The Downbeat - Aaron Marshall - Intervals

Episode Date: November 6, 2020

My guest this week is Aaron Marshall, virtuoso guitarist and better known as the brains/everything behind the musical group Intervals. Aaron started Intervals in Ontario Canada as an outlet for his musical creativity in 2011 and it has since existed in many different iterations. We talk about the band's beginnings and various line ups as well as his unlikely inspirations that draw from the unlikeliest of places. We also go deep on fitness, mental and physical rehabilitation, microdosing, supplementation and way more. It was a great chat.

What the fuck's going on? Boys, girls, theys, thems, whatever, however, whomever you identify as. Welcome to the Downbeat Podcast. We're in November. I don't know how we got here. We've done a Halloween. I hope you dressed up. If you didn't dress up, I hope they had a good time. I hope you're continuing to have a good time. We've got Crimbus coming up. That'll be good, won't it? Or if you don't celebrate Crembus, then you've got a period of extended cold unless you live in Australia, in which case you are probably not wearing enough SPF 50. Please pop some on because it is a jungle out there. You've got no, well, number one, you've got spiders.

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And if you're just listening, thank you too as well. Just, you know, just thanks for being here. My guest this week is Aaron Marshall. He's the brains and the brawn and the drip of intervals. It's like a one-man band thing, but it wasn't a one-man band thing. And now it is again. It started as it, but then it isn't as a big story. We talked about that.

We talked about micro-dosing mushrooms. We talked about fitness. We talked about just loads of shit. It was really fucking good. He's really good at guitar. He's got a new album coming out. Circadian. Might be out by now.

Out on November 13th. It's very good. It's not your typical instrumental guitar vibe. I talk about this in The Thing. In The Thing, it's called a podcast, mate. You do them for a living. I talk about how I can hear some unique influences, and it basically uncovers the man behind the music.

VH1 Presents. Behind the music. Aaron Marshall, aka Intervals on the Downbeat Podcast. Hello, Aaron. Is it Marshall? Yeah. I just, in my head, it's Aaron intervals. Everybody says that.

Yeah, last name is Marshall. No relation to the British amplifier company. Such a guitarist name. What's your name? Oh, it's Aaron Marshall, bro. Named after a fucking whole ass amplifier. Yeah, no. No relation, but that'd be nice.

That'd be nice. I've got some things. I want to set the scene right now, I've started doing these on FaceTime because with a view I'm going to be going video but I want it to be super high quality I don't want it. This would be entertaining for people to watch

and your quality is very good but when I get someone who isn't Virtuoso Gattaro's studio guy I'm going to get like fucking Game Boy Advance quality so that's not going to happen but you sat there in a lovely gaming chair

you've got a lovely shade of grey on that wall behind you and you've got one thing about your photos as well when I see them on Instagram I'm like you've always got the drip it's a good look that's a gray wall I'm like has the house also got the drip I didn't choose the I didn't choose the drip in the house so I got lucky with that but massive accolade from from the king of drip himself though I'm looking at if we're going to set the scene. I'm looking at a, at a, we got a, a, a coral vibe happening with the, it's, it's exactly coral. It's coral, yeah, with the aqua, we got the aqua marine vibe on top. And,

we got this. So we got, he's basically a merman, essentially. What, yeah, well, you can't see. I got the, I got the, I got the Nike tech fleece, oh, yeah, camo on. Let's go. I'm actually wearing, I'm wearing black tech fleece right now myself, so. The best, aren't they? And you know what's the most annoying thing about them, like planned obsolescence. They go bobbily in one second, but I will spend a hundred bucks on a pair because they, until that happens, they're the best. Yeah, they're sick. The other annoying thing is Nike will give neither of us anything for talking about that. So yeah, in fact, fuck them. Fuck you guys. Fuck the sneakers app that I lose on at 8 a.m. every single fucking morning of my life. Dude, I kind of tuned sneakers out this year because

we don't leave the house. So it's like, you know what I mean? Well, like a little bit. I mean, the summer was, the summer was good. But now that it's getting colder here, things are, I mean, we're not going to do this conversation on the podcast, but you know what, you know what you are? Yes, we are. Okay. All right. All right. I mean, Canada is probably resembling something similar to what you have going on in the UK. I think our governments are handling things a little bit different. But we're sort of receding back into the second phase of, uh, not, lockdown, but I'll kind of like set the tone for you. Like lock, actual lockdown was probably about 18 weeks of like, yeah, just nothing but the grocery store in the bank. And then in August,

like right around the time we went to Ottawa to record drums for the record, that very week was when the gym came back. So, and it was like, you know, you could book a one hour workout on through an app. So I was like booking at a gym I've never been to, same chain of gym. but like we're going, we recorded with, uh, Dean Haji Cristo, um, out in, uh, Ottawa. Um, Dean did all the latest Parkway drive stuff. Um, and, uh, maybe you know his brother George, actually, that's a tangent, but, um, he does front of house for Parkway. Um, I may have met him, but I'm fucking legends, the both of them, just legends. So anyhow, we were out there and I finally got the gym back and then, uh, was able to train until about three weeks.

ago and then when the weather got colder here and the numbers started to rise again, they took the gym's gone again. But there was like a little bit of a hopeful email that came out like about a week and a half ago where they were like, yeah, your membership's going to kick back in. It was only just for certain regions, just for Toronto proper, like where all the bodies are. And then I got an email like a week later that was like, write your MP about why the fitness industry is being poorly abused during the pen. And then I'm like, well, that's not. very, uh,

fucking hopeful. Opening next week of you. No. And then, uh, I got the, I got an email this morning that, that,

that says that, uh, they're valuing, uh, reevaluating and valuing the fitness industry in a way that they have probably, uh, neglected or not considered in terms of,

I mean, because, you know, people, rehab and injuries and stuff. It's not just about gains, right? So,

I'm like, I'm fully, I don't know where I stand with this whole thing. Because on the one, side, our gyms only opened up again end of September. So I'm talking about, I've only been back in the gym for a month. Damn. I'm fucking loving it.

Yeah. Mentally, I'm much better and a lot of people are. But all the things that you wanted from it. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, I know there's statistics where they say there's, in the UK, they're saying there's close to zero transmissions from gyms. But if I was to design a bacteria breeding ground, it would be. be the gym. So I don't know. I feel the same way about it, but here's the thing. Zero outbreaks

traced to gyms here. The only one that I heard about was just outside the city and it was an independent cycling studio. So obviously with respiration in an indoor environment, that's what you're at your, that's what, yeah, that's what you're asking for. But as far as the gym goes, like, I feel so bad for anyone who who works at a damn gym because now you're just a janitor, aren't you? So it's like, to be honest, man, it's cleaner than it's ever been. It's probably too damn clean in there. I kind of love it. Like, everyone's wiping their shit down. Yeah. It's the way it should have been. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so like, fucking we got the gym back and then they took it away. So I've been, and I've been rehabbing like some postural and mobility related stuff from years of

being a guitar player. I hear you talk about, you know, your stuff all the time on the podcast, like things that injuries and things that. And hey, drive. drums are not easy on the body, but neither is guitar. It's like awkward, myostatic holds in the worst way that you want to be kind of thing, you know? Yeah. Josh from architects, like, suffered real bad with shit like that. Just, I wonder what he's, how he's, what he's done to overcome stuff, because for me, it started with Cairo to fix my forward head carriage. Like, my neck was fucked, dude. And then I managed to actually turn that around throughout the, the, um, the course of lockdown. when there was not much to do. At least I was able to see a carpactor before everything shut down. And she

gave me this sort of like awkward implement that you lie on to reshape your cervical. So like it puts the curve back in your neck. I bet everybody needs to do this from just from tech neck. Like looking at your phone. I definitely have it. And then it'll fuck with your shoulder mobility. Right. And I've already got shoulder impingement from years of guitar playing and working in a guitar store. I had a little incident one time where I was putting a last Paul standard and a hook that was just too far out of reach and something around the clavicle first rib area on my right shoulder kind of reset itself. And ever since then, I would get these weird sensations in the right arm. I remember recording the first interval, ZEP, hating my life because I was like losing

sensation in my right arm. I had a similar thing, exactly the same area, but my own fucking dumb fault. I was doing this is insane. I should have gone to hospital when I didn't. I was doing weighted dips with a dumbbell. And I was getting to my last rep. And I thought I had a heart attack. Something exploded in my chest. And I shit you not, six months it hurt. And I should have went to a doctor and figured out what it was.

Never did. And now my periodically, I think the scar tissue builds up and then pulls my shoulder forward. Yes. And then that's when I get fucking. in serious injuries. Even if I double down on my back workouts and stuff, it still needs like myo facial release. You should get a,

go ahead, go ahead. I used to go to a Cairo. I've been to like three or four, and two of them have been good and two of them have been absolute fucking just thieves. Quacky. They can be quacky. Yeah.

But I can't, I wouldn't have fixed my hip without my my last Cairo that I found because he basically fixed the problem and told me what to do and what was going wrong and whatever and now that shit's fixed.

You should get a Farragun. That's the handheld muscle guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They rock. My girlfriend got me one for my birthday and I use it every single day on tight areas. The best for releasing the neck and the traps,

like the pecs and the delts and everything is just like blast your pecks first and it kind of lets the shoulder go, right? And then you hit the delt, bicep, tricep, trap neck scenario. And the whole thing, if you strengthen your back the next day or you do any sort of corrective, like, you know, prone like cobras off the ground with some bands or some like blackburns or like any of that, the shit we don't want to do in the gym, the really boring, corrective postural stuff, you need to, you need to loosen up the front first, right? As musicians are just as modern humans were so front dominant that like you need to constantly be working on that posterior chain. It's a big, it's a really big problem for me. In fact, after lockdown, because of months sitting in this chair making a record, my whole upper torso was twisted. My hips were completely out of line. Like my pelvis was completely crooked, like to the point where like one of my legs was like an inch and a half shorter than the other. And then on top of that thoracic mobility was really bad. And like, like,

like shoulders were just just junk. So I had a lot of work to do and I still have a lot of work to do. And then they took the damn gym away. So that's not. Yeah, you know what I mean? But the, um, yeah, the legs being shorter than the other thing, right? I always find when I get my hips aligned from a Cairo, exponentially helps my squat, helps me playing the drums and everything.

But I did also hear. that almost everyone on earth because of driving. Oh. Their legs are out anyway. There's constant postures we find ourselves in every single day. Look, life isn't perfect. Life is an idea. You can't just, I think about it all the time.

Like, oh, I just went for an expensive adjustment. I'm sitting here in the car with one leg jacked up or I'm sitting with the guitar in my lap with the right hip ball jacked up. Immediately. And I'm like, I'm literally doing the thing that caused it. You just kind of have to get over that and just realize that, you know, every once in a while you pay the money you get knocked back into shape and then you know it's better than not correcting it at all so that's what I tell myself I have a question for you though with

your shoulder thing how do you put a barbell on your back does that affect because for me until I fix my neck my fucking arms would go numb with a barbell on my back um no that doesn't the only thing that bothers me is weirdly enough bench pressing okay and not even... Yeah, that'll do it. But it's not even like, you know, I've been to physios and stuff, and they were like, you want to use dumbbells instead? I was like, no, same amount of pain.

And what I figured out the problem was, there's just, if this is tight, so I need to foam roll my chest before I go to the gym. Or a lacrosse ball or something. Yeah, exactly. Or pushing or pulling. But the... How tight it is, if it gets... it's weird if I pause a bench press we haven't even talked about the fucking guitar yet

if I was waiting for that if I pause a bench but I don't know anything about guitar so this is fine if I pause a bench press it's fine and like completely lose all the tension and then go from zero obviously it's much harder but I don't feel any pain at all it's like one point if where like where high hypertrophy would occur so where the muscle is like tense, that will fuck me up. So now I just like, I pause for two seconds every bench. So everyone thinks that I'm a psycho and they're like, that goes fucking sick. But really it's just like, if I don't do this, I will scream in pain. No, that makes sense. Yeah. Benches never been my favorite. I definitely prefer the dumbbells and free weights and stuff. Really been enjoying doing a chest workout off a yoga ball,

which is really hard to do. Like if you do chest press with free weights, but you're having to glute bridge and stabilize your entire trunk while like your upper back and your neck and your traps are resting on like a Swiss ball because the entire thing is like, you know, moving under you so then you get that like stability sort of aspect. It takes the weight down in your hands, but it gives you a core workout as well as a chest workout. So that's pretty fun. I got to be weird with core workouts because I can squat on tour. I can squat the day that I go and play.

drums. I can deadlift on the day. I can bench on the day. But if you gas yourself then if I do the if I do a fucking core workout with Drew body weight and then I go and try and play the drums and my fucking sew ass and everything is just fried. I cannot fucking do it and I'm just dog shit. So you should get a you should get a sew right as well for a tour you know that thing? So expensive. It's so expensive. I instead I just fucking I got a Thericane you know. And you just dig it in? And I just fucking smash that fucker in. Oh my God.

Especially I've been a naughty boy. You fucking played bad last night. Dude, yeah. But the so rights are sick. The so right. It's just a whole thing. It's nice for the lower back too. I know.

Give me one for fucking free. They gave Joe Rogan a truckload of them so you should probably get at least two. Yeah, exactly. I'm not even giving a platform to right-wing criminals, you know? Oh, my. Oh my goodness. Yeah, no. Hey, good shit. We got to talk about music.

I know. I love, well, I had a feeling that we would sort of descend into this early on, but at least we got it out of the way. And now we're going to talk about music. So, I mean, people don't really care. I think the, the episodes people, like, talk about the most of the ones with the dumbest stories. Like, no one goes to fuck. I was looking at figures the other day because I wanted to just see how the episode with Bryce did. I listened to that one. It was great. Fellow Canuck as well. Fuck yeah. It was like fucking, it's like 5.2,000 first week.

People were stoked. Which is like, I mean, it's not as much as music ones. Music ones are like, if it's a big person that's around 16 to 20 or whatever. But I've had drummers

who had less in the first week. So I think people will just want to hear people just fucking chat. Speaking of Toronto, yeah. Have you got, Fortis, is that in Toronto? Yes, and that's where I used to train with,

so I went to high school with this guy Alex Fernandez and he's a really awesome lifter and he's a trainer here in the city and before life got weird, I was training at Fortis with, I know a few people that train out of there, but there's a dude, what the hell is that guy's name? He has a YouTube channel and he shoots out of there. Omar.

Yeah, Omar. Omar Issafe. Yeah. So that's how I know Fortis because I, watch his YouTube channel. Yeah. I've seen him shooting in there before and stuff. I got a buddy as well,

Zach Parker, who's a insane lifter. The dude's a literal mutant. And I saw him pre-contest prep in there. I'm training him with my dude, just trying to just get my body right. And then there's Zach just like in full demon mode. I'm just like,

oh, man. And he's the size of a fucking house. Like, you're just so crazy. But yeah, I've seen Omar in person too. He's definitely, definitely a big guy. you know, and he knows his shit, so. I like him because he's like 100% honest. There's so many people on YouTube who are like definitely juicing,

and they're just like, I'm not. No, you're not. I just, at least I respect the people who are just honest about it because there's nothing wrong with not being natural. You just just don't hide it. That's all. It's all good. Yeah, you're selling fake products if you're pretending to be natural.

