The Downbeat - Holding Absence (Lucas Woodland + Ashley Green)

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

My guests this week are Lucas Woodland + Ashley Green of Holding Absence. We talk about our previous beef, their band, making music, touring, and we have both TWO TRUTHS AND A LIE and also A DREAM FESTIVAL.

What's up, guys? Who is up right now holding their absence? That's right. My guests on the podcast this week are Ash and Lucas of holding absence. I was going to say metalcore band holding absence, but is it really metalcore? I guess it's metalcore adjacent. It's very nice. Checked history between me and holding absence, which we get into immediately on the podcast.

but we have a great chat about their band, about their rise to success, about touring the state, about loads of stuff, a bit of mental health sprinkled in there. It was a great little chat, thanks for them for coming by. Before we get started,

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Display.com. Listeners of the Downbeat podcast can get 22% off 1 to 2 displays or 33% off 3 or more at Displate.com forward slash the downbeat and use the code, Downbeat. It's Lucas Woodland. Ashley Green of Holding Absence on the Downweek podcast. Absent!

Yeah. We made it. We made it at last. How is everyone? Yeah, good. Good, yeah, yeah. Would you like to hear, I never do this, right? Would you like to introduce yourself and what you do in the band?

My name's Lucas and I sing for Holden Absent. Ash and I play drums in Holden Absence. How come you're Welsh and you're not? That's mad that you already know that. That's crackers. What do you mean? I already know it. I can hear the two voices.

Yeah, true. So Holden Abses is a weird band because none of the members now in the band were in the band at the beginning. That's all my question, so ruin that for me. Okay, sorry. Go, ruin that. But Ash is the longest standing member in the band.

That makes sense. Yeah, you've been in the band, the longest, I guess. But we were all in a band before this, the four of us kind of back in like 2012 or whatever. And Ash was basically, Ash was a fan. of our old band. Our drummer broke his hand punching, drunkenly punch in a fucking restaurant sign because he was arguing with his misses. And then, like, yeah. And then, you know, like big, oh my God, like we got a tour coming up, you know, and it was like he broke his hands. We were like,

who on earth can drum and knows our songs? And then Ash, the guy from... And not be quite violent when they're drunk. Yeah. Yeah. And then Ash was like our mate off Twitter, basically. And then that band split up, old nabs and started. Ash joined Holden Absence and then slowly we kind of took members from the old band and replaced the... Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Kind of convoluting. It is like a little revolving door of action.

Yep. Of people like, I'm going to come to it because I've got questions about that. But like... But where are you from originally? I'm from Northamptonshire. So what doesn't count as North? That's like just before you get to North. Yeah.

Yeah, Midlands. It's mad because, so I was born and grew up in Northampton. I lived in Oxford for a little while. And I moved to Nottingham. And then I literally moved to Cardiff to join the band. That's funny as well, because we must have, like, done this. Yeah. What years were this?

Because I'm from, like, between Oxford and Reading originally, moved to Reading, moved to Reading, moved to Nottingham. Yeah. Moves to Scotland. Oh, yeah, you were in Nottingham in 2014. Yeah, I moved to Nottingham in 2013. And then I think it was like January, 2016 was when I joined the band. Yeah.

But I was still in university in 2014. 2016. So mid-2016, I was like, well, I finish university and I'm just going to move to Wales and join hold an absence. Fuck here. What did you do at uni? Media. Media. Degrade? Yeah. What's the official title? I think it's a bachelor's in like creative media or something. The blackiest out of it. Yeah. I have a degree as well. We're like, we're educated people. What's your degree? Just popular music. I've got a degree of music as well. Have you contemporary music. So here we are. Three bachelors. So I'll host the podcast

as the media aficionado. I mean, you did come in kind of hot with a podcast hosting presence. Look at that. That is strong, man. I do interviews way more than him and I feel a bit intimidated. Anybody at language experts tell us what those elbows on the table mean. It's a bit guarded, but it's not.

I mean, because we have beef, so... No. We do have beef. No, not anymore. Do you want to squash the beef now? Yeah. I mean, we squashed it anyway. Yeah. We were like, surely he's going to bring it up. Oh, fucking immediately.

And then we'll get on to Zildian symbols and then we'll get on to fucking singing and all of that stuff. What happened? I can't even remember. Let's hear your version of events and then we'll hear mine. Okay. So I think the, because we were talking about it last night, already my heart is like, by the way, Ash is a patron of the Downbeat podcast.

He was saying, in the back cave right now. He was saying he was a fan. But then he sat on the table. like that so I'm like fan or enemy I was like maybe you're doing like some weird like you know like a

Korean revenge movie where they're like I'm going to infiltrate I'll be the biggest fan I'll get in that room I'll just stab him to death so it was 2020 right it was 2020 and it was COVID

so everyone's like everyone was in that weird space but um it was the we were talking about it last night but I think the it stemmed from stray doing the

BLM shirt and then someone guy trying to come at you be like, can you do one in the UK? And you were like, nah. He came for me harder. Yeah. Let me, let's this fact, fact check this. Wasn't a BLM shirt? It was a defunded Minnesota police. Oh, okay. I want to make that distinction. Yeah. It was two kids that were complaining about the postage. The postage. Yeah. And I did go pretty hard on them. Yeah. And then what happened? And then a friend of mine put up like a dumb tweet of being like, oh, Craig Reynolds on the internet again.

and like and it was a baby crying yeah and then and then holding absence retweeted it no no so they the page liked it

someone screenshoted that thing on the profile of the band liking it and then sent it to you and then that was when we had beef and then I I shared that

yeah because I didn't know what it was about I was like it's weird because this was like the day after George Floyd yeah I was like

are holding absence saying that I'm being a baby by being annoyed about this thing so I'd be You were talking about the, I mean, they were talking about the merch thing. Yeah.

I thought you were talking about the other massive fucking thing. I was like, oh, I didn't know. These guys were white power. And there was a whole thing. But Faisal liked it too. He was out for a bit. We squashed that beef. I, you know, I'm insufferable on the internet.

I get it. It was just funny. But then you hit me up. I'm a sandbag in these situations, man. I was like, ah, Ash, let me jump on the hand grenade. But you can... And then I was like... Go on.

I see all those are first. Is everyone okay? Yeah, yeah, okay, good. Yeah, yeah, we're good. So basically, yeah, I was like, oh, for fuck's sake, Ash is like the fucking stupid tweet of the band account. And now it's like interlinked with, like, being white surprises. So I was like, come on.

And we're like very outspoken. Yeah. Same as you guys, you know, like super like leftist, and very outspoken about a lot of stuff. So it was like, oh, my God. And like, basically I was like, right, I'm the mouthy member of our band, right? So I was like, I'll just completely like,

just put my hands up and be like, super sorry. It was an accident. Genuinely sorry. Sorry, basically. And then I'll never forget. I went for a run. You know what it's like? It's like COVID depressed, trying to lose weight,

miserable, going for a run, put my phone in my pocket, you know, boom, but boom, come back an hour later. I look, Sam Carter, Jesse from Stig, the bassist is a dock loose. Everyone's just dog pie. me and I'm just like, all my favorite bands hate me. No, we squashed it, though. I've got to say, the one thing that fuck increases me is,

because we weren't sure, because we were like, the thing is, on our end as well, there was never any beef because, like, we don't, you know, it's just like, it was me, I'm just fucking, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny. Yeah, and like, but we did Blue Ridge together, right? And we'd not seen you since, I don't think. Yeah.

But I know you and Ash had kind of like, you know, touched base, and it was kind of cool. It wasn't whatever. But I, like, I didn't really know where it was in the public forum. And I was like, oh man, you know, it won't be awkward, but like, might it be awkward. I'll never get, we were watching you guys. I'm just stood next to Ash. And Ash just starts walking on stage.

I was like, oh, no, he's going to tackle Craig to the ground. He fixed my symbol. And then he just came over, fix the symbol, walked off. And I was like, I think that's the squashing. That was a moment. That was a moment, wasn't it. But there wasn't any beef anyway, because I was, oh, it's Ash, what's up, Ash? And then I remember, I was like, oh, wait a minute.

You told me something in your apology. And then we'll get off this. you said sorry Ash was meant to do that off his burner account did I say that or maybe so what I need to know is do you have a burner account

no no no no no no no no was that you just putting out of fire any cloth to put on the fire now I think it was more like wrong account I guess but don't don't worry he isn't that one private quote retweet on every fucking

do you know what after that whole thing I had someone hit me up really recently I obviously forgot about all that. You know what it's like on Twitter. I say some mad shit and I just go, fuck it. And then I like, it's gone. I don't mean half the things I fucking say on Twitter anyway. And then someone hit me up like,

I just want you to know you were really right about that merch postage thing. And I was like, I'm sorry, what are we talking about here? And he's like, oh, in the pandemic, right? And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Three years ago, yeah. Okay, we're good. Thanks. I was fucking right.

Thanks for coming on the downbeat. Thanks for having us. I'm sorry if that was awkward, No, no, no, no, no. We, we, we, I feel like we know you well enough to know that that was just the, the, going to be the, in a good way. We were like, because it's just like, get it fucking sorted, man. Yeah, but, uh, thank you for having us though.

Yeah, we really appreciate it. Thanks for coming. We were trying to do it for a minute. I appreciate you coming down. Double, double whammy as well. Love a double wabble. Yeah, I know. I've got a question for that.

We might as well go straight in on it. What were you going to say, Mr. Media, man. You open your mouth. I think my favorite episodes are the other double whammy ones. Really? Yeah, the outful one, the stack. one. I listen

I've listened to get a like three times. Do you know what? That's one of my favour's but I feel like this is going to be

one of my phases as a vibe. It's a good vibe. The thing about these ones that sucks, the setup is so much harder to do to get, as you saw,

just get everyone in. If you're just listening to this, fuck you. But listen to all of the ads that Spotify puts in, please, I'll take that money. So it's YouTube here,

right? Which is funny because, I mean, I guess you're the only two that I really know from the internet anyway. But I noticed something.

Greatest Mast of my life. Yep. Writing credits. Mm-hmm. There's a lot more other names. You got Faisal from Love. You got Dan Weller, a producer.

Yep. I recorded my first album with Dan Weller. No shit. Yeah, Viatchery. Yeah, he made me do... The tech metal master. Top and bottom. Did he make you do top bottom?

Yeah. Fuck. Do you like it? Yeah, so... It was weird to watch, though. Through the door. He's like... You liked it.

I like the end product. Yeah, I like the end product. But if anyone doesn't know what we're talking about, we're talking about when... the producer records all the shells of the drums and then all the symbols is two separate takes more than two fucking takes. And it allows you to get no symbol bleed or whatever.

It takes fucking forever. Did you find it hard to do? I think the first song I did, I was like, oh, this is weird. But then, it's weird because it was the first, for me it was very much like that was the first full album that we recorded. The first album we did in like two separate parts.

We kind of did a first half and then we recorded the second half of the first album in like two very separate time periods. So car crash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I thought it was, it was banging.

