The Downbeat - Andrew Hurley - Fall Out Boy

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

I caught up with Andrew Hurley, drummer of Fall Out Boy and a billion other (heavier) bands to talk about his need to scratch the heavy music itch away from his main gig, CrossFit, soundchecking with Behemoth, our mutual love of Lars Ulrich and Metallica, Dungeons & Dragons - and much more…He also curates THE MOST INSANE dream festival yet.

Hello, all you crazy. What did she say on the Tiger King thing? Cats and kittens, is that it? Bringing that back. Should I bring that back? I might bring Mr. Evil. Dr. Evil's little pinky thing back as well. $1 billion.

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because there's a room that will look sick for the podcast. This is the future of the podcast. I want to say a massive thank you to everyone on the Patreon because I could not have done it without you because it costs a lot of money. If you want to sling as a queer, it's patreon.com slash a downbeat. Anyway, boom,

the real reason you're here is for this star-studied episode of the downbeat with Andrew Hurley from Fallout Boy. What a fucking big guest. What a legend. It came out of nowhere, really. of explaining it on the podcast, but I was like, I was scrolling Instagram

and there's a photo of Fallout Boy and he's wearing a wattane shirt and then it like unlocked a memory where I was like, hang on, I know this guy is fucking legit. He's in vegan straight edge hardcore bands. He loves metal. And I was like, I wonder if he'll come

on the podcast. Sent him a DM. He replied straight away. He said some nice stuff about me, which is always good, isn't it? And then he came down. came into my kitchen which will soon you know bear with me

it will soon be an actual podcast studio came into my kitchen with the new gear set up we talked about metal we talked about the time he sound checked

for behemoth we barely talked about fallout boy we talked about dungeons and dragons he's an avid d and d player and i like want to be

I used to play warhammer and shit when I was a kid I feel like d and ds like even nerdier version of that so I'm fucking keen he like explains that to me

we talked about you know how he enjoyed his lockdown then his dream festival was the most extravagant one yet it's absolutely unbelievable and it sort of mashed two worlds together the dream festival we figured out is basically

musical d and d and he got really into it we didn't know each other so the first sort of like maybe half an hour as us getting to know each other the minute he gets into that dream festival and I see there's a moment where if you're watching this on YouTube you see his eyes light up when he realizes the dream festival is truly a dream festival and he can do whatever he wants

and it became like Dungeons and Dragons Dream Festival it was an absolute pleasure Fallout Boy are currently on the Hella Megator with Green Day, Weezer, Fallout Boy and I think Amel and the Sniffers are on pretty select dates, which is awesome. That band rocks. I'm going later today, so I've got to stop doing this.

Enjoy Andrew Hurley on the Downbeat Podcast. And we are now live. Excellent. Andrew Hurley. Of Fallout Boy, fame. Yep. Race traitor. Yep, yep.

Secht. A slew of other vegan straight-edge, hardcore bands, hardcore bands. Yep. Metal bands. How are you? Doing well.

Doing great. Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. If anyone wants to know the story behind what just happened with this, I saw Fall Out Boy were playing in Glasgow in two days time. No, in fact, this is what happened. We spoke about this earlier.

Yep. I saw a girl called Kitty who at the Kerang Awards styled Fall Out Boy. and or some of or something she was doing something there and you know when people make a video and they're like oh here you go and then they showed a picture of fallout boy and there you are with a wattane shirt on and the penny just fucking dropped i was like oh my god i totally forgot that you're into the heavy shit and you're in town in two days so i just slid in those dms

and you replied within like minutes yeah were you playing a show that No, I don't think so. I think that was a day off. I can't believe it. I think it could have been the Huddersfield show, but I think it was a day off. There was a show in Huddersfield. Yeah.

What was the venue? I don't know. Stadium. Oh, like the football stadium. I was going to say, I can't think of an entire venue like big enough, but obviously Huddersfield Town, football stadium must have been.

Yeah. Fuck it. So then that got my brain ticking about things to do with you liking metal. And I was like, oh, I remember I went down a rabbit hole of checking everything out a while back. And the number one thing that I want to speak to you about, the reason I want you in this kitchen, I want to make you a lovely coffee when you sound check with behemoth. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Where was it? So Andrea, or Dre, as I refer to her, who's in Race Trader, she was driving wolves in the throne room who was on that tour. One of my favorite bands of all time. Oh, yeah, they're great. So she hit me up because she's in town, so we went out to eat. And she's like, hey, so, and I love Behemath.

And she's like, hey, so they do like a sound check and they bring fans up to play. Like, would you want to do that? Because I could get that to happen. And I'm just like, no, there's no way. Like, I'm not ready. Super embarrassed. And she's just like, dude, you got to do it because she hits someone up and they were like yeah let's have them do it so i was like

fuck i have to do it yeah it's like my chance to do it so i just like went home listen to the the song i can't remember what song it was it's summing off the satanist i think yeah yeah like over and over played in the car like you know tapping and then got there uh i get i meet them they're super cool get on stage they start the track and I have no idea what their count in is. They don't have a count in. Like, we have a counten that's 5, 6, 7, 8 for every song. And there are some songs where I count in with it,

so it'll be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Right? They didn't have a counten. So it just starts, and I didn't come in because I have no idea what. They just had like raw, just, what, however many clicks before it started. Yeah, I guess, yeah.

It's just like click. And then it goes, you know, because it has a big intro or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And it was super embarrassing. And they're like, and so that, you know, they explain like, oh, we come in here. And then I wouldn't say I nailed it. No, you ripped it.

I've just seen the video. And I revisited it this morning as well. There's a few things happening. One thing that happened is the throne, like the, I don't know if this was a prank they pulled on me or something. I feel like it could have been. But the throne, the legs, like, I don't, like I have a DW throne, which is just, solid, you know. But this one, the thing dropped, the middle dropped, so the legs were up.

So it was like moving around. So I was holding myself up, which was brutal. I saw in the video, I could see, I was like looking at it this morning and I was like, is that a butt kicker or like, because you was. Yeah, yeah. That as well, because you are literally. But that's why. Because I was like, and I was like, hey, can you get this thing?

And they're just like, I don't know. I don't like, dude, I have to hold myself up with a song I've just learned. Like, I've heard it a lot. But it was awesome. You fucking ripped it, though. It was super fun. Yeah. Band is fucking unbelievable.

I fucked up the ride. Because I was super nervous. So I was tight and I was like rushing it a little bit. But it was so much fun. Yeah, that's fucking awesome. Did they like, did like, no girl or anyone say anything? thing. They knew it was you. Yeah, yeah.

They didn't think he, I thought he said something when I went up. I can't remember in the, yeah, but like, as long as they knew you weren't just a fan. They do. The drama of fallout boy. Yeah. That's fucking sick. It's very cool. Because some of the, like, some of the race traitors stuff, there's crazy fast double kicking that as well.

You got, like, mad double kick chops. Suck two a little bit. Yeah. Sex got more blasts in it. Yeah, more. Yeah. Race Trader has more like, consistent double bass.

So we just did a show last month, and it was brutal, just because I'm so out of practice for that. And I was, you know, I was practicing once or twice a week at home. We had a few practices together, but, like, live,

it's just such a different energy and I'm playing harder. Is that your first show, heavy show back? Yeah. It was a double header with sect and race trader. Oh, no. So also it was like, I haven't played these songs in three years.

I seriously didn't practice. I practiced maybe twice during lockdown. What? Drums at all. Drums at all. I don't practice. I met Tomaz's from Musha and I was like, hey, what do you do to practice? He was like, I don't practice.

I'd go fishing. Hang on, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, rewind. That's sick. Rewind that. Rewind that. Thomas Hart, you were just hanging out with him. The Damn Things, another band was in, with like Scott Ian and Joe from Fallboy and some other people, Keith. We, when we put the first record out, we did a bunch of like kind of metal, you know, rock festivals in Europe.

And we had one with Musuga. And he, I don't know, I guess the room was somewhere near ours. And I saw him. And I was just like, hey, man, I'm a huge fan, whatever, you know. As you would. Super cool. Yeah. I actually met him again.

He was at Race Trader Open for Refused right before the pandemic. And he came to the New York show. Fuck, yeah. Just cool. Yeah. Oh, refuse. Are they, I think maybe refused are from the same town in Sweden? They're from Umiya, and I don't know.

I believe they're from Omea. Yeah, Omea has, I feel like. I don't know. I may be cold with Luna as well Like I know there's like Something in the water Well there's something in the water in Sweden Sweden has my favorite bands

Whether it's you know In tomb dismember like sweet death Or whether it's like black metal If it's from Sweden I like it Yeah For the most part I'd agree Yeah

Like Like droney metal Cult of Luna It's also good Yeah fuck yeah It's so I feel like like, I want to phrase the question without, like, being rude.

Yeah. So how the fuck are you in Fall Out Boy, be obviously, like, super fucking into metal? Was there no, like, when Fall Out Boy was coming up, was there no point where you went, I'm going to do, did you just stay involved in heavy? Mm-hmm. So they always moved in tandem, although Fall Out Boy got incredibly bigger. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I was always doing like side projects.

I mean, Pete from Fallow Boy was in Race Trader at different points, and he's like the first vegan straight-edge person I met at a, I can't, it might have been Earth Crisis show in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where I'm from. So I've known him, you know, well before the band, and we did a ton of projects together. And then Fallow Boy was kind of just, I think at that point, uh,

we had been doing like race trader and all this political hardcore for so long. And the hardcore scene kind of took a, like a different path where it was kind of more just fashion and like not about anything as much, which, you know, makes sense because I think music is cyclical. Yeah. And, you know, being super political or super nihilist.

And so fall boy was just kind of something as a palate cleanse or something for fun. something that wasn't as serious. It was just about having a good time. And I actually wasn't in it at first. They had me fill in for a tour, then record like a demo thing, which became Take the Stirgrave. And the rest is history, I guess.

It just kind of happened the way it did. Fuck. Totally unexpectedly. That's awesome. And then you just, this is what, like, I guess I've always been in heavy bands, like always. So if I was in a band it wasn't as heavy,

I guess I would maybe try and scratch the itch. But you fucking have like 11 scratches getting itched. So many fucking side projects. Do you think that comes from needing, although if you don't practice, but like, do you think it comes from needing that aggression? Yeah, for sure.

Well, about the not practicing thing, I think for so long, I just never... I'm not slagging you off. Oh, no, no, no, I know. I know. I don't mind if you were. Like, I think just being in so many bands and I was doing, you know, at least every weekend, stuff with one of the bands or, you know, a bunch of the bands

and, you know, doing tours constantly. So I was never off. Yeah. And I think lockdown was just kind of a welcome, forced vacation because I was just so burnt out on doing it all. and not having the ability to say no, that I just didn't want to touch drums. And then when I did, it was kind of depressing,

like, well, what's the point? I'm not going to do anything. And I've never, I'm a person who got to a level that I can play in bands with, you know, the kind of music I want. I'm good with that. I don't, you know, I, I'm not the greatest drummer, and that's totally fine with me.

I, you know what I mean? Shut up. I just want to play with friends, you know. And Bohemot in a sound check. Like, you're fucking good. Come on, calm down. All right. But like, yeah, it wasn't until last summer when Fallboy did, you know, a tour again

that I was just like, man, I really wish I did because it took like two weeks to get the confidence, I guess, back to, okay, I know what I'm doing again. But, yeah, I think back to your question, I do think, you know, like, It is an itch I want to scratch in as many different ways as I can Because all the bands are, you know, a little different in ways. They're all, they're all fucking angry. Yeah. They're all fucking standing for something, which is fucking cool.

