The Downbeat - Chris Turner (Oceans Ate Alaska)

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

My guest this week is Chris Turner - one of the best metal drummers in the world, both with Oceans Ate Alaska and with his solo stuff. We met for the first time to talk drums, practice, regretable early touring practices, and more. Check out Oceans Ate Alaska's new single and his lesson packs, merch, and solo stuff on spotify. He's an absolute freak.

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My guest on the podcast this week is Chris Turner. Unbelievable freak boy, man, drummer. I reckon he's probably, at least feet-wise, the best metal drummer on earth. I do not want you to comment. No, this person's best metal drummer on earth. Of cinema, his feet are absolutely insane. Often he's called out for being not natty.

or fake. I'm telling you, it's real. It's just unbelievable. We do a deep dive into why he's so good. Never met before this podcast. We had a great chat, a lot of fun, not burping from him, which I hope has made the edit. You can check out his stuff he plays drums for band called Oceans A, Alaska. They have a new single out at the end of the month. He does his own solo stuff, which is awesome. You can search that, Chris Turner on Spotify. go to his Instagram, Chris OAA, and you can find out his merch, all that stuff. Great dude, happy he came to the podcast. It is Chris Turner on the Downbeat Podcast.

Mr Chris Turner. What's going on, dude? Hello. Nice to finally meet you, man. I feel this is pretty overdue. It's incredibly overdue. Get the vape off there. Initially, you didn't want to do it?

Yeah, honestly. Why? Cheers, by the way. Damn, dude. We are in. Straight in. You just tell me, I'm a... It's not that I didn't want to do it.

It's that there was some things going on and not everything aligned and it just wasn't kind of right at the time. Is the PG answer? The real answer is... We want the real answers. Okay. You mean the real answer.

Fair play, fair play. Honestly, at the time, I was releasing the song solo album. This is being dead on it. Yeah. I was releasing the solo album and I'd never put myself out like that. And I was very nervous about it. I was very anxious. Everything before was with oceans. It was like, you know, if something goes wrong, it's all the boys together. It's the band account. It didn't, it didn't scare me. But going solo, it's like, okay, this is my account. This is my name. I found it really scary. And I saw your reaction video to 40-year-old. And I was like,

this dude hates me. Oh, what? I was like, I was really nice. I was like, and I also hit you up before anyway saying, can I come on your podcast because I want to promote my solo stuff? And you didn't reply to me. I didn't see that. There's no fucking way. Well, I was like, he didn't reply to me. And then he's hitting up, is hitting up this big reaction video. I'm like, the dude doesn't like me. So then, and I was a nervous wreck at the time as well. So when you then said, I want you on the podcast, I was like, I don't think you do. I think your audience. want me on the podcast, but I don't think you want me on the podcast. I didn't give a fuck about them?

Did you watch the same video I think I made? I thought I was, I did the whole video where I was like, the whole video came about where that video came out and prior to that video, I will fully admit, and I say it on the video, I thought, this guy's editing his drums. That video came out, I watched it before my reaction. I like pre-watched it, or maybe it was one before, no, it was 40-year-old. I watched it and I went, I think that's fucking real.

And then I phoned Nolly. Oh yeah. And I was like, Chris Turner, what are you saying? And he was like, I think it's real.

And I was like, I think it's real too. Haven't you seen me play live before though? Didn't we do UK drum show together? I know I met you at the UK drum show. Yeah, I don't think we, I think you played like a real person stage.

I played the main stage. Yeah. I played a little stage. It's still a real person stage, but I played a little stage. I think, I don't get, to watch you.

Oh. I think that partially confused me because I was like, he's seen me play at the drum show. Like he saw, he saw me do it. He saw no triggers. He saw everything the way I played.

In the video, I literally say, this is fucking real. All right, I'm going back. I'm going back through my DMs right now. If I find one from you,

now, you're going to have unsent this in prep. Oh, wait, you can't unsend for me. No, stupid. 28th of October, 2019. Go on. Yo, dude.

How are you been? Is that me? That is you. Admittedly ghosted. Right, there you go. That's not I hit you up saying, can I come on your podcast? You didn't even let me ask the question.

And then I've replied to one of your stories. The floorboard drumming. And I said triggers, joke, obviously. No, this is when things started to change, you know. All right. I missed that message. There's no way I wouldn't reply.

Okay. This is, all right, let me summarize. I hit you up. I thought you didn't want anything to do with me. I thought you'd call God me. Yeah, cheers, man. All right. And then.

I do be cool, so. And you look, you are cool, man. You got the hair. So have you. We had a chat about that before. He's going to wear a hat.

And I was like, absolutely not. Hats are for bald people. No offense to ball people. But if you got it, rock it. Fair play. Fair play. But yeah, no, I thought you called guy with me. I thought you didn't want to know me. And then I saw you video and I was like, but he saw me at the drum show. Why is he like doing this to me? And I felt attacked and I didn't like. And then you asked me, but I saw a lot of comments saying we want Chris on the show. And I was like, he doesn't want to talk to me. And I was like, I don't think I want to put myself in a conversation with someone that doesn't actually want to talk to me. And that is honest to God, why I didn't commit. I thought you didn't want to talk to me. But then when I were interesting. But when I got on the

phone to you and you was like, dude, I want to talk to you so bad. I want to ask you about this, that the other. I was like, oh, well then I'll come to show and then I came on the show. Isn't it fucking weird? Because we've just miscommunication. Do you know, my, I've obviously got, when I did the reaction videos in the pandemic, I've got like a particular style of it. But what I wanted to do from that video was, because I already watched it before the reaction. Sure. I watched it and decided, like, this is fucking real. There is too many people out there telling, incredibly good drummers that they're fake. And at the same time, there's far too many

drummers who aren't good faking it. So I was like, I'm going to do this reaction video. I'm going to dissect it. I'm going to teach people how to decipher how this is real and try and do it in a funny way. Apparently it came off as a fucking wank. I mean, I don't know if I was the only one that read it that way because I put out a thing

because it's water under the bridge now to me sort of thing. But I put out a thing in my Instagram saying, going on the downbeat podcast, what do you want us to talk about? And like, I don't know how percentage I didn't do maths, but like at least half of them was, ask Craig about his reaction to your 40-year-old video. I was like, damn.

So maybe I wasn't the only one who thought that, or maybe I was just hypersensitive because it's me. Maybe people didn't get it. Because I like, I need to re-watch it, but I know for a fact. I feel like I want to re-watch it now to check or not. I know for a fact, like the take home was, I was mind-blown that it was fucking real.

Yeah, no. I was slowing shit down and I was like, this motherfucker is real. I think that's, yeah, definitely got there. In a way,

it's the strangest, incredibly big compliment. Yeah, okay, I understand that. Honestly, I couldn't fucking believe it. No,

and I actually feel bad for saying no, because if we just had better communication, I feel like this is some sort of like couples... No, but we wouldn't have had

this that 10 minutes of gold. I honestly, think if we had better communication, then it would have never, I would have never said no. I should have fucking replied. I'm really sorry. I feel really bad.

I feel way worse. I feel way worse, mate. Okay. So if you don't know, if you're just a downbeat listener and you just listen to all the episodes, regardless, thank you. You're my favorite people.

But Chris Turner, solo artist these days, also Oceans at Alaska. But, and this is me, sincerely saying, this, one of the greatest metal drummers

on planet Earth. Thank you. And I would go as far as to say, the metal drummer with the best feat on Earth. To the point that I didn't fucking believe it, as we've just discussed, I dissected it. This motherfucker's

real. And people still calling you fake. We'll nip this in the bud. Let's get this out of the way. Do you edit your videos? No. He does. There is not that many people anymore that say it. The thing that shocked me, right, was there was... So for me, I did the opposite.

I was touring for like 10 years, and then I joined the internet. I know a lot of people did YouTube videos, and then they... whatever, then they started touring, but I did the reverse of that. And I think that a lot of people don't know what I'd done prior to these internet videos sort of thing. because to me I was like I've earned my stripes I've played these songs night after night after night whether I'm sick whether I'm jet lagged whatever all around the world so in my head I'm like I've got credibility

I'm sponsored by DW I'm sponsored by these companies like it's chilling and then I put a video online and I was like all of a sudden had no credibility because I wasn't really online before that and that kind of blew my mind so what do you mean know what happened like no credibility with the video like when I first put it out there was a lot of people saying there's no way this is real but I was like, I didn't say anything, but I was one of those people that thought it. And it's literally just because it's fucking unbelievable, mate. No, it's, I mean, it's been a long time for me to get to that point, you know what I mean,

where I can do these one takers and whatever, but I guess no one saw that process, do you know what I mean, online anyway. But I thought I'd really aren't my stripes. I thought I'd really prove my worth from all this tour in. And then I get on the internet and all of a sudden, like, I have to completely re-prove my worth. And that really shocked me as well. because I was like, yeah, I'm a real dude, I've done it for real, and then I'm nothing on the internet.

So it's so backwards. Now you're not. No, I'm not because I feel like I've made all the steps to say, like, no, look, like, I do this shit. I did the live streams. I do all the stuff where it's like, you can't argue this. Yeah, I saw someone trying to do that, like, I don't want to talk too much on the negative shit,

but I did see someone like dissecting a Twitch stream where you were like, this is fake. And I was like, my brother in Christ, You don't know how of Twitch works. Like, that's real. Yeah. But no, I think I've got internet credibility now. Oh, absolutely.

Now I've got both, which is nice. The, like, the thing is, a lot of drummers who are like really good, but not like alien freak man good. They get, they get heat online for being, for, if they edit or if they edit or if they don't edit and all that stuff and it's because what they're doing isn't that insane so they get a lot of people just who are bitter because they're at a similar level to that person but then when you get to that fucking freak player status not only do you get all those people but you get actual other musicians going this isn't real whereas they don't care about them the middle range of people which is insane the little if you're curious

the little journey that got me to hear was, it goes back to when we did Hikairi, which was Ocean's second record. I said to Nick, who's our mixes all the stuff. I was like, I don't want to use drum samples. We used drum samples on the first record.

We did that with someone else because we just had no budget. We self-funded it. You know the story. And it's metalcore, like everyone does. But I really didn't like it. I didn't like how it sounded. I didn't like how I was represented as a drummer.

But then we had the label, we had the label budget. So I said to Nick, I was like, I really want to do this one without samples. And he was like, like it was a big thing for both of us. It was a big thing for him as well. Because he was like, I've got a reputation. You know, like this record has to sound good. And I was like, yeah, I want it to sound good. This is like my everything.

And it was like the biggest thing. We were like, I remember sitting in the room. Like, we were like both like this. Why should we do it? And it was like this huge pre-tracking. Yeah, dude, it was like this huge hurdle, like brick wall for us. But we did the record without samples. And as soon as we did it, we were like,

there was nothing to worry about. This was not an issue sort of thing. So that was a big, like, oh, we did. We did a big step. Then I was sitting next to him whilst he was editing it whilst he was snapping. It's a grid. And I was like, out of interest. Like, I see you move in some, like, pretty small cuts.

and every now and then he was saying like, look at this shit, Chris, like, how funny is this? And I was saying, like, out of interest, can you hear that? Like, how far away is that? What can a human hear? And he's, I can't remember what he said. I think he said, like, eight milliseconds a human can hear. And a lot of the cuts that he was making was one to two milliseconds. And, you know, we were having a good old laugh about it.

But then I was kind of sitting there thinking, like, if a human can't hear that small, like, discrepancy. What difference does it make editing now? And then it led me to think, like, is it better edited or is it better not edited? Like, does it have a push-pull that's kind of better with those few milliseconds are in there? So then I started a whole other journey, this journey of like recording the same section, like, multiple times and like snapping one to grid, not snapping another to grid, recording one with a click and guitars, recording one with just a click and no guitars. Side note, interestingly, which you prefer out of those two? Well, I did so many experiments.

It depends on the section for me now. I notice that if I have click and guitar, I tend to be consistent, but consistent to the part. So if it's like a breakdown, like a sludgy breakdown or something, I'll always be a bit slow, but it will be consistent. It will be consistently like 7, 8, 9, 10 milliseconds

after the grid line. It's like I want to slow it. You know what it's interesting? I'm the complete opposite. Oh, are you? So if I play with the guitar tracks, I rush every time. Again, consistent rush that Will Putney said before, it's just like, I just take this full section,

and I just go, boom, and you just moves the whole thing back, and it's like perfectly locked in. But, yeah. If I go without guitar, you just lock in, don't you? Like, I'm now live, I don't have anything except me. It's not recording, I don't. Definitely live, I just have click.

