The Downbeat - Matt Garstka - Animals As Leaders

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

My guest this week is the phenomenal Matt Garstka. Back for his THIRD episode. Matt is the drummer for Animals As Leaders and generally considered to be one of the best drummers of his generation. Back again, I got the chance to pick his incredibly ridged brain about the drums, working out, movies, and all the good stuff.

What's up, you glorious, glorious, glorious, glorious, glorious, glorious, glorious people. Did you think that was skipping? If you're one of the people that hates me, more for you. You shouldn't be watching this. Go and listen or watch anything else. You could watch one of those videos of a horrific scene that you like so much, considering you don't like the Downbeat Podcasts. Trying to make this as annoying as possible, but as quick as possible. Also trying to do it with no edits. I'd really like to get better at this so let's just get straight into it

I've got a lot of these to do if I'm honest with you I've got a ton before I talk to you about my guest who is maybe the best drummer in the world and his wisdom let's run down the lovely people who support this podcast not by going to patreon.com

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This episode, we went deep. We went deep AF, drums, Jim. I just scratched his brain and I just was just like, what is in this thing? Teach me all about it. He has unbelievable lesson packs, which are unbelievably cheap, available at mat dash gasker. Dot my Shopify.com. Matt, side note, buy a better domain. Unbelievable guy, great friend. Shout out to the guy.

We went for coffee. Before the podcast, we went for coffee after the gym. The man lifts like a maniac as well. One of the waiters, I'm smiling because it was so sick. One of the waiters was like, is this Downbeat podcast round three? Matt was impressed. I looked cool. It's Matt Garska on the Downbeat podcast.

Matthew Garska. Yes, sir. We've been hanging out all day, so we'll act like we haven't. Yeah. Thanks for coming back. Of course. Always. It's always a good chat.

I'm so fucking stoked. I am too. I'm glad we got a lift in. That was awesome. We got a great lifting. This motherfucker is so strong. Not really. Because I'm looking at the guys who are, you know, deadlifting 600, 700 pounds.

Or bench pressing three, three, three. Three plates on each side. 315. You're so close to that. What you do today? 275? 275, yeah. That's a lot of weight.

In bags of sugar, you know, that's 120. That's a lot of bags of sugar. That's fucking good math. That was quick. It's around 120. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you were close and then you hit the 90 dumbbells for incline? No, you went to 95s.

95, yeah. But who's counted? I saw your fucking ice drop when I said 90s. And your eyes went 95, but, you know. Yeah, no. I mean, I was doing hundreds before I left for tour, so that, that sucks. Constant, I mean, you can relate.

Every time you go on tour, not having the proper resources with food and resources with a gym, a proper gym, you know, something you have to, like, recover from. I love the fact we're just going straight in on lifting. It's the dream. The dream podcast guest, lifter, one of the greatest drummers in the world. Like, what?

Shut the fuck up. Literally, perfect. All right, so on tour, what is, like, how often you go in the gym and have you got, like, a chain or you just? This, this past one, I was going three days a week. And I was, and it took me a while to sort it out because I was trying to keep, like, the bro split type thing, you know? for a while there. But I ended up just going three days and being like, I was like a couple weeks in.

It was a seven week tour. So a couple weeks in, I was like, all right, hitting three days a week, I'm going to hit full body each one of those days, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

And I'm going to hit it hard Monday and hit it hard Friday. And then Wednesday is going to be like my, I'm still hitting full body. I'm still hitting legs, hardly legs because we've talked about this too it's like double bass drumming with doms in your legs is it's fucked impossible and not fun no performance suffers no it sucks but you'll hit legs and my legs get bigger too like i literally my rim shots it's like now i have to raise my snare because outgrowing your drums like a baby it's like i have good leg genetics same

and forearm in cat, genetics. So like I'm blessed. You've got fucking are kind of bum that you didn't have shorts on today. Not to be like super fucking. Sounds pretty. Pretty sucks, my dude. Damn, I really wish you had shorts.

Hey, you're the best drummer in the world. I wish you were wearing shorts. No, but like you had, there's a video of you like playing. I can see him right now. Your car is, look at that. Yeah. I don't even, I don't work them.

I'm so jealous. I got no calves and you know what it's like if you've got no calves, they ain't coming. Yeah, it sucks. And we're getting on the synthol. Just fucking just inject myself with oil. Don't do that. That's the worst. Have you seen that guy that's got, like, it just puts sinth out.

If everyone doesn't know, sinthal is like an oil that idiots will inject into their muscles to make the muscle bigger. I think it inflames it and like it permanent. blows them up but it also looks horrifying it it doesn't look like a muscle yeah it looks like it looks like someone's photoshopped you i think you like you like kill your flesh or something i don't know what it does but it's there's that guy it's like the lip fillers for girls it's like this is monday you're going hard wednesday you're going hard basically that's right monday and friday i'm going hard and then wednesday the middle day is when i'm like it's active recovery kind of

But also like, I'm in the gym. Full body is a fucking long workout. It is. Like, give me an hour and a half, two hours, something like that. And it doesn't, you're, you're literally doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday. You're not doing, oh, I have a day off here, so I'll do it. You're just sticking to it even if there's a show, though. Yeah.

Which is, it's kind of fine. Some days, because, like, I'm not doing, you know, 12 sets of arms. and then 12 sets of legs or like 12 sets of chest, 12 sets of back. It's not like that. It's like, you know, I'll do four to six of arms or a buys and then four to six of tries, you know,

four to six of chest. And I'll favor, like Monday might be like a, you know, I'm favoring chest more and favoring, you know, tries more or something. And then. And on Friday when I'm going hard again, then I'm favoring back and buys more.

So do you find... I'm still slating kind of like a bro split. Yeah. Is there a reason you only do three days? Do you not get fucking bored? Yeah, I do. But like, it's also just like every day I was realizing it was just detracting from the energy that I could bring in the show. And that's the ultimate thing that I, you know, if it's something.

if anything's affecting my performance, including caffeine. It's like, you know, I'm enjoying being back home and being able to drink as much freaking coffee as I want. But when the first couple weeks, I'm on the road, it was actually the first three weeks. I couldn't have more than like a double shot of espresso. Usually I'm having like six shots. Yeah. I've seen you.

I've seen you have six in a pre-workout today. Dude, it's adrenaline. It's literally too much adrenaline. Like the caffeine and then. doing a show, it's like, oh my God, this is too much. Yeah. Because what I naturally get from just getting on the stage is like, I could go crazy right now. Yeah.

You know. And if you have too much caffeine, you what, like rush or just feel fucking? Just less in control. Less precise and less. Yeah, I don't know. Do you not get a fucking, when you're not going to be a fucking, you know, when you're When do you have that first double, double shot? When do you have it, like, AM?

Yes. And then you don't have another, you don't have another one all day. Correct. And if I have it too close to the show, that's also, that will also mess me up. Yeah. See, my problem is, straight from the path, we have a ritual, which is the shotgun of Red Bull before the show. Literally, pre-stage. Yeah.

And I drink coffee all day. And I think it definitely affects me. I'm definitely, it's a fucking stimulant. I'm ahead of the click. Yeah. And it's hard to get back there. Because there'll be some days when I'm like a little bit homeover or something. And then I play.

And I'm like, oh, I'm in the pocket. And it's because the coffee and the adrenaline. And the hungoverness is balancing out. It's perfect. It's absolutely. It's a chemical perfection, which is very hard to get. I've had days where I'm hungover. Um, because I, I don't like to drink on tour, but like, sometimes I will.

And just because I'm like, all right, I'm ready to let loose or whatever. And then some days when I'm like kind of hung over, like I've drank the night before, I play amazing the next day. But you also have to like be careful what you're extrapolating. Because then you could be like, oh, well, you know, I wore black socks today. So I need to wear black socks every day. It's like, I'm not. It's not a good practice.

I'm going to be hung over every day to play good. Trust me, that doesn't work. Don't think like that. Have you got any like this has to, like a crazy fucking superstition? You got anything? Nothing. Nothing. I'm not a superstitious person.

What about? I believe that our thoughts have an impact on the way that we perceive life and the way that we go about things. Like before getting on stage thinking. oh man I drank last night or like oh I had two coffees today instead of one and or like oh I didn't get to a sound check and like being too neurotic can those thoughts can most certainly impact how we feel and then it's cyclical then it affects our actions then we look at our actions and we're like oh well this is clearly real so it makes it more real and it's like cyclical like you're like you're like you're like you're like you're like you're like you're like you're like you're like you. will it into existence almost by worrying about it. Yeah. So you don't, have you got any like ways that you mitigate that? Because the examples you just gave are so specific that they must definitely pop into your head.

Oh yeah. I'm more on the neurotic side. Yeah, I was going to say you can't be that good and not neurotic. So how you deal with it is my question. It's part of what, see, this is the huge dichotomy that I'm realizing is that there's like, there's kind of two. meta personalities or like meta men you know um not to be sexist but like you know what i'm saying archetypes yeah so like one is the super artsy creative free person that's just like fuck it i'm gonna

play and just they just get on stage and they just rock it and they don't think twice about anything and they might be messed up on drugs they might be they might just be like they don't practice or they have a harder time practicing actually because that requires them to be to have foresight. Yeah. And to think, oh, well, I need to work on this stuff and be organized. And that's not their archetype. Their archetype is just go for it and live in the moment.

And so they get really good at performing and living in that space. Whereas the other archetype is like the disciplined neurotic person that thinks ahead, who probably has some sort of trauma from that where something triggers them to be like, oh, I need to think ahead. I need to, you know, not do this so that, or do this so that this other thing doesn't happen to me. I guess one way I'm trying to let go of that neuroticism is to like, I've been reading The Way of Zen by Alan Watts, do you know? No, Alan Watts, yeah. Yeah.

So he went to Japan at one time to study Zen. and its basis is that it's a way of liberation, right? So essentially, because it's a way of liberation, to say what it is is kind of the wrong approach because then you're putting confines on it already. So you kind of have to say what it is not, much like removing pieces from a sculpture to reveal its form, you know, because it's supposed to liberate you.

So you can't just be like, you know, part of it's like trying to be free is still going to chain you and put shackles on you in a way because you're still trying to achieve something. You're trying not to try me or something like that. So like... So how are you doing it? Well, that's the thing. You just got to like kind of let go and realize that it's almost like what people say they experience like on DMT where they're like some sort of disassociation with the reality that we've been fed, the conventions that we've been fed. And all of the thought processes that we tell. ourselves, you know, are true. And I don't know. I wish I had, it's hard to explain. I wish I could

come away. I've got two points on that. I wish I could have come away from my DMT experience with something like that. But as I told you earlier, I just saw it. It sounds like you did, though. You had some sort of like realization that almost nothing matters, you know? It's like, things matter, but also they don't. Yeah, my girlfriend hated. it because I can't if anyone doesn't know I've talked about it on the podcast before obviously but like obviously as well if you're watching this

this is a joke and this didn't happen hypothetically this happened um but took DMT the world peeled back I was on the bandwagon and everything was like N64 polygons and everyone looked like they were in the Simpsons

and the saturation was turned up and everything was crazy and then it disappeared and once disappeared it looked like someone turned the saturation down on life for a bit but I realized oh I just saw what is behind all of this or something else and now nothing matters and I had very chill almost like what you're saying I can just go with the flow mentality but it it needs recharging it's gone again now but I did read a book it's quite similar if you haven't read it it's real it's not I don't if you're a big reader, but there's an audio book, but there's also, it's also really short.

It's called The Inner Game of Tennis. You ever heard of that book? No. Oh, change my fucking life performance-wise. You're going to fucking love it. I'll buy it for you. My thing now, I want to do it as a gift because my thing, my friend told me it, and now any one of my friends that I talked to that hasn't, I think will like it.

Not because you need it, but like, I'd like to buy it as a gift and be like, there you go. That'd be very cool. It's called the inner game of tennis. I can't remember who it's by, but it's basically he was, he was a tennis coach. And he was basically trying to teach people. And he was, he was seeing that you could have like someone who is an extreme pro at tennis. And this was like in the 70s. You could have someone that's an extreme pro.

You're playing and they're serving in there absolutely incredible every single time. Then you could ask that same person. He did like a study. You could ask the same person. who is a pro, what is it about your serve that makes it so good? Then they would explain to you what they think is making it so good. And then the next serve they did would be dog shit because they've started thinking about it. And the whole thing.