It's all snake oil at that point. I would just be, I think the, I think the legality of it in America is difficult for people to admit. But in the UK, most of the bodybuilders in the UK, like the late Luke Sando and Jamie Joe Hull and stuff like that, like, they like talk pretty openly about it because it's legal to have them here. It's not legal to sell them, but it's legal to have them, so they're pretty fucking open. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure.

PEDs. Yeah, I don't know how we got there. Carry on. Carry on. The only thing I was going to say was, it's funny how many people from the fitness industry that you see on YouTube and stuff are actually here in Toronto or in Canada in general. So, you know, I knew Bryce was in Calgary

and then you've got Greg Doucettes out in Halifax. He's fucking hilarious. And then Brandon Harding was here training in Toronto for like and living here for a super long time and his girlfriend is from out here. And he's a Brit. and who else is here? Regan Grimes, if you know Regan, he's a big dude from London, Ontario. That guy is super jacked. It's not even fair how big that guy is, but he's from like,

you've probably been to the London Music Hall. You've been to the London Music Hall, right? Oh, yeah, and you go out the back, there's fucking nothing there, but then there's a tiny little ramen place on the corner that fucking ruled. Absolutely slaps, and there's also Cousin Vinnie's pizza if you go the other way through the alley and um yeah line and sketch good life fitness good life fitness that's where i train shopping mall yeah yeah yeah that's where i go when we're there yeah yeah good life is the one fucking dollars 20 dollars a fucking day pass but it look can i pay it's minus it's minus yeah they pay you to work out um i uh i have a good life membership but it actually gets me access to a bunch of American gyms.

So that's what I do on tour is anytime fitness, which is really only up the PNW and in the West Coast. You know the one and they're really sick. They're in the UK as well. Fuck yeah. Few and far between, but they are in the UK. I feel like that's, but I'm going to fucking try and wind up the fitness chat, but I feel like why is it that no one has McDonald's fitness like properly?

Like anytime is the only one. one which is worldwide to an extent. But no one's really fucking KFCed that shit, where it's like every city and every country. Has the same one, yeah. I mean, Good Life bought all the gold's gyms here in Ontario. Could be actually the case for Canada. Here's the last bit about fitness.

My mom was 1987 Women's All Ontario Bodybuilding Champion before she had me. Oh my good God. So it's in your blood. Yeah, except she had a fucking, musician's son with horrible posture. Yeah, but he's fixing that. Yeah, he's fixing that. I can't wait to train with you when I'm in next in Toronto.

Ah, man, I need to get it back, bro. I mean, I got a lot of limited stuff. Like, I have to work with the trap bar from deadlifting. There's no traditional deadlift for this guy. That's fun, though. Chronically, chronically tight tendons that limit my hamstrings. No amount of work or like voodoo science can get the stuff behind my knees to release and it's not the, you know, because when you look into this stuff, it's like, you've got to stretch.

No, it's a weak muscle, you've got to strengthen it. And it's like, there's all this conflicting stuff and it doesn't matter how professional or how much electroacupuncture, cupping or wild stuff, they just won't let go. So it's, it is what it is. I feel like I suffer from a similar thing because I will just, my, I do one set of squats and my hamstrings for days. dead. Completely fucking destroyed. And I can't play drums when it's like that. So what I need to do,

it's fine if I'm continuing to do it. But if I do like, you know, like bro splits where it's like, I'll train legs and then seven days later, I'll train legs again. The doms last for six of the days. And then I'm doing it again.

So I'm shit of drums. So what I do now is I go to the gym six days a week, but I do far less. I go legs push, legs push, pull, day off, legs push, pull.

Nice. That's a good split. I'm in there for like, I'm in there for like 30 minutes max. Just get in, get out. Get in, get out. I never feel tired. It's good. So we absolutely did 23 minutes of fitness.

So that's good. We got it out of our system, man. We knew we were going to do it. So here we go. Anyone listening who didn't like that? Fuck you. No, it's all good. It's on you.

The technology exists for you to fucking skip that. Because you knew we were going to talk about, you knew we were going to talk about music at some point. point you didn't you're in control and you didn't steer the you didn't take the wheel so you skip to now and then now what we're going to do is i'm gonna go i'm gonna go so your band is you but it used to not be you but before that it was you hey he's done his homework so and then i remember it yeah yeah so before i even go on who you got beef with ha um that that's such a that's such a non-diplomatic way to frame that

no i just i just thought it would be funny because i just know any time that is the case that's what people think there's always beef yes and no but okay so i started making music uh with a laptop and a pod x t in like 2010 or 2011 and

I'm going to really try to give you the Cole's notes. Basically, I released one song on YouTube. Intervals was just like my buddy coerced me into choosing a name that isn't my own because I just wasn't really comfortable with it. And I just chose it as a project name and just kind of is what it is. So I put that up and that video and the song sort of garnered more traction than anything musically I had ever done with like my local bands or anything that I had ever done prior. So obviously, you know, Um, if you're type A like, like me, you get hooked on results. You want more. So I continued to write. And in the process, um, Matt Halpern had actually, uh, heard a track, maybe one or two. Uh, funny enough, the first time I met Matt, um, we went down to they were playing

summer slaughter. It was like 2010 or 2011 in Toronto. Is there like one of their first times in Toronto? I went down with Andrew from structures and, uh, because I grew, up with those kids and we used to play in other local bands and stuff. So we went down and we met Matt because we had all been internet friends and we never met in person. I gave him a demo and he took it back with him and was listening to it, you know, subsequently and then had reached out and been like, man, you have a drummer? And I was like, no, not yet. I'm just programming all these drums. And he's like, oh, one of my previous students would be such a killer fit for you. You know, maybe it could work out. And that was a noop. So,

Yes. So Anoop and I connected and he was really excited about the stuff I was writing because one, he liked the music. Two, he liked that I compose program drums like a drummer because I am a drummer, which you probably didn't know as well. I do not know that. Drums are my second instrument and I wanted them to be my first, but they're my second, which is why I'm able to create full compositions by myself. So I attribute that solely to the fact that I'm able to manipulate drums. You can grow melodically and do all the things on top and you have your entire career to continue doing. that, but if you don't have rhythm or pocket or an understanding of how the kit functions or how a human functions behind the kit, then it's going to be perilous for you. So, yeah, so we hit it off because he really enjoyed what I was doing with the music and the drums and everything. And then he had put a playthrough on his YouTube. He asked me, do you mind if I put up a playthrough? And like, I had already known, that was not my first introduction to A nupe. I already knew A nupe because I was a fan of the guy in the red jersey smash.

way on YouTube. So I, um, is a fucking legend. So yeah, so we connected and honestly, just to fast forward a bit, like I rushed a bunch more material just so we could preemptively take a show that Halpern had invited me to open for periphery. It was periphery, the human abstract textures and the contortionist. And it was the Fract the Gods tour in like 2000 and 10 or 11. You probably remember. I do remember it because I remember being stoked for textures for finally getting to America. America. Yes, fuck yeah. Legendary band. Oh, my goodness. I'm going to go smash records after this. Yeah, that's a good, good little reminder. Um, so anyway, um, basically, Anup drove 10 hours from Frederick Maryland to Toronto and we jammed in a room for under 90 minutes and played our first show. And, um, yeah. And it was like just a couple other songs that I had rushed just to be able to even have a set really at the end of the day. And that was this sort of, that was like the impetus for the, you know,

the inception of intervals, really. And, or conception, I should say, whichever one doesn't matter. So basically, drummer from the human abstract, Brett Powell, piques an interest to what we have going on that night. The band was about to go on a hiatus. We kept in touch for about a year. I told him that I didn't want him to manage my band for a year straight. He was basically saying, I want to manage artists.

We're going on hiatus. And I told him no. And then he was like, well, let me do it and show you what's missing in your formula. And I'm going to show you results that like I think you could attain, but we could do it faster. I'm just going to open some doors and be more organized. And I was like, yeah, awesome. So that's really kind of how things started and created a sophomore instrumental EP, the in time EP, which we did with Jordan Valerite of, you know, early structures and counterparts fame. And, uh, you know, that's, that's the, it's funny because we're like one of not very many instrumental or progressive bands from Canada, let alone just in, in general, but we're from that like

416-905 hardcore scene, like Silverstein counterparts, structures, dead and divine, uh, straight reads the line, like all these bands from out here. Um, back in the heyday when there was like a scene here. So we were born from that and I was completely content with playing instrumental music, but I did leave the door open to see what it would be like to maybe have a vocalist because to me being closed-minded is the antithesis of being progressive. So and I've always felt that way from the beginning. If you're going to exist under that umbrella, you better try everything at least once. So I decided that that was maybe something we wanted to explore. And, and And this is where you and I sort of kind of come close, but not really,

because an ex-member of a project you were involved with became the touring bass player in my project who then graduated to vocalist. And you know what I love? And you know what we're going to do? We are just going to call, we're just going to call that an ex-member of my old band. Yeah, perfect. And that's that. And that's that.

But yeah, he joined and you can carry on. but that's just what that is called. Sure, absolutely. A band I was once in. Yeah, absolutely. And actually, that's when I would have found... We don't want 40,000 people go in there. No, no, no, we don't have to be...

I mean, you wanted to have this conversation, so I had to kind of, like, just graze over it. That's fine, that's fine. Yeah. I just... I've been baited before into, like... Yeah, yeah, we don't go out. Mention, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, no, no. Good. All good. So, anyway, um, basically, we were on tour across Canada with structures. It was intervals, Texas and July... No, intervals North Lane, Texas and July structures. Halifax to Vancouver and 2013.

And we were at the West End Cultural Center in Winnipeg. And my guys took me aside and said, you know, I would... I had already floated the idea that maybe this individual would be, you know, a worthy candidate of exploring that option. I never was like wholeheartedly in on it, but it is an idea that I was considering. And the rest of the group at the time had basically taken me aside in the van

and said, this is something that we think we actually want to do. And I was like, yeah, I think I want to try that too. So we... Unbelievable singer. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, I'm so proud of that time period. and I'm proud of the compositions because it was a time when I could explore what it felt like to not color everything in with guitar as the focal instrument in the compositions.

And I still absolutely had a lot of interplay with the vocal and everything. And I still really felt like I was fulfilled in the compositions and doing what it is that I want to do. Talented singer, but there was just some stuff that was going on. We did about 100 shows as that iteration of intervals. Show number one being, what's that venue? It's a German venue and it is not Nuremberg.

It is another one. And it's in like an abattoir and like a courtyard. You've definitely played there. I can't remember what it's called. A courtyard. And if you play in the summer, they have a barbecue. This was the dead of winter. and it was inside, so I don't know about that,

but there was meat hooks everywhere. It was like an old outdoor abattoir, and it's like a B-market German city. And it's not Nuremberg. No, and it's not... Oh, it's going to bug me. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's not really important, but for a show.

You know? So we got started, and by the way, that tour was Tessera... Sorry, is protest the hero Tesseract to safety fire intervals in winter 2014. So, London show for that would have been an electric ballroom. Fucking lineup. Fucking lineup and do that bus. It was Intervals Tessorak protest the hero.

It's fucking sick, dude. What a bus. I need to know what the venue is, so I'm looking at it up. Continue talking, though. I might have the word sub in it. Or maybe not, and I'm making that up. I'd have to, I don't know, I'd have to pull that up. So we started over there and we did, you know, four or five weeks in the dead of winter.

in Europe were protests and Tessor Act. And the shows were awesome. But we were really cutting our teeth. What, you got it? It's Carl Drew. It's substage in Carl Drew. Oh, yeah. That's it.

Cool. I like that venue. Yeah. Fuck yeah, dude. So anyway, I mean, I love playing in Europe in general. I miss it so much. It was orange back then, that venue. All orange.

All the walls, everything orange. So basically, we did that run. We had two weeks off. went right into the North American iteration of that tour. Protest the hero. Battlecross, the safety fire intervals night verses. Yep.

Wow. Yep. Get your wrap your knocking around that. Number one, where the fuck is battle cross now? Number two, I forget how long night verses were going. And Doug was singing in the band at the time.

It was OG night verses. And those are my homies from like, dude, really long time. I'm wearing, I'm wearing Riley's brand right now. Learn to forget. I love, dude, I love those guys, like absolutely adore every single person in that group. Um, so anyway, we flipped the van on that tour on the night. Our record came out. Let's just cut right to that. And then, oh, yeah. And there was a lot of stuff going on, but, but, but really, it just wasn't, it wasn't happening on stage, uh, or in anyone's wedge or in my ears. I'm just going to leave it at

that. So, um, um, You know, so it just, it wasn't feeling right and things were getting tense. And we had more touring to do later that year. We went out with periphery and the contortionist. Wait, I can't, I can't leave it on that. Right. So, see, I had the opposite problem where actually he was probably the best person in the band. Yeah. Is it maybe that your levels are far too high and my levels are far too low? No. I like stuff rough around. the edges and I give I give a lot of leeway with things. I'm the guy in this realm that values a human performance over a perfect performance. I think it's something that gets mixed up a lot of time in this circle is that like we're all supposed to be robots or everyone's like supposed to be at this like excellent level of no, it has nothing to do with that. I mean I never did fucking

entire massive long tours. So I don't know. Yeah. It just it just wasn't. And then there were there were other aspects surrounding that entire thing. And it just was getting away from the thing that it was born to be. And it was, and as a result, the energy radiating from not just myself who, you know, who, who, who, you know, like I eat, sleep and breathe this thing. This thing is my identity. It was me by myself with a guitar making music in the very beginning. And then, you know, we did open things up to, because that's stressful, like being the head, the figure head of an entire like thing, you know, so I wanted a democratic traditional ban scenario, like an orthodox approach to where you can delegate and everyone's responsible for things, but it was never the case. I'm not going to get

into the specifics, but it just wasn't working. It wasn't functioning that way. So basically, end of 2014 comes around. We hang our guns up and I was having an existential crisis. I needed to figure out what to do. And I wasn't comfortable with that. And we, We being myself, my manager and Anup and Lucas and everybody, we talked about what needed to happen. And we decided that we would leave the door open to potentially have somebody maybe audition. But I gave the disclaimer that I will not die on that hill and that there will be music coming out regardless. So I will be writing a record. And this is an opportunity to rebrand and remark it as a trio and that we should make the most collaborative body of work yet.

And then it went radio silent on me and I couldn't get responses back. And there was just like no, no one wanted to like talk or give input or listen to stuff. This is probably the most candid sort of window into this that I've ever given anybody. But I figure, you know what? You're a no bullshit guy. You're really transparent with your listener base. So it's like we might as well just have a chat about it. So January 2015, I had heart surgery.

