The Downbeat - Aaron Gillespie - Underoath

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

My guest this week is Aaron Gillespie, drummer and clean vocalist of Underoath. We sat down for a chat on the last day of tour to talk about everything from music and its current trend of overproduction, to mental health and mushrooms. As well as being such a funny and insightful chat Aaron opened up on a lot of stuff I'm not sure he's previously spoke about. We barely knew each other before this tour but became good friends very quickly and as a result this is one of my favourite episodes of the podcast yet.

I kind of messed up here, guys. Long story short, I recorded this episode. My favorite episode of the Downbeat, the best chat I've ever had with one of the best humans I've ever had, the pleasure of making my acquaintance. I recorded it with two separate lapel microphones, and I did some messed up stuff that overwrote my own microphone. So I've used some studio magic to try and level it out. If you can hear past that, then the chat is probably my favorite.

episode of the downbeat, um, just finished up the tour with Under Oath. Aaron Gillespie and the rest of Under Oath were probably the nicest, most accommodating headlines I've ever had the pleasure of being on tour with. Amazing guys. We have a chat about the tour. We have a chat about his time in Paramour.

That rhymed. There's a bunch of stuff. Please don't listen to it on headphones, maybe put it on. If you listen to it on a speaker, it sounds pretty good. Anyway, what we've done, what I want to do, right, with certain guests that have a sort of,

a hobby or something that they liked. Aaron loves NASCAR. I'm doing a shirt. It'll be up, but I don't know, until the next episode. We've done a NASCAR, Aaron Gillespie shirt on www. The DownBee. It's downby. It'll only be up for maybe, I don't know, 48 hours, I don't know.

And what I'm going to do is no one does this. No one gets paid to do podcasts. I'm going to split the money from the T-shirt with Aaron. And any future guests, if they've got a cool thing they want to do, I might have to do this again because I love this t-shirt Yeah That's about it really

Got a Patreon, and I? Got a quid Give us it Other than that Just ignore the shitty microphones It will never happen again I'm an idiot When I found out that I'd have raised

One of the mics Which of mine luckily Aaron's mic is untouched I literally cried It's Aaron Gillespie On the Downbeat podcast Downbeat podcast The Downbeat Podcast.

With Aaron. With Aaron. With Aaron. Famous Aaron. Mm-hmm. How... Am I famous? You know what I was thinking last night?

Well, I was drunk. If anyone, you can't see this, but... At the bends. I'm using a... Liquid IV. I can't stop shaking because I got so fucking hammered last night. Did you puke, hammered? No.

I'm a grown. I'm a grown man. But... Look at that. Yeah, that's drunk. That's... That's probably you were drunk until what time? Fuck.

Yeah, see, that's why you needed to do a proper sleep. I didn't. And here we are with the liquid IV, hydration mulplier, thank you. This is what I was thinking of last night. Okay. How, like, you were like, back in the day, I mean, obviously now as well, but like, you were like super famous drummer. Like, one of the famous guys. Really?

Yeah. It was Aaron, like, when you were on mine, not back in the day. Okay. I don't want to just talk about drums. I don't really want to talk about drums. We can talk about them some. I think there's things that we talked about if you want. Ooh, beef. No beef.

But then you like, you became like a famous, famous drama guy. Is that just from Android? I guess. I mean, back when we started, you didn't like, people weren't making YouTube bids and stuff. Do you know what I mean? I guess maybe... Is it because you sing as well? When we started, like, when we started playing, and the band first took off like 04 through 06

drum companies before then, so sticks and heads and symbols and all the bullshit, they were doing like Dave Wechel and Carter Buford and there wasn't a ton of rock guys. There were some, but they were huge bands. You know what I mean? So I feel like I was maybe one of the first guys that was on a minel box that wasn't from, like,

a huge band. It was from like a quotation fingers, sing band or whatever. Maybe that's why. Or maybe it's the singing... Well, it was like it was weird, because it was only you from that scene. I can't think of another band. Not that under, it wasn't massive, but another band that was like you said, not a fucking... There were way bigger bands at the time, though.

At the time we were touring back Sunday and Mike Kim and the U's who were way bigger at the time. You know, all of those bands were fucking huge. So I don't know. And it makes me... It feels funny to talk about sometimes because... because I don't think I have the... And we've talked about this in the last six weeks. I don't think I have the fucking juice

to be the guy on the box as a player. You are! You are the most... I'll preface this whole thing. You're the most welcoming band ever toured with. And I was like a little bit apprehensive. Not even apprehensive, just like,

I wonder if Aaron's going to be a dick. And you are the complete... I tried to preface... It's really the nicest. person I've ever told. I tried to preface by becoming online friends with you because I'm such a fan of, and this sounds dumb,

but I'm such a fan of the podcast and of the streams and stuff, the Downbeat brand, because I think that, and we can get into this later, but I, I like that it's not, it's not a drummer's thing. Even though you're a drummer and you film yourself playing drums, you're like kind of making fun of yourself for being

a drummer all the time. That's it. Do you know what I mean? It's it. And I feel like today in the drum world, people are so serious, you know? And you have all the bullshit. I'm not gonna, you know, people that are listening to this have seen you, you have all the cameras and you have the light, but you're sort of taking

the piss out of yourself. And so when I first, I had met you, I met the rest of the band, and I'm such a fan of the band, but I was like, this guy is one of my people. You know what I mean? Drummer's who, you play so well every night and you take it seriously, but you're not like, I'm afraid of getting in trouble

for the things that I wanna say, because I've never done a drummer podcast. It's not a drama podcast. I know, no. Your whole conversation you're having right now is telling me that it's not a drummer. I know, but you know what I mean, though. Like, drummers listen to this.

And a ton of non-drumers do, but, like, I feel like, dude, there's so many talented fucking people playing drums on YouTube. So I mean, preface, all of it was saying that. But I feel sometimes, like, it's a little bit like jerking off on camera. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

It's performative. Yeah. And for me, like, sex is always better than beaten off. I'm exactly the same. Do you know what I mean? So when you do it live... Do you want to know a side note? Go on.

Just to keep it on the downbeat brand. I think I've jerked off three times in the last. Which is crazy. You're just that good looking. Fucking hell, dude. When I stop, I was like... I mean, yeah. I'm using that as a drum analogy.

When you play drums in front of people, that's the release. And this is no source. like to you because I've watched all your drum videos and you're so talented but you're better out there as a player because but ever here's thank you you might not think you are because I've heard you say shit in the last six weeks but I do think that you're better out there but that's because thank you but that's also because the the exact you saying this is one of my people is because imagine if I was doing you know when I play

the shows here and I get into it and I find and you do as well I want to stand up and punch stuff or whatever. Imagine what I was doing that on Instagram. Like, just... That's what I'm fucking saying. People do, though.

Yeah. And that's where I'm like, that sucks though. Yeah. Because when I'm watching, you don't play with half the intensity you do in front of the light as you do.

Because it would be like, you're like, you know, literally exact. So why do you think... So why do you think that drummers do it then? Because it does make you a name.

