The Downbeat - ATREYU | BRANDON SALLER ON METALCORE’S EVOLUTION, THE CURSE + THE END IS NOT THE END.

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

My guest on the podcast this week is Brandon Saller of Atreyu. An OG of the scene, we talked about the early days of metalcore, his switch up from drums to vocals, the impact of their album ‘The Curse’ and of course their new album The End Is Not The End. We also talk about how he wrote kids book, and got a vasectomy (unrelated?).

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So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. What's up guys? Welcome back to the Downbeat Podcast live but not live from Sonic Temple in Columbus, Ohio. My guest on the podcast this week is Brandon Sala of Atreu. He used to be the drummer. Now he's the singer. We talk about that. We talk about their new album, The End is Not the End. He's got a kid's book. We just talked about a bunch of stuff. But before we get started, I want to let you know if you want to support a podcast, you've got three ways to do it. If you fancy getting ad-free early access to episodes, discount code, stuff like that, you could go to patreon.com 4 slash the Downbeat, chuck us a little bit of money.

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Welcome to the Downbeat. Thank you, thank you. A and an O? Yes. Brand on. Brand on. Is there a brand N, E, N somewhere? I think it's usually a Brendan.

Brendan's get annoyed. Yeah. They can have an O and an A. I don't think that's fair. No. I didn't think that's fair. It's funny. Mutual friend Tom Williams was like,

you got to do a podcast with him. And I was like, sure. And he's like, he's funny. You come straight in with that. Yeah. It's funny shit. I'm glad someone thinks so. Thanks for coming on to that week.

Appreciate it. Yeah. What were you doing in a vineyard with Tom Williams? So in Nashville, I mean, this is like wives. Wife shit, you know?

All the wives, especially the ones with all of us kids, there's a vineyard called Arrington. And it's lovely. Whether you drink or not. but like spring summer everyone goes on like friday nights Mike brings food and you hang out and everyone the kids can kind of run around do their thing

and then it's done by like eight so it's not like a big commitment you know is Tom not the only sober person he's like one of four one of four and you guys are just wrecked we're just hanging yeah I'm just drinking frose and having a good time I saw an interview with you recently I'm sure you're drinking like a

it looks like a champagne flute was I'm pretty sure that sounds I mean that's not not accurate You're a wine guy? I used to be a much more of a wine guy, but I like some wine. I was half expecting with Tom's Wheeler Dealering and you being an entrepreneur. I was half expecting, oh, I'm making a wine. No, no, not yet at least.

Not yet. You are a bit of an entrepreneur. I do, thanks. Yeah, I do a couple things. I mean, it's mostly all in the music space, but I mean, just in a band. I write songs for other bands. I did music for like sync for a long time, a TV film for a long time. Nice.

I manage our band. You're missing one, maybe two. I can add some more. I just thought, I talked to a buddy yesterday about getting into vending machines. That one's crazy. What's the deal? Apparently it's awesome. Like they're very inexpensive.

It's a very low, like, risk to buy them as long as it's more so like finding places you can put them ahead of time. And they've been like, cool, I'm moving next month and then buy it. So you buy them. machine, stock it, like nets like $800 to $1,000 to $1,000 a month per machine. But you got to pay a guy to go fill it up, but you do it? Just be the guy.

Just be the guy. Yeah. Get yourself a little hat. You've got that hat. I got plenty of hats. Put the logo on it. A vending machine guy hat. You got a kid's book, though? I do have a kid's book, yeah. That's crazy. Where did that come from? That was more so just my kids learning to read and trying to get them to be interested in something to read.

Yeah. So it's like, okay, put their names and characters in the book. And then they'll be like, wow, I'm in a book. Oh, it's their names. Yeah, well, two of them. So it's like, it's called punk rock zoo. And it's about these like, you know, these. Feral animals.

Yeah, they're like, just fucking roast your kids. Yeah, you fucking, you're so bad. No, my kids are great. But they're like punk rock animals that are like different and they have to play the talent show and they're worried about what if people don't like them. And it's just about like, you know, it's good like message stuff. You know about being yourself. But like there's like Ruby the Rabbit.

that's one of my daughters and then Piper the Penguin it's my other daughter So how many kids are you got? Two So you got If you have another kid You have to write another book

Another book, yeah I'm not gonna have any more kids So, So, I'm just gonna have to put their names in twice Snipped? Yeah, I'm snipped out How was it?

Dude is the great. Yeah? So I have a weird thing This is not a healthy, I think thing to say But I love anesthesia I think anesthesia is one of the best things It's like

The closest to death As you can be Nice Which means I'm not. not a depressed person. I don't like that idea, but I think it's the most relaxed you can be. Yeah. I will say, though, a very interesting thing about my, my sniffing experience, for anyone that doesn't know, like, it's below, right? What they're working on is sort of

underneath all the bits and pieces, right? What? It's like in the, you know what I mean? In the Guch region. Yeah, it's like almost butthole. No way. It's like under nut, right? Wow. It's just going how you expected it to go. Exactly. Actually, yeah. Well, these are the questions I requested. But I woke up from said experience and the whoever did it once I was out, the pubes that they shaved were not even close to where they were performing unnecessary. And not even complete. Just like a bit of this. What you mean? They went up top.

And it was like, you don't even need to be there. This is restricted. You don't even. You're not even working here. Maybe they were a fan. It must have been. Bro, I fucking love the curse. Hell yeah, dude.

This is exactly what I thought you would look like. got an alter at home that's Brandon from a traitors itching itching randomly I know they're sacrificing the pubs Well we've already covered there So much, yeah

Yeah I can't even talk Don't want to talk about my balls I've got quite small balls That's a good thing though It's less Less baggage Quite literally yeah

It's good in a fight Not that I've been in one for 20 years But Is it good to have smaller balls in a fight Yeah Because it's harder to hit Yeah Well, we did balls.

We were talking before we set up about how I'm very unprofessional. And you mentioned something about Pyrot. Yeah, this is funny. So we'll see how today goes. We did Pyrro for the first time at Rockville. And it was fucking flawless. Dude was awesome. They kind of recommend another company or whatever.

