The Downbeat - Jesse Barnett - Stick to Your Guns / Tradewind

Episode Date: May 20, 2021

My guest this week is Jesse Barnett. Jesse is a man of many talents and bands, including my personal fave hardcore band Stick To Your Guns, but I caught up with him ahead of his OTHER band Tradewind's new record release to discuss that for at least 10 minutes and then mostly talk about guns, communism and cereal.

Oh, what is up. I'm feeling like pretty fucking high energy right now. Three coffees. No sleep. Just fucking what we like to call a manic episode. No, I can't say that on the internet, can I? Am I going to delete this? Stop.

No, fuck it. I'll leave it. I'll leave this in. Yeah, this is mad, isn't it? When I'm dead and gone, you will listen back to this and go, He was absolutely off his rocker. What's going on? I'm just a busy man.

Busy making coffee, busy drinking coffee. Biggie, drinky coffee, drinky biggie coffees. This podcast is brought to you by, I don't have anything. No adverts, no nothing. I'm doing so many podcasts intros at the moment. I don't actually have anything to talk about because I just fucking talked about it the last time. Oh my God.

You mean to tell me that there's a way I could, got this episode early, Craig. That's right. There's an episode of, I mean, there's a place that you can get these episodes really, really, really quickly and easily. And before everyone else, it's patreon.com forward slash the downbeat. And it's only one fucking pound. You've got one pound in your bank? If you haven't, then you probably shouldn't have the internet. That's the first thing you should stop. So that's why I don't feel bad asking for a pound, because if you can afford the internet, you can afford a pound. And you get episodes early, and that's all you fucking get. get, you might get the t-shirts early, but you don't get them for free.

And they're available at www. www. the downbeat.a.t, so it spells downbeat. My guest this week, I haven't even taken a breath yet. That's my Wim Hofshit. Okay, we're good. My guest this week is, without sounding, even more mental than I have just sounded, is one of my favorite modern lyricists of all time, which sounds. dramatic but it really is the man is a poet he's an empath is that the right word for someone who's

got you know a lot of empathy all the work he does in his community lovely work we talk about that but he would rather be on the couch eating cereal which he divulges that secret bit of information but his band Tradewind who he's in

with Tom Williams from Strait from the Path aka my band if you don't know that then what are you doing here Oh, I like stick to your guns. I don't care about the rest. Fuck you. You're here for everyone. We're a big boys club, but like a good one,

not with any, like, horrible shit like the other boys' clubs. Sort of like a... I don't even know. I was going to make a billionaire boys club joke, but without any of us being rich. Anyway, then your album, The Day We Got What We Deserved, is out on May 21st, which I believe is tomorrow,

if you're listening to this on the release day. It's really fucking good. got like a radio head DJ Shadow vibe. It's very not to stick your guns, not straight from the path. All three of their albums, there's three albums in an EP. It has like a slightly different vibe. This one's got more of like a synthy vibe in there. There's some weird modular synth shit going on.

Really fucking good. You should check it out. We had a lovely chat about everything. Politics. Fun. We laughed a lot. Fun. It was just fun to be had.

I was really good. It's Jesse Barnett on the Downbeat podcast. That's why I need to sync it up. Why are you laughing? First of all, it's been a million years since I've seen you. Let me say, I'm going to say a few things. You look fantastic. Thank you.

Your podcast is hilarious. I can't believe I'm finally on it. Thank you for having me. I'm pretty sure people have been begging you to have me on it. And I was just like, I have. I guess I'll just wait for my friend Craig to ask me. No, remember we were supposed to do it in my old life? My old shitty life.

You were at my house. You were at my house and then we just got up and made coffee instead. That sounds, that sounds correct. That sounds about right. Sounds like us. That was it. But also, I want to give a quick shout out to Guava Sao Paulo Lacroix. It's a new flavor.

Nice. In no way it's an ad. It really, really sounds like an ad. It's just so good. About three minutes ago. I would have been trying to sell them t-shirts probably. So now they're like fucking, they've got to drink water. What you got, LeCroy?

Yeah. I hooked up the soda stream. Just a soda line. No ice. Ice is the podcast's nemesis. Really, why is that out too much crunching? Oh, the jangle. Yeah.

The jangle. Yeah. I'm not fucking eating. I eat ice. That would be a huge... Not during an interview. So, then you have them. Pretty tough.

Where are you? L.A. I'm in my house. It looks nice. I'm always in my house. You're not a nice bed there filled with dogs. Oh, yeah. We're fostering a little puppy right now.

And we just fostered a girl puppy. So, like, we... This brother and sister kind of came to this rescue that I work with. And we did the sister. first and the sister was so easy and now we got the boy and he's a fucking hellraiser so it's been it's been a nightmare well are they pit bulls yeah little pitties lovely are pities allowed over there i don't think they are american pit bulls no i think they're banned yeah i think so i've seen them i've definitely seen them you can like you can like you can do weird

shit with the paperwork where you say they're actually like a different kind of terrier or whatever but like it's i just don't think we can be trusted It's not it's not it's not it's not the dog's fault it's the fucking it's the people's fault British people or just people I mean British people I in this in this instance I mean British people but people in general yeah people in general right what hoodie you got on what do you mean say it again what hoodie have you got on this is the this is the SRA I work with the it's an organization I'm with the socialist rifle association Oh, very different.

Whoa, wait, wait, though. You guys aren't supposed to like guns. That's the main thing. That's what we're told. You libs aren't supposed to like guns. Hey, guess what? You probably didn't even notice this. I saw you were working with them and I donated, but I didn't buy a hoodie.

I just did a little donation because I don't want to take your hoodie. I'm filled with hoodies. Look at me. I'm the fucking hoodie guy Craig I appreciate that buddy you and Sam Sam actually bought a hoodie and he needed

he needed something tangible I just need here's what I paid for I paid for this conversation you're just you're down for the cause you don't need anything in return there's no incentive

I need well now I've just broadcast it so really what I've done is worse because I did it specifically to bring this up in a public in a public place But if it gets there, who cares? Right, exactly. I appreciate that.

Thank you. Oh. So, um, you're pretty militarized now, aren't you? As Tom told you, I, oh, don't, don't mention any crazy shit. Tom's always saying that. I always have to ask permission from Tom, um, things I'm allowed to say. And I'm pretty sure you've had to do the same thing. Oh, all the time.

Right. I get like, hey, bro, that tweet, you sure? Are you sure about this one? No, for sure. He's always right. It's coming from a good place, but sometimes, you know, if Twitter is not for saying outrageously emotional things that you maybe don't fully mean, then what's the point of it?

I mean, yeah, absolutely. It's for talking shit. It's the permanent nature of it, though. It's like, I, I, the one that always used to got me and still gets me and it's just like a knife from heaven is that Tom Sells last tweet, his last reply to someone is him replying to me where I'm pretty sure I've added a delivery company who I've fucking, a delivery hasn't turned up. And my reply is something insane. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to kill your whole fucking. family. It's like something fucking crazy. And Tom Searle, like a week before he died, just like tweeted me back, like, Craig, steady on. That was it. But people, people go now

to the fucking shrine of Tom Sele on the internet. And they see the last thing. Yeah. There's like a poignant thing as well. But then the main last reply is me, me threatening a delivery, a small delivery company. You know what, Craig? I wouldn't have you any other way. And, you know, actually, I'll give a Tom, I have a Tom Cyril story that I don't even know if I'm allowed to be saying, but like, you know, can't you do it? Can you edit this?

So, no. I have, I have no emails in my, in whole inbox, which is filled with shit constantly. The only email I have favored it is an email from Tom that he sent me in, oh my god so long ago and where he's he says hey it was after we had played some shows together did a tour together and he says hey jesse it's tom uh hope you're doing well i wrote this breakdown but i realized it's a little too stig um so if you guys want it you can have it and i was just like oh awesome and so we listened to it were like this thing is awesome and we never used it and uh we finally used it on the new record and so we have a we have a little bit of tom on the new record

and uh that's amazing I know. And I still, every once in a while, go back to the email just to look at it. And it's just, you know, it's such a trip. It's such a fucking trip. But, you know, so Tom continues, Tom is continuing to write for bands and making them better. Like, fucking six years later. That's so fucking sick. Are you going to put it in the credits? Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to do the whole ASCAP thing. He's going to be a writer. I mean, I don't know where, you know, I don't know. I've probably got to talk with Dan about that. But, you know, we'll figure out. That's amazing, though. The logistical shit up. Yeah, and it's, the breakdown is hard as all fuck, so it's, it's awesome. I wonder how much, how much shit is still, like, how, like, Dan must still have riffs. Oh my God.

Like, it must be like years worth. Just pop a sprinkle of time in there. Absolutely. And especially with the band like architects who, who they, they try so fucking hard. Sometimes I look at six-year guns, I'm like, damn, we do not try as hard as architects does. It's like they care so much about their band. So, I mean, you know, you get a record, you get an architect's record that has 10, 11, 12 songs. Those are the ones that made it.

So there's got to be hundreds of songs, you know. The last one, I think they had 24 songs. Imagine going into the studio. Here you go, 24. Let's just fucking, let's just polish these up. Stray goes in with six and then goes hands out to Will. Like, so will. honestly same i mean if it wasn't for chris chris is constantly writing riffs and and josh as well but

we're the same way we're like oh the the record's going to be 12 songs okay well here are the 12 songs here they are we half that and then we go so will like what you got there we got in that big brain now it's usually it'll be tom and will sat there and then will all say ah do something like this and then it does work but we need him there. The fucking engine man. We need him there. No, of course. Before I forget, before I forget, isn't it

fun? I'll just say my one poignant thing and everyone go, oh, isn't he actually quite clever? Isn't it crazy how art is one of the only things that you can like, you can truly transcend death. You're like a mortal. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the, and the, and, um,

what do you call it when you're obsessed with yourself? Is that narcissism? Narcissism, ego, egotistical. Yeah, so that part of me thinks that's great. I'm going to continue living on and, you know, people who hate me and they're going to train their children to hate me. I'm going to outlive all of them. I'll take it.

