The Downbeat - Josh Smith - Northlane

Episode Date: May 2, 2021

My guest this week is Josh Smith, guitarist of Northlane. As well as playing guitar for the Australian progressive metalcore (?) giants, Josh is also a manager and keen cyclist. We talk about all of that, and a bunch of other stuff. Just listen to it. Peace!

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Unless you're on the Patreon, in which case you're too early, there's not new stuff. What have I been doing? lockdown finished ish haven't done anything different are doing more of these twitching playing the drums I'm ready to do some video podcasts actually guys I've started um I've started getting them ready I've started asking people who are in the Glasgow area on tour coming up you want to do a podcast we'll do it video we'll do it live already got people booked in how sick is that it's gonna look like Christopher fucking Nolan making a shitty little fucking podcast about music sick.

My guest this week is Josh Smith from North Lane. The Australian North Lane. Famous Australia. Why do I keep saying famous? What's wrong with me? Yeah, he plays a guitar in North Lane. But also what I learnt is that he's also a manager of some bands, like make them suffer.

Another big Australian fucking monster band. Super good band. And he's also the best at exercising. Fucking, what are they called? Decathlons? Is that the shop or the thing? Triathlon, that's the one. Something like that.

I'll just pick stuff up and put him back down again, but he's into actual health. So we talk about that. We talk about black metal for a bit. We talk about everything I just mentioned that he does. They're in the studio right now, recording a new album, which is sort of a scoop but not a scoop

they've rented a big house for it he's going to tell you all about it right now it's Josh on the Dowby podcast from North Lane Smith What time is it? What are you doing? It's 458 At this time of day my brain turns to complete fucking mush I struggle in the afternoons

because I drink too much coffee throughout the day I've got one right here nice mug you got there thanks it's an architect's mug yeah what coffee are you drinking what you got what you got there well let me backpedal a little

I'm at a house in the dandynong mountains just outside of Melbourne because we're doing a new Northline album here are you allowed to say that yeah I'm allowed to say that fucking say what I want no I just mean is it like

Is that a scoop? Yeah. Because I didn't know that. It's not entirely a scoop. Like we posted a few videos on our socials, but yeah, we're not keeping it a secret. Well, it's not a secret now. Yeah, anyway, I brought my Mocker Master up here, like a bachelor's machine. And it's been going like 24 hours a day.

So, yeah, that's what I'm drinking. Are they working? it. Oh, mate. Look, well, I can't answer that question because my beautiful, wonderful partner, Angie, actually bought it for my birthday last year. But I've used it every single day since then. So is it worth it 100%. I hear good things like, I'm drinking a V60 now and it's just, sometimes I just can't be bothered to sit there. And it's a lot of faf. I, I used to do V60s a lot as well. I like the Mockermaster because it's got a hot plate, it stays warm.

You don't have to worry, like, because the V60s, I was making quite large. And then it would go cold after you have your first cup. So after that, you're drinking cold piss. But, yeah. So where are you the fucking dandelion mountains? Dandy Nong. Dandy fucking Nong Dandy Nong

What you got like a little house It's a big house actually It's really nice For recording it Everyone living in there Nick Pedison isn't here yet He's recording his drums Afterwards back in Sydney

At a studio there But the rest of us are here With Chris Blancato Who Kind of engineered our last album Who's doing this one as well and the house it's like

it's pretty lush pretty nice we've all got our own space for once really beats like four or five of us sharing a fucking couch yeah having mice run over us in the night like it's a big step up from some of the places where I've had to sleep is that Will Putney dig

that's not a Will Putney dig is that Will Putney dig because I've met that mouse I love that fucking mouse up 100%. I mean he's not there anymore. He's got a new fucking plush complex. I heard his new digs are great. Yeah, anyway, this house though, I really struck gold with it

because it's like cheaper than hiring a studio every day. But you have accommodation as well. And it's like an hour from where most of us live. So that's awesome. But it also has like a cinema. So the person who built this house is fucking loaded Because it has a cinema with like eight of those You know when you go to them

I don't know how what it's like in the UK But here we've got like movies that you can pay 20 bucks or 25 bucks to go to And then there's like gold class And Lux and all that shit Depending The nicer seats And it's like 50 to 70 bucks

And the seats are sick It's got like eight of those seats in it Um And it And it's acoustically treated amazingly well. And Chris thinks it sounds better than his studio at home. And it's isolated. So it's like perfect.

It couldn't be any better. So you're tracking in the cinema? Pretty much, yeah. I thought you were just going to say some fucking Northland shit like this. So we're watching The Matrix like every day. My other favorite feature as well is the, there's like incredible views of the city and like a spa on. on the deck overlooking them.

So I've been making use of it every night. Yeah. It's great. It's unreal. Fuck yeah. So what's your normal day in the studio? Well, I... Because it's four o'clock and you're talking to me.

You can't be doing it. So when we work in the studio, like John pretty much records all the guitar and bass. I don't have a lot to do with it. In the past, I'd like sit over his shoulder and shit. But now I'm just too busy with my... management stuff that I do. So I'm kind of dropping in on him and Marcus here and there. It's only early days though, so it might change. But today I woke up at 5.30, rode my bike down the base of the mountain to the swimming pool, trained at the pool for an hour

and a half, then did some training on the bike, finished up at about 9.30. It was at my desk by 10. I've just been working here all day. I did a bit of work with Marcus on vocal stuff. now I'm talking to you. A fucking busy guy. You got up at 5.30 on purpose. Yeah, that's what I do, man. You're like one of those fucking guys now. I used to be.

Before I got into music. And drinking. And drinking, yeah. I, well, when I was a teenager, I was an elite swimmer and then I got into triathlon. So I was a triathlete. That's where you got that fucking V-taper from. I always see, I'm always used to think like, Josh's got some shit about him.

He's got some shoulders. You got that swimmer shoulder. Right. Anyway, I got back in a, like, I used to do cycling more in the triathlon off-season because you can't do triathlon in winter. It's just too cold. Even in your winter.

Your winter's fucking, Man, Melbourne's fucking cold, man. Is it? Is it? Yeah. I used to live in Canberra, which is even worse. It's fucking cold.

How freezing is freezing? Like freezing, freezing. Like zero degrees? Yeah. No. Australia doesn't get that cold. Melbourne in winter is like almost as bad as UK winter,

but not quite. Like maybe a few degrees warmer, but just. just as shit and rainy and cold. Yeah. But anyway, I used to do, yeah, the cycling, like, I used to be in a cycling club and race that in the winter and then got into music, decided I just wanted to, like,

drink a bottle of red wine on stage every night and be a pisshead. That's the Josh, though, I know. Everyone knows that, Josh. But, yeah, maybe, oh, it would have been almost, probably about 18 months ago, so maybe six months before COVID kicked off, I got back in a cycling, like in a big way. And then I kind of, yeah, it kind of kept me on the straight and narrow through all the shit that we've had to deal with as musicians, because, you know, it's really easy for me to just fucking get pissed every night and be miserable and fat. But I got into that.

And that kind of saved me from falling off the wagon. And I decided I needed more goals to work towards. So I decided to get back into triathlon. And I have a coach and everything. But I've been really disciplined with my training for that. And most mornings I'm up at about 5.30 because I like to kind of get all my training done in the morning. By the time the music industry is awake, like I'm at my desk anyway. And then I just go to sleep early.

So it's like... How early? Like 10, 30, 11. That's still quite late for a 5 a.m. wake. You get used to it. I've done the opposite. I can't do naps. I wish I could.

I just can't do it. If I did nap, I like freak out. And then when I go to bed that night, I can't sleep. It's a fucking whole thing. I did the opposite to everyone else. With the pandemic, like when I'm on tour, I'm pretty, because I play shit if I'm hungover, I'm pretty fucking, I'll drink if we've got a day off or I'll have a couple of beers a night, but I won't get like hammered, hammered. Pandemic, hammered every day.

