The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds - Jock and The Boston Marathon Women

Episode Date: May 29, 2016

Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds examine, Jock Semple, Katherine Switzer, Bobbi Gibb and The Boston Marathon. SOURCESTOUR DATES REDBUBBLE MERCH

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I read a story to my friend. You fucked it up again. This is the Dalop. You're listening to the Dalop. This is an American History podcast where every week, I explain a story from American His. I fucked it up too.

Hello. You're listening to The Dollop. This is an American History podcast. Each week, I read a story from American History. No, you did it too. You fucked it up. Hi, you're listening to the Dollop. This is an American History podcast.

Each week I read a story from a... I think maybe you do say it twice. No, I don't. Hey, you're listening to The Dalup. This is an American History podcast. each week, I read a story to my friend. No, it feels weird. Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the intro is going to be.

Come on, one more. This one's over. Here we go. No, come on. Come on. Hey, you're listening to The Dollop. This is an American History podcast each week. I write a story to my friend.

Gareth, Reith Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. I don't want to be alive anymore. We're dead. God, do you want to look here to do? I'll do one button. People say this is funny? Not Gary Gerew. Dave, okay.

Someone or something is Ticklick. Is it for fun? And this is not going to come the Tickleagliq podcast. Okay. You are Queen Fanky of Made Up Town. All hail Queen Shit of Lysville. A bunch of religious virgins go to mingle. And do

what? Pray. Hi, Gary. No. I see done, my friend. No. No. Um, June. And can I say this? We got through it together? I don't know if that's true. Yeah, we held each other's hands and we got through it.

People don't need to do that. Come on. Jose took off. We're shirtless. We're holding hands and we each have crowns on. For people who like the visual. That's how we do it.

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comedians doing them on. There's a lot of great comedians. There are some really good podcasts on there. I recommend it. October 26th, 1903. Jock Semple was born in Glasgow, Scotland. Oh, light, what I'm hearing? What's the name?

Jock. Jock. Jock. Jock. When he was 14, he landed a job working nine-hour days at the Singer's sewing machine plant in Clyde Bank. Okay. Looking up.

Yeah, sure. He ran his first track race, which was in the factory, track meat. Okay. You mean it was a, it wasn't in meat? I'll stop. It was not a meat factory. Okay. A regular factory.

It's an actual track meat. Right. Just track meat are in the factory. Right. Yeah. Cool racing. He wore a bathing suit. Of course.

bloody dead. Could I get soaking. Pool party. And in front of a crowd of 2000, he ran to victory in the 100-yard dash. The fact that he, how like, how could you

watch? I don't, just the idea of watching races is just it's far gone. They didn't have much then. No. And that's a testament. The crowd cheered beg sample. He was already 5-8, which was apparently pretty large for Scotland,

and since he was only 14, he became known as Big Semple of Clyde Bank from then on. Big what? Semple. S-E-M-P-L-E. Okay, simple. Okay, big simple. Jock had a terrible case of asthma, but he discovered that five miles... Gosh, I'm not...

God. He discovered that five-mile cross-country races improved his condition. Hey, of course I weren't. Bloody Saints, isn't it? And they were good for his social life. Quote. I should let you read this. Okay.

This is the second paragraph. This is where we find out I can't read. Second paragraph. Wait, oh, where? Right where it says they. Okay. They were a social outing too. We used to start from the public bass and run through the plowed fields over ditches and

dikes through streams that were swollen up to your knees. Oh, it was. was grand being out there in the fresh air every Saturday and sometimes the more prosperous Harry clubs are at a clubhouse and they'd have a cup of tea and a couple of cakes waiting when you come in

I think he made the right choice running for sandwiches basically it doesn't take much because times are hard in Scotland his father pushed him to leave and he did Boy, go. Get out. Run.

Creson. Hurry. Get the fuck out. I'm fucking here. Good luck. He went to the U.S. when he's 19 years old. He lived seven years in Philadelphia, working as a carpenter in the shipyards and in the construction industry. His brother lived in Boston, and when their mother came for a visit in 1930, Jock decided to see her hitchhiking up. While he was there, he entered the Boston Marathon.

You're listening to Raceway. week on the dollar. Yeah, really. Although this one's first. Well, you don't know it, but you're in racing week. These are call-aheads.

To his surprise, about halfway through the race, he was near the head of the pack. Bloody hell. He was running along with the top runners at the time. Six-time winner Clarence Damar, known as Mr. Demarathon.

Ooh. Ooh. You're living in the era of the worst nickname. De Marathon John C. Miles, the Nova Scotian. He's got to have a nickname too, right?

He must have, but I mean, Miles. Miles. Hey, Miles, you're gonna, Hey, Miles! Let's just call him Miles. No, no, no. Hey, yeah, let's just stick with Miles. Yeah, now that I'm actually at the edge, yeah, Miles works.

There were two fins, Willie Criening and Carl Koski. Jock passed the Great Hinky Heinegan and moved into eighth place. Take care, Hinky. College girls cheered him on. He was living the greatest moment of his life. Jock finished seventh and his mom was waiting for him at the finish line.

Oh, Jock, I'm so bloody played. He was hooked and decided to stay in Boston. Okay. He got a job as a locker room boy for $11 a week. That's a shit pay. Yeah, just suck it. What? Just suck.

Oh, sorry. Here's my towel. He would never finish as high as seventh again, but he ran in the marathon each year. He thought it was a privilege to run with runners that he described as dedicated. Okay. When World War II came, Jock tried to sign up, but a Navy corpsman told him he couldn't because he had flat feet. Wow. That's who cares?

Jock yelled. Like in the army today, I mean, what is? Oh, God. Fuck him. I mean, you're- Put him in heels. Get them out there. Your fucking liver could be on the outside.