That's part of the whole Zen thing. It must. By articulating what something is in reality, we're actually minimizing it. We're putting it into speech because the reality is. is it's far more than that. It's everything. You know, like everything in the universe

has led up to this moment. So in a way, everything is, you know, being represented or it has that level of complexity. Yeah. The minute you start,

and that's like analyzing it, you start blowing it. So the whole thing was like, he was like, that's crazy. I'm going to start teaching people how to let go. Like fucking,

Alan Watts type stuff, but this is like specific to tennis, but it's being specific to tennis is being specific to a musical instrument and performance and stuff like that. Yeah. But one of the like, it's a state of mind. Yeah. One of the things that it like teaches you, which I started doing it was actually Freddie Sheed who plays drums for Lewis Cabaldi, who told me to get it is like, high you, the way to do it, the ideal flow state to get in.

the ideal flow state is to be far removed from the thing that you're doing mentally so not concentrating on oh fuck i got to do this got to do this like the like the fucking flow but his thing is like you visualize something about what you're doing but far from far removed from what you're doing so freddie freddie when he's playing is thinking of he's visualizing his drawing his drawing drumstick but not looking at it and he's visualizing all the little tiny chips that are happening in the drumstick so his brain is present in drums and thinking about the drums and what he's doing but he's not thinking about the 16-9 high app and he's thinking about the bits chipping off so I was doing it while I was looking at my ride for entire sets I would just be

visualising the warp of the symbol and I and I'm not I'm not worrying this hard section's coming up or I just fuck that bit blah blah blah blah and then I'd like watch videos back and I was like I was fucking nailing it and I was present but not really you're not getting in your own way yeah the art of getting the fuck out of your own way yeah and all all these books have a similar theme but that one's real real riding the wave it's difficult makes me think about like improvising when um there might be like a solo section or something and I found that like I was almost never like looking at my drums and like being like oh do this and that it's like I'm in my head yeah and I'm and I'm not imagining what it looks like on the kit I'm imagining what it sounds like and then I'm just kind of doing it and it's like I am being more sloppy because I'm not looking at what I'm doing when I'm working on technique and stuff,

I'm obviously more hand-eye coordination. I'm super fixated on that accuracy, so I'm going to be more accurate. So, like, there's a drawback, but at the same time, it's the vocabulary that you're focusing on

and the expression and speaking, like what words you're, what message you're trying to speak as opposed to tripling and stumbling over the words. It's kind of like a there's like a

Buddhist added that's like some grasshopper tells a centipede like you know, oh you're very coordinated. Pray which leg goes after one another and the centipede lays in a ditch trying to figure that out.

Can't get out. Big brain fucking shit. That's big fucking brain shit. Not to go off on it. It's not even on a tangent, but how do you build up improvising chops? This is me just wanting to know right now. Because when I see your improvised solos, number one, how much is actually improvised?

I mean, I have no idea what I'm going to play. Zero. One second before, I'm like, I don't know what I'm going to play. Do you know how many bars you have? Well, of course, yeah. I don't know. Is there like a way out? it that everyone knows to come back in or is there a no we played a click so it's like pretty

known this is the amount of bars does it have does it tell you mat solo over no some people have that i know not me it's only click that's left of your ripping solo get out of here bro you don't know what you do it does it develop throughout the tour is it like sometimes you know like we've gotten off the click before like somebody rushes something and like I'm not on the click enough or I had a beat here or an eighth note or some shit and I screw up. In the solo? Not in the solo, just like it could be the song, whatever.

And I'm like, fuck. I don't know what I did because obviously I spaced out. Something happened. Glitch. It's like, okay. Well, there's no markers now. So sometimes, yeah. I'm like, it would be nice if there was like.

at one. Have you got no markers at all? None. It's just click, man. Just click. Not even... That's it. And sometimes in certain sections, it'll be like, it'll be like, and then of course, if we go like, then I'm going to change the clicks. I program all the clicks. So I'm going to change it to be triplet subdivision. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you playing to a 16-note click live? Or is it made? It's quarters, eighths. The only time it's 16th is no. Yeah, I was going to say, that's

ludicrous behavior. Actually, I think, no, not even on a rhythmo. Yeah. But you don't have any markers, because even I've got, my click is the clopheist or whatever the logic. Same here. I like that one. Yeah, brother. But I

have before a chorus, an out of a chorus, and into a new section. I just have gong, gong, gong, once to tell me that the next bit is coming. You don't even have that? No.

Just count and know the song. You just told me you fuck up. Well, it does happen, yeah, but it's like, you know, once every 50 shows or something, you know. What's, I actually, I do love having the,

having the height, just one bar of high pitch before a new section because it's just a little pat on the back. while I'm playing like, you're good. Everything's, everything's going to plan. I quite like it. Yeah, that's, that's smart.

I mean, that, I like that. That might should be a thing. Maybe treat yourself. Yeah. Treat yourself as just a little octave. Sounds like work reprogramming that. It's so much fucking work. I have to do that.

We have a tour coming up and we're doing a bunch of, doing a bunch of like stuff that's going to be time code for the first time ever, like lights and shit. like that. Oh yeah. But currently I just have, I run our click and our samples off a phone with a splitter. I'm fucking... A phone. This phone right here in my

pocket. This phone right here, we have a backup. The same one you're searching the dark interwebs. The same one I'm looking for pornography on in my bunk. That's what I was getting to. In my bunk. The same phone that provides a rocking show provides me with a rocking show about

two hours afterwards. But yeah. You ever gotten like a ding? through the front of house. No, do you know what the fucking problem is that the, in the UK, you can turn it off, but you know there's the notification that comes up

and says your headphone volume is too loud. Over the last fucking six days, your headphone volume has exceeded this. And in the UK, you can turn it off. You probably don't, you don't look like you know what I'm talking about. You guys are turning into bitches.

I know, exactly that. You guys need to read. think what's what's going on what's important yeah they um you guys can turn it off but ours we can't so when sometimes about halfway into the tour because obviously the phone has to be on loud i i put it into airplane mode and everything but sometimes halfway through it would just go and then it automatically drops the volume as well oh my god but we don't have we don't have that much samples but yeah Ronnie's been telling me like there's some need that freedom for phone, man, that American phone. You need to get

yourself a. I need to not be using a fucking phone. That's also, yeah, a 13 inch MacBook. Yeah, but now that seems like work. Oh, I've got to have a little desk, set it all up, do all that shit. Do you have one, one logic folder

and that's the whole set? And you just press the space bar and play along to it. Yes. And we have markers in the session where we can, you know, you learn the control and then directional arrow. or whatever, that gets you from one marker to another,

and it's easy live. So wait, you do stop between songs. You don't just press play and go. Oh, that's cool, because I was expecting me this time code thing. I'm going to have to fucking press space bar and just hope for the best for an hour.

No, the time code will, so every, yeah, so every, we're running time code on this last tour. And it tells, like, you could start in the middle of the song and the time code will tell the lights exactly where it is in the song.

You don't have to start it from the beginning. Oh, thank God. Because I was worrying about that. I was just like, I don't want to do that. What if something happens? What if you have to stop the show? It should be that way. There was one tour we did where one person was like,

no, it's going to be from the beginning or something. Turns out it's bullshit. It sounds like they're fucking talking absolute dog shit. Anyway, back on the fucking solo thing, because you didn't answer my question. Does it just come from nowhere? Oh, does it, does it, does it, like, you day one of the tour, it comes from zero?

And then day two, do you elaborate on what you did in day one? So the conventional Western thought is that I will learn paradiddles, and I will learn single-stroke rolls, and I will learn double-stroke roles, and I will learn all these different patterns on the drum set, and I will learn how to orchestrate them differently, and then through that knowledge I will suddenly

be able to put them together in a musical fashion That was how I learned the drums and let me tell you it doesn't Yeah There's a great chasm Between the conventional knowledge And just playing and just doing it

So like the natural players That just learn by ear And just by feel they have a massive advantage and that they can stream from the ether, basically. And they're subconscious. That's basically what you're doing.

But if they don't have the technique jobs, that's only going to go too far. If they don't have the ability to control, they're not well-versed in controlling pattern, basically playing pat, decoding and analyzing that analytical part of your brain, then that's a problem too. because then they can't repeat stuff.

So, like, it's kind of this interplay between what I would say is, like, you know, yin and yang. The masculine is, like, the daytime. It represents convention. It represents structure, like routine, you know, patterns, mathematics, thought processes like that. And then the feminine is represented by night. It's represented by chaos.

It's represented by, yeah, non-structure. And so, like, you need a bit of chaos in music. Like, if everything was structure, then everything would be predictable, basically. Things would just, they would be repeating patterns. And the whole, like, think about it arrangement-wise. What's the bridge in a song? That's the part that almost washes your ear from the verses and choruses you've been hearing and makes it feel different coming back into that chorus

so that it felt coming from a verse. Palet cleanser. Kind of like that. Yeah, dissonance can be the same thing. Like, you can create dissonance. and like either harmonically or rhythmically to make that pocket or make that harmony, that consonants hit and be more effective. So like, I don't know.

When I'm improvising, it's really like, you know, I used to think of patterns and I used to think of what I'm trying to say rhythmically. But now I'm also just thinking like, you know, streaming from the ether, but Also, if my conscious brain has an idea to go, you know, and I know that pattern, then I'm not going to say no. So go with that. Get out of my own way, basically.

And so it's like this constant interplay. And sometimes it's the pattern me and the, you know, that part of my brain, that is activating. And then sometimes it's from like a vocabulary standpoint, like expressing some certain, you know, and it's like,

how am I going to do that? And it's just like, I don't know. I'm just going to go for it. And I probably have the facility to do that. Which came first for you out of those two sides though? Like, or did you always have that balance?

Because for me, I was, the way I was taught and then the way like you said, like your example was, I was just like, well, I was thinking I was smart. I was like, well, I'll just learn all of the rudiments. And that'll be me. That'll be it complete. I learned them all. I was like, okay, but why is everything I do on one? Then I had to develop the vocabulary stuff like using it elsewhere. And when was this that you were developing those patterns?

fucking age i'm talking like when i was 16 or whatever 16 you so you had heard music before that yeah okay well then i would say uh then the part of us that is just streaming from the ether what are we streaming from we're streaming from all the music that we have within us that we've heard and we're going to be shot at expressing it if we've never tried to do do that before or never done it naturally. Like the, naturally, usually the music gets within us. We feel it and then we try to express it, you know, because we love it so much. And so for me, I was like, at a very young age, I was moved by music, like, you know, my dad's blues rock reggae band and, you know, David Lee Roth and, uh, um,

Bob Marley. And like, that's like deep within my soul, you know, but eventually like I was like, oh, I want to play this instrument. I like banging on these drums. And so I started getting taught how to play the drums conventionally. So like, I had this expression. I had this expression within me. I think we all do. It's just learning the discipline of it. Or there's natural people that they just express it naturally. But I kind of think there's a marriage that makes you a super master. You can't be a master without having some sort of discipline, repetitiousness, some sort of obsessive compulsory. Getting the reps in.

Yeah. And also, like, for me, a master is not just someone who's technically learned all this stuff and they can play anything Dave Wechkel can play. They learned Dave Wechle and they, you know, like a 12-year-old that learns, some Asian 12-year-old that learns Dave Weckle. One of your songs. one of my songs when it's like is this a master and it's like no why is it because of their age not exactly no it's because they're you got beef with kid dramas no but i kind of i kind of got

beef for kid drummers well i i think they should it it takes obviously they're trying to do it and they have the commitment to learn something very difficult. But I think at the same time, you're not looking at what makes Dave Weckle so freaking great. It's because he had created his own style and his own way. And otherwise, if he was just some carbon copy of someone else, we'd be talking about these someone else. You know?

So, like, I think in society there's like, oh well I can do this thing so I am that but it's like when we're talking about something creative it's like no there's there's a level of pioneering and a level of individual thought and taste and curating that which is above above master so there's master and then there's creator for me a master has to have that creative element like there's guys I'm not going to name them, but there's guys who are technically very proficient. I'm going to name them. When I listen to them, I do not hear a character.

I do not hear like an individual voice, and I'm not moved. And it's very clean playing. The patterns are there. The discipline is there. The precision is there. But the individuality and the, the there's like got to be a certain grit you know there's like it's like i don't know i know i know exactly human quality or something that i like not necessarily sloppiness but like just at some

point you if you're if you're just learning i mean i'm biased because i've never learned someone else's song in my life other than unless i was getting paid for it like when i joined Australia. There was a previous drummer, like, however long ago it was, seven years ago. There was a previous drummer, but I was getting paid to learn his part, so I learned his parts, but I've never been a, I'm going to, I liken it to like, rena when people build chips inside a bottle. Yeah. Not for me, right? I'm not, I'm not doing that. That's so hyper-specific. But, no, but like, learning a cover note for note, yeah

I'd rather put a fucking chip in a bottle like it's the same thing I'm reading the instructions yeah of how to put the ship in the bottle and all I'm doing is this and eventually I've got the ship in the bottle from the front cover of the thing that's how I view a drum cover

personally yeah you're doing it note for note I'm the same way and watch my transcription sales plummet because it's like well Matt Gar's good doesn't learn anyone else's stuff note for note so why what I've learned. Here's, here's what I'll say too, though.