I'm so sorry about that. Can I get a fucking zoom. on that please Simon. Simon's first day everyone by the way Give us a thumbs up Simon He doesn't have a camera yet subscribe to the Patreon So we can afford to give him a camera Just just his hand

Look he's got a little microphone and everything He's don't break the glass He's listening to his faves He's got water the ACs on He's all right, he's all right Continue I'm sorry I derailed you chilling. If I do a section where it's like a chorus, like maybe like an upbeat chorus,

and I have clicking guitars, I tend to do everything a bit early. I guess like I want to, I get excited and I kind of want to push it. Yeah. So for me now it depends what I want. So if I want more feel, I'll throw guitars in that section. And then if I want to be locked in, if it's like a real chuggy section or something that's real, like I want it to be metrically just like sounding money. I drop it just to the. click and so I kind of jump in and out now I recently did a live stream at drumio um and they were really surprised they were like Chris you sent corrupted files you've sent the wrong files because there's like a bit of track and click and then the track drops out for like four minutes and then there's

like a bit of track and then there's a bit of this and like your files are corrupt I was like guys that's what I want you trust me that's that's right come on come on um how was that how was that it was cool um you know it was the one the one thing I think that's the least. I don't know what to say. It wasn't great then. I just went and played some drums. I mean,

it will be out by this point, I think, or just about to come out. It should be coming out soon. Their schedule's like mad jactor. It's going to fucking pop off. It's like mad jacta. But the only thing I found hard about that

was on the live stream that we did, um, I'd play a song and then we'd talk for, for like, I don't know, 20 minutes or however long we're doing. Warm down. Warm down. And then they're like, right, play another song. And I thought that was challenging for me because I'd like, I found it, I found it hard

to kind of get back in the zone. Do you know what I mean? You don't ever do that at a gig or even a clinic. I actually just heard some mixes yesterday actually from Dremio. I can show you if you want to. But you can tell the first like 30 seconds of each song is a bit all over the shop. And then it's like, and then I'm looking. You're all over the shop.

It's like normal people. It's a bit all over the shelf. No. It is. But also, like, to me, that was it, well, it was a live stream. It was a live show. Like, you know that a live show is never going to be the standard of a video where you've been like, right, I'm going to rehearse this song for a week. I'm going to then record it over and over and over again and pick the best one ever.

So, like, it's not going to be to that standard anyway. But I found that hard. I found the warming up and down hard. And then, and then after each song, uh, they'd be like talking to me and I'd be like, yeah so basically yeah because you're like running on the kit yeah it's pretty physical that my students ask me this a lot

they're like you know I'm like tensing up a bit or like I'm getting out of breath so I think my technique's bad and I'm like I mean you don't want to be like tense into the point of you're going to like burst a blood vessel but ultimately like if you're just working for it that's fine yeah you know like it's physical what you're doing is physical you're going to raise your heart rates

I mean when you do something like I really don't buy into the dogmatic teaching of some people. They're like, oh, you must be so relaxed all the time. You must hold the stick like this. You must do this. You must do like.

Everyone has different muscle lengths, leg lengths, arm lengths, like lower torso length. Like when there's like one set way you should sit or one set where you should do anything, I'm like, you are just trying to get money by creating this one system and then selling it to everyone, like a cookie cutter system. One thing that I've noticed is some people like that because I've had students

where they're like just tell me exactly what to do and I'm like, okay, well, like I'll tell you concepts and things to practice and ways to discover what'll work for you and some people respond well to that but some people respond really bad to that. Some people like to be told like this is exactly the way to do it but of course like you said there is no the way. There is no one way.

Yeah, because like for example, you sit pretty high. that's it pretty high and then someone like ali richerton from believing with in since really low and that is obviously different body types what works for you both freak drummers but there's some some people out there telling you everyone must sit at x height and i'm like get the get the raw out and the yeah like admittedly there's definitely you shouldn't sit on the floor You shouldn't say like one of those old like a hair metal band I used to have like that and you shouldn't be standing up but just let people have a go and see what works.

It also just makes it less fun. When you're like, oh no, this isn't perfect. It's like just you're sucking the fun out of it. Like at the end of the day, like if you set a target to achieve, like if you want to play this or if you want to achieve this, whatever that may be, if you get there, then like dope, you've got a technique. that works for you. Who's to say that's wrong? You know what I mean? If you're doing it well,

then fucking slow what? Exactly. Like if you brought out traditional grit now, like if it didn't exist and someone brought it on out, everyone would be like, that's absolutely ridiculous. And then you'd see someone's touch with jazz and be like, oh, actually, actually it's quite good. I'd said one mean thing in the 40 year old video that I'll just remember. Still thinking about it. Yeah, but that you just brought it up. We cheers. Yeah, I know, you're empty. Simon? Can I get two coronas, please? Are you empty? Hopefully. I'm not, but I'll just fucking smash this.

I said one mean thing. And it wasn't even mean. It was, this man looks like he's falling off the drum kit at all times. Oh yeah, dude. I look weird when I play. But that is what, and I think I follow it up with, like, that is what this level of precision is doing to his, his human, the, the human body that he's decided to use as a vessel.

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Exclusively at drinkag1.com for slash the downbeat. That's drinkag1.com forward slash the downbeat. Check it out. I get like, um, do you want to? Oh, yeah. Oh shit. Don't leak how nice my kitchen is. It's right at the end by the window.

It's in wing B by the window. I forgot the fuck. We're talking about, like me saying you look like you're falling off a drum kit, but that's... Oh, yeah, I'll look awful. It's like I'm not saying you look awful, but you're literally on the pedals like you are trying to stop yourself from falling over.

But the noise that's coming out is like... Thank you so much. Thanks, Simon. Cheers, man. Yeah, I think the thing that normally gets people is the face. Actually, no, I think it's two things that get people. One is the face,

the like, the little stare thing that I do. You're like, oh shit, a certain person. I don't know. But first, I was like, I don't know what he's talking about. You did it, and I went, I know exactly what he's talking about. Yep, yep. Concentration-based. Yeah, that's all it is. I'm just, like, gone.

These people never been to the gym before. Like, if you're at, Or CPU is at 99%. Like, you've got no CPU left for face. You can't be looking nice. I put, I'd groan. I look like I've done two pingers. What I'm playing the thumbs.

I'm like, honestly, that is, that's all the faces. People say, oh, you look a bit tense. Like, oh, you need to loosen up. I'm like, I'm not, in my head, I'm free as a bird, but I'm in my head. If I played like you and someone told me to loosen up, I would, like, you're so good at just not,

like, it just reflects off you. I would be like, I beg. your fucking pardon. Look at what I'm doing. I mean, I see what they're saying. They're like, I look weird, so they're going to get comments. Who gives a fuck? The sound is unbelievable. And then the other thing is my back, my posture, because there's been rumors where there was a rumor that went around for a while saying that I had some mad back surgery. I saw that. I saw a comment. That's why I like play the way I play. That rumor is big. Yeah, no, there's like a proper rumor. No, no, no injuries. I mean, I've had it.

I've had some injuries, but none on my back. What injuries? From drumming or from other shit? No, I've never had a drumming injury. No, if you're playing right, it's not going to happen. Yeah, I think you got to be doing Summit pretty substantially, like, fucky to get a drum injury. But I think the worst one I had was I snapped my tendon in this finger.

Climing. Yeah, climbing. He's a climbsman thing. Rock climber. Yeah, that was, that set me back. Fuck me. What hand? It was this right here.

Left hand. It sounded like a good dry branch just snapping. And it was horrible. Talked me through it. Take me back. I was on an undercut like this. It was quite a small undercut. I had a high left foot.

I had to move out. Any of this means. Okay. Picture this is a wall. Yep. Right. Hands here. What the foot here.

And then a big. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. I probably looked ridiculous. Have you got a like spring off with your fingers? Yeah.

It was pretty small. It was like a little ledge this big. And as I moved out, it just went, like, the loudest party. It was more like a branch snapping. And I like, obviously, because it snapped so there's no pulley to like pull the finger. And I like got off the fell down and I like did this. But this finger didn't move. Oh, no.

Because nothing was pulling it. And I was like, I fucked up big time. How long ago was that? About two and a half years ago. I still get a little bit of trouble from it. I played a drum show in, oh, Spain. I played a drum show in Spain,

the start of last year, and it was giving me a lot of trouble that day. And in between every song, I was like stretching like this. And, uh, what it just locks up? No, it just like, it just hurts, dude. It's just like,

like, you can do this to any finger and it doesn't hurt. You do it to that one and it's like, what was, what was the healing like, how did they, obviously surgery? There was no surgery. So,

Usually my alien exoskeleton simply grew it back Morph back no I guess if it like snaps and curls back it doesn't reattach because it's miles away and then you have to have surgery yeah they said they couldn't tell if there was like maybe a couple little fibres holding it like it was like 90 something percent cut or if it had just sort of hadn't curled back or what but I was like it's close enough that it will go back it's mad isn't it and obviously if you try without but it's better to do it without surgery than with, of course. And it did come back, obviously.

So I didn't have surgery. I got away. It was horrible. I was told by the NHS to do ice and rest. And when I did that, it just got worse and worse and worse. And then I went to a private physio and they said, don't ice it and don't rest it. Exercise.

Through that shit. And it got better and better and better. More blood you can get to there, the better. Like, it's fucking crazy. Yeah. I have one finger injury. It's way less like cool. I mean when I tell you mine you'll be like yeah mine's pretty fucking cool

finger on your assol or so that would be fucking that'd be pretty hard to do it's way too loose for that to get any kind of injury um I I dropped a nando's salt shaker yeah that's not cool that's really not cool for anyone from America doesn't know mandos is the supreme chicken place in the UK supreme yeah come on where else you go in this chain in the UK for chicken. Don't even try. I'm on my story. You can't give me that after you gave me shit about a premiere in earlier today. No, I wasn't giving you shit about a premiere in. Let's let's get that out the way and then we get to my finger story. Chris was suit like so I really wanted Chris on the podcast to the point and I was like, let's just, I'll use some Patreon money. We'll get

your flight. Get your hotel. He's like, I don't need a hotel. I can stay at yours. I'm not trying to rinse you or whatever. Yeah. He got to this morning and I was like, I'd be so pissed off if I went to do a podcast and someone. I mean, I'm a fucking divot, admittedly. I'll be like, well, not, in fact, no, I'm actually hamming it up. I just wanted, if I was doing something like this, what I'd like to think at this level, I'd be like, it'd be nice if they gave me a hotel,

but I was like, you know what, I'm going to get Chris a hotel. Then, it's respectable, but he goes from wanting to sleep on. I'm like, I'm chilling, like, I don't care. He goes, no, no, he goes from wanting to sleep on this, this couch right here, to then when I say, I'll just get you a hotel and he was like, well, well, what is it? Like, I'm only doing Premier, Premier in and above. And I'm like, what?

You don't even see my, my couch might be covering with, like, AIDS needles. And, like, you're like, I will take AIDS needle couch or Premier in and nothing in between. So I got you a nice one. You haven't got there yet. It's dope, dude. I mean, that's what I'm saying. They're good.

I actually, when I taught, I carry a UV pen in my suitcase and I, like, see how much spaff is on my bed before I see. sleeping it because I don't want to be sleeping. How much bath is normally there? You know, I've found in the Premier Inns anyway, you know they have the bed and then they have the little sofa by the window. The cuck's so-nine.

Nine times out of ten it's on the sofa. Really? That's the cuck wanking away while two people fuck. Yeah, I guess. I just, I don't sleep on that. That's all I'm saying. That's exactly that. Anyway, my finger, anyway, we've got in a nice hotel, it's all right.

My, um, finger thing, I dropped this Nando's salt shaker. They're not even heavy, are though? It's just a salt shaker. I just dropped it like, ADHD like and then I picked I was in a bad moon I picked it up really fast and didn't realize that it had smashed and Oh it cut yeah it it's slit my finger and I said well look because it wouldn't stop bleeding I was I was I went to a hospital and they stitched it what finger was it was it was this one

Yeah and they stitched it and they stitched it like this Oh brilliant and then it's like the work is straightening it again I it's never been the same since it doesn't know luckily doesn't affect me drumming but But if it's cold outside and I'm trying to do something like this, it starts like being fucking weird. Did you work your antagonist, like the opposite muscle? That was the main thing. My brother, I didn't do anything.

So try working your antagonist. So instead of like this way with it, like so pulling down on things and like pretty much every motion is that really, isn't it? Try working out pushing that way. So like, I've seen those little, you get those bands and stuff. Yeah, they're kind of annoying, honestly. If it's like just one thing, you can just use your other hand and do that.

But like I ended up doing this all the time with my bad finger on like different angles and it worked wonders. Do you think, thank you. I just wanted to get this question out before it leaves my fucking ether. Do you think rock climbing helps or hinders your drumming or neither? Or fitness in general, you go to the gym? You look like you go to the gym. Oh, thanks.

You look like you go to the gym. Thanks, man. I do. I think it helps, honestly. They're both physical, the better shape you're in, you know. Everyone knows that exercise helps your mental state as well. And like, for me, drumming is like honestly probably, I can't put a percent on it without doing a study.

Let's go like 70 percent brain power, like 70 percent. I'd have to do a study. I'd have to do a study. I love studies, dude. I'm going to do some stupid studies coming up. So I got some YouTube videos, which I got planned. And what are you going to do studies? What are you studying?

Well, my next one, I want to do an accuracy test. I want to like put me playing the same song three times and get an average for how far away from the grid I'm on every hit in milliseconds with an easy song, medium sung, hard song. And I want to get an overall average and see if I play more. I don't know. It's a YouTube video idea I've got. This is cool. And then maybe I could get other, you could do it. I could get other drummers in and like, my accuracy is fucking terrible.

No, but don't you think that's like would be really great? Yeah. Yeah. Do you not get, I get, um, what do they call it? It's called white coats in. in doctor's surgery. Oh, you get spooked. Yeah, the minute I see that something's recording

musically, these, I'm fucking fine. But like, the minute someone says, okay, we're recording, and then I play like shit. Oh, no way. I'm fucking every time. Do you fuck, so... These are insane, bro. This is burpee beard.

