The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - 686 - Felix The Cat

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine Pat Sullivan and his cartoon cat, Felix.  SOURCES TOUR DATES OFFICIAL MERCH   Helix Sleep Squarespace - use code: Dollop

The dollop is brought to you by Squarespace Dave our friends forever We've we've been using Squarespace forever. We love their websites. They're crisp. They're clean. They're easy to use You know well stuff look we've said this over and over again But if you want to know if we really do like Squarespace go look at any website We're affiliated with and it is Squarespace. Yeah.

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When you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash dollop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Don't start with a burp and blow. You're listening to the dollop on the All Things Comedy Network. This is an American history podcast recorded under SAG-AFTRA union contract. I'm Dave Anthony. We start from American history to guy looks, you know, all right. Strike, strike.

I want strike. What? He does halfway. Gareth Reynolds has no idea what the topic is going gonna be about and will not work under these conditions. What conditions? This stuff, this is a sweatshop. You can't keep talking to me like that. How many of these-

Is that why your face is glistening? I can't believe you haven't even, I don't know how you haven't noticed the elephant in the room. The tattoo? No, the fucking huge cut on my forehead. Oh, I couldn't see it because your hat was down. That's the idea, I'm trying to hide it.

How'd you do that little guy? Shower. Okay, are you 65 or older? What are we doing in the shower? First of all, this union is under constant arrest from management and we're not going to take it anymore. I was shaving in the shower, which is now, by the way, have you started doing that? The kids are doing that.

Yeah, I used to do that a lot, but I use, obviously I have a beard, but I use- You have a cute trim here, don't you? I use an electric. Yeah, see, I'm still, I do a combo, but I use... You have a cute trim here, don't you? I use an electric. Yeah, see, I'm still... I do a combo, but I shave, I give the clean shave to the part here and I drop the razor and I went over, I went down to pick it up and I hit my head. I have a sliding glass shower door and I hit my head on the fucking handle so goddamn hard. And I was like, oh no, how bad is this going to be?

And then I was like, oh, actually not that bad. And then so I was washing my face, my hair and stuff. And then all of a sudden it was like rusty. And I was like, wait a minute. And I was like, nope, it did dig me. And I was like, ah, shit. It was pretty bad. I mean, I love it.

I do too. But then also because I'm all cut up in other way, I definitely look like I got into something. Yeah, no. What happened there on your arm? What's going on with you? Are you being abused? Blackberry bush. Oh, you got blackberries where you live?

You got blackberry bushes? Yeah. Dude, I mean, when I was a kid, we had Blackberry Bushes everywhere. So I was all summer long, I was just full of Blackberries. Yeah. Boy, there's an album title. Full of Blackberries. Wait. Dave, I know you're making fun of me publicly, personally,

but June 5th, I have a new podcast called Next We Have. Now, this is the eighth podcast or which podcast? This is the eighth. And we're encouraging people to listen to it, but if you have to choose between the dollop and that, we're saying stay here because we became union. So that is a chip I'll throw in the negotiating table. But it's on my YouTube and you can listen to it wherever you get podcasts. Say the name of it. Next We Have, I get podcasts and say the name of it next we have I said

That say the name of the actual podcast next we have No, but what's the next we have Don't look I look at you What segmental I mean either way it's bad It was segmental. I mean, either way, it's bad. How many how would you say? How many really close friends do you have and how long? I feel like every day you're like a pal cicada.

I have. Well, I don't have as many as podcasts you have because I'm actually trying to bond with humans in real life I have bonds. I Botted with my blackberry bush 1885 year of our Lord Hey, so Christo J town sure who No, you just

Follow the impulse to stop. Wait, did we even tell people we're on tour? Got into huffing. Stop. Yeah, she's just huffing gas rags. No, no he ain't. But it's because he's trying to bring the kids in and he does what he can. But Jesus is huffing.

He's getting into the huff. We're on tour, dollapodcast.com. This whole week. Yeah, but you're going to... Yeah, this whole week. Patrick O'Sullivan was born in Sydney, Australia. Whoa. Okay. I'm going to guess right off the bat.

He's part of the penal colony. Nope. We don't know the day he was born because he doesn't have official birth records or didn't. He's no longer with us. Can I make a pitch? Better time when we didn't have birthdays. We should go back to that. I agree. We should go back to that. I agree. But then everyone just makes up like they did with Jesus. We don't know when he was born. He was born on Christmas day. Under a tree. His parents.

Santa was mushroom. This is breaking news. Tapper started following me on Instagram. Oh my God. He would follow me for literally eight minutes. I know. Am I, I've got a nice thing where it's like, if you don't dig too deep, it seems palatable. But once you start digging, you're like, oh God, all right,

this guy's calling for violence in the streets. Just put up a, put up a post about bloodthirsty jigs tapper. I know. I know. All right, so Patrick O'Sullivan's parents were Irish. His dad, Patrick O'Sullivan Sr. was known around town as Sydney's oldest cab driver. Oh wow, cab driver?

What year? Well, but you're thinking of a cab. Yeah, these are. Motor vehicle, but horse drawn cab. Yeah. Pat didn't stay in school very long as a teenager. He sometimes earned money by singing outside hotels with his friends. I like that.

Well, that seems like something you would have done. If you were born at this time, that's what you would have done in high school. Well, that was TikTok. That was what it was. You and your buddies just went like, I would have, if you're, if you're, if you're saying basically I'm a attention mosquito. Yeah.

And I would have found anywhere to suck blood out of to fill my little butt sack. You know, you should start a podcast about that at 22. He left Australia for London, where he tried drawing comics to sell to newspapers and doing a song and dance act at a music hall. I don't like that you said this is very me because now I'm picturing that I would do everything he's doing, and I bet this goes south. Yep.

He had mid-success mid success mild not very much guests Not enough to make a living okay? He then dropped the oh from oh Sullivan. That's helpful. Yeah, fuck yeah get rid of that Irish nonsense Especially in London. It could have been the Irish helpful. Yeah he got a job as a and we only say that because the English are horrifically oppressive people who murdered the Irish for generations and oppressed them. And so when they came to London to get a job, they would oppress them further.

That's the only reason I'm saying that. He got a job as a deckhand on a commercial ship going back and forth between London and the United States of America Oh, yeah, finally to a non-colonizing zone great people People very welcoming always looking to break bread with the land they stole It's you're just You're trying too hard. Yeah, you know not

We're who where's genociders, US, UK? I know the answer, keep going. UK. Keep going. The ship transported mules. Pat took care of the mules. I asked you. He did that for a whole year.

Yeah. And then one day the boat was docked in New York Harbor and he jumped ship and swam to shore. Okay, okay. Is that is that that's what you. I mean, you're not supposed to jump ship. I assume I assume he had a contract and was supposed to work. How you get out of it? Yeah. I like that. Just jump overboard.

And now we have rocket money. Well, that's an employee. Had rocket money. That's an employee we don't have anymore. What's happening to these mules? All right so he's swam. So that's how he becomes an American. That's how Trump views America right now. They're jumping.

Oh I know who did Trumping. So they, so he needs a job, so he got a job as a boxer. He's like, well, I don't know, I can hit people. Very, very short time, because he ended up with a cauliflower ear and a flat nose. By the way, that is an Irish meal. You know what we don't need? That's not a cauliflower ear. You know what we don't need right now is the English talking shit about the Irish, No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. That goes nice. When Irish haze. You know what the problem with your accent right now is? Is his accent, because he was born in Sydney

and raised by Irish parents, it is a crazy amalgamation, I'm sure, of Australian. He's Austro-Irish. Yes, I'm sure it's insane. May I attempt it? Yes. Oh, fuck. Yeah, yeah.