Yeah, get those sales in now. You know what I'm saying? There's also say, though. There's something... Oh, I'd be steaming legs. They're going to be wrong about it. I'll be stealing some legs. Anyway, carry on.

There's like something to learning still music and a player's expression. You know, I think it's like... Because I learned out of a lot of books, and I think technically it helped me so much and creatively too to be able to analyze things and break them down so that I could then kind

of have my own style but like I do think that it's it's actually really good to you know learn whatever play it's repertoire right so learn whatever players like groove it might be like sissy struck groove or something like that did learn that 77793 11 you know da da da da da da fucking chude scream scream my please yeah I do think that's important

because then we're grounding ourselves in music so but I just I also just listened to music and absorbed it by osmosis I think and then I was also developing technical stuff

to such a high degree that I was able to kind of count balance those two things. You could figure out from listening because you'd done the technical stuff. You could go, oh, I like that. Oh, that's what that is. Yeah.

Eventually, like, yeah, there's things that I would try to figure out by ear. And I couldn't until I started learning these patterns. And then all of a sudden, that's what I was going to get to. Easy to hear. It was, you know what, the, the like lifting the veil, moment for me was and it probably was for you but it was probably when you were like fucking four or something but like

it was groups of three but not in three time so like groups of three over the bar groups of five groups of seven the minute I learned you're talking about groups of three and sixteenth notes as opposed to groups of three and triplets yeah the minute

I unlocked that part of my brain vocabulary got better understanding of what was happening in music I was listening to got better. And then like threes, fives and sevens, I reckon it was,

I reckon I was 20. By the time. Yeah. I had a bad drum teacher. And then I went to music school. Fucking blacked my way into music school when I was like 20. And it was like less than fucking three or something like it should be. And then I was like,

wait a minute. These triplets are straight. And then it was like, It fucking unlocked the most insane part of my brain. Yeah, you were essentially just a guitar player up until that point. Exactly. I give guitar player shit because my girlfriend, I'm surrounded by them. Obviously, I'm a band with two of them.

My dad's a guitar player. My best friend's a guitar player. My other friends, they're guitar players. My girlfriend's a guitar player. And like, so like, yeah. She'll be like, oh, I was playing different, you know, I was playing indifferent. How's using your legs? Different groupings or something like that.

And I'm like, no, you weren't. You were playing different subdivisions, which is not necessarily different. Yeah. Well, you know how much? Constant. How much beef, how much beef that I give to guitar players? This artwork right here looks like a burning church. Look really closely there.

I don't have my glasses. It says guitar shop. Oh. Just a little little secret joke there If you're just listening To the audio of this Fuck you

Because this cost me 4,000 pounds But the Downbeat T-shirt Which is now a lovely disclate With the burning church On it's actually not a burning church It's a guitar shop

I love guitar It was just a little joke I feel like I'm a guitar player At heart But yeah Can you play any other instrument Yeah I can play keys

And bass and guitar But like Not enough to play a gig not to write mastering time for the guitar. Actually, I am working on that. Oh, no. Okay, so... Come on.

I am, because I want to help guitar players improve their time. So, like... This motherfucker. I want to basically, like, I figured out the notation for, like, thumbs and stuff, because, like, with animals, it's like, you know, a bunch of these riffs, like, I've basically come up. with and it's just because I'm I have phrases that have numbers attached that then there's sequences

so it's like you know wait explain this like I'm five because I am fucking five okay so I could essentially be like okay here's a cool way to break up four four you know 16th notes and one measure of four right the 16th notes we'll do three five five three you know And then we could do five three, three, five, you know. And so like then we do five three, three, five. And then, you know, you can sandwich those next to each other. And then that's, you know, I don't know. There's this whole rabbit hole you can start to go down.

And then you start using different groupings and triplets. And so there's like a thump section that are already basically have written. What do you mean thump? Thump, like the technique. Oh, is that what is called? Yeah, when he's like using his thumb. And it's super attacking. I didn't know what it was called.

It's actually a base technique that Wooten came up with. Is it slapping? Is it slapping? Yes, it's basically it's that. But like you have like, well, yeah, slapping is like the down and then a pluck. but this is like down and then you go up with the thumb and then you pluck the other fingers so down up and then index middle ring gives you a group of five da-ka-de-ca-da-da-ca-ta-ta-ta-tick-dick-d-dick-d-d-

wow yeah but don't let me and they don't like to do six because then they got to use their pinky oh that's their like oh i'm sorry you have to use an extra bit of one of the two limbs that you use yeah yeah fuck you guys anyway don't let me derail you what are you coming up with making guitarists. Okay, so there's that section and then there's also, yeah, it's mastering time for guitarists. So it's funny. That is a joke.

I know, but I'm actually trying to, for like a couple years now, but I don't know, I'm going to do it eventually. But like, there's also a section that's based off of double bass. So with double bass, we have all these kick patterns that it's like, well, we want to lead with our right, right? Yeah. And then we'll come up with patterns specifically. yeah

unless your non-dominant foot is actually your dominant foot and you have a brain disease or something yeah anyway you identify as a left foot kick yeah I do you're left foot kick player

but you identify as a right kick player yeah it's bad for me yeah but anyways I'm not even gonna go next we're getting dangerous territory Okay, so basically you'll have like bleed like

and that's a nice pattern because it's one, two, three, four, one to three, four. So you have right left, right, left, right, left, right, left. It's also very easy on guitar because you have a downstroke and an upstroke. So just like we have a right kick and a left kick, they have a downstroke and an upstroke. So like, tig-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-dig-dig-dig-dig. It's very easy for them.

And so it's dig-dik-tig-tig-tig-tig-tig-d-k. So there's these certain... That's both parts of the song. Yeah, exactly. So like there's a lot of patterns like that. Like there's also like, you know, we have like backfifing gazished and you could be like, dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig. And that's like my kick pattern.

That's part of why it's so economical. Your band's so good. I don't want to suck you off too much by your calves and shit, but fuck me your band is good. Carry on. We try. We try. But yeah, we're not for everyone, you know. Shut up.

What? Who hates animals as leaders? Women. Yeah, because it's fucking nerdy. It is nerdy boy music. But guess what? Why don't women like nerdy boys and stuff? But this is the thing.

I feel like that about my podcast where I'm like, it is for everyone. But let me tell you about the metrics. The metrics are telling me is not forever. It's 98.9% men. Yeah. I think more women should be into. drumming should be into technical stuff, but you, you can't write mastering time for women because you'll be fucking cancelled immediately.

Hey guys, I'm coming out with my new instructional book. It's called mastering time for women. I've made it super fucking easy for you, you'd be fucking dead. The, well, I want to get onto the fucking, because I just,

I literally just broke in and was just like, your band's really fucking good. But what I was actually thinking of, the other day, it's like you guys have, you have changed musicians and musicianship and all that shit because the bar is now you guys. Whereas it was, you came out and it was like, okay, this is fucking outlier behavior. And you still are obviously, because you're still killing it. But the whole bar is fucking raised. Like how many, like, like a shitty metal core band in 2003, their breakdown would have been do-a-d-d-gag-dun.

And now a shitty metalcore band's breakdown is groups of five. Like relatively big brain shit. Yeah. Where's the ceiling? Where is it going next? Well, I mean... They've just figured out Quintuplets as well, so you're fucked. Because that was the other thing where it was just like, oh, these bands are like copying animals as leaders, but they haven't figured out.

that you can play five as five as well. And now they are. Who? Just like, Quinn tuplets? Are you talking about groups of five? No, that's different.

So groups of five is what everyone caught onto. Yeah. And now everyone's doing groups of five. Mm-hmm. And for a while, they couldn't figure out, because animals does it a lot where you will be in groups of five, and then you switch to quintuplets.

So it's like, it's as if there's the, sometimes, a couple times. It happens. Tell me it happens. Okay, good. It happens.

Fucking brain dance. Brain dance. I'm a fucking pro. I'm a fan and a podcaster. Right. So, all right. But the fake big brains,

there's call them smooth brains. They figured out the fives, but then brain dance fucked them up because they were like, I don't know what's fucking happening here, but now they're learning the quintuplets. What's next? I think that's good. It's great.

I'm playing it off like it's bad, but I'm. To me, I think we should be progressing. And, you know, there's Serbian wedding music that's in 11 and 17. That's different from the film. Yeah. No, no, that's not. I haven't seen it, but I've heard about it.

I've seen it. I'll die on this hill. It's a good horror film. And that is... I'm not a horror guy. It's horrifying. Anyway, there's Serbian... My brain is horrifying enough.

There's... Hopefully not with the same content as the movie. There is a... Serbian wedding music in what? 17. And that's normal for them. 17. 16 or 178. 1716.

And they dance to it. 176. Yes. And they dance to it. And 11 as well. Digga, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger. Digga, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger, digger, Dicka, diga, tick, tick, fuck that.

It depends on how it's broken up, you know, like it... How are you making 1716 groove? Ask the Serbians. But not the movie, not the film. No. So, I don't know. You know, I think part of this is social, and I think, you know, we, to a degree, we have to open our minds and be more receptive to listening active. and wanting to expand our minds and not just listening to music passively.

I think the passive listening to pop music is a, and the radio is a huge, because most of the radio is passive. It's just on. Smooth brain, shit. It's in the background. It's background music when you're studying and you're doing stuff. It's like,

that's not the way I experience. When I put music on, like, I listen to it. I'm a captive audience. And when people are trying to, show me music and they're talking over it. I'm like, yo, what are you?

Shh. Let me listen. You know, what are you doing? Like, are you trying to show me this music? Well, then shut the fuck out. So what? Are you like allocating listening time? Or you just mean when you like, I'm going to listen to this record, you will just sit and listen to it.

Like art too. It's like, oh. Don't look around here for art. We're in an Airbnb. Oh, well, if it, if it's just up on the walls and it's just like super passively something. Yeah. So like... I'm not really experiencing it at a glance.

But you can't... Yeah, exactly. But can you look at that and, you know, analyze it and sit there and have it like... Resonate. Yeah. Do something to you. You know, I think that those are the great artists, the great painters that we talk about. It's funny you say that because two days before this coming here, I went to an art gallery in Scotland.

I haven't been to an art gallery since you would go like at school. And I was at school I was too busy thinking about smoking weed. So like I didn't care, but I went and it's the one, it's in Scotland. And it has the Salvador Dali crucifixion painting where it's like Christ above the earth. And it's like in its own room. The room is dark. I don't think I've seen that one. Oh, bro.

It's fucking sick. Simon, can we pop that up there and I'll get it up for you right now? Or just search for it while I'm talking So it's in its own room And the room has like mood lighting And I went in and it was just like My fucking asshole started tingling Like I don't know what

It was like it was like almost You know when something freaks you out Like if I see a this is weird If I see like a fucking centipede Like even when you said the word centipede earlier My assholes started tingling Like closed up like don't go in here But it was that same feeling

And it was like all I was like I've got chills and I was just looking at this fucking paint. Have you got it? I think so. It's like, um... No. It's not, man.

I'm going to get it. I'm getting out for you. Simon's already, hopefully put the right one up in Dali Christ. It's called Christ of St. John of the Cross. It's a pretty fucking crazy name. It's this. What? Yeah.

Have you got it? I think I haven't now. Let me see. Just check that you've got it. You've got the right guy. That's the guy. And it's huge, right? And it's in its own darkened room with a nice frame.