And that was for not anything that I did to myself. it wasn't like the party, you know, was like raging on and I hurt myself or something. I was born. For a minute, for a minute, my brain went, oh my God, that's me next. No, no, no. I was born with something that needed to get tidied up. So, yeah, it's called Wolf Parkinson White Syndrome, WPW. And it's basically like an extra bit of electrical matter in your heart that can confuse your ticker. So it's definitely brought on by the physiological changes. You get older because the heart is just benign muscle tissue. So things do change. in there as you grow and get older. And for some people, they have this and it'll never even

be a factor because it's sort of like sequestered in this little like flesh cubby that's like kind of tucked away and it'll never interrupt with the main vibe. But mine was starting to maybe come undone a little bit. And then, you know, there's like emotional things that can exacerbate that. And we were, we were on the cusp of a brand new cycle with a singer for the first time, $35,000 in debt independent to somebody who had just basically invested in the group because we had turned down every label in the game that had made offers on the group at the time. And I thought we were extremely undervalued and that I'd be crazy to give it away. So we went at it a different way and that is resting on my shoulders and then what's the music

even going to be received like? And honestly, we started playing shows in Europe on tour and protest the hero before recorded music was even released. I remember being at Vega in Denmark and pre-examination. orders were coming out. People weren't even, hadn't even heard it yet. We were just out there. People thought they were going to see some in-time music or see some, some early instrumental intervals. We walk and we have a singer. And what we would like, we were just taking people completely by surprise with it. So I was a little. Prob bands always do that. I was a little.

Prob bands are just like, hey, we're just doing this now and everyone's like, okay. I wanted to I'm a singer now. Look, I want to. No, you're right. But like, there's something cool about that. the same time though, I wanted to do a conventional rollout and really like make the space for him and for the whole thing. But there wasn't time and we were gifted the opportunity to go to Europe a protested hero. I mean, I was in the studio producing guitars for volition with them and Luke invited me to come to Europe and I was like, I mean, who would say no to that? So I've just figured out, sorry, to cut cut in, I've figured out why it happens with prog bands. Because prog bands bring bands that they like on tour, not business decisions. So what's how to do? So what's how?

happened there as protests have been like, we really want you on this tour. And then you're like, kind of don't have anything and we're in the middle of doing something. And they're like, I want to see your band. Come on the fucking tour. And you're like, I can't turn this down. Whereas some other genres of music. The timing wouldn't have been right for that. Yeah. Yeah, they'd be like, we don't take them. We take this band, their albums out, blah, blah, blah. I get it. Well, shout out to my. I just had to get that out because I figured it out. No, for sharing. You're spot on with that. And protest are 100% those guys. So, Um, yeah, man. I mean, that was basically what was going on at the time. And I was really stressed out. And then, um, my symptoms were not so good. So I had to wait for a year. I mean, thank, you know, my lucky stars that, you know, I'm from Canada. We have the, uh, healthcare system here that, you know, took care of it for the, the cost of a tank of gas, uh, between my house and the hospital. And it was an elective procedure that I waited a year for. And it's the kind of thing that would bankrupt a family. And it's the kind of thing that would bankrupt a family. And it's the kind of thing that would bankrupt a family. Um,

family in America. So it's, you know, it saved my life. Um, I'm all good. What was the symptoms? If you don't mind me asking. Um, oh, it's like 190 to 200 BPM like heart speed. Just out of the blue. Like just from a thought and just for like bending over to tie your shoes or like, just things would just set it off. So there was like a physiological thing, but then also an emotional thing because once your chemicals get moving, who so they gave me fuck. Dude, I played that for a show in Germany on on half a half a was a point five milligrams of ad event I was dude it was not that's not a fun time when you have to use fucking fine and gross motor skill control in front of a room full of a thousand people playing fucking yeah yeah dude not a time so um what offensive boil down to call your

music yeah you were playing like didlil yeah so basically like crazy time for me um I got it fixed up 2015 after that whole year of touring. I lived that entire year, by the way, knowing that I had surgery coming up and knowing that I'm living with this thing and stuff. And yeah, it was really, really challenging time. So I got that handled. And then the first thing I did was start composing a new record and I wasn't waiting around for anybody. So that's how the shape of color was written. And I decided that it was done. And maybe there's an opportunity for the guys to come in and weigh in at that point. But really, the compositions were finished. So it isn't the collaborative thing we discussed that it should be or could be. So we all talked about it and

the guys seemed like they were interested in continuing on and, you know, the material's there and we can figure out how to make the record, but the material exists and we're going to move forward. And about 48 hours after the initial discussion, the remaining two, Lucas and Inup, just decided that it wasn't for them anymore. So I, you know, so they took his, side, basically. No, because they voted him off the island. So they didn't, because there was a democratic decision to let Mikea. Now, I swear I remember on the Anup podcast, he said his biggest mental punch, whatever that is,

was getting kicked out. But you're saying he didn't get kicked out? Yeah, so it's a common misconception, apparently also also misconceived by people who were part and parcel to the events that unfolded. So like I was describing, you know, some radio silence had sort of occurred in 2015 while we were, you know, we had left the door open. for the potential of maybe somebody filling, you know, Mike's shoes from the perspective of vocalist in the band. And I had explicitly said it wasn't a hill that I was going to die on.

So I got started writing a record in the meantime. And just, you know, for just to give people perspective or anyone who, you know, was privy to these details at the time or, you know, needs a better frame of reference. Imagine this. Imagine that you've spent at the time, I don't know, five, six, maybe seven years, whatever it's been. You know, I think it would actually, realistically, be about five years at the time. You've spent all this time pouring every single waking moment of every day and all of your creativity into developing a musical project.

It starts off where it's created of your own volition. You're making music with your guitar. You're the composer. and it's all just born of your own ideas. You get to a place where you're finding people to work with, you're creating a traditional democratic band type entity. It's gaining traction. And you sort of roll the dice, pardon me,

you sort of roll the dice. So take a chance on, you know, doing something new, a la having a vocalist. it doesn't work out. And there is the opportunity to return to everything that you know prior. And time is of the essence. In that situation, I know I'm posing a lot of hypothetical here, but in that situation, would you just lay down and let it all go away because people aren't feeling excited about the music that you're making or for some reason don't want to talk or collaborate? I mean, the answer is, at least for a person like me, no, you don't just lay down and let it all go away.

So I made a record. And when the time came to have a conversation about the involvement of, you know, people who are supposed to still be creating music or part of the project, conversation comes around and it seems as if they're confused that the album even exists. And then they say, okay, well, yeah, it would make sense that, you know, you would have done that, but we're not that happy we didn't get to collaborate. And this is fair. Like I said, this is, you know, if intervals was to return to instrumental at the time, we had all agreed it should be the most collaborative version yet. This is legitimately what I had wanted. At the same time, the entire year was ticking away.

And, you know, there's a lot riding on my shoulders. My whole musical, everything is, you know, is at a turning point, essentially. So we had a discussion. And they had essentially said they understood the scenario at the time. And like I said, 48 hours after that initial discussion, they came back and said that they wanted to go, that they weren't happy with it. So it's contradictory to this notion of being kicked out or let go or something like that because it just simply isn't the case. I said music has been made.

It's not what we said it was going to be. let's figure out how we can all do this together. They said, okay, let's work on that for sure. And then two days later, basically, no, we just don't want that and we want to leave. So I was scared. And this is the part that I've never really got to share with anybody is that I pleaded with a noop to go. Lucas and I may have had our differences at times.

And, you know, I may not have fought so hard for that. but everything... Great to go or to stay? No, I wanted... I wanted a noop to stay, and if Lucas wanted to figure things out with me or we could come to some sort of amicable decision,

he could stay, but I'll be completely honest. I was okay if he wasn't okay with the situation and wanted to go. We had our differences, and that part wasn't as concerning. A nupe and I were the very first two people to play the music live together.

had been composing it, but like I said, Anup and I had met early on, and we had a connection. I mean, I'll be frank. I miss the guy. You know, we did everything together early on. And this is, this is the part where I pleaded with him not to go, and he decided that that wasn't going to be the case. And my father called him and pleaded with him not to go because of how important working with him was to me and everything. you know and I mean he had you know stayed and spent time in the house with my parents and shared meals and we had done everything together and there was a connection there we didn't want him to go why is he got kicked out there it doesn't make sense I'm not I'm not sure unless unless for some strange reason they're like actually I don't know I like I was baffled by it I listened to that

podcast and it just doesn't gel with the reality of the scenario I can't I wouldn't be sitting here telling you that my father and I were asking him to stay if he had been let go. I'm pretty executive with decisions. Again, I didn't want things to fall by the wayside, so I kept things moving. We'd also just cut an integral member at the time. I'm pretty executive. If I told guys to leave, I'd own it. I wouldn't be, I don't lie to people.

So stuff, stuff was moving. An album was written. Yeah. But presumably the live drums weren't tracked. No. So, and it is live drums on that album. It's always live drums on recordings, yes, but they always start by me programming and composing them.

So I'm trying to make sense of why he thought he was kicked out in my head. Like, I'm trying to, I'm thinking maybe he thought not being a part of that creative process was not worth it to him. But once you're in the studio, you know, with a real drummer. everything fucking changes. Everything changes. Program drums are like there. Please do this. Obviously there's different levels of,

I need every single kick drum, whereas Will Putney is, I need every single fucking kick drum. But I'll let you steal some Gojira stuff. And Josh Millerton is, I need everything to be exactly what I made. And then your flip side, you've got other guitarists that can't write drums

and they just put fucking stock shit in. and then I change it to be a fantastic album. So I'm like, I'm just, I'm confused. I'm confused as well. And it took me aback when I heard that part because it just, it just, so we, like I said to you, when Anup and I met, we hit it off because there was like a mutual appreciation for like

how I was writing and programming drums. He was excited to play the parts. Ever since he started covering the material and then once we initially had started writing with each other, there was ultimate leeway with him. Yes, I'm composing program drums and everything like that, but he comes in and he injects his personality into it, just as Travis did when he recorded the record subsequently

and just as Nathan's been doing ever since. That's always been the format. I really think it just boils down to us having a discussion about if we go back to Instrumental that it needs to be as collaborative as possible. and that was something I was vouching for. I'll be completely frank. At the time we were talking about branding as just a trio and then we'd just figure out live bass when we tour,

but it would be two guitars and drums. It's like what Animals does. We were talking about branding as a trio. And then when it looked like that, Lucas just didn't want to have a part of this, you know, whatever this record was and everything that was about to happen going forward, which I'll admit I was okay with.

I was not only pleading with an up to stay, I was pitching to him that we should brand as a duo. Money. Think of the money. I mean, it really isn't even about that. I mean, fuck, we'd still have to tour with other members and it would still resemble a traditional band. But this, I mean, look, that was a real conversation that we had. I don't know where the kicked out part came from, like a mental punch was. maybe that the record existed, but the guys are...

It would change when he was... Yes. Yes. And it has more to do with if Lucas had weighed in on the musical content and there was more collaboration from that aspect that maybe things would have been different. But once the entire architecture has laid out for an entire body of work,

at that point, that's not when you dismantle it. You build those ideas collaboratively together along the way. you don't dismantle it later when it's finished. I've wrestled with these arrangements. They're all complete songs in my eyes. And that's why we had to have that discussion where it was like, hey, here's like, it's April or May of that year and we're having a check-in with management for everyone to say, hey, what's going on? And I was like, the album is technically finished. We should talk about how we're going to record it and do everything going forward. And we hashed out those details. We drew lines in the sand and said, okay, this is what it's going to be. And they were like,

okay, that's totally fine. And then 48 hours later, they had convened privately and came back and said, in fact, we're not comfortable with that and we'd both like to leave. Do you reckon maybe it was, um, is this, is this all completely independent from the singer situation? It's off the back, of it. But do you reckon there was like a alliance between the three of them? Yes. And then, Yes. And then maybe, I don't know, maybe he thought he had to leave, but that's not getting kicked out. It's not getting kicked out. And again, like I said, democratically, we all voted that it wasn't working with Mike.

And that's the best thing. That motherfucker did exactly that thing to me from the fucking other band. Other band. Yeah, exactly the same situation. Yes. I was like, you can't, this isn't right. And then he went, yeah, I know it's not right, but I'm here. Yep.

I thought, okay. Please leave my parents, please leave my parents home immediately. That part was crazy to me. I heard that part. I went, whoa, too real, too real. But, I mean, look, my dad now denies that happened. Right? Because it's been publicized.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Denies that. Let's not talk about it too much. I don't give a fuck. No one gives a fuck. In fact, statistically, more people probably give a fuck about what my fucking dog had for dinner than anything to do with that. And it was pedigree fucking charm. Unbelievable. Well, I mean, if we want to talk about fathers on record, my dad is on record and would grab this microphone and tell you how much he misses a noop and how much he, and I told my dad, please do not call him, do not take this any further. And I found,

my dad in the backyard on his cell phone pleading with Anup not to leave and telling him that he's making a mistake. That is not what happens when somebody is kicked out of a band, point blank. I just, I have to, you know, I was tepid about maybe having this, you know, talking about this, but it is, it feels like since it's so far away from the incident and things have been, you know, I mean, there's an entire world, there's universes of music and collapse around the planet, have happened for intervals since. So I'm not dwelling on it and hopefully they aren't anymore either. We've all gone and done the things that we are meant to do and supposed to do. And I truly believe that. But when it comes back up and we discuss it, we being my father and I and people who were privy at the time, close friends and people I know here in the city that we're, you know, are part of the interval's family.

And, you know, do I actively discuss this stuff with them all the time. We miss anoop and everything from that time period. they would tell you how much it all meant to me, how much I wanted him to stay, how much it meant to my dad, how much we didn't want things to change on that front. Because it was he and I from the beginning. He helped me fully realize the music. Yes, I composed it and it's my baby and everything, but we would have never have done those early shows or got going. And I owe so much to him and I fucking miss him. And that's it. So to hear that was like, it makes no sense to me. You know, and people are going to, their heads are going to spin on that one because it really doesn't. It's a, it isn't. We're contradicting each other, but I can't be more sincere with not only you on your platform, which I respect, but with every, you know, in, in the ears and the eyes of everybody who consume this. I would not point blank lie to you. I would not. So I decided I want to make this thing and I want to make it soon, especially considering that all unfolded and I'm left back at the very beginning.

again where it's just me making the music. I decided that I needed a drummer who could learn the parts accurately and quickly and deliver the drum performance so I could handle the rest of the instrumentation and we can make a record. So I hired Travis Orban. Travis drove to Canada and we recorded them about an hour outside of the city. I made that record and released it wholeheartedly thinking that this was going to be the last thing I ever do for intervals because polarizing shift in the material, I put the seven strings in the drum. I made an album in standard tuning. It was extremely upbeat, very vibrant, very colorful, very melodic, very bubbly by comparison, not a gent record, not a metal record at all.

The intervals of today. Yeah. So, well, the intervals of today with the record that I'm about to put out is probably the most balanced and starting to head back in the direction. I really am scratching that itch again for drop tunings, lower tunings like seven string and stuff like that and more aggression, more of the metal vibes and stuff. I am bringing it back slowly but surely. But, you know, I don't ever do anything like, you know, like an about face, like 180 on a dime kind of thing anymore. I try to like, I try to do like a V shape with it, right?