I'll take it all. All press is good press, my friend. Absolutely. Like, I was talking about this earlier today when I was like, I was talking to my girlfriend about it. And then I was like, I can't remember what we were talking about. And I was like, no, I can't. I have too much ego.

that's why and I'll hold my hands up to say I'm fucking I'm an egocistical maniac that's why I'm doing fucking music and a podcast no one has a podcast hey guys here's me talking for two hours I got I hate myself but here's two hours you know just the just the cool shit but and that's why I can't do like mushrooms or any like psychedelic like the ones where everyone's like hey man that'll really break your ego down that is a horrible time

for me I say the same thing And honestly, it's like, you know, I'm a straight-edge person. But psychedelics really, they interest me. I find them very interesting. But at the same time, I have the exact same thing. I'm too afraid of myself. I'm too afraid to actually face, like, some truth that, like, that would be so dark if I did that. So, yeah.

Oh, it was challenging, but I learned from it. But if you didn't do it, it wouldn't be challenging because that will be the route that I'm doing. It's like homework. You know, why do it when you can do it? when you can just not do it. That was my argument. I'm still here. Like,

not doing your homework is sold to you, like the end of the fucking world. But here we are. And that first time you hand in that paper or don't hand in that paper and your teacher's like, what the fuck? You get an F.

And then you realize you continue to keep living. That was a very empowering moment for me. Wait, that's it. The letter changes. the letter on the paper changes go on and then what oh you can't get into a good college i'm not doing that you know what i mean they had nothing they had nothing they had nothing on me so you know what it was insane with me is i didn't do it ever i don't think i ever did homework and all i did is the day before all of the exams i got i paid for a tutor in that subject

And I fucking rammed it all in my brain the night before. And I got pretty good, great. There you go. And then it was actually the, the, like, arty shit where you needed, like, coursework, like, backed up, like, I did art. Right. And it was like, oh, right about this guy. No.

I was supposed to be painting. So I obviously didn't do that shit. And I got fucking E's and Fs. Right. And the shit that was just, like, fucking two out two, motherfucker. Right. Like, that stayed in for. 24 hours. I banged it all out on the paper. It got pretty good. But it was anything where it was

like, you were, you were supposed to previously have written all this other shit? No. Look, I say, I kind of say this as a joke, but I'm also kind of being serious. The things that stuck were the important things. So whatever I took from grade school and all that shit, the things that I actually sunk into my brain, that's important. All the other shit I didn't remember, I wasn't supposed to. That's how I look at it. I feel like, how do they fix that? because I'm like what the fuck is that noise? A dog or a child?

I'm so sorry it's a dog I don't care. Okay cool I just don't want to be hopefully he'll stop soon but it sounds why is it

why is it so annoyed? I don't know one sec, hold on one sec, hold on. You might have to edit it no, I'm not editing anything I'm gonna

I'm gonna talk through what's happening right he's running trotting I don't know is he Why are your headphones still connected? Because they're on my little dongle.

Come on. Then where is the recording stuff going into? Oh, it's right here. It's in my laptop. So I called back on my phone because I found a dongle instead of doing it on the laptop. Oh my God.

I thought you just like carried a laptop with you. I'm really span out. That was like a kaleidoscope because I swear you walked in one direction and you got to your destination. It was the same room. Like a, fucking spooky, like some sort of spooky,

haunted house. Anyway, what we're talking about? No, but... School. I reckon, yeah, I reckon when... We'll talk about a fucking album later. I don't care. Yeah. Same.

I do care. I reckon if I'd have went to... I don't know. All of that shit's too early. Like, if you could tell me now, you could learn about anything you want, I would do it, and I would fucking do the practice and whatever they call it, reading.

Right. Well, look, here's the thing is I read now. I found reading later in my life. You're so reading. And reading is interesting when you're reading about things you want to learn. And obviously, like, when you're young, you're too stupid to be like, oh, what do I like? I like my friends, TV, and playing baseball or whatever it is. You know what I mean?

It's like, okay, well, everyone's got to do shit that they don't want to do sometimes. but man the things that I was learning in school I felt like most of it not all of it I really truly genuinely didn't care about that and so you know I think the the general rule is okay we have to force them to care but my my thing is like I was friends with kids who loved science and I was friends with kids who loved math like they looked at a math equation it was like it was like a you know a fucking 12 year old boy found his dad's porno magazine you know what I mean like couldn't... Fav!

Like, they couldn't believe it. And my argument even then was like, yeah, let that kid do the math. So what do they do now, these kids? Give me a case study. What do they do now? They try to learn on the computer. And from what I've heard from people like Chris who have children, it's not great. So...

But there's like... No, I mean, give me a case study of like one of the people you were friends with that was good at man. Oh, what do they? I have no idea. Jirking. off over fucking algebra. Fucking dead in a ditch somewhere. Who knows, really.

Oh, Jesus. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. I don't... But now, kids still fucking hate school now, and now there's like a million lessons. Like, I never had, like, you can take philosophy at normal high school now.

Right. That would have probably interested me instead of being like... Totally. Here you go, read fucking of mice and men. Right, exactly. and no. What's crazy is there's so much information now on fucking TikTok and Instagram and Twitter that I feel like I look at Gen Z. I'm like, these motherfuckers are your number one.

And I don't even have one. But like they're smarter than me, these fucking kids. No, all right. The TikTok shit is weird as fuck because there's like, people know the wild realizations go viral. So people are like making shit up. did you honestly it's kind of funny did you know that if you do this then this happens and then people go and fucking try it and they like

oh one tip for getting scrapes out of your car and it's like go and get a fucking battery and rub it on it and then they like fake the video and then someone go everyone goes and tries it and they just fucking end up scratching their car it's kind of funny we're going full circle I mean I don't know I don't know I wish I

I wish I had an answer for what way is the right way, but look, whatever I did led me here talking to you, so straight A's in my book. Or F's, depending on which way you look at it. That question's too big for a fucking podcast between R2 dumb asses. Really quick, let me ask you a question. I don't think that's going to stop, so are we just going to edit out the puppy yelling for help in the background? How can I edit it out? There's no fucking plug-in for it.

You asked me earlier to change my sample rate and I had a meltdown Because I had no idea what that meant I got yeah so I have no idea There's no anti dog fucking filter I mean there's there's probably something I can do I hear people say we'll do it in post so I don't know can you do it in post Well I don't think people are trying to remove dogs in post Yeah okay

I think you're this is why I wanted you close to your mic though Because it should be fine Okay how loud is it for you in that room the dog yeah not loud I just hear it in the background so it'll maybe just add a thing to the background

by this point yeah by this point at Easter egg hunt for the dog did you hear what the dog said at fucking five minutes 52 in if you do that backwards

it's the communist manifest that's what you were doing the whole time exactly exactly so you and George Schmitz now are fully weaponized or? I don't think George is, I don't think George, George is weaponized as far as, he's not weaponized in the sense of actual weaponry, but he's weaponized in the sense of he's the smartest person I've ever met and he uses the things that

he reads to educate himself and the people around him to better help build a society that's not so disgustingly sick. So he's, Yeah, he's like off grid at the moment and all I picture is Unabomber. Like, what the fuck is George up to in Denver Unabomber. I just saw him recently and he's very, he looks very normal. I got to say, I was expecting, you know, like bags under the eyes and like, hey man, you don't know what I know, man. But he's gone the other way. He's incredibly healthy, it looks like.

So that was good to see. That's good. Yeah. it was uh it's always worrying when someone who is so clever and so how do you say like you know just smart but no so well rooted in his beliefs right just suddenly goes quiet right well i think i think i think i don't know if i'm supposed to be saying this but of course i'll say it is i think like the the twitter like you know people like you and i people talk shit to us and we look at that as an opportunity.

Yeah. I actively seek out. Oh, exactly. And I love responding to people like that, just like people want to come in me and be like, fuck you, you motherfucker. And I'll just be like, okay, fuck you asshole, motherfucker. Like, I'll just, I'll go, I'll go all day long with people.

I truly don't care. It doesn't bother me. Some people, it really affects. And I think George is one of those people where he, not, not so much like it ruins his day, but he's so much, he's more so just like, you know what? I believe what I believe. And I don't need to put it. all over the internet so I'm just going to like do the reading and then sometimes tweet but then

like you know he'll put something up and then either it's protected and no one can see it or it's like he'll delete it or whatever but you know there's some people don't want that kind of shit in their life but then there's people like you and I who are just like yeah let's go I'll go all day long shit talking yeah I feel like after good night alt-right when I was like wait I'm no one killed me right exactly exactly let's fucking go everyone come on and that's the biggest thing that to understand is like, you know, people will literally threaten me with violence. And I just go like, your car or mine. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, do you want to do this? I'll pick you up or you come, you swing by my house. You know what I mean? Like, let's be honest. You're not going to do shit. I'm way too lazy to do anything. So, so it's like if you want to, if you want to, you know, unless, you know, unless it's like legitimately like someone does come knocking my door, then fine.

I'll, I'll try my hardest to just knock you out with one punch. And if I can't, then I'll just get winded and you'll probably beat the shit out of me. But, you know, I don't care. Like, like, I'm not, I'm not afraid of, of someone on the internet and, you know, should something happen where internet shit talk turns into real life situation, then, I don't know, we'll cross that bridge and we cross it. So, it just seems, it seems odd that people are so willing to take a stance against a stranger, usually about defending a different stranger.

Right. Like, so if someone's coming into your DMs, like, you got any shit about fucking supporting Palestine? Right. Oh, my God. That's been popping off at the moment. A lot, you know, a lot. Especially, you know, six of your guns is pretty much like, we do very well in Germany. We have a large German following.