That is the most insane burp I've ever heard in my life. And I want to drink a Sahi. Oh, sorry. They've got it at the Premier. They're fucking better. You actually, you get a free one drink. If you get to the bar in time. Because of my gold status.

Oh, you get a free status at the bar. You have a gold status there, but you live here and it's just there. Oh, I've got to expedia gold status. Come on. Oh, okay. I was going to say, why don't you just stay? Sometimes you get a free drink. It says they're not free drink at the bar.

That's sick. Yeah. You could have an asahi and you wouldn't burp. I'm sorry. Corona probably think they sponsor the pod right now. It just happens to be the beer that I bought for the last two podcasts. Well, I don't even give a shit about beer. well corona what you're playing at yeah give me hook your boy up someone fucking sponsor me

m's that he hooked me up give me some money aside he's fucking awesome though dude and it if you just told me i'd got picked some up i don't know stress but you didn't tell me what you wanted to eat either for a man who had the most ideas out of anyone that's ever done the podcast what do you mean everyone just goes when do i turn up and you're like you asked me i'm i'm planning uh this uh you You said to me, you said, think of some topics, think of some truth, some lies, think of some of this, think of some of that. So I said, okay, you said, send it to me an email. And I didn't do that. So I thought I was doing a bad job. I was like, I bet every other person's like sent the email.

No, because you were like, I've got some ideas for topics. And I was like, cool, send them. Oh, okay. Everyone else is like, okay, I'll just turn up. But then this guy was fucking on it. It was very easy. And you sent me your notes and they were pretty much all my notes plus some little things like I, there's no way that I would know. What were the little things that you wouldn't know? Well, we're going to get into them. Oh. Do you want me to pull one? Oh, no. Can you just like say on the things that didn't align with your already schedule then?

Would you like to know? This is one of them right now. Go on. You wrote as a note, debunking that bleed was easy. Yeah, dude. Yeah, because I just put out this video where I played the world's first double pedal. Yeah. And my boy was like, you have to play bleed.

And I was like, why? And he was like, because you just have, you get the world's first double pedal. You have to play bleed on it. that's like the thing. And I was like, I don't get it. Why? It's like one pattern. It's, so hang on it.

Are you saying bleed is easy? No, because if I say that on your fucking podcast, I'm gonna get shit for the rest of my life. But you mean it. I'm gonna, all I'm gonna say is, there's like, I can't fucking play bleed.

So this is, you're going to insult me. So, no, right. Stop insulting me. No, I'm not trying to insult anyone, dude.

And at the end of the day, I'm a massive, like, you know, supporter of music doesn't have to be difficult to be good. You know, that simple shit can be like the best shit, you know what I mean?

But, no, all I'm saying is, you know, I grew up on like a lot of Osternero stuff. I got, like in my early lessons when I was younger, it was like,

oh, put this pattern in your feet and then let's practice these subivisions in your hands, then with this sticking and then try and solo over this. And I, you know, even like through like secondary school and stuff, I'd be putting,

you know, we'd be thinking of random foot astonitos. Yeah. In like sometimes different time, signatures to what my hands were doing and and I'd be getting comfortable at soloing over it. I almost got to the point where it was like I can kind of put a pattern in my feet and forget about it if you know what I mean? And then only think about my hands sort of thing. So when I see bleed like I literally see a group of three and a single hit, it's one two three one,

which is an incredible like compared to some of these weird little subdivisions. Yeah, well compared to some of the subdivisions, like it's not subdivisions, some of the patterns I was doing, you know, even growing up as a kid and stuff. That is like a more simple, and then just loop. Forget about it. But it's so fast. 210? Oh, come on. It's 210 for the kids. It's 105 for the adults. What? Are you a half time counter?

I'm just not a 300 BPM or I'm 150 BPM. Really? Yeah. We joke. We say it's for the kids. When people are like, oh, yeah, I play 500 BPM, I'm like, I'm going to raise you. I'm going to raise you on this though. I'm a ray. All in. right do you write music yeah so you're writing 30 fucking second notes all these fucking and then so when you're going do you have to put a 64th note in there as well well

well it would it'd only be a 30 second note right yeah but if you were then playing really fast at one i don't think you can really hit a 64th no but if you're doing it in like a if you're doing it at 105 then what would be a third i guess actually right but still i don't want to do Tempos between like 100 and 200 is pretty much covers everything. Yeah, but right. You're writing 30 second notes. You've got to do an extra line. It takes fucking ages.

To me, if something in a song sounds like fast, like a grouping that sounds fast, like normally that would be a 30 second note. And if you like work around from that, you end up pretty much always between 100 and 200. I always, when I was writing music, I would write at like 200 plus only because I didn't want to write the fucking extra bar on the 30s second note.

So it was much easier for me to write. write in groups of 16th note and 8 note patterns because I learn to cite read from 16th notes and 8th notes and the minute I had to start adding that hence me not knowing the fucking 64 note shit the minute I had to start adding in 32nd notes I was like what the fuck I can't count now I don't really know so it's much easier for me to count one e and uh two we and uh three and uh than whatever the 32nd note version should yeah for me I guess like when I see people like I have people say it in lessons to me they're like oh yeah I've been practicing with the click on at 500 and I'm like dude put it just put it on it

okay now that's mental at 500 so you have so your boundary is 300 or above you would say is just just half it because we I guess we just have a different boundary of what's just like just use a more normal sounding number I mean I think probably even 280 I would probably too like a 280 blast beat song like if you were writing that at one 40 and it was a blast beat, the 30 second notes would use so much ink. Do you know what I mean if you were writing it? So, okay, so what I've learned then is in terms of like economy penware. Penware.

Yeah. Yeah. Just like keeping ink usage and costs. Which I don't use anymore. But when I was a kid, like because I went to music school and we would do it on like, like on the stave with a pen. Sure. And I just always did it like that.

Fair play. That would be more. I didn't want to, yeah, so I was lazy. I'm a lazy person. I'm a fucking lazy person. I saw someone,

I saw on, I go on Reddit. I only go on two things on Reddit. I only go on metalcore and I go on. Oh yeah. Can't say it. On our metal core and I go on our drums. Okay.

No. I use a different site for that. And then, so I saw someone the other day, there was a thread and it was like, it was on metal core, which bands, no music theory.

And then there was so many people, like, yeah, it shouldn't fucking matter at all, but there were so many people like trashing people that knew music theory, just being like, it really just doesn't broaden your mind, learning a set of, like, whatever. And in my head, I'm like, I mean, it helps. But I mean, you shouldn't be fucking annoyed at people. Well, for me, like music is the one place you can be, damn, this is seriously. We've got to get less serious after this. I don't think we've been serious at all until right now.

Shit, okay. Yeah, and that's too much. Dial it back, Chris. Yeah, like, I think that the way I view theory, whether it's melodic or rhythmical, I view it as just, you know, a framework, which is going to give you a better understanding and a better idea of what you can and can't do,

what might work, what might not work. But I think people get it wrong when they view it as a set of rules instead of a framework for, like, the same with the sitting high sitting low. Yeah, yeah. If you just say like, okay, theoretically this should work with this, but I have a cool idea, let's try this or try that. Like at the end of day, music should be open and it should be free. So whether you have an understanding of theory or not, you should still

hold that value of being free within music. But it definitely shouldn't hinder you, if anything, it should help as long as you can remain free. I always just thought of it as like it's a way easier way to communicate what you mean. It is. It's a language. Like, because we talked about fucking 16 notes and 8th notes there and we had a conversation in it. But if we didn't know that,

we'd be like, yeah, but isn't it? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. There's a question that I want to ask you, but it's already, I think we should get someone who's called in to ask it. Simon, day one.

Don't fuck it up. Call it. Give me one of the, one of the ones about practicing. All right, genuine drumming question for Mr. Turner. I've noticed as it pertains to your kick technique, you're pretty much employing a stomping motion. Even when playing faster stuff, 16 triplets and above,

you're pretty much just beating the absolute fucking piss out of the drums, you know, stomping. The whole leg's moving up and down. So the power is consistent, you know, no matter how fast or how slow you're playing. The question is, how to fuck do you practice for that? You know what I mean? Is it an endurance thing?

does having just absolutely fucking jacked legs help? Like how is one able to achieve that level of power at those speeds? Before, before Chris answers. My leg's, number one, is, is that man's name Colin Farrell? What was that guy's name? He didn't tell us. That is Josh.

Josh. Just Josh. Thanks, Josh from a lovely voice. Have you got jacked legs? No, my legs sick. The weakest part of my body is like waist down. How weird, because you're fucking, and you know what's weird,

correlation, I often think about this, I've got fucking jacked quads. Like they're crazy. And my feet are so fucking slow. Can I see your quads? Not right now, but later on, I'll get them out for you. I've got, I've got big fucking quads. Okay, cool.

Biggest part of my body. Oh. But, makes my dick look small as well as well. See, this is where, like, balance comes into play. But like, I am slow. and I have huge legs. So it does make me think,

even though I'm building all this fucking power and speed, at the gym, it doesn't translate to drums for me at all. I mean, I like to think about on the endurance comment and there was like a couple of questions within that. Nice, pro. I was talking about my own legs. You're like, bro, my quads.

Bro, I'm fucking jacked. Go. Answer Josh's Irish question. I nearly said to be sure. And now I've said it. One beer gets racist. You can be racist at white people. It's fine.

Carry on. Cut that. No, keep that in. Cut that. Keep that in. Simon. Never interrupt the podcast again. Like Chris.

Continue. Oh, I fucking forgot on the whole of everything. Endurance. Oh, true. So I like to like take examples away from drumming. And I like to compare it. other things. I do it with quite a lot of stuff. I do it with actually everything with music I do this with, especially with like songwriting. I always take it out of a song form. We can talk about that

afterwards. But no, we're talking about it now. This is why I've done this. Sure. So like, sorry, very short. I was very short with you there. Yeah. Do it now. Damn. Yeah, like if I'm writing a, think about music as it's like you hit one sense, really. It's just your ears. But like, it creates all this imagery. Like, I find it really interesting when I'm with oceans and stuff. We'll play a song that we're going to do a video for and we'll like say, okay, let's play the song and everyone at the end say what you visualised. And we always say at least two or three of us will say the same thing,

like specific things and colors. You can like picture things. And I think that that's like, it's remarkable. Like fucking little sailboat or? Mate, if that's what the song sounds like. Ah, yeah, I kind of get it. The minute you said song, yeah. Yeah.

But like, I find it really, like I find music incredibly. powerful considering it's just one sense but it is also harder to I mean even then you was like what do you mean like it's kind of harder to take it away from just the one sense yeah so I really enjoy when I'm composing like getting as many other senses hit so if it's like a visual reference or like maybe I'm writing a little plot to a film in my head with this song I'm like oh it feels like this has happened and usually if I'm listening to the song and submit happens in my little story that doesn't make sense I end up not using that part next because I guess it maybe it doesn't work musically i like to have the whole thing flow i'm such an artist have you ever

been assessed mentally no dude i am going to be all kinds of fucking ticks if we did that yeah how are you functioning for next actually that's one of my next youtube ideas i forgot to tell you that i'm giving away on my youtube video ideas i want to go to a place that does brain scans and play drums and see if i've got like shit like brain shit i mean you you you're definitely fucking do. Let me tell you. How does taking the song out of the context apply to Endurance? As per the man's question. Oh, good, good. Thank you. It's fine, I'm here. I'm here. I've only had two beers, I'm good. I like to view things in different ways, you know. With endurance, like, it's all good and well saying when it comes to

drums, like, should I be practicing this or that or the other? And you think about it just drums and it becomes real like tunnel vision. But like, think about anything else, athletic. You know, like, do people who run the 100-meter sprint for like, that's their sport? Do you think they just run 100 meters as fast as they can every day? Or do you think they run the track? I don't actually know how the fuck they train. I don't know why this is my example. But I'm sure they'll do endurance. I'm sure they'll do power. I mean, I'm thinking, I'm thinking a power lifter, they don't max out until the day. Exactly. And everything else is sub-maximal. And like with, so with climbing, like, I'm not just doing this. I'm doing like training fingers on a finger board.

The other Everest again today. Yeah, I'm like, I'm training endurance one day, power another, like, and it all helps. And I think it's just a bit, it's a bit tunnel vision, a bit kind of narrow-minded to think that like there's one thing that you can do. I think you have to do all of it. What's your practice routine right now? In fact, let's give me two. What got you so far?

Because this was my question. And again, in your notes, and I wanted old Joshy boy to instigate this. What did, what was your practice? practice routine to get this fucking good. And then what do you do now? So the first thing, there's like a couple of things, like the question was about endurance, but obviously he also touched on like consistency with power and, yeah, just freak. Freak shit. Just freak it. Well, I work all of them individually and combined, you know what I mean, similar to the examples we were given. So for, like, let's pick one. Endurance, right? Endurance for me actually was something I struggled

to practice at home, if I'm honest. Endurance for me, I got from touring. Yeah. Because it would be like, okay, I'm massively hungover or I'm like super sick. I've been vomiting or, you know, you still have to play. Yeah. And when you, like, you could be like maybe a bit injured. Like you, I've had shows where like my knees have just kind of shit themselves.

And I'm like, I still got to play an hour tonight. Yeah. And it's like when you do that, your body just, you just, that's, I think that's how I got the endurance personally. Not not to butt in too much, but I, we just did two doors back to back. Headline tour. By the end of it, you're just like, I could do this twice. Whoa, even better.

