The Downbeat - Jerry Horton (Papa Roach)

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

My guest this week is Jerry Horton, guitarist and founding member of the massively successful rock band Papa Roach. We talk about their pivotal role in creating what is now known as ’Nu Metal’ and their resilience to that genre‘s somewhat bad connotations that has seen them remain successful and relevant for 30 (THIRTY) years. We also talk CARS, PRIMUS, METALLICA, and much more.

I was about to sing a Christmas song, right? And the first song that came into my head was about sunshine, which is not Christmas unless you're in Australia. I want to wish you a Merry Christmas because it's coming up. I want to wish you a Jerry Christmas because this guest is called Jerry. I want to wish you a happy holidays if you don't celebrate Christmas. A bit weird that we all celebrate Christmas, even if we're not Christian, but they do get us with the presents when we're kids, don't know.

I want to wish you a happy nothing if you're a bit. not doing anything and you hate it. I could wish you all these things all day, but we've got a lot to get through. So let's just get it done. Let's just get it quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. Before I tell you about my wonderful guest today on the Downbeat podcast, let's quickly talk about the sponsor of today's podcast, Displate. Displate make metal posters. They mount on the wall with a magnet. No drilling, no messing your wall up, no pulling a wall down. Fun fact, trying to mount a TV in my old flat I actually pulled a wall down. Ever since then I've learned how to do it properly.

With mounting pictures, what I do now is just use displays. They mount on the wall with a magnet. As I said, you attach the protective leaf to the wall, then you attach the magnet, and then you attach the display. Because they are magnetic, you can swap them out. You can get a code, downbeat on display.com, you can get 20% off 1 to 2 displays, or you can get 30% off three or more.

three or more. If you buy three or more, you can interchange them because of the magnet. There's no mess. Your landlord's not even going to know about it. All these Nashville ones, you're about to see the ones in the background of this Nashville podcast. If you're watching on YouTube.com, please subscribe. The person who rented me the Airbnb didn't even know that I had stuff on the walls because it didn't even mark. It was amazing. Displate.com. Use the code downbeat. It supports me. It supports the podcast. My guest, this was. week is Jerry Horton, guitarist O.G. member of Papa Roach. We talked about them being one of the pioneering bands of the new metal scene in the 90s. He hates that word. He's very annoyed about

that word. We talk about that. Talk about the dirty word new metal. Talk about their new album ego trip. We bring justice to the band Primus because they're wicked and some people think crap, they are the best. One of the reasons that I started playing drums, Tim Alexander. And Brain, actually. Great. I won't spoil it. You want to listen to the podcast. Let's talk about Primus. We talked about Paparoach, always bringing cool young bands on their tours. And we talked about cars. The man's a car nut. He's Jerry Horton of Paperoach on the Downbeat podcast. Reverend Jerry Allen, Hornton. That is correct. Yes. Yes. How are you? Great, man. How are you?

I'm so good. Thank you for coming on the downbeat. Absolutely. I mean, are you Nashville like from the start or have you moved here? We're NorCal. Yeah. But I moved here about a year and a half ago. Oh, pretty recently.

Yep. How are you enjoying it? I like it apart from the obvious humidity in the summertime anyway. I love. I love the weather, bro. See, your dress for the studio. I'm dressed for outside had I been smart

I would have no do you know what some pants on do you know what though I was in shorts I did two episodes yesterday both in shorts yeah and uh it was just because I was like I can't do a full eight episode running shorts so I just put these on literally

one second you text me and I said I'll be down in a minute yeah and I put these on okay I did turn the AC off though so hopefully you're not too cold you know what's funny is we did that tour in Europe over the summer and all of June. And then right from there, I met my family in Spain. So I got used to no air conditioning, flew straight from there to Canada. And actually, I think it was Chicago.

They had the, the, the AC was set for, it was 60 degrees in the room. Oh, Hawaii. Chili. set for 50, which I didn't realize could even be done. Yeah, that's cold. But I totally pulled a European, like, turn the AC off, open the window. And I'm just, it took me a second to realize that, wait, what did I just do? That's not normal.

But I got used to it. Just being there for that long, you get used to it, I guess. It is. I literally had this conversation with Tom Williams yesterday on this podcast. So depending on which one comes out first, people would be like, these motherfuckers just talk about AC. It's a serious. Issue. It really is. In Europe. And everyone's excuse, I'm from Europe. You just get used to it. Or they go, yeah, but it's really cold for half a year. What do you think Nashville is like in the summer? Like New York is colder. Sorry, in the winter. New York is colder in the winter. But it's ridiculous. Still got AC. Yeah. I'm thinking I'm going to get AC in my apartment in the UK, which is like unheard of. Right. Everybody's going to come over and look at you like, what did you do that for?

This guy, I'll be like, you coming over at summer? In fact, no, I live in Scotland. There is no point. There's literally no point. I think one day this summer, I've gone, oh, it's almost hot. That's a good one. It's almost hot here. Yeah.

It's, we did on that run. I'm going to get into that run because does that mean how long he's been home? Because that run was last month. I've been home four days. Holy shit. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. I wouldn't be fucking.

doing it. I appreciate that. Oh good. So you did because we were on the same run together and I do want to touch on this later on because you guys like bring out you just bring out like I was going to sound like I'm flexing

myself here but like you bring out cool cool like way more unheard of bands and you on that run I saw all your side shows were like just cool stuff and I saw you're doing did you do spirit box side shows on that or you're doing some spirit box stuff coming up we will be yeah yeah and like but i think we did a couple actually on that on the last one yeah yeah it's like

we for anyone that doesn't know we just did a festival tour you just did a festival tour yeah everyone does the festival tours in the summer the issue that you have is that the shows in between you can't really do just festivals you need shows in between and they are usually vastly underpopulated because everyone's going to a festival at the end yeah absolutely but you guys picked us for some side shows yeah thank you for that yeah and they were awesome and they were slam it was incredible yeah it did help that uh we canceled a few of the the dates just just before the lockdown. And so...

Holy shit, that's a long time. It is a long time ago. And so I think that's why, you know, people really like said, wow, we got to get there. Was that the first time back since the pandemic? Yep. Holy shit.

Yep. Oh, wow. No wonder. Yeah. So it was painful, you know, on the lead up to it. Just because Europe is a big part of our touring business. Yeah.

But, you know, we, we were diligent about filling in, you know, being strategic on filling in other places, Australia and all that stuff. And then that, you know, this was going to be our big bang back in. It was a bang. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I stood on stage. I can't remember what festival it was. One, like, maybe Nova Rock.

And I stood on stage because you guys were. kind enough to give me a stage pass. I was like, I'm going to watch Paparoach side stage. And it was just like me. And there was like a tape around me. I was like, what I know that that's for? And then three songs before the end, like I need to get set

on fire. It was fucking crazy. Yeah, and we didn't rehearse with it either. And that was our first time with Pyrot. So it was just like first song and all of us were just like that's your first time.

That was your first time with Piero. Yeah. That's surprising me. Yeah. So, yeah, I was just like, oh shit, here we go. You know, just go with it. And then I don't want to say the first two shows, there were a couple of instances where Jacoby was like straddled over one of the jets. And, you know, obviously we have a guy there to have a kill switch or whatever. But you can see on video our stage manager kind of creeping in and trying to be like not, hey.

Stop, stop, but, but it wasn't like, it wasn't effective at all. He was just kind of like, get away, get away, get away. And then he had to jump out and we were just all laughing. They're like, nobody's going to be mad if you save a guy from getting his fucking facebone. It was Nova Rock was I smell Kobe's hair. Yeah, that's right. I literally smell it on stage. It smells like hair.

Oh my God. That must have been closed. Well, he puts like 10 layers of hair spray in his hair. There's just, he's a fucking walking bomb threat on. the stage. We call them kindling. I got a question that was loads later on, but while we're on this, because you said that's the first time without pyro. Yeah. A band of like your, you know, a claim, oh, geez. Is there anything you haven't done yet that you still want to do? Because that surprises me that you haven't done like that. Pyrro is a smaller one, I guess, but even stuff like that,

that surprises me that you haven't done pirou. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, it's a case of you know we want to we want to when we do something we want to do it right and to do it right is expensive yeah and we're you know we we all have families so we got to like we can't say oh we're just going to spend all our money on production you know we got to find a balance and it's obviously it's no fun being trying to be practical and yeah you know that kind of frugal frugal exactly um so you know we've just been walking that line for years and you know worked out the numbers and said this is going to be our big pop and uh you know we're going on tour later uh and later this month uh we shine down and we're not doing it because i mean they they they do so much

production it's kind of like what's the point but um so yeah we're that was like we're going to do that. And then as far as like stuff that we haven't done, I mean, you know, we talked about doing confetti. Yeah. Which would be cool.

