The Downbeat - Manuel Gagneux - Zeal + Ardor

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

My guest on the podcast this week is Manuel Gagneux, mastermind behind Swiss avant-garde black metal band Zeal & Ardor. Z+A mix the style of European Black Metal (a genre notorious for it's link with racism) and elements of African-American Spirituals and Gospel and lyrically poses the question: What if the freed slaves had embraced Satan? We talked about the band's unlikely beginnings on the darkest parts of the internet, black magick, reappropriating Richard Wagner and as ever: Manuel's dream festival.

I know what you're thinking. Where did you come from? Where did you go? Where did you come from? Where did you go? Cotton-eyed, Craig. I've been away. I've been busy. I haven't actually been away. I've been here. If you're watching the video version of this, thanks very much. A lot of efforts gone into it. You'll see there's a lovely new exposed brick wall behind me like all good podcasts have. I've basically figured out you need that. To be a successful podcast, there needs to be bricks. Not sure what happens. there to necessitate success, but something to do with the bricks. So that's there. So I couldn't really do any podcasting while they were exposing said bricks. But now we're here. The bricks, the power of the bricks are started. The bricks, by the way, paid for technically by the Patreon.

Patreon. Patreon.com forward slash the downbeat. It's just one pound. Just give me a pound, basically, if you like the stuff. There's good news and there's bad news. The good news. I've got five episodes of the podcast. Coming at you now that I can record the intros. The bad news, bad news bricks is that I recorded all five before these bricks. So they will all be brickless for the next five. And then episode six will have bricks. So probably be much more successful.

Although the Architects episode was pretty successful, wasn't it? Thanks to anyone that watched it, listened to it, tuned in because it was live on Twitch. I've got an excellent episode coming up for you. But first, you knew it was coming. And I promised you, I would only do it if you got something out of it as well. But first, a word from our sponsor for this episode of the Downbeat. Displate. Display is a poster company with a difference.

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using the code Downbeat. If you buy three or more, you get 30% off. I get a little bit of kickback from that. You can support the podcast. You can support whatever I do. And your rooms can look cool AF while doing it. My guests on the Downbeat podcast this week is Manuel Gangue of Zeelandada. Zeelandada is a Swiss avant-garde black metal band

combining elements of traditional black metal and African-American spirituals. you've never heard anything like it originally a one-man project like all of the best black metal later becoming a band we talked about the literal black magic in the lyrics we talked about how he started the band on

cesspool website for chan the new album zealandar self-titled is out now we talked about we talked about that the band have just been announced for next year's bloodstock Open Air Festival and you can catch them on tour in Europe. You've missed the UK ones because that's when I did it. But you can catch them on tour in Europe until the 15th of December. It's Zeelandada on the Downbeat Podcast.

Are you comfortable? Yes, very. Does it feel professional? It feels very professional. Even like if I'm this close, it has this NPR vibe. The nice, thank you. That's what I'm going for. I'm just trying to obliterate any podcast competition.

position. You look's fucking dumb. Your voice. Don't look at yourself. Hey. Okay. I mean, I can change it so you can just look at yourself if you want to do the whole thing like that. That's fine.

I'm going to butcher your second name. I really don't want to butcher it. That's fine. It's Ganyu. Ganyu. There you go. Manuel Ganyu. Yeah.

Welcome to the downbeat. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Glasgow. Mm. Last time I saw your band, also in Glasgow, with Meshugger. Yeah. Not that long ago?

No, it was like six months or something. How was that tall? That was good. Yeah, I mean, obviously you get to see Musug every day. That doesn't hurt the deal. Some of the stages were a little bit too crowded. So we had to be in one straight line, including the drums to like the right.

That was kind of fucked. But other than that, it was good. Yeah. Do you find, did you find, like, obviously the ideal? Sounds like I know what I'm doing, by the way. I don't. I just want to talk to you. Did you find the ideal situation with a support tour,

which people don't really understand, like just your average listener of music sometimes doesn't understand the point of a support tour for the 90% of the time is to go and steal some of those fans? Absolutely, yeah. Did you find that a Mushuga tour was good for you? Yes, very much so. Because Musuga have a very devoted fan base,

but they're also kind of open-minded. They like weird stuff. Oh, right. I think that's where we... Yeah. Respectfully, weird. Yeah, yeah. Nice weird.

Have you ever toured with anyone, which was my next point? Have you ever toured with anyone? I don't want this to be really conversation, like interviewy, but like, have you ever toured? Because your music,

Zilanada, is incredibly experimental. I would say within, within metal, and especially metal that sort of, you've flirted with, even if you haven't done it.

by choice, you flirted with the mainstream, with, you know, just with how different, any of the subject matter is, it comes up in, like, mainstream publications or whatever. Have you ever toured with a band, and the fans just haven't got it? That never completely happened. What did happen is we opened on a festival for,

oh, actually, we played after, what was it, like an iconic 80s synth pop band? Wow. Yeah. Who was it? Fuck. Oh, shit. I'm supposed to remember this.

Mel, anything? All right. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Ironic eight you said, oh. Yeah. So we're in France, beautiful.

We get baguettes and the cheeses. Lovely. They come on 10 o'clock. It's like a mid-40s-aged crowd. They love it. They lap it up. Then we hit the stage. And it's like,

you've got full headline, like. amount of people. Like, yeah, yeah. Like, we were the go to bedliner. Yeah. And we played like at quarter past midnight, which is just, you know, sleepy time for these people.

And then we barrage them with like, you know, blast beats. And we vacated the premises. And it looked pathetic because, like, it was 40,000 people and like 1,000 people were still there. But if you have the direct comparison, it looked lamentable. Yeah. Yeah.

That was not great. What was the festival? Um, the pose musical, something, I don't know. So like a real diverse lineup. Yeah, like someone was really proud of their like avant-garde book in there. Yeah, yeah.

There are a lot of those festivals in Europe. We never really get to do them because we get sort of just lumped into metal hardcore festivals. Europe has some like almost deranged lineups where someone just goes, you know what? I'm a weird European mic pattern. Here's my favorite. festival but i mean often than off more often than not it's amazing like we played the best kept secret

in um in the netherlands it was like uh james blake radio ahead oh my god um aurora and us that's fucking cool yeah yeah also they have like money at the wazoo to do that but um it ended up being really cool for us and again we got to see where are you ahead and that's what what uh what year was this i'm I'm like radio heads in my top five. This was like 2018, I want to say. So moon-shaped pool, kind of. Yeah, yeah. It was the festival where the people recorded them tuning their guitars,

and they were like, this is a new song. Oh, yeah. I always used to, like, joke about stuff like that. I want, well, my first tour ever, actually, which I was talking about the other day with someone. Also, this podcast, I don't even know, it just goes off on tangents, but it's... Yeah, that's good.

My first tour ever, there was a... a band. I used to play in just like a punk hard called Krusty bands when I was like 16. And I mean, I still technically do, but like really crusty. We went on tour and a band opened up in Newcastle and they were called, I mean, the name is pretty, the name's pretty out there. The band was called AIDS Wrist. And I was like, okay, well, this is going to be pretty fucking something at the time. And then the guys are just tuning up on stage and then one of them

just goes into the microphone thank you and then he left the stage and I was like that is the funniest thing I've ever fucking seen it was I don't know if it was maybe like one of the promoters

like friends bands or like friends that just did it for a joke but they were the whole time just just tuning up no noise made and then one of them just went really solemnly

thank you and then that's amazing and I was just like it was like a fucking sketch I'll have to that yeah it's a pretty good pretty good sketch so headline tour that's why you're here i've got notes i never check my notes but i'm just going to pull them up they're on my phone they're not real um headline tour yeah for the self-titled yeah yeah one of too many um we did like a bunch of support

stuff then the summer festivals then we did a headline in the u.s which went over well well well except for someone almost dying. And now this one, yeah. You're going to have to elaborate that. Yeah, circle back to that. So someone got really, really sick on tour. COVID tick? COVID plus Legionella.

