The Downbeat - CODY QUISTAD: WAGE WAR’S NEW ERA, ‘OCTANECORE’ + THE CURRENT STATE OF HEAVY MUSIC.

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

My guest on the podcast this week is Cody Quistad, guitarist of Wage War. With 4.3 BILLION streams to his name, Cody is also an incredibly talented and sought-after songwriter. We caught up to talk about Wage War’s new EP ‘It Calls Me By Name’ as well as what he thinks of the modern scene and the term’ Octanecore’ - when heavy breakdowns meet active rock choruses, which is something that Cody pretty much single handedly brought into the mainstream. Big brain on this lad.

What's up guys, welcome back to the Downbeat podcast. My guest on the podcast this week is Cody Quistad, guitarist of Wage War, with 4.3 billion streams to his name. He is also an incredibly talented and sought after songwriter. We caught up to talk about Wage War's new EP, It Calls Me By Name, as well as what he thinks of the modern scene and the term Octane Corps, when heavy breakdowns meet active rock choruses. Something that Cody himself was pretty much single, candidly responsible for, we're going to find out what he thinks about it. They're also about to start a big old tour with the Downbeat Favorites Orthodox. Make sure you check that out. There's our big brain on this lad.

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Listeners of the podcast can get a massive 30% off any Neural DSP plugin by going to NeuralDSP.com and using the code downbeat. Check it out. Anyway, it's Cody Quistad of Wage War on the Downbeat podcast. Cody Quistad, welcome back. What's up, dude? Why do I say welcome back? Well, because this is...

Do you want them to know or not? Yeah, yeah, we can let them know or no. Yeah, it's up to you. Well, we did an episode probably like a year ago. It was July. I looked today. And we were just chilling. Yeah.

The weather was nice. It was just like a conversation. No, Snowmageddon. No, Snowmageddon. Nothing was happening. nothing was you had nothing on yeah you just finished everything yeah it was just kind of the the slow season and then we both put it on the back burner because episodes had like we have an EP coming out so it has to happen and then I was in my head I was like fuck this episode is old and

we're not talking about anything and luckily you hit me up and was like do you want to run that back yeah it was a straight up fluff piece yeah I was just thinking about it and I was like well this is like almost a year ago and I would keep looking at episodes dropping I was like I don't know what might dropping and then I was like you know what I probably should we should probably see about doing it again just so that it's not coming out a year later but now it's fresh now we're fresh baby what I'm trying to do this year is make it way more fresh so this is coming out in like less than two weeks time or two weeks time sick so that's what I'm trying to do subscribe to the Patreon so I can fucking keep up with that because it's a pain in the fucking ass and this is sneaky because we get

to talk about stuff that we're not supposed to be talking about yet does it feel bad do you feel naughty. Yeah, I feel super naughty. You feel like, yeah, it's exciting. You have to, like, check afterwards. You can check afterwards, actually, if we say something else. No, I think I confirmed everything I am and I'm not able to talk about, so I've got everything cleared. And then there was stuff last time you couldn't talk about that we now can talk about. Correct. I'm a professional and I've written them all down. That's right. First off, did you get away Scott Free with Snowmageddon? I did, yes. So conveniently, shiprocked, happened to the entire week of Snowmageddon.

in Nashville. I did have to change my flight to one day earlier. So I flew out Friday night and the storm hit Saturday morning, I think. Yep. And then I think I got back Monday of the next week. So I missed all of it. Right. Yeah.

For those that don't know, there was a snowstorm in Nashville last week. And, I mean, it's probably two weeks ago now. It was like an ice storm, wasn't it? Ice, snow and then an ice storm. it took out our house but then like two days ago yesterday it was like 75

that's 23 for anyone in the UK was 75 global warming like literally fucking mental yeah I did the same thing as you but I thought I'd be clever because we're going to see my parents had to go back to the homeland

yeah in winter and I was like oh there's an ice storm coming let's just go while that storm's happening because then the weather here will be worse than the weather in the UK. Yeah. Making the UK seem like a tropical paradise. Got there, had three days there, got a text from our next to neighbor saying,

oh, there's a tree on top of your house. Dude. It's still there. You probably have gotten it the worst of anyone I've heard of. I mean, listen, Spring Hill, dude. That's really good. Where's the Lord's Palm, dude? He just keeps us right here.

All the storms miss us, dude. I'm not allowed. I'm not allowed. Dude, yeah, I got, I got. ice, I'd like drip my faucets and that was about it and then it was all melted by the time I got back. The NES, not Nintendo Entertainment System, Nashville Electric Service, I guess, came today because they basically have to, this is really boring, but we'll get to the music stuff in a minute. They basically have to, all the electrics are fucked. The tree went on all the

meters and everything. So you guys without power too? Yep. NES came today and after waiting two weeks and they were like, yeah, I can't do that until an electrician comes. Sorry, they did that last week. Electrician comes today and says, I can't do that until the brickwork's fixed. And then the brickwork guy says, I can't do that until the tree's gone. So right now, as we speak, there's a guy with a chainsaw on top of our house. No Wi-Fi.

These episodes are 300 gigabytes. So, like, after this, I have to stay here on this Wi-Fi and I upload the episode and just hope it fucking works. Bro. I'm so sorry. It sucks. You don't deserve that. Certainly not as a new transplant.

The worst part was like. We were in the UK, couldn't get a flight home, and the cats were in the house with a cat sitter that just came every day. So we had to fucking make sure they didn't get out of the hole in the ceiling, saw all that out. But we're good. I'm fucking pissed off all the time, stressed. We live in a crack den two doors down. We're just a mattress and heating. And that's it.

I'm so sorry. It fucking sucks. I'm sorry, dude. You don't deserve that. Certainly don't have a swimming pool. He told me that last time. Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that, is it?

Oh, no, the pool. It's been covered since October. The pool's covered. I'm going to look at apartments to buy next week. Okay. This area? Yeah, I'm going to stay here. Just the fucking immigration shit scares the fuck at me.

Yeah. And like, although I'm here, like, these are everything kosher. Right. For how long? Yeah. So I want to make sure, this is, again, very boring. I want to make sure, like, investment-wise, if they're like, oh, yeah, you're going, home, I'm like, okay, well, at least I can rent it out.

Yeah. Whereas if I was in the outskirts, yeah, it's going to be harder to rent that. Yeah, I totally get that. East Nashville. Yeah. Guys with moustaches that drink marcher, they're going to be right in there fucking,

double it, fucking landlord arc. I don't want to be no landlord arc. Music. Yeah. Music's cool, isn't it? I do, I do enjoy it. You do so much music. Doing a lot of it, that's for sure.

I got questions on that, but what I wanted to talk about, what we didn't talk about last time because it hadn't happened yet, was Euro tour with architects. Yeah. How was that? Dude, phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah.

They're the best people ever. And I've heard it from everyone, especially from you. Yeah, bro, I mean, day one, we were just locked in. It was short, it was like two and a half weeks. But, yeah, dude, it was awesome. Just huge gigs. I think that was like one of them was there. What was it?

I think it's Manchester. It's a new new venue there. Do you know what it's called? Was it the arena? Yeah, it's like an 18,000 cabroom. In the C arena or something like that. It's something really big, but it was a huge show and it was really cool to witness. Fucking crazy.

Yeah, they're the best guys. That's the first time we talked together. Yeah, first time we ever even met them. Like, never even been on the same show. Or we played one festival with them in America in like 24, I think. That's strange. Yeah. being that you're you know genre buddies yeah we're very very adjacent do you think it's anything to

do with uh do you think the reason it took this long to store together was anything to do with a little skidly do on the guitar with riff rift gay dude uh did you talk about riff oh yeah oh yeah no it was it was so it was super funny super lighthearted but well let's let's set the scene it's doomsday and it's is it low yeah yeah the the riff um what'd you call it riff um what'd you call it riff gate. Rift gate scandal. The riff gate scandal. Yeah, I mean, catching up everyone, I guess we had a riff that was pretty close to

the, uh, to an architect's riff, which there are a lot of those throughout music in general. Yeah. And yeah, it just ended up becoming a little bit more of a thing than I think that we thought it would. So obviously like night one, you know, we're playing. No, we didn't address it night one, but we were playing before them. It's, we've been playing it differently for a while.

Like some people had beef with the fact that it started with like, this low gain thing, which they have a song that does that too. There's a lot of bands that have songs that do the, you know, low pass guitar thing or whatever. But we've been playing it a different way for a long time anyways. But you certainly can't get away from the do-da-da-ca-da-go-to-ta-da thing, which is the same beat for both the riffs, different notes, different keys, whatever. But I remember playing at night one and just like, like, shun my eyes and be like,

oh, damn. So it was, yeah, I mean, it definitely felt weird. playing that song in front of their fans because some nights you can see people kind of go like it's so fucking funny yeah so wait sorry to cut back you change the intro

I mean we've been playing it differently for a while like when we play it we've been playing that song since 2019 it's a big song for us so we've been playing it but as as you know like when you keep playing the same songs over and over you try to get into them get into them get into them differently have different transitions

rearrange them or whatever so we just cut part that is just guitar only you know i finally was like you know i was writing while uh we were in there i talked to dan a lot dan you know he we both have like mobile rigs or whatever and i think this was probably like three days in i was just like you know what i'm just going to go do it like we had had a bunch of uh yeah so i literally walked in there and i got uh ali and dan and sam together and I was just like, sorry about low guys. We started laughing so hard and we just had this. We had such a great moment with it.

Obviously, they don't care at all. And they were just like, bro, this is metal music. We know exactly how this works. And, you know, it's the age old thing of time of, you know, riffs that sound similar and, you know, whether it was something happened on accident or on purpose or whatever. Like, I think we all, the bands just understand, even when things are close to each other,

I feel like everyone's just kind of like, yeah, I mean, we play metal. Like, there's only so many things. There's a finite amount of zeroes. Yeah, there's a finite amount of breakdown patterns, riffs or whatever. So we had a super good laugh about it. How'd you feel after that? Oh, it was great, dude. Was that playing on your mind for like, fucking,

was it eight years or something? Well, yeah. And obviously, like, we'd all, like, watch each other sets and stuff. And I, you know, I'd see them, like, side of the stage while we're playing low. I'd be like, man, I got to say something. It's metal, dude. Like, we do, we play it. We all play the same stuff.

that's fucking cool they are absolute sweethearts and i uh hope we get to do more with them because that was that was super fun even you just saying there like i knocked on the door and i went in i got dan sam alley that's like why they've been my best friends since yeah fucking 20 i've known sam since maybe 2005 yeah so like you just saying that i was like i wish i was there i wish you were too bro they're the fucking best they are the fucking best i like uh we're doing a bunch of festivals with the downbeat this summer and they're on loads of them. I'm just gonna fucking sick can I can you put my green room next to theirs please they're they were so kind like constantly in and out of like our green room and hanging and stuff

and it it's cool to meet intentional bands and you know that like like to hang out we're going to spend a amount of time together you might as well make it count you know what I mean so we like went on walks together and stuff it was awesome have you got favorite favorite architect's member your architect's member yeah if you got one that you hung out with more than the others. I feel like I hung out with Dan the most, actually. And we just talk shop a lot just because we're kind of the same guy as far as like we're so wise. Yeah, he's very wise, but you know, super like creative and, you know, we just kind of bounce thoughts off each other. But they're all so, so awesome. There's a weird thing with Dan. And I think we've talked, no, I think it's quite

dark. But like, I think I've talked about it. I think I've talked about it with him. And I've talked about it with his wife and I talked about it with our friends. But ever since Tom passed, like I don't know if it's because I don't see Tom anymore, obviously. But like Dan's more like Tom. And like he'll do something and I'm like, that's fucking Tom. Yeah. And it's weird.