You know, there's, there's like the toaster gag is something that we want to do, I'm sure, but. What's the toaster gag? It's when you have, you have your built staging and then, uh, you come up through the, like out of the stage.

Yeah. That's Jacobi's like wet dream right there. There we go. Yeah, that's the sort of thing I'm talking about. So that's, I even meant just like, like, like, is you got platinum records? Yeah. That's off there. You've got that.

There's nothing above platinum, is there? Well, there's diamond, but, you know, that's 10 times platinum. Yeah. Grammy, you got a Grammy? No Grammys. We got nominated. Let me write that one down for you. Grammy.

You got nominated a few times. We got nominated. for in 2000 I think one or two for best new artist and best video we got the the nomination for the video for broken home yeah which which is not an easy watch yeah but it's still to this day one of my favorite videos it's a bangin video uh marco seaga directed um he's old school new york hardcore hardcore oh really uh yeah he was the band, a punk band for years, moved over to directing videos, he directed Last Resort

and Broken Home. Literally, like, videos of my youth. I mean, yeah. Oh, I got to know something. I got to know something from the last resort video. Okay. Were there silences on the drum kit? Was it completely...

Because I remember when I was a kid, there was like, I know, obviously, you're not the drum guy, but you're the OG guy. but like when I was a kid the drum heads in the last resort video were black and that was before

you could get black drum heads so at the time I remember just thinking oh the drumheads are black that's really cool and then as I got older I did a couple of videos where they put black silencers

on the drum kit my brain just went is the last resort video really quiet can you remember I'm pretty sure they were yes that's like a childhood like

I needed a childhood sorry I'm how old are you you look young 48 48 yeah you look good bro thank you I used to be the old guy in the band yeah now Tony is now Tony how was Tony

we don't want to age shame him 53 he's he's OG punk do you know what though there's like yeah he was in like good he paid in good rins for a bit didn't he he I think he did a stint with him He was in 10 foot pole,

Pulley, he was in unwritten law for a while. You know what? There's something to be said about like, I feel like musicians just age better. No offense. No, it's true. It's true. Having fun your whole life.

That's what it is. Yeah. And, you know, we obviously keep our active on stage. He was late as well because he was at the gym. Yeah. Which is good. I respect that. I'll take that every day of the week.

But yeah, I mean, we're work out. We go nuts on stage and, you know. Is anyone, Jacoby's sober? Yeah. Are you? Yes. And I don't know. I know Tony's not because obviously Tony's not.

He spent a lot of the summer with that guy. Yeah, this whole last tour, he complained that he was the only one that was drinking on the bus. He didn't, didn't even have crew. guys to drink with. Really? Oh, it's bullshit. Like, I can literally imagine him saying that. Yeah. Who's the guy in the band that must like, oh, sorry, while we're still on the age stuff, sorry, my brain goes ADHD brain. Yeah. Um, but now you've got like on stage, you've got some, you've got some young guns on stage. There's a spread. How old's Twan? Oh, he's the young. He's like, younger than me. He's the baby. He's 30, 33. He's 20 years younger than. He's. He's 20 years younger than

Tony. Wow. That's kind of awesome. He's 10 years younger than Tobin, 20 years younger than Tony. That's a good spread. That must be a good spread for like, just going to bring me on to my next question. Good spread for like just keeping in touch with like creativity. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Because my next question was going to be who's the guy in the band that has their fucking finger on the pulse? Because one of you does or is it all of you? Because it's mostly Tobin.

and Twan are like, you know. Because you guys bring like, ego trip sounds like it could be made by a band that doesn't have a 53 year old member. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Yeah, and the producers that we work with, too. Like Colin, Colin, Britain and Nick for along, those are the guys that did Cricket Teeth,

who do you trust and ego trip? And we also, you know, step out and um jason abigan is another guy amazing producer uh drew folk um yeah you've got the that's like 18 yeah just has there ever been any like because you guys absolutely blew up new metal if for some reason you're listening you don't know who paparoach is then congratulations you'd have been living under a rock but like you came up with new Is it a naughty word for me to say new metal? Are you cool with it?

It used to be, we used to hate it. Yeah, I know. You know, but like the new metal era. Yeah, it's,

yeah. You were like, you know, in it, pioneers, part of creating the sound, part of doing everything. Was there any resilience?

Fucking professional with my phone, not on silent. Was there ever any resilience? Because you've pretty much banged out albums every two years since then. Pretty much. Was there ever a point where you were resilient to changing or any kind of technology stuff? I mean, even before last resort, we've always evolved.

We didn't really, I mean, as early, I think as, well, you take infest, you know, we had DJ AM on there. Lepe tragedy. We had, you know, some keyboards here and there. And that was like, rock bands don't do that, you know? Yeah, was that like a conversation you had to have? Or you guys were all up for it? No, we were cool. Yeah.

And then, you know, we, uh, getting away with murder, we brought in, you know, drum loops. And yeah, so we've always like changed, brought in new stuff. And then really like, I think it wasn't until. I want to say 2012 where we really like brought in electronic stuff

yeah so was the show did the show move to because obviously the show is now I mean you could blow my mind and say it's not but I assume the show is now time coded metronome uh it is

yeah yeah at what point did that start uh that was yeah that was probably 2017 ish. And to be honest that that's the one thing that I see with artists who

are reluctant to do that stuff particularly a lot of the bands who are like when you were coming up who are oh fuck that click shit they just fucking drop they it's it's a hard thing to navigate if you don't use the click because when

you get up on stage it's a completely different feel from being in the studio or just jamming Yeah. Because the adrenaline is so high that almost invariably you're, you end up playing at least three to four BPMs faster than is on the record or then really you have any business doing. So it's just, you know, it's a kind of a, it's a, it's a, it's a way to regulate ourselves.

And just to, to kind of keep at a certain pace. And, you know, the way that we use. the time code and the tracks is really you know we have some of those backing tracks that are that people are familiar with on a subconscious level you know we have it in the mix but we don't like the main guitars is all obviously the guitars are the guitars you know there's there's no like main instruments on on tracks yeah Twan's got his keyboards and his drums and playing everything you know we're playing as much as we can uh but you know we don't have we like we have the the born for greatness when he has the the octave

vocal drum that's on the track yeah just can't do that live yeah but you know anything like like little flavor or percussion thing that you know that's there it's under as a support base yeah if the and and really it comes down to we do that because not only would it would we we we would we we would feel like we're you know cheapen out yeah uh and we want to give obviously give the fans that what they came for um but also if it goes down we can still jam yeah and it's not any can it's yeah it's not gonna be like well what yeah you know so canceling a show yeah and then we don't cancel a show yeah so has it ever gone down Yeah.

I mean, not for, not for, not for the whole set. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you just, well, you just freeze. I mean, you've got everything on stage to finish the rest of the song. Yeah. And also, people don't realize back to the production thing. Like, you didn't need, obviously, maybe on a, you know, friendship,

musicianship level, you need Twan. But you didn't need, like, a lot of people would have everything he does on tracks. Not everything, but like, you know, it's the keyboards and stuff like that. It would be easy for you to just have one less member. Yeah. And save more money. Yeah. That's expensive.

Yep. And then the production is so expensive. Yeah. Like, Pyrot is insane. That's why. That's why we did it for that one. It was the big festival tour. And then now we're not.

No, people don't even know the level of how expensive pyro. Yeah. It's take the number you think it isn't out of Zipro. Yeah, it's insane for sure safety the actual cost of fire I guess all that shit. Yeah, the transport has to be insanely safe. Yeah. Not. But yeah, I mean, we could have all the keyboards, you know, all the backing guitars. We could have all that on track, but there comes a certain point where sometimes we want to add something into the set. and it's it goes along with a song but it's not something we have recorded and it's just it

kind of allows us to be nimble and adjust and change things and we don't necessarily like change things every night but it it just gives us a certain level of freedom if somebody's not working you can change it out for a different song without yeah or Or if we need to jam, like if Jacoby's stuck out in the crowd or whatever, and we got to jam something, we can jam, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah, he does like to scoot around up there. Yeah. Something I love to ask people on the downbeat, particularly, I'm trying to think of the right word, because I don't want to, like, make you feel old. But, like, you're an OG.