And he'd be like, get out and get going. Here, we'll put camo on it. Jock yelled, quote, What the hell are you talking about? That's Irish. That's okay. It was okay. What the hell are you talking about?

These feet cover 3,500 miles a year. But it's true. I mean, how does it, like, how do they not, like, your feet are too flat? You wouldn't be able to make it. Motherfucker, all I do is run. The Navy then reversed their decision. Okay, all right. After the war, Jock used the GI Bill to get a diploma in 1947 from the Massachusetts School of Physiotherapy and started working at the Boston Garden in a small office.

Okay. There he gave massages to businessmen and ended up working for 18 years as the trainer for visiting NBA teams. Okay. It would sit on the visitor's bench and sometimes chase children off the floor or shout at a rude fan. Keep quiet, dude! Get out of here, kiddies. Jock ran in the Boston Marathon for years, but after the 1949 race at age 46,

he decided his responsibilities as a marathon official hampered proper training. Okay. Right, so now he's working for the marathon. Right. Doing the business. At 9 a.m. every morning, Jock would head down a corner

in an office building annexed to the Boston Garden where the Southwix played. He had a small office room, crammed with desks, filing cabinets, and hundreds of dusty trophies. in the back was another room with three rub-down tables, a whirlpool, and heat lamps, a steam cabinet, and a shower.

This was known as the Salon de Slabs. Okay. As the years passed, word spread through Boston. If you wanted to cure a hangover, the way to do it was to go to the salon deslobs for the works. Okay. Which was time in the sauna, then a whirlpool and a rub down,

and at the end, Jock would crack your neck. Oof. It's all right. Right, take a deep breath in. Let her out. And there you are. Who's dead? He's just killing him.

Oh, Christ, I'll get it right someday. There's a fucking hangar. Put him in the pile. I cared you. You don't have a bloody hangover anymore, do you, me? Go ahead. In the dumpster with you. After a while, pro and college athletes started coming to Jock whenever their trainers

couldn't fix their issues. He should have called this place a shock strap. Oh, fuck. I mean... I mean... Maybe too much for the time, but a great... I'm too much for the time. I hear you.

You still are. You always will be. Yeah, you're a bit more. Will I... Yeah, right? Okay. I just want to make sure someday. You're a lot.

I'm okay. This is getting a little too real. I'd like to get back on topic, please. So, yeah, so these pro guys and these pro guys and these... These college guys would come without telling their coaches or their trainers who weren't doing the job because jock was like the fucking man. They had like some side action. Yeah, he was like the side action guy. DL.

Jock's the DL. And then like he goes to like the regular trainers and he's like, boy, your back sure is loose today. Did you do anything? No, I mean, I did a little stretching at home, but nothing professional. I didn't, yeah. No, I didn't go down. I wasn't at the, uh, nope. Kind of a smell like chlorine a little.

No. No, it's, uh, I would. I took chlorine pills for fever. Oh, okay. All right. Well, let me just crack your neck and then we'll get you out of here. No! What?

It's cracked. My mom cracked. My mom, well, not like a professional. Let me get my hands on that. My mom's a professional neck cracker. She works for the ballet. If you were going to another trainer, you would have the respect to tell me, right? Yeah, I would never lie to you.

You wouldn't lead me on. I would jock, no. Sorry, what? I didn't say any words. Okay, I thought that... Okay. I love you. You're my favorite trainer.

I love you too. Okay. Come here. He didn't make much money. Here, you little bitch? No, hey. Get in here. He didn't make much money and barely got by.

This might be why he worked seven days a week. But money didn't mean much to jock. What he really cared about was the Boston Marathon. Okay. Quote. He said, adorable. He's like a kid who loves a character at Disney. Right?

Oh, bloody love my marathon. Fucking love it. Johnny, need my sleep. Marathon's a month away. Quote, to me it's sacred. I know what it is to train for it and to suffer. Hey. On Marathon Day, he'd be up at 6 a.m.

Passed. Oh, I'm bloody excited. It's my big day. It's Christmas. This is my blood at Christmas. Oh, barely slept. Yeah. He'd pass out checkpoint signs. And then he'd pass out checkpoint signs. he'd heard the runners into buses to take them to the starting pen.

Sorry, these are runners or cattle? Yes. Okay. He'd always find some stowaways who weren't registers. Out, you bum! Out, out, out, out! Oh, that would be getting caught by a Scotsman as a stowaway runner, the nerves? The best thing ever.

O'y, I see a bloody shoe lace. Come out from under there! He was constantly phoned by wannabe runners to ask about how they could get into the marathon. He was not always nice. Shocking. As one reporter witnessed, quote.

Oh, boy. One thing you just might do, Jock shouts into the phone, is try running 26 miles and see if you can. Oh, you know you can do you? Well, then tell me what kind of time you're planning to do the marathon in? 2.10.

Did you say 210? Jock's face goes red. Well, forget the whole thing, because you're not where they're, the event and we don't want to hear any more of your crap. Jock slams down receiver, nearly breaking it in two. That was a reporter who witnessed

that. So what you're going to do the story about? Well, I think I've got an angle. He hated these guys who didn't take the race seriously. These screwballs. Oh, dude. Sorry, I just saw. These screwballs.

These weirdies. These MIT boys. These toughs characters. These Harvard guys. They ain't me asking. Should they put on spiked shoes for a marathon? He was happy to help the dedicated who took training seriously. But the ones he called Smart Alex and Fatso's. Well, he would quickly lose his shit just thinking about them, quote.

Port Belies. Port Belies! You should see him. Some of them took six hours turn on the course. I once walked it in four and a half. Oh man. I was going to print you up pages to read, but I... I just want to know if I booked the part.

I didn't have enough time. So funny. Jock and the others running the marathon considered to be the second biggest sport and others running, not running. Right. The guys who were in charge of it. Right.