It's honestly, even like endorsements now, from a business point of view, it actually makes much, much more sense for a company to give some guy on the internet symbols. True. Than a guy that's touring, because the amount of people, like, let's say there's 2,000 people here tonight, the percentage of them that are drummers, let's say maybe that's fucking 2%. Or they're off their heads drunk and they're not going to remember what they saw, whatever. Yeah, and you can't see your symbols or whatever. Got it.

versus on the internet, overhead shot, there's the symbols, 20,000 people see it and 19,000 and the drummers. So I get it from a business point of view, but I also get like, isn't cool. Well, don't get me wrong, if Siljan approaches me, they did with the sweet ride line in 2018 or 19, I did all those videos. If someone of them approached me and were like, hey, we're making this new shit, like we want you to do, I would do it. But I'm talking about of my own volition. I don't think that I would ever make videos, which I think has injured me, though, is because you, like, you started this by saying, you were, like,

famous as a drummer, and that has died in some ways, in many ways. But here's, no, but here's why. Let me tell you why. Because the companies that endorse me, who I'm so grateful for, Gratch and Remo and Vic Firth and Zodgen, they don't even approach me anymore because they know I'm not going to make my own content. You see what I'm saying?

And from, I can't be bothered to do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I get, and I get that. It's like the same, I don't really make any drum content when I'm on tour because I can't be bothered either. Right. But it's more of a like, it gets me work when I'm at home by putting the clips up. Well, I asked you the other day, as a songwriter, that's the bulk of my life, I asked you

if you'd be interested when you get home. Fucking wait. To play on shit, but the only way I knew that is from watching you. I'm watching my shit. So it's like... It is a thing. It's a thing and actually you probably nailed it on the head. Like, I try really...

fucking you interviewing me podcast. Come on, this is great. People want this. This is the shit they want. They do. I like try and be self-aware of how un-cool stuff can look. Why at the same time putting it out there so people do offer me stuff. But I think it helps.

So I have this thing like with bands. So like why do, why did we have straight from the path on the tour? This big sold-out tour we just both did. Which is the best tour we've ever known, by the way. Cheers. But why did we do it? Aside from the reason I love the music, I listen to straight from the path in the gym all the time. And I have for a long time, but why did we bring you guys on the tour?

And I think this is the, I'm going to tell you the quick answer is because you don't take yourself too seriously. You see what I mean? Like as a band, the music is real serious. When you're on stage, it's fucking heavy and there's only two amps and it's that died. I love the whole aesthetic, but like, if you pulled a gun in my head and said, why is straight from the path on this tour? And I would tell you this answer, I would say, because you don't take yourself seriously. You take yourself seriously musically, but as a personas, and I'd like to say the same for under oath.

It's very serious. That's why we get on. But no one is like, I need my hour before the show. Don't talk to me afterwards. You see what I'm saying? And I think that you've done that as a streamer with drums. so it feels there's pro mics it's the fucking thing

or whatever but no one's like this dude if his camera feed goes out will probably still post it with like the blurry line or whatever I like putting mistakes on it I've seen you mess up you know what I mean

and it's interesting that like I think that helps a younger generation because this is very dad of me I have two kids but like if I were to make content I would want to help those young kids you know they buy the symbol box Like, how can I turn you on to some cool shit? Yeah.

And teach you to, like, play your ass off. But also, like, if you have four or five beers before the show, that's okay, too. It's fucking. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, that's the deal. Like, yesterday I posted a picture of our guitar player has a new brewery. They were actually going to go through after this. But he, I posted a picture.

I had never seen him out. King State. King State, the new breweries called the Brutalist. Yeah, you've had one, lovely. So I had one of those beers. I'd never had one. You had one before me. It's called a reverse order.

It's like this insane. And I posted a picture of it and I said, this is the best beer. Which I love it because it's my homey. And it is delicious. But you say things like that. Like that's the best. Yeah.

And all these people just fucked me up on the IMs. Are you kidding? Like that's not the best beer. Come to New Jersey, you know? And I'm like... You can have my Pappy's fucking corn beer. It was the whole thing. And I'm like,

I was just posting this because the place is cool and I'm like chilling on my Instagram and I think if more people in like the online space the drum space if it felt more like that like this is the best solo but there's a mistake in it you know what I mean like I would turn people on I think and I think that you're doing it and you're the only drummer that I watch online because but I think that's the fucking thing right

like how do we help help we help the next people come out here and get tours you got you're a great drummer but you got tours and job because you're cool. See what I'm saying? I like it. I like how much you gasping me up. But while we're on the like helping the young generation thing,

that's the whole reason I'm like, let's show mistakes and also call out the people that are fucking faking shit because, like, it's the equivalent of airbrushing like models. I was pulling the paste in

so it's like a woman doesn't look like that. Bigger boobs. Like the crazy and insane ratios that don't exist and then there's girls looking at that aspiring to be that will never be that and then they get the breast them with their problems The same thing when you've got like 300 BPM blast beats completely edited to the grid And then people are that's amazing I'll never be like that and I would get bummed with it so I my initial first videos were all like I would edit them And then I would have insane imposter syndrome because I would after you post them yeah because people oh wow would comment and go this is like

five years ago. People would comment and go, oh my God, that's amazing. And I could never take the compliment because in my head, I go, I agree with that. Like, I know I agree. Can't fucking sleep at night. You're like, I, I, yeah. And then I was just like, I think I did one video. And then I was like, oh, that's actually pretty good. I'm not going to edit it.

And then I was like, oh, I'm never editing again. Because then every compliment you get is like, actually, fuck, yeah, I did that. And if you feel bad about yourself, you can go back through the video and be like, oh, actually I'm pretty good. But I could never do that before. Huh.

You've never edited anything in your life. Yeah, I mean, full disclosure, like, we do some light editing on records. But it's if we want something to sound like, Craig has just put his wallet on the table that's in between us, and he's got a million dollars in it. No idea. It's like eight inches. It sounds like. It's all, like, fucking, like, torn dollars.

Don't shame me. There's actually quite a lot of money in the world. My favorite thing is that you were at the bar last night and you paid and you were so drunk you couldn't get the money properly back into your wallet. That's what that is. Oh my God, what was it doing?

It's like all fucking twisted in half. It's so bad. There's a lot of signals in there. You didn't go to the bins, did you? You went somewhere else. I did not actually. That's why I'm confused. Oh, that's a 20? That's pretty good. Fold it in three pieces.

This is audio only. I'm going to help you out. Have you seen the episode of Curb when he's got that 50s? He keeps in his shoe. Oh, so fold his coach. We do edit things if we want them to be like, if there's like a heavy part where Chris is playing like a heavy electronic part. But for the most part, when we do edit, it's to, like, we use Pro Tools and no one edits but ourselves if we're editing on record. Like we don't let like a producer do it.

So this last record, I think we edited some stuff for like 16%. So it's very swung, you know? So is that like the Pro Tools when you can affect when it... Yeah, it's called Beat Detective, so it like, it recognizes the regions and it'll make the cuts for you. That's how a lot of people... There's a slider that you... You can go from zero to 100. Oh, I mean, either. I don't...

No, me neither, I don't... Yeah. But a lot of stuff now is, though. And what's... What fucking scares me? We might have had this conversation in the last month or two, but like, people are expect to hear that now. You know, voyeurist, which came out June of this year. Thank you doing my job.