Headline tour, two days off and then a support tour. Headline tour, we were doing 70 minutes. I had COVID, then a sinus infection. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And it was fucking horrible. And I got through it. Recovered, had two days off. US tour, it was like, I was on fucking steroids.

It was the easiest. It was like, I'm fucking insane. And I'm not trying to help it because I've said that to people before and they're like, okay, great. So next time my knees hurt, next time this hurts. I'll carry on. I'm like, no, I'm not trying to tell you to fucking go get injured. I'm just saying, like, your body does respond when you put it under stress sort of

things. So for me, I struggle to train endurance because you can never replicate a live show either. Have you noticed? No way. You can never ever do it. Like, I'm like, okay, I hit really hard on a play live. So on this rehearsal, I'm going to hit really hard. And I think I'm doing it.

Nope. The minute I'm on stage, I'm like, fuck my ears are loud. Like, everything's like mad louder. And I'm like, okay, I've seen like David from Weka. Like, he's got the saw and a son of. suit. And he does rehearsals and that. But nothing's going to recreate the humidity and the adrenaline.

No matter what, you can't replicate a live show. And I find it genuinely hard to train endurance for that reason. But touring was, I think, the best way for endurance personally. What about Twitch? Because I found the closest thing I can get. One Switch to it.

I mean, it was sick. I was there. Oh, so. The closest thing I can find to replicating. That's interesting. is the Twitch stream because you have the audience, so you have the fear, and whatever fear,

oh, I don't get scared. Whatever it does mentally. Yeah, whatever, like, makes you hit fucking hard. And I even notice, like, there was levels for that, too. I would have some streams that would be on the front page of Twitch and some that would just be, like, normal streams.

And on the front page ones, it was like, this is a show. I'm fucking, my hands are sweating. I'm fucking, like, it's there. My drum room is hot as fuck. I don't have a fan. It was the close, is the closest possible thing I could get.

I can't really comment because I've only ever done one. Why? Because I don't have a drum room. I don't have space. And it's such a fucking pain in the ass to settle. I remember the trouble you had. Oh, the audio trouble. Yeah, you're wondering why I only did one?

The key is to get a place, set it up, and then fucking forget it. If I had a place where I could just press go, that would be dope. But I don't have that. Stop spending so much money on cars. I'm sorry, but don't ever tell me what's spend money. Oh. The fucking burps, bro. Oh, yeah.

They're insane. It's almost like you leave your body. Like, there's the drum face is one thing. But then the burp face is up there. That's a strong thing. Really, it's more passionate than the drum face. Yeah, you're like, if you don't feel your burp, dude, what you're doing? Yeah, you were on, on the grid, mate.

I'm connected with my mind, body. All right. So for endurance, basically, Chris said for endurance, go out, get sick. continue to play the drums. Yes. How do you get your feet so good, though? This is one of my questions.

What the fuck do I have to do? Again, there's like a load of different things there. So if we want to talk about accuracy next, because that flows well in my head for this conversation. Accuracy would be, for me, the first thing I noticed was when I was doing one of my first recording sessions

when I was like, fucking like 12 or some shit. And I remember the recording engineer was like, you know, it's cool, but there's a bit of issue with syncopation. I'm like, the fuck you're talking about it? No issue with syncopation.

No issue here, brov. Yeah. Anyway, there was an issue with syncopation. And I couldn't tell because my crash symbol's so loud and washy. And my snare's so loud and ringy and the whole room is so whatever. Like, I couldn't tell that these two crashes weren't hitting together. They were slightly flaming. I couldn't tell.

So then I pretty much moved everything to the pad, which is why you've seen videos of me stamping on the floor and playing on a pad. Because now instead of this loud, washy sound, which isn't very concise, if you will, to your ears. On a pad, it's like, it's a real, defined, like, transient, like, this is the hit. And all of a sudden, and I do it to my students, I'm like, play the simplest thing you can think of. And they're like, everything's flamming. And they couldn't tell on the kit, but they can tell on the pad.

So for accuracy, I rehearse everything to death on a pad before I even get on the kit. No footpad, just stomp. Personally, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't do that. Because every footpad I've ever used in the history of the world, despite even like people who own companies come into me saying, you won't break mine or you won't move mine,

I just break them. I mean, I can believe it with you. Have you tried the new Tamil one? No. It's the only good one that I hated all of them. But even with you, I'm like,

it's like a mini drum, basically, but even like, you know, the V drum shit, they fall all over the fucking place. But I also hate the feel of them anyway, because,

obviously, because I don't use any sample replacement or triggers or anything. I need to... Just wedge that in there. There's a nice sound by them. Obviously, because I don't fucking cheat. You have to tune the drum

in a way that's going to get the sound you want. And to tune the drum, I literally tune my kick finger tight. Same. I don't even use... People don't fucking read... People assume tuned high gives you the tighter, higher sound, but it's not. You want the fucking smack.

You want the sound of the... plastic beta hitting. You want it fucking a horrible noise. You want it like one sashay above completely dead, like the sound of it when you hit it when it's not on a drum. Absolutely fucking perfect.

But like... I ordered a new kit yesterday. Oh. I can't wait to fucking play it. What kit? Tamar Star. Oh, okay. Maple. Not DW. I'm sorry.

I'm a Tamer guy. You're a DW guy. I'm DW. DW is my number two. Oh, dude. I fucking love DW. the only other drum company in, I mean, I'll tell this story because I'm like that. Sure. Just very, very shortly. I swear we'll answer this voice clip eventually. I mean, we're getting there.

We did actually, we just did accuracy. Like bite-sized chunks getting through this. Go out. Let people cough in your face, go and play the drums. Accuracy. Play on a pad. Very good. Sure.

Okay. We'll talk about power next thing. Yeah, we're getting into power. Josh is getting his money worth here. Damn, Josh. I can't even remember what I was fucking talking about classic podcast Simon what we were talking about

What was the story? New drum kit Fuck yeah Simon Simon Oh that's so good Don't don't Stop I was

I tried to get DW first that was my first endorsement I tried to get when I was at DW standard And they turned me down and they deserved to turn me down because I wasn't ready but it was like

I'm ready for endorsements I'm going to go for DW turn me down I've got a bunch of other endorsements afterwards and then I just had a chip on my shoulder I was like I'm not asking DW

I got TAMR but Tama's like Tamara and DW to me when I was a kid were just always like my fucking favourites play these drums and funnily enough the Tama Birch Walnuts

I've had two separate engineers tell me they sound like DW Maple, which is weird because it's not the same fucking wood. Interesting. I'm about to...

I like them so much. I've got another YouTube. I'm giving away all my YouTube video. Well, this is accountability for you to make them. Yeah, well, I'm fucking doing.

I'm doing. If I'm one of these people, man, if I'm like excited about something, I just do it. Give me your other YouTube video. This will hype it up because this will be on YouTube.

I'm going to save this one because this one's dope. Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you later in the podcast or after the podcast. All right. This is the next one I'm doing.

So this is the next one. will post on my channel. We should talk about that one then. It's sick. You can't do this and then not tell me what it is. Oh, man. Okay, right. Are you looking around for an escape?

Yeah, dude. Like, I think, um, I think we'll get to it because I want to say this one. Okay. Okay. We've done endurance. We've done accuracy.

Power. Okay. How are you practicing power? So power is a massively misunderstood topic. because people assume that you have to hit as hard as you can to be powerful. But that's sort of fundamentally going to give you issues. Like that is almost wrong from the start. For example, let's take a, I don't know, like a four on the floor groove, right?

Or like a breakdown that's four on the floor. And you're like hitting the shit out of it. Let's say your power's like here, for example. I didn't yawn because I was bored. You're on because I was tired. And then like the next section has somewhat of a 16. notes in and then they're down here. Like the reason the issue with this power is it's not consistent. I never, I don't like to use the term power. I like to use the category of

consistent power. Yeah. It's about having it the same always. So like if you pull up any of my stems, first thing is between right and left. We play this game regular every session. How are you practicing that? I'm, you're saying you're right and left. No, I'm getting there. Okay, sorry. I just fucking chance. You just fucking, oh, my right and left. are so fucking good. Answer the fucking guys' question. Carry on. No, like, the first thing you want to work on is between right and left,

and the best way to do it is with recording, because it's way more visual. And you can literally see a right and a left leg. And you want to get it to the point where you can play the game with your friends, like, what's right, what's left, and you don't want to know. After that, you want to work on consistent power between slow and fast. So that's the biggest time people fuck up.

And that's, I call it my speed power max. So I find the most, powerful I can play at my maximum tempo for like a few bars whatever and that is that's my like limiter that I use in my brain so let's say there's like a fast part coming up like I give it my absolute fucking all to hit my speed power max like it's a hell of a lot more effort how are you measuring it's I feel just it's like looking at the waveform after yeah like yeah so that helps obviously connect the dots a bit more but it's through feel at that point um but you yeah, like there's a fast part. I'll give my absolute all to hit as hard as I can so that

it's, I'm hitting my speed power max. But the thing that a lot of people don't consider is now when I hit the four on the floor, or the breakdown or the breakdown or whatever. This is the most insane thing ever. Carry on, but fuck me. I need a compilation of these. Please. I could hit up here, you know what I mean? Like, I could be snacking this four on the floor up here. But it's about restricting yourself then. It's about saying, no, I'm not going to hit with that much power. I'm going to keep to my speed power max and then all of a sudden uh i did it in one of my lesson packs i played like half notes up to quarter notes up to quarter trips up to eight eight trips and i went all the way up to 30 seconds and all the way back down and i just pull up the stem there and then and it's literally

like this the whole time like that it's it's obviously power is involved you have to hit hard if you're playing metal because you you have to get that sound unless you're triggering of course but if you're doing it with a microphone you have to hit hard to get the desired sound but when you have the desired sound, it's about keeping it consistent. So to train that, I recommend using a 91, a kick in mic, where it's going to be really accurate. Yep, recording yourself, getting right and left even. It's pretty fucking simple. At a slow tempo first or just what feels comfortable that you can get both? Kind of doesn't fucking matter. Just go record a song and just check. Get them even. And when you're even between right and left, then you want to start

getting even between fast and slow. And eventually it just... What if you can't play fast yet? Is that part four? That wasn't in the question. Playing fast is like... I mean, that's a question for me. Because I can't play fast. I literally can't do it, bro. I think it's like mostly brainpower.

I think it's mostly understanding how to follow and how to count and how to... It means what I can't do. I think it's like, I teach a lot of people and nine times out of ten, they can't follow what they're doing. And that's a massive issue. Like, I have hacks around that as well.

Like, I follow like the leading leg. If I'm doing a group of people, of five, whatever, I only follow the leading leg and I count three hits. So if I lead the group with my left leg, I'll count one, two, three. So then no matter how fast it is, my brain isn't going, like how the fuck do you follow that? And I just hear, but ba-ba-ba, which I can easily calculate, and that helps me stay in check. But trying to like calculate, like, say you're playing like, I don't know, some 16 trips for ages like, d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d. Not me, but carry on. People get lost in it,

and then they lose the accuracy, and then it just becomes a shambles. But you think of da-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-d-d-d. Yeah. Got it. Got it. So, So like I have little hacks and things that help me sort of keep in check. How did you get, how did you? Like that's, that's you, I'm guessing. I've got loads of little, loads of little things that I do at every step, help. It all come together. Like, I'm like, I don't ever play to a quarter note click.

I often play to 16 note click. I love a 16 note click. Mm-hmm. Because it's like less, less room for error, constantly in check. And I'm permanently analysing, like, has my kick flammed against the click? if it has was it a flam before or after if so adjust and I'm permanently adjusting what do you mean by if so adjust so you make a note in your brain and when you play that bit again yeah you mold no for the next by the time the next clickers come around I'm playing the role of the fucking idiot here but

coincidentally I'm also a fucking idiot so I'm so I'm learning so when you're saying so like you play something once you have a look you're flamming there and no that that's it that's like in the moment that is like if I adjust on the next time that happens. Yeah, so the next click that happens, I'll have hopefully, if I was early, hopefully I'll have slowed down and settled, or if I was late, I'll have type of reseder. The brain function becomes muscle memory to be like, don't slow, don't flam that bit there. There's always going to be push and pull, but it's about smoothing it as well, because if you're, if you're playing like, let's say you're playing consistently five milliseconds

late on a section, right? It doesn't, sorry, five milliseconds out of time on a section. It doesn't, it's not good if it's five milliseconds early, one hit and then five late on the next, then five early on. Yeah, that's poor. So what you want to aim for is like, cutting, poor. What a real old school way to fucking slap someone down. Carry on, though. Like, you want to, you want to smooth it over the best you can. So if you have noticed that you're early, you want to slowly get back in and you want to keep, keep it like a wave instead of like aggressive. It's like learning things like that because there's plenty of songs that I've put out with mistakes in. There's plenty of video that I'm about to put a video out with a

mistake in. What's the mistake? We want people to find it. That's such a good idea. Let's do that. Thank you. Thank you for destroying 10 minutes of content. No, but like... You don't see, though.

You think differently. None of my shit snaps a grid, but it sounds so accurate because if I am early, I slowly pull it round and I work with it like that. You know what I mean? I got to stop doing this. Here's a question. No, this was me actually interrupting.

Here's a question. When you record these, because I... When I record what? Like, let's say... Let's say... Because I just did the term on a record and they wanted that Snap to Grid.