All right. What I was telling him the other day, that I'd jump ship out there. No, it's too much Irish. Yeah, now you Come on. All right. What I was telling him the other day that I jump ship out there. No, it's too much Irish. Yeah, now you sound like a leprechaun. Well, here, let me try Australian and I'll add in a little, I'll miss his dash and some Irish.

He signed more night the other day that we would day and day. Why? You need to just tell him he's going a bit too hard. Yeah, it's not easy. Yeah, it's almost impossible, I would say. It just sounds like a bad Irish. Yeah, it does. That's all right. We're still proud of you. So he decides to go back to drawing because boxing doesn't work. The problem with

that is he's not really a very good artist, but he's very charismatic and he's a really good storyteller, especially when it comes to anecdotes about his colorful past So he gets a job at McClurs, which is a cartooning house Drawing comic strips that were syndicated to papers around the country Wow So he is an assistant to William Mariner who's an old alcoholic who had he been a cartoonist Since newspapers started printing comic strips. Okay. He was known for comics, which you'll remember You'll know these names like Glad rags the corpulent tramp. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's the best of the corpulent tramps

Billy Blanks the boy burglar Mm-hmm. Yeah and The best of the corpulent tramps. Billy Blinks, the boy burglar. And Wags, the dog that adopted a man. Absolutely. I love that one. Those are all your favorite out of those? Probably the boy burglar. Wags for me. Yeah. Wags. It's a real surprise. It's an upside down. It's kind of what happened to you. What say it again. Say it to my face. Okay.

You were adopted by an abusive cat. What? You got to stop. I got to stop. What? Where'd the cut come from? This was from the shower and this was from a Blackberry bush. For sure, man.

But Mariners... I'm in a cell. But Mariners most popular comic was Sambo and his funny noises. Yeah, I really think that, and I've said this for a while, that noises translate to the written word very well. Mm-hmm. A zoinks, an oopsie, a kerplooche. So Sambo and his funny noises were a lighthearted. Sambo and his funny noises.

It's a lighthearted strip about a naive black child who gets into funny scrapes with two white kids. What? You seem uncomfortable. It's not comfortable, but it could be worse so far. So far, I'm like, okay, this is not great, obviously, but it premise wise, when you hear a 18 hundreds of comic featuring a black child, you're like, buckle up. A common punchline is Sambo getting beaten up by the white boys. So see, there's what I'm talking about.

Now it's awful and not to be enjoyed. So yeah, there you go. There it is. You just got to wait for the other shoe to hit the floor. Or also getting credit for doing work the white boys have done Fuck me Steven Miller's office is just like The amazing reversal of

Yeah, making it making it seem soul of making it, making it seem like the whites aren't doing the stealing. I think that's really what is so, if I may, amazing about the whites is the way that they're the worst and then talk about how everyone's trying to take stuff away from them. Yeah. They steal everything and then shout, I've been robbed. Yes. It's really great.

It's really, and it seems to be in the DNA. Yeah. I get the nature nurture part of it is very difficult. Yeah, it's great. Good Lord. He, every time you hear Stephen Miller talk, you're just like, wow, that's, that's a lot of bullshit to shoot out of a fucking man. On October 1914, Mariner was drinking heavily at a summer home near Hackensack. And his wife took their child and left, as she often did when he got really hammered. So Mariner told the neighbor that if his wife didn't come back that night, he would burn down the village, as you do, like how else can you handle the situation? What was your concern with him? He seems to be pretty balanced. he would burn down the village as you do, like how else can I handle the situation?

What was your concern with him? He seems to be pretty balanced. Well, she sounds like she's just weak. Once again, if it's not a black kid taking credit, it's a white woman not understanding what we're going for. That night, Mariner lit his house on fire and then shot himself. Oh, Jesus Christ. That will show her.

That's a real Kabluie. His child remains were found the next morning. So I like I got to say, that sounds like it worked out for everybody. But yeah. Well, that is that's quite an exit. Mm hmm. That's quite a so to tie.

Now that's how at the age of 29 Pat Sullivan took over the comic strip Sambo and his funny noises. So this so for him when Mariner self amalgamated or whatever it's called, he was like, this is great. All right. Yeah, I got full control. Awesome. So he ghost wrote the strip for a year until McClure ended it. And then Pat rebooted one of Mariner's old comic strips. See, this one we thought was in poor taste, but now we can bring it back.

Johnny Boston Beans. comic strips. See, this one we thought was important taste, but now we can bring it back. Johnny Boston beans. All right, let's let's party. Which ended in 1905, but he changed the name to I don't see I someone did the research for me on this one, Sarah, and it says Johnny, so he changed the name to Johnny Boston Beans. So I think the difference is that Boston Beans is one word when Mariner did the strip and then he separated the two words. So now it's Johnny Boston Beans. So like they were like, legally we're clear.

Yes. So, now he wouldn't have to pay the estate. Okay. I like to call that one, everything's stupid. So animation is a very new technology that's still not really popular. Right. Pat charms his way into a job at a Raoul Barr animated studios. Sorry.

Raoul Barr animated cartoons in the Bronx. Okay. And at Barrie works on a series of films for Edison Film Company called the animated Grouch Chasers. These names are coming hot. I want to see, I want to see that. The Grouch Chasers. Yes.

Have you tried to find the Grouch Chasers? No, I'm sure it doesn't exist anymore. That is no way. Grouch Chasers, okay. Pat is supposed to be learning on the job, but he's not really good at the whole learning student thing. Heavy drinking, very common amongst animators, but even by their standards,

Pat is an absolute drunken mess. You need a steady hand to do your animating. That's correct. He's constantly late, he's visibly hungover, and he reeks of alcohol. Dave, I think he was drinking. Well also, Gareth, he's not that great at animating to start with.

Do you remember that part? Like he's not very good at it. Right. So this is not a good combo. Right. So Barr found his work quote unsatisfactory and fires him nine months. That's how long he lasted. Nine months. So Pat then starts his own animation studio. Good. Pat Solv in productions and he's much much better

producing than he is in animating mostly because he copied everything he had seen Barr do. He even negotiated. You mean copied his management style? Yeah, everything, yeah. Okay, right. He even negotiated his own deal to make cartoon ads for Edison Film Company. Because Barr had a deal with Edison Film Company. So Pat adapted Sambo and his funny noises into a cartoon,

and once again he changed the main character's name to avoid getting sued by the Mariner family and Sambo became Sammy Johnson. Well, J-O-H-N-S-I-N. Johnson. Okay. First of all, it's nice that the Mariner family is finally going to get screwed over by life. And second of all, am I the only one who's glad that the the comic about abusing a young black child is back?

And now we get to actually see it, you know, move. No, yeah, yeah, I think you are. Yeah, we get to see. No, no, no, no, no. All right. Hold on. You are the don't don't woke me now. Let me finish. Don't me now. Let me finish. Don't woke me. Let me finish. It'll be nice to see it with motion.

