The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 128 - Nim The Chimp (Reverse)

Episode Date: October 31, 2015

Comedians Gareth Reynolds and Dave Anthony examine the life of Nim the Chimp. SOURCES TOUR DATES REDBUBBLE MERCH

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read... Are you okay? I don't know. I just don't know. I don't really feel like doing this. What? A dollop? Reading you a story. Do you want... I'm just over it you know what I mean. I'm tired of reading and you just sitting there. Okay. Well you're getting mean for sure. Okay it's just... Do you want... Do you want me to do one? Yeah. Okay. Is that alright if you would do one? Yeah that's fine. You want to do a reverse dollop? Can you? David. What do you think all this paper is? Oh! Oh! I didn't see that on your leg. So this week is when I read a story about American history to my friend David Anthony who knows nothing about it. There we go. Do you want to look who to do? I'll do one

bottle. People say this is funny. Not Gary Gira. Dave okay. Someone or something is tickling people. Is it for fun? And this is not going to come to Tickly Quadcast. Okay. You are queen fakie of made-up town. All hail Queen Shit of Liesville. A bunch of religious virgins go to mingle and do what? Pray. Hi Gary. No. Is he done my friend? No. The dawn of man! What? The dawn of man? Well you know somewhere around there. Fuck me holy shit. Despite some disagreement on evolution time has proven that man did indeed come from ape. Oh I'm gonna have to disagree with this. Already? That's an issue? That does not seem right. You believe a man. Well God created us in his image. You believe a man

in the sky put a bunch of little ingredients into a cauldron. Magic sky man made us. Okay so then I'll change this. Despite some ridiculous agreement on evolution. Humans and chimps differ by just over 1% of their DNA. That's it? That's it. Very close. Chimps are actually closer to humans than chimps are to gorillas. So they're more like us. Really? Gorillas are fucking idiots. We're both primates. Agreed. Like human. Well I don't need your degree to that. Like humans the bond between mother and child is intensely strong. If a mother dies the orphan chimp may be unable to survive in the wild

alone. There are many similarities between chimp babies and human babies. Both love to play. Both are curious. Both learn through observation and imitation. Both need constant attention and they need affection for proper development. The constant attention part is fucked up. Well it's like a child. It's like it would be the constant attention that your son needs. Which is that he would not survive in the world without you. No he did. He did survive in the world without you. Yeah for the first like four years we just put him in a dog house out back. Should you go on with your story? This is being recorded. Out loud.

What? Chimps are capable of emotion. They feel happiness, they feel sadness, they feel love, they feel loss. They are as emotional as man in many ways. Alright. So this is driven man to use chimps to learn more about ourselves. For instance from the 1900s through the 1930s a team of scientists attempted to teach chimps to speak. Okay. To actually speak English. Yeah. However when chimps did not grasp our complex language critics were vindicated. They felt the critics. I mean the critics. The lunatics. I love the fucking critics. The critics. Yeah the people who were like I don't think they could speak if you fucking shout at them. The animals

could not wrap their otherwise expressive lips around our words. In most successful cases they would make sounds charitably interpreted as short words such as mama, papa, cup, and up after years and years of training but that was more wishful hearing than anything. Yeah I can't. They were believing. Those are bullshit sounds. Yeah they were believing the chimps would say what they but I always. That's he said mama right? Yeah that's mama. Or cup and up. I mean actually you know what they really were doing is it was like the fit the noise where they'd be like yeah like that was like one of the things yeah. Oh he's

saying up. He's saying up. He wants to go out. Oh I've been here for nine years and I'm going crazy so that's up. Yeah well get ready. A 1925 scientific article suggested that sign language could be used as an alternative but serious efforts to teach non-vocal communication to apes only really began in the 1960s. Researchers attempted to teach individual signs derived from American Sign Language or ASL to a chimp named Washu. Uh-huh. To a gorilla named Cocoa and to an orangutan named Chantic. I've heard of Cocoa. Cocoa we all know about. Cocoa is the fucking business. Cocoa I'll tell you with Robin Williams. A crazy you you know that

video. Yeah. And you know that when they told Cocoa had this amazing video. Made a sad sign. Yeah Cocoa was expressed sadness when he found out Robin Williams had died. You do not want to know some of the movie reviews Cocoa gave to Robin. No actually they were there was a concerted effort to hide flubber from Cocoa for years. They did not want Cocoa to know about it. That or father's day they hid. By the way Cocoa hated Billy Crystal. Did not like Billy Crystal. Hated Billy Crystal. Well we are so much like monkeys. Yeah I'm telling you we're close yeah we're very close. So they so they would try to teach them and Sarah a

chimpanzee learned to manipulate arbitrary plastic symbols standing for words and another chimpanzee named Lana used an early computer keyboard with arbitrary symbols that reach researchers called lexagrams. So there was every indication that you know that they they were able to communicate. Right. Chimps and apes were able to grasp this. Okay. So in the 1960s and 70s it became the golden age of the ape language learning. Fuck yeah this is when the plan of the apes happened. Yeah and people yeah people think the 70s were disco. No that's right. The golden age of ape language learning. If you go back and look at the

the video historical recordings that's when the apes took over. Cocoa was in studio 54 with Andy Warhol. That's what I'm talking about. Jim Morris and all that. Researchers claimed that apes had learned tens even in some cases hundreds of signs but popular accounts went farther. They had they'd said that apes had actually held conversations and that apes had grasped sign language. Still in the mid 1970s a scientific debate was raging over the origin of language. There were two camps. Those who held that human language was part of a continuum in which case we'd expect other primates to have the rudiments of language and those

who thought that language was uniquely human and there would be no evolutionary trace of it in other apes. You know I'm saying. Yeah those guys seem kind of like dicks though. Who. The guys who say that's just human. The humans are the only ones that can be possible. Yeah well that just seems like you know fucking egotistical horseshit. Well we I talked to your cat. Yeah well listen Jose is we've all Jose scrapes sign language really well. He's caught on fast. But yes for sure it is it's crazy and that's egotism. So so although the trained apes often would use two to three signs the question really was do the

hand gestures constitute words. Do they truly understand that signs and lexicograms stood for objects or actions. Were there strings or were there were did they know they were stringing together like two to three word sentences. Right. Which brings us. I feel we're gonna get to it. To Herbert Terrace. Oh fucking Herbert. A man who focused much of his career on developing a theory that explains how humans arrived at language when primates did not. He was Brooklyn raised. Terrace earned a BA in psychology an MA in experimental psychology from Cornell and a PhD in psychology from Harvard. Oh shit. He's not a he's not an

idiot. As a graduate student much of Terrace's work focused on pigeons which is I feel like we're mom and dad are proud. Okay. What was it. He just moved into a house with a bunch of. Was he talking to pigeons. Well what is his so his dissertation about with pigeons showed how they could learn to tell colors apart without making mistakes. Nope. But after yeah I mean who knows. I mean why don't I just kill yourself and sit. I think he thinks it's red. The Pete like the teacher watching it was like Jesus. But after coming to Columbia he found his way back to the subject that had interest him as an undergraduate

language and behavior. One catalyst was his reading of verbal behavior and 1957 book by B.F. Skinner his hero that had been notoriously criticized by the MIT linguist Noam Chomsky. Fucking really. Chomsky hammering down. Oh Chomsky hammering down B.F. Skinner who was Herb's hero. Okay. So Terrace was intrigued by reports of people who were training chimpanzees to use human language among them. Washu who we heard about earlier. We all know about Washu. We all know about Washu. That's what you do when you get mud on your sneaker. Wash on wash off. Washu. But Terrace says that the work that was done with Washu which was