It's like, I don't know if it's because I just haven't seen Tom in so long. And obviously they're fucking twins. They have, you know. Twin tuition. Yeah. But like. Copyright. There's that,

we write that phrase. We got Riftgate. We've got twin tuition. We're like 10 minutes in. Yeah. Twin tuition. Yeah. You architect's single.

But no, it's really like, it's like he absorbed Tom's wisdom. It's fucking crazy. Yeah. Did Dan ask you about maybe doing a little, a little bit of your songwriting? We didn't,

no, we didn't, uh, we did not talk about that. Really? Yeah. I'd love to, though.

I would love to write with him and just see what we get. Surely we would get something awesome. You could already do it, obviously. Yeah, surely we could get something awesome for sure. Because I know they work with a bunch of people now. They've just fucking... Yeah. That would be cool.

Yeah, it would be awesome. I was wondering if maybe that had come up. Speaking of songwriting. While we're on Riftgate. That's hilarious. Has it ever happened again? Has it happened since? With anything else?

Not me doing anything that's close to other people. I feel like other people have done stuff really close to what I've done. Oh, no. Yeah, but I mean, again, I just got to pass down the grace because it's metal, dude. It's the fucking just gets filtered down. Yeah, dude, we're in a tough spot in heavy music for sure. It's definitely all blended up together more than ever, just the same everything, same structures, same, even sounds the same. You know what I mean?

Like, we're just in a really interesting place, I think. Are you doing anything differently? to try and sort of make the pot slightly different? I mean, for me personally and like my band, I would say that I am trying to like find inspiration in like older stuff as opposed to like newer stuff. Like I don't I don't play the keep up game anymore. I think for a while I did where it's just like,

oh no, this is new and this is hot and this is what's working. Like I think to an extent like every band does a form of that, think for me, I have never been more team blaze my own trail, whether it's popular or not right now. Because when you look at the bands that are doing well, those are bands that are blazing their own trail. But there's just the wolf pack behind them that makes it so hard because everyone just climbs on that sound, whether it's the bad omens thing or the sleep token thing or whatever. Like there's just a huge amount of bands that just climb the backs of that. And that's the stuff that gets tough.

The problem is, though, that you helped create that. Yeah. That's the problem. Yeah. Because, like, obviously, you got the architects to wage war pipeline. Right. And then that sort of shaped modern metal core. Right.

And now you're sat here, like, I'm blazing my own trail. I'm like, where the fuck are you going to go? Yeah. You start. My trail is octane core, according to the internet. How did you feel about that term? I mean, it's fine with me. Like, you know, we've discussed this a little bit.

But, yeah, I mean, I think Octane has been a great thing for heavy music in general. I know now it gets a lot of flack just because kids that like their bands this certain way. And then they do a song that, you know, plays nice on Octane, which Octane's kind of like the bridge between Active Rock and then, like, the scene. You know what I mean? Like, they will play screaming and stuff like that. Explain to me like I'm from the UK because I fucking am. Yeah.

Active Rock. being what? Active rock, like, historically is like your Sether, shined down, stained. Yeah. Breaking Benjamin, you know, I mean, radio rock, dad rock. So when someone says active rock radio, what do they mean? I mean, that's just the stations that we have and, like, the broadcasting, like, FM stations of rock, which, you know, played those kinds of bands historically, like, those bands

just kind of are always playing and they're honestly still playing those songs. thankfully that's changing now because it's you know the hand is forced because new rock sounds different you know what I mean obviously so we got active rock you got octane in the middle between the scene and active rock yep liquid metal liquid metal is that octane as well well I think I think liquid metal is just straight up like metal oh I just got serious in my car oh really dude is awesome flick through it today yeah I mean liquid metal I think is just straight up metal but it's radio for that. And because it's satellite,

it's not, like those numbers count differently than FM transmission stuff. So wait, is octane FM? No, it's satellite. Okay, that's satellite as well.

Okay, got it. But, I mean, the subscriber base is huge. It's like millions of people, which if you think about, I mean,

you just talked about getting satellite in your car. It's like, when's the last time you put on FM radio? You know what I mean? Like it is definitely... By accident. Yeah,

it's definitely like, you know, something that is, just like, probably fighting for its place in like the common world just because streaming and you know YouTube and all of these different versions of, you know, music consumption like radio has probably fallen a lot farther than it used to in, you know, like early 2000s or whatever when a band that got a number one was a massive band. Whereas like now a band can get a number one and not draw

300 kids. You know what I mean? It's just an entirely different world. Could be tick-tog. West Coast. This one is for you. Aftershockfest. is back featuring my chemical romance, Limp Biscuit, Pierce de Vail and my favorite band, Tall, headlining, 26. This year they've got five stages, an expanded lineup and a larger footprint at the scenic Discovery Park. Come and see the very best in rock and metal plus a heavy dose of hip-hop with suicide boys and Wu-Tang. Just imagine the sort of collabs that might happen. I'm not saying they're going to happen, but I am a sucker for a hip-hop metal collab. It is going to be an awesome time from October 1st to the 4th.

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where I'm going to keep telling you this stuff back to the show. Okay, so still while I'm on the Octane D. Because I'm sure I was listening to Octane this morning when I was flicking through it. Yeah. And it had like orbit culture on it. Yeah.

Which is super fucking heavy. Yeah. So now I'm like, I don't understand the label. Yeah. I mean, it's branded as like as four heavy music. But there has just become a very formulaic pattern. and that you will hear on most of the songs on Octane, which you made,

which I have most certainly helped usher in for sure. But I mean, when I was doing it, I was just blending the things that I like, which are heavy music, big riffs, big choruses, you know,

breakdowns. Like that, that's just the things that I like. It's not a, it's not like a, you know, cheat sheet where I'm like, okay,

we got to put this here. Yeah, that's just, breakdown verse. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the octane stuff, like, started all the way back into, like, what I would say is, like, early, like, 2000s metal core, you know what I mean? When you had the, like, Azalee dying, Kill Switch, Engage, whatever,

where it was like heavy riffs, heavy verses, these big old choruses or whatever, and then it's just kind of, like, slightly become more accepted and then maybe kind of, like, colored in the lines a little bit more with, like, the verses and stuff. So to me, it's nothing new. It's just in, like, a hyper version right now because everyone's got the keys to the city with, you know, oh, you've got to have the trap production and the low verses and the cling guitar and the, you know what I mean?

Here's a thought about it, though, which I did have when I was listening to it today. The production, the octane core production. I got two thoughts of it. One side thought here is like one of the things that I see people moaning about the most about modern metal core and then they'll compare is the overproduction, the drum samples and all this stuff. And then they'll compare it to like Golden Days metalcore. like Azalee Dying and Kill Switch.

Right. You think Azalee Dying and Kill Switch isn't sampled. Like, it's so fucking sampled. The first two, it's just the samples didn't sound as good. Yeah. That was my little side thought. And then the other thought was, do you think the reason it does so well on radio

is because the highly processed sounds better when it's compressed into radio? Because a Metallica song came. on octane after a couple of I can't I think seven dust was on and I was like damn this makes it's fucking great yeah and then Metallica came on a metallic

song I love Lepp and Messiah came on yeah and I was like this sounds like shit and I don't know if it was like getting compressed by the fucking airwaves or whatever yeah I mean there's definitely some kind of a quality thing with the satellite stuff yeah I mean I think

there's a lot I mean overproduced I think is like one of the lazyest, dumbest comments that you complain that you can make on something. It's like, you did too good of a job. You know what I mean? Like it's a preference thing. You know what I mean? It's not, no way you did a bad job. You just don't like as much like you would rather. And to be fair, a lot of the earlier like metalcore stuff like it took forever for like programming and perk loops and stuff like that to find their way into, you know, heavy music. But when it did, it just became this whole new like toy box of things that you could do, right? Yeah. You know,

pads and, you know, uh, perc loops. Wait, what's a perc loop? Percussion loop. Like, yeah. Fucking lingo. No, you're good. That's, that's my bad. Um, oh, I like it.

Teach me. Yeah. Overproduced like, I get guilty, I guess. Like, that's a comment that I've, I've gotten before. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think it's just the way music is rolling. Like, it's more. It's, everything's like, hyper is like the best way that I can consume. It's like everything at 100 at all time.

It's like how music feels right now As opposed to like back in the day Maybe it was a little bit more dynamic and moments You know what I mean? I saw it firsthand with my drum plug in recently Which I gotta get my hands on that I got you give me a cradle email You must have a cradle email

Oh yeah yeah The God particle all that stuff It goes out through that It's not contact it will just load in maybe That's beautiful right in thanks I want that snare dude I need that snare which one though This is what I was going to say

because I got two on there. Oh, really? And because I insisted. We recorded four and they were like, hey, yours is going to be a one kit wonder now. So there's only going to be one snare. And I was like, no, give me two snares. And then we're like, you don't play two snails. Just give me two snares.

So they gave me two. The main is my bell brass and it's like cranked. Yeah. And then the side snare is an aluminum, an aluminum snare. And that one is like octane style. Okay. Is that like me saying? I said the O word.

Am I saying the O word right now? He said the O word. I'm sorry. So that one is like big, beefy, doomsday, Paramour Riot, like. Makes its own space in the mix vibes. Yeah. And then the bell brass is like a big, it's like a crack of like a 2000s throwback metal core snare. Yeah.

And I put that as the main thinking everyone's going to use that one because everyone complains about the architect's snares. And everyone's always like, Jordan Fish. brewing this and someone else mixed it so what you're fucking talking about you don't know what you talking about and but everyone uses that one everyone uses the one they say they hey they hate that kind of snare drum but every single play through that i see where everyone loading it up on a kit it's the beefy one let's go dude just say just say you like the oh snare just say you like a cool snare yeah i'm so check it out all the videos i've seen sound awesome and got you i've got three there's 300 mini grooves in there okay if you yeah i saw you

the um what's the one just ridiculous groove it opens the song yeah yeah i do midying that out i mean i don't know how they did it if they if they played it you played it and then they converted it to me yeah well i was at e kit yeah so i played it and then i put it in fucking yeah that's insane bro you think anyone's gonna throw that in their song and hope i know so it's like time for a drum fill time for a 16 bar drum fill so every time i've sent it it's funny have you heard that Do you like that band Carnival? I'm not very familiar. I just know that they're crazy musicians.

They came back and they got like a new record, first record in fucking like 15 years or something. It's amazing. But Steve's been on the podcast. Loves guillotine specifically. Half of guillotine is in a fill. And I haven't spoke to him yet. But there's a fill in on the record and it's like half of guillotine. I'm like, I'm going to hit him up and be like, oh, you had it.