Really? We were in Middle Farm and I was like, the vibe is high. It was so good. So did they mute the symbols while you played? Or did you just no symbols? No, we put towels over the symbols. Yeah, so you'd still playing everything. And then...

Oh, no. So it was like right hand on the thigh. And you enjoyed that? It was so good. Yeah. So weird. Yeah. I fucking...

But you were such a good. groovy player. Like, I can imagine that would be really hard. Yeah. I think it, it... It's not even my question, by the way. I've got a different question, but it's all good. I don't know. It just, when we were doing it and I was listening to the songs, it was more like,

it was definitely like song serving, playing, which I liked at the time. It's great drum mix. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the mix on that album gets like real plaudits, man. Yeah. He's got a writing credit on there. He's got a writing credit on there. New album? Yeah. That's how I'm wrong.

Yeah. Most of the writing credits are you two. Oh, no. Good job, bro. If you go on... If I've just unleashed something here, sorry we can cut it out. If we go on the writing credits, it says you two. That's mad.

That's mad. I know nothing about that. PRS day tomorrow as well. It is, I know. It's like Christmas. Well, to be fair, basically what we do with Holden Absences, we split all the royalties four ways. Yeah.

So Ash has got credits for all the songs. generally though if you don't mind me saying on your behalf like it is more so like me and Scott do most of the writing and then we kind of take I guess because one thing that's really important I think it's really cool doing this actually because it's like Ash is like the secret weapon of our band like when you come and watch us live it's like it's like Ash is like a front man you know it's like the energy is insane and like you said about the split in the symbols with the shells thing like a big thing that we've we've I don't know if we perfected it particularly,

but it's like something that we always try and pull through is like getting Ash's like personality into the music. Yeah, that's what I meant. Like maybe I just thought it would be hard to do that with Top Kit, Bottom Kit, because when you see it. But I think it's like walloping the fucking... Yeah, given like 100% drums and 100% symbols. So you get like...

Yeah, yeah. Did you do the new record like that as well? No, so ironically, we were like, right, that was cool, but then we were like to try and capture Ash in the same way, but in a different method, let's do it normal so we can really, like, lash the stuff. So some of those fills are like, you know, like real.

Whereas I think like, you know, it's like trying to left brain, right brain it is, I think maybe, like you said, about servicing the songs with the Grits mistake, there wasn't much like crazy intricacies on the drums because we were servicing the song. Whereas with the noble art, it was like, because of the way we're tracking it,

like, let Ash just rip, you know? Where did you track it? In Canada in a place called Jukasa Studios. Really? Who's the producer? With Dan again. Yeah. So he flew out.

Is he there now? Because I remember he was in like Thailand for a bit. No, he did the, he did the end of Shikari album in Thailand. Why? I think that's the one you're on about. But no, basically we were like, it sounds really stupid, but a big part of our career is just like we're overly earnest. We're all very like, oh, like could split up tomorrow. Like enjoy it, you know?

And like, basically with Sharp Tone, it was like a three album deal. so you know we were kind of like could be the last album we ever do you know and even though I'm sure we'll resign and I'm sure we'll do another album it's like it was kind of like what is like a bucket list thing that if say we never release music ever again

like what do we want this to be basically so so yeah we were like let's let's go overseas and what part of that was bucket list just doing it overseas or the studio in general I personally had this like theory where it was like you know waking up in a different place and, you know, like, it almost like breed some sort of like different energy into the... Oh, I love it. We go to wheels every time we record. The problem we had, though, is like...

Like a lad's holiday. Yeah, yeah. But it was like, we just finished a tour. Like, so we were in America anyway, so it didn't really feel different because we were, that we were climatized so intensely, right? Yeah, that's a fucking big part of it. Yeah. So I kind of wish we'd flown in and done it and flown out like you might have. No, no, you don't. No, okay. Honestly, because we had every stray album I've ever tracked. I have flown in the day before, or if not, I will track on that day. And it sucks. And by day three, there was one time where, like, my brain broke, and it's never been

the same again since. Like, me and Will butted heads, and it was just, like, my brain was resist, because of the jet lag, was just resisting fucking information. And we had such a finite time to do it that the last time I was, like I'm going to fly in four days earlier and I'm just going to fucking hang out and then I'll be ready and it was fucking awesome I'm just going to do that every time we're really big on that now like with touring like doing America it's like the sooner we can gather the bad I know at the end of the day obviously every minute is money when you when you're touring so it's like you know if it was

up to the if it was up to the people in the the chairs you know what I mean like you get over there you come the hell back kind of thing it's because there's money money money but it's like for us it's just like like we did a show in Mexico City quite recently and it was like we flew in, we had a day off, we played Mexico City, we had another day off, we flew out. And we really viewed that as like one of the coolest periods of our band's career because it was like it actually felt like almost what people imagined touring is. Does that make sense? Like we had food in the thing and we went for walks and it was really cool. And it never happens like that. It's, it's been South East Asia.

No, don't know. No, no. I'm dying. Every time we've done Southeast Asia, it's been the, like, the most melancholy. thing because we'll fly in, play a show, go straight to the airport, sleep for two hours at the airport, go to the next show, and you do that for five days and you're brain dead. But what you just said, like next time, and no one's fucking invited us again, but next time I want to go, fly in, day off, show, day off in the next city,

show, day off. And then it's just fucking, it's like a holiday, best job in the world. We had a tour like the one you were just describing that was booked, and it was, you might remember more than I do, but it was like two China dates, one... Singapore. Singapore. Fuck China, though, boys.

Fuck that shit. Oh, really. Yeah, you dog the bullet there. No offense. Anyone watching in China? But it was like, oh man, it was like play, fly, play, fly, play fly. And for us, like, the reason we pulled it was because it was like...

It was usually sandwiched between an America tour and an Australia tour as well. Yeah, you'd have been fucking burn. I was fucking brain dead last time. But having not gone or do it again, have you done Japan? No, man. Oh, I'm jealous. all you because you're going to do it, obviously. Like, 100% you're going to do it.

There's no way. If you haven't done it by now, my only recommendation is just flying fucking a weeker. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just the best fucking place on earth. Oh, I'm so jealous. See, I'm being. Maybe we should go. Okay.

Yeah, let's do it. I think we're, like, fucking planning some Japan shit. We do quite well then. There's a scoop. Keep going back because I want to go on holiday. I'm a fucking, I saw that out. I can't say what's about to say, but I'm not going to do it. have you got um how many u.s tours you've done now is you just every every album you do a couple

dude we've honestly man we're really really grateful like two years ago this week we did our first one and we just did our fifth one which was which was a headline tour so in two years we've done five we're going back to sleeping sirens in september like it's kind of crazy we've weirdly become not like more like you know not like more american than british in any way obviously but it's like there's only so much touring you can do in the uk obviously so for us it's like, dude, like, yeah, every, every, like, four months we'll do in America tour. How, how, what, what sort of capacity venues in, we, we, we just did, like, 400 to 600s for the headliner.

Thank you, man, yeah. And so good. And we did 75% of all tickets as well. So it was like, it was, like, we couldn't believe how well it went, to be honest, yeah. But yeah, we've been really lucky the first. And it's, like, for us, it's like, I feel like we sit in between, like, the nostalgia and the contemporary a lot. So we did a tour with Dayseeker and a tour with Bexieker and a tour with

plot in you who were like crushing like contemporary bands you know and then as well as that we did um senses fail silversstein amity affliction we're doing sleep with sirens now so those are for us nostalgia bands so it's like it's really cool to be going out there and doing it you know feeling like part of the current scene and then also feeling like we can play to like throwback crowds a little bit and they feel like successful shows as well you know the throwback crowds are fucking great yeah we just did a silverstein tour and it was like amazing for us I mean Everyone stood and watched us like this. Like bored as far.

Like, but then we sell like a million dollars in money. So you just be like, oh, you were having a good time. Like on stage, I was like, what the fuck? Everyone hates us. And then we sell so much money. Yeah, like adults have money. And kids don't. It's crazy, isn't it?

Who'd have thought? I'll never forget. There was always one person per show just like a guy that did not want to see us. And he was just like this. And they always a trucker cap. And it was just like this, the whole thing. if I could get that guy to nod once.

I'm fucking in. Bro, he's just shaking his head constantly. Or that same guy I'll come up to you after and be like, that's the best fucking show. Yeah, exactly. Like, fully fucking deadpans. Like, why didn't you, why don't you just fucking enjoy it then? Do you guys get, like, it must be kind of weird

because it's like, you're such, such a political band. It's like, especially in America, it must just be like, that guy's just an all right fucking dude and it's just, he's never going to like my band. You know what? We've only ever had it.

Do you know what? There was only once where, So obviously when a good night, all right thing happened, that was, we had people, you know, it was probably, and you know when everyone goes like, oh, I got thousands of death threats on Twitter. It was like, no, you fucking didn't. I fucking did. And it was like people with their guns. Yeah, like I actually will shoot you. See on tour friend.

And we were like genuinely like worried. Like what the fuck's going to happen? Because, you know, whatever. and then we went and we had less people come up to us after the show being like, I disagree with you. It was just like absolutely fine. And all these people were just like, I'm going to fucking kill you.

That just made me realize the internet's not the real world. Because it was like, if you really wanted to kill me, you had the easiest assassination job on the planet. Go to this website. I'll tell you a list of three to 500 capacity rooms that I will be sat down on a stage. for 45 minutes. Yeah, yeah.

You can just pop me, not a single fucking one. And I was kind of gutted. Yeah. Took that personally. Because I was like, good Wikipedia page. Yeah. That would have been hard. How'd you go out?

Fucking just popped on stage. Boom, come get me, motherfuckers. Please do. Speaking of depression, how's your brains? You got sad, sad, sad, sad, sad lyrics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you good? Are you okay?

Yeah, I'm good. It's interesting you asked that, though, because we just hit a wall, I think, as a band, like, for the first time, maybe ever. With that headline tour, we just did, it was like... Because, honestly, since the pandemic, we've played, like, 300 shows in three years,

and it's like, we've never done more than, like, 60 a year, you know? So for us now, doing 100 shows a year, for three years, and literally, like, literally not stopping. Like, I think the main thing as well is, like, it's, like, Daisy Chaining show, like, tours, you know what I mean? So, twice now we did America, Australia, UK, Europe, like don't, don't, don't for three months straight, like twice in the last like 18 months or

something. And then amongst that did like loads of, you know, like lots and lots of tour in. So it's like, so yeah, when we did the, when we did the recent headline run, it was, it felt like, it was like, you know how it is. The higher you are, the lower you feel sometimes, right? And it was like, this is such a special tour. We can't believe we're doing this. You know, we're doing venues that we'd be proud to do in the UK in America, right? So it's like, wow. And like, yeah, I think we all just like had like real like mental burnout. And like it was weird, like not to be lame, but like I cried on stage one night. I was talking to the crowd and I was talking about, you know, like being together and thanks for coming out.