Yeah. OGs, OG's a better time than any of my own. So, like, how does a paperoche song come about? Like, what is the songwriting process? It's changed over the years. You know, we've gotten to a point where we have what we call the Rift Bank, where everybody kind of pulls in what they got. And we, when we get together, we'll just,

pull it up. Is that like on a fucking drop box or something? Yeah, I mean, sometimes we'll do that. I'll let Tobin will just bring his stuff and just start playing stuff and we'll go, no, no, no, yeah, that one. And then we'll get to work on it. Also, you know, with Colin and Nick, you know, we'll just get in and say, you know, we'll just start talking about it.

Yeah. What do we want? We want, you know, jump tempo. We want major key, blah, blah, blah. what do we want you know and then build it from the ground up with the producer yep that's what we usually come into we'll come into uh almost the same really we'll come into well studio with like me and tom have five songs that are we think this is done and then we have a bunch of riffs yeah but then sometimes we'll get like you know we've written most of the album and we don't really have a fast song and then

it's just like you said pick the tempo cycle pick tempo 220 to BPM and then and then we'll go play something dumb and then I'll play that and then I'm like okay that's that's fine nice but back in infest era

how were you writing then was that like jamming in the jam room jam yeah yeah no click just jamming who came up with last resort Tobin he actually wrote it on the piano What? Yeah. He had a piano in his, you know, his mom's house.

Yeah. Because he was, I mean, I don't know it. Because he was 17. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah, he's like, you know, he played us the thing on the piano. And he's like, just imagine like a hip-hop beat, you know. Do-don.

And so he started playing it. And he's like, just think about this on a guitar. That's so cool. Yeah. That's so, I can't even imagine what that would sound like. But it must have been good enough for you guys to be like, yeah, that's the one. I mean, we were all Wu-Tang, so it was just like, let's go, you know. That's so awesome.

Yeah. Man, it's rare that, and again, I don't want to mean you feel old, bro, but it's rare that I get someone who's been through it. Yeah. You've been through it. Been through a lot. Infest was on. compact disc. It was on cassette.

I was about to say, was it that long ago that was on cassette as well? Yeah, it was a tail end of cassettes, yeah. So without, you know, without being too nosy,

he made bank from Infest. We made a good chunk of change, yeah. Because that was the tail end of the music industry. Yeah, we know it. Yep.

And then... We made money, but we spent it like it was just always, going to be there and the funny thing is like it wasn't until we got on tour so first major tour was warp tour 2000 uh jumped from that to corn with what was it was it power man 5,000 or something that was on that too I know it wasn't that like there's 2001 like a head bangers ball or something

like yeah I think I remember that this is I was out of 14 this is prime me yeah so uh on that tour they were like you know took us under under their wing and said they were to calling us grasshopper the whole time grasshopper we show you the way it's corn yeah uh fieldy was like i'm i'm gonna show you guys everything and he like showed because i don't party but the rest of the guys they were like rode his bus and it was you know the next day waking up at 3 p.m., 4 p.m. And it was bad. But also he was like,

yo, you guys like, most bands really like take a long time to build their career. You guys just went straight up like that. So you got to be smart with your money because it's not always going to be there. And we were like, yeah.

Whatever feeling from corn. Yeah, I mean, look. Yeah, whatever feeling from corn, who, who ships crates of Coors Light over to Europe because they can't. No way. I swear. They did that for a while.

That's fucking sick. Yeah. But it's not even like a great beer. No, it's shitty beer, but that's what they wanted. So they spent the money to get it. That's nuts. Did you, so you don't party. I mean, you, you know, partying is a subjective thing.

I hang out. You hang out. Yeah. But like, when you were in, Like, I guess big money label deal back then. Did you buy anything dumb? Did you do anything like? I mean, I bought a, I bought a car.

I spend my money. Like, I don't spend my money on cars, but that's my, that's my thing. Cars are your thing? Yeah. Fucking awesome. Let's go. What was, so did you have like a moment when you signed that? What's the, was it Dreamworks?

Yeah. When you sign that deal, you don't have to tell me how the deal was. Unless you want to tell me. The deal, I think it was like the last, one of the last, like, big deals for a rock band. Yeah. It was like a million dollar deal. But, you know, obviously that's like, you have to pay it back as well. You got to pay it back.

And that's like album budget, video budget, touring budget. Like, it's all, we got a little money from that. And those videos were not cheap. I'm going to tell you what, the most expensive. I want to ask you what the most expensive video you think we made was. and you probably won't I can guarantee you're not going to guess it I would have guessed one of those two

nope they were expensive last resort was 250 I mean that is expensive but in that era it wasn't yeah I guess it was pretty normal

but that coming off of a million dollar deal like that's that it wasn't on that record oh I'm not going to get it Tell me. She loves me not. What?

We hire, they hired Dave Myers who did all the, um, Missy Elliott and the Buster rhymes. Oh, that prime early 2000s videos. Yeah. So we hired that guy and he took this empty lot in downtown L.A. Yeah. And basically turned it into a carnival,

like brought everything in extras, actors. It was like 600 grand. Jesus. Yeah. That's crazy. People, just in case you don't know. Because some people, a lot of people listen to this who were like musicians, a lot of people just like music.

Yeah. And a lot of people who are musicians, but in very small bands, they don't realize it. That just doesn't happen anymore. Nope. I mean, not on that, I mean, you would have to, you'd have to be. I don't even think they would now. No, they do, I'm sure. Do they?

Yeah. I'm trying to think what, like Jay Z would. That would be. That would be normal. I always wonder with that, though, like, are the managers at the top there? I don't know any of them before anyone comes to me. But, like, I don't want managers like. They probably go, like, I know how much that camera costs.

I'll give you less. Or is it Jay-Z? You just go in, I want this. I don't care how much money it costs. I'm not asking you this. Yeah, I mean, hypothetical. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

So what was the, like, Obviously, you get the million dollar deal. If any of this is too personal or lame or whatever, just tell me. So you get the million dollar deal. I assume you all take a bit. Yeah, I mean, it was, like I said, we were able at that point to quit our jobs. And so we got in the studio, went to work. And then we were on the road in a van for probably,

three months. On In Fest? Yeah. Van. Yeah. And because, you know, nobody knew, like, was, there wasn't, there was no internet, basically. Crazy, yeah. So the only way that people were going to get to know music was either by word of mouth or by radio or MTV.

Yeah. So it was, you know, we had, in fact, or last resort went to radio. the album came out i think in april and last resort started i think we put it out in maybe february or maybe march but there was still like it was it it was like a it's like a slow build and then so it didn't really like really kick off until we got on war tour right And then at that point, it was just like, yeah, the trajectory was like this and then. So. It was just like overnight.

Yeah, it was like we, when we booked the warp tour, we were set for the third stage at noon. And within two weeks, we were headlining. Yeah, that's a big jump. With Green Day and no effects. That's so cool. And it was like, and they were cool. like obviously they they had every right to just go what the fuck who are these kids and why the hell are they why are we having to share our spot with them but fat mike would just rib us on

stage and it was you know it was cool are you boys with them was it no no we're not super tight with them but they were they were cool about it and and it was yeah it was a good time uh the funny thing is we were more like starstruck on snapcase than any other any other band there so yeah you this is interesting because you're you what's your background with musical influences well it started from for me it was metallic and slayer and i mean testament sepulturra oh you're heavy yeah heavy guy nine nice nails skinny puppy literally listing all the bands that i like really and and the other guys were like chili peppers P-Funk

Fugazi James Mr. Bungle So they were they were end of more like funky punky weird shit There's an EP isn't there Or like pre-infest

Yeah That's like funky Yeah Superfired I'm sorry I can't remember what it's called I mean I'm not gonna say what it is I don't need any more any more people go and listen to it

Right okay yeah sorry I'm sorry But yeah the Mr. Bongo, Jesus. Yeah, so, and I've told the story a bunch of times, but I'm going to tell it here just because you'll appreciate it. I would love it. We, like,

they were a band before I joined the band. Like, they were a band maybe a month and a half before I joined, and it was obviously a different drummer, Dave Buckner. Jacobi, different bass player, trombone player.

no guitar player oh my god i didn't even realize no guitar player so and and we had mutual friends uh we went to different schools had mutual friends so we would you know would go to parties and my my friend had them play at his house so i went and i watched them and you know i was hanging out with some friends and i was just like cool that's fun but not my thing you know not my thing is a bassist than a fucking trombone. And fun fact, they recovered fire by Jimmy Hendricks with no... With no guitar.