Like, I did that at the start. A full fucking year of it. I've only just come out of it. But you guys had it worse than us. Like, I remember when we were going through the really bad lockdowns in Melbourne, like, if you got some bad news, I'd just be like, fuck it. I'm drinking two bottles of wine tonight. It's insane, isn't it? It's just like, oh, what do I have to do tomorrow? Nothing.

Yeah, yeah, it's depressing. I don't really want to talk about it, but... Nah, we won't. But, like, you know, yeah, I'm one of those guys again. And, like, I've raised two Olympic distance triathons this year so far. And now I'm working towards Iron Man. So I'm doing... What's an Iron Man?

It's like a longer distance triathlon. Come on, give me the numbers. There's going to be some fucking exercise nerds listening. I don't want to know. Let me pull them up. Pull it up. Pull it up. I've gotten myself into shit and I'm not entirely sure.

So the ones that I'm doing are called Iron Man 70.3. So, used to be known as half Iron Man. refers to the total miles covered 1.2 mile swim, 56 mile bike and 13.1 run. In one go? Yeah. In one go. How long is the run?

Half marathon. Fuck that. So for kilometres it's 1.9, 90 and 21.1. And then full Iron Man. 90. Yeah. Full Iron Man is double that, which. That'll be next year, I think.

Start small. What the fuck do you think of when you're doing that shit? Do you just love it? Sure, it must be hard? You know what? It's funny because it's like, I don't know. Like... It's sadistic.

Yeah. So when I was racing, like, before I got back in a triathlon, I was racing criteriums, like cycling, which are like small street circuit races that are like really fast and actually pretty dangerous. Like there'd be a crash every week and someone would be carried out in an ambulance and I'd just be like, what the fuck am I doing here? I don't belong here. Jesus.

This is fucking stupid and nuts. But when I did my first triathlon, I was like, fuck, I actually really love this shit because I'm crazy. I don't know. I just enjoy it, man. It's like I went through a phase when I was younger where I was really into weightlifting and like, you know, I know you do that and it's, yeah, I guess it's like the races because they're so brutal or like a really great payoff for the training that you have to put in

because the training is like the hard part, the race is the easy part where you kind of rewarded for that. It's like practicing and then writing songs and going through all the hardships of being a musician and then being rewarded by playing a really good show. That's what it feels like. But playing a really good show isn't fucking horrible. I get it. It must be like, I don't know, this is going to sound dark as fuck.

I feel like even with weightlifting and stuff like that, there's like an element of fucking, with me anyway, there's an element of self-hate. Yeah. It's like, I want to fucking, I hate this person and I want to crush them to build them back better. Yeah, totally, man. Totally. I think some people have it and some people don't have it.

Like, if I'm in the gym and I miss, miss something, like I miss my reps or whatever, or my weight, I'll do a punishment sent after it. And it'll be drop down and fucking try to kill yourself. No, 100%. I, like, my coach writes me a program that I, to follow really strictly. But occasionally I get carried away and he'll have a laugh about it. But I know exactly what you're talking about and it's like, it's self-conviction. And it's something that's super important to have.

Like I developed those skills as a teenager because I was like when I was going to like high school, I was training two hours before school in the pool and then I go to school. And then depending on the day of the week, like the busiest days would be an hour in the gym after that, another two hours swim session, then I go home and do my homework. So like I grew up living like this and it's kind of nice to go back to it because it just makes me feel a lot better about myself. That's good to hear. I like hearing people like getting back into something healthy during all this shit because I know a lot of people who did the opposite, including myself. Yeah, I just, you know, I got too much responsibility these days and too many people relying on me for me to go that way, I think. Well, let's just dip into that then.

Yeah. Because you said, you talked about your management. What's going on there? Who are you managing? I have a management company with a guy called Chris O'Brien called Open Door Management. You guys own the company. It's your own thing. Yeah, we're partners in it.

And then we have another manager on board called Roy Amar. I manage North Lane myself. And then Chris and I manage make them suffer. Oh, sick. And we manage a band called Wind Waker, which are like, they just recorded their debut record, and it's fucking phenomenal and they're going to blow up. I think they're really great.

Go on, get a plug-in. What kind of shit is it? It's really interesting. It's like really accessible. I guess you could call it rock music, but it's got like a metal edge to it. But it's not like, I don't mean like singing choruses with metal verses

like most metalcore bands. I wouldn't even call it metalcore. It's just really fresh and interesting. They're like, they're pretty young and I really like working with them because they give me a lot of inspiration because when you're working, you know, I'm not going to say my band or like any particular bands that I work with, but a lot of artists once they get to our age, they're pretty fucking jaded. So to see like how pumped these guys get, you know, on what they're doing and how exciting I think their music is, it really raises my spirits. which is something, you know, at the moment that doesn't go astray. So, like, if you give them, you tell them, this is your two dates. There's a 16-hour drive in between the two.

And they're like, fuck, yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Pretty much. Oh, I wish that was still me. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. I know exactly what you're fucking talking about.

I'm spoiled baby now. I'm fucking spoiled little baby. But, like, yeah, working with them just, yeah, fucking. I don't know, just jeez me up. I got another developing act that we haven't announced yet. And there's one other that's looking pretty likely too that are more of like a legacy band. I can't drop names.

No scoops though, no scoops. Yeah, I just can't do it. But yeah, that's like pretty much all I do now. Like Chris is kind of taken over the shop because I had boutique sounds as well. Which was a shop, but you also had a podcast? Yeah, yeah. I did a podcast for it.

Yeah. Did? Is that a stop that? Yeah, man, I just, I've got my fucking hands in too many pies. I was going to say, yeah, we're fucking racking them up here. Yeah, I, I, um. One hundred miles of fucking bullshit and then. You know what's funny?

You'd think with all the training and shit that I do that I'll get less done, but I get more done because I fuck around less. So like when I'm at my desk, I'm working, I'm not procrastinating. I'm way more focused and I'm not hung over all the time, which is sick. But yeah, I mean like for me, just I kind of figured out what I should be doing. And the management thing's interesting because I never wanted to do it. I managed a band in collaboration with my old manager. I'm saying the word manage a lot a long time ago. A long time ago and it wasn't a great experience

and it really put me off ever doing it again. And I swore that I never would. And then I got put in a position where I had to take over North Lane's management because we were in a really shit spot and we got cut loose from our management company. and no one at that stage wanted to take us on. So, and we had a lot of problems to fix too. We actually, Silent Plug, did a documentary about all that called Negative Energy,

which you can watch on YouTube for free. But that's how I got back into managing. Nice plug. Yeah, thanks. That's the sort of shit a manager would do. That's how I got back into managing and it was terrifying at first, but I was like, you know what, I actually have the aptitude to do this. I have the skills.

Like, I went to uni for, like, kind of related stuff. So I kind of know what I'm doing, I think. They can't say that and not tell me what you went to uni for. I did economics and marketing. There we go. Yeah. Now we're talking. But I dropped out in my last year to go on tour, though.

So I know. never got my degree. It doesn't fucking matter. You still, yeah, but you still learn all the shit. Yeah, exactly.

Some of the shit that I learned like I never used, but some of it was really helpful, like your stats and business management skills and especially marketing. But,

yeah, where the fuck? I'm just fucking so lost. I've been talking for a year. You're talking about how you got into managing your own thing. Was that before Node? Just before Node?

No, it was, after it was after Mesma came out our fourth album we told I first met you just before Mesma came out didn't I so that album came out

and shit was bad for us and that's when I took on management and then nice yeah the lowest point we've ever been why was it so bad come on

we were in abhorrent amount of debt. No one was coming to our shows anymore. We weren't getting any tour offers. And we were... What was the debt from? That's a good question. It had kind of accumulated over time from like unpaid, like, travel account expenses.

There was like a fucking credit card and shit. and I there's not I have to be really careful what I say here um that's why I said it yeah

this is a management test I can't go into I can't go into these details but I want to know who's fucking fault here no I don't carry on I don't want to get sued

um oh fuck you are a manager look at this fucking business man if anyone if anyone can't see which is everyone except me he's wearing a suit and tie. I'm wearing a fucking Slayer shirt

that's got really weird looking stains on it. Don't listen to him. He's lying. He's got a suit and tie. But it's like a weird tuxedo thing. Like it almost like he's trying too hard. Look, anyway, I'm going to get to the fucking point. I got us out of it. We put Alien out. It did really, really well. Things have been great ever since.