And it was, it did something to me. And I was like, I'm an art guy. Then you're thinking about the history and thinking about when he painted it and all this stuff and what's going through his head. and how on earth this man had never seen a suspended Christ above the earth and that came from his brain

creativity so we're kind of talking about you know groups of five and all this kind of technical stuff in music and I think that's good but there's also a spirit to art that we have to imbue

we our humanity is not just zeros and ones our spirit is it's the part of you that transcends an algorithm should be right yeah um and when you look at a piece like that it's like salvador dali has some trippy stuff and if he were just a technical painter and only thought in those he would paint apples and he would paint landscapes and you know he wouldn't be painting melting stuff and shit all sorts of weird stuff then you are you know what we've just i feel like you're the salvador dali of the drum world my friend whoa get yourself a little mustache i think i can be trippier though you think you be trippier than salvador dally i mean you're already fairly fucking trippier than what i am right now you i mean i'm surprised you're not wearing tie-dye i'm trying to

open myself up to not being bound by technical and convention. How are you doing? And trying to understand my own playing before I play something. I'm just trying to open myself up to allowing myself to play and jam more and just freely express

and not question and analyze. Because when you get really good at that, it becomes compulsory. And you want to do that. Technically, analyze stuff all the time. There's no, there's no ceiling,

because you'll never play it completely perfect. So it's like diminishing returns at some point. With like straight fucking, I'm just trying to get really good at this rigid section of music. Yeah. You can come pretty dang close. And there's guys who really, it seems like they have.

They have perfect timing, but doesn't mean I want to listen to them or enjoy listening to them. And also, it brings me on to my next topic, excellently. And also how much of this perfect timing is really perfect. And how much is it is people fucking quantizing their drum videos? How do you feel about, how do you feel about quantizing drum? Let's do this. I think it's a lie. It's like, you know, that's why I, like, you know, that's why.

like that you have like the natty or not type thing but for drummers you know because it's like yeah we should like it's kind of like the beauty standards thing where it's like a hundred that's how I sold have the have these photos that are highly doctored and they're like oh this is just me and it's like that's not though and it's bad for everyone else because they hold themselves to the standard that's created by a computer and they can't ever replicate that so they end up fucking, you know, look at him getting seated. You're getting see

you fucking move. Well, okay, so you're going to come in hot here. When I first heard, like the first, when I heard the animal's first record, I was like, holy shit. This drummer has the most perfect timing I've ever

heard in my life. And meanwhile, it was program drums. I didn't know that. So guess what I started doing? I started drilling stuff like to be perfect. Like just like two hands, two feet, four hands,

four feet, like just different patterns. And like, you know, all sorts of different patterns. Just trying to get absolutely as perfect as I could. So in a way that naivety brought me fruit. Close to being the machine. Yeah. But at the same time,

Um, yeah, I think it's, it's disingenuous for people to, um, post videos and, and edit and sample replays. Especially video, like audio, there is a, there is, albums have always, not always, but since the 90s or the early 2000s, you know, but it's like, it's got to be perfect, whatever. The average consumer that only hears radio songs or even dance songs, they don't know it, but they are programmed to hearing perfect metronomic time. So if you don't edit on a record, people will think the record is worse than it actually is because it's real. Meanwhile, the records from the 70s, 80s and 90s sound great with natural feel and no click. So it's like, okay, this is patently false. We've just been, for whatever reason, conned into because it's easier for the producers and workflow for them to replace stuff later on. That's basically what it is.

is. But if I could have it my way, it's like, I don't want any samples on my shit. Don't put samples on my shit. And don't, I don't want it edited in the sense that I'm making micro edits. It's like, yes, I'll do a comp where I play through the song 10 times and I might use the verse from, you know, the second time I played through and then the chorus from the third time. And maybe it's like, here's these two measures that I grab. Like, basically I want it to, feel as perfect as it can feel. It doesn't always look perfect. That's what editors and fucking producers and even like drummers when they're recording themselves. It doesn't look nice on the grid. So then they start going, well, I'll just nudge this one. And now this one's out.

No, I'll just nudge this one. And then it ends up you've got a flat performance. The way that we're perceiving time is not actually grid-based. It's more wave-like. Like, you can rush a fill and land and then slow down. And it feels better than if you never moved from the grid. And I think that's naturally how we like to hear music because there's some excitement. There's some push.

You can actually create more tension. like I've been listening to this cat Yamandu Costa and he's a love that you used the word cat by the way so jazz there's I'm gonna listen to this cat

Javier turned me on to these cats these cats these are these my dogs right here you know what I'm saying I'll be here all day Hamilton de Hollanda as well and it's called Luz de Aurora

I don't know if you can see that, but... I'll have Simon pop it up. Yeah, this album is freaking incredible. And... What's the genre? It's two classical guitars. Really? But it's folkloric Latin.

It's like... It's not... Just freaking out. It's not white... It's not white. Western... Yeah. Classical.

Like, dry dick. For lack of better words. It's not that. It's like, it's got... There's flavor, there's, there's feeling, there's spicy. Yeah, and they'll like, certain parts, they get fat. They're still in tune with each other, like, to a degree where it's like, wow, you guys are basically the same person. But they'll speed up just ever so slightly, but it creates tension.

And then they'll slow down on parts that are like dynamically softer too. and it's like, this, it was like, elicits more of an emotional response. Yeah, like actual, like a score or something,

they're no on a fucking click. You got John Williams up there going, make it a little bit slower. No. Kind of sick. Yeah, it should be like that. I feel like that might be what separates animals,

even when people are like, animals to the band, not meow and dogs. Cats, fuck me, I forgot the word cat there. Even though we were saying it. But I think that's what separates is like maybe your,

correct me if I'm wrong, animals is going more down. Because obviously like you said, the first album's program drums, very, very gritty. Yeah. Then you join and it becomes more of a band flowing. And every record gets flowier and flowier.

In my opinion. I still think, you know, so like, Joe of motion was, you know, heavily sampled. replaced.

Really? Yeah. Yeah, you can hear it. And it was like quantized. And it's like sometimes it's like, you know, you actually stole some feeling and you got B for Nolly. You got Nolly. Well, he didn't edit it.

They sent it out. At the time, I was like, you know, in the band for a couple years. And they're like, oh, we're setting it to this guy. And I'm like, is he, you know, going to like retain some natural feel? and they're like, yeah, but no, he quantized it. And it's like... I would not like that. Madness of Many was not sample replaced at all.

I did comp it and made, edited it myself. And then the newest one, obviously the live one is live. There's no edits. But like, the newest one, it was edited. but like I was there throughout the process and I and I was more than any other project like okay we'll get this more to the grid but like I was also like you know doing it with uh Nick Moorzov who who was doing it with Javier and I was like don't edit that just leave that like basically that was like I wanted more stuff left alone but they ended up sample

replacing a bunch of stuff too and it's like That's why I do the play-throughs because I want 100% live unquantized, unsampled drums that this is how I think the record should sound. The only time that I noticed... At least drum-wise.

The only time I noticed a difference where I noticed, I guess, either sampling or maybe you just played it differently on the playthrough is I think Red Meiso's got the blasting section. and there's a bit on your play-through of it where you put a group of five in the blast beat but it's not on the record

do you even know what I'm talking about you go like there's a five in there you don't even know you don't even know what I'm fucking talking about no it might have been it might not have been 100% perfectly played oh no no it's definitely you're in

the intention oh you're talking about dig dig dig dig that dig that You're talking about microaggressions? No, I don't think I am. Is there a blast in Red Miso? Before it goes, bam, is that Red Miso? Yes.

Yeah, the blast before that on the play-through, there is like a group of five. Maybe I think the left hand is playing a group of five in the blast league. Get, get, get, get, get, get. It's doing something. Get, get, get that. That would be four. No, it's not.

It's a weird. Watch your fucking video back, bro. You are doing a odd group in the fucking left hand while a blast piece is happening. I don't know if maybe you did it by accident, but it's not on the record, but it's fucking sick. Yeah. Well, some dynamics get like kind of messed with.

Yeah, that made me think maybe there was some sampling. Yeah, maybe there was some sampling. And that's one thing I really don't like is like, you know, yeah, I'm going like, I'm going like, So there's like a, my right hand's going, like, tat, dat, tat, tat. On that little stack. And I want that to be heard.

But like, it's not heard as much on the record. And the difference between, I don't know, left hand stuff is different as well. Obviously. I mean, it was a compliment. but it's when I noticed that maybe there's a little bit of sampling on the record. Every record has a bit of sampling. The last stray record we actually got away. There's only two sections where the snare has been sampled,

and it was just where there was a slower section. And we wanted a beefier snare, so we put like a fucking extra snare underneath the snare. But that's the first stray record that's had almost no sampling. But let me fucking terrible. And my shit's nowhere near as hard as yours. But it was just, also I tracked it with a broken back

that was difficult but like it I had to do it it was punch you got a backie out of me it was fucking it was punch in central because we were trying to not use samples and it fucking murdered me because it was just like I'd streamed the whole

thing on Twitch because I wanted people to see the recording process and people fucking roasted me because they're used to watching these quantized sample replaced drum play through videos where they think that guy just played a whole white chapel song and it sounded like the record and that's because the guy didn't play the fucking song like the record it's all fixed and it's all fucking edited so when i'm punching

in like that's also a different process like you know when do you write the song and then you track it like how long do you have to like drill the song it's you know it's not a crazy amount of time no not at all some of the songs in the straight songs we wrote in the studio and i'm tracking in five days after that. So it's like, I don't know the song. But like trying to keep, trying to do no samples was, I was doing maybe eight bars at a time for a lot of it. Yeah.

And people were roasting me in the chat like, oh, this guy's bad at the drums. He has to keep stopping. And it's because of this fucking fake beauty aesthetic. Yeah. Where they were like, like, I could have played three whole playthrus of the song, rough comp quantized slap samples on it would have sounded fucking amazing but yeah i like to think i'm an

artist i'm trying to push myself yeah you're pushing yourself as well that's that's a different thing i want to come away from it proud as fuck i don't want to come away from it imposter syndrome i don't know if you've ever done it but when i first started on youtube like when i was fucking young and everyone was doing it i edited a quantized and i fucking tamble replaced my drum so that's why i know how fucking easy it is to do and how easy it is to fucking trick people. There's like three videos on my YouTube old ones, heart machine play throughs. And I fucking quantized them and I fucking tarbill replaced the fuck out of them. Because that's how I know it's fucking easy to do.

But like the imposter syndrome I got after that was so bad because everyone was like, I love this video. And in my head I was like, I know what it sounded like before it got fixed. And it was fucking, you know, 90% there. But definitely wouldn't have got the acclaim that it did had I left it unedited. Yeah. It buns me out, bro. And I try and fucking, I try, like, the Natty or Not drum videos.

Like, I really try to educate people with it. Like, slow it down, do this, do all this shit. And still, there's people that either want to be tricked or I just, I don't know, are just so oblivious. You're just hating because you're not this good. and I'm like, motherfucker. They're probably, they're not pro drummers.

I mean, they play drums for fun. And so they're not really that skilled. They don't, you know, it's surprising to me here in Nashville how many drummers have no idea how to like work logic and pro tools. Really? Yeah. Yeah, they just play drums. They're just analog.

Yes. analog guys. Yes, bro. Like, there's a lot of musicians out there like that. And so, like, not everyone is educated in this way. And, you know, it's a whole other thing to, it's a whole other discipline to learn about. And but ultimately, you know, the craft in its purest form is a drummer playing either live. or playing in a studio with mics and, you know, there's compression, there's EQ,

but there's no sample replacing. There's no quantizing. There's no meddling with it afterwards. What you got is what you got. The only meddling is, oh, I'm going to raise the overhead level a little bit, or I'm going to, like, balance the tom's out, you know? And there is a lot you can do. Like, I've only realized from, like, Nollie's obviously,

Nolly is so unhappy with joy of motion But like There is with the correct engineer And correct compression and correct EQ And like You can it can sound sample replace Like it can fucking definitely be done I know my my I sent logic my

Logic I sent fucking Nolly my Twitch stream Just the logic file And he put all the fucking plugins on And then he sent me back Oh how do you think this sounds And I just immediate was like Why did you put samples on it And he was like, I didn't put samples.

And then I took that logic session, plugged it in. And I sat at my kit. And I was like, oh, my God. This is fucking great. I can hear every single ghost note. Like, it can be done without fucking, it's just laziness. I'll put samples on it. I don't want to figure out the compression ratio for the bottom snare mic

when I can just add a fucking 80 velocity snare instead. It's also the discipline of sample replacing as far. and wide right now. And that's a lot of, that's how a lot of producers are learning to mix drums is with samples. So then when they get,

yeah, yeah, they're mixing superior drums for everything that they're doing. And then they get a real drummer and they're like, oh, well, there's a bunch of bleed in these tom mics. Well, yes. Yes, that's real life. Of course, yes.

And they don't know how to deal with bleed, basically, is what it is. So they were just fucking jazz up. Yeah, you gotta kind of get a guy who is from old school who knows all the vintage KM84 Neumann mics to use are the U-67s or the, you know, the 414s or what, you know, the C-4-14s or whatever. They're on my list.

