The Downbeat - MATT GUGLIELMO | END AND ACACIA STRAIN DRUMMER ON LEARNING SONGS FAST + AVOIDING INJURY TO PLAY HARD AND HEAVY: FOREVER

Episode Date: June 3, 2026

My guest on the podcast this week is Matt Guglielmo, drummer of The Acacia Strain, End, and the man a LOT of your favourite heavy bands call when they need session work. We talked at length about his unique way to learn songs fast, how he overcame some serious wrist injuries, what it takes to nail the session and his work as a producer. Great guy UNREAL drummer, some absolute gems in here.

What's up guys, welcome back to the Downbeat Podcast. My guest on the podcast this week is Matt Gulli Elmo, drummer of the Acacia Strain, and he's the guy that loads of your favorite heavy bands will call when they need a drummer QuickSharp. I've done it myself. We talk at length. It's very drummy. We talk at length about his unique way of learning songs. I learn a lot. How he overcame some serious injuries. What it takes to nail the session and his work as a producer. Great guy. Unreal drummer. There's some proper gems in here. Real quick before we get started, I need to let you know we have a Patreon. Patreon. Patreon.com for slash the downbeat. On it, you get early access to episodes. You get ad-free episodes. You get early access to merch. There's giveaways. There's discount codes. It's well cheap. Patreon.com for slash the downbeat. Could not do this without you. And everyone on Patreon, I love you. We also got t-shirts. We also got hoodies. We also got every little bit of clothing you would want. Handmade, not by me, but by someone. And there's probably some machines. It's really good. That's all I got to

tell you, it's awesome. www. The DownBe. dot A.T. So it spells downbeat. Please check it out. As ever, this episode of the podcast

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Is anything you wanted to ask me first before cameras start rolling? Like what? I don't know. Just something you're hesitant about. Have you got a dark secret? No. We've started. It's a drum podcast.

Yes. It's a fucking drum podcast. Fuck you guys. Oh, you don't do enough drummers. Again, so much shit. When I don't do drummers anymore. Why? Someone has to comment out high, by the way.

What's up? But then people will complain that you do too many drummers. Yeah. If you have more drummers. I can't win, brother. No. I can't win. But people get annoyed, the OGs, who I fucking love and respect.

So the first four episodes of the podcast were all drummers because I only fucking new drummers. The logo, obviously, drums. Those people still clinging onto, where's my fucking drummers? Well, here he is. Where's my fucking, well, we did it. He's right fucking here, dude. It's 1127 a. Yes.

I've never done a podcast. I'm missing load out to do this. Load in. Load in. Locked in. Locked in. Locked in. Locked in.

Look. I've never done it this early and I wouldn't do it for any one other than you. My man. It was supposed to be you and Vincent. Vincent is not feeling up to it. Understandable. 11.26 a.m.

I'm not feeling up to it. I think this dates back to 2018 when I was doing an overnight drive and I was playing the Dan Wilding episode. And I had you guys playing and the next morning he goes, I couldn't fucking sleep all night

because Matt was just listening to two British guys talk. Is that true? Yeah, that's a true story. So I had it pretty fucking loud too. So he fucking hates it. So that's an OG drummer episode. That's like episode four or something.

Exactly, dude. I've been here since the beginning. Dan Wilding from Carcass. Yes. Great drummer. What the fuck are you doing in Nashville? I am on tour with the Black Dolly Murder. With which band are you playing?

I play in the Acacia Strain. Official member now. Yes. Was that a long time coming? How long have you been playing for Acacia? I started in 2018, filling in, and then 2023, late 2023, I joined. So five years of filling in? Pretty much.

I mean, it was just the entire year of 2018, was not with the band after that. 2019, I filled in for spite that whole year. And then Kevin had joined back in the band and then left in 2023. And then you got full member. Let's get this motherfucker straight in. How long did you spite for? That full year. So it was like three tours.

It was full all of 2019. Did you get the spite offer to be a full member? Yes. You said no. I said no. And he used that? Not really. I mean, no, we were still boys after that.

Like I produced their record that they did the following year dedication to flesh. So, like, we were cool. It just wasn't for you. What had happened was, like, in 2020, like Will left the Belleville studio. Yeah. Because he bought his new RIP. Yeah, yeah.

He bought his new RIP. But, well, no, it's still going with Steve Fitts. This is not an ad. I'm going to tell you right now, this is not an ad. I have to cut in right now to tell you that since recording this podcast two weeks ago, the Belville studio has burnt down the entire thing. I think the mattress, I don't know, speculation. I think the mattress shop underneath burnt down.