Well, we're not. Yeah, OK. That's great. I'm excited for you. Don't put me on an island alone here. You're on an island alone. Don't put me on an island alone here. You're on an island alone. The studio cracked out cartoons like Sammy Johnson Hunters, Sammy Johnson Strongman,

Sammy Johnson's Slumbers Knot, Sammy Johnson Gets a Job, Sammy Johnson in Mexico, Sammy Johnson At the Seaside, etc. on and on. It's like earnest. And the reason he's cracking them out, Gareth, is because Sammy Johnson's a hit. Okay. After a year, Pat hired a young artist named Otto Messmer, and Otto's father was a Bavarian immigrant, and his mother was a German American,

and they both worked in factories in New Jersey, and that's where Otto was born and raised. Okay. So after high school, Otto trained in art through night classes and correspondence courses courses and he builds up a portfolio by selling cartoons and humorous poems To newspapers and magazines

Would you like to hear a poem? No one of Otto's poems. Well, okay, then I'll read it. It's called owed to an old straw hat People in these fucking hands. Last spring when the winds grew warmer, I purchased me a lid. Two bucks was the sum invested. My winter hat I hid. Of straw was the thing I purchased. It cooled my shining plate. But now are my tear drops falling, for we must part, tis fate, tis week, that I thus am sobbing, and I feign woodst can the weep, but I sigh when I think of winter, when my straw lid must sleep.

Wow. So, a seasonal eulogy to a hat. That's correct. Well, you got to put them away. Yeah, it's tough. And just just to be clear, because we talked about a lot of stuff on the show. Yeah. If you wore it outside of straw hat time, it was insane. Yeah, past Labor Day, you're to get the shit kicked out of you. All the time to time travel back to that might be that might be the watching watching the straw hat riot would have been pretty just to just to go back just to be like it's just it's awesome. So Otto was witty, but he's also very shy. He felt self-conscious signing his name on his art.

So he would sometimes sign it with the pen name Otz. O-T-Z. Otz. Okay. He was inspired by the early animated films of Windsor McKay, and he figured out the fundamentals of animation, and when he was 24, he got his first animator job At Pat Sullivan Studios as far as how they're actually animating

What are they doing? I mean are they? Like it is just the drawing by hand and drawing by hand and then just taking stills and just editing stills basically like Like clipping the other stills. Yeah, I believe so. Okay. Yeah. Probably like Flipbooking or something. Okay, right.

I don't think it's Flipbooking. I think we're actually talking about it because these are, yeah. These are, yeah, this is actually animation. So Pat made his animators study pictures and films of famous comic actors so they could learn their comedic timing and funny movements, which is another thing that he stole from Barr. And that kept, that's something that still happened, that's like in Aladdin with Robin Williams

and the Little Mermaid, like that's something that's still, it's a thing. So. Totally. And that's actually why a lot of the early cartoons portrayed characters in blackface, white gloves or whiteface, because they were based on vaudeville or minstrel show, guys. All good. Listen to you once again trying to excuse away blackface.

Man. In his first year at Pat Sullivan Studios, Otto mostly worked on a series of 12 Charlie Chaplin cartoons. Chaplin sent a stack of photographs of himself in different poses for the animators to draw him. And Otto just studied them religiously. He's not a fan of devices like Max Flesher's rotoscope, which required subjects in live action and then drawing animated characters over them. He thought a cartoon is best when it shows things that are physically impossible.

Yeah, right. Quote, why animate something you can see in real life? So- They still say that, by the way. I say that all the time. No They still say that, by the way. I say that all the time. No. I say that constantly. No.

It's one of my most common sayings that people love in the business. If people want to see animated dollop stuff, go to Lakesided on YouTube. Otto had been at Pat Sullivan's studios for a year when World War one breaks out and he is drafted So he married his girlfriend right before he ships off Pat did not fight in World War one probably because he's not a US citizen

He's just a guy who jumped ashore and swam here. So wait, he goes there and then we'll oh no, no, he's he's here He's just not even draftable. Yeah, pat's like i guess not on the records or something um so auto is a corporal in the army single corps and once he was just chatting with another soldier in a trench uh looking you know out on the horizon when uh in the middle of conversation just a bullet goes through the other guy's head and he dies Which will happen that happened here Another time someone in his unit shot and wounded a German sniper and the sniper was still alive When the Americans got to him Otto who spoke German confronted him during his final moments and the German offered the Americans his last cigarettes

For the rest of his life Otto almost never spoke about his time on the battlefield. Is there any reason he didn't want to talk about it? Was it tough for him to talk about the time that a guy that he'd just been involved in murdering offered him his last smoke? Holy fuck. There is not a, I mean, that's quite an encapsulation of the fucking issue with goddamn war. It's just like two humans who are just like, what's this about? Although obviously Germany was pushing. Yeah. The thing about war is it's how all the people are fighting and not the guys who start to-

That's what I mean. You're just checkers. But now the good news is we don't even know about those anymore because we could just do it without... Now it's just some fucking dude in a room. Just fucking... Or a woman. Or not by any means. Just in a room with a fucking little...

Playing a video game where they're just droning the shit out of people. And getting deeply, deeply emotionally scarred and having terrible mental damage. I mean, what about that seems troubling, the fact that you're just sitting in an air-conditioned room murdering a family? In April 1917, while Otto is in the war, Pat is hanging out with Ernest Smythe, who's an old friend from London.

Sure. He's also an animator at the studio. And Pat and Ernest begin flirting with two girls who are staying in a rented apartment in the same building as the studio. And then he's like, you want to go to a bar? You want to get some cocktails? So the girls are like, yeah, we'll go to a bar.

They have a round of creme de mince. And the girls are Alice and Gladys. Once brunette, once blonde. Did I mention 14 and 15 years old? Yeah. Did I mention? I probably should have started. When I said girls, I mean...

Literal girls. They had run away from home five days before and they just wanted to be actresses in the big city. And then so they're like, yeah, we're animators. We're in show business, which impresses the young girls because they're girls. And so they go out with Pat and Ernst the next night, and then on the third night, Pat is like, Alice, it's just you and I go out.

And then a week later, the cops show up at the studio, and they arrest Pat and Ernst. Ernst is charged with abduction, which was later reduced to impairing morals, which is something you need to think about. Yeah, I agree. And Pat was charged with rape. I gotta be honest.

I'm surprised that that last part happened. I'm glad. I am too. I think. To me, it feels like, I feel like, you know, like anytime you went out into a bar, it looked like a daddy daughter dance and you were just like, yeah, whatever. But I think because these were runaway girls, that's probably it. But yeah, I know what you mean.

Like it was, yeah, it was a free for all. It's just like when someone gets arrested for murder in the 1800s, you're like, wait, what? Wasn't it? Wasn't everybody murdering? So I was testified that it wasn't consensual Her first time also he gave her for an aerial disease, which is really just a he's just a great anyway, he's convicted He gets the maximum sentence was ten years Pat's wife

Marjorie, writes a letter to the judge asking the judge to be lenient on her husband who was just convicted of rape. It was on Sullivan Studio Stationery, the letter she wrote, and decorated images of Sammy Johnson, the beloved cartoon character. The Jeff. Pat's trying to flood the system, I guess.

Pat's lawyer also did the same, arguing that his client's butting. My client believes that he's working under cartoon law, where a man can swallow a grenade and survive, where if a fella gets shot 15 times and drinks water, it shoots out of him in all different directions. Where gravity only exists once you realize you've bent it. I hate to break this to you.

That's not happening in cartoons yet. Yeah, I guess. I figured. They're not there yet. It's all very realistic. Okay. All right. I don't know.

I got no excuse then. Well, because they're basically saying the beloved racist cartoon is this is the guy who makes it. You know, I got to say there's been a lot of grim times in American history, but trying to excuse your venereal rape away with beloved racism, it's up there. Yeah, so his lawyer's literally like, look, he's this animator guy and you should give him some time off because that's really important. And so the judge agrees that Pat was, quote, a man of very considerable ability

and sentenced him to just two years in Sing Sing Prison. In the end, he ends up only serving nine months and three days. Now his studio closed down while he was in prison, but reopened when he comes back, and in 1919, Otto- Imagine working for him! Just be like, Jesus Christ, dude, how's everyone doing? Let's do some, let's do lunch in the communal cafeteria room.