Yeah. So after that... You're so lucky that the internet didn't exist. Sorry, carry on. So after that, like a week or so after that, Jacobi called me up and he goes, he knew the girl I was dating at the time. And he said, hey man,

I heard you play guitar why don't you come over and jam with us and I was like I'm good thanks because I was metal I did not find that really appealing at all and he was just like

you know he called me four times after that and he's like the last time he was like come on I know you don't have shit to do you're in your bedroom playing by yourself

come on and I was like fine I just wanted to shut him up I was like fine you know so We went and jammed and it wasn't like sparks flying, you know, but it was fun. Something to do. And it was something to do because the town we grew up in was Vacaville, California, and we also called it lack of thrill.

So, you know, it was just we were bored. And it was fun. I was like, you know what? Fuck it. We'll just try and make, see how it goes. Try and make things work and, you know, mix of styles or whatever. And, you know, we just kept doing it for fun. and eventually got serious about it.

How did you get rid of the trombone player? He kind of saw himself out. Like he was like... When you got that? Because he was like a big, he was a big stoner. We tried to like make it work, but it was kind of obvious to everybody. It just, because we weren't going for a ska thing.

Yeah. And it was just kind of like, ah, it's not the sound anymore. So... Arguably, it was never the sound like a fucking trombone. Yeah. I've got to say this because everyone gets annoyed, but I don't care because it's my platform. Anytime anyone says Metallica, anytime anyone says Metallica, I need the ranking of your top five Metallicas. Okay. How many?

How many? Top five. I would argue that there are a top, there is a top 10 of great Metallica albums. Okay. But I want the top five. And your first answer, it usually dictates the conversation. Okay. well there are two different sets for me there's the set of when i got into them and sort of like because

you know when you nostalgia is a powerful thing right oh yeah so something that hits you at just the right time it's just going to stick in there and it's going to be hard even though there's other stuff that's better you just have that emotional attachment to it you know yeah so for me it was justice was number one that was the first thing i got into and that was the first that was the first uh that was my first introduction into them and that was like why i started playing guitar um then it's master then it's ride the lightning and i'm going to piss some people off here it is this is the right this is where it gets to hear those three are normally Yeah.

Interchangeable. And then here is the hot take. Black album. Yeah? Kill them all. My list is the same. Depending on how I'm feeling. Yeah.

Lightning and Puppets. Okay. Flip flops. Yeah. Because I feel like lightning for me is like a hardcore album almost. Totally. Like you listen to. Yep.

Creeping death or anything. It's like a hardcore band is doing that now. Yeah. But I remember the first time I heard an acoustic guitar before metal. Yeah, master of puppets. And I was just like, wait, you can do that. I mean, it wasn't like a trombone or anything. I was like, wait a minute, you can do that.

That was cool. It was cool. That was my personal, like, I went in, I got into Metallica and then I went from Metallica straight to black metal because S&M had come out. first Metallica, I heard Metallica on like Beavis and Biden and stuff like that's how I got into it. But then S&M came out and I was like, oh, Metallica with an orchestra, that would be cool. And then I got it and I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever heard. I wonder if there's another band like this.

And then I googled it and then like emperor came up. And I was like, oh, the drums are so fast. And then that was it. And then I was down on my like symphonic black metal thing. Nice. So I like flip-flopped everywhere Because before that I was I loved

What When new metal was a naughty word What did you call paparote Well We were just We were just We were kind of contrarians at the time Like we just wanted to be called a rock band

We didn't We didn't Like we didn't We didn't See ourselves As being that forever Hmm So

Which didn't happen Anyway, we didn't, yeah, I mean, we didn't want, we just didn't want to be boxed in, like, because we had to evolve from something else into that. Oh, something else. Yeah, it was something else. It, it, we knew that we were going to change. And obviously the common denominator was going to be rock. So we were just going to be a rock band. And that's what all we, we wanted to be.

We, we kind of just, we didn't want to become a parody. of ourselves. Yeah. And so that we saw that as kind of like, you know, because when a, when a genre sort of jumps in popularity and then fades out, it's like when you're, when you're seen as the has been, it's kind of rough. You have to wait for 20 years for it to come back. Yeah.

But, you know, we, we just, we didn't see ourselves as has been. we still wanted to make music and we were just like we knew even at the peak of infest that as popular as it was like it's on fire

as that was it was going to be a flash in the pen and people were going to be on to the next thing and it was like we got a we're a career band we're on to the next thing we just want to be a rock band that's all just call us a rock band

but I mean it I think it happened. I would say Papa Rich is a rock band. Yeah, I mean. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have said new metal for fucking 15 years. Yeah, I mean, we obviously, you know, because we came up in that time, that's what people will associate us with.

And it's sort of less a dirty word nowadays than it used to be, you know, back in like 2005, six. Yeah, it's like not at the time, at the time it was awesome. And then about five years later, everyone was like, oh, no. Yeah. You know who got away with it? Death tones. They got Scott-free. Absolutely.

Because they were something else. Yeah. You know, they were, I think that is, I would say, us and deaf tones are, more so deaf tones, the two bands that came up in that era and actually, were pioneers of the of the genre yeah but as soon as the genre hit gone out yeah they were immediate yeah and you know they they make real music like real really good music really good consistently yeah so i like i don't i really want ab coming on the podcast at some point like desperate is one of my favorite dramas so i can't ever like i can't ever like i can't ever

don't want you to say anything because they're obviously your friends. I wish, and I hate being this guy because someone said it about our records before and I hate it. I wish I could have a remixed version of Gore. Like, I'm one of those people. I don't know what it is. I can't. If I don't like the production, I can't see past the production.

And Gore, all the songs. Yeah. I love them. Yep. And then I just can't go on. And I like black metal. So I don't know what the problem. Like, I'm just like.

I can't get on board with it. You have to change your perspective. That's it. It's a me problem. It's 100% of a fucking me problem. But then they came back with Holmes and it's, you know, I'm like, we're back, baby. That's show me is.

And like prayers and triangles off gore is honestly one of my favorite Death Tones albums. So I'm talking shit. Don't tell ape. If you're watching this, for whatever reason, ape, please come on here. We have mutual friends of the drum world. I want to talk about founders. foundational nutrition with you guys real quick. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you will know that I have been taking

AG1 for about six months now. In that time, I've got rid of all of my biohacking supplements, my multivitamin, all of that stuff, because all of it is in AG1. That's because AG1 is a foundational nutritional supplement that supports your body's universal needs like gut optimization, stress management and immune support. Since 2010, AG1 has led the future of foundational nutrition, continuously refining their formula to create a smarter, better way to elevate your baseline health. I take one scoop, one little scoop of AG1 with 250 millimetres of water every morning. The former coffee, first things first, let's get the AG1.

Get it in me. Taste nice, right? It's got pleasant pantone to it, like a foreign. green. On tour I use the travel packs. Now on tour as a drummer as you know someone that is opera has to operate at a high level every single day on tour. AG1 is unbelievably helpful because tour is about two things other than music. It's about getting sick and it's about being stressed because you're around so many people all the time. Thanks to the stress adaptogens like aschiganda, thanks to vitamin C, magnesium.

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Check it out Help support me Help support the podcast Help support yourself Come on Do you think that Shaking off the new metal Was

a long process Or did it Was there anything you did To get rid of it Because how do you even go about shaking A term off Yeah, I think we just We knew that we weren't going to

Make people stop saying it It was just like we just got to do We just got to make the music that You know Proves that we're not just that one thing And You know The second album

Love Hate Tragedy was It's a bit dark But it's much more melodic than In Fest And that really like more choracy. A lot more choracy. You know, we went into

like vocal harmonies and explored different tunings and all this new stuff. And it was a it was a creatively like liberating album. And the record label, I think, because Infest was such a

success, they were like, oh, these guys know what they're doing. Let's just let them whatever they want and then record came out and didn't hit like they thought it was going to rough time though when was that like 2003 to two yeah um and it was probably because we didn't put out another infest that it didn't do so well um but i think that we had to go through that to get to getting away with murder uh and like you said that was also the it was like the switch from CDs to downloads and but in the bad time when downloads were free yeah and you know record labels were going bankrupt and being bought up by

other record labels and all that kind of stuff so it was like we didn't know if we were going to have if we were going to make another record you know on Dreamworks or at that point it was Geffen is that you signed a different deal or did you get dropped No we we got moved like our like DreamWork got

basically the whole catalog got bought by Interscope and at that time Geffen was still sort of the rock label and slowly but surely over the you know

2003, 4, 5, 6 Geffen just kind of went away and Interscope got rid of almost all the rock bands so.