They're all right. I want them for room mics. They're on my list, but they're so fucking expensive. Craig. Yes, Craig. You are looking, you're glowing on this podcast. You're looking fresh. You're looking clean. You're looking like your immune system supported by your daily dose of vitamin C and selenium and folate and zinc and all those sorts of things. How have you done that? Well, it's from our newest sponsor, Athletic Greens. I take one scoop of AG1 by Athletic Greens every day of my life. It is a concentrated blend. of 75 different ingredients, minerals, it's got vitamins, it's got stress adaptogen extracts, it's got probiotics and prebiotics. I take one scoop of it every morning, 250 milliliters of water. Side note, it low-key forces me to have a cup of water in the morning, but it tastes great.

It tastes way better than normal, boring water. It makes me feel good. If I don't take it, I notice this sounds like an insane plug, but I'm actually serious. I wouldn't have said yes to the plug, otherwise. If I don't take it, I notice it. Not immediately, maybe like two or three days later. I sort of notice feeling a little bit sluggish. Maybe my bowel movements aren't so great. I also take the travel packs with me on tour. It saves a lot of hassle with customs, a lot of hassle with a million different pills and the people at the airport are like, what are these? Because you definitely look like you take drugs. I just show them the pack now. I don't even have to, but imagine this is a hypothetical thing. They look at the box.

That looks branded, but not in that weird way that weed does branding. Look at the box, bish-bash-bosh, away you go. I love the fact that gets delivered straight to my door, no faffing around at GNC or any of those places. First time I took it, forgot to have a coffee. Now guess what? I have a coffee later in the morning. I have my AG1 first, and then I do all my business.

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It's going to be good. We can turn this off. It's going to be done correctly. We can turn this off and talk about it afterwards. Yeah. We probably got a lot to talk about that. Fuck you guys, you can't hear it. The reason I feel okay morally doing it is because like,

cats can't always hire me to write music as well. Exactly. And I use program bass all the time to play and practice to. And I write stuff on key. and I put it in and then I edit it and I line it up so it's like pretty much perfect or whatever and then I play to it I use it as a practice slash writing tool and I don't see why guitar players would do anything different and also it can get your if you if you are a band with no budget it's fucking like a look at animals as leaders first record fucking

programmed. Sounds great. You can improve from there. Costs zero dollars. Costs zero or however imagine if we both have plugins to plug right now it would be so perfect. Costs $199 for fucking use code down big.

But like it can get you so far but I really think when your band gets to that level you should be thinking like yes it might cost a little bit more but let's let's fucking put our money where our mouths are and use some real drums.

Not only do you employ a drummer who is out of work, but you're also employing an engineer. So I was actually, with Joy of Motion, they were talking about programming drums and I was like, No, I would have fucking, we wouldn't be friends. No, I was like, hey, I will pay for the recording. And they're like, well, you keep, we don't, uh, and I'm like, that's how bad I want, it's, it should be me. You didn't, it should be me. No, I didn't because... They're like...

Because that's... That's not right. Yeah. That's not right. That's not right. But that's the degree to which I'm going to go to have it be me. It should be, you know? If Joy of Motion was programmed drums, no offense, but your career would be like way further back than it is now.

That album came out and every... Nolly sent me a video when you were in the studio recording Joy Motion because it was... I didn't know who you were. It was like you're coming out of the gate record. Nolly sent me a video from inside. I don't like you had all the extra dries on or whatever. Fuck those guys. But they, you had like, and he sent me a video and it was like,

you need to see this drummer. And then he sent me video and I was like, oh my God. I don't even remember what part it was. But if that had been programmed drums, you'd have been waiting until was Manus and Many after that. Yeah, 2016. And you, you, by 2016, you were a fucking household name in drumming. And that, when you would have been set back, when was Joy Motion?

2014. Yeah, they'd set you back two years, bro. Yeah. Hmm. Well. Thank God, you kicked up a fucking stink. Yeah. No, and, yeah, that was, that first record was a, yeah, was a difficult one to come to a, uh, a, uh, uh,

compromise on you know do you not like it nolly doesn't like the mix everyone i've spoke to is kind of just a bit weird about it i love it yeah no when i listen back i'm i'm like okay yeah i would like it to sound more natural it's it's over compressed you know you know i really hoped was going to happen but i understand not when it was the fuck i guess it would be 15 years from the self-titled or is it 10 2009 was the self-thold It was fucking ages ago. Yeah, so when it was 10 years, I was hoping to God. I mean, you did the live album, which is cool,

but I was hoping to God, like, I can retract one with you playing drums. I'd suck someone's fucking dick, clean off their body. Line up toasting, line up, toasting, line up Havier, I'll do them both to get that. That would be required because they would have to retract their guitars because we don't have the stems from that record. We have like, I'm good.

I'm good. I'll be there all day. Synth, but like, yeah, it would, everything would have to be retracted. But the fact,

for now it's just live. I love it. I love the live record. That's how actually I found out about Ronnie, because I think I posted it. Ronnie does sound for Australia now. I, shout out Ronnie on.

I heard the live record. And I was super stoked to hear you on the, because I hadn't seen you play with animals. I don't think to hear you on like tempting times. and shit on shit like that. Yeah. And then I put it on and I went, oh, like a literally beaming smile.

I was like, this is unedited. This is a live album. This is. And then the mix was fucking sick. Like, nice live mix. It's good to be able to play the shit live and still resonate with people and not. Because some of these records, they're so synthesized and, you know, put together by held together by production.

Yeah. And, you know, false fronts that, you go to hear them live and you're like, yeah, no, that doesn't. No, that's not right. Yeah. We're big on that as well. Go see Mushuga live and they will knock your balls straight off. Bro, let me, let's do a Musugger tangent.

Let's do a Musuggar tangent one now because we just played three shows of Musugger. They're, I think, they're a PED. Like when you're lifting, like I literally the other day, I was like in my gym and I'm like, yo, this shit, I can't. What was the song? Do you remember? I don't know, man. Oh, I thought you were listening to Mishoga.

No, no. It's just the gym music that they play is like very estrogenic and it's like, you know, cock rock or butt rock or butt cock rock. We walked into that gym this morning and it was literally that fucking band trapped and I was like, oh my God. They played Disturb twice. They played Spine Shank twice. Yeah. So, like, I put on my sugar and then instantly I was like, and I did the same for my girlfriend too.

Like, I'm like, she's like, oh, I'm going to try to lift this. And I'm like, put this on. Put this on. And she hit her PR. Yeah. It's fucking, it fucking works. My one, my Musugger one is born in dissonance. It's a relatively new one, but there's that one bit.

Whereas the most simple part in the song is after all the dun, da, dun, da, dun dun dun, there's just one bit where. it just doesn't open out of like it's like a fucking out of a bridge section and it just goes and it's fucking even now i'm like it opens up yeah i'm like it opens up yeah we did these three shows when we're sugar number one not my place to say but he did say he wouldn't come on the podcast so i'll fucking say whatever i like number one you know like before this and we'll get into it i was telling matt that i got a problem with my fucking right for it i'm just shit with my right foot met thomas start talking within three fucking seconds he starts

telling me he's got problem with his foot and it's really annoying him and then i was just like this is the master with the same neuroses as me and then when i start talking to you and you're like i got that with my left foot i'm like we are all humor and people we're struggling man i love people would love to hear that but I then had it like an interaction with him it was like one interaction the whole three days and I kind of just was like

I don't think that guy likes me and it was horrible I don't think I was punishing or anything I was just trying to be fucking their press agent is a friend and they had asked him if you wanted to do the podcast on these shows and he said no and that's why I came up to him and I was like just letting you know like it's cool

we need to the podcast whatever but I was real friendly, not over friendly, not punishing. But I came away from it like, I don't think this guy likes me. They're very reserved. It was horrible. They're not like, I don't think any of them are extroverted. I just don't think I'm good enough at the drums. Until alcohol is involved.

For him to be friends with me. Yeah. You've done my sugar thoughts. Maybe he'd get drunk together in it. Yeah, but he wouldn't. I don't think he was drinking. I got drunk, all the texts, I got drunk with all the texts. They're the fucking best.

Yeah. hanging out. Jimmy. Like, Jimmy was the coolest. We're showing me all the fucking Huck stuff. Thomas Huck's pedal set up.

He's got an interesting pedal. He's the one drummer that can get away with playing with gloves. That I'll be like, okay. Doesn't he only have one gloves? And Mario. Mario and...

Do you know my glove story? Mm-mm. Not like that. It's not a sexual one, sadly, this time. My love glove? My love glove. Yeah, you know my gloves

that I put on? Before I line up, too, dudes from animals as leaders to blow them to get fucking tempting time with Matt on it. No, I, I looked at Mario and I looked at fucking Brad Wilk back in the day. And I was like, I'm going to be, it was post-pandemic. It was the first tallback for post-pandemic. And I was like, I'd had like a divorce glow-up of myself. Like I died my fucking hair and shit.

And I was like feeling myself. And I was like, I'm going to be a glove drummer. I'm going to be shirt off. No. I'm going to be shirt off gloves guy. Something someone should never consciously pursue. Right. But I was like, you know what?

I'm going to do it. I'm going to come out. Like, I'll put a bit of timber on me. I'm going to come out the gate. Post-pandemic, glow up. Gloves. Shirt off gloves. I'm going to look fucking like some kind of Russian.

You're freaking out. I didn't think to myself, maybe I should try this in the practice room first. I went straight in on gig one with gloves First block It's four songs in a row without stopping Played two bars And I'm sweating inside the glove

It's a whole different way of playing Playing the drums I had no feel, no finesse I couldn't do anything And I had to play like it for four fucking songs It was hell Don't know how they do it or why they do it Feels horrible

Yeah very hard hitting gloves should be done hitting very hard I hit I think I know bro yeah I know just I'm not saying

yeah I don't and you shouldn't want any finesse if you're going to be using gloves yeah that's the that's the issue but it was I was annoying because I was like I think I look kind of cool oh my God yeah let me just get a fish net

cropped up to go along with this and something I could do it. And then, you know, I'm still in my head. Like, what about fingerless gloves? Maybe I'll try fingolus gloves. But I just want to, I want to bring something. Carter Beaufort can get away with the team.

He's got a golf gloves. He's got the golf gloves. Under the table and drumming on VHS. Yeah. That was a fucking game changer for me. Yeah. I used to fucking love all that. I had some music DVDs.

So, what were you saying about Thomas's pedals? He uses trick pedals, right? No, not now. I mean, if you used... He had Dynosynx, Tama ones, but... Hold on, are those the... Direct drive, but he'd modded them, and he had chains on Dinosynx. And then he had it, he had like grip tape and shit on it.

It was fucking crazy. Crazy weird setup. Aren't those footboards long? They are long, yeah. I realized, I was using the MCD. D-D-D-D-D-W. The DW, yeah. Well, it wasn't direct drive, it's chain drive.

But it's the same. MD-D would be machined direct drive. Right, okay. MCD is machine-chain drive. One of the holes in it? Yeah. But I realized, well, I was using them for a while and I was very happy, but then, I don't know. I'm having these feet problems.

I'm like, what is going on? and I realize part of it is those longer footboards allow for less leverage basically. Really? Yeah, so the 9,000, I'm back on the 9,000s, which have shorter footboards, like regular-sized footboards, and I can come straight from my high hat and hit the first hit with my left foot foot. onto the double pedal and it'll higher because yeah then you know what and there's like a point in the middle where it's like this is perfect and it's like those two inches that are just like and that point is lower on a longer footballed yes the perfect point yeah and there's not as much

like it's it would be the amount that would be the sweet spot would be longer what um Wait, on the long board. Yes. Wouldn't that be nicer, a sweet spot that's longer? No. You look like I just shit on the floor, right? No, this fucking smooth brain motherfucker. No, I don't, I don't, whatever's going on and has been going on, I've been trying to figure it out.

And like, I've been doing all these sort of things to figure it out. And the complete opposite of the Zen stuff we talked about in the intro. Just letting it, just going with it. Because, like, at a certain point, you're like, no, there is a problem. And, like, even weighing my beaters, you know. What is you using? I'm using the MCD pedals beaters. What do they look?

Let me pop these up. Yeah, they're kind of funny looking. I hate the DW beaters, the regular ones. Those ones are two. They're like 100 grams or like 100. 10 grams. I thought you were joking about weighing them.

No, I'm dead serious, bro. What weight you got? 70. What are you using the coffee scale for this? Yeah. Love it.