So I recorded it section by section. Yeah, most people... If you're watching this, most people want it Snap to Grid because most drummers aren't a fucking freak. That's a client job. I've got another client job coming up this week. They want it in MIDI.

Like, I don't... They want in MIDI? Oh, easy. If that's what they want, that's what I do. No, fucking that's free money. Mugs. You've got one of the best drummers in the fucking world. I'm like,

Give a MIDI, actually. Why don't you just fucking pay a mixer? Like, Jesus. No offense to whoever it is. However, I'm interrupting before you have any. He's going to know who he is as well, because he's going to watch this. I want fucking MIDI. Shut up.

So, like, okay, when you're doing your own, sorry, when you're doing your own songs. And I guess I want the question. I guess I'll extend it to Washington, say, Alaska. But I'm mainly thinking of your own videos. Okay. Do you record the music first and the drumming? last. Every time.

So I've... Everything we do. That is how you can get away. This is a thing that I keep talking about because I used to do it the other way. I used to do it drums first, music last. You just lose all the... Because it has to be to the grid because you can... When you've got a raw drum file, you can really hear anything that's off the grid.

However, if you track all the other... It's from the reference. And you then you then track the drums. The only integer there is, does that sound good? Yes, it does. Don't have to edit. Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

I was just interested to see that you do that as well, because that saved my fucking live loads of times. I always track it last as well, because when we, so we, I also, I engineer oceans. I'll record the guitars on both. Yeah. Really? Well, I have my producer tag.

My producer tag, I'm not entirely happy with this. If you hear that, that means I've produced the track normally. Really? because I mean I when I say I don't mix anything I don't do know that but I like you're engineered like if you're recording the guitars I do the pre-pro and then I engineer a guitar and bass and I've just started engineering vocals as well you editing dires yeah I could never do that shit I used to engineer it's tedious and I was just like it's tedious I can't do this but you um what the fuck was I saying

Simon I forgot because yeah I'm fired he's back to zero he's back to zero no one fuck it um i've got a great question on the smooth pipe about this about this exactly right forgiven for interrupting yeah jesus not forgiven for lacking on beer supplements he needs one more beer while the speak pipe i will press play i'll get beers thank you oh i feel bad dude thank you what's up chris what's up crag sorry for the really shitty audio i'll make this quick um as a drummer an aspiring hearing a musician, how bad is it if I don't know how to properly mix and engineer drums?

Or in other words, my question is, do you think that in the modern age of musicians and then metal music, I guess, is it feasible to make a career as a drummer just by being a good drummer and not necessarily knowing how to engineer or mix drums? how crucial is that to success in this industry according to you. And if it is crucial, one of the best ways to learn how to do that. I know there's a lot of resources online, so I could Google it, but if you have any tips, I would love to hear about it. Fuck Google and shit, man. Also, I love the podcast. Love you both.

Thank you. I was fucking waiting for one of those. The last guy was just like, yeah, what's up? Here's my question. I was like, are you going to fucking gas me up, bro? What a guy? I thought that was pleasant. That was very present. Don't give them free advertising. I was going to make a tower, but you're fucking two-sits-in to that one. If they were paying, it could be on the pod.

Damn, dude. No free feet. I am two-sipsing. I'm slow. And that's weird, because you're talking more. I'm getting that, you know, when you talk a lot and you're drinking beer and your spit goes a bit dry. I need, like, I've got three lip things in my pocket at all times. Oh, dude.

The weather right now is chisputting. I got dry lip central. This pleasant American man's question. Have you forgotten the fucking question? No, Simon. No, I've fucking got this. He said what was like, he can't mix or engineer. Because I saw you shake your head at mix.

Yeah, no. How important is it? If important, how do I do it? Award winning podcaster. So I don't know how to fucking. I don't know how to fucking. mix drums. Drums are hard to mix, dude. I use Nick Sampson. He fucking crushes it. He takes on every challenge to give him. I say, hey, I did a recording for a video shoot today. We only

had these mics available, so I only miced up these things. And you know the drill. Strictly no samples, whether they're supporting or enhanced. You know what I need. Make it work. And he's like, he just deals with everything I give him. So respect to Nick. Thanks for taking. Thank you, Nick. thanks to taking all my shit. I don't know what the fuck he does. It's insane. And when he explains it to me, it's like it's so simple.

I've done lesson packs where I ask him, how did you mix my kick? How did you mix my snare? And he talks me through it. And I'm like, oh, yeah. With all due respect, though, that is because you are giving him very, very, very absurdly

top 1% stems. Not always, though, that's what I mean. Like, granted, like the drum, he loved the drumminger stems. He loved the drum. Their audio is always fucking insane. He was like, I just fucking did the most lightest processing and everything and it was done. But like, we've worked in some rooms where the room's super dry and the snare's super dry and I'm like, well, make it not dry.

And he's like, Chris, this is normally when you're lying a sample. And I'm like, well, figure it out. Nice. But he does. So mixing is not important with what about engineering? Mixing is just, well, put it this way. Nick's been mixing for like 20, five years. You know what I mean? Like I've been training drums for 25 years, but I haven't been

mixing for 25 years. And I'm not going to spend my next my lifetime again learning that. Do you know what I mean? Like mixing not important. For me personally, I'm not interested in. Engineering. So engineering has only recently become important to me because Nick is in America and I'm over here. And before COVID, I just did everything with him. So he engineered it. Yeah. And since COVID hit, I started working remotely. So I started to like, him up and say, tell me how to place a snare mic, where and why. Tell me what mic to use where and why. Just tell me everything.

So he started to kind of coach me just so that we can work remotely. So engineering has only recently become important to me. So the actual basis of the question was like, how important is it to get a career on its way? I mean, I'd say personally for me, it hasn't been really important at all. It's only really recently that one of those two things. has come into play. So yeah, I would say not massively important. If you want to be a drummer, like focus on your drumming. I'm going to play not even devil's advocate. I'm just going to

sidestep with it in case he meant something different with it. I would say as a working drummer right now, engineering is absolutely insanely important because as as a, as wanting to be a working drummer because you cannot afford to hire a studio and an engineer at this stage if you're not already at that stage. So learning how to record your own drums, not only for checking your practice or whatever, but you can do that on a fucking phone, but like actually working. True. Super important. But if you're just thinking about becoming like, if you want to get in a band and you want to show someone something, like you can get a fucking Yamaha, EAD and just plug that

and you have a relatively decent sounding thing to make drum videos with. I'd say if you had aspirations of session drummer, engineering is super important. If not, I would say, I would put recording yourself with anything. I think that over that,

the more understanding you have, because granted, the past two years working more closely with Nick on what I'm doing to help his results, I've learned a lot about the instrument and about how the instrument sounds. So that's been really valuable for me, and I'm grateful for that knowledge.

So sure, the more you know surrounding what you want to do, the better you'll be at what you want to do something. So yeah, and maybe I should rephrase my answer to, for me personally, then it didn't play a part until recently. But sure. But now as a working drummer, you fucking need it. Yes, true. But from the reason I said, mine started way back before.

Like I said, I wasn't doing internet shit. I was doing torture. So, but now, like, the way you get going is the internet, isn't it? Yeah. I suppose, yeah. So for me personally, it didn't play a part, but maybe for yourself. A basic level.

Just nodding terms with recording a drum set, probably quite beneficial. Enough to get yourself online then, we'll say. And honestly, I think his last part of this question was... About how great the podcast is. Where to learn it. I mean, he did that. That was just a statement.

He said, where to learn it. My brother, there's a website called YouTube. and it fucking rocks. No, dude. It rocks, bro. You go, you type anything you want to do, you find the one with the most views, that person's right. No. They're not.

Man. Like, right, if you want to be, like, have a go at something, sure, watch YouTube and you're like, okay, I've got an idea. But if you want to be like, if you want to hone in on your craft and like, nail it, you can't just watch YouTube.

Yeah, but just to get started with engineering, how do I place a snare mark? He doesn't have a Nick. He doesn't know Nick. Otherwise, you would have asked Nick this question. How do I place the snare mic? He can't stick. Blah, blah, blah.

I don't know if you'll reply. Pop it in. How do I place the snare mic? Then, before you've even watched the videos, read the comments. Right. And the top comment is the most correct comment. And then judge it. The problem is, like, someone will say, oh, you have to place a snare mic like this on the kit that they're micing.

And then the minute you're faced with a different kit where there's this item over here, which is super fucking loud. And all of a sudden, your snare mic placement is now, getting all this bleed for that kit you want it placed here so i think like it's yeah it's about i suppose it's about learning there's a different video for that no you can fuck that well wait a minute how to place a snare mark do it if there's a high hat's too loud and most there mark oh new video watch that okay do that if if it was someone saying like this is what you want to achieve and this is how you get it now go apply these concepts to your unique setup that would be a good video but

I haven't watched many videos honestly, but I remember watching a few back in the day and it was like, this is how you EQ a kick. It's like there is no way in hell you can actually say. Without the actual fucking source. I meant replacing shit. There is kind of...

Yeah, maybe there's more of a consistency. Mixing or fucked because it depends on... Mixing is so hard. There'll be videos where people are like, yeah, I add 8 dB to 4K and it's like, well, okay, what if I recorded 16 dB hotter than you? Like, then actually,

doing a scoop at everything else. Like that's, I would say, watch a bit of YouTube. Yeah, it'll get you going. But don't, yeah, don't try and mix on YouTube. Pay a professional to mix. I learned how to mix on, yeah, definitely. I learned how to mix on the Andy Sneep forums back in the day.

Andy Sneep? He did like Exodus, like an old thrash producer, fucking great tones. And I just, I literally went on there and I was like, how do I do this? I got a bit of a ballpark. and I kind of learned how to mix, but then my stuff sounded good,

and then I got to the stage, and I was like, there's other people like you said that have been doing it for 25 years. I'm just going to it. I've got my engineering gown. Make it sound insane. Yeah.

And then they do, wizards. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I also never skimp out on mastering. It's like the one thing that when people are like, oh, I don't even get it.

What's the difference? Or like, I'll just have my guy who's, well, so many people don't know. The guy who's mixing, it's going to just do it. that right I'm like that's the one place especially if it's like a passion project or something that you put a lot into like you're giving up at the last biggest hurdle like there's there should always be budget for mastering I sound like I'm master and I'm trying to get working I just there are some

producers people who don't know what mastering is it's not mixing because some people think because the word master that that's the more important one they're both massively important the mixes you You could master a fucking... You can't polish a turge. They mastered St. Ango. It needed a mix. It needed a fucking mix first. In fact, it's one of the loudest records of all time.

Just amplifying how bad the mix was. Fucking crazy. But like, okay, so you mix, it sounds good. And then mastering is not only achieving broadcast volume, so it's the same as everything else, but it's bringing out punch in the, in the highs, in the lows, giving that final shine to the recording. It's like consistency between everything.

You listen to a mix in your car and you go, dude, you've nailed it. Thank you for this. And then you listen to it on your studio monitors and you go, vocals are loud. And then you listen to it on your AirPods and you go, vocals is here quiet? Yeah. And then you get it mastered and you go, here it is. Oh. So the mastering, for a lot of people that won't know,

the mixing will be every stem of every instrument and then traditionally mastering is just a stereo mix of the whole mix and then they they use that so it's really really quite a skill to just take this mix one stereo file and bring out stuff with EQ and compression and all that stuff there are some people yens boggrens springs to mind the guy does OPEF um he does stem mastering so he'll have i've never fucked with that. He'll have kick. Okay. Sorry, he'll have kit. Yeah. It'll be all that shit. All the buses, weren't it? Seems like just giving

yourself too much work. Yeah. But he does an amazing job. Fair. Yeah, I use Mike Kalli She fucking... I don't know who anyone is. Rush is, dude. He's so good. We've got an ocean song. Actually, when's this episode coming out? Ish?

We've got... Okay, I'll just say the date. I don't need to say it will be out. There's a notion of song coming out on the 31st of Jan. It will be out. Cool. It's out now, motherfuckers. Damn.

Well, that was mastered by Mike. And, like, the difference in the mix to the master, like, the mix was fantastic. The master was unbelievably sick.

And, like, even Nick messaged him and he said, like, how the hell of you, like, how are you making it this sick? And his reply was some it along the lines of,

like, that'll be the half a million or however many, dollars is spent on analog gear and this and that and the other and I'm like you know you just can't that is something that you can't really put a price on like you have to just get this done right and it's music's legacy man when you release some it that's out forever like even after you die like imagine skimping out at the last second like just fucking get it right I will say this though for the most part when you see remastered when someone releases something remastered nine times out of 10, it didn't need remastering and it's just a cash grab because you go remaster,

that sounds good. Sometimes, however, a remaster is absolutely needed. Nine times out of 10 when I hear a remastered version, I prefer the original still because like it's nostalgic. This is what I loved back in the day and now it's like tech changed and it's lost the energy or whatever I was fond of. Much more, much less common but better. I like, and it usually means it meant to happen, is a remix and a remaster. Poison the Well did it, remixed two records, who else?

OPEF did it. Yeah, OPEF did a remix and remaster. Someone else, it's very rare because it takes a lot more work, and the original producer still has to have all those stamps. Is this they still have that? Who's keeping those stems, someone? I have to delete fucking texts

to get my text to come through. my phone. You know what? Fuck me. What phone you got? Actually, that's a lie. I just upgraded to the latest 15, iPhone 15. But before, like, a week ago before I got this, I literally had to, like, delete the Uber app to accept my texts.