Yeah, and they like 90s Interscope was rocking. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, speaking of weird music, I'm like secretly

a massive Primus guy. That's my band. Yeah, really? No way. Oh, yeah. Oh, I fucking love Primus

and like. Come on. Jerry was a race car driver. Oh, now we're talking Tony Hawk soundtracks. Yeah. Come on. Yeah.

Yeah. I saw, I saw Primus in Davis, at UC Davis, and it was like, I'll never forget it. They played with the Melvins. And while we were there watching the Melvins,

and I'm, I look over and, and I, I see, at monitor world I see less and he looks I can see he looks over

and he's just scanning the crowd I think and I see him and he seemed like he stopped at me and he was like what's up? With that fucking massive hand with that fucking massive hands oh man

people forget that a lot of primus haters I don't do you know what I know I don't think I've ever talked about primers in the podcast because everyone fucking hates primers come on tom williams don't even just text him just text him primers fucking rules like he will lose the shit he hates it so fucking much he doesn't know i've tried to turn him on to like like frizzle fry some of the riffs yeah are so fucking heavy yeah base riffs mainly but like yeah you've got a weird thing going on but i love it yeah that was my honestly like love metallic

I loved the super heavy shit. Yeah. But again, the same CD that I bought that had, actually that was a tape, a cassette tape, if anyone doesn't know, it was a plastic piece of machinery that you could play music on. It was a Beavis and Butthead compilation. Oh, okay. Do you know the one I mean? Yeah, yeah.

And it had primus on it. I can't remember what song, but it was something from maybe Frizzle Fry. And I was just like, what the hell is the drumming? Yeah, and that just got me, you know, hooked on drums. Insane. Yeah, ridiculous. For me, it was the, the video, the Jerry was a race car driver video, and they, like, see, that was my first time of really seeing a huge circle pit. Yeah.

And I was just like, just look at all those people just, like, bouncing around in, you know. Is that the woodstock? Is that a woodstock? No, I can't remember that video. No, it was in a club. They shot it and it was a place called the Phoenix Theater in Petaluma. And it wasn't, I mean, it was like 1,500 people. But, I mean, at that time, I didn't. There might as well be a million people.

Yeah, so it was just like, and then going to the show and being in that whole thing, it was just like, it was the best. The Woodstock, 94. my name is mud yeah yeah yeah yeah people just chucking mud on the stage and he just like breaks speaking of production

that was like the first time digital distortion like it almost ruins the sound but it's a thing what like a mastering

no they did it in I think it was in recording oh well my name is mud yeah that you can if you hear if you listen you can hear it yeah you can hear it more at a low volume but it's it's not even like analog distortions it's digital distortion in a really weird in a good

way or bad way don't ruin this for me it i haven't noticed it took me a minute to to get used to it and i didn't like it at first but it if you turned it up it's not as it's not as bad but at first i was like ah i don't know if i like this but i'm going to have to go back to that. Yeah. Check out. I've never seen Primus Live. It's really annoying.

Yeah. Never seen him. And there was that whole period where they had different dramas. Yep. And when I was into them, I was actually too young to go to a show. I was like real, super young. Yeah. Now I would love to.

It's pretty incredible. It's not the same without Tim, though. Wait, is he gone again? No, he's there, but. That's what I mean. Yeah. When I was old enough to go, he had gone. And I loved Brain.

Yeah. I did love Brain. I love like people I like I kind of fell off whatever the green one was like maybe like a 2000 5 I fell off after anti-pop

but like which was brain and the drumming is fucking incredible and some of the wrist in that that was their like little new metal moment yeah yeah but uh the the brown album yeah like it was recorded

with a fucking like I think they bought their own desk and they didn't know how to do it and they just like there's a set up a studio put the mics up just tracked and then was just like print so it sounds like he's recorded in a shoe yeah it's so sick yeah I mean I saw something I saw a quote just recently and it was like I think it was uh Prince said because he was like arguing with his engineer about you know she was like trying to get good sounds and he was like he didn't want to wait for that he was just like just throw it up let's go let's go i need to get it down and he was like people don't buy sounds they buy music except for me and go yeah no well you're still into it

it's a it's a good point people don't people don't buy sounds they buy music yeah yeah that's true yep there is i do have a limit though sometimes sometimes i'm like gore isn't my limit because i still like gore yeah but sometimes i'm like no i agree why did you do that yeah why have you gone done that so i've got a saint anger tattoo this is my dedication i've got uh the word snares off nice with the metallica and i'm like number one i don't know if people know it's one of the loudest albums of all time because of the mastering it was it was in the peak loudness wars yeah but the which we got caught up in did you you got a loud one yeah is it on the top 10 loudest no i don't think so but we were just like i'm fucking searching that was a that was a point of

that was a point of uh that was a note that we added to it was what needs to be louder paramour sessions i think yeah it's got to compete with the you know all the yeah that Do you know what the loudest album of all time is? No. You don't know. In terms of like a mastering, like the whatever they call it, the odd, the DB, whatever, it is. Californication. Really?

Is the loudest mastered album all the time. And when you listen back, I don't know when the last time you listened to Californication was, when you listen back to it and you really, like, and you have a grasp of mastering or whatever, you're like, wow. it is like you can see the waveform just like a fucking like a block I'm trying to get this and I've got I'm trying to pull it up if you're just listening to this

I'm sorry this is dead air I'm not going to get someone to edit it out I'm not going to get it loudness war yes here we go history blah blah blah blah blah blah blah shut up shut up it's all bullshit though anyway because it doesn't really make it louder it doesn't perceived loudness and it just squishes it in fact

I'm off it I'm off the loudness war but St. Anger have you ever heard the I'm low key a St. Anger Apologist but only in my old age

because I bought it when it came out it came out the day I finished school and my mum drove me to buy it and I was like because the song St. Anger first single

at the time I was like Lars is doing double kicks sort of ignored the down tempo bit I was like they might be back yeah

my mom drove me to the store we put it on my mom remembers this to this day like she will if someone mentioned saying she'll be like oh is that the one you didn't like

oh like she remembers and she just remembers my fucking face when it was like even track one And she knows it was just whatever. But this is me defending production, ruining songs. Okay. The song, some kind of monster.

Yeah. The CD, a CD is a compact disc is a metal disc that you used to be able to put in a machine to make music, like a download. It was a five-track EP, but it was just some kind of monster in like alternate live versions or whatever. track five on it you can still see you can still hear on spot five track five on it is labeled alternative mix okay and i'll tell you what the word alternative is carrying a lot here but they might as well just written mixed like it's actually it's actually mixed and it's good oh if they mixed the whole album it wouldn't it would be a seven right see it's just like it goes to show you I mean, no band is perfect.

No band does everything perfectly or right sometimes. But you got any regrets? You got any career regrets musically? I mean, not music. I don't think we have regrets musically. It's just, you know, I think some songs we feel like maybe just didn't get a chance. some songs we thought would be bigger than they were. But, you know, it's all part of the journey.

You don't have a stinker. You've got a pretty nice trajectory. Yeah, I mean. You're about to say there's a stinker. This is what I'm... I mean, I wouldn't say it's a stinker. I think that it's one of those things where time kind of time away from something makes you realize real, like makes you

see some of the good things about it. I think for that, for us is probably Metamorphosis album. What year was it? 2008. That was our peak, like rock. Like, denim and leather,

long hair. Yeah. Classic rock album. Like, Popperoche version of a classic rock album kind of thing. I'll be honest with you, I'm not that familiar with it. But maybe that's why. And there's a reason. The key there is to just keep creating music and then everyone forgets. I forgot. Exactly. I forgot slash didn't know. Except for St. Anger, no one can ever forget St. Anger.