And Germany, because of their history, is even German anti-fascists are, for the most part, very, very, very. pro-Israel, you know, because of their, you know, them committing one of the worst crimes in history of humans. And so, you know, that, that I give a critique of Israel. I give a critique of the history. I give a critique, you know, this. And again, people think, you know, people will come to me say, like, oh, this is just trending right now. That's why you give a fuck. It's like, I have the receipts. I have a fucking high school paper that I did on this. You know what I mean? Like, I've been, I've been talking about this since literally. He's on F. Right. He has the paper. but like this is legitimately something i've been talking about since 2005 like this isn't this isn't

like a new thing for me and that's fine but you know it's it you know a lot of germans will come at me and and talk their shit and it's just like you know i i don't care but like there's nothing a lot of people think they can take the stance of like oh i'm never listening to you again good. You know what I mean? Like I genuinely... You shouldn't have been listening in the first place. Exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, it's funny when people think, because, you know, we've all been so brainwashed to think that, like, like, the customer is always right. So it's like, oh, well, I bought your record and I go to your shows and therefore, you know, you shouldn't be saying these things. It's just like...

Yeah, that's a thing. People, to side on that a little bit, like, people don't realize that the downbeat and everything to do with it is just me. Right. So, like, so, like, Like, the, I sometimes get like a returns request or a complaint. Not often, everyone, please continue to buy. But the person will be a fucking, because I think they're speaking to customer service, they would be just so rude. Like you're speaking directly to Jeff Bezos who's fucking, just kick your parcel into a fucking river.

And then, and then to me, they're nice as pie. And then I'll play them off on both things. It's just for fun. Like we said, we go all day. I'm playing butt. And I'll be like, oh, man, that kind of sucks. Like, what a customer support saying? And then they'll say stuff like,

they never even got back to me. And it's, well, here's the news they have, and it's me. And we're still having that conversation. It's just fucking, I don't care, but you nailed it. Like, people are fucking brainwash. I feel like I used to be until maybe the last five years, I woke up and was just. like, wait, there is people at the other end of whatever situation, if I have to complain about

something or whatever. Right. My biggest, my funniest customer service thing that I had one time because I'd do the record label with Tom. But we, you know, Savannah and I are the people who send out all the records. So sometimes she'll get them and sometimes I'll get the customer service emails. And one time I just straight up said to someone who was being, they, they, they, you know, I can, I'm all, people want to be frustrated. That's okay. I get it. Shit's frustrating. but when you get when you when you're when you're when you're outright like rude and shitty is when I go like okay from now it's like gloves off and I just straight have said to someone hey I'm keeping your money and I'm not sending you your record like I'm robbing you now like like go ahead report me to the better better business bureau call the cops I'm just straight up not sending you this and I'm keeping your money and then they were like what the fuck and then obviously Savannah's like no we're sending them their fucking record so But, yeah, that's how I do. You need, do you know, I have, I have her check all of my emails.

Can I send this email? Absolutely not. What do I need to do? But you need to change everything. I get what your message is, but the whole thing needs to change. Yeah. It's fucked, but, you know, I, I can be an emotional creature, as I'm sure you can as well. And so it's just like, yeah, whatever.

I'm the fucking worst. I'm the worst person that you could put. like streaming as well. Like, if I'm having a bad day and someone on Twitch says, ha ha, like you dropped a stick. I'll ban them.

I'll bet. And I know like, it's almost like, I just like, I black out. Right. And I'm like, I'll look straight at the camera

and be like, you're getting banned. You're being fucking banned right now. And then I forget all about it. And two weeks later, I'll get like an un-ban request. It's like, hey, man,

like I'm really sorry. I'm, I'm really sorry about mentioning that you dropped your stick. And then I, because I'm fucking the guards down and I'm not, I'm not a psychopath at that moment in time. I'm like, no,

I'm really sorry. I am a fucking, I can't do anything about it. I don't know what it is. Well, here's the thing is, is drumming. There's so much technical shit.

I mean, there is, I guess, too, with guitar. Luckily, I'm not a musician. I'm a person who happens to play the guitar sometimes.

So I don't, you know, like Taylor, because I, so I'm a Taylor, Taylor guitar artist. And they asked me one time to like go on there and like, oh, you should come on our Instagram and play a song or whatever. And then I was like, oh, that could be cool. And then I went and looked at the other people who did it. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not doing it. Like, fuck flamenco players who were doing like scales all on up and down the shit.

And I'm like going to be playing power chords on this fucking Taylor guitar. You know what I mean? And so... Yeah, it's nice. I sure, it's a different thing. And that's even what they said, but I eventually turned it down. But I get it a lot with,

if I ever post anything with like, like shooting, any gun shit? Oh, man. Gun people are the fucking... Well, advice. Yo, not advice. You don't, you're not even, you're just crazy shit.

It's like, hey, I'm still learning. What is it? Fart Sniffers. All right? And this is, this is where it comes from. Listeners to the podcast already know about it. I've even got a button for it.

You ready? You ready for this? I can press a button. I'll give you the fart sniff of noise. This is what I play during a stream if someone offers unsolicited advice. I've got to play it down the microphone for you. Ready?

I do it again. I can do it again for you. I do it again. Ready? So it's someone farting and then sniffing it and then going, oh, that smells. so good because what and what they're doing is my my concept behind it is that they are they're just they're just barking up the wrong tree like you i care so little that you could be critiquing my

farms right now and you're the type of person that has an opinion for everything you probably sit around when you don't have anything to do fart and assess the fucking tomberer and fucking tone like like you're having a fucking drip coffee You know, like a fucking, hmm. That's an earthy tone. Anyway, yeah, fart snivers in the gun world. I can imagine it's exactly the same as everything else. There's fart sniffers everywhere.

I mean, even with... Love it. Love it. You're on board already. It's like, you know, people have always given shit. I mean, fuck. Stick to Your Guns wrote a song called, quote unquote, colorblind when we were 15 years old about how like, hey, we shouldn't be racist. And people were like, you fucking race trading fucking bastard. racism's a myth. And I, you know, people are telling me that when I'm 15, 16 years old. So it's like, we literally get shit saying anything. You know what I mean? I could say something

and they could be like, that's wrong. And I'm like, okay. And then I'll say exactly what they're saying. And then they'll be like, no, that's still wrong. And it's just like, no matter what you're do, you're going to, you're going to make people upset. And it's like, you know, people give me the shit where they're like, oh, all you do is talk. You don't actually do anything. And I'll be like, actually, I'm pretty involved in the community. And I'm, I just opened up a community space that helps people who in need and I have a mutual aid project in Venice Beach where I'm feeding people and sheltering people and clothing people. And they're like, oh, we're only doing that for, for, you know, your own selfish. It's just like, fucking Jesus. You're never going to, you know,

they say you're all talking. And then you go like, actually, I talk and I walk. Yeah. Right. And they're like, whoa, it's for your own ego. It's just like, all right. When it's, when it's either, when they either say it's for ego or it's so you can post about it or it's because it's trending, It's a projection of them. The part of their brain goes, I'm not doing anything. And then they fucking project that by going, oh, you're just doing that for that.

In fact, by me not doing anything, I'm actually doing more than them. And here's what I want to say. But here's what I want to say is like, you know me, Tom knows me. Everyone knows me who knows, people who know me know me, me. I don't want to be doing any of it. So let me go ahead and say that. Let me go out and get there. I'm not one of these like, I wasn't born to be a humanitarian and fly all over the world and

fucking help people. That's not, I mean, I, it's a very fulfilling work and you get to meet people who have these amazing stories and you get to learn a lot about humanity and society and things like that. And that, that in itself is fulfilling. But I don't want to be doing it. I want, on weekends to be sitting on my fucking ass, binge watching Netflix, drinking my fucking LeCroys with a fucking dozen donuts in front of me, not doing shit. And so that that's what a lot of people I think have a misconception that I'm this like want to be do-gooder. Trust me, I don't want to be doing any of it. Having said that, the United States and many places, but I'm going to speak from where I live, is such a failed fucking state, especially California, who's, by the way,

under supreme democratic rule and failing us miserably. It's so fucked up that it's just like, okay, well, you know, the fucking room isn't going to get clean if I just sit here and do nothing, so someone's got to do it. And luckily, there's a bunch of people who are out every weekend and every week trying to fucking pick up the slack for this clearly failed state, this failed project known as the United States. And it's great.

But again, I hardly run into anyone who's like, I'm here because I feel, no, no one wants to be there. Everyone just wants to be. Those people are just talking about it on the internet. Right, right, exactly. Exactly. The people that they're accusing you of being do exist. Right.

They do exist. But it isn't you. And it's not me, but it's like I've found, I have found a fulfillment out of it. And I enjoy doing it and I try to do it consistently. You know, like we're going out tomorrow. And it's been a crazy week, and I definitely don't want to go, but I go because, you know, our project, there's people who rely on us, so we go out there and do it. But, you know, I think that admitting that to oneself is in its own way empowering because it's just like, look, no one wants to be doing this shit. Everyone wants to just to be living their life.

Everyone wants to be, you know, and I don't blame anyone who doesn't. Like, people work. You know what I mean? People have their own family problems. People have their own shit that they got going on. that that's fine and that's ultimately what I'm trying to push. Hey, how about none of us do this? And the government doesn't. Exactly. And we all come together and we all do it together so that no one has to go out and do any of this. That's, that's my whole thing. That's my push.

Because, you know, I would rather be doing other things with my time. Why? Why? Obviously, I'm not asked, I'm rhetorically asking this question, but like, why is anyone against that? I think they, a lot of people feel like, well, I had to do, like, like for, let's give an example, like for college. And I don't know what, is that, is university paid for? We pay. I'm in debt.

I'm in a lot of debt from my degree. Right. And so I think the argument is very simply, people just go like, well, I had to do that. And if we eliminate it for these people, that's not fair for what I had to go through. And it's such a short-sided view. And it's, it's quite literally, it's fucking stupid. You know what I mean? Like, who gives a shit?