I'm not going to name the company, but because they haven't yet to blast fire on our stage yet. Okay. But the guy today, he said to our drum tech, who's also the TM, he's like, yeah. he's like, yeah, I didn't get a chance to listen to any of the stuff. They sent me cues, but I didn't get a chance to listen. So if any of you guys want to control it, that's cool. I was like, I don't know that that's how you work. I don't think that's legal.

That's more Florida activity than I know. Yeah. So who's doing it? It's either going to be, luckily, the dude from last week is here. He's doing Shinedown today. So either he's going to do it or our drumtexts just can be back there ripping. That's kind of sick. It's just kind of fun.

I got a question on pyro. So Rockville being the first time that you did it. How expensive is it? You don't have to give me a number, but like... It's not cheap. It's not cheap. Everyone I speak to says it's not cheap. But I'm wondering, like, how much you spend it on the fire?

15, 20. That's a lot. Just for a show. Here's the thing. We've been a band for a long time. We just put out a new album. You know, you're always trying to, like, put your best foot forward. And the reality is we come from the whole.

parker scene. That's where we started. So like things like this didn't exist when we started. And it never even was a thing that we ever thought we would do. Yeah. It wasn't until we started managing ourselves that like financially it was possible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like, oh, there's all this money that's not being paid on you. It was like, oh, like, festivals gave us some really good slots this year. Uh, they gave us the opportunity. Like, let's do what, what it, what we can. You know? Um, and it looked fucking awesome. How many blasts? It was like over half the set. Really? Fuck. Yeah. I mean, that's cool. I, I saw MCR last night.

I love everything about that band. Like the aesthetic, the stories, the other stuff that Girard Wade does. Yeah. Musically, not for me. Okay. But what I watched, like, I prefer LS Dunes to MCR. But that's like, I don't know. When MCR was out, I was like a fucking, I was like, I'm listening to Nile.

Don't go away. It wasn't sure. And I think if I had this open mind then, then maybe it would be a different story. What I couldn't help but notice is how little production they had. It's kind of wild. It worked. It worked. Dude, when they first came back and they started doing like when we're young and stuff with that,

before they were doing like the full black parade show and all that stuff, at least the black parade show has like set pieces and there's like sort of things and there's costumes. Fucking two grand. Yeah, but like when they first came back, it was like, yo, this is minimal. They're just cash and checks. I was just about you. They're just on their vibe. It's like my brain goes to, they are just making so much fucking money.

I think it goes in waves. Like you have certain bands too. Like you have a band like Avenged who's done every ounce of pyro production, everything cool that they possibly can't. Fucking 40 foot death bat made out of steel that shoots fucking fire out of the eyes. You know what I mean? Oh, it's gone. You like that.

They've done every bit of pyro, everything's, you know. And then they came back out for their new cycle. And it was like, we're not doing this shit anymore. Let's do something different. And they did something completely different. and still cool and whatever. So it's like... What did they do?

I didn't see it. I mean, it was like fully immersive screens and there's like AI changing the video of them and like there's lasers. And there's like... It's cool. I love pyro still, but it's like, I can understand. But for a band's never done it.

We're like, okay, let's just elevate the show. Have you seen the Bring Me an Horizon show? Yeah. From this run. I can't believe it. It's bonkers. It might be, I mean, maybe second to Ramstein. Ramstein.

I almost think it's, I mean, I would almost put it in the same category because it's the level of detail. It's the entire thing. It's the set pieces and how the video changes and the whole atmosphere changes. And like, it's nuts. I would say, yeah, I wouldn't put it second. I put it like equal top where bring me as digital. Yes. And Ramstein is analog.

Just steel and fire. Yeah. Ramstein is like, you know, space mountain. where bring me is like I was going to say the Simpsons ride but that's a bad one

but no one of the one of the like 3D fucking clever ones it's one of the newer one of the new and improved yeah but like the nostalgia

throwback in it the Resident Evil like loading screens shit like that yeah is there anything so after pyro what you're

you're two days old in terms of pyro yeah you got anything else you want to do production wise fuck yeah all the things

what you got I mean I want to just do bigger and cooler things and more pyro that shoots in different directions and different video content and whatever like I don't know like we've always been a band that did as much as we could with what we could you know when we could do it so it's like I think that that's only going to increase it was funny I was talking to a couple different friends and they're like oh dude look sick show look cool they're like good luck ever going back I'm like yeah so then it's the shows

that don't have it you're like man pyro is business class yes you never want to fly yeah I guess I want to fucking yeah I guess we'll fucking play in the show I don't want to do it, but I'll do it. It'll look stupid. But a big thing on stage. What would you have? I like a big thing. It's funny.

I like a big thing. We had an album in our wake. It had like big like skull thing on the front. Yeah. Robotic skull with like people in it. Way, you got one. You did it. Way before they dialed in how to do that.

Yeah. And it mainly was for it was like 15 feet high, something like that. And it was like, oh, we're going to blow it up out in front of the shows as just like a photo op. Yeah. And then on stages that we can use it, we'll put it like behind us. I think we put it up outside three shows. That was it. That was it.

Yeah. But I got to thank, I will thank Monster Energy for buying that for us. I'm going to thank Monster Energy for everything they do. Love you guys. Are you a Monster Band? We were a Monster Band for so long. We were like one of the first, like in the first five. And I will say it was the later part of our Monster experience, I think just where we were

out in a band, I think we became probably the worst indoorsies possible. Really? Drinking Red Bull? No, well, that did happen once. And it was like a, it was like a mistake. Like there wasn't any available. Oh, this is a real thing. Do you get in trouble for it?

We made a live video. And in the video, our bass player was drinking a sugar-free Red Bull. And it was just like, we were at a festival and like, there was no monster and it was like he had an energy drink and not thinking about it. It wasn't on stage. he like chugged it and got it all over him and like smashed the can and threw it on the ground. No, that's a viral moment. It made the video.

Right. And then we got a email that just said, it has the screenshot and it said, why? He was like, no, no, it's me like crushing Red Bull. It was like, fuck Red Bull. I tried to style it off. And it was like, oh, I didn't know, like we didn't notice. But we love them. They did so much shit for us and, you know, so much like financial help and backdrops and production.