Yeah. They make jokes about it live. I saw them at download. Yeah. I mean, you have to own up to it. It's kind of funny. Yeah. Because James will go like, how about we place and stuff of St. Anger? And then everyone's like, no. And he's like, ah, we're not going to do that. It's like, yeah. The amount of money that went into that album. I'm so sorry that another podcast has devolved to Metallica chat. Yeah. Have you talked about the premise Metallica thing?

Well, Les trying out. I haven't actually talked about it on here, but it's on... It's something that I would love to see on video. Yeah. I don't think it's out there. I don't think... Did they talk about it on some kind of monster of the DVD, but I don't think

that there's like one... It's just a little... They didn't really go into it. Yeah. I feel like they were doing a bit of a, let's just get everyone who's a, who's a somebody in the baseball. Imagine that. Yeah. Imagine, I wonder if he would have stood,

like, because he's got such a, such an ear for production. I wonder if he would have stood for the mix. Probably not. Yeah. No, we're not doing that one. That's my latest's delightful impression.

Yeah. I could talk about Metallica all day. This is the problem. Let's talk about, Let's talk about hobbies because you don't, you're sober. Was that, did that come out of, oh shit, I need to be sober? Or are you SoCal straight edge? Yeah, I'm straight edge without claiming straight edge, basically.

What's the reason for not claiming? Because I don't, I don't. Sometimes smoke a joint. No, it's not that. It's just like, I, you know, I'm not like the guy who, you know, judges other people for what they do, you know. It's just like, I do what I do. and you do what you like and that's cool.

Tom Williams the same way, straight edge without saying straight. Although when he hangs out with straight age people, he claims edge. He does it all the time. So is that from... I had it. It's going to sound silly. I had a drink once when I was like 20. I didn't, I hated the way it tasted, wasn't into it.

But yeah, I never really... jumped into it. So I'm trying to think if, sorry, I like, exhaled there like I fucking didn't agree. I'd fucking, I'd agree.

I've been trying lately to only drink before days off on tour. Okay. And I am so fucking bored. It is insane. So what do you do? What do you? I can't do it. I don't know what to do with myself.

What are you doing on tour? Yeah. I mean, you know, we're uh i have well we have we have we have Tony for entertainment you just all sit and let him perform yeah i mean you know i i'm i'm i'm into cars obviously we're going to get to that because i'm excited uh i do some video games here and there but um on tour it's like you know on days off it's shows and we'll go and like

a group dinner or do sometimes they'll do do shit together but yeah what are you doing like between waking up and sound check i'm actually i'm interested but also i'm like give me ideas bro like i'm going to the gym but that's it yeah that's the it's wake up coffee get get situated in the room gym sound check hang out maybe riff a little bit and show and then after that watch tony drink you just sit around and i mean i remember we were in the arctic's room and you were in there and we were all having a fucking do yeah so i guess that is an entertaining yeah i mean like for me like hanging with my friends who are drinking i'm i have have a blast yeah if it's like people i don't know and

they're like oh yeah it's rough even for a drinker that's rough yeah but i'm cool chilling and actually one of my one of my hobbies is writing down stupid shit that people say nice while they're fucked up and then relate to them later on and then yeah you got a fucking book written for tony i do it used to be i started it about 20 years ago and oh so this is This is not a bit. You're 100% serious. Oh, I'll, I'll rattle some off to you. Yeah, please do. But it, it started, they're called zanny zanis.

And it started when the guys got on the whole. Zan thing. Yeah. And it was. Oh, I've been there. It was like. It's called the zanny zanis. It's so fucking funny.

It was just like, they're saying some really weird shit. I got to start writing this down. Go on hit me. Okay, I gotta get, hold on. Get the Zany Zanis out. The first few years was Tobin was a large part of it. Yeah. But when Tony got in the band.

Tony Zan, Tony Monszana. He completely took over. So this is like, this is probably two, three years ago. I love the fact to see here. Let's get some good ones here. How'd you do that at the same time? What? What exactly are you talking about?

This is a hungover Tony. My eyes hurt. Maybe it's the brain behind them. My eyes hurt. Maybe it's the brain behind this. And that's not even the good ones. It's like funny. It's scientific as well.

It's really. You should release them as like a small book. I've toyed with different ways of doing it. I don't know what it means, but it's the only one that makes sense. This is just like people mashed out of their brains. Yeah. We didn't make poor choices. We made more choices.

I love your life giving it like acting, acting into it. It's got to be. Yeah. I can hear Tony saying all of these in my head. Yeah, there's some that I'll read later to you. Oh, it's really bad. Nice. We'll get those later. We'll get those later.

You want to talk cars? Let's do it. I don't know much about cars. I recently, everyone that's on the Patreon, please continue to give me money. Cover your ears. I recently bought a nice car for the first time in my life. And I was like, wait, what have I been missing out on?

Like, this is sick. So? I got a Audi S3. Nice. which has been tuned. Oh. It has a stage two. Nice.

And then I got 400. 400 exactly. It's 398. Look at you. And it has black window. It's black with black windows, black wheels, black grills. I got it completely decroned. It is.

Look at you. It is. I look like a drug dealer. I mean, you know, that's the goal. Right. I like I've never had a fast car. Yeah. And I've never had a car that I look really like.

It makes me, when I get come down from my apartment and I go to go to the gym and I see my car and I'm just like, it actually makes me proud of myself. Yeah. And then like happy. And I know it's like it's, it. I know there's no possessions. But it's something that actually, actually brings me joy. because I'm like, I fucking did that. Absolutely.

So what car do you got? What car? So it's funny because I, like, my first thing when I bought, you know, when we got some money. That's what I was going to get into. Yeah, I bought a viper. And that was like. In early 2000s. Yeah.

2002. I, that was my dream car, you know, because like the late 80s, it was like, they had that concept car. and it was like, you know, the American supercar, and it was a V10, and, you know, it was just like something that really just scared. Did you have the stripe? I didn't have the stripe. Interesting. You know, it was, it was, the Vipers already a loud car visually. Yeah. So I kind of wanted to, like, stealth it a little bit. What color was it? It was like a graphite gray. I didn't want to go red because that's like just begging for trouble yeah so yeah i had that for a while uh loved it got a

you know got hooked up with a audio company jail audio they decked me out got a you know massive sound system in there and love it um and then at from there i i also got into like old school custom 50s cars and very very so cow yeah Yeah, so it was like it started out for me with like ZZ Top videos. Wow, right. Okay. So there was one, I think it was, what is it, legs. They had the red hot rod.

Yeah. With the ZZ on the side, you know? Yeah, yeah, I know. That's a 34 Ford. and then like late 80s again Billy Givens had a car that he built and this is like really nerd now going in the weeds but there was a builder called Boyd Coddington

he had a show for a while but they built this car called Cadzilla and it was a it started life as a 48 Cadillac but it was so customized that by the end of it, there was only the front bonnet from the catalach, from the actual Cadillac, and the rest was all custom, like, new. Wow.

New body, new frame. And this was the first time that anybody had ever done larger than 20-inch wheels. And they did, it was like, see, it was, this was 1989. 22 inch wheels on this massive custom car. What was it called? Cadzilla with two Zs. Keep talking.

Simon, can we, while we're doing this bit, and you can leave me talking to you in, please, but can we have, please have a picture of Cadzilla up while this is happening?

So when this, like, hit the scene, hit all the magazines, it just hit me in the face. Like, it blew me away. I was like, oh my God.

Like, I got to get in. I'm, I'm into this. This one. Yes. So it sent me down the rabbit hole. And that's where the money went, basically.

On restoring them, or did you buy multiple? No, I bought one. Yeah. And it started out fairly mundane in terms of money and expectations and all that. Yeah. And then just snowballed into something completely different. Did you drive it here today? No.

I have it at the house, but I didn't drive it here. It's just, it's too hot and it takes too much time to get prepped. And, uh, but yeah, that was like the, and, and the one that I bought, it, that's a whole other saga. Okay. That like, I don't want to bore your, your listeners with. It's like, that's, that's for a car podcast, car podcast, yeah. Because it'll be things I don't know. Yeah. So what's your daily driver?

Oh. I have a truck for my daily. Nashville, baby. And I got it. I actually got it while we were still in California. And it's just, it's one of those things where, well, it was kind of a specific thing at the time. Like we had, we lived about two hours from Lake Tahoe. We had a place up there.

And I wanted something that I couldn't. throw some gear in, bring the family up there, not worry about getting stuck in snow. And that was the reason for it. And I just, I had a truck a long time ago and I just, I like it, like throwing shit in the back and it's one of those things. And it's another one of those. It's something that I don't have to worry about because I have my, it's a mercury. It's a custom. Yeah.