What's that? Sounds like one of your song titles. Legion's disease. It's a bacterial infection that can go one or two ways. Either you just have a slight fever and it's basically nothing. Or you get like a lung infection. Holy shit. That like eats away at the,

alveola like not not great so um from COVID yeah yeah it was just this one two punch of these two infections and um yeah so this person who was ill and I don't know if I'm free to talk about it because it's you know that person but uh we didn't really did gauge it that badly because he's he's a strong individual and um yeah we just had a little bit of fever so we ended up going to the hospital and they're like, this motherfucker has to stay here. Wow. And every day we weren't sure if he'd actually make it through because he had like 41 Celsius degrees fever.

What's that in America? Because we got that 35, 33% split UK and the US. Yeah, I have no idea. So you live in Switzerland still? Yeah, yeah. You have the most insanely American English accent. I was like, I just assumed in my head that you'd move to America. I can go for a German if you'll have.

Actually, one of my notes involves the German language. Oh, fuck you. Anyway, that was freaky, scary. Dear friend of ours almost died. Yeah, that's that. Who were the supports in the States? It was. Is my brain empty?

No, no, it was Sylvain and Imperial Triumphant. If you want to go on about experimental music, that's an address for you. Is it tough when you're like, again, this is not even in my notes, but is it tough when you're picking supports in the black metal realm to research everything? I mean, it's pretty, by now, kind of have a thing on the pulse of who's sketchy and, you know, what doesn't work.

Also, I know for a fact that certain bands will not want to engage with us. which is fine. It goes both ways. You ever got any, like, real, real shit from another band? No. I think if people don't like us, for whatever reason, they don't interact with us. Where would they?

Yeah. And I think in a way we're over the, I hate this band so much, I'm going to post about it publicly thing. Yeah. And that's good. Do you think in the black metal community, if that,

I mean, I didn't, so I'm like, when I grew up, I love black metal. like emperor dark throne like yeah like real black metal then you sort of find out about all the racism

you're like that kind of sucks so then nowadays I mean I still I still love black metal but like I love all the shit that people the black metal people hate like I love walls in the throne room I love death heaven

I love you guys like I love it and people experimenting or whatever but like when when you see the like the vitriol from other bands in the scene for like anyone that's like how dare they put a fucking clean guitar in there but it's like yeah like what what i don't know because it wasn't there is like did emperor get that because they had like synths like surely they must have been like why is like that okay i think it's it's like this teenage thing. It's like these boys were listening to this music when they were like 14 to 17

and they heavily still identify with it because it's, you know, they're little precious childhood thing. And here come like other bands pissing on it and, you know, from their perspective and it's just kind of hurtful for them. Yeah. And they're super protective of it and they get really pissy. It's weird though as well because they're like, they'll adore the the Bursam albums that have no guitar on it. But it's like the minute you put like a synth or something and other black metal. The elitism is what absolutely kills it for me, which is why I love like.

And it's, it's hypocrisy too, because like black metal started as this like no, no holds bar, just fuck it, do whatever you want extreme. Yeah. And now it's like you have to adhere to so many rules. Yeah. One of which being,

you've got to be at least slightly racist. Yeah. You need a, just for the, just an element in that. Yeah. One of you at a party dressed up is, and is the bare minimum. Yeah.

And you've got to have like a Pepe folder on your desktop. Oh. We need to get into the Pepe stuff because, like, so this podcast is, I guess, mainstream now, number three in the UK charts today. Dang. Which is, congrats. So I, forgive me if some of this is just like digging up what your fucking band name is and like that stuff.

But the flip side of that is that there will probably be maybe 30,000 people listening. or watching that don't know your band. So it's a cell. Okay. So here comes the pitch. Zilinada. Yeah. Started as a one man thing.

Precisely. Like a lot of the call, like again, no, I love a load of those one man black metal bands. They always go and do something, beat their wife up or something. I'm like, for fuck sake. Just make the fucking music. Yeah, that's sad. Started as a one man thing. Now, the story of when you started it, I've heard a million times, but I don't think the listeners

would have heard. Okay. Would you like to regale us with the story? I would love to. That's good. Actually, it started as, as, bird, bird mask?

Bird mask. Yeah, yeah. That was my, my pop project that I still do, but I got kind of frustrated with it. And like, as a distraction,

I would go on 4chan. As a distraction from anything. Yeah. For those who don't know, God bless you. Forchan is, the cesspool of the internet. Fortune was responsible for a bunch of death threats

like a while ago, a bunch of Arban. You got docs there, right? Yeah, that's fairly unfun. But then they didn't do anything. So it was like, motherfucker, you had the easiest assassination in history. There's a list of tiny three to 500 capacity rooms that I'm going to be sat down in.

On the internet, you're just a clean fucking shot. You can get me. No one did it. Anyway, carry on. Four Chinese is a cesspool. Yeah, I would go to set cesspool and ask them to, like, name two musical genres. Like, one poster would say reggae and another say, say, gabber. And I would combine those two in, like, 30 minutes and try to make a song of it.

Just in your bedroom? Yeah, cool. And one day, one said black music, well, in a different tone. And one person said black metal. And I thought, like, if I got butt heard about this, it would be like a huge elephant. for me, but if I made it sound good, that's kind of a bigger fuck you. So that's what I ended up doing. And I like the idea so much because there was also kind of some thematic correlations between the two that I kind of kept at it. And now it's my job. It's so fucking cool. There's a lot to unpack

there. So I'm taking it the way when they said black music, they used 4chan's favorite word. Yeah. Philanthropy. Fuck me. Insane. And then, so had you had any experience, like singing and that style? So, first of, explain what is happening there? Sorry, I'm a professional. Explain the mashup.

What are you, like, so specifically, is a specific... Yeah. So if they said, they said N-word music. And I figured, like, they maybe... meant hip-hop or whatever. And I just kind of reduced it to what I think of, like, historically black American music is.

And that would be like field hollers and, um, early gospel chants. So that's what I kind of took and, uh, combined it with some blasty beats and some, some tremolo picking. And, but so at this point, had you ever sung in that style? Uh, and no. No.

Because you fucking nailed it. It's, it's so easy to like, um, Because I've been doing this exercise at this point for, for that point, for quite a while. So I would like simmer down what the pillar elements are of a genre, and I would just use that as a like simulacra and kind of built on it. And since all the recordings that we know of that era, most of them are made by one guy called Alan Lomax. He did like a huge, like, chronicling of sounds.

And his recording stuff sucked. because it's super old. So it's really easy to emulate that. And once you got that, you're basically almost there. Wow. So am I right in thinking everything? Devlin's fine. Did you record all of that?

Yeah, yeah. And did you mix it? Someone else missed it. Yeah, you mixed it. Yeah, but it's black metal. So it's kind of like, I don't know. Sometimes, because the new one's Will Putney. Yeah.