basically this couple had Washu was largely anecdotal. He envisioned taking the next step not only training the animal but also documenting and rigorously vetting the results. So in 1973 Terrace embarked on a research study. What if an infant chimpanzee was to be taken from his mother's arms and sent to live with a human family in part of a Columbia University. We just talk about how they're close to humans and they need to be around people. Well I mean be around their fucking parent and that they would die without them and that they need fucking love and affection from their parents. Yes. We just went through all

that right. Well yes. It sounds like they're creating a monster. Yes we just went through that but I think we'll prove further that that is true. They are. I see this going very wrong. No this will be great. Dave I've been in your position a bunch and I know the way you're setting it on. No listen to me. Listen to me because I know what it's like to be in the passenger seat. OK. I get it. OK. I'm telling you as a friend. OK. Don't worry. This is a feel. This is a feel good. This is a feel good story. OK. Well you're doing it. So the experiment was a go and with Terrace he was tasked with finding his chimp where was he

going to find it. He ended up going with Dr. William Lemmon. Two M's just so you know. Who ran a primate research center in Oklahoma. A chimp was to be born and said primate research center. His mother Caroline was treated as a breeding machine at the facility. So this facility is terrible by the way. It's like you know cages chimps. It just not. It's not good. They're just breeding it for science. Some breeding for science. Some are just in you know in cages. It's just just just because. Well no it's yeah it's not even. It's prison. It's prison. It's chimp prison. It's not necessarily for science. It's just the chimp prison. It's

just like a reserve for whatever reason. So when you walk by the mother chimps and their babies and go please take my baby. Oh they're fine with it. Yeah. No yeah. So yeah. So Caroline was like a breeding machine at the facility. Every one of her babies had been taken from her for experiments. Jesus Christ. She knew the routine well enough to turn her back as soon as her baby was born. Oh shut up. Presumably hoping that a human would not notice him. It's not a feel good story. But how can a chimpanzee hide her baby when she lives in a bare cage? Answer. She can't David. The chimp was taken from her a few days after

his birth and he was to be used in terrorists' weird experiment of putting a chimp into the real world. This is the same kind of shit that the apes do when they take over because. Dave I'm not gonna have you bringing Caesar into this again. The chimpanzee was to be named Nim Chimpsky. Oh my god. A nod to Noam Chomsky the hater from earlier. Holy fuck. Or Nim. Just to be called Nim. This is just a giant pile of dicks. Nim was distraught over losing his mother. But he was also too scared to let go of his handlers. I mean he's old is he. He's like three days old. But that's the time to grab a baby chimps. So he's three days

old. He's like the mother is like distraught as fuck. Well the mother is like I guess already given up. She's dead inside. And they drank her. They also they they drank her and they have to you have to get the baby that he's so small that you have to get him out of her arms before she drops. Otherwise she'll crush him. So they shoot a drank at her and then they fucking yank her. What's a good story. It's fun. It's fun. Oh I should mention this is a real feel good story. So the question was where would Nim live and with who. But isn't it obvious Dave. Nim was to live with a family of a former psychology student

of terrorists in a Manhattan brownstone. That's right. Nim was to live with a family of rich hippies essentially. Nim's mother in the experiments was Stephanie LeFarge. The plan was for Stephanie to teach Nim sign language and so test Chomsky's theories about generative grammar. Jesus Christ. To see if he would grasp sign language and be able to communicate. Now. Well how could he not now that he's psychotic. Well yeah no he's in a good place. She was to raise Nim as a human and he was to be treated. Go ahead. You can't it's not a human. Don't don't tell the LeFarge is that. She was to raise him as a human

and he was to be treated exactly like Stephanie's seven other children. Right sorry sorry. I should point out right now that she had seven other kids living there. Yeah yeah. So there's Jesus Christ. This is the worst sitcom ever. Totally. It's totally like what a sitcom would do in season four when the ratings sink a little bit. It's just bring it. I brought on a new kid. It's Nim. Welcome Nim. So there's so there's seven. Our new brother is really upset. So there's seven. There's there's seven other kids and now there's an eighth. The only difference with the eighth is that he was a child. A tiny one. There was no family discussion

about should we or shouldn't we LeFarge's daughter Jenny Lee recalls. It was clear Stephanie was saying let's have a chimp. Also notice in there she calls her mom Stephanie which is there a father in the house. We'll get to him. Hold on. Well some weren't sure about this being the right situation. Tara stood by the decision saying a chimp could not have a better mother. True. Well the only other mother I can think of would be Carolyn its actual mother. He would probably be a really good mother. There is there's one other one other candidate. If I'm thinking second mother I'm thinking I'm thinking a mother with seven kids.

Kids colored by their first name Stephanie LeFarge genius. Now maybe you know and we we might just say yeah. Chips love brown stones. Oh God. I mean I know no one said that yet but they love brown stones. He recognizes the property value. Yeah. Of course he knows the reason he's being raised as a human he understands. He used to watch the Cosby show. Yeah. He loves brown stones. So but Stephanie might have been the right call because as she put it I knew nothing about monkeys or apes. What the why would you fucking give. Okay. Okay. So she knew nothing. That's perfect. He he basically the the whole thing is that he used to

fuck her. So he used to fuck her and she wants another baby and she but she's getting older and she also she she was like I don't remember exactly what she did but she was in some sort of like like some sort of psychiatric work and some some capacity but it was not anything near associated to this. So it was not. Yeah. So she she knew nothing. She didn't seem to mind that she knew nothing. She admitted that she never studied anything about chimps or apes while them was with her. What she did care about was having what she called an intimate relationship with a mammal. Oh. I want you to know what she's also. Yeah.

They used to bang like I said. Okay. Okay. So that was really the test of all this. So the test the test essentially is can a chimp communicate what he is feeling through learned human communication. It would be an expansion of human communication and let us know that language did actually evolve. Right. So it's not that humans just came up with language language evolved from chimps. Can he form sentences. That's what we're trying to prove by putting them in a brownstone with seven other fucking children. Have you seen the show fish with Abe Vagoda. No. What. It's pretty close. Now. Nim was to dress as a

toddler human. He was to eat like a human. He was expected to brush his teeth like a human. He put his pants on one leg at a time every day just like us humans did. Just like. Okay. Stephanie Lafarge admits to breastfeeding them for a while. Fuck off. As she did her other human children. What a fucking monster. Who. Nim. He wanted milk or Stephanie the psychopath. She let a chimp suck her teeth. Feeding a fucking chimp breastfeeding chip. I couldn't have bit her tit off. Okay. He's honestly he's too little. He's too little. Oh yeah. And he was so fucked. He was if you think about it it is like it's I mean like

it would be like I mean it would be like it's it's orphaning. I mean it's orphaning a creature into a world that it's not meant for. It's one thing if you send someone to an orphanage where they interact with other people who are like them. It's another thing if you send a child. It's like taking a turtle and putting it with cats. It's exactly like taking a turtle and putting it with cats. Now Stephanie brought him up for a while in her home as if he was a human child which she shouldn't have done which should not have done but she quickly understood that Nim's nature was more powerful than anything. Oh that's