So yeah, so Otto comes back in 1919 from the war, the studio is open, but it's barely at this point, it's really having a hard time. So Otto starts making Chaplin cartoons again, which puts the studio back in business. So much business. You imagine having seen what he's just seen and he's like re-editing. He's just picturing the bullet going through his friend's head over and over again. But it turns the studio around again. And now they're actually turning down work. So Paramount approaches to make a few original cartoons

for a film package, which is like a bundle of features and shorts and cartoons and newsreels and stuff. So Pat almost says no because they're so busy, but Otto wants, he wants to pitch something new. And Pat says, okay, go for it as long as it doesn't interfere with the other work we have. Like that comes first. So Otto agrees and works on nights and weekends

to complete the side job. And the cartoon is called Feline Follies. Now we're talking. Are you excited? Yeah. Yeah, cancer mischievous. It features a black cat called Master Tom. Oh, Jesus.

Who romances another cat called Miss Kitty White. And Miss Kitty. Can you just make it about cats, you sons of bitches? What's your deal? Todd, it's sexy. And Miss Kitty, when Miss Kitty reveals she has a litter of Tom's kittens, Tom commits suicide by inhaling coal gas. What just Scott said?

What? This is the cartoon? Is that true? Remember Otto just came back from war, so he's dealing with some shit. He's working some shit out. Oh my god. Yeah I'm gonna take the kids down to the little theater there. We're probably gonna watch a cartoon. Jesus Christ. Well the Paramount executive in charge, John King, loves it.

And he asks- Right. Can we see penetration? Let's see the little cat dick. He tells Otto to make another one. So go darker. Yeah, make it worse. Can there be blood and guts somehow? Let's really see it. So, Fee-Line Follies premieres on November 19th, 1990.

Fee-Line Follies is about a litter abandon and a fucking, the tom-offs himself. Technically, those are Follies. Now wait a minute, I got an idea now. What? I'm wondering if I have a funny name clinging to where this goes. Uh-oh.

By the end of the year, Auto had finished the third short featuring the cat, and Master Tom had a new name, Felix. Oh my God, even weirder. Between 1919 and 1921, Otto made 25 Felix the Cat shorts for Paramount. Holy shit. They're popular but not lucrative enough

for Paramount boss Adolf Zucker, and in 1920s, Zucker decided to cut the package of films that the Felix series was part of, and when Pat heard this, he realized he didn't own the rights to Felix, Paramount did. Whoops. Yeah, that's why they say never trust an Adolf. Well, that and there's other reasons, but yeah.

No, that comes from this, probably. There was another thing. We haven't done a dollop on it, so you probably don't know about it, but it's not great. It's not animated. It's bad. Huh? Interesting. I'd love to learn more about it. No one knows for sure how Pat got the rights to Felix from Paramount. One of Pat's animators said Pat told the story once and only once, and given Pat's record, may not be true at all. But Pat said he got shit-faced drunk. Okay, we can obviously believe that. Good start.

And he barged into Zucker's office office screaming that he had been robbed and stood on Zuckers desk and started pissing all over his papers. Zuckers then picked up his phone and told his attorney to hand over the rights. Well, I mean, there's a lesson here. There's always lesson here. There's always the nuclear. I mean, I could see that working. I could do not just because it's because it's you're just like, I can't be involved with this guy, get him out of my life completely.

It's in chapter six of the art of the deal by Donald Trump. Never, never if I wanted to reenact it more. So the story would be impossible to believe if Pat hadn't actually nabbed the rights. Maybe Zucker just wanted to get the crazy man out of his office, but either way, Pat then tried to sell the series to Warner Brothers, but they're not, they're not down. He pissed all over another guy's desk, so we don't care to make a deal with you. Harry Warner reaches out to Margaret Winkler, who is his former secretary, to take it on as part of her new distribution business. Okay.

So, MJ Winkler pictures so from 1922 to 1925 Pat Sullivan Studios made 64 Phoenix shorts under MJ Winkler pictures and Felix becomes a Worldwide hit it's massive right So Felix physical parents is drawn from Otto's studies of Charlie Chaplin. He communicates directly with the audience by winking,

or holding up a finger and doing something funny. He has signature movements, most famously pacing back and forth with his hands behind his back, while thinking about a problem. Yeah. Yeah. And before Felix, cartoon characters would be designed and animated for one short film. And then that's it.

Then they're done. Uh huh. Wait, what do you mean? They would. You're one off. They're all one off. Oh, so they weren't like keeping cells or whatever. They're like, throw it in the trash.

So the animator's like, I feel like I drew this already. We got it walking. We got a bunch of it walking in the garbage. I mean, so there's like no, there's no franchise. There's no like, yeah, once you're done with the character, you just never bring them back. Like you're not with them. Imagine. Even the characters that did recur didn't have distinct personalities. It's just like a funny dog and cats.

Like it's not, you know, the same thing. But Felix has a strong, unique personality and he breaks the fourth wall and rules of reality in ways American animation has never done. Did he ever look into the camera and say, you know the guy who funds these was convicted of rape. No, no, he didn't actually. And the rights were returned because he pissed

all over a guy's desk. So there's also this, the fluid movement between reality and fantasy. So wild visual gags that Otto was so good at inventing, he, like the thing you were talking about before, the getting shot and then all the water coming out of you or like all those things, this is the guy who came up with all that.

Like he took it to the fantasy level. He took it out of you or like all those things. This is the guy who came up with all that. He took it to the fantasy level. He took it out of reality and it's like revolutionary. Like people are just like, holy shit! Now wait a minute, wait a minute. You can draw whatever you want. This is. Hold on, hold on, hold on. How the hell did he get him to fly?

How do you trade a cartoon cat how to do that? Gareth, this dollop, this podcast, whatever this is, is sponsored by Squarespace. Dave. Our favorites, our sweet, sweet Squarespace. Dave. We've been using Squarespace for a long time. If you don't know what it is, it's an all-in-one platform, website platform that helps you stand out and succeed online.

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to your house. No, that's not what she's offering she's in the UK you fuck fool and yeah but she loves she loves Squarespace and we don't swear during our ads and the reason the reason Kara sent crab cake Sally to Squarespace was because super easy to use yeah that's why we highly recommend it we have been using it for a long time because it is easy and we are more on your website my website dollop, all Squarespace. Love it. We will be having merch on our Squarespace very soon. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid on time with

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Well, all I'm saying is keep the videos of how to make the crab cakes By the paywall, so she's teaching people how to make them now. It's not a real business Go to squarespace.com For a free trial and when you're ready to launch use offer code dollop save 10% of your first Purchase of a website or domain that's squarespace.com Slash dollop for a free trial when you're ready to launch use offer code dollop to save 10% of your first purchase of a website Or domain and tell them Sally sent you do not Sally's crab cakes Why are you so mad? Do you not like crab cakes? I just think the whole thing got ruined.

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And if you're a business, you can manage your clients and invoices, vetting and receiving payment. Am I allowed to speak? Because I think that's a good point. No. and receiving payment. Am I allowed to speak? Cause I think that's a good point. No, go to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash dollop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

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Gold Rush? I know, it's all nuts. These are just a few of the really weird and wild true stories featured on The Best Idea Yet, which is a podcast all about the surprising origin stories behind the products that you love and are obsessed with and can't stop using and eating. From the Happy Meal to Google Maps to good old Costco Kirkland brand, each episode unpacks how these icons went viral and thanks to a whole lot of trial error and awesomeness. So if you love learning about how stuff works, who made it, and why on earth it caught on, follow the best idea yet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts, you can listen early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus. The dollop is brought to you by Squarespace.