Yeah, there we go. People are, like, ate our lunch about it. I don't like the way it sounds. What? It sounds fucking amazing. You think that, but like the modern ear. Oh, because they want the grid. We didn't grit it and we didn't, we didn't root sound replace. Kick, snare, nothing. It's just in there. Hold album.

Hold album. That's fucking same. One song might have a snare sample. is like an effect we had this chat it's like this the annoyance of becoming a competent drummer is that

when you can go into the studio you have to work far harder than actually people who are bad at drums because the producer knows it's in you so like the same thing on our record there are two sections with a snares sample on it and the rest of it is 100% fucking natural I know

you can tell I mean but it's like the It's because Will, partly, knew that it was in me. So he ate your lunch? Yeah, he was like, I need that's an airdrum. 10% louder. Same. And I can hear on your record.

We self-produced. So we didn't have a producer. So I have Tim yelling at me and JJ yelling at me. Like, the third hit on the first verse is lighter than the... And then you have to just get back in there. But if you were just bad, that could just be soundproof. Right. It's the same thing with, like, vocalists, right?

Or like the way the people look, like you're talking about people being airbrush, like we are trained. If you listen to the Beatles now, it's crazy how like not on key it is. Yeah. Like the vocals. And they've got these gorgeous lush harmonies. It's the four of them, right? And you listen to it, it's amazing. But if you listen to it against like the newest rock band with 18 made from Melodyne harmonies, you're like, this doesn't sound as good as bad.

I feel like that's, yeah. That's when it's way out. I feel like people are getting, it's almost like, you know, there's a word for it, I can't remember what it's called, when, ah, fuck,

if I knew the word, I'd be a good podcast, that, when someone's face looks just wrong. So, did you see the Irishman? Yes. You know how when they age, enhanced it,

or whatever, there's a word for the way a human being, because it's not actually human. Okay. And I feel like people are getting to that stage with music,

where they're like, I don't like this, and I don't, and why and it's because the humanity has just been completely sucked out of it and I think we're coming back to stuff being a little bit off-key and people are going to be interested by that because everything is going to sound fucking grey sludge like each other I came to this realisation in my bunk on mushrooms the other day I was listening to like music and I could hear in sincerity like it wasn't an instrument like it was an instrument like it was an instrument

Wow. And I was going through music that I liked. A track of fake. Yeah, like I hear, like if drums were sampled or whatever, I could hear like, I'm not hearing the moment that the music was made. And it was crazy and it was like, I didn't take enough to trip, trip, but I was, oh, and I was in a legal state of whatever I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I had, my phone screen looked like 8K, and I had this extra ability to hear it.

insincerity and I broke the fucking rules of not listening to the bones you're on tour with when you're on tour to do voyeurists but I haven't told you this because I was saving this for me. I love the saving so I did voyeurist and I fucking

was like it got to like hallelujah and I was like I cry. There's mistakes and I'm sure you could hear him no I was fucking tripping bro no but like it it was like an organic sound yeah thank you That's the best compliment I've ever been given about it.

There's electronic shit though. This is a pro podcast movie. You ready for this? There's electronic shit though that's very real too. Nine-inch nails. Yeah. Who's one of our favorite, both of our favorites. But there's like my personal favorite.

You see how that move. I'd move that. This is me. I'm so good at this. This is perfect. But I told you a few nights ago about how my favorite. is with teeth and I think my favorite is with teeth there's a lot of really shiny shit on with teeth you know in production the you know synths and computer moves

but the drums are totally real yeah Dave roll-play drums a lot of that really and your freaks yes yeah yeah yeah I don't know what the who played on what songs I looked it up once but like you can hear like the real drums mixed with other stuff so I think that may become hopefully may become the modern sweet spot yeah is like, and if you listen to like head like a hole, for instance, like from back. That's one of my favorite lines. It's so electronic, but there's some like... It feels like it was played.

Like, samples but played. All the fucking typo-negative albums. Same thing. Yeah. Fear Factory from like the 90s. Yeah. Like... Super triggered, sampled, elicis, fucking whatever, but somebody who actually fucking

played it is. So it's not quantized perfectly. I was listening to, I woke up to pee there the night. I have this fucking thing. I don't know what's going on on tour. I'm 38 full disclosure, so as I get older. It's a prostate thing. Dude, I wake up once a night at home to piss every night, without fail.

But if I've had a lot to drink, it's a nightmare. But on the bus, it sucks because you're moving. Oh, I hate it. And we have a crew of guys on our bus that drink to the wee hours every night. They are, Tim, our guitar tech, JJ our Fernhaskai who also engineered our record, and usually my drum tech day up until four and five in the morning drinking every night. I don't know how they do it, but they do it. So every night when you go pee at 4.30 in the morning, they're out there just like...

And you got through fucking... They look like raccoons with a flashlight on them. You know what I mean? Like the lights are always off. So I woke up, this was two nights ago and they've been watching like live streams from quarantined from other bands. So there was a Bonnie Vera one that was insane that I walked in on. He was like playing in a fucking alley in New York.

But I walked in on one literally between Atlanta and here. And we had been drinking that night. And I was up, you know. It's 4.30. And I hear this like, like, ma-ma-da-da. Like this like R&B kind of thing, but it's weird sounding. And I opened the door and they're watching a live stream. And it's like six guys in a room around a table.

And on the table, there's fucking beer and people are rolling joints. and they're all playing music together. And it's this guy named Dijon, like the mustard. And I'm watching it, and I'm kind of drunk still, and I'm watching it, and he has no microphone. And then he bends over, and I see he has a lav mic on, like we have now. This is what you were just talking about it. And so the band is playing in a room with no inn ears,

and there's samplers, like the drummer has in ears, and like towels on the drums. But I feel like it was so real, and it was the most inspiring thing I've ever seen. And it made me feel like 9th Nails made me feel when I was younger, where it was like digital. But like, dude, it was so, so excited. Dirty, like. Yeah, and he was singing in the room like this.

That was the vocal. And then I went and listened to the record, and it's the same way. Like, there's no close mic. So I think you're right. Maybe there's like a cyclical thing where we're coming and back to back to that where you can make stuff. I'm going to try to find. I want to try to find the name of, um, the record, Dijon like the Mustard.

And the album is called Absolutely. And it came out last year and... Someone's showing me that video before, I didn't realize it was... The song I'm talking about is called Big Mikes. And I do. And ironically, it's little mics. Oh, no, I know mics. But yeah, dude, I think everything's cyclical in music, right?