Well, you can't do that because we've got a podcast today. I can pull it apart if you want, but... Not really. What my point was is, like, some friends of mine that also playing band saw what I was doing and said that they wanted to work with me explicitly. And I said, oh, fuck, I can't take anything on myself. So I've partnered up with Chris O'Brien.

We started the management company, and now we've taken a few acts on board. And that was that make them suffer? It was like, come on, do us? Yes. Yeah, because I... That band's so fucking good. I know. I used to live with Nick.

He used to live like in the same house as me above me. And we used to share a studio room. And holy fuck that guy works hard, man. He would be at his desk night and day writing, playing guitar all the time. And he's a fucking monster guitar player. He's so good. He's... Him and Tom from your band,

the only guys that I know in this kind of realm of music loosely that are single guitar players and that is something that's really hard to do very well, you know. And he's one of them. He's just absolutely brilliant. I think he's so underrated. But yeah, fucking awesome. I don't think I could go back to being in a band with two guitarists. Yeah.

From a drummer's point of view. It's just glorious. I've got one person to lock in, well, one main person to like lock in with guitar boys. You've not got, like, obviously you've explained it's not a problem, but you just, candidly, a lot of people probably don't know,

most albums, when they get recorded, one guitarist records everything. But there is a point in every fucking guitarist who isn't the guy that records everything's life, where that is so, crushing and they insist on let me do it let me i'll do this song and it's just worse for everyone it's worse for the producer he has to edit two fucking different types of guitars go on go on come on if i'll give one piece of advice to people listening it is that

find what you're best at and just fucking do that and don't try and put your your dick or your whatever where it doesn't belong For me, it's the thing. In my band, nobody has the skills I have. I have to do this because by me managing the band, we make way more money because we're not paying commissions to anyone and they trust me to do it, which is a huge problem. A lot of bands don't trust management, you know. That's like us and Tom. It's the same thing. You don't trust him. No, we know he's the best for the band. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So, John, on the other hand, incredibly talented songwriter, works best on his own. So I don't, you know, when he writes, yeah, we tell him what we think. Yeah, I'm really critical of it and I give suggestions and all of that. But I don't try and impose on his space because it's what he's really good at doing. and of course it makes sense for him to just go and put that to tape, you know? Like, it's, I mean, there's been a few instances where he's been like, can you just play this part or something?

But, man, I just think it's super counterproductive and it doesn't need to happen. Unless, unless as a band, you all write together and you all have unique parts. Like if you were a band like Carnival for his band, example, everyone needs to go and play their own part, really. Yeah, but if it's like metal core quad-tracked and you've got some guitarist that is insisting that they play exactly the same riff, it's just going to sound worse, take twice as long. Even from like, I don't know if it's me getting into fucking old age or laziness or something, when you think of it as like a business decision, it's like, okay, you, you don't

have to play on this song because it's going to be better if the other person plays on this song. And like, for that person to, because of their ego, to fight to do that, even though it's going to be worse and take longer, is a fucking insane business decision. Yeah. The business decision should be, oh, I have to do less. Sick. That's the thing. The album's going to take less time and I have to do less.

That's fucking perfect. And even if you're involved with the song running, instead of wasting everyone's fucking time and money because recording is expensive, right? That's why we've gone to this house. Especially if you do it in a cinema. This house costs half as much per day as like the studio we were doing our vocals at. So, you know, from a business decision, it makes sense to record here. But that's a whole, you know, that's a whole other thing. What I was going to say is like if someone is really good and has all of the songs. under their belt and is ready to go and you're not that person.

Maybe you can think about other things that you can do to make the situation better, whether it's cooking dinner for your bandmates or whether it's like... Exactly. Whether it's like, you know, maybe adding something else to another part or trying to write some lyrics, even if they're shit. Perfect. Yeah, perfect a lyric or just anything that's... not counterproductive, you know? And out of all the things that my band has been able to do,

the one thing that we've done really, really well in that sense is what they call division of labor, which is really just finding your role in the machine and doing your job, taking responsibility of what you have to do and nailing it. And I know straight does it really well too. Tom has his stuff. Obviously like, because he writes as well, he's got a lot on his plate, you know. And manages other bands. Yeah. Psycho, absolutely. I don't know. Does he sleep? I honestly, no. I can see right now, because I've got Discord open over there, Tom right now, what's the time in fucking Nashville? It's, wow. It's 438. am.

Fuck me. Tom. Tom, Discord, playing Fortnite. Right now at 4.30. So he works all fucking day and then he plays Fortnite. He's not a human. He's got a child. Yeah, that too.

I'm up at 4.30 playing Fortnite. I've got a kid. I don't want to sweat him, but he's one of my favorite guitar players, man. He's really good. Really, really consistent. He's just you. unique, isn't he? Yeah, he is. Weird, weird shit.

I think there's a lot of, like, beauty in that, that, um, you know, like, a lot of kids get distracted by playing really flashy shit and they miss the fundamentals that make good music. I was having a really interesting discussion with the guys in my band today, and I'm not trying to rip on anyone, but, um, we were just talking about how it's really interesting that some of the biggest, you know, I guess you could say, for lack of better word, stars in music now are people that play shit on Instagram and upload it and have huge followings. Let's talk shit. Come on, come on.

I'm not talking shit. I'm going to, though. You're going to be very managerial. I'm going to talk the shit. I was just going to say that, like, you know, to me. me the important thing as an artist is leaving something behind and if you write a really good album you know that's got longevity and to me for kids that's young people i think focusing on what's really important and that's creating you know fascinating art that stands the test of time that's what people will remember you for right so hypothetical that's an amazing point that i don't

even think I've ever thought of the leaving something behind is a fucking, it's also a great way to sort of sort of dig in. But without being, you can do both. You can do both. Without being whatever. But do you not think that maybe

the amount that people always want to be musicians. Yeah. People like, kids are coming up now and they know that you get paid fuck all from streaming, but they still want to be musicians for whatever reason. Do you not think that like, the push for making content and shit like that is just a product of the fact that we are

underpaid for our fundamental role. Like everyone has to be a fucking personality if you want to make money. I've only made money in the last fucking year because I decided to be a fucking internet man. Like I wouldn't have made any money. Australia's not fucking touring. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of ways to be. to skin this cat. I think you can.

You can actually make good money as a recording artist. Not everyone can't, though. There's not enough jobs for everyone that wants to be a musician to make the money they used to. Well, let's not talk about... Just recording. Just recording. Yeah, let's not talk about the way things used to be because it's not relevant anymore. But what is relevant as streaming?

And if you have an audience that listens to your music and you have a big catalogue and you have distribution or recording deals that give you a really good split, you can make a lot of money off streaming. Yeah, but that's a band that already exists. I'm talking about these kids coming up. Yeah. Can you blame them for like making an edit? edited guitar video like the fucking buried alive guy and sticking it on fucking

Instagram yeah I said it uh sticking it on Instagram and then for people to be amazed and then you get half the hate because people say it's edited and half the hate and not like half the love like blame people doing that you know what I'm fucking talking about it on a podcast there you go he's got some more press that's the thing whether or not you like it you're talking about it people are going to check them out it worked yeah like i think no no no i think like social media presence is incredibly important especially because we can't tour how else do you get in front of people right but word of advice to people is you do all that shit but make sure that you're writing really good

songs because if you want to be a career musician that's what you have to do songs are the currency in this industry you know people who play other roles in the industry will lead you to believe that they created bands, that they created the success of bands, like record label people, A&R people will be like, I discovered so on, so.

I think all of that's horse shit. I think if you write really good music, your audience will find you. Who you pick up on the way is up to you. The decisions you make are really important in, you know, where your end game is, but if you write really good songs,

it's going to work out. out. And I think that's the most important thing, you know? That's the answer that I give to people when they ask on stream, like, oh, how do I make it? It's literally, A, the word make it is not a straight line. B, no. Like, just make fucking good music because people will find it.

