The Downbeat - Caleb Shomo - Beartooth

Episode Date: February 27, 2020

My guest this week is Caleb Shomo, singer/songwriter of Beartooth. I caught up with Caleb in Nottingham on their sold out tour with The Amity Affliction. We (of course) talked about St Anger, as well as his time in Attack Attack, how he started touring at 14 years old, recording/producing bands and how that led to his initial solo project which would become Beartooth. Great chat, great dude. Peace!

If this sounds weird, it is because I broke my microphone and Pop Shield recording this last episode. Well, actually before I recorded it. So right now I'm dropping Raw Dog audio. Raw Dog audio loads with no Pop Shield, and I'm holding the condenser mic, so I'm sorry if it sounds shit. But that is the way the cookie crumbled. What up? What is going on? I got loads of stuff to plug for you, for me, to you.

and then I'm going to talk about the thing. If you don't like the plug-in, then think, sort of re-evaluate that this is free, and I am providing sweet, sweet quality time to you that I could be spending with my dog who is crying so much right now. I'm just giving her a lovely little pinky belly scratch right now. Got anything to say, Luna? No, I'm sure she will pop up in a minute.

First off, Stray from the Path is up for a heavy music award for Best International Band, which is crazy because I'm actually from the UK but that doesn't disqualify us I am simply an international man of mystery much like Austin Powers much like Austin Powers 2 the spy that shagged me

shagged means sex please go and vote for that I think it's vote dot heavy music awards.com or just Google it and while you're there you want to vote for Nollie as best producer and you want to vote for architects for whatever they're up for because they are the arch at best

and I've got new merch I got reprints, but different colorways, t-shirts, hoodies, www. www.the-downbeat.a-t, so it spells downbeat. If you're like, oh, hang on, I don't know if I'm going to look cool or cute or sexy, like a cucumber in this stuff. You can go to at the downbeat on Instagram, and you're going to see a suicide girl, lovely suicide girl wearing them. If you're a girl, you might be like, she looks cool.

I'm going to look cool, and I'm going to spend my money, because Craig is going for a very expensive time in his life, and I must give him my money. And if you're a boy, we got a suicidal boy on those Instagrams, you know, as a result of these things. That's a bit personal. Not going to delete it. My guest this week is Caleb Shomo from Beartooth,

from the band Beartooth. I caught up with him yesterday at Nottingham Rock City, where they had a sold-out show with the Amity Affliction and higher power, and it was very nice. And I would say, I would plug the rest of their tour, but it's all sold out because they're too big for their own fucking boots. But we had a lovely chat.

I think we spoke probably for about 25 minutes about St. Anger, which is my hobby. I like to paint Warhammer, and I like the album, St. Anger. I only like one of those things And the answer is Saint Anger What else do we talk about? We talk about how we joined attack attack

Yeah, stick-stickly When he was 14 The reason I'm humming and a-wring Is because I'm playing with my dog at the same time Because she hasn't been played with all day And I've got a limited time to do this podcast intro We talk about how we joined attack attack when it was 14 What touring at 14 years old is like

Which is as mental as you'd imagine it is and we talk about how that led to Beartooth, how Beartooth is run, which is very different to most other bands, tour in all the usual bollocks that I talk to musicians about, and it was really fun, and I loved catching up with Caleb. He's one of my favourite people to bump into at festivals and stuff,

because he's always so friendly. We have a good time. I can't wait to see him again, and thanks to him for coming on. Caleb Shomo on The Downbeat Podcast. That probably starts there. Yeah. So anyway, same anger.

Go. Immediately. Come in immediately with what you want to do. Okay. Tell me about it. So Connor was just talking about how Metallica is just the worst band. He hates Metallica. Get him in here.

And how his dad hates Metallica and his whole thing. And somehow, I don't know, I think he'd just seen the documentary recently and was just his mind exploded as anybody's would seeing this fucking thing for the best movie of all time it it really is it's a i mean it is beyond a piece of art and uh yeah so he became obsessed with some kind of monster the song and just been playing it constantly and we started i just play the riff it's sound check and he starts going duke duke do okay today we've fucking literally literally every single day some kind of monster comes on or we just walk around saying

like silence no more I don't know it's just become part of our lingo at this point and he starts playing the song and he goes I think it's happening and I go what he's like I've been listening to it so much ironically that I'm really starting to like it

happened to me happen to me happens to Tom Williams dude now it's just yeah so that's where we are he's I think finally crossed over into really understanding and appreciating some kind of monster as a track. The biggest grower of all time. It takes 15 to 17 years.

Yeah, a long fucking time to get into that. Dude, but I mean that... Has he got his snares on or off at this point? He's, I don't know. Well, he plays the solo now with the snares off. Starts the solo with no snares. But the St. Anger's solo. I have a St. Anger tattoo.

No, you do not. You are sick. You are literally a sick, person. For people that can't see that, it says snares off and it has the little, little Metallica, little things. What's it going to say about that? Oh, have you heard, he'll probably love this, on some kind of monster, there's a single version of it, which is on Spotify and Apple Music or whatever.

No fucking way. So is this podcast. Please listen to the podcast. Oh, you're already listening to it. Doesn't matter. So there's a, the single that came with some kind of monster, or like when it came out, and the song came out, is like four versions of the same track. Track three is actually mixed.

Really? And it's like the same raw files, but it's like... Somebody just actually fucking mixed. Alternative mix, and it doesn't sound that bad. Like, the snare isn't crazy. Dude, those... There are definitely some songs that if it didn't sound like they recorded in a trash can... Yeah.

That might maybe be... It's a rich... Possibly all right. Definitely riffs. There's definitely sections. Rifts. But like, does some kind of monster need to be seven minutes long? Does the song, oh, Frantic is like eight minutes long of the same fucking shit the whole way?

I've definitely never gotten through the whole record. I can definitely say I've never got through the whole album. We did a drive from, I can't remember where the fuck it was. And we had like three hours, 36 minutes left of like some big ass drive. You know, one of those ones where you just go mad. Yeah, fucking. And we're like three hours left of a 20, seven. seven hour drive and we figured out the maths which was how many times could we listen to the

song frantic until we got there and it was like whatever like we only have to listen to it 236 times and we just did it. We just repeated. You are sick. You guys are literally psychos. It's not me. He has a shitty idea. Tom is an actual psychopath. I love him so much. Yeah that's fine. Okay. Let's do that because when you start ticking it down it actually gets when you get to like 50 plus plays of saying angle left. You're like, it's not actually that along. Just got to get through this song.

This is how you schedule a drive. How many times are we getting through this fucking track? We did it with, did you ever hear, don't want a bad mouth him, obviously, but that Cortan band, the old drummer from Korn's new band. No.

I didn't know that was... It's been removed from all streaming services and YouTube because it was so bad that people were just like destroying it. And then he quit his... his own band. It's like saying anger on acid. It's like, I mean, that sounds really interesting. After this, you've got to listen to it. We'll dive into that for sure.

And I'm also got to say, love Metallica. I'm not just coming in here to throw shit. One of the greatest of all time. That record, I think everybody knows. That was just a little something else. But yeah, just had to say that. Metallica is the fucking God. It's literally the top five for me, Metallica. And I read something recently where they were offered the chance to remix it and release it as like a remix thing and the same with and Justice Royal we'll remix it and put the bass louder

and they just came out and said which I kind of respect although I'd like to hear both those things they went it's a point in our career it's what we'd be doing then for bad or for good and that's how it stays

and like that's the thing about honestly about that record is like I love watching that documentary because you just see this side of the band that's like these dudes are on top of the fucking world. They can just take years to make an album, then all the shit with James and like,

I don't know, and then fucking, oh, what's his face? Megadeth dude comes in at one point. Like, that's a whole bit. And when they go to fucking, they go to Jason News, there's new band.

Dude, and Lars is all fucking, like, been out. And he's jealous about it. 600 tickets or something. And then he's like, well, I thought this was going to be shot, but it's fucking sold out. And, like, people are stoked. I guess Metallica's the past or something like that.

I'm like, dude, okay. And then, like, two scenes later, he sells, like, $50 million of art. Yeah, and then they play a whole stadium tour on the St. Anger record. You're doing all right if you can pull that shit off. Like, things are going well. Right, 20 minutes of St. Anger. Right. Perfect.