But I do think at this point as I get older and like settle down with, you know, my partner and our three dogs. And after having been home for two, two and a half years, like, I don't want to do as much. much. But at the same time, I guess, you know, I told you I did a race trader and sect had like, we did a festival like a month ago. As soon as I did that, I was like, what can I do? Like, I want to do everything. I think I from this is my therapist's answer is like, you know what you think you should be

and you're trying to be that, which is trying to calm down and do less, but it's not you. It's in you. Yes. I think that is true. I want to touch on two things before I forget. what you said don't want to talk too much about lockdown

and shit like that because in fucking 10 years hopefully no one's gonna care but you said it was a welcome break does that mean you like dealt with it good because I dealt with it

I dealt with it terribly I loved it oh my God I'm so jealous with Fallout Boy we like we're friends we hang out at shows like once in a while

we'll see a movie together go out to eat but for the most part on days off and stuff we do our own thing. And I'm, I've always been really good at like, like having,

you know, books to read, I read comics and movies and shows and games. So, like, I guess it's, you know, having a bunch of friends

that I've been friends with since I was a kid that, you know, we had Discord. We played Call a Duty a ton. Like, I just had stuff to do. And, like,

I guess, didn't, wasn't able to do it as much as I wanted before because I was always gone. So it was, it was nice to kind of reconnect with old friends and even though we couldn't see each other. I mean, I think it was, what's the word?

It's like a contradiction or like there's a duality to it. Like I was really good with it and I loved it in one way, but in the other way it was so existentially dreadful and like depressing in a way that I think, you know, will take a lot of people a long time to kind of work through because, It was wild I'm completely fucked I remember going to the grocery store

Like every time And everyone's wearing masks And just being like this is insane It's like a movie And this is like months and months and months After it started Where I'm like this This is nuts

I watched a like a talk show Just came on like a repeat on TV It was a talk show And it was from pandemic time And everyone was socially distant On this talk show A bit like what we are right now But like even then

I was like Oh my God that looks weird and that was only like last year. That's why I don't want to go on about it too much. Yeah. But the, I think maybe taking what you did, which was take time away from drums, and then like you said,

when you started to play them again, or the times that you did, it became horrible because you thought, it makes you think about the situation. That happened to me, because I was just trying, I was just trying to put out drum stuff and do drum stuff

and the podcast stuff to do with music during the pandemic. But the more I did it, the more it just underlined, like, we don't know when this is going to end and everything goes back to normal. And then something would come up that would be difficult because of the pandemic and it would blow everything like a guest or something like that. And I would just be like, oh, fuck. But if I just sat and played video games, I don't like video games.

That's my problem. I try so hard. I try so hard. I've got them. I've got Call of Duty and I'll sit there and I'll do like three hours intensive and then I won't touch it again for like six months.

I don't know what it is. Why it's not in me? I'm a gamer, so. It used to be in me, I used to be, and then it just left me. Yeah. How don't we get back into it? I mean, that's the thing. I think I could just play games forever

because I've actually... Single player or multiplayer? I mean both, but single player mostly. So I love JRP. Japanese role-playing games like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. And during lockdown stuff, I started playing through... I had a goal to play through all the Final Fantasy games because they re-released them, like Pixel remasters, of 1 through 6.

And I came in, I think, as 4 was about to be released. So then I started playing through them. I played through 1 through 7 Final Fantasy, and I just beat Dragon Quest 5 yesterday. Oh, wow. So, after 72 hours. Still going in.

Yeah. So I played Final Fantasy 1 through 7, Dragon Quest 1 through 5. I'm on 6 now. So, like, and those are all games that are like, you know, 40 to 80 hours.

See, I like, I don't know what my, it's not even beef with games. Like, Final Fantasy 7, when that came out, PS 1,

I played that to fucking death. Stuff like that, stuff that is like, deliberately fantasy, I kind of love. I've got a switch. Don't get me wrong. Like Mario Kart, I'll play Mario Kart.

I'll play, like, go back through N64 games. Fucking Banjo, Kazui, shit like that. I love all that stuff. But then, so I bought a PlayStation to when the Last of Us came out, and everyone was like, it's the best thing ever. And I just couldn't get, I was like, I just couldn't get into it. And I was so annoyed to myself because I was like, if this was a movie, I would love it. I just get frustrated at it

and it's so annoying because I see all my friends have this extra hobby. I have no hobbies other than like drums and the gym and I feel like I need one more. Yeah. And it's gonna, I want it to be games. There's a different one which also that you play which I want to talk about later on.

Yeah. Which I was thinking about maybe this more physical form of game might be more up my shirt. street but we'll talk about that later. All right. Where was I on my pandemic? Ah, fuck the pandemic. I'm off the pandemic shit.

That's fine. So, oh, fuck it. We might as well just go straight into what I was talking about because we're on a roll. Now I've lost it. Talk to me about D&D. Okay, yeah, yeah. So I don't know anything about it at all.

I don't know. It didn't really pop off here. Like when I was, at school there was like maybe maybe two or three kids or however many kids you need to play it that played it and I didn't there wasn't like an after school club

or anything like that but I always remember seeing it and when I was a kid I used to read like I mean fucking still as an adult if slightly problematic like HP Lovecraft and stuff like that like so I love all of that shit but I never got into it and then I can't remember where I saw

I read something that you play D&D and I have a couple of couple of other friends in America that play D&D. I'm like, okay, talk to me about it as if I'm a complete fucking beginner, and I have no idea. I mean, it's basically just like getting together with friends and telling the story, really. But, you know, there's built-in mechanics, depending on what system you're playing for, you know, rolling dice to figure out, you know, damage and all that kind of crap.

But it's mainly just like getting into. a story, whether it's, you know, you're all laughing or you're all super serious. Like, you can role play the character, like super, you know, crazily, like become the character, talk like a character. I don't do that. I more play it to be as funny as possible, find the funny moments. Okay. So, because I still don't even know how, like, how that, how you would even get, get to that. So just talk me through a game of it. Okay. So there's a, like a GM or DM, a Game Master or Dungeon Master. Dungeon Master, I think, is trademarked by Dungeons and Dragons.

That's a fucking cool name. So that's why there's two different names. So the Dungeon Master runs the game, and they can either run a game off of, like, a module or like a pre-written game that you can just buy, and that it has all the stats and, like, what the adventure, what the story is, what the adventure is, like, what the villains are. So they run the game. Then all the characters, all the player characters, like, roll. characters that they make up.

Or if you're playing a module, sometimes it has pre-written characters or pre-made characters. And then you just, I mean, I think it's more fun when you roll your characters up because you get to pick like, you know, what kind of character it is. Is it like, you know, a human or an elf

or a dwarf or an or an orc or whatever? Or is it like, you know, a warrior or a ranger, a mage or a spellcasts or, you know, stuff like that? And that can all kind of go with who you are as a person. I like to play Rangers a lot because I'm vegan and it seems like nature-based

and all that. And then you just the dungeon master kind of leads you through the adventure. They like tell you where you are, where you're starting. They make that up or that's written down for them. Either. Like there are,

you can buy pre-made adventures or download them for free or whatever or I have a lot of friends who write stuff for you to play. uh that's cool that's where every time i've seen it i'm like this seems like creative it's not just like that's the whole point the point is to sit around and kind of make up a story as you go you know that's fucking awesome and then how do you win i mean you don't you don't you don't just kind of i mean you win by like it let it depends on what the the story is like if you're just

going into a dungeon and trying to clear it and beat the main bad guy or whatever. So I'm really sorry for like cutting in because I'm in my head I'm trying to piece it together. But like so how do the dice rolls like so let's say you do need to go to the dungeon

and beat this big fucking BDSM Dragon Man Half Man, Half Dragon Orgy, Fuckfest Thing. How do you all of the dice to do that, to win. So I mean, normally you're just walking around exploring,

and sometimes, like, the dungeon master will have you roll to, like, explore, you know, let's say a wall to see if you could climb it or something. Like, do you have the right skills? So you'll have, like, you know, strength, agility, I can't remember, charisma. Like, I can't remember the other ones. But, like, like, it'll be based on different skills that you have. Can you solve this puzzle, like a trap door or a locked door that has a trap in it?

Can you like open the door without triggering the trap? Can you disarm the trap? Do you forget to say I have, I want to check for traps? And then you open a door and then there's a trap and you potentially die. So that's part of it is just exploring. Then the second part is if you find, you know, the bad guys and then you have to fight. then you roll for initiative. So usually for D&D, it's a 20-sided die.

And you roll for initiative, highest number, a 20, which is like a natural crit or a one is like a natural failure, I guess. So that's the worst, you know, natural failure, the worst thing happens or a crit, which is the best kind of success. Something extra good happens. So, but for initiative, you're just rolling to see what order you go in.

So the higher you roll, you go first. And then when you're actually fighting, you have, you know, a sword, let's say. So your sword, you have to roll, or you have to roll against, you know, the enemy's AC armor class or, you know, whatever it is. To be able to hit them, you have to roll a 15 or above, which you don't know. The dungeon master knows. So you roll the D20. And sometimes you have like a weapon that has a plus three. So you roll

Or I don't I'm I haven't played for a minute No you're making sense Because in my head It's piecing it together When I hear like

Or I see on like fucking Stranger Things or whatever Someone's playing D&D And they say like the plus three And the roll So that way if you roll a 15 You get a plus three Now you got a 15

Now you hit that So that's like Final Fantasy Now It's the same thing Except Final Fantasy calculates it for you. Yeah.

But like, then after that, you roll your damage with, which is whatever your weapon is, it's like a 2D8, let's say, or 2D10. So you have, you know, different sided dye that you roll however many and then add that up. Sometimes that'll have a plus to it or, you know, some potion or spell that is on you will give you a plus. And that's the damage. You saying this is like, I mean. So some people play just a player character.

or tell a story. Some people play because they love the numbers. They love crunching numbers and figuring out how to like min-max is what it's called, like your character to be as strong as it possibly can, which is the same for like, you know, role-playing games on video games. Yeah.

And is that the same as like Magic the Gathering? Like, is that this? How is... The Gathering's cards. Yeah, but the same concept with the numbers and shit. Not really. I mean, it is in a way because... Because I know people to play that.

don't understand it either. I mean, I don't play magic, but I guess I used to, like when it first came out for one minute, you want to have the best deck. Do you beef magic? Because it sounds like you might beef magic. No. I mean, it's not my thing, but I just never got into card games a ton. But you want to have, like, the best deck, which I guess is a similar thing.

You're just, it works different because it's a little more random, I think. I mean, I guess rolling dice is random, too, but there's something to me tactically, tactically about. And I think with like the card. shit why that maybe hasn't resonated with me either. It's like you can buy your way to being really good. You can't buy your way to being fucking good at rolling a dice. And it can be super expensive like magic or Pokemon or whatever because you want to get the best cards and they're worth a ton.

But like you can just buy the best deck. Whereas Dungeons and Dragons, you just need the rulebook, one person to have the rule book. Or you could download it on the internet or go to a library. Like, that's all you need. The rest is in your mind. You can play with minis, like miniature characters.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Is there a board or? But you don't have to. You can just play in your mind. So, like, during lockdown, I had a group of friends. We played Call a Duty a ton and we played Dungeons and Dragons once or twice a week. How did you meet up for that? And you just played on Discord.