I try to gradually go in and out because I think that's going to make the most sense. Yeah. So anyhow, so basically what happens is I put that record out thinking it's going to tank. And it was the best thing we had ever done. and it had completely outdone a voice within and it ended everything prior and it was very clear that the core fan base and new fans were wholeheartedly embracing

what this thing was always meant to be. I've got a question. Go ahead. Just while we're on that album. So you programmed the drums and then Travis Orban played them. Is he played 90% what you wrote? Yes, with his flage.

and basically what we had done was we had exchanged MIDI and then he would send me back MIDI because you know he reads everything off a sheet and he reads his own he spits out transcriptions he's literally guitar pro you just stick the tab in front of him and then it happens my my only reason for asking that and my only reason for saying the whole hitler guitarist thing um obviously disclaimer I'm not actually comparing guitarists to hitler um it's a turn of phrase now deal with it Um, so my, my thing is that sometimes guitar, I'm going to say, what's the appropriate word that isn't bedroom guitarist? Because if I want to say like a blanket term on you, Misha, Tocin, the guys that make the music in the bedroom initially without sounding offensive. What can I call, what can I call you?

What's that? Okay, guitarist producer. sir, there we go, there we go. I've got the bedroom away from it. So guitar, the thing that I... Because it could happen in a dungeon. It doesn't need to be just a bedroom, you know? It's just in my head, it's like, that is funny.

And I don't want, I don't want to make it offensive. No, for sure. My thing is like sometimes, especially the smaller ones, like not those three that I mentioned, will want to seem like you big boys. be like, I wrote everything. But really, they're like drum parts sucked. And someone fixed them.

But then they still, like, go around going like, you know, I wrote everything. So I'm always interested to know because certainly with like, I would say with Misha, that guy can fucking write drum parts. And my favorite animals as leaders album, despite the fact I love Matt Gasker, I like the guy's a fucking hero.

I love his playing. That first animal's record will never be touched. There's some charm with those. You know, it is a love-hate thing with program drums, and I've never released a final intervals recording that has my program drums on it, but I could wholeheartedly tell you right now,

I could go in and print them, and apart from a little bit of human nuance and I've tweaked Phil here and there, you're getting the same thing. You're getting high hat velocities. You're getting ghost notes. You're getting left foot chick. You're getting actual symbol accents that function properly in the place. You know, you're not getting three crash symbols on the downbeat. You're getting the real, dude, I'm completely. Yeah, no, it's not that. I'm obsessed with drummers. I watch drummers more than I watch guitar players on YouTube. Side stage. I spent, I did 75 to 80 shows in 2016 with Animals as Leaders. I am just glued to the drum king. it. Like, you know. I want them to re-record that album, but with Matt playing the drums, I would fucking screen and they'd make so much money. Yeah, at some point, it's probably worth it. And hopefully they, hopefully they do. But I'm excited for new stuff from boys, too, because it's going to be

insane. You know it's going to be insane. But, um, oh, I love all of it, but there's definitely just, I don't know. Maybe it's just the fucking time in my life that I was listening to that. It's a nostalgic release for me too. And it was right around the time I was discovering all that music. And it was like, wow, this is, there is something charming about there. And look, there's some like inhuman, like overly hyped scenarios happening on that kit performance. But there is a charm about it when you, it's, again, it's the like, don't leave me to guess if you're natty or not kind of thing. It's like, you know, it's like, it's a good. I was going to say that when we were talking about that. I was like, program drums. Program drums is the fucking is the juice. Yeah, it is. Of the prog world. Just be, honestly, say your on pads and it's good. to say your own pet. Honestly, like Tesserac. Tesseract are juicing. And they tell everyone it's fine. Tesseract are juicing and they don't overuse it. They've just got real nice rounded delts. Yeah. Like, they can probably still conceive. Like it's fine. Absolutely. Yep. For sure. That is the best. If any of these fucking seven string or any of those news websites, that's what I want of the headline. I want Tesseract are juicing. That's it.

Jay Pascot's nice delts, decent fertility. Yeah, round delts, V-taper. Guys fucking killing it. But that's what I was going to mention was the juicing thing. Fuck, yeah. Completely fucking. Oh, so I'll get onto your new album in a minute. Mm-hmm.

The whole way through, I was thinking, is it programmed? Isn't it programmed? There's no samples on the record, dude. That's Nathan's... Because I was just wondering, like, is it just really well? program because I didn't I didn't know that the guy had actually paid it and it was well performed I think until until the fucking 80s song the best song in my opinion dose is it dose yeah I was like that's a fucking real drummer and I was like and then it just

went and then I went and followed your drummer immediately fuck yes dude oh my god that's a real drama Nathan's a huge fan man he'd love to come on dude he he's a huge fan of you I mean we know you because of Andrew for sure like Like, that would be when I became, from structures. That's when I, that's when I would have become aware of you because just like your internet persona proceeds the drumming sometimes. And then it's like, oh, and he's a fucking sick-ass drummer. But no, I-

I'm definitely better at the internet than I am at drums. That's not true. I'm fine with that now. I geeked out and I texted Nathan just before we got on. I was like, I'm about to do the downbeat, dude. He's like, oh, shit. Tell him to holler at me. I was like, fucking right, man.

Do you know what? I love that you want it to come on this because I wouldn't typically ask you. Dude, I've been binging. I was surprised. I was surprised when you mess me. I was like, fuck yeah,

you can come on. Yeah, yeah, I've been binging it. You're fucking hilarious and you got some really good guests. But I'm in podcast mode right now because fucking all of my touring

just got deleted. So I would be leaving in like two weeks for like a six-week North American run that we're supposed to do Europe. UK, other things, return to Southeast Asia. I mean, just before this all wrapped, we were in fucking India for four shows. And then we did six weeks with between the Barry to Me and Chaun. And then I got home for Christmas, went back to California for Nam. And then literally I haven't seen any of my touring family, any of my crew, like any of just like people from the industry.

It's just been like my girlfriend, my parents, couple friends here and there when we're fucking allowed. You know, it's like, been such a fucking crazy year. But just to kind of patch in the last little bit because I mean we did pretty much get through most of the lineage. Shape of color comes out. I didn't think it was going to work out. End up being a smash for us like on streaming platforms and just overall activity. Booking agent comes through and says you should do a headliner in North America. Let's do like 500 caps. You get carte blanche of whoever you want to be on the tour. I was at that point other than the odd little thing never headlined in North America. I was like, wow, that's fucking crazy. Pre-requisite is I don't want to sleep on the bench.

in a van anymore. He's like, cool, we'll definitely get enough for a bus. I was like, fucking let's go, dude. So we did a bandwagon, and I invited plenty to come support, and that was the first time that he had ever played in North America. He had barely played live music other than a couple of engagements prior to that. And then we got this idea that let's cut budget and costs and everything for the both of us, and let's share crew members and let's play with each other. The three-piece, so we're a four-piece, and we get away with some shit, fuck me, the dream. So we did it as a four piece.

So we would have the same rhythm section and then we would play rhythm guitar for each other. And then the other guy would just take center stage and play lead. So on the animals as leaders run, so when it was plentervals and then animals as leaders, we were doing, we were doing 18 songs at night, dude, because we would do a plenty set and then we do a full interval set. And all that had to change was just whoever's tuner was in the middle of the center stage. And then like we would just... Wait, so the same band.

played both things. Yeah, and there's two different iterations. Like, we would do it where Nathan was on. Troy was playing, Troy Wright was playing drums for plenty at the time. And Nathan was also out with me. But then there was a tour where Nathan's other band was on tour, protest the hero. And we had to do the animals as leaders run.

So Troy just played for both of us. So we were the same band twice. I remember that happening. Yeah. Yeah. So the best thing about that is nobody figured it out the entire cycle, that we're the same band twice. So we get double the rider on everything.

We would literally get two bottles of Jameson, two everything. Double money. Practice. Like, the amount, how your fucking chops must have been so sick. It was an insane year, dude. We were playing longer than Animals was every night. We were literally playing like 18 songs a night. Did you do anything in between?

Like, did you come off stage? Come off stage, the crew. The crew would change over. We would come off stage, bang a shot of fucking Jameson, or vitamin J, as we would call it at the time. And then we would fucking throw a towel over our heads, do a fucking powwow and get back out and go and just do my set. Change the loudtop over and do my set. That's fucking so cool.

I'm so into just fucking easiness and also making more money. It was a good. The combination of the two things. It was a good year, dude. We did it in Europe. We did it in North America. And then we did it in Australia. Yeah.

Super safe. Best Place on Earth. And Polaris opened those shows, which is fucking hilarious. Polaris intervals plenty in Australia. And look at them now. Like, that was fucking crazy. That was 2016. Yeah, that is fucking insane.

And now they are massive. I'm supposed to have Dan on the podcast and he's in my DMs all the time. And then I just forget. He's a legend. You should. You should. Love those boys. I can't remember.

I didn't have beef with them. I can't, I think when they were just coming up, I think I might have said something online. Rare. Someone was like, oh, you should check this band out. And I put one song on and I replied. And I was like, I already listened to Architects. And I think it got back to someone.

And then, it was my bad. I was just in a bad mood. People were recommending bands. And then I listened to it properly. I was like, okay, this band is fucking sad. No, it's not. That's not. People need to.

I don't know. I mean, come on. That's not, that wasn't that offensive. It's, it's kind of funny, actually, but like,

look at them now, you know? Yeah. And at the same time, even if it was true, like, every band ever is influenced by another band.

It's just, it's weird for me when bands sound like architects because they're just friends. So I think, like, oh, you're just ripping on architects.

Like, one of the biggest heavy bands in the UK, probably the biggest heavy bands in the UK now. Of course, they're influencing people. As I get older, I'm getting better

at being, Understanding that. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, this is the thing. That's a hot topic in the Prague and, like, instrumental world is like, there's so many knee-jerk reactions about what your influences must be.

And the most frustrating thing is when you see somebody, like, inferring that your, your influence is something that, like, is like the latest Prague release that came out last Tuesday. And it's like, oh, I'm hearing this influence. It's like, That person is influenced by so many other things that came before them, and we're all influenced by the same things. So if you were to dig backwards, you realize that the very thing your citing has existed in music for 15 to 20 years, and they weren't the first people to do it either. They were influenced by somebody who discovered that, and then they just did it their

way. And it has nothing to do with whatever you just heard last Tuesday, and you think that that's what I'm listening to. Because really, because my record was being written last Tuesday. Meanwhile, it's been uploaded to streaming platforms for two to three months. It's like, you seriously think that that's where I got it? It doesn't make sense. You are so hot on this, which means something seriously happened. But they could just save that time. Happens all the time.

The answer is actually cynic. So, yeah, the answer is fucking. The answer is cynic. Let's go back. Cynic or fucking Pat Maffini or fucking Steve Vi or Joe Satriani or like all the greats that came before us. When did this happen recently? Because you are fucking hot.

something. Not recently. It was shape of color era and it was when the first track dropped. And there's like drop to dyad voicings in one of the riffs where it's like, you know, I'm playing rootin seventh rather than power chords. And it's this like really sparse voicing. And like at the time, Chan was hot and well, still are of course. But everyone's just like, oh, it's got that Chon vibe.

And I'm like, ask Mario where he got that. Ask anybody who does that where they got that. Do you seriously think that that that's, That's where I found that. And it's just like that, it just gets me hot because listeners of the style. Wait, which was the part? What was the part? It's in, I'm awake.

It's like a, it's like a couple of, there's, I'm playing around with that motif the entire song. Well, when it gets to the bridge, I'm slamming these particular voicings that are like, not your average power cord. They're not the type of thing that you normally hear a rhythm guitar do. Oh, the fucking boingy-shy shit. That's what I would call it. It's a little bit, little bit on the twangy side.

and it's like the way I'm voicing. That's just drummer brain. Oh, you know, the boingy. The boingy thing. The boingy thing. I love that. So, yeah, it got me hot at the time because listeners of the genre

pride themselves on being cerebral and understanding where all these things come from. But when you dig a little bit deeper, you actually find out that a lot of the people who consume this music. And not to take a dig, you don't have to be a museo to get into it. Oh, yeah.

Craig loves it. You know what I call those people? I call those fucking people that listen to prog music all the time but don't really know what they're talking about and they leave comments all the time, fart sniffers. I imagine them, right, to sit, sit at home with fucking 7string.org booted up or whatever, and they're just sat together and they got a fucking mic plugged into their fucking axe effects,

and then they go, and then they sniff it, one of them sniff it. Yeah, it needs more high-end. It's got some grunt. And the other guy's like, I actually prefer mine. And then he has a fucking whiff of it. Try this. Try this fucking. What's the name of the thing with the fucking... Check the impulse on that. I knew you were going to say that. I didn't want to give it to you though. I needed to let you find that one yourself. Did you watch me? Watch me thinking,

what's the thing with the cabs? The fucking thing. Impulse. So look, here's the thing. I love, I love that we're going there with this because I often, like, you know, people want to ask me questions a lot of the time where they seriously, like, they treat... what I do or like have this idea about me that I'm just I'm just into Prague music I'm just into this one thing like I must be upset. Trust me, I love gear. I'm into all that stuff. I can sit and get nerdy and talk till I'm blue in the face about all that stuff. But all of my influences. I can sniff farts is the line now. If I, guys, I can sniff farts. If I have to, I will. But the thing is, is I'm so into things that are so far removed from this whole world.

And it's where I take my influence from. And it's what I channel into the music that winds up, you know, allowing me to feel like I am carving my own path and that I'm not just repeating, regurgitating dream feeder or O-Path or like the things that, you know, everybody in this world are sort of known for doing. and trust me, those are massive influences and there's a lot to learn there. That's totally fine. But I'll be completely honest, Prague music is the last thing I'm thinking about when I'm composing.