I'll have done an intro by now anyway, but. Hi. How are you? Hey, pal. Good to see it again. I've been deliberately not talking to you because... Yeah. It's been difficult.

It's been difficult. We're in not enough. Which is where I kind of live and I hopefully won't live for much longer. Yeah. And your whole tour is sold out. The whole thing. How many dates? I believe it's 17, 16.

Nice. I spare back end on that. Yeah, not too shab. That's pretty cool. I mean, dude, we've never fucking sold out a tour before. especially pre-sale. I mean, we've had, I mean, we just did a co-headliner with motionless in the States, and we sold out all but four.

But even then, that's different. It's like, I mean, motionless has weight. Man, they bring fucking people. They bring so many VIPs. Like, you know, that tour was like a complete, just even keel thing. But this just, yeah, like an actual proper headliner selling out. And they're the biggest rooms we've ever done. I mean, we did, what, 3,600 people in Overhousing?

I know that venue Yeah That's the big one Dude I literally like Couldn't even enjoy that show Until the last like four songs I was just so like nervous and overwhelmed And like dude I mean you know

I'm sure you haven't been nervous for a show in fucking ages But like Islington Maybe with some of your drum parts you do But No just our biggest London headliner ever Same thing

The videos that was fucking dope That was sick went out and did his part at that, right? Yeah, that was sick. Yeah, it was very cool. Those ones, like you say, like just the big ones that are sold out. Absolutely. But, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's just surreal.

It's like, this isn't, I'm not going to process this until we've been home for like three weeks. There's just no way. Because I never thought this would fucking happen. Do you get the slow motion effect when there's like a billion people watching and then you feel like all your songs are too slow. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Do you, like, harness it Matrix Neo style, or are you like, I wish this song was 20 BPM faster?

I feel like at the beginning, I'm very panicky, and then I try and just like, no, like, take this for what it is, like you can actually think about it, and I don't know, it's definitely a Matrix thing, because it's just, I mean, it's too a fucking metronome. It's not slower. But you swear that it is like 20 fucking BPM down. And yeah, it is such a bizarre thing to happen.

But I haven't really had that on this tour, to be fair. Which is pretty nice. But the last time we played in, well, when we played in Columbus, we played like in the stadium at a festival. And that set, the whole shit. I mean, we played for a 30-minute set took 50 fucking minutes. Like, you know, it just felt so fucking slow the whole time, man. But I don't know. You get over it.

How many days you got left? You don't have to have these answers. No. You don't got the old trusty right. What's the London menu? We're halfway through. We're dead halfway. Roundhouse.

Yeah. Never been, never walked in there. It's glorious building. I haven't walked into there. Haven't walked into Brixton. I mean, literally done, the biggest room was forum. And then architects took us to fucking Wembley. And so like that's my gap.

I never have played any of those middle, like the big. you know, I guess the like legendary kind of like work your way up venues, you know what I mean? I feel like Roundhouse is the best one for sound. That's awesome. Actual sound. I'm very excited about that. It's like built for that. I saw Radiohead there.

I only got tickets because my friend like provides Radiohead's merch. And it was like 3,000 people, the smallest radiohead show they've done in fucking literally 20 years. Yeah. And the sound was incredible. But, so sick. I was asked, do you want seating or standing tickets?

I chose standing because that kid in me was like, yeah, fuck seating. And then I didn't realize they'd play for three hours. And my lower back was so sharp. My favorite band of all time. And I just stood there like, I'm in pain.

Yeah, dude, I'm no shame. Love watching chosen seats, man. Huge fan. We rock out there. Yeah. Now give me some fucking seating. Exactly.

I just like, I want to just sit, be the guy that I always am upset about seeing at a show. The dude just sitting there with the beer just looking haggard and like, oh, that's me and it's great.

I have so much more respect for that person at the show now. You're still pretty young though, aren't you? Yeah, I'm 27. You are getting older now. You are getting older now. No, I'm not the young buck. When did we talk? 2016? What, the one? The U.S. one? Yeah. That would have been

16, I think spring 16, because it was right before our second record dropped. And was that your, how many tours are you doing? That was my first US tour, Australia, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was 2016. And that was, that was Connor's first tour, too. Yeah. Yeah.

God, you're so much bigger than you were. That was, yeah. Small rooms. Yeah. And that tour even was like, holy shit, like this is fucking wrong. well the there was a the one in your guys fucking home in Long Island we played there

and that was a pretty big show that was a big one but then we played like is it jackpot in two we played some gigs man it was so sick though that tiny little one in Lawrence Kansas I can't remember what it's called oh in Lawrence oh it's somewhere not even what the Granada is like the normal venue in Lawrence

that's like a thousandish that like if you put I mean it for sure wasn't that but I'm just trying to think what the fuck it was it was like a bar. Do you remember that it was like a dive bar? Maybe it's just somewhere else in Kansas. I mean, it's all just blurred together

at this point. It was like the smallest show ever, but it was amazing. Yeah, that was a great tour. It was so good for us. My ticket was on that. They fucking ripped. That was a good time. And it was the perfect will be main support. I think we were. Yeah. It was the perfect main support

tour for us because barely any of your fans knew us. So and I think like In terms of like We definitely had our fans there Yeah I was gonna say But you had so many fans that

We were just like stealing Yeah but that's that's why you do it It was perfect I was like I mean that was the fucking All of our supports that we've got That's I mean I swear the reason We're even able to do this was that architect store It was like

I mean we've definitely made our name here And we do well But I mean I know like We can appear heel to the architect's fan base, and that fan base is loyal and massive. So, like, even if we grabbed, you know,

a few hundred people a show, it's like every little bit helps, you know. That was the last time I saw you. Yeah. Which show were you at? I came to Manchester. I came to Manchester. That's probably why I thought you lived in Manchester.

And then I stayed, there was a day off after it, and I stayed on the bus. I can't remember if I did another show. But, yeah. God, that was so big. Dude, that's, it was just like, man, I was so stoked for those dudes, man. Like, to see, I watch them every fucking night.

I mean, they just are still to this day, I think, maybe the best live metal man, maybe besides, like, slip knot. Like, I mean, they, but I don't even know. Like, dude, that show is just incredible. I could fucking suck off architects for years. Like, dude, they are just literally the greatest fucking live band, man. They're so good. They're so tight.

Yeah, and that was perfect. And to see all of that work, because they have been a band for so long, to see all of that work fucking come together for that tour, like Wembley and, I mean, these legendary venues. It was super cool. You worked for them for... The only reason I mean, Stray. Right.

Yeah, you worked for them for a bit, right? Like four years, drum-tecking. Yeah. And it was like 20, I think 2010 to 2014. Yeah, oh, wow. And I met Stray a couple of times on that, just touring. And we just stayed in touch, mutual. mutual like interests or whatever

and then when Australia needed a drummer they were like, can't find anyone in the whole of America. What about that drum? Yeah, it's not like they make it easy to find like, hey, could you play a stray set real quick? Well, Connor's done it. Well, yeah, Connor's also not fucking human. That dude's a psychopath.

But I mean, even that, he told me about that whole thing. I'm sure he talked about it on podcast when he did with you, but he was saying like his dad actually told me that day he was just like all right I got to play a stray set tonight and he like his dad was there at the show so he picked him up and like took him to a hotel room to like chill out or something

and he said he literally had headphones in didn't say a word and was just air drumming literally the whole day and apparently by the end of the day he was like broken out and hives like was so fucking stressed out and then went up and didn't miss it I was I was determined to play and then I

stood up and I passed out and it was like okay Maybe you're not going to play. What was it like for you playing your first stray set? Or like the first like time you sat down and played those songs with the guys. Like how did that go? Because I mean, those drum parts were like, they're wild, man. They're not the usual go-toes. Yeah, it's for sure weird shit.

And then I've tried to just make shit even weirder now. Yes, you have. The problem is that Tom Williams for how good he is as a manager and a guitarist is, is maybe sometimes one of the most unprofessional people on earth just in not in a managerial sense in his own band

like so I mean no that sounds bad sorry Tom but like this is how it went down we flew to Germany it was a stick to guns tour we had a band practice booked first practice ever with

in this guy's house and the guy looked like a serial killer and it was like a real serial killer vibes. Like, you know, have you seen Mandy? Because Cage film, it's like a horror film. Oh yes. So it's like the house from Mandy, but there's a drum kit there. Same sort of ominous music playing from some other room. Lights are crazy.