Will Putney mix. Will Putney is my, number one, my fucking boy. Number two, like, mixes all of our stuff. And, I mean, I think the new one is my favorite one. But I think, like, I don't want to be the kind of, like, because I love shitty mixes. I don't, no offense. But, like, I like, in the night side of clips, like, just,

nah, like, insanity. Yeah. But, like, I think the Putney mix adds to it. Oh, definitely. Because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I mean, it has its charm to it. Because if it's not mixed well, it has this otherworldliness to it, which can get you so far. And the second one was mixed by Kurt Baloo, because everything in our realm is either by

Kirpherlu or Will Putney. Yep. And now I need like, I don't know. No, now you need to get, by your own admission, good enough. And then it's all years. Yes. And it's back to shit. Yeah.

that's the chronicle of it. It's going to be my Lulu. Which is what, fuck me. Jesus Christ, I can talk about that all day. The, which is what I wanted to touch on there is like, devil is fine. The vocal production is incredible. Like, it's really good. You know what it is?

I mean, first of all, it's panning. The second thing is like you can't sing harmonies like you would. Yeah. You always, what I did is like I tried to do different. voices. When he's like, ha, one's like, more kermody. And one's like, Jordan Peterson. Yeah. He wouldn't like it. I think, I don't. Yeah, fuck that guy. Anywho, um, that and the, the, this is so nerdy and it's not going to interest anyone.

No, it is. It's a music podcast. It's going to interest everyone. Trust me. So the preset I used for the vocals is like a snare preset. No way. It's called dirty snare of a off a, like, like an EQ or a compressor? It's a compressor and like a like a saturated distortor thing. Oh, yeah. So it sounds like it's a wax wheel recording and it's kind of old.

And you did that in a bedroom or in a studio, but just you. Just my bedroom. That's fucking so cool. My neighbors must have thought, I don't know. Like you thought you were fucking had slates. Like,

like. Because you think, sing the third harmony. to a fucking good God is a dead one. And like they're probably just trying to try their best to sleep. And they're like, is there three people in there now? I think if you've got the monitors blaring.

Yeah. That's crazy. So when did you invite? Who did the drums on the first one? Oh, a MIDI. Yeah. All the best one man blackmail. Because I didn't know.

There's a level to drum production where it's like, there's a sweet spot in the middle where it's like, well, this is neither so good or so bad that I don't know if it's real. Whereas at the end, there is, okay, this is really, really fake. I know it's fake. And at the beginning, there is like, well, this has to be real. And I feel like you're somewhere in the middle of the start and the middle of the whole spectrum that I've just fucking butchered my analogy.

But like, you know what you mean? It's like, like the Leviathan records, they're, just, just be normal, bro. The Leviathan records are like, I can't even remember if it's real or fake. Like, yeah, because it's like shitty, but real. Yeah. Shitty by choice, I love that. Yeah, it's all midi and because it's so distinctly mixed. Yeah.

Not to say shitty. That's nice. Right. You can't really tell. And it's not important because it adds to the, wait, is it? Is it not? Is it more than one person? And it adds to that mystique, which I totally ruined by being on a fucking podcast.

I was going to say, yeah. Well, now, you've ruined it a while ago. But was there anything in you that wanted to do it like Death Spell Omega? Like, I want to be secret. I totally did, yes. Did you already do it? Well, I wanted to be as anonymous as possible. And I think first, it was Kim Kelly who wrote for Noisy back in the day.

Yeah. She said, like this, this Manuel Gagnu, and she's fucking doing this. And like, okay, cats out of the bag. Next. Grim, Grim Kim. Grim Kim, Docks Jew. Yeah. Motherfucker.

Yeah. I follow her on Twitter. No, she's amazing. Yeah. And then the next week, like the Rolling Stone online thing wrote about it and like, yeah, okay. Do you regret it or? No, not at all because it would involve so much like cringy mystique, forced shit. Like I like being straight and I like being transparent.

Yeah, it's not about my sexuality. And it's the same with like social media and, you know, you know, being on Twitch and whatever. If you have a persona, you have to maintain that and that is exhausting as fuck. So I kind of do as well. I kind of put on like a little bit of a fake me Well, of course I mean you're aware that you're being recorded And you're never going to be the same

Unless you're fucking social part Yeah, well Yeah, borderline We'll get there Some of the, some of the ego comes out Um Where was I going with that? I don't know, so this is not the thing

We're still on conception of the band Inception of the band So then What did you do for shows back then? I didn't do shows. I just put it up on band camp. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it just kind of worked

and I could pay my bills for like a month and it was amazing. Two demos and then Devil is fine? One demo that is scrubbed off the internet and you cannot find unless you Google it. I mean, if you just told everyone to Google it. Why did you scrub it off? Because it was even worse than the first one.

Sound wise or just? Just, yeah, all over the board. I mean, there was one good song I like on it. The rest is like, you know how I always have like intramettos? Like there's like synth shit. It was a lot of that. Oh, so you did a bursum. You did a bursum.

You did a bursom. So I'm going to ask you this because I don't think I've seen. I don't really go and look at too many other interviews when I do this because I just think it seems fake. Are you or have you made a trilogy? No. So there's, there's more, because there's like themes in all three. Yeah. I mean, there is like an overarching thing.

Here's how I want to describe it. And I know you'll get it because I have done some research. It's kind of like a man in the high castle, alternate reality situation. Like when I, when I delve deep into the lyrics, other than like the really cool fucking Satan shit which we'll get onto like there's a fucking story there yeah now I feel like it was

kind of ending in the new one I'm not going to check my notes and reference fucking lyrics but do you have like a plan is there a plan for more there is but I mean it's such in a it's in a conceptual phase that I can't really oh I don't want you to elaborate I just want to know for my own ego am I right

and my right is going somewhere. So it's like an alternate history thing where African-American slaves, instead of, you know, being Christians, like their oppressors wanted them to be, they would actually turn to Satan. It's the coolest fucking idea for not only a band, but anything I'd ever heard.

Yeah, I'm kind of in the process of making a graphic novel. I was about to just fucking say, like, you need to do either a comic or a series or something. Yeah. I just really want Netflix to pick it up and just give me money for that. Do you know who would fucking love it?

Jordan Peel. Yeah. Just you two, right in a fucking banger. Kissing, making out. Making a fucking banger. Because there is like, he likes that shit. You can tell because he did Lovecraft County, which I love.

do you mean candy man which was nice candy man but like he's he's got a foot yeah he likes horror but he's got like a foot in the like creepy fucking occult style shit yeah which obviously you also have and i'm i don't know i'm like i'm sure so this is like me just fucking going off a million tangents at once so there's like actual like incantation style stuff from the lesser kea solomon yeah across all of your work right yeah yeah okay so the way i look at it other than you know actually being from the less keith's on is like it has like a lovecraft vibe in that like it always comes back to like fuck there's one specific i'm gonna butcher it there's like a specific um

I think it's like a crowly Latin that's like show yourself to us and I'm gonna butcher it but it's in like I swear it's on almost every album it's just put in it's like and when it comes up

because I love again fucking just don't be racist I love HP Lovecraft other than the name of his fucking cat and all the other shit that's in there but yeah there's like the old one the deep one yeah

vibes to it yeah and it comes up and every time it comes up in a song I'm like yeah he did it again yeah you didn't say that yeah because it reminds me of like Cthulhu shit

like the mythos and the inevitable how we cannot avoid it yeah that was a hard word to say no you got it you nailed it yeah also there's stuff from

the greenware of Abramilin in there also yeah there's there's there's a lot fun bits on the new yeah on the fuck what's the song sorry like literally the worst person in the world with song names album names oh me too I have people names too feed the machine oh yeah so feed the machines

the song on this record that has the most has has the chant but then you you list some jukes of hell you list some earls of hell like filler you know just got to get them in there is it actually filler or you like do you have like a I mean you obviously have an occult interest because they're real fucking deep cuts yeah and uh i think we both know daniel picaa daniel picaer is my little like like like i've i fucking i love a pentagram i love shit like that yeah and then daniel piquot was like hey you know about real magic and then he's sort of like

you'll come with a grant morrison stuff oh yeah he'll like guide me a long shit and then i've i've delved into into that world and uh i think you notice when someone is just using a fucking the cross is upside down which is cool as like a fuck you to religion or whatever but like when someone's referencing fucking deep cut actual fucking magic

yeah yeah it's cool I did like change around stuff like there's one a song called Ship on Fire where the incantation is like not correct because if I were to do that publicly and people would sing along it would actually yeah it would be a good idea I fucking love that

that was one of my questions was like, yeah, because I noticed that with some of the other ones like, because there is in, in, uh, goetti, goettia, there is like, they love putting a fucking O-N on the end of something or like changing it. So there's a few in your lyrics that I'm like, has he changed that? So it's not actually a spell? Or is that actually a spell that I just haven't heard? Yeah. No, I did change a couple of things. Just, uh, yeah.