Nice. So we all just got in Discord. Then there's different, like, apps on the computer. I can't remember the one. we used role 20, I guess, and it will have like a map that you all play. It's kind of clunky or was then. And then you kind of see it on the map.

We stopped playing with it at some point and then just started explaining what we're doing. But it's just super fun because you're just, you know, messing around with friends, like your kids. Yeah, like the creative side of it plus the competitive side, I think I'm in. How many people,

would you need to play it? I'd say bare minimum, like four. I don't have four friends. Five is good. It's because you want one DM and then four players maybe. So what's the, I'm not going to spend a whole fucking thing talking about Dungeon and Dragons. The DM is just chilling and showing everyone else the game, though.

He's not like he or she or they is not like part of the... No. They're just the... They control the bad guys or whatever. if there's NPCs, like non-player characters that come in. So it's not boring for them, is what I'm asking? It's probably the most fun for them, because they have to do prep work to get ready,

to know what the story is, know where you're starting, know where it could possibly go. Though the whole point is to go where you don't think it will go. How long is a game? My last question is how long is a game? I feel like three hours probably at minimum to, like you could do an hour and a half, but you kind of want to let it go,

but you could play six, nine hours. You could play as long as you want. It's fucking awesome. But that's the point. You kind of prep like how long will this be? The campaign. Yeah. The campaign is the macro.

Okay. The maybe the, what's it broken up into? I blank on simple words sometimes. Oh, me too. But just like the adventure of the day or whatever. Oh, so you play like one game, but then that's part of the larger thing. Yeah, yeah.

You'll just do like a section of a story. So usually the DM will be like before their prep work will be this is what they think the natural cutoff point will be. Like my gaming group, we dicked around so much. We took forever to like do stupid shit because we were just joking around

and, you know, like laughing and whatever. So it took forever. So we'd oftentimes have to cut it. before I think the DM plan, but, you know, a good DM's kind of good at, they're adaptive, they're good at working with the personalities of their players, I guess. I'm stuck. I'm going to figure it out and I'm going to play a game.

Well, there's a lot. There's like mothership is one I love that's like a zine. They're actually doing a second edition pretty soon that they kick started last year, I guess. And it's like kind of a sci-fi like aliens. where it's like super brutal. It's all single, uh, single adventures,

like single games where, where usually, it's kind of like a totally, a lot of the big adventures written for it are based on like, you know, there's some corporation that wants to, that's mining some space colony. And then there's like crazy aliens that are super deadly.

And usually you die. So I've played a few times and every time we died in amazing ways where like, you know, you shoot through the, the side of the spaceship and everything blows up or, you know, and then it's just done. Yeah, but it's fun. It's, you just, you're making shit up and having a good time. Mother ship's my favorite. I think it's super easy to play.

It's super rules light. So it's, it's not super clunky in the, like, you don't have to learn a ton. You can kind of just pick it up and play. And then there's stuff like Pathfinder that's pretty rules heavy. There's a lot to learn. I'm going with mothership. I'm starting with mothership. But I played a...

So I used to go to like gaming conventions a lot. And I went to Gen Con, which is one of the bigger ones in the States at least. I think one of the original ones in the world, which comes from Geneva Convention. Because Lake Geneva is where Gary Gygax, who created Dungeons and Dragons is from. so the Lake Geneva Convention, which is where he used to be. And then it moved to Milwaukee where I'm from. And then it moved to Indianapolis because of hotel stuff and all that. That's a big move.

Yeah. Geneva to Milwaukee. But, well, Lake Geneva, which is in Wisconsin. Oh, that's why I'm like, okay. Because you're like Geneva Convention, Lake Geneva Convention. In my head. adventure, yeah. Okay.

Okay, that's not far then. Sorry, my geography in the States is terrible. It's all good. But I played at a Gen Con, a Star Wars role-playing game with this, like, game master, which is the non-D-D version of a... You're not going to get sued for saying... Yeah. Yeah.

So the GM we're playing with is like one of the best GMs who's ever run a game for me. It was unbelievable. And it felt, it was a Star Wars game, and it felt like a movie, like we were all in a movie the way that he ran it. It was... If you get someone who's good at it, who's good at running a game, it's amazing.

I'm sorry. Because you're just, you're just like picturing it through your mind's eye, like as you're playing. I feel like... I feel like... I feel like you lose that as...

Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. I think I've lost that. But it's in there because I love fucking fantasy shit. Yeah. That's why I love fantasy. That's why I love comics.

A lot of the writers I love, love like Grant Morrison, who's from Scotland. Grant Morrison, there's a, so do you know Daniel P. Carter? You must know Daniel P. Carter from the Radio on Rock Show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, like him and Josh Middleton from architects always turn me on to some Grant Morrison shit. I'm not sure if Grant Morrison's been on Dan's podcast, but I think he was like

due to or something. It's like a fucking super... Some of those comic book guys, like the OG ones, are like super interesting characters. Oh, yeah. Grant Morrison's one of my favorite writers of All Time up there with like Alan Moore, but also super interesting.

They have a substack now that's... They're putting out, like, comics through, but also talking about, like, kind of a retrospective of their career and their bibliography. And they just did one about, like, they just did like a question and answer thing that lasted like five posts, you know, pretty long. And it was... Wait, what's the substack?

A substack is like a blog kind of application or whatever you want to call it, site where a lot of comic writer. So substack and a push to, I think, you know, gain more market show or whatever, got a bunch of, had a grant for a bunch of... of comic writers that I love, like Jeff LeMeyer, who's from Canada, who did, what's it called? Sweet Tooth, which is a Netflix show. I haven't seen it.

Like a deer antler kid. Kind of actually came out around the same time as sugar going down, which is kind of weird, which is a video of Fall Boys, which had an Amber kid. I know that song. Come on. Give me that.

But they kind of came out around the same time, which is very weird. But like Jeff LaMeyer has, Jonathan Hickman, who's a comic writer I love, Grant Morrison, but, Grant Morrison's, James Tinian.

Grant Morrison's, Swamp thing. Is that right? Alan Moore. Grant Morrison's Animal Man, Invisibles. Alan Moore is Watchman. Yes.

And Veefer Vendera. Yeah, I've read like, again, not a mass, I was a, when I was a kid, I was massively, comics and I read the big ones when they came out and then again I just dropped off you know what

I think I got the actual depression and then everything dropped off and that was it the timeline like syncs up where I just like I just don't care about anything anymore except music because it can make me more depressed yeah true beam it in um let's stay on like I'm sorry for you just teaching me a million things oh it's fine but Grant Morrison and Alan Moore are both super interesting and like they're both magicians in weird different ways but it kind of speaks and grant morrison in this substack Q&A talks a lot about his magical thinking and magical process and what he's into and it's it kind of speaks to that like creativity and imagination and like you know like not losing touch with that this you know this thing that's such a human experience like their career

of art as a magical process. Kind of. Is something that I've talked before with Daniel Picarder. And I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure Grant Morrison has been on his podcast. Yeah. Because I remember him talking about, like, I know Alan Moore had been.

Yeah. That was an amazing episode. Yeah. Unbelievable. Just the way he speaks and everything about him. And he's like, I'm sure in that podcast, I'm going to talk about another podcast while we're on this podcast. But it is a great podcast.

Yeah, it is. Someone who isn't me with Daniel Picard. But just like, I'm pretty sure it's the Alan Moore one and he's talking about, I try to apply it to drumming sometimes, which is fucking sounds lame to even to try and say it because drumming is such a different thing. But Alan Moore is talking about like putting the intention into every single fucking stroke or every single piece of his art and like manifesting things that have. nothing to do with the art while he's doing it.

I think that's... But that's what I love about... My favorite drummers are that, you know? Like Chuck Biscuits, the first four Danzig records. Yeah. It's like pretty fucking simple. But just that fill in mother,

that's one of the greatest fills of all time. It's a fill that I could never... In my life... If it comes on in a rock club, every single person in the club plays the fill. Yeah, but you know what I mean? Yeah. I could never write a fill like that.

I just, it's, it's so high level. Don't make me start, don't make me start unveiling my knowledge of Fallout Boy, but there are bills like that in Fallout Boy, and people also do those ones. Well,

I'm too close to it, I guess. Okay. Okay. So while I was making a lovely water, you told me Grant Morrison may have been straight edge. Yep. back in the day

and then we talked about just you guys didn't listen to this because you weren't here but we talked about how like maybe when you got into magic you got mushroomy and then you said I'm all for that but you are straight edge

yeah what's the deal? I don't know I just have an appreciation for mind expanding drugs but you don't do so how long have you been straight age uh shit since 1990 the five, four, five.

How old were you then? How old am I now? How old were you then? Then? And I'll figure it out. I think I was 15 and I'm 42. And you went straight edge from having done stuff? Yeah.

I was drinking and smoking weed. And then you got into the straight edge movement specifically? I mean, it was basically I had a falling out with my mom. Because my dad died when I was five So I was really I've always been Really close to my mom

And she found I must have hid like a A weed pipe And like a book And she found it Classic moves Yeah And she was like

Basically sent me to drug counselor And was super disappointed And that really hurt me And that drug counselor Person would always test me And I'd always fail Because I didn't care And then

Wow that's serious shit Yeah But I was into hardcore like Revelation Records and early victory records Earth Crisis at the time. So I knew about straight edge. And it was, it framed it in this way that was cool to me. And then I just remember,

I think because I knew I hurt my mom. I was like, fuck it, I'm going to be straight edge. Because I have a really addictive personality. I'm all or nothing. So I told this drug counselor, you know,

I'm going to be straight edge. I'm not going to do anything. And they were just like, yeah, I don't believe you. You're a liar. And I mean, I'll always remember that because it has driven me ever since. And you never did it since then.

Yeah. Just as a fuck you to this counselor. Not just as that, but yeah. Partially. But I mean, I love straight edge. It's such an important thing in my life. I do think I'd be dead if I wasn't. But I do, I don't have a problem with drugs or people who do drugs recreationally

on a basis that works for them, that they're comfortable with, that's sustainable, that's not damaging to their life. I do have, you know, an understanding of addiction that's not like from a judgmental vantage point. I understand it's, you know,

there's, you know, a paper thin wall between a lot of people and falling into addiction because life is fucking hard. especially now. Yeah, especially now as material conditions worsen and will continue to worsen. And, you know, I'm kind of a nihilist. I don't think in my lifetime things will ever get better. I think they will only get worse.

I agree. So I can totally understand, like, how drugs can be a way through that for people, which may not be the best thing, but I'm not, you know, who am I to judge as long as, you know, and I have friends, you know, who struggle with addiction and, stuff like that. And I definitely don't think it's as simple as like, just be straight to just don't do it. You know,

I understand it's a lot more nuanced than that. Do you have any point? Did you have any point, particularly like it may be in the pandemic where you thought, because I'll be honest with you, there's no way on earth I could have roaredogged the pandemic without drugs.

Like I just couldn't have done it. I fully escaped. I mean, arguably my brain is in a far worse place for it yeah but like man fair play if you just just raw dog bad shit you didn't have a single no i mean i think for me at this point it's not even a thing i think about yeah maybe i guess people who maybe quit before the pandemic yeah bigger chance of relapsing i make myself sound like a drug efficient arlo here i'm not really i love mushrooms like Yeah.