weird. She just dawned on her. In many ways he was like a baby. Jane Goodall is quoted as saying when you meet chimps you meet individual personalities. When a baby chip looks at you it's just like a human baby and this was what she viewed in him as within a couple of months he could scoot around the house and in a few more months he could climb the walls and yet he had diapers on and he was vulnerable and he needed to be fed. Yeah but very quickly his physical attributes emerged. That's so weird. I wouldn't expect that. And from a very powerful small animal. You were asking about her husband. Yeah. There was a

husband. Oh good. There was a husband. Her husband's name was Weir. W-E-R. And I'm sorry. Weir. W-E-R. It sounded like you started a name and you didn't finish it. I think his parents had died during naming. How did Weir feel? Is your question. He wasn't into it. What are we doing. Weir. What are we doing. Weir was not a fan. Weir was not a fan of this. Stephanie. Also it's his like it's his brownstone. So like it's his he it seemed it seemingly he just got pushed over and he just allowed this with very he had very little he could say about it but he was not into it. If you don't

let me have my monkey I am leaving with the kids. And there was an age difference too. In between. Between Stephanie and Weir. Yeah. And Weir and Nim. He's older. Weir's older. He's a little older. Probably like probably like 15 20 years old or something like that. She's like pushing 40 now right or is she. No she's no she's young. She's probably like like 30. She's young. So she's been cranking out kids. Yeah. I'm not I but I'm not a hundred percent. I don't know. They were super weird hippies. Okay. So but yeah they had seven seven children. I don't know if some of them were weirs but anyway his name is

Weir. That's what matters. Weir was a thinker. He was a poet. He was not interested in having a chimp live in his brownstone. That's so weird because most poets would love to have a chimp living with them. Yeah. Listen. I mean who would. There's no greater way to do poetry than it with having an animal scurry across the roof. Great for your material too. It was said he was a poet and he wasn't interested in having a chimp in his brownstone. It was said that Nim didn't like Weir and Weir did not like Nim. Nim would begin pulling Weir's books off of the bookshelf. Scattering Weir's books all over the floor. Oh my

god. A clear fuck you to Weir who was meticulous about his books. Weir had lost his home to Nim. Never getting it under control. One day when Nim was being fed, Weir put his arm around Stephanie. Big mistake. Nim did not like what he saw. Oh no. And he bit Weir's hand hard. Holy fuck. How old is fucking Nim now? Nim's just about a year. Jesus Christ. But he's a fucking chimp. Yeah. Okay. He is like it's. Yeah I get he's an animal. So he also and I mean I don't even know like where you can stand on this but you know he chimps have fangs. Yeah. His fangs were never removed. So he was he had fangs. Right.

So when he bit people he would fucking bite people. It was becoming clear to Weir that if Stephanie had to choose between Nim and Weir she would choose Nim. She was that smitten. She loved her little guy. As far as the sign language goes, Stephanie didn't seem that bothered about teaching Nim sign. Which was the whole point of the fucking experiment. She just wanted a new little hairy baby. Who doesn't? Truth be told, she wasn't even fluent in sign language. Wait, what? I'm sorry. Could you back up? It's it wasn't the whole deal was that she was going to teach the whole deal is like yeah. So he is like in. So she be she should be

signing to him this whole time. It should all be about sign language and communication. That's not to say that she wasn't like she knew sign language and some of her kids knew sign language. But she's not fluent. It was not and it was not a focus. It really was not a focus for her. Right. Just having a new little monkey baby was a focus. I mean she she was like way more focused on spending quality time with Nim. Whether it be breastfeeding Nim or laying naked with Nim and letting Nim explore her body or watching Nim masturbate or letting Nim drink alcohol or even letting Nim smoke pot with her and some other hippies. Wait.

Nim was basically allowed to do whatever the fuck he wanted. Oh god. He had no rules. Like and but I mean honestly like she's. You have to even if it's a monkey you have to give it boundaries. I can't believe I'm actually. No it's honestly true. You have to give kids boundaries and you have to give and if you have an animal living with you have to give it boundaries. So she is and she didn't give a fuck like she just wanted him to be happy as happy as he could be. Did you say she the monkey watched. Did you say Nim watched her masturbate. She watched him masturbate but he was very like physical and she basically she had she put very

little limits on what she would let Nim do as far as like touch her breasts or like I think like touch her fucking vagina. I mean look he's curious. He is cute. Well and keep in mind too that the you know a chimp a chimp of like his life he becomes an adolescent faster. I mean he's fucking one so it's not right right but he they do they do like a one year old human. Yeah he's a little older. Right. I mean you know masturbation age. No I don't even know he's masturbation age. Who knows what he's I mean I guess every chimp is masturbation. It seems to be what they love to do is masturbate. Nim was basically allowed to do whatever he

wanted. He would climb the walls he would rip apart pillows and he was never told no. So just to recap what's going on here Dave. No banners. Her former student slash bang buddy Stephanie who is supposed to be teaching him sign language in the name of science is an actuality just getting high with him and letting him play with her naughty bits. That's where we are. Just so we're clear. Look it's gonna make a great comedy. So you're probably wondering where the architect Herb Terrace was. Oh yeah. Right. Is he checking in all the time. He's the guy who started this whole fun. It's his experiment. He would check in from time

to time. And he would look at the results. He didn't come by much though. Herb stood by that decision by suggesting that a chimp will always gravitate towards the mother. He also was called to Nim viewing him more as an experiment not a living breathing feeling being. Nim didn't care for her much either biting him one day when he tried to pull him from a high place. Jesus Christ. And in general it is true that like a chimp like is it you know it's gonna go more maternal but still you should not like he he put it in this fucking brownstone. Yeah. And it's there and he doesn't do shit. Right. So Nim was

but still. Nim was smart. He really was. He was learning signs as time were on. He was starting to say things like play and Nim and eat and hug. He was minorly connecting thoughts. He was sweet. He was empathetic. But Stephanie still refused to control Nim. And Herb was taking note that this was maybe not the best environment for Nim and science. Nim was only a year and a half old but it was obvious there was no discipline. Stephanie eventually stopped listening to Herb completely. Shaking off charts for progress. Stephanie did nothing. There were literally she took no notes. There were no tracking stats. There was no

schedule. There were no journals. There was zero. And that's why Herb Terrace is such an asshole because he just let this go on for 18 months. 18 months Nim is there going apeshit masturbating like smoking weed drinking and he's learning very few signs just that he's picking up. That's insane. So Herb finally made a good decision. He decided to try to move on from Stephanie. All right. He put up a sign looking for people to participate in a sign language experiment at Columbia and in walk Laura and Petito. Okay I'm sorry. This isn't the thing where you put up a fucking flyer. Yeah yeah no like do you want to

learn how to play the drums? This. What? So full flyer. Looking for a drummer and someone to house a dog walker. Adolescent chimp. Yep. And teach it how to speak English. Teach it how to talk with its hands. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Now this is gonna go great. Sure yeah. So now a chimp that has already had the horror of being ripped away from its mother is not gonna be ripped away from its other mother. Yes however well okay so that's so okay so she she walks in she's 18 she's attractive. She immediately recognizes the scientific integrity of all this and they couldn't just like yank them out. Like there are very few

good calls made one of them being that they couldn't just yank him away so what they started to do was Laura started to come over to Stephanie Lafarge's house and she was there as a teacher. She was teaching them signs and started to form a bond with her. Hey girl. How do you think Stephanie took that? Well she's gonna get jealous. Not good. Stephanie did not like Laura. She felt threatened by all the teaching and she could see them slipping away to his new favorite. She she really was so steadfast in the belief that he should not be learning. Is this a weird question but is Laura hot? Laura is hot. So she so so what what

Stephanie ended up doing was she attempted to limit when they could come over and seen him. This is her. She's like hey you can't come over right now. So finally. Nim's busy climbing the wall. Yeah like yeah Nim's masturbating on my tits. So you can't come over now. He's getting high. Later. He's getting high. He's eating Weir's brain. Right now Nim's eating Weir's brain like it's a pumpkin he's emptying. What a weird. So finally after a little bit of time Nim was removed from the brownstone and Stephanie Lafarge's quote unquote care. Wow. After the ordeal Stephanie Lafarge admitted to not wanting Nim to learn any language.