you never know you never know once you know you're you're yelling it at 600 people a night and they're yelling with you is there any real ones in there you got any real ones who knows oh i love it because i fucking during the pandemic that's when i got like really into that shit i got like super into it and like sex magic and shit like i got like i talked about it on dan's podcast not on this podcast like i got fucking spooky i got and then like actually the shit that I manifested all happened. And I was like, oh no. Oh, no.

I'm on a podcast now. Honestly, it was like, I was like, oh, this is, this is kind of cool, but like, I've seen movies. This is going to go horrifically wrong. But that's cool. I like, I like the fact that it's real deal shit in there. If you're watching this on YouTube, I am looking at my notes. I got in trouble for the last episode for not looking at my notes. Also, I got in trouble because.

I pulled my notes up and it was, because these are all in really nice 4K, I pulled my notes up and someone called me out on Twitter. It was like, bro and he has two notes. Because like you could see perfectly through to this camera and you could see the, you could see with the notes.

Okay, so back to what I'm saying about the trilogy. So devil is fine was about being, like from, from the perception of, a slave. Yeah. In captivity. Precisely.

Stranger fruit. Escaping? Pretty much. Yeah. And then what's Zeeland? And what is the reasoning for this being the self-title? Because normally people do a... This is why I thought it was a closer.

Well, I thought this was a trilogy. Because normally people either do... Here's the first record. It's a self-titled. And then record eight. Here's a self-titled. Because we found our sound. let's start with that question

okay why is this one a self-titled because all the magic's in the lyrics no it's it's two factors one is that I think we arrived at the sound or the the distillation of what we're trying to in you know working towards on this record and also

didn't have too many great ideas for an album title nice yeah I've done that but you shouldn't have said that bit the first I don't know. Oh, did I say the thinking thing? Yeah,

yeah. Fuck, okay. Yeah. But I agree that that is the amalgamation of all the other things that you've been doing. Like, I think the synthy stuff,

I'm a fuck, anyone that listens to the podcast knows, like my favorite band of all times, nine-ish nails. Like, you put a synth on anything with just like a fucking, give me just a, with some synth.

I'm fucking practicing sex magician to it. Like, that's my fucking shit. So there's always been the sympathy interludes and stuff. But then on this one, they're like refined. Yeah.

It's not just synth. It's like synth that fits into that world. Yeah. Maybe someone has been listening to the new Gary Newman record. Who knows? It could be one of 1,000 things. Like Trent Resented.

All the early, yeah. Gary Newman, yeah, I'll just do that. Do that, but more goth. More,

highlight. Give me the eye. I know. But it feels like, yeah, the, the, it's such a shitty press question. I don't even want to say it. No, I've got a press statements. I don't even want to say it.

Just like the, well, the heavier bits are heavier. And so I'm going to fucking scrap that. Yeah, that's also that it's a lot of to do with, Will Putney's fantastic mixing. Did he have any input on? Did he tell you to change anything? No, no. And what he did do is,

recorded it in our studio and he just like via Skype looked at our mic set up and said hey put one there or that one should be can you do me a favor can you do a Will Putney impression for me? I'm going to do it and you're going to go okay

that's it. Fuck no I'm not good at it can you do me a favor and now oh shit and Will hates it because everyone that's ever come on that's recorded with Will I'm like doing a Will punny impression but I love him to fucking death So he, so you, you engineered it or you got someone else to engineer.

Mark, our, our beautiful, beautiful singer. He has a studio in his place. In Switzerland. Yeah. Cool. And we engineered it together. He did. I just sat there.

Like a lot of coffee. Nice. But you've got the like, I was integral though. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Musically as well. While I, before I forget, because it's a question I really wanted to ask. So with it being like,

alternative story line of what if the black slaves had turned to Satan instead of Christianity which even saying out loud is fucking insane

have you ever had any kickback from like the black Christian community or do they just not does it not even come off on the radar? I think there were like two YouTube comments that said like miss me with that Satan shit

grow up yeah but I think like Satanism and music is like such an old not it's not going to phase anyone you know yeah but you are doing like do you think if they knew the left did most people not know that like the level of your lyrics are like this doesn't get more satan yeah but i mean they can't tell which i think is beautiful because like you said we're flirting with the mainstream and we actually have like legitimately yeah bad juju on the airwaves yeah on fucking bbc1 one

I'm a happy camper. Yeah, that's fucking cool. Please put some actual spells in there. That's fucking cool as far. Because I can't really, I mean, my, my ear is not that much on like the underground underground. I'm sure there are some pretty fucking magical bands. But other than like,

Watain Bohemoth, you guys, I can't really think of that many. There's some big pop groups who wouldn't be too happy if I said they were. But yeah, there's some evil stuff going. Because I first got into that stuff, other than Daniel Picard are holding my hand for it and being like, this is a book you need to buy, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Tall back in the day when I was a kid. And then I was like, what's Danny Carey's drum kit sat on? And it's like, oh, it's the lesser key of Solomon. I wonder what that is. I read it. I'm like, this is the coolest thing in the fucking world. It's fun. And now my podcast has a big pentagram.

There's a bunch of fucking chit everywhere. I love it. What is, it's bones. Because I am so confused by the neon thing. What do you mean bones? I don't know what it is? I'm glad you said it's bones because I have it. I'm a drummer.

Oh, okay. It is drumsticks. But I want some people are like, oh, it's just like a wicken sticks or whatever. And I'm like, cool, please think that. Because sometimes, particularly press agents, are like, I'll ask for ex-person from a band because I know we have a common interest in something or we're going to have a cool chat or whatever. Are you sure you don't want the drummer considering it's a drum podcast? and I want to fucking explode.

Because you see the drumsticks and I'm a drummer and obviously I know a lot of drummers so there's probably, I would say, 6040 to non-drummers and drummers by this point. But everyone's like, oh, it's a drum box. So I'll take bones. Bones? Okay. Because it looks like needles.

It could be anything. God, I'll take bones all needles. Here, definitely. Bones. Okay, we'll get my bones. It's a bone pentagram. Mm-hmm. I'm in.

Um, where was I on this? I'm not going to edit it because I just don't, I don't have an editor. It'll be great for the audio only part. I'll just leave it in there. I'll just put an ad here. Whoever doesn't have a screen in front of them right now. Fuck you.

All right. A hundred percent. I've spent a lot money on making this look. Look how good we look. Let's just spend a minute to look how good we look. God damn. Is that a look-up table in my face? It's glorious.

Love it. It's absolutely glorious. Let me go back to my notes because I will have forgotten everything. Okay. The Germanic language. Yeah. Lot of German lyrics, particularly on this album. Yeah, you know what's really funny?