We're so far away from home. And, you know, and I was like, and I realized I was like, wow, I feel really lonely actually. And like I just started crying. And it was like, oh my God, this is a new low for me. You know what I mean? So mentally we've definitely reached a new. we definitely I think we hit an all-time low

mentally because I think we pushed too hard to be honest when the pattern was at an all-time hard at all-time hard but I think it's nice because it's like I feel like we bounced up from it you know like we sat around

we had a chat after the tour and we just like we all had a little cry like do you know it's funny actually like me and Ash are very emotional people but like I'm very extroverted you know I've got that nice little ADHD goppy goblin like can't help but talk by shit

that's actually the first time it's come out, but... Yeah. Yeah. Like, I was like, yeah, you see. Oh, there is. And then Ash, on the other hand, you know, and I think we inspire and, you know, frustrate each other in different ways because Ash is incredibly emotional, but, like, very introverted.

So, like, when I can tell Ash is emotional, I almost need to, like, pull it out. Whereas with me, I'm like, bleh, you know. And I think with Scott and Ben, then the other two members of our band, they're very, very calculated, diplomatic people. So they're not overly emotional. So sometimes when we're on talk,

I know, I know, I know. So sometimes we're on tour, it's like, I am crying every day. Ash looks like he wants to cry, but can't. And then those two are just like legends and doing everything they can to help. But ultimately, I need a shoulder to cry on, right? You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was weird. And we had a chat and we were like, look, this band is in a really healthy place, but there are ways of us breaking it now. Like, it's in a place where we could just, it could snap at any moment. So we've got to be really careful. So, So yeah, my lyrics obviously like sad, but we're even sadder in person. But we're doing good now, though.

Yeah, okay, good. I just wanted to check. Yeah. Just checking everything like. It was tough though, man. Like, yeah, it was, yeah, it was weird. It was like, whoa. Like, this is like hard.

Do you have to wait until you're on a, sorry to be all about your vocals, but it's all just in my brain. Do you have to wait for a low to write lyrics? Or can you write a sad lyric when you're happy? I always wonder this. I do this, um, I do this thing where like I, I write lines a lot. So like something will come up in my head.

And it comes from loads of different places. So for example, like I'll watch a film or I read a comic or something and some like a sentence will just ping to me. Like the concept of a sentence will just stick out to me and I'll just keep that or like, you know, I'll notice a word rhymes with another word. And sometimes it sounds stupid but I'll mishear a word

and then realize it rhymes with another word. And then I'll be like, okay, okay, okay. And my phone is just full of one liners basically. Yeah. And then what I do, I always refer to it as like, it's kind of like making a mosaic, you know, because it's like all these different like shards of stuff like fit together ultimately. And then my job is like a lot of the time when it comes to writing lyrics is like, in the moment I will consistently, like some mornings I'll wake up and I'll have written a lyric in my sleep because like I'm rolling around and I'm just thinking about something and it just I can't. And I'm like, okay, put that in the phone. Right. But then like, yeah, my job generally is arranging those. things a lot of the time. So I don't, I don't really like sit down. But this is what I mean, like you said about it be, I have to be like miserable to write this stuff. It's like, I might have just had a tough hour over two weeks ago. And that brought this really cool sentence out. You don't need to be in the headspace again. No, I don't need to, like, I think

about Brendan from counterpart's and I know he like goes at like a song, right? Like from what I can gather anyway. At the last minute. It's literally one week before. they have to track it. And for me, I couldn't do that because it's like, how to like, oh my God, that would destroy me.

Look at him. Look at a state of him. It destroys him. But it does it every time. And we'll, like, even if we're, there was a period

where we're like touring, I don't want to cut your story, but we were like always doing albums back to back with counterparts. So there'd be like a crossover. And we would do the album first and be like, oh,

how's counterpart going? And we'll just be like, Brendan needs to do some fucking lyrics. It just does it last minute every time. I just couldn't. Yeah. And like for me as well, it's like, I'm especially like, it sounds dumb, but like when I was in university, right, like my dissertation, I did like four months of it because I was like, I know I can't do this. Like, you know, I got buddies who like did it the night before and I just know I can't. So for me it's like, it's like, it's almost like premeditated, like slow work, if that makes sense. Yeah. So pressure writing is just like not a thing for me. I used to be the pressure writer guy. music, dissertation, school, all of that shit was just last minute.

And then I realized it's just so terrible for my mental health. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so stressful. Because rather than, like, let's say, you end up doing something in a week that you should have taken four months for, it's not like you get three point fucking, whatever that is,

3.66 months of rest. You've got 3.66 months of worry about that week. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Whereas you could have done slow and steady. But this stray album, and we're going to come to some drum stuff in a minute, because this stray album, I've got the longest amount of time I've ever fucking had to learn the parts that I programmed that are too fucking hard for me to play. I remember hearing you say in an interview, like, we just fucking,

we just jam a song and then we just kind of like find the purest strain of it and then get it in the studio. I remember thinking like, oh my God, like we could never do that. Especially, I guess we're very different bands though. Like yours is a real band, you know what I mean? Like, ours is like a laptop band. No, we're in that zone. I do want to get on to how you write a song

because we've, the last two records, it's not been whole songs like that, but it has been jammy. It's been virtual, but me on Twitch, Tom's watching the stream. I'm playing a bunch of drum beats and he's like,

oh, that one's really cool. Then I record it and send it to him and then it's like a virtual jam. Because we've spoke about this before where it was like, Ash, just jam. And then if there's anything cool, we can pluck it out,

you know what I mean? But I think it's just hard because like for us like like for you guys like uh like intricate beat would really serve a cool verse right you know whereas for us it's like it's kind of boring but like verses and choruses are almost premeditated like you know what i mean like essentially are you going full time or half time you got what's the bpm is like you've got sing yeah yeah you've made the mistake but the problem is you made the mistake of making the ceiling of how big your band can be bigger by not doing too much screaming because we've got that ceiling the scream singly whereas you guys might be you might have to

play some slightly boring a drum parts but you could be far far wealthier and successful are you got an approach to writing drum parts like similar because I do what he does I'm listening to a score I ripped off something from the dark night recently like there's a hands in a background drum that does like a quintuplet thing and I was like that's fucking sick get in the notes and then we're in the studio, I bring up the idea, immediately will hear's Quintuplets and says no. And then I'm like, no, let me program it. Let me program it. And I'll program it. And it ends up, it's the last bar of the last song on the record. Have you got like a particular writing style for drums? Kind of, kind of. So because Scott and Lucas kind of, they'll send like basically fully formed

songs. So the, I feel like my job or Or like my position is very much like if the vibe is so good, like I never want to be like, oh, instead of on the three, I'm going to change it to two and four and then completely change it. Like, I'll be like, okay, the vibe is so solid. I'll just be like, how can I just put in mad stuff? How good are the program drums when they get to you? Good.

Really? Really good. Scott is a, not that he's not a good guitarist. He's a great guitarist, but Scott is like a producer, songwriter. And then he also plays guitar. He looks at like a guitar, like a tool to make a song. Yeah. So, like, he's very, like, I can't really explain it.

But, like, I'll get demos and I'll be like, yeah, this is, this already sounds, like, there are some songs where I'm like, I don't want to change it, but I'm just going to fuck around and find out. We're like a band of air drummers as well. So, like, everybody really values drums, you know? I mean, you can hear it in the music, like, there's fucking, there's groove there. I think some of it, sometimes as well, it's very much, if there's, like, some space somewhere in a song, or if it's like, if I don't have an idea, I can kind of, like, be a bit more

like I'll just see so the last two records with Dan it's probably really frustrating but I'll like not repeat a fill in a take I'll kind of like do one fill and then I'll be like can we do another one and I'll be like yep and then I'll play someone else

and I'll be like yeah play another just different fill and it'll just different fills will start on like different on purpose or because you're just like I'll just chuck a fill in here just that really so you're not like you don't go in meticulous with like this is what I'm going to do no not really

I see I was that person and I think maybe it's different for us because we're metal we're a metal band like but like previous albums that's been my shortfall with me and will because I'll listen to the track

and I'll go yeah I'll play something like that and then I go into the studio and we'll go can we just play what was on the demo please and I don't know it and it's just like something simple like just moving a crash and my brain just goes well that's not how we've been doing it. And then I just fucking melt down,

like fucking have a full meltdown. So they're quite forgiving of you just doing what you want. Yeah, I think I'm lucky in that respect because there are lots of, there are lots of bands where I couldn't do that. Yeah. I mean, I'm only just recently on this record

because the other day, it took me three days to learn eight bars of music. Because I sat with Will when we programmed all the drums this time. It wasn't like him programming a version of what I played. it was me and him sat there and I was like, I think I can do this and I came home and I was like, set myself the goal.

Like what we're saying about like, not leaving it to last minute, set myself the goal to, I'm going to learn these program drums as close to the actual program drums as possible and it's just not how my brain works. So you've written like bat shit stuff. Bat shit and then you've gone,

oh, fucking shit. Damn it. I have to do this now. Yeah. Whereas normally it's like I've played what's been programmed because it's been simpler, and then I've added the batshit stuff in the studio,

and Will's been like, no, no, whatever. And this time it's like we've agreed on the bat shit. The bat shit's there, has to stay. To be honest, I personally, we haven't even spoken about this as a band, but I can feel us going in that direction, maybe for number four, because it's like we've always,

like I said, our relationship with the drums and Ash's kind of character as a drummer has always been very respectful, you know what I mean? Like, we've always wanted to try and, like, bring him out as, like, an instrument. rather than just like a beat, if that makes sense.

Whereas like, yeah, I can feel it going like, you know, the separating the symbols and the thing was, we did that for a reason. And then we recorded, like, the way we did on the last album to try and capture the live energy. And whereas with the next album now, I feel like we're very much yearning for like, like making sure everything is premeditated,

like leaving nothing up to chance now for the next album, I think. Can you program drums? Yeah. Yeah, I'm just shit-hot it. Are you actually? Yeah. I don't know if that's real or... It was like so...

Yeah, it was so confident. I was like, I don't know if he's joking. So wait, do you... Do you then... So like, let's say you get the track and let's say you think something could be better there. Do you then jam to it, then program what you did and then send it back?

Or you still just wait or... You've got that EAD thing. Yeah. We might use... Yeah. I mean, I've kind of done any way that you're like... Have you done it this way? I've probably done it.

So I'll be like, oh, if I'm like... If I can't get... So our set up's quite weird. So I don't have a kit that I can practice on all the time. And our gear is always in Cardiff. I live in Bristol. Practically, Cardiff. Yeah.