I'd reply to everyone, delete all the text chats and then re-download the Uber. Because it was like one or the other, it was jacked. What was the phone? Just an old fucking iPhone. It was like a... I don't know. It was an iPhone, though. It was, like not mad old, but it was just jacked. Tell me it wasn't an Android.

No, it was not a friend. Simon's on Android. I'm going to have to check his fucking hard drive. Simon's a psychopath. Yeah, I know, right? I don't know. How are we doing what? He's on thin ice. If he didn't pull that back earlier on, he'd be on fucking thin ice.

Do you want to go, we're very drummy. Do you want to go into, I asked you to prepare two truths and a lie for me? Which I have definitely remembered. Have you got, I'm written down. I don't need reference at all. No, you can reference. Cool. You asked me for two.

truths. Yeah, two truths and a lie. Don't give me fucking 11 truths, brough. I don't need, how many a truth? I thought there was going to be 11. I was going to be like, you know. There's about 15. Why are you doing that? Because I couldn't pick. And I have no lies.

There's no lies. Well, I can make up a lie. Oh my God. Okay. The game is ruined. We're going to have to do a different game. No, this is insane. Do you know the concept of the game? I even gave you the preface. Right. This is what I said when I was like, I'm not as prepared as other people. And he was No, you're over-prepared.

All right, do this. This is a roller coaster for me. Pick three of those things. Okay. Right. And change one. No, the most insane one. Yeah.

Pick two of those things. This is, that was what I was going to do. Right. Yeah. But you need to have the lie on deck. I'll take one of the other ones and I'll like mad modify it. Well, you can just make up any old lie, but the whole game is where I think the most insane one is a lie. And then you go, actually, that's the tree from me all have a laugh about it.

and then you tell me the story behind it. I thought it was a good fucking podcast idea. I thought the Dream Festival was a good podcast idea. I'm trying, guys. Right now I feel this big because of it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, come on.

Two truths and a lie. We can play, we can play. I'll read them all off my phone. No, I need two. They're all true. I need two truths. No, I know one of them's going to be a lie. And one light.

Don't give me more. Don't give me more than three things right now. Don't give me more than three things. Okay. Okay. let me just let me think of three fucking sentences let me think of a lot real quick don't put the oh now is he putting the lie first is he putting it third go see games back on yeah right um okay on my 22nd birthday i was living in california and i got drunk and i didn't want to get off

the sofa so i decided to put the sofa and the dining table and actually everything i could move I couldn't really move the oven, but like everything I could move in the pool so I could continue drinking beer on my sofa, but I wanted to be in the pool. Okay. That's a face. That is fucking insane. Yeah, because it's a lie. All right. Sure.

I played a show in Vegas and I just shit myself. I was sick and I just shit myself. All right. And Jim's. Yeah. Yeah. You mean the next sentence because then I'm going to. Jim's asked me to plug my butt hole with.

tissue paper before the show and I didn't listen to him and then I don't know if it would have changed anything but that was okay um and then my other one concept of podcasting the the extra tip bits he gave us there we're supposed to go into in a minute is now just giving us the whole story give me a fucking sentence okay uh I once was in a police car with Jason Richardson okay uh and I asked him for a selfie and he turned me down he like embarrassingly turned me down. I was like embarrassed. I hope that was true.

Well, you have to pick Mr. Game Master. It doesn't fucking matter now because I want all three stories but the joke is that the most insane one is true. No, you told me that you want them all to be insane. Yeah. And they're all pretty insane, right?

All three are those true? Did you mean three truths? No, I'm playing the game. I understand the game. Let's just say the... Craig. Let's just say the first one was a lie because I didn't even fucking understand it.

That was true. The first one was true. I've got a photo. Let me find it. Please wait. If Simon was on fucking iPhone, you could air drop him, but you can't. You're going to have to air drop me, and I'm going to have to WhatsApp it to Simon, and he's going to have to fucking put it over

this episode. It's a really sub thing. Give me the story again? Because it was insane. I'm hoping I can... Oh, no, I found the photo. I found a photo. there was a we were it was our first ever US tour I think I went on the tour when I was 21 no maybe I was 20 no yeah fuck me it was my 22nd birthday

that was dead so I went out on this wasn't a lie yeah this is true yeah I went on my first ever US tour I was 21 and then there was like a like a six or an eight week gap and then we had another US tour and our label said to us, we can, without dropping a beat.

Our label said to us like, even his burps are in time. And it, dude, we can fly you back and then fly you back, but for the same cost, we can get you like a dope ass, like place and just stay out here.

Yeah. And like, we were like, we're going to stay. Yeah. So they got us this place, dude. We had,

we had a pool. We had a hot tub. We had a fucking basketball court. It was like, where was it, sorry? It's in Palm Springs. It was like the fucking celebrity.

What label was this? Fearless. It was like the, like the celebs go to Palm Street. I bumped into a celebrity. I pranked one. I pranked a fucking celebrity. Why isn't this on the fucking list?

Well, it is now. I bumped into, what's his name? John Barronman. I bumped into John. Who the fuck's John Barron? I think he was Doctor Who. Oh, give a shit.

Nah, people like him. Which Doctor Who? I'm fucking that. Oh, Dr. He? No, he does. Hey, Simon, John Barronman. This is exactly why you're here. John Barrow Man.

Well, I saw him in the shop, and I had a basket, and he had a trolley, and I was like, you'll film this. And I just went up to him, and I just started taking shit out of his trolley and putting in my basket for a video. That is classic. And then we chatted to him afterwards. Like, he was freaked out at the time, but then we chatted to him, and he found it hilarious. He was, like, put it online.

The doctor. He was good. He was good about it. He was in Doctor Who? He's not the doctor. Who is he? What, like a fucking space slug or something? Space Slug.

He was in the show, Torchwood. was in Arrow. Yeah, I thought that's another one. I think he's a bit cancelled. Oh, is he? Hit me with the John Barrow juice. Uh-oh.

Carry on, I'll find it. TBC. Well, yeah, Frank, I've met him once. Yeah, you were taking out, like, kids' toys out of his fucking trolley. You're like, that's be weird. I'm sure he didn't have a kid.

To have him, dude. Yeah, that's close that one, isn't it? Anyway, anyway, there was a pool, and I had my 22nd birth there and I was sitting on the sofa drinking beer and like living my life and I was like dude I want to go in the pool so fucking bad and everyone was like yeah we want to go in the pool and I was like I don't want to go off the sofa like I'm so like comfortable on the sofa so we we started by moving the sofa into the pool and like it's kind of floated which was

mad in someone in an Airbnb yeah I was like a young fucking asshole 22's bit old for those high chinks it was a fucking wanker and it did it was a fucking wanker and it was my first US tour. Like everything was super like mad. Who paid for that water damage? Oh, I'm not done. So we put like everything in the pool, though. Like every.

I mean, there's the photo. That's me. I'm sorry. Oh my God. You rock and roll. There was, under there is this. Under there is a glass type.

That's the glass dining table. I did a fucking back flip into the pool and landed on that and it didn't smash. It hurt. That's the back injury. The famous back injury. I had to have back surgery. It's fucking. That is a horrible thing to do.

I hope you've learned from that. What, we did, because the next day, we took everything out at the pool, but then the next day, the guy who was running the Airbnb came around, and the pool would turn green, and he was like, what the fuck have you done? And we obviously told him.

And he just said, look, you gotta pay for this. You left all the shit in there? No, we took it out, but it made the water go green for some reason. Well, I put in a fucking couch and now we do it. I think that was actually it. I think it was the phone. I'm conducting one of my experiments. Usually I do it on my right foot, my left foot.

But this time, it's a sofa and your fucking pool. Reckless. But anyway, he was like super cool with us because he knew that we were a band coming to stay. And he was like, don't break anything. Don't get, don't pipe, don't get too drunk. And we were like, we won't, but then we did. Well, that's like worse than that one band putting a TV out the window, like fucking Black Sabbath or whoever that was.

Oh, great. Yeah, I feel awful. No, it's actually quite cool, but why didn't... He was super cool about it. He said, just pay for it and we're chilling. What can you be cool about that? He was like... He was a fuck out.

He was a rad dude. I don't. Good for him. Yeah, but we, like, we paid for it. And we... You about to say, I doubt he's alive now with the old? No, he was like, you know, like adult age. Where is that apparently not 22?

Nah. No, like, I can't really remember. How old are you now? I'm 30. I'm 30. Do you consider yourself an adult? Yeah, dude. Yeah.

Grown up six 36 yeah I don't 37 and 2 months when would you when would you say you was like I'm an adult no dude I don't know because on paper my life has never ever been on paper I won't be an adult yeah I've never ever done it I had I worked after school I went to college and then after college I worked in a warehouse at music distributor and then I worked in an off license which is a liquor store if you're in America And then that was it. I went, I started touring, I started teaching drums

and I've never ever had a boss since then. So I don't ever feel like I'm an actual adult. Dude, mine's maybe weirder. I've only really had two jobs. I was hanging out with John Barrow, man. And I worked as a rock climber. I worked as a rock climber. I worked as a rock climber.

To climbing up rocks. Grab that fucking rock up there, Chris. No, it was like I was instructing. I was route set in. I was doing all kinds of like, general center management stuff. And then I was just drumming. That's good.

Yeah, it's, yeah. Forever child. That's why I didn't learn not to put couches in pools. Right, what was the next one again? What a wanker. It was, I'm not proud of it,

look, but. It was resolved. It definitely is worthy of this truth and life. I'm glad it happened for this. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah. I'm glad I've got a photo as well. If you hadn't told me you didn't have a lie,

I would have said that one was a lie. That's so fun. So that's fun for the game. Yeah, I know. But if we'd have, if we'd come into it real good, but it's my bag. No, we can, we can come into it wherever you want. You have an editor.

No, I'm not, I don't like to edit my shit. No, no samples. No samples. No sample podcast. All of Chris's burps are sampled. Dude, you should actually do that. You should take like a really, like, weird sound and every time a burp play that sound instead. Or just pay Barney from the Simpsons burp.

No, but to be honest, yours are funnier. The next one you do, I'll put Barney on it. I'll do it. Simon will do it. Simon, John Barrowman. Cancellation, too dark for broadcast? No, no, he was doing a Louis CK. He just gets his cock out all the time.

It's his cock out. That's a minor cancellation, but it is naughty. Did he get his cock out when you were... It is naughty. When you were stealing stuff? Definitely not. We were in Albertsons. I took some chili.

His cock. I took some chili his pants. Dude, yeah. All right, what was your next? What was your next? The next one was me shitting myself during a show. Wait, so the lie is you and Jason Richardson. Wait, this is, you, you were telling me the rules.

Like, I didn't get it. Don't you have to guess? Yeah, and I guess wrong. So that means one of these left is still a lie. So this, you think this one's a true? Well, I've already guessed that I thought. I'm so fucking confused. I mean, I've already guessed the first one was a lie

and you told me it isn't. Oh, do you want to reach you, let's re-rack then? So out of the remaining two, what do you think? the truth. Nice. It's like a fucking black, black jacked. I pulled it back.

Yeah, I've really, some, some teething issues with this game. I also don't know the game fucking works. So what we got left, we got Jason Richardson,

cop car, didn't want to take a selfie with you. And shitting myself on stage. Shitting yourself on stage. Now that I've done. So I would say that is true. Okay. And I would say Jason Richardson one is.

And I win the game. Why? Because what? How do you even win this game that I... Because you guessed wrong every time And so I fooled you, so I went, right? So which one is a lie? Well, use your process of deduction.

We've established I have no fucking process of deduction. So you shitting yourself a lie? Yeah. Never shitting yourself. Uh, no. Not on stage. I shit myself twice. You know what once was actually...

Once was on stage after having food poisoning, literally what you described. Brueel. Did someone... Did one of your band members of... advise you to stick tissue in your back. No. I didn't even realize it had happened. And then afterwards, I was like, oh, there's shit in my pants. And then the second time, much, much darker.

After I, I broke my back, I broke my back. I didn't have surgery or anything. But like, I, the day after I'd done it, there must have been some, like, weird nerve shit. Oh, and I was just washing up and I shit myself. I was just at the fucking doing the dishes, which I rarely do anyway. And I just shit myself.

I think that's actually to do with. the kind of anesthesia that they use. In Amity, I had no surgery or anything. Oh, true. You just said that. Yeah. Oh, damn, dude. Just, I straight up old school shit. Old school shit. I got old school shit in the pants.

Can you? Oh, fuck. No, I shit myself in school as well. I was going to ask, can you help me to find old school and like new, like, well, because I was trying to think when I shit myself in school, that was new school. No, when I shit myself in school, I was in assembly and I just fucking crack my pants. I can't even remember why it happened. Just, you know, sat on the fucking floor. And, you know, like in assembly that sometimes was, like, kids, I was fucking super young. Shat myself, shot into it, all my pants, all the classic.

And then I was the one that was like, I need to fucking divert, like, I need to divert the attention here. So I was like, has someone farted? And I was sat there in the shittiest fucking pants ever. I had to phone my mum. I had to go home. There is a lot of shit in there. I'm laughing, but I feel so sad at this conversation. Because it's just a sad time.

A sad time with a kid shitting themselves. I've got new and old school shit stories in one session, and it's a bit much to... I don't know how to unpack this. Well, that's fine. We can move on. So Jason Richardson wants true. Yeah. He called you in the back of the thing.