Like I have that that I got to worry about. and then I have a 9-11 that I worry about. I was going to get there must be something in the middle here. You were like, I'm into cars. There's this really old car and I drive a truck. I'm like, no, there isn't. There is another one. Yeah.

So the 9-11 and then... What year is the 9-11? Oh, 9. It's a... I got it because it's like a manual. And it's a driver's car. See, manual back home is what most cars are. Yeah.

But I did the opposite to you when I got the Audi. I was like, I want an automatic. Yeah, yeah. It's got the paddle shit. Yeah, right. If I want to go manual. But man, it's just in traffic, not having to do the club. That's true.

It's fucking. Yeah. But I spent my whole year. Yeah. That my whole year, my whole life with the fucking clutch control. Yeah, that's rough. It's fun, though, when you do want to absolutely red line. Yeah.

Like early gears. Yeah. I'm pretty jealous of that. You ever? You're a Lambo guy? not. I mean, no.

I'm, I've turned into a Porsche guy. Like, I didn't, when I had the Viper, I thought any car that, any 9-11 that wasn't like a turbo or GT3, it was kind of like, yeah, whatever. It's a girly car.

Yeah. But now I've, I've realized, like, really it's all in how you drive it. Yeah. And having, it's funny because like having not so much power really like allows you to really drive the shit out of it and not worry about going sideways because with the with the viper it was I was

always scared of it because it's always like a proper GDA car yeah it's like there's stories of you know people I think it's some a big number of like 30% of all new vipers were within two miles of the dealership. Wow. Just people just like. Yeah. So I was always scared of that. But when I got the 9-11, it's like, it's 380 horsepower.

So it's not like massive. But they're so nice. I mean, that is enough. It's enough. And it's enough to get in trouble. And, you know, it's enough to like when you get on the back road to ring it out. and really just rip it, you know. What color is it?

Black. Yeah, baby. How annoying is it? Yeah. It's, fuck me. I get my car clean, like, I don't do it myself. I'm not, I can't, I'm not a car clean guy. I bet you are.

I have to clean it myself. Yeah, I knew it. Anyone who's like, because I'm not like a car guy, I could be becoming a car guy. Yeah. But like, I live in an apartment. Right. I'm not fucking dragging down. I don't have a hose.

or anything or a jet washer. If I did, then maybe I would. But I get my car clean, like, and I live in fucking Scotland where the weather is the worst on planet Earth. It's like twice a week at the moment. Yeah. Just because, like a bird. There's a bird that has a vendetta with my car,

like at the apartment block. And it's just like, I'll walk out there one day. My car is fucking annihilated, Oppenheimered, with bird shit. And then I'm like, no I'm like did they get anyone else no one else yeah tactical strike absolutely they like black cars black cars looks so fucking cool

unless they're dirty unless they're dirty yeah I had one bird shit was so acidic and obviously I'm quite good if the bird shits on it I'm immediate I to at least get it off yeah took it took it immediately well I woke up a fucking whatever took it immediately and it had fucking still it'd eaten in and I had to get machine polish yeah I had to get machine polish yeah I

Yeah, I have to get mine corrected, but you got to get the Yeah, this is what I'm gonna get the ceramic yeah the ceramic is the PPF yeah the PPM it's expensive though but it just depends on what you want to how long is it last the ceramic I think is like five years for the good stuff I mean it's expensive yeah but they look so good when they're done like yeah I thought about it because I got lucky not even lucky I I googled around when I got my car because I got the S3 was standard. I was looking around for ages. It was standard and it had like it like normal chrome wheels and normal chrome everything.

Yeah. But it was the one that I wanted which had it was automatic and it had Apple car play and all that fucking shit because I wasn't going to do. A lot of people like the older body but it didn't have Apple car playing. Right. I'm not going to have fucking car play. Yeah. So then I was like I was just Googling a place. like to do like some adjustments and it's right next to my drumstune

and I just took it around and they were like oh sick I used to have one of these this is what we can do we can do this new front lip which I smashed the fuck off the other day I need I just forgot about it until right now it was like two days before I came here I was picking up a photographer who love him to death Callum love you buy a fucking car you're a photographer but like I was picking him up from it's not his fault was my from the train station and it wasn't a train station i was used to and because of the front lip is it's low because of it snapped a bit off oh really yeah snapped off that was a good it was loud i fucking screamed yeah and then i was probably really rude to him for the rest of the

night i didn't mean it but uh i went to this place and they were like yeah we can do frontlet we can do this and they just completely blacked out and all this shit nice they know a place that does the remap but already now on I'm like, what else can I do? It's a slippery slope. The PPF was on the list, but then no else was on the list. Just rewrap it all, something else for a little mix-up. Yeah.

Nardo gray. There you go. Yeah. But then maybe, is this how it starts? Maybe I'm becoming a car guy. Yeah, it does. It just, yeah, you kind of have to pick your poison on which lane you go down. it's it's it's expensive and it's Misha from uh yeah he's he's supposed to have been on

this podcast like three times we get in fact we were gonna do one yesterday but he makes enough money that he can have fun see this i this is why i want to talk to him because i'm like how are you buying these fucking lambos bro because he owns businesses i don't yeah i don't know anything i he's b's in ggd Yeah, he's fucking, okay, he's got loads of money. But yeah. So Lambo is like more of a meme by this point. Yeah, I'm not a Lambo guy.

Like, I can appreciate him and I love the sound of them. I just, that's too much like, look at me. Like, I'm, I like driving cars. I like, you know, I like actually going on a twisty. Also, they're 500. That too. Yeah, fucking. There's a guy actually in Nashville.

I don't know if I have enough free time to do it. Last time I was in Nashville with Tom, I was at Lifetime Fitness. Okay. Love Lifetime Fitness. That's my fucking shit. I wish they were in the UK. If anyone doesn't know, Lifetime Fitness is like rich people gym.

Yeah, everything. Like cryo chambers, cold tanks, all this shit. Fucking unreal. I had a guest pass. I'm not rich. Subscribe to the Patreon. But there was a guy in there, and he came up to me and just randomly and went, are you Justin Bieber's tattoo artist?

And I was like, because you know, that's the type of people that are in lifetime. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, oh, you're English. You look exactly like him. Pulled the guy up and I was like, holy shit, I really fucking do. We got talking. His name's Arloos, guy, lovely guy. We got talking and then we like exchanged Instagrams or whatever.

Yeah. And then he has his own car account. Okay. And I found this out later. and he's got an R8 just got a brand new LAMbo and it's in like combat green but Matt nice like I'm not a LAMbo guy right yeah I'm I would fucking have one but I could never possibly be a Lampo guy but like I'll show you this guy it's like combat green with like gold wheels and it's fucking nuts yes and he was like oh next time you're in Nashville like let me know we go

drive the Lumber I'm like hit him up him up imagine that we do this and then I die in a Lambo crash it comes out and I'm dead I've got things for the end of the end of the podcast

but like I hate them all so I'm going to give I'm going to give you the opportunity good sell yeah but you know what it is it's like I have to know now yeah I'll tell you all of it but the issue is because

half of these are with friends half of these with like friends of friends and that's our full hole so you know a third of these are with friends a third of friends and a third is with people who i don't who are on their press cycle normally if i'm at home yeah yeah and the people i don't know even slightly like we've hung out we're good so i know this is not going to be an issue no one no one at this point really really will care about the end of the podcast they've had their fun i've had fun have fun have fun yeah of course so i'm like with the press ones, I'm like, I need some

structure to the end of the podcast. So I started doing this thing where I'd be like, trying to get them to curate their dream festival and I like, we would go through obviously who's headlining and all that shit would just be like their favorite band of all time. And we'd go through catering, we would go through it

because so you get like a little bit of info on their diet. We would go through, you know, like a smaller stage like, and they'd tell me a band that they're getting into these days. and then where would it be? And then they'd have a story about when we played this or even like, you know what I fucking hate about festivals.

And sometimes people just get it and we have a great chat. They don't prepare in advance, but like I'll talk them for it and we have a great chat. But sometimes people are just like, oh, we played this one festival. I'm like, this fucking sucks.

