The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 325 - Billy Sipple - live

Episode Date: April 25, 2018

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine the life of Billy Sipple. Recorded live in SF. SOURCESTOUR INFO MERCH BY JAMES FOSDIKE

The Dallup will be on tour in March 2026. We are going to be in Buffalo on March 22nd. Then on the 23rd will be in Syracuse. Then on March 24th, we'll be in Boston at the Wilbur. Then on the 25th, we'll be in Bridgeport, and 26th the Gramercy Theater in New York. And then on the 27th, we'll be in Albany. And then on the 28th, we'll be in Pittsburgh. And then on the 29th, will be in Philadelphia.

And then on the 30th, we'll be in Washington, D.C., at the Lincoln Theater. Why would you name a theater after Lincoln? Anyway, that's our March 2026 tour. Go to dolloppodcast.com slash tour for tickets. Hey, you're listening to The Dollup on the All Things Comedy Network and called it, quote, his jam pad. Jam-Pap.

I'm the fucking hippo guy. Steve, okay. My name's Gary. My name's Gary. Is it for fun? And this is not going to come the Tiggly Podcast. Okay. This is like anarchy.

On a five-part coefficient. Five rooms. Now hit him with the puppy. You both present sick arguments. No, sleep tell hippo. Now sleep down, hip-o. Action, pardon? Hi, Gavi.

No. I sleep done, my friend. No. No. No. We have no idea where he went. I was backstage, and then I walked out, and then he... Gareth was just gone.

I thought he was in front of me walking to the stage, and then he was just gone. Yeah. We doing a show? How many have never heard the podcast before? Just that guy? Oh, an A's fan. Fuck that. That's where the term fucking A's comes from. Yeah. Oh, you're listening to The Dollop.

Oh, that's right. This is a biracial American history podcast. Once a week, I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to my friend. Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. November 20th, 1941. The last episode of your hair was fucking racist. A lot of racism.

This one is going to make you sad. Oh, dude, I, oh my God. I can't believe the last one wasn't the sad one. Oh, no. This one's sad. All right, let me gear up. Oliver Sipple was born in Detroit, Michigan to George and Ethel.

Oliver Sipple? Mm-hmm. All right. We can't really Just off the guy's name Oh yeah sorry Dave I found some of these names puzzling Yeah

Are we fighting? I think we might I don't know I would won't want George and Ethel had eight kids Of course as you Yeah Ethel was a devout Baptist

Sure George was a pipe fitter Of course I was gonna ask But I assumed he was Keep going Oliver had a normal childhood And became a star High School football player

Okay Everything's fine, everything's fine, yeah, I've heard the routine, Anthony. And no, he's a great football player. He's very good looking. He's very attractive. Everything's great. American dream.

American dream. Except... Uh-huh. There we go. He was dyslexic. Okay. And had a very hard time reading. You just made me look like an asshole. I did. Your tone even took a little sassp.

Wow, I can't believe how much of a dick you were to this. It was just a... Yeah, I mean, he had a reading disorder, Gareth, and you jumped all over him. Good Lord. So Oliver dropped out of high school in the 11th grade. I would like to say I'm sorry to Oliver. Soon he left home and made his way to New York City, and he moved into the West Village. Okay.

He developed what was called a Roddy McDowell look. What exactly does that mean? Looks like Roddy McDowell. Okay. He did the hair and the clothes like right at McDowell. I get maybe from a clockwork orange. He walked around with a white and cane. But Oliver was very unhappy.

He was unhappy that he couldn't read well and that he dropped out of high school. And he was unhappy that he was gay, something he could not tell his family. Oh, boy. Did you literally do a gulp take? Yep. The best in the business.

period. He's the only guy I hired a gulp. Audio was. In New York, Oliver's friends called him Billy. Sure. Yeah, that's simple. Yeah. But no, that's how you treat friends.

You'll be Billy. We're all Billy. So now he's Billy. Billy met a guy named Joe Campbell. Wait, is he Billy from now on? Yeah, we'll be calling him Billy. It's his chosen name. He chose the name.

I'm not going to fucking call him Oliver if he's called himself Billy. I'm not going to call a Billy Oliver. His friends called him Billy and he was like, okay. You made fun of his name right at the bat, so he fucking called himself Billy. Look, I'm into the... I'm into the address note. I'm into it. I like it.

Billy met a guy named Joe Campbell and the two fell in love. Joe was a friend of Andy Warhol and the inspiration for the sugar plum fairy in Lou Reed's 1972 song Walk on the Wild Side. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Joe had recently ended a seven-year relationship with a man named Harvey Milk.

Okay. Harvey was seen as a bit square for the West Village. You don't hear that too often? Yeah, okay. Interesting. The three men often went out together and spent time in West Village, gay bars. But New York's life, the New York Life wasn't working for Billy and Joe, so they decided to move to Fort Lauderdale.

Okay. You know what? The name change I can get behind, the city change I can't handle. No, it's a terrible idea. We'll be happy at Fort Lauderdale. No one said ever. Only people from Tampa have been like Fort Lauderdale.

Could you imagine? Oh my God, the dream. That's just a dream. Forget it, kid! You're Tampa Barn, Tampa Forever! I'm sneaking out and going to the big city. Fort Lauderdale. Land of palm trees and strip clubs.

I mean, a few less strip clubs in Tampa. Oh, yeah. you'll be back Tampa boy Tampon But once there The two men couldn't find jobs Okay

Milk wrote them letters Telling them they weren't using their money wisely And to make better decisions Love that guy Always love that guy Yeah yeah Anyway hope you well Bye

Harve You're fucking up Quote No one is going to hold your hands Any longer But Harvey Milk still did He kept sending them money whenever they were desperate. Here's my hand.

Billy and Joe ran out of money in 1965, and Harvey Milk flew down and gave them money to pay their rent. But the couple... Did he have to fly there to do it? I don't know how money worked back then, but... Well, look, the president doesn't understand how the post office works, so it's sort of whatever, I guess. You had to physically...

You would have to put in an envelope and send it. in a check form back then. Right. Sounds a little easier than a flight. It probably costs the same. I think Harvey just wanted to see Fort Lauderdale. I think so.