I don't know if anyone's been hurt. It happened literally yesterday. Steve Evitt's entire studio, who took over this monumental, historic building, has burnt down. I don't know if he has a GoFundMe or anything, because this has happened so fresh. Go on Steve Everett's Instagram. Go and have a look.

I'm hoping it will have a GoFundMe or something. If you would like to contribute to rebuilding what has housed many, many, many amazing bands, he might not even have one, But I just wanted to cut in there because some of this might have seemed in bad taste given that it burnt down. But we move. Back to the show.

Steve Everts bought Machine Shop. Believe it or not. Holy shit. It's still alive. Yeah. The mattress people are still downstairs. Do you ever go up there? Do you ever do some stuff?

I've been meaning to go hang out with them. Because also he re-dided a bunch of shit like he renovated the bathroom in the kitchen. No way. Yes. Oh, my God. Do you want to tell the story of, I mean, it's a Steve story, but you were definitely part of it.

The story of the toilet and machine shop. If you don't know, Machine Shop, Will Putney's old studio in Belleville, before that, it was Machine's Old Studio. Yeah. Will actually called it Graphic Nature. None of us called it Graphic Nature. No. It was still Machine Shop.

Disgusting. But the best place to make a record because it was just like... I mean, some of the best metal and hardcore records in the world were made there. The worst fucking area in New Jersey, arguably. There's a sick gym. I used to like it. Sick gym, but only the mattress people made it the fucking worst. What was Tom's name?

So underneath there was a mattress company? Yeah. What was Tom's name for the guy from the mattress company? Do you remember? Mush. Mush. That's not his actual name, is it? His real name's like Greg or something.

Nobody fucking calls him Greg. But do other people call him Mush? Or was it just machine shop people called him Mush? Everyone in our circle called him Mush. So he didn't know. His name was Mush. I mean, I'm sure at some point somebody called him mush to his face while he was yelling on the phone. So anyway, the studio is disgusting.

Yeah. But some great fucking times records. Yeah. Through no fault of our own, too, because we tried so hard. Tried to get rid of the rats? It's just tried to get rid of the rats. It was just inevitably just fucked up all the time. Ambient lighting at all times.

If you had to sleep in a room, you had to figure out how to turn off like 11 lamps. What does it deal with the toilet? Oh, the camera? We're always... Oh, the camera in the toilet? Yeah, we're always... I mean, it's pretty obvious. Like, you just have to be okay with us watching you take a piss and shit all the time.

So what happened was, I believe it was Steve or were you party to this? So Steve and Will prank or were you party to the actual fitting of this huge Metal Gear Solid style? It literally looked like a Metal Gear Solid CCTV camera. And it would... It was fake, obviously. Yeah. But it was placed in the bathroom pointing directly at the bowl. That was there upon my arrival.

Okay. So it's a- I think it was a Stephen and Will thing. Yeah. The funniest bit about it would be like some bands just wouldn't mention it. They would come in and record. And you'd notice that when they went to the shower or a shit, it would be, they'd have pointed it away. Yeah.

That still happens because I took it and put it. put it in the cabin now. It's in the cabin. Yeah. The bathroom attached to the control room. And it's still, and it's, it's still going. Let me just say if, if you've ever been to either of those bathrooms and you turn the camera, you're a fucking coward.

Absolute coward. First of all. We all laugh about you changing the camera because it's fake, but. Or is it? It is fake. Come on. You're going to get fucking arrested. I know it's fake.

I know it was fucking not wired in, but the funniest shit would be bands wouldn't mention it. And they would just, every time they went for a shit or a shower, they would just move it, like, move it. It's amazing you didn't get canceled. There's a lot of bands with girls in there. I mean, come on. Who's going to cancel it? That and also, like, straight up if somebody moved, I would, I would, like, stop what I was doing and figure out who it was. And I'd be like, what is your problem?

Why would you, why would you move it? you actually think we're filming you? Would you do that? Yes. It happened, it happened recently. I forgot who was at the street. Come on. Don't forget. You've got to remember who it was. I don't think I was there when the band was in, but then I came in, I was like either on tour or away or something. Then I came back and the camera was moved. And I was like, what the fuck is this? And I texted Tommy, like our assistant. I was like, which fucking coward move the camera? He's like, you got to tell me who it was. And he was like, I think it was the drummer in. such and such band that he was recording.

Such and such. Who? I don't know his name. Come on. I don't know his name. What was the band? Here's the thing. If I say the wrong band,

I'm just calling out an innocent. It doesn't matter. It's funny because it's, you're actually in the wrong because it's a fucking camera in a toilet that doesn't work. Straight from the path. Shit.