One song called Gatardémeron is very German. I'm glad you said it because I wasn't going to that's one I'm going into. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very German. Yeah, it's just very angry sounding language and it works well with harder music. So I was writing that song and for some reason I thought like, no, this people won't like this. So in like a week time, I totally forgot the existence of Karmstein. So I didn't, yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. I was so in my little process. My little process. I gone forgot it. Nice accent. I fucking love it. Wow.

That's good. That's fucking good. Been watching some trash TV. Nice. Yeah. We do it well. We do it fucking well. Okay.

So what does that word mean? uh... Gertel Demiung is Twilight of the Gods It's um Nice It's uh the final act in Wagner Oh he's

He's also a great guy Yeah He's like the OG Racist black metal guy Yeah He was like I'm really shot and I hate everyone Was sorry

Forgive I have a degree in music But forgive my Fucking Netflix Um Forgive my Forgetting Was he bad

Or did Hitler just love him Well he was bad himself too He was in himself, also an anti-Semite, but I don't think to the degree that people assume he is. However, Hitler did use his music very prominently in the films, the propaganda films, um, with Lény Riefenstahl and everything. Uh, yeah. So like the OG Varg. Yeah, yeah. Vargner. Oh, my God. Oh, there's a meme. There we go. Um, and he might watch this and we'll be in trouble. Oh no.

So, yeah. The tools. Just somebody. Just come. No, don't come to my house. I don't want you here. So, right. What made you choose that?

I assume there's some cleverness there. I just wanted to reappropriate that dope-ass word. And musically, because it's like, it's kind of sick. Like, bargain is like, like, I don't know if it's to do with. with, it's hard to differentiate. Is it to do with the background behind it? Or is it like the chord progressions and stuff?

Could you call it a chord progression even if it's fucking, like the melody is like kind of evil? Yeah, he didn't, he didn't, he never resolved into just a major chord just for, gets and shiggles. He has this whole thing with the Trist in Accord, a chord where he just kind of flirts with the resolution of a chord for the entirety of a opera,

which is like, by the way, he was a guy who said, like, yeah, operas need to be five to seven hours long. And just in the final act, he resolves it. That's just dope. So did he create that? Yeah. No, his music is undisputably good, I think. HP love, I sat there, really my HP lovecraft, listening to Wagner, like, this is fine. This is fine.

well that's cool like the stuff resolving later in a record is my favorite fucking shit ever one of my favorite bands ever cult of Luna and Johannes has been on the podcast but like they're there other than you know debatable ethics of Wagner they're like the post metal equivalent in that they there'll be an intro and then 90 minutes later that intro comes back like a little bit later on. I absolutely love that. Yeah. It's like a little warm music hug.

I know this bit. Oh, it's back. We made a sandwich together. So did, what are the German lyrics in that song? Mm-hmm. In, I can't even say it. Go tell them a moment. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, well, part of it is just what to do when performing a ritual. And another part is a quote or a modified quote from Goethe. Yeah. from the Tsaubulele, just a ballad of his. And, yeah, he himself was also very into the occult. So just thought it fitting. How did you get started in investigating the occult? I don't know.

Being left alone at the library helped. And we have weird libraries in Switzerland. And, yeah. Were you like into metal beforehand? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I feel like that is. As much as we want to say, like, doesn't make you evil.

Fuck, it makes you evil. One of these guys singing about, oh, let me read that. Oh, that's fucking cool. I mean, it's not evil. I use evil as like... Well, yeah, classically seen evil. Yeah.

Because... So are you a practitioner? Are you like, do you... Do you... I guess... For the sake of this podcast? No. Absolutely.

Okay, cool. Yeah. So there's no... You wouldn't say you have a religion. You're not like a thalemone. No, I wouldn't say that. Wiggly, loosey-goosey. Yeah, same.

I'm more of like a just like, I like this bit, I like this bit. There's like a massive misconception and a massive, like, difference between, like, LeVe Satanism, Crowley Satanism, and then the whole weird area in between. Yeah.

But one thing that we can agree on is that it is called piss people off. by just using imagery from that. The amount of shit I get for that is crazy. Really? Do you not get shit in a matter? I guess...

Oh my God, it's drumsticks. He got it. But yeah, I'm like, yeah, I still get shit. I find it interesting because I sell quite a lot. It started as a podcast and then it sort of became a brand and now it's like a brand that has a podcast.

So, as much as the word brand is gross. But like, I have people who listen to the podcast from, like, Alabama and places like that. And they're like, can you please make some clothing without anything satanic on it? Because I can't wear it out. And I'm like, that's kind of cool that that still exists. It's fucked, but it's kind of cool. Yeah. Still edgy.

Still edgy. That's going to be on my tombstone, actually. Still edgy. Still edgy. It's going to be a skateboard on top. I find, do you think if you got bigger, you'd get more shit? I feel like, I feel like you should be getting some shit, to be honest. I feel.

First of all, no. No, I think maybe, maybe, but I also think it's not that edgy to be Satanist. You know, because they don't understand you're doing real shit. If you look, yeah, if you look at any, like, dark, you know, drill or trap album, there's, there's all these Satanist symbols. Just put in there like spices, basically. Yeah, but yours aren't spices. I see it.

Yeah. I see the real. I'm going to out you as a real. Okay. It's going to be a who fucking think piece. It'll be, yeah. The New Yorker.

Can't wait for it. Such good press. Such good press. You'll be fucking, be banned. It's been a while since someone's been banned purely for Satan. Although you're not getting any shit in Poland? Um,

no. I guess behemoth only get it because they, they are Polish, but like their blasphemy laws are insanely backwards. I know. And I think it's gotten worse, but we'll see you. We'll be there in a couple of weeks. Maybe this is the last time you've seen me. Oh, no, that would be sad.

But also respectfully kind of cool. Yeah, martyrs. Hey. I like, I feel the same way about like, because obviously I've got fucking like to tell you. I like everything that's quote unquote supposed to be edgy. And it's like now it is not the softest fucking person in the way. world. But like when I go to Japan, I'm not allowed in gyms. I'm not allowed in bating in pools.

And I'm like, kind of awesome. That's how I feel about when I hear about someone being annoyed about Satanism, I'm like, oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. Still got some edge there. That's good. I mean, I think that's refreshing to hear because we've kind of, you know, grew so accustomed to, yeah, tattoos and Satanism that it doesn't phase us, but it still means something. God. We need to step it up. Yeah. I mean, a wattain step it up quite a lot in the live shows.

Are they, post-COVID? Does anyone know? Now, do you know? They still allow to, like, chuck. Blood? Blood? Pig blood on people. Still doing that?

Still doing that. It still do it. Confirmed. Nice. And even they're not getting, I want to be like, I want to be cancelled, but like.

For cool reasons? For cool shit, only. None of this, like, if he did a fucking sick kick flip over, like Thatcher's grave, that's sort of that. That's a cool, like, or maybe even like... What are you doing later?

An incantation at Thatcher's Grave, Seance vibe. Yeah. It could maybe, yeah, involve, like, or like someone we do a poll on the Patreon, like, who actually deserves to die? Yeah. And then it's like, by that point it's just manslaughter, and then I'll just go do it.

But, I mean, if you... Say, if you say, say, okay, we're going to do a poll who deserves to die, but we'll do it by incantation. Is that a death threat? Because obviously it's not real, or is it just the intent of murder that is already incriminating? I think we should get a lawyer on board who is also heavily into murder. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what? Funny enough, lawyers that are into murder, no, but lawyers that are into metal. I got that copyrighted because someone had just started putting it on t-shirts and another drummer actually

motherfucker in Alabama really annoying no no no yeah just put it the right way up yeah this one's nice white magic and the the lawyer that I used was like oh I'm so into the bands like creator and stuff it was actually I think it was a Swiss lawyer and he was like that was my Swiss accent he was like so stoked on it he was like I have never got to do something like

like register a mark that's being to do with like Satan and metal in so long and he was like super fucking stocking at me a discount but he was super stoked. They are in there. They're in. We are infiltrating

the levels of the law. Next, in the gardens. They're in there. Right, back to my notes. Are you having fun? Yeah, I'm having a great time actually. I want to just quickly say that you stream on Twitch.