Yeah. Like, don't go on to someone's fucking, some other band's post and spam your band like some shity fucking marketing mate the marketing tactics and then you get the shit houses even further than that who sell these marketing courses and it's stuff

like Facebook. I saw Andrew Mac and any posting one of those and Andrew Mac was oh wait it wasn't exactly what you're talking about but it was like a page where you could pay them to share his drumming video

oh yeah and he just took the piss for a bit he's like one of my favorite people in the whole world and he's fucking hilarious and just the way that he strung those people all along just killed me I couldn't deal with it yeah it was like they were saying to pay for a shout out and then he was just going made them end up saying so much fucking shit

and then he did actually pay pal other than the money yeah it was funny it's funny but yeah I can't it's weird because I'm in like I'm in two minds about the whole thing Like, especially the guy that I just said, if everyone doesn't know, there's a guitarist called Buried Alive, and it's quite obviously,

it's put up and it's very, very, very, very edited. But, I mean, it looks like the guy can play it, but because of this culture of everything must be fucking stupidly shiny, it's CD quality audio with a video of a guy playing. And you've got 50% of the people who are amazed by it, and 50% who are, infuriated by it. The end of the day, it's working, but in my head, I'm like, should that be your tactic?

There was, to infuriate. Wasn't there, um, this has happened before. Arm machine? Yes. Yes. Yeah, I was in that band. What were you? I was in, yeah, I played the drums on the album.

No shit. Yeah, and they're great songs. To look like Alex Rudinger. Fucking hell. Yeah. Couldn't fucking play. Still can't play. It's fucking 11 years later.

Wow. That was 11 years ago. 11 fucking years ago. I have been married, divorced. Like, I've done so much in those 11 years. So that guy is still fucking doing nothing. I, um, yeah, wow. I remember looking at those videos when we were,

recording singularity in two thousand and two thousand and i don't even two thousand i don't even know two thousand twelve the album came out but it was written in 2010 right you maybe it was yeah it would have been in 2012 that i saw it i think it was because of nolly i can't remember yeah it was so long ago yeah but it was uh you know that that's a lesson there like unless you've got the fucking chops to back it up you will be doing nothing for 11 years well i think it's important for you to be able to play above the music you're performing because how else you can drink two bottles of wine well yeah there's that have more fun to bring you down to just just about nailing it

perform well i i think you have to have an ability that's above what you're playing 100% yeah i never play you at my at my like capacity live like out of a whole tour there's maybe two shows where I went I think oh fuck yeah I nailed it the rest of them are like

I'm fucking blowing it but you've just got to make your skill level so much higher over getting it right that when you quote unquote blow it live it's still the correct performance we've all blown it live oh fuck it I remember that's what we did together I fucking buy.

That's one of the times I think Tom threw like some song I'd never played live before. I think we were in fucking where were we? Was that that amity tour? Yeah. We were in Switzerland and Tom through,

it was before I was playing to a clip and Tom threw like some song I'd never played before. It was like yeah, we're going to play this tonight because Switzerland loves it. I was like, okay, the five people here love it.

Yeah, they stream really high here. we haven't done it haven't done it in ages and then Drew came in wrong and we had to fucking stop the song and start again on like on stage that's fucked

that is not okay geez no I've we've had some doozies in the past um really bad ones I

my most embarrassing moment was in I think it was in Sweden and it was on the mesmer cycle so there was about fucking 20 people at the show and there was this part in a song where it was literally just me playing over a synth part and I had these like pink Floyd style

part I had to play like real David Gilmory like a few notes held really long soul with a very clean sounding guitar and I just played the wrong fucking note and held it because I was like, where do I go from here? So exposed. Yeah, it was like just me. There's like you could swing a cat in the room and it's just these pricks looking at me like fuck you.

Why did I come here tonight to watch this shit? That's so fucking funny. Yeah, and like, man, oh, my band didn't let it go for days. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Do you ever have that fucking, like, because you guys are on like crazy in-air fucking system. You ever have that fuck up? No.

I always just think that when I see it. I just think this looks like trouble. No, never. It's all like. Never? No, because we tour our own. Never gremlin. Never had a gremlin.

We tour our own console and everything. So it's never skip the beat, actually. Because we're not relying on other people to do that for us. I guess so. I guess you probably have the less fuck-ups. Yeah. One time we played at a festival in Australia called Big Day Out, and deaf tones were on the bill.

And Nick and John had some interviews before we played it about midday. ish and just turned up to the stage absolutely fucking smashed and um nick like when he gets drunk has an alter ego called pete who's really funny really funny i don't get to see pete very often i'm kind yeah i don't think i've ever seen him drunk no it's it's because he he just likes to be admirably he likes to be in control of his shit and not a mess but on this day he was a mess And for one of the very few times that I've known him played like fucking shit, and I've done it before, I'm not throwing him under the bus.

But the worst part about it was we're having this dog shit fucking show. And I looked to my right and Stephen Carpenter was watching us play. And I was just like, oh, God, what have we done? That would be it. He just thinks North Lane suck now. Yeah. And I had, um, go-pro footage on my computer from Nick playing that day and he it's he made me delete it so

no one would ever get to see it which I don't blame him for and I feel bad even saying anything about Nick that isn't wonderful because he's just one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life and he's an incredible drama but fuck we've all sucked at certain times Oh, fuck yeah, I suck all the time It's so annoying Just on a constant I'm on, I'm more now I'm on a constant quest

To make my level of sucking Just fine Yeah Just make it so it's like I blew it but it's okay Honestly streaming on Twitch Has really fucking helped that Yeah

Because I'll like I'll run through a stray set And in my head I think this is fucking laborious I'm playing like shit and then I go home and I watch it because I'm a fucking psychopath

and I want to say, oh, you were fucking shit, let's find out where we were shit so we can fix it. And I watch it back and I'm like, oh. That's the best way to get better at playing though is to record yourself. Oh, 100%. Yeah.

But you know it's weird stuff like, oh shit, I'm speeding up there. That's why that section's hard. And then next time you just fucking slow down a little bit and it's way easier. I feel like you hear it different as well. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. I had this chat with,

I can't remember before I think I was talking about with Matt Halpern about like when you're performing, it's like the space between zero and one, like as in like fucking click one and click two is infinite. And when you're playing and you're on that like next level, the fractals between zero and one is getting fucking North Laney now. are like so so zoomed in that any kind of like

microscopic mistake at the time feels like the end of the fucking world and then you hear it back and you're like no I was just like resonating on a frequency that was picking up that shit but overall it's perfect. That's so wild. This kind of reminds me

as something I heard Dan Sell say I think it might have been on your podcast that as well like one of the things that happens over time is you kind of have muscle memory from all the practice that you did when you were younger. So you can take time off playing and then bounce back pretty easily as well. He doesn't practice. And then I remember when we all played fucking unified last summer for you, like January.

And he hadn't played the drums in like fucking three months. And he just went and headlined a festival and fucking ripped. That's fucked. Like sometimes I take breaks from playing, like when I'm off at home. And I find it's good because I kind of come back with a fresh perspective and like really eager to play. But I still have to woodshed before I go on tour. Like, I don't know anyone who doesn't have to do that. I guess he doesn't.

Dan, yeah, Dan. I mean, Kyle Brownie barely practices when he's at home. Counterparts Kyle. I mean, you, you. know from training, I find it's like I train so hard at train quote unquote like playing drums when I'm at home that I get pushed into like getting worse and then I take time off and then the super compensation kicks in and then I'm better and I just need to figure out the the amount of break that is perfect because I just because I just get fucking bored.

So I'm just like I'll go to the gym. I think that's probably. I'm pissing in the wind here, but I think that's probably mental fatigue because, like, takes a lot of mental energy to play an instrument, and if you do it a lot, like, you only have so much mental capacity in a day that you can take on.