Yeah, bright red. Yeah. Anyway, we go through the set once and then Tom explains there's a few different ringouts. oh we do this differently, we do that differently, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Explains that once after the set. And then I go, cool, can we run through the set again? And he goes, ah. And I'm like, you've just told me all the bits that are like integral to the live show.

We've got to do that. Can we just do it one more time? And he goes, yeah, I guess. And then proceeds, we play the set, maybe half of the set. And he just plays, do you know what the death riff is that he does? he just goes do la na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na over and over again so we're playing songs this is the second time i've ever played them with the band and he's just fucking around and there's only one guitarist so that's all i can hear instead of whatever's supposed to be going on then i'm like fuck it because he's hungry by this point i was like fuck it let's just go eat because i know all the guys this is funny but i'm like it's on you if i fuck up tomorrow get to the show play the whole set perfectly there's one ring out at the end of Badgerna Bullet, which isn't on the CD. Yeah.

Forget it. Turn to the right. All of Sticter Guns, who I've just met that day, plus all of my band, all just flipping me off. Like, fuck you. Of course. Of course. And that was it. It was like a baptism of fire.

Yeah. I mean, as I would expect from a stray and Stig tour. I definitely played Chitter then, first tour. Since I moved to a click for like half the set or at least starting half the song time. a metronome now. I had to program the set, so it literally is like 183 for two bars, 185. Like I watched a live video where we all agreed that we played the tempos right and then

it mapped everything out. So it is a click, but it's not straight. Yeah, it's just you have a metronome keeping you. Yeah. But you got to know the changes. Yeah. So, and I did that in secret for a bit because everyone was kind of against it. And then...

So you were already on here. Yeah. Gotcha. And then we did a tour where everyone that saw us was like, that's the best of ever since Australia. And then I was like, hey, guys, played quite a lot of that to a click. Yeah. And yeah, now most of it's on a click.

Anything Tom starts isn't on a click because if we're playing to loads of people, Tom loves it to be vast. Yeah. And it'll be like, yeah, it's fucking ramp it up. Yeah. But for the most part, I'm like, I'm the most anxious motherfucker in the world anyway. And that having no click and playing like Hellfest with no click would give me a panic attack for like three days before it.

Oh yeah. Get there and then play everything too fast. Yeah, we've had shit like that happened, man. We were playing at self-help festival in Detroit. So like big festival, big show. We have an hour. And so I think we tried to play like 12 and maybe 11 or 12. I don't know. Long set, at least for us.

I mean, you know, usually I'm supporting, you do 30 minutes, 40 tops. Yeah. And second song in, the iPod, because we just run Metronome off an iPod. I like made click tracks, and then that's how, that's our, that's our only track sample thing we use. Yeah. Still. Still. Do it off a night five.

And that's what I do, but we're like a fucking small punk band. Yeah, that's just how we like it. I like it. That's how we do it. but the iPod, we now have a Velcroed to Conner's table, but it fell off at this show when it was not Velcroed, went under his pedal and just absolutely destroyed. Middle of the second song. Active golf.

And we, so we were just like, all right, well, let's play it. And so we just played the set. And I thought it was great. I love playing with no-click. Just like, even me playing live, my ears are barely on. I still have wedges with my vocal And I don't know I just I guess maybe I'm more used to it or I just don't really

I like feeling it out a little differently than on the click But yeah we've done it a few times And it's definitely different But the one thing I will say that's nice is Connor If he has a tendency to do anything with tempo it's drag So it's like we're actually just playing at normal tempo When we watch it back It might feel a little slow live

But like I don't know There are just some, I feel like certain songs that if we were like, if he was just really rushing through it, the guitar riffs would just be a nightmare. So like it really does. And he's, he's got great tempo. So I mean, it worked. But it's definitely different, man. It's just so much safer feeling having a metronome keeping everybody together. And it's like every band you've ever seen that are really tight.

It's definitely because they've played a matronone. Yeah. beyond foo fighters or something like that. Do you reckon footh fighters have no click? No, they don't even use it. Metal. It might be like technical. Yes.

Of course. Yeah. No, there's no way. I mean, a tech band like triggers and like the bit where it's like fucking precision. Yeah, absolutely all those guys are on click. Do you reckon food fighters have no click whatsoever? He doesn't even wear ears.

Hawkins just has wedges. All. of them do. I think the bass player has ears, because I was so infatuated with it. Yeah, but I mean watching them like, I mean you watch that 606 where they ran

through wasting light, it's just they're all on wedges, just jammed. Snick has no click as well. Yeah. But I feel like they would be a band that if they had click, it'd be weird. Like, because I love the that when they're live, like, they're hauling ass. And Jay fucking slams so he can like

pull it off. But I do know, I've definitely seen some shows. We did a little tour with them, I don't know, 2015 or something. And there were some shows where they were like, psychosocial was like, da, da, da, da, da, da. Just like hauling.

How can you not play that? How can you not play that? How can you not play it? Exactly. I would play it. Danna, dan, da, da. Yeah. Because it's so sick.

But I love it. I thought it was tight. Like, I don't know. I'm into the, like, live feel. Or, like, every time I die, like, when, uh, Like when Legs was playing for them, he played fast. And I thought it was real cool. I would love to see one Slipknot show with a click.

I would just like to see what would happen. But it's not going to happen because Jim doesn't even have ears. No. Jim has a wedge. Yeah, Jim just has wedges. I think, I mean, is he the only one without ears? I feel like there might be more people that don't have ears. I'm not sure.

I don't know. I just remember being surprised. I was like, wow. Yeah, same. He just had like some ear plugs and. And it was like... Slamming wedges. Oh, I couldn't really hear the start of sick tonight.

I couldn't hear Sid's stuff. And in my head, I'm screaming. Like, it's because you're trying to put it through a wedge. Yeah. But respect. That's so fucking old-scale. Yeah, and that's just the way they do it, man. I mean, I remember walking by.

They had a warm-up room. And they were just in their jamming. And I just hear Corey just in the room like 30 minutes before showtime, just full-blown doing, like, like the songs, just doing vocals just in the room with the guys. And I was like, that is fucking badass. It's like, it's almost like they're the biggest

local band on earth. The biggest local band. And I don't mean by like local, I just mean they got so big before technology that that's just now what it is. Yeah, and that's just how they do it. And that's just, that's how they roll. The biggest local band on earth sounds terrible.

Yeah, that might be a bit of a stretch. I apologize. So, right, you're 27. Yep. Let's go back. Let's dive in the ball. Let's go back to attack attack. Please.

How old were you in attack attack attack? I joined when I was 14 and we started, we got signed and started touring full time when I was 15. Like full time, I mean full time, which my dad told me this recently. I mean, when you're young, you don't think about it. You just get in the van and fucking go. I mean, and I also, I went to my freshman year high school and then I just went on the road. And my dad told me, he said, in the first year of touring

we did like 340 shows or something like literally we just never had days off we just that's all we did every day is just go play a show but yeah that that was when I was 15 How old was everyone else in the band? We were all one year apart

so it was 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and then so on and so forth as the years go by as time does but yeah we were I mean we were some young box man We were literal kids. Who the fuck is looking after you on tour? No one.

Dude, we were fucking crazy. It must have been into. If I was like, Do you ever get into lighting fireworks in the van on the highway? Because we were really into that. Like, this is the shit we would do when we like first started touring. We literally had to completely strip out a van. And this is like a couple of years in.

This isn't like the first van we had. A few years in, we had to completely strip. every single piece of upholstery, the benches, everything, because we found out that you could burn, like if you burn it with a lighter, it's just like, it looks like a Sharpie almost. And we just burnt dicks into every single inch of that van. Seats, like you flip down the mirror and there's just cock and balls everywhere. Jesus. As you do.

Like the Super Bad luncheon. Exactly. Yeah. And this is like, you know, we're all obsessed with Super Bad. We're kids. We're like, yo, that's hilarious. But yeah, we got really into lighting fireworks in the van, which we stopped because it started getting a little crazy when, like, a bottle rocket would fly by and, like, pop near the driver. And we would light smoke bombs while we're, like, on the highway and no one can see.

We pumped the brakes a little bit after that. I was 16 when I started touring, but it wasn't, like, touring, touring. Right. And I was a fucking nightmare psychopath. Yes. So I can only imagine what I would have been like if I was in your situation. I would definitely be dead, actually. Dude, and like we, I mean, we also, I mean, we got really big, really fast.