Jesus fucking Christ. What a fucking asshole. She is such an asshole. Nim was moved to a room in Columbia University a place where he would not be treated like a goddamn party animal. It's time for college. It's right exactly. This is the sequel baby. Nim goes to college now baby. Here Laura came up with a schedule and she started to teach Nim. See what he could really do. She was great every few days. He's learning more and more signs as time we're on. I told you this is going to be a good ending story. It's great as time we're on Nim is getting bigger and he's getting smarter and a move was needed. But basically she's

just like in this little room teaching him and he's like absorbing signs. He's like getting it. He's the words are just I mean he's learning more and more becoming much more expressive but he's too big. So where what are they going to do? Well Herb came up with a plan to go to the president of Columbia University and suggest that they move Nim into a 37 room mansion in the New York Palisades that Columbia owned. Oh my god what? This is season three. We're already there. Yeah that was a short yeah it's true. The college years went by so fast. Well listen I mean we're already in the season three. Yeah and now Nim's

now Nim's Richie Rich. Moving on up. Yeah totally. I mean this is crazy. So he suggested we move Nim into a 37 room mansion in the Palisades. The president was not sure and said okay if Herb would pay for the heat. What? Herb said sure he'll pay for the heat and then the president basically said yes take a two-year-old chimp to this 37 room mansion. What? Because that makes sense. There's no one so no one else is in the mansion. Nobody. So it's just gonna be him and Laura? Well what they're they're actually gonna start they're gonna expand it and they're going to bring more teachers in. So what they did was

Laura and Herb moved in to this mansion. They hired more teachers for Nim but Laura was to be the Nim's primary teacher, the head project coordinator and essentially the mother. She again was to raise him just like a child while attempting to teach him American Sign Language. When Nim arrived at the 37 room mansion he was elated. He'd been living in this fucking brown town. He'd been staying in a room in Columbia. And now he's got a fucking giant place to fucking swing his sheep around. He's never really seen nature so he's seen grass. He's happy. He's happy as he can be at least and being a

consummate professional. Wait I didn't think about that so it's not it's not even taking a fucking chimp and putting him in housing. It's taking him chimp and a chimp and putting him in a city. Like he hasn't seen fucking trees. I always think that with dogs in New York. When I see dogs in New York shit on concrete I'm like it just must be a little weird for them. Yeah totally. Like they get comfortable with it but it's just a little weird. No it's gotta be weird. But he he's never I mean and the whole thing again is like you know that's the idea is to like treat him like a regular fucking human. Right. So I mean that's

part of it. So he was he's over the moon and you know Herb terrorists being a consummate professional eventually began sleeping with Laura even though she was 18 and he was in his late 30s. Oh my god. He's a fucking pervert. Oh but come on he's using a monkey to get laid. That's fucking amazing. I mean he but that's why he also took it to Stephanie because he's the banger. Hey what's your name. Laura is a Laura. Yeah. You ever seen a monkey. Your dick's out. Yeah. That's not the monkey I'm talking about. You ever seen a monkey. No don't look down there look up here. Uh huh. No. You don't see a monkey. Sure. All right come on. You mean your

dick right. No it's gonna be a monkey. I feel like that sounds with your dick. Yeah it does. I knew it. So he yeah so Herb's a consummate pro. So names but name again is getting bigger. He is growing. His diapers eventually become an issue. Yeah sure. Like he's I mean. They don't make a giant baby diapers. No. Not. Not. They don't make a giant baby diapers. Yeah they don't. Yeah. Yeah. Mommy. Wow. There's not a chimp section at Target. I think that's what the plan was here. Um but Laura was communicating with him so fluidly that she was actually able to tell and he could communicate to her when he had to use the toilet. With sign language. With sign language. He would gesture

that he had to go to the bathroom. Yeah. And he was putting senses together. He was learning more and more. That's amazing that an intelligent animal can point its butt. Yeah. He. They've really made some progress. Yeah. It's true. But he again he like. Okay. His estimated one adult. His estimated size was to be five eleven one hundred and fifty pounds and to be six times stronger than a man. Geez. Okay. So around three years old he begins to realize his strength and he begins to become a little sassy. He gets into attack mode more and more. Is he is he able to sign. I don't take any shit. No shit. No. No shit. He just says no and then throws his shit. No shit. No shit. Starts carrying a child. By the way. By the

way. Recently heard a thing with Jane Goodall where you know that there is the stereotype that monkeys love to throw their shit. They just do it at people. Right. They just do it in captivity. The only reason monkeys throw their shit is because they're in captivity and they're in fucking hell and prisoners like to throw their shit on the walls. Yeah. Of course they do. Crazy ones. I mean you gotta make you gotta make statements. Mel Gibson did it on South Park. So he would go into attack more and more and more. If he didn't like how you stood up he would go into attack mode. If you didn't share food with him he would go into attack mode. Nim would get pissed and he would he would show you by staring

at you and the hairs on him would stand up. Oh fuck that. He would bark. Nobody needs that shit. Hair standing up. He would bark. He was threatening. He still had those fangs. He was by all means a wild animal. If you showed weakness in his presence he exploited it. He could put you in your place in a violent and aggressive way. So they all said you couldn't be too kind to him. As he became an adolescent you had to make him respect you. Right. You have to set boundaries. You gotta set boundaries. But the thing about respecting him the respect works for the kid because they're they're scared of you. Yes. Not physically but you know they're yeah. He physically needed to know that you were not afraid to get physical

with him. And I mean there were many teachers who would come in and out of this this experiment and a lot of them would not be you know if he if he thought you were weak right away he would be like go fuck yourself and I would be weak. I wouldn't fucking look at a monkey like I'm better than you. Dude me and me and Evan worked on this show where it was the worst show but one of the things you had to do. Monkey cop. Monkey cop. You remember it. Yeah. It was not good. I mean I loved it. Yeah. I know. Yeah. No. I mean New York Times said this show is bananas. Some of the best takedowns I've ever seen. Thank you. But there was it was a terrible it was like a terrible like Hollywood story where there's

like a chimp who is being fed McDonald's like by an owner and he's there and he had to do these improv things. I won't bore people with this nonsense but he had to do this improv shit. Oh my god that was improv monkey. That's a great show. It's a terrible show. He could not yes and he would he would know who he did yes shit. He's yes pood but and you watch it and he was on a leash the whole time and he was so domesticated but still angry. Not get sensitive. Just it's off. Yes. It's off. It's totally it's a wild animal and you have it on a leash in a studio. Yes. And it yeah and they would give him jolly ranchers. It was great. Oh god. Yeah yeah. So you couldn't be kind. He as he became an adolescent if