It has a huge strain on that. That's why you can't focus on other things as well. You know, no one's a robot and can go 100% all day. like just give me the drug that allows me to do that though you know without like a serious come down doesn't exist it's interesting because like in you know sports or sports and athletics or weightlifting whatever over training is a huge problem it was like the biggest thing that i did wrong when i was younger and only in later stages i've learned how to offset training with recovery properly.

Maybe you need to do the same thing with your brain when it comes to playing an instrument because I know exactly what you're talking about and it's happened to me as well. And then you just come back and you're like, oh, not only am I better at this, but I'm enjoying it more. Maybe just because you're relaxed. I don't know. There's so many weird things about like playing music that, you know, to my knowledge, have never been studied and we kind of know them intrinsically as artists.

but I always like to know the science behind stuff and have the answers to it because I find it just makes life easier for me because I'm one of those kind of analytical people but yeah it's there's shit about playing music that's just so fascinating to me that you can't explain you know like you could never explain to someone what it's like playing a show

and having a really great crowd because that feeling just doesn't exist in any other way Even with like drugs and stuff, it doesn't exist. You cannot explain it. Do you know what's weird about that? It's like emotion. I can't remember. I think Germany has a word for it.

Of course I do. They have a word for everything. Emotions that you can't explain. Fuck. I wish I knew the word. I would sound so clever, but I don't. I know that it's there and it's German. But like, I had the weirdest one the other day.

this is like being on stage is definitely one of them you can't explain the emotion it's like 10 different types of especially if you're playing a song that means something to you oh it's 10 different types of emotion at fucking once yeah um but i had like a fucking i had a dream about my old dog the other day and i woke up and it was the strangest sensation because it was like sadness at the same time as like I felt like I'd seen like an old friend at the same time as like angry situation. It was like I had fucking just mainline all emotions at exactly the same fucking time. It was the strangest shit ever. Oh, that sucks, man.

Playing music's like that, though. It is. Dude, it brings me to tears sometimes. Like, when I've gone through a really rough patch and I play an incredible show and you can see how much the songs mean. to people in the crowd and you just get that feeling it brings me to tears i don't know how marcus gets through it i really don't that fucking your latest shit as well is like yeah really really deeply personal shit he's the most fucking resilient guy i've ever met in my life he just he rolls it to punches like better than anyone i know came into his own as well yeah

Yeah, he's transformed, man. Like, as a person, you know, like he, um, I find him just so inspirational because he, like, I remember, like, especially when we were writing alien, he would tell me these stories of all this fucked up shit that's happened to him, right? And still happening today. And, you know, I don't really want to go into it because it's his shit. shit to talk about. Yeah.

It's not my place. But just the resilience that he has to, you know, want to make the world a better place and share his story through art with like a message of hope underlying instead of playing the fucking victim, you know. And I don't mean to speak in terms of relativity because, you know, especially with trauma, it's relative to the experience. But I know a lot of people that have been through a lot less shit than him that just fucking bitch and moan about it all day.

And it's the only barrier in their life that's holding them back. And yet he just lets it roll off his back like it's water. You know, I just, yeah. Respect. Yeah. Respect, Mark. Yeah. That's, maybe I'll get him on the podcast if you want.

wants to fucking talk about it. I don't know. If I can see it, I wouldn't. He like,

yeah, lyrically, your last two records are like fucking hard to listen to sometimes. Yeah.

Not like in a bad, in a bad way. It was, yeah. It's funny because, like, when he joined the band,

I was writing lyrics, which, I still think it's terrible. Because he just wasn't ready. And then he transitioned into doing it. But when we did Alien, the way it worked, like he had all these things that he wanted to talk about and he couldn't, like at that stage,

he wasn't really able to process at all and make anything out of it. And he said to me like, oh, I don't even know if I like, you know, wrote about these things. things people would even care. And I was like, dude, they will. Trust me. And he would like tell me something that's happened and I would write notes of this story,

right? Write it out and then, you know, try and pull a meaning out of that or just something that he learned from it. And then we would kind of build the song around that. And now he's at the point where he's doing it himself. And I'm just, you know, like we said earlier, staying out of his. shit and if he wants to bounce something off me you can or i make a suggestion sure but i just let him run with it and it's like taken a long time for him to get there but you know the way he's doing it now

is just effortless like the shit he's writing for the album we're working on right now i fucking love it um and i think he's got the hardest stuff out of the way but yeah it's really cool to see because he copped it when he joined the band man like that was fucking hard for him he's always going though everyone yeah everyone always cops it I mean, North Flame was maybe worse than most with people being fucking annoyed. So you get the people who are like, they genuinely preferred the old singer. And then you get the people that just, I feel like they just want to say they did. And they didn't really like it at the time.

Why do both of them even need to fucking tell the world that? That's the other point. That's the biggest problem. Just keep in your fucking head. This is the biggest problem with social media. look, people are gone into this shit heaps. I don't want to dwell on it, but it gives everyone an equal platform

that they shouldn't fucking have. And, you know, when it comes to people that are well known, like artists, you know, it's just, they speak to you like you're not a person. Because, you know, they're not... They're not...

talking shit to your face, people don't do that. But when they're behind a fucking screen and they know that they're probably never going to run into you face to face, they'll say whatever they want and they dehumanize you because you're an artist. You're not a friend. Social media is really fucked up in some ways. Do you reckon it's going to ruin humanity? Like I don't I don't want to think what this is a rabbit hole because like it kind of I mean look at what Facebook did to the way news got shared in Australia we had all of our news sites pulled from Facebook because they refused to pay for sharing journal journalistic articles.

It's it's back online now but yeah there's like you know echo chambers. of what you think and, you know, news sources. But the echo chambers are so big now. Like conspiracy theory shit is millions of people. So of course they fucking think they're right. Yeah. I, man.

And then that's before you even get into like the inherent rudeness that people have now. Like how long until that is in daily life? Like just walking up to someone going, hey, your shoes suck. yeah but i reckon that's the way shit used to be but you reckon people just get fucking slapped yeah but we don't say that shit because we've been punched in the face before but that's what i mean there's no surely there's going to be a little crossover moment where people like kids assume the way that people talk on the internet is how they should talk in real life or you reckon the punching will still happen and therefore it will self-limit i reckon um

I think so. I guess like the same problem with conspiracy theories is kind of related to what you're talking about because everyone is an equal platform where they really fucking shouldn't. If you don't know shit about something, people shouldn't have the opportunity to listen to your opinion on it. I think it's probably a really like controversial thing for me to say, but I just think it's fucking ridiculous. Like, you couldn't. Like, you couldn't. Like, know your lane and stay in your fucking lane.

Yeah. I ain't leaving a comment on fucking NASA video going, I ought to made that rocket different. Well, that's the thing. Like, if, if you, you know, you're not going to submit a fucking white paper on rocket technology to NASA. Because I watched a YouTube video. Exactly.

That fucking Disney is making our rockets. Disney is feminizing our rockets. The worst part is, though, there's no. trust there because news sources are corrupt and you know it kind of fuels itself because people don't trust the government they don't trust the news there's vested interests everywhere and that's why this shit's so rife in the first place social media is just kind of given it a vehicle to take off but you know i i get why it happens just some of the shit is just insane you know the craziest one that I've come across is this guy called Pete Evans who's a celebrity chef from

Australia who's just gone off the fucking deep end he was selling like 30,000 dollar UV lamps that apparently would like fuel your brain and shit the griff that has an item is my favorite because it's to me it's just so obvious they're just trying to sell something like yeah you can maybe have an incorrect opinion about something because you've been misled but then to go, well, it's like the fucking Mormons all over again. I've been told that this UV light will destroy all negative energies. Okay, who told you this? Yeah.

What is negative energy? People fucking buy it. People fucking buy it. It's psycho. Speaking of that. Speaking of that, but like, still on topic, are you a biohacker? Are there any biohacking going on?