Did you fucking nick? No way. It's like just hard. do do do do and then that's it I was like I hope that's in there but did you get there that's what I want with the plug in everyone like because there's been such a broad

amount of people like obviously you write for fucking everyone I would love you to have it and I'd love you to slam one of my middies in there yeah I won't take any percentage just drums I can't but like speed asked for it iron wish asked for it like the whole range of metal

and the only thing that I've said to everyone is like oh can I get it free I'm like, yeah, but you have to do me a favor. Just piss your drummer off. Put one in. Hell yeah. I'll find the hardest one. There's a lot.

Steve would love that. There's a lot of, right? There's a cool break. There's a breakdown in there, which I think I called it Briss Kerner. It's just like a Chris Turner. Oceans Lake Alaska style breakdown. And I'm like, while I'm playing it, like I played it, real talk. I played it like 30 BPM slower than it is in the pack.

Unbelievable, dude. The power of MIDI. Yeah. It's just like, this should sound great. 150. I'm going to buy it a 120. It's like that. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm wait to hit it. It's got a late snare in there as well. A little flam on the kick drum. Oh, come on, dude. Yeah, that ain't a fucking breakdown. Yeah, I'll throw it in there. That'll sound exactly like

our band. You have that shit anyway, though. We don't have anything that crazy. Which brings us to the EP. You have a crazy breakdown. You haven't sent me the EP, by the way. You only sent me one song. That's right. So I can only talk about one song, and then you can tell me about the rest of the EP. All right, that's fair. It calls me by name. Yes, sir. E.P. Yes, sir.

Five tracks. Five full tracks or four tracks in an intro? Five, what I think are pretty full tracks. Nice. Yeah. You mentioned earlier trying to get away from the norm, blazing your own trail. Have you done that? I think so.

Yeah, this has kind of been, you know, I've been working on music for a really long time. Since after our last record, I feel like I just kind of stay busy. and then I got like a mobile recording rig that I take on the road now, and that has like upped my game by a million percent because every day to do something productive, I just set up and make something. So that kind of just makes a lot more. And then it's fun to do it on the road because you're, you know,

seeing what works live, especially from like new records. You know what I mean? Like you play the stuff lies like, man, this feels great or man, this feels like great in the studio, but didn't work or whatever. So yeah, I mean, specifically, the song, I guess where, you said this comes out March 6th.

So the song that will be out in a couple weeks or is out now, Song of the Swamp, is like the first kind of look at something that we put down and we're like, I feel like this has to come out immediately. And, you know, we've always... No chorus. No singing. Well, there is a chorus, but it's a heavy chorus. Yeah. I think it's fun to just play both sides of the coin.

You know what I mean? Like stigma had a lot of. of radio success and we got a lot of like really awesome tours off that with bands you know that are on the radio and i think an important part of our band is that we do both you know what i mean like we have we have the side that you know is melodic and i guess you could say plays well at radio and then we also have this side that is super heavy you know what i mean and we're we were playing all of those heavy songs even on the radio tours just because like we're not going to like fully catered songless to a group like we just do both things you know and so i think we just tried to push the heavy envelope

as cliche as it sounds for every band ever to say about their new stuff like we really tried to push the heavy envelope as far as we could um and also like influence wise like not necessarily be influenced by anything like that's around right now but more so like earlier metal like you know pantera like black album stuff like that's the stuff that i'm like yeah i'm like way more into that now and like trying to flip that until like 2026 now. Yeah, the breakdown at the end there in Pantera. Oh yeah. I knew it.

Yeah. I was like, yeah, all the, all the rift stuff. And like just branding wise, you haven't seen the video yet. The whole thing is based around,

um, like Florida where we're from basically. And we've toyed with it for multiple records now. We've done, uh, on manic we had a song called death roll. And on the last record we had a song called In My Blood. And both of those were like owed to Florida songs.

Yeah. And so we kind of just decided to like fully lean in. And, uh, you know, like all of the branding is around, you know, like, basically just where we're from and who we are. So it's gators and swamp stuff. And like the video, we actually went to our hometown of Ocala and like shot the thing practically, uh, none of like the greens, green stuff. Like it's us in an actual swamp like built a deck.

pushed it all the way out into the middle of a swamp, which is what we're performing on in the video. Holy shit. And in order to get out there, I had to put on waiters and wade into like, deep water. And then get on and then take the waiters off. How did the gear get over there?

You put the gear on first and then push it. Yeah, well, we had some help. But the, yeah, I mean, there's the guys there on set or whatever. But we started pushing it and the mud was so, like, thick that we couldn't. get a drum kit on there, you know, a bunch of other guys on there. So I was just like, not really thinking. I was like, oh, I'll just get off and get out, get on it when it's out

or whatever, not thinking that we didn't have a boat or anything. So we didn't have an airboat. You need a fucking airboat in those videos. One of the dudes that was building the boat was like, you know, you just put on my waiters. And I was like, all right. It was cool, man. We, uh, we shot all of it in Florida, in the swamp, real deal. Um, we like went and took a bunch of pictures like with gators at uh um his name's chanler uh he's like a wildlife guy like big on youtube uh and he let us come over to his spot and like take a bunch of pictures and show us all of this like you know venomous snakes or whatever the cover of the EP is a picture that i say what we had taken we took but it's like it's not some you know stock image somewhere or

whatever. Yeah. No, this is like, it's a legit picture of the back of a gator. Yeah, the cover's just that.

Wow, that's real. Like super detailed and... God, it's lucky you're from a place with like cool shit. Yeah. Dude,

Florida... I wonder what I do. I'm gonna do a fucking concept album about cups of tea. Yeah. You could fucking, me and the royal family. That's not cool.

Yeah. That's fucking... You ever think about? Because I saw you, last time I saw you play was Sonic Temple. Last year. Hmm. and you had the pyro.

Yeah, we like to do that. That was fucking sick. You're going to get a big gator on stage. Like the inflatable thing? I feel like the inflatable thing's already coming on. Is that gone? I mean, it's awesome. But it's the, okay, here we are.

We're back to the trend thing. You're fucking, by the time it's cool. And now you're out of it. Well, I'm just saying by the time it's cool, it's tired. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying anyone doing it is tired right now. I'm just saying, you know, by the time we would do it and go on tour. it's like, well, the inflatable thing has been being done for a while.

Obviously, like Slaughter's Bravale has a massive gator or massive bear on stage. Massive bear on stage. And it looks insane. Yeah. I don't know how we're going to top that. So we're definitely cooking for our. Think about doing something different. Yeah.

Well, we just like, I think a big thing that we wanted to do with this new, like, I'm going to call an era of wage wars. Like we wanted to create a world basically. Like, this is. wage war world and this is what exists in it, whether that be visually, sonically, whatever. Yeah, create a world. Literally. Called Florida.

Yeah, legitimately. And, I mean, what's more metal than swamps, dude? Swamps are fucking cool. Yeah, it's super cool. And I was like, after looking around, I was like, I've never seen a band, like, latch on to this aesthetic or, you know, whatever you want to call it. Let me throw one in.

Get some airboats on stage. Bro, we have already talked about it. No way. Yeah. This is probably, I think, maybe the fourth episode i've talked about airboats because i'm like low-key obsessed with them have you been on one never even seen one in real life oh bro we got to do a downbeat episode on an airboat in the everglades i've only ever seen from like teenage mutant ninja turtles when i was a kid yeah and like i can't remember that where it first started i remembered they existed when honeycutt was on here when kuba kama on here the first time

he was talking about some being afraid of water or something we got onto it yeah i need an air boat. That was a fucking good impression by the way. And I was like, what's an airboat? And then explained it. And I was like, I remember. Dude, no water, no problem. You can just scoot that thing anywhere you want to go. Airboats on stage. What about, um, snake skin, shit?

Yeah, dude. We're in. You're in. You're already thinking about it. Don't worry, bro. We got it. Snake skin kit. That's so sick. Yeah. You know what's thinking about the other day? How sick the Vinny Pool signature scenario is. The one with the fucking snake, uh, the scales on it. So shit.

Yeah, bro. But yeah, it's all kind of, I would call it like a, somewhat of like an identity piece for wage war, which is cool to have. I'm calling it like record five and a half, obviously because it's an EP and not in the full length. But we're really excited about it. It's five songs that I feel like are very, like,

true to where the band is right now. And I think they're all pretty different flavors. I think it leans heavy. year, I would probably say. I would say it's probably the heaviest thing we put out as like a body of work, but still has like, you know, the things that you would come to expect from the band. But yeah, I think we're all really, really excited about it. Did you make a conscious decision to make it an EP? Or were you just writing songs and? Yeah, no, I actually didn't. Just working towards a full length. And I worked a lot last year just in like secret or whatever.

just back and forth to L.A. or here or whatever. And probably since last April. And we have like a really good amount of songs, even now. But as we just were looking at timelines and release and like when do we want to get this out, you know, obviously no time better than the present for anything. And, you know, as music develops and things develop, like, there's nothing worse than having a really good idea and seeing someone do it right before you did. Or, you know, like I'm sitting on this song concept or song title for a long time.

And then that song comes out. And some big band just put it out of song with that song title. You know, like that kind of stuff happens all the time. But I think for me, like, I just started looking at the songs that we had. And I was like, I would love to get these out as soon as possible. We have so many good ideas around them. These feel cohesive. And so we just kind of started dreaming up this EP probably like late last year.

And we're just have been, you know, blown through walls, trying to make it happen. and we now have made it happen. So, yeah, it just kind of is a, it's a collection of songs that we have that just all felt good together and felt like a good snapshot. And we just wanted to get new material out, you know what I mean? Do you have more than these five songs then?

Oh, yeah. I have the most I have ever had in my entire. So this isn't going to slow you down? I'm not slowed down, no. No, it's just, it's here for now. Before we talk about your songwriting career, because it's fucking crazy how many songs you've written. Tell me about the mobile rig.

I love the good tech rig. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty simple. I have a Pelican 1510, which is like the, you know, carry-on size. The very standard carry-on size, yep. I've cut all the foam out. I have the IK Multimedia, I loudspeakers, which I'm sure you've seen. Yeah, yeah.

I have an Apollo solo. Mm, nice. I have an SM7B with a cloudlifter. I have... You should have got a DB, bro. You don't need that cloud lifter. Oh, is that what that is on this? Yeah. It's cloud lifting inside.

Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Now, I know it's the same mic, but... Wow. Put the gain in. Anyway, sorry.

Okay, no. Good to know. Short plug. They did pay me, and now they don't pay me anymore. So get... Pay this man. He just sold me. No, it's still great.

It's still great. It's fucking awesome. I have a pair of D-Berry. T770s, the headphones. Yeah. For good reference. And then I've got some Mogami cables so that in case I track anything final, it's the cleanest signal I can do.

I got all the power for all that stuff, extension cables. And then, yeah, just grab a guitar from the boat if I want to do it. Straight into the MacBook? Straight into the MacBook. Yeah. Logic. Logic. ProX, yep.