I got my sweet backdrop. Yeah, they're great. I would gladly partner with Monster again. I'm just saying, straight down that fucking camera. We'll be better this time. We'll be better this time, I promise. I won't be like I used to be.

Do you get any, like, punk rock guilt from using pyro and stuff, coming from the hardcore scene? No, because I feel like, came from the hardcore scene, like punk scene, but that was my youth. But growing into an adult, you start, I mean, you've probably been the same thing

where you start doing like different shit and like festivals and like radio shows, whatever it may be. And you're like, whoa, like you start seeing possibility. Yeah. And you're like, oh, I want to do that. That looks cool as hell. Yeah. Yeah.

And especially just with our scene in general, like hardcore, metalcore or whatever you want to call it these days, the ceiling just keeps getting taller and taller and taller. Where you have bands like bring me or slaughter or fucking even like motionless, like doing like the production they did in the rock film. Unbelievable. Fucking crazy. I think it's, I don't have, I don't have that at all anymore. People yell at me when I even mention the term hardcore.

Really? I'll be like, I'll mention the fact that like, like, at our roots, we're a hardcore band. That's where we started. Yeah. We started Orange County hardcore scene with other hardcore bands. We toured with other hardcore bands. Like our first couple years of touring was fucking Snapcase, fucking voice, it's fire, remembering never fucking, you know, like all these like hopes fall. Like it was, we were 18 visions.

It was all the same thing. fucking bang us. Yeah, it just so happened that the whole scene elevated and we got bigger than it. You know what I mean? Luckily, I will bring up hardcore and dudes will just yell at me on the internet. It's like, okay.

Do you think Avenge Sevenfold get that as well? Because, I mean, I said something the other day, shortly before, I mean, not the other day, months ago, but like shortly before I fucking left Twitter forever, where like there was a debate going on about like metalcore albums that really shaped the genre Yeah. And I was like,

Waking the Fallen. And everyone was not happy, bro. That's a Metalcore album. That's a fucking banger. And I defend that album and everyone's like, no, it was not really good. It was like, you weren't there.

It was the biggest thing in the world. Most of these people weren't fucking there. Yeah. Well, we did the same thing. We were on Garza. It was the same thing. It was like records that like shaped metalcore. And we've brought up Waking the Fallon.

I've even brought up Sadie of Evil. Yeah. Because they were still in the scene. They were still warped touring. You know what I mean? That was when they were. They were ascending. But it's like, it doesn't matter what you bring up.

There's always going to be like old dicks that are like, what about botch? And you're like, no one even thought of the word metalcore when botch was around. They're like, you know what I mean? Like, it was like math.

It was like math core. They'll bring up bands where I'm like, great band, yes, I'm not discounting that, but it's like, also fuck you. Yeah.

Also fuck you. Yeah. So the curse. The curse of writing an album like the curse. Yes. What made you, is it a really? re-record or was it a remix remaster?

Full re-record. Yeah. 20 years afterwards, ish? 21. Came out 21. The 21 year anniversary. What was the reason for that? There was a few.

One, we were going to do a full year world tour of The Curse. One of the things was, let's make, let's re-record this and be very transparent about what you're getting when you come to this show. like here is an audio audio version of what you're going to hear when you come to the show this is what it sounds like now current lineup two uh i think the mix is good on the curse i don't think it sounds great none of us think it sounds great yeah um sounds very very very sterile so it's like let's record it again and and try to make it sound better to our ear yeah third we own that bitch so it's like it's the first record in our career that we can't put out and we own 100%. Who did it come out on originally? Victory. Right, and now you own it. Yeah.

Well, we don't own the original. We own the new one. Oh, shit. Okay. Do they not still own the writing, though? Like, I don't know. The publishing goes the same. Like, I mean, everyone's too.

Everyone, it'll be like, oh, like, you're just doing this to stamp out, Alex, fucking dicks. I'm like, he's going to get publishing on this record. And he didn't even touch it. So he's still going to benefit from this as well. But we own the masters. So it's like, if people do like this version, it's like, well, if you listen to that one, thank you.

If you don't listen to it, it's not even victory anymore. It's Concord that's getting, you know, every cent. What was relearning those songs like? I mean, you play a lot of them. We played some of them, but for me and Porter specifically, it was like, shit, okay, we'll learn all of these vocals and like figure out how we're going to do all these parts. And our old singer, I'll give it to him, he had a way with words, but he had a way with a lot of words, too.

So it was like shoving, you know, poems into short spans of time. So figuring all that out was difficult. It was hard, but fun still. Yeah. And we did the whole record with Kellan from Memphis Mayfire. Produced it, mix and everything, and he's an absolute killer too. So. West Coast, this one is for you.

Aftershock Festival is back, featuring My Chemical Romance, Limp Biscuit, Pierce de Vail, and my favorite band, Tall, headlining, 26. This year, they've got five stages, an expanded lineup and a larger footprint at the scenic Discovery Park. Come and see the very best in rock and metal, plus. a heavy dose of hip-hop with suicide boys and Wu-Tang. Just imagine the sort of collabs that might happen. I'm not saying they're going to happen,

but I am a sucker for a hip-hop metal collab. It is going to be an awesome time from October 1st to the 4th. Where else are you going to watch Wu-Tang, Tall, baby metal, black label society, Queens of Stone Age, Coheed, Sublime, Suicidal Tendencies, and so many more. It's 135 bands in time. total.

Unbelievable weather. I mean, don't blame me if the weather's not great, but come on, it's the West Coast. It's going to be good. Make sure you go to

aftershockfestival.com to check out tickets, look for festival updates, and stay tuned to the downbeat where I'm going to keep telling you this stuff. It's funny you say the mix on the curse was sterile

because it's one of the ones. I mean, I like the mix on the new one's good now and I get why you did it. It sounds better. It sounds better. It's just better. It does.

I have the nostalgia thing sometimes though. And it's only when the mix was good and the curse was good at its time. I'm saying I think the mix of the curse is good. Josh Wilbur makes that record, needed a great job. Josh Wilburne, of course.

That's why it's good. I just think, like, tone-wise, like a lot of the guitars are recorded. Like, a lot of the guitars are recorded like no-bye-down. Oh, I don't listen to the fucking guitar. Yeah. Even, but what's weird, guitar is totally sterile.