So it was just started in a van. We only did about a year of touring in a van. And then we warped 2009. We did a bus. And I believe we never went back, if I remember that correctly. Because, I mean, we were just kids. We have no clue what. is going on with the money.

Literally none. There was one dude who took care of it and he never told anybody anything. Jesus. So we were just like, all right, like fucking, well, we're not getting paid from the tour. Might as well just like spend our money on fun shit while we're on the road. Yeah. Dude, we were, I mean, we were just maniacs. We'd literally, we would do family dinners, like, just go out to the cheesecake factory

or go to fucking wherever with everybody. And we would be like, all right, our goal tonight is to spend over a thing. thousand dollars. Like, who, like this is what happens when you give kids who have no idea what's going on and they're just like,

well, we know money is somewhere, but we're not seeing it. So might as well try and get it where we can. We have a thing on tour called mom's not home or mom's not home, which is, it would be like,

someone will decide it when we put into a gas station. Mom's not home. And then you go and buy ridiculous snacks. Like this sort of snacks your mom would never let you have. Just poison, pure poison. In America is the land of poison. Like, oh, what color is that drink? Nuclear green.

I'm drinking it. Yes. Anyway, but your life was just one whole mom's not home. Yes, it literally was, dude. And it was crazy. And I mean, I basically just watched all of these people fall apart. And, like, honestly, it was crazy. I mean...

Are any of them doing anything now? Man, I don't know. Johnny Frank, who was in the band for like the first kind of half of the band. Most people know him as the guy with the Afro. Now I got him. Yeah, yeah. But he's doing really good. He records.

He still lives in Columbus. We still like Keep Up. Great guy. He does great. He records bands. And he does this side project called Bill Murray, B-I-L-M-U-R-I. And it's just like, I think he literally put. out records like multiple records a year just writes I think he writes a song every day or something is it

bill Murray themed or it's just called Bill Murray it's just called Bill Murray yeah I mean he's that's always he was definitely the he brought all the comedy to attack attack that was he was the guy who was like because it was all just what would be funny that's what everything was with the band it's like did it make us laugh or and seem ridiculous so like the dance dance beat parts and like just having random synth and like auto tune and he was like dude this would just be like hilarious like this would be doing it as a joke i mean because the rest of the world myself included thought it was real i mean it was it was so rooted in just like what would make us laugh and like what would be funny it definitely wasn't like a joke like when we were

writing the songs we were like yeah we like this but good portions of it were completely a joke all the bits that I think maybe were a joke, but definitely a joke. Yes, absolutely. And then, but he only did the first two albums. He only did the first two records. And then the third record was, I mean, almost done very close to how Beartooth Records are done. That record, I did most of it.

I mixed it, mastered it. And you can hear that it's a totally different thing. That was when I got really into Musugah, like between those records. So we were tuned super low. and it was like our guitar player whiting got me really into them so we were writing riffs like that and yeah but those first two albums

like with all those random like what the fuck like what did they just do or yeah like all that shit yeah I mean that was we just thought it was funny speaking of you being a producer I saw you internally scream when I pulled out my mess of cables

for this podcast oh my no I saw it happen there was judgment If you fucking saw My setup at home And the way I live Your life is nodding ahead Yeah I live my life in mess

Like I feel really Uncomfortable if everything's organized Like my desktop is a nightmare My Are you talking about your desktop on your Mac? Do you want to see mine? I want to get a real time reaction A real time reaction to my desktop

Okay now Look at that Now There's a line that I definitely have. It's doubled up on top of things. Dude, what the fuck? Okay, so you're very similar to me.

You might be a little bit crazier. My life's a mess. Oh, but dude, like, when I'm at home, I'm like, oh, shit, I need to do vocals. Okay. And I'll just, like, grab some cable that's wrapped in a bunch of cables and then, like, okay, well, I think this is the other end

and just yank it shit and, like, chairs are falling over. Oh, so I call that being smashy, which is just like if I need to get this cable from there and something's in the way, just pull it harder. Exactly. There's no movement. And then that's how I break things.

I broke a microphone before this podcast started. Pulled it out of the bag. Pulled it out of my bag. You're using one of the Beartooth original 58s right now. Just getting it done. Because I just called it being smashy. And what it was... Yeah, I'm a very smashy guy.

My friend Matthew Tag, who was Architect's Guitar Tech, and now he's 1975's guitar tech. And when I was drum tech, and when I was drum tech, he was like, you're just so smashy, and that's where everything breaks. And prime example, I had a nice road microphone with a shock mount and a pop filter thing in my bag. It was covered in cables, and instead of, you know, taking some cables off, what I've done is I've just pulled it as hard as I can. It's been smashy, and I've broken a 300-pound microphone. Very nice. Which is, and I don't give a fuck, I wouldn't change it for the world.

I'll be smashy till I die. Dude, Sam. And, like, that just to me is how, I don't know, for, There's something of, Jesus, fucking, the room's coming in. But there's just something about it for me of like, if things are super pristine and super clean and super, I'm like, that's not me. That's not the environment that I grew up writing in. I grew up writing in like my bedroom where I had this little, you know, whatever, the computer speakers with the little sub that like your dad buys. Logite.

Yeah, exactly. Literally, though. 5.1. Yeah. The Logitex and like a laptop and just cables and guitars thrown around and like that's just how I function and like that's where I feel comfortable. Before before I knew that downloading music was bad when Napster was big, I used to have a phono out cable that came out of my sound card. I would download songs on Napster. It would take me like fucking 10 hours to download like six mate feed, kill, repeat, slip.

not songs. Yeah. And then I would plug the photo cable into the back of a tape player and then I would record the tape. And then so I had all these,

I think I found them last one in my parents' house. Like, yeah. Like taped albums, like original pirate shit. Taped albums. Dude,

that is the most vintage pirating set up I've ever heard about that one. It took so long. And obviously there's no game control. So I've just got like, oh, and Justice Rule and it's like and you're just fucking jamming,

yeah. Loved it. Amazing. So, When did attack attack? Look at me getting back on track. I'm a professional podcaster. Look at this guy. Have you seen me look at a note? Have you seen me look at any notes?

All up in the steel trap, baby. I never write a note. What? And now I forget, because if I had a note, I'd look at it. Attack attack. Attack, attack. When did that go? My last tour was 2012.

When was the first Beartooth album? First Beartooth album. EP, whatever. EP, whatever. Okay, uh, 2013. So you didn't have that much time off? No.

When I, like, announced that I was leaving attack attack, I put up a Beartu's song. Because originally, the, Beartooth was never supposed to be a band, like a real thing. It was just,

this is like my kind of, like, you know, like the producers that, like, make records. Yeah. Doesn't Will have a band that he... The one is about 11.

Right, but you, you know what I mean. Fit for an autopsy is Will. Yeah. So, like, shit like that. It was just going to be, I'm a producer now. That's what I do. Writer, whatever. Yeah. And this is my just, you know, because I love playing instruments, but I never get to play instruments in bands because I always, like, ended up singing. So,

like, basically, yeah, it was just, I love playing, I love writing songs as a whole. And this is me just doing whatever I want to do. So I was really into, you know, eat it and stray and chariot and like things like that so i that you know i made this bear tooth like a couple tracks and um yeah put it up and was just like hey like i'm not going to be done making music maybe i'll do a couple weeks just like try and jump on some tour like with some buddies when i'm free but i'm going to be a producer and that's what i'm doing and then uh yeah i showed some people i was I mean, I showed like my close friends and I showed Shapiro, Dave Shapiro, our U.S. booking agent.

And I was just like, hey, man, I'm like doing this thing. Could you maybe just throw me on like a, you know, whatever tour you got for a couple weeks if I'm going crazy? He's like, sure, no problem. And he was like, this is actually pretty good, man. Like, if you want to do something with it, let me know. I'm like, all right. And then I showed Tom Gutches, our current manager.

And he who had, I've known for. forever. He tore managed attack attack back in the day. Just like was a promoter of shows in Columbus. Always been in the scene. And he was like, dude, let me manage it. Let me manage it. And I was like, no. Like, I'm not trying to do anything with this.