And I never said this either. I might get in trouble. I don't care. We're good. But like, I feel like we're almost in the last 10 years. We've been back in the 80s. And we're like waiting on Ravana. That's literally it. Do you know in the 80s, like, you had like poison and rat and all the bullshit hair,

and everyone was singing as high as they possibly could, and then you had guns and roses who kind of dipped their toes into, like, some real shit? And then Nirvana and Pearl Gym came along and took away the hair and the high singing and just made music. And I feel like in the last 10 years, even 15 years inside of the scene. Like I felt like after when our band walked away, like every band I heard, it was like so like the vocals were like

it's like higher than anything inhuman you know with like the made the made harmonies like inhuman and I feel like we're still kind of waiting on nirvana in many ways and I think that it's going to come in a different shape than we even think it might not be guitarist

it might be Billy Eilish you know I don't know I don't know you know what I mean like it might be Big Sean or Kendra Plamar or who the who the fuck ever you know what I mean mean like that's one thing with like Kendrick that I just fucking love is that's

taking what we're talking about almost like the obviously don't sound anything like I just know but like the digital with the live shit into that world it's fucking awesome even like with Drake albums is real shit but it doesn't feel as yeah yeah instruments

my favorite thing to talk about is like what's gonna happen like with music and what's going to happen with like art and like how it's going to translate to people's lives and it's all speculation. I want, man, I can't see, so here's like an example, I can't see architects coming out with a raw sounding record. They would get murdered because no one would like it. You think so. Because their fans want the digital fucking snare drum super sampled. Here's a bigger one. What if Bring Me did? I feel like, I feel like,

I feel like Brimmy could get away with anything like that I think so they could get away with murder because they've already done

they've already went from being a metal corps or something else so they could actually just do it again but I feel like Architects fans architect's one of my favourite brands

their fans are the fucking worst they are no offense because you're all listening they are just so like I remember when Sam cut his hair

and they're like uprising then there was like an album that didn't sound as quite a sample and everyone fucking shit the better about it. Wow. So I feel like they can't have sort of made their grave of... They're the realest motherfuckers though, dude.

My architect's story, which I have never told, in 2010, I had like a, like a essentially mental breakdown to just bring it in real serious on the downbeat. But I had essentially a mental breakdown and was like drinking with pills and it was bad, like sleeping 18 hours a day and then waking up for the gig. And I quit under oath in Europe in Prague.

And architects were direct support. And Sam, basically, I don't know why this happened, but Sam essentially rode on her bus for a month. The rest of the band, I don't know where they were. Like, the best guys, Tom Searle back then, rest of peace. Like, it's cool as motherfuckers, dude. But Sam, for some reason, and we're roll cigarettes at night.

We'd save it to four in the morning, and I would just be out of, off my head. Like, I got a Xanax prescription, and I was drinking on it, what you shouldn't. I was been there as well. Because I was so miserable in life, and my first marriage was failing, and I was just trying to erase shit.

And Sam, it was crazy. I quit the band, and, like, it was public, like, on the tour. It was so strange. Usually something like that, you know, on a tour this size. Both of our bands were quite small 12 years ago, whatever. It was 2010, so 12 years ago now, like, now you'd shut the door and, like, it'd be a big thing. But it was, like, public.

And I'll never forget Sam just being like, it's going to be okay, dude. Like, they were the realest people. And at the time, like Tom Searle and the other guitar player, I can't remember his name, different guy than is in the band now. You remember that guy's? Tim. Tim. They were super into, like, that band, ISIS, a Panopticon record.

They were super into botch, who was a band that we love, and they were into all the realest shit, and they can really play. So I find it interesting with how real they are humanly, that they have to, like, hold up this... Plastic is the wrong word, but like this, they have to make a certain type of music, like you just said for their fans to be like,

this is fucking dope, because they're the realest dude. Like, I cried in Sam's arms. I've done that many times. Sam is my motherfucker. Like, he's the realest dude. We just talk to each other. We can, we're best friends.

We can not talk to each other for two weeks. And then one of us is going through some shit. And then it's just like, hey, pick it up. Yeah, it's fucking mad. I mean, and they were there. Like, they, I played my final five shows with Under Oath with those dudes there until 2016. Like, yeah, almost seven years. Like, and they were just there.

Like, and it wasn't weird. They were just like, yeah, it sucks, dude. So I find that interesting. People socially are like so, real and then they have to do a certain thing to keep their business up. Yeah, I don't... Getting serious on the downbeat today, everyone. Super serious. I don't think musically architects do anything to please anyone, but I think just the production. That's what I mean. I don't mean like they're writing songs for their fans.

I more mean like... Yeah, I don't think they could sway from the production. Although, hang on, I don't think the world's ready for it because here you go, I'm gonna throw that yeah. Death time's gore. People hated it. There was some bangers on it. But it was too raw. It was too... So we're the ones in here like preaching raw, and I don't like it either.

I like three songs on it. And then even like fucking Gojira, the last two Gojira records are more raw, but I fucking like the other ones. I take back everything I said. Yeah, we're both full of shit. It's funny, though, dude, because like you can say one thing

and I think we're both duped by the 80s. Like we both want to hear that, even though like stylistically and in ethos, we want to make the real shit. Yeah, but I also want the real shit to be that fucking flam at the start of misery business. I want every drum to sound like that. And that's David Bindith and that shit is very doctored.

That is a fucking big sample. He mixed Lost in the Sound Separation, which is arguably my favorite Under oath record. And there's a lot of stuff on that that is sampled. You know what I mean? so I tell you everything. No. Maybe the mushroom thing was real, though,

because maybe it's just, maybe it's just a player, and it doesn't matter what, as long as you can play it, I don't know. I think you're right. I have a friend who is like a, he passed away last year.

He is, um, he's like a big guitar tech, and he worked with like Alison Krauss and Mike Campbell who plays guitar for the Heartbreakers. and he said that he was in a studio and John Mayer's rig was there. And he picked it up. And he's like, you know what he was like fully like, fully like fucking up. Like it was shit, they were done for the night.

And he like snuck in there and grabbed John Mayer's like 50s telecaster through these amps called Dumbles that are so rare. They're over $100,000 a piece. And there was three of them. It's all hooked together. And he said he strummed it and it sounded like shit. He was like it was fucking nasty sounding. And he said later that night, they all got there for the session. was the best guitar he'd ever heard.

So I think it's about the hands. I really do, especially with drums and like tactile instruments, guitars. And even like you said, people make it shit with samples. Like, it's about the person. You know what I mean? The person is a fucking great quote. I don't wanna butcher it,

so I'm gonna get the quote right now. It's a, but that's what it is with art, right? It's about the person. Like I said, here's a good example. You were gone somewhere and the pigeon had set up your drums and- How Good The Pigeon. And I wanted to hit, I've never played an aluminum drum kit. They're aluminum, right?

The Thomas you have out? They're steel. They are steel. So, and when you play them in night, they sound so fucking good. And I sat down and played him. I was like, I don't sound that good. I felt like that on your kit today. How weird is that?

Isn't that strange? It's like their connection to the... It's the person. Here's the quote. Miles Davis. Anybody can play. The note is only 20%. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80%.

And I think that's what's missing in music today. I really believe that. That. More motherfuckers. No, but, but like, everything is so digitized. Like, when you had your, your fucking shroom trip in the bunk the bunk the bunk the other night, in a legal state, he got the huge. The legal state. And guess what my bunk was huge? It was crazy. I was in there and I was like, this thing is big. How I can fit a family of four in it? Yeah, but like we've digitized people out. You know when you're playing a show or you're like in a studio session and you know what's really you and you're like in a box of the song. Yeah. Like you're in it. It's like your bunk. You're in the bunk of the song and it's 300. I'm really going to do mushrooms now.

I've never done mushrooms. I have crippling anxiety. And you do it? Take a tiny little amount. And then what happened, this is what happened to me on this tour. And I did want to talk about this on the podcast, but I didn't think it would be on this episode. I have diagnosed anxiety and diagnosed depression.

Do you take pills for it? Yeah. But like, as and when. You don't take a daily antidepressant? I did for the longest time. and then I stopped. Come back on and back off. Got it, got it, got it, got it.