One of the greatest pranks, though. It's such a big Metal Gear Solid CCTV camera, like, just fucking perfect. Perfect joke. And then Will Putney's, you're just going to fucking reminisce for a minute. minute. When Will Putney got his Grammy, there was a bet between Will and Tom about when he got the Grammy. If he won a Grammy, the deal was if Will won the Grammy, I think it was

body count. Yep. Tom would buy him an acrylic toilet for that toilet, the toilet that the camera is pointing at. He would replace it with an acrylic per specks toilet and Will Putney would have the Grammy in the system. So when you went to the toilet, not only is there a massive fucking CCTV camera, then there would also be a Grammy in the toilet. Will won the Grammy. He did. He doesn't have the fucking, the thing, he doesn't have the physical award. Yeah. So there was a, it was like a piece of paper. Yeah. There was a stipulation made that still Tomo's Will, a Perspex toilet. Yeah. And Will will laminate the piece of paper that says he won a grand. and that will go in there. At that point, I would buy a knockoff Grammy to put in the bowl. I think it's less prestigious than having the real, it is. A real, like, laminated piece of Grammy, like music history in a C-3 toilet being watched by a CCTV camera.

Well, what's the hold up here? Because I bring it up to Will, like, every, I feel like every six months. Tom's good for the money now. Of course he is. He's got a fucking pool coming. Fuck, he's going to hate that. Well, he's not in a band anymore. No, it doesn't matter.

He sold out. I didn't. Now we're still. It's refreshing. Citrusy. Good stuff. I suppose I should ask you some questions about drums. Sure.

And the tour. Ready? Ready for the drum podcast? What do they call it? A gavel. Judge. I only know that. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, are you a rivals guy?

What did I just say? You just quoted the Punisher's ultimate in Marvel rivals. I've never seen that shit in my life. Where did that come from? I know it's a saying, but is it that much of a saying? You said it in the same cadence. Dude. What just happened?

We're synced up, man. That's my main on Marvel rivals. And once my ultimate is charged, and I press those two sticks in, he goes, Joe. jury, execution, and he gets two mini guns and fucking Merks everyone. And you just did it. I got so excited that you could join our rivals crew. I'm sorry, I let you down.

You could be the other white guy in the rivals crew. This is not about drums, but this is, there is, we got a usual stack of six people. And like, I used to stream sometimes and I cannot stream with these other five people, but I'm the only white guy. and the things Why can't you stream with it? Because the things they say What do they say?

And they are allowed to say are insane. Like what? I can't say it. Why not? Because it's their word. Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if?

Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.cair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. I don't know which one you're talking about.

You're just trying to get me to say the worst word on that. Anyway, but I have like a, I used to stream it and I would have Discord chat off. But like I'm terrified of like Discord chat coming on. And then there's all these. And I'd have to just be, I'd have to say like, guys, they're my friends. I can show you photos. It's fine. It's fine.

Anyway, get on Marvel rivals. That was a weird segue. Drum's coming. Now, you've built a reputation as a super consistent and hard-hitting drummer. What does your practice routine actually look like these days? I don't practice at all. Fuck off. Are you lying? No, I'm, I notoriously, I hate practicing.

I think it fucking sucks. It's boring. There's no dopamine hit. I get nothing from it. You get nothing? No. How are you so good if you don't practice? He's very good, buddy. I'm, I don't practice, but I am very obsessive. Like, I'm a perfectionist, so like, but I will get there by way of doing the least amount of prep possible.

Does that make sense? It doesn't make any sense. Not really. So, like, this tour coming up, how often you run in the set? I ran the new songs that there's like two, there's two songs that we haven't played live before, and I ran those. And I was like, okay, like, as long as I remember that. Because for me, it's just like, I think of it as like loading a file. Oh, autism.

Okay, we're getting somewhere. We're getting somewhere. That's the, I got the computer brain tism, thankfully. So it's like, okay, as long as I remember what to do and when in terms of like playing a song, then I'm good. Like, as long as I know what to do. What do you mean? Like, I didn't like breakdown coming. Not even structure because like, especially the new stuff where I was like involved with the writing.

Also, some of these songs, like I'd been playing, like, Dr. Doom, I've been playing for fucking eight years now or whatever. At least, like, I've known that song. Probably before, because that song's old as far. You must have been a fan of that. Yeah, it's almost 20 years old. So, like, those songs I know already, and it's just a matter of, like, you know, I rely on my muscle memory to just figure it out when I'm doing it.

