The Downbeat - Dan Searle - Architects

Episode Date: October 22, 2018

My guest this week is one of my most beloved friends AND the most requested drummer so far: Dan Searle of Architects. We try and talk about drums but mostly we talk about the good old days when I was his drum tech, borrowing snare drums from Napalm Death, and I guess we talk a bit about their upcoming album Holy Hell. I also hypothesise what Dave Grohl could do to get his edge back.

Hello, devoted listeners of the Downbeat podcast. This is the big one. This is the one all my DMs are about. I know that you're friends in real life. So maybe you could get Dan from architects on the podcast. Well, guess what? He's here. He's not here.

He's been here. Yeah, he's had a kid, so I sort of left him to it. And then he hit me up and said, can I be on your podcast? I said, of course, I'm gagging for it, Dan. so yeah Dan Searle from architects we try and talk about drums but Dan doesn't really care so that's quite funny and it's two hours long so we do talk about stuff but I can't really remember

we just had a nice chat there's a little bit about spirituality about how having a kid has changed him we do talk about drums a fair amount we talk about the good old days when I was his drum tech and how awful I was at that and how it's amazing I didn't get fired. Um, yeah, this bit's redundant, isn't it?

I would just talk and you don't care. You're going to skip it anyway. Luckily, there's no adverts. If anyone wants to give me gratuitous amounts of money, I will say something about your company here. As long as the company's cool. I'm not going to do it if it's like Shell oil. Although Shell, if you're listening, you know,

if we're talking six figures, DM me. Dan Searle, the Downbeat podcast. Dan Searle Debian. Hello. How are you? I'm good, Craig. How are you? I'm good. I had to really remember that that's your name and it's not just Dan Searle.

But in my phone and my life, I just call you Dan Searle. It's never just Dan. I'm still widely known as Dan Searle. Yeah. Does that mean I should put Dan Searle on the sort of the clickbait? Is Dan Searle going to be clickbait and your real name won't be clickbait? That might be the case, yeah. Yeah, it might confuse people. People are easily confused, aren't they? They are.

Like, they didn't know you had a child, these fans. Yeah, well, they're clearly not following me on Instagram, which is a damning indictment of their fandom. It is. The most hotly anticipated guest on the Downbeat podcast, even though I never said that I would have you other than to you, but everyone messages me all the time. Hundreds of messages down.

Hundreds. Same as not thousands, but yeah. Yeah, well, it's a pleasure to be here, Craig. It's an absolute honour. I've listened to the other podcasts. Thanks very much. It's not an honour. You're sort of doing me in favour, aren't you?

Really? Although you did ask. Well, I thought, you know, it'd be nice to have a chat. I'll plug the album. Big time. I mean, 7,000 listeners now. So that is actually, you know, a worthwhile piece of press.

That's legitimate. This is legitimate marketing, isn't it? All drummers as well? Yeah, yeah. That's not going to last long, is it? You're going to run out of dramas pretty quick. I'm going to run out of dramas that I like pretty quick. I mean, I'm very nearly running out now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't like a lot of people, you know? Yeah, it's slim pickings out there, man. A lot of lemons. A lot of lemons in the metalcore world. There's a lot of lemons. I mean, there's a lot of nice guys, but there's a lot of like, do I want to talk to you for two hours? No.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know what you mean. It's tough. But you can always do shorter ones with some people. I mean, this one, I'm going to have to like start stopping myself from just talking shit because this could easily be five hours long down. Well, I've been a bit worried about it, Craig. Why?

Just worried about what I might say. Yeah, that's what I've actually been. excited about because to my knowledge you've never sort of done an interview publicly that's with a friend. Well, I would say that I did a podcast of Dan Carter and I would class Dan Carter as a friend. But it was under unusual circumstances. So this is a little bit more casual, isn't it? Slightly more upbeat, I'd imagine.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, I've, you know, I have trouble with maintaining a public persona that isn't an asshole. So, and, well, it's, no, carry on. No, it's just tough, isn't it? Because, you know, I'm, being, you know, present on the internet these days, it's, it's tough not to be baited into wanting to chop someone's head off. and I've noticed that a lot of people are indulging in that. Yeah, I'm one of them. I'll just go straight in.

Yeah, yeah, I feel like I'm... So do you, actually. In fact, someone told me the other day that you, me and Brendan from counterparts are like the holy trinity of people just telling people when they're being a little shit on the internet. Yeah, I do it. I do do it.

I mean, you know, like, but I often have to attract what I've written. or sometimes I post something and then delete it because I just think, you know, I worry that people, you know, if I'm going to call someone out or rinse someone, I worry because often it's because they've said something dathed. And then I wonder then what's going on with that person, you know. Yeah, that's the same thing. I wonder if they're, you know, I don't know if they have learning difficulties

or, you know, might be like a... They're simply American or, you know, it could be... I'm not going to say that, but like... Ha! I said it. It's my podcast. I say what I want. I've noticed.

Yeah, I don't know. I just... I do worry. I do worry about what I'm getting myself into and if I'm going to get in a lot of trouble, you know? It's... It's touchy out there, isn't it, you know? It is. Do a song about the Nazis, mate.

They love it. Yeah, I know. Yeah. You land yourself in hot water there, you know. Big time. All laughs now, all smiles now, though. Yeah. Yeah, you can look back and laugh.

It's a funny story now, but I know you weren't laughing at the time. Oh, don't say, don't tell them. Yeah, well, at that time you called me up, you're in tears, call me up. That didn't happen. That didn't happen. All right, ah, more of this. Rules like this. I've got actual notes to, like, sort of talk about stuff, but this is nice just to catch up,

because you've had a baby. Yeah. That takes up all of your time. Yeah, yeah, it does take over a lot of my time. As time goes on, I have more free time, thus being able to take a couple hours to do this now, which is nice. What happened prior to this? What was the baby doing? Zephi.

Zephi had a bit of a cry, got home from town with my wife, Amelie. Zephy had a bit of cry. Shout out. And now Amelie and Zephy downstairs and Zephy is asleep on Emily, and Amelie's relaxing. Nice. Yeah. It's all good. That's quite good.

Have you got, I'm looking right now into the eyes of my dog and I'm thinking my dog's got a fairly, you know, her name lends itself to many nicknames. Right, yeah, yeah. So, Zephy got any? Yeah, Carlo Zepharoni. Brilliant. Command Zephron. I knew there would be some, and that's why I'm asking you. Yeah, yeah, there's a few flirting up out.

but she used to Command for Zephron's good Yeah it's an alien one Yeah it's an alien thing And when she when she was really little And she would cry like really really hard Oh she's really big now She's massive two months old

She's grown up She's grown up She's grown up She used to cry and go She used to get and gay all the time She just crying and gay and gay And gay And gay

So I called her Kolo and gay Which sort of like an African flavour to it. I don't know if that's okay, if that's... I think that's fine. Is that cultural appropriation? I don't know what that means, really.

Oh yeah, speaking, while we're on the subject of that, of an African flavor, quite literally, I've moved to the Midlands, right? Not very African up there. As you well know. Yeah. It's not. And what's really destroying me is my local Tesco doesn't have an African food section.

Oh, you're kidding me. I can't believe that. Honestly, and I get it. I get it. But there's stuff that I would buy all the time where I used to live. I don't know if my local has an African section, to be honest. Maybe that's a Redding saying. You're missing out.

There's loads of good stuff. Back on the nicknames thing, Commander Zephron is now all I'm going to call her that. And this isn't on my notes, but can we just run through the list of names for Ali, please? because some of my fondest memories of architects. I mean, he won't forgive us for doing it. But, I mean, he had all sorts, didn't he? I mean, I remember the first time we were played on Radio 1 when I think the fellow was called Mike,

when he did the rock show. I think it was when he did the rock show before Dan, before he got shifted to the lateh slot on the punk show. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when we did nightmares. this is a long time ago and Ali was listed as being called Pepe Dean

on that. I don't know why. I never heard Pepe Dean, that's good. I mean, I'll call him anything. I mean, my current one that I call him a lot is Frog. Nice. Yeah, he doesn't like it

and I always tell him that it's nothing to do with the animal. It's just a nice name. It's just a name. More than that. It's not. nothing to do with the animal. It's nothing to do with a frog. It's just the word frog is just a nice name that sort of suits him. I mean, Luna gets called frog quite a lot, actually.

Really? Well, there you go. What was the, what was the brigadier one? Brigadier, um, pig little. Pig little, yeah. I mean, oh, actually, I know where frog came from and I know, I know that this is why he doesn't like it is because it comes from frog stupid, which is a brass eye situation. So I did call him Frog Stupid for a while, but that insinuated that he was stupid, which of course he's not. He's not a very bright boy.

Often he's failed to realise that the names don't actually mean what I'm saying. Do you know what I mean? I'm not actually saying he's stupid or fat or whatever. No, it's just nice. It's nice. And, you know, Ali is a very loved and popular man. universally you know

so I don't see why he should worry too much about you know a silly name I might have given him you know so yeah I'm scratching my head a bit for some reason they're evading me you know because when I'm off tour I've been off tour for a long time now

and I just call him Al at home but then when I get on tour for a while and the sort of psychosis starts to set in But even Al came from Alan, not Alex. Alan. Yeah, I mean, I call him Alan before Ali probably. Yeah, this is the thing.

This is the thing. So you're like scratching your head for them because in your head his name is really Alan, which is wrong. That is also a name. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Alan, I mean, Albert, anything really. See, there we go.

Olin. Olin. Ollon. Ollon. Tom was big on Ollon. Tom was huge on Ollon. I called him a Nile. to the point

as in like the band Anil Natcraft Yeah that's what it came from Yeah and it It drove him to distraction Honestly It drove him crazy Because it became like

That's so funny It became like a compulsion For me to just say Annal very softly When I was near it The ritualistic love between

you, your brother and Ali is just something that will stay with me forever and just out Al's face while it all goes on. Yeah, he doesn't like it. I mean, he's hopes that me having a daughter will put it to bed a bit, but, you know, time will tell, we'll see on tour. He thought something else would stop here and it never did.

Well, getting married, 1030, all that stuff. Yeah, married, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Very good. Hey, anyway, let's get back on track. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Right? I used to be your drum tech, didn't I?

Yeah, yeah, you did, yeah, wonderful drum tech, yeah. It's actually very bad drum tech, but that's where I am, why I'm where I am today with Stray from the Path, because my first tour, drum teching for you was with Strait from the Path. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, no worries, don't worry about it. It's all. It was good. I left the drum rug at. Concord 2.

It was the first day. First show, yeah. Should have sat me there and then. Well, Fred does stuff like that. Didn't have the bollocks. My current drum technician, Fred. Fred the Baker. Fred Burnett.

Yeah. You know, I've had three drum techs, and they've all been absolute legends. I've been very lucky. But you were a total fluke, because I didn't actually know you, did I really? No, I think I had, I knew Sam from back in the day, from the hardcore punk scene. of 2001 or something Yeah And then

I think when you were recording I don't know Some album I delivered something to Tim once And you guys were there Yeah Yeah we were recording Daybreaker Yeah

In that house in Sinnfield Yeah I remember you come around Sneeping around And then suddenly I got a text from you Yeah It was just like

Do you want to be my drum tech It was just a role the dice, wasn't it? I knew you were friends with Josh and a good drummer so I thought, let's go for it and it, you know, it was a bullseye, wasn't it? A hole in one. It was such a great time.