Huge fan. I guess that's the thing. I love drugs for my friends who love drugs. That's, I don't, I don't hate them. But I mean, there's definitely a straight edge side of me where I,

you know, there's, I'll be some function with the ban, and there'll be someone who's wasted, and I'm just like, I mean, that's like, Toma Gitarist is exactly the same.

And to be honest, that's, I think that's every sober person on earth when someone else is wasted. Yeah. I get it. Did the veganism come at the same time? Did that come later?

Maybe a year later. And you've been vegan since then? Yeah, 96. What a fucking mental fortitude on you. 96, that's like prime earth crisis time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Fucking hell.

So that leads me on quite nicely too. You're an avid gym guy. Yep. Things I want to talk about for the fucking boring listener, watcher, like blah, blah, blah, we'll talk about that. Things I want to know. Yep. What's your eating like for like?

So let's start with what do you train for? What do you train? Let's start with that. And we'll go, so like, I think I've seen you're a CrossFit guy. Crossfitter. And did it start from doing CrossFit? You went from zero to crossfit or? Yeah, pretty much.

I think I started with, there's a gym in Salt Lake City called Jim Jones. I know the one. Started by this guy, Mark Twight, who was like an alpine climber, which. Oh, shit, you were telling me about that earlier. So I, the alpinist. I know who that guy is. Is that the guy from the fucking, is he in the documentary? No, he's not.

Oh, right. But, okay. But his, so I, I wasn't really working out or into fitness or anything. and I just kind of noticed like, I probably should start. And this was probably 2008, 2009, like right before Fall Boy went on hiatus for a few years was when I got into it.

And I have a friend who was, like, getting into becoming a trainer and, like, kind of learning about all these different things. But it was really Mark Twight who spoke to me because he, like, comes from punk rock, wrote a lot of, like, essays on his blog. that were super kind of punk like attitude.

And I just, that really spoke to me. And he was actually there for kind of the beginnings of CrossFit. He was friends with Greg Glassman. And I think they had a falling out because they're both big personalities. And Jim Jones at the time I got into it hated CrossFit. But was also very similar, like a functional fitness, like approach to fitness.

but also more sports specific than CrossFit was at the time at least. So I was kind of turned off to CrossFit at that time while doing Jim Jones stuff, which is functional fitness. So it's very similar movements. And then at some point, I think when the band started up again in full force, I was looking for a gym that wasn't like a Globo Gym that I could do functional fitness stuff. And there was a CrossFit gym. So I just went into the CrossFit Gym.

I'm thinking, you know, fuck this, this stuff's super easy and lame. And it was a workout that on the whiteboard looked pretty simple. And it just destroyed me. It fuck you up, doesn't it? Yeah. And I just remember it was CrossFit Hollywood, which I don't even know if it exists anymore, but I think I was there recording or doing something with the band, getting ready to tour, I don't remember.

But I just remember this must have been 2012, 2013. I just remember the community being so cool. Like, you know, everyone cheering on the last person and like just this camaraderie to it that was just like what hardcore was to me. And that, which is what really drew me to CrossFit. And like, and that kind of changed my whole my life. And I mean, Jim Jones changed my life. And Bobby Maximus, who was my first coach at Jim Jones, was super instrumental. instrumental in that. And then

finding CrossFit, which was just a community where I can drop in, you know, this whole run I've been dropping into places. And there's just something really cool and the community aspect is what I love about it. And I do think it's different. It's gone, like

Greg Glassman sold it to this guy, Eric Rosa. There's a bunch of controversy and stuff that led to that. And I think it's a little more like the business of it's a little more corporatized, but the community is still there, like on the individual, like, gym level. So. When you play, like,

when you do it on tour, how often are you going? Like, are you going every day? Three times a week? So for a while I was doing like five days a week. And then, I don't know. at some point in 2016, 2017, I burnt out pretty bad

because I was doing like three hour training sessions. Five days a week? Like, yeah, five days a week. Basically, like I was following a program that was for CrossFit Games athletes, which are like the best of the best. And I just was so burnt out. My body couldn't do it anymore.

I felt like shit. And so I cut it to like an hour maybe an hour and a half at most and then cut it down to four days a week just because I'm older it's what happens as you age and then especially on tour

the last tour I was doing four days a week like my full sessions and then I like pinch something in my back because I was just so tight I think I know exactly why it happened because I have my own gear

with like training equipment that we bring on tour with us so I'll just work out at the venue and it's essentially like everything like a box a rower uh air bike like you know barbell weights that's fucky the dream that's amazing it's great but uh i was doing a deadlift day and it was a pretty heavy deadlift day and and i'll usually be like right by wait what's a heavy deadlift day come on let's get numbers let's get a number there's a lot of gym people that listen to this uh my max is 375 i think pounds.

Nice. So I don't know what that is. So 405 is 180 kilos. So 375 would be 170, 165 or something like that. Yeah, there you go. So sorry, so I'd break up that. I needed to know the fucking number. So I was like pulling extra heavy because, you know,

there's security people walking around. I want to look cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think I might have done like 340 or something, and it was such a, a mistake. I hadn't toured in three years. I'm like not in shape for touring like I was and not a great idea to be pulling super heavy on a show day. It was on a show day. And I think later I paid for it. And it was brutal. Like I could barely move. Like when I was playing if I like the day it happened,

I did like a 185 squat, which isn't that heavy for me. And I just felt it. pop and I could barely get it back to the rack and I had to call our security guy to help me like strip the weight. It was out of hotel gym too. And then help walk me back to my room. And I had to play that night. Luckily we had a massage therapist there who's like a rugby player and like did PT for like athletes. So they knew what they were doing and they kind of fucked me up but like got me so I could move. But when I did fills, I'd have to fully. move my entire body. I couldn't move my trunk.

I'd have to move my legs too. That's fucking insane. It just hurt so bad. So since then, I'm only doing three days a week, usually. Do you find you play better on those days? Yeah, I do actually. I got to the point where I trained.

I have a back injury from last year. And if I don't do something before we play, then I'm too rigid. It doesn't hurt. It's just I'm super, super rigid. I'm a lot looser. I'm like addicted to if you get the balance right like of like a you know a 75% intensity workout and then a show later that day there's nothing like it for like just being fucking fluid but funny you said that about the deadlift injury on tour bringing it all full circle do you know Josh James from Stiction Guns and fucking every other band another one who has a billion bands so he's the reason I know who Jim Jones is and all those

kind of workouts. So Stray and Stickger Guns have toured together a bunch of times and one time Stig had their squat rack and Barbell and me and Josh would just train every day and that's when I first got like an introduction to those kind of CrossFit circuits

that fuck you up and I was like oh okay sick and then we were at the Palladium in Worcester I remember it like it was yesterday and we thought it would be a fun idea to put 225 on on the bar for dead lifts which if anyone's

from the from Europe is 100 kilos so not you know not an insane weight but then we did a pyramid with some so one person did 10 reps while the other person held plank and then

they swapped 10 reps plank and then down to nine yeah so it ends up by the end of it you're doing such an unbelievably insane amount of volume that that night it wasn't like there was no pop or any kind of injury like that but i couldn't play like i was going to hit a crash on one and my leg was like delayed it was it was what i found out the next day is my hamstrings was so fucking fried yeah i couldn't lift my leg up to fucking do the thing because the hamstrings were burnt, the rest of the tour, my legs were fucked.

Like, I was just about getting away with it, but they were fucked. I've never felt anything like it. And that's when I learned my lesson. Again, deadlifting, just don't go that heavy on tour. But I fucking love deadlifting. Because I feel like tours, what's the word? We're just keeping your fitness at a level. Yeah.

You just want maintenance. Yeah. Tours just maintenance work. You're not trying to make gains. I mean, if you're feeling extra good on a day or something maybe. But like, yeah, when I got into Prague on this run, I went into a cross-a-jim that first day and we did pretty heavy squats.

And I kind of pushed it a little bit because I remember there was someone there that we're going to share a bar and they were like, what do you do? And I was like, uh, whatever, you know, I think my max is $2.95.

So I just said my max is this. And they were just like, oh, you can do that. And they looked strong, like stronger than me. So I wasn't even trying to brag. I was just trying to be like,

I can, I can lift a little bit too. And they were just like, I only go up to like half that. And I think that's probably just because they haven't pushed it yet. Yeah. But so I went heavier than maybe I should have. And then the next day I went in too

And did a workout And it was Like a lot of lunge work A lot of box step-ups So it was again, all legs And then that night Or I think the next day we played Rock for the People or whatever it is

And we had to add four songs That we haven't played in forever With no practice Just haven't played them My fucking worst nightmare And one of them's Thriller Which has some double bass and a lot of like

and a lot of like da-da-da-cha-da-da-da-da-da-da-to-ch-ch-tah and I just could not do it that's it that's the hamstring fry I was just like I just kept fucking it up because my legs were so burnt and my drum tech is Brandon that Brandon Morgan

the drummer of Miser Signals who's one of the best drummers I know he nearly joined straight from the path before me I don't know what happened but for some reason for some reason I got it but he's like an unbelievable drum

Oh, he's amazing. And any time I mess up, I just look and I'm like, yeah, I suck. Whatever. I went as far as to do this. So I did this for a different reason for like, so last August I broke my back. And it was like, damn. It was a T8 fracture. So like not, it was basically the most minor way you can possibly ever break your back.

And I need to go and get like a bones can because it's like you shouldn't really be fucking. breaking your, you know, you're young, you shouldn't really be breaking your back. Yeah. So one of the things that happened as a result of that was, you know, like a, just like a, boom, ba-boom. Yeah. So there's a lot of back involved in getting that first hit in. And I just stopped being able to do it. And it was just like, it's just like, not even pain, it just was locked up.

So when we tracked, I had fucking real bad. trouble with like easy parts i was playing the intro to gear team which is fucking like insanely hard and fast and that was all fine and then i was trying to go boomt bah boom and i was fucking i was fucking up so i basically learn our whole set because we had a tour straight after that i basically learned our whole set two-footing like really easy stuff which is hard to do at first so like what you're saying like a boom boom bab bum boom boom boom really hard to two-foot that because it's just too slow. Yeah.

But now I've got it, I'm like, I could really go hard at the gym now because I've got a backup, like secret, easy way to play the set. And I had it on our last tour where I started the tour and I had to do this two-foot thing because my back was fucking up. But it's my first tour,

second tour ever with a drum tech. So about halfway through the tour when I'm not having to, you know, pack my gear up and do all this shit, it was like, oh, my back's better and I could go back to the single-footing stuff. But now in my head, I'm like, I could really hit some maxes on tour.

Just play like a pussy afterwards. I mean, after that happened, I was thinking about I should learn a double foot just in case. It's honestly... Because I've never done, like, you know, like, what's the kind of music that Weird Al plays? Weird Al? Yeah.

What, like comedy music? No, no, no. polka, like a poca black model beat. I never, you know, a lot of like Frost or whoever I think do it double, right? Yeah, I do mine double as well. I always do it single just because I feel like it's more powerful for me. And I just can count it better. I got super lazy and learn.

In fact, it was actually. But I really want to learn because I feel like you can get more power and go faster. Especially. Maybe save yourself a little bit. Especially if you don't, obviously you don't play with triggers. I don't play with triggers. Frost plays with triggers. Like,

and a lot of, a lot of other, which is absolutely fine. Inferno from Bohemia plays with triggers. Oh my God. What a perfect fucking segue into the bit about drums.