But, like, I don't know, the new stuff is just like, okay, as long as I know what this part is, then I, then I'm just, that I'm good. That's fucking so annoying. That's like the most annoying thing I've ever heard. I notoriously like underprepared, but on purpose. Like I underprepared because I think, I don't know, when I overthink stuff, like I don't want to practice too much because then you like start undoing your progress. That's a true thing. Yes. But I get it on like two weeks off is the sweet spot for me. If I've been hammering, something. I mean, practicing, which you don't do. But like if, or let's say I finish a tour and I don't know if you get this. I actually get progressively worse as the tour goes on. Oh yeah. And then I take

two weeks off from the drums and then I sit on my kit and I'm fucking amazing. But if I leave it three or four weeks, I'm back down again. It's like lifting. Like you can't like if you're trying to, you know, gay like. I don't know. If you're trying to, like, lift heavier than you ever have, like, I don't know, sometimes stepping away and coming back. A delode. A delode. Would be the official terminology. You're more pro about it than I am.

Well, apparently I am about practicing as well. But why am I not as good as you? It's very fucking annoying. But you do at least have a regimen before shows. Yes. You have a, and that's pretty strict. I never skip it. I try at least, like, hold myself to...

That was a pun. So you'll find out why in a minute. Go on. Give me a warm, give me a warm up. Skipping rope is the secret sauce for my drum warmup. And I attribute this to Dave Eilich, who's like, who is kind of known as like the drum doctor. You're an Elish stand for that stuff. I do believe in the Eilichian ways. The Elichian horrors beyond the mind's comprehension. West Coast, this one is for you. Aftershock Festival is back. featuring My Chemical Romance, Limp Biscuit, Pearce DeVail,

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but come on, it's the West Coast. It's going to be good. Make sure you go to aftershockf Festival.com to check out tickets, look for festival updates and stay tuned to the downbeat where I'm going to keep telling you this stuff. Listen, he inadvertently like saved my fucking drumming career because we were in, End was in Europe in 2022 and I was like, I was dealing with some bad arm pain. Like I couldn't, like halfway through the set like my fucking arms were locking up and I couldn't, I couldn't feel my thumb and index finger. And I was like, I couldn't move my wrist.

Like things were just seizing up. And I was like playing like this. Yeah. And I was like, what the fuck is? I was like, I was kind of resigned to the fact that it was just like my, it was at the end of my drumming career. I was like, how old are you? I'm 32 now.

Exactly. So I was, I was, it was fucking scary. I thought I was. Was it like cramping up first song in or like halfway through the set? Like three songs in. Three songs in. Three songs in a, you know, 30 or 40 minutes set. whatever it was. Which band was this? Sorry.

End. Oh, yeah. So it's all blast beats and D beats, essentially. And you hit real fucking hard. Yeah, but I wasn't, I straight up just wasn't warming up. Like, I wasn't doing anything. I could have fucking told you that. You didn't have to fucking go to the doctors. Why is my arm cramping up when I'm playing 230 BPM blast beats without warming up? Okay, come on. Sorry, tell me the story. So I got home and I was I felt pretty defeated and I was like who like what do I like I went to the doctor and they're like oh it's you know it's probably carpal tunnel it's the only and it's not.

And then I got some like cortisone injections, cortisone shots or whatever and and that like helped with the pain a little bit. It just masks it though. Long term that shit's not good for you either because it degrades like your muscle tissue or what? whatever else. It's kind of about your brain as well. Really? Like corticostero-steroids or whatever they are. Attribute to like manic episodes and stuff if you're that way inclined.

If you're inclined to a little bit of the old fucking upsy-downsies. You're a little cuck-oo-goo. I don't know. I think I got like a, like he hit me with like a sponsored ad or something. And I was like, who the fuck is this guy? Sponsoring ads, dick. You must have known who he was. I don't think I knew exactly who he was but like I clicked on his profile and I was like and upon Googling him I was like oh he's played for like Mars Volta in 1975.