Oh, it is garbage. Okay. But the couple wouldn't make it much longer. One day, Billy grabbed the few things he owned and left and flew home to Detroit. Distraught and abandoned, Joe went to New York and tried to kill himself. Shit. Yeah, well, you try to have Billy walk out on you

and see how it works. Now Harvey Milk was confused that Joe would try to kill himself over a guy like Billy who milk thought wasn't very bright So now Billy's back in Detroit And he doesn't have a high school degree And he can't read very well And there was a war happening in Vietnam So he's like, I should do that

So he enlisted in the Marines Is anybody advising him in anything? You know, at Fort Lauderdale didn't work out I think I'll join the Marines I think war's the answer. It's the same thing, kind of. Yeah. What happens after war?

I think I'm going to move to the sun. Go live there for a little while. Just get shot up there in a rocket, camp out for a while. Make a year of it. So in June 1968, he was sent to Vietnam. During a battle in a village, he was wounded by shrapnel, and he ended up in a hospital in Saigon for a few months. Okay.

But the hospital was bombed. And Billy suffered more injuries. Oh, shit. I mean, that's just a bummer. I really do feel security in a hospital. Like, maybe not for your health, but that, like, you're not, like, if you're there for a wound, you won't get a bigger wound. Just not on the radar as possible. So then he was classified as fully disabled.

And besides his physical injuries, he had what was called shell shock in England during World War I or what we now call PTSD. During Vietnam, it was just a psychological injury. So he was discharged with a full disability pension in 1970. So at this point, not sure what happened. He probably went back to Detroit. He can't find any records on him. So now let's discuss what it was like to be a gay man in the 60s. Oh, yeah.

I'm sure this will be like... In early 70s in America. Pretty great. Pretty great. Pretty great. Pretty great. Pretty great. Talk about fucking living the gilded life like fucking sweet.

Mental health professionals Considered homosexuality That's a good start As far as the acceptance rate Yep They considered homosexuality To be a mental illness Sure

It was listed by the American Psychiatric Association In their DSM As much until 1973 In the 50s and early 60s Men were so disturbed by their actions to other men

Attractions to other men And actions I assume Hello Hello That they would seek psychological help. It was illegal to serve gays alcohol in New York until 1966.

Oh my God. What the fuck? Well, if you serve them alcohol, then they start fucking or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to give you a shot, Jimmy. Uh-huh. But if I give you a shot, you got to promise not to fuck any other guys. I won't fuck any guys. No, I just want a shot?

Here. Here. Okay. I'm going to go get a dick. God. What? What? What? That's why it's illegal. You know what happened if you gave me a shot? Give me another one. I'll get rid of it. I'll be better if you give me another one. Here.

Okay. Oh, I want your dick. No. Give me another one. I'll get back. Let's get back. All right. So obviously, you know, 60s or the 60s.

A lot of upheaval, social upheaval. The LGBT community decided to fight back. And in 1969, the Stonewall riots, obviously a huge moment. America's first pride praids were held in New York, L.A. and San Francisco in June 1970. And in New Orleans, the upstairs lounge was burned down on June 24th, 1973, killing 32 people.

Someone had soaked the staircase leading to the bar in lighter fluid and set it on fire. Oh, shit. It was the deadliest attack on LGBT people in U.S. history and the biggest fire death toll in New Orleans history. So New Orleans has their biggest fire ever. Not much to be said about it. Churches turned away the dead for funeral services. Some families did not even claim the dead.

No government officials made mention of the fire. The mayor said nothing. The governor said nothing. It was like it never happened. One reverend agreed to hold a small prayer service for the victims and 80 people attended. Then the Episcopal Bishop of New Orleans rebuked the reverend for hosting the service. He got over 100 complaints from parishioners. His mailbox filled with hate mail, editorials, and talk radio mocked the victims.

They were jokes like... Oh, Jesus Christ, Dave. Can I have a second? Let me... Where do you bury the ashes in the fruit jar? On the radio. Yeah, America's good. No police investigation.

So, they just were like... Then it happened. Basically, even though a guy had gotten into a fight in the bar and left after yelling, I'm going to burn this place down. And they knew who the guy was, and they never investigated. Did he say anything telling at any point? Lead anyone to suspect him of anything?

Was there, were there any tells, I guess? No. I mean, it's truly a mystery what happened. Right. Okay, well, you know, they happen. You know, they made a show about him. So the life of a gay man, the life of a gay man was basically considered nothing by society.

So gay He's began to fight for their rights and demand basic decency. This is when Billy Sippel moved to San Francisco. And there was a growing LGBT community. He may also move there because Harvey Milk had moved there the year before. The city was one of the few places in the world where someone like Billy could feel comfortable. A place where he could go to a doctor's office. Most of the patients in the waiting room would be gay.

A friend said, quote, He was perfectly open about his sexual orientation and would tell anybody who asked that he was a gay man, but he never told his family. Bummer. With his military pension, he lived decently in a small apartment and he shared with a merchant marine

in the tenderloin. As a lot of us did back then. Get yourself a merchant marine. Get yourself a sweet place in the loin. Well, you just said your college roommate was at the show before this. Was he a merchant marine? Yep.

Yep, sure. Didn't we all have a merchant marine? roommate? No, that's what they do on the tour. They'd be like, obviously, it is a walk-in closet, radiator. There's your merchant marine. There's a merchant marine right there.

Hi, Barry. At ease. Thank you, sir. I look forward to you signing the lease, sir. All right. At ease, boys. I'm a little worried about the parking, though. Is there street parking or is there gated?

I'm talking to you, Marine. Is there any sort of parking? here? Provisional to speak freely. Oh yes, there's parking. Okay, thank you. All right. Well, I'll figure it out. See you later. Billy earned

extra money as a swamper in gay bars. A swamper? You bet. Talk to me, Dave. A swamper is a person who cleans up at the end of the night. Cleans up the bar. Okay. Right?

Right? Yeah. He worked at the cockpit. A bar in the tender horn? Sort of an aviation-themed... Yep. Aviation-themed? Yep.