Yeah, it was great, yeah. We had a lot of fun, didn't we? A very unprofessional tech, forcing you to be unprofessional as well. Yeah, I remember I was having a rough show in Leeds. And I said, I turned to you and I said, I need a drink. And you came back,

you bought me a gin and tonic that was... Oh, the proportions of gin and tonic were backwards, weren't they? And then I was too drunk. That Lees Cockpit Night, actually, I lost my wallet that night. And I got bitten by a spider or something in my bunk. In the jungles of Lees? In the jungles of Leeds. And it was...

Yeah, I think I must have been drunk by the time I made you a drink on stage. Yeah. Very unprofessional drum tech. Yeah, but in a certain way, all of my drum techs have been. You know, Fred is an awfully, I'm not going to say anything bad about Fred because he's just the best. I just, you know, I love him to bits, as you know. But I think he sometimes scratches his head wondering how he's in the position he's in. I think he doesn't

Oh, he's landed on his feet Yeah, he's never done a tour on a van Fred so he went straight to Oh my God He went straight to the bus Can I come back? Yeah So I know

No, Fred's not professional He does You know he does He tries to be professional But we encourage him to be unprofessional You know like we put him on stage And make him Scream into the microphone

And Whereas I was the opposite Quite I mean The drums always sounded good Yeah essentially a bit of an ego thing I think me probably being like I'm in the band as well really I'm a real I'm a real drummer

yeah did you feel like you're a little bit too good for it in a way not not that sometimes it did kill me like watching it and being like I really could be doing something like this I remember we did a festival in Belgium and you were checking my kit and that Dave fella

who played him burnt by the sun and municipal waste um who's Dave Witt yeah he's a tidy drummer isn't he and he he's great he said to me like who's this band going on now

and I said oh it's architects and he went oh who's the drummer and I went oh I am and he was like well he's the fellow playing the kit right now and I was like oh that's my drum tech Craig and he was very impressed

with your Just your dilly dallying on the drum kit. Hey, that was the gig where your snare bottom went. Oh my God. And we had to borrow a snare from Napalm death. Yeah. In the middle of the set. And I destroyed it.

And it was tuned like a shotgun and you destroyed it. It was wrecked. I couldn't. Because he obviously just plays very fast, doesn't he? And doesn't hit all that hard, which is fine. Just, you know, I've got no issue with that. But he obviously had. a very

I mean, yeah, it was very thin head, wasn't it? And I just absolutely, it was battered. And I just ran away and left you to it. And to be honest, I didn't even ask him in the first place. It was a big festival thing and the snare had gone. I was like, well, I can't have him up there without not playing with the snare. So I just nick one from the closest kit. It was napalm deaths.

And I remember, who, I think Chris Adam was doing sound then. and he just, the first hit that you did on it because it was tuned so much higher than yours, like almost blew the PA in the festival. Yeah, it was totally inappropriate. Yeah, that is funny. Good days. Sorry, Napalm deaf.

I would be so pissed if someone did that to me. No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't care. Well, I'd just switch it out for another snare drum, but... Exactly. I didn't have two at the time. I think, like, my bottom head on my spare

was blown out or something or something like that. Yeah, right. You're supposed to have that ready as a backup, but that was actually just a broken snare in a box. No idea what I was doing. Fun though. Still be fun. The one that I really remember you getting really drunk

and me helping you get really drunk was like Slovenia or something. In one of those little venues there. Oh, yeah. You got so hammered before you played. Bratislava, maybe. I think it was Bratislava. Right, yeah.

And then... Wait a minute. Sam got hurt on stage that night. And he was really, really hesitant to come out for the encore. And I went out and I got like the crowd to chant something, right? Which is funny. Everyone had drunk too much. That's what happened.

We played Bratislava again. Not this summer. Just gone on one before. And Sam did the full, um, side show Bob, rake thing with his mic stand. He jumped off his riser and his stand just smashed him in the face. And he just left the stage immediately and he had like busted his nose open, his lip over and his face was covered in blood. I mean, it wasn't good. It was legitimately bad.

So yeah, I guess Prattislava was a bit of a cursed spot for Sam. You said you would never drink again that night. Everyone was too hammered and basically it was a terrible show. And you all played so badly. It's the only time I've ever seen you actually really play bad. But you were very drunk. Do you remember if that was the show? And this is really specific.

But I remember we did a sound check. And what were we doing? I think we played the entirety of early grave with clean guitars from start to finish for no reason. I mean, that's a minor detail, isn't it? But, yeah, I mean, look, I still play drunk for sure. I mean, God. on the last string of touring we did it was about halfway through

so we did Australia and then we did Europe and then we did that the show at Alexander Palace then we went to the state and halfway through the American tour I kind of had to draw a line under the margaritas because I was

it was really it started to get a little bit unprofessional you know Ali Pally I was hammered that's real interesting Yeah, but it was just nervous How many So yeah, if you're listening kids

No, if you're nervous Drink alcohol Such a bad idea If you look If you look If you, so we just released that documentary right If you, there's a bit in it Where there's someone

I'm getting to that There's a bit where someone's following me to stage Okay And I sit on my stool And start playing immediately Okay, that's the first song of the set. Hang on.

I thought when I was watching that, I thought, has like Tom Welsh just made you do that during sound check just to get a real cool shot? That's real. If I missed...

Oh my God. If that's the first song in front of 10,000 people, click is running. You literally sit down and you start immediately. Immediately. I was so sure that was fake.

I get so much anxiety just watching that back. I can't... What a stupid prick. I don't... was to cut it that fine. My God. Rare by you doing something.

I can't believe that. Honestly, if I had tripped, stumbled, arrived one second later, I would have started the song later than everyone else in front of 10,000 people. That's the way I'd have started the set. And you know what it's like when you play a show? If you play the first song like shit, your head's gone, isn't it, at that point, basically. Oh, 100%. And it's just hell.

Get me off there. Yeah, it's an uphill battle. And you can barely make up for it. You've got to start strong, haven't you? I mean, I haven't got, you know, if we're doing football talk, I simply don't have the character to come back from a major hiccup like that at a show that big. Forget about it. I'd probably have just stormed off and gone, sorry, everyone, refunds at Ticketmaster or whatever it is.

Fuck me. Imagine that. Different story. Probably wouldn't be on the podcast. I'd be like, yeah, remember Dan? Remember Dan? Yeah, he lost his mind. We don't really speak anymore.

Um, speaking of that first song thing, we just switched. Um, we put Outbreak as first on that last tour we just did. Yeah. And also with me battling a hip injury. Right. And I, I would play it badly every single time. Awesome. Because number one, it's not a song that I wrote.

So it's not naturally what I would play. And also, I didn't really spend that much time learning the old songs. listen to them and went, yeah, it's kind of how they go. And then I sort of just made my own stuff up. Yeah, he showed the material, the respect. It deserves, truly. Yeah, and then, and then just fucked all over it. Yeah.

And then, I had this hip injury thing. And there's a lot of kick drum in that song. And I would, I wouldn't blow it, but it was just like, you know, when you've got so much energy on the first song, and it's so much energy going into kick drums, and I've already got a dodgy hip. Yeah. I would get, I would burn myself.

out in that first song and also make some mistakes in it and then just I spent an entire six weeks tour not enjoying myself because I was just like this is I fucked up the first song might as well just go home I mean drums is just it's such a confidence uh situation isn't it I mean it's so psychological to me but the hard thing is convincing myself I'm any good. If I thought I was good, I would play great, but most of the time I go on stage and go, I hope I'm shit,

I hope no one notices. Yeah, I mean, there's two things there. I know you hate it, but one of the reasons I film myself quite so much and put it on Instagram or whatever, it isn't because I don't, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't hate it.

Why do I hate that? No, but you don't do it. Oh yeah, but that's just because I'm not really a drummer, am I? Just like a guy that plays drums on tour. Shut up, shut up, shut up. And then, so one of the reasons I do that is because I then look back on it on something that I thought was shit at the time. And then I go, oh, actually, that was quite good.

Whether that means I'm getting progressively worse, I don't know. Craig, you are a proper drummer who takes the instrument seriously, as all professional drummer should. You do really. I don't play drums. You do play the drums. On tour? On tour.

So you don't practice at all at home? Never. What sort of a guest are you on this? I'm trying to inspire people here. I just believe... The biggest guest on the podcast doesn't practice. It gets drunk before he plays. There's no point pretending otherwise, is it?

I mean, look, listen, when I was in the early years of the band, I lived on a practice pad at home, and I'd spend all day, every day playing a practice bat. I didn't have the means to playing on a drum kit. I never have done still. I'm 31 on Tuesday. I've never had the means to play drums at home, never had the means to go somewhere and play drums

unless I want to lug it out and set it all up, pack it all down, lug it back to wherever it's stored. So I would play drums more if I had had that. I mean, sure, you could probably say I could have been able to sort of make that happen, but I haven't. Yeah, but it's also, you know, on. No, I mean, look, I want to play the drums well, not well enough

to practice at home, obviously, it seems. But for some reason, I just don't find the it's not the time, it's not a time issue. I suppose it's not even motivation. To me, I guess it's a low priority. That sounds really bad. No, I'm going to have to interject here, right?

because to try and fucking inspire these people, there's no way, and I know this for a fact, because I think viatri play with architects a couple of times, and you would warm up and practice on practice pads, including the kick drum thing, like for hours before you played. So you have put your hours in, and now you are good enough that you don't have to maintain it that well until a tour comes up.

That's the truth. You're making it seem like you've never practiced. this and you just suddenly really good at drums. No, I said in the early days, I used to play drums all day, every day at home. Well, let's reiterate that. He's done his 10,000 hours, guys, and now he drinks margaritas and does nothing. 100%. 100% I've put in the hard yards, for sure.

And I, you know, it was, that was my obsession for years. It really was. And when, I'm trying to think when I stopped, I mean, maybe it was. like 2010 or something I stopped the relentless practicing but you know like yeah I do prep for albums and stuff but um

I don't know what to say look listen I've got to a rhythm interview scene I've got to do a rhythm interview in like yeah I just did a photo shoot for it is it the front is it are you the front man what do they call it cover cover? Are you on the cover? Sorry, I had a fucking stroke there.

I don't think so. What? You've had a cover before? Or some guy who says that he practices drums probably. Some tamar artists probably on the cover. Have you noticed that? They're always tamar artists. Yeah.

It's going on there. Oh, he's hard. Not me though. They weren't have me. They said, oh, you've been in it too recently. I was like, 2016. Holy fucking two years. Well, releasing your album and then they'll probably listen, won't they?

The drum show and all that stuff will help, though, won't it? Raise the profile. Because it's a different realm that, isn't it, when you get into the drum show folks? Yeah, and to be honest, it's like a secret society. And then you go out to dinner with them all, and it's all like, I'm in now. Yeah.

Hello, as any of you listening, can I do more of those, please? Because I enjoyed it. I didn't. It was terrifying. But I enjoyed it afterwards when I realized I was good. Well, that's all, you know, nothing worth doing is easy, is it, you know? And the bigger the challenge is the great of the reward always. So I'm sure, you know, more opportunities will come along, won't they?