I'll be like, if I'm like, oh my God, I've got a great idea for something like now, I'll be like, Scott, please send me this without drums. And then I'll program something on it. Or if it's like a, like, there was a song on the new record where I was like, okay, I know that there's like, there's two sections where it's, there's going to be batch shit fills. Yeah. So I want to practice them.

months before and did and it was sort of like the fills that were there were very much like I don't want to play these I feel like I can just do something better but then I never

I didn't ever program them I was just like I'm just gonna I know that I'm just gonna practice them and play them and I'll remember them and then what happens let's say you're in the studio and you improvise a feel then you have to play that

because obviously the album comes out about six months later do you learn what you played or are you also improvising Ash is a little criminal Our live show is like Definitely different to our recorded stuff Yeah, because I see your drum videos

Which you're very good by the way And then I'm like That's not on the record I think it comes from I've deliberately went back and gone What is that film? Because I want to figure it out And I go back to record I'm like, that's not even a fucking film there

I think that's the I've like kind of spoken about it before But This yeah Luke has got it right I feel a bit of a criminal sometimes because my mindset is on the record it's like it's there forever

whereas at the live show that's just for tonight so like I want people to go away and be like fuck they smell not stress you out you don't make mistakes and shit I do make mistakes quite not a lot but I definitely fumble the bag sometimes but I think that's part of like

why I don't know like I just want to be a great improv player as well but also it's that thing of like knowing when to be like don't fucking don't go ape shit tonight, you know. That's funny because we've got like one improv section.

It's not improv. It's meticulously to look like improv. And then I play the same thing every night. And it may be the last night of tour or if we had a running joke in the day. It's the end of first world problem child. And we've had like a joke during the day where we've been talking about,

I think there's the last day at the last tour. We were listening to a fucking like a disco song or something. We listened to Carbon DeBruit. And instead I'd do this fucking mad fill and on the last day of tour instead of where it was, I just went, bps, scats,

everyone on stage just fucking lost it. Like, what the fuck is happening? I wish I could do more of that, but I would fuck up. When you make a mistake on... Not if, when. Yeah, when?

We all make them, yeah. That wasn't a slight at you. No, yeah. When you make a mistake on stage, do you beat yourself up about it afterwards? I used to. I used to do it a lot,

but now I'm like, now I'm very much like, I think we definitely, like, found the medium of like last year when it was like what makes a good show and what makes a good performance are different so like we'll come off stage and I'll be like if I see the three boys like that was the best show ever and I've had an absolute like farm of a show yeah then I'll be like okay I I feel like my performance wasn't good enough but the show was good so cop that and like

just worry about tomorrow I can bury it deep down ash is in quite like a different office space really when you think about it because like for me like we have these conversations all the time, we're like, uh, like, let's pull this song and put this song in, because personally, I'm fucking watching the crowd not enjoy this song as much, right? Whereas for Ash, it's just like, that was the worst show of all time, you know what I mean? It was like, no, dude, it was fucking insane. It's just, you've dropped a fill, right? You know what I mean? So it's like, it's completely, the mentalities are very, very different. But yeah, you were right, though. It's like trying to find the, like, trying to mediate the space

between, like, it feels different, but it feels too different, like, pull it back, you know what I mean? It's a weird one. Like, I feel exactly the same. And in my old age, I have learned, like, if the crowd's been going fucking mental, like it doesn't matter. Like, I used to come off stage if I've played badly. And I'm the same thing. At the worst show in the fucking world ever.

It's like, that's such a, in my old age, I've thought, like, that's such a fucking arrogant view of it because it's like, everyone in the crowd had a fucking great time. It's like, not even in the, like, oh, no one noticed. Just like, who the fuck am I to think? Like, that show sucked because I couldn't play something right. It's like, so in my old age, I've been more like, oh, that was cool. Yeah.

Like, yeah, I mean, I could have played better, but whatever. But then I just stew about it in my bunk instead. Yeah, I do. I think, though, we do encourage, like, self-criticism quite a lot in our band because it's, like, it is obviously the route to growth, you know what I mean? So even though you're right, like, don't kill yourself over it and don't, like, paint a good show bad because you would fumble to fill. Like, it is important to know why you fumble the fill,

or maybe not to try there or not even a fill, but like for me personally, like I, I'm similar to Ash like, vocally as well, like, I'll do stuff different if it feels right. And then some nights I'll be like, oh, God, okay, right, don't do that again. But I'm glad I failed to learn from that, you know. Have you got, I'm going to come on to yours

because you did something last night. Something happened last night, yeah. Have you got a monumental fuck up that you can think of? Worst time you've ever fucked up. Once that I've fucked up is kind of like, trying to think you ever dropped both sticks oh my god bro blue ridge the one that we played i'm fucking shit you not because i saw you after and you were like how was it and i was like yeah um i think it was gravity and like i remember um some of the guys from sound talent and sharp

tone were there and i was like good good yeah and i was like oh it's 12 30 and everyone thinks we're on at one so no one's here so it's just big practice in a big field and we've just woken up um i remember thinking like, or not thinking, but in gravity, which I think was maybe like third song, middle of the set. I was playing and I dropped my right stick and I was like, oh, left stick, fine, put it in the right hand. And as I went to put it in the right hand, it left my hand. And I was just on stage about to try and play. And I was like, I've got nothing in my hands. It was, it was pretty like. Did you have sticks like close by? Yeah, yeah. I've done it before and had nothing. That's when I started like putting my sticks in my snare drum thing. Oh, yeah. Like,

little because like if you dropped both sticks what can you fucking do I think I tried to use my head I was like what am I going to do and it was like I think instinct wasn't to use my hands I think I just went on the fucking rack tom was like well that's not going to work I was going to say you you did splinter your own eyeball once oh yeah that was horrendous on a pericone yeah I'm in pericon I uh as I like I can't remember what it was but I hit something and obviously the end of the stick came off and as it came off it went into my eye. Fear, fear, fear, fear.

First song. And I remember, like, being like, oh, my God, that was killing. And then I stood up off my stool whilst the start of the second song was rolling. And I, like, put my head on my stool. And I was like, God, this really hurts. For the rest of the set, I was then, like, some it's up, something's wrong.

And I went to the medical tent. And they were like, no, you've just grazed your eye. Yeah. It reminds me if, what the fuck is the name of the film? It's really deep. If anyone gets this, I think there is an Italian zombie. film called zombie with an eye. And there's a scene where

a zombie's trying to get through a door and the door is splintered. And there's this woman trying to push the door shut and it just goes into her eye. It's like old school 80s B movie effect of this eye just getting splintered. That's all I thought of it. What happened last night, Lucas?

Nice t-shirt. You got an Akira t-shirt? We got Akira behind you. Double Akira. Kira's my shit, man. I got a shout out. The guy who made this t-shirt is his Instagram is Usagi boots, right? He's so good. He's designed some... Yeah.

Oh, dude, man, he's the goat. But he designed some anime merge for us quite recently. Oh, awesome. So, he's so good. So if you're into bootlegs stuff, he just did a Kiro run, he's just like, he's really good.

So the shit. I get in trouble, because I'm a big bootlegger fan. Because... And I like, I buy a lot of bootlegs because... And the thing is, it's because the Vinci's t-shirt market

is fucking insane. Yeah, it's so, like, inflated. And then bands, don't reprint the shirts that everyone fucking wants. So I'm like, I see all these like cease and desists that happen from like legacy bands. And I'm like, why don't you just make the shirt everyone wants? For sure, man. And like with this, no, I'm like, if I could, if Akira like as a brand sold this shirt,

I'd fucking buy it. So I'm not trying, like, and I think that's a big part of it is almost like those IPs don't understand like how to brand themselves as well as like random guys on Instagram do. I don't want to, I don't want to docks him. But a friend of mine did, uh, I think it was. was a HBO, he did a Sopranos one and it fucking popped the fuck off. And I'm pretty sure he ended up, instead of a cease and desist, he ended up actually designing some merch.

Nice. I think it was for HBO. I can't remember, but it was like, they hit him up and we like, look, we want you to stop selling this. Please stop selling this, but also like, help. It's like, like, when somebody codes, like, they, you know, when somebody like hacks a website and then they like, they hire the guys. Yeah. Come and fuck me up. You might be wondering how I got into this website. Give me some money and I'll fix it. I'll tell you. What happened last night? Well, nothing crazy. Well, it was nothing crazy to be fair, but yeah, I was swinging the mic by the lead, like, and I just felt the weight of my lead lesson. I was like, I wonder what could have changed. And I was like, perhaps the mic attached to the end of the lead. And then I looked and there's

no... Just lead. So yeah, it's all lead, no mic. And then I'm like, oh, fuck, I've just like knocked out some, like, 13-year-old, like, uh, piece of the veil. Yeah, like a fucking... And then I looked at the crowd and nobody, you know, I was like, I'm sure if that landed in the crowd, there'd be like a visible kind of sign. Then one of the photographers just gave me the mic back. So it went in the photo. Is there a photo of that as well? We'll pop that up there if you're watching on the YouTube.

There's two so far. Just subscribe if you're watching YouTube as well, by the way. Drop a like. If you're listening to it on Spotify, hit the follow button, please. The crowd. Injuries in the crowd. Oh. I talked about this yesterday.

which two listeners would have been two weeks ago with Rory from Daseeker, who you were on tour with. He mentioned quite a lot more show stops. They've had one almost every show since Cray Cicca or Pierce the Vail? Descca. Wow, I didn't notice that. Are you noticing? Because I, I mean, I probably, by this point I might be cancelled for my view that was put out.

Still, it's real rough to navigate. And you're not noticing more show stops? Personally, no, I think, because we're, we're, opening right so we're just like at the start of the night we're on for 30 minutes so it's like for us dream though i know i know and also we sound check at like fucking five and then we're on off stage at eight so it's like i only needed like three hours of my day taking out it's crazy but um i'm not personally but i didn't notice something creasing the other day with day seeker because it was like it was yeah it was rory like so i go up and do an acoustic song with them

um so and obviously these big venues like like supporting and doing acoustic. Personally, I think it's quite brave. So when I go up there, I kind of, it's more nervous for me in that moment than the set because I'm like, oh my God, it's just me and Rory and then like 10,000 people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was just creasing it because it was like, Rory's like up there like playing acoustic singing his heart out and it's like very vulnerable. And there's just like, there was just like a part of the crowd where one of the girls was like, shouting for water, which is obviously like a human right. So I'm glad she got the water. But I remember being like,

Like, bro is just singing like very quietly. And like, she's like, I need water. So personally, we haven't had that. But I, I didn't realize, because I go up with them, it kind of, it kind of destroys my concept of watching them, to be honest. Because I, so I haven't noticed that. But, yeah. They have one in, they have, I think it was like, um, we did the palladium in Cologne and we were all in the dressing room. And, uh, they were playing their last song.

And it was like everyone had stopped playing. but the tracks were still going and I remember being like every time I hear that I'm always like oh something's happened so I went and had a look and yeah it was just someone in the crowd had fainted I mean like

that sucks but I feel like I've been noticing it more and I'm like either everyone's fainting more well some people aren't really fainting I see this is why I'm like am I'm going to get cancelled with this

but we had it we only have one on our last headliner which obviously it's fucking an hour and 15 minutes of pure fucking metal How many songs is that, by the way? Because your songs are short. It sucks, bro.

Is that like 20 songs? 15 and like we have to come off and do a fucking thing. Yeah, I was going to say that that's a good stretch. Like, because we do, we did like 14 for our 70 minutes set. So for you guys. I think ours was 70, really. Yeah. Fair.

But even then, no. Yeah. Sorry. I hate paying for that long. I just play. I get progressively worse and worse. I had a sinus infection as well. I just got so bad.