So then now I'm off that idea. But the one before it, I used to just do, your top five artists of all time. Okay. People hate to be told. I saw the fucking, because the fear of not knowing in advance,

which I should have told you in advance. But that one's good because then we can go off on tangents with those, like we already fucking have with primers and with metallic. Everything. Or, no, that's it. That's the two options for the end of the podcast.

Or a top five of something that we talked about during the podcast, but. Yeah, I mean. I'm going to ask you top five cars. I know. No, that. no it's not going to work that's not going to work which would you like to do

i mean top five artists is really tough in a good way tough though yeah i mean you know that you can get down on your influences or you can get you know you've already said some of your metal but it's metallic your favorite band of all time have you got a favorite band or artist

of all time they're up there you know it's like it they would have to be number one. Faith no more is up there. Interesting.

Wu Tang. Man, you're not up against it, don't we're going to winding you up. Because I'm going to come back to some of these. So just fucking reel them out. Give me two more. Refused?

Fuck, yeah. Has to be. And I, I turned down a refused. episode. Really? Yeah. Okay.

Because what's his name? Dennis? Yeah. The press agent, I'm not going to say who they were. I can't remember who they were. Okay. It was for whatever their last record was. Press 8 or an EP, I think.

Yeah. Got me it really, really late. But I organized the thing we'd organize when to do it. I was super stoked on doing it. Fucking love refused. You know, this is not long after the comeback. Big, big chat. I mean, the comeback's actually quite a while ago now, but do you know what I mean?

Yeah. So I saw that. We saw that in San Francisco. Yeah, fuck it. It's awesome. So good. Incredible. One of the very few comebacks where I'm like, okay, come back.

And then they did it. I was like, okay. Yeah. This is it. Yeah. But like, didn't give me the EP until the day before, the press agent, to give me the EP until the day before. And I didn't have enough fucking time.

We'd organize it like a month in advance. Right. And I was like, I can't possibly listen to this and get it done by then. So I, because I had Dennis's number, I text him and was just like, hey, I've got this really, really late. And would you mind if we did an episode going through the shape of punk to come? Because it like changed my life essentially. I was, you know, I was into fucking punk and hardcore. And then you guys mixed it up, put that jazz in there and shit.

And he like freaked out. really yeah he was like no i don't want to do this blah blah and i feel like because everyone asked him about the shaperpunk to come yeah of course that's the problem with doing a ground breaking thing yeah you're fucked uh and he was really annoyed at the press agent as well i think really i think they'd had some beef or something before i could tell it's time i get it i see both sides of it but it's like when you do something that influential, that groundbreaking, that

fresh, that good. Yeah, it's the Mona Lisa. Absolutely. No one's being like, I remember that helicopter drawing you did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, no, it's... Mona Lisa, talk to me.

Yep. Yeah, and I even saying that out loud, I was like, it fucking annoys me when someone asked me about one of my old bands, like an old band. I don't care about it anymore and it was a bad time in my life. And then someone's like, when you're going to do a cover of,

when you're going to put up a play through of this song? And I'm like, fuck you. So yeah, I fully see the reasons that way. It's annoying because I really did want to talk to him. Yeah. But that's the thing is that you,

you're a musician probably in part because of that record. 100%. Right? And it's not, you're not just another journalist. who's just trying to get a, I got him to do this kind of thing. Yeah, that's another, an actual problem with, like,

I don't consider this press, I consider this just fucking hanging out and talking. Yeah, of course. Sometimes, but it falls under press, which is annoying. Yeah. But then there's like a whole thing where people now hate me, not me in particular,

but just like the concept of press because there is a lot of dog shit out there. There is. So it's getting really hard to get someone to come and talk because they just, like, they, like he probably assumed I was just going to be looking for clickbait. That's the other thing. You know what? You just need to tell them to call me.

Who, who you got on the Rolodex that I can fucking. I'll let them know. It's not bullshit. It's, it's a real hang. We're going to chat about fucking. Whatever you want. Hey, you know in the new album? Not going to talk about it.

But that, like. weirdly and this is my USB unique selling point there you go I tend to not talk about music right like about the artist's music

yeah particularly they're the one that they're like you're not on a press cycle really realistically we're at the end of the cycle you must be doing a new album working on some stuff anything you can say But what I'll say is if you go through the discography, they tend to come out almost every two years, like clockwork, maybe three.

So put the fucking two and two together. I can assume that's what's happening there. But I like, I don't, unless they have a story, a real story to tell that they haven't told 400 times about it. People fucking, people buy into the human being. They already like the music or they do the opposite, which is what I did on a bunch of bands. like the every time i die DVD you ever see that DVD no called shit happens it was when they were on their like second album i think i'd never even listened to the band i saw that DVD and i was like this is my favorite band sure it was just like that people buy into the person right and then they

check out the music and when the person comes off well and you know they're like i like this guy yeah yeah there's so much more open-minded when they hear the music and it tends to just create bigger the amount of comments I always get I mean everyone's fucking heard of paparote you're doing me the favour here I'm not doing you a favour but the amount of times I have a band on this like smaller and then people would be like man I love this guy then I checked out the band it's fucking awesome and I was like yes I am I'm doing press yes but don't call me press no you need to give me one more of this top five

though because we went off on the tangent on refused deaf tones fuck yeah there are there are big brothers kind of have you have you toured with every

never never done a tour with death tones they won't take us out really yeah I mean now I guess it would be

mismatched we're the I mean I don't want to say that we're the like the younger uncool brother but

you know they're Chino likes what he likes he's like you know I can't believe he never taught he must have done festivals

yeah we've done shows but but you're friends and stuff yeah I mean we see him that we're yeah I wouldn't say we're super tight but you know yeah you say what up yeah faith no more you ever told faith no more never

that one would have worked I feel like you'd headline though uh I don't know I don't know we met we've met uh well on that corn tour Mike Borden was drumming for corn.

Oh. Was incredible for us. Yeah. We're big fans. Also incredible for the live show. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of people that didn't want to embrace technology.

I know that whole story. Fuck me. And then we met Billy Gould. He was doing, you know, his one of his bands. Yeah. And super, he was super awesome guy, but never met. Mike Patton and I don't know if I want to. Why?

Because you think it will ruin it? Maybe. I just don't want to catch him on an off day because I've heard he's on off. All the best ones are. Yeah. I had that recently. I'm not going to say who it was. I met literally one of my idols and I went, oh, I don't think that guy likes me.

Yeah. And it was just like, I'm pretty sure I wasn't punishing or anything, but I just came away from it like, I wish that hadn't happened. Yeah. Keep up it. When we met Metallica, just a couple of months previous to that, Lars had been talking some shit about us. And yeah, it was guitar world. I think it was.

He said we were like a cheap rip off of Iron Maiden, which was a lot. Yeah, well, last resort, right? Which to me it was like super painful, but at the same time, I was like, whatever, the fuck you go, you know, whatever. But it's always a stretch. It is, but, you know, guitar magazine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever.

So we did this thing called Icon on MTV. I remember it, the Metallica one. We did the Aerosmith one. Oh. And they were, Metallica were there. and it was the craziest thing I met James

couldn't say a word you know Lars came up to me and he was like hey man I'm really sorry about our asshole guitar player I was like

that's cool yeah don't worry about it I was like because I had heard mixed things about Lars too oh wait until it wasn't Lars that said it it was no

it was Lars that no Kirk said it in the magazine but Lars apologized for him oh okay at the icon thing and I was like that's awesome that is awesome I've heard that he's the fucking man yeah so super super cool fucking just architect just did that run with him and they're just

like this guy is the fucking best and I was like I fucking knew he was the best I'm the Lars apologists I like fucking I love his drumming I love everything about him and I was like I can just tell like I was a fucking legend yeah yeah but for him on the downbeat number one bucket list that's one I can't help you with I mean I have people that can help me with it and it's just like

what I need to happen with it is for him to watch an episode of this because he likes the guest right and then him because you know what we're all like I want to do that uh-huh and then guess what I'll go yes Lars will you can do that yes I would love it

anyway let's end it you can drive you can drive your truck home I'm going to Chipotle probably. It was a pleasure. Yes. Thank you for having me. It was awesome.

Thank you very much. If you don't know paparoch, you're an idiot. If you do know Paparoach, but maybe you only know them from like, the best rock playlist of 2000s. Yes. Fucking check out the new stuff. Check out Ego Trip.

Just get on it. Yep. It's a band that consistently evolves and are full of unbelievably, hospitable, lovely people. Thank you. Thank you.

And I'll see you again. Yes, sir.