And before you know it, I'll be sort of groveling to just, you know, get a phone call with you to have a chat. I mean, that will never happen, Dan. But this is a good segue, right? Because I got my drum show audio back the other day. And I did a mix of it to put on Vic Fir for like releasing it or whatever. And my mix was crap. And then I got Josh Middleton of Architects fame to mix it for me. And he sent me a mix and it's legitimately incredible.

So let's go on to you've got an album coming out. And what was it like to record an album with Josh Middleton who when he told me you know architects are going to try and carry on um they want me to do it and I said you have to do this

but this will be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life ever because you've never let anyone change anything from a song like that you've written yeah and if they even change the slightest thing you're like rain man

so is that offensive I think that's offensive but it's fine Yeah, it's pretty offensive. It's fine. So, I mean, he is a bit rain, manny. So, yeah, what was that like? Was that fine? Just fine, was it?

Also, I told him, yeah, you're coming into the situation where the main songwriter is not there, and you are also the new guy. Yeah. Combined with all that other stuff. Was that fine then? Just easy. Was it easy?

Just done? I really sympathise with Josh And I don't think many people will Pay too much attention To actually how hard The situation was for Josh to jump into Because obviously he was close with Tom And that's like a big

That's some big shoes to feel You know And so much pressure And you could get caught up in the weight Of what other people might think of it and, you know, it's complicated and I sympathise with him jumping into the situation he jumped into.

But, you know, I can say now that he's done a great job and the album is great and I won't pretend that it was always simple because, you know, like with any band, if you start any band, you have to sort of establish a new working dynamic, don't you?

And figure out who does what and how it's done and usually not. with massive grief involved as well. Massive grief and like just so much pressure to get the album right, you know, because how, I just couldn't think of anything worse than releasing like an average architect's album after what's happened. That would be,

that'd be like tragic in itself, you know, so, yeah, I mean, sometimes I think it was hard for Josh because, you know, he did have to let go of some material he wanted to keep. But by and large, he was so flexible and easygoing. And almost, you know, most of the time,

he would just give me loads of material and to say, how about it, you know, and obviously sometimes he felt strongly about some parts. And, you know, where I felt I could, I listened to him because I do really respect him as a musician, obviously. He's an insane musician. So actually, like, working with him was great because I feel as though he taught me a lot, actually, about just music in general, because let's not forget. I was just a drummer going into this. And when we first started writing the album, I had no idea really what I was doing, you know.

I worked with Tom when I wrote, but I would do, I would just change structure of stuff or I would, like, change the feel of a part or, you know, I'd do drummer stuff, you know. Yeah, same. Whereas now I was getting, I was definitely getting more involved and getting deeper into the songwriting and all the rest of it. So, yeah, actually working with Josh was great. He taught me a lot and he has done a great job. So, you know, I'm not going to be drawn into your game of trying to get some dirt. Try to get some dirt.

There'll be a clickbait. And I know, and you don't have to say it, but I know there will have been times that were fucking so hard because he won't have wanted something to change and then you would have gone, well, it's changing, and then neither of you, both of you were too stubborn to do anything. So there was probably a moment where you didn't speak to each other for a day. If the shoe was on the other foot.

Yes or no. Yes or no. We never didn't speak to each other for a whole day. Nine hours. Nine hours. Look, I, if the shoe was on the other, other foot, I would have found it so hard being in Josh's shoes. If someone took my material and changed it when I didn't want to change it, you know, I would have found that hard for sure because you get attached to the material you write and

it's personal to you and that is difficult, you know, especially if you have got attached to a bit of music and then someone comes in and says they want to do a different. Oh yeah, I'm the worst. We had, the opening move on Only Death is Real was a three and a half minute song and we brought it to Will Putney and he goes, ah, that's an intro. And we're like, what? And he's like, yeah, half the song is crap. And we were like, oh, I was like, I took that really hard to like, to like. Oh, that is tough.

It is tough. I mean, you know, I mean, maybe that's what I think we, we only ever worked with like a producer who did pre-production with us and, you know, got. his hands dirty with the songwriting and that was with Steve Everett's on the here and now and I think that album sounds great and I've got time for what Steve does with his recordings but we found it so hard for him to come in and change stuff we did it but if we found it so hard and uh oh it fucking worked though so well done Steve that worked no I don't think any of the Blames on Steve for that one. Actually, I know.

I actually have to take a lot of blame for what we did at the here and now, because I did push Tom to go in a more like melodic direction. We went a little bit too far, but it wasn't that you were trying to get more mainstream though, is that you were just listening to a lot of comeback here and stuff. Yeah, yeah, for sure, absolutely. And do you know what happened there is we, it's funny because we didn't really get anywhere first couple albums. And then we did Hollow Crown

and we sort of turned some heads, not many. But, you know, we did a show at the Cocoa in London and 1400 people came and we thought that we were selling out Wembley Arena. And it felt like at that point,

oh, we can just do whatever and people all like it. Totally arrogant. It's just delusion. It's not even arrogant. It's just delusion. It just felt like, yeah, we can just do something.

People are listening to it. It's all good, you know. And that wasn't the case, which was a, you know, a lesson we had to learn. It was just we had to learn at the harbors. way. No one came along and told us. Actually, our manager did tell us.

He said, he told us to do a side project and we didn't listen. That's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I should probably just say at this point, I think Josh is literally my best friend and I wasn't rinsing him there. Oh, Josh is the man. I just knew it was going to be difficult. Oh, yeah. It is, though, because, you know, like going back to that, he was going from a situation where he had, you know, Silasus was his baby.

He could just sit and get on with it. Solos is him building, you know, like some people build wooden ships and put them in a bottle. Silas's songs are Josh making his little bottle of a song, and then he puts it all together, and then it's fine and it's done, and no one tells him like, oh, actually, the anchors should be on that side. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That's such a weird fucking reference.

He is a freak in a nice way, like, that he's so, um, I feel like he's so shy to admit how talented he is. Do you know what I mean? It's almost like he's embarrassed by it. Yeah. Yeah, it is like he's embarrassed by how good he is at guitar a little bit, isn't he? Yeah, but now, now you've got one out the way, and I've heard some of it, and it's very good. I'm not going to suck you off about that because you know how to good.

No, he doesn't. It's all good. Thank you, though. But the thing is, now you've got one out of the way. He's actually the perfect person to be in a band. with because when we did that architect stray US tour, I remember just hearing you, I could almost audibly hear you cracking a whip and being like, Josh, I need 100 riffs by the end of tomorrow. And he would actually go and record you 100 different riffs.

Well, he did, he did a track eight on our upcoming album, Holy Hell, is a song called Dying to Hill. and that song is the riffs that he wrote probably on the occasion you're talking about. We were in London, Ontario and he sort of disappeared to the bus. He didn't write 100 riffs. He wrote 35. That was it. And that's track 8 on the album. It made it.

I remember him just like, just sort of like came on. You were like, Josh, I need 100 riffs. And he just sort of skulked off to the back of the bus where the little recording rig was. I don't know. Oh, I do know why that happened. Yeah, yeah. I was trying to get him, I was trying to get some riffs at a certain, a certain tempo for another song actually, which also made the album. But then it also, yeah, I just ended up making, yeah, that song, which is a good song, I think. You do what I do, which is write some drums, get a guitarist to write some rifts and then do it like, remember that game music on the PlayStation back in the day where you just had like a four bar cube and then you would. cut it up and then move it around and go, actually that sounds quite good. Yeah, that sounds quite good.

On PlayStation 1. That's how I write music as well, yeah. Yeah. Very professional. I love writing like that. I do like writing music, but I really love the sort of more of, well, I don't know what the right sort of title is,

more of a producer role where you're working with material that already exists and then, you know, helping sculpt it. I do like that role a lot. Speaking of producers, look, this is going, very well. I'm a professional broadcaster. Hopefully this is recording and it doesn't sound like shit on my end. The thing you sent me sounded very good. Yeah, but then I've sort of coughed into the microphone and I can...

Is it still going? Yeah, it's fine, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Nolly, Adam Nolly Get Good. Yeah. Produced this new one, didn't he? Well, yeah, I mean, he... He didn't so much produce it as...

engineer it and mix it. Phenomily well. I didn't know that. Yeah. So you and Josh produced it or you produced it. No, me and Josh produced it, yeah. Not to diminish what Nolly did because I honestly think it's not ready for me to say, but I do think it's the best metal,

the best sounding metal album I've heard in a long time. I mean, I can't, it's up there with the best to me. It's the best, I think it's the best sounding record we've ever had with respect. to everyone else who's worked with us. It's just, it's a perfect balance of everything, you know. He's the best. Oh, he's insane. He's unbelievable and a really great guy as well.

I'm very fond of him as a person as well. I know you're not, you know, you're not plugged into the internet quite as much as me, but have you seen his YouTube channel? No, I haven't. What's going on there? You honestly won't care because you don't like drums, but he's got a thing called drummer's review. And it just, it does the nerdiest shit that I would, only people like me would like.

So I watched a video the other day where he's like, hello, this is Nolly. You know how he speaks all nice, like an AMSR, ASMR thing. Yeah, yeah, I love it. This is, great. This is Nolly. And today, we're going to be trying different hoops on a 1975 Ludwig Black Beauty. And he just goes through, gets this guy to play the drums, and then it's like single flanged hoops, triple flanged hoops, die cast hoops, bell brass hoops, wood hoops, or whatever, and just has the loop on. so you can hear the subtle differences that different hoops make to a specific drum.

Yeah, I mean, that's insane, isn't it? I mean, it's perfect for me. That's why he's great at what he does, you know? Everyone who's good at what he do is obsessed with it, right? A freak. You've got to be obsessed with whatever you do to be the best of it, haven't you? That's just the nature of things, because there's so many people doing everything. Nollie's the best drum tune I've ever met in my life.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I didn't go near the drums. I mean, God, I did that rhythm thing the other day and Fred had set up my drums up for me but it was a brand new kit, is this acrylic SJC kit I got, and I've never, I'd never seen it before. Photographer saw it before me, I mean, I just walked in,

but Fred hadn't had time to tune it. And I was like, I mean, I don't want to sound like a total dickhead, but I haven't tuned a drum kit in a long, long time. And I was, you know, pretty uncomfortable trying to, I mean, I did a pretty good job, but luckily the photographer wasn't a drummer. so he didn't know a difference anyway.

But yeah, I'm not... Was it just a photo shoot or a video shoot? Oh, just a photo shoot, yeah. I'm not doing a video. Forget about it. Worth tuning them then? Well, they were completely slacked and one of them in the heads, so...

Interesting. Yeah, I like it. Am I supposed to ask you more questions about the other album? I don't know how this works. About the album? You don't need to ask me about the album. You can ask me about whatever you want, Craig. When...

Got any good fills in it? Something me and you both... Something me and you both love, though, is a closed hi-hat in a fill. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, I just throw one in, pretend that I'm a real drummer. Yeah, no, there's only one, the one on Doomsday. Yeah, I'll tell you what, Craig.

I'll come clean. I was so wrapped up with everything else about the album that I didn't... What? Well, I was so wrapped up in... I'm joking. That's a terrible joke. I just didn't have, I didn't have time to practice the parts. I really didn't.