you were not mean he wouldn't respect you. The fact of the matter is he respected people who would actually bite him or hit him. Joyce Butler a new teacher. Oh my god this sounds like my kid. He's just like Finn. I've always said that. Yeah. Yeah. I bit him so hard yesterday. You have to at this age. Yeah. He wouldn't. Yeah. He looked at me weird. You got a guy. Here we go. Make that hair on your back stand up. That's right. The back of your neck stand up and fucking show that little guy. But Joyce Butler a newly hired teacher bit him's ear when he misbehaved immediately when she met him. He bit her. She bit his ear. Shut up. And then their relationship was solidified. Oh fuck me. Well this lady

gets it. Yeah. He really was. You know what I like this one. It's one solid. She fucking almost bit my ear off. She's great. Laura. However was getting attacked a little bit more and more by Laura's soft and gentle Laura and Laura's known him since he was little. Yeah. Like the difference between him when he was 18 months or a year. He's changed now is vastly different. We've all seen him. He knew that he could get shit. Right. It was almost it's almost like like Neo and the Matrix being like wait I'm the fucking I'm Neo. Right. He started to realize like fuck I'm stronger. I can get what I fucking want from these people. It's a lot like Neo. It's a lot like I've always said that. But Laura was

getting attacked more and more one time having to receive 37 stitches in her arm. Another time Nim ripped a tendon out of her wrist. You know what work is hard. Work's hard. Today I had I had an eye taken out and I don't have any tendons in my arms. Yeah. No 37 stitches. He in they said that he almost needed to draw blood to stop and she went back. She was there. She went back after getting 30 so she's fucking nuts 37 stitches. She's crazy. They all seemingly form a bond with Nim where they it's almost doesn't matter. It's almost worth it. The good news is Herb Terrace didn't seem to find any of this to alarming and did very little why would you why would it be alarming that a fucking wild animal ripped a tendon out of

a human. It's true. It's a job. You should be surprised if he didn't attack people. So Herb didn't do much but he was growing tired of his relationship with Laura and he called it quits. What. He was tired of fucking an 18 year old. Yeah. She when she was asleep so so that was it. I decided she was heartbroken and she decided she was going to leave the project. Oh man. It was all about him and that's what got her to go. She got 37 stitches. She got her tendon ripped out and that was her. You know where it hurts. Inside so many stitches hurts right in here. There's so many emotional stitches. None of stitches to take care of what happened to me when she was leaving. Nim could tell really. Yeah. She had boxes.

He could tell she was leaving. She was being held by somebody and as he was leaving he jumped basically off of a balcony to go to her. He went up to her took her by the head and bashed her head into the concrete. It took four men to restrain him. She would survive this heart felt good. Holy shit. What. Yeah. Holy fuck. Oh my god. That's exactly how he broke up with the two of my girlfriends. You I thought it sounded familiar. Yeah off the fucking balcony smashed the head. I thought it sounded. Just like that. Yeah. So he and she's she that's love. That is love. That's true. Wearing a wife beater. He was drinking a blitz. He's having a can of blitz smoking a new port in a wife beater. Waiting for NASCAR

to come. Yeah. Waiting for his NASCAR shit. He's like bitch. I told you lady. God damn. So after a departure. Nim really began bonding with Joyce who the lady who been a little bit of years back and another teacher named Bill Tynan. Oh Bill. They would take Nim on walks. They would have little picnics with him. And of course Bill and Joyce started fucking because Nim was like Viagra. Hold on. If you went through something very fast it sounded like you said something that can you repeat that? Well which part? The little picnics. No. They weren't fucking Nim. Bill and Joyce started. Oh God. I thought you said she was fucking a monkey. No. No. No. No. No. Don't worry. No. Nim is. So Bill and Joyce are fucking

which is a great choice around a crazy monkey. Like but that's what seems to happen is that like you it's like let me just let me tell you something right now. I don't know shit about chimps. OK. But I can tell I know they can smell dick on you. Yeah. Oh for sure. So yeah. But so they're like spending all this time with him and they both are like bonding with him and like and then they just started banging. Yeah. So bad idea. It's always a bad idea to start like a coworker relationship but not when there's a monkey involved. Yeah. What shit were you champ? No. Honestly. Good Lord. Or champ will shit you. Yeah. Yeah. Nim loved cats on some of their. On some of their walks they would let Nim play with the

cat. Oh God. Don't do that. He loved the cats. He would hold them. He would pet them. No. He was so excited by them that he sometimes would shake with nerves while petting them. Oh God. It's like have we not seen that play. As Nim sexuality grew. He began to really love cats. Oh God. Damn it. He began to rub the cats up against his chimp love shaft. Oh fuck yeah. But it wasn't he was never trying to. It was like if a dog humped your leg he was never there was never like fear of insertion but he would take the cats and he would start to sort of like soft like yeah he would start to be sorry. It's so soft never thought about this but cats are very soft. Right. But and if you have a dick and you're a monkey I'm

going to lock Jose in the other room real quick. You get. Huh. No I'm saying if you're a monkey it's like having a little fuck thing. Right. You rub it against your. Okay. Didn't see you taking Nim's side in this one. I think it was making the first really good decision he's made. He's not putting his dick in there he's just rubbing it up against him. But his humps were aggressive and the cats they started to have to take away the cats. Well the cats probably didn't enjoy it all that much. Well when he would pet them he would he was he he was like nervous about what he was just when he really started talking. Oh come in pet him and rub him in. No Mr. Bondi expected to die. So they eventually started to take

the cats away from him. Now we do that with our son family he tries to fuck the cats. Yeah. Well it sounds genetic from the way you just acted. I mean it's a family thing. Okay. It was not lost on any of it goes back from what I've seen generations all the way to monkeys. Okay. You're claiming that you never evolved out of. Some things we kept. Dave. Dave don't. Nim was very communicative. He all of his teachers believe they were having actual conversations with him. When things were going really well Herb decided that it was time to force Bill Joyce and Nim to start coming into Columbia at times to record some of the interactions. So they would basically now like he's he's

there and he's learning but Herb decides that he wants like actual footage of this. So he insists they go in and Nim and they they hated the classroom. He missed the mansion sure there's a small brick room with no windows. No it's fucking horseshit. And he quickly learned that yeah it's he hates it. Why why why they bring him in there. What's the fucking point because he Herb terrace for whatever reason seemed to be a fan of a more sterile environment. He's a fucking idiot. We already know this where there was more focus. That's Sarah. This is the guy who had him living with fucking crazy McTitty and defended it and defended it for a long long time. Crazy McTitty hippie. Quickly. Nim learned that

in the classroom if he had to go to the bathroom he could leave the classroom. Which meant that him started signing that he had to go to the bathroom more and more until it became a problem. Nim kept saying he had to go to the bathroom and he was really just ditching class. He's like a fucking teenager. I love him. I mean I did that. Somebody told me one time that if you left a class for five minutes every class you went to the bathroom five minutes every class at the end of the year at the end of the year you'd missed like seven days of school or something. Dude my god someone did math. It stuck with me so much that I got every class. I was like yep you got to do five minutes. Teachers would be like seriously.