Drums, no samples. No click. No click. No fucking click, dude. No one that's come in here this weekend has been on a click. Do you feed us? No click.

I guess it just works. Back then I just didn't know. I was 19. What the fuck is that? Yeah, just get in there and play the song, I guess. Fuck. Like there's,

and the funny thing is, on the new one, we matched the tempos. So the speed ups and slowdowns that I naturally did on that record because I was 19, 20 years old and not knowing what the fuck I was doing, we kept it all.

So I had to re-record all that shit. Mapped it. I did that with Stray when we, when I started playing to a click because no one. the band wanted to play it or click. Yeah. Because you know what Tom's like. Oh, you're getting some of shoes?

Yeah. They don't do that. And then I was like, well, I need to because I'm playing like shit when I'm amped up. Yeah. So I programmed one and I played to it secretly for six months. That's awesome. Without anyone knowing. No one felt.

And then Tom stealing interviews and stuff. You know, we're just four guys on stage. No, no click, no nothing. And in my head, I'm not. Asterisk. That's a clue. There's a fucking click. And then they were on board.

Yeah. All right. We talked about the new one. Yeah. Let's talk about the new one. Talk about the new one. Go on. The end is not the end.

It's fucking, I love it. It sounds like maybe you wanted to split up or something. No, I think that it's more so like, there's sort of a bit of a story in some of the songs. And the way that it all panned out, it just kind of worked. A lot of the songs are sort of like about things that seem final, you know? Yeah. The artwork seems to. There's a fucking aliens on there.

Yeah. But it's funny because, like, if you open the booklet, it's like aliens abducting people in the world on fire. But it's like death and what's supposed to be like, like, the life skeleton. They're like cheersing champagne. Maybe that's what I saw, not the interview. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's the artwork. There he is.

It's a fucking cartoon skeleton. It's Brandon. No, but I mean, I think that, and for us, too, like, I think there's been many times in our band where people thought it would be done or counted us out or whatever. So there's a bit of that in there. But there's a lot of just like, like the intro of the record is just this sort of ethereal cool, like, soaring thing. And the only lyric is the end is not the end. The last song on the album is about, like right during COVID, I fell on like a wine glass and cut my arm open and almost died. No way.

Yeah, like in front of like my wife and kids and mom and everything. Brutal. Like should have died. Wine again? Yeah. Again. Yeah. With the, well, tell me about that.

I had a. glass of wine in my hand, first one of the night, not drunk. We were at my, my wife's dad's old, like, beach house in central California. And I went to step over like a baby gate because my kids were small and tripped and fell on the wine glass and it just like machete my hole. You can see the scar. Like the whole. Oh, show that.

There's that camera right there. Oh, that's, that's, yeah, that's an angle that might see you later. Yeah. But, like, should have died. So, like, I wrote that song about that. And then we were like, well, what if we spun it at the end? And like, what if you did die? So we spun it.

So the end of that song is like, as if I did die. So the whole record, one story? No, it's just like that sort of theme is intertwining. It's like all, a lot of it is like things that people tend to feel are final. Whether that's like a death or losing your job or a breakup, whatever the severity may be. A lot of times I think it's like. people were like, well, I'm done. I'm finished after this.

If your band broke up, if you lost your job, it's like your wife left you, whatever. It's like, I'm fucking done. What am I going to, like, there's no way I'll ever recover for this. There's every way you'll always recover from that. That's positive. Yeah.

That's nice. You know what that reminds me of? Last night. Hayato was very much telling me the end is not the end. So, okay, we drove here from Nashville. I'm sorting all this out. Sorting all the cameras out. I'm fucking sorting the,

guests out dealing with the press agents I ended up high art who did that but like I'm sort of I'm fucking at capacity and my brain when I'm at capacity just fucking parts of it just shut down like normal basic shit I go fully demented

in like normal day to day thing so we get here we park in fucking GA and we have to walk here a whole day for four interviews fucking talking for 12 hours brain is fucking cooked we go back

why is my car running I left my fucking car running all day get in and I'm like oh we're good it says I've got 55 like I'm a fucking idiot but we got 55 miles left on the tank so we're good

yeah it's the end of a festival and we're in GA parking so you know what it's like to fucking go and we I'm like we're fine pull out start getting into that you know 90,000 people leaving MCR traffic and the needle for the gas because we weren't driving.

It's not calculating how much gas I actually had left. It said 55 and it was going 55, 54, 53, like some fiscidious countdown in the traffic. And I'm freaking a fuck out. And these two are like, the end is not the end. It's going to be okay. And I was like, it's not going to. And it was.

He didn't get the chance to run out. I'll get, we'll get there. So when it got to like, it was. get into like five miles and I was like guys we got a fucking found uh oldy car park that one that's right at the outside of this and I was like we're gonna have to park and then go get a gas so then me and hiato went to go get fucking gas canisters my big fear about it was like obviously it's not right for the car yeah something in me yesterday was like I'm not going to drink today and I've never not drunk at a festival yeah ever because I don't know what it was I was like I'm not

going to drink like because if I drink and one of them drives a car and I was like I don't know it's a new festival first night I'll do it so we'll figure it out nice guy not a single one of them thank me for that but uh they did they did so then we me and hiatus going we get the gas and we come back and we put it in and we're fucking fine but like I was just freaking the fuck out it was not good so let me make you feel better please not to this extent But I've done the same thing. Yeah? I went to a restaurant with my wife, brunch of some sort.

Lovely. Mine. Probably. Most likely. And went back to the car. We were there for like three hours. Back to the car. I can't find the keys.

Can't find my fucking keys. Go back in the restaurant. Nope. Nowhere, nowhere, nowhere. And then I realized it's because they're in the car. The car's been running for three hours. Same thing. This is on PCH in Laguna Beach.

How did no one steal the car? I don't know. That's crazy. Keys in. Running. Unlocked. Steal me. Unlocked.