Okay. Meltdowns. But when I was a shrooms the other day, the same time, I had, I think my anxiety comes from a really bad fucking trip I had when I was a kid. Trauma thing. Like I, like I had a horrible fucking trip, and I feel like my anxiety came from there.

So when I was doing the mushrooms the other day, I caught myself getting into an anxious loop, and at the time I caught myself doing it and in my head I could visualize what just triggered it and why it wasn't actually a problem and it's just my cyclical thinking

that made me do it and then it's like I could visualize... It helped you? I visualized the like connector in my brain and then just moved it and I haven't been anxious since then. Like I've got Valium prescription

I haven't taken it. Wow. Since this one fucking mushroom trip. And I like in my head, I'm like, if they made the problem, then a smaller dose might fix the problem. But it was crazy. Just the way it makes you think, it's like fucking terrible. I don't know about it in the UK,

there's a company here in the States called Silo. Yeah. Not here in this illegal state, but in a legal state, they're the ones. So there's companies that are doing it now where you can, it's posted. It's gone. So I take fully, I take an antidepressant every day. And I have for, I'm 38, almost 12, 20 years and I would love to get off of it and I tried to wean my way off of it in 2018 in Australia.

Like I- That's a bad way. Oh, I know, but I called a doctor and was like, I called my doctor and was like, how do I do this? And he gave me the schedule like you cut one and half and you do it. And I'll never forget it. By the time I got to the end, it was like a two-week thing. We were in Australia for three weeks. I would look in the mirror and I couldn't believe, I don't know if you understand this, but I couldn't believe that I was myself.

Like I looked at myself in the mirror and I looked like another person to myself. I was so fucked up mentally. So if you can do something natural and it uncovers that trauma or helps you with that cognitive thinking of like I see why I'm anxious and I see the path on how to erase it. Here in the States they're doing DMT treatment now.

Ketamine. I mean that's why they need to like decriminalize it so they can actually research it because it might be that this is not helping anyone and that the antidepressants would help people more but they need to test it because otherwise like even me saying this on this podcast I go down and say the reason I'm so fucking anxious and depressed is previously from doing too many drugs.

So drugs probably aren't the answer, but they might be. And I wouldn't fucking... They're just more recent. Drugs done the right way, though, is... Awesome. It's totally different. Yeah, it's totally different. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, when you drink on Xanax, that was my drug of choice. Zanax. I loved it. Drink. I can't, I literally... I had it for anxiety. and just the blackout is dangerous. It's so scary, but it's bliss when you're miserable,

which is such a heavy thing. It's such a heavy thing to talk about, but if you can make someone, and why is it bliss when you black out? Because you forget why you hurt, you know what I mean, and you go away, which is so dangerous, but like if there was a way to synthesize a tenth of that feeling to where you could go into life

and be like, I don't care about like, what's happened to me. I was going through, about to go through a divorce at the time, which is why I was so miserable. Hey, let's go. But, like, I think that that, if you could have a tenth of, like, us drinking on three bars of Xanax, like, just a bit to make you go, life is hard, but today, right now. I feel like I always like you with the anxiety about the mushrooms, and I just did the smallest amount, and it was sick. Full disclosure, on this tour, someone brought mushrooms around. I don't know who had it.

and they were like, do you want like a little cap? And for a second, because I had been reading about this therapeutic psilocybin therapy, I was like, but I was pretty drunk, so I was scared to like blend the two. Oh, I was drunk as far. Really? See, I read that if you mix it to you,

like see like a dragon coming out of Jesus's butt or like, something crazy. I don't, dude, I don't know, man. I think that like, I grew up really, really, I don't know if you know this about me, I grew up really, really, really religious. I have loved. Like, hyper religious, and I'm not religious.

You personally or family? Me personally as well. Until I was like... Let's do this. This is a fucking heavy episode. Let's do that. I'm really sorry. I know it's supposed to be funny.

It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. But until I, until I, like, made Christian music and stuff, until I was like 28, 29 years old. And then when my divorce happened, all those people kind of walked away from me

because it's not sexy in the Christian world. It's about, like, how hot your wife is and how good everything is. I was in like the commercial Christian world, like big playing a hill song and stuff. Yeah. It's been almost 10 years now,

but I realized in it all that it was man-made. A lot of it. And I have spiritual beliefs, but I don't consider myself religious. You know what I mean? And I think I have a lot of trauma from that. I think that's where a lot of my stuff is seated because I grew up like,

and I have a wonderful, my mom was here tonight. She's incredible. But I grew up really, really, really, really sheltered. So I have this in the very back of my mind. Like, I think everything should be permissible. Like, I think with drugs, if it helps you, and it's, and I'm not saying go do heroin, but I'm saying if it's dose and it's right and a doctor did it, like the silo stuff or all this stuff that's out right now, you should try it.

But I have this bend way in the back of my mind where it's like, I don't know if I can, is that okay? Like I never got drunk in high school or anything You know what I mean? I didn't get drunk until I was of age And I felt bad about it for years Yeah, that's because I have this A Christian It's sewn into rate

And I'm almost 40 Over a decade removed But I still have like These bins That don't let me do stuff sometimes You are Listen I don't want to be a mushroom DMT podcast guy But I kind of am now

Okay Dombeat is rebranded that rebranded the downbeat experience. Yeah. It sounds like you just need a little couple. Yeah. Of those buildings, that they all may not have.

In my, over there in my podcasting, podcasting kit. That probably goes next to my antidepressants as well as anything goes wrong. No, dude, I just think that like, I don't know. I think people like you and me,

like you think too much, you go through stuff and you internalize it. People, I heard someone say once, like, if you get like in a squat position, which you love to squat. If you get in the squat position, there's two types of people. If I push you over,

you're either just going to fall with it and be like, whatever, that guy pushed me over, I got weight in my hand, which is what you should do. That's how you get, that's how you don't injure yourself. You should just roll with the punches.

And then there's people like you and I begin in the squat position. Someone pushes us, I'm going to try to get my back foot to protect myself from falling. And then, yeah, and then eat their ass. So, like, you know what I mean? Like, we're those type of people,

and I think that that kind of stuff is like, can't, could be beneficial. So I'm on that journey now. I'm trying to figure out, like, can you do it? You want to speak, let's not make it an ad, but they did say many shit, like the stuff for free. Speak to the side of the people.

Just send them a deal. So they're in the UK as well. No. No. Are you going to get arrested on the plane? I don't think so. They're going to search Craig Reynolds' asshole. I have to get rid of everything tonight.

Just just eat it all before the show and see what turns up. Sold out gig. We're in illegal state, whatever, blah. Fuck it off, I'm okay. Wow, dude. You get more, you get more swag than anyone I know. It's because you're so fucking good-looking.

Oh, shut up. I had something to say on the, what you're saying about having the worry in the back of your mind, the way, the sort of people that we are, and you're right, people who are on antidepressants. Do you think you would be as successful if you didn't think

to other. Whoa. So me and Tim had this drunken conversation the other night. He's like, and we've all known each other for 20 years in our band, so the way that we talk to each other is sometimes really backdoor. Like, you think you're fucking Sylvia Plath because you're a mental case, right? And that's why you're so artistic.