Like, but let's take that as an extreme, right? Right. A completely out there extreme. Let's say, I get my fucking legs cut off with a bone sore by a stranger. And I, that was horrible. Right. And I don't want that to, I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone. So why would anyone then go around going, well, I have my legs cut off with a bone sore?

fucking so everyone else has to do it so where is the line because obviously it filters down at some point humans stop caring about someone else getting something if they had to do it do you know what i mean absolutely absolutely and and it's it's i think the argument that has been completely demolished by data and research and actual like fact and shit like that is that if you take away those things from people, then they will no longer be incentivized to want to participate in society, which is just not the case. I mean, you can see it throughout history, you can see it throughout current society in places where people get free healthcare, free schooling, free, you know, even some places, free housing and things like this. That's not, that's, that's,

that just isn't correct. Like, I feel like humans by nature, and this is generally speaking, And there are some people who just want to be locked in their room and don't want to participate in society. But I would argue that that's because capitalism is just completely demolished our will to live. Now, we're social creatures, though. You know what I mean? And we want to participate. We want to feel like we're giving back and that we're doing things because that's what gives us a sense of fulfillment. So, yeah, I don't buy the nonsense of like, oh, if you, you know, raise the minimum wage or if you give people schooling or give people free health care that they're not going to want to like work.

for it. It's just like, no, they'll just work and want other things. You know what I mean? Yeah. But if you make the environment comfortable, people will be more comfortable and there'll be more productive. There will be a better output. That's 100% correct. Like, if we're, if we're talking in terms of like output only, like, okay, well, you know, we, we need a better output. We need a society that's constantly moving forward and blah blah, blah, whether I agree with that or not is, is makes no difference to this argument. But it's just like, you're, you're 100% correct. I'm talking about the capitalist argument of, well, no one's going to fucking make the bread. Right. And right now, I mean, I'll give it a perfect example. Like almost every single person on

the street in Venice that my, my, my organization services, almost all of them have jobs. They go and they work. It's just they. They can. can't make enough money to get a house or get ahead or do anything else because not only is putting a roof over your head expensive but so is just being alive and granted los angeles is an expensive city so we we basically uh we set up tables we have like the stick your guns tour ban which is it hasn't been being used it's filled with uh medical medical medical sorry sorry but it's filled with medical supplies and then we go and pick up food and we go pick up we have books and and we have all these basically things that that that people need in order to live a dignified life and we go and we basically

have this thing called the red bread free store and you can just come by and if you need clothes then you can grab clothes if you need food you can grab food you can grab whatever you need and and and whenever we do one it's every other sunday we ask okay well what is it that you need now like what else what else do you need um there was a really dark week where we had to we had to eat to eat equip everyone with fire extinguishers because like a lot of the people and and were we're burning down the encampments um because obviously they're they're quote unquote bad for venice brunch business so um wow yeah so you you know there's thing there you have those moments where it's like fuck this this is this shit is fucking dark but luckily you know uh you know these people

are wonderful and they're fucking smart and they're hard working and like Like, it's, it's, it's pretty eye-opening because, you know, generally people think that, you know, an unhoused person is someone who's mentally ill and a lot of the time they are or, or, uh, someone who's a drug addict and sometimes they are. But that doesn't, that, that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't mean that that that person doesn't have a right to get help or doesn't have a right to, to, to, to, uh, a humane and indignified life and deserving of respect. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, It's, it's weird how America, this is an observation that I've had, it's weird how America is really, really understanding of alcoholics, like someone's an alcoholic. Definitely.

Don't, don't, don't do this, don't do that. Right. Like, don't, don't mention it, you know, you know, like, they're really, really nice about it. Right. Someone's addicted to drugs. Oh, no, that person needs to die. No, totally. or or I'll even take it one step further.

If you're poor and addicted to drugs, then they need to die. If you're rich and addicted to drugs, you need help and it's a tragedy and everyone needs to come together and sing kumbaya and they all, you know what I mean? All that fucking shit. And, you know, I think it's the same thing. And that's what a lot of people don't understand is like our organization, and this is the main difference in why we call ourselves a mutual aid group as opposed to a charity group is although there are people out there who want to help. but they don't understand the dynamics of society. And you only learn those dynamics from A, participating in it, but also these are things that you can read about. These are things that you can learn about.

And my readings and the things that I study have helped me better service the community. And so something that I learned about when helping, especially in a mutual aid setting, is outreach. And what outreach is, I'm sure a lot of people know, so I apologize if I'm being redundant, But you go and you basically talk to these communities. Because a lot of these times, a lot of the times you go like, oh, here's a bunch of shit I don't want in my house. I'm going to go dump it on these people. And especially in Los Angeles, and this is the only experience I can speak from, people are generally very hostile towards the homeless community. And a reason for that is because they're quote, unquote, very messy.

And everything looks like a mess. But what a lot of people don't realize is a lot of that mess comes from people who are trying to do good, but just dumping all of their shit that they don't want at an encampment. And the encampment goes like, we don't need any of this. And we don't want any of this. And so it just piles up and it just becomes an issue. So outreach is important because you go to the community. You talk directly to them and you say, hey, what do you need?

What can I bring you? And here's what's good about that. A, you as the person who's trying to help doesn't waste their time. You don't go getting a bunch of shit that's not needed and making more trash and a harder time for people. B, it just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, in, in, in, in, in, in socialism, in, in, in, bread is the things that we need in order to survive, and roses are the things that are the beautiful things like, like, shit-talking trolls on the internet and things like this. Rosie, oh, my God, just rosy, okay, exactly, huge bouquet, but, you know, and that's what's

important, so asking someone what they want instead of just being like, oh, oh, beggars can't be chooser, so just take this, because that that mentality of beggars can't be choosers only upholds the capitalist classist mindset of I'm up here, you're down here, so just take my bullshit. So that's important outreach. And also just making sure they want you there because a lot of these homeless encampments really are very organized. They're very clean. They have things that they already need. And they don't fucking want your gentrifying ass anywhere near them because all you're going to do is bring more attention to them and compromise their situation.

Do you ever get that? Do you ever get anyone like... Definitely. We... We'll approach... Yeah, yeah. We will approach... Not anymore because a lot of our...

Our houseless people vouch for us, especially our organization all over L.A. Because a lot... We've provided a lot of these encampments with cell phones. So we're legitimately still in contact with them when we're not even there. Hey, what do you need? Hey, does someone need medical help?

Hey, do you need help getting? Because the unhoused community here were eligible for the stimulus checks. But a lot of them didn't have like the proper ID. or couldn't get a ride to a fucking place to get it. So we helped facilitate things like that. So yeah, it's, it's, but at the beginning, definitely. We show up and we're like, hey, we're here to,

and they're just like, we're not, we're not buying what you're selling. We're not, we don't give a fuck. Get the fuck out of here. They think you're going to dump a fucking bunch of blankets they don't need that. Yeah, or try to tell them about God. Hey, I'll feed you it, but you got to listen. You got to have Bible study first. You know what I'm just like, you know what?

I'd rather fucking starve. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No thanks. No thanks. you, uh, did you watch or have you seen that film the platform? No, so it's on my, it's on my, I saved it. Let me just sum it up real, you're gonna fucking love it. Everything you just fucking said. It's, I reckon, I know if you look, it's only got a seven on IMDB, right? But I think it's

because people are fucking morons. Yeah, of course. So it's a, it's a horror-ish, but it's more of like a social allegory, uh, about this guy who wakes up in, in a huge, like, tunnel, like a system of cells that just go, like, in a vertical, like, almost like a tower thing. And one platform goes down the middle. And every month you're randomly assigned a level. And what happens is at level one, there's a banquet full of food. They get a set amount of time to eat, and then it goes down to the next level.

And how the people at the top treat the food. depends on how much food or what condition it's in when people are at the bottom. So, you, it's literally a social allegory for, I love that. What we should do better. I honestly,

I finished it. I was like, this is maybe the best film we've ever seen. So it's a movie. It's not a show. It's a movie. It's a German language. Make sure you turn the fucking dubbing off.

Watch it with subtitles. Okay. It's crazy. But like, the, like, there's so many hidden messages in it. and just like clever little fucking nods to what's going on in the world.

Yeah. But the fact that one day you can just wake up and you're on a different platform, one day you could, one day you can wake up, you can win the lottery, like the fucking, you know, the message, you can win the lottery, you're on number one. You eat all day, but there's like some people are number one, they eat all day, I'll fuck the people behind them and they spit on the food before it gets down to the next level.

Or you could wake up one day and you're on the fucking lowest platform and there's no fucking food for you and what do you have to do you need to fight with your cellmate or fucking kill with your cellmate or whatever right uh it's just incredible yeah you will fucking i message you immediately i was like you'll love you'll love it i'll definitely be watching that today it's it's communism the movie it's a fucking advert and then it ends i'm not going to tell you anything about the ending but it ends the only way it could end and people like i had people messaging me about it like yeah the movie was kind of okay but the ending sucked and then I'm like why did the ending suck they explain why they think it's like I'm like do you not understand

the point of the entire movie right the message there is like integral to the entire film the whole thing and then some people I started explaining like do you not see how this relates to our lives and the class system and whatever right and um a lot of people would just like, oh shit, I never thought of that. They were just expecting it to be like a fucking horror film. No, for sure. And, you know, I think, I think movies like that are important. And honestly, I'm not surprised it's German.