Co-pilots on the landing gear again. The cockpit was managed by a drag queen named Sweet Lips. He also cleaned up at other bars like the Red Lantern and the Gangway. Okay. And Gangway is still there? I used to live near the Jazz.

Jack Hammer. Is Jack Hammer still there? Jack Hammer is my favorite name. Isn't the Castro? I don't know. Cockpit's pretty good. Cockpit's pretty good. A cockpit's so obvious. I mean... I mean, having, you know, it's a great aviator bar, you know. So, Billy drank. Of course. And he drank a lot. Why would you not? Yeah. Friend Wayne Friday.

Wayne Friday. He's on Dragnet. Because in here, it's Friday. Wayne. It's always Friday. Wayne. Quote, he was a good guy. He was just a fucking alcoholic. Well, that's what you want from the guy

cleaning up your establishment at the end of the night. The drunkest guy like mopping around. Just drinking the mat. Yeah, just like mopping the floors he pukes on the other side. Oh, Gizzy shit, I'm a swamper. Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy. Billy, no.

I used to be named Oliver. What? I was Oliver. once. What hell is he talking about? Fort Lauderdale with flamingos. Fort Lauderdale. And Joe. I was Oliver before Lauderdale.

And as a Marine. Can I drink the mats now? Drink the mats, Oliver. Drinking the mats. Hey, I don't want to be weird, but can I drink the mats? That's the best thing to do when you're going to a bar. What do you need, man? I was just wondering if I gave you $5, can I drink the mat?

Who are you here with? Nobody. I haven't talked to anybody. This is the first word I've said in five years. Can I, you have five dollars? Let me drink that map.

Oh, we'll keep your eye on that guy. That's the guy who tries to drink the mats. I'm a Swamper! Oh, boy. On the next episode of Swamper. Let me guess. He drinks the mats. He drinks the mats.

Okay. All right. So, quote, he was a good guy. He was just a fucking alcoholic. I mean, he'd get his disability check once a month. and then he'd go down to one of the bars and the tenderloin. I swear to God, he'd spend the whole fucking check on everybody

and he'd get broke the rest of the month. He just couldn't control himself and he was a little bit of a blowhard you know. He'd get drunk and loud and he'd get tossed out of bars. He'd be drunker than hell at a bar and I'd drive him home. What was the first line of what he said in his quote? He's a good guy. Okay. Just wanted to

harken. Okay. A lot of little mini sub points to that though. He's a good guy, you know, but he gets thrown out of every bar. I mean, he wouldn't shut up. He'd punch a lot of beer. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. You stab my friend. He's a good guy, though. He's a great guy. Bit of a blowhard. Terrible cleaner.

A bit of a dick, if I have memory serves. So Harvey Milk ran for supervisor, and Billy helped the campaign handing out literature, helping with voting registration and other stuff. But Billy didn't really appear all that interested in milk's issues and didn't seem to have a passion for gay politics. Okay. Well, that's probably going to affect his spirit in the campaign. Yeah. He was more of a guy who wanted to help out his old friend, but Milk's projects became the center of Billy's social life.

Billy joined the imperial court system. So it's... It's a gay organization that helps the community and raises money for charitable causes. Okay. Lots of dressing up. Each year an emperor is crowned. Sure, as is the history, the lore. We found a new emperor. Billy was pretty heavily involved, but Billy was still having a hard time due to the war. Loud noises made him nervous.

Oh, boy. If someone brought up Vietnam, he'd get anxious. Quote, I don't think I could handle it every day. I'd be fine for a while, then somebody might say something to me, and boom. Then he'd disappear to the VA hospital to get treatment. He'd spend every 4th of July there away from the fireworks. Oh, shit.

That's crazy. Yeah. I never thought about that, but that would make sense. Yes, that would make a lot of sense. I mean, I just, yeah, go ahead. He'd like to take long walks around this city. And on September 22nd, 1975... He'd just been lost.

And was embarrassed about it. Yeah. On September 22nd, 1975, he left his apartment on the 700 block of Venice and headed to fishermen's... Gwarf. At a post and Taylor intersection, he saw that a huge crowd of about 3,000 people had gathered. He asked someone in the crowd what was going on, and the person responded, quote, What's the matter with you, stupid? Sorry, sir?

You're a fucking idiot. Okay. Wow. I don't think I'll ever talk to someone I don't know again. Okay, stupid. You fucking idiot. It starts with stupid. Yeah. What's the matter with you, stupid? I have a question that an idiot won't answer.

Walk, I'm walking. Okay, you fucking idiot. Stupid. Stupid wants to know what's happening. Someone else then told him they were all waiting to see President Ford come out of this St. Francis Hotel. Okay. And Billy thought, quote, Ah, you know, the guy's from Michigan.

I've never seen him in person. I thought I'll stick around, you know, so I can see him. what he looks like. Oh, my God. He's quite a sight to behold, so it's worth it. I want to hang around to see Ford. Oh, he is literally

the basic white man. Wow. He is, what a white man. I picture him when someone says white man. Hi. Wow, that's Ford.

Wow. He really is a nothing. I just realized looking at him that I've seen lots of pictures of him. He looks just like the Ford.

from the pictures. Yeah. He looks the same. Yeah. All right. I believe it. That's Ford. What the hell am I?

So Billy starts working his way up to the crowd. Hey, I want to get a look at this guy. I'm really into this now. Well, he's from Michigan. I'm from Michigan. He's for Michigan. Okay. Got to get a look.

Yeah, no. He's for sure. I should go, I could go meet Paul Ryan right now. I'm from Wisconsin. I would have a couple things to say to him, actually. Yeah. He chained smoke as he made his way

through the crowd. It definitely sounds like an assassination. At one point he's, at 1 p.m., he's very close to the front. And he found himself standing next to Sarah Jane Moore. Sarah, quote, it was very crowded and there was a rope barrier. I was just like every other middle-aged woman

that was there. I was wearing slacks. Okay. That was the beginning of when it was natural for women to wear slacks. Okay. Anyway. No, no, no. Sarah, we all want to talk to you.