I'm channeling all of my favorite music from probably early to mid-2000s. A lot of it, I'm going to say 90% of it has a vocalist. And none of that has anything to do with, like, I'm not just excited about music because it's instrumental or this or that. I have a really, really weird taste

in music. I grew up going to the Warp Tour. I'm super into like the heyday Warp Tour bands and the scene and everything and that's where I come from. I was going to mention that when we get onto the album and we might as well get onto the fucking album. Sure, let's go there. Yeah. For sure. Because there's like some pop punk drum beats and some some sections where I'm like, this could have a pop punk singer on it. Some fucking sexy guy. Yep. And this could be on the radio. Yep. And I was thinking, I wonder if these, you know, there's a fucking. fucking punk thing going. There's no, I don't, I can't think of another band in your quote unquote genre of instrumental prog metal, which has the fucking punk beat. Exactly. And that's exactly

what it is, is I'm pulling from the places, the music that I'm excited about. And when people are like, and it's so funny, they want to talk about all the other stuff. They're so blinded by, ooh, you must be into jazz. You must be listening to this. It's like, listen to the structure of the song and the vibe and the attitude and emotion. Why am I not getting like, are you into these bands? Are you into this kind of thing? Nobody in, because they're, because they're not able to listen or hear,

because it has nothing to do with it. That's why I'm the best fucking podcaster on the fucking planet. And fuck all these other shitty little fucking podcast. No, you're spot on. You're absolutely spot on because that's where I'm, and it's not even that I'm like listening to that music and be like, I want to put D beats in my shit. It's more so about like,

that's what I naturally, do because my formative musical years came from all of that. Yeah. So we were talking about pop punk and weird influences that have nothing to do with Prague and this kind of music. And yeah, so I mean, we're probably into a lot of the same stuff. I think like a lot of the time when I do these types of things or I talk to people that are a little bit removed from this world, they tiptoe around how to like approach some of these things because they feel. think, you know, oh, he makes this kind of music, so you must only be any of these kind of things. But as you were saying, when you listen to the record, you were picking up on some stuff

that isn't your sort of bog standard for the genre. And I also made, deliberately made the record with Sam, who did the latest Silverstein album. And this was, the whole idea was to take a step away from the same paths and channels that a lot of us fall into in this little microcosm. and I'm trying to embrace my influences and the things that naturally sort of occur in my music and I want to be able to like put some shine on that and you know, do that justice. Because there isn't no other instrumental music

that's sort of approaching the overall vibe, like setting the stage for, you know, for the lead guitar to be playing over tops of like the kind of compositions you were describing where you could hear like a pop punk, top line or something like that. Yeah, for sure. And there's like, is there fucking pan pipes at one point or some sort of pipe instrument happening? There's like, I swear there's an intro, which sounds, there's a bunch of stuff, man. It sounds like a 90s hand zima soundtrack. Talk about in the,

finale, yeah, and earthing. Um, yeah, it's a string. It's a, it's a analog synth string composition that I, I had created. And then, uh, a buddy mine, uh, Malen, who also, scored the latest protested hero album. He did all of the heavy lifting when it came to the more of an expansive sound design stuff. And we, you know, created a, that's, that was sort of the vibe I was after. And to be honest, it is a very Hans Zimmer chord progression. It's a, it's a reimagined, re-approached sort of like reharmonized motif from a melody, from the previous record that I've, I've taken a motif from the last record and that I've sort of flipped it. perspective, that song is called the waterfront and the song is called earthing because it's

like the return from the waterfront but with like a change in perspective. It's like a rehab. Yeah, absolutely. There are recurrent themes throughout the record actually. Song one and song seven, you mentioned dose. So 5HTP is the precursor to serotonin in the body and there is a fragment of the main melody from dose that becomes fully expanded in dose, which is dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins. So you get the like neurotransmitter precursor with like a fragment of it in the intro and then I give you the full blown suite of euphoric brain chemicals in song seven. Then they're connected. See now you're getting this fucking mad professor bullshit which I love. And bullshit in affectionate way. I mean, I've got so many things to say about this whole thing.

Sick. With synchronicity. I started taking fire. HTP two days ago. Wow. To try and fix my fucking brain. Yeah. And so I originally I was like, because obviously I saw that was the single,

but the word didn't, it was just, it was just numbers and letters to me until the other day when I, someone was like, you should take this natural fucking supplement that helps with your fucking brain and sleep and shit. And I was like, wait a minute.

That's the same. Yeah, it's a strange synchronity. Yeah, for sure it is. For the record, I feel pretty fucking good. Good. Nice. And then so the motif thing, you ever listen to that band, Cult of Luna? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Man, they do that, like, what you just said, like, they'll take a motif from fucking two albums ago.

Yes. And then bring it back at the last track of the newest album. Huge. Every time I shit my fucking pants. It's huge, man. I, you know what? I found that it was happening naturally, and I used to really, like, almost... I don't know. I felt like before I understood what's possible via that approach, like as a,

you know, motifs and themes as a device, I was like afraid of, you know, repetition or afraid of like these. But then I realize, you know what? It's happening for a reason. These things are bubbling to the surface naturally because that's your musical identity. And you're hearing something. Now, I'll tell you, it happens a lot more often than I actually end up committing. to them. It's about curating and deciding when to do it. So it was the first song I composed for the record and it was actually the working title was the Waterfront Part 2. But because it's a re-harm and it's not verbatim the same thing, I decided to give it a bit of a different spin. And with the commentary, like the song titles and everything I'm talking about on the record, I wanted to sort of culminate

the entire album with earthing, which is like, you know, like putting your feet like, bear on the ground and just feeling connected, which is like ultimately, you know, me sort of rounding out the concept of circadian. The record is called circadian, if people don't know that. So that's basically what I'm insinuating and because it's like the other side,

heads and tails from like the waterfront and earthing. It's like, you know, it's just that like return to the shore kind of thing. But it's like the same motif with a different light sort of shining on it, basically. So, and I love that. The first time I ever heard a recurring motif or a theme, was very obscure record here

and it's one of my faves of all time. Say hello to Sunshine by Finch and it's extremely progressive record. Talk about a curveball for their fan base. They went from what it is to burn to like we took acid and we bought Jazz Masters. So here's this fucking thing.

Also, what is to burn some banners? Dude, Project Mayhem. Are you kidding? Fucking heavy. I love early Finch and I love Weird Finch. But look, say hello to Sunshine.

shine, come on. That's, that's one of the greatest, it's one of the greatest Prague records that isn't, uh, so it was never adopted by the, oh, it's way ahead of its time. I'm still constantly drawing inspiration from it. Um, we did a show at Summit Music Hall in Denver. Uh, we did a tour in 2018. It was an evening with the contortionist and the only support was intervals. So we played an hour and change every night. And then the contortionist did two sets. Only two bands on a tour, buddy. It's a fucking dream. Let me tell you. You are doing all the shit that I love. Oh, I got three members. Oh, there's only two bands. Fucking dream. Dude, it was so sick. Two buses on one tour. We literally set up sound check and were preset to walk on stage and play an hour every night.

And then the contortionists did like their reimagined set as their second set with like fucking cahones and acoustics and fucking love that album. Yeah, dude, super sick. So basically we're loading out or just like getting off the stage at Summit Music Hall in Denver and tear down music is on. And I think it was like bite marks and bloodstains or something. And I was like, yo, who I'm like, who is responsible for this right now in the playlist? And Robbie puts his hand up and I was just like, I mean, we were already best friends, but dude. And he was like, oh, you know about this record? I was like, man, not a lot of people in our world know about this record. That's a fucking, that's a little secret up the old sleeve that one because there's so much gold on that record. And then I believe it's

ink and fireflies that share this tiny little riff fragment. And I was like, the first time I ever heard a reoccurring repeated like verbatim riff from one song into another. And they actually only used just a piece of it, but it's very obvious that they borrowed that. And I was like, okay, the fucking gloves are off now. It's weird that it doesn't happen that often. Like in classical music, it happens all the fucking time. Yes. Concept of a motif. That's, yeah, it's why it's got the crazy word. That's why it's not just called bits back. Yeah. The bits back. Exactly. The bits back? No, for sure.

Let's put one of those, let's put one of those The Bits back in it. Oh, fuck yeah. On the last track, we'll do the Bits back. I'm actually going to just, in my brain, it's now called The Bits Back, in quotations.

I'm recurring the bits back. Dude, that's so sick. That's the fucking degree. Fuck, yeah, dude. So, yeah. So I, you know, I'm pulling influences from a lot of weird, weird places, man.

I'm telling you, like, I'm a, I'm a My Chemical Romance follow boy Panic at the Disco, newfound glory story of the year fucking fiend. I knew it. I can hear it in the drums. Yeah, man. In the happiness.

One of the guys from fucking My Chemical Romance followed me on Twitter the other day, just out of the blue. He only follows like six. Frankie Aero? Was it Frankie? Yeah. He like, and I was like,

why the fuck are you following me? And then I followed him back. And then, but I was like, how does he know? Is he listened to the podcast? One of my tour manager, Stosh Robel, who works for periphery and a bunch of other people in this realm that you probably would have met Stosh maybe once. He does merch sometimes for periphery in Europe, actually, so you would have met Stosh.

He's like a stocky Polish shoe with a beard and tattoos. They're all like that. That sounds really bad. It's every, it's every. Oh, Polish people, they're all like that. Jesus Christ. Oh, I thought you're just talking about crew people. I take that back.

Yeah, I mean, I was talking about crew people. Yeah, you're just talking about crew people, but you said Polish. So it made it sound like I was talking about Polish people. Watch that get ripped out of context. Oh, my goodness. So yeah, um, good. Stosh has worked for Frankie before and Frankie's probably pretty plugged in with what's going on and stuff. Um, sick.

But yeah, yeah, fuck yeah. And dude, I love all that stuff. So also like, ranted, bad religion, Pennywise, no effects, like no use for a name, Languigan. Fucking shit. Yeah, dude. My number one, though, from that whole world is strung out all day. So ahead of their time, too clever for their time. So back in the day, everyone loved them and now no one cares.

But it was like, you should have just come out now. So does my shit make... It'd be the biggest band in the fucking world. Does my shit make more sense to you now? Knowing that? Or is it still weird? No, it's not weird. It makes more sense why I like it more than the other bands.

because the other ones who are good, the jingle jangle bands with the jingle jangle bands with the boingy notes, I'm like, I'm like, this is, this is fine,

but I will never put it on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. I will, I need to change one airport because I'm running out of battery. It's okay.

Can you still hear me? Yeah, yeah, I got you. So, the yeah they never hold my interest enough when it's like boom

but that I'm gonna boom to boom to ba and I'm like there's just get it

it's good but there's something missing which I guess maybe is just the punk thing that is somewhere I can't put my finger

on what it is but it is in intervals that's very interesting cool yeah I mean just, I don't know. I like that energy. I like that vibe, that emotion. I like that aggression.

We go nuts on stage. We don't stand still. We're probably one of the most active live bands in our little world because I hate a stand and deliver performance. Like, if that's what I want from you or like from that band and it's a seated vibe and like I'm here just to watch you just perform a fucking clinic, I'm down. Trust me, that has a place. I'm super into that vibe. But we tour with high energy bands where sometimes we're, you know, the most colorful thing on the bill or, you know, a lot of the times we do stand out. Like, dude, we did, oh, I'd like to give you so many examples of festivals where we were the fucking weirdest thing. But like, probably the one that comes to mind like as of late was we did so what, um, on our co-headliner with Vail Maya. And it was

fucking, uh, vain intervals, Vail of Maya, after. after the burial. So it was like... There's a lot of people going nuts on stage between... We went... Oh, dude. And we went fucking hard at that show because, you know, you have to,

especially when you're... We're following vain? I was like, okay, this is a weird one. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, you need to fucking cut your own heads off or something. That's not... Yes, that's the production for the next when touring comes back.

Just clean off. But one of the weirdest ones we've ever done, for sure, it was one of the Plinterval's sets and it was for Plenny's show at Brutal Ass. We were billed, we being intervals, were billed to play with Tesseract and lepris later in a place where... I love lepros. Oh, so sick.

But we did plenny's earlier in the day after, like, I don't even know, but we aborted was on next. And there was like a fucking, literally like a wall of like pirouetting, like, you know, illegible tree branch t-shirts just like balletting, just like balleting softly into each other in the mud. I also love a boy at as well though. Yeah, fuck, yeah. But like it was such a weird billing for him and we're playing soft, delicate, like Pliny's approach is definitely a lot different than mine. Like, there's crossover and because we're friends and we've toured together a lot and stuff. And we do have that kind of like plinterval's sort of branding that we do from time to time, whenever we link up and everything. His approach is different. He's definitely on the more

proggy, jazzy, more sort of ethereal vibe where I'm just like going for like I have those elements but I'm gunning for raw emotional just like aggression and energy you know who's the one who's the one that's just full of sexy boys the one where just all the boys are sexy it's like one of the fucking one of the guitar bands you probably talk about polypia yeah that's the one yeah just a bunch of sexy kids that sounds so fucking wrong I know they're all of age I listen to your podcast worst thing I've ever said. I'm going to go out.

50 fucking episodes. 50 fucking episodes. What I meant by that was the collective term for people who come to shows and make music. I would say that me and you, I would say that we're fucking punk kids. Yeah. Because we grew up in the fucking, yeah.

So what I mean by Polyphia being sexy is that they're all good looking of age men. Yeah, yeah. And I thought that's who you were describing when you were talking about, when you were talking about boingy, they're men, they're all men, yes. When you were talking about boingy music, I thought you were describing them because they definitely have that like jangly. And even your little karaoke ad lib, uh, a cappella scenarios

was sounding like, uh, something that might be in that world. We've done a lot, done a lot of stuff. I've been on two of their records and on top of that, uh, they supported me in Australia. And they supported me in Europe, actually on the way forward headliner in 2017. Yeah. So, yeah. Those are the homies, though, for sure. I mean, we've done, we've... And they're definitely fully grown adults, right? Yes. Thank fuck for that. Dude, Clay Ashleman's a fucking beast of a drummer, dude. He's... Oh, that guy, the guy that looks like the fucking guy that tried to murder his wife.

It looks like Jesus. Oh, my God. Why, he does kind of look like Tim Limbizus, so wow. Fucking, let's get all of this shit in there. The guy that looks like fucking and wife murderer. Wait, this episode is nuts. It's, you know what? Here's the funny thing. I've listened to enough of your podcasts to where I was like, I wonder if the conversation winds up being safe or I know that I can go filter off for sure. So I was like, I think it's going to be nuts and confirmed there's definitely been some

unreal quotes. It's because like COVID is like, I don't know. I'm just like, I'm here. I know I'm not a piece of shit. I know like there's, I know where I stand on things like, fucking trying to murder. your wife, I'm not going to be fucking, if I've got a funny joke about it, I'm making it because

I'm not going to be, oh, I better not talk about the guy who tried to murder his wife in case I hurt his feelings. Fuck you. We're going to swiftly evade. Although I actually am publicly on record sharing my mind about that at the time, and that would be where I'm

going to leave it. So it probably is somewhere and people could see how I felt about it at the time. However, my perspective was twisted in terms of, I wrote a nuanced idea about my perspective on individuals in the music community that were supporting. And it wasn't to do with redemption or... I need to know. You're skating around it. I need to know. Well, the single came out, and then there was a lot of people that were on record saying that they would never support

or condone anything to do with that scenario based on his actions. And then the same people were just like, oh, man, fucking riff slapped, though, like really happy to see this back. And I was just like, yeah, you're, that's just simply not going to be anything that I find credible, considering how outspoken you were about those types of things. But, ooh, shiny riffs. It's like, no, that's just not going to be a vibe. So I was taking issue with that. And that's a nuanced concept. And a lot of people have a hard time keeping more than one idea in their brain when they think about these things. So it was misconstrued as, well, you don't think people get a second chance in this life? You don't believe in redemption? I was like, no, no, we're done. We're done.