What he really means to ask me is what you asked me. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know any well-adjusted musicians who are successful. Yeah. So... Making good music. That's the thing.

thing is I think that I mean I'm a writer to aside I'm not just a drummer right like I write songs for other people as a day job and I have never written a happy song and I struggle with it like I go to Nashville three or four months a year and a lot of the music I write is modern country music and it's like beer and trucks and hot chicks and I really struggle with that stuff sometimes because I don't really write when I'm happy do you know I mean yeah I can't I get most of my best work done when I'm in the throws of food like When you go on stage at night, there's a tinge of anger, right?

Or a tinge of angst. Like, I don't typically, maybe at the end of a set, I'm smiling and we're drinking beer on stage and it's fun. But, like, the first five songs, I am here to tear your soul apart. You go fucking, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's because I do that I fuck up, but I let's on. It's because I'm a little bit worried, though. I'm a little worried, like, can I pull it off?

Like, is my heart going to explode? I have those thoughts every night. I think about like... Because I honestly think I would never... Everyone was like, oh, would you ever change anything about anything? Like even divorce, even any of the... Right. ...change anything at all.

Right. Or if you could change anything about yourself, or would you get rid of any of you were like, fucking mental illness or something? And it's like, I think I would because... It would be as good. It leads me to make the decisions that make me who I am and where I am.

I... Dude, I just look at, like, people who flex or whatever, you know? And I don't know that it's all like this, but I look at people in bands or pop artists, then I'm like, that's an act, but that's all a cover-up for something else. You know what I mean? The very few let you in. Like, Halsey lets you in and you see, like, you should tell stories about her life or, like, growing up at 16 and men being, like, during her and, like.

She works with fucking nine minutes. Dude, that record is incredible. Oh, my God. I wish that, never mind. Like, I wish I could be a fly on the wall and just watch, like, how Trent and Atticus dealt with it. the pop star. He's Trent's number one

on my, like, he's number two on my, I want you on the downbeat. I bet he's an asshole. Oh, do you think? I don't know, I don't know anything. So I'm friends with Alon Rubin. I mean, I thought you'd be an asshole

when you're not. Yeah, yeah. I'm friends with Al-Rubin. He played on the Paramar record that I toured the whole cycle and did the live. I did the live at Red Rock's version. That's you.

That's me. Yeah. Cool. Crazy. Oh shit, you had a top story that you were going to tell me about about my nails. And that's,

I'm terrified of meeting him because Ilan told me, I was like, is he cool? Like, and he was like, yeah, he's cool. He's just kind of serious. And I'm like, that's what scares me. It's because I'm so not serious. We did a lot of serious talking, but through the lens of we're friends and we're in a, we're in a room next to a shower at a sold-out show. We're safe.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like we're not on someone else's turf. So my Nine-Each Nail story and why I'm scared to meet him. even if he isn't an asshole. So there's a festival in New Orleans. It's my favorite festival. It's called Voodoo Fest. And it's just like by a fucking cemetery in this field

and there's a Ferris wheel and there's 75,000 people. And Paramour was direct support to Nine Hous Nails. And you were playing for Paramour and this was after you quit Under Oath. After I quit Under Oath and Ilan Rubin had recorded the self-titled Paramore record that I ended up doing four years of touring on and I played on the live version. And I have the Platinum record.

It was amazing. It was some of the best times of my life and I'm glad I did it. As a drummer, it grew me up. Yeah. Because I was always just, I've never played in any band with my own, ever. Never for anyone else. I've never played drums for any other band, but under oath. Right. My whole life. Which is why again last night I was thinking about it, I was like, this motherfucker is a motherfucker from one band. Right. But it was awesome for me, and thank you, but it was awesome for me to go and have to be really professional. First off, the way it started, I'll tell the way it started. I'll tell the way it's started, then I'll tell the story. So the way it started, I was mowing my grass, and my ex-wife

brings me on the phone, and she goes, you're going to do this. And it was my manager, and he said Paramour's drummer got injured. They had been through seven drummers between the original drummer, who's back now, and myself, in the course of three years. That's great. Josh Fries was one of them. Fucked, yeah. So, like, heavy drummers, and our drummer got hurt. We're going to the UK to start our headliner for, our first headliner for our record in five days. Can you do it? And I said no, to Taylor the music director. I was like, I don't know if I can pull it off, but I'll fly to Nashville and try.

So that afternoon, they're like, we're gonna meet you at your rehearsal space and pick up your drums. I'm like, what? A semi truck meets me at my little like rehearsal space and picks up the cases and drums. And you see the cases still say Paramore on them. They pick up everything.

They pick up everything. And I fly in and I'm thinking we're gonna go to like one of the rehearsal spaces in Nashville. I fly in there rehearsing at the arena for this tour. Nice. And we had four days, 21 songs. I slept on the floor. Do you know any of them?

I knew riot stuff, misery business. That's what I would have been made. But this is Alon stuff. You know, Lawn is open hand. It starts fills with his left hand. So I stayed awake for five days. So I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day at the time. And my bar and friend's studio,

it slept on the ground. It was disgusting. And at the end, I pulled it off. And they flew me to England. And we went to Ireland. In the first show, there was 20,000 people there at the O2. The curtain dropped and I just was there naked. So a couple months later, we're playing Voodoo Fest, which is my favorite festival.

So I'm kind of getting comfortable, but I'm just now getting to where like I know these songs. Right? And they tell me Alam's going to be here today with Ninth Nish Nils. I'm like, that was more nervous about that because like this motherfucker played the record. And I think he might be one of the best. He's fucking amazing. He's insane. And real shit.

Plays the real shit. All the real is shit. He's also under at the time, he still might be under. He's way younger than me. He's seven years younger than me, and he's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah, it's a whole thing. Now I hate you.

Yeah, but he's also a sweet guy. So I'm nervous about him being there, and I know Nynos Nisna is playing, and that night we go on, it's like 9.15. It's a late festival, and I look behind me, and Ilan is standing there. And next to Alon is Trent fucking Resner. Just that watching.

Like, arms cross. Like a got bad. And it's, you know that feeling when you're like on a roller coaster or somebody tells you your girl cheated on you or like something huge? Like, yeah. I'm not joking. The same feeling I had when I found out. You got pissed the bed and you're in a dream. The same feeling I had when my, they told me my daughter had to be taken out by C-section I got in that moment.

Like everything in my head and chest went to my asshole. Yeah. Like, and I was like, what are I doing? And they stood there for like seven songs. Just bobbing their head. Trent resident Bobbi's powerful. Yep. That's fucking cool.

And then afterwards, Alon was like, ah, he did all right. No way. Yeah, he's like, he's like, you did pretty good, man. You did pretty good.

Fuck you. I didn't punch him. No, I mean, he was so sweet. He didn't mean it. He just was like, he meant it. No, I mean, but I kind of prefaced it was like, I think I might have dropped this film.

You know, he was, and he's like, you did pretty good, man. Like, pretty good. Don't beat yourself off, but I thought that I was just like, fuck. Like, pretty good as a six. But there was another show that he saw where, thank God, Trent wasn't there.

He's like, you crushed it, like a couple months later. So, like, that was my 19-year-old story. And that's why I don't want to meet Trent, because I'm so scared. He'll be like, you know that dude that fucked up a lot. And if, Fred Reznor, no offense to you or apparently, Fred Meznor remembers a festival. Yeah, I don't know, dude. Yeah, it's a while.