Do you work for slacks? I don't work for slacks. You're talking a lot about slacks. Women like slacks now. I am a slacks woman. Every woman there was wearing... Slacks. Slacks!

Every woman there was wearing slacks. Did you look behind you? I didn't need to because everyone was wearing slacks. All right. You work for slacks. So. Welcome to Slack Town, motherfucker. Oh, no.

President Ford, strangled by slacks. I felt a man press up against me, and I spun around to slap his face. When I looked at him, I realized that it was just the crowd pressure, and then he had not done anything out of the ordinary. So I turned back around and went about my business. Okay. Let's get to some exciting stuff. Sarah, we've enjoyed the ride.

The first act of the quote is dynamic, but where are we headed? Well, the man she bumped into was Billy Sibble. Okay. Sarah was five times divorced and had four kids. I've got it all. Three of her children have been adopted by her mother, once to live with her, her nine-year-old boy. Her neighbors in the Mission District said she had fits or rage

and once locked herself in an office. Okay. She had a hard time keeping a job and was active in civil rights and leftist causes. All righty. She was also an informant for the FBI. Interesting.

That explains the slacks. Everyone wears them. What? It's normal. I don't work for the FBI. No. I'm just a regular lady wearing slacks like the rest of the gals.

A badge? Yeah, I might have a badge in my bag. Oh gosh. Us girls in our slacks and our badges and our guns. Sera was also friends with people who were close to the Symbionese Liberation Army who had kidnapped Patty Hurst. Sure, sure, sure. Now, Patty had just, the trial was happening for Patty at this point.

But Sarah decided she had to make a break with the FBI to bolster her radical credentials. What is her plan? Does she have a five-year plan? Do everything. She pushed for newspaper interviews to tell her story in which she, admitted she was an FBI informant. Uh-huh. And then the FBI cut her loose because she told her when she was an informant.

No, they don't like that. And all the lefty radical groups now knew she was a snitch. Yeah. What was her plan? I want to make nobody like me. At the local lefty coffee shop hangout, they started calling her the FBI lady. Oh, my nightmare. I need to buy a dress.

That'll solve all this. they don't like slacky Sarah but summer dress Sarah has a shot oh god I was saying that out loud earlier in the year Sarah had been evaluated by the secret servants but the agents decided she was in no danger to the president

the day before Ford came she called up the San Francisco Police Department and said she was considering a test of the president's security system oh what the fuck yeah can you give us that address real quick where you're at just grab it a address dress cross street to be fine

so the cops brought her in and they took away her 44 caliber revolver at 113 rounds of ammunition regular that's just walking around bullets it's just all that is then we all have a little pocket ammo

and then the Secret Service came down and determined she was not a threat okay so she might have actually been testing them excuse me uh, man? Yes. We're not good at our jobs.

That stands out. You're free to go. Can I take these two guns that aren't mine? Yeah. Thank you. She was released and she went to Danville and bought another gun. All righty. That's the best to take it a gun in America.

We're not a lot of gun. It's like taking a pencil away. I'll go get a hundred more right now. No problem. At 3.30, Ford came out of the hotel and waved the crowd. Hey, I'm white. I'm whatcha picture. Oh my God.

He looks so much whiter in person. Look at him. I'm average. The day was September 22nd, 1975, just 17 days after Lynette Squeaky Fromm had attempted to shoot President Ford. So naturally, they let him close to a giant crowd in San Francisco. Ford doesn't suffer from any PT. He's like, let's do it again. It can't happen twice.

You know what I think they should do? They should get on their hands and then they could sort of carry me out to the car. I'll crowd surf to the car. President Ford. So Billy was looking at Ford, but out of the corner of his eye, he saw a flash of metal. Sarah Jane was holding a 38. She later said she wondered if she'd have enough time to pick up her nine-year-old son from school after she shot the president. Hi, honey, how was your day?

Oh, oh, you're learning geometry? I shot the president. Woo! Mommy has issues. And it's all because of these pants. They're actually called slacks. I'm changing it up. Everybody's doing it.

Anyway, I shot... She starts wearing slacks on her arms. I walk around on all fours. I'm a slack monster. I don't work for the FBI anymore. I'm a dog with slacks. The president's more red now than white. Sarah said Ford looked directly at her and waved.

Hello. Oh, he's asking for it. He's asking for it. Quote, then I reached my right hand into my purse and pulled out my gun. I took aim right at Gerald Ford's head and shot. But Mr. Ford did not fall. after I fired the shot he stopped cold

and I did have time for a second shot but I never planned on a second shot it's weird that's a weird thing about when you're trying to kill someone

you shoot and then you're like fuck what about plan B what do I do now you need that time to sort of I wish I had my 113 other bullets it's not a musket

oh well that's that that's the end of that chapter Billy Billy's right there and he yelled quote That bitch has got a fucking gun. All right. Always one for a quote. That bitch has got a fucking gun.

All righty. That was right before she shot. She shoots a misses. She's about 40 yards away from Ford. And he just stood there? He was like, whoa. Yeah, he was freaked out because, you know, he's like, this can't be happening again.

It just happened two weeks ago. So she aims again, and then Billy dives towards and grabs her arm, which caused the next shot to go astray, right? So it flies off. And it ricochase and hits John Ludwig, who's a 42-year-old taxi driver. The bullet did not penetrate his skin.

He said it was like being hit with a rock near his groin. Which, by the way, I usually pay for. But this time, it just came from out of fucking nowhere, and I came like, a racehorse. It's hard to find where the wound is. Oh, no. Was it good for you guys?

Very specific. I would describe it as a rock hitting my groin. Is that good for everyone? Hey, Ford, when are you coming back, man? Because this was awesome. I needed a nap. Did Gerald Ford go out again after this? Probably, yeah.

Foolish. I wouldn't have, but yeah. Never. No, you didn't be right. So Secret Service, they push forward into his limo. And in seconds, they go straight to the fucking airport. They're like, go, go, go. We're late for the flight.

Now, Billy, Sarah Jane, and Ludwig were all grabbed by the Secret Service. At first, they thought Billy was a suspect, and they were aggressively interrogating him, which is not great for a guy from Vietnam with PTSD. So he's quivering and freaking out, and he's chain smoking. he did not have clear answers for why he was there because he clearly had no reason other than... He's from Michigan, I'm from Michigan. You guys get that, right?