Like, I don't need a manager. And the way it really started happening was right when I said that I was done with attack attack, John Feldman, the producer, who I'd been working with prior, hit me up. And he was like, hey, move to L.A. and start

working with me. I just moved to Red Bull. They started doing, they have a label now, like, be a writer. I was like, sure, I would love to. So he's like, send me like a bunch of different songs, different genres. He's like, write something that sounds like one direction,

write something that's like straight Britney Spears, write like a fulky thing, right, you know, give me like any metal, like whatever you got. Just send me like 20 tracks. I was like, okay. So I sent him a bunch of songs. Then there were, I think I have a problem. was in there, like the original Bear 2 song.

And he was like, whoa, like, what the fuck is this? And I was like, this is just something I'm doing on the side. It's just kind of like my metal outlet. And he was like, this is great. Like, let me sign this. Like, let's do it. And I was like, dude, I was very, very hesitant. And it really was Tom badgered me enough.

He's like, what? Worst case, I get you some free guitars. And I was just like, all right. Like, well, I mean, I'm not going to, why I do anything. Yeah, I was like, I'm not going to say no to that. And, dude, I mean, the day that I told him he could start managing, labels hitting me up being like, yo, I need to sign this fucking Shapiro. Like, everybody just started getting involved. And I was like, oh, my God, here we go.

And then I started writing more songs and I was like, you know what? I really like doing this. Like, I love having this project that I can actually. be writing all the songs. It doesn't get weird with splits. Because that's always a weird thing with bands. It's very just black and white if this is going to happen. So I was like, fuck it, let's do it.

And I got some buddies. And just like who used to like some text from attack. We did one little like two week, three week tour with the ghost inside. Dude, our first tour was hilarious. It was just literal cool hardcore bands and then attack attacks singers new band. It was Ghost Inside, Zabalba, Reign Supreme and Relentless from Australia, and then us. And that was our first tour. We didn't go over great.

But it was really fun. There's not a single band on that tour that I would put you with. No, and like, but I don't know, like, that's, I think we somehow kind of started getting in, Oh, yeah, ghost inside. Oh, yeah, ghost inside. But like Zabalba. Like Zabalba and like Rain Supreme and shit, like hardcore bands. And I don't know, somehow when we started, we kind of got into that world. And, um, yeah, I guess that's where we like kicked off.

But after that tour, I was like, I fucking love this. Like, this is so fun. There's no pressure. there's no like goals. It's not weird. Yes. It's just like the new thing happening. It's excited.

She's playing with my asshole. Yeah. There's just new things you've never tried before. Just pretend that it's normal and that's what you used to do. You're crying a little bit, but like you might like it and you're not sure. Yeah, my ex used to punch me in the fucking face all the time. Go for it. Sometimes you got to experiment, you know.

And yeah, and then it took a long time to get signed because honestly, dude, the label thing was crazy, which I just, like, I did not expect it. I know people must think I'm bullshing, but I'm not truly, like, if you know me as a person, I'm not the like, I'm not a confident, like, yeah, I'm in fucking, I'm starting a new band and we're going to be enormous and I'm going to get this huge record deal. No, I was just like, I assumed we'd signed to whatever small label. and it was just going to be a simple little thing. And then these bigger labels kept getting involved. And, I mean, it went from, like, you know, a couple of the smaller, like, indie labels to, I mean, some majors. And then, like, we got in, like, a bidding war.

And, like, dude, I was just totally fucking mind-blown that that was even happening. And, yeah, then we just started. And I mean, you paid juice with attack attack. And I'd done it before. You just paid your juice earlier than most people. Right. I mean, I was done. I literally, well, we had a full ride, full up and down by the time I was 19.

I mean, we went from, you know, in a van to headlining some like 2,500 cap rooms to, yeah, this is like I just was over it and I left. And then they kept going for a little while. And then I like came back and. did like the last four shows of some tour. It was really weird. And yeah, I don't know. But I'd have like a whole ride.

So honestly, I credit attack attack so much to how this band works because I feel like that was me learning exactly what not to do. As you've heard from the absolute idiotic things we did like with our money and with, you know what I mean. I just learned firsthand like what not to do and how I wanted to tour. was ever going to tour again. And that's why I think, I mean, like, our camp is just, it's such a good vibe. Everything is black and white.

There's no, like, weird gray areas with anything. And it's just, this is what we do. Everybody's happy and we love to rock. And it's simple. It's funny. You say the learning what not to do thing, because I talk about it all the time on the podcast. It's like, there's a book that I read where this guy, Malcolm Gladwell, wrote a book

called Outliers. and it was like basically the premise is how many hours of practice at whatever whatever type of practice doesn't even have to be like if you're a tennis players not like just playing tennis or whatever

like putting in tennis is a shit example take that back anyway 10,000 hours of like your craft is what it takes until someone makes it so let's do the maths and in 15 minutes we have to have to be.

to end. We might have to hit a little pause. Oh, we can hit a, oh, we can pause and come back. Yeah. That's professional. I'm really enjoying this.

Let's do this and then we'll come back. Yeah. So, let's say you played 320 shows. And to be honest, if you're on a bus and you're doing whatever, that's 24 hours of learning what not to do per day. Yeah.

That's you at one year of touring. You're at 7,680. hours of learning what not to do. It's not bad. Two years. There you go. Right. I mean, it's...

Pose your Jews. I've done the maths. Thank you. If there's any haters out there still? I've done the fucking maths. Getting my back. I appreciate you, man. Well, yeah, I mean, that's literally what it was.

It was like... You know, I got experience being in front of big crowds, which was really helpful. I, you know, got a lot of experience with writing because I, I mean, I... first record I didn't write a lot when it came to the songwriting. I was more of just like kind of the new guy and I'd like play some synth. I wrote, I think I maybe wrote like one song on the first album. And the second record, because right after the first record is when I hit up Joey Sturgis, who we did the album with, and I was like, hey, I really want to do demos.

What would, what should I get? It was just basic. And he's like, yeah, I just get Q-Base and a little interface and it'll be good to go. and dude, I was hooked. It became my drug. I mean, I remember the first time I got, like, my setup and plugged in a guitar into an amp simulator. And I was like, had like, like, easy drummer. And I was like, oh, my God, it sounds like a band.

And then I just got addicted to writing songs. Then I got addicted to mixing. And then it just, like, you know, it all just flowed out. But I just learned all of the things I needed to do to do Bear Tooth, really. through all those years, which is pretty convenient. All those hours. Do you still do any mixing now,

other than Beartooth? I do. Whenever I can, it's just hard to get gigs because, like, I mean, I used to do it a lot. Last thing I mixed properly,

did I mix any albums or so? I mixed as one single for, like, my buddy Waka, who used to be our touring photographer, but he does our music videos. He had some buddies in, Japan that were in a band and I was just like yeah just send me the tracks I'll just mix it like

I'm trying to get really back into it and uh other than bear tooth records I don't really do much mixing I suppose people just think of you as the singer from bear tooth now there must be kids out there that don't know that you are bear tooth yeah I mean that is definitely true I've I've had what we posted a thing the other day um on like Instagram like an Instagram video because I have a studio with me on the road and just like a, you know, pretty basic setup. You made me bring all this dog shit equipment. Right.

Well, I have the same fucking FocusRite, baby. That thing rips. And in fact, you were allowed to do that plug because I didn't pay for it. So thanks. Focus Right. Shout out to Focus Right. The Downbeat podcast. Sponsor the Downbeat.

I would love a eight pre-Clarit pro if you're listening. If you're tossing anything out. Because you gave me the little two input one and now I'm addicted. Anyway, sorry. But yeah. So, you know, I got a little setup. And we were going over. it and just did like a basically a rig rundown where I was like yeah here's my computer here's how

I do it um you know all the components and we posted the video and of course I like see a few comments they're like oh this is cool like cool to see how it works and then like people like I can't believe he doesn't let anybody else contribute like what a dick like you know what I mean I've got that for any time anybody finds out that I'm the guy that's done at all which I do find kind of funny and like I mean it is what it is that's part of just how this thing was set up and I knew that was going to be a part of it

but I feel like people just do not realize the reality of how it actually works like I do write the songs yes but there is so much fucking more that goes into this whole operation than writing songs and there's no way

you're writing everything that Connor does on stage because the man is a psych about that's like when I write drums, like what you're hearing on the record is the songs. Like, bass level, simple, like the riffs, the drum parts. Like, I want you to just be able to take the song in as easily as you can, like, processing-wise. So when you see it live, you understand what Beartooth really is. Yeah.