On the, the live video that we're already talking about with all the lights, would have probably been that tall there's that clip from it where he's like you're ready to have a good time and everyone's like yeah and he says that was the other guys

we're here to have a bad time and then he starts fucking copy of a copy it's so sick I watched them from front of house that night and they opened with copy of a copy and it was copy of a copy is so sick

with real drums because on the record there's no real drums with those lights as well with those lights as well With a lot. Dude. I love that record, though. We've had this chat.

You don't have things without... I like hesitation marks, but I think that... Again, like we talked about an hour ago, I think that there's a feeling of, like, it's fake shit, but somebody, like, finger-grimmed it.

You know what I mean? I think... I'll die on this hill. I think the song with teeth is sexier than closer. You know, because everyone... I agree. I think it's a...

Because it's like a dirty. Closed is like quite a clean goth sex. It's like, wanna fuck you like, oh, okay, whatever. But with teeth's like, oh, with my teeth.

Like you might have done it in a bathroom. Oh, yeah, it's fucking... Dude, you posted a picture the other day of me in the crowd, like the only

mosher that turned up or something, and you were playing the with teeth beat that day. Oh, yeah, that was that day. And I can't figure out in my brain how to put it together. My body won't do it.

I tried to do it sound check the other day because it's kind of... It's janky, like... Yeah, it's like... And I was just, that guy, I don't know if this is true, the guy that played on that record is dead, I think. Like, on some of those songs, not, obviously not Dave Grohl and Josh Reuss, but there's a guy that played live during all of With Teeth. There used to be a band called the Icarus line.

The guitar player during With Teeth was that guy, because Robin was gone. And there's a drummer, I don't know where he was from. I think his name was Aaron North. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's dead. Like, I don't know. I'm going to look. But, yeah, that record, yeah, dude. Speaking of death, you played a Food Fighters cover yesterday, didn't you?

We did. How much of a bum out is that? Are you going to say no? No, no, no. No, no, growing up, I was... No, growing up, I was never into the drummers' drummers. In the 90s, getting modern drummer and stuff. I was, like, we talked about this a little bit in beginning with you telling me that I was famous back in the day or whatever.

Like, I don't... You're still famous, bro? Shut up. I'm trying to... I'm trying to articulate this. Like, I was never into, like, Carter Beaufort and Dave Weckle and Marco Miniman. And those guys have more talent in one hand than I'll ever have in my whole life. I'll never be that good as a drummer, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.

But those guys didn't speak to me. Like, being a kid and seeing the food fighters on 120 minutes at night on MTV and seeing Nirvana, that spoke to me because it was violent. And Nirvana was the first band that I saw. Like, my dad was into, like, the Eagles and Zeppelin. and John Bonham is arguably the best drummer of all time, but you look at those guys like they're gods. My dad would show me videos of the stones playing.

It's like, or the who. Like, those are gods. You can never do that. And then I saw Nirvana when I was 10 years old on television. And it was horrible, like a mess. It sounded like shit. It was on an award show. But everyone was enamored by it.

And so those drummers were the drummers that spoke to me. And Taylor, I loved because he came from, he came from playing on jagged little pill for alonis and then he like slid into the skin into this dave's skin that was like violent and like not paredittles you know what i mean it was like fucked so he was the i think i really believe on the upper echelon he's like the last guy he was the last guy it was devastating it's fucking crazy i've never been like a huge i haven't a running joke of like hating the few fires but i don't actually hate the few fires but i don't actually hate the few fires So the first probably four food fires records I'm fucking love.

They're perfect, yeah. But I was a drum teacher for 10 years, and the, like, the minute the kids' parents see that I have tattoos, they would always go, oh, you know, we're into the heavy stuff too, like the foods. And it would just be like, it became a joke where I just, like, tell people that I hate food fires. But obviously I don't. What I had on my fucking Instagram, because I make jokes about fucking everything, I had a number of kids after I posted an RIP thing.

Yeah. Who messaged me saying, oh, so not the most overrated band anymore. Or it's stuff like that. Like, oh, because I don't like the music of a band anymore, I want the drummer to be dead. Like, are you fucking hearing yourself?

Dude. I deleted it because of it. I saw you deleted it. I was wondering if it was because people were... I mean, he was arguably, like, in my opinion, the only... Dave Girl is my favorite drummer. Fact.

He's the only... He's incredible. He was the only drummer. could play for Dave Grohl. Do you think that they'll keep going? My first instinct was, well, just get Dave Grohl, but he's doing other stuff in the same band.

Yeah. You're right. I mean, how does it work? Like, I... Well, I'm Rubin? Yeah. But fucking, I don't think... I don't know.

It's wild because, dude, bring it down. One more notch on the downbeat. Jesus Christ. Think about... Think about fucking Dave losing Kurt and now this. It's fucking horrible.

If I were him, I would just go home day for a while. I don't think he can in him. No, it's in him. He's like, he's one of us. Oh, dude, I'll tell my Dave Girl Store, then we can finish. You got a Dave Girl Story? It's fantastic.

I need your top five bands of all the time, no. I'll do that. I'll do that for that. My Dave Girl story is tragic. In 2009, I've never met Dave Grohl, by the way. In 2009, I was flying back from New Zealand with Under Oath. My ex-wife was with me, and we were like, we were four rows behind Dave Groh.

Dave Grohl sitting next to him was John Paul Jones from Led Zeppelin. They were down there doing them Brooklyn, Brooklyn, Brooklyn, and Food Fighters. Like, that's my shit. Jeez, I could just say something. They were like drinking wine. It's 14 hours. And I didn't say a word. And I was like, fuck, dude, I messed up.

And you get to LAX and LAX, everyone has to collect their baggage before you can clear customs. They're like from me to the wall. And my ex-wife's like, you should say something. I can't. Fuck, I can't. You're like me. I can't. It gets so much worse.

We leave. I'm kicking myself for a few days. Two weeks later, we have a flyout, and Spencer was in, Spencer, the singer for Under Earth was in L.A. doing some press or whatever. And Dave Grohl was in the airport, and they both had a layover or whatever. And Spencer went up to Dave and was like, I know this sucks. But, like, I just want to tell you how much you've helped me through so much shit and inspired me. And he goes, come on, man. Let me buy you a coffee.

These are the sort of things that I've heard. And he sat with Dave Grohl for an hour. And Dave Grohl had heard of under oath. And the whole fucking thing. And they switched to... You could have been getting drunk on a plane. And they switched to beer. And the whole fucking thing.

That's such a cool thing. The Dave paid the fucking bill. And it was a thing. And I was... I'm still pissed. It was 15 years ago. You just fucking dropped. 2009, dude.

That's the kind of shit that I do because I'm too pussy to be like, hey man. And even if he was an asshole, though. At least I, at least I could say it. Yeah. I've never had, no, I've never been in the presence of someone I truly would like to speak to. Trent Reznor, I probably would. You think you would do it? Fuck yeah.

Because I want to know. Does it, I know he probably cares so little about me. Does it matter as, what happens if he's a dick? Trent Rezner, who gives a fuck? Oh, I'm going to tell Chris's story. player Chris is like favorite band as Pantara. And you like Pantara? I mean, love them.

