy just trying to trying to get this rat to giggle but but yeah so that's Lubricant is it December 14th? December 14th yeah it was

it was Respite that's it was the show Respite and then right at the last minute I decided to call it Lubricant love it

but that becomes I mean we all know now listening to this why it's called that but it's kind of 40 minutes in you go

oh right there might be some furious perverts who were kind of going where's there's absolutely nothing here about like about vaseline about ky jelly this is it's bereft of any lubricational i hope someone writes in yeah it's a review this is not what you think it is it's absolutely disgusting i was fucking outraged and then you've got Until the Wheels Come Off as well which is a documentary

so yeah so Until the Wheels Come Off is a documentary about making a stand-up special throughout the Covid pandemic so yeah

it was kind of yeah sort of cameras followed us around and tried to you know like we did gigs in football stadiums

and car parks and crazy yeah it was brilliant it was nuts but we did uh ashton gate uh which is the home of bristol city um and we had to get 2 000 people in a uh 10 000 seat to stand they all had to be spread out and it was one of the weirdest gigs i've ever done but it's one of the best. And that comes out on the same day? So the doc is on the same day as the special. Wow. We have one. I'm excited for both. I actually did get the chance

to watch the trailer. Alright, nice. And it was hilarious. Oh, thanks, man. I'm particularly excited to see someone with your smarts and both comedic genius and intellect take on recent times. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. That's what I'm most excited about. So really, really looking forward to that on December 14th.

We have a longstanding tradition on this podcast where the previous guest, as I mentioned, writes a question for the next guest. So Patrice wrote, are you happy? Because that was the question that stumbled upon. I don't, I'm not going to say who the person was that's written this for you. Okay.

But I'm going to tell you what the question is. What three things would you give to the world, you can only answer with single words, to make it happier? Jesus. Jesus? Not that. That's one.

What three things would I give to the world to make it happier? You can only answer with one, one letter, one, one words, answers. I mean,

this is a real reverse Aladdin moment, isn't it? A fixed climate. Okay. I know that's two words, but... Fine. You know. Fine.

That's the first thing. Technology that stops mental health. So you zap them. Okay. And they're fine. It's just sort of a wand you wave at them mental health wand yeah so yeah a mental mental yeah so that's it fixed climate mental health wand and food yeah yeah i feel like fixed climate mental health wand food, food. And starvation. And starvation? And starvation.

Yes, right. Not and starvation. No, no, I was going to say, fuck me, I give and I take. Now I'm going to ask you to do the same. But before I do that, I just want to say a huge thank you for coming today because I've watched you on screen

for many, many, many years. I find you hysterical. But also, I love this opportunity to get to know a side of you that I wouldn't have ordinarily seen on screen because of the way that, you know, the format of TV and a depth in you. And you're just, again, you're super smart,

super introspective. You're a genius, clearly. And you're doing a service to the world, which is clearly so unbelievably selfless in cheering people up at a time when they really need it. That I feel like the comedians amongst us who are lubricating us through these hard times are national treasures at the moment.

So thank you. Oh, mate, what a sweet thing. I need you to come home and say that whenever I'm having problems with my wife. We'll send you a video clip, so you could do that. But it's time to write a question. Thanks for watching!