I had like clockwork. Had to do it every single class. Nim was starting to like herb less and less. Herb really would just show up for yeah he's a shithead. Herb would show up mainly for photo shoots with Nim or when someone wanted to interview him he wanted Nim there kind of his arm candy. Herb was getting bit more and more by Nim. However the worst bite of all did not happen to herb. It happened one day when Bill was handing Nim to another trainer. So they would basically like they would have. He smelled Joyce on him. They would have they would have. Bill doesn't get bit. They would have rope attached to their belt that would be attached to Nim and then they would like pass Nim to the other

trainer who would take him and then they would attach Nim to that person's belt right. So it was a really common transaction and as Nim was being passed off to a female trainer he bit her face basically ripping her cheek down. Blood gushed out and she was immediately taken to the hospital. It turns out she would be okay if okay means having to let it heal on its own because it couldn't be sutured for fear of infection. God what. Yeah so that was a fun. Oh my God what. Fun year. I don't know what. What does that even mean. It means that it means that her cheek. Hold it like what. I think that I think they just had to like keep it like an open fucking wound like and let it like almost like scab heel. Yeah

I look who knows I mean this is not this is not the fucking 1830s but yeah she had to keep her fucking cheek going. It officially is the 1830s. Yeah it's not far off. So it was becoming more evident to people that Chim that Nim was a fucking chimpanzee. Really yeah. With all that going on Terrace is teaching schedule and with what he was calling baby sitting problems. Oh my God. He eventually decided to bring Nim's tenure at Columbia to a close. Gotta go and wrap this up. He was shutting down the experiment. Well why not just let's put him out in the I guess just toss him in the river or whatever. Garbage night. Garbage night. That was it. Herb gathered all of the teachers and told them that was

a wrap. He said it was done and they were all heartbroken mainly because they all felt like while he was becoming violent while he was you know a an animal. Yeah he was learning. It was working. Sure. I mean yeah. Okay. So what if Nim Dave where do you put him. Where does he go. Is there a monkey. He's age five at this point. He's been raised by human. What about a zoo. He can't go to zoo. Dave. No because he's been around humans so he can't be around among other chimps. But zoos are terrible. Okay. So what about like a like a ranch for wayward chimps. It's amazing how close you're getting to some stuff. He was age five and he'd been raised by humans his whole life. That is all he knew. So Herb made

a call to Dr. Lemon at the Institute for Primate Studies. Okay. The same facility where Nim was born. The plan was to return Nim there. No that's like a fucking that is worse than a zoo. Back to Shawshank baby. Oh that's fucking worse than shot. Well they did close Shawshank because of all the Herb wrote in his 1979 book Nim. The regularities in our corpus that were noted before Nim returned to Oklahoma gave me reason to believe that Nim was creating primitive sentences. Our intensive post-Oklahoma effort at data analysis had hardly begun. However when I began to doubt that Nim's combinations were legitimate sentences. Terrace concluded that despite long strings of signs such as give orange, me give, eat orange, me eat orange,

give me, eat orange, give me you, Nim's actual sentences averaged 1.5 signs and were not sentences at all. Had Nim's learning ground to a halt or had he just gotten what he wanted with the longer strings of signs. Terrence concluded that Nim had never signed a true sentence. Oh my god. And many of Nim's individual signs immediately followed similar signs by his trainers. Close examination of his films convinced Terrace that Nim mostly imitated trainers often after prompting. Furthermore, Terrace analyzed films of other A-projects including Two About Wash U and concluded that in those projects too, trainers repeatedly prompted and then interpreted separate responses as sentences. What about Coco? What about Nim?

I mean, they're all like he's wrong. You can't just say all the fucking experiments are wrong. He is, his claim is that he found, yeah, his finding said that primates, chimps were unable to communicate. He's still alive. Okay, that's about it. If I had found the story, he would have died. Listen, I'm ready to go hurt him. He would have been airdropped over a jungle in Africa. Well, the good news is he's probably dating a 16-year-old. So they chartered a plane. Tell me monkey. They chartered a plane. They drugged Nim and they headed back to Oklahoma. Oh, perfect. When you wake up, this shit's gonna be so fucking weird. Man, let me tell you how bad drugs are, Nim. You're gonna come out of this shit

and you're gonna be in a fucking cage with your mom who doesn't know you. To be fair, he probably already shot heroin with Stephanie. He definitely did mushrooms and peyote with Stephanie. For sure, no doubt. Yeah. When they got there, Bill and Joyce were shocked. This was not what anyone thought it would be. There were a lot of chimps and they were all caged in. It was essentially a chimp jail. Now, keep in mind, Nim had never seen another chimp that wasn't his mother and he'd only seen her for like two days. Oh my God. That was a long time ago. He never saw another chimp. He never seen another chimp. All right. So you're a dude and you are now 15? Yes. Right? So you were taken away from your mother

and raised by turtles. Yeah. And so all you know is turtles. And then you get sent back to a, you get sent back to fucking Cochran. Yes. And they go, all right, have a good time. Yeah. It's like taking Mowgli from the Jungle Book and putting him in a public school. I'm being like, why is he not adapting? Why doesn't he like it? Wait, so did Bill and Joyce leave him there? Did they try to take him away? Well, okay. So they pull up, Joyce recalls her and them both thinking the exact same thing at the exact same time. Holy shit. What Herb Terrace politely called a more primitive facility than what I had remembered. Some fences were electrified. Fuck off, he remembered it. This fucking dude. Some fences were electrified

because of chimp on chimp killings. Some attendance at the facility had electric prodders to keep the chimps in line. It's just so different than what he's got. They didn't have a lady that bid ears. No, they didn't have a lady but a recess lady. No, no, no, no, they just had, they just had prods. All right. So in order to ease in Nim a little bit, they set up a chimp play date with a chimp named Mac. Mac and him, Mac was also a chimp who was like a little more withdrawn. So they actually got along okay, and Nim was starting to learn this is not over the course of months. This is the over the course of a day or a couple days. Right. So they felt like they had acclimated Nim enough to that facility. Bill picked

up Nim, took him into the facility, took him into a cage, tied his lease to the cage, shut the door and left. Nim was kept in his own small cage and he could be heard screaming as Bill left. Nim was on his own. He was given no special treatment. Oh my God. He was just one of the other chimps. He was extremely distressed. He bit a trainer and he was shocked with the prod. He was looked at by a spoil, like a spoiled child by some of the workers. Of course he was. They were like, look at fancy paint. Oh, here's Mr. I went to a private school. He's totally private school. Welcome to the real world, motherfucker. Bob Ingersoll, a graduate student at the University of Oklahoma, was working as a research assistant at the

primate facility and met Nim on his first day. You could read fear and apprehension through his facial expression and his body language. Ingersoll says it was very distressing to him and some of us were really worried about him and we spent quite a lot of time with him, making sure he was eating and drinking and not being picked up by the other chimps. Ingersoll was Nim's saving grace. After a year had gone by, Herb Terrace came back to the primate facility for a photo shoot with them. Nim was screaming and was so happy to see Herb. Herb thought Nim was totally happy to see him. In reality, Nim thought seeing Herb meant that he was going home. He wasn't. Later that day, Herb left and never came back.

It was the last time he would see him. That's too bad because Nim should get to kill him. I just snap his neck and maybe they see each other on a subway in 10 years. I'm just I'm just... I would love it. And then Nim just snaps his neck on the two and then he goes to fucking work. That'd be great. Yeah, I can see him functioning in the business world. Yeah, for sure. He's got he's definitely got what it takes to work for a hedge fund. He could definitely be on this celebrity apprentice. Nim was depressed. You're fired. Sorry, hired, hired, hired, hired, hired. Jesus. I mean, he's a terrible project manager. Nim was depressed. Somebody was sitting in and Ingersoll could tell. So he took further interest than Nim.