I feel like Germany really learned from their past and their history. At least that's what I think. And I feel like they get it. Even though I'm not, obviously, Germany is not any sort of like communist society. But like, they're not. afraid of like learning what communism is and they're not afraid to like learn where it where it worked and where it didn't because communism like any like any system like even capitalism when it first was introduced these are all social sciences right communism is a social science and like

any science it takes experimentation um and that's ultimately where like a lot of these super staunchly anti-communist people come out of the woodwork being like look where look what happened in fucking China and look what happened in Vietnam and look what happened in the USSR. And there's there, there are a lot of very valid critiques to make about those places. Tons. Having said that, I haven't heard a single anti-communist person make a valid critique about it. They just say, they just say communism killed a a cotrillion, a trillion, bajillion people, some number that they've heard somewhere. They probably heard it from the Black Book of Communism, which has been completely debunked even by the people who wrote it. So, you know, and, and, and, and, yeah,

So that's what I really respect about Germany. And honestly, a lot of European countries, like I said, they're still very staunchly capitalist, but at least they can look at communism through a lens that isn't like red scare tactics. Whereas here in America, it's like, you know, people would wrap. I feel like it's like a naughty word. Exactly. Exactly. And people would literally rather be considered a fascist than a communist.

Because to them, those two things are interchangeable. The hammer and sickle and the swastika to a lot of Americans are the exact same symbol. Is that just because of like, because I don't know because I'm not American, is that just because of the fucking the Cold War shit? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. A lot of people, a lot of people equate Stalin to Hitler and, you know, Stalin did a lot of, you know, fucked up things and there are critiques of Stalin and that are incredibly valid. You know, there's critiques of Mao that are incredibly valid.

Um, you know, there, there's critiques of all these people that are that, me, even as a communist are, are very, very valid. But like I was saying, communism like, like capitalism or any other social science is that exactly. It's a science. And we need to experiment and we need to go, we need to go, okay, well, this works and this fucking doesn't work. You know, and a lot of the time, they used to fucking drill holes in people's brains to make them fucking like, not hear the voices anymore. Guess what? Didn't work. Exactly. Exactly. It's time for the next guy to fucking invent the next thing. No, totally. And a lot of those deaths that people say that, you know, the 100 million is normally the thing that they, that they, you know, you know, you know what, you know what deaths are

counted in that 100 million, the 20 million Red Army soldiers who died fighting the fucking Nazis and trying to, you know, and freeing people from Auschwitz. Like, they, they put those deaths under the quote unquote victims of communism. And it's like, bruh, that is, that's not, those aren't victims of comedy. I mean, yeah, it's a war and it's atrocious, but like the Red Army stepped up when no one else would and was like, you know what, this Hitler guy, yeah, fuck him. Let's go ahead and blow his fucking brains out. And let's fucking, you know, free these people who are being literally enslaved. So, you know, they say all that. But also, whenever you industrialize any nation, whether it be the United States, whether it be fucking Germany,

whether it be Russia, whether it be China, there's going to be deaths because it's, it's like, hey, we exist back in this time where we only know as much as we know. And so we got to try, we got to try these farming tactics. And this is a big one about the fucking great famine that happened in China. It's like, Mao fucked up and was like, oh, okay, our farming practices fucked up. And it created this famine and now a bunch of people died. But it's like, there was also famine in the United States. The amount of millions of people who died when we were trying to industrialize this nation.

it's like, you know, and this is ultimately the issue. I'm not trying to justify death, especially unnecessary death. That's not the point. But people want to get into like a death toll pissing contest between communism and capitalism. It's like if you really want to do that, you're going to lose. You know what I mean? Like capitalism is killed far more people than quote unquote communism has. But let's just erase that argument altogether and look at what capitalism is and let's look at what communism is.

And let's just decide. Do we want a system in which it serves this one class and we all have to work our fucking asses off for them and the benefit of them alone? Or do we want a system in which the workers own and have the rights to the things that they create and that the workplace is democratic and that we can decide what's best for society and not necessarily have everything be incentivized by profit motive? And we can actually look at what's best for the people who are living in a certain place. but, you know, those are, these are all arguments that I have all the time.

And so, uh, yeah, it's, well, now you've indoctrinated half of our listeners. No, definitely not. You're going to get much hatred over this, which, hey, you hate me. Guess what? Out of spite, I love you back. Listen, everyone listens to my podcast rules. Okay.

Okay. They just, they don't get far enough to be annoyed. They listen to one episode and they go, wait, the guy dresses up like a woman sometimes. I'm out. So those people are gone. By this point, everyone's fucking, you just, you just conscripted, my friend. Right, there you go. We got to talk about your fucking music, haven't we?

Oh, yeah, oh yeah. That's what we're here for. Tom, fucking, Tom sat like the villain in, uh, inspector gadget in a chair. Exactly. Get to the fucking record. Get to the record. Right. As well as stick to your guns, you've got another band, lovely band,

a band that I love, called TradeWords. wind. Appreciate that, pal. And it's like, it's sad music, but I love sad music. I mean, it's not sad, but it's, what, explain it. Explain it the whole thing. Hey, hey, do my job. It could definitely.

A worker boy. A worker boy. Do my fucking job. I mean, it could definitely be, it could definitely be sad. I think a lot of it is sad. But that's the best, that's to me, the great thing about trade owners. With stick to your guns, I'm, I'm quite literally. using a completely different part of my brain than I am with Tradewin. And I think that's probably

why you also love doing the downbeat because it's not like, you know what I mean? It's a different thing. You get to use your creative outlet in a different way. And I think that's, I think that's what's been, if there has been any part of Tradewin that has been successful, it's been the fact that me, Tom, Randy, and Andrew can express ourselves from a different part of our brains, as opposed to just kind of doing the normal thing that we do. And with a band like Tradewin, the ceiling is much higher. Like, if we want to have a guy fucking playing a kazoo with his ass, we can, we can,

we can, we can do that. And there's certain things I can't, I can't even bring up to stick to your guns, um, that with trade when anything goes. Um, but yeah,

when we were going into this, I remember telling Tom, like, there's, I'm just not doing another trade record because we're, all four of us when we're together, we can be very passive aggressive fucking assholes. And so it's like,

you know, doing a record together can be like, horrible. Just right. Before this. one or after this one? So after the, after the,

after the last record, I was like, you know what? I think I'm done for a very, very, very long time. And then Mac and Randy started working on songs together.

And they were kind of like, oh, these could be trade win songs. And then they sent them over to Tom and I. And then we were like, fine, we'll do another record. I think Tom was always down.

And it was me who was just like, I don't, I don't want to do this. But once we started doing it, I was like, fuck, this is great. Because why do you?

you want to do it? Can you without throwing anyone under the bus? No, no, it's not throwing anyone under the bus at all. I just, I just had no interest after the last one. The last one was just when doing a side project, like

you know what's great about the downbeat and maybe you can attest to this is like, like you said, it's just you. You don't have to collaborate with anyone except for your listener. I never want to be, I never want to do anything with anyone else ever again. Exactly. Exactly.

So, you know, the fact that if I'm doing a side project, it would be different if Tradewin was like bringing in all this money. You know what I mean? I could, there's certain things you could just be like, oh, that's fine. But like, what's required versus what I quote get in return? And granted, I get, you know, we can, I get the satisfaction of writing a cool song with my friends, you know, and that's great. But like when it stops being fun, then I start really questioning, oh, I don't need to be doing this. Like, with stick to your guns, like, that's my job.

So you have to push through those moments of like, yeah, this really sucks right now, but you just got to have that struggle session and you just got to get through it. With trade win, it's almost like the homework. Like, oh, wait, I could literally just walk away right now and I'll continue living. This is a thing that I realized

when I started like recording bands for a small insane period of my life. Like, I was doing, it and I was hating it and while I was doing it I was not teaching drums which was my job right and I would make more money from it and then one day I just went wait I don't have to do this and I just stopped I stopped immediately and then now it's like and it used to be it's that kind of like I guess it maybe it's a musician thing where when you were coming up you had to take every opportunity you had to do everything so you've it's like muscle memory is like hey man do you

want to play like now I'll get it like hey man do you want to play my technical death metal song and I'm about to reply fuck yeah and then I go wait a minute no yeah yeah I think that I don't want to fucking do that especially a band like straight from the path and stick to your guns like we're very um side by side and the things that we have to do in order to make a career for ourselves so it's like oh go to Europe for eight weeks yeah yeah you know what I mean like sure just because we've become accustomed to absolutely fucking grinding it out. And I'm sure, because you were also in brutality will prevail as well. And I'm sure that wasn't, that probably wasn't a fucking walk in the park either. So it's like we, we've become so accustomed to having to say yes.

But now we're actually in a position where we can actually be like, you know what? No. And it feels. After COVID, do you think, do you think after this, uh, stick to your guns is going to be more, there's going to be more nose? I think there will be more nose, but not because not in a way that's like, there will be... Not enough money as in like, not enough, uh,

I'm not in a position in my life to sleep on the floor of a van while we do three festivals in one day. Exactly. And like also just saying no to like things that we don't need to be doing. Because a lot of the times it's like, oh, we're going to go out to Europe for a festival season and we're going to do like two weeks. And then all of a sudden as it starts getting closer,

it's like, oh, now this festival wants you. And they're offering you this much money. And now this and then it all of a sudden starts getting extended. It's just it's really I think everyone in the band at least I hope we're all on the same page with this where we start valuing our time more so than the amount of money we're going to be bringing in. And because although that money can be better, it's like we're not talking a difference of $25,000. We're talking a difference of bringing home an extra $2,500. You know, and staying in Europe for another week and a half or two weeks when like it's just like. When like Chris has a fucking kid.

Exactly. Exactly. The kid's the good one. I'm fucking, I'm hedging my bets on that kid that Tom's got there. Like, hey, like there's not going to be any more like,

hey guys, we leave in January. We're back in April. Right, man. You are going to miss years of your life that you aren't getting back if we do that. Not only that, I think we can both say now from experience that doing all those three, those three back-to-back US tours in a row that we all too often get suckered into,

it might bring in more money technically, but it's not doing anything better for the business. You know what I mean? Because now I feel like you need to start implementing a scarcity of how much you're playing because then it makes people go like, okay, fuck, this is the one time I can see Stick to your Guns in Chicago and they're not coming back for another fucking eight months, as opposed to, you know.