Oh, thank God someone else as dumb as me. Yeah. So that was annoying. I fucking, our house got nuked in that fucking ice storm, right? And fucking two weeks ago, some press agent

thought, this is news and did this big fucking press release for my house getting destroyed in the ice storm six months ago. You know what it's like. I want press when it's about something I'm doing, not something

like that, because then you get all the comments that are just like, no, the comments that are just like, this fucking dick, I deserve this, shit like that. So like, I, and since that... I fucking hate people. Oh, it's so bad, but since that, I have, like, I've realized yesterday I have an anxiety

about public perception now, which is a terrible thing when I do this for a fucking job, but the whole time, like, I got my fucking hood up, like, with these gas cans, because I'm like... I don't want to see me. No, and it's not, I don't wanted someone to see me because I'd laugh it off if they saw me. I was like, what the fuck's up?

I don't want a news article, like, because of how ridiculous that other one was. It wouldn't be. Craig Reynolds breaks down at Sonic Temple. My biggest fear was that we were going to break down because that was single line traffic. In the fucking, Craig Reynolds stops every single person leaving Sonic Temple. And it wouldn't have been that. It would have been.

It would have been. It would have been. Craig Reynolds can't afford gas. The end is not the end. The end was not the end. Good. We're here today. We got it. So, I'm not, are you a positive guy?

To a fault. Really? Yeah. In what way to a fault? Like, our crew hates it. Because anytime they have problems, I'm like, no, like, solutions. There is a solution. Yeah, it's high auto.

Yeah, like, there is. They're always, I mean 99% of the time there is. But, no, I'm not, I'm not negative at all. That's good, though. I'm, I don't know. I'm the opposite, I think. Yeah, what it is for me, I'm the way that you were last night, if it's just me in a shitty situation.

But if you're with... Yeah, like I can manage somebody else crashing out. Yeah, I think maybe I'm the same as that. Wow, crash out, Barrony. I did definitely crash out. I have times where, like, my wife loves this. I'll be like, like, it'll be like, it'll be like, it'll be. And I'm like, I mean, she's like, how are you not freaking out?

It's like, well, we're not going to die. Just like, that's your fucking motive? We're not going to die. I'm like, well, we're not going to die. Yeah, but we will figure it out. If you said that to me, my brain goes, I'd rather the fucking beat. I'd rather be dead

than walk to that fucking thing and then afterwards like I'm laughing and he was like can we joke about this yeah? And it was like

as we were walking back with the gas I was like no time happened and then the first thing I did when I saw this morning was like

it's time to joke yeah we can laugh about it now engine on engine off that's what he fucking do turn car off let's talk about

a writing process process process what do you process I say process process process what's your

English accent The writing process. It was good. You had two dialects in there. Should I just continue to see if it gets any better? Yeah. We're going to talk about the writing process of the end is not the end. With a British accent.

I mean, you could do as much as you can. I'm going to stop you when I have to. Have it enough? Yeah. We wrote the beginning of the album in Tokyo. That's terrible. I started horrible. I mean, it was as unlistenable as my voice, so you're pretty good there.

Well, at least now we know. Just do it in American. Okay. Do it in your native tongue. You wrote it in Tokyo? We started to. We were kind of like, it's funny because we, this record took like two years to complete.

We went to do a show in Jakarta, and our guitar player was like, that fight sucks. It's so far we should break it up. And I'm like, this seems unnecessary. And he's like, well, if we went to Tokyo and we could just write in Tokyo, we'll bring that our producer. It's like, that sounds like a great idea.

So we went to Tokyo for a week. I've got an Airbnb wrote every day in like the mornings to like two, three maybe and then just did Tokyo things at night. The best place on fucking planet Earth. Absolute best. So we did that and then we did the same thing.

My aunt lives on San Juan Islands was off the coast of Washington, sort of almost like to Vancouver area. And she has a, and her neighbor has a beautiful house right on the water. And I remember years ago, I was like, this would be a great place to make a record. Just like, anytime, let me know.

I was like, oh, okay. So she let us come stay at her house for a week, did that as well, and then just finished in LA at our producer studio. What do you bring to do those writing sessions? Guitars, a computer, we kept buying monitors and then just returning them. Amazon rentals. Nice. Yeah, but yeah, just like computer, little interface, a couple mics, guitars. I've never done it.

I've never done like travel somewhere exotic to write. I don't think we ever will not do it again. Really? How did it affect the writing process? People have asked, they're like, what can I, where can I hear Tokyo in the songs? And it's like, I don't think we like.

Thank fuck, I didn't ask that. That's why I hate doing this. But like, you know what I mean? I don't think you can hear like, it wasn't like, oh, like we use this thing that someone said to me in Japanese. The subway fucking thing. You know what it'd be hard though before a breakdown? The subway announcement that is the thing that says there's been a human event.

and it means someone killed themselves before a breakdown. So sick. Anyway, sorry, carry on. Yeah, that's sick though. We did use the Australian crosswalk thing. Billy others did it too, but we did it in our last room. The bird tweet thing. But it's in like a heavy riff.

Do you want to know, there's, I'm sure it's not on purpose, but in a very particular town in the UK called Gilford, right outside the station. It's the only one I've ever heard. There is the noise from the beginning of future breed machine by my sugar on one of those crosswalk things. It's literally exactly the same. I don't know why.

It goes, whet, weir, weh, what? Do you think they got it from that? No chance. I don't know what they're doing in fucking Gilford. It's like a fucking near Royal Windsor. Anyway, people say, why, where can I hear Tokyo? You can't hear Tokyo. You can't.

I think it was just the fact that, like, there was so much mental overload, like stimulus overload that, like, it just, it's like, like, waterfall of ideas. So every morning, like, everyone was, like what he got today. It's like everyone had something. And there was no like,

like lyrics were easy and like things were just going. I was at the claw machine. I want a huge small house. Do you remember we were at that restaurant that dudes were smoking sigs at their dinner table and it sucked? Yeah, what did you do in the evening? Everything.

We did like the Mario cart, like go cart thing. You did the one in the street. I've always wanted to do it. Yeah, we did that. A couple, there was like this awesome like in immersive, immersive like art exhibit thing we went to.

I think I might have done that one. Me and the wife went to Tokyo Disney one night. Damn, you did all the things that no one ever wants to do with me. Drunkard's Alley, all the good bars. Golden Guy, the little small ones. Yeah, they're a little tiny guy. Did you go to Death Match in Tokyo? No.