we're done with this conversation because that's simply not what I was going for. And I do believe in second chances. And I practice, I mean, I'm a mindful individual who believes in gratitude and overcoming these types of things. And everybody, you know, gets a second chance and stuff like that. And I'm a very, uh, I am, you know, I'm not a religious, but I'm a spiritual individual. And I am extremely forgiving and empathetic towards all, everybody in any situation and all walks of life, but what I will not stand for is clickbait fucking, uh, post Twitter rants and scenarios about how you never, um, support, uh, anyone to do with that camp or ham if he ever got out and this and that. And then when the video dropped, everyone, those same people were

like fucking riffs, slammed so happy to see this band back. You know, it's just like, yeah, you just literally did an about face on that. So that's what I was taking issue with. And that's, And some of the metal zines and publications actually reposted my, it was a bit of a Facebook rant. And most people understood where I was after. Mike Lassard came out and spoke about that too. And funny enough, we have shared crew, we being the contortionist and intervals, we have shared crew that work for that camp. And because I have an inside perspective about that entire scenario through my videographer, Mike Damele, who travels with us and, you know, travels extensively with Azale dying, I know that he's done the work. and he's atoned and repented and all the things that he needs to do. And he's actually a wonderful

human being. And it was a mistake. And everybody makes those. And my rant was not anything to do with that. So people took it out of context. They didn't like that. I was taking issue with their two-faced bullshit, basically. You know what I mean? So it's complicated. I mean, I had a similar thing anytime I speak up about it. Oh, you do, do, do, do, do, second. chance there's dead dead net absolutely sure but maybe just not immediately back to selling out fucking arenas in germany yeah there's there should be uh same fucking people the same fucking people that if he'd fucking i really don't want to i didn't want to go in on this but we have if he'd have fucking left a mark on her there is no way that man would be back but for some

reason because it was completely fucking like it was just a conversation essentially yeah apparently I believe that people, you know, more forgiveness. Anyway, just so, no, look, and just so people don't get it twisted, like we're talking, again, it is a nuanced idea. We're talking about the perspective or the stance of individuals and their perspective on the perspective. It's not, it's not necessarily, like, that you and I are taking a stance on that particular thing. I'm actually really just skirting around it in general because it's, it's, it's, it's, complex and I'm not about to sit here and talk about, you know, things like redemption and second chances. I do believe in those. So for the record, that's the case. But it's just, there's a lot of,

like, people who just, they know, like, you know, when, when the latest tragedy comes out and it's clickbait videos and immediate content about that person, it's like, I understand, like, look, if you have a place to pay homage to it, I'm just really changing the tone on this, but if you have a place to pay homage to somebody like, AKA, like you are, can I understand, to the family or this is like cited as like a really big influence, somebody you've toured with, somebody that you know personally. By all means, make the tribute video, make the cover video, put it up in 2448 hours. But if you don't really have a place and you're just cashing in on bandwagon, clickbait garbage because somebody fucking died or whatever it is and you know that

your news feed is only that. So you have to get in on the fucking party so you can get some fucking likes, straight up, fuck you. Because I had people messaging me, I'll just be completely blunt. We lost a legend on my birthday, Eddie Van Halen. And I decided that I'm not going, like, not because it's my birth, I didn't even, it has nothing to do with my birthday. Can I be fucking sad about it? Why does everything have to exist through my phone?

What, did some, what, did someone message you to do? I got messages. I got messages and people are just like, what? Everybody in the community is sharing photos and, you know, and black, white, and red and this and that. And there's nothing from you. And I'm just like, I don't even want to have to explain to you that it's my birthday. And I'm, one, I'm just busy living my life with my girlfriend.

And she's got a wonderful evening plan for us. And I'm going out and I'm doing things that I'm not living through my phone. But on my way to pick her up so she could take me up for a nice birthday dinner in the midst of a fucking miserable-ass pandemic. I fucking Rick Biotto goes live and he's talking about the death of Edward Vinaylan and I'm fucking distraught over it. Can I, can I just fucking mourn? I thought you were, I thought you were going to mention that you got like people saying, you want to do a tribute track?

I got so many. I get so many anytime someone dies. Fuck, fuck that. Who are like, fuck that. Hey, we're going to cover this.

And then I'm like, initially sometimes I reply like, okay, where's the money going? Oh, it's just for awareness. It's like, okay,

it's just so you get some cliques. You can fucking monetize some shit because this will be bigger than anything you've ever done. me to do it so I share it. Yeah, exactly. No. No, no. Will not. Absolutely will not. Stay in your lane. Stay in your lane and just don't do anything that hurts anyone else and just be. That's my big thing. Like I stay out, but the minute someone starts saying anything about like a certain group of people, I'm like, okay, I'm stepping in there. You need to shut the fuck. No, for sure. And I can be, I can pipe up about stuff. No, absolutely. And I get really passionate about

certain things, but you have to really strike a nerve. Like, I'm on some, I'm on some different energy these days, you know, so, um, that Zen tip. I can do with some more Zen tip. I'm trying. I'm trying. Dude, just, uh, I don't know, man. I mean, there's a lot of ways to get at it. You know, I love like nutrition and biohacking and fitness and mindfulness and all these things. I mean, have you considered microdosing? I don't know if you're, if you're in, if you're into that stuff. I have had like, like, subs. So far too many negative trips to ever want to touch any hallucinogen ever again. Yeah, I've been there earlier in my life.

Absolutely. When you don't know what it is that you're getting yourself into, the dosage is wrong or the wrong circumstance. It just comes from the ground. No, no, no, no, no. Mushrooms on my pizza? I eat two fucking bags full. No, no, no. See you later, brain.

Microdosing is a clinically dosed sub-psychoactive amount. that I mean, dude, I'm living my day-to-day life like every two, three days, I'm on a protocol where, dude, take it with breakfast and lift or write or do podcasts or... Mushrooms? Yeah, Sylce Ivan, yeah.

Do you know what? So, hang on, did you microdose today? Yes. Do you know what? See, I was thinking while you were talking, I was like, you guys really fucking smart. Like, the way everything comes out, I'm like, there's some fucking connections going on.

And in my head, I was just like, just the fucking guitar nerd shit coming out. but it's not. It's the fucking the synapses in the brain. I mean, dude, neurological reprogramming and not only that, just strengthening existing connections and even taking strides towards growing,

you know, re sort of unwiring and rewiring and firing new neurons. And, you know, it's like, it's, I mean, at this age, like, first of all, even if it's not microdosing, I feel like everybody needs, to discover the holistic benefits of mycelia, because there are a whole other host of mushrooms from that family that are not psilocybin that have unbelievable, unbelievably profound benefits in the

body. Like, if anyone was going to take one supplement now, it should be Lions main because lion's main mushroom is, it's, so it works synergistically in the microdose protocol with psilocybin because it regrows. It essentially resheaves the neuron. in this gooey coating called myelin, which breaks down over time, and this is where Alzheimer's and these sort of types of dementia and things come from. And of course, just, you know, staying on your probiotics and your omegas and making sure your micronutrients are all topped up and getting your sleep is definitely enough. But we can also actively preserve what we have and grow further beyond that. So everybody is in real podcast hours. Let's go.

real fucking podcast shit. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we could have gone there a lot earlier. We just, you know, you got to bounce all over the place a little bit. It's all good. So the thing is, is that everyone associates microdosing with just like, yes, like it does have profound mental health benefits, like allowing you to resolve emotions that are maybe preventing you from overcoming depression and anxiety and the things that ail you mentally.

Don't gloss over that because they're the ones that I need. Don't gloss over those. Well, I'm going to give you. Come back to those. Sure. I'm going to give you. resource though. I think that this would absolutely help. And like, I've listened to your podcast and I think I know enough about your personality type to know that this is definitely the answer for you.

And you can do away with the five HTTP and you can work this protocol and this is going to be what gets you beyond and even further beyond. Because I know where there's fucking, I mean, I don't want to criminalize myself. But I know where there's fucking liby caps down the fucking street. And it's the right time of year. So there's just like some, yeah, there's just some things that you need to just make sure that dosage is correct and that you're stacking. hacking it properly with certain things, taking it at the right time, setting an intention, doing it every two to three days, not doing it every day. But the point that I was going to make was when we're talking about rehabbing injuries and when we're talking about retraining the body

for motor patterns and things like that, you know, like postural things, like a drummer stuff, guitar player, you know, whatever, which is kind of coming full circle to what we started off the podcast with. I honestly believe that a lot of the progress that I've made, were from, was literally because I was synergistically taking something that was allowing my body to re-establish, but also grow beyond the motor patterns and neurological connections that I currently have. For example, when you have something like chronically tight hamstrings and you can't hinge properly or you have like limited thoracic mobility and you can't get the body to move past a certain point, you need to bring the body to that brink and you need to have that intention set and use breathwork

and get everything to where you absolutely feel like, if I could only just, if I could just get, and then tomorrow, watch. And then the next day, watch. Watch what happens when you set that intention. And of course, you know, if you really want to kick these things up, there's lots that we can be doing.

First of all, get the diet right. Nutrition is everything because, I mean, you know, I'm really good. I got my diet on lock. I know you do. 20 grams, 20 grams of peanut butter. Yeah, I got it. Exactly. The diets unlock. The fucking anxiety, brain, death is fucked. So there's a book that you should read. It's called, well, there's a couple, but I'm reading a book right now called This Is Your Brain on Food. And this is incredible for the connection between your brain and your second brain, which is your stomach. And understanding the gut microbiome and its influence on neurotransmitters and your brain health. And understanding that it's not your brain that's causing those issues. And it actually, even

if the diets on point, you could be lacking in a particular set of pro and prebiotics. I mean, well, yeah, potentially, but it's, but it's probably more in the lactobachelous rambnosis category. It's more in the pre and probiotic vibes. Okay, so let me just fucking add to that. And I fully agree that there is a link there. And I don't want this next thing to be taken out of context and for people to dismiss a whole fucking ethical movement because of it. And I still actually practice that ethical movement for the most part, right? But when I had what I will say is a fucking entire mental breakdown,

I had been vegan for three months. Mm-hmm. And it came out of fucking nowhere. Yep. And I mean, I've done vegan since. I've come back, but I've been more on my... Supplements. Probiotics.

B12. Eating a little bit of fish. A lot more. And I feel better for it. But I'll never know if I just had a fucking... Because a load of shit happened at the same time. I'll never know if I just had a fucking break. down and now I'm like still the ramifications of that pop up every now and again or if that

actually was caused by some sort of fucking deficiency. It wasn't caused by but it put you in a situation where you were more susceptible to it. It wasn't, it's not, I don't want that to put anyone off because I don't know anyone else who's ever had that. Look, I'm not, I'm not, look, I'm not a, um, um, an advocate for one diet or another. I'm an advocate for the diet that works for you. But, It is clinically proven that there is a host of nutrient deficiencies that come from not eating or not obtaining the fat soluble vitamins from animal tissues. And look, there's vegan ways to get... Now you're getting fucking...

Now you're getting Rogan on me. Now I need someone to pull that up. I need the fucking things. You need Jamie. Because I know so many people are vegan and they're absolutely fine. And I do fine on it. But I tell you what, now I have... I'm pretty much vegan but with fish.

and a little bit of yogurt, yogurt. I feel fucking incredible. I haven't eaten meat in 2020. And that's totally okay. This is what I was getting at. There's ways around it. There are vegan D3 supplements. You can get vitamin A and, you know, the E's, there's more than one E. So you can get, you know, tesiferals from like various different, um, vegan, uh, sources. however the most potent and the most natural and bioavailable for the body is to eat the rumenant flesh or the organ is death is the uh is is you know consuming those things and look I'm not like the crazy dude who's doing I'm first of all not carnivore or any of these like wild things I'm not doing any of that stuff. I just hate the buzzwords of it podcast carnivore carnivore

carnivore yeah you gotta do this man no no no I hate it too trust me I'm an advocate for what works for you, but a lot of people aren't in tune with their body, man. And a lot of people don't know how to read what's happening. They don't know how to read their skin. They don't know how to read their sleep. They don't know how to read their stomach. Um, the biggest thing for me, the tell all for me is my nerves and my nervous system and my ability to calm a thought, evade a thought, um, actually, um, take my, you know, um, my heart rate or my breathing into, uh, you know, Because you know what you need to do, but if the body won't cooperate, so if you can't kick in the autonomic nervous system fast enough, then there's something wrong there. Your body is trying to. Your mind is sending the signals, but something's not happening. And vagal tone, vagal nerve tone and the autonomic nervous system are connected between the... That's the brain to the stomach. And that's why you feel fear in the gut. And that's why it's your second brain. And that's why the thing that's filled with this microbiome,

of different bacterial species is not to be discredited. And if you can take an anti-inflammatory and put it in your stomach, which then relieves a headache in the brain, tell me why something can't travel in the other direction. This is...

Ooh. This is fucking sick. Do you know what? This kind of podcast makes me go, I've got a good podcast. Fuck yeah, dude. Sometimes I do an episode and I'm like,

that's just me talking to a guy. And then this is like, this is one of the real podcasts. Yeah, dude, of course. Took us a minute to get here, but I'm always down to chop it up about the nerdy shit. I mean, I love this stuff. And I think that it's incredibly fascinating. It fixed me, man.

I mean, I'll be honest. Like, I had a really bad experience with keto, which was the beginning of my journey for, you know, to figure out how to balance my health and stick a stick the landing on the way out. You know, there's a bad experience. Well, I mean, first of all, like. Just the diet in general. Oh, I, well, no, I was into it. I was into the diet, actually. I'm super into that.

I did miss carbs and crunchy things and stuff, of course. But, like, I think what it is is there's not an... And also, look how much keto has disappeared from the mainstream. Like, you don't see it in the fitness YouTubers talking about it that much anymore. You don't see it in the podcast all the time. And you do see the products because, you know, they made their way into the health food stores and to the fitness stores and stuff like that. But it's not all the rave anymore.

And I think that whether people would like to admit it or not, a lot of people had a really bad experience with it because unless you're genetically predisposed or you have some sort of health condition that that is forcing your metabolism to run on a non-glucose metabolism and to run on, you know, basically survival metabolism, like fucking, I'm about to die metabolism. Okay, so for me, I got kicked out early, like mentally I wanted to continue. doing it, but my body didn't. And it turned up in my skin, um, on my chest and my neck. I had like a really bad breakout. It was like a, you know, they called it keto rash, but it was way worse than

anything that I had seen online. And even my family physician who was, you know, this is, and shout out to him because he's fucking great. And we do have great doctors in Canada. But this is what got me on to the path of searching out holistic nutrition and naturopathy and everything and taking medical matters into my own hands was when he was like looking at what going on and not understanding. It looks like this, but I've never seen it before. And are you feeling okay? Like, I'm like, dude, no, it's just, he's like, okay, just, uh, fucking carve up. I don't know what, like, it's like, okay, you really don't know what's going on here. So I did that and I absolutely, for everything that I was doing right with doing the keto thing, I didn't stick the landing on the way

out. I revved my metabolism in the wrong direction by just carving up and living my life the way I normally would again. I did not ease back in. And that was the unraveling for me. And I had a prolonged mental period of just absolute misery. And this is when I felt my neurotransmitters and everything go out of whack was when my metabolism reshifted. I wasn't the same person again. And it's really, really challenging. Yeah. Is this just a, we've done the album slightly, but just to bring it back, is that what a lot of the fucking song titles are? I know. There's no lyrics, but as there are like, you're thinking about the specific thing around that same time. Obviously, the artwork, as well as being very cynic, very tolly, it obviously is the fucking,

literally what you're talking about right now. Circadian's actually more so of a metaphor for, like, constantly striving for balance. I've, two records ago, there's a song called Libra, which was sort of like me, the beginning of me acknowledging, not that I'm like hot on like the whole zodiac thing or astrology or anything like that, but I'm an only child and my birthday is October the 6th. My father's October the 5th and my mom, September 28th. So we're literally three Libra's, which is really funny. Which is a perfect circle. Yeah. So that's my family. That's us. And like, you know, the scales always play this role in my like, mentally for me.