Exactly. Weezer and like so I booked a lesson with him and I was like this is what's happening like I feel fucked up when I play like I can't I can't play the way I want to play and that's like I'm willing to die. on that hill like I'm not dialing it back like I'm playing how I play no questions asked I was like how do I maintain this he's like well dude you're not you're not warming up like that's just that's straight up a fact like hitting a fucking pad is not going to do anything like you need to like jump roping is your warm up like he's like that's what I do that combined with stretching is is the move has money exchange hands at this point yeah so like you hit him up can you help me he was like

yes give me this much well no no I was like I'm I want to book a lesson with you to learn like how to make my body work the way I wanted to was it impersonal on I was online I was like through Skype or or whatever but um but he gave me like a whole routine is like jump rope for 15 minutes you know minute on minute off uh you know stretch in between that while you play like make sure you're hydrating. Like I was, I was only drinking water. He's like, do, uh, you know, some sort of electrolyte. Stageflight hydra, perhaps. Never heard of it. Sounds great. Oh my God. It's very fucking tasty. Incredible. That sounds fucking great. Best electrolytes I've ever had in my life. Sounds fucking great. I mean, that's where my brain would, I mean, yeah, I would have said all those things as well

when I'm not an established drum doctor. But it obviously worked. I've got a question for you. What's up? Because I don't know. I don't know. I don't. know, Dave. But what I do know is he's very, from what I see online, he is very slightly dogmatic. Yes. Don't get angry, Dave. About like seat height. Yeah. Did he change your seat height as well? No, we didn't even get into that. I kind of, I kind of picked up on that through like other things that he's posted and just through my own experimentation, like on my own. after like, you know, hearing what he says to like either other people or just like videos that he posts online and stuff. And I've kind of experimented with that.

And I'm also like I'm six four. So like I already want to sit higher. Yeah. Like everything on my kid is essentially maxed out. So you already, you already sit the way he would have requested you to sit. I think so. I mean, I have like the DW thrown I have is like the highest sit. I don't think you can get much higher than that.

So, like, there's not many, there's not much more that I can do anyway. He is very, like you said, like dogmatic with the, with the seat height and, like, posture and stuff. Because, like, and to be completely fair, like, he has done a lot of that research. Like, there's a lot of truth. Definitely got a point. But in my head, I think someone suggested him for when I was reworking my kick technique. And obviously I don't fucking know everything. But I've tried sitting high.

I'm fucking 5. 10. I'm 5'10. 5.9.75. You're like 6'1. I'm like 6 foot. It's funny how if you ever asked a girl who says they want a guy who's 6 foot, how tall 6 foot is.

Motherfucker, they never know. You're about 6 foot. I'm like, actually I'm fucking not. Change your fucking bio. Girls. It's a drum podcast. this far in. No.

I've tried sitting high. That was Amani, actually. I'm going to name her by name Amani. Insists on a six-foot man. My friend of Marnie, you know, photographer? Never matter. Insists on a six-foot man, and we gave her a little pop quiz once. So, okay.

I thought, do you think six feet is? And she was like, oh, you guys are six-foot. And every single one of us was five-ten. Got you. But, like, I tried sitting high. I just can't fucking do it. So what comes across online with Dave is like, you are going to sit the way I wanted to sit.

And I don't know if that's wrong. So I just never pursued it. But I know Connor Dennis is also a big, I think he went to Dave. He was a big, big fan. And again, I never had the seat height conversation with him. But like, I don't know. I feel like because, I trust his whatever research he has done.

Because I feel like, I don't know, he's also worked with a lot of like, he's fucking great at the drop. Yeah, he's really fucking good. He has credentials. Like, he's worked, he's filled in for some of the biggest artists in the world. Like, he has, I think that's the thing for me is like, he actually has real world experience. And he, and he's an amazing player. So, like, he's not just some guy in his bedroom being like, I think you should sit like this. And it's like, okay, well, what do you have, like, what have you done?

You know, he's done pretty much everything. Like he's played, you know, he's proficient in a lot of different genres, including, like, you know, heavier stuff. So, yeah, I mean, also, all the advice that he's given me has straight up worked. Also, like, another thing that he turned me onto was, like, icing my arms after the set. Off to the set. Yeah, cooling down. So, so essentially the, like, before. or you play like you're kind of leaning into your,

you're playing in terms of like a warm-up and your, instead of like there being a huge spike in your daily activity. Yeah. Like you're sitting around doing fuck all like you normally do on tour. Exactly, you're not just, you're just hopping up on stage

and just exerting the most effort you ever have in your life. Like you're gradually leaning into like, like starting with the jump roping and then playing, hydrating well while you're playing and then cooling down afterwards. You touch a pair of sticks?