That's my favorite one. Yeah, we were, we tried it. It was like slammed. The line is fucking crazy. We went to that, I've used to that bar centipolia. It's like one of the highest rated bars in the world. No. The dude, like, makes ice cubes out of the samurai sword and lights the bar on fire.

Oh, I've seen it on, yeah, that's, fucking sick. We still need to go. Madison smokes so much weed and they're one of those countries where you go to fucking jail. I can't know who it was. Someone in our scene, he doesn't want me to say it. I've remembered who he is. He went to jail in Tokyo. I think it was for something else, but still like, yeah, you can't fuck with that. I need to fucking go. So anyway, like, you'll stay out and then what time are you waking up? Because Tokyo is a late night. It is. I mean, we're probably like, start kind of shuffling about a couple of our using our banners early dudes no matter what um which i can't understand uh especially if you have a night

out but starts shuffling around 10 10 30 11 coffee maybe some food and then it would just kind of be like start picking up guitars and someone will be like hey you know start riffing yeah talk me through the the writing process it's usually like you know roundtable vibe like everyone if you have an idea everyone throws their idea out, gravitate towards whichever one, kind of everyone is feeling that day. Usually, it's like chorus melody or like lyric idea. Every now and then it's different. Like this is a song called Children of Light on our new record that came from like the drum idea. Like it was just like the drum like pattern and it was like, let's do like a fucking primal like sepultero thing.

Then we got Max Kevlar to sing on it. So that was perfect. Holy shit. But it varies, you know, but it always starts with four or five of us at a table. And it's like, shoot the ideas and just go with whatever, whatever one is grabbing us that day. How did you get out of Max? Dude, it was a joke because the song is very, has very much like classic Sepuletura essence. And our lawyer knows him and his wife.

I was like, can you just see? Kind of shot in the dark. And it was like responded within the day and then had the, had the recording with, a video of him singing it in like three days. So sick. Like, you don't expect that. What a fucking legend. Absolute legend.

Really weren't. I heard rumors they were reforming. I heard... Like, OG? Like, now that the current suppleter is going away. Yeah, but then they said they were going away and then now they're still going. Yeah. I didn't, I don't know.

I heard rumors it was coming back. I mean, people would enjoy it. I would love it. But, like, even like Cavalera is... fucking Sepulchara to me. So the two of those watching either Sepulchura or Cabillera is like, I'm getting Sepulura.

Yes. But I would like you all together. I don't want to be that guy, but... It'd be cool. We did, like, years ago, our first tour in Europe was with Sepultera. But it was, it was Derek, but then everyone else was still.

I played a show on Igor's drums. What song did you play? I played our whole set on Igor's drum kit. Oh, okay. I thought you were... Sorry, I thought you were going on to the fucking... I thought you were like, It was like Switzerland and the stage was tiny And they're like hey

Obviously we're not striking drums Just play on mine Which I don't know if you ever paid attention to his kit It's floor toms Yeah like 16 inch up here The ride is here The high hat is like You didn't even change symbols

No I just I put my high hat on the left side That was damn I broke one of the symbols Which I was horrified at the time Because I'm like oh my God And then you realize that people are endorsed He was good for it back there Yeah, that's absolutely insane.

But hard a show of my life, but pretty cool to be able to say. What was your musical upbringing? Early it was like punk, you know, was into like, I mean, growing up early early, like dad got me into like Tom Petty, the Wolveries, like Roy Orbison, stuff like that. My own kind of musical journey started with punk and like, you know, it was like the germs and the joy killer. and fucking, you know, the misfits, the addicts, fucking voodoo glow skulls, like random punk ska.

Voodoo glows calls. Second voodoo glow skulls reference in like the last six episodes on this podcast. They deserve it. I fucking love that band. Yeah, they're great. I was like my first show I everyone too.

So fast for a scar band. Like crazy. Hyper. Like technically scarcore. Yeah. Which was my shit back in the day. Yeah. Secret scarhead.

But yeah, that's where it started that branched into like, blood into hardcore. bands and like Orange County Hawk Ocean was a huge thing like you know throw down 18 visions bleeding through bleeding through it was later you know death by stereo

stuff like that but um yeah that's kind of where it all started which came first singing all drums drums first drums first we me and Dan our guitar player were in a pop punk band also like at the beginning of Atreu and it was funny it was like which one's gonna happen first kind of thing you would have thought the pop punk band did

is that my phone I think it might be you. It was like which one's going to pop first, you know? Probably would have expected the pop-point fan. But it was like by chance, like, a dude was going to record us one day at Dan's house. He brought like his like, you know, 24-track recorder back in the day. And I had written a song and our singer couldn't make it. So I just like, all right, well, I'll just track the vocals.

So we have it. Insane. And Dan's like, why don't you do that in a tray? Because at the time, he was like, not many bands are like hardcore bands, metal bands, whatever, that are like singing choruses. Yeah. It was, especially in locally, too. I mean, there was like poison the well and there was Kill Switch and shit like that. But we kind of had barely found those bands.

Yeah. So it was just by chance. Damn. And then it kind of, I mean, became more of a thing. And if I'm being honest, like, my wife always fucks to me. She's like, you're a good drummer. She's like, if you gave a shit, you'd be a great drummer. Wow.

But I always just cared. I think I just started caring more and paid attention more to singing. I can play drums and I could confidently do whatever I wanted to do on records. It was never a thing where I was like, oh, man, this song, I just can't do it. Like, whatever I wanted to play, I could play it. But it was like, but I want to sing better. I want to do things that, like, are more impressive there. Do you think that was because it didn't come naturally to you?

Or did it come naturally? Wrong. No, sorry, singing. Like, is it? It came naturally, but it was like, I think I just started like, you start looking at your peers. And you start looking at, like, people to look up to. And you're like, looking up to, like, heroes, but also being like, I want someone to talk about me that way.

Yeah. I don't know if I have or ever will achieve that, but it's like, that's what in my brain. It's like, I just want to like, I want to just sing circles around people. Nice. I don't know where that came from, but for some reason that was in my brain.

What does a warm up look like? It's non-existent. That's why I love asking that question. Yeah. I literally, it's funny. I saw that Cory Taylor bit. You see the Corey Taylor, he's like, what do you warm up?