Oh Dave. Our friends forever. We've been using Squarespace forever. We love their websites. They're crisp, they're clean, they're easy to use. You don't have to update stuff. Well, look, we've said this over and use. You don't have to update stuff. Well, look, we've said this over and over again, but if you want to know if we really do like Squarespace, go look at any website we're affiliated with and it is Squarespace. Oh yeah, look, they have flexible payments. You can just make the checkout. Flexible employees too. Those people are... That's weird. You can make the whole checkout experience seamless, very simple, very powerful.

They do credit cards, Apple Pay, all the stuff, PayPal. They do it all. You can sell content. You can sell your exclusive stuff right on their site by adding a paywall. You can sell memberships. You can sell courses, whatever. You can sell stuff. I'm doing a ropes course on my website.

Is that what we're talking about? I feel like we shouldn't have you on this. Okay, keep going. And if you're a business, you can manage your clients and invoices, vetting and receiving payment. Am I allowed to speak? Cause I think that's a good point. No, go to squarespace.com for a free trial.

And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash dollop to save 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain. I'm going to say it again go to squarespace.com for free trial when you're ready to launch go to squarespace.com slash dollop to save 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain. Let me ask you a question. Do you know which best-selling water toy was invented in a NASA engineer's bathroom or which Taco Bell innovation involved a literal paint sprayer to coat taco shells in Dorito dust? Yum! And did you know that Levi's jeans wouldn't exist without the California Gold Rush? I know it's all

nuts. These are just a few of the really weird and wild true stories featured on the best idea yet Which is a podcast all about the surprising origin stories behind the products that you love and are obsessed with and can't stop using and eating from the Happy Meal to Google Maps to a good old Costco Kirkland brand each episode unpacks how these icons went viral and thanks to a whole lot of trial, error, and awesomeness. So if you love learning about how stuff works, who made it, and why on earth it caught on, follow the best idea yet on the Wondry app

or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus. It's also seen as very artistic. Before this, gags, like I said, very real, like a pratfall, stuff like that. But Felix would do things like remove his tail, use it as a screwdriver, and then put it back on.

Or take the number four off a calendar and turn it into a chair. He could sneak into buildings. This guy's a fucking magician! How's he doing that? Well, Dan, he's not real. It's not, don't tell me it's not real. I'm watching it with my eyes. The tail, the tail only exists because a man drew that. Do you understand?

He took it off his bottom. No, no, no. But he. How is it a screwdriver? It's he's a fake. I feel like I'm losing my mind. Dan, Dan, no, it's me. I just wait.

No, no, no, it's way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Fake I feel like I'm losing my mind Dan no No, no, no, no, no, no, honey

Honey, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. No, no, no, no, no I saw men kill. No, I know in the war. I know and none of them Were able to stop the leak with a cork. No, but they weren't... Even if someone were to be shot today, God forbid, they wouldn't be able to put nine corks in it and stop the water they drank from coming out of it. I'm not taking off my hat because there might be an explosion. Well, what's strange about that is that we haven't seen that in any of the cartoons. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. You understand how this is fucked up my world. Yeah, absolutely.

We should just. What's real anymore? I mean, I just, I don't know, but I'd say the stuff Felix does is not real. and our lives remain quite real Oh, are you ready for deep fakes then motherfucker? Okay. Well, it's just it let's let's take this outside of the theater Let's leave the picture ha He could also take the Sun out of the sky No He could also take the Sun out of the sky Make it First of all no First of all we'd go into it we die

First of all we either burn or hit an ice age so no and Make it in the body of a banjo and play it he could tip his ears like a hat the body of a banjo and play it he could tip his ears like a hat. Everyone get your hats! We're not gonna watch this guy play this song anymore. He could tip his ears like a hat. No you don't! Get back! Get back!

When he was confused a question mark appeared over his head which he would grab and use as a fish hook or straighten it out and use it as a baton. I've had enough of this. When he got an idea and three exclamation points appeared over his head, he could gather them, fashion them into a propeller, and use it to fly away. Okay? The amount of people who were out there,

like if I could just get the question marks to appear. That's the battle. Turning them into a copter's not gonna be a problem. I just love this. Why won't they appear? It's just so amazing this is blowing people's minds oh yeah wait people are probably like put the cat in water drown it they're dangerous

by the way they just came over very I'm sure he did so press around the world considered Felix an icon of the era. Marcel Brion of the Académie Francais, quote, he becomes the impossible. Nothing is more familiar to him than the extraordinary. And when it is not surrounded by the fantastic, he creates it. The whole thing is that even if the environment is banal, Felix will make it dynamic.

It has, without question, ruined my marriage. whole thing is that even if the environment is banal, Felix will make a dynamic. It has, without question, ruined my marriage. There's no way to return home and have a conversation with a normie after you see that Felix takes his talk bubble, expands it into an ocean, swims upon it, catches a squid, turns it into calamari, and then returns it back to its normal talk bubble farm. George Bernard Shaw quote.

Whoa, George Bernard Shaw. It's really amazing. If Michael Angelo were now alive, I would not have the slightest doubt that he would have his letterbox filled with proposals from the great film firms to constrain his powers to the delineation of Felix the Cat instead of the Sistine Chapel. That's pretty sad to be quite honest with you. If to be like,

Michelangelo is like, no, no, no. The Sistine Chapel just walking in, just like, wow, look at that Felix touching his own question mark. In a real, where he's, look at that, he's playing the banjo. Oh, that's naughty. Oh my goodness. You know, the guy who came up with this has quite a checkered past. So Felix the cat cartoons remain very dark and relatively topical. In Felix revolts a town council bans cats and Felix becomes an organizer unionizing the cats to strike so that rats run wild in the town. I can't. That is like, I mean, I was going to say, yeah, that's just like, that's just shows

that Otto is doing all of the art because Pat's not paying attention because that's Otto going, I'm not treated well. That's great. Look at all these dirty rats out there ruin in society and Felix turns the tide rats declare war on cats Hell yes. No Hell yeah, we can like both rats and cats know and Felix joins the army to fight on the battlefield is dead body. Yes one right in the head

battlefield is dead bodies one right in the head on the battlefield dead bodies pile up clearly from others experiences in World War one. You know, I only notice when Felix says I'm auto I need therapy please help. We should lose that. That's kind of off topic. It's just crazy how much death there like it's it's just a guy working out his shit because he's just fully just trying to process his trauma he has me and instead he's just animating it it's really insane by 1925 Felix was by far the most popular cartoon character in the world. For many non-Americans, including Italian director

Federico Fellini, he was their first taste of American culture. Charlie Chaplin. Someday I hope to meet a Felix in a work I would do. Charlie Chaplin regularly praised him, and Buster Keaton parodied him in Go West. Oh really? I fucking love Buster Keaton. Ohied him in Go West. Oh, really? I fucking love Buster Keaton.

Oh, he's the best. The best. Felix was a merchandise in a way no other cartoon character. By the way, did you see when Buster Keaton had to transition to the talkie? Like, the first time we heard him talk, you were like, what's going on? Uh-oh.

Yeah, because he was like so great with his face and then he was just in a movie, he's like, I don't know, maybe we'll call Maj. And everyone was like, okay, we're actually, we're getting to you here. So he's merchandise in a way that no other cartoon character has ever been. He had two radio hits, Felix the Cat,

and Felix Kept on Walking. There were Felix tie pins, Brute brooches, clocks, Christmas ornaments, cigars, car radiator caps, baby oil, blankets, radios, records, and sheet music. Jesus Christ. So this is, I mean, this is the full on. By the way, I can't really criticize while I'm surrounded by a Jose merchandise. But that, so it's like, it's the first time where it's, this is hitting on this level.