No. Not until I'm on stage. That sounds crazy to me. Is that part of his protocol? Or is that you? Were you like, I'm not fucking warming up, Dave? And he was like, I'll go, skip, I guess. No, it definitely wasn't like,

I think that might be partly me. Just because also, like, I don't think it does anything for me. Like, I don't think, like, hitting a pad or anything. Also, I don't want to think about it. Like, the more. I think about drums or parts or like how I'm feeling like the worse it is. Like I'd rather just fucking wing it. I love winning it. It's such a bad example set. I really am. You must have practiced to get how good you are though. I did. I didn't pay attention in school. I didn't. I neglected hanging out with, you know, friends a lot when I was younger just to get, you know, I did all the work early on. Yeah. That's why I want. I. I, uh, neglected hanging out with, you know, friends a lot when I was younger just to get, you know, I did all the work early on. Yeah. that's what I want. Okay, so we can turn this into some sort of like, you know, people just not going on stage and going, I got this and then they don't. You use to practice a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. How often did you use to practice? Until I was told to stop. By your parents? Yeah. At least when I was younger because it was like fucking, it was just a headache. So what are we talking about two hours a day? Like three or four maybe? Three or four a day. Just play, because I would just put on records and just play along to records. From what age to what age? Like 11 to 16 or so? Yeah, okay. So you've got five years of solid practice and then now you're just winging it.

Yeah. Well, I was 16 when I joined my first band. So at that point, it was like I was playing often enough, but still, also still practicing pretty steadily in between all that. Okay, so let's flip it. Mm-hmm. So you did end. Yep.

You still do end. Yes. Took over from Billy. learning those songs, surely there is some fucking hours in there because Will Putney's not going to let you come in and wing it. No. So how did you do it? I think the trick with learning other people's material is getting used to a DAW, whatever DAW you choose to use to use. Digital Audio Workstation. Digital Audio Workstation.

Logic seems to be the best with it because of like it's, I don't know, cycling abilities and, like, Because that's, especially when it comes to learning harder shit, like end. Like being able to like loop apart and figure out what's going on and like dissecting things. Be on those slow things down. You would bring the session up with the mini. Not even if it's just a drum stem. Like something to like visualize it. Because even with a drum stem that's on a grid, you could visualize like hits on a grid.

And you can kind of see like, oh, you know, this snare hit or this accent is on like a 16th. Like, I thought it was an eighth note this whole time. Yeah, so against the grid. Yeah. Are you looking at the stems or are you looking at, like, a stereo of the drums? Yeah, sometimes it's just a stereo bounce. Yeah. Like, just enough to isolate it and, like, kind of pick it out.

Because from there, you can just slow it down. So that's the thing that Will taught me. Mm-hmm. Did you learn that from Will, or did Will learn that from you? Like, the very, the very speed thing on logic. is the only reason I can learn songs now. I don't know. That was always just kind of something that I did.

Just from any time I was learning a song that has something pretty intricate, it's just like slow it down and figure out what's happening and then go from there. So right, let's actually, let's take, you're learning an entire, brand new, hectic song.

What do you do? I mean, first thing, usually I like to eliminate the things that I already know. So I'll start color coding. Like, take it. Here we go. No, this is good. This is great.

Any particular song, if there's a part that's like, any part that's in four that I'm like, okay, I know, I know this. I'll color code it. I'll color code it green. Let's get even more straight to what's actually happening. You are in the door right now. I'm in the door. And you, what's in there?

Ideally, I'll have a guitar stem. bass stem and a drum stem yeah at this point i'm cutting up the drum stem because that's what i'm focusing on you know and say you know the verse of a song is fucking crazy you know a lot of odd times stuff happening a lot of fast shit that's like okay that's my problem here but the chorus not the end has like choruses but like in this scenario there's a chorus okay that's easy that's just like a boom. That's, okay, I don't need to practice that. That's, I'm color coding that green.

Okay. Don't worry about that. Green means go. Green means go. Super hard section. Red. Fuck. He's smart.

That's so smart. Red means stop. Okay. Pay attention to this. And then, right, where do we go? We're bringing it back to elementary school. Yeah, where do we go from there? I feel like this is not something that can necessarily be taught.

You have to know within yourself. when you don't know something. When it's red. When it's red. Like, I mean, anything in life. This is a life lesson. You have to know. Directly at the camera, this one.

This is a life lesson. You have to know what you don't know. Get out of your own way. Get out of your own way. Bro. Where are my royalties? Fuck. I need 15% right now.

Sold that guy some incredibly expensive drum lessons. I wonder if he hates me. I hope he doesn't hate me. I've never, I haven't said. I have. He's changed your life. He's changed Connor Dennis's life. He's obviously a pro. Train cool, Travis Barker, Thomas Hawk. Really? Yes. I know those guys. Teachers Bill Burr. Cool. Cool. Is he good at drums? I'm just listing famous people at this point.

Anyway, fuck, we digress. Okay. So you've gone, you've gone through. Green bits are green and then you're just discarding green for now. Yes. Focus on the red. Okay, what about this part? Don't I know. Is it the accents? Is it just too fucking fast? I need to bring myself up to speed.