Love it. So like the Tama woodbeaters, the Iron Cobra Tama wood beaters, were actually sick for me. Those are like the perfect weight. Do you know, have you ever tried the trick ones? They're flat as fuck ones.

No. So I, but they look. Are they the ones that have like a, it's like a rod? No, no, no, no, that's the Axis ones. The trick, the trick ones, I played and I'm a Tamar guy through and fucking through, but I did get a pair of direct drive. I got a pair of the, I basically wanted to copy the Thomas Harg thing,

get the dinasynx and then try and put the chains on them. But that was born out of like, I'm, I was super happy with my speed cobras, but then I sat down on Matt, who plays drums for a band, end, fucking unbelievable drummer like rim shot blast beats at like fucking 250 he's crazy but he was shout out Matt he was playing 9000s

with these trick beaters and I sat on his kit and I was just like this is sorry but this is the best pedal I've ever sat on my fucking goddamn life it was fucking nuts the trick beaters are definitely worth a little I'll try him um I'm looking at these MCD.

I'm down to try anything at this point. These look pretty similar in like size the way the beater is. Let me find a picture of them. You don't need to pull this up, Simon. We're just fucking talking about beat a shit. There's a couple of guys beating off. Trick drum beaters. Beating off about their feet.

Beating off. Oh, no, it's not. Okay. It is the pro the... Maybe it's a dominator one? No, it's not. Oh, those actually, those beaters look great. Which ones do you look at it at?

The trick ones. Yeah, but I've just pulled one up and it looks like a fucking tennis ball. It's not that one. No, and it's not. It's like, it looks a lot like the ones that are on the MCD or M. Kind of seems like maybe. This one? Yeah, that one.

It kind of seems like DW knew, like, tried those and knew they were good. I'm like, oh, let's just make that. They were, on a pair of 9,000's, just a straight 9,000, not the X-F. it was fucked up how good they felt and how good they sounded bro because they're just machine metal they sounded like honestly that's kind of what i'm looking for right now the you're welcome the felt stuff is i'm not feeling those i i like wood or something hard you know that's not what i was saying crav it was too easy yeah the wood ironed kairo ones were sick as fuck but I don't know why on, I guess it's so you could swap them out for like the plastic one or the felt one.

But like the fact that it was rotatable was dumb as fuck because like you would have a show where. Well, they have a black thing in them, right? Black circle. Yeah. If you got different Tama beaters, they had red. And the red ones were nerled. And so there was grip on those. so I would replace those.

I'd put the red gripped ones with the wood. Isn't it some one wing? You've got to do all this shit. Every company has this stuff. Just make the best. You'd think. But, yeah. No, it's kind of like Apple with the different attachments and, you know.

Just, do you know what, though? Fucking air tags, bro. They saved my life. We wouldn't have had any of this. because I was at the airport and they were like yeah your bag isn't here it's not on the phone I was like my bag is 0.09

kilometers from my location right now I can show you and then I showed the woman on the map and she was like oh that's in the uh that is the baggage place and I was like can you get someone to get it and then they got someone to get it wow he really tried to do you like that yeah thanks Steve jobs fucking sick

although I had to someone put an air tag i was being tracked with an air tag at one point you've ever been in the vicinity of an air tag that isn't yours yes it alerts you it alerts you so there was it was after i moved house i moved apartment i had an air tag moving with me back and forwards from my house to my new house and then it was from my house to my studio so it was either on i think people that helped me moved. The people that helped me move saw something that they wanted to steal.

Because they knew that I was going from my studio to pick up equipment. And I was storing stuff at my studio in between the house move. And it was in my car or something. I don't know. I could never find it. And it was always there.

I sold the car in the end. Still with the air tagging. Yeah, because it was just like, I don't know what's fucking going on. That was your solution to the problem? My car was... You were just going to sell it anyways. It was on its last fucking legs anyway.

And also the podcast popped off. I bought a new car. There's probably a device that can sense those trackers. Where they are. I mean, yeah, but you could do it. Electronics. You know what the funny thing is? And I have to apologize to my girlfriend here because it was,

you could make an air tag, make a noise if it's not yours. So like, say I put an air tag on me. you right now secretly. I'm not going to. And when you go in me. When you go or in you just before we talk about retracking that first album, I, and you go home

and your phone pops up, Ila's an air tag traveling with you. You can make it make a noise. But if you're with the person that owns the air tag, but if you're with the person that owns the air tag,

it won't make the noise. It will just alert the other person. I was trying to make this air tag making noise, and it wasn't making a noise. And I was like, it's you. You're tracking me. You think I'm going off doing stuff.

So your train ends up, it wasn't like, it was fucking, I'm just probably in my car or something. But it was like, I was paranoid, bro. Hmm.

It's like, he's motherfucker. Someone's tracking. Yeah. No, that's not a good feeling. Yeah, I would be searching high and love.

Yeah, it was fucking bad. Just sort of, but in fact, it was like, I gave up and then I sold the car. and it disappeared and I was like oh it was in my car interesting

some alien shit probably just some thieves probably thieves yeah no aliens just just thieving and they didn't thief anything but I wonder what it was that they saw and I like that because I was maybe it was you they wanted maybe but they don't have an album

not only retract and that is my sexual price and there's not many let me compliment your band, there's not many people that I'm taking multiple loads to the mouth in order to retract. I'm honored.

I think it, could I even, can I even think of another one? I don't, maybe, maybe I would take it for them to remix Gore by Death Tones. But still, I don't think, I think I would take one for that.

You ever listen to Gore, the album, Gore? Oh, thanks. Was it, an, early one? No, second to last. Oh, okay. The mix is,

I'm not one of those guys that is like, oh, the mix ruined it, but the mix fucking ruined it. That sucks, because usually they have great drum sound, guitar sound. I think that's the only reason it really affected me.

It's like, you can't go from what you normally have to that. At least ease me in. Like, Gojira eased us into their, like, more raw production sound. They, like,

ramped it up. up way of all flesh the greatest metal mix of all time iMO and then they went slightly more raw and then slightly more raw and then now they're wherever they are but you can't come you can't go from fucking like white pony digital bath right actual bath analog bath yeah you can't go from digital bath they're analog bath that's like the crowned jewel for all sound guys yeah it's fucking they play that To the point, it's annoying as fuck, isn't it? No. Because I love that song.

Oh, he's the best. I love the drum mix that much. I love the, everything feels perfect. Yeah. I mean, it's fucking crazy. I'd love him on the fucking podcast. I'd love to sit that motherfucker down. Yeah, I'd love to listen to that.

Abe, what's up, brov? But you know what? Do it. Yeah, I won't fucking... Now I think, not to go on about me, because this is a podcast about you. I'm just checking the cameras. Everything's still rolling.

But like, the switch to super fucking movie has been helping with like, like I hit fucking Cannibal Corpse. I was like, you want to come to podcast? I was like, here's an episode. And then they go, yes. And then they come and do it. And then this episode is going to smash. I've got no fucking doubt. It's a smasher.

I hope so. Hope so. And because of that, we're going to, I don't even want to do this to just actually sell your shit. But like, let's talk about, let's talk about this, your left foot problem that I'm having a right foot problem. Just a little bit. Yeah. And then how are you fixing that? So, just talk me, talk me for him.

Because this is, this is, what is it called when they, they're like, when you see, it's like a fucking chip in the armor or something. Oh, a chink in the armor. Yeah. Yeah. Because you look from afar, like, oh, this guy's just got everything on fucking, this guy's playing max settings, ultra HD, maxed out nightmare mode. Yeah, everyone's human. Everyone has some drawback, even the grades.

But yeah, one of mine is definitely my left foot because I do so much right foot stuff. stuff. Like so much, I don't know. I want the ability to shed and rip on one foot and like not need double bass. But then I also want to be able to play some crazy double base stuff. So of course my left foot is weaker. And so I'm basically trying to have my right foot teach my left foot in a sense. And like I'll do motions that are like the slide motion. Doom, do you practice the slide motion? Like, is there, like, if you were teaching a complete fucking beginning, because if my leg technique, foot technique, I am completely. In a more like, like, calf raise position.

Yeah, see, that's, I've never played like that. Yeah, you start there and that's, and you kind of hit with an ankle, I guess. And then you drop the leg down and that's where the leg hit. Wait, so like this, like this. Watch this on video, you fucking idiots listen to it. Like that? Or what? Is that stroke one?

Like this? Almost, yeah. Well, teach me properly. Even higher. Even higher like that? Yeah, that's the first thing. I'm on my fucking toes. This is what it would be.

This kind of jump in rabbit motion is the first one. Dum, don't, dum, don't, do. Like the samba is a good one to work on that. Where are you like... Are you thinking toe hip? You're getting rid of the cans? We're doing. You're getting up a sweat from that?

Fix my... Oh, right. Before you're working up a fucking sweat from like four fucking hits. So this motherfucker. Look at that flex! You look fucking yoked, brother. Thank you. It's a work in progress.

It's pretty good right now. Yeah. you look fucking jacked. Lost some weight. So, fucking lean. What was you? No, I'm still on this fucking ankle thing. You don't have to teach me, teach me right now. But like, how are you then applying that to your left foot? Like, what's the, what's the exercises?

You're going through your own single put pedal lesson? Because I fucking love that lesson. Yeah, I've done that. That's one tactic is like, take all these right foot patterns that you would play with your single pedal, your right pedal, play it with the left. And basically have your left foot lead. um the other approach i'm taking um it's always multifaceted because i don't know that not everything's going to stick and sometimes it's like cumulative like it takes

multiple things to change your the what i don't know your technique basically so i'm working on swivel to some degree not hugely I'm also working on like just ankle so just like if I wasn't in this deep couch I'm sorry I'm in an Airbnb right here

just like keeping your leg your knee where it is and tapping your foot yeah so how's the tension on your fucking hip when you're doing that like well obviously tight to keep it because right now that feels horrible to me yeah um but you're doing that on a pedal so there is some resistance what's your spring springs max springs are low loose as fuck loose yeah i'm literally just stealing everything you do so just keep telling me things um yeah i don't know i have my my beaters come back fairly far it's like i've even measured it i think it's um

six or seven inches I might get... Like from the head to the beater, the beater to the head, when it's just sitting there on its own. So is that not default, then? You have to change that from stock.

I'm pretty sure that's like pretty much default. Okay. But I move the chain slightly. I mean, I can't steal these because I've got different pedals, but loose... One show on that last tour, I was having this struggling on the right foot thing.

And when I watched it, When I say struggling, when you say struggling, like, we're not struggling. It's just, for me, it's... Most times people won't perceive it. Yeah, they don't perceive it, but it's a feel thing where I'm like, this doesn't feel like I'm in control of what's happening. This is just, I'm getting it done. I can hear that the part is being played correctly, but it doesn't, I'm not having fun

because I'm fucking thinking. Yeah. I want to not think. I want to, and I had one show where I ripped. and I mean I had a few shows when I ripped I'm honest but like one way I was having a bad time and then the next show I fucking ripped and then the show after that my springs came completely loose in sound check and what I'd realized is I'd started the tour with pretty fucking high springs to probably be too high like max tension not max but like three quarters and then throughout

transit the pedal shaking around my springs have come undone to a point where I had one show where they were in the sweet spot which must have been really loose because the next sound tech they fucking fell off and now I've been chasing that yeah where was it loose is a move what pedals are you using on that's why I was using the speed cobras then I got the dinasinks they have an adjuster where it locks down right yeah but it's still to to move them in transit it you normally unhook both springs on the iron cobra to get them into the case and then that could then just fucking rattle around and then make it sound uh yeah yeah and it makes it now i get it yep yep yep whereas i think the dws just go straight in with and you just push the beaters back

and they go against the other one or you don't leave the spring tensioned like that because that would an effect over time it's going to loosen the tension that it actually has, right? Yes, so what I do is unhook them. Take the beaters out, you know? Oh, wow, that's fucking huge brain shit. Just take the beaters out.

I mean... The biggest fucking brain... No. No, is that not big brains? No, it's just regular... Regular brain. Even smooth brain, I would say. They have smooth brain a good amount of the time.

I'm smoother than smooth. Man, no, that blew my mind. I could just take the beers out. Yeah. I can just remember where they are. My brother in Christ, I'm so dumb. Or mark it with Sharpie. My tech marks everything.

Sometimes it's like, bro, why are you marking? You don't need to mark that. He's obsessive. I'm obsessive with marking as well, but that's a neuroses where I'm like, I felt a little bit weird today. I'm going to move slightly to the left and then I remark that. And then I play two shows where it's great. And then there's another show where it's shit.