It's Disney. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Felix became the British polo team's official mascot. It's an absolute honor to finally find ourselves. Now look, I understand that today it may be feels low stakes, but remember what would Felix do? Well, I think he'd take the head off of his mallet

and he'd turn it into a gavel and he'd see a trial where he would say that the gentleman were playing should no longer exist. A bit heady, but something like that could work for a while. Yeah, it's the first, he is the first giant balloon ever made for a Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. What the fuck was that parade before that? I can't imagine. Just probably us just being like,

we stole the land. So the merchandising rights are making Pat Sullivan 100,000 a year, which is about 1.8 million today. And then he got 8,000 per Felix film, most of which auto rights and directs. And 80,000 per year for the Felix cartoon strip, which Otto again wrote, and then he would actually sign Pat's name on it.

And from 1922 to 1925, Pat made almost 19 million in today's money, and in 1925, the starting salary for an animator at Pat Sullivan Studios was, do you want to guess? A week. The starting salary a week? Oh God. A week.

$20? Last ten! Oh Jesus Christ! Goddamn. We are sick. We are sick. We are sick. In today's money that would be about 8600 a year. Fuck. In the fall of 1925, Pat and Marjorie, and by the way, animation, what do I want to call it, just exploitation continues today.

Like it is one of the most exploitive parts of show business. Having worked on a few animated things, the amount... You kind of can't even get over the idea that factored into the budget is the work will be coming from Malaysia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's terrible. I'm sure that that's going real healthy and great over there.

And it's also like most of it's not unionized and you're still sending it out. You're already paying people shit in America and now you're like, well, let's not do it here. It's not shitty enough. Yeah. Yeah. So in the fall of 1925, Pat and Marjorie went on a five-month Felix promotional tour through England, France, the Mediterranean, Africa, China, and Australia.

Jesus Christ. They sailed on a luxury ocean liner, the HMS Majestic. Reporters often ask Pat about Felix's origins. I can only imagine that tale end up. Well, he would change the story depending on the audience. But he never mentioned Otto and always referred to himself as Felix's only creator.

In the press, Pat used a rags to riches storyline calling himself quote, a poor boy who made good abroad. Sometimes Pat brought up Sammy Johnson and tied into Felix. But not on a- Who is Sammy Johnson again? Sammy Johnson's the- Oh, the old, right, yeah, yeah, right.

The Sambo character that he changed. More often, he would say his wife came up with the idea. Quote, she came bursting into the studio carrying her arms the most washed out, Popeye'd half starved ragamuffin of a cat that ever lived in a New York back street. And she said, she said everybody's drawing men, why not do an animal feature? And that was how Felix began. Completely untrue. Just totally fabricated, 100's drawing men. Why not do an animal feature? And that was how Felix began.

Completely untrue. Just totally fabricated, 100% fabricated. I mean, but he's trying to make up for the fact that he, you know, that there was a statutory charge. There's that. So, you know what I mean? You got to remember, it's always in the back of his normal mind.

Sometimes Pat said Felix's name came from the phrase, Australia Felix, a term used by early European settlers on the continent. Don't know what it means. When it was a penal colony. There was also a 1917 novel called Australia Felix. Pat said Felix was named and or colored black after the black Australian boxer Peter Felix. Pat said Felix was named and or colored black after the black Australian boxer Peter Felix.

Also, should I mention that Pat would not hire any black animators at his studio? If you can imagine that. That's good. Meanwhile, Otto. Well, I did, by the way, this guy sounded pretty good. By the way, may I say ahead of his time a little bit?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, while this is going on, Otto is actually writing and directing the Felix cartoons. According to Sullivan Studio Animators, Pat hardly ever came into the office. Otto ran the studio when Pat was away, during which he would forge Pat's signature on Chex's memos and other paperwork. So Otto's running the studio completely. And drawing, he's, it's him. He's the guy, it's his studio.

It's literally all him. Meanwhile, Pat's abroad with his wife saying that she helped him conceive it all. This is capitalism. Yes, yep. What Pat did show up, sorry, when Pat did show up, he would stumble through the doorway, hammered, toss a bag of dirty laundry to the nearest animator,

and tell him to take it to the cleaners. I gotta say though, to only show up to work when you're drunk is pretty awesome. Like to just get hammered and be like, I should go to the office. If you do my laundry, if the animator didn't jump up fast enough to do laundry, Pat would fire him on the spot. Jesus Christ. What's the tinkling? Is the cat playing with something?

No, you hear that? Yeah, what is it? Yeah, I hear your wind chime. Isn't that magic? You want me to close the door? It's far away. It's fine, it's weird, but we can handle it. It kind of sets the mood.

I'm sure somebody will scream about it, but that's just them not being able to handle. Well, you took an icy sip earlier, in my head I thought there's a comment. Oh yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. We're living.

The idea of doing this without water is shocking. Like when someone was just basically like, is it possible for you guys to just hydrate before? It's like, why don't we just get IV bags? Why don't we just work for Pat? Okay, so he would fire the guy and then Otto would give him a severance check and send the guy home. And then the next day the animator would just quietly sneak into work and Pat would have forgotten about it. So best case scenario would be to not get up fast enough when he wanted his laundry done because then you would get severance

and weekly. I mean, yeah. So that's what I would do. I'd be like, do your laundry, you're fired. That's right. That's actually, yeah. So Pat's employee, Seamus Calhoun, Calhain, how do you say C-U-L-H-A-N-E?

C-U-L-H-A-N-E, C-U-L-H-A-N-E? Culhane? Culhane, yeah, probably Culhane. Seamus Culhane, and now there's so much Irish people screaming. Pat's employee Seamus Culhane called Pat, quote, the most consistent man in the business, consistent in that he was never sober.

Like any pop culture phenomenon, Felix had many imitators. Cartoonist Paul Terry, creator of Mighty Mouse, introduced a cat that looked similar to Felix. It was also named Felix. No. I mean, you pushed it. You pushed it. I love that guy. He's just the least creative thief on the place. Just coming in like you feel like, guys, I had an idea last night for how we can take a slice

of this Felix action. So Mighty Mouse will now introduce a cat into Mighty Mouse's world. Uh-huh. Kind of a little bit antagonistic, doesn't play by the rules of physics, is not bounded by the society norms in any way. Sounds exactly like- He's got a real Felix feeling to him. Yeah, he sounds like Felix, yeah.

But he's not Felix. And he's in Mighty Mouse's world, and I think he could be a bit of an antagonist for Mighty Mouse, which we've been looking for. I think this way we could capture some of the Felix. Okay, okay. Yeah. What's his name?

What are we calling him? Felix, we're gonna call him Felix. I'm sorry, what's that? He will also be named Felix. He is Felix the Felix. Okay. Okay. Yeah. What's his name? What are we calling him? Felix, we're gonna call him Felix. I'm sorry, what's the hell? He will also be named Felix. He is Felix the cat. I have to go. I'm about to golf. All right, guys.

Take out! This is terrible. Pat threatened to sue, so he changed the name to Henry. Did you not expect that lawsuit? How did you not? The only way that's not a lawsuit is if he never finds out. How do you change it to Henry also? Fine, we'll call him Hank.