Is it like what is confusing me? So you have to figure out and kind of learn, like, figure out yourself what it is I'm not getting here. What do I have to do to make this sound as close to this, you know, perfectly programmed part? How do I get it to sound as close to that as possible? And it comes. from, I don't know,

kind of being obsessive, having that you know, self-awareness of what, or being able to figure out, you know, what is missing from what I'm playing.

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The song by this point? No. Yeah, okay. I haven't played. What's missing from your playing? From this hard part that I'm learning for the first time. Yeah. And then if there's something fucking crazy that I have to think, let's go back.

I know this part. Half of it is knowing what you don't know. That's half the battle. It's figuring out what you don't know. Okay. Yeah. Once you are self-aware enough and can figure out what needs work. Yeah.

I feel like that's half the battle with like learning stuff. And this is when I... Not just going, I got this. I ain't got this. Everyone does that. Everyone's like... I did it up until the last straight album. I got this and then we're like...

Really? Yeah, maybe the last two. Euthanasia onwards. But you seem like, no, like in a good way, neurotic enough to where you would... I could picture you obsessing and kind of like hammering shit down and not... No, but okay, so here's the problem. So I do have that in me, but I didn't know, which is why I really want to go real deep on this learning a song thing. So I can learn things so other people can learn things.

Perfect. But I would obsess over the stuff, but not based on demos or whatever, just based on me doing whatever I want. So, like, this will be cool. And then I'll, like, hammer a, I'll learn an entire song. I will obsess over my parts, but they won't be pre-agreed parts. And then I come to go in the studio and then will, rightfully, is like, yeah, this fill that you're doing is all over the vocal. Like, you can't do that. And then like you said earlier, if you practice too much, you start undoing stuff.

If I learn like a robot, but if it's my own parts and then someone says, okay, change that, I'm fucked. Muscle memory is just like, like, I'll just. See, that's where the lack of preparation actually comes in handy. Because if you just get the core, you also have to like, it's easier, it's easier said than done because I also produce records. but you have to think like a producer, like, what do they want? Also, we're digressing a little bit. I'll get back to, like, the learning song part. No, it's cool.

I do want to touch upon, like, you have to understand, like, what the producer wants, especially someone like, well, like, he, there's, like, maybe a specific set of kick hits that need to stay. I was going to say it if you didn't say it. And he's right. Or accents or anything. But to us, as maybe not to you as a producer, but to me as a, a drummer up until very recently, I would just be like, who is a fuck that I'm playing three out of those four kicks? Like, it's not really, you know, it's not matching the guitars perfectly

anyway. And then we'll be like, no, that has to be there. And then you ask me to add one more kick drum when I've done 1,600 hours of four. Yep. But it's like I can't fucking write my name. Take one of those kicks out. Nope. What's my name? Can't do it. Yeah, can't do it. Yeah. And I still as a drummer I still deal with that a lot because I mean truthfully sometimes when you do take one kick it just fucks up the entire groove but understanding like what they're looking for in a specific part and like understanding like what kind of emotions and like how they want the part to come across you know I feel like is is a big part of it and understanding what you can get away with and can't get away with in terms of adding and taking away

stuff is like a whole thing in and of itself. Ideally for me, and then we will get back to how you're learning this song, what's been the most ideal thing for me is making sure I write all the songs with the producer and they get like my program drums get okayed and then coming back and learning those program drums almost note for note. Right. Has been super fucking beneficial for me. rather than being like, this will be cool and not running it past the other writers or the producer and then putting fucking 20 hours on one lick.

Yeah, because then they're like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, and then also I've put, that's my baby that lick and now are you trying to take that way for me? I've been trying to do this quintuplea fill in this part, this whole time. But this time actually on Clockworked, I made sure the quintuplets were made with will and agreed.

So they went on went and then. them it was fine love a good quintuplea fill love it love the fact Steve can program him I don't know how the fuck to do it like Steve let me do a quintuple here he's like Steve side the fucking best absolutely the camera man the fucking the fucking best one of the funniest fucking people on planet that favorite favorite human yeah the best just because this is the last time I did this I'll use better lovers as an example from when I filled in like there are plenty of parts where it's like okay this is an easy chorus we got that this verse this though, completely fucked.

Okay, what is it about this? Oh, this is, there's some odd time shit. There's a bar of seven in the middle. Okay. Let's get it, let's get this part down to the point where I could play this entire verse with the bar of seven that I keep fucking up. That's giving me trouble.