Are you cool with each other? Yeah, no, we're mates, for sure. It was... It was my fault. It was my ignorance. There's actually... There you go. You got everything you wanted.

You wanted me to elaborate on the story and you've got a good elaboration here. So carry on. Thank you. Pat on the head. He's got an empty beer look of him. You need to drink faster. I'm too busy.

Hey, you're doing more talking. I'm podcasting just as much as you're podcasting. I'd tell you're podcasting more. I'm podcasting and beering more. Yeah, I'm just. You know, I'm just enjoying the moment. No, this is a no pressure environment. Also, I need to stay slightly

cohesive to keep railing the conversation. Railing, dude. Because it was de-railing, and I'm railing. So, just to confirm, you're railing me. I'm railing the fuck out of you right now. I'm glad we cleared that. And I'm shitting myself while I do it. Sick, dude.

What happened? It's quite bad, actually. We were on this tour. It was a bus share. were in Europe or in Poland actually when it happened. And one of the members of one of the other bands on the tour, he were on, I was,

so I was fast asleep, I'm explaining it horribly, I was fast asleep in bed upstairs, downstairs, the guys were drinking, whatever. And one of the band members, he, he,

he, I guess he mistake, he got the, the actual door instead of the bathroom door. Black tongue. Yes, he mixed it up and he, he sadly was sucked out of the bus on the, the motorway. We were doing, we were moving at 70. Is he okay? Because I heard that story. He's

okay. He's okay. He wasn't okay. It was really bad. In fact, the paramedics said the only reason that he didn't actually die. I don't know if I want to talk about it too much because it's like his personal information, but like, eh, give me it. It was like the main reason he didn't die is because he was so drunk he was all floppy. And then it was, there was a lot of snow and it's sort of like, I guess the ice like preserved him to a certain extent. But it was like a really, really tragic, Like proper sad occasion, like really horrible occasion. And everyone was in such, like the atmosphere was so horrible. Because everyone was so worried.

Yeah, it's fucking traumatizing. It was really, yeah. But here's the thing. I was asleep. I didn't know. Right. I didn't know any of it. So I get woken up and it's like, hey, the police are here.

We all have to go give a statement for what you saw happen. So you got to go go give you statement. So I was all of a sudden, like, you know, I'd just woken up, I threw some clothes on. I got in the back of this police car, and they were doing it in pairs, I guess, and I was paired with Jason. And I didn't know what the fuck had happened,

but I guess he did. So he was super sad and, like, man, this sucks. And I was like, I'm in a police car with Jason Richardson. Yeah. You want a selfie? Oh, God, that's the worst look ever.

It's so bad, dude. And he just kind of looked at me and he went, no dude so he didn't call guy you he was actually no it was it was it was just like a total mismatch were you like pissed when you went to bed as well so you woke up like still pissed i was like completely confused yeah um obviously when i learned what happened i was like holy fuck it it was definitely a story but yeah i i to like summarize it yeah i asked jason for a

selfie in a in a police car and i was turned away but for a good fucking reason. When, like, what age were you, like, your own, you're relatively young for someone who's such a freak of nature. I'll take that. I feel old. I mean, 30 for being as good as you are.

Thank you. What time? What time, what time exactly, were you born so I can do your star-time? Now, when do you start playing the drums and, like, why? I started playing drums when I was four. Motherfucker.

Four? I didn't expect a reaction to that. Four? Yeah, you still do shit when you're four. You can do shit. This is the conversation I'm out of the podcast all the time when someone's got a kid and they're like, oh, they're like four and I'm like,

what is that like goo-go-gagga time still? I don't know. No, you can like, I mean, I did shit. Well, you fucking play the drums. Yeah. Who got you started on the drums? Me paps, my dad, my dad played drums. He never...

Was as good as me. No, he never like, pushed me into it. My ad. I literally went to him playing. he was playing an open air festival and I was watching the line check and that was the moment for me he like was stamping on the kick

and it like vibrated my whole ass body you can remember this yes that's cool and I was just like I'm gonna do that like my fucking dad made that sound that shook my whole ass body like that is he must feel like the king right now so so when you got a stage I said like

you got to show me how to do that and it never changed in my head like a baby maybe that's why I look kicks saying, you got to show me how to do that. Yeah, I didn't say, oh, fucking teach me how to do this year. In what language did this happen like? Because I just don't know what kids sound like. Funnily enough, I don't know too many four-year-old,

so I can, that's what I said before. Like, I taught. I might have been on the upper end of four, maybe a bit better. Because I only taught drums from like eight onwards, so I know what an eight-year-old is like and above, but then before that, I don't really have that many friends with kids. I might not be good, but I can't go in. I'm more interested in the conversation

Is it like Me do that Or is there like sentences done I'm not asking you to fucking answer This is a hypothetical Just fucking throwing out there No I've never thought about that I like it

It's one of those for me Where obviously like since that moment I've had that still repeated back to me by my mom and by people So like I speak of it like so factually But you are right When we break it down I wonder how that actually

Yeah how did it act went down. That's fun. What was the word said? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did he teach you then? You're good, don't worry. Style it off. He's just, if you're listening to Just the Audio,

he's just spilled a bit of beer on himself. How are you liking these new microphones from the shore? Otto. What was the sign? Oh, yeah. So I asked him if I could play drums because I wanted to do what he did. And then he taught me for a good few years, I think until six or seven.

and then he said, you know, like, it's getting, I guess it started to blur like boundaries or whatever because he'd be like, you know, I want you to work on this and I just fucking wouldn't. And then like the next week or whatever, he'd be like, have you worked on this or a few days or whatever, come around and you worked on it and I'm like, yeah. And he's like, no, you haven't.

I live here. Yeah. And it kind of got a bit like... They're a loud instrument. Yeah. So it got a bit like whatever. And he said, I'm going to get you a proper teacher. Like, I guess at that point he knows I'm serious enough about it

because I've been doing it for a few years. So a guy called AJ taught me at Birmingham Drum Center. And I definitely took it a bit more seriously then. It's not like I didn't respect my dad. It's not like a respect thing like that. It was just like a position of like difficult environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got the fire started.

That's it, that's it. And then it kind of transitioned away, I guess. I think that's why I love music because my parents always listened to music. Neither of them play an instrument. And they were super supportive of like, I want to play the drums. They were like, okay, we'll just deal with that noise. so like I'm super thankful I had that but I didn't have

like I don't think I had I think my one was yeah how old were you I was uh whatever age you are in the last year of primary school whatever that 10 or something 10 I know I was full form sentences I know that much um but I was like

they came to school not that goo goo gargash as you said they came to he's a fan they come they came to the school, like from the secondary school, high school, if you're American, they came to our school, whatever,

the lower one from that is in America, I don't know, grade school, I don't know, I'm making this up. And they were like, we're doing lessons, probably low on lessons. My teacher wasn't good, I got taught wrong. But I had the benefit of being taught wrong enough that when I went, not wrong, but like, technique was terrible.

When I got taught properly later on, I was like, oh, remind me to never ever teach like that when I go to do it. No, thanks to the guy, oh, it's probably a shithead kid as well. But they came to our school and were like, we're doing guitar lessons and drum lessons at the secondary school. And in my head, I was like, drums is pretty cool.

I better be able to get girls if I play the drums. That's what you thought? Yeah, definitely. How did that go? That's done all right, actually, to be very, not in any kind of creepy way. But there's a girl upstairs. My girlfriend.

Oh, yeah, that's like it. It didn't sound creepy at all until you said that. It went from not creepy to the most. creepy shit. You know what? It was like my initial thought was like oh I'll do that that'll be a way to be be cool and get girls. Okay. Which I think I think actually I tell that story and I say to get girls but I think it was just like that seems cool but it's a less funny story. And then like I sort of just fluff the wrong with it for a while and then I heard like rock music and I was like wait, I can kind of do that already.

Yeah. I was like, I'm in. Yeah. I guess that was kind of similar for the transition to like rock metal for me. Because I didn't grow up playing rock metal or anything like that. But when I first heard metal, I was like, because I was like, I was one of those like kids, dude, where I was like, I could read and write drum music by six. Yeah, I can imagine, mate. You don't have to sell me on this.

So lame. No, it's not. It's cool. Cool these days. At the time, probably fucking absolute nerd shit kick him about the school. Oh, little bait oven.

Ginger as well. Fucking ginger bait oven. That's it. Now look at you. Well, yeah, I guess I guess when I first heard metal, I was like, okay, I understand the theory and I understand exactly what they're doing,

but I've never heard it arranged like this, and that's really cool. Do you remember what it was? Yeah, between the buried in his Alaska. I was like, Whoa, that's late. And it, dude. I was like, I heard it and I was like,

what were we listening before that? Googga, shit. Yeah, dude, just straight up gooo gaggo. Tel-Tobby's theme. Yeah, dude, not notated telitubbies theme. What were you listening to before though, genuinely? Like a lot of sting, like sting and please. Like some Latin percussion stuff.

Like Vini's like that. Yeah. Oh, that's what he's good, motherfuckers. I like that stuff was what I grew up on. And then, yeah. Seven days? Oh, baby. In it.

Some of those live videos of it, sorry. I'm glad we're evolving. Now, when I first heard Alaska by between the buried in me, I was like, okay, like these are like, you know, these are cool groupings. This is like, it's got a cool flow. But the minute the screaming started, I was like, I don't, okay, I don't know what's going on now. Like, there's too much.

But I kept going back to listen to it's like, maybe got like a 30 second intro or something. I kept going back to listen to the intro because I lived that. And then after a while, I'd just kind of leave it on. I'd always turn it off from the screaming started. And then after a while I'll be like just leave it on And then after a while longer I'll be like oh there's some cool stuff here as well And then it just it's start yeah it just was

Well I'm still doing it now so a fucking deep dived I think that's fucking cool I think a lot of people are like that that's why the bands with the choruses that are singing But the screaming in the verses they do so well because It's like gateway shit yeah Sure yeah I mean I fucking hate it but It's great it's gateway I don't hate

between you buried me, but like, when it's like, I don't hate it, really. I hate it. There was that era of it just being really cookie cutter, like the chorus has to be sung, the verses has to be screened. Yeah, it was a bit carbon copy. The chorus was never, ever, like.

Well, I can't hate that too much because I think that's what kicked our career off. Because we got roped into that. That's probably why you hate oceans. Do you still? Yeah, all right, we'll get there. Just drop it now. Your face, though.

Just drop it. Come on. Just drop it. No, I mean, you've said that you don't like oceans, but look, I think... I never said I hate it. Okay. That's just not... Did I say that that?

I think you said you didn't like. Oh, hmm. You said that's why you hate oceans. Oh, cool. I didn't... I don't control my words. The mask dropped. Yeah.

No, I think, uh, if you're judging a son like older stuff, then I'm like, I'm totally with you. Yeah, exactly. That's probably what I've done. Because, like, when I hear that stuff now, I'm like, oh, man. And I've never just... checked it out past that stuff. And I was such a different person and drummer back then.

Like I was trying to show off. I wanted to show people like, look, I can do loads of shit on drums and I was forcing shit and I didn't need to put in because I just wanted to like just show, just wanted to show off. I don't think it was the drums that put me off. I definitely think it was the singing.

Okay. Well, either way, it was like an era back then of like, you know, I don't think anyone wants to be judged on who they were when they were like 16. You know what I mean. But when we wrote clocks, which started our career,

I was 15 when we wrote 16 in the video. Like, I was just a kid. dude. Really? I don't know. I'll check that out again. But like,

don't check out. Googaga. But like, you know, the older stuff, like some of the songs did quite well, but, you know, when we talk about live sets,

I'm like, I do not want to play these songs. Like they're just, I don't like them. I don't want to play them. But we've recently undergone some changes anyway. I guess if the song's out by now, sorry,

if this episode is out and the song's out, people already know. but um you know we've undergone some changes we've we've parted ways with two of five members and we've moved forwards with a different vocalist we've gone down to a four piece and uh we've like kind of reformed that sound and stuff and you actually know the vocalist who is it uh silent screams joel yeah and he's you've never heard him sing i've never heard him sing if that man can sing let me tell you about that man's the amount of penis work that man's gonna have to be doing Jesus, cry.

He's got a kid. I'm sure he's got a missus, but fuck me. That's a good looking guy. You tell me that guy can sing. He's very attractive. No, dude, he can fucking sing really. Oh, that's why he was at your studio

the other day. We were on the phone. And he was there. I was like, what's he up to? So, well, I record his, he's in a hardcore band as well called Spitting Teeth. I record them as well. I can't remember if he was doing that or oceans.

But, yeah, dude, like, it's not like, I guess like the sort of like singing you was described. where it's more like, you know, commercial sing and then Mad Scream. Yeah. His singing is very, like,

it's very emotive. It's very heartfelt. It's very gritty and grunchy. See, I like that. I like your loaves, your spirit boxes. I like a singer, but there was that time of metalcore where it was like,

this is the chorus. Right now, this is the verse. And I'm like, I'm fucking out. I know that song. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was about the fucking name boxing band. So sign there, SM7V.

What a nice fucking growl that was. Let's just the call. No, that's the verse. No, you fuck that. Carry on. That's why I'm not the singer. I want to play the song. You play me the song after this.