It's just more so of something I'm striving for is like trying to find balance. Like when I live an unorthodox lifestyle where I'm my own boss and I can be away for like 160 plus days at a time a year and trying to like maintain relationships and be the same person on it off the road and stuff. It's like always like this balance thing.

So the way forward with an X record was actually more so commentary and sort of metaphor and allusion to that kind of thing told through a bit of a different lens. And circadian is like really a full-blown metaphor for achieving balance and me learning about these things and and sort of like being in a better place with it. And these are the things that I care about and just kind of like different concepts that I think are interesting regarding, you know, biohacking and being a balanced better, you know, like optimal human being, whatever that means. But yeah, it's just the nerdy shit that I'm that I'm, that I'm, into and that I care about. And like, you know, I think a lot of guys miss the, they sort of

lose the plot on telling like a proper story with this music. It's a lot of like ambiguous random words from Wikipedia and just like random generic space blob scenario on the cover. And I'm not taking a dig at anybody or whatever. When I saw 5HTP, that's what I thought. Yeah. I had the supplement in my hand and was like, wait a minute. That's just gibberish. Yeah. No, there's a, there is a competent story that's being told, not necessarily like, you know, like a long a timeline or any particular, like, there's no, like, uh, act one, act two with, like, characters or anything, although the way forward was just, was a little bit more like that. Um, this is, uh, me just trying to create an overarching concept and, uh, put sort of, uh, little, um,

bullet points underneath that umbrella, basically. Did you, did you say there is a commentary? Common, commentary in sort of, it, it's more of an implied commentary through the song titles and everything. I thought you had like one recorded. Oh, I would love to actually do an audio version. I usually write a text dissertation of everything that's going on. And Colin from Circus Survive created all of the paintings for the, for the art. And he's very, very left brain, very cosmically minded. And he and I had a conversation at the beginning of the year that absolutely led to a lot of the things that were on my mind. And there was some strange synchronities and a bunch of things that he and I talked about. And we felt a bit of a connection. So I was like, yeah, absolutely Colin is the guy.

to tackle this project and bring it to life for me. And I'm so happy with the visual aesthetic to complement everything that I was trying to create. So, yeah, it's like... I want to get, obviously, we're on fucking two hours now. Let's go. That's long for the downbeat. There's a few things. I'm fucking hungry and I need to pee, but I also need more wisdom from you.

So I'm going to fucking... Let's pack a little more in, man. And then we're going to do your top five bands at the end. Fuck, I might even have to break to pee in a minute. but seamlessly the listener will not know that that happened but they will know now because I've said it that it has happened. Perfect. The, okay, the microdosing.

So, long story short, my brain's fucked. And what you were saying about the re, almost like the rehab for the brain, the fucking and the body programming, neurological things. That's what he's saying. when I'm fucking literally bawling my eyes out to my girlfriend for no way, no reason whatsoever. I'm like, I just want someone to fucking wash my brain. Just go in there, fucking clean all the shit out because there's something in there and fuck it off. My two problems, and I'm not, this is not like me disregarding modern science or whatever.

but for me the previous medication that I'd been given I tried three different ones and I didn't get on with any of them so I just gave up I honestly think the scientists go well

okay do you want to be fat or do you want to have an orgasm pick one of those um you know you want to it's like not they are mutually exclusive in the world of fucking anti-anxiety, anti-depressants, which, for certain people,

I'm one of those people that if a thing on the back, and I don't even have to read it, if it's like one in 10,000 people will have this side effect, I'm the motherfucker that gets it. I deliberately didn't check with all these fucking meds whenever I started taking them. You just tried them. I want to read those because I know that I'm a fucking, psychotriac. Yeah, I'll like make

it happen and I'm like three days in on one and I'm like, I'm thinking about killing myself far more than normal. Yeah. And then I look and it's like one in fucking 10,000 people it will make it worse. I'm like, oh. Yeah. Okay, I probably stop that one and then I've got a different one and I was like, I just got really fat and then I was like, oh, I'm really fat and I can't do anything about it. Oh, that's a known side effect with that one.

Okay, is there another one that doesn't have the... Oh, yeah, you can try this one. Okay, now my penis won't work. So... And then they're literally, the doctors just go, I mean, that's... Which do you want? You want to kill yourself?

Or you want your clock to work, or you want to maintain your physical fucking fitness goals. Yeah. For me, none of that works. So I said, you know what? I'm going to try and fucking figure this out on my own. And I'm getting there. we can get it, we can get it faster.

You can get there. I'm going to give you some resources. Yeah, give me that shit. I'm going to give you some resources. My worry though. My worry is fucking, I'm literally terrified of tripping because of, you're not going to.

You're not going to. And then my other worry is like, calm down. You're not going to. I hate calm down. It doesn't, okay, so there's a lot to unpack here.

So the book I'm currently reading, which is something that I think you absolutely need to read, is called This Is Your Brain on Food. And she is a nutritional, psychologist, psychiatrist or psychote, it's, it's a really interesting, you don't, how often do you hear the two come together? They're two. Josh from architect's wife is one and she told me to read that book before and I ignored her and now you're telling me and I'm not. Yeah, you need to read it. So, okay, so this is what it talks about. It talks about the gut microbiome and its effect on brain

chemistry and that it's not necessarily the thing that you substitute in place of the medications. It increases the efficacy of those should you feel that you need to bring those in on top. Because a lot of the time, and this is the thing with a selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor, serotonin is produced in the stomach. It's not produced in the brain. So the gut microbiome has a massive impact on neurotransmitters and brain health because they've done research to show that certain types of probiotics and gut bacteria and things exist within people that have a higher quality of life versus those that are depressed. And just by flipping a switch in the quality of life in that individual, so that could be a car accident, the loss of a loved one, a relationship. If you were to take a snapshot of their gut microbiome, there are like 50 different bacteria

that exist inside the same individual within the matter of like a week or two from the shift in their perspective, it changes the activity inside the stomach. Okay? Crazy. Yes. This is why the pre and probiotic thing is so important.

This is why you're doing the yogurt, that's fine. You should probably bring in a little bit of kombucha. You should bring, that in this country, but I definitely, I have, probiotic. There's no, there's no kombucha. There is, but it's like fucking, you can only get it in some crazy shop. It's not, and I don't know what I'm not.

Okay. It's not like it is in the States. Sourcrow. But I take, I take a fucking probiotic pill. Yeah, that's, lackability, like the bachelous. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's totally fine, but getting them from highly fermented food sources is going to be

so pickled things like, yeah, like kimchi, sourcour out pickles themselves, kifir, or kefir or whatever, yogurt, all that stuff. 100% getting it from, just like with any nutrient.

It's always better to get it from a food source, of course. So that's one thing. But I wanted to mention that because the efficacy of some of those drugs is actually based on your gut microbiome. So getting that in a certain position is going to allow them to work better. However, it's not going to thwart those side effects that you're describing. So here's

what I would do. And I, disclaimer, I am not a doctor. I am not a trained. You're a guitarist. I was just thinking that in my head. I was like, this goes a fucking guitarist. I'm loving this, but we have not spoke about a fucking spalted maple fucking top. We won't ever speak about spalted maple tops. That's totally fine. We can talk. We can, nah, fuck it. So look, this is fucking goddamn shit about your fucking, oh, play a fucking EMG humbuckers. That's Josh's game. That's Josh's game.

That's not my game. So look, this is what I want to say, though, is if I was your doctor, and I'm not your doctor, I would recommend a liver cleanse to start. I would wash that bitch out, and I would get the, whatever it was that you were taking out of your system. I would flush the liver.

There's a couple ways to do it. gone. That was a long while ago. Okay, perfect. Perfect. Either way, everyone needs a liver cleanse. I would recommend it. So, start there. Then... How do I do that? Vodka. Sounds like a vodka. Sounds like a vodka thing. 16 ounces of celery juice in the morning.

Warm water with lemon and apple cider vinegar. Right, so now all of these buzzwords to me, and I know that I'm the wrong person, buzzword of just fucking... fucking the opposite end the shit works man it works it works it works

it works yeah and there's a couple other ways to do it probably does there's probably a fucking reason and I'm being

the worst person though by just thinking bitter greens like dead because you have celery in the morning that's what I just

immediately pigeonhole those people like oh celery juice and fucking turmeric when was the last time you fucking wash your sheets

Dude, holy shit, that's unbelievable. Yeah, okay, look, I'm probably boring people with this, but yeah, clean, I need to know, because I'm gonna do it.

Clean the liver out, and it's not something that you just, you can do like a really intensive blast, and I would recommend it to jumpstart things, but it is the kind of thing that I would just work into your daily practice. And then I would bring in a clinical, ethically,

sorry, I should say, efficaciously clinically dosed, protocol for microdosing. And it's going to be in the form of, look, if there's anyone that makes them properly, makes the doses properly for you, it'll be stacked with Lyons mane and niacin. So vitamin B3 and Lyons main and the correct dose of the active ingredient. And you take it in the morning with your first meal and a coffee or whatever.

and you throw it in with your supplements or on its own however you like to do it, just take it with your first meal and set an intention, but don't act like, oh my God, I just took mushrooms. Because first of all, you're not going to get high because that's just not how it works. It doesn't move the needle that way. What you're going to notice, though, is how productive you were that day and how little you thought about everything behind you and how excited you were for everything in front of you. So this is my other problem with non-conventional things. Because on paper, right, that sounds fucking fantastic.

And in my head, I'm like, I'll just do that for the rest of the rest of time. Which for a minute, I thought, oh, I can't sleep. I'll just take Valium before I get a bit. No. Forever. Now, that cannot recommend. Tell you that. But the, but then, like, what do I do?

What do I do if I go on tour? It's fucking illegal to have the mushrooms. Is it? So, yeah. Mm, I really, oh, I'm flying to America with a fucking visa. just get fucking magic, like processed, dried magic mushrooms. No, no, they're in class A drugs. Okay, let me, I have, I do not care.

I will speak openly about this. I travel around. It's fine, but I mean, I want to fucking. I travel around with a pill divider. And when we did South East Asia, so I started in Singapore. No, don't tell me that. I had the biggest fuck off pill divider that was filled with, with my fish oil.

Yeah, I've got one of those with my fucking chit in it. It's not, dude. I was throwing that thing around at security. They would pull it out of my backpack because I would just keep it on me. You should not be talking about this right now. You'll get pulled up. No. So honestly,

some fucking kid will tip off someone next time you're playing one of these fucking things. What, that I had Lions Made Mushroom and B3 in a capsule that's all legal and that I could buy at the store. I was traveling around with... It was all by the other thing. It may or may not have been in there. It doesn't matter.

I was just traveling on with supplements. I mean, yeah. There are some... Melatonin is illegal in the fucking UK. Yeah, doses of vitamin D3 over 1,000 IU are illegal in Canada. Really?

Yeah. They don't want anyone's test an osteoan level to be accurate. I take five times the fucking dose of the... Yeah, thank. Yeah, I take 5,000 IU a day. Anyway, so,

you know, it's possible. First time, A buddy of mine gave me the protocol was in Vancouver, and I was in the middle of a North American tour. So where do you think I went? Yeah, but Canada, your mushrooms are legal, aren't me? Yeah, but I was in a North American tour.

Oh, yeah. You see, that's fine with, I guess. No, it's not fine. How I always feel, if we're talking really candidly, that's how I always feel about fucking, uh, juicing. Because sometimes I'm just like, fuck it. I'm just going to do it. I don't care.

I'm just going to fucking get a little fucking, just a little fucking protocol. And then I think, ah, what are they doing in America? No, no. And I think, oh, just fucking get a guy. No. I'm not going to do it. Anyone are listening? My mom's listening.

I'm not going to do it. It's for later in life when you're... In it? When it drops and then you just get it legally. That's for later. That's what I'm waiting for. I'll wait for later in life. I'll go, doctor, the fat good muscles going.

I go, right, boy. Here's a prescription. Dude, there's fucking nothing wrong with that. Why wouldn't you want to have a good life? 100% doing it. Yeah, there you go. 100%. When my test levels drop, like naturally,

I will just restore them to 18 year old boy and I will live out the rest of my days. You'll be, you'll be better than you probably ever were. Exactly. There's nothing wrong with it, my friend. And I don't know that I'm fully decided, but I'm not against it.

I'm not against having a good life and not being a miserable fuck to your partner and to everybody around you and like not being... Well, apparently they can go the other way. Apparently, if you were using that defense in fucking court, if we want to bring this whole thing back. Oh, shit. No. No. No, no, no, we're good. Um, but look, I mean, off air, you and I can talk about what I think could do some wonders for you and I wholeheartedly

back it. And I've, um, actually had this very conversation with a lot of complicated individuals in my life who this has made an extreme amount of difference for. Um, is there no chance it would make me go more mental though. No, dude. Because I can't handle that. I can't handle more. Like today, I'm absolutely fucking very chipper. I'm in a nice fucking, nice mood. Yesterday, also actually,

nice mood. Yeah, yeah. The day before, tears all day. If we had this fucking podcast two days ago, oh shit. It would have got canceled. You would have got the canceled.

Oh, I would have been, I would have been, I would have been bummed out, man. I got to say, I was looking forward to it because I'm just a fan. I listen to him all the time.

I think you're a funny dude. I'm doing so many of these that I'm looking for the refreshing ones. I'm looking forward to those because if I am going to hang out with a microphone in my face and sit for hours, then it's going to be like this. It's got to be. But you know what? All the rest of that discussion is for you and I to have another time because we will continue to keep in touch and I'll definitely share. I love that. Yeah, well, yeah, we'll share some resources and stuff. I'll show you some really good things that I think are going to help you and you can trust or not trust me, but it's going to be really good for you, I promise.

So if we want to get back on track musically, we can do that because I'm sure you're itching to get going, and I've probably got a few things I need to do. I'm working on a collab with somebody that you know. Well, who is it? It's Mr. William Putney, but I'm probably not. Are you not allowed to talk about it? Well, I am, I am, because it's going to actually comes up

before my record comes out, I think. the stems and the video is due in on Tuesday. And I can talk about it. Fuck it. So basically every year tune track for Metal Month does this thing called Drumception where a producer composes a track that's drums only and then like four guitar players are selected. So I...

They never pick a drummer to do it. Always a producer. Anyway, carry on. Well, Will made a fucking banger. All right. He's fucking really good. So good at drummed. I mean, dude, the shit rules.