Especially because everyone's going to be touring. The minute opens up, it's like, hey, you know you missed gigs? You can watch any band in the world this month. Exactly. No, exactly. Just pick your fucking day. Exactly.

And which I, you know, I honestly don't know how it's going to look. Like, I know shows are definitely coming back soon, but it's like, I don't know people who just have enough passive income to be able to go to, you know, 14 shows in a month. Like, you know what I mean? Like, who the fuck has got has that? So it's like, there's going to be massive competition. And so I think just like the scarcity of things is definitely going to help our business. It'll probably definitely help Stray's business as well. just because, you know, that, that's, that's important.

And I love saying things, I like, I like, I love saying things like help our business, because people always try to be, people, people love to throw that in my face. I thought you're a communist, as if making money is anti-communist. Oh, but yet you participate in society. Curious. I love that meme. I think about it all the fucking time. Absolutely amazing.

Fucking piece of shit, pieces of shit. But to circle us back to the, to trade went. Okay, yeah. So we'll get that. But, yeah, the record ended up coming out like well beyond my expectations. And I think that's just because my expectations were in the floor just because, again, I didn't really want to do them. And I have, it's got nothing to do with really anybody but my own selfish need to, like,

want to do what I want to do when I want to do it. But Mack and Randy, man, they, they wrote some fucking tunes. And my job was very. easy because they wrote these awesome songs then all I had to do is be like oh yeah oh fuck yeah over them and then everyone's like Jesse's a genius that that song's bishop yeah yeah okay yeah got it um so I'm guessing the fucking modular synth thing is those two smoking weed in a room oh my god send it fucking send it because there's two tracks with like oh ba-da-boom so here's the thing is mac being Mac you know Mac

Yeah. He just sent a dropbox folder of like 60 beats that he played. And that's it. They were just the drums. And then Randy is the one who put all the music over it. And then that's when, then after that, then they reached Tom and myself. And so they had been working on some shit. Because I'm pretty sure the idea for them was to, and I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure the idea for them was to do their own kind of like DJ Shadowish kind of project. Yeah, I was getting there was death, there's definite DJ Shadow vibe. in some of it. Oh, for sure. And then I think, I don't know who it was, maybe it was Mac or, I would assume it's Mac just because Mac loves, loves working on projects with people. He's like a dog.

He just loves running around to people and just being like, let's do this, let's do this. And so he, he came to Tom and out. No. Do you want to, hey, we should do this. Ah. Should we? But yeah, Mac brought me in,

and I'm grateful he did because the record came out great and yeah there's this there's this kind of thing with trade win where it's just like yeah we're going to do these songs and then we're going to put them out and we'll do some videos and they'll get about 8,000 views in their lifetime and you know like that that's all trade win is it's like i'm not trying to downplay it by any means but it's like because i definitely think that trade one has its own legs and if if randy was to quit producing bands and if tom was to quit straight and i was to quit six year guns and we were going to go all in on trade win i'm sure we could make a career out of it but it's it's it's it's just fun you know what I mean and it's just like or it can be fun um

yeah well from a fucking vanity point of view you know people aren't going to be able to play stick to your guns when you die right they want to play the fucking no no murder but that's what you sound like to me thank you but my fucking my dad's a huge trade win fan and that's what we want That's what we want. We almost, we almost made a shirt that said like, Tradewin, music for parents or something like that. Because Tom, Tom's always like, my mom loves Tradewin. And so does, you know, my mom does as well.

A lot of it is because they go, wait, you can do music like this too. Right. Okay, I'm in. Okay. From my side, it's you can do music like this too. Why are you doing the other thing? Yeah. What?

Why haven't you been doing this one along? I hear songs worse than this on the radio. You could have that million dollars. I also love that. It's that easy. Their understanding of the music industry is, you get a song on the radio, and now you have a million dollars in your bank account.

The Christmas dinner conversation. I heard a song the other day, didn't have as much talent as you. You should be doing that. Why don't you do that? Luckily, my parents have never been like that, but like, like,

girlfriend's parents and stuff back in the day. Like, I, I used to hate it, like, coming back, oh, like,

anything, I, I distanced myself pretty much with most people from school, other than, like, a few, but,

like, coming back to my hometown and bumping into someone from school, and, oh, you still, you're still doing metal, are you?

And in my head, in my head, I'm like, I just bought a flat, my own stuff. but the polite me he goes yeah still just doing that still screaming along

and I'm like what about you and then I yeah you know it's still still flipping houses uh no like no disrespect or whatever but like and in my head I'm like just come on

I'm not this I'm not the type of person to come in and gloat like oh I'm doing this from now but right no definitely poo it reject definitely and that's That's like a, that's a big thing too. My mom, my mom always says like, how's your little, how's your little, uh, you know, she doesn't mean it like that.

I know she's just trying to like, you know, like that's just, she's just being a mom about it, but I'm like, it's not fucking little mom, okay? Look at this. Holding up the fucking, the Germany shows. Look at the shows, mom. Oh, that's neat. That's really neat. I'm like, yeah, it's fucking neat.

We sold 3,000 tickets. And this is, this was just you guys. Like, still skeptical. Still, fucking skeptical. And this was just you guys. I mean, there was other bands, but you guys were the last band. There must have been another big band. Thanks for the fucking self-fucking par there.

Definitely. Anyway, your fucking album, two of them write it. Then they give it to you. You write more on top. That sounds like my dream. I love it when the boys go to see Will. And then they just make a band. And I'm not there.

Like, oh, sorry, guys, I can't make it. And then they just make a bunch of bangers and send them to me. And just put your drums on these. Perfect. No input. shit, you already have lyrics? Amazing. Bye. Definitely. I mean, that, that's, oh no. I've just hung up on him. It was me. It was me. Are you still recording? I am, yes. Okay, good. Do you have to do do another clap thing or no? No, if you're still recording, we're good. Okay, cool. But yeah,

that's at least how this one went. I think, and that's maybe why it wasn't as stressful as the others, because when you put those four people in a room together who all four of us are, have, personalities that are so clashing because three of us are insanely sensitive, me, Mac, and Randy. And then Tom is, doesn't generally doesn't care about, I don't, I won't say he doesn't care about people's feelings. He just doesn't like respond well to like, he doesn't know how to, he doesn't know how to combat an emotional argument. You know what I mean? He means more so needs a logical or rational argument as opposed to an emotional one. And so yeah, when the three of us are in a room writing songs together, that's a whole different, that can be a tough dynamic.

In general, just the writing, I feel like maybe I'm with Tom on this. I feel like maybe me and Tom get on well writing in a room together because we're, yeah, okay, that's the dynamic. So I get on really well when writing with Tom. Definitely. Because we have the same zero emotion. I'm just thinking in my head of like when we're writing lyrics and something. someone suggests something bad.

Me and Tom are like robots. Like, no, that's fucking, not only is that terrible, but I'm laughing. Right. In my head about it.

Which is, I have a way to be. I kind of, but for me, even though I can be emotional, I appreciate that kind of criticism just because like I don't want, where I start getting frustrated

is when people think that if they don't like an idea and they tell me it's bad, they think I'm going to react poorly to it. Whereas it's like, don't waste my time. Is this good or not? If it's not good,

just say so when I'll move on. But if you're like, yeah, good try. But what if you? It's like, I don't want to, let's not do this like weird beat around the bush thing. Just be like, I didn't like that, you know? But, you know, I think that at least with stick to your guns. And not so much with trade doing that. And I'm really appreciative to the guys in trade win because they basically just go like,

do your thing and we're not even going to comment. And that's easy for me. But with stick to your guns that, you know, it gets, it starts getting to the point, especially after LP 6 or 7, whatever's about to come out, where they go like, oh, let's, we want a part that's like nobody, which if you're not familiar with sick your guns, nobody is a song of ours that is successful. So they go like, I want you to sing how you sing like how you sang on nobody.

And it's like I personally hate getting into the momentum of like, oh, this song was successful. So let's try to recreate that. But that song is successful because it was a thing that we hadn't done. or it was just, you know what I mean, or whatever it may be. I think that you can borrow from past things, but like there is no formula, especially in this music, I feel like, that's like, oh, this is going to hit every time. So so long as we do it like this, we'll be fucking, we'll be crushing it.

You know what I'm saying? It's like, I feel like, for example, and you'll probably appreciate this, a band like Metallica, they start going into the studio and I feel like they start asking themselves, what would Metallica do? When you start getting, when you start getting into that mindset, your band is dead as far as I'm concerned. Like you might be able to still, you might be able to still operate as a business. But like if you start getting to the point asking yourself what the band you're in would do, you're kind of fucked. And you need to like, you need to take a look at your situation and like, you know what I mean? I would rather a band just, you know, a band like Metallica put out of a fucking record that sounds like cold play if they were just trying to fucking, you know what I mean?

if that's what was just coming naturally to them instead of being like, oh, okay, what would, what would Metallica do? It's just like, who gives a shit? I feel like they made, they made the mistake of actually doing that with the black album and their, and like, as in their cold play version of whatever, right, black album. And then it actually smash it. And then, and then them going, oh, fuck, we got to do that again. Right. And then they try it three more times. Doesn't work. In that space of time, they've got sober, forgotten how to rock. Right. And now that Then they retry and rock. I think they eventually nailed it.

The last Metallica album, I think is fucking sick. I haven't listened to it, but I will say this. I don't hate... And hence never will. I don't hate Saint Anger the way that majority of the world does. That's crazy. Why not? I don't know.

I don't know. No, but is it because it's funny, because I kind of love it now because it's funny. It's not good. But here's the thing, if I feel like if a riff was presented to me, and this is why I feel like I need to work with producers, because I can miss. You know what I mean? I can have some good ideas, but sometimes I go like, oh, wow, I really like that. And everyone else is like, are you, are you fucking high? Yeah.