He's white. He's white. White guy, right? This is when your Michigan-Michigan plan gets the smell test. So you wanted to go up that close out of nowhere because you figured out he was from Michigan? Michigan. Michigan. Right.

Right? Wrong. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's like a glove. And then in this part, there's white guys. Down here there's white guys. And then these guys go, hey, what do you like? And then this guy goes, I'm white.

And then there's a president. Why are you wearing mittens? Oh, I usually have a clips. A clipped, yeah, okay. That's what I thought. They'll put them in. Okay. So.

Who invented mittens? Were mittens invented after gloves? Because if so, that's fucking crazy. Yeah. I agree. Who is bringing that idea to the party after gloves? You know, I think we're able to use our fingers a little too much. What if we just had one big lump and then a thumb?

Better, right? Shouldn't they get wet really easy, too? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, the worst. Let's make them the worst. Yeah. So, Billy just said he had wandered there. Which again, just sounds nuts. Is that not a good...

But after a while, the Secret Service understood what had happened, and they became thankful of his actions. And Billy was very modest. They took down his information, and he was let go. Billy said, quote, don't mention any of that stuff about me being in the Marines. He said that to the Secret Service. Okay. Later, Jamie Gonzalez, who worked in the hotel garage, said, quote,

I didn't think a lady would do something like that. maybe someone else, but not a lady. But again, the ladies are wearing slack, so all fucking... Yeah. Like, the whole thing's topsy-turvy at this point. Now, ladies are shooting presidents. Yeah, yeah, slacked ones. I mean, it's very crazy.

It's hard to wrap your head around. Afterwards, Billy went to a gay bar called the Red Lantern. He was the hero of the night, and people kept buying him drinks. The news that a gay man had saved the president's life spread throughout the Castro. Milk congratulated Billy on his feet. Joe had moved to San Francisco, and he was at the bar too. Milk's political career was based on the premise that gays were the next group of Americans that need to be incorporated into mainstream America,

and now he had a man who proved gays could be heroic. Well, hold on. Yeah, you can't get clap happy a quarter of the way through the dollar. What? But I clap for that person. Why did you get them away with me? Now at the time there happened to be a shitload of reporters in San Francisco because the police had just captured Patty Hurst.

Okay. Who goes on to marry Chris Hardwick. That's right. No one knew anything about Billy. Rumors swirled. Some said he was homeless. Others said he was an alcoholic. But it's all good rumor stuff.

All right, he's homeless. No, he's not. He's just a crazy alcoholic now. Back in. In Detroit, Billy's brother, George and his father worked at the Ford factory, and their fellow workers congratulated the American hero and bought them drinks during workday breaks. I forgot about that. So back in the day, you would just go get, you would just go drink at a bar on your break. Just working out in cars.

Oh, no. Eight headlights. I don't remember the last hour. What's the worst that could happen? Oh. I mean, seriously. Zoom. Ah.

Oh, I had a hand. Oh, my God. Who's buying me drinks? I got one hand. Martini's and then operating heavy machinery. I dropped a sawblade into Eric. What? We're shit-faced.

What? We need a new Eric. And we're going to build one of the headlights. Better times, though, right? Yep. So Harvey Milk decided that America, should know that the man who saved President Ford was gay. Herb Kane was a gossip columnist who everyone in the city read every day.

He'd had a column since 1938. He was a city institution. So milk tipped off herb. Milk's advisors thought what he was doing was appalling. But milk did not care. Quote, it shows that we do good things, not just all that caca about molesting children and hanging out in bathrooms. I mean, if you say caca and bathrooms,

yeah. It doesn't work as well. No, yeah, you've got to be careful, yeah. Caca. Caca. I'm a grown-up. This is caca. Two days after the attempt on Ford's life,

Herb Cain wrote in his column, quote, one of the heroes of the day, Oliver Billy, the ex-Marine who grabbed Sarah Jane Moore's arm, just as her gun was fired, and thereby may have saved the president's life, was the center. of mid-eyed detention at the Red Lantern, a Golden Gate Avenue bar he favors.

The Reverend Ray Boucher's, head of the Helping Hand Center and Gay Politico Harvey Milk, who claimed to be among Sibyl's close friends, described themselves as proud. Maybe this will help break the stereotype. Siple is among the workers in Milk's campaign for soup. The day after King's column,

George and his father went to work at the Ford Factor. But Billy was now national news after a huge sensational L.A. Times story. The L.A. Times headline read, quote, Man Who Saved Ford Link to Gay Group. Oh, Jesus Christ. Good headline. Nice. Nice.

Good time. I love Link to. Yeah. Also that that matters. Link to gay. So, I think we have a Richard Jules situation. hands over here. I'll be honest with you. It's more like, well, I guess it, well,

didn't happen, I guess. The backslaps... We're kind of mad at him now. Yeah, the backslaps of the factory were suddenly over. The other Ford workers yelled at the Sipples about their faggot Oliver and laughed at them. Billy's mother Ethel was now rejected

by her friends at church. She had gotten from feeling amazing pride in her son to total confusion and disgust. The celebration had lasted three whole days. the family. Reporters were now camped on Ethel's front lawn and the neighbors were harassing her.

They were like throwing rocks at her and shit. Like some crazy fucking medieval. Biblical times. Yeah. Or Detroit. I forgot where we were. Sorry. They said there was no way Billy could have been a movie. I think that's a game in Detroit actually.

What? Rock tag. You're it. I don't have an eye. None of us have eyes. Her neighbors said there was no way he could have been a Marine. Billy's siblings started losing friends. In response to the LA Times questions about his sexuality,

Billy said, quote, I don't think I have to answer that question. If I were homosexual or not, doesn't make me less of a man. So Milk also pushed another narrative. He said Billy had not been personally thanked by Ford because he was gay. Jesus Christ. Yeah. He's really stirring. He's working it. Yeah.