I was, I was, you know, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was working with Sam all the time on the vocals and tweaking little details about the songs. I think I had like one day or two day to practice the, the, the parts and we recorded 13 songs. So, and I already knew Dooms Day. 12 to learn. But a lot of the drums, it was the first time we've ever done where I was making stuff up in the studio. Jazz. Nice. Which is, it totally flies in the face of everything else I've ever done because every other album I would know exactly what I'm doing every hit. Do you know, I don't know if you're the same, but I would know absolutely every detail of what I'm going to play. Yeah, I'm the same and then Will Putney tells me to change it and my muscle memory

literally can't play anything out other than what I've practiced. Yeah. Actually, I think I practice too much. Yeah, there's a balance, isn't it? If a single thing changes, like my crash symbol is an inch to the left or something, then I play like a Fisher Price drummer. Yeah, I know, oh, I totally know what you mean. I totally know you mean.

But because I had no muscle memory at all for any of the songs, it meant that actually I don't even think it was it's not good or bad you know it just meant that I could sort of play around with the fills and actually I would play I mean this is actually here you go

here's some Nollie get good production that he's not got credit for you know I would I would you know just play some ideas and give some different options and Nollie would weigh in or whoever the band was in the control room would give their opinion

Sam's often opinionated about this stuff because he's obviously a very competent drummer and obviously Josh would also have strong opinions on stuff so yeah it meant that we just sort of did stuff a little bit on the fly which is yeah totally different for me but it means you can get drunk more now I don't regret anything I don't listen back and think I wish I'd done anything differently at all it's probably going to be easier to play now because it's stuff you could play without thinking about it so you can get twice as drunk oh I mean that me pushing myself out of my comfort zone on the drum that's done now for sure.

You're over that. I think the guy from Gojira, Mario said that as well recently in an interview, was just like Vinnie Paul had told him that, like, look, do yourself a favour, start winding down the tough bits because they get really hard when you get old. I mean, Mario is an absolute machine. He's the fucking best. He's unbelievable, isn't it?

I mean, his feet are so consistent. It is madness. It's... No, carry on. No, no, I was just going to go back to me because we're giving him Mario too much time. Yeah, that's fine. No, seriously, he's...

He's the second most requested, actually. But I don't really know him. I met him once at a festival, and he said to me, I follow you on Instagram. I was like, yeah, I'm obsessed with you. Bye. Yeah, I've only... I've only bumped into him once

but obviously we all I mean we all love his band don't we? Tremendous trumpet lovely lovely lovely But yeah I do I mean

You know like Do you ever get those songs in the set That you just dread Uh yes You just say Oh we And sometimes that you get two ones You dread back to back

And you think Oh I've just got to get through this And enjoy the rest of the set Here's the thing though The only ones I ever dread Are the ones I didn't write because, again, because I'm still under prepared for them. Right.

Well, I wrote them on the dread. I'm trying to think, is there any... I think if we had strange fiction in there, I would dread that because I think that's the one where I really... I think there's one take in the studio where it was good and that's the one that we used and all the others were like just getting it wrong. But you've got really hard kick drum patterns. that's it.

All the ones that drive me crazy are the ones I wrote. So there'll be like a rhythm in a breakdown that I wrote. But it's now a nightmare for me and I hate it. And I can't wait to release more albums so they're not in the set anymore. Give me which songs they are. Naysay has given me Jip. Because it's insanely difficult. But again, that's my fault.

gravity for our last album that's it sort of at the end of the song it goes not even at the end it happens twice it goes to this weird feel the three the dotted eighth note feel yeah oh it does my and again that's my fault so Tom wrote that rhythm but then I was like

oh let's do it in this feel and I hate it I absolutely hate it but they're both singing so so the the it switches from being on one and two like one, two, three, four with a snare on two and four, it then goes one and the uh of one or something. I know the bit you mean.

Yeah, something like that, isn't it? A dotted eighth note feel. Yeah, sure. It's the, who else does that lot? Mastodon do that a lot. Right, yeah. But obviously without that insane kick drum pattern. Yeah, yeah, they do do it, yeah, but without the kick drum nonsense.

Yeah. Which makes it very hard. I mean, you do it. I've never seen you get it wrong. Well, I have So, but yeah, I mean I go through phases, you know I go through phases for sure

Where you just forget parts of your set Because I do that And I just like I've un- I've unlearned them by playing them too many times We played in Vesparton Was it Vista Barton? Yeah, Vist Baden I think a couple years ago And we were playing

A song called The Devil Is Near And I just stopped in the middle of it Just stopped playing I don't know why I don't know if I thought it was any of the song I'll tell you what we were having major problems with the laptops and they just conced out it was super hot

there was a couple thousand people there and it was like August in Germany it was so hot in the venue and the laptop just died both of them and so I I had to go fix it which it doesn't really look particularly professional but I was stressed out about it

and I don't know if I was distracted or what. I don't want to make excuses. It's just fucking stupid. But you can imagine I was absolutely thrilled and joyous after that show. Oh, yeah. I know that post-show Dansell. I mean, I think Ali was the only one ever in your band that never had a post-show meltdown.

I never saw him have one. He's a baseball player. Yeah, I guess so. but I've seen the others all have mental ones. Oh yeah, we've all, I mean, yeah, it happens, isn't it? It's human beings. It's a nightmare. I can't wait for the transhumanist shit to come in

and we can play like machines. I mean, that's literally what metal is waiting for now, isn't it, for machines to play the song? So it actually sounds like it does on the album. I mean, metal bands just rely on volume. People aren't impressed by that. Huh? People aren't impressed by a machine doing it.

They're impressed by a human being a machine. Yeah. Yeah. So we need the cyborg shit. Speaking of which, speaking of cyborgs, I got, there's two things I do actually want to talk about. One, which is that you have in the past suffered from what I like to call crazy leg syndrome, where your legs just don't perform. Yeah.

But we'll get on to that. But Alex Roodinger gave me this foot warm up thing, right? which I'll give to you. Sorry Alex, but I'm going to give it to Dan. And it's absolutely transformed my kick drum playing. Really? And it's essentially it's a 15 to 20 minute warm up and after I do it, it's hands and feet,

but after I do it, you know, like sometimes you sit on a kit, like you said earlier, it's like, oh, I hope I'm not going to be shit today. sometimes I would sit on a kit and it's like I could be anywhere between a two and a ten out of ten and it's just a dice roll with this warm up including feet

I will sit at the kit at least a seven more often than not a nine it's incredible sorry I'm burping yeah I need to get that yeah because I for me we've got different theories on this. Yeah, on the crazy leg syndrome.

You think it's all in your head. I think it's muscles. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm totally, totally think it's like a psychological, for me it becomes like an anxiety disorder. Which is fine. I think there is a stage when it becomes that for me. So what we're talking about, if anyone doesn't know what we're talking about,

even though I've talked about it. Well, they haven't heard of crazy leg syndrome? Yeah, Jesus Christ. It's when probably about, I would say, two words. weeks into a tour, but on this last tour, I went in on day one with it. Good start. Yeah, great start. Where your feet just don't work.

Not like, it's not even in fast bits for me. It would be like a specific pattern. Just can't do it anymore. And I thought it was that I was, I wasn't burying the beta in my drum head. And to be honest, when I changed to burying the beta, that did get rid of it for a while and then it came back. It's like a psychological.

Nah, but this is the thing. And then I was remembering what else did I do at the same time as leaving the beta in the head? What else did I change? I was thinking about diet or whatever, but it was at that point, I had hurt my back for something else

and I went to a chiropractor and they said your pelvis is twisted. I'm surprised that you don't have like extreme pain or numbness in your right leg and I was like ooh so I went back to a chiro this is a right leg issue yes for me

not a left leg okay yeah it's a right leg which is interesting isn't it because I'm right footed yeah so that was about a year ago and then I went back to I had it again after this tour during this tour and I went back to a chiropractor and they said the same thing and then they did me up whatever they do, and now it's back to full ripping.

So it could be both because I could just be thinking, he's fixed me! And it's actually in my head. Well, this is interesting. So do you have lower back pain or anything? Yes. In your right hand side.

Yes. Yeah, see, I have lower back pain in my left hand side and my problem is with my left leg, so maybe your theory is correct. Maybe you should go to a chiropractor. Yeah, I mean, I thought that it, I thought that my lower back pain was down to having like weak glutes, but your glutes are dead strong. So that's that out of the window. But mine are technically strong from squatting, but sitting in a van and not in a nice bust turns them off. This is what the theory of my chiropractor. I basically, I've been to three chiropractors. One of two of them were good and one of them were shit, but this new guy is like the best. And he does like sports massage as well. theory is that my glutes turn off in the van because I'm sat on them and then I will go and play

the drums and my glutes aren't firing at all glutes means bum by the way for anyone that doesn't know basic sport science then so my glutes are turned off so my hip flexes do all the work and then they get fatigued and then when they get fatigued my lower back starts doing all the work And I film myself at Reading Festival, which is when it was at its height, and my lower back is driving my leg. There is no carve or ankle or even hip involved. I'm just throwing my foot at the fucking pedal. That's really interesting, yeah, because, I mean, my back gets so sore on tour. It gets better when I'm home generally, unless I'm going to the gym at lot, which I'm not at the moment because baby's taken over my life.

but yeah if I go to the gym a lot I tend my back starts to hurt but if I go on tour it starts to hurt I'm not in a van obviously but I play we do hour and a half sets if I mean we only we'd never really support we haven't supported in quite a while now and so it's always like an hour 15 hour and a half and for me that I feel like it's just too long set out of a drum kit but I'm 30 so I can't actually you know I sound like an old an old man.

But I've had problems with my lower back. I've had this problem since I'm 17 generally, but the weird foot syndrome. Yeah. How long have had that? I know, on and off for a few years.

Yeah, but has that gone away? What, crazy foot syndrome? Yeah. Is yours completely gone? It came back for about two weeks of our last American tour

and then I stopped drinking. I started, I stopped drinking and sort of started looking after myself and just I would like to sort of relax more and just slow down and spend time in my bunk reading and it got better. I don't know. It felt like if the more I looked after myself mentally, the better it was. Can I ask you this? Did you do more yoga during that time? No, no, no, no.

I did spend time sort of doing sort of just closing my eyes and doing mindfulness exercises and things like that. and trying to get out of my head, you know, get in my body and out of my head and I found that that made a big difference as well. Because I felt like, it felt like to me, like my brain was losing contact with my left leg. No, so that is exactly the same as me, to the point where I wanted to go and get an MRI and stuff

because I was like, I think I've had a stroke or something because it is exactly that. I was like, my brain is saying do this pattern and the leg is just so slow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I got this adjustment, it was immediate. I tell you why I think it's psychological and not physical, because my legs will do other harder parts. No, but I'm the same.

And the harder parts you need more ankle for, in my case. I could do anything that needed ankle, but as soon as there was one beat in there which needed a whole leg movement, that's what would fuck me. Because I've had it so bad before. I had it so bad on a tour in 2014 or 15 that I hit you up and was like, I don't know if I can carry on with this tour because I basically can't play drums. I know, I remembered.