And I'm like, well, it definitely wasn't that. It was all in my fucking head. I need therapy, bro. I need drum therapy. Yeah. No, the same shit happens to me. And I even have like my stool marked. And I'll like, I'll move that.

And then I'll be like, oh, I moved it up. But no, I think I need to move it back now. Yeah. And just like, there's a level. of overthinking things. And part of this dude is probably we're on the road. We're supposed to be peak

performance yet how long is our sound check and how long is the performance? An hour or two tops? Like, that's not enough to be people. You should we should have a drum kit

and be able to play on that like for hours every day. A replica. That's what Matt they're not a little practice kid that's what mario was saying mario was saying like i found this really cool because i when i think a go giro i think i know i know they've got families now i've got they got kids and shit but like i was like how often do you practice and uh maria was like you know maybe three or four hours and i'm like i don't know how

many times a week thinking you like maybe he goes at the weekend he was like oh every day and i was like that's so fucking cool you're so fucking cool bro it becomes like a part of your life and your mental health. Oh, yeah. But it can go the other way, though. How bad is a bad practice session? I got the fucking, I got a touch of the tism

if I have a fucking bad practice session. Like, I melt down. I like having a backup plan that's like usually like, okay, things aren't going great. It's not feeling great to play today. Like, I'm not going to work on creative stuff. and stuff that requires an active brain and expression and all this stuff.

Like, that's not today, clearly. So I'm going to work on technical stuff. At what point do you make that decision in the practice session, though? Is it super early on or is it like, okay, I've been throwing myself at this for an hour and it's not sticking? A half hour, hour of not going well. Yeah. Or just like, yeah.

But yeah, there's, I don't know, I think there's two kind of classes of practice. There's like super technical, super focused. Oh, I'm working on this pattern, working on this technique or working on something very specific. And then there's like, oh, I'm playing. I'm just playing. I'm jamming. It's an hour-long drum solo or whatever. but like there's also

I think once you've done enough practice and this is like you've hit like 10,000 hours or something you have something something where you've proven you can do the discipline practice and you've done a good amount of jamming

then you can be like I'm going to do some in between form like I would play and just jam or whatever quote on quote and then I come across something that's like oh that wasn't as clean as I'd like it so then I go to play it again and then I play it again and maybe it's still not happening so I have to slow it down so it's like you're driving down a road and you hit a pothole it's like you stop and you fill the powell instead of just driving faster so you don't feel feel the pothole as much, which is, yeah. Some people get really good at that though, and they're so good at like being able to work through any amount of flub or anything and they, and they can excel and play really fast and, you know, they're just more the artist ADD types, ADHD types.

But like, at a certain point, you know, you're going to want to. to master something. So, but they're doing it by traveling down the same roads, you know, often enough that they're mastering it. Whereas through convention, the Western thought is like, repeat this pattern mindfully. Yeah. As opposed, but like, there is some momentum that you gain from moving from one thing to another.

So like a dude, if you're harping on something for, you know, 20, 30 minutes straight, it's like, you may not realize it, but that can really suck the life out of like you as a as a being kind of. You know, like there's some people are more geared. I'm more geared towards it, but I've also realized over time, I'm less, I can do that less. Like, I need more stimulation because I've been super stimulated by music that moves and changes and flows. So, like, once you get in a flow of going from one idea working on it, next idea, next idea, next idea, next idea work on it. Like, it becomes effortless. And, you know, hours go by when you're practicing, when you're playing. and you are still practicing even though you're just playing

but it's like you're practicing what not just working on some set of patterns or gaining some sort of facility you're working on expressing yourself and playing from basically like the like I said like the ether or something like just inspiration off of inspiration and listening to that voice and letting that voice guide you,

you're getting better at doing that. So when you're like, when you go to, first off, how often do you practice? Every day. Every single day? Yeah. On a kit every day? Yeah. I've seen yourself.

It's nice. I mean, in my home. Yeah. On the road, it's like a pad every day for at least an hour. But every-show or middle of the day? Pre-show. Yeah. just like warm up sometimes middle of the day i'll get like more in but i started doing this thing

where every few days three or four days i'll go to a practice spot and some rehearsal studio and play for bring my pedals and play for like i don't know two to four hours that's fucking nuts and then what on a day off or you'll go and play a show afterwards go and play a show because dude then i'm actually warmed up do you play the songs like from the show I'll play parts yeah like I'll drill

and I'll drill stuff that's similar to what I would be playing but also I just like improvise to a degree like improvising like that a lot

just following my instincts or whatever playing the new stuff allows me to bring in something new to those those open solo section or even sections that don't have to be, you know, precisely this part played,

I can open them up and bring in new stuff. And I'm like, oh, that. You did earlier that day. No, I didn't even do it earlier that. I'm talking about,

like, I just play random shit that I want to play. And then somehow doing that opens me up to other possibilities of playing other stuff during the show. That's fucking. cool. That's almost like in lifting when you're like when you need a delode and you just like I'll mix up exercises this week because I've reached a plateau with everything and this week I'm just going to do I'll do dumbbell bench instead of instead of flat barbell and then when you go back to barbell you're

like fuck I don't know what I did but this feels fucking good. If you're so if you're at home how long you're practicing for at home daily? yeah two to four hours and is sometimes it's six you know when i when i get like really into something or like i'm i make a certain track or something do you go in with a plan when you practice or do you sit at the kit and go i usually have things that i'm obsessing over what did you do yesterday um or last time you practiced yeah i'm i'm eating into your practice today bro yeah sorry no it's okay it's okay it's worth it. And it also sometimes brings in new ideas or like gives me,

absence makes a heart grow fonder or something like that. Yeah. Sometimes you need a little. I feel like that more, the older I get and the more practice that I put in. But yeah, yesterday was I was doing basically soloing because I've just got back like a few days ago.

So being able to play freely is like amazing. and just like I was working on this one thing that I've been working on for a long time but I don't know I was just soloing and I started going that

but a bit the but a bit the but a bit the but a bit the but the but the but the but the it's gas it's get get get that sack I think of that you do that's like you chich

gich gish ggggg what's the feet doing what the but the whole time right that's what I was thought you were saying That's going, that's my ostinato. You're a fucking freak. And it's like,

ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-gat-d-gat-gat-gat-dh-d-dh-gat-d-a-d-old. I was hearing you want in different likes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like having it leaning in. So I can't even fucking do it. I can't even say it. So I can't play it. There's no fucking way.

But I don't know. I ended up playing that for like probably 15 minutes straight or something. But I was working on a lot of other stuff. Just like I've been doing like singles on the basically single base patterns but hitting one note per tom. So, like, I'll be like, Bacca, do-c-d-c-d-c-d-c-c-d-c-c-c-c-c--c-c--c-c. So I'm, like, hitting snare-high, mid, low, lowest, and then snare, lowest, low, mid-high.

So, like, groups fight. Tak-d-d-tuk-tac-d-tac-tac-tac-tac-c-c------------ Like, all these different patterns that are based around hitting one hand per Tom. what's the foot doing sometimes it supplements in between sometimes it doesn't but you don't have this written down you just like it's an idea that comes to you and then you start fucking

yeah I started writing down stuff less yeah I don't know I just sometimes that helps to keep it more fresh because then you're not just like oh there's these four patterns that I'm cycling through it helps be like open me up to other possibilities. Keep me open.

Less reliant. As soon as I write it down, it's like, now it's solidified. You know, whereas, I don't know, for some reason, I like not writing it down now. And just being able to, instead of go through the motions of writing it down, go through the motions of playing it and then trying to develop it. And then, I don't know. Would it, if you did something like that,

and then you were like this would be calling an animal song how would you then shoehorn that like to say you're writing for the next album or something like that it's kind of so i basically do all this work creating all these different rhythmic patterns and and um they might not ever make it into a song because it might not ever serve any song. So does it even get the, like, do you like send them over or? How does animals write a song? That's a distilling process, you know. So right now I'm not in a distilling process.

I'm in a creative process. I'm just allowing myself to come up with more possibilities. And eventually I'm going to be like, all right, I want to reap the harvest. And, you know, then I'll be like, all right, I'm going to. distill these patterns in a very specific way. But I don't, like in microaggressions, these patterns ended up coming out because I was like, okay, this is a very neoclassical guitar thing

that he's doing shred bass, and he's got all these sexed up, it's like, dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig dig. I'm like, all right, how would I play this like a piano player? Or like, you know, a guitar player or something. And so I kind of came up with, I was already working on these patterns, but then that kind of solidified me to me more as like this would be one note per note, you know, like an arpeggiator or something. You're not doubling two notes.

We do that all the time on the drums where we're like snare, snare, snar, tom, tom, tom, tom, time, you know. So like, I don't know, just coming up with patterns that were based around. that idea of playing the drums like a piano at times, and then also trying to adhere to the highs and lows of the guitar, I guess, is how I'd articulate it. How, this is separate to that, but still on the subject. How does animals that lead to write a song? It's different.

It could be, usually it comes from Tosin. he'll have two or three parts. With program drums or just guitar? No, usually not. Just guitar? Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.

I hate it when a guitarist is like, here's the fucking song. Yeah. And here's the drums. And then when you, when you, I get it all the time because we write with, we're all our producer,

guitarists, they love, for some reason they, they hold on to these kick drums. No, it has to be that. And then I play it how I would. to play it underneath and then there's a wizard.

No, I'm really going to need that kick drum there. And in my head, quite a lot of the time, I'm like, but that's not what I would do. And that doesn't feel good to me. Just because it's making your chug a little bit fucking nicer, I like it without the kick. Yeah. That becomes a whole fucking thing.

So I, my dream. Demoitis. Yeah, my dream. And it's always producers that. I love World of Death, but it's always producers. I love my dream is, and this is how we wrote a lot of the last album was either I would have come up with a cool drumbeat. send it to Tom and he would put guitar over the top of it.

Or he'd come up with a cool guitar thing. And then I would play the drums underneath. And then that's the fucking part. That's my dream. Because then you can hear, you have a different mindset to the guitarist. So you might even hear where the one is differently. And then that allows you to be like,

I'll do it with where his one is and then flip it for one. Or, you know, stuff like that. That's a fucking dream. Yeah. And then do you jam? do you So that's one way is heat

Tocin comes with something There's also ones where we've written where it's all drum patterns Yeah Which are For me it's not like Oh I have this very specific drum part It's actually a very specific phrase

Rhythmic phrase That's like usually like monomith is like It's all about Triplets In 6 That's what it's all about and it's all about using fives and sevens in that and arranging those in a beautiful way that's you know kind of elegant but it still hits on it still sounds simple somehow yeah where it's not

overly complex but there is beauty in the complexity if you dig yeah you know and like a rhythmophobia was also like a basically a drum song or whatever where it had all these different patterns and But then, you know, sometimes Hav comes with a song. Like Nefell, he just came with that song, like, hey. And, you know, then, I don't know. We also, like, use, now we use, like, a combination of that. So, like, there will be parts where we're writing and we're like, we get to a point and, like, we're like, okay, what should we do now?

And, like, you know, sometimes I'll come up with my bag of tricks and be like, yeah, we could take this. And basically, like, like thoughts and prayers, you know, Tosum was playing some, you know, uh,

it was like, dig-d-d-d-d-d-d-g-d-gig-d-gig-dig-d-gig-d-git-gig-dig. It's something like that. And that's when I was like, yo, we should do these, you know, don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't and like then we ended up like shifting it slightly so it wasn't exactly just sevens

you know yeah um i don't know man yeah it's like we're playing off of each other's ideas too i think it's cool that that is the case there's too many bands where the guitarist writes fucking everything and that's it and then you just don't get it makes things one dimensional Yeah, the inner play between y'all's brains is going to change shit. Like, in thoughts and prayers, there's, or, no, it's, um, Constalterfall. There's a, there's quintuplets and three. And like, Tosin originally wanted it to just be, you know, do get, do get, do get, just what he's always done.

Yeah, over the ball, over the bar line. Yeah, and 16th notes. And I was like, we should avoid, like, we've done that a lot, you know. And so I was like, what about- So this is what I was saying earlier. And you were like, no, we didn't mean you do that. That was what I was saying. You've leveled up to the fucking, and it is, the next level is.