He immediately began using sign language of Nim to comfort him. He said the chimp was never aggressive around him and quickly became one of his good friends. It was easy to hang out with him, he says. He did for me the same thing that I did for him, which was make him feel comfortable and certain and familiar with the situation. Bob Ingersoll walked with Nim, but he didn't bribe him with treats and Nim loved Bob for it. Bob knew what the other workers with Nim had done. He could communicate. Herb was wrong. He was an idiot. He would tell you about the berries he found. He knew how to ask you to play specifically. He actually signed stone smoke time now to us first Ingersoll says we were shocked. Although we were familiar

with chimpanzees that did things like drinking and smoke cigarettes and that sort of thing. I'd never had a chimpanzee request weed from me. Cards. That was an eye opener. Smoke cards. Obviously, Bob got watch jerk. Watch jerk. Stephanie, watch cat cat cat. Dick cat. Dick smoke joint. Dick smoke joint. So obviously Bob got Nim stoned. Nim knew exactly how to smoke. Oh my God. The marijuana would chill them out. That was Laura. Oh yeah. Oh maybe Stephanie. Stephanie. No, not when he was a baby. Oh no, Stephanie. No, earlier I mentioned Stephanie was getting a hot. Yeah, she got him hot. She let him drink. She let him suck his her tits. So just like she did with her normal kids. Yeah, honestly, we're

was probably like, um, the chimp does everything and gets to smoke pot. Yeah, well, I get just get bit. I used to get blow jobs. I mean, used to Ingersoll and Nim spent much of their time together. The bond was extremely strong. Nim actually made a friend of his own specie while in there. No, a chimp named Lily who nim most likely fathered a child to fuck. Yeah. Things had finally balanced out. All right. But Dr. Lemon was coming under financial hardship. Oh fuck. Well, it's so weird because he runs like a gulag for chimps. You'd think the things would be good. That business would be booming. I don't know why they're not. It was like oil. He could no longer keep the primate facility open. Not knowing what to do, he decided to

sell all of the chimps. Nim was to be sold and moved this time to a Lemsip or a laboratory for experimental medicine and surgery primates. Shut up. Most of the work that would be done at this facility were vaccines. For instance, a chimp would be given hepatitis or AIDS and vaccines would be tested on him. Thankfully, nim was the only chimp with a restriction put on him. While his fellow chimps were to be slowly killed through experiments, nim was only to be used in language experiments. Oh my God. Still, it was worse than where he just was. He was in a new place in a small cage surrounded by six, six chimps that he sort of knew. So he went there anyway. Oh, he was still in there. Even though they couldn't

use the experiments on him. They could do sign experiments on him. So he was there. All of them were in there and he's in there too. It's crazy. They're just killing off a lot of the chimps just through terrible injections and these chimps get so sick and are clueless. They're unable to explain. And actually, what they were saying too is that in this facility, chimps knew signs. They knew how to say, not just nim, other chimps knew how to say like, hug, play, help, like shit like that. And so these fucking chimps are just losing their shit, just getting injected. So it's worse. I mean, where he was before, he could roam the property on a leash and Ingersoll was fucking pissed.

But he couldn't do anything. The only thing he could do was continue to hound the facility and he did. The main scientist there named Mahoney grew to hate Bob Ingersoll and his constant attempts to get nim out of there and give him guilt trips. So Ingersoll started going to the press, making phone calls, doing whatever he could and thankfully the press did actually listen to Bob. The story began to be heard. People knew what was actually happening. And then one day a lawyer, Henry Herman, caught wind of the nim story and decided this was a case for him. Fucking Henry Herman. He wanted nim to be represented in court as a human. He argued that nim had been raised as a human and he should get in his day in

court just like a human. Henry. His plan was to wheel in a cage much like the ones at the Lempstead facility and put nim inside of it. When nim was inside, he would most likely freak out and sign to them that he wanted to leave, thus proving that nim could communicate and was being held under unfair conditions. Thankfully, it never got that far. The facility hated all the media attention and immediately said they were going to release nim. See, Twitter. Twitter always works. Hashtag nim. So Ingersoll done it. He'd gotten nim out. Fuck yeah. But where to now? This is a great story. A great ending. I love descending. You can't put nim back into the brownstone. Don't know what to do. So before anyone could

really think it through and what would be right, a man named Cleveland Armory stepped in. Never a good name. Cleveland Armory was a prominent humorist and humanitarian. He founded the Fund for Animals in 1967. This was a facility where hurt or abused animals could go to get a second chance. A place where they will never have to fear again. Armory bought nim from the facility. Nim was to be sent to the Fund for Animals Black Beauty Ranch. The sign outside as you drive in reads, I have nothing to fear and hear my story ends, my troubles all are over, and I am home. Oh God. However, nim's troubles were not all over. Well, he's fucking crazy. The facility was mainly for equines. Horses, hooved animals.

I'm sorry. It sounded like you said horses. Yeah, no, it's basically a horse ranch. Okay. So like, this ranch, this ranch is essentially a place where there's one, you know, one-legged deer, horses that have been abused, and they have a great life. They are able to just... Because they're fucking idiots who just walk around eating. Well, and they can just, exactly. I mean, acres of land, that'll do. Yeah, they're fine. They're like, I'm gonna walk over here now. Yes. Nim was the first champ there. Champ, champ. Nim was the first champ there ever. Not only was he the first chimp there, he was the first creature that the people who worked there ever needed to walk on a leash. Nobody there knew anything about chimps.

Oh, good. Nobody knew how to take care of... This is gonna work out. So he was basically put in a solitary cage. Tell me this ends with him leading these people into battle. Obviously, he goes to battle against Herb like Caesar. Thank you. So he was put in a solitary cage. It wasn't like the other place where he was like, held in a small cage. It was like a big cage. There were toys, there were ropes, even a TV, but it was still a cage, and he was still alone. It's an upgrade, but it's still a shitty upgrade. It's essentially solitary confinement. He went from a studio to one bedroom, but it's not great. And he's alone. So it's solitary confinement. He wasn't happy. Nobody knows sign language. You can't talk

to anybody. No. He's probably signing there, and nobody gives a fuck. People know deer. Yeah, he knows why now. Why? Why? So he was not happy. The TV that they put in his cage he smashed. They put one higher up. He smashed it again. He became more and more withdrawn. And Ingersoll was again fucking pissed. He argued in letters to Cleveland that this was torture. He told them how terrible this was. It was captivity. And Cleveland responded by banning him from the ranch, and he told them if he ever came to the facility, he would be arrested. I told you Cleveland was a bad name, didn't I? You did. For a person. You did. It's fine for a city. It's not your person. His heart's in the right place. This dude's

heart is in the right place. He is. He is genuinely trying. He can handle deer. He wanted to help, but he just was a mess up. Keep away from fucking monkeys. So they're in him sat. He would sometimes sneak out of his cage and get into the ranch house. Sure. He wanted to see people. Get himself a cat. You know what I mean? Hold on. He wanted to see people or he wanted to sleep in a bed. One day he came to the ranch house and there was a poodle at the door barking as Nim went in. Break his neck. Nim picked up the dog, flung it into the wall, killing it. He another time came into the house and mad through a chair out the window. He was unhappy and he wanted everyone to know about it. It was around this