Which is like, what it's, well, I guess what it's really become. And what it's become is me kind of setting out this bass layer of these songs for the dudes to like have their fun with. So like why I was so excited about getting Connor was that like I would just watch him play with being as an ocean every single day of Warped Tour 2015. They had these scrims. I'd just go behind the scrimm and put some earplugs and just sit there for every single set because he never played the same show.

Never. It was just watching this kid absolutely rip. It's like he's in his fucking basement. Exactly. And so like that's kind of like we both know. how it works. And whenever I'm writing parts or anything, he knows that he's very free to do what he wants with that. As long as the

bass, you know, he's got the pattern of the kicks going with the guitars and whatever. But constantly throughout the set, I'm always just like, Connor, let go. And he'll just fucking unload for two bars and then come back on the one. And, you know, then we have all the backup vocals and like, I write the songs with the live show in mind. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I To me, it's just like, that's the only time I get to play instruments and write songs anymore. Like, I just don't have time to write songs for anybody else.

And that's my absolute favorite thing to do in life. So, yeah, I mean, it is, I mean, it is me. Like, I play the drums. I play the guitars. I do the vocals. I mix it. But at the same time, it's like, I'm not just shutting out the other guys. It's like, they're hearing the song throughout the entire process.

And, like, they get credits on the record. Like, the last album, um, Like Ashi and Cam, I think, have like executive producer credit or something. But, I mean, they're constantly listening to the shit. So they would come over and be like, all right, like what is good? What is not? What could use work? And they're like helping me out through that.

And it is definitely a collaborative effort, but just I guess in a different way of like the classic band where everybody gets in the room, puts on their instrument, and they just make noise and then eventually a song comes together. You know, it's definitely more of a thought out on a computer in the room. a studio songwriting process. And then, yeah, we just... But until everybody's, like, stoked on the material, it's not going on the record. Yeah. You know.

That's how every band I've ever done before this band has been done on a computer and then stray, we literally just write in a practice room. It's like, again... How do you like that compared to it being more predetermined? I thought I was going to hate it, but we've got to the point now where me and Tom can write a song in roughly 10 times the amount of length of the final song. We'll be like,

there's some songs on the last album that came together in like minutes. So you guys just have the magic. Like, yeah. I mean, because you, that is so rare. Tom will fly, like, when we're getting sort of halfway for an album cycle, Tom will start flying to the UK, before tours and I'll start flying to Tom before tours and we'll start putting we'll start just jamming

and sometimes it's like Fortune Teller which is in my opinion the best song on the last album was written so quickly Tom just goes picks up his guitar goes I was like oh that's sick and I'm like what can we do for a verse and I was like I'm playing around with this paradigil thing and I just did it and I just did a normal

parodil and then he just goes gung gung gung gung and i was like oh let me try and follow that with the kicks yeah i can't but let's pretend i'm following it with the kicks yeah then we just went verse course verse course oh shit we need a breakdown tom spits a breakdown and we were like fuck that's the song yeah there it is and dude sometimes that just happens man like our song one of our last singles uh you never know i wrote with uh this dude drew folk from l a goes by wizard blood and is like writing stuff But he's a killer writer. And I ended up writing a song with him.

And we just went and got coffee and talked for like three hours. Went into the studio space that I had in L.A. And wrote that song in 40 minutes. Whole song. Just there it was. Lyrics, whatever. And then I literally,

I think like three days later went over to his house and like changed a couple things and recut a vocal. But like, dude, sometimes like the songs just write themselves, man. and like it doesn't take long. I mean, on this tour, so I've, like the new record

musically is almost finished. Like our new album is almost done. I just need to put vocals on it, really. I mean, on the motionless tour, because before I just had like a laptop and headphones,

like little interface, and I was like, I brought out some like little Genelech monitors and like my actual trash can from home and got like a nice pelican so it's all safe. So I have basically like the rig that I'm used to at home just with smaller speakers.

And I wrote five, like, produced and finished instrumentals in the first 10 days. And I think I have 15 full, like, finished instrumentals now. Jesus. With two, with vocals. So it's just like, dude, sometimes it's fine. September 2018. Oh, so, yeah, you're on track. Right, it's been a while.

I was going to say, I thought you were really early, but you're not. No. A bit early, but. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Want to hit pause. Yeah.

So, yeah. Just did the meet and greet. There was no music. So Connor just put on St. Anger on his phone. And dude, he's obsessed. We're back. He's fully obsessed. I swear.

But yeah, that was that little pause. Saint Anger was going on while the meeting greet was happening. The whole time, yeah. The whole album started frantic. Yeah, just started from the top. Well, he ended up having to skip a few because he needed some kind of monster. so he had to jump through a couple. Boom, boom, boom.

Dude, I mean, that shit is iconic, man. You can hear like the hiss from the analog because the game is so low on the guitar. The snare wires are just fucking boom. Listen to the mixed version, though. It's not, I mean, the song still sucks, but the raw stuff, the raw files must be quite good. Dude, I

I would kill to get those files and be able to mix them. Nail the mix. Sane anger, are you kidding? That shit would sound fucking massive. We touched knees then and now we have to have sex.

Yeah. It was very tense. We have a quick shag. Yeah. I don't even remember what we were talking about. We're talking about you, Beartooth. It came to a head.

That bit's fine. That bit's done. Yeah. What do you got, professional interviewer? God. You, look, this gap has thrown me off slightly. Yeah.

I had more things. I'm sure I had more things. Let's just talk about random shit. Okay. Fire from the hip. When you're on tour, do you drink alcohol? Yeah. I definitely not like we used to.

In the earlier days, we had our party phase. But now I'm just like, I'll have a few after. this show, but I'd rarely ever drink before we play, especially when we have long set. It's just like, eh, I don't know. I don't want to, like, be groggy. I know some people that's like... So many people do it. Yeah.

I can't do it. What was it? I mean, I know, of course I'm bringing up Sam again, but I think he said he has, like, gin and tonics and tequila on stage, so he's like, gets like the up and the down. I'm like, man, that's fucking... That dude's a machine. Yeah, and he's a powerhouse. He's often drunk.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it depends. What? I think I maybe had a shot of whiskey before we played the 3,600 show because I was so fucking, like, on edge. I was like, all. And it didn't help at all. It probably just made it worse. But for the most part, yeah, you know, after the show, we've been having some Prosecco lately.

So I'll have, like, a nice glass of Prosecco. to have a little celebration. We got some scotch. We were in Scotland last night. I had like finger of scotch on the rocks before bed. Nice. What, okay. I'm just going through my questions that I would have as someone who also tours.

What's your cut off for eating before you play? Oh, like four or five hours. Seeing it's have it rough, don't it? Long before we play. What did you eat today? Oh, God. Taco Bell. One of three in the UK, I think.

Yeah, it was. I've been eating great out here And then like I don't know Connor was just like All right we're all going to Taco Bell And I was like All right fuck it all you Taco Bell

And it was delicious Immediately had to shit As you do To manage to capture that Yeah that was that was at like 3.30 And I didn't even realize We're on early today We're on like fucking 830

Like that's almost like a close call for me Like eating at 330 on at 8.30. That's, the one thing about Rock City I love is the shows are so fucking... Dude, I wish we could play at like 5 o'clock every day. I love playing early. I would rip. I would love to be...

I play so much better in the middle of the day. Wake up, it's like, maybe like four hours after you wake up, three hours after you wake up. Like, I need just enough time to get my voice in the ballpark. And a coffee. Yeah, one song in, and then, you know, it's just there and we get through the show and it's fucking great. Like Warped Tour, dude,

I love playing early. It's great. There was a line where it would be... Like when we played at like 11.15, that was a little much. But, dude, like 1 o'clock in the afternoon, 2 o'clock, love playing that. You've got the whole fucking day to do whatever you want.

You can go back to the bus and watch a movie. Dude, it's great. It's fucking... It's killer. What time do you go to bed at on average on a tour? It depends on the tour. I usually, because I hate... Like, I love playing early.

Like, I just hate waiting around all day for the show. So, like, this tour, I've been pretty bad. I've been either going to bed. Some nights at, like, 2.30, which is pretty common. Between 2 and 4 is, like, probably pretty average. Some nights I've gone to bed at 7.30 in the morning. But, like, even the nights... So, like, last night I went to bed at, like, 2.30 and woke up at 1.20-something in the afternoon.