A man that trains? Because that dips into the realm of, of like some of it is complete fucking horseshit but some of it is absolutely fucking beneficial no there's a real thin line there i think uh kind of works hand in hand with my well i'm not going to say fascination but i want to know the facts behind everything why you do it why it works um i use so much shit like there's so much tech i thought i could i can see i could see in you that you got a lit you got the subs you got supplements there's so much technology in sport no it's like beyond that so nutrition is one side of it um the best thing that i've

come across i don't even know if it's biohacking but i use this thing called a whoop which is like a fitness tracker i guess but it tracks my sleep tracks my you know how well recovered i am and how oh i've seen the one and it's like gives you a percentage of recovery. Yeah, and that's taught me a lot of stuff about recovery. Um, it's taught me how harmful drinking alcohol is, for example, for recovery. If I have more than a glass of wine and I have it right before bed, my recovery would be dog shit. Like, so the other day, I got pissed up in the spa on red wine, went to bed, got eight hours to sleep and my recovery was like 13. percent and I didn't even fucking do anything that day.

So what? Because it tracks your sleep? Yeah, but if you drink alcohol like that, the effect it has on your cardiovascular system is pretty significant. I feel that if I'm on over, like walking is difficult. Yeah, so what it, pretty much your body has to work really hard and you don't rest properly because your body's processing it. so you wake up and you're still fucked yeah and then that day i ran like 12 13 k's of hills and then did a wait session um so like a decent training day not a massive one but not a small one had a really good sleep last night did everything right as far as recovery goes this morning

i was like 87% recovered so yeah it's taught me stuff like that that I find it really helpful. There's a few supplements I use, but it's not for the same goals that you would have. It's just like, you know, I have like a certain electrolyte drink that I like. Or, you know, if I know that I'm, like right now I'm doing a strength block, I'll eat more protein in my diet, but I'll have it in a way where I'll go out and train and then I'll make like a smoothie. but it'll have protein in it

and the reason I'll do that is to give myself an insulin spike from the fruit but there'll be like a banana in there with magnesium to stop me from getting sore and it's just all little tricks like that you learn over time that all sounds like shit I do

I had a fucking point I had a point with this and I fucking forgot what it was about the fucking biohacking I can't fucking I can't remember something about fucking... Oh no, shit.

What I was going to say was I have legitimate sleep anxiety. So I tried to use one of those fucking sleep apps. And it was like, I have insomnia at the best of times. It scaled it up to five fucking billion because I would go to sleep. I would wake up. The app would say I've only had 2% of a rest of deep sleep.

Yeah. And I would fucking freak out. So Whop is different because it's a track. that stays on your wrist all the time. So it's not your phone guessing. It's like, it was a, it was a,

it was a fucking Apple Watch app. And you like, keep it on when you're sleeping. That, it was fucking horrible. It's not the same. It's not the same. I,

I've done that. I, when I first started training again, I used Apple Watch. And it wasn't, wasn't anything like this. Because what I would, I think I naturally move around in my sleep.

So I would, I would wake up. and I would think that I've had a good night's sleep. I'd look at the fucking clock thing and it would say you only had 18 minutes of deep sleep and then I would freak out about it for the rest of the day instead of just thinking

I feel pretty fucking good. Yeah. Yeah, I mean when it comes to that I think feel over everything is important. You know, a lot of like people that are involved in cycling kind of fall into this sort of problem where they're focusing on metrics instead of feel.

Exactly. that's me. They'll be looking at their power meter and going, I can only put this power out for this amount of time instead of this is what I feel like I can do today. But, you know, I've found a few tricks work with sleeping for me because I'm an insomniac as well.

Like when I was younger, I was to stay up all night and shit. On one of those people. Have you got anything more than the fucking screens? Don't give me the fucking screen bullshit. Don't give me the fucking blue light bullshit. Give me a fucking nugget. I have to read for about 15 minutes before I go to sleep

Not on a phone like an actual book I don't have one here Yeah this is kind of delving into that but the best thing that I found is like liquid melatonin tinctures I fuck heavily with melatonin It's like micro dose it and it's fucking beautiful for sleep Yeah and you got me this stuff that's like you put it under your tongue and it just helps me fall asleep but i have to clear my mind out and like training in the morning kind of sets me up to end up at that place when i go to sleep because by the time i go

to sleep i'm so fucking drained if i don't exercise i can't sleep at all like i'll be up until 3 a.m you know i feel like i haven't achieved even on the like there's a you know a body level but also mentally, if I haven't exerted that day, I feel incomplete. I feel like I almost don't deserve the sleep. You don't deserve this. You didn't fucking do anything. You should still be fucking worse. I'm a fucking lunatic.

And when I talk about it out loud, I'm like, I'm fucking mental. I feel exactly the same way. I feel dissatisfied. And I'm like, why do you have this nice fucking bike if you don't ride it, prick? You fucking wanker. You shouldn't be sleeping. Right. tomorrow we're fucking going nuts i'm actually i didn't didn't work out yesterday but i got drunk

i'm trying basically 2021 i'm trying to drink less because 2020 i drank and other stuff the most out of any year of my fucking life i reckon i took most i reckon i've taken 10 years off my life in the last year so this year i'm like i'm going to try and lose my little belly that I've got. So I'm drinking like, I'll drink one beer a day. Sometimes not that. But then on Sunday I actually got really pissed. Nice.

Slept like shit though, that night. And then last night I went to bed really early because of it. But because I went to bed really early, I woke up really early. I text you at fucking 6.30 a.m. I'm awake if you want to do this. That's crazy. You know what I found was really helpful for me to cut down drinking? Alcohol-free beers.

They're so sick, aren't they? I crave beers, right? I have one of those, and it, like, scratches the itch for me, but I'm not really drinking alcohol, and then I'm, like, I'm stoked because I got what I wanted, but none of the negative effects of it. I still have a wine on the weekends sometimes. Like, I got pissed the night we got here because we got a bit carried away. Yeah, I used to drink a fair bit, and now alcoholics.

free beer in the week and maybe a wine or two on the weekend. Have you got a favorite alcohol free beer? There's a couple. I'd only say this because I go, I actively look for new ones. Yeah, I don't know if they'll be available to you. There was one called, I think it's called a Quiet XBA. Australia's got it. I can't remember who makes them.

Man, the best scene for all that shit is Germany. I remember when I first started going there I was like, why the fuck do they have alcohol-free beer in a pub? Now that I'm older and less fucking stupid and up my own ass, I'll have one of those. I realize that I think that's a really great thing because there's been times where I've gone out to bars

where I didn't necessarily want to drink but I wanted to catch up with friends and you still want to have a beer. So, you know, they should have that everywhere. I can't remember what it's called. The culture's fucked. You know, alcohol drinking culture especially in Australia.

The UK is pretty bad too. It's just fucking terrible. Australia and the UK are fucking just as bad as each other. You want to go to the fucking pub cat? Yeah, seriously. Could pint though. Yeah.

I know I. All right. The minute, the minute he's that it's fucking 9 a.m. Good point. I've got, what have I got to say? How long have we been doing this?

I don't. This is the most unprofessional podcast with 40,000 monthly listeners in the world, probably, I reckon. Which is my favourite thing about it. I've got to ask you your top five bands at some point. I don't even know. This could be 40 minutes. This could be fucking hour and a half. My top five bands?

Yeah. Let's just do it now. Number one. Listen, no one ever. No one ever doesn't complain. You've literally just come straight in with like, yeah, let's go. Fuck with it. Um, number one, Slayer.

He's wearing the t-shirt. He's not wearing the t-sure. I made it up. All right. Let's deep dive on some Slayer then. All right. Give me your fucking favorite Slayer album? Probably, I mean,

rain in blood, definitely, but I've overplayed it. Yeah. Show no mercy. I love. I love seasons. I love Heliwates. I really like the shit kind of before the early 90s,

but the best Slayer album is Decode of Aggression, the live album. That is fucking incredible because the recordings are kind of shit on their first few records, for better or worse, like it's the sound, but Slayer is a band that you have to experience live. to really understand it. And I didn't... And I didn't get it... Yeah, now you can't.

I didn't get it until I listened to that live album and I was just like, holy fuck, this is psycho. It is so... I have that album on tape. No shit. On double tape cassette. I also have a first pressing of Show No Mercy. I only realized this the other day, right?