It's like I'm a professional. But when you two foot, that's the other thing I know is, especially blast beats, you can fucking hammer into that kick drum. And you just, especially you've got like a sound guy that knows what they're doing.

He knows that to make the kick sound really good. You need to gate it. And the minute you try and play really fast, it doesn't come through. But the blasting, I saw Shannon Lucas play with the Black Dahlia murder in like 2000. I can't remember.

I thought it was all one foot. And then it was like maybe 2007 or something. Between 2008 to 2010, I saw Shannon play with Black Dalia and he was two-footing. But it was so clean. I was like, oh, it just looks fucking easy. Like, because you're just going like that. So I sat and I learned it.

and then now I just there's a tempo where that's too slow like a 160 to 180 but once it's in there that's the problem with me it's a little too slow my feet don't want to go and you don't want to practice

too slow they get choppy you know I don't know why because you don't want to practice you've already said that that's exactly it yeah fuck yeah I mean I've been trying to learn just between

which I'm not good at. Oh, so... Because I saw Todd Suckerman. Yeah. Phil for his, I think it's his solo thing or something. No, actually, it's on the new sticks record. And there's a fill where it's like... And then it's...

But it's so easy. The split linear, Phil. Yes. Yeah. But I can't do that. I don't do that. even though a traditional blast beat is essentially that, unless I'm my right foot and right hand can work together,

but not opposite. I'm going to raise you. The perfect culmination of everything we just talked about just then. Last year, I learned how to do those fills. Right hand, left foot, left hand, right foot. Because I did, like again because just because I was like I can't do everything with my right foot anymore I was like I'm going to learn this split and it ends up once you get it I was getting the

problem I think they called it the climbing the ladder feel because it's that's yeah yeah yeah but I was getting it wrong because I was trying to go right foot right hand right foot left hand left foot but then Alex Ruding I told me you go right hand left foot left hand right foot so it's and you can you can just play the most insane fast fills. And all you're doing is this. They're so easy. Yeah. And it just goes.

Yeah. But that's the way to do it. If you want to practice it and you don't need like, you don't need a kit or anything. It's just getting used to that. And I'll go one step further and do this as a full fucking drum lesson on the thing. When I couldn't get it, the easiest thing to do to get it, the first kick was the hardest thing.

So what I would do is I would just play the hand. like right left right right right uh okay even slow because I thought it's going to be really fast

and then just put that one in because getting that one getting that left in is already really hard once you can get that one then I put in

the second right and then I'll just do that again give myself enough time to think about it yep and then once I could do that I put the next two in and then

that's brilliant and then it took you know what I was practicing it for like every time I was just tapping or doing it doing whatever and I was like I'm never going to get this and then we did a sound check somewhere in Europe I mean there's a fill first world problem child at the end of that song there's like a improvised solo section and just while we were doing it in sound check I was like I wonder if I can do that fill and I ended up I was like oh it's too fast oh I try it and it's like go go get get but with the kicks underneath so it just went and I fucking nailed it

and I just went oh It just changes everything. And then the muscle memory was just in. Yeah. So now that's the one part of the set where I'd do it. And it's got to the point where people know that bit's coming. So there's a little bit of pressure. And I get a little bit of adrenaline.

And then there was one time at Unified Festival in Australia where, because once it got out, like I was doing that fill for the drum nerds. Because we can drum nerd on this thing. It's like, it's a cool feel. Yeah. Once it got out, I was doing it, then people would be just filming that part. And then I would share that to my story.

And then it got to the point where there was a time in Australia that a guy filmed it. And then his friend filmed him filming it. And then someone else filmed him, filming him, filming my film. And I just managed to put all three on the fucking Instagram. That's awesome. But that's the way to do it. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

If you forget that. My current warm up routine is Alex, rooting her warm-up routine. I love that warm-up routine. He's one of my favorite dramas. He's so sick. He's the fucking absolute man. I love that you love it.

He's been on this podcast twice. But just his, the paradigal, five minutes and then max minutes. My guy. I've talked about this so many times. And it's so good for endurance. Yeah. It's changed my life. Because I was,

I was so aimless with my warm-ups before. And I feel like this is just so focused. it's not a lot to think about it's so funny that you say that because i talk about the alice rooting a warm-up and how it fucking saved my life with drumming especially with feet his feet warm-up one yeah yeah and like he messaged me about it because i was like i i can't fucking do this it's so fucking long and he was like just hit really lightly when you do it and even just doing that as a warm-up hitting you know just the endurance one which is like five minutes and you just pick his speed he he starts at 180 which is like fuck you

unbelievable yeah i start it like if i'm if i start it at 140 and it feels pretty good then i just do that but like 140 kick for five minutes it's fucking done it's like yeah it's like a lot of leg but then when you get up to those top speeds what he told me one thing about it where he was like don't listen to what it sounds like because you're just warming up the muscles and the minute I did that like I have to do it before we play shows now or else I play like shit

the guys are fucking me too mini little genius he is gonna do you ever speak to him do you know him at him he is gonna love this he's like he's been on this podcast

twice he is the fucking man he's uh I tried to get him on um try to get him on Twitch actually because he's got this fucking he's one of those like

he seems like a digital drummer if you know what I mean like he's got all the you know he's on the fucking internet and stuff but when you talk to him about his actual setup is actually very analog I was like man you got all the shit you just come on Twitch and then he was like what do you mean and I was like you know you just plug this and he was like I don't have that he goes he goes around every camera there's a memory card in there he does all the fucking shit and then he puts it on I actually I didn't so if people there might be people Pamela get away there might be people

listen to this because they're fallout boy fans and not know anything about me so let me tell me story about me but me and alex originally had a falling out we had beef originally um so i was in a band called the harp machine which was progressive technical death metal essentially um and i left before i recorded the record engineered it and played the drums on it and i left before it came out, I had an argument with one of the other guys in the band. And I left for it. And what they did,

and I think Alex was just like a vessel in this because he didn't have a band at the time. He just left the faceless. And he joined the band, and they faked a video where it looked like he recorded the album. And then in the album, it says that Alex Ruedinger drums,

and then in the liner notes, really small. It says drums written and performed by Craig Reynolds, right? Which I know for a fact that Alex didn't have like anything to say with that

but I, you know, we like semi had beef over that or whatever, but it doesn't matter because he left the band for the same fucking reasons that I left the band

and then we became friends afterwards because he left and I was like, what did I fucking tell you? But then we've been fucking boys ever since. And I originally didn't believe that so I got a thing on on YouTube which is like like in the bodybuilding world it's called naty or not where I'll just sort of watch a drama and I'll be like just trying to assess if

they're natural or if they're juiced like if they're editing their shit and I always thought Alex Ruding was like there's no way anyone's that fucking perfect and then Nolly um the producer Nollie sent me raw stems of an Alex Rudinger he was playing an obscure song and he was like bro you need to see this and I was like what is it and he sent me and he was like put these in a proto pro tool session at this tempo and zoom in and I put them on and I was like listening to it just sounds like fucking program drums put them on zoom in and I'm like oh my god this is real a human being is doing this

yeah couldn't fucking believe it that was like the first time I was like Because that's what I thought too With the faceless and then conquering dystopia I'm just like This is all edited and comped And I'm sure it is on the records But his videos like They're real

He's unbelievable yeah He just did a Hawkins song That man's a very sick Yeah Here's the other one that I was 100% sure I love how we've seamlessly started talking about drums Because that's what I had to do next Yeah

Here's another one who I was absolutely sure fake. And I've told him, he won't come on the podcast because I think I've told everyone on the podcast that I don't like his band before. So it's like, he's not going to come on here. But I'll go out there and say,

this guy, I couldn't believe it either, which is that guy, Chris Turner, who's in that Ocean's 8 Alaska band. Do you ever seen him play the drums? I was, I watched one video and I was like, absolutely bullshit, bullocks. No fucking way I'm not having this. This is not real.

And then I heard from like other producers, producer friends who are like, I trust their opinion. They were like, hey man, you ever seen that Chris Tanna guy? I said, yeah, it's bullshit. Like, it's fucking program. And they were like, no, bro, it's not. And I sat and I went through one of his videos at like half speed. Fucking, I went as far as like ripping the audio out

and putting it into a fucking door to just look and see. And then at one point it just like, I was like, oh my God, this is fucking real. And then I went to see them. We played some festival. I don't like, music I don't like the band. but he is the precision is absolutely fucking mind melting

there's a video he did like him and Thomas Lang doing that and they go like there's sections where one of them's just playing the hands and the other one's playing the feet and then they swap and it is fucking so precise but he's another one I was like I don't believe it

because there's so much doctoring going on I feel like I may have seen that that's the kid and it's fucking I literally couldn't believe it. Him and Rudy, I was like, no,

there's no fucking way. And then that rude, the Rudy one actually inspired me to stop editing my videos because back in the day when, I'm talking like 2010, when I was in a death metal band

and everyone was doing it. Like, it's more of a play through where you're showing what happens and everyone fixes it. And then what would happen with me is like, people would be like giving me praise

for these videos. And in my head, I'm like, well, I sat and gritted that. So what, what I didn't fucking deserve. And then the imposter syndrome started coming.

Yeah. And then when Rudy did that, I was like, you know what? I'm never editing a video again. And as a result, there was like one of the first few videos after that, I did a fucking,

I did a clinic and Vic Furfel there and they filmed it. And I like, fucking wasn't that good on a couple of songs. And they were like, can we put these up? They were fine with it. And I was like, you know what?

Yeah. Because in my head, that'll make me get better. Yeah. And then now I have that. like analog thing where I do all of my drum playthrus on Twitch live. So I just have this little thing that switches through the things. The mix is already on the MacBook and then I just press record and it goes.

And if it sucks, it sucks. Yeah. It's like to tape but digital. Yeah. More people need to do that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you'll get better. Or you'll hate yourself.

Yeah. Which is what I did and then I got better and it was fine. I'm on the drum thing now Are you okay to talk about drums? You must be I don't practice You don't like practicing Or anything like that

I do like practicing If I get myself to do it Okay We'll do the tiny talk about drums And then I want to do your Dream Festival Okay yeah This is what I want to know

Are you playing DW at the moment? Yep How long have you been with DW? Might be like four years years now. What was it before then? C&C. See, that's what I remember the old C&C.

Was it C&C that back in the day they had a finish that was like duct tape and melted? Because I maintain this as a memory that C&C had it. And everyone that I spoke to is a C&C guy. Like Dustin from Walls of Jericho used to be a C&C guy. And I was like, you remember this finish? It was like, no. I had a company recreated for me And it looked fucking amazing

It looked like an alien queen drum And I think I invented it from a dream I had That CNC did it I've got like a 13 by 7 42 plice nair And it's got black gaff tape Which was blow torched and then lacquered And I thought I got the idea from C&C

But I fucking didn't Damn And now you play Now you're playing DW Yeah And DG DW is like I got two drum companies

I got Tama and I got DW and I don't care about anyone else I kind of care about like the boozy ones but in terms of like the companies Oh yeah for sure I mean DW is the one I grew up loving but then Tama as well

because Lars played Tama Dave Lombardo played Tama you know what I mean? Like you're definitely a Lars fan I guess Charlie Benner Dante plays Salma or did. Oh, I love Lars. Dude, I was watching,

I've been in like a black album kick. So of I! Which I think is an, I think it's a masterpiece album and I think Unforgiven's one of the greatest songs ever written. So I've been watching a lot of live stuff, mainly like live shit, binge and purge. And...