What are you using for drums? I have like a Frankenstein set up right now. I've got a bunch of stuff around it. I think I have Stephen Slate symbols. I've been using a snare that I got from Stevens, when he recorded drums his pastime, I pulled it, we got, he got it's a D.W. He just got that sounds incredible.

So I've been using that. My kick is like a blend. I think I've been using one of Buster Oldham's kicks. And then Tom's are from the Gojira kit, the Mixwave one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this sounds busy.

Let me just hook you up. If you got the one-stop, I've been through a lot of one-stop shops and I just have never found the like, let me tell you. Because I like the go. Do you like route all your stuff out or do you just keep it in one? I don't ever mix anything. Sure. So the one kid wonder is just like, it's in there mixed. Sounds fucking awesome.

Yeah. You can. I'm familiar with that one. I have a bunch of the other kids. So the new one, mine's the, the first one that you can actually route out the Wonkit Wonder and you can change stuff

as far as I'm aware. Yeah, I feel like the way you had to do it earlier was like kind of squirrelly, if I remember correctly. Yeah, this one is the same as modern and massive or anything like that. And one of my bones that I had to pick with all drum libraries was the symbols. Yeah.

And I actually don't think it's, for the most part, I don't think it's the fault of the drummer or the engineer or even the mix I honestly think it's symbol choice. I pull up a plug in and I'm like, why have you got that as the crash? So like I just used my setup.

Yeah. Which is when I moved to Zildjian, I went, send me everything. And then let me just pick. And then I picked what I think for metal anyway is the best symbol. I think Stephen has your ride and it rocks. Fucking hope he does. We used it a lot on the record.

I think you might have used it when you played Sonic Semple. I think so. Yeah. Because I remember speaking to him afterwards. Yeah. You see your ride? And I was like,

no, but I heard you're right. I was fucking good. I was there. I just couldn't see it. That's my whole thing now whenever we go watch band, I'm like.

Yeah. It's fucking crazy. Like wage war, bad omens, fucking fallout boy. It's cool. Yeah, let's go. Andy Hurley bought four,

bought. Really? Paid for them. Loves it so much. I've got a percentage. off that. Let's go, dude. Let's fucking go, yeah. Oh, I love doing that. You got any signature stuff? I don't.

No, I really don't. Dear endorsers. Would you do one? I would love to, yeah. I switched to ESP guitars not too long ago, and we've had the conversation. We just haven't found the right timing or whatever, but I'm like a huge James Hetfield fan,

so I'm just doing anything that I can to replicate like 91 through 94 Hetfield, you know what I mean? When he was like of Wolf and Man guitar and the, you know, all that, all that cool stuff. All I play are his signatures. Really? Yeah, I play the snake bite,

which are just Headfield signatures. I remember the end of the last time we did this that these guys didn't see, I realized that you like Metallica as much as me. Love Metallica. The end of this, I've got a little Metallica fun bit. Okay. because this might as well.

Do you know the story? They already know the story. This was going to be a Metallica podcast. Really? The downbeat was going to be called and justice for Lars. And it was going to be me talking to other musicians about Metallica,

but based on the fact that I fucking love Lars Al Rigg. Yeah. The good and the bad. Like I just think he's the fucking man. Yeah. And then I can't remember. I think I've recorded one episode. And then we didn't talk about,

I was as much as I wanted to. And I was like, I guess this is just a music podcast. And that's what happened. But it was going to be. I feel like at first it was a lot of drummers, right? And then it has blossomed into just anyone that, you know, like. Still fighting the stigma. Yeah.

I'm fighting the drum podcast stigma. It's still really hard to do, especially with press agents. Yeah. Well, your logo is drumsticks. That's the fucking problem. But like Nike, that's not a shoe. Yeah. Is it?

What's that supposed to be? You don't see. a Nike logo. I feel like it makes sense for you though, because you're like a one in a million drummer. So why would it not be... Thanks, bro. Why would it not be...

If nothing else, you're a drummer, but you talk about... You have so much more knowledge other than just drums, so... I just love music. Yeah. Do you want to know something funny about that logo? Yeah.

I own the copyright for... To a pinagram? Made of drumsticks. Wow. I own that copyright. Because someone, shortly after I did the podcast... someone started another podcast I'm not going to say it was because we're boys now and it had a drumstick

pentagram on it and I was like no no no no I started this so like I spent seven grand copywriting it yeah and when I copyrighted it just because you know it's iconic and but like now secretly I'm like all I want is like some drum company one of the big ones that don't sponsor me ideally come out with like a range of metal symbols or whatever and they've got a pentagram drumstick on them and they got to come to you yeah and then i'll wait until it's all done and they're all sold and i'll go hi yeah yeah do you want him uh you just walk in with the home alone just the yeah the fingers together cease and desist or give me money yeah it's not why i did it but anyway you write music for everyone

off the top of my head slash my notes wage war you write the music for wage war ADTR F-I R T-G-I

Fridays Hardy Juryroll Am I missing anyone Who else am I missing I've had some songs With Memphis Mayfire We Came as Romans

Pop Evil I mean it's a lot It's a lot Yeah It's a lot Like Do you just write at all times and then think this will be good for this artist and pitch it or do you get called

to make the call to make the song and then write for that artist how does it work yeah i mean it's kind of always different like i i i have different roles in different scenarios you know what i mean i kind of started like my start in songwriting at least outside songwriting was just like i was the rift guy. You know what I mean? Like for a day to remember was, uh, the first like outside band that I worked with. And this was even predating like wage war. Um, we were just from the same hometown. And I got a call from Jeremy one day and they were working on common courtesy. Um, you're like, hey, like we've been sitting on this on forever. Like, um, and we were a local band at the time. And I think he'd something, something on the effects of like they had heard our band and like,

these wrists are sick. Would you want to come like take a stab at this or whatever? I was like, sure so you know i drove down it's cool it's awesome awesome awesome that's like a story you don't hear anymore yeah dude they i have i have nothing but incredible things to say about about the day remember guys they really i'd have them to thank a lot uh specifically jeremy for um for where my life is today in the songwriting aspect but yeah so i drove down there and um we ended up working on a song that was called sometimes you're the hammer sometimes you the nail, which was on that record. And that was kind of the start of it. And then fast forward, I worked on bad vibrations as well, somewhere in there in 2018. That was probably 20,

I don't know what year that record was. I think it was before Wage War was anything, though. And then I think my understanding of this story is correct. But we were on Warped tour on 2018, and I think Ronnie had heard the Stitch riff and was like, I think he had talked to his management, who was our management at the time? He was like, well, who wrote that riff? I love that. And he said, oh, it's actually one of our clients.

Like, that's Cody from Wage War. And that's how I got connected with him. And then we did Popular Monster, which my section is just the breakdown of that kind of, that song. And so that's kind of how, like, I started is just kind of like the riff guy. And then as things have progressed, like, you know, I'm still just like the riff.

guy, you know, for a lot of the falling stuff. And then, you know, a data member has kind of like, I do do a lot of riff stuff there, but have also been able to like be a songwriter in there with like, you know, melodies and lyrics and stuff. For like Memphis Mayfire, for example, like Kellyn is an absolute musical genius, produces, you know, writes all the music, incredible. And Matt, who is also an incredibly talented writer and singer, him and I just tackle vocals together. So I have nothing to do with the musical side of that. That's just the complete flip of the coin for me. How do these guitarists feel about, like?

We're going to call in the riff guy for this one. It's weird. Like, for me, I guess I don't even, I don't, I don't, I'm not in the circles. I think music is just so different these days. Like, yeah. I can't think of the last, like, band. It certainly isn't our band. We've, like, never gotten a room and, like, jammed.

You know what I mean? Like, everything is always done on a computer. Everything's always demoed out. And I think it's just easier that way. And I think songs are, have changed like you know sometimes it is good to like go jam something in a room or whatever again i really can't speak to that because everything i've ever done is on a computer yeah but yeah i mean i think it's kind of just like when you start thinking about guitar parts as like part of the melody in the song

now like the main riff to me is just as important as uh as the chorus and that's what i hope people always take away from wage war songs is that yeah like the song is sick but the riff like you You know what I mean? Like when it comes back, it's written to be something that you remember. And so that makes it so it's not just like, all right, cool. Like here in Nashville, they got session guys, right? That'll just roll in. Here's a song.

They listen to it twice. Play something over it and get out of there. Like, I feel like rock is so much more concentrated. So it sometimes does take more than that. And I would also die on the hill. And I'm not putting myself above anyone else because I think this is, I think writing music, you know, I do think it's a gift, but I do think it's something that can be learned

and can be practiced. And just because you're an incredible musician doesn't mean you're a songwriter. And if you don't exercise that muscle, then you're not going to have the same capabilities as someone who does that. And so I think that's the other side of that point, the other side of that is that

just because you're shred at guitar doesn't mean that you're going to write the part that, or Jeremy calls it the crowd go woo riff. You know what I mean? The riff that as soon as it starts, you know, I mean, architects, obviously has a million of them, but can just stand alone,

you know what I mean? I guess also it's getting another ear on something that you've probably been bashing your head against the wall with, like where the fuck does this song go? Yeah. Being able to bring it to someone else and go, where do you think this song goes? Because we like what you normally do.

And then you go, oh, it goes like this. And they go, oh, of course it does. That's why I'm always, I'm big on people getting, people using a producer. Every time a band is like either self-produced or there are exceptions,

but like self-produced or yes man producer. Yeah. I really feel like it's just, why ain't you just get one other person to go, yes, yes, no, that bit sucks. Yeah. I love them to death, favorite band of all time. Fucking Metallica, please. Just go in with someone. Yeah.

I love all Metallica. I was talking about this the other day, like load and reload, I'm in. I'm still in on load and reload. Okay. I have, I have some, I have some picks from those, but. But like, imagine they just went to fucking will party. That would be crazy, dude. I think about it all the time.

Yeah, that would go absolutely insane. Because he has exactly the right level of, like, slightly autistic to look James Hetfield and Lars and Lazzell Rick in the eye and go. And say no. that riff sucks. And then they'd be like, Bob Rock would never have done this. Honestly, I was flipping

through 72 seasons not that long ago. I was just was like, I mean, it's a great record. It's the best in a while. It's great. I mean, I like Death Magnetic too. Like, I really, I mean, HardWired was great.

Like, they're all great records. It's crazy that people don't, I mean, it's like, we do it too, to our favorite bands, but it's like, it's crazy that people don't look at them as like, look at those records as like adorned as the old stuff because in some cases they are maybe some of the better Metallica songs. The riffs are still cool. I don't know if it's like a, I don't, I think it's just

a time capsule thing and it's the same thing with, you know, people do it to us all the time where it's just like, well, your first record was your best record. And I was like, I can guarantee you our first record was not our best record. You just liked the way that this song made you feel and that's what I'm doing. When, yeah, when you were 16 and, you know, we're, you know, you know, make it out for the first time in a car or something. I don't know. It's a wageable. To wage a way.

Like it. You sit in phry. Show me out. But I do feel like that's kind of how people, when people say, oh, their old stuff is better or something, I feel like it's more of a feeling than the thing. But now are you making me feel bad about them. No, don't feel bad. I do it.