This was an easy case to make because the year before the Air Force had kicked out Leonard Matlovich, who had a bronze star in Purple Heart after admitting he was gay. Could you imagine a time when they didn't like gay people in the military? It's so long ago. This obviously wasn't a time of the internet. A man could live openly gay in San Francisco

and not even worry that his relatives would find out in Detroit. Right. Yeah. Billy lived in a gay neighborhood with another man. His name had appeared in gay publications like Data Boy, Pacific Coast Times, and the Mail Express. Data Boy's great. I love Data Boy

I read Mail Express It's good too, yeah Mail Express Nice M-A-E Yep Okay You bet you

Fucking ain't right Sorry I believe there was a mix-up I wanted the one about How to label packages Another mix-up No, I should be more clear Um So Billy would tell anyone in San Francisco

he was a gay man, but he never said a word about it to his family, and he was actually a very private person. Now his family found out through the press that he was gay, the best way to find out. Yeah, totally. On nobody's terms. That's the best way to do it. Well, they used to have a page in the back, who's gay

in your town. Yeah. You would flip through it. Yeah. Yeah, you just take out an ad. It's the obituaries, weddings, who's gay? Okay. Bill, he held the press conference with the Baptist minister and his lawyer, John Wall. Who held a... Billy did.

Now Billy's, you know, it's out there, so he's trying to get it. Quote, I want you to know that my mother told me today she can't walk out of her front door because of the press stories. The fucking, the press conference is such a bummer because he's dyslexic. So as he's reading, he's not good in front of people, obviously. Well, this is also not just, this is not giving a speech at a town hall. This is like, like coming out. So while he's reading his speech, his lawyer. has to keep reading the bigger words

for him. My sexual orientation has nothing to do with saving the president's life, just as the color of my eyes or my race has nothing to do with what happened in front of the St. Francis Hotel. Suddenly people across the country were referring to him as a gay hero. His mother and father said

they loved him, but they couldn't handle the new information. Both stopped talking to him and when Billy called his mother, she would just hang up. Fuck. That's white. Let the president die. I can't Dave, Dave. I can't stress this enough.

Not worth it. Not worth it. Not worth it. I think a take no one had. Let her see this through. She's been thinking about this a lot. You just have a Michigan buddy. That's all you have.

Let's remember what brought us there. You got a Michigan brother. Michigan Bales. We're from the same state. Imagine. So when Billy was asked by a journalist if he was gay, he refused to respond. Then Billy sued Herb Kane, The Chronicle, and six other newspapers for invasion of privacy and asked for 15 million. Okay.

Nice. Nice. Yeah, that's high. He alleged that, quote, the papers published private facts. by disclosing that Sipple was homosexual in his personal and private sexual orientation. He said what the papers had done led to his family abandoning him.

I mean, truly, you cannot put a price tag on nothing you've directly done causing your mother to have rocks thrown at her and now she won't talk to you. So 15 mil seems cool. Can we do that but with my dad? How does that work? I don't think we can go for 15 mil.

I think what we can do is go for 2 mil and a bunch of cigarettes. Can we just get to the part where people throw rocks at my dad? Again, I think it has to be an organic thing. I really do. I don't think we can just kind of inflate and get that. I mean, unless you and I want to go over there and throw some rocks at your dad,

which I'm not saying no to at all. I'm like, I'm open to anything right now. Yeah, okay. If you stoned your dad. He sends you an email. Hey, man, I'm sorry, I've been in touch. Got stone two weeks ago. Threw me for a loop.

This was like, So the Chronicle offered him $100,000 to drop the lawsuit. Okay. His lawyer advised him not to take the settlement. Who is his lawyer? Who is this man? His lawyer is another... Is he the host of the prices right?

Go for what's in the box, Bill. Door two. Door two. Doer. Keep pushing. But he's obviously... No deal! We want to see what's in case nine. A dollar. He's just like a vampire standing next to him.

So... But this is another... person who's using him. Right. Right. He's just getting his name out there by taking this case. Right. So he wants more of this. The lawsuit cost Billy friends in the gay community who thought it made him seem like he was

ashamed of being gay. Soon after, Billy got a letter from President Ford. Meet me out back. I have feelings. I feel weird. You brought up some stuff.

That'd be great if he wanted to do it in person. Want to drink? What is this? I'll meet you at the cockpit. He keeps saying, I mean, I don't mind the place, but I did think it was aviation themed. So this is the cockpit, huh? Mind if I take my presidential shirt off? So this delighted Billy.

Billy's very excited. He's a fucking Marine. He's a patriotic Michigan guy. It read, quote, I want you to know how much I appreciated your selfless actions last Monday. The events were a shock to us all. but you acted quickly and without fear for your own safety. By doing so, you help to avert danger to me and others in the crowd.

You have my heartfelt appreciation, sincerely Jerry Ford. Billy sent a copy to Milk with a note, quote, to Harvey, a good friend, Oliver W. Sipple. Uh-oh. He never spoke to Milk about his role in outing him, and it's very, very possible Billy never knew Milk at any partner. Right. It kind of feels, that's just the general vibe because he just goes right after all the papers without mentioning it. Yeah, I don't think he had any idea who had done it, particularly a friend.

So, but this is also Gerald Ford like being a good guy. So he's seeing all the attacks and he's actually trying to do something and help help him out. Goes great. Harvey Milk was elected to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in 1977 and then assassinated. in 1978. We've all seen the movie. It's great because we get Feinstein. Billy went...

Uh-oh. Someone's in pants, slacks. Billy went to Milk's funeral and sat in the area for his friends. Milk's friends were surprised by how much weight Billy had put on. That's always fun to hear. Oh, you're fat now, huh, Billy? Holy shit.

Man! Hey, big boy Did you settle with donuts? What's going on over here, Billy? Billy's mother died in 1979. There was a report that she said she never left her house again after learning Billy was gay.

Holy shit. That's a bit much. That might be true. Fucking drive to the mall. The mall? I mean, Jesus Christ. Dude, if you get stone leaving your house four times, you're like, I'm out, I'm done.

I know, but zero fucking sympathy for someone who's like, My son's gay. I'm never leaving the house. Fuck off. If it's for that reason, if it's from fear of rocks, I'm a little more understanding. I think people I think people went through rocks in her for a few days.