What do you do on Twitch? Because I love Twitch. I wish I'd give me some. more money hint. That's why this could have been stream live on Twitch, but they're not giving me any money. That's enough of my plug for I want money from Twitch. Yeah.

What do you do when you're on there? How often you stream? I just complain about how you don't get enough money. Because I want to give you my platform. Thank you. No, what I do is like the same thing I did on 4chan. I just take like music suggestions and trying to make songs of it. That's cool.

Yeah. I don't stream regularly. Why not? tour. But so when you're at home, you do? Yeah. How, how not regular is not regularly? Like once or twice a week?

That's pretty regular. Yeah, but I mean, I'm gone for half of the year, so. What, what's your username on Twitch? We've got a lot of Twitch. It's Zeelandarder, baby. You know, Rada says, Raw Dog from the band account. Oh. That's fucking cool.

And then you just go in. Talk shit. Do people have to, so here's just a biz, this question. Here we go. people have to do you paywall the suggestions this is my my issue with twitter uh with twitch is like the capitalism involved is necessary but i hate every single facet of yeah um there's no you can you can suggest things for free and it's just in chat and i'll just you'll just pick up on the ones that you yeah there's also no ads yeah cool that's all yet no no still keep keep the no ads

I found, what I've found, in fact, this episode at the very start I will have done an ad. And it was a great one too. Thank you.

Yeah. I think there's a, there's like a lot to be said, especially on a platform is owned by fucking Jeff. There's a lot to be said about people sticking. That's why I asked you a question

about the payroll. It's like sticking to their ethics even in a non-ethical, like cosmos. If you know what I mean. Like the, the, there's something to be said about

you could quite easily pay, well, like drop five subs and you can suggest a thing, but then there's two problems with that because I've, I don't like, I don't do the drum, you know,

like drop five subs and I'll play whatever fucking song you want because it's like, if I don't want to play this song, that A takes the intention away from whatever I'm playing because I don't want to know, you become a jukebox, then you become,

you're just as bad as the fucking machine. Yeah, yeah. And it takes the fun out of it, it makes it working. So I'm all for, it's the same thing like, like, seamless plug. The Patreon for the podcast is one pound

and you can't pay any more than one pound. Can you do that? I don't want any, I mean, I don't know, everyone pays a pound. Some people have tried to pay more and then I just messaged them and say, just make it a pound.

Okay. Because it's just, everyone still gets the same thing. But they're like, the group. Yeah, the egalitarianism on it. Yeah.

And the people who can't, if you can afford a pound, if you can afford the internet, you can probably afford a pound not to like completely just disregard anyone's cost of living crisis or anything. But, so I don't feel bad charging for it.

If I'm slightly less active for a month because I'm on tour or anything like that, then I again don't feel that bad for it. That's actually a good way of thinking about it, I think. Because I would have this huge, sense of responsibility or like that I owe someone something if I did like a subscription based thing but that kind of negates a lot of that but um I have a extremely hard time asking people for money just to begin with um and I just do this shit for fun I can go I can go on tour with my friends

yell at strangers professional yell magic yeah at strangers and that's my job and I think to have the gall to go home and say I'm going to ask strangers for my money just kind of doesn't sit right with me yet yeah i mean so it didn't sit right with me so then i just made it as cheap as possible so now it kind of sits right with me i'm like yeah it's a pound and then the twitch ding twitch is a different thing i didn't like do you play games are you a game see i'm not and i wish i fucking was used to be when i was a kid then i like didn't didn't i like got when i got into music i stopped playing or whatever the thing is i'm not good at it Because if you want to, like, do that on Twitch, you have to be, like, great.

And talk while. Yeah. I think I have what, I'm lacking a further half of a brain for that. This is smooth. It's all music. Yeah, it's all music and, like, obscure comic references. What kind of games do you play when you play games? I'll just hentai shit.

No, it's... See, now I can get into that. You want to give me some funny... No, no, they're just, like, weird indie games. Disco Elysium is one of my favorites. They kind of are in the scandal right now because apparently there was like really bad misogyny in their studio, which...

Rare. That fucking happens everywhere. It was the one studio that was like, sure, like they're fucking cool. They wouldn't do this shit, but still... Ah. Anywho, yeah. Love games. I feel like that's the same as everything on earth.

It's just... At this point, it's just exhausting. Like, why the fuck are you boring me with the same stupid, unnecessary shit again? It feels like, I feel like it's, uh, exactly, same with Blackmail. I feel like it is like a, it's a big clearing house, like what's happening right now in the entire world with everyone getting called out for everything. Instead of being like, the fucking commentators are just like,

it's gone too far. I'm looking at it as like, this is just clearing house. Like everyone is finally realizing you can't do this shit. And unfortunately it will be the next generation that probably reaps the rewards of it. Yeah. But it's fine. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah.

Got any kids? No. No, I mean either. Whenever I have someone on here who's got a kid, they have this whole different world view, and I'm like, I wish I had your worldview, but I don't,

because my life is finite in this realm, at least. I feel like, oh, this is going to be nihilistic as fuck. Yeah, join me. That's me. I feel like once you have a kid, you kind of become a pussy.

Precisely. I say, I say, I said it you so you didn't have to say. No, you kind of offset your priorities and your ambitions to your kid. Yeah. This is obviously not for everyone, but it feels like some people, when they have a kid, it's fine if I don't give my all, because I'm giving my all for this kid to give their all.

So I don't have to do anything. Couldn't, couldn't be me. Next. Next, right. I'm conscious of time because the end of the, let's look. what else have I got my fucking notes nothing that we haven't actually just fucking

you know why because we're great at this yeah I think you are great at this I don't really know what I'm doing I just own cameras and and at bone pentagram yeah you're gonna be fucking trademark to that okay so we're gonna get to the best part

of the podcast which you might not even be briefed on which I prefer that you're not briefed on I'm not and it's usually bang on an hour in that we do it which is fine because by this point anyone that doesn't know your band has decided if they like you or not.

I'm pretty sure they will have all decided to like you and go check out the band. So we're done. Work is done. Work is over. Okay. Now we do the fun there, even though that was all fun to me.

To me too. So what we do these days on the podcast unless there's two guests. A lot of people complained on the last episode, why didn't you do the end segment? And it was because when there's two guests, too much conversation between these two people and I have an ego.

so I need to be involved. Obviously. So what we do, and don't cut in with anything until I give you all of the rules. This is like, this is the downbeat Dungeons and Dragons essentially, right? And what it is,

is we curate a dream festival. Like what we talked about earlier. But every element of it is absolutely a dream. So it can be wild. We're going to go, the only rule is, that Zeelandada are playing. So you've got to think in your consciousness.

That already sucks. No, exactly. I'm sorry. I'll have to work. Exactly. So that's the, that actually changes some of, some of the,

some of the questions I'm going to ask. So the first thing that we're going to ask, and I'll give you some examples as we start each section. Yeah. Is where is the festival located? Now, before you say anything at all, that doesn't,

that could just be as simple as a country. It could be as simple as this festival, because I absolutely love this festival. It could be we've had in an underground bunker, we've had at a swimming pool, like, so we'll start with country. And then if you want to elaborate from there, and I'll guide you on this.