No, because I do it to. I do it to my favorite bands, too. And for no good reason. It's, it's just like, it's like a human psyche thing to me. It's interesting. It's interesting, but like now I've pissed myself off because it annoys me You know why it annoys me actually?

I reckon out of the people that say your first album was the best I think 50% of those 50% of those people Actually believe that for nostalgia reasons like you say Yeah And then you've got another 50% of people And this is where my hatred is directed And those 50% of people Just want you and other people to know

that they knew the band at that time. Yeah. Because this, gatekeeping. There's so many people that are like, and it only since Stray broke up, like Stray, we tried infinite times

to put their old shit in the set because it's fun. Every time, bombed. Dude. No one cared. Yes, dude. Look at the fucking streaming figures. I've got the fucking figures.

Yes. Here, 500 people listened to that song last month. And everyone, and like, we would try and play them live. doesn't work. It's like, okay, we'll only play from when I joined onwards, which obviously I'm happy

with that. But like, because, not because of me, but that's when people started to care about fucking straight because we took a lot of fucking good tours. Yeah. And then we split up. And I just saw so many people that just would never have come to a stray show in their life. Like, yeah, they peaked at this album.

And it's like, I can tell you, statistically, you didn't listen to that album in the last fucking 10 years. Yeah. Just shut up. It's the vocal minority, dude. we do the same thing on our last tour. We're like, oh, dude, this is going to be the bangor block. We played, like, three or four songs from Deadweight,

which I feel like is our adorned, like, Reddit Metal Cora adorned album or whatever. We played, we, like, start the set on the new stuff, and then we, like, kind of dip down to this part. We, like, played the intro first two songs. Like, it was perfect. That was the whole time. Like, people just, like, silence. You know what I mean?

Like, there's not even, like, one guy going nuts. If one guy was going nuts for fucking negative and violent or whatever, I'd be like, oh, sick. That was like one of the guy that leaves the comments. No, the guy that left the comments wasn't at the fucking show. No. Oh, so annoying. He's got Cheeto dust on his fingers at home.

He's typing. Yeah. Top commenter. Top commenter. He said the craziest thing possible. Don't get me started. I can't. I fucking.

I know. I can't catch a fucking break in that place. It's funny, though, because I think now. every time I'm brought up there's just like there's two two parties yeah people to fuck with me and always fuck with me people that

don't never fucked with me but now I have a reason to not fuck with me yeah and it's just funny to see like the reaches people make yeah it's exhausting dude it's kind of sick though like I like read it and I'm like this is awesome like what are you doing with your day

I'm just like sat on my fucking bed what am I going to do today? I don't know and I'm like vaping and drinking a monster and this guy's so pissed off about me that's kind of fucking sick. Yeah, you take it up space in their head.

I think about it though. I think that's why I deleted Twitter because my part of my brain just wants to fuel the fire with shit and just be like... Twitter is so cancerous dude it's like such an awful platform and yeah, I don't

don't, I can't even remember the last time that I went on Twitter. I deleted it for the sake of my bandmates when Stray was still a thing because I wanted to tweet crazy shit that I didn't necessarily believe in, but people were like, whatever, saying shit. It's like satire kind of thing. Yeah. And I was like, I know satire doesn't exist on the internet, but I was like, I could say some fucking insane shit right now.

And it would go crazy. And then I was like, close to doing it. And I was like, I'm just going to delete this for the sake of everyone else. But now, I could be back. I'm going enough time. I did the maths. I don't make any money from Twitter. Yeah.

It just brings me psychological damage. Oh, yeah. So, like, if I fucking post a dumb story about my day on Instagram, nine times out of ten, someone goes and buys a T-shirt. Not why I'm doing it, but, like, you can see the funnel. Like, where did that sale come from? Oh, it came from Instagram at this time. I'm like, oh, that's cool.

That's worth being a fucking dumb dumb on Instagram for. Twitter, anytime you post a link or any of that shit, doesn't even fucking, they're like, no, no one gets to see that. You must post hatred. Yeah, dude. I can talk about this all day. I don't want to. Yeah.

The haters are real. We know they exist. Above it, baby. I can't help wanting to give them more ammo, though, just to see it go nuts. Dude, I think on our last record, I finally, like, shed, shed the hate cape. Really? Yeah.

I've been a chronic comment reader my entire life. I mean, as anyone does who, you know, when you're creating and you put something out there for people to consume, obviously it feels good when people like it, but it also hurts 10 times worse when people don't. And I think for a long time, I, like, put a lot of self-worth and that kind of things. I'd even see people, like, make personal comments, like, about me or, like, how I looked at certain points of my life or whatever, which is just insane. And I think I finally, on the last record, like, we put out the, like, really melodic song first, which was a choice for sure.

Yeah. And again, just for the sake of, like, shaking things up, because, you know, how many bands, it's like, all right, here's the first single. It's really heavy. And, you know what I mean? Like, there's formulas to all that stuff. So we were like, okay, cool. Like, let's, you know, let's put this out. Obviously, people, it was like, super down the middle. You know what I mean? Where it's like people that loved it and people were just like,

what is this crap? I can't believe this wage war. You know what I mean? And as if we have never put out a song like that in our lives. Like you know the other stuff exists. But I think, and then Magnetic went on to be like a,

you know, it went number one on the radio. It's like still the highest streaming song on that record. Like, you know, one of our fastest, like made history for the band. But at inception,

people were like so pissed. and like saying really awful things about how, you know, the best, the best complaint of all time, how generic it was and yada, yada, yada. But I finally was just like, I was so, I still am so proud of that song and record. And it did awesome things for us. But that was definitely the most like critical anyone has ever been, which is a good thing because I think if you're not getting talked about. And if you just put out a record, everyone goes, yeah, then you didn't do it right.

you know what I mean? Yeah. And so I think I finally just was able to detach my like worth from commenting. And so now like you can't really hurt me anymore in comment sections because I'm not going to put anything out that I don't think is great. And if you don't think it's great, that's fine. It's just not for you. There would be a cause for the argument, the comments like that if you were making the music

so it could go to number one or so it could be more. But like, I know you. You just love a fucking call. chorus. Your boy just loves a big old hook, dude. That's a big fucking sing song. Yeah, I love it, dude. Yeah, it's not, I don't think I have ever written a targeted song, you know what I mean? Except now you're trying to get away from things. So you're kind of anti-targeting. Yeah, I have anti-targets. Yeah, more than anything. It's just like, if it's cool, I will literally start a song and like, I'll vibe check it with the guys. And they're like,

if this sounds like any, any of these whatever references that I have, I'm like, I don't want to do it. I want to make the choice that is not that way. I had a conversation with someone recently about, like, press at festivals. And I think my solution, I think the same would apply to music critics and also music critic commenters. I couldn't really police this. But my idea for press was in order to do, in order to access the, press tent at a festival. Yeah.

There would be a cab, a 5150. I like where this is going. Noise gate, a tuner. And a tube screamer. A tube screamer and some cables on the floor. And you have to, and a guitar. And to get into press, to set up to do your press, you have to set all of that up and make it make a noise.

I like that. and then you're allowed in. And then you can comment on the music. How do we get that going? If someone talks shit about me and they're like an incredible musician or whatever, I'm like, fair enough. Yeah. Fair of fucking enough.

But like, if you don't know how to do what I do, not that I play the guitar, but I was trying to think about one of the most complex things that drama should still be able to do or whatever. Sure. If you don't know how to fucking turn on the fucking amp, of the inshot of Convience.

Convience your passion in a business and you buy records of the business with the form

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do your business is a Shopify, empiezo peri peri peri per cent

per cente record. Well, the next level is whether you're giving them a power supplier or whether they

need to put nine volts in the pedals. That's what separates the men from the boys. I'm okay with it just

being a very basic noise. I would even be okay with it's just set up a 5150 to make

noise because you would have Billy's blog trying to get into press and they're trying to ask you

like so the new album is a departure from the old stuff. This is in Germany. obviously yeah um and that 51 50's there and it's on fucking standby this motherfucker can't fucking why is it not working and then it's like yeah you're out yeah you are that you're not in

you're gone i like that yeah festival press can be super tough because sometimes you just get people that know absolutely nothing about you and like well then what are we doing here not not to be yeah not that i'm too good for anything but when they're like trying to figure out who your band is during the interview, you're like, you don't even really want to interview us. You just saw it. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm quite excited because this is the first year that the Downbeat's doing festivals. Yeah. And it's, I had one clause. I'm not going in the festival press bit. I'm not going there. I need my own little room that I can set up like this and I can do actual podcasts. But I'm going to get to see what the arrangement's like, which I'm quite excited about, because

if it's oh you really do just get handed whoever then okay I'm going to have a little bit of lenience for when people don't know who you are because it's kind of waste of everyone's time when you turn up they don't know who you fucking are but like if it is okay put down on the list who you're doing or if I have to advance who I want to do in advance then you know these people are just fucking blasting shot

and just being like I'll just take anyone I'll just sit down and I'll just sit down Who were you then? And then I will know. We've definitely been in a couple of those scenarios. Wimmer's changing the game, though. There's a whole big thing. Like that first Sonic Temple,

the first Wimmer I ever went to was the Sonic Temple you guys played. And I was like, this is fucking incredible. This is like... They're the best, dude. This is like someone went to Europe and went, this is great. Some things could be better. And then took it back to the States and then made those things better.

They are by far the most. well-run festival. What did we do? Last year we did Louder Than Life, which was incredible. I think that was the biggest rock festival on U.S. soil to date.

I think it was like 75,000 people, 75,000 or 85,000 people sold out, which is crazy. Yeah, that's like raining festival in the UK, which is the second biggest one. Dude, it was huge. Yeah, I mean, Rockville, which is always like the home play for us.

I can't believe louder than life was that many people, because being there and walking around, even in Gen Pop, didn't feel like a 75,000 people festival. Like, I was walking around easily. Yeah. Stage to stage.

It is pretty huge grounds, though. But compare it to, like, a Eurofest of that size, and it's like, fucking a nightmare to walk around. I can think of some off the top of my head. I'm not going to diss them. But, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Fair play.

I think the way you, could get round from stage to stage in the backstage thing was just like so easy yeah yeah they've definitely got to figure it out yeah we we love playing those festivals what else did you do last year you did you did you did you did rockville the year before we did rockville the year before we did was that a big one for you like we were main stage uh yeah we were that was our first main stage uh slot we played it like hometown kinder yeah and then the year before we closed our stage which was like a huge honor. We closed the third stage and that was our first time doing fire ever, which was sick. And then pretty much any time we do a Wimmer Festival, we just decide to do fire.