Quintupleis. Yeah. That's what we changed it to. Yeah. And Misha was there. And, you know, at first, Tosan was like, I don't want to, you know, do it, do it in three or whatever. And I'm like, dude, it sounds cool. cooler and because he was like oh it doesn't work you know it's something i mean she was like no you it sounds

better with quintuple's that's cool why was me and then tuss was like okay because he was producing uh quite a few songs really yeah has it is that the first time he's been back yeah since droid motion oh that makes so much sense i love i love what he brings yeah i love what he brings to stuff like i'm not a bit i'm not actually a big periphery guy i'm not like like but his fucking brain and his ideas he knows how to drill things like where it's simple enough but like yeah i think he he bridges the gap between musically between you and i as in like i'm a little bit fucking simple and you're a little bit for i've got the i've got a smooth brain you got a rigid brain.

Brain. I said brain. And I think Misha knows because he had like periphery has to be kind of poppy. Yeah. So he has that like, this is when you dumb it down. This is when you don't dumb it down.

Yes. Mentality. He rides that line very well. And he did that great when we were writing with him. Like when we're all in the same room, it was like, you know, each of our ideas can contribute. And it was like.

he was just able his workflow is ridiculous yeah and he's a Q base guy as well isn't he but he's a fucking whiz with it and he's been on cube base for forever I kind of like the Q base drum map oh yeah you can do quintuplets

in three super easily you can't do that in any other program and what I like about it is the center of you know it's diamonds I think in the cube base drum mat the center is on the line whereas as in like here's the line and the center of the diamond like in sight reading yeah a fucking piano role is like the line is here and the beat starts at the line yeah and that my brain finds out way harder to like look and read

than the cue base one and the fact you can just press a button in your inquintyton tablets and you can just go yes that's also sick so sick but it's cube base which makes means using a PC, which means being a pedophile. I'm not saying, I'm not saying Misha Mansour is a pedophile, by the way. You kind of did. If you were to extrapolate, what you just said. I did not. I did not mean that.

Let's do something fun at the end. The thing is, I asked you your fucking top five bands last time, and it was done. We did it. I started this dream festival section, and I keep how I, I keep saying it on these podcasts because on these podcasts, I'm trying not to do it because they're fucking hate it. Because sometimes people just don't get into it. And they don't really like,

don't vibe with the idea. The idea of top five. No, not even top top five is pretty fucking easy. But like the idea of like, I had a thing where it's like a dream festival and the only rule is like where. Oh yeah. We did that last time. No, last time I made you do your top five bands.

No, we did a dream festival. Did we? Yeah. I don't think we did. I thought we did it. five. Anyway, go and listen to it. Don't watch this one. Finish this one to the end. Um, you like movies? Yeah. I love movies. There we go.

This is, this is my favorite bit. We're going to do top five movies. Matrix is number one. It's always number one. Fuck yeah. Forever. Side note. Did you watch resurrections? Yeah. Did you like it? Yeah. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah. Everyone I speak to hates it. I don't know why. I mean, I love Trinity and Neo's love story.

Yeah. And I thought it was modernized appropriately. Yeah. And it wasn't like, yeah, I don't see what's wrong with it. And also, do you know the story about what happened with Warner Brothers? No. Okay, so this should hopefully blow your mind and make you appreciate it even more. and whoever listened to the last fucking three episodes of the podcast where I talk about the Matrix,

then fucking just listen again. So the, that Warner Brothers, there was never going to be a Matrix 4. We're talking about Matrix 4. Yeah. There was never going to be one. And Warner Brothers basically said, we own the rights. There's going to be, went to the directors and said, there's going to be another Matrix movie, whether you're in it, whether you have a part of it or not.

So do you want to be a part of it or not? And then they took that. That's in the movie. It's like meta because he's making the fucking game. They want him to make a sequel. He says no. And they say, we're going to make it without you. So the whole movie is like a metaphor for how they felt about Warner Brothers telling them.

And then on top of that, they're like reference. It's basically a fuck you to Warner Brothers, but also it got put out on Warner Brothers. So it's like an even, even more meta level where it's like, well, fuck you. Fuck you again by putting it in the story of the movie. But then fuck you again that you are so obsessed with money that you also let me do this. So fucking punk. I think I have heard this. I think I did hear that.

I fucking love it. And I, and I, yeah, I saw that it was a part of it. Cool as shit. And their meeting. And their meetings and everything. It was like self-aware. Yeah. so which again like the matrix

fuck i loved it fuck anyone it doesn't like that movie anyway movie number two fight club nice just a fucking classic yeah haven't seen it seen it a million times haven't seen it in ages yeah i watched it again like a few months ago because when you watch my girlfriend hadn't seen it and like you're not a complete person until you we need to educate you i love it when my girlfriend hasn't seen like a fucking classic number one i'm just number one i'm like why am i even fucking with you but then you show them and they're like, that was amazing. I wish I could experience that for the first time.

Did she get the twist before it happened? You forget there's a twist? No, she didn't. Yeah, oh, bottle that feeling and sell me it. Apparently there's a bigger twist that. A big brain. A big bone twist. Even Marla was, she was a figment of his imagination.

And when he was. having sex with her like it was like almost surreal and dreamlike and then he gets caught on the plane they're like we can't say that it was your dildo we have to say it was a dildo that

was found oh so it was him playing with himself oh that's fucking news to me yeah where yeah no that's an even deeper twist uh okay number three

Pulp Fiction Nice So I guess What's your Tarantino ranking This is my favorite part of the podcast I don't care if you're I don't know

They're all so different It's I don't know that That it's constructive You know what I'm saying Fucking artist answer I don't know Rank everything

Everything is a sport Yeah you don't have to Then Pulp Fiction's number one What's your thoughts on In Glorious Basters loved it. That's my number one. I think I liked Django more.

Django's fucking, I mean, they're all fucking good. And then, um, the only one. Reservoir docks. The only one I didn't fuck with. And I think it's a fucking, I just didn't give me enough time. Was the, the hateful eight? Is that him?

Yep. It was the only one where I, I think it was just, I don't know. I just, it didn't resonate with me. It was all like in one room. Yeah. Basically. Maybe that's what it was. The setting was very limited, but like, I don't know, I thought they did a great job.

Do you like a love story? There's three big love stories there. Your top three is pop fiction's got a lovely fucking Bruce Willis, French woman, love story. Then you got Fight Club, possibly not even a love story, but love story. No, I am definitely a hopeless romantic. Hopeful romantic, I'll say. Nice. Okay, number four.

Uh, I don't know, man. I love comedies. So a will-feral movie. You got to say one, though. What's it going to be? Uh, stepbrothers, I guess. Yeah. Unreal.

First time I was all stepbrothers. I remember exactly where I was. It was fucking just the funniest shit of ever seen my fucking life. Yeah. You're damn good. All right. Give me another one. You got five.

You got more five. You, you know, you railed these off real. fucking quick. Yeah. A Serbian film, number five. Oh, sorry, that was number one. I don't know. Some hero movie. I love, like,

badass fighting movies. If you're going to say a Marvel movie, I'm going to fucking end the podcast right now. Is Black Adam Marvel? No, it's not. No, it's not. That's D.C. isn't it? Oh, I'm from England. We don't fucking know. We had the Beano was our comic.

I just saw that recently. I thought it was Yeah, you thought it was awesome. I thought it was badass. Bullets are like, you thought it was badass because of his fucking trench holders. That too.

You're not put, you're not put, yeah, dude's a fucking legend. You're not putting black out of me in your top five. No, no, no.

I'm not going to do that. Just, I don't know, point is it's some hero movie of someone being that, oh, you know what's a cool one

that has some dope fighting in it? But that is a really cool story. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Fucking great movie. Yeah. Such a good fucking movie. It's hard to find that.

Like, good fighting, but also a good storyline. Yeah. It's rare. Have you ever seen the movie Old Boy? Korean movie. I've heard a lot about Old Boy. Old Boy's fucking sick. I want to watch it.

I need to watch it. I've heard too many times. There's a fight scene in. old boy which is one shot and he comes out of an elevator and I think at the time it was the most amount of people like put down before like fucking John Wig the most amount of people like taken out by one guy in a scene and it's one rolling shot and he comes out the elevator and he just fucking merks all of these people and it is so fucking sick that's sick and again if you like a twist at the end of the movie the twist at the end of old boy is

fucked up. It's so good. Yeah. And that's my hot take. This was great. Thank you for having me. I hope you had fun. Thank you so much. I've had a great day. Let me talk about the hospitality of this man. We went to the gym.

This motherfucker was just that. We were just hanging out. He was stoked to do the podcast. Sometimes I hit people up and would you please do my podcast again? He was stoked. What we didn't get into but I'll just, you know, I'll plug it at the end is your online lessons. yeah yeah people people know yeah they fucking changed my the way i play the drums mastering time

one i've showed you i've got them i haven't got three yet three actually has a bunch of stuff in there that it kind of should be in one that i realize like okay but it's kind of good that it's in three because then it kind of brings it back to like there's groove pocket soul and it's like Like, those probably should have been talked about in one. But also, maybe it's what we end with, you know, because shit can get crazy complicated. And it does. There's like nested tuplets that I go over and parallel time signatures and shit. Frank Zappa shit.

Crazier than Frank. Crazier than Frank Zapper. You heard it here first. Yeah. Yeah. He was still limited. in that he wasn't doing parallel time signatures. Nobody's really doing that other than Tigran, Masian.

What's a parallel time signature? Like where you have like, you know, like one, two, three, one to three, one to one to one to one two, one to three, one two, one two, three, one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four, five, daque, daqa, daqa, daqa, daqa daqa daqa daqa daqa daqa, daqa, six, seven, one, two, three, four, six, Holy fucking, god damn shit. So it's based off of like a, Clave.

Yeah. So it's not that you're playing. It's not that you're playing. So I'm doing like three, two, two, two and then four, or, yeah, three, three, two, two. And then four, four, three, and then five, five, four, four. It's like, you know, parallel universes. Jesus Christ. You know what I'm saying?

Mastering time three. Yeah. And how much is mastering time? I'm three by Matt. Four million dollars. By the man with the most riches in his brain, Matt Gasker. How much is it actually? $69.

Is actually? Nice. But that's, how long is it? How long is it? You shoot them. They're fucking... Over two. No, I think it's actually three hours.

Three hours. They're shot so pro. There's a lot of info in there. There's a lot of... Which is nuts. When you think about it this way, think about this way. Getting a three-hour drum lesson off one of the fucking great is going to cost you. It's going to run you way more than that.

A one hour with me is 150, but I don't even really do lessons like that. Honestly, at this point, it's, I'm so selfish with my time and it's, and it's out there. You're putting the content out. Unless somebody goes through the stuff on my website. website and like assimilates that stuff and then it's like okay now I want to get a lesson now I'm ready it's like okay maybe you are maybe I'll get a lesson let's see did I'll give you one for free I'll hang I'll insist that I'm gonna get three I'm the nerd them all out this is what we're gonna fucking do there's a nice way in the podcast I'm gonna I'll get three because I've

got everything else I're gonna go nuts on it because we'll do this again maybe next year I would like to think that you would come back next year. Of course. Or next time you'll be in Glasgow. We'll just do it at the home rig. I'm going to nerd the fuck out. I got a kit. I'm going to pay you for a lesson and then we're going to do the podcast after

lesson. I'm going to talk about the man, the teacher, the myth, the legend. And we'll get a lift on. It's going to be a busy day. Yeah. Or we'll just hang. You know? No, I want.

It doesn't need to be a podcast, but I need to be a podcast, but I need a lesson, bro. Yeah, let's play. I'm not going to put you on a spot. You know, yeah. No,

I will, I will give you a lesson for free. I'm not going to charge you. What I fucking guy. Everyone else. You've, you've put me out there to the degree that,

you know, now people have bought enough lessons where this man now gets a free lesson. Fuck, yeah. They've got like a fucking discount code deal. You can put a discount code on this if you want,

but 60, no, I'm not going to let you. I'm not going to let you. 69. is fucking cheap. Relatively. Yeah. And.

I don't know. I always short myself. Have you got a pack this one, two, and three? Have you got a pack this one, two, and three? No, I always, because I put the value so low, or like, I put the price so low that I can't go lower than that. That's how I feel we're making clothes. You can't get a fucking t-shirt this good for the price that I fucking tell it. Like, but, you know, obviously I'm making money from it.

Yeah, I want, I'm on. of these shirts. This looks sick. These ship from the States. I can have this in your fucking house in fucking two days time. That's a great pump cover right there. I got you, bro. I got hoodies. These are me as well. Yeah, and the shorts you were wearing

for the gym. Those were also downbeat. I might have. I brought a bunch of downbeat with me. Let's get off this fucking podcast. I love you. Thanks for doing this. Thank you. You guys, I'll see you in the next one.