I'm the dungeon master. Since I'm playing. You are playing. See? See why I've done that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not bad.

It's going to be in France, because that means the catering will be fantastic. And I'm thinking of myself here, love cheese, love bread. Okay. Yeah. So southern France, because it will also smell of lavender and rosemary just by default. Nice. And whoever does not like that.

Have you got a specific area? No. Just south of France. Weather's going to be nice. What time of year? Depending on the year. Late summer, not too hot. Oh, glorious.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then are we out? Outdoor festival? Oh, it's definitely outdoor. It's going to be sunny because I can obviously demand that. Yeah, you can as a dream festival. And you said to touch back on lavender. Yes.

Would you like lavender field? Look, so this is, it's a huge area. He's in. When I get, I see it, I see it when it goes in their head. And I'm like, okay, he's in. Yeah. So there's obviously going to be multiple stages. I think we're just two, two.

It's like a tastemaker. Like it's, there's also going to be like wine involved. Bougy. It's, it's, it's, it's bougie, but it'll get trashy later because there's going to be, like, amazing, like, dance acts. Here, Rosemary Field, here, lavender field, the ocean isn't far. So you'll get, like, some sea, sea, fresh air, lavender, rosemary. Nice. So we're going for two, two, that's a great accent.

Thank you. We're going for two, two, are we going to go Hellfest style, two main stages next to each other? Well, let's do two main stages and like one tent for when things get really raunchy later on. That's good because I need to go into the element of the tent. So you've touched on this already. What's catering? Yeah. So, because this is actually a question on the podcast, what is catering?

Okay. So it's cheese, you've mentioned cheese and bread, but that can't be a whole dinner. There's going to be sharkutri at the wazoo all day. Yeah, just everywhere. Yeah. Chilled? Because in some of these hot festivals. I don't want to see a fly.

I'm not, I'm gonna be there obviously because I'm helping, but I want to see a fucking fly. No, no, no, this ain't your granddad's catering. These are professionals. These are professionals. I'm talking like I'm gonna insist that they wear the silly hats. Oh, we're in France, what, the Ratatouille style hat. Oh, I'm so down.

We're all in. And where's catering? Is it separate building? Is it a tent? It's actually a building because it's also their condition. Oh, now we're doing. Yeah, and there'll be like a pig on a spit. Oh.

And just like every, every lavish, like, and I'm talking with the apple in the face. The real. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of also a little bit like, Satan. Just a little bit like. Is that? Might be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ideally, like, the pig is almost like indistinguishable from a pig, but you can see a mouth and you can see it. Is that a human love? Is that human? Do I want to kiss this? I mean, it's a dream. festival, you could, not going to put words in your mouth,

but you could have human meat. You could have human meat. No. I was hoping so, if you had said yes, it was going to be the Instagram real. How about this? Everyone will get a plate of food.

One in a hundred will be human meat. And you can't tell. Who's the human? Who's the cannibal now? We just don't know. Who's the, oh, and everyone's like at their own table. He's like, I think it's me. I think it's, yeah, I feel bad at.

There's someone like really quietly like, yeah, the food was fine. And they're like, they've completely wiped their plate and gone back for seconds. The nose starts bleeding. The food was fine, yeah. It's fine. It's fine. Okay. I'm just hungry.

Yeah. So what do you, you know, Mel, not to name drop you again, still vegan? Oh, there'll be vegan options. Give me an option. You can't just, otherwise it's going to be cereal. No, no, no. There's a chikifta. There's also like an Indian station.

And there's also, I want to say Ethiopian. Ooh, real nice. See, that's... Mel will be happy. Mell's happy. I mean, that's like... Right now we're in it. That's a professional capacity.

Okay, so... The big one. Who is the headliner of the festival? this is hard. This would normally be your favorite band of all time, but sometimes people have had like a big band they just want to see. I think ARCA would fucking rip.

So you're not going like, you're not going huge, huge festival headliner. I think if we can have like huge bands, but just fuck everyone over and like, yeah, it's ARCA headlining. Get fucked Muse. That would be nice. Do you want a muse support?

No, I just actually. I think news are busy, you know? They're busy? Yeah, they're busy? So give me the band underneath the headliner. Mm-hmm. So slightly smaller band that you also want to see. This is why I'm just like, where do we go?

You know, I think that's a comfy spot for me to play. Okay. Because it's not too late. I don't put myself like in smack dab in the middle of things, but I still get like it, get an audience, you know? See, this is just like, I'm like, this festival sounds too realistic now. This is supposed to be your dream. Oh, you think this is a game?

It's exactly a game. It's exactly a game. We've had, what do we have? Someone, uh, Andrew Hurley from Fall Out Boy had, um, Wu Tang.

Yeah. And ODB hadn't died. Oh, wait. How about, oh shit, yeah. And then he also had Freddie Mercury. Queen were playing Freddy Mercury.

Mercury was a hologram. That's tasteful. You can really. Yeah. What were you about to say? Okay. So stage one. Thank you.

It's like early, early afternoon. Like, let me, it's four o'clock. Yeah. Death grips come on. Okay. People are losing their shit. Fuck. Okay.

Like they're bringing up the big guns early. I wonder who's next. Lights go on on stage two. It's death grips again. Wow. Yeah. That's nice. Is there any kind of like,

not to again put stuff in your festival, in your festival, like, world, put words in your festival mouth. So how about some sort of magic trick? This is what I'd like to see from this. So, like,

did you ever see the video of, I don't know your opinion on this band, but I'd love to see you around tour with this band because I love them. Do you ever see the video of when Ghost changed Papo Emeritus the first time? Yeah. He played a whole set

somehow and then the one that he turned into like a changing of the popes came out and sang the rest of the set and it appeared to be the same guy. Yeah. What if death grips did that? They finished. Oh shit. And then the lights are on and then it's deaf grips again. Yeah. And you can't tell who was real. Yeah. Fuck. Who's the real Zach Hill right now? You can't tell which is which is a hologram like. Mm-hmm. Not to put is your first. That's, that's a good idea. That's a good idea. That ghost thing was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. I didn't see it in real life. I saw a video.

I was like, but that rips. That even means the whole set, more likely, the whole set was actually Tobias and then he probably went backstage and sang while the other guy pretended to sing. Mm-hmm. But still fucking cool.

Yeah. Yeah. More of that. More of that. More of that shit. You ever think about doing any like super elaborate shit? Your light show is really good. Yeah.

That's Grigoo Bloom. Shout out to him. we don't have the budget but yeah I mean we that's the thing like touring is expensive and especially in this climate even though we're selling tickets and people are coming to the shows

it's that next level to spend money on yeah crazy shit but you know what happens after death grips thank you he's back okay we're through with the grips yeah and both grips are they two 45 minutes sets death's grips is yeah yeah yeah death grips is 90 minutes

death grips it's fucking bierc finally something different love it yeah i saw bork and the only time in fact i was going to mention it earlier the only time i've ever played like a mixed festival of like crazy every everything fucking everywhere i played festival which is in is aisle of white and it was the cure bork and someone else on the three days and we played on bork's day and it It was when her album came out that had the song, a lot of the songs just had like fucking 12 handpans. You know, the one I can't remember, it was like 20, maybe 2010, I want to say, 2011.

And she came out and she played the whole album back to front, the whole brand new album that wasn't even out yet. And then she just goes into the microphone. It's my Bjork impression. Please, let's fucking go. My manager said I shouldn't have done that. But fuck him. And I was like,

That is the hardest fucking shit I've ever seen. It was fucking amazing. Oh, that lady rules so hard. Okay, so she's on, she's on, okay. Now your lineup is crazy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Good, it's good.