And I was just, like, it doesn't even matter when I go to bed. I'm going to wake up in the afternoon. bunk sleep but this is the thing i was always the guy that would go to bed early and then i would wake up early to go to the gym and then i realized on this last tour that i was just no not this last tour like a few tours back i was like i am always so tired because i'm going to bed early and then i'm getting up early and i'm going to the gym and i'm getting tired and then i'm waiting around to do a headline set so this last tour we did i flipped it and i was going to bed at six seven a m every day yeah getting up at loading so like when would you go to the gym

I would go after sound check. Oh. And did that not affect? I'm curious as somebody who works out religiously on tour, does that ever affect your show? Days that I don't work out, I play badly. Really?

Yeah. It's like gets me limber. I get all my shit. Don't play badly. I just... I mean, I get that. I play worse. Yeah, I definitely get that.

Because like, even for me, I'll have some shows where until seven songs in, I'm like, okay, I feel loose. and want to start moving around more. But like, I don't know. I've always thought working out on a show day would just like drain me. But I don't know. I mean, I guess you've been doing it regularly for years, so it's just part of your routine.

Like, I guess if you don't do it, yeah, you feel like you have less energy. Less orphans going throughout the day. When you messaged me earlier to see if we could do this at 2.30, I was on a leg press machine after squats. Beef castle. I was like, yeah, not going to make it. That's in 20 minutes. Hey, I respect that. what you got to do. The minute you told me

I literally, I thought I super-setted my last four workouts altogether, went home, I slammed down some rice and shit, and I wasn't even hungry. Did you nail your peanut butter that doesn't happen until about 11 p.m. So is your, are you

full, like, diet to the minute kind of person when you're home? Most of the time, yes. Okay. But this last sort of December until now I've been on a fucking psychotic like you just been on like a food bender food drink yeah everything bender um just letting off some steam course had some shit happen i want to let some steam fair enough put on put on a lot of

pounds so this from like last week i started counting my calories and everything again and i've got like i'm going to book myself a holiday before we go on tour what's your next tour amity in the States. Oh, very nice. But I'm going to book myself a holiday in like March. Yeah. Somewhere warm, maybe. To just give me something to shed a little bit of weight for the beach.

Yeah. There you go. Because like last night, I slept like shit because I was so hungry because I'm on this diet. And then every bone in my body is like, just go downstairs and make a sandwich. Yeah. But I need like, I. No, I didn't. Wow.

I just lay there awake starving for the whole night. Dude, so I've had that, I've been trying to be better about eating before bed because I'm very curious about all this diet stuff with you because I'm used to be a very big boy. And you have, you are very, very smaller than last time. Yeah. Not last time when I first met you. Yeah. And even from then, like I'm constantly trying to get better, but the, I want to get like in fucking fighting shape for this next record. We dropped those promos.

No shirt. Big lion chest piece. Dude, just firing from the hip. That's what I'm trying to do. But, yeah, last night I just crumbled. I crumbled. Play the show. I had, like, a great lunch.

Had, like, a bunch of clean sushi. Felt super good. Oh, it's like my favorite meal in the world. Same. And, yeah, played the show. After the show, I had, like, a glass of Prosecco. I was like, or no, we had some champagne because the promoter got us some. And I was like, cool.

Went up into the back lounge. Had another little sip. And I was like, you know what, I'm good. Like, I'm going to just like go to bed. And I remembered that after the show, the hardest part was that we finished a set and our assistant Nick comes in with like five domino's pizzas. And I was like, oh, God. I made it through the whole like green room, like closing up the green room, didn't eat anything. I was like, okay, they're going to eat all the pizza, it'll be fine.

Go downstairs. And, yeah, it was just staring at me. And I ate probably five pieces of pizza and then went straight into my bunk. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Eating before bed being bad is for the most part a myth. Really? But there are things.

I feel like for me, that's how I like lost the weight. was when I swear like if I would go to bed hungry I would wake up I would sleep better I would feel I wouldn't wake up with that like thing that's still just the calories in versus calories out thing okay because you were hungry so you would have eaten more and what you didn't is you didn't eat so you were in calorie deficit

exactly you could have that calorie deficit all the way in the morning and not eat until 5 p.m. and then eat dominoes before you go to bed and as long as your calories in versus calories out you're fine see that's when I first started losing weight it was all my fitness pal that's calories in calories and like I've never done well to be fair I've done different diets I've done like but that was more personal like I went was it pescatarian when you just eat fish I did that for a while then I was vegetarian

then I was vegan for I don't know a year and a half and then I just went back to eating whatever and just trying to eat like cleaner. But yeah, like the fitness pal stuff, that changed my fucking life. Dude, I mean, I lost so, I have fluctuated so many times, man. When I was, I was big when I first joined attack. And then we did one tour where I was real big. And I was like, all right, let's get it together. Then I lost a lot of weight.

And then I started getting like unhealthy about it, lost too much weight. and I think, and my skinniest, my heaviest, I was probably like 255 or 260. And my skinniest, I was 160. And I was like 160 on 6-2. It just looks a little weird. That's fucking great. It was very, yeah, it wasn't healthy in the slightest. And then, you know, Bear Tooth, we started touring and we're partying and I'm eating

garbage every day. And then I got back up to like fucking 250 again. Then we, during the aggressive album, I like, just was like hardcore. diet, no alcohol, like no extra calories, anything and lost like 30 pounds making that record. And I've been comfortably living around 185 to 190, 192 for probably the last year, maybe two years. That is like normal. So I feel as they go, okay, I'm trying to get down. Well, I honestly, I'd love to be at like 190, but just actually be like a little more ripped up.

Like have some muscle on there because I don't, I'm just so bad with going to the gym. We had a personal trainer who was like our buddy who let us use his gym and he would train us for free. So it was like no excuse. Like obviously I'm doing this. I was in there probably five days a week, six days a week. And then I just stopped. There's like the two things that really do affect it on tour, obviously calories in calories out is a thing. But I've experienced firsthand in the last three months, alcohol fucks it.

For two reasons. There's four macronutrients by the first. I mean things that contain calories on earth. And they are fat, protein, carbs, and alcohol. Yeah, just pure alcohol is what? It's like... It's like four? I think it's the same as carbs.

I'm trying to, yeah, I'm trying to remember like how many calories. Four calories to gram. This is the nerdiest fucking thing that we've built into maybe on this podcast. But yeah, uh, yeah, it's a lot. And not only that... You've got to be so careful about it. Not only that, but when you have... So I still, even I've been drinking a lot,

there's last few months. I've still been tracking my calories, but I've been getting fatter. And there is like, there's research that shows that if you drink alcohol at the same time as eating food, so let's say last night you had a pizza and you'd had some drinks.

Yeah. Your liver gets rid of the alcohol first because it's a poison. Right. While all that other shit is digesting and your liver doesn't appropriately, like, use the rest of the calories for energy, it will just store them to fat

because what it's doing is dealing with the alcohol, let's get this out of the liver as quickly as possible. Oh, these other stuff, what are we going to do? Store it. Yeah. That's like the theory. That is absolutely how I got big the second time

is because we never, like, I wasn't much of a drinker in the attack days until like the very end and that was like, I was just miserable and then I like stopped for a while. But when I got into like drinking like craft beers and things like that, dude and i would just you know drink a few craft beers and then we go to the gas station and i get

all this bullshit and just like smash it and just fall asleep in the van and dude i put on so much weight so fast it's it is scary so fast so yeah and that's another thing on tour is like if i'm trying to lose weight the alcohol intake is way fucking less way fucking less than like the glory days. I'm having a dry dry, I don't want to say dry March because I'm going on holiday, but I'm having dry from now until I go on

holiday. Right. Which I need to do it because I've been fucking caning it. Yeah, I've just been in it, dude. I mean absolutely caning it. And I put, like, I, basically I've been on my own little mini tour for four weeks of just like going around the place or whatever and I have put on

three kilos, which is, 6.6.6.6. 6.6. 6.6. 6.6 pounds in four weeks. Of just pure lard. Just working for it, dude. Working for it. Super strong, though. As a result of it, because I kept training. There's definitely some muscle in there. But you don't look fucking fat. You look fucking beefed. That's the thing. Everyone said, because it's like, it's hoodie season, everyone's like, man, you're looking jacked. It's like, actually, I'm fat. But I'm just filling shit out of it. Yeah. It looks.

great in the hoodie. Thank you. You're pulling off in the hoodie. Thanks, bud. We are running super late. We've got a top five bands and then we're done. Yeah. If you love the top five section, there is another podcast dedicated to top five.