No, the guy's running, the race, racing in it. Right. No, not the guy's racing in it. The guy's running it. It was on first. Okay. By the way, I could have done that for 40 more minutes. I know.

I know. It considered to be the second biggest sporting event in the world just behind the Olympics. And now it was being filled with assholes running about, treating it with disrespect. Oh, boy. I know somebody's not going to be happy about that. The event field on the day was now filled with jugers and odd balls. There were college freshmen running as part of fraternity hazing. Big fat men who shouldn't be walking 10 blocks, drunks from bars who had made a bet,

just tons of guys who weren't serious and Jock couldn't handle it These bloody drunk college children Just doing it to pledge a bloody fraternity I will have my day I will have my day Oh sorry is that door open No I just got a little braveheartedly

Oh sorry didn't mean to Hmm Well fun But the operator is still trudged on And treated it with respect Trovees and medals were given To the first 35 finishers And everyone would give

get a cup of beef stew, a cupcake, and a glass of milk at the end. I mean, I'm sure you're hungry. What? Just doesn't sound like what you're craving, necessarily. I can't wait to finish and have some stew and milk. Oh, it's all worth it now. Oh, gosh. Boy, I'll tell you what I don't want, water.

Oh, fuck, water. Milk is really, I'm sorry, I think a cake is forming in my throat. I'm in a big old cup. of thick beef water. Is there any way to get a milkshake? Red Arbach, who worked in the garden, who ran the Celtics,

couldn't understand it. Quote, I followed them into the hotel once. I was curious to have a look, figuring they'd have a special chef behind a great big pile of steaming stew. Well, they're pouring it out of cans. It was canned beef stew. It was goddamn canned beef stew.

I couldn't believe it. It really, I mean, that really tells you about the difference in times, too. Totally. Like cans and hours kind of fancy. Boston A.A., amateur, Atlantic meat director, Will Cloney, countered that it wasn't just any canned stew. It was dinty Moore stew. Mr.

Quote, Bart Starr says the Green Bay Packers train on dinty Moore. God damn right, they do. But in 1965, the finish line was moved. Can we talk about the Packers more? In 1965, the finish line was moved. And after that, the runners got homemade stew in the employee's cafeteria at Prudential Tower. Okay.

All right. Shut your face, Red Hourback. Yeah. If it wasn't cloney setting the record straight, Jock would have. He didn't like people laughing at the marathon. He didn't want... He's just like a weird guy who, like, thinks he has a connection to birds. Respect it.

Hey. You, the birds are my only real friends. They understand me the way humans couldn't. I love you, Boston Marathon. You're my everything. It's my guard. I have proposed to raise enough money to put a vagina on the Boston Marathon so I met Consumet, my love.

Time out. Can we do a timeout? What I can do what I like? We would not like to do that. I think if there's a way to just get a vagina on it. It's not a marathon. I want to fuck. The marathon.

Right, but it's not a thing. I need it. I've already finished it. Now I want to finish inside of it. Okay. What? Jock, we're going to send you to this little home up the street. Ooh, I like homes.

It's for special people. I'm very special. Yep, and you'll stay there in a little jacket. Oh, I like jackets too. And hopefully I can meet Mrs. Boston Marathon up there for a little commotion. Bit of the old in-out, in-out, you know what I mean? Yummy. Oh, I feel a little bit sick.

Had some dinty more He didn't want the thing He believed in So much being mocked Which is why he probably took Some fairly rash actions Scotland could be called rash action It is just like

Even like Scottish people seem mad when they're not mad And when they're mad You're like What the fuck is this level My uncle one time freaked out When my cousin dropped a jar of pickles And they smashed

you would have thought that she like kicked a Monet. That is a Scottish Monet. He was, it was like, dude, we'll go by more. He's like, that's bloody ridiculous. They're bloody ruined. I was like, they're fucking, they're cucumbers and vinegar, sir. Jesus. That's amazing.

When one runner wore an Uncle Sam's outfit and carried an ad. Oh, no, he didn't. For Storm Windows on his back. Wait, what about Windows? He had an ad for storm windows on his back. Jock ran up beside him carrying a tray in one hand. Oh, boy. It was full of cups of water.

As Jocked, as Jock matched Uncle Sam stride for stride, he would pick up a cup of water and throw it in the runner's face. Oh, to be watching that part of it. What is happening? How is that not on film? Let him drink it. I don't think you'd do it. Let him drink it. Holy shit.

Oh, you like that, huh? You got any storm windows on your bloody face? Huh? Maybe you brought a storm window on your stupid uncle Sam head, huh? On a rainy day in the 1957 marathon, as it passed through Framingham, jock saw a runner wearing an underwater mask with a snorkel and webbed a snorkeler's shoes.

Oh, oh, boy. Just to see his face. Just to watch the red. Like a cartoon, like you're, Bessimdi Sam, like just steam coming out. Redder than Auerbach. He charged the snorler. I just, I mean, right away, just imagining a Scottish man in love with a marathon

chasing a land snorkeler. Like, he must, him processing it. Oh, fuck. He charged the snorler and attempted to make a flying tackle. But the snorler jumped out of the way and Jock missed. and he landed face down in a gutter full of water. I'm drowning. I need you snorkel! Hand me your snorkel, snorkel, mine! I'm falling into a lake!

I'm not good to sclimber. The Framingham police wanted to arrest Jock for attempted assault, but other race officials were able to talk them down. No, you don't understand. He's just crazy about the race. Yeah, he just really likes the race. He's crazy. About the race. You know how you love your children? Yeah. his race or the race is his children.

That's interesting. He has. Well, no, I shouldn't say. No, they're not his children because he wants to have sex with the race. Officer, is there a problem? We're just talking about how much you like the race. Oh, well, you know, we're talking next year about installing a vagina. Okay, we're going to actually...