You end up losing money when you do the pyro? Depending on how much money you make, yes, but we have very, very surely washed guarantees on production for Wimmer Festivals for sure. Yeah. Just because, I mean, it's, you know, it's the opportunity. I mean, it's to make sense, right? Like, we don't want to lose money doing something. but we we are no strangers to spending the money for to make the slot count you know because and i mean here we go again i mean now everyone's doing fire so you know not that we were the first ones to do it but i think we were the first ones back on the bill to do it like fire is usually something that happens in the later or the night or whatever but when you start looking at festivals like that you know

your common concert goer that maybe doesn't know who wage war is happened to walk by and all the sudden and they see a flame shoot off, and then they're like, we got to watch this, you know what I mean? Like, it's an immediate attraction thing. But now it seems like everyone is doing fire later in the day,

which can be advantageous when you want to share with somebody that keeps costs down or whatever. But, yeah, I think it's a good way to keep to, like, get attention early in the day. And lights don't matter, right? Like getting a light package

for 4 p.m. in the day isn't going to do anything. No one's going to see it. So you might as well spend it. You might as well just spend it on the fire. Have people, started hating on fire yet? I haven't really delved into the comments. It's because it's so cool. It's always going to be cool. It's been cool since cavemen. We did the most fire we've ever done

at Warp Tour this past. We did Orlando and we did like eight. They're called G flames, which are just the ones that shoot like straight up. Yeah. And then we did, I forget what they're called. They're called like volcanoes or something. But it's one unit and it shoots like three out. And we did two of those. So it was, it was hot. I've only ever played with a form of production like that once. It was in New Delhi, India. Wow.

In 2010, my death metal band, who were split up. Some super rich guy from Delhi was like, hey, if I paid for everything and put a show on, would you reform to play a show in India? and we were all just like yeah, fuck yeah. That's the sickest offer of all time. We reformed. We went.

It was at the Institute of Technology in New Delhi. There was like 5,000 people there. We headlined. We didn't have enough songs to headline. So I had to play like a massive drum solo. We played two songs. One bus. It's on YouTube somewhere.

Really? One, I did one, we did one song twice. And then we played the whole of Be a Man by Mulan as from the Milan soundtrack as the intro. So that killed like eight minutes. So we managed to get it to an hour. But they had this like, janky fucking homemade Indian pyro.

It's like some dude with a hairspray and a zipper. No, it was fucking explosive. But it was like the craziest shit, like confetti cans and stuff. No, there was no guy. There was no like markings on the stage don't stand here. So there's like videos.

You can see videos of it on. the internet and there's like fucking confetti cannon going off behind someone's face like here it's kind of fucking sick but i've never played with pyro i'd love to play with pyro it is easily like the coolest i have ever felt in my entire life it is it is an unmatched it is an unmatched blast of serotonin to the dome it just feels like what all of your dreams are made of yeah it's it's one of those things especially when it comes down on like a drop with like you know a base drop and a breakdown or something, bro, or a one-liner. It is just...

I feel like it's still bucket list for me. That must be bucket. I thought I was running out of bucket list stuff, but playing on the stage with Pyro and South America, that's like the two... I guess that's the two playing ones I have left. Your time's coming, bro. I know that you are absolutely about to shoe in

with the biggest artist of all time. I hope so. No, your pyro dream's coming, for sure. Fucking active rock pyro. Craig coming. for me fucking comment section. I won't care because I'll be on a fucking pool flow. Active rock Craig sounds nuts, dude.

A lot of four on the floor. You better leave all those chops behind, dude. You know what's funny? We need kick and snare every time. I wonder what I would do. I don't think I'm getting asked to do anything. I think my time's gone. No.

I don't think I'm getting it. I would do massive, like anything. Yeah. Or I'm going to do something. crazy because I'm practicing a lot of the moment. I'm kind of getting really fucking good. I can't imagine what that means now. I've always thought you were good.

I might do like my dream, my actual dream, and this comes back to me like, I have an obsession with pissing people off. Like that's why I love stoking the flame whenever there's any shit. We are the opposite there, but. But like, I want my next project

for everyone to hate it. Wow. Like, that's what I want. I don't know why. Either that it's so far from what I normally do that are like, this fucking sucks. I got an idea. You should make it octane core. I mean, it's the office there and I'm going to get fucking shit loads of money.

I'll fucking do it. I can be bought or it has to be like unlistenable prog is what I'm talking about. Like I want either it to be so fucking normal and I'm getting so fucking rich from it that everyone's like, this sucks he sold out and i'll read the comments and go yeah it did or for it to be so prog that everyone's like this sucks i don't understand it like dream dear like yeah i want to be in a fucking unlistenable version of dreamtale just to piss people off i don't know what's wrong with me wow i don't know what it is i think i don't care yeah because i do this shit and this is just like i like doing this i like making t-shirts musically i live

to piss people off. I think that's cool. Is it? It's probably the antithesis of me, but I like that idea. Yeah, I mean, you're pissing people off, but by accident. Yeah. I think I'm just like, I have a lot more fun with heavy music now than I used to. Like, I feel like it used to be so serious.

And there's a time in place for that, and I'm not saying that we're writing like joke songs, but for instance, like, you texted me earlier when I sang you the song and you're like, this is so heavy. hilarious. Yeah. And like, to me, that was the goal, is to just listen to something so abrasive. It's like three minutes of just like what is going on. You know what I mean?

And to me, that's like, that's where I find joy in heavy music now is just like taking it to the next level and like having fun with it. You know what I mean? Have you got a billion streams yet across all of your things? I think so. How do you not know that? Can I see my phone again? Do you?

Is there an app for that? I see people sharing there, like, whatever it is. I have 4,227,000,938,600 streams. Holy shit. Across everything you've worked on. Yeah, that's not, that is clearly not just wage war. You're on a percentage for all of those. Fuck, yeah.

How big is this pool? It's not very big. It's like, salt water? No. Oh, I love fucking alligators. I should put them in the pool. I should put gators in there. I should.

Wow, that's a great idea. It's not very big. It's like 12 by 20. Did it come with a house? Yes, I want to say I did not want a pool. And I bought my, we need to. Four billion streams pool guy. We need to set the stage here that I am not a mansion owner with a pool.

I bought a house that had a pool at a time when the market was down. I like to propagate the lie that 4 billion streams. and you were like, I'm buying a mansion with a pool. Okay. You should have rolled with that, but you can tell them the truth. Yeah. Yeah, honestly, bro, having a pool sucks if you don't use the pool. And I don't really use the pool unless I'm having people over.

You've got to have a pool guy, I imagine. You got a pool guy? No, I do not have a pool guy. You do that yourself? I do it myself, yeah. How are you writing all these songs? How are you got time to fucking clean out the thing? Well, it's really not that hard. It's fall is when it sucks because the trees, like, well,

dump the leaves in it, but I close it up in the winter now. So, but if I'm home, it's when I'm not home, that's when it sucks. And I usually just get a friend to go and check it. But yeah, I mean, other than that, like once a week, get the water tested. And it's, you know, maybe, you know, 30 bucks a month to keep it clear. You got barbecue out there? Oh, yeah, I got Trigger. Smoking, smoking some pork butt, dude. Did you get a Trigger hookup? I did. Yeah, I heard they're hooking people up. I'm like, fucking Cody was on there. I've got a Traygar hookup. I said, give me the fucking hook up.

Yeah, I got to have you down for a little, uh, for a little barbecue pool. I would love that. And guess what, Trayor? I'll look directly at this camera and go, you can try the new Trigger, whatever it's called Power Grill. It's great. You know, look at this brisket. Oh, and there you go. You would definitely be the first guy that I've heard that with a British accent to do that.

Fucking mix it up. Usually it's like, you like barbecue? Y'all like bar. I can do that too. Y'all like barbecue. you. You can try baked beans on your Traeger grill. Have you seen the...

It's like an English video. It's like, he's good, but it's nothing like my mother's ham biscuits and fezzly wiggis with beans and mash or whatever. It's like all of the different, like, British food. All this shit that we say, no. Yeah. Listen, I like baked beans. I like baked beans too.

Not for breakfast, but I like them. Now you want to put them with a burger. We're talking. In the burger? No, to the side. Yeah, I'll take that as well. Or with like a brisket Sammy or something. I do.

I often, when we get barbecue, I'll get beans because I'll just miss that bean. What is your favorite Nashville food spot? I have this chat quite a lot. I had this chat yesterday with my barber. I think it's pretty overrated, Nashville. You're saying this place is, or you're saying the food in Nashville? The food in Nashville. Sorry, I love Nashville.

Food coffee barbers. Talk about us all the fucking time on the podcast there. Sick of it. Sick of me moaning. But like, I feel like the aesthetic is always a 10. And I go in and everyone's gassing this shit up like it's a 10. And I go in, I'm like, that was a 7 or an 8. Experience over food.

Yeah. So there's a few of those that we've been to where everyone's been like, you've got to try this place. And it's like, it's good. It's an 8. But I've had a 10. Don't fucking tell me on it. Specifically, bite a bit, sushi and Thai.

That's the best sushi that I found in Nashville. Okay. I hate sushi, so I would not be able to relate to that way. Right. You're going to give me some. what I like? Yeah. Have you got a barbecue spot in Nashville?

I do, but it's like chain. But like the two big ones are like Martins and Edleys, right? Yes. I'm Edleys over Martins. I'll say that. Okay, so we'd been to Edleys and it was great. Yeah, the one right down here. Yeah, we got it delivered and it sucked.

Yeah, I can see that. That's on me. Yeah. But it was great, but I was like also like, give me more. The options to have more. Have you done the hot chicken thing? No, I didn't do the chicken. You got to do the chicken.

You got to do the chicken. You got to do the chicken. Okay. Yeah, I mean, so there's pepper fire, princes, and hattie bees. I think those are like the big three. They're my own hattie bees. You have done hattie bees? Yeah, done hattie bees.

I love hatty bees. I like Hattie Brees. Have you done bad luck burger? Oh, yeah. That's like, I put bad luck burger. Maybe my favorite burger of all time. It's slamming, dude. It's crazy.

You know who the owner of that is, right? I don't. Andy, who used to sing for a plea for purging? I didn't know that. Yeah. I know Adam from Orthodox is running the grill at Bad Luck sometimes. Oh, really? Yeah.

I don't want to fucking dox him, but go to Bad Luck Burger and you're bump into fucking Adam from Orthodox. Yeah. Yeah, Andy from used to be a plea for purging is the main guy, I'm pretty sure. I think it's his thing. That's fucking awesome. It's so good. It's so good.

We had it like two nights ago, and even now I'm like, I could get it again. Yeah, it's really good. I like... What do you get from Bad Luck Burger before you think about this too much? Yeah. Well, I am, I'm getting better, but I eat like a toddler. I like things really plain. So I like meat and cheese on a burger, and that's it.

And I might get the sauce on the side for a little bit. Little guy or whatever it's called. That's the one without any shit on it. Yeah. See, they're even roasting me for getting it that way. Yeah, you're the little guy. Hey, little guy. Yeah, I thought about this last time I got it.

Last time we got a bad luck burger each and then tots each. Now, what I'm going to do next time because I'm so obsessed with a burger. I think I'm just going to do two burgers. There you go. protein maxing protein maxing yeah I like that mogging her with pure beef

there you go how's your brain rot knowledge uh you know what mogging is I don't do you want to know yeah I'm obsessed by the way at the moment I've seen it a lot I just don't think I know what it means okay so if are you going to pull up the actual definition of

mugging I have like I'm obsessed with the way JN Alpha speaks and like bringing it into my unc status speech. Yeah, that's definitely, that's definitely the part of you that likes to piss people off. Oh, yeah, 100%.