Fucking awesome. That was the peak of their powers. Like, Lars was so good then. So fucking sick. Any kind of... They were all so good. He kind of invented the snare and a crash at the same time. Yeah. Like, at the very least, like, he made it a fucking thing.

Yeah. Well, I mean, he's obviously a brilliant musician because he's, you know, unbelievably important for the songwriting process of Metallica and was a huge part of it and probably still is. So, like, regardless of what anyone thinks of his talents now, I mean, I guess I feel like that's probably my trajectory. because I don't think he practices. I think that's the,

honestly, I think that's the only thing with him is that he just doesn't practice. And it's like, motherfucker's in Metallica and he's doing fine. Like, if, as a businessman, let's take music out of it.

As a business mode. And if I come to you as another businessman and I go, okay, business is fucking great. Can you do more and business will be exactly the same? I know. It's like, continue to do

what you're doing because business is fucking good. Metallica aren't going to shit. There is one, when they did Daytona recently, there's a video of him playing one, and it fucking rips. And I'm like, it rips so much that I'm like, hmm, how something, is there something happening here? Because every time it's like,

I don't care, because Lars is like, honestly one of my favorite drummers. But every time it gets to the bit in one, it's never good. But there's just one video of Daytona, and it's like amazing. and I'm like, well, I saw them, my partner and I went and saw them in Portland, you know, a couple years ago now.

And it wasn't great because of him. But I've seen a lot of videos more recently and I, apparently they're playing to a click now. Oh. And I think that really changed everything. I couldn't not play to a click. I would be terrible. Yeah, I would hate that. I don't play a click with like Sex and Race Trader, different scenario, but I couldn't do that.

I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it for head of stuff. But I really think it's made him better because a lot of the problem at that show especially was he just sped up and slowed down in really weird ways. Yeah. That was like, this isn't what it's supposed to be. But the click, I think, really helps. I mean,

I'm sure there's maybe a little more going on because I think once your double base goes at that age. And that's fine. I don't need that from him. Yeah. And once you're on a click, it's so much easier to just fucking, like, should we put the old Yeah yeah You want to put the one

One kicks on the track We can just Yeah Yeah But the energy he has For like His age and everything Is like

Just fucking incredible That's what I want to be Always He's having the time of his life Even at that show He'd just be all over the place Like getting up Like pointing

I never do that And I wish I would Because I've always loved that about him I was a show pony And I just stole it all from last It's like when I was a kid I was like That's why I want to

Yes. He's like the front man. Yeah. It's very, very cool. But I did want to say one thing about Infernes having triggers. Dude, hearing that in my ear, because I had ears when I did that soundtrack, it was, it sounded so good. Yeah. So, so much fun.

I mean, that helped a lot because I could play a little lighter and make sure that I'm like. Have you ever done it right? No, I haven't. I used to, I used to be in a death metal band and we used to do it. And you can really relax. Yeah. I was just like, wow, this is awesome. You can really fucking chill out.

Oh, man, I'd love a girl on his fucking drum king. It was cool. That would be fucking awesome. How do we get onto the Metallica conversation? Oh, we're talking about drums. We're talking about DW. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and Tamer.

And Tamer. I don't care that much about drums. I really don't either. I mean, I think... I get more about Metallica. Yes. I switched to DW just because, you know, It was like the dream as a kid, and I had the opportunity, and I've always played DW hardware.

Because it's the fucking best. Like, I'm a time of guy, but I've got a DW snare stand. Yeah, it's a little better. It's just because it's so fucking heavy. They're so heavy. Yes. I do think I like Iron Cobra's a little better. I've always played better on them.

The one thing, though, is that the kickback always hits the top of my foot, and I have bruises after. But I do play 9,000. I think I went from 9,000s to Iron Cobras to Speed Cobras. And again, the speak cobras were just because I just, I got a theory with like, with gear. Like, I'm not a massive gear guy. Like, I like, I, I, I, I, I joined Tamer because I wanted when I basically, they gave me the offer. And it was when they reissued the Bell Brass, which is the fucking Black Album, you know. And when they were like, do you want to join Tamara?

I was like, can I get a Bell Brass with this deal? I was like, yeah, I was like, okay, we're in. And so I got one, and I got Alan at VK drums to make me the hoops like Lars used to have. So I have like a bellbrass that's the closest thing to the black album Bellbrass. But I can't remember what I was fucking talking about there, other than getting onto Bell. Metallica, Bellbrass, Tama Talk. Oh, the snare stand. Yes, yes, yes.

It only fits a DW snare stand because it's just too heavy for everything else. It's the fucking shit. It is heavy. And Metallica are in your dream festival. Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm my Vera Band of all time. So let's... Metallica and Queen are my very bands of all time.

I want to talk so much about Metallica more. So we're going to go straight to the Dream Festival. Do you need another water? I can hit a pause. No, I'm good. You want to go straight in while the fire is still there? Yeah. Okay.

So your Dream Festival, before we get to the headline, which I think we know what it is. Where is it? I don't know. That's tough. What do you mean? I gave you a ones up. I gave you some heads up on it.

I know you did. I mean, my favorite places are Barcelona. I love. Dublin. What's so good about Barcelona? I don't know. It's just such a beautiful place. Like, one of the first times I really, like,

walked around and did stuff on my own on a tour was there and I walked around for like 12 hours straight. I didn't have a phone. I didn't even think about it. And it was just felt magical. It's such a beautiful, cool place. Are you having a festival there though? No, I don't think so. Maybe Dublin, because the crowd was so good last night. Ooh, talk to me about that. Where was the show last night? But I love Glasgow too. It was at Monti Park. Monterey Park, something like that.

Oh, these venues are so big. We haven't even talked about your fucking pool. How is the tour? Tour is amazing. I mean, obviously, it's a dream. It's such an insane country. Yeah. Have you ever toured with Green Day before?

No. Such an insane line up. Previously. They've always been super cool. And I mean, you know, Duky was a seminal record in my life. I, you know, I remember playing it in band. We always got to do, like, home room.

We could go to the band room instead. And then on, like, we had lunch breaks, and we could just go and sign into the band room and play music. Yeah, we did the time time. So I remember when Duky came out, I played that all the time. Weezer, one of the most important bands to me, Blue Album and Pickerton, obviously. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

It's pretty wild. And Dave Eulich is playing. I was going to ask you. Have you, like, had him many interactions with it? Yeah, I went up to him. What did he say? Are you playing the fucking drums wrong? Yeah.

Did he actually? No fucking way. Yeah, of course. You know he's going to. I mean, not really, not really. But he did mention it. I went up to him after we played, I think. before we went on stage

I was like hey man you were awesome because they just got off stage if you are about to tell me I was like you're a sick fucking drummer I love your stuff you know whatever then we got off stage and he was still in the room so I just came in and I was like

hey and he came out and watched a couple songs and we're just talking and like getting back into it I'm like you know it's like the last tour it took like two weeks before I had the confidence because I just hadn't played in so long or played live with a band

But this tour, you know, it seems like it's coming a little quicker. And the, you know, the Rudy warmups really help. And then, yeah, he was like, yeah, you looked pretty good, but you're, you know, hear a lot. And as soon as you had the microphone, because I have a microphone, I'm sitting along sometimes. He's like, as soon as that mic was in your face, your posture was perfect. And I was like, yeah, I know. He's like, you should try to play with that the whole show for a show just to like feel. So he's got a point.

He's coming from a nice place. In my head, I thought you were going to tell me that he came up and went, hey, yeah, you should work on this. No, no, it was nice. It was, I mean, it kind of went there naturally. Yeah, I definitely do play. I mean, I'm sitting like this now.

This is how I play. This whole tour I have been trying to, like, be super mindful because it is, it has created problems in my life, you know, that I notice a lot with cross. fit with like certain positions. Whoops, sorry. That's all right. Certain positions with, you know, the barbell or...

I want to get those fucking wall slide things. Those things. Yes. Oh my God. That opens you up. If you're a drummer, the first time you do those, I just can't do it. We'll help you. Yeah.

I can't either. I thought you were going to tell me, Dave, which came up to you like, no. Unsolicited. And I was like, hey, you should try doing this. Is he like ripping with Weezer? Is he just playing? No, you just...

I mean, I didn't mess it up that we're good okay the ghost notes are there you can't really hear them but you can see them and especially

you know I've seen a lot of the videos he's done that you know they're there but he's not he's not ripping too much I think you know it's here and there

that's cool throwing in a couple he's not gonna get fired or anything he's good I mean it's whizzer so you kind of have to lay back

yeah it wouldn't be right if he did some fucking Mars Volter shit on fucking body holly yeah i mean i'd love to see it i'd have a fucking great time okay dream first but the ghost notes are insane like

i do remember seeing one video and it's just like constant and it's like if you could hear that it would sound so much different it's the same with mishoga like Thomas hearts like on particularly to get super fucking nerdy about it um the album nothing

they remixed it and it lost all the ghost notes and it was fucking terrible. But like the OG 90, I want to say it was 991 has that just the ghost notes, just consistent ghost notes throughout the whole thing. Yeah. It's fucking incredible.

Yeah. But they need to be quiet enough that, yeah. Yeah. Because weasel would sound fucking insane. Dream Festival, where are you? Yes. Are you in Dublin? Are you in Glasgow?

I guess Milwaukee. Oh, it's fucking changed it. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Okay. That's home. That's... Is it home? as in you live there?

No, that's just hometown. I mean, I still have a condo there. I live in Portland, Oregon. Nice. Walk is home. I think Portland would be one of my, if I was going to move to America. Yeah.

Portland's fucking top three. Good coffee. You were in a coffee shop there. What's it called? Oracle. Oracle. Did my fucking research. Hell yeah.

You weren't here, guys, but I made him a coffee earlier. How was it? It was great. It was great. It sounded like I, I made him say it. Yeah.

Look at that. Branding. All done. It's all done. It was nice. It was an oat flat. Oat, I guess an oat flat white. Otecapecino.

Yeah. Similar. Okay. So you're in Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Sorry, is there a festival place that you could do it? It doesn't matter. It's a dream festival.

Okay. That's one of the world's biggest festivals. It's like a two-week festival and they just have tons of bands. And then there's a Marcus Amphitheater, which I think it's called something different at this point. But that's where all the big bands play. We actually played it last year on this tour, I think. Nice. Because this tour was postponed and then started last year and then had a break.

And then had to push Europe until this year. And Asia got canned. Yeah, Asia and Australia got canned. I think I don't know any of this stuff, but I think the cost of redoing everything, rebooking everything, Everything was just insane. And no one knew what, because it seemed pretty insane there. Oh, yeah.

Japan's still not even really that open at all. I think it's like a limited amount of even work people a year. Damn, yeah. All right, you're in Milwaukee. Yep. What is your accommodation? Just staying at my condo. I mean, I guess if it's a dream thing, I get my old house back.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. house on the lakefront with like a bunch of my friends. Most of them are dudes who are in Miser Signals. Cool. Yeah, so I'd get that house back, which I sold years ago. I'm writing these down. But a lot of memories there. Okay.

I'm writing these down and I will seamlessly edit it. Yeah. At the end, it seems like I remembered everything because usually I would have some sort of producer to do this. Who is the headliner? Queen and Metallica. Wow. Two stages. Nice.