We're going to put it right towards the end. Yeah, we're going to run as go around me. All right, sir, stop talking. I'll be finishing inside. You have the right to remain silent. I choose to wave that right. Please. Woo!

I beg you. I love it. I love my marathon. In the 1961 marathon, two runners were neck and neck in the lead. When a black dog started nipping at one of their heels, then tripped him. Jock lost it. Blood did dog? He ran over and tried to kick the dog, but missed.

He's really his aims off, huh? Yeah, he's not good at stuff. It's so hot that his aim goes off. The dog just ran off, and Jock went on to the press bus and begged the reporters not to mention it. Concerned about the SPCA. Listen, I'm... Is everyone anyone want water or anything? Anyone need any stew, anything?

So, yeah, I'm just curious, the angle on the matter... Oh, right, sorry. If we could Sort of sweep another rag of thing Where I tried to pet the dog With my foot No That wasn't a pet

Well if I may It was actually What I'm from You start with a foot Pet with a foot first Why don't? Well, you know Don't we get hair all over your hand

So when I tried to pet it And slipped I don't know if you saw me slip in a smidge Slip to touch So you fall on that You saw the lead up to that Then my foot went and some said it looked like I kicked the dog

Anyway, I don't think that's worthy of the paper So if you could just You know, just go with the other But writer John Galooley put it in this column Quote Jock Simple was asked what kind of dog it was That he tried to kick

And Jock said it was a son of a bitch It's a It's a mutt But that mother's definitely son of a bitch What kind of dog? This guy's just... He loves this marathon. Oh, he's amazing.

He didn't just work on the Boston Marathon. Back then, there were a select few guys running marathons, and they'd pitch in with each others. You could find Jock all up and down the East Coast at races, shouting, arguing with traffic cops, chasing kids off bicycles, while making sure the race was run. Without a race, he's just a lunatic. Basically, yeah. Yeah. Jock was always the game. guy that made things work.

At a yonkers marathon, he drove through the runners in his car and got out front and then began honking his horn, yelling for people, to clear the road. Move! The idea that he drove through the runners to be like, look out for

distractions. Sort of like the car. Oh, fuck. Move! Bobby Gibb was born on November 2nd in 1942 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. She was a teen in the 50s when decent women just worked jobs until they found a husband. Decent women did not run. Quote, you started to become a woman and suddenly there were all these

incredible constraints. I could see coming down the line that I was going to have to live in a box as a woman, literally locked up in a house. We were expected to be housewives and that's all. We weren't expected to have minds. We weren't expected to have bodies that ran. She was pre-med in college, but as a teen, began running four or five miles through the woods near her home. In 1964, she saw the Boston Marathon on TV for the first time, and right there, she knew she'd run in that race someday. So I'm guessing we're going to find out how Jock feels about this, and it's hard for me to know which way he's going to swim. He's kicking dogs. He's throwing water at Uncle Sam.

it's tough she started training on her own running in nurses shoes because women's running shoes were not made wow isn't that amazing that in fucking

1966 there were no women's running shoes you fucking people act like this country is so far advanced but that's think about how close in time that is that's fucking insane and don't you think in a way

the reason why we still have like sexism and racism is because we haven't fully processed what just happened. Not at all. Not even remotely if we processed. That is crazy. No one...

No one thinks about this. Except, of course, women who understand what the struggle is back. I'm actually like, no, it's legal. It's fine. You're good. We're just going to tell you what you can do with your bodies. Okay? All right.

Sound good? Good deal? Does that sound good, ladies? Good deal. You guys can run, but then we get control of the most of the... All the parts. All the parts, really. going to put stuff in and then not let you do anything with it. Okay.

We'll decide what your body feels like. We're white. Oh, we should do a musical. In 1966, Roberta Bobby Gibb applied to enter the Boston Marathon but was denied. Will Clooney, the Boston Marathon race director that year, wrote to her and explained that women were not capable of running a marathon. I'm sorry, you foolish, foolish girl. It's for your own good. You see, your legs will drop off.

Oh, not far. The most woman could run was only a mile and a half. That was the longest AAU sanctioned race. Can I run it 20 times? At the time, it was believed running could lead to women having big legs, growing hair on their chests, and their uterus is falling out. God. It's for your own good. She started as a woman and now she's a barren ape. A tall one.

I told you. A barren one. I told you. Hey. Oh, what are you doing? Oh, is he between the windows? What was happening there? He's like, he likes the window sill, but then he likes to like... Oh, he was getting up in the window. Yeah, he's fine, but it's just, he's...

Yeah, he's in between windows. Jose was between the screen and the window. He was getting up in there, too. That's actually the title of his book, caught between a screen and a window. Oh, it's going to be great. Yeah. It's mostly just ink paws. Many literally thought women would die if they ran a marathon.

And it's just founded in total nonsense. Yeah, there's absolutely no... Just because. Just because men. Just because white men. People had thought this for a long time. But Gib knew this wasn't true because she wasn't a fucking moron. Quote, at that point, I was enraged.

here they were stopping me from doing what I love because I belong to a certain class of person. It was a double bind. How could you prove you can do something if you're not allowed to do it? Well, that's the whole point, missy. Yeah, you've really condensed what we're saying. So Bobby Gibb set out to prove everyone wrong. Now, she had trained and ran up to 40 miles. So she was a chimpanzee.

In the morning of the race, in 1966, she hid in the bushes, of the start. When the starting gun went off, she just eased into the middle of the pack. Oh, boy. I think I know which way our boy's going. Bobby was wearing boy's sneakers, her brother's Bermuda shorts, a bathing suit, and a sweatshirt to hide her figure, and put the hood up to hide her hair. Okay. So she's just like the unabomber in a one piece. From, right. From a ways off, she looked like a man, but close up, her fellow racers knew right away, she was a woman, and they were supportive. Even going as far as to tell her, if anyone tried to stop her from finishing, they would not allow it.