You wanted to fly me out? Yeah, because I was like, I'm embarrassing myself. here and the rest of my band and it was random it would be I would I would have anxiety about a part in a song and there'd be so much

anticipation leading up to that moment in the song that I would just bottle it every single time so I mean that that's probably in the brain but it was 100% stemmed from something muscular like you fucked it up two nights in a row

and then that's it Oh, I remember I spent, I had like three bad shows in a row, so I spent all day in Italy. I found like a room where I could just have a kick drum set up, set up with my double pedals. Such a bad idea. And I just spent all day practicing the parts and it was fine. I got on stage and I couldn't play anything. And that was when I just totally like, I totally lost it and felt like I couldn't carry on. But see, in my head, that lends itself too muscular because you fucking fatigued yourself playing the parts all day and you can't play anything.

Maybe it's, you know, the truth is somewhere in the middle, isn't it? It's both, yeah, it's probably both. One needs to another or vice versa, you know. I have a thing as well, which is so crazy where if I drop a stick one night, nine times out of ten, the next night I will drop a stick in exactly the same place. Because building up to it, I go, this is the place where I, and then I drop the stick. 100%. Warped Tour in 2013, I reckon I dropped, I think I did nine shows in a row where I dropped a stick in Alpha Amiga. And it was driving me crazy.

It's so weird, isn't it? It's like Tourette. It's like a form of Tourette. Like, this is where I've gone. Drums is a nightmare, man. I always think that playing drums is like being the goalkeeper. Because if a striker misses a striker misses a chance, you let them off. But if a goalkeeper lets it go in between their legs or misses the ball and it goes,

bubbles in, you look like a cunt, don't you? You look like an idiot. So it is, everything relies on you. So just don't stop in the middle of the song like I did. That's, if anyone takes away anything from this podcast, I would say keep playing the song. George Schmidt did that recently. George Schmidt's fucked a fill up and he just threw his sticks on the floor while they're playing, looks Josh James in the eye and goes, my mind is a piece of shit and then

picks his sticks up and then carries on. Yeah, I mean, look, I've said, good dramas fuck up all the time, don't they? I mean, I remember, I remember seeing Brown from Macedon did like a modern drummer thing years ago, and he, and he absolutely bottled it, didn't he? And he's an unbelievable drummer. Yeah, but you know why that is? Because I know why that one happened. He'd done like a long flight or something or there was a problem with the sound or some excuse, wasn't there? The album he was playing along to was not recorded to a click. So he was just playing along to guitars.

Well, yeah, I mean. He got asked to do that last minute. Could have, should have said no, probably. But I remember, I went to see Han Zimmer and his drummer fucked it up big time. No way. Yeah. And he's got, he's going to be good, isn't he? What did he fuck up?

He completely fluffed and stopped for a moment. But do you know what? Do you know what amazes me is what you can get away with though? Because what people don't notice, do they really? It's the biggest thing in the world to you, but no one seems to notice or they care or they've forgotten. I mean, it's amazing what you can get away with. I mean, that was my pep talk to you when you were, no offense to every architect's fan listening. but when you rang me and was like

I need you to fly out because I can't play with a fucking part so I was like one you're tripping two no one knows they're all idiots yeah but then you get people like you sending me YouTube clips of Chris Adler and poor Chris

is probably through being told no one notices but then there's Craig Reynolds you've just dropped me in that I messaged you that to say what's going on here I wasn't going look how shit this is. I was like, that's not what I said. I never said you said he was shit.

That's your own, no, that's your own words. No, I sent you a video saying, fucking have a bang on this. There's something not right there. It was pertinent, wasn't it, to our ongoing crazy leg syndrome discussions. Yeah. There is a video of Chris Adler

not being very good at the drums. and I sent it to Dan because we both suffer from this crazy legs thing and I was like... I mean, I feel for the guy. It's tough, isn't it? And it came out that he has something wrong with his hip from a motorbike accident. Right. Did you see that?

He posted that the other day. I'm going to say I saw Bullet for my Valentine play Redding Festival really, like, you're talking probably 10 years ago. And I don't know. know any of those guys, you know, like, so nothing personal. It's just, I'm just stating a factual thing. And maybe this isn't what happened. Maybe something, maybe something broke. I don't know. But I did notice the kick drum sort of just seemed to get turned off at one point in the set. I think they'd kick that guy out. Yeah, he's not in the band anymore. So, I mean, look,

I don't want to say anything bad about the guy because, you know, he didn't want to be able to, he didn't want to be playing like that for sure, you know, he would love to be perfect. We'd all love to be Mario from Gajira. but yeah so you know human beings is the problem working for human beings and it is stressful and also an element of writing parts that are too hard

yeah it's a stupid game Chris Adler thing I really feel for him because it terrified me because I don't have to play the parts Chris Adler has to play when I'm having a bad day oh it's so tough But if I did, it would sound 10 times worse than that video of him not quite nailing it. Oh, yeah.

Some of the double-kick stuff he does is mad on the records. I mean, yeah, he's giving himself a tough job, for sure. But that's a lesson I've learned to stop doing that. Yeah, I just listen to some stuff now by other people when I just go, yeah, fuck that. Absolutely. Can't be bothered with the anxiety that would give me. Yeah, yeah, it's dangerous. But I'm concerned, Craig,

because this conversation is going to now mean that everyone's going to be listening to us live going, oh, let's see if they screwed up again. No, you think, you would think that, right, but what I found through doing the podcast and other stuff is actually the more honest you are with stuff like this, the more everyone doesn't lie to themselves

that it does happen. And people do actually mess up and not play perfect and have been in the van for X amount of time and haven't eaten food or whatever, blah, blah, blah. It's a part of touring.

But if you don't, if you don't put your hands up and say, look, hey, sometimes I'm shit, then that's when people were like, oh, look how bad he is. I think that extends to all life. Yeah, self-deprecate and then the people can only go up from there.

Just be honest, yeah. I mean, it is the best way to be. people appreciate honesty for sure and yeah for sure probably some people feel glad to hear that

you know we screw up I don't know if that's self-aggrandizing but I certainly feel like people put me on a pedestal as a drummer and I find that hard to take seriously so I got sent like I said I got sent these

the Vic Firth the drum shows stems and the the you know I biff a couple of fills up here and there and uh it took a lot for me not to edit them and I know probably

I know probably a lot of other drummers that have been on the drum show will have edited them so I'm a little bit scared about that but I'm hoping like I just said that people will go people people my assumption anyway when I watch a YouTube video is my

standard assumption is this is edited because everyone does it. So when I see one little mistake, it actually makes me more impressed with the rest because I'm like, hang on, this isn't edited. There's a real bit there, which means all of that other stuff I was assuming is edited is just good drumming.

And also I got Josh to mix it, and when he sent it back, as opposed to my mixed, I was, No, I said, have you edited this? And he was like, no, I haven't touched it. And I was like, why does it sound so much better? And it's just because the mix is better.

So it's like the illusion of it sounding good tightens it up. For sure. There's a part of your brain that's admiring that thing. So it can't be quite so critical over the other stuff. Once you have video into that, I'm fucking laughing. I could just make loads of mistakes. It's like, it's like the media in general, isn't it? just everything, it can be manipulated now.

Information is manipulated, like video is manipulated, pictures are manipulated, and now drum videos are manipulated, and it's a sorry state of affairs, isn't it? Although, you know, I would do it in a heartbeat, so. No, you wouldn't, because you had the choice to do it with your rhythm video and you didn't do it.

Oh, yeah, that was, yeah. But that cut me open, and, yeah, I found that very hard. What, how you actually play the drum? Yeah, I mean, Let's talk about how you feel When you're tracking drums in a studio for an album Or anything

Can you listen back? I hate it, I hate even more When you can see that you're not a program drum When you can see that the kick drum isn't on the line Yeah, it's iconic, isn't it? Really tough I'm getting better at it though, I think I'm trying to give myself pocket

I'm trying to play after the click now Right, well, I mean, forget about that with me. I mean, I just try and get through the song and get home, you know what I mean? Get home to the baby. Yeah, but you're a real drummer. Like I said before, you're a real drummer, so you think about this stuff. You're a real drummer.

I'm just, I tell you what it is. I'm not a real boy. I was probably partying when you were practicing. You were a better drummer than me when you were my drum tech. It was horrific having you as my drum tech. You know, I mean, Fred's a very competent drummer. be fair, but you, you know, you were a much better drummer than me when you were my drum tech. I don't think so playing drums with you watching next to me and you, I could see, literally, I could

see what you were thinking most of the time. I'd go, oh dear, look at him, sad little man sat up there thinking he's the shit, but he's not, he's rubbish and I could do a better job than him, which is mean. No, I think I was always very honest with you. Do you remember the time, I forgot to mention this when we were talking about the good old day. when in Norwich on the last day of the tour with D's nuts and some other people and you made me get drunk before loading or else I wouldn't get paid for the entire tour. Yeah, that was a nice way to end the tour though, wasn't it? It was that good boss is just having a laugh at work.

At work with people. Yeah, that was the last day of a world tour. That was 14 weeks of tour for us, wasn't it? Well, not for you, but for me. Real bad punch someone in the face Remember that? Yeah John Green cried

Bless him It was a big night Everyone had been drinking Since 10 a.m. Yeah, it was ridiculous I mean I mean that venue Waterfront is in it

Absolutely Absolutely It's such a soulless venue Isn't it What were you gonna say What have you changed Do you change No I was gonna say

I was gonna say I was gonna say Solus. Maybe it's not Solus. Maybe we just put a soulless performance on because we've been on tour for 14 weeks. I mean, drinking from 10 a.m. until 10pm when you play we'll make a person soulless.

Yeah, so refunds at point of purchase for anyone was at that show, sorry. Anyone at the waterfront, Norwich, I'll probably see you there next year. Dan, I'll be playing Wembley. Next. What have I got next?

Having a kit, this is going to get a little bit deep now. Yeah, okay, let's go. I can talk about drums, but what are you got? You got a drum kit. You got a drum, let's get the drum bit out of the way. You got a drum kit, see through now. You got a new one.

Yeah, see through. It's just see through by SJC. Oh, okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah. What size is? Go on, people want to know these things.

12, 16, 18, 22. And then like billions of symbols. Chris Ather style. I got all the symbols, yeah, keep adding them. You got them. Little splash, mini-china. Yeah. You've got two splashes now and a china.

Yeah. You add one per album cycle. But now I've got three pads as well. Four pads, actually. Who do you think you are, Danny Carey? It's gotten totally out of hand. I've got so many things to hit. What are you doing with the pads?

I play all the program drum stuff now, or as much fit as I can. and there's a bunch on the album so yeah I just this is why Ali does some key stuff now because I just felt that we needed to have as little on our tracks as we can and play as much as humanly possible amongst the finals

and also it looks cooler on a big stage to be doing more doesn't it? Yeah well I really hated there was a couple moments in the set where it would just be Sam singing with something playing off a computer and I just hated that So, yeah, we implemented this new stuff to try and avoid that happening.