On vinyl. And side two, I think. just says side 66 and a half. It's side 1 and side 66 and a half. Nice. That's sick. It's fucking sick. Well, that's, right, where do you stand on God hates us all? I think it's great.

I fucking love it. Yeah. Like, proper fucking American meathead fucking Slayer fans. Sorry, if you're one of them, but fuck off. You're not listening to an All Flame podcast, so you shouldn't be here. Like, some people hate it. Disciple is one of my favorite Slater songs. It's one of the best songs ever written in metal.

Yeah. Dude, that was so hard when it came out. Like, even the lyrics, man, fuck me. Like, so direct straight to the point. Like, I loved it. It really spoke to me. That album's got, uh, came out on the fucking September 11th, didn't it? 2001.

Mm. I was young and impressionable. And, and, like, around the, that time, the other shit that was coming out that my friends were like showing me was like Lincoln Park and, you know, Limp Biscuit was kind of blowing up then and I kind of like, I delved into Slipknot, but then I heard that and I was like, this is on another fucking level. Like I would say on the same level as a record like Iowa. And Slipknot is in my top five.

but yeah no man I don't think the thing is with Slayer like when you're in a band that long you release that many albums you're going to have ups and downs

like it's inevitable but to their credit as a live band they were always as good as ever you know I've never I've seen them unbelievable every time I saw them live

it's like a fucking fuse just breaks in my brain and I turn into a caveman. Yeah. And it's just the sickest shit ever. But like I thought one of their best songs they ever wrote was repentless. And that's like, you know, very late in their career. So yeah, I don't know why you'd ever talk shit on them. They're the greatest metal band at one time.

I feel like they fucking, I feel like they got out at the right time. like the climate is not slayer friendly right now even to the point right fuck i was listening to uh rain in blood at the gym the other day so i've got my studio i've got a squat rack so i say the gym but it was i just put my son-ass on fucking max just just fucking workout in there but i was listening to angel of death and then like it's really loud and there's obviously other people in other rooms that can hear me and The fucking lyric is to benefit the Aryan race.

And I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, but they wrote. I know they're writing. I know it's written in, you know, it's like a horror film. It's written like a fucking script. That was about gerbils. Imagine walking parts. It's about, um, Mendys, the guy that did the experiments in that fucking horrible

shit. Um, but like, obviously I'm not fucking, there's no, I'm not trying, fucking cancel Slayer. It's like, are you going to cancel every film about the fucking Holocaust?

Like, no. But I just thought if someone walked past like someone, because there's like indie bands that practice there that has no knowledge of Slayer but it's not like,

oh there's a fucking skinhead in here. Yeah, it's not like incoherent so they can hear the words and then he says that and then I walk out with like a fuck, I mean,

I've got an eagle tattooed on the back of my head. Like what the fuck are people going to think. Oh my God. Yeah, maybe it's for the fucking headphones. Anyway, number two.

Tall. Who you got? Yeah. Fear anoculum. Love it. Come on. Do it? Love it.

Love it. Where does it sit in your tool discography, though? Last. Third. Third. Yeah. Each their own. Go on.

Wait, on. Well, give me your fucking tool top five then. Top five. Well, as in like, give me your order for tall albums. If fear are not killing them's third? 10,000 days is my favorite. Yeah. And the second would be the holy gift, which is, um, do you know about that?

It's like the three fucking songs at the same fucking bullshit backwards at the same time, playing. Whatever it is, it's the way that lateralis should be or something, isn't it? Yeah. it's like that they so fucking psycho that they wrote Lateralis in a way that had clues in it so you could rearrange the album

or is it some fucking boring fucking kid you could go listen to it on YouTube sick and it works perfectly yeah but is it ever been said that it was them or is it something

because I feel like they've got so much weird shit you could just be like well actually if you overlay this on top of this it does sound okay because one of the tracks is just br- Yeah, but that Him squeezing his cat

It's like track three on Later Alice Just main ice squeezing his cat Half of their albums are just shit like that Like they have records I know, that's what I mean A few bangers And then, no, it's They used like the Fibonacci sequence to do it

Yeah Do they actually though Or do they just fucking I'm looking it up right now Proof that the Holy Gift is real Tool band Reddit I think it's legit Reddit

Oh so it must be real After everything we've said I'm looking it up now on Reddit So I mean I could come out If someone came out and said Oh Craig deliberately made all of the drums on Internal Atomics so if you played them backwards They made this

I would probably go Yeah I did do that I'm clever So Yeah I No 10,000 days is my favourite album I know it's not everyone's favorite but I just really love the songs on it

I mean it's fucking sick yeah and the production's great so I would go that number one I feel like the production's the best yeah that lateralist you know I think yeah it is Enema is probably number three

yeah of course it is and then fear inoculum yeah that's fine that's what I wanted that's what I knew And then the rest. Do you not like undertow? I do, but I don't love it like the other records. I love it.

I feel like undertow is before 10,000 days for me. Yeah, it's just a bit raw for me. But I didn't start listening to Tool when it came out. Like, I started listening to Tool when 10,000 days came out. So, you know, like some people when they get into a band, later on in the career, they might not always appreciate the earlier work the same way you know i feel like the the the first what's that five undertow and i'm a letter alice 10,000 days the first four i feel are all 10 out of tens

and then fear inoculums an eight that's how i feel and when it takes 13 fucking years to give me an I'm a little bit fucking pissed off I had a tweet yesterday go re-viral for some reason because some meme page re-shared it and it's from fucking over a year ago where I think I just tweeted saying I learned guitar last year in lockdown

amidst all of the fucking drinking I learned a bit of guitar and I was like I'm not being funny guys I just fucked around in drop D for an hour there is no way Fear of Oculum took 13 years to write Oh God Oh, don't be, oh, you're going to be so fucking.

No, they definitely just fucked around. We might get the tool. We might get the tool tour, so I'm going to be really fucking diplomatic. No, they got so much money that they probably just didn't give a shit until they really had to record it. And I mean, Maynard's got his other shit going on, you know, so. Yeah, I feel bad for fun. I'm not slagging it at all. I mean, I am, I'm not.

The songs grew on me. The songs are fucking great. Yeah. I didn't love it at first, but then over time I've come to love it. But I think with Toll, like, you need to listen to those songs again and again and again to, like, deconstruct them and appreciate them. And maybe a lot of people just haven't done that yet with this record. I feel like I haven't done that yet.

Yeah. I feel like maybe I'll go back. Because I remember the fucking. the Pneuma, whatever it's called. Numa, Numa, with a P at the beginning. Numa with the P at the beginning. I mean, that was fucking classic tool for me.

But also, like, I feel like the mix wasn't as good. No, it definitely wasn't. I hate to be that guy, because I've just been talking about those guys. But I have the fucking platform. I can say what I fucking want. When you AB it to 10,000 days, it's definitely not as dense.

It's the same fucking guy, though. Yeah. I mean... I like, like, it's obviously completely unedited as well, which I think all of them are. But it just feels a little bit rorer. Yeah, I thought that too. Anyway.

Anyway, I don't know about the rest of my fucking... We'll never tool at all. No way. That'd be a good tour. Would be. A great tour. No one to give a fuck about us. Yeah, they would.

You got all the fucking space, fuck. Fucking bollocks. By space bollocks, I mean, you know, the artwork shit. Yeah, you're a well good tour. I don't know how to fully rattle off the rest of my top five because there's a lot of bands that I really love. So I'm just going to give you a few others. Yeah, go. I love Pink Floyd.

Give me, what's your favorite Pink Floyd album? Animals. Is it? Yeah. What's your... Give me your top three, Pink Floyd, then? Pink Floyd's songs. No, albums.

Animals, Dark Side of the Moon, wish you were here. Okay, good, that's fine. If you put the wall in there in your top three, I just fucking hate Roger Waters. I can't fucking stand him.