I'm excited. Well, I wish. So she started feeling more comfortable, and she took off her sweatshirt, and now everyone knew a woman was running in the race. Instead of booing or setting her on fire, the men cheered and women cried as she passed by. A local radio, well, imagine this. Yeah, I get it. Imagine it's the fucking mid-60s. It's just every time I say it, it makes my mind.

Centuries ago. Yeah, so it's centuries. The dark ages. It's the mid-60s. You know what you're capable of. You know, because of your body, that you're able to do this shit. And you actually are seeing for the first time a woman going, fuck you. They might have been crying because they knew she was going to die in 0.5 miles.

That's what I'm talking about. Well, how many of these women were terrified their uterus is going to fall out? Oh, God. I hope one of the male runners doesn't slip on her womb. But see, we told you someone who'd get hurt. Well. And now a uterus is on the ground. That gentleman has a broken leg.

Wait a minute. There's a uterus on the ground of the Boston Marathon. This is what I've been waiting for. Oh, I can have a half marathon with her finally. Ah, gonna make some haggis. Oh, I finally get my dream of consummating with the marathon. Gonna put one in her. Oh, God.

A local radio station started reporting. her progress. When she passed Wellesley College, the women's students were waiting, screaming, and cheering. Bobby knew how important this was. I was actually running way slower than I wanted to. I was saving my energy because I knew that the worst thing that could happen would be if I didn't finish. I had this huge weight of responsibility on me. Here I was making this very public statement. If I had collapsed or hadn't finished, I would have set women back another 50 years or maybe longer. Bobby Gibb, who did not have her uterus fallout, finished ahead of 290 of the race's 415 official entrance.

Okay. She had a running time of three hours, 21 minutes. Wow, that's really good. The governor met her at the finish line and shook her hand. Bobby thought her running of the marathon in a good time when opened up the race to women. It was proof women were strong enough to run the full marathon. Now, he didn't come after her. and I could not find any reason why.

But I'm assuming that he was concerned about all the positive news coming out, right? So it's on the radio. The governor's coming down. Like everyone is saying this is awesome. Right. But he's... So I think he didn't know what to do. He's just sitting in a cold hot tub making it boil with his rage.

An article appeared in Sports Illustrated title, a game girl and a man's game. I would say the biggest difference we have between history is how you title articles. I mean, a girl. The way they start. Girl. Yeah, a girl. Girl.

Quote, last week, a tidy looking and pretty 23-year-blonde named Roberta. Not only started, but also covered the 26-mile 395 course. Leading us to believe she's immortal. Now, let's just take a look at that sentence. Super hot chick first. Second, she did this thing. Yeah. But in the 1967 marathon was still not open to women.

A year later. Jock wasn't opposed to women running, but those were the rules. Okay. From the top, you know, just couldn't knock that. I'm not opposed to women's athletics, but we're taught to respect laws, to respect rules. The amateur roles here say A woman can't run more than a mile and a half I'm in favour of making their races longer

But they don't belong with the men They don't belong running with Jim Ryan Right? You wouldn't like to see a woman running With Jim Ryan, would you? From then on, Jock would call her the Gibdame Who's she kidding? She runs in leotards and all that Why don't she even running women's events?

She never does. The Gibb Dame don't run in anything. He's like that Trumpian nicknames. Oh, sweaty Bobby. Crooked Bobby. Catherine Switzer was born on January 5th, 1947, and raised in Fairfax County, Virginia. Catherine wanted to be a cheerleader, but her father didn't want that for his daughter, explaining that it was better to be cheered for.

Yeah, because they really are cheer followers if you think about it. Well, if you think about it, at this time, for you to be someone who breaks through and does something important, you have to have either a father or a mother who's saying, go fucking do it. Probably more importantly to have a father because he is part of the system that's keeping you down, right? Ironically, women needed balls. That's what I'm talking about. but I think You need to have the influence You have to have a parent saying

No, it's all bullshit Right Right Yeah, you definitely I mean I don't think you can come I mean yeah I think you have to have some influence To know that something is unfair yes

Yeah Catherine started running when she was 12 Her father pushed her into it Telling her Literally get in the race Jesus Dave Can we not take phone calls during the show? I'm sorry

It's uh It's uh my dog's ready Is that him calling? Yeah, he calls me. I would like to be picked up, Matt. Her father pushed her into running, telling her running a mile a day would help her earn a spot on the school field hockey team. This was when no one was running on the streets, especially not girls. But Catherine was soon running three miles a day.

She would even run a mile after hockey training, although her coach held it against her, saying if she had the energy to run after practice, she wasn't trying hard enough during practice. Okay. Yeah, all right. Catherine went to Lynchburg College. Okay. If anybody doesn't know, it's crazy religious, town, crazy religious college. Our numbers there are great.

In Lynchburg? Oh, yeah, big fans. Really? Yeah, oh, yeah. Our numbers have spiked there. At the school, she was spotted by the school's track and field coach, since there was no women's team, because there were no women's teams anywhere.

He asked her to run for the men's team. So naturally, the people of Lynchburg College lost their shit. Of course. Yeah, she shouldn't be doing that. She was in the press and now receiving hate mail that warned her God would strike her down for the obscene practice of running with men. So can't you, like, doesn't that let you see that how, like, God over the years, like, he's just getting pit, like, they were, they, they, swore that he would be livid about women running. Yeah.

Well, it turns out he's not. He's cool with it and they're running everywhere. So now he's livid that gay people that exist. But eventually you'll be like, oh, no, it's fine now. Everything's normal. I mean, let's just, you know, they started with saying that black people weren't equal to white people and now their battle is not, now they're battling over where certain people can shit.