So it's Queen and Metallica. Is it, what we're doing? Like one day, Queen, one day, Metallica? Or is it the same? Okay, let's be specific. It's live shit binge and purge era. So you get everyone with the long hair. Yeah.

And this is the D&D and you coming out. Still an alcohol, like still drinking then. So he's probably wild. So he's riffing. Lars was sick then. I think was Lars wearing. like the full spandex pant like with a headband and long hair

that's the fucking shit see I saw when when the minute you said about the your old house I saw in your eyes the D&D activate the brain yeah the story comes down and I just are like okay I've got this fucking guy now okay so it's live shit binge and purge

era and then queen I don't know I guess news of the world but also 85 because I want maybe half the set with Freddie with long hair Here's what I need to ask you Because it's a dream festival But you need to give me the fucking

Schematics of How Freddy's back Pamela Guest Guest appearance How is Freddy back? How is Freddy back? Is he back in holographic form

or have they invented a way to reanimate him? Yes, reanimated. Or did he never die? Never died. Never died? I shouldn't have given you that one. Let's go and reanimated. Okay.

I'm imposing the limit there. But it's a dream, you said. So, can be any ear. No, actually, that's so mean of me, like wishing that horrible death on a man. Okay. Freddie Mercury did not die. Queen are playing. Metallica are playing?

Are they on two separate days? Or are they on the same day? Same day, two stages. And what... One day festival. One day festival. Who's playing first? Who's closing?

Crap, that's tough. I mean, I guess Queen has to close. Nice. You know what Will Putney said in this circumstance? He had 9-inch Nails and Metallica on two stages. Very similar. And he had it, they had to flip-flop song to song. So you could watch Trent Raznor Bean.

annoyed while Metallica was playing and then he also said they were playing and justice for all front to back but with the bass turned up and the St. Angus snare drum

that I disagree with it yeah he was just trying to also then I get to have Cliff back in the band okay so yeah everyone's back Cliff's back the Metallica is live ship binge and purge

they're all they've all been drinking what's the set? So you don't want... So there's going to be no... Because that's between Justice and Black album, isn't it? I think it's Black Album here. Oh, does it include Black Album?

Okay. I think Black Album had come out. That's fine. This is the height of their powers. But it's... I mean, it's all the hits from... Definitely Unforgiven. My Friend of Misery,

which was one of my favorite metallic songs. Justice, front to back, for sure. Oh, so they're going to... That's my favorite. Yeah, same. Same, same, same, same, same. But then anything from Killem All is with Dave. Oh, this is so magical.

Keep talking, my friend. So Dave gets to be on that. So he's there. So they just wheel Dave out for the songs that he's on. There's no beef or anything. You don't want to see it's a dream. You don't see it a punch up at the end? Also this, so it is live ship engine purge, which I believe they're playing ESPs.

And I believe they're the original ESPs that are more exact replicas of like a V and an explorer. But in this, they're playing Gibson's. So he's playing a Gibson Explorer and they're playing V's. Nice. Do you play guitar as well? No, I just... You just love the way they look. So my favorite death metal band right now is bass, Beast, B-A-E-S-T.

I don't know. Well, check them out. What's the deal? But they're just super sick. They're pretty old school death metal sounding. Where are they from? Denmark, maybe, something like that. Somewhere around there.

Somewhere European. But they're just so sick. They're so heavy. But aesthetically, they play Rickenbocker bass. And then usually it's like a V. or an artie, an artie artist or whatever it is, which is kind of a similar body to like an explorer. And then an explorer.

Just fucking spiky guitars or whatever the shop. Yeah, that's fucking cool as fuck. I don't know anything about guitars really, but I always like love a spiky guitar and I kind of love it when one of the guitarists is left-handed. Oh, that's sick, yeah. Because then you can have, yeah, yeah, the outsides. Yeah.

The point isn't the two drummers talking about? I just love you. These explores, less Pauls, of course. SGs are sick. But you don't play it? You just... No, not really. I have a bunch of guitars.

Just appreciate it. Same with drugs. Yeah. I appreciate drugs. Just appreciate it, yeah. I'm a straight-edge drummer, and I appreciate drugs and guitars. Yeah. Totally.

I fucking love it. Okay, so smaller side stage band. Fine bass. Bates to play. Oh, motherfucker. Is that, was that... Were you doing my job for me? were you getting on for that.

Okay. Give me one more. It sucks because I want Nine Inch Nails too. It's your dream. It's your dream festival. I mean, if we're talking a festival, then we get Nine Inish Nails. Yeah, you can...

And they're before Metallica on that stage. They're going to be so angry about that. The production. I know. It sucks. That's got a history of... That's too bad, though. Did you ever hear the story of when Nine Inch Nish Nels

played under Biffy Clyro at a running festival? Yes. We were there. Wow. Was that you? You there that year as well? Yeah. I was there.

Oh, that's when we talked earlier. And I was like, I'm sure I've seen you about it at Reading Festival. Yeah, it was then. Because I think they were co-headlining or something. Yeah. And their production got cut for the Biffy production. Yep. And Trent threw a fucking fit about it on stage, which was awesome to watch.

So do you want, considering it's a dream? What about a little bit of Trent beef? With Metallica. Yeah, yeah. We'll throw that in there. I mean, I think if you have Trent there, you're going to get that regardless. Yeah. Angry,

angry got down. But I mean, they wouldn't be one of the best live shows if he wasn't so particular about every aspect of it. I love him and them. Well, and I love Elon. Oh my God,

what a fuck. But also for this show, you get Elon Rubin, and then you also get Josh Fries. Because he was so sick in Ninthinels too. I mean, I'll still listen to like the live stuff with him, and it's so cool.

yeah such like great versions Josh Reese is maybe one of the reasons I pursued like punk and heavy drumming but with

with more of like a mindset of being able to adapt because he was just in the 90s late 90s he was just in like every band like he was in the vandals that I loved and then he was in a perfect circle that I loved and I was like this motherfucker just want to be this guy like I dyed my head

I did all the Josh Re shit. I fucking loved him. Yeah. Still out of his book. Brooks Wackerman. Sting. Playing with Sting and shit like that.

Devo. Guys got fire. And then like as well as all the studio stuff. Years ago we played a festival with Weezer and he was playing with Weezer at the time. And I remember we went through and I had met him maybe on like a DW photo shoot when I was just playing their hardware. Or maybe does he play Sabian? I don't know. Could have been a Sabian thing.

I think he might play. I think he plays. Weird. All right. I love it. I think it was DW. But so I'd met him there and we talked briefly. It was super nice.

And then we played this festival and we're going on a cart and we go past him. And he's just like, oh, hey, Andy. And it was just like. Amazing. What? Me? It was very cool that he remembered me. I hit him up in a very similar fashion to me.

you up? Yep. He didn't reply. Yeah. You replied. I was really nice. I'd try and be really nice. It was,

and to be fair, though, I found that he wasn't playing for the Vandals. We played a festival that Vandals were also playing. And I would have ghosted that anyway. But, man, he's like,

I would love to have him out here as well. He's sick. Shit, chew his fucking ear off about, probably ends up. Most episodes, I'll be honest with you, like Metallica is my favorite band of all time. Yep, me too. if the other person likes Metallica

this might that's all you're talking about but this podcast originally was going to be called An Justice for Lars and it was just going to be me talking to other people that love Metallica and specifically

love Lars and I was like there's a ceiling to that but secretly every episode has ended up being that yeah I'm not even going to give you the rundown because it's so funny so we're going to go for what's your

catering. Damn, that's good. I mean, obviously it's vegan. Obviously, but it's your dream. So it's almost like you could have... I guess Crossroads is my favorite vegan restaurant in L.A. Yeah. So Tall Ronan.

Chef Tall is doing it. He's there. That would be sick. And then obviously coffee provided by... Are you going to monetize this for yourself or are you going to know? Hell no. I don't really go to my own shop when I'm home. I always go to other shops.

I mean, I live closer to other shops anyway, so that's kind of why. And we don't roast. So let's see. That's tough. Five elephants in Berlin is very good. So fucking good. So good. What a fucking, I feel like we're best friends now.

Hell yeah. Five elephants is fucking incredible. You know what, Aris is great in Germany as well? man versus machine in i think i believe it's in munich let me do a fucking i'm not even going to do a jamey pull that up because it will fucking break shit if i had another person i think it's called man versus machine and it's in all i know is it's like you can do i'll look later you can do you can it's like within two days there's more good coffee there's like a little run i love i love britain munich great food the barn the barns yeah yeah

Yeah, so much good coffee. Okay. So let me write these down and seamlessly cut it later. We got... Oh, Wattain. Yeah, there, there. Let's talk about that. Right, we've got Crossroads.

Fine, we've added a second night, and it's Wattain's night. Okay. All right, it's going in. It's going in. Okay, so we've got like a heavy night happening. Yeah. And I guess based... Beast-based.

I don't really know how to say it, but they are on that day. And then, uh, main support. We are playing, we are playing festival, Dungeons and Dragons right now.

Yes. It's fucking sick. Do you know Kraft? I think they're a Swedish black metal band as well. No. They're very good. Spelt normally or spelled like the cheese?

It's not normal. Uh, so their main support. Ah, that's tough though. Because if it's a dream, then I want, cannibal corpse

You can have all of this. I want cannibal corpse bleeding era but I want corpse grinder who is the superior Yeah absolutely fuck that other guy

Oh hell yeah Fuck that other guy As a human And fuck Yeah in every way And just in every Wasn't a great vocalist But the bleeding is a masterpiece

Dicide Legion era Nice This is Dicide self-titled is out Um And Steve Ashheim or however you say it is

very sick drummer Morbred Angel Covenant era maybe domination era because there are a couple songs on that I love Is Pete Sandoval back or is it the other guy? Well it's that era so he would be in it You can't take

You can it's a dream That's what makes it so cool You can be specific about what members you get In mix and match I'm just fucking running out of typing shit that's a nice stage. Perced from Within era. You can have the whole Morissound catalog.

No, whoa, whoa. I would love to record with Scott Burns, circa 90. Oh, on the Morissound fucking desk. Like some of those bands, like the best thing about that was like, all the records sounded the same because it had that fucking sound.

But you could really hear, because of that, you could really hear which musicians were fucking great and which one. Yeah. So there's a bunch of like, I hate that band Massacre, you know what I band? Yeah. Like that From Beyond record, the drummer is fucking incredible.

Like, you can just hear that he is absolutely smashing the fucking goddamn shit out of that. And it was like early trigger days. There was some of those like scream bloody gore death. Like the snare is quite obviously fucking triggered. And it's fucking crazy. but it's sick. That like cavernous Yeah.

Cavernous snare reverb sound. Oh, super sick. Love it. Well, death is on the lineup. Oh! Symbolic era. But you get, I guess you get all eras

because I want James Murphy. I want the cynic guys, Sean. There is a lot of people coming back to life in this festival. I love Sean Raynard. Amazing. He was an amazing drummer.

Unbelievable. Um, Gene Hogland's one of my favorite drummers of all time. Also a big Twitch guy. I feel like just fucking shaking him. Yeah, I feel like,

I had no idea. Yeah, but I just want to go and shake him and go, bro, I love you, I love your playing, I love your weight loss journey.