But if the riff, da-na-no-no-no-na-na-na-na-na-na-no-no was presented to me, I'd be like, yep, that's sick. Yeah, but then the line frantic, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick-ttock, talk, like a clock. That's like, okay, I could give you the most delicious vegan hot dog and presenting it to you. It tastes just like a fucking versed. Right. It has a lovely, whatever you want on top. What do you know, like, if you want onions, you want a big ketchup bit,

and I give it to you, and that's da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. And then I just dump over the top of it. Just before I give it to you with shit that spells out frantic, tick, tick, tick, tick-tick. Are you still fucking eating it? Definitely not. Or are you telling everyone that I gave you a fucking shit fucking hot-up. See, lyrically, I don't think, I've never been attached to Metallica lyrically.

Like, obviously, like, I think that there's been some amazing lyrics. And I think that there's been, like, some awesome fucking shit. But, like, I'm rocking a Metallica because of the riffs. You know what I mean? Like, to me, they're a riff band. And so that's really why I'm listening to Metallica in the first place. But also, your lifestyle determines your death style is fucking. hilarious.

I mean, here's a little twist here because I'm the world's biggest, but because it's so bad, St. Anger fan. But when you said it there, part of me was like, is it sick? I've got Stockholm syndrome.

I've got St. Anger. Actually, I think that that Metallica has deserved, has worked their way into being able to deserve people um stanchly defending what they do no matter what it is um just because they've put out so many insanely sick records and so many insanely sick songs and they're just such a sick

fucking band that it's just like i i feel comfortable wearing a metallica shirt from any from from any decade or era and walking out in public just because it's metallica you you I'm sure you disagree, but. No, because even the bad era ones, like some of those shirts are sick. Yeah. Some of the load reload shirts with just four of their faces on it. Sick. By now, they got a nice vintage wash on them.

Definitely. Stick to your guns. Stick to your guns. All has really wild Metallica takes, and none of them are the same. So if you talk to George about Metallica, he's going to have some crazy metallic intakes. George fucking can't stand him. Right.

Chris, I've watched fucking some kind of monster and the black album documentary and live shit, binge and purge with Chris at least three times.

And I think we've taught together three times. Oh God. How are we going to talk about your record? Like, I don't know how to do it. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I've been here for a fucking hour and a half.

We haven't done anything. Here's why it's tough because you had just as much involvement with the record as I did. Okay, so let's do what we can. But this is the thing about the podcast as well. I don't do it as press. I turn down all of the press things because I hate other people's music. No, I love your band. I don't like trying to sell someone else's music.

I don't need, again, I don't need to do it. I'm doing this because it's fun. when I get told, do you want to do a downbeat with Jesse? I'm like, fuck, yeah, I'm going to speak to Jesse for two hours. So here's what I'll say about the record is like, I think that people should just check it out just based. It's hard when doing something. Like I feel like downbeat and straight from the path are such a great symmetrical relationship because you get a lot of people who are who love your drumming and straight from the path coming to check your shit out. But then you also get other people who maybe either aren't familiar with straight from the path or maybe don't like.

straight from the path. Still coming to check your shit out because you're just well, of well-knowledged and hilarious person in the drumming world. But with a trade win, it sounds like different people altogether. And so I think that just on that alone, I feel like people, I'm interested to hear what people think. And for the drummers who maybe have gotten this far into the podcast,

you should definitely check the record out because the drumming. They're all gone. They're all gone. I've been trying for so long to. fucking get rid of them. Like, but they're still, they're still here.

I've made a mistake. There's fucking drumsticks in the logo. Right. That was my problem. And everyone's like, oh, your drum, how's your little drum podcast?

Shut the fuck up. 10 episodes in a row with no drummers. Musically, musically, the fucking record rocks. I'm a fan of it. Like, I could have it with no words and be like, this, this is a cool DJ Shadow type of record.

DJ Shadow, radio head, yeah, meets, um, there's a fucking, the synths give it a kind of dark side of the moon vibe in places, a little pink floydie. Definitely. It definitely doesn't sound like it's from this era.

Yeah, totally. And that's, I think we were trying to go for is like old Beck or like that band, blonde redhead or shit like that, you know, like, I think that's what, that's what's cool. I felt like I had an opportunity to, like, flex a muscle that I hadn't really ever flexed before. Because this trade win record isn't really like the old trade win records. There's, you know, you don't even, you don't even, right.

None of them are. Right. I love that. All three are like their own. It could be a different fucking band name. No, totally. Totally. And that's what I like about it too.

I think people are missing like the heaviness, like from our first EP, which I kind of am too. And we talk, I don't give a shit. I don't do that. But, but yeah, I think it's,

I think it's a super like cool, cool record. It's not, it's maybe not as abstract as like I would, I would want it to be or maybe even as abstract as like someone like, Randy probably was trying to create. Just because if I'm going to sing on some shit, I'm like, you know, I like, I like choruses.

Like, I want to go back and sing this chorus again. You know what I mean? Whereas Randy, I feel like to someone like Randy, he's not interested. He's not, I'm sure he likes choruses, but I don't think he's. Randy likes fucking Bell witch. Randy wants to stitch all the songs together into one song where the synth running throughout. he's on some next level shit that I don't that I don't he's a fucking genius yeah exactly exactly so a lot of the times I think he has to I can understand his frustration because he probably feels like oh I got to meet these guys at their level you know what I mean in my and and you know we're at the fart sniffing level and Randy's at the fucking yeah he's God tiered excuse me guys I've completed music what you're doing is wrong what you're doing is it here's a here's a thing oh no am I going to forget it have I forgotten what I was going to say oh I

But does this happen? I'm just, this is just me hypothesizing. Does Randy take it more seriously because he doesn't have like another relatively big outlet? I don't... Randy and Mac, I would say.

Right. Now, I don't think they necessarily take it more seriously. Like, I don't think they're delusional in any sense. I think that they probably wish it could be more serious, as, as does probably every member of Tradewin. So I think that there is a little bit of like, oh, man. Is there more fire in them? Right. Right. I'm getting at. That's what I mean. Right. I feel like there may be, um, like I know Mack loves Tradewind. Um, and whether that's because he's a fan of the music, I'm sure he is, or he just likes writing with us, um, or whether he wishes he was

in a, in a band. Like, I don't, I don't necessarily know that Mac wishes, um, he's, he could tour as extensively as, you know, like, Matt, Mac has like a really cool home life that he built that I think he's, he enjoys thoroughly. And he would be in a fucking band. Right. If he wanted to do that. Exactly.

He's so good at drumming that. It's like, exactly. If that's something he actually wanted, then he would. And I know he had done, he, he spent before the pandemic touring with a bunch of, like, really massive pop artists. And he, he crushes that kind of music. He crushes. He's really great at metal.

like he's great at trade win like he's just a very good and dynamic drummer um but but yeah i i think that they they definitely probably wish it was like i wish we could do this i wish trade win can be what stick to your guns or what stray is you know um and again i don't i don't even disagree with that i think that would be fucking sick it's just not unfortunately not really in the realm of possibility at least right now yeah you just don't want to do it Honestly, just fucking listen to the album. This is what I always say to people who want to do the downbeaters press or whatever. Like, I've got a lot of monthly listeners now.

40,000, sometimes 50, depending on the guests. Fucking go. Which is sick. But I'm not selling the music. I'm selling the fucking person. I know that you're sick as far. I know you're sick as fuck. Some people that listen to my podcast might not.

Here's what I'll say as well. I feel like British people or even, I'll say this, people who live under the rule of the queen, Canada, the UK, Australia. I feel like they generally understand tradewind and appreciate trade wind way more than their American counterparts. Why that is, I don't know. I think it's because a lot of the music we listen to where, you know, is like I love, I love Brit music. I fucking love it. You know what I mean? So I feel like that influences a lot of how I approach trade win.

And so maybe that's why, you know, people from England maybe understand it. That's the thing. I feel like I don't have to sell trade win. Whereas like I feel like maybe a German stick to the average German stick to your guns fan, I feel like they maybe have to be sold like, wait, why are you doing this? Whereas like with the people in the UK generally have maybe. Exactly. They have a broader, maybe more, a little bit more.

of a broader like uh taste or palette for music instead of just like kind of honing in on one style of of of music i think in a way though it's it's actually quite cute is that a fucking bird now i know i'm so sorry i live in a zon fucking doctor dool i think it's kind of cute actually though that that germans will i'm i'm only saying germans we've talked a lot about Germans, but it's because Stick to Your Guns is the Well, you can't leave the microphone. I need you to answer what I'm about to say.

Yeah. Shut up. I'm only using Germans because Stick to Your Guns is absolutely massive in Germany. But I think it's funny how like Euro fans in particular are like trying to understand trade win.

Even if they don't like it, it just proves that it's kind of cute. It just proves their allegiance to you. Right. Okay, Jesse's new band. I like it. I'm supposed to. I'm supposed to like it.

This is my god. My god and savior. Is there a lyrical theme? What the fuck does the title mean? Oh my God. I'm so sorry. I thought this was going to make it better, taking her out,

but it didn't. It made it worse. Okay. Tell me the lyrical theme. Oh my God. That was right into the microphone. I know. I'm so sorry.

There's a bird. Lemon, shut the fuck up, dude. The lyrical. theme. I mean, I try to, I try to, I try, I really try to approach the, the whole like, you know, capitalism thing. And I mean, I think right from the title, the day we got what we deserved, you can kind of tell it's like, oh, fuck, you know, like, yeah, this is, this is going to be some shit. Now, every song on the record, you know, there's the, there's the normal songs about, oh, this fucking person broke my heart. I definitely deserved it, but it still sucks.

You hear her flapping around? Yeah, I'm ending this the minute you tell me what the fucking record means because I'm going to compress this fucking bird song. I know. I'm so sorry. Hold on a second. It's fine. We've hit the fucking, we've hit, we've hit the allocated time needed.

Okay. I'm back. Fucking, yeah, straight up a zoo. Just fucking let it out the window. It's like you're free now. Bye.