Other bands... I'm just talking shit on everyone. don't really give a fuck oh no straight in the bar I was never going to support pink Floyd fuck I fucking love limp biscuit I was gonna say that

when you said that about limp biscuit and slay I swear he likes limp biscuit I love limp biscuit like top five love probably but I think I got more than five bands in my top five

I mean yeah that's fine the thing with limp biscuit Fred Dirst just dates it exactly to the time. Do you know what I mean? It's not like... It was a special time though. It was a special time and yeah we are coming back around on like that being 20 years ago

and the nostalgia thing. But musically it's fucking incredible. Yeah, it's so sick. It's so sick. So, fucking bouncy. All right, what else have we got? But like, if only we can fly So sick

Is it? I love the red hot chili peppers Oh, what the fuck? We're going to have to end this And you know who else loves the red hot chili peppers? Tom Williams John Dealey loves the red hot chili peppers Really?

Yeah And we like love them, love them. Absolutely love them. Hapadabadoo. I love my sugar, obviously. That took a while. Yeah.

Chili peppers before my sugar? I told you this wasn't in order, mate. Nah, but the first two more. It is kind of. On a subconscious level, you've put limp biscuit in red hot chili peppers above my sugar. which is fine. I love, did I mention slipnot?

I did. You did, yeah. I want to go more on the red hot chili peppers though. What's your favorite shit? What's your favorite? I tell you what I think I hate red hot or chili peppers and why I hate the food fires. And I don't hate either band, right? But being a drum teacher for 10 years with tattoos.

You've had to teach people their songs? It's not even the teaching, right? That's fine. I love that because I, you know, I got into chili. purposes and shit like that when I was a kid. It's, which means I must like it,

but, and food fires, but it's when the parents, like, are so, it's just kind of cute, but they're like, kind,

so desperate to show you that they like rock. Oh, because I've got tattoos. And it's 10 years, 10 years of like, yeah, we like everything, really, you know,

we're into like the heavy stuff, like the, Like the foos, the heavy stuff like the foos, the chilies. And all that did, right, over 10 years is just chip away. That word chipped into my brain, foos and chilies. I never had the patience for teaching. I loved it. It was a means to an end at the time, but then I grew to fucking absolutely love it.

Nick does it. He loves it. I don't do it anymore. It did burn me out. What else have we got? I told you Sleep Night I mean we're at

like band nine of your top five So I fucking love Behemoth Absolutely love behemoth Fuck yeah What's your favorite behemoth album Uh The Satanist Evangelion's great

Yeah I thought that's what you were gonna go for Because of the production Evangelion I feel like is my favourite Yeah but here's the thing Evangelians like I guess you'd call it blackened death metal black and death metal I think when they did the Satanist it's just way more interesting and unique in terms of Isn't it sick?

Isn't it sick that they did the opposite of every other black metal band ever that gets big where black metal bands like Dimmie Borgia and stuff got higher production less black metaly and then behemoth went from super black metal to pretty, pretty death metal. And then they just went, okay, here's a fucking satanic black metal album, man. It's my biggest album. Man, it's the most incredible thing to me about that album is the story behind it.

Like, the songs are phenomenal. And I think they're just one of the most creative metal bands in the world. And I think Nurgles are fucking genius. But he, um... He is a genius. He loves to fucking test stuff as well, which I kind of love. He, like, you know, he almost died from cancer. And then people told him that he was going to die.

And obviously, like, he's a public figure in Poland, and he's always budding heads with the church there. So there was shit around that. And then he lived and then wrote that album about, you know, it's just, I think it's just so special. I think it's incredible. Yeah. It's fucking sick.

Guys are fucking legend. Yeah. I also think, you know, I think it's a, this is a complete fucking, uh, what's the word? Like, fork in the road,

just sort of twist on it. But him and the guy, I can't remember his fucking name, the guitarist from Dark Funeral, right? When everyone was putting the BLM squares in their profiles, right? Um,

you know, talking about Echo Chamber, most of my friends posted it, and obviously I would expect them to, or either say something about it or whatever, because I know that they're not fucking secretly racist. But when people who are prominent in black metal shared it, it actually meant a lot. I think they were the most meaningful BLM black squares

in the music community from people that in my head, I often thought, I wonder if they're secretly a massive racist. And they lost fans. Yeah. Black metal's really, like I went to Inferno Festival once a few years ago in Norway. Yeah, fuck me. That is pretty black metal.

Yeah, sick. Sick. So fucking sick. Who headlined? There was one night, Dimmu, one night, Opass. Opas are in this. list as well. Yeah, fuck yeah.

They're all time for me. Yeah, same. Maybe even my favorite. Probably listen to them more than any other band. I'm a seasonal OPEF listener. The first reign of September to about March. I just listened. Literally, I just listened to OPEF.

Yeah. Well, my partner loves OPEF too, Angie, and we, yeah, we always. have them playing. I just think they're incredible. But there was them. I guess the other standouts, Ragnarok were incredible. I was so fucking drunk the whole time.

I'm trying to think who else I saw. But anyway, I guess like my point is that NSBM is still rife. It's fucking massive. Fucking huge. There's, because I was a foreigner speaking English with my friend, you know, we got staunched a bit and there's people walking around with like openly racist patches on their jackets and shit, they've Nazi symbolism and, you know, all kinds of

other things that are associated with NSBM and even, you know, because I follow a lot of these bands if they do something that that crowd doesn't like like they let it be known and it's fucking crazy to see people write shit like that on the internet in this day and age yeah like it is just it's so fucking insane and i love that's why i love the genre but there's it's just such a fucking minefield because there's so much of that shit in it you just put oh i found this new black metal band you put it into google and then you put racist next to it and the photo comes up and it's like oh for fuck sake

but that's why I think it was so important that prominent black metal figures like whether or not like the whole discussion of is was it you know should post in a black square on your Instagram you know that's not the same

as taking to the streets or whatever that's the moot fucking point the fact that some people whose fan base is actively racist, like, posted that and lost, I would say hundreds to thousands of fans, is fucking sick.

Like when Nurgle posted it, like I know he loves to just be fucking, like rub people up the wrong way on purpose. And I love it because I relate to that because I fucking do it as well. But like him posting that was just like, just sick. And the guy from fucking Dark Funeral as well,

I think he got it worse than Nurgle because Nurgle was like, mainstream people like Nergel, but I'm sure there's a lot of fucking racist scumbags that listen to Dark Funeral, and then maybe people just pop that, pop that up. It was so fucking sick.

Very sick. Anyway, anyway, I need to eat, man. There's one other band. Go on. Um, I love idols. I have never heard them, right? And the only thing I know about them is that they ship out of the same merch

company allotment as the downbeat and if i release anything at the same time as idols my shit gets delayed because they send so much fucking merch out so i hate them for no reason i think they're great they're yeah what does it sound like i've never heard it it's it's punk but it's like really accessible punk but i mean like punk punk not pop punk um and like really great message in their music really brings people together um yeah very sick so actually not not fucking waitrose uh fucking john lewis BBC Radio six punk but none of those words mean anything to you all of those words is like um any middle middle upper class UK supermarket it. No, it's abrasive.

Like, yeah, I think they're awesome and they're blowing up. So I really like their album. They have an album called Joy as an Active Resistance that a friend of mine got me into. That's a cool fucking title. Yeah, and the shit that they sing about is like very current in our political climate, especially if you sit on the left, like everyone in the music industry does. and I just found it very relatable to listen to. Except black metal.

Yeah, except black metal. Anyway, that's it for me. Yeah. I'm going to check it out. Do we have anything that I was supposed... Is it? My mate's reading Rob Halford's autobiography at the moment and said that I should definitely read it.

Apparently it's fucking sick. Great fan. Yeah. All right. Have you got anything that I should have fucking talked about? No. Professional podcast, those? Have you got anything that I should have spoke about?

I was going to talk about Tom Williams and the Drop Bears, but it's a long story, so I'm going to have to save it for another time. I mean, yeah, we can just do this again. All right. Sounds good. Yeah. Thanks, mate. Send me a file, and I'll figure out slapping this up somewhere.

Sounds good to me, Craig. Good to chat here. You're a fucking legend. Yeah, nice one. That was sick. Take it. I love you. Take easy.

Bye. Bye.