Fine. John Bray, who had gotten into animation by faking being a reporter to interview Windsor McKay about his production methods, and then tried to copyright the methods that McKay told him about, and then he sued McKay for using them and created a character named Thomas the cat who looked exactly like Phoenix.

So animators are fucking assholes. That is a loaded operation. I am reporting the name of the publication, the real times. At Margaret Winkler's suggestion, Walt Disney very early in his career created a Felix-ish rabbit called Oswald in which, which in combination with the Disney studio style and use of sound became very successful. Now, Pat was pissed that Winkler ripped off Felix, so he switches distributors. It's so great for him to be furious

about someone stealing Felix. It's crazy. It's like. It's crazy. It's awesome. America's awesome. Yeah. The new distributor, Educational Pictures,

released two cartoons a month for two and a half years. So when Walt Disney finds out that Otto is actually Felix's creator, he tries to hire Otto away. But he wants Otto to move to California, and Otto's like a fucking New Yorker, like one of those weird New Yorkers that can't leave the city. So he turns Disney down.

Although, let's be honest, it's not like Disney treated people well either. No, but he didn't know that. It's strange. It's just strange to be under the conditions he's under and he's just to be like, yeah, but California doesn't smell like egg piss. In 1928, two talkies. So right now we have films with sound came out and changed like a slur now.

Yeah, a little bit. Okay. It changes the industry. So the jazz singer and a cartoon called Steamboat Willie starring Mickey Mouse. Yeah. Steamboat Willie is a center for Buster Keaton's film Steamboat Willie, starring Mickey Mouse. Yeah. Steamboat Willie is the sign of a Buster Keaton's film, Steamboat Bill. It was the third Mickey Mouse short and the first cartoon with synchronized sound and

music. So, you know, good visual gags, happened in perfect sync with the rhythm of the music. It's a massive hit. People go fucking bananas. They can't believe what they're seeing. It's so funny. I mean, I obviously were spoiled Obviously, we've fucking ruined everything by the amount that is thrown at us entertainment wise

But the idea of grown adults going to watch Steamboat William be like, that's it. We're peeking When it's just like a mouse on a boat like Like grown men were like this is the height of cinema. So like, like Pat Walt is a very, very good promoter and Mickey became famous worldwide as quickly as Felix had. Now everybody wants cartoons with sound and the animation industry, which has been in a kind of a slump, is revived. So the popularity of sound cartoons,

not good for Felix, who's a silent film character. Pat Staff had been pushing, having Felix films have sound and color for years, but Pat was refusing to do it. Quote, you don't change when you're making money. Yep. Spoken like a true thief. As Mickey eclipsed Felix in popularity,

educational pictures dropped Pat Sullivan Studios. And in 1930, two years after Steamboat Willie, Pat gave in and said, okay, let's convert Felix into a sound cartoon. All right, I get it. This sound shit ain't going away. It's not a fan like I said. You definitely had the people who were like,

all right, you know. It's like Howard Sternview's podcast. It's like, enough already. It's a flesh in the pan. It's not going to hold. Yeah, okay. Is what, him with podcasts? It's a flash in the pan. Not going to hold. Yeah. Is what him with podcasts? It's insane. Is that how he is? That's hilarious. It's such a curmudgeon.

Like like it's any different. It's just people doing their own. Like it's any different. And like this idea of, you know, you need to go live in 18 different markets to fail. It's like, oh, no. OK. Okay. Cool. Yeah. We've all failed a ton. It's like whatever. Okay. So he gives in, they make a sound cartoon. It doesn't go well. Pat had fired most of the staff and replaced them with cheaper freelances. So Felix was voiced by Harry Edison,

who was a sound engineer, and whose voice was whiny and annoying. So, do you? Oh yeah, all right. All right. I fixed the chemical. Good, all right. Let's do one more.

This time, when you discover that the manhole cover is taken off of the sewer, I want you to be pretty upset about it. And then quickly jump in there. So let's hear the sound of you, how you feel the jump. We'll add the sound after. Okay. Okay, ready?

All right, here we go. And rolling, go. Okay, great. The levels are a little low on our end so we're trying to really we would really like to like let's say someone was listening to this in a car or something right now. Oh okay. We want them to turn it down when they're here. Okay so and also let's hear you take the sewer cow count. Maybe it's heavy. They're heavy. Oh, OK. All right, here we go. And go for it. Ah!

Gah! Wah! Gah-gah-bah! Gah! Gah! Bah! Good, got that. OK, great, that's good.

Now we're going to do it. Now we've got some more. Yeah, you OK? I think I'm going to take a week off. No, no, no, no, no. Nope. Not in this business. My throat is filled up with blood.

Let's hear, why don't we get one of those? Why don't you show us how that feels in your throat right now? Good, good, good. All right, great. Let's take one. I'm at what? Yeah. All right. I'm a kid. I was talking

to the guys in here. We're a little tired. We're going to take a breather. You stay in there and scream for a little while. We're going to go out for a minute. Get some, what do you call it? What's the sandwich? I'm the sound engineer. What's the sandwich? I'm the sound. Hold on. Hold on. We're trying to figure out. What's the sandwich that you dip in the au jus? What's that one called? A Russian milf. Okay. What's? Wow.

Nope. All right. That's not a good look and I've committed the ultimate sin. It's not the same time periods. It doesn't mean that. What? What are you talking about? What is a milf to you? It's just 1928 or whatever.

It's a little hairy rodent. A milf. Yeah. All right, pal. I'm not going to get about it. Oh, right. I need emotional help. Yeah. Well, look, stop. Just give us a minute.

We're figuring out what it's called. It's a hell is the same. Would you dip into? It's the eyes anyway. All right, we're going to take it to a scabbage. What? Goodbye. So we use this guy with a terrible voice. The films were made cheaply and in a rush, so the picture and sound didn't line up.

You know, there's nothing better than not making the pivot rushing it and fucking it up. It's he blockbustered. So good. He blockbustered. So good. Copley Pictures, Felix's new distributor, stopped making new Felix shorts in 1931. Again, Walt Disney tries to hire Otto away and Otto turns him down. He keeps trying the Felix cartoon strip for newspapers and Pat taking most of the profits.

Pat's ex-employee Hal Walker, quote, Pat was an alcoholic and sex maniac who used Marjorie for purposes of influencing other men. Oh my God. So that's way darker. But I don't think, I don't think that he's pimping her out. I think that- Yeah, but he's like-

Flirting and like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah. Like he probably is probably like sex, a sex maniac. Hey, go. Wow. I mean, we're all sex maniacs when we get in that situation. No, I don't agree. Which led to his next piece called Sex Maniacs. Yeah, sex maniacs. Not a great description. It's just a dog who loves to fuck. Or you could, you know, own it. Yeah, I'm a sex maniac. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a

compliment. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I can from just thinking I'm a sex maniac. So yeah, so he's probably using it to flirt or whatever. But he knows maybe maybe it's more. I'm sure she was doing well too. He's not a good guy. Well, he's not a good guy, so. Not a good guy, but the loyalty to this guy is pretty bizarre.

Yeah. So Pat uses Felix money to finance a madam and open a brothel. Okay, well. What would you do now? Definitely not go back into the animated world where I've had a tremendous amount of success even if it's on the back of others.

I obviously would start a Hooters ripoff. It's such a crazy pivot. Yeah, he's a sex maniac. So it makes sense. He's like, finally I have money to open a place where I can just fuck. Oh, can you imagine when the sex maniac boss walks into a brothel that he owns? Terrible. Yeah. Um, and of course he walked in, I'd be itching my crotch like, oh, oh hey, Pat. Oh, well, he did. He did contract syphilis there. Oh

man. Finally a contract he honored and he's married girth. Yeah, time for noses to drop. So he gave syphilis to Marjorie. Well, listen. And her body was covered in syphilis scars and went out in public. She wrapped herself in scarves to hide. She had scarves scars? She had scar scarves? Scar scarves.