But he does like two things. It's very similar. What is it? I go, this is my whole warm up. Go. I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Offspring.

Yeah, exactly. That's it. It's like I can. Fucking notes on you, bro. I can tell, thank you. I could tell if I could sing all the notes I need to sing, and I could tell if my screaming voice is working. What happens if you can't hit the nose?

Hold on tight. You don't warm up more. You just go, fuck. I can usually feel it before that point. If there's a day where I'm, like, sick or something is obviously wrong, I will feel it when I wake up in the morning. And I'll do, like, you know, I might do, like, steam in the shower or, like, nebulizer. More of a, like, what's that little, the bottle thing that one's got?

Our base pair has one. I don't fucking... I might fuck around with some of that more. Yeah. I can tell before I get to that point. Fuck. Yeah. I'm kind of jealous of the skills.

Have you... That's a hard question to ask, because you might say, yeah. And it's like, eh. How much trouble? track you got? On me? Yeah. Love it when that's the answer.

Because sometimes it's like, there's a lot. There's background vocals. Like there's, there's like, like our guitar player Dan sings. If there's a third part harmony, that is like crucial. Yeah. It's there.

Because there's no third person. Yeah. If there's a gang vocal that there's only three of us on stage, that doesn't sound cool. So if there's something like that. What do you do? This is something that I always think.

I've actually never asked someone. You know, so the game. Gang vocal parts are integral to quite a lot of choruses and stuff. What do you do when no one's singing out there, but you've still got it playing? Like, is that awkward? We haven't really experienced it, but I will say, even if it's a tame show, it almost makes people go like, oh. Someone's doing it and they're getting in. I would feel weird as fuck, but.

And they're also, like, tucked. They're not like, it doesn't sound like they're there. You know who's the king of the fucking festival gang vocal part? And I love it. And people give them shit, but like newer Parkway Drive is my favorite parkway drive. And everyone is like, what the fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro, that song is metal Bon Jovi.

Yes. Voice grip is a fan. I love that shit. I am the guy where bands do shit that people hate. And I'm like, yes. You want to know what my favorite metallic album is? Oh, if you say, I mean, I'm thinking you're going to say Black album, but it's not. Lode.

Lode is your favorite. Obviously, growing up, I grew up as like a punk kid. So Metallica was not in my, it was like, oh, metal heads, right? As a young kid. So like, enter Sandman, won, all that shit. It was like, these are cool songs. But I'm like, I'm not like, fuck yeah. Yeah.

I heard Lode. They cut their hair and more eyeliner. And I was like, I can get into this. I'm going to do that. These songs are good. Really? Do you know what? And I love Metallica favorite band of all time.

Gets mentioned on almost every podcast. Yeah. Not at this festival, actually. once. Sort it out. Yeah. But I have an intention of creating a perfect sixth metallic album out of everything from load onwards. Because every one of those records, including St. Anger, has at least a fucking absolute

banger on it. And I think I'm going to make a playlist and I'm going to put it together and it's going to be like, okay, this is the secret sixth Metallica album that would have. have been talked about, not that I dislike the other stuff, that would have been talked about in those same first five. Load has some, but load also, for me, has some stinkers. I'm, I would take reload. Did King Nothing, dude?

King Nothing's a banger. Fuck. I would take even more insane than yours, I mean, not as insane as load as your favorite attacker album, but I would take reload over load. I mean, they're both sick. Fuel? Yeah, fuel sick. Fuel's fucking sink.

Unforgiven to bangers. Wait, what should sound like a ranking, then? I mean, it doesn't go that deep. I'm not, I'm not. You're not like a mega fan. I'm like a mega fan. I mean, I'll go, I'll kind of go load reload together. That's number one.

I'll go black out, black album. You're going to reverse. Honestly, from there, I'll go back. I'll go like Death Magnetic. I like Death Magnetic. Death Magnetic is good. It had some rips. The mastering is insane.

I think it's like the third loudest album of all the time or something crazy. First loudest album of all times. You know what it is? based on RMS or whatever it's called, I don't know, production thing. The loudest album of all time is Californication. Really? It's so insane. Like in terms of like the actual master,

but I guess because of the music context, you don't hear it. It's like, that's really fucking loud. We had a, uh, me and Dan, we're going to start a band years ago with a friend of ours named Grant. It was going to essentially just sound like Def Leopard. It was going to be me, Dan. This dude Ian Fowles, who plays for like the Aquabats and he played for Gerard Way and something like that. But anyways, we were going to start like a band at the,

essentially was just deaf leopard called master loud master loud you've just ruined that because that's a great name don't steal it please copyright it i'm doing it by the website after this interview i'm going to go online do you know who owns the website only flams dot com does that you that's fucking great direct straight to my like link tree thing that's because i thought of it on a whim in like 2020 and i was like i got to do something with this one day fuck it i'm buying it i've thought people did start doing that during covid just think of websites and buy them it was during COVID. Do you know, a friend of mine, his name's Neil Teeman.

And his whole thing was, uh, Neil fucking Teeman. So his website was NFT.com. And he ended up selling it after like years and years and years. How much? It wasn't like crazy, but it was a lot of money. It was, it was six figures. That's crazy. Do you know about that guy that Google's domain relapsed for like 10 minutes?

How do you do that? And a guy bought it. Like, how do you do that? You're Google. I know. You. In fact, all of my domains are through Google domains. Fire everyone.

I think some guy bought it and then they were like, hey, we need this back, obviously. And he was like, give me some money. They didn't even give them that much. I want to say it was like 80 grand. Because someone, if I can pull that up, please. Someone came to us a while ago and we're like, hey, I have the Atrayu handle and Atrayu.com. Like, I'll sell it to you. Fuck you.

He was like, I'll sell it you for 10 grand, both of them. And we're like, suck my dick. We've already had these other ones for fucking ever. Let me tell you about a little website called Slipknot1.com. Yeah, exactly. They're good. You know who has the best, two of the best handle finds? I don't know how they got it.

0-936, somehow just got zero, at zero. Oh, on Instagram? Yes. Wild. How is that not taken? And then a buddy of his, his artist names, no love for the middle child, and his handle is just no love. How do you find either of those?