So I saw Ghost recently at Royal Albert Hall. Okay. And you know, they've got loads of, like, choir and stuff like that. Right. The show was great, and I loved it. And it's like my wife's favourite band, so it was a nice night or whatever. But I was very underwhelmed with how much of their stuff was on track. You would think it's like a standout performance.

performance, Royal Albert Hall, you could probably pay a little choir to do all the choir bits and it would give that wow factor. Yeah, for sure. Use the fucking biggest organ in the UK, which was directly behind you for your organ parts. But no, still on track. Yeah, that is a shame. It's a tough one, isn't it? Because, you know, when you're in the studio, you've got these, you can, you know, do whatever you want.

I mean we're super guilty of going all out and this album's probably even more so than the rest so it is tough trying to make it doable you know you don't want to just be playing with the computer do it's not at all you do the opposite for Stray Stray we just Tom told me actually on I messaged the other day

I will never play to a laptop ever and I had to sort of interject and say one day we might need it for the light and also I'm going to play with a click it's going to happen I would hate not to play with a click I must say and I also love the possibilities

that playing to one brings aside from just playing the songs at the right tempo go on well it's just you know a lot of the track stuff I mean it just means that we can it opens up so much so much so many possibilities for us when we're actually writing the songs.

Because, yeah, some stuff might have to be on the laptop because it's not physically possible for all five of us to play it. But it might bring something special to the song. So it's worth it. I mean, we don't have any bits like that. I just mean, from the comfort point of view, when you throw crazy legs and playing 7 BPM faster than you've practiced and being tired into the mix,

It's a recipe for playing badly. So you might as well get rid of one of those things. It's such a, it's a dangerous game, isn't it? Because adrenaline changes your perception of time. 100%. I noticed that at the drum show. It was crazy. There's just nothing you can do about that.

But you can harness it. I've talked about it before in the podcast. Like, at the drum show, it's the first time I've played the stray songs to a click, other than practicing, in front of people. and it felt like they were on a different sample rate they were so slow that I could you know it's like being in the matrix

I had more time to think what was coming next and whatnot because Do you know what I find though I find that I'd lose all groove when that happens Really? I want to race ahead so much that I feel like I mean I'm pretty I'm not really sitting in the pocket anyway

but when I want to race ahead like that I find it painful It is painful What songs do you want to race ahead? Well, if we play a big show, then it's just, I want to race ahead for the first song or two every time. Yeah. And that's why the clicks there to, you know, rein me in.

But it's not just me, it's all the guys. Obviously, all the guys have a click. And there's parts where, obviously, they'll be playing and I'm not. And they have the same struggles. It's just being a human. But I think it's because of a... It's like because of the fight or flight mechanism, isn't it? Because if you want to go, if you have lots of adrenaline

and you're in a dangerous situation, you need your perception of time to slow down. So you can escape. Yeah, so you can assess the situation. Yeah. But you don't need that when you're playing a show. Usually an important show or a big show or whatever. Always a big show.

And I've noticed actually watching bands at big shows. sometimes this is how nerdy I am I will have to check the tempo of something because I'll be watching it and if I'm getting into the show I'm not like at the front rocking you know we had this chat the other day I'm sat in the seats ideally

the I notice their songs seem slow and then I have to check the tempo and then when I get home I check the tempo of the song and they're always the speed of the song but there's just something about the energy of a big room even as a as a viewer, as an audience member,

that makes you think it should be faster. I mean, I get it just listening to Architects song. So if we finish an album and I'm like nervous about it, don't feel it's right or finished, I'll have like this like anxious adrenaline and it will make me perceive the song as being slower. Interesting. It's crazy.

I think if there was a way to like inception style, I mean the click I guess is the way to harness it to to use to use the power that it gives you for good but then you're saying that it makes you lose groove if you try just hitting I mean I'm sure you do but in the drum show if I found that I was going too fast like ahead of the click because I wanted to go faster I just hit even harder

because it slowed me down a little bit sure yeah I mean that's probably yeah it's probably the way to go for sure. I mean, I would like to think, sometimes it does help if there's like a faster double kick bit and I've got a lot of adrenaline and that'll feel easier

and that's good. The problem is when you're like, when you feel hungover or like not particularly excited about the show which, let's face it does happen. Then playing those tougher parts or the faster part suddenly feels like you've added like 15 BPM to the bar

and it's like physically impossible to play. But then without the click when you do the, that without the click, that's already difficult. And then if you're actually playing 5 BPM faster, it's magnified again. Like I remember I had a time when I was feeling really, really just tired, like near the end of a tour. And we played like an Empiricon fest or something. And it was like, you know, 7,000 people, which is, I guess just a normal architect show now.

But for me, that was a big show. And there was like, I was already tired. So I was playing a bit shit. and then we played everything fast because there was loads of people there. And then my drum kit like started falling apart. And it was just, I just played very, very bad. I don't think I've ever played that bad. Yeah.

And I think if I had a click, then at least 20% of the badness would have been gone. The click doth get away with the badness. Exactly, yeah, yeah. You know, that's the age old saying. The age old saying, exactly. I mean, it's standard now, isn't it really? It is. Now you're the odd one out, aren't you?

It used to be, when we first started touring, I didn't really know. It was very unusual for me to see drummers in our genre playing to a clip, but now everyone does and except you, really. I've actually brought, except me, yeah. I've actually bought a new in-ear setup, which is kind of like a budget version of what you guys have so I can control my mix on my phone. but just for me

and it has a Bluetooth receiver so what I've actually done is I've programmed all the songs that I start Tom knows this now I've told him I've programmed all the songs that I start all of our crazy straight from the path tempo changes programmed into a click

to the point where I've referenced live shows that we've played and taken those tempos and I've made maps and I'm going to try it in rehearsals next week and hopefully everyone's going to say, yeah, that felt fine and then it doesn't have to affect anyone except me. Yeah, that sounds like a good compromise. That's my compromise anyway.

Right, that's the drum bit done, I think, I guess. Yeah, that's enough of that. You set me dry. I've got nothing left on the subject. Sorry about that. I don't know anything else. I'm going to try and come on some of those Euro tours like we talked about, and the reason I, actually, the reason that,

other than wanting to see my friends succeed. Obviously, I'll come to Wembley. But the reason I was like, yeah, let's fucking do this, is because Sam told me there was margaritas on the rider now, and I love a margarita. It's probably number one for me. I don't know if I'll be doing any margaritas. I can't do it anymore.

Like I said, I was getting so drunk. I was getting so drunk on that last tour. You should have a margarita afterwards. Yeah. Or you actually. off the margaritas full stop or just a pre-show margarita? The pre-show one's dangerous. I don't drink at all before I play

because it just gives me another thing to be insanely annoyed at myself for if anything goes wrong. It is irresponsible, it is. And I was just, I just did it on that last tour we did to quell my nerves. And it was a bad idea. I don't recommend it to anyone and it makes you

fat and does make you fat, doesn't it? Yeah, it makes you fat and miserable but you know, in moderation. I found out why it makes me absolutely miserable, P.S.

If I get drunk, I rarely get drunk these days but if I get drunk the next day I'm fine, I'm a little bit hung over and then the day after that I'm actually depressed. Yes. I mean, it's a depressant, so that's what it does, but it's not very nice.

I think I've been hung over once in a year and a half because I will not tolerate a hangover because it's a waste of my life. True. So I just refuse to let it, I mean, I've had let it happen once given, but generally it's so, it's so forbidden for me because I do not operate on a hangover. I'm so mad at myself. Last time I... Yeah, the one that did it.

The self-hate, that's what I get. Why have I done this? There's no one to blame. It's October now. So actually, I'm coming up on two years since... So New Year's, not one just got one, not this year. So when we saw 2017 and I went around to Ali's place, I thought... Amelie stayed in and I thought, I'll go out and, you know, it's New Year.

So I'll get a bottle of champagne and I'll just drink a bottle of champagne. And I just had that bottle of champagne and a glass of whiskey. And the next... day, I was still so hung over at 5pm that I cried. I mean, yeah. So I was so mad at myself. Oh, this is how I'm starting the year. Brilliant.

I turned up to Ali's in like a Nike track suit. Are you sure? Just the champagne. I'm sure it wasn't just the fact I'm annoyed at myself that I was hung over. That's why you cried. Quite a lot going on around that time, I imagine. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, but even more reason to feel like, oh,

stop wasting your life, you know? Like, and the thing is about hangover is the last two or three drinks. They didn't add anything to the night. It's just that your decision making so screwed up by that point that you go and do it anyway and then it's too late. And there's no reversing it. And she, you know, vomit as soon as possible. Well, I cried at something mental recently.

I can't remember what it was. Honestly, meant to the point where Katie was like, fuck me, are you all right? I don't even know what it was. Oh, I tell you what it was. Let's tell this on a public broadcast forum. Yeah, go on. Feeling down a bit anyway, I was, about certain things at my hip.

Oh, Royal Mail might have lost my passport, which is fine and stuff now, but just general general warehouse in the warehouse. General stress, yeah. General, like, crippling stress. And then I had 200 T-shirts to... to send out the down with the business too good for you was business going too well i actually was i actually paid katie to pack those t-shirts up but i so i was doing this royal mail online thing which was like to print to print all of the orders and all of the uh all of this like postage so i

didn't have to be the guy in the post office with 200 parcels all of the all of the labels and then a packing sheet as well and like so it'd be easy you just pick it up go right that's for this person they're having a medium or whatever

so Katie could just do it and I was just going to pay I just do that and then I got it wrong and I paid like you know like almost 300 quid for delivery for 200 items and then

I'd got it wrong so I hadn't made the packing list so I had to go through individually everyone's name on a spreadsheet and then find out what t-shirt they had and then write on it and then pick it and just that one error

I'd just and I realized I'd done it and I just cried and then Kate was like what the fuck is wrong with you? I totally understand. It was like all of these other things in my life that it got to that moment and then the Royal Mail tracking

just put me over the edge. Yeah but I totally understand. I get I can be like that for sure. Yeah, but I mean, you've got slightly more... What's the nice way to say this? You've got... You're still within the time frame of...

I imagine you could cry every day if you wanted to, if you thought about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, like, I always... I don't have an excuse, Dan. I just cried for the Royal Mail. Yeah, but the thing is, when we cry about silly stuff like that, We're not really crying about that.

We're crying about something else. It's just found its way out. Because we swallowed it some other time. Yeah, it's definitely, yeah, I'm not crying about Royal Mail. I'm crying about fucking other shit. I got dark. I'm not going to make it darker. We've done the drum bit.

What snare drum did you use on the thing? Because I know you wouldn't have used yours. Oh, for the album? Yeah. Because Nolly loves his snare drums. I'm guessing he made you use one. Yeah. Yeah, it was one of Nollies.

I don't know what it was, though. Come on, Dan. It's a drum podcast. Remember the drum. That's all I want. Then we'll stop talking about drums. Um. Was it, Gretsch Bellbras?

Should I text Nolly? And then if he gets back to me, I'll let him know. I'll let you know. Yeah. So let me take... Do that. Nolly, get good.

Nolly, what snare did we use? You're a fucking... useless bastard. Okay, I'll see what he says. He might, Nolly's not always hot on his phone. Always mixing. Constantly mixing.

It'll be, yeah, neck deep in the next, the next big release. Whatever he's doing. Can't even talk about half the stuff he's doing. Sorry about that. So, that's all right. So he'll hopefully get back. If not, I'm going to put it at the beginning of the podcast.