Oh, sorry. You're right. She has rock PTSD. Billy started hitting the sauce really hard at this point. Wasn't he hitting the sauce really hard prior? Double down. Oh, boy. Quote, I have a lot of stress.

and I take it out on booze. Okay. But is this about my dad? What happened? Did I flip scripts? He would, he'd go on to gay bars on Polk Street and complain to his friends

about what Herb Kane had done. Quote, I fought in Vietnam with the Marines and I got hurt and now I'll be remembered for just being a faggot. So it's good. Other times he would make up battlefield heroics and say he had been a colonel.

Interesting. It's interesting the way trauma man is pest itself with inside yourself. I was in charge of it all. I'm Vietnamese. I fought on the other side. You believe that? Harvey Milk was my dad. Guess who shot the president?

Me. I did. Squeaky from. So this is how his life went for a decade. Holy shit. And all that time has lost. made its way through the courts, that $15 million lawsuit.

But he didn't have much of a case. He was very open about being gay in San Francisco, and that fact was known by hundreds of people in different cities, and in 1984, the California Supreme Court decided against Billy in his lawsuit. The court also found that the outing did not constitute sensational prying, but was motivated by legitimate political considerations, i.e. to dispel the false public opinion

that gays were timid weak and unheroic figures. Okay Both Billy and his lawyer We're bitter about the decision The lawyer is just like You know we should have taken that hundred grand Jesus, why didn't you listen? I told you to take that.

Our lives would have been set, Billy. Damn it. Sorry, man. You told me not to take it. I don't remember it like that. I do not remember it like that. You said, don't take it. That's not how I remember it.

That's not how I remember. Those were your words. They're not a lot of it. Again, only one of us has been drinking for a decade, so excuse me. But the way I remember it was I said to you, 100 grand, that sounds pretty good.

And you said, I want the whole damn thing. And we went for it. This is like my blood. Oh, boy. For those of you listening, Dave's drinking blood. What were we... What were we talking about? You owe me $15 million, man.

Fuck! Yeah. I know what? I'll take 100. Okay. Thanks, man. Billy pays his debts. So his lawyer said Billy would have been better off if he let more kill Ford.

Which, yes, thank you. I already said that. It's totally fucking true. It's like a tough thing for a Marine to have to hear, though. I know what you think, but man, wouldn't your life have been better if you let Ford die?

What an awkward moment to realize that's the truth. Oh, shit. Yeah, when you're not getting $15 million. Yeah. also just to add a little spice to this you should have done anything all right I have a 3.30

so you should probably get out of here tough break is Oliver is it so after the lawsuit was over Billy rapidly went downhill he put on tons of weight and now weighed close to 300 pounds okay dees he would go to Queen Mary's pub

on Church Street for the first of each month and uses veterans check to buy everyone to drink he'd often spend his entire check on that one night and for the rest of the month, his friends would loan him money. He even started borrowing money, which he would then give to A's charities. He always paid back the loans when he got his next check. One friend said, quote,

I have watched him split his last two dollars, give one dollar to someone who needed a meal, and use the rest to buy himself a drink. Wow. Wow, right. How do you get a drink for a buck? No, that's... Is that what you're thinking?

That's what I'm thinking. No, I'm thinking how... Where is this bar? Cockpit Tuesdays. But I just think it's sweet that he bought the meal. But yeah, you can get it. Don't it? Yep.

In late January, he stopped by Newbell Saloon and looked quite ill. He told the bartender that he had been seen at the VA hospital and they sent him home. But then no one saw him for a few days. On February 2nd, 1989, a friend went to his apartment and got the manager to let him in. Billy was dead. Holy shit. Sitting in a reclining chair in the living room, he was surrounded by empty cans of seven-up and a bottle of Jack Daniels. The TV was.

Still on, he had been dead for 10 days. Oh, my God. That is, that is a sweet smell of Sipple. Jesus Christ. That is so sad. No, it's a great story. Oliver Siphol was dead. Seven up.

You'd rather be squirt. Yeah, like a little grape food. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's 47 years old. His friends were surprised to learn. 47 because many thought he was in his 60s. Oh, shit. Jesus. Thank God they bit their tongue on that one.

And boy, you put on way. What are you, 70? He had even thrown himself a 59th birthday party. Well, Dave, they're allowed to think he's that old then. I mean, what? I didn't want to be rude. I'm 20. I'm just dying from booze.

I'm sorry. I didn't, uh... He thought he looks. so old. He's like, fuck it, let's just do this. Okay. I'm 60 now. I mean, if he lived a regular life, like, what are you? 130?

Yeah, yeah, 130. 130 years old. So, he had a funeral, and the man who had saved the president's life, was attended by about 30 people. One of his brothers came from Michigan. Most of the attendees were reporters. Great.

Hey, can I ask you where you're from? Michigan Okay Michigan And How do you know Oliver Wait, what is this?

Do you work for the... To a funeral? Why do you keep licking your pencil? Oh, I ate chicken Fried chicken before I came over It's just on my fingers Go ahead

Okay, no No No, no No Oh my God. For those of you're listening, Dave is looking at Instagram. The coroner said he died of pneumonia and that at one point he had been diagnosed

as a paranoid schizophrenic. Wow. His brother went through his belongings and took Billy's most prized possession that was framed on his wall, the letter from President Ford. His brother's given interviews with different news, newspapers and the quotes about his family and Billy's views are sort of all over the place.

So I've just so I decided after reading how everything was all the place to just kind of take what he said with a grain of salt because it was so everywhere. Okay. Joe Ford was asked in 2001 if gay people should be allowed to be married, quote, I don't see why they shouldn't. I think that is a proper goal at hell. I think they ought to be treated equally, period. If only the Democratic presidential candidates had said that. Yeah. Yeah.

2008. We had two Democratic candidates not saying that. Joe Campbell died on October 2nd, 2005, after battling AIDS. Ford died on December 26, 2006. Someone shot him with slacks. Yeah, he was shot with slacks. When a reporter went to interview George Sipple, his brother, in 2006, he asked to see the letter. he asked to see the letter and the brother went to retrieve it but couldn't find it.