What's the definition of magging? Mogging is to look significantly more attractive, stylish, or physically dominant than those around you. So if you're like, someone takes a photo. Oh, yeah, it's kind of like, um, yeah.

It's like mewing. No, it's not. No, okay. It's different. My bad. My bad, unc. Okay. So, mogging is like,

If I was taking a photo of someone else in the gym and like we're parallel to each other. Yeah. And I like nudged myself in front. So I look bigger and I flex and that other person didn't flex. Absolutely mocks. And then how do you use it in a sentence? Are you like is it a verb? Like are you mugging somebody?

Well, I can give you a fucking headline. I can give you a headline from the other day if you want. This is the best. This is the best one. And in fact, I want to actually break this down because some of these words I don't know and I pretend not I do. This is from Know Your Mem. It's so big. Clavicular, who is a person. Oh, okay.

He's a famous Lux Maxer. Okay. I do know what looks Maxx. Okay. Yeah. I'm obsessed with this, by the way. Clavicular frame-mogged by ASU fratleader. So as you can see in this photo, clavicular is the man on the right.

the man on the left as in he made himself look bigger than the guy. His frame is much better so he's and I think the actual tweet is um clavicular ran into a frat leader at ASU and got brutally

frame-mogged by him and then some reply was like even more brain rot than that. Yeah it's that's another level for me. That's how I know I'm getting old older Should I say? I mean, I know how I'm getting old because I'm desperate to just use these words all the time to annoy younger people.

Yeah, I used the word cooked the other day in front of somebody and they like shook their head at me. Oh, really? I used cooked all the time. Yeah, I feel like cooked is a pretty normal word, but they're like, oh, you're speaking like, you know, gin, whatever they are, whatever. I would dare say as a Gen Z that cooked is slowly dying. Is it? And that proves my point. If it's already out and I'd...

You know what's funny, though? Speaking of architects, we used to say cooked in the definition that it gets used now 15 years ago. And it started from when one of us would be burnt out and we say I'm burnt, which is obviously still a phrase. And then we developed burnt into cooked, but it never really fucking caught on, but we were using it. Apparently did. Somebody carried that. Somebody carried that for a real long time for it to come back. I will die on this hill.

You know, the resurgence of the word diabolical? Yeah. Tom Williams started that. Yeah. It's a great word. Tom Williams has been saying something is diabolical in the way that it is said now for the entire time I've been in straight. Like, it's catering good.

And he'd go, diabolical. Like, and then it fucking became like everyone talks about it now, but he's been doing it the whole time. One of the most impressionable things that Tom has ever seen. said that sticks with our band is no backpacks on seats because we were sharing green rooms in 2016 and i think the first time that i don't even think he's one of us i don't even have crew so i don't even know who it would have been but yeah so we put a backpack on seat and he was like ah-ah-uh-no no backpack it's on seats and we're like yeah that makes a lot of sense that's stuck with us forever i mean it's a great rule it's the best room in and they put their backpack on a seat and

then you're like i don't know who's backpack that is they don't want to move it could be the headline yeah it's highly inconsiderate 10 years ago that in December that will be 10 years since the amity affliction North Lane straight from the path wage war yeah in that order you were babies we were babies how old you uh 32 you were 22 that's how math works what a tour we i think we talked about this last time little babies yeah so it was kind of cool we had a good time uh yeah yeah well we talked I didn't. I mean, I'm sort of saying it nicely that it was kind of cool, but I think my entire band crowd surfed at this Italy show for you guys. Chris got us. Because we played Damien because we weren't playing it. Chris took, we had air, we blew up air mattresses in our van and slept on them. And I think it was the last night of the tour. And Chris went and grabbed one and threw it out of the crowd because you guys played Damien. Was it Italy or was it Spain? I think it was Madrid and it was that evil day where we were all just sat there all those.

long waiting for the show to start. Yeah. Chris said, if we played Damien, he crawlsurf, and then that happened. I think there might be a video of that somewhere. There is. Is there? You have it somewhere, yeah. Excellent. That was fucking 10 years ago. Look at you now. We're neighbors now.

Yeah. Now we're just a couple country bumpkins, dude. Sponsored by Trigger. That was a good American accent. I'm going to take that one. I had more to say about clavicular getting brutally framed mocked by ASU frat leader. But I wanted to bring up. This is just, no one's going to want this content.

I've looked at my demographics. It's 21 and up. And this is for like 14 year olds. But join me in making it so uncool that it stops getting said. Let me just Google, sorry, clavicular, brutally framed-mogged. Anyway, mewing is actually when you, like, stick your face out and you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Oh, you suck in your cheeks. For your jaw lines specifically.

That's nice, dude. I like that. Guitarist brutally mu-mogged by... Brutally mu-mogged by drama. Brutely framed-mogged. I want the reply. Someone replied with... Jester maxing.

What? I don't know what jester maxing is. That's what I want to know. Jester maxing, please. Originating from the in-cell community. It refers to the act of using humor, clownish behavior, or acting as a fool to gain attention, particularly from women in a dating or social context.

Call me the fucking Jester Max. In Jester Max in my whole goddamn life. You got a fucking tool coming up. I do. Yep. We have Orthodox. With Orthodox. Yep.

It's us, Never Tell an Orthodox. A little three band banger. Who will never tell? I don't know. They are like a newer band, I think. I think they're from Florida too. But yeah,

they've got, I mean, they're on octane a lot. So it kind of services the two sides of our band. They got the choracy bit and then you go Orthodox, which is the heavy. Yeah, they're like, they're probably both more extreme versions of the, of our band. I'm obsessed with Orthodox. Yeah, dude, that's literally, it's my favorite heavy band. And I message Austin and told him, like, dude, when they put out their last record, it's like, this is like my favorite thing to happen to heavy music in years.

I see Austin every single day. Really? He's my gym buddy. Sick. Yeah. And he just gets it. He like, he, obviously he's young. Yeah.

He's in with like the cool, cool guy music. Yeah. But like, like, cool guy. Do you know what I mean? No, like fucking hardcore. Yeah, he's got his, he's got his finger on the pulse. Yeah. Yeah.

But then he also like, knows about the old head shit that makes stuff heavy. Yeah. And then he'll be like listening to Gojira and shit like that. And I feel like that band just took the perfect storm of like, okay, I like these bits from hardcore. and I like these bits from like Panterae metal and I like these bits from fucking new metal

and morbid angel and just put it all together and just like, oh, I love how riffy it is. Like, it's so easy to, you know, lean on like the trophy, like, to make something heavy to just do the like 01, whatever stuff. But dude, there's like some serious riffs on that record. I love it. I'm really excited. How did it get put in front of you?

I met Austin a while ago. I don't even know if he was in Orthodox or not. He's in like fucking 11 bands. Yeah. One of those guys, like Isaac Hale. Yeah. I'm doing a new band. We're playing a show tomorrow.

Okay. It might have been Britain's pretty tapped in with like heavy music. He likes like the heavier stuff. Like he kind of leans more like death metal like hardcore than I do or like proper metal stuff. So I think he like played it. And I was like, oh yeah. Like I, we know somebody that's in that band. And then yeah, I think I followed Austin.

Instagram or whatever and as he was like, he posts riff videos all the time and I'm like, dude, insane. And so yeah, when the record came out, I listened to the record and like immediately texted our group chat. I was like, we have to have this band. I feel like they're next on the the cool guy chopping block

as I like to call it. Yeah. Diane Wish recently on the cool guy chopping block. As in they get popular enough that underground no longer. Mm-hmm. Orthodox are next. But what they're doing, they're taking. they're taking all the sort of tours that stray took to get as big as we did yeah like you have to

the amity tour like you put stray and amity next to each other it's not similar but like it was fucking amazing for us as a band to be like on that tour like we were the heavy band which was weird because stray's like not heavy they will i'm sure that they will catch some uh some shit for touring with us no but it's gonna be fucking it's gonna be awesome it's gonna be great for their career like They got Ami and you this year, and it's like, two the best tours you could have picked for progressing your band. Yeah. It's going to be great.

Yeah. Cool guy suicide. That's okay. I mean, it happens. No offense. I don't mean offense by that. It happens all the way up the scale, though. It's like pop people bringing out like bands, right?

Like rock, you know, like the bands that kind of like teeter on the pop rock thing. And then you've got metalcore bands going out with active rock bands. And then you've got like creed, like. hardcore metal core going out with octane core bands you i mean it's just it's just the levels of everything you know what i mean people don't understand it's like it's important to do you have to do it you can't just play to the same people over and over and over and over yeah i do i hope you didn't find that offensive i'm offended are you actually offended i'm super offended yeah even like slightly just a little bit offended doesn't doesn't offend me at all i mean that it's

a band that's very, very heavy with a band that is like sometimes not so heavy. Yeah. I am full consciousness of what we are and what it means to take out a band like that. Orthodox is next on the Cool Goal chopping block. It went, knock loose. Some reason they're still weathering it.

Yeah, they're still super cool. Still weathering it. And I think, to be honest, I think Orthodox will weather it because knowing who they are as people, they will always bring some time, like what, knock loose dude, they'll bring some tiny fucking

hardcore band no one's ever heard of to pay the fucking 3,000 people. Yeah. But there is that weird, I don't know what it is. And I feel like, you know what? I think the reason it pisses me off so much, because I think when I was a kid, I was like this. When a band got too big, I was like, that's not cool anymore. It is like

one of the worst things about our culture. Truly. Like, and we've all done it. Yeah, we've all done it, but it's like, I can't like this anymore or you can't like this anymore because too many people like it. want you to be like my special band. And really in in reverse, you would think that if you like this band and you want to see them succeed, you would want them to be able to like, I don't know, pay their bills doing

what they want to do. And a lot of times at what at a certain level of music, like you can't do that. You know what I mean? Like you have to reach a certain threshold of like, you know, grinding before it's like, all right, cool. Are we going to make money? Or are we just going to keep spending time away from home and families and working a second job to make this dream happen. You know what I mean? You would think that it's like, wow, how cool

is that that they can, you know, do with that? And then for us, obviously. And still will be fucking real or whatever. Yeah. I think I've just decided how I feel about this, my line in the sand with it. Okay. Based on a small therapy session we've just had and me remembering what I was like as a kid. Amazing. Under 25 years old, if you talk shit on a band not being good anymore because you prefer their old stuff. I'm going to give you a pass under 25 years old. I'm now going to give you a pass because I think probably I was a bit like that. Gatekeeperie.

And then you grow up and then you get the wisdom of the world, some of it. And you realize people need to do certain things or they need to just fucking change their sound because they're fucking bored or whatever. Yeah. If you're in your 30s and you're talking shit about a band, no. you can't do it i'm sorry i subscribe to that dude yeah you have better things to do with your life you have a job now i need two things you if you do impress at a festival or you're uh online critique person i need to watch you set up an amp so it makes noise and then if you're going to talk shit about a band's

new stuff i need to see your id i've never done it but my number one comment i'm sure i'll start doing it after i'm going to say that i want to do it i literally just want to go show me your band yeah i used to do don't want quite a lot. Yeah, someone's like, this sucks, generic. I was like, cool, show me your band. Where's your band? Bro, nothing is worse

than when I see somebody like chirping online and then I'll go look at their page and I'll look at their band and it takes everything in me to not just put them in a casket, I stopped doing that. I would never do that.