Like, that's where their battle is gone. From the overall equality of. of black people to that person can't shit here. So they're losing their battle pretty fucking strongly. Yeah. Yes. Their argument is in the toilet. It is literally in the toilet now.

Which can be used by any gender. So in December 1966, Catherine meant Arnie Briggs, who had been training for years with the Syracuse team. So he's an older guy that's been training with him. Arnie was the University of mailman and had run in 15 Boston marathons. He started working with Catherine and soon had her running 10 miles per training session. But when she said she wanted to run the Boston Marathon, he said, No woman can run the Boston Marathon.

I know. He's training her. I know. Okay. It's fucking crazy. Okay. Arne insisted it was too far for a fragile woman to run and then lost his shit when Catherine brought up Bobby Gibb.

Quote, No game has ever run the Boston Marathon. If a woman could do it, you could, but you have to prove it to me. If you ran the distance and practice, I'd be the first to take you to Boston. So he's like a climate denier. Climate change denier in the fact that he doesn't think

Bobby Gibb actually did it. He kind of thinks it's a myth. Well, look, the jury's still out. I think we could say that. So she trained. There's a lot of scientists who don't think she ran. Right. 11%.

1%. Yeah, it's 1.7%. But they're pretty strong unit. Right. So, Catherine trained and trained. Three weeks before the marathon, Catherine and Arnie ran 26 miles. And he was like, all right. I know you have a twin sister.

And then Catherine looked at him and said, I'm not done. And she insisted they run five miles more. Oh, boy. How about that? Stick that up your ass. I'm curious what his reaction. Arnie had no argument. He agreed she could run. All right.

I guess you can. But Arne declared she had to register first, or she'd be in the shit with the amateur athletics union. An organization that still didn't think women could run without their uteruses falling out, even though a woman had already run a marathon. She must have, like, taped her vagina or something. She put a plug-in. Clearly she had a plugin. Obviously. Arnie and Catherine checked the rulebook.

There was no mention of gender. No official guidelines whatsoever. It's inferred. Right. Bobby Gibb had been denied due to women being, due to being a woman, but there was no official rule barring a woman. They just assumed that it was so outlandish and insane that they didn't have to put it. in the rule book. Right.

Yeah, well, it's like... It's like saying, we don't have rules against turtles driving cars. It's like that's... In kids movies, like there'll always be like a moment in like a movie where like there's like a council of judges

and someone will be like, I don't see anything in the rule book that says that a Sasquatch can't play basketball. Catherine signed her entry form, KV, Switzer, to avoid detection as a woman. She sent it in along with the $2 entry fee. Her boyfriend, Tom Miller, was a 235-pound ex-all-American football player and a nationally ranked hammer thrower.

Whoa. I assume a hammer throwing is some sort of track and field thing as opposed to a guy just running around throwing hammers. No, he's a furious carpenter. Okay. Yeah, no. It is not a sport. He's been jailed.

Oh, Jesus. Yeah, no, it's homicidal. Okay. Yeah. Tom now said he was going to run in the marathon But they didn't need to train because quote If a girl can run a marathon I could run a marathon Sounds like she was probably in a pretty healthy relationship

He seems supportive So he's just running Because he doesn't want his girlfriend to out athletic him Well and plus you're going to want someone to carry your uterus Cross the finish line for you Don't leave it out Well, I mean, still to this day, the Boston Marathon, they give you a uterus bag. Yeah, no, that's the big silver thing at the end.

Well, in case it falls out during the race, you can quickly capture it. No, yeah, you got to run with a little, like, basket under you that sort of just drapes. On the morning of April 18, 1967, Catherine decided she wanted to look feminine, so she put on lipstick and gold earrings. Oh, boy. But it was cold and snowy, so she also put on a big sweatshirt. at the gate Boston Athletic Association officials in long overcoats and felt dress hats were checking the numbers of the racers. They were either too in a hurry to notice or didn't care that she was a woman because she got through. Catherine put on her number at 261 and started warming up.

Then men began to approach her and wish her good luck. Tom saw her lipstick and told her to take it off because he was worried she'd be noticed, but Catherine refused. The gun went off. And Catherine ran with Arnie Tom and another runner from the Syracuse team. The first couple of miles went with no problems. They ran beside each other, getting a few cheers from spectators. The uterus about to drop, isn't it? But they would not remain anonymous for long.

At mile four, a press truck pulled up beside them with the cameras on. Catherine was the first woman wearing a number, and the press knew this was a big deal. As soon as the press were on it, Jock Semple knew. Jock was not happy. That's what I wanted to hear. That she

had managed to hoodwink officials and get a number. Jock was in another truck that he ordered to pull ahead of Catherine. Oh, dear me. Follow that woman. He then leapt out, and he

stood in the middle of the road in his overcoat and felt hat shaking his finger at Catherine. No, no, no, no, note, noate, as she passed, he said to something she did not understand. Then he reached for her hand. He just got a hold of her glove instead and ripped it off. She had to do a stutter step to get around. At first she thought he was just some crazy spectator. Well, in a way. Right.

I mean, you can be both. He's both. But then she saw that he had a blue and gold BAA ribbon on his lapel. But Jock wasn't done. Quote, moments later, I heard the scraping noise of leather shoes coming up fast behind me. When a runner hears that kind of noise, it's usually danger, like hearing a dog's pause on the pavement. Instinctively, I jerked my head around quickly and looked square into the most vicious face I'd ever seen. Oh, jeez.

A big man, a huge man, with bare teeth. teeth was set to pounce. And before I could react, he grabbed my shoulder and flung me back, screaming, Get the hell out of my race and give me those numbers! Oh, Jesus, Jack. No. Jock was livid because this was Bobby Gibbs all over again, but worse. Now this woman had a number.