I'm for everything that you do. Please, God, get someone to mix your shit. He's using like camera audio, and he's going to play, he's like ripping. He's one of the best,

what are you going to do? Just, it takes one second, but he's gone to the thing that my beef with it. It's not even beef, it's just like, I just want to help him. It's like, I'll tell you how to do it. I'll send you some fucking gear. I'll send you some contacts.

But like, he has all the, like, you know, the Twitch overlays and all that shit. And then it's like I'm watching a fucking Game Boy Advance. Like the audio and the visual, other than the fucking overlays is shot. Yeah. It's so annoying because he's playing these songs that I really want to watch him play.

And you want to hear it. Fine. We get a Gene Hogland Day where you just get like the best of you get strapping, Gene strapping era. Big fan. Dark Angel. Fear Factory. Testament.

What's his record? Low? What's the after show as a straight edge man? There's one answer and we've talked about it at length on this podcast, what you should be doing for an after show party. With all these people. what is it a fucking giant game of d and d

oh yes that would be sick Trent resner a giant game but like broken up into different rooms with different like kind of conflicting personalities at each table okay in one big room okay give me who convention

give me who's on out of every band that you've just done there who's on your table oh that's tough and give me what they are out of out of the bands So let's say, what, what do you say? Optum game is five people.

So we got five people. Who is the dungeon master of Andrew's table? A post-show D&D table. I guess Trent, because he's such a control maniac, that you know it would be a great game. Oh my God, this is amazing. And like the whole presentation would be beyond anything you could ever imagine.

I'm not visualizing you at a table with Trent Resina playing D&D, and it's incredible. Yeah. And it would be like the latest stuff because he's, you know, like, yeah. He's into his technology. Yeah, exactly. Okay. The Dungeons, I don't know.

What are you? What are you playing? I'll be a Ranger because that's what I always do. Okay. That's what I like. Conflicting personalities. Let's throw someone. I mean, that's if we were.

just watching it. But if I'm a part of it... What if you took... I don't want to put words in your mouth. What if you took Chris Barnes from Cannibal Corpse? He has to be there though, but you want the conflicting stuff

and do you want the bleeding era or is that he's not there? I was going to say, why don't you put him and Freddie Mercury on this table? They're on a separate table then. But I want...

I do want corpse Griner on my table. Okay. Because corpse Griner, you know, may play D&D, because you know he plays wow. Yeah. And he seemed,

I've never met him, but I love his target and Walmart. Yeah, that shit he does on fucking social media. Just loves it. And I love his love for his family is so, like, sweet.

I would love to have him on this podcast. So I want him. Okay, Chris Barnes is not here, by the way. He's not at the festival. So, okay, corpse guy is at your table. What is he,

what's his? He's got to be like a barbarian. Obviously. We need two more people You need two more people Eric from Watain Is on my table And he's gonna play some

Dark elf Like evil mage Ciotic evil For sure obviously And he will be You know In the full get up Where he's buried his clothes

Oh my god So the damn things You know that one band We played a festival with Watain Yeah And I passed Eric He was going to like The shower

And he was like Do you have any Like body wash Or shampoo poo or something. Who Eric said that. Yeah. Very nice.

Super nice. And like quiet. Off character. Soft spoken. And smelled so bad. That stage. Unbelievable. I've smelled it.

The trunk that they leave it. It's the coolest thing. They're one of my favorite fans of all time because everything's so real. The magic. The blood. It's not bullshit. You heard the stories about them getting like their ammo belts taken off them and stuff.

They've been fucking put in custody and shit like that. All sorts of stories. The stinking. What is the deal with their stage clothes? It's just like, you know, ritual and part of the... Burying it as fucking cool. Part of the beliefs. Which I love.

I love it. I feel like they're the metallica of black metal. Nice. Because they're super epic songs. They kind of every record like introduces new things, you know, and kind of one-ups And it's an evolution. Kind of their, kind of their black album as well.

It's, I love it. Yeah. Amazing. But it's got, it's like, yeah. Less fast.

Yeah. More fucking, more like big rock and snare in there. Yep. Fucking sick, though. Okay. But yeah, he's there.

He's stinking up your table. Yep, yep. Um, you got one more. Is that one more? Yeah, because you're, uh,

you're there. You forgot on your list. Well, Wu-Tang's on the Fess. And all dirty bastards alive and he's there He's the last man on the table Okay

And he's playing some kind of like Traveling like Super fucked up Traveling Bard type person Who's crazy Yeah And that's the after show party That's the game

Okay so I'm going to attempt To regale you With your dream festival Okay. Yeah. We are in Milwaukee. There is a festival happening. Mm-hmm.

Curated by Andrew Hurley. Headlining this festival. Two days. Two stages. I'm sorry. Okay. Two days, two stages. You've got Queen.

I must preface this, that Freddie Mercury is still alive. You've got Queen playing and you've got Metallica playing. Metallica are playing Live Shit, Vinge and Purge era. However, they're playing a like a mixture set of everything from before then. And Dave Mustaine is back for the Killimall songs. Yep. Ninth Nail's Nails is also playing with Alain Rubin and Josh Fries.

Yeah. Playing the drums. And Wootang have been added. They're on the second night that Watain's headlining one stage. Wutangh's headlining the other stage. Okay, so the second night, we've got the sort of Florida era death metal stage. Shit, no, that's on night one because we've got a separate day for the, for the Watain stage. Or is that?

No, it'll be the same. That's the same one. It'll be the extreme metal day. Okay, so the extreme metal day, we have death. Again, Chuck is not dead either. There's been a development in. In the time from this podcast, it's been a development in human science.

Yeah. Where you can just roll back time and change things. That's, yes. And a couple of things have happened, like the Mandela effect. A couple of things have been changed. A couple of people are still here with us. Thank God.

Death playing symbolic era with Chuck, with Gene playing drums, correct? And Sean. And Sean, who is also not dead. Yeah. God rest of soul. So what, they flip-flopping? This has been the hardest festival ever to talk back.

I'm going to try and do a faster one right at the end. You get to have James Murphy on guitar. You get Paul Masvedal from Sinic. You get Andy LaRocke, King Diamond, one of amazing guitars. You get them all. That's the point. That's the dream. So you get all of these through their different eras.

Such an insane backstage. Yeah, it is. But you'd have all of cynic is there, but you're not having sinic. Fine, cynic is to play. I was going to say, cynic there. Okay, I'm just going to try this just really, really fast because this is fucking insane. It's too much. It's the longest one ever.

I'm going to go super fast on it. We're in Milwaukee. It's your festival. It's a three-night affair. we've got Queen we've got Metallica playing live shit the Indian Purge era

and Pryor if anything involves Dave Mustaine he's there he's playing P.S. Freddie Mercury's not dead and any members of these bands that we're talking about are not dead if they are dead they're back

Nine Inch Nails are playing with Alan and Josh Fries on another day we have Wu-Tang playing and a second stage, which has the extreme metal stage, which we have death playing symbolic, with Jean Hogan, with Sean Reiner, we've got everyone.

They're just playing, they're playing more than symbolic. Cynic are also there, they're playing. Watain are there. Baste, beast, they're there. We've got cannibal corpse, but they're playing bleeding era, but with George.

Yep. Corpse Grinder. Deasite, morbid angel playing Covenant era. Suffocation and playing Pierce from within era. Obitria there. There's another day for Gene Hoagland only band. We've got strapping unlad. We've got all of the death, Gene Hogan.

We've got all of that stuff on that day. Crossroads are catering. Yep. The event. The event of a fucking lifetime. Crossroads are catering. And Five Elephants Coffee. Post show, D&D party.

Yep. Everyone from every band has their own little tables. Separate, on a separate table, we don't know what game they're playing, what the ins and outs are, but Chris Barnes is playing Dungeons and Dragons with Freddie Mercury, who is not dead. Yeah.

On your table, Andrew Hurley's table, the Dungeon Master is Trent Resort. no. Andrew will be playing a ranger. Corpse Grinder is a barbarian. Eric from Watan is an evil dark elf, mage, chaotic magic, of course, and he's in his full stage show,

stinking up. His stage close, stinking all up. And ODB is there, and he's a bar, like a fucked up bar. That's it. And that's your game. That's your festival.

How long does the game of D&D last for? Six hours. Six hours. And after that six hour game of D&D, you are going back to your old house that you used to live with the guys from misery signals down by the water. Yep. That's it.

That is the most insane festival anyone's ever done here. Nice. I want to go, though. There's more. Yeah, and filled out the Wutang stage yet. Fill it out. Fill out. Go.

Oh, wow. Elmatic era. Jesus. What else we got? See, I got to think about it. We got gang star. I gave you a heads up. To think about it.

J. Rue, the Damager. Oh, wow. That's a fucking record. I mean, I guess anything DJ Premiere. I love this stuff with Royce, the 5-9. What's that called? Prime. Very sick.

So they're there. Griselda Records or Griselda I guess Was it the fucking budget for this The budget for the scientific feats alone To get everyone back from the dead To the festival before you even Factor in the guarantee

How much you're... Let's put it this way It's full Like The ultimate Good... I'm an anarchist but it's the ultimate full world communism, like the ultimate form

where states have dissolved and ceased to exist. Hierarchies don't exist. So everyone has everything. Everyone's taken care of. Like everything's good. This is the world we're living at this point. This is why these technologies exist to bring these people from these specific eras back.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah, this is why I want to get into Dungeons and Dragons, Because I'm so down. The budget's meaningless. Because we've seized the means of production here. We're just, everyone's just doing it because they love it. Yeah.

There it is. Some of these people I can't find, can't really see being on board with that. Particularly the black, on the black mountain stage. I'm not sure. No, I feel, I heard,

we played a, a, did a tour in Europe with Gus. They're kind of like, d-beat-ish, I think. And they're from Sweden And one of the guys knew Eric when he was younger

And apparently he was in like the young Communist League Nice Yeah, then they're not He's He seems to be really cool And very specifically Antifascist or anti-Nazi I don't think he's like

Antifa or anything Yeah It probably doesn't like that shit It's probably very apolitical Yeah But like Yeah they're definitely not one of the naughty ones I don't yeah I don't think

I mean I think they hate the world period, but I would imagine if the material conditions changed, maybe they wouldn't feel that way. In your fucking utopia festival though, what if they've lost their edge? Because everything's so good.

Why are they playing like a fucking really nice set? I feel like their fire burns eternally. They're finding something at the festival to complain about and write music about. And, well, the reason too that they get to headline is

first of all, it has to be night time when they're playing. Absolutely. Not going to translate as cool because it's outdoors. Yeah. But second off, I want them to have the longest set they can and for it to be as like, you know, occult, like as ritualistic. They have the time to light all this stuff. And like the stage is more insane than anything they could imagine having.

It'd be sick. I love it. It's crazy. That could be. a D&D fucking campaigner who just make fucking crazy festivals. Yeah. I would do it. That's why I'm on board with D&D.

Based on that alone, I saw your brain like ticking. And just be like, no way I could do this. I love it. I think we're good. I think that's us. Yeah. We didn't plug anything. I don't want to plug anything.

I don't give a fuck. Yeah. I don't care. I just wanted to hang out. Thank you so much for coming on. It's been a pleasure. I can't wait to see you at your festival. I hope there's a little spare room for me.

at the little boat house. Nice. Let's go. Thank you, mate. Thanks again. Yeah, of course. Enjoy your show tomorrow. Well, do you.

Wait, can I come? I haven't asked you. Yeah, absolutely, of course. Fuck, yeah, let's go.