Yeah, but it would be so cool if I could play it as a song. I could have asked me. And then we could have. Yeah, that's a good podcast. We could have another P break. I could play the song and then we could resume. Because maybe then you'll be like on the podcast. Like, I like oceans.

I can do that for you. Simon, we're going to, we're going to, Simon, we're going to take a break and listen to this song. Simon, I think you have great. Right, we're back, we listened to it. It was terrible. I don't know what he's fucking talk about.

No, it was good. Joel's good. No, right, I want you to be dead ass, though. Well, the thing is, I now... Because it's different when you're in the room with me. Are you going to say, like, oh, I really didn't vibe it. I want you to say, if you didn't vibe it,

I want you to say you didn't five it. No, I prefer him so much to the other guy. Like, but not only that, there's, like, to you on that like the intro the outro the breakdown i'm assuming like the patterns and since watching 40-year-old and then your solo stuff i'm like i'm a christ turner fan so now it sounds more like chris turner with interest with a better singer i'm like yeah i mean interesting name still sucks no i'm not like um obviously i don't i'm not saying anything bad about previous members it's

just like the progression isn't it for me for me it's like at the time we loved exactly what we're doing but it just didn't work out anymore for anyone. It wasn't good for either party. So it feels like a good progression for everyone here. But like for how I feel right now and my taste right now, like I'm so stoked on that new song, dude. I'm happy for Joel as well. And also that bit,

a bit that I made you replay. A little blast section. It's actually a bit after the blast section. It's the feat after. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like you wonder why people think you're fake.

It's literally insane. It's a group of 10, I think. Yeah, it's just a group of 10. It's just a group of 10 at a fucking 50 billion BPM. That's all. With those samples, played as hard as a fucking jack camera. I think it's,

it's 1.4. I think it's 1.40. It's either 130, 140, I can't remember. So it's, to you, it's 30-second note triplets. 30-second notes. 30-second notes. 30-second note triplets will be faster.

At 140? I think so. I'm pretty certain. It's 1-30, 1-40. I think it's 1-40. Yeah, it sounds like 280 in my head. Mm. To wait for the kids.

That's really for much. Too 80 for the kids. I mean, that's really fucking... No, it's like a lot of ink. Oh, Doug. Get a new pen. There's so many fucking, that's so much. I need a pen endorsement.

But you actually, is this the moment then when you're officially saying, like, you know, that new ocean song? I like that. Yeah, I've just said it. Yeah, I just want to confirm. If I was still, you know what, I've done, I'm going back to, I'll do reactions on Twitch now.

I don't put them on YouTube. I think it's... I think the, I think reaction culture is parasitic and I tried to do like a different version of it which came across as fucking mean, apparently. But no one was doing the mean reaction. So I was like, yeah, I'll fucking do those. And then it was like something to do during the pandemic

and now I'm too fucking busy. So it's like, I'll still, videos I want to watch, I'll still put Twitch on and I'm going to watch it. So I'm going to watch that one. Okay. Yeah. Also, you're saying you was like bored and had nothing to do. No, you're mad busy.

so stoked that you're busy dude honestly like it makes me really happy to see you like making a fucking making a rig of what we do it's not easy I see you doing it as well we're all out trying you know

how many what's your what's your hustles right now if you had to count your hustles okay there is my online lessons which I sell there's my Skype lessons which I don't do too many of like one to ones you got a foot one on these online lessons

yeah I'm going to have to buy that I'm honestly genuinely going to have to buy it because I'll just I need fucking help. No, I'll buy it. It's sport. All right, cool. Yeah, I'm here for a few hours like over dinner. We'll just talk. Online lessons.

Well, I tried to get it out of you earlier. I was actually just four years old. Online lesson hustle. Okay. Where can they get that? My website. Was it Chris Turner. Dramos?

Chris Turner. No, it is Christina Drums. You're right. Fuck me. You knew and I didn't. Yeah. Got it. I got lesson packs.

I've also got like transcriptions available on there. available on there and other lessons. I've got my Spotify and my royalties. That does all right for me. I actually wanted to ask you about this. Yeah. I do.

No, you're not splitting that with anyone. That's just raw dog straight to the Chris dog. Yeah, if anyone's watching this and you like what I do, streaming my shit helps.

Thank you so much. Like 30,000 monthly listeners for just a guy. I mean, I get like, like look at some of the plays like 1.6 mil, 1.4. If you, no label, no nothing. Yeah, you're making money there.

Yeah. So I got my, I got my, for you. I'm happy for you, bro. Thank you, dude. You deserve me. I need to finish my thing because I'm getting distracted. We're good. And brain scans are going to fucking pull up some stuff.

I'd have like a big, like, explosion right now. Yeah. If anyone's watching this that does brain scans, by the way, I've tried to find someone that would do this video with me and everyone said no. I had one person say they'll do brain scans for me, but not when I'm playing drums. and I want to see the brain activity when I'm playing. Is it like electrodes on the head, or is it like you need to put a CT scanner out of your body?

I mean, I'm not fucking, I don't know shit about it. That's why I need someone to help me. But I think they can just put a rig on my head. But I think the issue with it is like having a kit in there. But like if anyone's like does brain shit, you know, hit me up. Hit up the brain man about your brain shit. Yes.

Skype lessons, lesson packs online, my Spotify, my YouTube, my merch store. drum shows make me quite a lot. Writing drums and recording drums for other bands. I know there's going to be more. I think when I normally count it's up between 8 and 10.

You got merch? I think I said merch store. Did you? Oh, you did so much. Yeah. I've got between like 8 and 10 revenue streams now. And I don't, none of them,

none of them are necessarily strong enough on their own for a living but combined they're definitely strong enough. Yeah, I had a little like epiphany about my hustles. I was like, if I can make far, What did I do the maths on? I think it was like if I can make five hustles, make $20 a day or $20 a day.

Yeah, that's it then. That's 75 grand a year. That's it, yeah. And I was like, that's my 2024 thing. I was like, I can fucking easily do that. I think the thing that people don't consider as well is they talk about, like, what they make on a day rate at their job, but then they work a four day week or a five day week.

But like, you know, my Spotify on my YouTube is every day of forever. you know what I mean like and it things like that do offset it but for me it's like the random jobs offset it like I got a mad job in last week dude unbelievably mad job yeah like paying so high TBAH though you fucking deserve it oh thank you dude you've been grafted into you're fucking four and I bet you you didn't get paid good money until like relatively recently I've only ever just started getting like oh wait I deserve this yeah dude I mean like I mean, I toured for over a decade. My first at least three or four years,

I was in debt. Touring was costing, and then after that, it wasn't making money it was breaking even. I did that with this originally. Yeah, I got a nine grand credit card

and I was like, during the pandemic, I was like, I'm just going to fucking give this a go. You're honest something I found interesting. Have you noticed that people don't want to know when you, at that stage? But then when you're at a stage

where you're like, oh, Chris, how come you've got three cars or whatever? How come you've got this? How can you do you doing that? Like, then they want, then they're like, oh, I'm so proud of you for doing this. But when it was tough and you needed the support,

they were like, dude, maybe it's time you just like get a job and do this. Yeah. Not every, not, not, there's definitely people that, like, really look down on you.

Yeah. And then, well, you were probably putting your fucking stuff in their swimming pool, to be fair. But, no, I fully feel that. And you know what, though?

I feel, I feel the other way as well. Oh, yeah, there's the day ones as well. I like sometimes if I post something that I'm proud of successful wise

I'll have like someone drop off the Patreon and then they'll leave a thing saying like oh he's doing all right now so it doesn't need my support and I'm like oh interesting

I don't expect what with all your respect I really fucking need your support that's interesting the nice thing came from your support please continue to give me the support I can't remember what it was I posted one thing and like, I had, I wouldn't, if it was one person, I wouldn't send anything,

but it was like two people dropped off the Patreon. It was when you got your new car? Was it my car? Yeah. Fucking doxing me in my car. It's not even that nice. Matey boy has got three cars. Yeah, it was two right now.

It was a, it was a, yeah. Only two right now. It was the only time I've ever bought myself a nice car and we're fucking life. And it's on finance, so I'm fucking paying per month. But I posted it and there was a bunch of DMs. And then there was a bunch of, there were two people left the Patreon. And I was like, I'm just never going to post that again.

Fair enough. Would you rather I was starving and poor? I'm fucking starving. Yeah, dude. I flew in today. I had like a hungry flight. I was promised food on arrival. I had a cereal bar.

Deliveroo, your orders on its way. So we should wrap this up. Eight minutes. Oh, okay. What else? When we got left, that's it. We done it. We're talking about nice things still.

Go on. What do you want? Like, I don't know, I had loads of things and now I don't have anything because of this situation. They can, the food can sit on a table. It doesn't matter. Nah, I think the only thing I have to say is like, there's definitely the day ones as well. There's the people that have been like, you've got to do this no matter what. And then even like, everyone has the moments, even in recent times when you're like, what am I doing?

And then there's still the people still there saying, dude, come on. Like, I got a few boys. I got a few family members. and like, oh, I'm so much for that. You know what I mean? Like, that shit's like insane. I was having a, I was having a, like, one of those crises at the beginning of this year. I was just like, am I, like, am I fucking, yeah, I was like, am I fucking doing this or does everyone hate, I have a fool?

Like, does everyone actually fucking hangy me is like, because right now everything's going pretty well, but I just can't enjoy it. So I was just like, is everything about to fucking crumble this year is the, like last year the podcast did the best it's ever done. is it going to fuck up this year and all this shit and I was super super self-doubtful and I was coming back from being down south and I was driving back we stopped at services and we were in a line to get Costa

and I know shitty coffee but we're in a line to get coffee and this guy Mick his name was came up to me and was like oh man love the YouTube channel and I was like I sit and he worked for like this PGA golfer's YouTube channel he's like oh I love your edits and stuff

and I was like oh that made me feel really fucking nice then I got to the counter and the guy behind the counter went are you in straight from the bath and I was like yeah and I was like it was like the perfect moment no what his name was um my perfect moment of me biggest amount of self that I've had in years and then one service station two people like next to each other and I was like oh that's fucking that felt fucking great that's nice come and talk to me please yeah yeah yeah I think for me it comes in ways like

because it's like I feel with the more revenue streams the more stable things are the more consistent things are for like income but I still have my months where things just dip and like sometimes dude like I had a had a very bad month last year and I was like reconsider everything what mentally or financially or financially I just had a month it was it was December's normally bad it wasn't too bad for me this year but like I had a month last year and I was like what am I fucking playing that but then like this month I got this job in and I'm like damn dude that's going to pay for like at least half my year like in one job it's You can't tell me what it is?

I'll tell you after. But it's like, but I do like a lot of work with games as well. Like I write music for games or PC games. It's that where the money is. Sometimes. Because I did a thing for Diablo 4 and Xbox. My God, did I get paid?

I just, fucking amazing. Yeah, dude. That's it though. Like, I think you got to have like thick skin for it. You know what I mean? Because there will be the bad months,

but then there is the good months. And they do balance out overall. But like in the dips, dude, it's so easy to like be in the dip. Yeah, fuck me. Still on the gaming thing though. Do you find that like because the game, the games industry is bigger than the movie industry.

Yeah. I think combined. Like did you find or do you find doing work for that like makes you, I want to say, see I did this thing for Diablo and I was like, and it was like my first actual full influencer thing where they were just like, we're going to pay you to do. go to this shit, post this shit, whatever.

Sweet. And if I can pay for me. I've only ever heard one of them. And it was like, I was like, oh my God, there is money. These companies, and it made me actually kind of annoyed at the music industry because I was like, I know you've got money,

motherfuckers, you're just used to us working for so cheap, everything's so cheap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I can imagine what I pay for music is fucking crazy as well. I mean, I had a moment with one game

where I wrote them four tracks. wait, no, I forget. I wrote them like X amount of tracks and I was really happy with my pay but then when I found out how much they paid someone else for one track and it was like way more than all of mine combined and then I got that feeling of like

oh man. Wait, was this the games industry as well? Yeah, that was in the games. Motherfuckers, they are cheaping out. They are. I thought maybe they just paid really well. I mean, that's like a hindsight thing though because at the time with what I did and what I got I was incredibly happy with it was only when I compared it to what someone else got

that then I was unhappy with it. So in hindsight, I'm sorry, I'm super grateful. I'm happy with it. But I guess it just made me reform my price for the next one. But like, I've done somewhere. I've been like, dude, this is fucking sick. Are you annoyed that you didn't get food on arrival?

It's only just registered that you said that. Massively. Okay. Like super, super angry. Food is coming. It's nearby. They're going to be here in a minute. We've got to wrap us up.

I'm wrapping shit. This is your... Hey, thanks for cut. Genuinely, thanks for coming. He's made the trip all the way here. It's a long time coming. I'm sorry you thought I didn't like you. But I literally.

I now consider you a friend. I hope we become good friends because you're a fucking amazing drummer, amazing attitude to working and just a fucking happy guy. Same to you, dude. I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot. Unbeknownst to me.

No, yeah, I mean, it was just miscommunication. I'm sorry about that. It was me, so don't be sorry. But you're the best. Come on again, though. Legend. Yeah, come back. That was a terrible fist contest again.

It's because you know what it is? This cuts people sometimes. Oh. My Zildian ring cuts people. Hit me, baby. Simon, you've done a wonderful job. Leave this in because it's your first day at school. Uh, goo-guga.

Guga. Guga. Guga. Guga. Gagga from Simon there. Lovely. Right, we're done.