Your show notes, right? You put it in the show notes. That's what they say, isn't it? Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I've got the two questions at the end that I always do. But I was going to ask on a bit of a more spiritual vibe. Sure. Where are you at spiritually with having a daughter affected you?

You're quite a spiritual guy, Dan. We haven't really delved into it on this. But you're one of the most... You and your wife and Tom were like, you know, some of the most spiritually minded people that I know. Does that change? Having a child?

Yeah. I would say it... It shifts your perspective in a big way. And I have found that... I'm not going to go into this too deep, but I have found that it brings up a lot of stuff from your own childhood. Difficult stuff. You know, it's a weird thing when you first have to sit with your child crying

and you can't do anything about it, you know. It's a strange experience because it's a lot of responsibility, obviously, but there is a vulnerability to a child that is terrifying, but also horribly familiar, I have found. Is it like, no, that's just disrespectful. It's interesting to be reminded where we all came from, I found. It's like jogs something from your deep-rooted memories. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Is it like the second time you do mushrooms? I think for my daughter life is, I think of what's her experience is being something like doing mushrooms when you're sort of experiencing things for the first time and your brain is constantly developing your perspective. It is, I mean, God knows what that is like. But yeah, for me, I've just, I've found that it's made me, um, really. look at myself in a different way because children are sponges and it forces you to be honest about who you are and it forces you to assess who you want to be and then you obviously have to take the steps to move towards that because those things don't happen on their own and unless you do work you're just going to continue being the same person that you are and suddenly

And that will rub off on them. Yeah, the stakes are so much higher because, you know, you've got things that you don't like about yourself in terms of the way you behave in certain situations that you don't want your child to inherit that. And they will. And it's not enough just saying you don't want them to, you don't want to be a certain way. You know, you can tell your child that things, that they should behave a certain way. But ultimately, they'll learn by observing that, you know, it doesn't matter. If you carry on being the way you are, that's what they will learn. It's crazy how much you are your parents.

Like, I am my dad. Like, I'm just my dad in a different body. And luckily my dad is an absolute legend, so it's fine. But if he wasn't, and I'm sure there's some traits that I've picked up of him that aren't great. Yeah, you pick it all up, good and bad, right? You know, you pick up all of it. So for me, it's been like, it's been a balance of trying to be, learn to be a good dad, but also having to be brutally honest about who I am and thinking about how I need to change in order to be a better dad.

So I don't want to talk about this too much because it's so clickbaiting. And I remember when you did the damn Daniel Picard one, there was some fucking clickbait, idiocy things. But you said to me, when I ask you, what's it? like having a kid. You said it helped you cope with a lot of stuff about Tom. And I never really asked you. Like what? Well, for me, I mean, there's obviously a beautiful sort of cyclical thing here for me,

going from losing Tom to two years later, having Zephy. And it... She was nearly born on the day. Yeah, we thought she was going to be born. We thought she was going to be born on the 20th, yeah. But she came five days later. My wife was having contractions for six days, which is insane. Rough.

Yeah, it's very tough, but women are extremely strong. And she got through it. But that's an entirely different story. But yeah, it's funny, but it's interesting to me, the topics of life and death because we can't fully understand either. And although we obviously as humans have all sorts of different ideas and some of us feel certain about these ideas, although it is impossible to truly be certain of them,

it's just an interesting glimpse into those two events. you know, for me, for me it was so hard to look beyond Tom dying. I couldn't imagine the world beyond Tom dying of what that looked like. And I was, I was obsessed with keeping him alive, you know, and I was just focusing on that. And so once I was then thrown into this world without him, it just felt like it felt so alien, you know. It's like your life's turned upside down. and it was the same with birth, you know. You just, I find, I've noticed that people become obsessed with the birth.

And I totally get it. I mean, I was, you know, because you can't look beyond it because you, it's, you don't know what that looks like. So are you talking about during it or after it? The birth. Yeah. Or are you talking about before it? The whole pregnancy, you just can't look.

I just couldn't look beyond the birth. And so that, that's the day, isn't it? That's the big day. And you, and I don't, I couldn't even imagine what life looked like with a child. And just, you know, just like losing Tom, there's an adjustment period where you transition into this new reality and it's super disorientating and strange. But I found parallels constantly between the two experiences. Obviously, the ultimate outcome of both is the opposite, because on one hand, I lost someone

I love. On the other hand, I've gained someone I love. So the outcomes are totally opposite. but in terms of the... But they're so opposite that then very nearly the same thing, I know what you mean. It's funny.

It's like there being a fine line between love and hate, there's a fine line between birth and death. It's so profoundly similar at times. And it's in a part, you know, on face value, it doesn't seem very nice to draw the comparison.

But in my experience, there was so many moments with pregnant, and birth that took me back to Tom and what we went what I went through with him but I mean both of those experiences is just like

constant lessons about life's a lot to go through in two years if I'm honest mate fuck me it is it is definitely but you know like I said earlier in this podcast that there's there's no the great of the challenge

the great of the reward and losing Tom and going through having lost him was an unbelievable challenge, the greatest challenge I've ever been through. That's a strange way to put it because a challenge suggests you're working towards something. I suppose I was working towards, and I still am in a sense, living in a world that Tom isn't in. But of course, I have tried to use that experience as one that leads me, you know,

into living a better life ultimately. And it's easy, isn't it, to get, to lose your way in that because it's so hard. And there are times when I didn't feel like that. But my ultimate faith, sorry, not faith, my focus was to move into a life where I could live better and feel like I had a better understanding of myself. and but that's an ongoing process and I found that having Zephy has been the same. Everyone tells you being a parent is hard. Of course it's hard because having a child is amazing.

You know, it's yin and yang of life, isn't it? You don't get something that amazing without it being difficult. And just as it is unbelievably beautiful and joyous in moments, it's also unbelievably difficult and challenging in others. And, you know, that's just life. But I reminded myself constantly, especially in the first. two weeks of Zephy's life where it was more challenging and you're transitioning into that new reality that yeah this is hard but that means it's going to be amazing you know and i find

you want the rainbow you want the rainbow you got to put up with the rain it's just life you and i think it's important to remember that i found it's i found you know like writing an album it's tough it's hard it's tiring it's draining but the more you put into it the more you get out you know and it's just like you you you want to be a great drummer or whatever whatever you got to put in the time, you know? And that's, you don't, you won't get out. It's lucky you don't put in any time with that, because then you can just be a great dad.

But, but, but you know what? Like my energy, my energy has just been diverted elsewhere, you know, so I'm more involved in the songwriting and I wrote the lyrics and, I worked on your time where you're practicing. You've done your time. I worked on the vocals of Sam and, but you know what, like, everything, the band is like, I'm, I'm such a, um, the band is like, is, it's, it's a,

lot of work for me because, and I don't want to go on it about, I'm not moaning, it's great work, but I'm involved in every aspect of the band, because I've always run the business side of the band and, you know, the finances and I also deal with our merchandise and I also, you know, plan logistical stuff about how our album cycle is going to play out with our manager. You're the second manager. Yeah, so I have a hand in all of that as well as the creative side. So there, there's a lot of, there's a lot for me to deal with and it is a lot of work, but, you know, I, I want the band to be a success and I know that the more I put into it, the more I'll get out, you know, so it's fine, fine by me. I don't, I don't mind doing the work. It's, a given,

like, it's difficult sometimes because you can get too bogged down in it and you can overwork, and that, that is a risk, especially when you're so, you know, obsession is not a good thing and I do sort of cross that line all the time. Um, but fortunately, Amelie will tell me when I'm doing it for the most part and I can take a step back. Good grounded woman. She is. But... Shout out Amel again.

Yeah, shout out Amel. Because I would be a wreck without her. She used... She's actually well annoyed. Pearl reference brass join tracking. Nice, yeah. But it is mixed with a sample. We don't tell everyone that.

They're going to think it's fake. It's always mixed with a sample. With a maypex wraith snare. The Matt Halpern's snare. All right. I mean, and the snare sounds unbelievable. It does. The Doomsday snare.

I mean, you know, I tweeted it's as iconic as misery business. And that tweet went viral. So, you know, that's... Just an example of the importance of that snare drum. The importance of the snare drum, yeah. I think, Dan, that's it. I mean, I'm going to ask you what your top five bands are. Right.

Because that's sort of a thing that I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, big time. And I... Yeah, yeah, top five bands. Right, top five bands. I did have a thing about this last night. Yeah, I pre-prepared you for this. Yeah, I did have a think about it last night.

So what you do is you do like from fifth, least favorite to first, absolute favorite. Oh, you don't have to give me the sort of the, the, the, cutting floor. I just want to know five bands that you really like. Well, number one is tall. Yeah. Agreed.

And their best album is Latterales. Agreed. Do you think that the new one's going to, A, ever happen or B, actually be good? Do you think they're sitting on it because it's actually a bit shit? It's going to be really interesting, isn't it? I mean, it's going to happen.

It's out next year. It is out next year. It's for sure out next year I mean Because Yeah I'm I'm sure they're touring next year Oh you know something You nearly just let something slip

Okay To all that's fine I've got a feeling they're touring next year But You just Do you know what they are That'll be on lamb goat now Yeah

Well I don't know I'm just guessing Architect's drummer kind of announced is tool tour I don't know I've just heard some people say oh they might be

touring because they've got I mean like Maynard's said Maynard said isn't he said oh yeah working on vocals and all that

I mean it's pretty obvious if they're tracking vocals now they're going to tour next year next question look but we've had our entire career architects since 10,000 days came out

literally we've released we're gonna eight albums so it's overdue just do one That's why I think is actually just a bit shit

And they've just been like Fuck me, we can't release that right Just over-hype it It's strange, I can't understand Like you could ask They need to do an architect They grab Josh Get him in a fucking room

Be like, oh he Sound like tall Now Yeah Josh could sort out a tall album for sure A hundred percent And it would sound like tall And people In fact we should do that

We should get Josh to write A fake tool album and then leak it because it would be so funny. Even do the vocals probably be fine. Yeah, probably be great at it. Right, number one, tool. Shout out to Josh, you're the fucking most talented person I've ever met in my life. Next.

You're trying to make up for earlier? Yeah, I'm 100,000. I am. It's true. It's true. Josh, I love you. I want to suck your dick. Go, next. So yeah, Danny Kerry, big influence for me. That's about drumming, isn't it? Oh, yeah, well done. He taught me about odd time signatures and stuff. Yeah.

Same, though. First time I heard Lateralis doing my maths homework in year 10, I think. So did he teach you to count to seven? Listen to this. Very funny. No, I just remember I was doing that homework and then someone was like, listen to this. And I was like, wow, this is the best thing I've ever heard. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

But the theme with most of these bands that I'm going to mention is that they're all bands that I've liked since I was about 14. Yeah, I think I went to see. I went to see Tall at Brickson Academy when I was And they were touring lateralis I can't remember how old it was 14 or 15

But yeah Lovely band Yeah So Lovely is such a strange adjective to use Lovely band Oh Tall

Lovely band Yeah they are lovely band Um So Is that a new thing Lovely I tell you. It's really funny

because it's like saying something's nice. Oh, too. Yeah, they're nice. Yeah, maybe. Lovely is really funny. We should do that. That should be the next in-joke. It's just saying stuff that's very good is lovely.