It's not in my character to do that, but it certainly crosses my mind. It's a little devil on my shoulder. I've been doing it. When someone comes into my stream, in fact, I would say it's recent as last week. If someone comes into my stream and talks shit about my playing,

I go, Simon, do it. And then Simon goes and pulls up their drum videos and then sends them to me. And sometimes we watch them on the stream and I'll just fucking annihilate. Oh. But I've recently had some old guy thing that I'm like, I shouldn't be fucking punching down.

I shouldn't be punching down. Bro, you're going to shed the hate cape, dude. I'm so fucking argumentative. Riftgate. O word, twin tuition, hate keep. It's fucking great. We covered a lot of ground. That's fucking great. You want to do a bit of fun at the end?

Yeah, is the Metallica thing? Do you know what this or that is? Anyway, when is that, sorry, when is that tour start? That's a great question. Off the top of my head, it's April. April summit. Guess what I would have already told you at the beginning of this? Yeah, I think it's April 25th.

It starts at Sick New World, I think, and then goes until May, late May. It's a sick new world's back. That's pretty cool. That's right. Okay. This or that, Metallica songs. Okay. Enter Sandman or Creeping Death.

Oh. I've fucking painstaking. Wow. Wow. Straight out the gate. I'm going to have to stick with my brand and go Inter Sandman because I think the black album is like the best thing of all time. It's the Holy Grail to me.

But Creeping Death is, yeah. Back on the running theme of this whole episode. Yeah. I used to be a black album hater. Really? And then I grew up and I was like, it's fucking amazing. Dude, it's incredible. It's so good.

However, sometimes I skip Samad. But just because it's got a billion streams on it? Yeah, and I've just like heard it before. And like, it's obviously a great song. But like, sometimes I just want to get straight in there. Yeah. I mean, I did, Creeping Death. I'll tell you this.

My favorite Metallica video is them playing Creeping Death in Moscow. Oh, unreal. The extended bridge of just the die. Yeah. Like a one point something million Russians chanting die with the military as the security for the show is like the hardest thing of all time. That was a dodgy show.

Do you know Josh from Solosis that used to be an architect? I don't. I follow him, but I don't know him. Absolutely. He's a Metallica. Biggest Metallica nerd on. Yeah. Like you guys would get on great.

Okay. So, end a salmon and master of puppets. I'm gonna go Sandman again. Whoa. I mean, but here's the deal. Like, you're, you're catching me at the Black album

is my favorite Metallica album. Yeah, I'm probably gonna put that. I can still get you. I can still get you. I can still get you. Don't worry. Okay. Sandman or nothing else matters.

Uh, same man. Saman or Saint Anger. St. Anger. No, so Saman. Saman or Blackened. Same man. Fuck. I know.

This might not be good. You should have, you should have not. Can we just keep Sandman until the end? Can we do a different bracket that doesn't have Sanman? We're going to go see. We're going to go, we'll see if I can do it. And if not, I'm going to have to fucking make a new one. My favorite Talica song is on. Don't tell me. Don't tell me. No, la, la, la, la, la. Okay. Don't say anything. Samman or Sanitarium. Samman or Fight Fire with Fire. Same man. Saman or one. Same man. Saman or sad but true. Ah, sad but true or battery.

with me and has to be able to be able to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, potion 9, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my cabo needs, nutrition profound, protection contraband,

99% less of rotura, and punas abirtas under control. New potion 9 of Sebastian Professional, the secreto professional of who

not are not the people but they're there we go, done! Okay. I knew it was quite good. Can you guess my favorite

Metallica song? It is on the black album. I'll give you a hint. I don't know how into Metallica history you are, but it was thought that it was going to be the first single on Black album. I don't know the answer, but I'll tell you one of my favorite Metallica songs of all time. Okay.

That is on the Black album. Okay. Holy in the Now. Dude, that's my favorite Metallica song. Oh my God. Let's fucking go. Dude. I nearly put it on the list,

and then I thought some people just don't know it or don't fuck with it. How many times a week do I listen to that in the car? it's a lot dude when it drops to just bass and drums yeah dude it's so good

it makes me missing you said a lot though yeah so the if you have you ever watched the year and a half in a life of a

I have a million times me too they talk about it in the in that documentary that holier than now was going to be

the single and then I don't know if it was it label or whatever was it a single I don't even know I wasn't it's supposed to be

first song off the record and they only they dropped same man. Oh, I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I love that. I will watch that documentary and then go upstairs. Like, oh, if I'm feeling like, like, I need to get juiced up or something, I'll just watch that documentary and then go upstairs and try to write Metallica riffs, but make them wage war riffs. So I have two people that I specifically think of when I was that documentary. One is Josh Middleton, because we would just do it. We would just do it. It would be like, you want to have a Metallica

night, and then I'd drive his. This is like back. in a day when we both live with our parents. I drive the ears and then we just either watch that or we, you know, we just any of the old Metallica shit. Yeah. And then Chris Rawson from Stix Your Guns, another massive Metallica guy. Really? And we would

watch that on tour just constantly and just sit and just talk about how fucking cool Metallica race. I'm glad we got to fucking hodier than now being your favourite and one of my favorites. Yeah, that is the cherry on top honestly. I might even put it it might even be my favorite

I think batteries probably my favorite under underneath that for me would be wherever I may roam that song is insane you are just a black album dude I love I the black not to reopen a whole other part of this but like the black album being like the first like mainstream metal thing I think just shows so much about like

it's probably the entire argument that we we had this entire thing about like octane and whatever and probably back then the metallic, like the black album, people were like, oh, what's this like, because everything was like slowed down, right? Like, talk about the documentary. Like, you know, Bob Rock was like, well, let's slow everything down. Like, they had never done anything that was just at like straight tempo.

It was always just like thrash and stuff, which is awesome. But, like, having songs and, like, actual choruses and stuff like that, but big riffs, like everything about that, my, I've said every single time we go to make a record, I said, I just want to make the 20, whatever year we're in, 2020. black album. Yeah. Not necessarily sonically, but like I want to make

a defining commercially accepted heavy music record. That's all I ever want to make. And I try to study that and figure out how they did it. And it's, you know, it's lighting in a bottle.

But it's so weird. It's like in the first five Metallica records, if you swapped justice and puppets, the transition to black album wouldn't be as crazy as it was. Yeah. I think justice, they went full,

I love justice. Pound for pound is my favorite metallic record. Really? Yeah. I would say that's my least consumed Metallica record. What, over like reload? Oh, okay, pre-black album. Yeah.

Of creeping, Master and Injustice for All. But when you like... Or Jack Creeping, Ryan, the Lady. Didn't even mention Colonel. What is it? Oh, yeah, I don't listen to that either. Me neither, I don't care. Yeah, I don't care either.

It comes on and I go like... It's a bit like Iron Maiden Aphamine. I was never a maiden. I was a Metallica, Pantera, Slayer. kid. Yeah. I know that at the time when that came out, people were like ready to run through walls

because I'm sure that was crazy in that time. But that's probably just a little too far back for me to listen to and accept as like, I want to listen to this as like a 30-year-old. But like, ride the lightning, amazing. Did you ever watch that? There was a DVD. It wasn't a DVD.

It was a show and it was on TV. And it was like, I think it was just called like history of metal or something like that. And a guy went through all the genres all the way back from Black Sabbath and every episode was like a different era. And it went all the way up to like Kill Switch Metalcore.

Really? This was probably like 2012 or something this came out. I can't remember what it was called. But there was an interview with Dave Lombardo talking about when the black album came out. And he was so pissed. Yeah. I threw it down the stairs.

I was so pissed. And when I listened back to it, yes, against justice, kind of a big lead. But like compared to Papa, it's some fucking shorter songs but still like some singing bits. Yeah. Like

I don't know, yeah, I used to be a black album hater. But then loved, I love I still love like load and reload. Like I, there's some bangers on there. What are the load? I get the two, I get the track list mixed up on those. Between load and reload. Yeah. So do why.

So is load like King Nothing? Yes. I love that song. Load's got King Nothing. It's got Two by four. Two by four. It's got Hero of the Day. It's got... Memory remains, or is that reload?

That's reload. It's got Outlaw Torn. I would say there's something for me on both those records, but it doesn't electrify me as the Black Album does. We didn't even talk about the production on the Black Album.

The mix is just the greatest kick and snare of all time. Yeah. I heard... Somebody once told me, this is probably blasphemous. If this ever reached Metallica's ears, I would, I don't know, but someone told me it was a literal keyboard.

Maybe it was somebody that didn't understand sampling, but they were like, yeah, the kick and snare are just a keyboard kick and snare. There's no way. No, there's no, there's no, you can see it on those videos. Yeah, on the year and a half in the life. Clearly. He's hitting those drums. I know the fucking view right there and that is the sound of the fucking black album. Dude, the guitars, like this hyper-scooped balls guitar, it just feels like, it feels like it's like, it's like,

to track. Was it diesels back then? No, they're Mesa guys, like, through and through. Unless they changed something for the studios, but they have always been Mesa, the, um... He didn't ever go diesel? Mark 4, I think is what they used.

He never went, I'm not Googling it, but... They're marked two C-plice. I don't know. I'm not that in on it, but they have been Mesa as long as I've known. Reload's got fuel, memory remains. Unforgivens on load. Fuel is incredible, dude.

Unforgiven. The fuel is so good. Yeah. I mean, it sort of birthed the meaming of James Hepfield. Doesn't deserve it, though. Every time he does the, it's cool. Do you know what's fucking sick is, I've seen Metallica live more times than any band I've ever seen.

And I know every place that he does it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To the point where when I'm listening or singing along to like the record versions, when it doesn't happen and I sing it, I'm like, what the fuck? And then I remember, oh, it's just alive. The live way.

The question is, are we taking the trip to the sphere? Oh, 100 fucking percent. We got to do it. Is it announced yet? I mean, they keep saying that they've like almost closed the deal with Metallicao Gizosphere, but we got to go. Yeah, there's no way I'm not going. Yeah.

And the minute I heard that was even a thing. I'm even debating later this year, Metallica Gojira, not loose in the UK. Yeah, 100. Like, it might be worth the flight. What a crazy lineup, dude. It's funny. The stadium they're playing in Scotland.

I used to live on that street. Really? Like you could look out my window to the stadium. I don't live there anymore, obviously, but... Yeah. And it was fucking annoying when I was a football match on. But I'd love to have been there when it was like, oh, Metallica playing down the street.

Because you could sit in your garden, you could listen to the band. Obviously, I'd be there, but like... Yeah. Kind of fucking sick. Very sick. It's a great lineup. Let's end it on holier than now.

Holier than now are. You are. Holy other now No No Wow There we go That's intro and outro

When the fucking bass comes in Anyway Love you mate Thanks for coming back on Thanks for having me