She was official, and there were not supposed to be women officially in the race. There is now a famous photo. Catherine nervously looking over her shoulder. as stocky old jock, brown hair blowing in the wind, face twisted with rage, is clutching for Catherine. This was the culmination of all the weirdos who had been ruining his race. Quote, then he swiped down my front, trying to rip off my bib number. Just as I leapt backward from him, he missed the numbers, but I was so surprised and frightened that I slightly wet my pants and turned to run. Whoa.

but now the man at the back of my shirt and was swiping at the bib number on my back I was making little cries of not thinking at all just trying to get away when I saw tiny brave Arnie batted him and tried to push him away

shouting leave her alone jock I've trained her she's okay leave her alone and the man screamed stay out of this Arnie and swatted him away like a gnat what See, I would watch marathons if this shit happened.

Fucking the best. Now remember, Miles 16, a lunatic Scottish man's going to try to denumber you. Because of your gender. Because of your gender. But now her boyfriend, Tom Miller, had had enough. I was going to say. Using his 285 pounds, he body slammed Jock with a well-placed shoulder block. Jock hit the ground winded.

Arnie yelled at Catherine to run like hell. they took off. As they ran, Arnie was saying he was going to kill Jock. Oh, geez. A press truck pulled up beside them with three feet of runners. A photographer hung out, getting some nice face shots of her. Then riders in the back of the truck started questioning her. What are you trying to prove? When are you going to quit? What happened with that Scottish man a mile ago? When are you going to quit? Yeah, no, that's good. before stuff starts falling out, when do you think you'll wrap this up? And how will you lead your life with no children?

Are you worried that your family name will die with you? How will you get along with a hairy chest? What do you think your ovulation cycle's going to be like after this? You're about to be deuterized. What do you live like as a man? Huh? Can we look at your ovaries? Now, Catherine was mad, but she also calmed down and told them,

she wasn't trying to prove anything. All she wanted to do was run. But she was humiliated by what had happened and wanted to drop out of the race. But that wasn't an option. There was too much riding on the first woman with a number running the Boston Marathon. If she dropped out, people would say women couldn't run a marathon.

So she kept on. She knew she would finish, even if it was on her knees. Of course, Jock wasn't done. Oh, boy. It's really pitting, my understanding for the plight of a woman against how much I love comedy. A bus rolled up.

Oh, no, I've got a bus now, bitch. Next stop! You! Jock was standing on the floorboards, holding on to the outside door. Whoa. Like a character from a Mad Max movie. Whoa.

Spraying his face. He's like garbage manning? Valhalla! Ah! You're just drinking spray paint for whatever reason. He shook his fist and screamed, You're all in big trouble! Wow.

This guy really liked the Boston Marathon. But then the men around Catherine running got upset. They were not down with Jock and his threats. They started flipping him off and shouting obscenities at him. Okay. Arnie screamed at Jock too. You quote, get the hell out of here, jock, leave us alone. He finally took the hint and the bus sped off, leaving a nice cloud of exhaust for the runners,

while laying on the horn for runners in front of them to get out of the way. Wow. So the other men in the fucking, so far, all the other male racers have been stand-up, stand-up guys. Well, now that they know that she doesn't die after 1.5 miles, they've been cool. Right. That's very good point. Yeah. As the race went on, the tempers came out.

Catherine was angry at Tom for hitting jock so hard. She thought he went overboard. The dude was trying to take her number. I know, but in her mind... He caught, like, it's almost like a black person at a Trump rally. Right. You just... You know what?

Do your protest, hold your sign quietly, take them out. You're under a microscope. Don't give them any fuel. Don't give them any pictures. She's doing a protest thing. It would be like if Jackson... Jackie Robinson and Punch to pitcher.

Right. Yeah. She wanted this to go smoothly. I get that. And Tom was angry. He suddenly yelled at Catherine, you're getting me into all kinds of trouble. She needs to get out of this relationship.

Tom thought he was going to now. He's projecting so much. He now thought he was going to get kicked out of the AAU. He wanted to compete in the Olympics in the hammer throw and thought now that he just hit an official. He was done. How am I going to become a household hammer thrower name? Catherine just said he was the one who had hit an official, which she never wanted, and now she was upset that he was starting a fight with her in public in the middle of a race.

Yeah, I'm sure as she's putting womanhood on her back, she really needs to be having, like, arguments with his hammer-throwing future. Yeah, look, Tom, we can talk about your hammer-throwing future when I'm done changing the Boston Marathon. I'm sorry. I'm running for an entire gender. Could you put your little bitch shit about the hammer throw? I'm going to have to enter the screw competition. Tom ripped the numbers off his front and back, then told Catherine she was too slow and ran off into the pack ahead of her. Okay.

I mean, talk about a guy who's going up and down in my book. Everyone around them looked embarrassed. Catherine started to cry. Arnie told her, Arnie told her to forget about him. and shake it off. And she did. She then caught up to Tom a little while later.

What's up, bitch? Who asked her to walk with him for a bit. Oh, really? She said she couldn't or she lose her momentum and passed him by. As she ran off, he yelled, I'd never leave you!

He just did! Can I just say that Catherine is the epitome of a strong powerful woman and Tom is the epitome of the stereotype of the male fuckhead holding them back

Yeah she's like ironing out relationship woes while she's about to finish the marathon Like he is and now he's being a little fucking he is literally the stereotype of what so many women think of men Well he's doing that thing where like Most men I'm sure

have gone through it where you just you're acting up so much for something and two hours later you're like I'm the worst. Yeah but he also is acting like he is running with her to protect her but it's all about him. Yeah. It's all about him. Well look he's basically Thor.

He is Thor. So a little respect to be nice. Catherine Arne. Hey don't leave me babe. When did I leave you? A mile ago. Oh, besides that. Hey, babe! Catherine Arnie and the other Syracuse runners finished in four hours, 20 minutes. It's Catherine. We're 20, dude.