But then we went straight into a US tour, which were we were playing 30 minutes. We're Silvesting actually. And it was like I was on fucking juice. Yeah. It was amazing. I was like, I'm a fucking monster. You go from Roan Marathon to a 5K?

Yeah, it was fucking glorious. But yeah, Rory was telling me there was a venue that you guys played and they warned them. Like, just so, you know, there's these cards. Red means actual show stop. Green means, you can go again. But people have been pretending to pass out so they can get selfies with the band.

No. That's much. Yeah, that kind of sucks. Because it's the worst thing. It's not that bad for us, but for you, it must be the worst thing. I get it when I'm playing and I see like a commotion in the crowd, my brain automatically goes, oh my God, I hope nothing's happened. I have everyone's okay.

And then I fuck up. And then it must be even worse for you because you don't want to, if you stopped for every single little thing, little thing, yeah, you're right. You'd get no songs done. You'd play three songs. At the same time. And it's hard to gauge what is little and one. is big in that moment. That's the hardest. Like for me, like, I've really, I've really struggled

with being a vocalist, to be honest, because it's like, I can sing, but that doesn't mean I can publicly speak, or that doesn't mean that I'm good at taking selfies, or it doesn't mean that I have good handwriting to tattoo on people. Like, do you got to mean? There's so many stupid, like, obviously, they're lovely, sorry, I don't want to say they're stupid, but it's like, there's so many very different aspects of the job for me. And, like, the public speaking thing is my least favorite thing of all and like the concept of me being like in charge of the safety yeah it's like it's so out of my jurisdiction so like yeah i do struggle with that and like i don't know as well because i did it before i like kind of this guy what was this guy doing i don't know this guy i think a guy was

a creep to a girl i think it was something like that and i visibly saw it and i like called it out but it's like i did that over a part of the song there was a nice part of the song that i would have preferred to have sung and I sacrificed that bit. And then afterwards, I remember thinking, like, did I overreact? You know? And it's tough because it's like... It's real hard.

You've got to gauge it on like a fucking split second thing. Like, do I do something here? And I got heat, again, me getting heat on Twitter. Who knew? I got heat because when Astro World happened, Travis Scott, I was like one of the only people that was just like, guys, this is not his fault. Like, we played shows.

to 500 people and it's real hard to see if someone's passed out. Yeah, for sure. You're playing a fucking, I think it was 10,000 people. Yeah. Like, you just have to,

and obviously there may have been problems with security and there was problems with they hired the wrong security and all this stuff. But Travis Scott's not sat there with a blueprint going, no, I need cheaper security.

Like, he doesn't give a fuck that's whoever organized it. I really felt for him because people were just like, oh, he needs to be like put in jail for murder and shit like that. And I was like, it's fucking hard.

Like, it's real, hard to judge, is this just someone, is this someone dead? Is this someone who's passed out does need medical attention? Is this someone doing something for attention? Like, yeah, you're right, because the difference between being passed out and pretending to be passed out is like huge. And then the difference between being passed out and being dead is like, I don't know, that guy could, you're right, that guy could be dead or that guy could be pretending to be passed out. And it's like, that, like, line is like quite thin actually. The problem is, the problem is, You know, you must have had it before we played a show and the security just, they're just not with it. First day. Really, this tour. Don't say the venue, but you mean...

Oh, no, sorry, as in like, it's security's first day. Oh, security's first day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we do... Ah, man, security is also, like, a big problem. And it's like... It's like... It's tough because, like, we grew up working in bars and, like, I hate to be... You know, I don't want to, like, put a blanket over the... the industry of security. But it's like, I knew so many, like, people with, like, complexes who work in that job just so they could, like... punch a guy once a week. Like, do you get what I mean? Like, and these are the same people that are supposed to be like catching like 15 year old girls. Like, you know what I mean? They have, they don't care about that.

But someone, and the hard thing is it's like there's almost like there's no like real training. When they're amazing, they're amazing. And it's like, we just turn up to a show and we're like, there's a security briefing and we're like, okay, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. And you just have to trust those fucking people. And be like, okay, I guess these guys are good.

sometimes Tom's, we've had to stop songs and just be like, can we get more security? Or like security, see security of being like, like punching people and shit. We're like, can you just fucking, we had a show in Montreal and security just wasn't even there. Sam Carter did security for us. Sam Carter just came down to the front and was like grabbing people or whatever

because people were just falling on their head. The selfies and it was perfect. Yeah. The perfect fucking groin. What I do want to talk about is your history of collaborations and splits. Because they're, they're, like, they're odd.

Not odd. You pick weird, weird bands. So off the top of my head, Alpha Wolf, loath. Yeah. That's a new day seeker one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which will be out by then. Which would be out.

Yeah. Oh, I'm a professional. That Alpha Wolf, how did that one come about? Yeah. Is that co-written? Like, the songs written together, or was it just a split? No, it was just, it was just the features.

So it was like, like, obviously me and Lockheed did put our like personal like stamps on the things but like I'd written the lyrics they'd written the lyrics so it's like it was kind of and to be fair scottie from alpha-woofer had kind of written the melody you know what I mean so for me it was more about like essentially like personifying that melody as like a clean vocalist yeah it's a cool thing that I'm really proud we do and I'm I'm genuinely like annoyed more bands don't do it like I'm so like for example with straight like you guys could put out a split EP with like so many bands and it would be cool as hell man You know what I mean?

We're like scared of EPs though. That is valid. I think personally my least favorite part of it is the fact that it's like not an album, if that makes sense, you know what I mean? But like at the same time,

there's only two songs from us. So it's kind of like, it's kind of like, the way I've always viewed it is like, since I joined the band in 2016, we've released a song every year annually. So we've released an album and then we've released a split

and then we've released an album and then we've released a double A and then we've released. So it's like our way of like I need you man. just like, sorry. Knocked over the butt plug,

bro. But yeah, it's like our way of like keeping contemporary but keeping cool as well, you know, like the double A's that we do have always been pressed

on picture discs. So like people can own, there's only two songs in our discography you can't physically play on a record. And do you play those songs live? Yes, generally we still play like gravity and birdcage. They don't make it to the albums.

No. Good for you. Yeah. And it's funny because, yeah, because it's like, like, for me personally, I think like,

growing up with like, Enda Shikari did it quite a bit. it, like destabilizes it. It's very DIY. Yeah, just like, who cares? Just take the song, you know what I mean? Like, because we wrote in, we love it, so listen to it. And it's like, that was always the way. But yeah, the split thing, we did the first one in 2018 with Loth. Yeah. I think more than anything, it was like we really liked each other's bands and we felt like each other were, like, about to do something special. Was Faisal in holding absence or Lowe at that point? So Faisal was in holding absence at this point.

Interesting. Yeah, we've got a really, like, it's a really odd time. line to be honest. But basically, Faisal was our guitarist, my best friend and housemate from uni, and like, you know, it's funny because when I, when I think about him, I don't think about the basses and think about, like, my buddy, I used to drink cider and play

Halo Reach with every weekend, you know? So it's like, so we go way, way back. And then, um, but yeah, so we were, I guess that lineup for like two years. I think it was tough because he was putting a lot of pressure on himself. Um, and Oh my gosh

This could go really deep Not in like a bad way I'm like he's coming to my wedding Like in two weeks time So it's like Congrats thanks Thank you yeah But yeah so like you know

We're still super buddies But like Yeah I think it was like I think he put a lot of pressure on himself And And things maybe Kind of didn't end up exactly where He wanted them to be

If that makes sense And I think the pressure that he put on himself kind of just killed him, man. And it was, it's really hard looking back. Like, I feel, you know how it is? When you see younger versions of your friends, you know what I mean? I feel sorry for my, my old buddy,

being in that position, right? You know? But yeah, so basically, we did that split EP with Loth. And I think we got the first mixes of our album back. And I think he just, he'd put a lot on the,

he'd put a lot on the producer we were working with and a lot on the experience. And it came back. And I think he was just like, like heartbroken with how like not up to scratch it might have been I think and then basically it was kind of awkward at the time but it was like we were like okay this is all like you there's a lot going on and he basically was like look I need space like can I go um can I go kind of like

in the van with loath basically so can I kind of like chill with them for a bit you know I have a few days away from you guys and just get some space or whatever I know you haven't even asked this question by the way but I've never we've never we've never like explained it. It's interesting. So, um, I was getting there. Yeah, cool. But yeah. And then basically after like five days maybe of like hardly seeing him and realizing there was like a disconnect and we'd kind of caught when the loath's bassist was quitting, we were like, hmm, I personally was like, I need to speak to him like as a friend. You know what I mean? And I'll never forget we were in, I think we were in Frankfurt and I can, I can see the room in my head now and like, you know,

we both had a little cry and we chatted about it. And it was kind of like, like, look, do you know what to do this anymore? And he was kind of like, no, man, I don't think so. And then I was like, do you want to join Loath? And he was like, yeah, I think I probably will. And it was like, it was a very lovely passing of things. Like, you know what I mean? Doesn't often happen.

Very really, no, I know. And that's why I'm so like, that's why I'm so open about it because it's like, every now and then, like, somebody would be like, your guitarist quit your band mid-tour and joined the band you were touring with. Like, that's mad when you think about it on paper. But we love Loathe. some of our best friends in the music industry and Faisal will always be one of my best friends

and I'm just glad that he is completely on his feet and way happier now. I think that's like a huge thing. Okay, so what I want from you, I've got two little fun, fun little questions related to the collab situation. From each of you, I'd like a dream collaboration. And I don't mean a split, I mean like an artist that it would be holding absence

and this artist. Oh man, it's really, tough because it's like, because you don't want to be unrealistic. Like, do you got to mean? No, you can be unrealistic. I don't think anything's unrealistic. Look at fucking spirit box and negative the sound. Yeah, yeah. There's fucking nothing. And you've got Alpha Wolf with ice tea. Like, there's nothing. There's nothing. Personally, I think Haley Williams is like my favorite. I just think she's so good. Oh, I can see that. Yeah. I think she'd crush. And like, she's done a lot of cool bands in our scene. But for me, the main thing, like, I keep thinking about my

favorite co-lab in years was the American football song she did with them. I don't know if you've heard it, but I think you'd really enjoy this. Like, it's so, so good. Nice. Haley Williams, what about you? Pensive. Yeah. For audio listeners, you're looking at a pensive man right now. I feel like it would be, like, it's weird because I would want to see someone else play in the band. So mine would be like, I'd love to see Connor Dennis in our band. Oh, it'd be a drummer. Yeah, that would be unreal. I feel like you and Connor I've got quite similar, wacky fucking Phil styles. That's what I mean. Like it would be him.

No, he's the same fucking band. Next. I'm on a different one. I appreciate that. Connor's fucking sick. It'd be the same band to me because he serves the song. Yeah. Also, he's a shredder.

He is. I kind of... Give me an artist. Don't give me a fucking drummer. Maybe it would be like one of those like Royal Albert Hall things where, like, John Hopkins on like... Oh, wow. Mega.