Um, but yeah, I, I think, but obviously, you know, the, the thing, I was trying to have a two-pronged approach,

like the day we got what we deserve in speaking about like, yeah, there's a relationship. that isn't working. And we tried everything we could. And, you know, there's that idea. There's like a business term called sunken cost fallacy, which is basically like the mindset that people get into where they go, like, I've already dumped this amount of time into

this thing. So therefore I need to keep going. And that can be very dangerous, whether it be in business or whether it be in relationship or whatever it is. And so it's like, yeah, this is the day we got what we deserved. our relationship fell apart and exploded both of our lives, but we, we, we rebuilt. And, you know, and I was able to, you know, now start over again, even though it was fucking terrible. And the same sense, it's the day we got what we deserved in the societal sense

where it's like, look, if we keep going down this path and keep doing these things that we know are going to end us, then that's what we deserve. And, you know, the thing about the earth, it's like, I am an environmentalist. I think that we need to look after the planet and we need to take care of it and that we all need to learn how to coexist with it instead of being this thing that's plaguing it. But the Earth will, will and can heal itself.

We even saw that during the pandemic. And in no way am I an eco-fascist where I'm saying like, I want to be fucking Thanos and I'm not trying to be like, people are the problem and they're always going to be the problem so we should fucking kill half the population. That's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that we can learn and the earth is trying to communicate with us.

And the earth is trying to tell us like, hey, I'm not feeling great. And y'all are the problem. And if you don't stop, I'm just going to shake myself like a dog and send you all out into outer space. So I can so that I can breathe again. You know what I mean? So I think that we need to learn that like the planet isn't fucking around. It's not something that we can like dominate. It's not something that we can like beat into submission.

it will do what it's going to do unless we learn how to exist with it. And so whether that be from an environmental stance, whether that be from an economic system or a social system, like we need to figure out a way where we can all communicate with each other and have some sort of mutual respect and dignity towards one another. We don't have to like everyone. You know what I mean? I'm sure Craig knowing you,

I'm sure you agree with the majority of things that I said. Having said that, you and I both don't like most. most of the people we come in contact with. But that doesn't mean I want them to die or that I want bad things for them. I want for the people to have the things that they need in order to have a successful life. But yeah, I also just... I don't know anymore.

Sometimes I'm like at a crossroad. And if someone doesn't let me out in my car, in my red BMW, if someone doesn't let me out, because for some reason they've judged me. I imagine them flipping their car and getting trapped in the wreckage and then the flames engulfing them. We're not talking about being in the car. That's a different, that's a different guy. You're not talking to that guy.

That guy only lives in the car. The day we finally got what we deserved, except if you're in the car. Yeah. Then you're going to get what you deserve. Yeah. Which case you're fair fucking game. So it's a multi-f, it's a multi-fxed. faceted. So you can, what, are you telling me I could read some lyrics and I can, I can,

it's a girl and it's the planet and, and it's, uh, us. Well, when you're looking, like, for example, the first song, Burning of the Iron Age is like, is, that's more of a song where it's like, yeah, this is like, this, oh, it's almost like apocalyptic. Like, this is how the, this is how the, it's too late. Yeah. So let's all hold hands and watch the world fall apart. And, you know, watch it destroy. then die, die, die, die, I explained, which is the next track. I explained in the, when we did the release of the song, that's quite literally about the capitalist system being like, you know, the video is me, shows me going through killing each

member of trade one, which by the way is very therapeutic. I suggest you try to do a stray video like that. I don't hate them enough now because we haven't done anything. Give me a fucking six week tour. Exactly. But that video was me very calm. going around and killing each of them, whereas like if the three of them could have come together

being like, wait, why are we afraid of this dude? You know what I mean? Let's just kill him. You need to watch this fucking film. You're going to. You're literally going to ejaculate. You're going to ejaculate. I cannot wait. But, yeah, that's like the capitalist thing.

I think after that is Bishop, and that's, you know, that song's more about a relationship one. And you're going to be able to tell just from listening. Bishop was my favorite. Mine too. Mine too. Of course it fucking. We're the same guy.

We're the fucking same guy. Real quick. Hit me. Give me a top. I didn't even tell you this. I need your top five bands of all time. Ooh. I think you already know this.

So Godspeed. Godspeed is definitely one of us. I mean, man, I'm such a mark for Ephraim Mnuck that like even Ephraim Mnuck's solo records. Ephraim Minnuck is the guy who's basically started Godspeed, even though Godspeed is technically like a collective. And sometimes they play. and there's like four people, and then sometimes they play, and there's like 25.

Which is so great. You never know what you're walking into. But Ephraim Manuel Minnuck from Montreal, he does that band. He does Silver Mountain Zion, another band I love. He does his own solo records, which I love. So, I mean, maybe I'll just put all of his bands under one kind of thing. Propagandy, another one of my favorites. I'll throw a hardcore band in there, Terror.

I just think Terror is like the most pure. hardcore band of all time. Like, yeah, there's other ones who have put out better records than Terror Records, but I think Terror is the most consistent hardcore band and a band who I truly feel like lives and loves the music.

Trying to think, trying to think, trying to think. Okay, here's where you don't have to think because what I want to do is I've realized now I provide a service with the downbeat, which actually comes back to what we said earlier about how if you give people more resources, they'll be more productive and happier. Right. The minute the downbeat went to Patreon,

which means that I kind of get paid for it, I release twice as many episodes now because I'm far more fucking comfortable. But a lot of people haven't heard of bands in people's top fives, and they're like, thank you so much for getting me into, like some of the more underground shit, cult of lunar stuff like that. So we'll do a godspeed.

We'll do a like where should people start. The vibe is very fucking apocalyptic. Oh definitely. Yeah. Sound scapey, droney. What's the technical? I mean, it's pretty, it's, it can be pretty like pretentious up your own fucking ass like art, art rock fucking shit.

But I don't think that there's any specific. album that, that, uh, I think you could start with any of them to be completely honest with you. Um, and, and you know, another band that's like that who I love is Magway, which I know, I, I know you're a Maguire boys. Love it. Yeah, exactly. Love them. Um, they just got a number one record. The last record went to number one. Really? How sick is that? Amazing. Amazing. Fucking incredible. Um, but yeah, that's another band I love. But I think, but I think like a lot of people start with, with, uh, lift your skinny fists. Um, the Godspeed record. That's a good one. one of my personal favorites is,

is, it's like, um, F sharp. Yeah, that's my favorite. F sharp, A sharp, A sharp infinity.

Yeah. That's my favorite one. That fucking album in the van when I'm just having some, some like, just thoughts. Well, that will not, that will not pull you out of that mindset.

If anything, it's going to send you deeper. Drags me fucking in. Um, but if any, if anyone's seen the movie 28 days later, the main fucking bit of music from that is the last track or second to last track on F sharp infinity

something fucking is like the name of a road I can't remember I don't do names I put the fucking record on and I listen to it East Hastings East Hastings that's why I thought it was a road because it's a place right and then Silver Mount Zion I can't fucking I can't listen to

I mean there's They've left us, but now, well, you know the one I mean, the fucking green one. Yeah, he has left us, I'm looking it up right now. He has left us alone, but the shafts of light sometimes grace the corner of our rooms. It's like, I'm fucking real. Un fucking believable, though, isn't it? So fucking good.

Horses in the sky was the one that I think I started with and then I kind of went. Horses in the sky I can't listen to because there's the song. about missing your dog and it makes me think about my old dog. Oh yeah. Which is, yeah, that's any, any song like that, I'm just like, skip, unless I'm just by myself. And then you want to give me it. But also, the record that they put out that I felt like really rivaled Godspeed was that record fuck off, get free, we pour light on everything.

And that one is like fucking unbelievable. And I think it, I think it touches on a lot of things like almost like, like that was a massive um uh that was a massive like uh inspiration for the first song on the new trade on record um see i haven't given that i haven't given that much time i only do the other two yeah if if there's one called uh there's a song called uh what we loved was not enough and that's very much like um that's very much like that same kind of vibe of like the the world is falling apart so what are we going to do about it and it's it's fucking amazing um but yeah Just that, that band is amazing.

And I, and I've also had, they have a, they have a studio in Montreal called Hotel Two Tango that I was just like, I'm going to record there one day. And, and you can just hire Ephraim as an engineer. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he should probably be like in the halls of music, you know what I mean? Like sitting on a golden throne. Yeah, exactly. But he's just like some guy that anyone can hire to do your record.

And so, you know, he's just, he's a, he's a humble, humble person. you done it then why the fuck haven't you done it i don't know i i feel like i wouldn't i'd be too nervous that's cute i know that's cute i i truly love this man so yeah that's fucking sick um i'm good that was good yeah same you got anything when does your fucking album come out may 21st so next next week the trade win record wait what day is that Friday i think okay so this comes out the day before yeah Comes out tomorrow, guys. And it's really great.

You put it on your fucking stream dog. Do the fucking thing. Let's fucking do it. My last thing will say, I'll say read Wretched of the Earth. The Wretched of the Earth by France Phanon. That's for people who are interested in any sort of political things that I maybe have said today. Start there. Incredibly important.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to have to check that out before I leave that bit in. No, I'm joking. It's like some fucking book on it. How to build a bomb and take it... How to build a bomb and take it into your local bank by Jesse Barnett. Anyway, on that fucking note, I love you to death. I miss you.

Craig, I miss the fuck Eddie, pal. I want to see you. Remember that time? One of my fondest memories was when me, you and Tom. You know what I'm going to say? We bought whole boxes of cereal. Captain Crane. cut the boxes so they became big fucking bowls,

poured it all in, and we just sat. I think we watched fucking Superbad or something. And that's what I want to be doing. That's what I want to be doing. So let's fix society so that I don't got to be out on my weekends feeding people. I don't want to be, I want to be making giant bowls of Captain Crunch with my friends. Help me.

Oh, fuck. I love you so much. Can just email me your file, Wave form, and I'll figure the rest out. we'll do pal nice one man love you love you bye