It's lovely. So the next lovely band. Yeah, what's your next? Top five lovely bands. Top five lovely bands. I feel like I'm going to have forgotten bands in this, but my next one would have to be deaf tones. Lovely.

They are lovely. Because they were big for all of us, weren't we, when we were young. I mean, not even young. Not even young. Now still, that's the point, isn't it really? That's why they're still one of my favourite bands. Yeah, but what's the most lovely death tones album to you?

Such a tough question, isn't it? What was the question I asked again? What's the most loveliest? The Loveliest Deathstone's album. Most lovely. Most lovely. It's got to be lovely pony, surely. Lovely pony is probably it.

But you know what? The first song me and Tom ever played together on a stage was be quiet and drive. I was going to try and work lovely in. So it's overkill, isn't it? Yeah, we played that together on the stage together, a scout hut. We killed it. It was insane.

We learned all the drums. learn away bits of MX tabs and absolutely crushed every single fill and it's pretty easy isn't it, let's face it, but so that that's probably still my favourite song like that's actually, I reckon

but I love the self-titled as well and then when they came back with diamond eyes and stuff I felt like there was a break there maybe it wasn't, I just wasn't that into Saturday night wrist but then yeah that diamond eyes was lovely and the one with a funny name after that was good as was lovely as well.

Great band, you know, unique, all that. Next band. Next band, let's go. Next band I am going to pick is Siguross. Nice, lovely. I mean, the problem is they're actually lovely. Yeah. You could say lovely for them

and not bat an eyelid. Yeah, again, a band I like for a long, I've never seen them live, But I've listened to it. I remember doing like preparing for my GCSEs listening to him when I was... Drummer spots available.

Is he left? Pretty bad. Did a naughty. What did he do? No, you fucking... Should we not talk? Huh? Well, no.

We can talk about it. It's a news thing. I think you rape someone. The Sigur-Ross drummer. Dan Sells's third favorite band, Sigur Ross. The rapists. Really?

Yeah. The drummer did anyway. But you're not listening to Siguross for the drums, are you? No, it's Jonsi's lovely voice and all the lovely ambient stuff. I should clarify here, following rape allegations he quit at the beginning of this month. Right. Yeah, you don't want to be done, do you? No.

Yeah, I'm washing hands out. I don't have anything about it, so next. Lovely band, still release great albums. Back. Shame about the drums. Same. Shame about the drama. Lovely band.

Shame about the drama. Next. Unrelevant. Next. Next. Next. 1975 is right up, right at the top, near the top. Oh, that's a newcomer.

Yeah, they're the only one that's a newcomer. But they just have like such, such sentimental significance to me because me and Tom listened to them a lot together when he was unwell. And so, yeah, they just have a lot. There's a lot of sort of emotional. baggage attached to them but I still listen to them very fondly

they are great as well they're a great band the drummer's great as well which is unusual and I just at risk of sounding pretentious they're one of the few

very successful pop acts that I think have real artists in the band yeah and have people in the band that want to take risks and that's that's really cool and actually I find them although they're very different to us I find them very very inspirational I always find

myself wanting to write music after after listening to them so yeah they're right up there lastly another British band uh Biffy Cliro actually really I did not know that about you yeah I love Biffie I bought their first album the day it came out when I was a wee boy. And, yeah, I'm after that, Vertigo Bliss, loved that. One after that Infinity Land, I skipped out on that one for some reason. I loved that one. Loads of people love that one, yeah.

I don't know why I never listened to it, but then I came back in at Puzzle, loved it, only revolutions loved it. One after that, opposites, absolutely loved it. Didn't really listen to the last one so much for some reason. Although I did listen to it a bit and there are some good songs on it. But yeah, I just, yeah, just a band I've always loved and think they write great songs. And again, like a big pop rock act that also, you know, do weird stuff and play with time signatures and don't sort of take the easy routes to success. So I've got a lot of time for that.

And yeah, great band, great band. Infinity Land, I have great memories of that album. That was like, I just left school when that came. out. Yeah, I only know one song that I think it's glitter and trauma, yeah, which is a good song. That song's banging. And the intro before it is like kind of weird version of that song. They were at the time, that was when they were just blowing up and it was like technically not pop, but they were getting pop airplay.

And they were doing some weird, freaky timing stuff, probably also influenced by tall. Yeah. And now look at them. Yeah. Do you know what? I used to take solace in their sort of career trajectory because it took them a while really to properly... Fucking ages.

I think it was album four or something where they really blew up. And I think in architects, we felt like we had missed the boat so many times because, I mean, we're about to release our eighth album. It's ridiculous. I was watching that back and forth food fighters documentary the other day. And they're like, oh, you know, we're getting in the studio to record our eighth album. or something. I've made with seven,

what was the album they did on that one? Can't remember what the album's called. I don't care about them, so I don't know, I'm sorry. Well, well, yeah,

they were going to record whatever album, a seven-for-eighth album. Another fucking steaming hot, mediocre pile of diarrhea music. I quite liked that album. No, I'm joking.

I'm just, being a drum teacher, it's like the first thing that all the parents want to say they're into, being a drum teacher with tattoos, it's like the first thing all the parents are like, yeah, oh yeah, have you heard the new foos? And I'm like, fuck, I'm listening to Cannibal Corps, motherfucker.

Well, food fighters were the second band I ever liked. Food Fighters are cannibal corpse, like, gateway drug. And, yeah, the first few Fu Fighters albums are incredible. And I'm sure they're good music now. Me and Tom just listened to Nevermind for about a year. That's the only album we listened to for about a year. It was the first album we liked. And then our dad sort of...

Oh, drummer's got a band. No, our dad did. Our dad went, this, enough's enough. Here's the first two Foo Fighters album. He's the drummer of Nirana. Just listen to that for fuck's sake, put something else on. So given that, that I was like 12 when I got those albums, and I'm watching that documentary about them,

releasing, recording that the seventh album. I think they've done one since. So we've done, like, the same amount of albums. He's utterly ridiculous. Food Fighters have done the same amount of albums as you Something like that Let's say, I'm just gonna Can I verify this?

Foo Fighters It's just on the internet Just gotta go You just scroll down And that's You go No This is dead air

But just hold up Because Mate, it's full of dead air You edit this out anyway, don't you? No, I don't at all And I actually had some guy hit me, hit me up, hit me. Some guy hit me up and was like, do you want me to edit your podcast? Because, you know, you say, I'm an R and a lot and all that shit.

I'm going to do that. I'm, God knows how much I've done that. It's going to be awesome. And then I was like, no, I'm not going to edit it because I like the flow of the conversation and I don't, I can't afford to pay you and I don't want to make someone work free. But I did a podcast the other there. I won't say who it's with because I'm not sure if that's going to come out after

this or before it. But the audio was so. bad I had to get this guy, Lucas, to fix it for me. Because I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. And I think he's, he's like edited the ums and the R's out, which I don't really want. But there you go. Better quality. I mean, the operation's going to...

I mean, this is two hours long. This one. This is the longest one, yeah. We've got to wrap this up. You've got to fucking count these... Count the Food Fighters albums and we'll be done. They got nine. We're about to release like eight.

Their first one came out in 1995. I was eight. now I'm 31 on Tuesday That's a real long A real long time between albums To just do nothing Except break your leg And then still play guitar

Or get a kid up on stage to play something He needs a bit of bad press He needs a bit of like Dave Smoke's crack in the back of a taxi Not something really bad Not like a fucking You know

Just something that's real edgy Like he gets caught just doing a line of coke off a stripper. Yeah, he seems like a nice bloke, doesn't he? I mean, you can tell that he can be cut for it when he needs to be, though. Yeah, but I feel like I need some dirt from Dave. I need to be like this, you know, I need an affair, a coped up affair with a drag queen. Why is it that you want to destroy nice people, Craig?

No, I want to relate to them. And I need him to, you know, do cocaine off a drag queen's asshole For me to relate to him, apparently, you know? Do you know, he, they, food fighters were at the Crang Awards this year and, um fucking drinking tea, sat down. Oh, yeah, I'm very rarely taken aback. I suppose you call it Starstruck, whatever that means. I'm very rarely taken aback by an individual's presence.

Dave Grohl was someone I was like, oh yeah, that is Dave Grohl, that's nice, yeah. He is, you know, all jokes aside with me wanting him to fall from grace, he is an absolute legend. Yeah. Even if he'd stopped at Nirvana, he'd be a legend. In fact, it'd probably be more of a legend to me. I mean, never mind is still, just unbelievable.

I listened to it yesterday, yeah, still listen to it. Unbelievable, yeah. So nice one, Dave. Nice one, Dave, you're not listening to this, but you are a drummer, so maybe you will and you'll never come on here because I said that I think you should do cocaine. No, on episode 1,000,

it'll be Grohl and Taylor Hawkins. I met Taylor Hawkins, but I was looking for Dave Grohl in all honesty. I heard that Dave Grohl was at a festival, but it was actually Taylor Hawkins. Someone had messed up in the grand scheme of things of figuring out who was the actual food fires drummer.

That's a boring story to end on. Let's end on that boring story. Have you got anything to plug? You've got an album coming out. That's coming out. And it's going to be really great. Yeah. Give us a plug.

Give me a little sound bite. Yeah, we've got a new album called Holy Hell, and it's out on November 9th. And people should buy it, shouldn't they? I mean, or stream it or whatever, I guess. Do you think it'll go to number one? I think it's going to go to number one, Dan. Well, in England?

In England. No, Mews are releasing an album the same day. The only place we could get number one. one is Australia. We could have got a number one in Australia. Can't you pick a different day? Too late now, isn't it? We could have got a number one in Australia on the last one,

but Flume released an album the same day. Who? Who? Smokes us as well. Flum, he's an Australian electronic artist. Oh, he's Australian. Yeah, so... Oh, Mews have fucked that, haven't they?

We're not going to get number one in England, they forget about it, yeah. Who else got... I reckon it'll be number two, though. Yeah, but no, it'll be, you know, like that Hugh Jackman soundtrack of that musical movie he did which sells like a billion albums a week still

and sort of now 2018 are the greatest showmen honestly it's like the best selling album of the year or something just the songs from the movie the fountain the doomsday videos like the fountain so fucking jog on Hugh because you're already technically in the charts

put your album out doomsday's you as well bro I'll have a word with them but yeah I mean, it's very hard to, yeah. I mean, look, I'm sure the album too well, but I don't think we're going to get number one, no, sadly. All right, well, I guess we'll leave it there. Pessimistic note.

It's been of absolute pleasure. I love you. You're one of my favorite people on Earth. Yeah, likewise. And, you know, I've admitted that I cried over the Royal Mail. That's fine. And, you know, we've all had a nice time. We had a nice time.

we got the snare drum in so that's drum so buy that snare drum if you're into that stuff brilliant mic it up you'll sound just like the album yeah all buy an s j c one whatever you want just yeah just all equal and um i'll speak to you we're going to say buy now but then you're actually going to stay on the phone the buy is actually to the computer we're just going to stop and all right we'll just talk about you sending me the files okay cool let's do that okay so this is the fake Bye, okay. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye, Dan. It's been great to speak to you. Bye. Yeah, see you later, Craig.

Nice one. Bye, mate. Bye.