Yeah. That kind of thing would be. be sick. That would be sick. I love John Hopkins. That's a good... That's a really cool shout. Yeah, because one thing I love about our music is like the soundscapes are like... Like, I'd love to just put out our tracks and minus the band

and there's a real, like... I mean, I love music like that. I can literally listen to sound like music all the time. Yeah. John Hopkins... That would be lit, man. Yeah, I feel like that could happen. That would be cool. We're trying to do more, like, the last record we have much more, like... I don't want to say tracks, but it is like synths

and shit like that. This record we have a song that sounds like nine inch nails and then we have way more like synths and stuff on there i don't want to leak who like we're trying to get but i am like obsessed with the idea of being able to like just put out like oh do you have stray's industrial songs yeah dude and then you can get fucking whoever on it i had health on the podcast and they obviously collabed with Trent Rez. Well, with 9-inch Nails. I did not know that.

Oh, my God. Amazing. It's like health featuring 9-inch Nails, it's cool. Wow. Isn't everyone. It's fucking amazing. Unbelievable.

He was telling me some cool stories about, people can just listen to that episode, but like, how it happened. So they toured together and it was pandemic and they just sent a hell Mary like, hey, we're all not doing anything.

Like, do you want to do a song together? And Trent just went, yeah. Oh, sick. That sounds like, bucket list is hell. Yeah, fucking crazy.

I was watching, have you seen the new Shogun show? I, fuck, you're gonna say exactly what happened to me, but it's my favorite show I've seen in so fucking long. Same, so good. Wait, we've got a new episode today, I think. I'm like on episode six, so like I'm a little bit behind.

You've got one in the tank and there's another one today. What were you going to say though? But like, I was watching like, you know, some samurai fight or whatever. And I could do like a blunky, blunky fucking little trend. And then it turns out it was at because Ross. Yeah, I did the same thing. Yeah. It was probably the same fucking moment.

Probably, man. I'm watching it and I was like, this sounds like nine-inch nails. And then I, I googled it and it's like, because Ross is fucking 50% in the orange scones. I'll tell you what you should check out if you haven't is

Halsey did an album. With Trenton. But what happened was she wrote a whole album and then they just removed all the music and wrote an album under her vocal stems. Yeah. And like it's almost like why, like how the fuck is like something so cool

existed in like the pop world. And like famously it's like a flop album for her. Like none of her fans like it. It's fucking great. But it's awesome. Yeah, no fans don't like it because it's fucking good. You didn't ask. but that's my dream collab.

That's my dream anything. Dream, dream, dream guest, dream collab. Go. Just fucking, just be my mate, please. Be my fucking got got got got Goddy, mate. Okay, so we've got John Hopkins, and we've got Haley from Paramour.

Imagine the three things. And Trent Restner, just combining three together. I wonder if they, John Hopkins and Trent butt heads. That'd be a co-lab, though, those two. Holy molly. And then I have another little, little fun thing that I'd like to do, and we'll see

if there's an answer here. How many times you quit your band? like being in such a bad mood that you're like that's it I'm quitting I'll be honest I'll be completely transparent the the the America tour I I I struggled to sleep for about a week because I was like I'm like not like is this right for me but I was like I'm so miserable yeah and I was like is the band the problem like does that make sense I remember being like like obviously it was it was like a very personal depression you know and it was like I think being in a band is very interesting

because it's like the mirror is like there 24-7 so it's like you're looking at you like I have like body image problems and I have self-confidence issues and it's like so every night I need to get up there look like me be like me act like me sing like me it's just like constant and then meet people yeah who think I'm cool apparently yeah I've sure did I come across like a wanker exactly yeah and it's like it's really so yeah like looking that close to your own reflection for like weeks at a time is like draining so so yeah I got to be honest, I've never, you know, I don't think anyone in our band that hasn't actually quit, has quit, if that makes sense. But for me personally, it was, it was the first time I was like,

maybe I'm just destined to just like get a call center job instead because maybe I'd be happy. I'll tell you this right now, no. I know, I know. I know. You definitely fucking wouldn't. No offense to that. Was there a particular moment or was it just like a, just a, the burnout? Yeah, it was just a burnout. But it was like, um, like I said, like crying on stage, I, I remember thinking like, whoa, this is a new low. This is really bad. And then I got to be honest, like, for the first time I was like, I think I'm like approaching canceling shows for my mental health, to be honest. And I think that should be destigmatized anyway, but I'm aware of how awful it is to cancel a show for any reason. It's really, really rubbish.

And then anyway, like two days later, I caught like sinusitis and then we had to cancel a show for my physical health. And I remember thinking that was really interesting because it was like, I felt really guilty about canceling shows for my mental health. And then two days later, it's fine for me to cancel shows because I'm ill. Weird, isn't it? But you know why you probably felt weird about that is because I've seen some, the fucking, the comments,

the comments in general anyway these days are mental, but like the comments when a band canceled something. Do you see the comments reasoning for Polaris? Oh no, I didn't even, like, so Polaris have pulled out of the DesiCicor replaced by Silent Planet. And obviously, like, there's something going on because Dan had to go home

and they always, But, you know, they had their fucking brother die. Yeah. And they went straight on tour. Yeah. And then they canceled this tour. And I just saw comments like, hmm. No rescheduled.

Or I only bought tickets for Polaris. It's like... Fucking buy the tickets and sell. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? Like the me, me culture, the Amazon Prime culture, I like to call it. Which is just like, well, I ordered this yesterday.

Why isn't it here today? Like, it fucking worries. me about having to cancel shit. To the point where there's been shows that I should have cancelled and I've just been like, you know, I'm just going to fucking do it. And then I'll like make a message just saying, hey guys, I'm feeling fucking shit. And if you don't want, I'm not going to come out and meet people.

But like, I do get that, the fear. And it is because people just need to take a step back and go, yeah, it's the dream job. It's the dream job. But it is real fucking hard. It's not always dreamy. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

I always say that. It's like, it's, it's, It's every, like, nuanced emotion you're feeling plus shame and guilt and, like, all these things because it's the dream job, you know? It's like, everything is bad enough, but because it's the dream job and it's still happening, it's somehow worse, you know? Yeah. But there's a physiological reason as well that our mental health, which I know she spoke

about on this podcast, but I struggle with it in general. And, like, anyone with ADHD or anything like that will... understand. Like, physiologically, when you play a show, the dopamine you get from that is like fucking 10 lines of Coke. Like, it's nuts. You know what it's like that fucking feeling. And the way a brain works is when it produces dopamine, you get the exact opposite down swing afterwards. Whether or not you get the dopamine from gambling or, you know, a big rush of dopamine from a show, drugs, gambling, whatever, you will, physiologically, unless you do that thing again, or to a greater degree, or a drug, or something like that, you will get the complete opposite

drop in dopamine. So, like, we might be having the most fun in the fucking world on stage, but it's going to come down. And usually it's when you get home, isn't it? I'm, I'm the worst when I fucking get home. I'm like, literally in the fucking gut. Day one, I'm like, oh, this is nice. Then I didn't get that dopamine. that night and my brain goes for me guess what this fucking sucks fucks me up I mean people need to fucking just give one a little break how many times you quit your band you ever quit quit quit in a rage even in your head I honestly I can quite confidently say

I've always thought about like skipping stuff but never quitting I think like and not to be like deep about it but like I I don't think I could ever do like I'm this sounds so ridiculous but like I can't do anything as well as as good as I can do being on tour and like playing drums

yeah like I if if if if I quit then it'd be like I'm the most pointless there's no plan B yeah it's always been that for me so it's weird because like I kind of like in my brain I've kind of like

there is no quit there is no plan B you have to do this it's hard and like, it's very unhealthy way to think. Yeah, I was gonna say, man, like that last tour we did, you know,

we were all kind of in the gutter and like, yeah, like being like my life's purpose is this and I'm miserable. Like you said, it's like unhealthy to put so much onto anything.

So it does kind of explain why sometimes when you're miserable, you're really miserable because it's like, like my life is pointless. I'm literally pointless without this. I also think that's a big reason

a lot of, people didn't come back after the pandemic because I don't know about you guys but for me I had that mentality like oh my god if this all goes away I've got nothing I've gone zero and then like six months into the pandemic obviously I'm still bummed out but like part of me was just like oh wait like if touring went away like I'd have a life I'd have stuff to do and I think a lot of people a lot of people I know just never came back yeah because they were like oh hang on yeah and I think we're both lucky because it's like we're both on like we're both on like upward trajectories and we're both like, you know, living good lives with it, you know,

but I can, I can understand, you know, if, like, your band has kind of fallen off a little bit and, like, you're touring once every nine months or whatever, like, yeah, you're right, like, what's the point? Yeah, I could, I could, I could have packed it in. Didn't know. I'm back. Good job. I'm back, baby.

This is mad right as well. I'm going to, I'm kind of going to say to you about it, but I remember, can you stay on the podcast? Yeah. Okay. It was something you said years and years and years ago, it was like, kind of, I'm not. God, 2012 or something. It was like, I think maybe you had just joined Stray.

But you tweeted. And you were basically like, I can't remember exactly what it was so long ago. But it was basically along the lines of like, to be fair, it's actually kind of bad. But you were like, if you're in a band and you're tour in the world and you're like not happy about it or something or like you're like, oh, and you were like,

I remember this. Yeah. And I remember being like, Yeah, and like that, that actually, that's like stuck with me the whole since I've been in the band. Throw me under the bus. Say what he said. No, because I remember saying it right. And you know what?

It pops up in my head every time I'm depressed. I'm like, you didn't know, bro. Yeah, exactly. And I, I, come on, say what I said. Say what I said. It was basically something like if you, I can't remember it. I can't remember. I remember exactly what it was because I think about it all the time.

And you're right. It was 20, it would have been, it was 2013. It was before Stray. When I was in a band that was like touring like twice. twice a fucking year and I said it was like I'm ashamed of saying this

and I'm sorry that it stuck with you because I said something along the lines if you don't know how good you've got it right because and it was it came from a place of me having at that point a failed career

but as a touring musician I was just I was teaching drums and you know I like teaching drums but I saw everyone in fucking you know doing what I wanted to do which was tour loads and I it was along the lines I said something like,

you don't know how fucking good you've got it moaning about being on tour. Then I got in a band that toured all the fucking time and I got fucking miserable and I was like, oh, yeah, this sucks. And I honestly, I made me think about it like once a week, like how much, that grounds me because you don't know everything.