We're 20, bro. Spark it up. Make a beer. Tom finished an hour later. The press ran out of Catherine. What made you do it? Are you a suffragette? Oh, God.

Yeah, no, you're, no, yes. Can we see your penis? No, yes, I'm running for voting in the 30s. Oh, interesting. Why Boston? Why wear numbers? They were all afraid. What's a stupid question?

They were all afraid that they would, be arrested for Tom hitting Jock, but nothing happened. Although Jock had Catherine disqualified from the race for being a woman. Even though there were no clear-cut rules that women were not allowed. Whatever. A BAA official insisted a podiatrist check her feet right there, and when she took off her shoes, her socks were soaked in blood. The podiatrist lanced blisters and taped her feet.

photos of Catherine running, being attacked, then saved by Tom, and Catherine in bloody socks at the finish line were all over the newspapers that evening. BAA director Will Clooney said, quote, Women can't run in the marathon because the rules forbid it. Unless we have rules, society will be in chaos. I don't make the rules, but I try to carry them out. We have no space in the marathon for any unauthorized person, even a man. if that girl or my daughter, I would spank her. Oh, dude, honestly, most times it's the last sentence.

First of all, not a girl, a woman. Yeah. Second of all, you spanking a woman like you've described is how a lot of porno starts. Yeah, he really, I mean, he's... As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to offer up a spanking now if she were so inclined. As long as she keeps her panties on. Naturally, the reaction of the AAU was the opposite of what should have occurred. The AAU barred women from all races with male runners.

So now what she did was get a rule in that says no women. Yeah, basically. God damn it. If a woman violated the rule, she would be barred from competing in any races for lifetime. Okay, so the rule is the same? The rule is that women can't run in races, and if a woman runs, in a race, then she can't run into race. You can't come in here, and if you do, you're not allowed back.

But women did run, just not with numbers. They also pushed the governing bodies to allow women officially into races. So women, you know, Bobby Gibb, and the next year, they go out and run again and go, yeah, we're fucking doing it. You can pretend like it's not happening. Thank you. We'll do that. We'll do that first part you suggested.

Every year we're going to do it. And so more and more and more would just keep showing up and running. And they can't stop them from running along with the guys. unless they have a number, but they're going to finish, and they're going to fucking go, yeah, okay. Do you keep pretending like this isn't happening

in front of your fucking face? You know what women's number is in my book? One. Bro. For me, it's 69. I think you might want to retract that. Finally, the Boston Marathon relented, and in 1972, allowed women to run.

In 1973, Catherine was at the starting line of the race, when Jock came up behind her and grabbed her. He put his hand on her shoulder and turned her around and gave her a kiss on the cheek in front of tons of TV cameras. She said that was his way of saying thank you and his way of apologizing.

They eventually became very good friends. Once the rules were changed, Jock became very supportive of women running. Hello, reality show. He's just about the rules. Yeah. No, no men allowed. Women only!

No, Jack. Relax. No! The test is a fall off. Bobby Gibb graduated from the University of California in San Diego in 1969, fulfilling the pre-medical requirements and with a major in philosophy

and a minor in mathematics. She was then rejected from medical school due to her gender. She worked as a horse riding instructor, a sculptor, a lawyer, an associate in a neuroscience laboratory. She sounds like one of those commercials for a degree on.

line. She's clearly super fucking smart. She wrote a book about inflation and another about economics, and she continued to run in marathons for years. In 1996, at the 100th running of the Boston Marathon, the BAA finally recognized Gibbs three wins in 1966, 1967, and 1968. She was awarded a medal for each. Okay. Catherine became an author, television commentator, and marathon runner. Catherine says she never received. She never received. received a negative comment from a male runner in her entire time. Jock was inducted into the... She must have headphones on.

Jock was inducted into the American Long Distance Running Hall of Fame in 1985. Dave, can you imagine the emotion? Oh. This is the bloody greatest email. Ever since, I knew you could run longer than a short distance. I knew what I wanted to be involved with. That's about it thought it. Put it away.

Jack. Well, I was just going to say if it's possible to now bring up something I'd talked about ages and ages ago, but I think we might now have made the technological strides. Shut the mic. To equip a marathon with a functioning vagina. Shut the mic. And then I will finish inside of it. Woo! I'm buck, baby.

Uh, Jock died of cancer in 1988. Boy, I'm glad I hit that bit when I did. The Jock Simple Award is given. by the Boston Athletic Association each year to a local Boston athlete who has made an impact with running especially... Who fought a fellow runner?

Performance. Wow. Holy shit. That's some juicy stuff, David. Some fucking crazy shit, right? Wow. Yeah. And I started out this story.

I asked someone to... A researcher... Not just like a Starbucks employee. No, you know, there's some people that help me research. Yeah. And I was like, can you? he sent me the story on her and he sent me the story and he's like there's just not enough here

and I was looking I was like well what about the guy who tried to do it I just with in my mind was like I wonder what I wonder what I want to do with the guy who tried to pull her down and then I said reading about him like oh my god sweet bastard we have our leader well that is uh that's interesting that's the business yep I guess you could say this week you really taught me a story from American history on a topic that I had no idea what it would be about. Isn't it funny how that works? Gareth?

Yeah, Dave? We sign cars. Damn right, we do. Hey, Dullab fans. I know you love the Dallop. You love listening to the Dullop. Do you want to watch the Dullop? You're like, Gareth, what are you talking about?

By the way, it's not Gary. It's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation, and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a fourth, five-partner animation, which is actually like a 22-minute episode or 30-minute episode, I can't remember, of the Rube. You can go to Lakeside Animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome animation of the Rube. It really genuinely kicks ass, and we're very proud of it. And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff,

the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch The Rube.