Now you're just talking about Peter. She was rumored to be sleeping with their chauffeur. Gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar-gar- A minute later Marjorie fell out the window and hit the ground and died. Um, sorry, uh, define fell. Well, she's, she's, she, yeah. In my defense, your honor, I've been working in animation so intimately, I thought she'd bounce back up. So he shoved her out of a fucking window after the chauffeur left. I mean, that's how it sounds. Uh, if it's suicide or murder or an accident, it's never made clear.

A lot of people in Pat's life had their suspicions because he's a drunk, abusing maniac. And her obituary in the Times said Marjid wanted to go shopping and lean too far out the window while trying to attract the attention of the chauffeur. She didn't know. She didn't know. She didn't know what she was doing that day. God, I miss her. I do miss it so hard. I kept telling her, you don't know how to yell out windows. She was trying to grab stuff from the stores with her hands,

but we were on the seventh floor. Sweet Marge didn't understand how it worked. And nobody grieves her more than I, her loving husband, who gave her syphilis. And while we were together, committed the ultimate sin and raped a young girl basically. But none of that mattered, even though we had an argument with the chauffeur, the very chauffeur she was trying to communicate with. She just fell. She fell. And as I tried to push her back up to the balcony, I tried to shove her back up and she just, it was too late.

Huh? It sounds. I mean, it sounds suspicious. I know. No, you put it that way. I know. Yeah. I tried to shove her back up to the seventh floor as best I could. And she was fighting. She was fighting to not fall too. And I tried to shove her back up to the seventh floor as best I could. And she was fighting to not fall too.

And I tried to shove her. It was just, oh, even thinking back on it. I don't think you know how physics works. The second I saw her splat, I looked up and I said, yes, that's what I wanted. What? Yeah, I was just in a lost head space, man. I didn't know what I was just in a lost head space, man. I didn't know what I was doing at that time,

and I saw her pass away, and I said, and now I can go do what I want with my penis. Now can you do this in an Australian slash Irish accent? I was like basically like it's just a bit different, but I thought I could maybe find a way to go put it inside of a glory hole. I mean, that was much better. It was a little better.

It was a tough one. Okay, so after Marjorie's death, Pat is depressed, he falls into depression. And he drinks more. The idea of probably murdering and then being like, I'm so low. absolutely murdered absolutely I mean I guess she could have run a jump but come on now she was killed come on so he is very fucked up from years of alcoholism and syphilis and in the last year of his life he

couldn't recognize auto well to be fair he didn't really recognize him before that. Yeah, that's right. Pat Sullivan died of pneumonia. I love the simple... It's just like Felix. Oh yeah, I know him. Well, did you know that the guy, the studio was a little hijinx-y. So he dies of pneumonia and alcohol-related damage in the hospital in 1933. He was 47 years old.

Wow. His company was in shambles. He hadn't kept records for years. Pat Sullivan Studios closed down. He had no children, so the rights to Felix go to his nephew. Now Otto keeps writing and drawing the daily and Sunday Felix cartoon strips. He'd get freelance animation work. And in 1971, Pat's nephew dies. And that's when animation historians learned that Otto was the creative force,

if not the sole creative force, the main, behind Felix the Cat. And 50 years after Felix debuted, Otto was publicly recognized as his creator for the first time. When Otto, 1976, when Otto was 83, the Whitney Museum showed a retrospective of his work and the next year, animation historian John Kennemaker released a TV documentary,

Otto, Messmer, and Felix the Cat, in which Otto talked on camera about Felix and Pat Sullivan's studios for the first time. And in 1983, Otto Messmer died of a heart attack in New Jersey at the age of 91. He was survived by his first and only wife, his children and grandchildren. So at least he got the recognition before he died,

which isn't common in this sort of situation. He should have been wildly rich. He should have been way more successful and beloved. Almost, I would say, a Walt Disney type person. And he didn't get any of that because a drunken, abusive guy. I also think a lot, at least, in this business, there is this,

there are people who are geniuses, and they don't have the ability to also be, they're so fixated on the creative that they're unable to put the pieces together to be the pushy creative voice, you know, or whatever. And, you know, it's like, I mean, I'm sure we both in many circumstances have found the person who is willing to take all the credit and is not skilled at the work. That is a real, and this obviously to the nth degree, but that is a real like trope.

And I know we both personally have dealt with that before. But at least he did get recognized, but also, we're just run by fucking psychopaths. And like we were saying before, it's like, money, capitalism, exponential growth, winning the money game is truly the cultural cancer of, you know, you think of what we could have and how money completely fucks all of that up. Well, it's a system in which once a guy's rich, everyone goes, you're awesome. Nobody is ever like, so how'd you do that exactly? Yeah. And nobody's ever like, dude, that's like, that's your clinically insane for wanting

to have a trillion dollars. Yeah, you're insane. You're an insane. Think of what the internet could have done and instead we're like, we got to get rid of it. Right now we're like, oh, so it's going to destroy the world. No, we're fully just like, oh yeah, like AI, like let's go. And I was talking to my brother last night, we were fully just like, oh yeah, like AI, like let's go. And I was talking

to my brother last night, we were sort of talking about all that stuff. And it was just like, you know, okay, go run your little project for every, if you just gave everyone a UBI, and we just had that, and that was just kind of built in, then it's like, all right, at least then we're not thinking like, oh, yeah, nobody's going to have anything and you're trying to do that as soon as possible. Right. Yeah. You get to have all the money.

Anyway, dollapodcast.com. Dollheads, bring your dollheads. Get them on stage. We love them. So this was written, or the research written by Sarah Sabzi and Sarah, always Sarah, apologies. And sources are Wild Minds by Reed Mittenbuehler, Felix by John Kennemecker, and The Birth of an Industry by Nicholas Samand in the New York Times.

Boy, boy oh boy. Well, we are are thought it was just a cute little cat. I thought it was gonna be Tom and Jerry That's right. I thought we were headed. Oh Yeah, no that story is much worse No, that one's actually dark I don't actually know but you know, it's funny is, that was my favorite cartoon growing up, Tom and Jerry. Yeah, it was awesome. Insanely violent. Oh God.

Like off the charts violence. Like crazy off the charts violence. The older I get, the more I'm like, I'm like, Lylee Coyote really, fuck the Road Runner. There's this whole thing where everyone's like, well, all these older people had lead and that's why they're all like this.

And while yes, I think that's a big part of it, but I also think like the media, the culture we absorbed was so fucking seeped in violence. It's crazy. Go watch the three stooges. Watch the three stooges. Yeah. Like we were just comfortable with it. Yeah. Super comfortable. Yeah. comfortable with it. Yeah.

Super comfortable. Yeah. Still is funny. Yeah. All right, well thank you for listening and- You're welcome, mate. Remember- No problem.

Remember, Gareth is a problem. What? That's our new close. Who's your deal? No, I'm not. I'm fantastic. Hey, Dollop fans, I know you love the dollop, you love listening to the dollop. Do you want to watch the dollop?

You're like, Gareth, what are you talking about? By the way, it's not Gary, it's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a five-part animation which is actually like a 22 minute episode or 30 minute episode I can't remember of the Rube you can go to Lakeside animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome animation of the Rube it it really genuinely kicks ass and we're very proud of it and the

more you share it the more you give it to people the more you follow Lakeside all that stuff the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch the Rube.