I don't know if it's getting older, but like... It's like grass is always greener, right? Yeah, and I found in my fucking old age, I'm just like, I'm way more observant of stuff. Like, people seem to be annoyed at this or, oh, this is happening. I'm just going to fucking sit and wait before I tweet my opinion on it, because more often than not, 10 years later, I'm fucking absolutely wrong. I don't want to use this word because obviously I'm describing you with it,

but like I felt this way a lot where it's like, I think the music industry, because it's so polarizing, so quick and whatever, it's like, it's easy to feel like bitter, I think a lot. And like, on the outside looking at it. Yeah, and it's like, even now, like, you know, I'm really proud of our band and I love everything about it. But like sometimes I look at other bands and be like, I am bitter that I'm not

in that band, you know what I mean? Even like as good as we've got it, like, contextually, it's so easy to be bitter in this scene. You know, like a tour gets announced like this band guest this tour and I'm like, we should have got that. Oh, I did it yesterday. Fuck that band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now what I do is I just don't tell anyone I go. Yeah. And then I check myself the day later, I'm like, you know what? What about? Yeah. But it's it's interesting in that stuck with you because

I think about that, honestly weekly, because of how fucking wrong I was. It's like a true north to come back to you. Yeah, how fucking wrong it was. And I'm sorry that that stuck with you. Just that you can have some days off,

Manuel, if it's fine. It's fine. But let's look at it this way. I was probably, even back then when I was just touring a little bit, there's people who get annoyed when people cancel shows because they haven't been there.

And that was probably me then. And it's just like, you need to just take a, a little step back and deep breath and be like, I truly don't know what's going on here, I'll probably shut my mouth. I think I'm getting better in my old days, why I don't tweet as much because I'm just good at shutting my mouth.

I'm like, I'm a drafts saving kind of tweeting out. Holy shit. Yeah, but then I do that, but then I like when I have a little fucking, a little bipolar swing down, I'm like, yeah, I'm a... What's in the drafts? I've released the drafts. Send it all out there. Did you prepare me a two truths and a lie? Yep. Yeah, we did. One each or one,

combined band, combined. Oh, we've like done a band one. Yeah. Let's do it. I still don't know how the game works, by the way. So you tell him, and I'm going to sort of ask some questions to try and decide for it. I don't know if people like this bit, by the way. I'll just get it been doing it.

We were gutted about the Dream Festival, by the way. You do both if you want. I haven't really prepped that, though. I feel like Ash might have prepped. Yeah. I've got everything. All right, let's, let's do both. Let's do both.

Let's do both. Anyone in the comments or whatever, just tell me if you dislike both of these sections or if you prefer one of them more. The problem of the Dream Festival one was some people just didn't get it. And it was just like, felt like festival press. And I was just like, I just don't want to do that. To me, I hope you've had fun. But none of this has felt labored or like, so when you were writing this, that's why I didn't

do. I had a question on like, it's just because I wanted to know, but it's like, I didn't want it to come across like festival press. Like, because you are the singer of holding absence and you are the fucking face of holding absence, but you are not originally the original singer. do you get any fucking little loser I prefer the old guy Oh my God

Literally like three nights ago Oh here we go Lucas was on stage with Dayseeker Doing the bit And Ramon the bassist Text me a picture of like a screenshot Of a story And someone had literally called Lucas Zach

Who was the old singer So somebody like I guess Googled like it But yeah So I think it was an accident But it was so funny Because it has been like eight years now But I didn't even know

There was one Well good yeah good question Holding Absence's first show ever, so with the original original lineup, was supporting my old band as Ash drumming. So it was very much the inception of this band was, just that makes sense. So we were really good friends. Well, obviously, I joined the band, so of course I was really good friends with everyone, but I was really good friends with the singer at the time as well.

But yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, for anybody, check out, there's a band called Parting Gift, right? and the old vocalist of holding absence started parting gift after like they parted ways. So it was a really cool band and I think probably what holding absence would have ended up sounding like, I imagine. But yeah, for me, like I think it is funny. Like I do hate the like, like you said, man, like that there's no original members left in the band thing. It's so crudgy. I'm the original drummer. I'm going to die on that hill.

Yeah. And even though like actually. You mean old guy? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's like, oh, like, who, like, dude, shut up. Like, you know, like, hold an absence before me had two songs. It's just people don't want to be the coolest. Yeah, well, people like to think they know.

People still say it with Sam. I'm just like, oh, I prefer the nightmares focus. I'm just, like, fuck. No offense to the guy, but come on. But, um, but, um, but yeah, honestly, it's not really a thing because, like, the, the, you know, I don't know, suck my own dick, but the band did, like. I mean, you are the band to me and not, no,

it's to anyone else. It's like, you can't, you couldn't have another vocalist. You'd have to split up if he left. Yeah. If he did one of his famous quitting. Yeah. One of these nights, you get a text on that. I'm quitting.

But yeah, we don't get it too often. But it is funny, though. Every now and then, I'm like, oh, our Wiki page says more ex-members than current members. Oh, I hate that. Why don't everyone's so fucking obsessed with it? It's cring. Like, you wouldn't like, like football teams.

The sort of people that post these things often like football. But, like, a football team, you wouldn't be like, well, there's no original members in Manchester United. Of course not. They're all dead. Of course not. They got too old to fucking play. Or they didn't like it.

Or they're dead. Like fucking. Or like a business or anything like that. Yeah, it's so stupid. Oh, there's no original member at Coca-Cola. I'm not going to drink that anymore. And like you've got to think as well. Like I think it's really interesting because it's like bands as like a, you know,

you've got to like zoom out. Like you think like at the end of the day like, yeah, you're connecting with. You either connect with the people or you connect with the vessel, right? You know what I mean? Like for me, for example. like Norma Jean, I think their later albums were way better than their first stuff. And there's obviously no remaining members of, but it's like I liked that band that came to exist years later. I thought their music was good. I don't really care who's there or why or how

long they've been there. But then, yeah, you've got to think about like the concept of a band as like a vessel, you know, like for example, like Slipknot obviously just like adding members in and out like over time now, you know? And it's like, honestly, it really doesn't fucking matter. And like, obviously, I know Corey Taylor's the goat, and like you said, I think the vocalist is the hardest member to, like, swap out. You know, I mean, they spoke about it years ago. They were like, you know, maybe one day Corey's son will replace him. And I'm like...

Like Marvel. That'd be cool. Yeah, it'd be cool as fuck, dude. Yeah, you're right. And it is like Marvel, where it's like, Slipknot has become, like, more than people now. It's become like a... Spider-Man. Yeah, it's become Spider-Man. Guess you what?

Yeah. We'll get Max, whatever... Morales. Get Morales on. Yeah. stop pretending you know more than it's the same thing with like I'll play this song like an old song

in it it it's like oh okay we okay cool you know an old song yeah well done when you're screaming it from the crowd play this old shit song everyone I know more about the band than you it's like well you don't like the band because you're saying there's nothing

I'll look at you when I say this everyone there's nothing you might think this is a compliment but when you say oh I really even if you don't say I prefer the old stuff. If you say, this is your nostalgic right to say this, right? But if you say, even my favourite song by you is like a really, really old one, like no musician makes music

with the goal of getting progressively worse, right? We all think the last thing we did is the best, and we all believe that, and that's why we make it. It's a backhanded compliment. Even if you say, obviously maybe it meant a lot to you and everything like that. Which is valid. Yeah, it's definitely, and nostalgia is a whole big thing. But like, It's not the slam dunk of I love your band that you think it is. Like, oh, I really love your first song ever. It's like, thanks. I think I was absolutely fucking idiotic when I wrote that song.

I think you're like the newest song and we'll all be your best, mate. It's a little hack there. Two droves on a lie, we didn't even start it. Okay. Let's go. The first one is that we self drove a bandwagon for our first ever America tour. The second one is that our 5'8 guitarist started internet beef with the 6'3 vocalist of Code Orange.

And the third one is that my cousin is in Boyzone. These are the best ones yet. And if you don't like this, you're up all night. You're a fucking idiot if you don't like these ones. So much to say. Which member of Boyzone? Shane. Is he Welsh?

No, he's Irish. So basically my grandfather is one of seven. If this is a lie, I'm going to give you a fucking Oscar. And then his sister, me, my aunt, had seven kids. the youngest one was Shane. So all my life I grew up, go into like, basically like boxes

to watch arena shows of my cousin. Now you're a vocalist and a very good one. I'm put that on the back burner. It's quite. Before I give my decision, let's get,

I think this is how you actually play the game. What was number one again? Oh, you self-drove a bandwagon. Who drove? Me and Ben. I mean, I know it's doable because it is just a box truck. Yeah, but.

But they're massive. Yeah, I mean, they fucking suck. And if you get a driver, is bad. We've never been to America before. You're not sleeping. Yeah.

Bam wagon on your first American tour. Yep. Good thing. Yeah. Well, this is the thing we shared, we shared with band called caskets. And we did share some of the driving and so. The joy of a four piece. That's fucking so soon.

Yeah, dude. I love a bandwagon. Yeah, same. I mean, sleeping can be like... If Ash is driving. Yeah. What bunk do you pick? I'm the back, right middle.

So I can pee like easier. Okay. Not where they far away from the toilet. What bunk do you pick? So on the first tour, I didn't. have a bunk because the driver bunk was the one that no one picked. Everyone else had a bunk. I would, you know when you walk in and there's the sofa? Yeah. I'd sleep on that. What about the bit where the driver sleeps though? Yeah, that's in the cab though, right? Yeah. So we'd like

cycle. We would rotate drivers. So like me and Ben would drive. Two of the guys in caskets would drive. And then if there was like a shift where I wasn't driving that night, I didn't have a bunk. So I just have to sleep on the sofa. I feel like that's true because there's, there's, there's, there's, big, big elements to it. But we'll come back to that. Yep. And your five foot, what? Three, four.

No, no, no. You'll leak his height here. Yeah, no, no. I'm just trying to paint the picture. You know what Star is like? Yeah? Yeah. I mean, you are, no offense to you.

There is no possible, like, you know how, like, McFly or Busted or the Jonas Brothers have like a cadence when they do a promo? Yeah, no. You guys are fuck. It's like fucking New York City skyline. Like, you just got fucking, there's, I was about to say the ones that blew up, they're not there anymore.

And he started beef with, what's his name, Jamie? I mean, I kind of want this one to be true, so we can talk about it. I'm going to say, Boyzone is a very well-constructed lie. My cousin is in Westlife. Oh! Who were Welsh? They're Irish as well. Irish as Welsh.

Literally, yeah. Which one is in Westlife? So he is Shane as well. He's the, because I was basically like, I can't. No, if there's a Boyzone. This will be a... Shane from Boyzone was the one of the tattoos on EastEnders, yeah.

So I was hoping you weren't going to, like, quiz me on that. Because I was like, the best lie would be a very, very close truth. Yeah, I mean, because it was real Oscar winning. Thanks. What was the beef? We're going on. Is there still beef? No, no, no, no.

It's completely fine. And it's stupid because it isn't really beef. It's just, this is so, this has been so funny for us for so long. And, like, we have no, there's no beef with, please don't clickbait this. I mean, I could say some shit that would start my own beef, but I'm not going to bother it. But basically,

when we were recording the greatest mistake of my life, I'm the boring diplomatic member who, like, normally, if someone's going to do anything naughty and fun, I'll, like, stop them. That's why you came in to put out of his fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But anyway, I was asleep one night. And then, uh, basically, I think Scott had had had a couple drinks and our old bassist James was like an agent of chaos. And Dan had gone away for the weekend. Yeah. And, like, we were in middle fun for, like, a weekend just alone. So Ash likes, you know, poking the bees nest every now and then.