And now I'm like, ugh. It's crazy. Yeah, this is also like 15 years ago. We were Australia and one of Phil Ensemble, Lois, the singer's bands. I don't know if it was down or I don't know what it was. He had two bands, didn't he? After Panttaire. I can't remember.

Super joint ritual, I don't know. I think it might have been super joint, but my old drum tech and Chris, who are where massive fans are in the lobby of the hotel and they say Phil walk in. and Chris who's like the most jolly he's like the best human is like Phil like can I get a picture

and Phil goes and this is how I would want to meet Phil Enzomel goes puts his hand up save it for the show brother which I think is that's a bad that's a bad meeting of a hero

but it's also fucking awesome like if that's how you met Phil Osama save it for the show brother that's fucking funny it's so sick dude So sick. You guys suck, so, he does that.

Yeah, he does. What is, I've got one plane story. I wasn't even there for it, but your plane story just reminded me. Have you ever heard Sam Architect's plane story? No. Soundwave festival. You know, like you fucking fly

the flights because everyone's just flying. It's like the, it's like download. I mean, it's like Soundwave used to be. Sorry, it is Soundwave. So, architects are on a plane. Corn are further up the plane and over the fucking intercom thing obviously you know cabin crew checksets ready for boarding or whatever ready for takeoff and Sam Carter goes

are you ready really fucking corn and the rest of the plane like explodes laughing oh we did a nine week tour with corn I never met Jonathan Davis Not once. Or the old age. He's too busy getting fucking oxygen. Never met the two of them. Never met them. The drummer, so sweet.

Head and monkey, the best. The bass player and the singer, never fucking... He looks a bit like Trent Reson. He does. By that, I mean, you do so someone's got that. That'll do it. Over top five bands, because I'm not going to take your... I've got the sound check, and I don't...

I'm going to have beer. Nice. Top five bands of all time, or artists. Oh, mine's fucked, dude. It's really bad. We need to do a part two because there's so much you I'm talking about. This is so fun, by the way. Thank you, man.

This is so killer. We should have done it earlier on, but we should have done three. We looked so forward to doing this, and I'm glad we did it today, because it's been perfect with you hungover and the whole thing. The last day of the tour, wrapping it up, thank you for coming on the tour again.

It was so, my favorite tour we've ever done. I'm honestly exactly the same, but I'm going to be stand afterwards. Same. In no particular order, top five would be Nine-E-N-H-Nails, Metallica. Yeah. with the same fucking human.

Yeah. Yep. Same Metallica. Rank me five in a row, Metallica. I don't know if I can do that. Do they have to be in order? Yes. That's the problem.

The Black album? I knew that was going to be your number one. And Justice for All? You're going to hate the next year. You're not going to believe what I'm about to say. By the look of your NASCAR T-shirt. Load and reload? Yeah.

Both of them in your top five? Yes. See, I, I. You want to hear what my number five is? You're going to be so mad. S&M. I know. S&M is fucking amazing. That's my top five.

We did S&M the other day, me and when Drew was driving up and way into Canada, and I realized that Lode and Reload are fucking great. And if you took any of the songs from Load and Reload and you put them on the black album, they would have... Do you want to know why I like Lode? It's so stupid.

When I was a kid and they put out the video for... What was the first single on load? Oh, the spooky video. The video that's got... No, the one we're on the cliff, where they're on the cliff. And Kirk has... I can't remember what fucking the name of the song is. I know the song.

I'm not going to sing it on your podcast. Kirk is on the edge of this cliff, and he has a brown jacket on. It's the first time I ever saw it, without anything that wasn't dark and black. And he's playing a blue strat. Like a reliced blue strat, not an ESP with like an ice pick headstock.

And I was like... That's the coolest thing I've ever seen. That's a heavy band. Playing you straight. Yeah. So, Ninest Nils, Metallica. And Metallica is also a family thing. Like, I don't listen to Metallica very often anymore.

It just comes from when I was a kid on the weekends. My uncle, my ex-uncle, my cousin's dad that got divorced from my aunt's dad would pick us all up. My dad wasn't around. He'd pick us all up and take us go cards and shit, and he always played load and reload. That's how I got into Metallica. Anyway. Number three would be the Stone. This is not in order.

So rocking. It's pretty rock. Yeah. I like it. Because the Stones is a blues band that's like really unhinged and they learned how to play growing up together, which I feel has a lot of parallels to our band. Obviously we're an eighth iota of the size of the stones. I'm not saying I'm not comparing under oath to the stones. But, and then Johnny Cash.

Do you want to know one little bit of information about the stones? Go. they are the human beings on the planet that have been seen in the flesh by the most other human beings on earth that's true because of the amount of shows and how big their shows are

and they're still going seen in the flesh by more people than anyone I do think it's fucking weird that Charlie dies and they just keep trucking the next week ever it'd be like the Marvel universe like the next week just fucking come back Like the next week, they go on the stadium tour.

So that's, is that three? I think it's four. I said Johnny Cash. So Johnny Cash, to me, is the embodiment of feeling and of violence to me. I grew up on mostly country music. My mom toured in a Southern gospel band, like Christian country music my whole life. So Johnny Cash to me is like the embodiment of like the feeling that I want to feel when I listen and play music where it's like barely on the rails. You know what I mean?

You can hear a lot of the paint. Yeah, and then number five for me, and I say this with trepidation, but this is the artist out of the list that I listen to the most still is Third Eye Blind. American people love it so much. I know. You know how many times this has come up on the box? I know. And I've got nothing for you. And I know that people hate Stephen Jenkins.

I don't even know who he is. He's the singer of Third Eye Blind and I've never met the guy know nothing about him. There's all these rumors that he's a dick and that he can't sing and I don't care. like it's one of the only bands where I truly think the ocean between the UK like third eye blind doesn't travel the pond doesn't travel there's something about that first third eye blind record where much again much like you know the 80s and the whole thing they came along and did this thing that was vital and real and it hit me at just the right time there's a song called graduate and a song called jumper

I was in high school. People, I knew, I was acquainted since with a few people that had committed suicide. And then I was graduating high school. And it was just those two things. Those two songs, a song called Jumping, a song called Graduate. And I listen to every record after religiously, and I still do. Out of that whole... So does everyone in my band?

Out of that whole list, that's the band I listened to the most. I, before the world shut down, the last concert I saw, my wife and I went to, Right before she got pregnant, we went to Third Eye Blind and Jimmy World co-headliner, and we drank bottles of wine. It was the best show of our bed too. And I kind of fucking relate, because I don't give a shit. And you wouldn't get the shit. You wouldn't, and you shouldn't. Like knowing you, it just seems, it sounds so American to me, and it just seems like I just can't. There's UK bands like that.

Yeah, I know. But what's the UK band that has the strangest name? I love the band so much. The sleet of mods. Catfish in the bottom. That's fucking sick. Amazing. No one cares but me.

No one cares over here, but they're pretty big back. They're huge back home, but like that latest record with that song 7 on it is incredible. Because there's fucking sadness in there. So is there in third-up? You don't like third-up blind. Fuck you. I don't care. I need to sound check.

You're the best. You're the best. My new friend, Aaron. Yep. Dear friend. official handshake. Thank you, buddy.