Yeah, and it's like, at this point, it's like seven-ish, six or seven-ish. When do you hit the stage? Right after death grips. You know what that means? You just said Bjork was on. They're back, baby. Wait, okay. It's their third set of the day.

Okay. So they are pissed at me. Death grips. Death grips. Bjerk. Death grips. Death grips. Me.

You. Yeah. Anything special? Like, you can go out on production here. It's your dream festival. You've got anything crazy happening in production? Pyrill, but on the wrong stage. But still...

Now you're fucking on board. Will Putney is one of these. It was 9-inch nails and Metallica. And they're back-to-back stages. But they did one song each. So you could watch Trent Reznor being fucking annoyed by Metallica playing. But Metallica were playing... And Justice for All in full.

With the bass turned up, but with the same Angus snare. And then they did... And it was back-to-back, 9-inch Nail is Metallica. Oh, shit. So you've got... That's beautiful. The Zeelandada Pyro is actually happening on the other stage. Yeah.

Is there anyone else playing on the other stage? Why are your pyros going on? Is it take a wild guess who's on that stage? Hit me. It's fucking death grips. Deaths number four. No, no, they're not playing this time. They're just standing.

They do a real bad job at like lip syncing. To your songs? Yeah. But they have all the pyro. And they have the pyro. Yeah, that's in their favor. So are they getting paid for three sets, four sets? That's not my problem at this point.

I think we're in so deep. I think we could make this happen. Yeah. Okay. And then. I think that kind of concludes the concert part of it. Yeah. Because it's a fucking long-ass set, too.

Okay. Death grips are doing encores without us playing. Oh, perfect. Okay, so, which leads me to the next part of the festival. What's the after party? It's actually in the tent. There's two segments. One is for the public and one's for the cool backstage people.

It's the same DJ, but, you know, just... Listen, it's a dream festival. You've got Death Clips playing 3.5. five sets. You've got, right, okay, I'm going to give you

some other examples. The band malevolence, Josh and Wilkie from Malveillance, they said, everyone from the show gets on a cruise ship, it travels to a small island

where there's a studio set up and everyone that's in the bands can jam and record stuff. Will Putney's, yeah, exactly. I was like, fuck you,

or you enjoy that shit? I make music once every two years and don't let me do it again. Yeah. um then will putney was like everyone in his band goes to japan after the show and it's like you're just having an after party just a tent listen at that point i don't want to get into a fucking plane deal with customs so what do you want your dream post show doesn't have to be a party after party is like it is a So your dream show is a party?

Yeah. It's, well, we're fed, we're slightly drunk, willing to drink more, an experiment with them, intactogens. What? And Little Texas

plays some ugly hardcore. Okay. And I drink so much until I enjoy it. What are you drinking? I'm a simple boy. I drink lager that tastes close to water. I quite like one of those.

Like I, I like a fucking bud light. Yeah. I like a cause light. I like a dog shit 3.5% beer. And if you're in the US and someone says like there's this macro brewery, it's amazing, like it smells like a stale foot in bread. And I don't get the...

See, I also like those. Yeah. The IPA world. But my issue with them is I've realized recently I'm allergic to them. Oh. Like an IPA, every time I drink one, my fucking sinuses go crazy. My sinuses go crazy. The simplest thing.

But that's why I like, switch to like the shitter, shittier, the beer in terms of like, ABV. What's in this? Water, rice, hops, hop extract, not even hops, just a fucking, the closest thing to like a digital beer. And then I'm like, okay, I can drink. Yeah. You're just drinking beer the whole night.

There's no, like, you ain't got a cocktail, favorite little cocktail? I'm, I don't know. Like, I do poorly with liquor. I do great with beer. I'm a happy drunk, but I get, like, sleepy. and like headachey with anything else. So I will drink Buckfast tonight though. Nice.

Yeah. Hey. Hey. Maybe I'll drink some Buckfass with you tonight. Fuck. Yes. How about that? That's a great idea.

I love a bit of Buckfast. Tour manager Mel, shaking. Shaking. Shaking now. I'm not having anything to do with this. She's furious. By this point, I think we're done.

What have you got coming up after this tour? Let's plug something. Zeelandada, the album, Zeerlanada. of the album is out from the yard of Cilinarder from the eyes and there's a track there's a track you did it you fucking did it the trinit the trinic hat trick god god's hate did it as well the song is eleanada by the band zelanada and the album zelenada sick by death grips but okay what are you got coming up after this um well we got to survive this tour after that i think i am scoring a theater then a movie whoa i can't roll back that's cool shit yeah i didn't know

That's the only goddamn business. I should have fucking researched that more. No, no, you couldn't have known. What do you score? This is just like a theater in Zurich, a theater piece. Then after that, it's a movie I'm not at Liberty to talk about yet. That's fucking cool. It's fun.

Good for you. Yeah. And then I'm going to write music and see if that's enough for an album. Do you, when you do your scoring, is it all on computer? Yeah. what um i want to see now it's getting nerdy but we've done if they're here by this point then the nut yeah sorry guys so i want to know specifically because i used to make like electronic music what door are you using i'm using um logic and a little bit of ableton nice logic logic

logic for middy ableton for whatever whatever and then so are you scoring have you got like a traditional like do you bring the Zeer-Lanada vibe into the scores is what I'm asking or are you doing like this is this is for a violin this is for this exactly yeah and then do they then you then print it out how does that even work I don't know no so I'm often I can get away with just the midi sounds because I have a decent library that sounds okay um what library come on the nerds are still here uh it's just spitfire audio anything they do is just the best um you affiliate I wish I fucking was. There we go.

I did that for you. I did that for you. Guys. That's Spitfire audio. Spitfire audio. Oh, wow. Audio needs. You ever done that?

I'm just saying that to them. Oh, the baby you say. That's like a little, that sounded like something from like fucking labyrinth. Like some little like fucking goblin. Oh, you know this. Daniel P. Carter, he always sounds like when he talks on the radio. Oh, I have an impression.

Carry on. It's always as if someone's, like, Yes, like bringing away the mic. I do it on here all the time. I do it all the time. Oh,

BBC. I don't want to. That's literally it. I'm going to get it. He'll hate me because I do this all the time. I love him to bits. That's, I always wondered how,

how that came to be. Here we go, we go, we go, we go, we go, we go, we go, we go. We've got to get the right song up. We'll get the right song up. This is dead air, but it's fine. Daniel P. Radio, everyone.

coming up zelenada live from made of Val I fucking love it love him love him to death he's very very specific sound he's the best

if anyone hasn't heard Daniel Piccarat's got a lovely podcast called someone who isn't me who isn't me someone who is I just called it swim and I want it every time I search for swim

it's his fucking fault for having such a fucking out oh you've got two names well guess what I can only find one of them you've been on it before yeah He's had loads of cool people. Talks way more about the magical shit than me,

so get involved with that. I've asked you about your theatre stuff, didn't I? Yeah. You get away with the MIDI? Yeah, like rare occasions I'll get like a violinist or like a chamber orchestra to do stuff. I want to know this for my own benefit. Do you get that...

Glasgow. Someone's been stabbed. Do you get... Do you have to print out the notation for them or, make it for them. These people come with iPads, normally. And then you just give them the music and then they'll figure it out. Well,

sometimes, but sometimes I have a friend who study jazz and is better at notation than me. I can get by, I can do it. It just takes me a day per page. Yeah. So you get somewhere else to do it. Respect.

Anyway, thank you so much for coming. I hope we get to do this again. Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing you tonight. If I can please come. Okay. Well,

I'll just, I'll meet your other back from Buckfast. Thank you, man. Cheers. Nice one.