I was so excited. The minute I fired it up, I was like, yep, this is going to be sick as fuck. So I, uh, I jumped on it a couple of days ago. And I still really have the like the writing bug because I, you know, I finished up the record in the summer and we're just kind of, you know, I'm just rehearsing for videos and stuff and doing the rollout now. So I'm super hungry to continue like writing, especially with no road. It's like I fucking have to have it. So this fell into my lap and I'm really excited about it. I'm a big fan of everything Putney does. in fact, he and I talked a couple days ago, and he was on the list for me to do this

latest record with, but I'm silver lining. We didn't book it because, you know, there's just this little thing called a global pandemic that's happening. So I wouldn't have been able to go to... I haven't heard of it, but that's another podcast. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'll send you a resource. So, yeah, though, I would have gone to graphic nature and done that, and we certainly would have booked that in. And my manager knows him well and stuff. And my manager Rich handles four-year Strong who did their latest record with Will and I fucking love that album so much. Oh my goodness. I think he knows Tom. I think they're buddies. Tom works for Tom works for my manager's company. Tandem management. Tandem management is Richard Fernandez. That's my manager. He handles me,

protest the hero. The other part of tandem is Paul Kohler from Silverstein. So it's like it's just while we're on it. Have you ever heard the band that Tom manages that are crypto Dera? Yeah. They're supposed to be on my tour that I would leave for in like two weeks. And they were on my, they were on my tour with Vaila Maya, my co-headliner with Vaila Have you heard the new record? Dude, they're, first of all, sick as fucking dudes. Also, sick as fucking music. They're so sick.

Do we love, love, love that band. And they're like kids, but they have like this knowledge of old prog. They're fucking sick, dude. Yeah, they play like a bunch of old heads. Yeah, they're so good, dude. But anyhow, so, yeah, I've had a blast composing this track, and I messaged Will to be like, I did not do the fucking bog standard, like, riff salad thing.

I wrote a full tilt intervals tune. Like, I'm sending you more than just like a couple of riffs, and it's just like whatever. Like, I put the kitchen sink in it. There's like hell of synth layers and fucking harmonies everywhere. There's like full-on leads and everything. So it's basically in intervals times Will Putt, whether or not it's being acknowledged that way or not,

because it is for this strange little project. I want to figure out a way to release that on streaming platforms. This song absolutely fucking slaps because it's, it's like metal, metal, metal intervals with like my vibe on top of it with fucking blast beats and shit. It's so fucking sick, dude. You're going to like it. I'll send you a clip soon.

So, yeah, so I'm working on that. And, uh, fucking, I don't know how we got there, but, uh, I'm a big fan of what's going. on there.

So usually you were basically saying I have to go because I'm doing this. No, I don't have to. Really quickly. Albums out November 13th. Correct? 14th? November 13th. Yeah, November 13th.

There'll be a single that comes out at the beginning of November. We got one more up our sleeve. Features probably my favorite guitar player of all time. So which is amazing that he was gracious enough to play on the song with me. It's track six from the record. It's called String Theory. He's an Italian guitar player named Marcos Fogley. He's fucking godly.

Like there's so much attitude in that. fucking solo and he just, he delivered for me. So we feature him in the video. Um, and I'm shooting the video for this collab with Putney on Saturday with my guy as well. And that'll be, so there'll be a full on play through for that and everything coming up. But yes, record comes on November 13th. We're doing a billboard here in Toronto for a month. Big ass billboard in downtown Toronto. Super fucking excited for that. That's fucking cool. Yeah. If you didn't have a girlfriend, that's the sort of shit you could walk around and be like, that's my billboard. Yeah, that's me. Yeah. And it's the, it's the album cover.

enormous on a billboard, dude. How fucking dope is that going to be. That is getting your dick fucking hard. That is, that's, you're a semi-chumessence for the whole month. Dude, it's, it's good. It's real good. So, yeah, so we're doing some cool shit like that. And then, of course, you know, we're doing the crazy PR run. And then we're going to try to figure out, it's complicated because half the band is American guys. So with the pandemic and everything going on, it's been really challenging. I would have jumped on a live stream or some sort of other interactive type of thing with everybody if we could. We can't do it though. So it's challenging. But I'm just going to continue writing. And, you know, if anyone made it this far, like, just

check out the record. The two singles that are out right now are just fucking flying on Spotify and on all the other platforms. And it's been probably the strongest received intervals material yet. I feel really good about it. There's definitely some, you know, it's all the things that I wanted to do with the music. But then there's like this shade of like weird, whatever this pandemic vibe was, considering I started writing the first song right after Nam at the end of January, and I, from Rump to Stump, made a record, and we're dropping it this year. So, um, it exists within the fucking, you know, confines of whatever 2020 is, um, but, where's Nathan from? Is he from Toronto as well? About 40 minutes for me. So you, you just, you just recorded, okay, so you were able to get together

to do that. We could do that and then Jacob did. We didn't talk about the fucking production of the album at all. We talked about the gym and we talked about mushrooms. And it's two hours and 21 minutes later. That's so sick. No, we didn't talk about any of that. But I've talked about it in another podcast and stuff like that. And it's all good. Anyone who wants that shit, go listen to fucking Billy's blog where we talked about the fucking humdinger pickup fucking TRS cable, impulse, fucking.

I love this. Coil over. I was just picturing like when you read Guitar World. and they draw the little diagram with the little signal to the flow. Coil over. Bird's eye, maple, the neck. The Humdinger TRS impulse coil over bird's eye neck.

He's fucking. Bird's eye neck. Spalted maple top and the fucking robot tuning shit that Gibson did. No, okay, we can do with everything except for that, but the fucking dusk tiger. That's what this shit was called. I have no idea. I know that

Josh got a silverburst fucking that had that on it leave Les Paul and it had to spend so much money to get it off anything I know all of those words I just know from knowing Josh

I love come around to my house back in there and be like oh I just got this thing with a fucking humdinger blah blah blah and I'm like oh cool bro the buzzwords that you chose

specifically were so good I love that so much so fucking yeah man I mean no if people want to know about this stuff I've talked exclusively at length like with I did a neural DSP live stream and we talked about all the goings on. And I also have a fucking studio documentary

that's on my YouTube where we literally talk about like the making of the record and everything. So that's not what this. The game is on there, guys. It's yeah, exactly. You need the game settings is on there. Yeah, this is not what this podcast was for. So, um, yeah, man. No, it's, scooped mitts. I don't know what I'm saying. They're just things I've heard. I got to remember all these. When we're, when we're, when we're recording with Will, he'll do something and I'll just pop in and be like, it's a bit boxy at like 400. That's the frequency that. So it's in there.

It's in my fucking head. It's between 250 and 400, but yeah. It sounds like boxy around 400. Can we maybe multi-band down? I'm going to remember all these for the caption when we post the podcast. That's good. So, yeah, we can, I know we're bursting at the seams because this is. fucking, this one's long,

which I... I need your top five bands as well. Yeah, I'm just doing them real quick. I'm gonna give you that. I'm gonna give you that. I love that music is just like the least important part of this whole thing. But I love that and to be honest,

I think... Here's the thing. I applied myself on it. Here's the thing about top five bands. Okay? It's not possible. So I've created... I've preemptively created you a list of things that matter to me.

It better not be more than five. It better not be more than five. Okay, then I'll just pick the five that stand out on this list for me today. It's a couple, more than five, but it's not. Here's my opinion. Here's my opinion with top fives. There's three that are deafener and then you have two rotators. All right, cool. So we talked about one of them already and I mentioned it and it's definitely say hello to Sunshine by Finch. That's, that's

definitely in there, for sure, which is, yeah, just a huge record. Okay. Some of them I put slashes because you know that there's like really, like, it's like two records for the same artist because you cannot make me choose. So I'm going to, I'm going to bundle some of them. I know I'm breaking the rules, but it is what it is. Fortress and Cazia by protest the hero. They're interchangeable, of course. But you just say protest then. I just need the bands. I don't need the album. Or are you telling me that you think the rest of their discography sucks. Oh, you want, no, I'm not saying that you want top five bands. You don't care about the albums? You just want the band. I care about the band and then I'll say which album. Okay, so Finch is definitely not a top five

at all then. I just chose the record because it's an important one, so I'm complicated. Um, okay, so strung out. Thrice. Okay. Sixth. Oh, we could have talked about sixth for an hour, man. We certainly could have. We're going to actually talk a tiny bit about sixth after this because I need to.

Thrice, strung out, sixth, protest the hero and, uh, oh. See, this is the rotator. Now you put in what you're listening to now. Oh. Oh, I just, oh, right now I just, I'm hot on that, uh, the latest. Silosis record, but that's, you know, but you know. That's the humdinger himself. And I'm loving that new architect song and people are salty and they can all shut the

fuck up because it is so good. It's so good. I know it's not technical, but it's like, well, this is the problem with people, isn't it? But dude, I got, I had some, yeah, but no, for sure. And they just don't get it. And that's fine. I'm allowed to slack off your fan base. You're not.

No, I'm allowed to say it. I'll do it for you. I'll do it for you. fucking nerdy little fucking, oh, jingle jangle, jangle, bupah, but you fucking recognize a song, you fucking dicks. Wow, that's crazy. There was a bunch of stuff on this. There's a bunch of stuff, okay, yeah.

You're desperate to tell me. You just fucking read the list. No, there was like a few more weird things on here because I didn't give you anything outside of rock and metal, which is like, I'm so, exactly, I'm so glad you. I know you need to get it out. I know, I had pendulum and image and heap on my list as well, so. I listened to Pendulum when we've been having fucking, like, me and my girlfriend have been having, like, COVID parties. And we'll just fucking slam pendulum on and get fucked up.

It's just two of us in the fucking flat on our own. Immersion is a huge record for me. I fucking love Pendulum. So, yeah, I'm into a bunch of weird stuff, man. I'm all over the place. That doesn't even scratch the fucking surface. But you wanted to talk about sixth. Yeah.

I just really quickly. Like, when they came back, what did you think? I love everything they've ever done. And Dan Weller hit me up the other day to tell me he loves a record and I fucking cried. My first band, Viatrophy, recorded our album with Dan and Justin. Legends.

Fucking legends. Man, I just feel like they fucking... The other vocalist, man. Dude, it's weird, man. It's supposed to be weird. Look, I prefer the more melodic stuff. The spoken word stuff always, look, listen to Death of a Dead Day

and ride your bike from downtown Toronto to the suburbs on acid, and then you'll be like, oh, I fucking get it. I loved it, but then when it came back and it was like, there was no Justin, but then there was, it felt like there was way more fucking spooky guy.

Spooky. Do you know what I mean? The fucking, I'm a chicken in a cage. There is a man. What does he say? The band says, I'm the king of all men. You are not a king.

That is fucking accurate. I'm fucking crying. That is actually so accurate. I mean, if they ever need you, you can audition. I can fucking do it. I get it. It's art. It's poetry.

The guy's fucking, I gather he had the artistic vision for the fucking song. He's the Prague, Bob Dylan. Get it. But he's. he must have like a decent screaming voice or something. All this weird shit. I am the Willy Wonka man. Are you the Willy Wonka who owns the chocolate factory?

I am that same he. I am that same he. I am that same he. Dude, you're so good at it. It's actually fucked up. Holy shit. Look, death of it. I can't stop being such a cunt.

know how good that was too, and that's why you can't handle it. Holy shit. Look, Death of a Dead Day is one of the greatest records of all time. It's fucking incredible. So hard to fucking, you know, outdo that one. So it is what it is. I love that band dearly. And I discovered them through Protest, the Hero.

I remember protested come back from like one of their many, you know, first like Europe or UK runs. And I think they did shows with them. And I was super young. I was playing in local bands. I was just lucky to even fucking get to talk to any of the protest guys. This is well before intervals or like I, you know, became friends or like worked on their records, like, you know, whatever.

And I remember them being like, oh, we found this bay called Sixth over the pond and fuck. Like, you know, you got to check it out. And it's like, man, blew my absolute mind, like head clean off my neck. Doing before everyone. Just unbelievable. So, so ahead of their time. So, yeah.

They'll, they're just legends. Treason dead and dried out. Some of the songs on them. Great record. From like 2000. Yeah, absolutely. And a great record, but Death of a Dead Day

is the fucking sick. It's, it's this unbelievable. So yeah, man, I love that stuff. And hence why I love protest and, you know, I like my proggy,

weirdy, dirty. Protest do the crazy vocals, but they're like, fine. That's fine. Well, protests are more rooted in that like propaganda

strung out, like thrashy punky, you know, which is why, obviously it's my speed. and I fucking, you know, I grew up on that and it grew up all the things that influenced them too. So, you know, like that's where, I don't know,

I feel like a lot of us in this, like, neck of the woods have that, like, vibe about us. We like that kind of shit, so. I wonder if the English accent, spooky fucking... Are you the man from the castle? Like, I wonder if it's... The fact Americans love it so much is because it's an English accent

which makes it even weird. Like, the same time, When I watched, like, fucking, was it like the conjuring or something I watched? And they had like English accents, but they weren't English. And it was like, all my American friends that, like, horror were like, this movie's amazing. I put it on and there's like a kid like, hello, mummy. Like, whoa, what the fuck?

Is that how that kid talks for the whole film? Mommy, I think there's a little monster in my pet. I'm like, fuck this. And that's how I feel about the man. Are you the cabling man who is here to design my. mind. Dude, my own private sixth, like, vocal adlibs,

this is so fucking... I'm gonna release fake, fucking fake six songs. I'm gonna say insane shit. Please. Like, canceled shit. Please, please. And I'll put it on fucking Spotify under that guy's name.

No, I won't. I'll never do this. But imagine if I did, it just said insane fucking... No. unheard of shit in his voice and then put it up as his name. Oh my God, I'm never going to do that. That's unreal.

I will never do that, but it would be fucking insane. That's unbelievable, man. Well, you're really good at it, and I think you should do something with that talent because... Cover band. We can't let it go to waste, man. Yeah. Give me a fucking, some dreadlocks.

I'll do the cover band. Holy shit. I'll do a fucking cover. about it. Posse Ford. Dude, it's uncanny, really, actually. It's incredible. Well, if anybody, if anybody has made it through this,

shout out to them because I've listened to your podcast and this might be one of the longest ones. This is the longest one. And why is that? 2.30. It depends if I cut out some of the shit where I could have been canceled. I'm going to have to re-listen to it and be like, am I getting away with this?

Not like I'm getting away with it. I know obviously morally I'm getting away with it. Fuck, dude. Will the subtle nuance of the rhetoric and the sort of character I was doing come across well as a click pay headline? And if you've got this fine, there's nothing where you thought,

hmm, that doesn't sound like that could be cancer. That's because it's not in the podcast anymore. There you go. Exactly. We worked it out. Good shit, man. That's it. This has been so much.

fun. Yeah, dude. Out of blast, man. It was a really, really good time. I was just like that. Just like that. My girlfriend's home. Right on time. Perfect. Love it. Oh, but I haven't done the fucking laundry and I said I would. Oh no. Let's fucking close this out. Send me your file. Text me your fucking mushroom shit. Yeah. I appreciate you. It's been a fucking pleasure. Absolutely. I'll send you this right away and we'll catch up soon. Thanks, bud. Later, bye. Bye.

See you.