Oh good. That's good. That's good. Yep, that's great. Sure. Eh, well, I thought I had it. The most prized possession of my dead brother, but... You want a Coke? Seven up? Seven up. It's too soon. You're right. No, you guys are... Dave, Dave, hold on. Let me speak, because I understand what everyone's upset about. Dave, he died with seven up around him.

It's not okay for you to say seven. seven up again during this. Period. No matter what the context. No. Spright. Better. Better. Better. Okay, I would like a spright. Nah, you've been a dick about it again. No. It's up, seven up.

The reporter at that time also went to talk to another man who Ford had given a letter to. Ludwig, the guy hit with a bullet in the groin. Oh, what? He... This guy was doing a story on the, all the people who had been from the assassination attempt. Ludwig? He asked to meet... The Ludwig had asked to meet the president,

but he was told there was no time, Ford had no time in his schedule. So he said, quote, to hell with the president, to the reporter, then the Secret Service to a reporter, then the Secret Service came and visited Ludwig because he had said to hell with the president.

Okay. Now, being an escapee from Nazi Germany, Ludwig was not too pleased about being visited from the Secret Service. Oh, shit. They overstepped. They were like, oh, you were what? Oh, sorry, we didn't get a letter. Get a letter from the president. Get a letter. We're sorry, get a letter. Get to the letters from the back.

So Ludwig sold his letter for $100. Oh, my God. What was his letter like? Sorry to hear about your dick. Pretty happy that it wasn't my head. I heard you came. Is that true? That's weird. Anyway, don't be a dick about this anymore. Four. Dick.

See what I did there? I was making a little joke about how close it was to your dick. There's an arrow pointing. That's a callback, bitch. What the fuck? Callback. Cheryl Ford.

On December 31st, 2007, at age 77, Sarah Jane Moore was released from prison. She now agrees she should not have tried to kill Ford. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Sarah.

All we wanted to learn was that you knew it was bad. I shouldn't have done it. Okay. She is glad she did not succeed. Right. So it has a happy ending. Wait, that is a happy ending.

It's a happy ending. Interesting wording as well. I'm glad I didn't succeed. Would you do it again? I'm glad it didn't work out. Would you try to shoot him again? I'm happy with the way it played out. So now the L.A. Times reporter,

who after Herb Kane did his column, broke the story, made it go nationwide. It says after looking back, the other times reporter broke the story nationwide, said, quote, it is a source of a concern

that will stay with me that I attempted to make Oliver Sippel a gay hero. Instead, I help estranged him from his mother. And if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't. By the way, more than estranged him from his mother. You destroyed their lives. Like, ruined his life completely.

Ruined his life. That's, yeah. Herb Kane did not give two shits. Quote, it was a good item. Okay, Herb. Members of the gay community wanted it published to show, they weren't all a bunch of wimps.

So worth it that that guy's life was fucking ruined. So Herb could get a little piece in the paper. Yeah. Cool. So that's fun. Great. Is that it? Yeah, that's it.

It doesn't end well. No. No. The whole thing's a bummer. Yeah, it's a fucking bummer, man. I mean. I said that before. I told people on the first show that the next one was going to be a bummer.

I mean, the first show, I was like, this is the bummer one. You thought that was the bummer one? Yeah, sorry, Dave, that I've been conditioned to think that when you try to keep all Chinese out of America, that, oh, that's a letdown. I was like, show, too, we're going to have a little fun. Holy shit. God damn it. America is just a terrible place. What do we do right?

I'm starting to lose perspective on if anything. thing right has happened here because of this podcast. But at the same time, so at the same time this guy's life was destroyed, life is better for gay people in America, right? Yes, but I mean, truly this guy's life is... Yeah, but we've learned this before, like the baseball player for the Dodgers. So to get to where we are today, we get to where we are today, a bunch of people's lives had to be fucking destroyed for people to fight for what they

deserve, right? Yes, yes. That's how America works. And I guess my point is, wouldn't it be great if we reach conclusions without death? I mean, I know we won't. You know, like we never will.

But why do we live here still? Ask myself that every day. No, it's a great country. We're doing great. We totally. Do we all meet in the middle for a hug? We've clearly turned a corner and headed in the right direction now. Oh, yeah, no.

People tried to clap. Other people are like, I don't know what's going on. People like, is there something wrong with America? No, no, it's good. No, no. It's good. Well, Dave, let me ask you this. America 10 years from now.

No. You didn't even know what I was going to actually. ask, but you still answered it correctly. What are you going to ask? What is it going to look like in 10 years? Split apart. In what way?

There will be different countries. America will be two countries. Or more. Well, I think that's enough for me. Holy shit. We got an exciting decade ahead of us, gang. We're going to quad it up. Just, all I want

is for California to break away. Yeah. Yeah. What is it 12th largest economy? What is it? What? Six largest economy in the fucking world. Six largest economy in the world in the world. So fuck it.

Let's do this. No, honestly, they don't want us. What we should do is we should just go, we should just go to everyone go, you guys don't like us, right? They'd be like, no, I go, so we should leave. And they'll be like what? And they'd be like, fuck you. You guys don't like us. Do you like us?

No. Okay, can we go? No, we need you. But you guys don't like us, right? You keep saying we're all fucking shit hits. You don't like it. It's because you're going to be... All right, you can do it, but take Texas.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no, we've done nothing with it. No. No. No, we're not taking it for Loderdale no no, no, no, take it to the city, teach it something, make it good. It's just like a baby Nebraska, but shittier. You've listened to the Dullup. Very much for coming.

We appreciate it. Next time, Dave would eat potatoes. Thank you. Dullop fans. I know you love the Dallop. You love listening to the Dullop. Do you want to watch the Dullop? You're like, Gareth, what are you talking about?

By the way, it's not Gary. It's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation, and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a five-partner animation, which is actually like a 22-minute episode or 30-minute episode, I can't remember, of the Rube. You can go to Lakeside Animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome animation of the Rube.

It really genuinely kicks ass, and we're very proud of it. And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff, the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch The Rube.