time that someone from our story earlier had a bright idea. God damn it, Stephanie. Stephanie Lafarge had heard about Nim and decided she wanted to visit him. I will say it's nice to see a prediction like it's refreshing. This is what I do. I sit over there and guess. Now I know what this is. I know what happened. Stephanie had heard about Nim and she decided she wanted to visit. I think you're thinking of something else. Oh really? Okay. Well, she bought plane tickets. I don't see how this can go wrong. Mother and son reunited it again. A mother that he loved who never turned her back on him and let him fuck any cat he wanted. She heard about Nim's situation and she wanted to see him. So she bought some

plane tickets and flew to Oklahoma to pop in for a visit with some members of her family. Just pop in. Pop in. The plan was to go to the ranch, meet the caretakers. However, when they walked up to Nim's cage. Can I just say something? It's bad enough putting a chimp in Oklahoma. True. True. So when they, when they walk up to Nim's cage, he recognized them, but he wasn't impressed. How could he be? They left a cute little chimp baby. Nim was now a grizzled full grown chimpanzee. Yeah. He was graying. He was miserable. He'd been hurt. Well, little interaction through the cage. Stephanie earned for more. Stephanie decided she wanted to go inside the cage and seen him. The caretakers told her that that

was a bad idea. He seemed like he was in a bad mood. I'm not going to miss her at all. But smart old Stephanie knew what she was doing. Yep. She walked in. She used to give him the tip. She used to give him the tip. She walked in and Nim immediately was pissed. He went up to the top of his cage. When she stayed in there, he came down from the top of his cage, grabbed her by the ankle and dragged her like a puppet. He swung, swung her around while the caretakers didn't know what to do. After abusing her for a while, they ran inside to get a gun. However, before they could return, Nim left her alone. He could have killed her, but he didn't. I think Giver was known as a warning. A what's for?

Yeah. A hurt's donut. Here's what I think of your shit. Yeah. He gave her the old hurt's donut. You know who doesn't have good Brooklyn memories? Yeah. Right here, Nim. Yeah. Nim's not on your tip. Imagine if we're one in the cage. He's wearing Weir's face and masturbating on Stephanie. We're worried for sure. He turned Stephanie into a cat. So 10 years went by. Holy fuck, really? In that time, Nim had actually been given a female friend that was put in the facility around him, but she was dying. Nim was going to be alone again. Ingersoll still was always on top of the story, caught word that the ranch was going to be sold. Jesus Christ. Out was Cleveland, and the new owner agreed to let Ingersoll visit Nim.

So Bob Ingersoll is going to see Nim for the first time in 10 years. When Nim saw Bob, he recognized him immediately. After a few minutes, they began signing. Nim showed some signs of happiness. He signed play and began running around the cage, and Ingersoll could tell that Nim was still around. But he wanted more chimps in there. He wanted Nim to have some sort of a life. But how? Around that time, the limb sip, where Nim had been kept for the experimenting, was shutting down. And one man decided to use this closure to make a difference, Mahoney, the head scientist from before who hated Bob Ingersoll. He now believed, after years and years of doing what he was doing, that not only was it wrong,

but the chimps could feel, the chimps knew what depression was, and that these chimps had gone through too much. Am I supposed to feel good for the Nazi who turned it around? So once an enemy of Ingersoll, Mahoney now wanted to help. He began secretly releasing some chimps to Bob. Total released 50-60 chimps. A secret chimp release. But he released two or three to Bob, who in turn got them to Black Beauty Ranch. Nim was reunited with two chimps from the past, Mitch and Lulu, where the others. Nim began to grow happier and happier, and Ingersoll spent lots of time by the cage signing and making them as happy as they could. They were still best friends. After all the time in harp chip, they were back together. Nim

lived like this for the next five years, until his death in 2000, when he died of a heart attack. He was 26 years old. The average age of a chimp is 50. Cleveland Armory passed away on October 15, 1998 at the age of 81. He's buried next to his beloved polar bear at Black Beauty Ranch in Texas. I don't like him at all. Let's end with a quote. Chimps don't need to be with humans. They need to have a chimp life. So my own personal need to hang out with them or walk with them wasn't as important to me as doing the right thing for them. Chimpanzees in captivity is just now where they ought to be. I hope that one of the lessons that we learned from Nim's life is that keeping chimpanzees in cages

is torture and really plays havoc on their mental health. Well, all I know is that after I've heard this story next week, I'm going to pitch a story to CBS called Chimp Life. Chimp Life. About a guy in a chimp just cruising around in a car. Yeah, but no, but we don't want any more chimps. Solving crimes. No, I mean, that would be tortured. Do you understand? A night they put him in a cage because when they put him in a cage, he really wants to solve crimes. And when they let him out, he fucks up the bad guys. What? I'm pitching an idea. It's good. I mean, I like the hook for sure. So he had five good years at the end after just living a life of five. Not even five good years. He had five relatively

good years. At the end, comparatively, comparatively, he had five good years. He had a couple of good years when he lived in the house. He had some good times in the brownstone. He had some good times in the mansion. He got to suck some titty in the brownstone. He got to suck some titty. But again, the whole thing here is this guy, Herb Terrace. He's a fucking piece of shit. Well, he's such a piece of shit. He's John Little. He's the guy who oversaw the dolphin experiment. Exactly. It reminded me a lot of that. Because that dolphin was tortured. Tortured. And you know, I obviously, yeah, I think it is important to remember that these animals experience emotion and are not. Now we're on a soapbox

sort of situation. Alright, I'll stop. But that's Nim. That's the life of Nim. I thought it was going to be the lady who got attacked by the chimp at the end. I was really hoping Stephanie got torn apart. No, well, Stephanie got the shit beaten out of her. Alright. Yeah. And I guess she deserved that. But the other lady got like her face torn off. Well, she didn't. I mean, that was just one of the teachers. The Laura got her head back. No, I'm talking about the chimp story I'm thinking of was the lady you got off. Oh, that lady got her face ripped off and that chimp got shot. Oh, that chimp did get shot. Yeah, that chimp got killed. Okay, that's a bad ending. Yeah, because, you know, how dare he. Once the chimp

takes off someone's face. Well, there's also that story. There was another story about a guy probably like 10 years ago who had a chimp and he went into the cage with birthday cake to celebrate his birthday. The chimp like ripped his arms off, ripped his face off and ripped off his genitals. So that's a good birthday for the chimp. It's a surprise party for someone. The dude who got his nuts yanked. So there's your reverse dollop, Dave. Now shut up about it. God damn it. It's not good on this end. It's not good on this end. It's a depressing one. I should have pointed that out. That's a really depressing one. It's really depressing. Yeah. But it's crazy. Yeah, it's completely fucking insane. The people

who just treat fucking animals. But you know, we've all that we've read stories that have treated humans like that, which is just people are just fucking monsters. There's something I don't know what it is. And I don't think it's everybody. But to me, there's something worse about doing it to animals. Like I feel like there's something more level playing field of the human. You do fuck, you know, there's so much fucked up stuff gets done to humans. But there's something. There's something worse about when you take advantage of like, what's more helpless? That's a more a more helpless creature, because they are more trusting. Yeah. You know, everything relates back to when I met the clock is

well, well, nobody wins. All right, I'll do another one in two and a half years. Jesus Christ. You're welcome. Utah. Fuck you. See you there. Yeah. How long was it? Oh, how long was it? Yeah, pretty long. Oh, yeah, not bad. What?