There are people out there that own these handles from back in the day and they sell them. So someone hit me up to see if I wanted just at Craig. But I hate my name so much. It's like a meme at this point. But it's kind of sick, though. What's your inside? Like, Craig. It's kind of fucking awesome.

And now actually, if you're watching for some reason, I want it back. But my friend got one, Australian guy. He's got a podcast and stuff. But he's like into fashion. He's a fucking legend. His name's Nathan. And his handle is just at Nathan. That's great.

like it's Nathan, it's not Craig. Yeah. Craig actually kind of hard. I've never had, someone owns the downbeat.com. I don't care. Yeah. I don't give a fuck.

Because then I bought the downb-e. Dot A-T. I registered it in Austria. So, it's an absolute fucking nightmare when I have to tell people my email. What it is, yeah. And then they're like,

okay, so it's the downbeat.com and I'm like, no, it's the downbete. And then with my accent is rather like, what did you say? And then I don't get the fucking email. Do you have a skincare brand? It's Broitjeet. Is it yours?

No, no, that's just what I use. It's just what you use? I thought I had a little scout earlier, and I was like, oh, what is this? Brodagee is actually the dude from, he was in Midtown and Cobra Starship, Gabe. Oh, right, okay. And I just saw one other things online and liked it. It's very punk branding, and it was just like, I'm terrible with that shit. Like, I don't want, I never remember.

And they're like, oh, it's got an SPR. and all the good things for your skin. It's just one thing. My research was incorrect. Should I start? Should I know? Well, now you've got the entrepreneur shit. I'm like, what else are you doing?

Dude, it's fine. Once I take over the vending machine market, I'm not going to need anything else. Got anything in the tank. I'm trying to think, can I give you a spot for a vending machine? I don't. There's already one at my studios. Well, let's get rid of it.

There's two. Just fucking smash one up. Sorry, you guys got to get rid of these. You could pay like an enforcer to go and fuck up vending machines. And then that's actually a kind of a cool thing to get arrested for and then come back. write an album in jail. Everyone loves a, you know, comeback story.

They don't these days. There's no redemption these days. I don't care, yeah. You can't do it. You know, you should be able to have one redemption. Yeah, that's fair. One redemption is good. I'm like, okay.

Two redemptions, I'm like, you gotta get shoot together. You're gonna fix anything. You're gonna kill that other wife. I was gonna say it. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. We don't have to talk about that,

but you get one shot and even then, maybe you don't get one shot. I don't think you some don't even deserve that one shot. Tell you what, didn't even get one shot off. No. Thank God.

Thank the Lord. Wow. You make a news article about that instead of my fucking smashed up house. They don't ever go well, but people seem to like them. The interviews. I know.

I would rather, honestly, these type of interviews, I'd rather not talk about the same old boring shit and just have a conversation. That's what I fucking like. Are you having a good time? Yes.

I'm having a great time. I could do another hour if we were fucking allowed. We both live in Nashville. We could do that anytime you want. I know. It's kind of crazy. We did it here with the fucking ambient noise and all that shit. I don't want to cut things short,

but Jake just, Jake just texted that he needs Brennan in like 10 minutes. You are cutting it fucking short. Yeah, secret walls. I was, oh, yeah. What's that? I don't know.

He added it today. It's the Bob's Burgers, dude. Well, it's actually Bob. It's the dude that draws it. Oh, yeah. He's at all these festivals. Yeah. Oh, he's going to draw you.

You talk for like 10 minutes. He draws you, we will sign it, and give it away to a phone. Do you me a favor? Can you put an end? Yeah. I want a fucking Bob. Yeah. It's not for me, it's for you.

Do you see the fucking, did you feel the scowls? Excuse me? It's like a favorite show. We were actually somewhere else, and he was there, and we were going to go talk to him to get us drawn. Yeah. And he's like, well, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. And then we missed him completely.

I've heard he's very cool. Like, our guitar player got him to draw something for his wife last. Yeah, but you all like in a band at these things. I'm a fucking podcast. Hey, so are you, though. People don't know who you are. I'm not in a band. Not currently, but can you go in your way?

You want to play in my band? Can we go? Don't play drums? You got pirate shit? Yeah, fuck yeah. Fuck yeah, I'm in. All right, we've got 10 minutes. Let's do a little quick fire.

First album you overbought. With your own money. Not apparent purchase. Me and my brother split at the same day, Beastie Boys Lysen to Ill tape, and then also the Radiohead Creep cassette singing. single. Fuck.

No one has two that cool. Funny enough, didn't end up being like a huge Radiohead fan later. Love radiohead, but never like wasn't like

as fanatical as you think I would be starting with creep. But we did however like wear that fucker out. Fuck yeah. Dream gig to get asked to fill in for.

Food fighters? Doing what? Playing drums. It's kind of sick. Or singing for Avenge seven full. I could see you on both of those. Yeah.

I can see you on Avenged. Yeah. Just go fucking smart. Get the guy who's smashing up the vending machines to fucking get him. You're gonna fucking kick in.

I feel like that guy definitely knows some bad people. Oh, man? Yeah. You don't have to answer that. Just looking at him, I'd be like, I wouldn't want to fuck with him.

He's one of the nicest dudes on planet Earth. Nightmare gig to fill him for. You're at a festival and someone says, we need you right now. Playing drums for a Vennon seven fold. Yeah, fuck me.

Like a was his dad was in Zappa? Was his brother? Brooks is an absolute fucking freak shot. I'm at Sonic Temple, Columbus, Ohio. Lovely festival. We're having a lovely time.

Got any festival memories that stand out? Rockville, last week, was one of the better festival memories we've ever had. You know when you play a show and you're like, this was the best. This is as good as we get. Pyrro, fire. Like, voice felt good, performance-wise, banter. It was like, everyone had a good one. Even me, doing podcasts.

Yeah. Feel good about that one, guys. Yeah. Fire fucking comes up. Brandon from Retray. Thank you so much coming on Downbeat. we'll have to do it again sometime in the, maybe we're some wine. Dude, let's go to Arrington, do the pot.

Yeah. Thank you, bro. Have a great show. Absolutely. Thanks, guys.