Shameless plug. Run by your wife. That it is. It's amazing, dude. I love listening to that podcast. She's been killing it. Yeah. What's it called?

It's called my top five. You can find it as, I think all their ads are at my top pod. Yeah. But yeah, they've done some killer episodes already, and it's her and my brother host it. Oh, sick. And it's just fucking, yeah, people just choose whoever the guest is, they choose whatever five top five subject, usually not related to their thing. So like top five fucking movies or, you know, whatever. And yeah, it's great.

She's done a lot of cool people. And I've been involved in a few, just jumping in and chiming in. That's cool. it's a fucking great idea because I literally did it from episode one on this podcast just because I wanted to know people's top five bands and then I started doing top five foods as well and then I realized I don't know which came first and I don't care

and then I was like actually there's a better top five podcast I'm just going to keep the top five bands well very respectful let her do the top five very honorable so give me your top five bands number one is ACDC wow absolutely have you got a particular singer Bonn. I mean, obviously Brian is fucking, I mean, it is splitting hairs. But to me, it's just I, my favorite records are all those old Bonn records before they were like working with the big time producers. And like obviously, you know, like back in black and everything beyond is fucking phenomenal stuff. I mean, that's the third biggest selling album, I think, in history beyond the Eagles greatest hits and thriller.

Eagle's great as hits Yeah, it's crazy Eagles' greatest hits Biggest on record of all time Yeah crazy But um yeah Californication Loudest record of all time

Or is it deaf magnetic now? Uh I don't remember I just remember hearing that people Literally were getting pissed Because they were making the records The loudness battle And they were just smashing

The dynamics so much That people were like This just does be Just sound good It looks like a JPEG of a Lego brick It's actually the waveform Yeah I mean Which is how most records look nowadays

But um Yeah The ACDC, specifically Bon Era, I mean, just high voltage is the best sounding guitar tone in the history of mankind. That's what I base, the Beartooth guitar tone off of, like, they are my fucking Malcolm Young, rest in peace, favorite guitar player all time, the fucking backbone. Because I'm a rhythm guitar player. I'm not a big lead guy. But, yeah, they're number one. Fuck me.

What's your favorite? It's the season. Just give me... Probably, I mean, it changes a lot. Either LiveWire or Whole Lotta Rosie. Whole Lot of Rosie's probably number one. If you watch Whole Lot of Rosie live in Donington, 91,

I mean, that's my favorite rock show that has ever happened. Is them live at Donington 91? I think that's the best rock show that's happened in the world. We're like nine miles from there right now. Dude, that's just the fucking dream. That place is amazing. Anyway. DC, number one.

The rest don't have to be in order. Okay. Ones that would be in the top five. One that I'll put in the top five and Berlin. They, a random thing, but they were, this is why they, and I don't love all their material. But there are, there are songs that I love on every single record. And they're the first band and probably the only band that I actually like follow. their entire discography from when I found them.

And I found them right when they put out Never Take Friendship Personal, which was their second album. And I just thought they were an amazing, like, pop rock band. And the singer's got a pretty bizarre voice, and I was really into it. But they're just a band that I followed their whole career. And, yeah, amazing live band, huge fan. I'd put them in there. I mean, if we're going, like, I mean, this is a pretty,

common one, but I think the greatest singer to ever walk the earth is Freddie Mercury and Queen is equally as amazing as a band. I mean, the members, I believe, I'm almost equal amounts of hits that each specific member has written. Wow, I didn't know that. That's just fucking mind-blowing. Oh, yeah.

All of them wrote, and they all wrote their own songs, which is absolutely incredible. So I'd put Queen in there. A couple more. I mean, I'd be hard pressed not to say Slipknot. I mean, they are just, does it get better?

As a metal band, fucking Iowa. I mean, that shit's just like the most violent, fucking angry, like, I don't know, I love that record. I just think that band kills. Corey is a god. All of them are in their own right.

And, you know, I think, and to see them now, just only, they continually get better. They continually keep putting out amazing albums. And like their live show. It's just, you can't explain it unless you shit.

Yeah, I saw, I think that if, I'm assuming it's their most recent production, but it was in like November, maybe October last year, we played a festival in Sacramento and they headlined and, oh my God, man, it was just amazing. I was standing there with LED drums.

LED drums? I think there might be a new. I don't know. The drums are like. like wrapped with LED screen. Fucking crew. Not Jay's drums, the percussion. Oh, maybe.

They might have had those on that. And they like project like just videos of maggots on it and shit. Yeah, they had like the like treadmills and, I mean the best front of house. I was just standing back by front of house with Danny P. Just chilling. Roasted a little bone and just got in the zone. And man, it was the fucking best.

Fuck yeah. So good. I always. go back to, I have this, can't we touch knees again, pause, quick blow job. And back. I always want to say that self-title is my favorite. And then when I look back on it, Iowa is my favorite. The production is just a bit better.

Right. But to be fair, like that first record, that production, and that's something about the band is I think the production also makes the records. Yeah. Like, the fact that it's so frantic and it's so, like, intense and it just, it's unsettling. There is also some, like, filler tracks. Remember when it was just, like, end of the 90s when it was like, here's an album. He's got 20 songs on it. Right.

12 of them are sick. And then there's, like, I think, remember that one tattered and torn on that album? It just goes, gras. Yeah, just, like, wild shit going on. Yeah. But, yeah, I get what you're saying. Iowa, they stripped it down. And it was just, like, banger, bang.

Yeah. Just nothing but fucking... And slightly more shiny. And like, I mean, people equal shit is just forever going to be the heaviest song in existence to me. Like that track. Big.

Change the world. Heritage Anthem, you kidding me, dude. How many they don't play it now though? Yeah, like, no, they played it. Okay, they played it on the tour we did with them like 2015. They don't play it now. Because I took a video of it the first night and I was almost crying.

And it was... They don't play that and they don't play left behind. That's a little suss. A little suss. us. I mean, I was just bummed. I just, it's just a bummer.

I mean, yeah, of course. We would just want them to play all of Iowa. All right. Give me your fifth. Anyway, fifth. And I'm going to get out of your hair. Yeah. Oh my God.

This is a tough one. Fifth. Fuck. It's kind of a tie. Honestly, architects up there. I've loved that band for a long time. They are, in my opinion, one of the best live bands, period.

Their records are just, like, not at all bullshit. Like when you hear the record, I mean, it's perfect. Like, that is just how they fucking play. And of course, their whole story, everything. And, like, they're just maybe the most inspirational band from, like, the scene that I, you know, personally know. And, but, uh, this band called White Reaper. White Reaper is fucking incredible.

There's a band from Kentucky that's very, like, rock and roll. They're, they're getting pretty big now. They've done, like, Jimmy Kimmel and some late night stuff. They're coming on tour. over here opening for Pearl Jam. This is a plug. Dude, pretty much, man. I literally plug this band any chance I can. We cover

I did a cover for when we were doing acoustic radio songs where I just played one of their songs and we'd plug them then. But like, incredible fucking rock band. The first record I got into is called the world's best American band and it's sick.

It's just like little things in the production. It sounds like it was recording the 70s. Drums are just mono right down the middle. Like, it just sounds killer. And then they just put out a newer record. Oh, I forget what it's called. But anyway, great fucking album, amazing band.

And fucking, I'm going to put a seventh one in there. Plug in the Dirty Nill as well. Canadian band, three-piece. Best, one of the best live rock shows, best live rock singers I've ever seen. Top seven. So top seven. I could go on for days. but these are like essential bands in my playlist.

That's sick. I appreciate even though you put in some smaller ones in there that normal listeners would not have checked out. They need to hear them. Unless you got anything else to say, I guess we're done. I think we covered some good ground, man. It always works out as like literally about an hour 20 perfectly.

Yeah. I've never really struggled to feel that. Yeah. Thanks for coming on me. Thanks for having me, man. Always good to fucking catch up. That's fuck. Yes.

Bye.