James was like a crazy, like, whacking the bees nest with a stick, and like Scott was drunk. And I was in bed. So terrible combination. And basically James was like, we basically, we were talking about how Code Orange looked like the hardest band in the world. Like they looked like they could literally, like, kill you. Yeah.

James said to Scott, like, I bet you wouldn't message Jamie from Code Orange saying, like, do you think you're hard? That's fucking awful. because that guy would not be able to take the joke. Well, so to be fair, I think he did in the end. But then, um... So wait, who, who egged him on? James, our old bases.

I was going to say, you were glint in your eye there. It's so good. You were there to be fair. Scott sent the message and it was like maybe 11 p.m. Also, as well, Scott, this was before the blue tick. This was four years ago. So I think Scott had like 2,000 followers. And it just said, do you think you're hard?

So think you're hard. And her, so Jamie messaged him at like 5 a.m. our time, obviously, he's in America. And it's like, huh? loads of question marks. And then like two hours... Scott was a bit like... No, it was longer.

It was like four hours later. Like, I remember thinking it was funny that he'd like come back to it like four hours later. It's really funny. Jamie basically said, speak up to Scott after. And so then Scott just shot himself and was like, oh, I'd need to tell him that it was a joke. And I was dead.

What did Jamie say after that? He was like, it's cool, man. It's all good. Oh, fair play. So he's a legend. Like, legend. I'd envisioned that going worse. Yeah, for sure.

It was really funny, though. I woke up though and I was like, oh my God. But every now and then we'll be like, speak up. Like, that's become canon now. I nearly think so UK, do not do you? Just think you're up. Fucking amazing. I nearly started a Code Orange.

It wasn't even, I didn't think it was a beef. I wanted to keep it up. Again, pandemic fucking bored on my couch. When Code Orange announced their new, like, look. But like, it was called underneath. Underneath, right? But you know what? I loved the aesthetic of it.

But also I made a funny joke at the time where I got the cast of Hellraiser, a photo of the cast of the Xenobites from Hellraiser, and I just put the Code Orange font above it and just wrote Code Orange. And I tweeted it and I was like, yeah, this is fucking sick. And Tom like shit in the belly was like, bro, why are you doing that? Well, like, but the fucking nice guys, why are you trying to snap beef?

And I was like, it's funny. Like, it's not. And I had to delete it in the end. Oh, no. But anyway, that was annoying. Okay, and then the bandwagon obviously was true. Yeah, these crackers. Fuck that, you never do it again?

No, no. I remember the first, so when we agreed to do it, we were like, it'll be fine, self-driven vans in the UK. It's just a bandwagon, how hard could it be? Easy, it's probably like a mini-tours. It's fucking half a bus. Lorry. So I was filling in for a band in the UK supporting trash boat,

and on the last night of the tour, they were like, oh, you guys are going to America sooner? I was like, yeah, man, yeah. Were you in a van? And we were like, now, I're in a bandwagon. are sick. And I was like, yeah, we're going to self-drive it. And like, all five of them in a heartbeat, all turned. And they were just like, you're doing what? Yeah. And we were like, self-driving. And they were like, do you know how big they are? And I was like, no. And then

my precedent going in was, I just don't want to do the first drive. So everyone else was like, okay, fine. I'll never forget Ben pulling off of like Hollywood. Bulletin. Oh, me? So I ended up doing the first drive. And I was like, shit in my pants all the whole time. It was horrible. Driving through West Hollywood. I can't drive in America anyway. I can't do the my brain just can't go, wait. This is just opposite. But then there's been a bunch of bandwagon drivers we've had to get rid of

because if they're not a good bandwagon driver, you just can't fucking sleep. When you get a good one, I can sleep all right. But if you're just a normal driver, like you guys probably were, it's fucking hell. But I do love having the shower. I prefer it to a bus.

Same. Do you get a good driver? I'll prefer it to a bus. I see what you mean, yeah, because with buses, you need to like shower in the venues, right? So unless you're on a massive tour with massive venues and great showers.

Like, um, love the Barrowlands, right? We've obviously playing it tonight, played it last night. But like, have you seen the support room shower? It is funny as fuck. It's like four foot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, it's like four foot tall. You're kind of gonna go like under to get in.

This tall to shower. Yeah, and you have to go through the merch. But if you're in a bandwagon, obviously like, okay, I'll just, I'll just, I'm just sharing things. But yeah, being on a second green room. Yeah, it's, yeah. Love it. Do you want to do a dream festival?

Could? I just know it. I could do it in like two minutes. Yeah, just pipe it out quick and then we'll be done. So it'd probably be in Australia. It'd be in Melbourne. See, this is what everyone says. That's why I stopped doing it.

It's the best. Yeah, it's best. It's just the best, though. It's the best. But there'd be like four days off before. Because the last Australia tour we did, we did like four days off. So did we bang in Melbourne. Yeah, in Melbourne, best city, man.

I drank so much coffee. It was fucking absolutely mental. Bliss. Manchester Press. Shout out of Manchester Press. Fucking sick coffee. Yeah, it would be in Melbourne. And then, because you always do a thing where it's we have to play.

He's a fan. He's a fan of the part. He's a real one. He's a real one. I love that. So it would be stacked. Oh, I don't know if I want to put Stackdress first now. I want Stackdress on it because it's like ultimate hang with Stackdress.

Yeah, they're our best. So it's like, I feel like you and Sam Ogden are like weird, weird drummer brothers. They literally are, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. He's just a ginger ash. Yeah. My joke is that like they stopped.

You know the Tyson Fury? They stopped making them when they made me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They tried it again with Sam and then they were like no more. That's my joke with that. That's funny. But yeah, the first three would be like a mix between. Static dress, us and then Thorn Hill.

So it's like, love those three bands. Yeah, that's the given. And then the top three is, and it's Dream Festival, so I can, I'm allowed to play it. Green Day playing American Idiot, but Trey Cool is stuck in America, and I get to play all of American Idiot. Perfect.

Could you do it on a fucking dime? They called me up now, and they're like, Hey, Ash, can you? We've got to, we're playing American Idiot in full tonight. You could do it. Yeah, I could do it like now. How old are you? I'm fair.

Yeah, so it was a formative drum album. Yeah, it was the first album I bought, so... Fuck it was a lot of other people's, yeah. That's a pretty cool first album though. And I used to play along to it to the CD in a conservatory with my drums, and I just used to learn that. I like all of it. All the Jesus of Suburbia Phil's just a lot, man.

I got it. Nice. I think my one of those was Queens of Stone Age songs of Death. Nice. Yeah, that was my like... Dude, Queens, man. I didn't get... Little Sister was always one of my favorite songs.

And then, like, I was, recently got into their later stuff. I can't believe how good it is. Really fucking good. There's just a lot of it. Yeah. And the one, like, uh, clockwork, right? Yeah, yeah. I can't believe how like consistent. Like, for me now, I'm like, fuck man. Like, them and death tones with diamond eyes, Kono Yolkan, like, it's insane that they've both had like, almost like career high albums, like decades later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Anyway, sorry. Go on. I knew how she got. And then Paramour with Connor. Marimor with Connor. You're just getting all the, all these

Grammers are just stuck somewhere. Honestly, it's just my dream festival, was me stood side stage for the whole thing, just watching everyone play. That's my, like, I love doing that. I do love to watch Carnar play. That's like the perk of doing this. That's the only thing that I'm like,

if I can, like, I've done it almost every night in this tour. I've watched Lonnie play every night, and I'm like, fuck. It's just like the best thing in the world. You just like, just watch them, just steal shit. I was drum taking for funeral for a friend last year and I got to watch my sugar side stage for that. It was the first time I'd ever seen him.

And part of me was like, do I want to go out of the front? Because I know they sound amazing or do I just sit and watch Tom for like 30 minutes and just get a masterclass. Yeah, we did a couple of shows with them on our last summer run, like side shows.

And I think I watched out front for the show, the actual club show we played just because I wanted to see, you know, I wanted to be able to hear. Yeah, side stage is ass now, I know, it's really bad. I did, their drum tech, Jimmy is just such a fucking nice dude. dude, he was just like,

did you watch side stage? Because I wanted to watch FutureBee Machine. Yeah. And I was like, no, I didn't. And then when they played, they headlined one of the stages at Full Force, I think it was. And he, like, text me and was just like, hey man, come up to the stage and then like, let me on.

And then I watched it. Just I watched it, not even side stage, behind. Just, fuck. Watch the whole fucking thing. Freak. Freak show. What's your catering, though?

You're missing out on big things. My catering is like an all-day brunch. so it's like in Australia though is it when we are yeah imagine that man like Australian coffee all day breakfast

bangin yeah yeah yeah yeah pancakes what you drinking you're drinking are you a drinker no I've been sober for six and a half years nice good for you

no well because of my voice I don't drink on tour so it's like and then when I get home I binge drink nice because I miss being drunk I did do it that way around

and now and then I flipped it yeah did drinking on tour sober at home and then now I'm like real I'll drink if we've got a day off and then at home I don't drink like I think yesterday's the podcast before yesterday's was the first time I've had a drinking I had a whiskey with I guess but it's the first time I had a real drinking like six weeks I just sleep better and I'm mentally better because of it I just think I'm still in that point in my life

where like when I'm home I'm like bored all the time like that's bad in it I'm 29 so I'm baby face yeah good for you but um that was a compliment baby face yeah no no yeah um but yeah No, on the road, though, I never drink. Like, I go sober pretty much for the whole thing. Like, I haven't drunk, yeah, I haven't drunk a drip all. No, I, have I? I don't know. No, I'd want to do.

But, like, but, like, but yeah, I think, like, for me, it's, like, because of what I do, vocally, it's, like, a lot of maintenance and, like, just, like, you know. And so, even, I have really bad acid reflux. I have awful asleep. All the vocalist shit. Yeah, it sucks. So, like, I just, I don't know how people drink on the road as vocalists. Brendan Murphy.

Prime example. Oh, dude. Well, this is actually. Because, oh, he's quit now, but who know? Sam, Sam, okay, fair. But Brendan, I remember when we first met him. So kind of really random, but like I said, we were in a band before this band. But like in 2013, Brendan featured on a song of ours.

Like, no, we were like the smallest band in the world, but we were massive counterparts fans. I got a counterpart to start too, like one of my favorite bands. Get that in the camera. Fuck yeah. Yeah. But yeah, but it's funny because he stayed on Scott's couch in like 2012 and they did the Yordemise tour. And we... Like me.

I was a while ago. Yeah. And we were just like, bro, like, you know, could you feature on a song? I think he,

I think we paid him 100 quid. And like, what a legend. But anyway, at that point, um, he was straight edge.

Yeah. So it was really random. Yeah, yeah, there was a long, yeah. But I remember when he like, oh,

I thought, you know, it was straight. The opposite now. Yeah. And what's your after show party then? As a sober man? There isn't one.

There isn't one. Everyone's done by 10. I don't, It's kind of, that's that old man dream festival. Okay, I'm in. That was lovely. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having.

I hope the rest of your tour is wonderful. And yeah, cheers, guys. Thanks, mate. Thanks, Simon.