Let's get this entire part down. And that's the repeated process for the entire song. And then eventually you put it all together. But are you playing a simplified version to get that bar of seven in and then adding the rest in? Or are you just trying to do it almost note for note from the get-go? That varies depending on how hard the song is. It could be a bar of seven that's just absolute chaos.

And it's like, okay, now I need to focus on literally this one measure as opposed to, I don't know, it could be like a more open part. I wish there was like a definitive answer, but it really does vary like part to part. and depending on like how crazy. Let me guide us. We're still on the end session. Okay.

And you've gone through, you haven't even touched the drums yet. Yep. But you've marked green. You've marked red. Yep. Is there another color in there? Yellow.

What does yellow mean? Yellow means you got it like halfway. Like you're almost there, but it needs tightening up. When you say you've got it, that's suggesting that you've played the song already. Or you mean you know from listening whether or not this is, okay, I've nearly got,

I will nearly be able to do this. That. You color code the whole thing. Like a fucking traffic light. And then you zone in on red areas first, correct? So would you select the whole red area? And then where would you go from there? You press play, figure out what symbols is on.

I want it like dumb done style. I want to know everything you do. And they want to know everything you do. This is the fucking drum podcast. The drum beat podcast. the drumbeat. Solo the red section. Put a loop cycle around it.

Yeah. Shout out logic. Shout out logic. Actually, no. Don't shout out logic. They got a lot of bugs. But anyway, set a loop. Try to play it. So you will try and play it at full speed.

Try to play it at full speed. And I think that's where learning where you get tripped at, like knowing what I'm fucking up. Yeah. Because I mean, I guess how, unless you blatantly just listen to in your like, I have no idea what's going on. But I think learning where you're making mistakes comes from, at least trying it first. Yeah.

Attempting it and being like, okay, I have no idea what's going on. Where am I getting tripped? Oh, it's this part in the verse, like maybe like the third rotation or something. Something crazy happens. Let's go back. Okay, what am I missing there? Oh, it's this. To figure out what you're missing, you're going to that section and playing it.

Yeah. There's red part. Mm-hmm. You put it on. three beats in you realize you've got no fucking idea what's happening. Yes. What happens? Either slow it down or try to dissect it, you know, sometimes two beats at a time.

Yeah. Sometimes a whole measure at a time. So you change the locator region. Change the locator region. Sometimes with very speed, like you can go incrementally. Like it's not only just half speed. Like you can go like, oh, let me go like 20% slower. Yeah.

And see where this is at. Okay. This is actually not too bad. slowed down. This is only hard because it's fast. Yes. Like this is an easy pattern

and I know this pattern. I'm familiar with this, you know, this specific thing that's in this song. It's just too fast. That was game changing for me. It's Will Pony showing me that.

I was like, wait a minute. The music's all slow but it's the same pitch. Yeah. This is amazing. An example would be like like if something

and this is pretty specific to end like if there's a part that's like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, like something like that. And it's like, cowboy be able. Kim-Chi. Sorry. And it's like, what the fuck?

Like, I can't figure that. Like, say there's a scenario where I'm like, I don't know what that is. I have no idea what's being played. Slow it down. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Oh. I can't fucking unhear it. I'm so sorry.

Carry on. Da-da-da. Oh, I know this. Okay, that's just a. Da-da-da-da-da-da. that da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-th. Sorry, I'm fucking sorry. That's all right.

So you learn- It's ruined for- Yeah, you're learning cowboy-be. It's funny because there is, there is an end song where that, there is a pattern like that. And now every time you'll hear that song, it's going to be cowboy-bebo. Yeah, so it's like, oh shit, I know, I'm familiar with this now. Okay, let me now. Now, just work myself up to speak, so I'll start it, you know, minus 30%, 30% slower. Yeah. Okay, I'm getting it. Let's bump it up to 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, and then you're at full speed.

Okay. Like I said, it's like lifting weights. It's like, I'm not just going to try and fucking curl a hundred pound dumbbell. It's like, no, start at fucking 30. Like, start slow, start light, and then work. You'll get there eventually. That changed my life and I found out far too late. What's that the playing slow thing?

Treating it like weightlifting and slowing it down. and then just incrementally, like, I had it even on clockwork. Clockwork was the first time I actually done it, and it was a track it in two and a half days. And Daddy Will was proud of me. And I was like, two and a half days? Yeah. Why would you do that?

Because I fucking smashed it. I wouldn't want to track a record in two and a half days. I fucking nailed it. I'm sure you did. I remember you did. I deliberately was like, I don't know what it was. I think maybe part of me knew it was going to be Stray's last album, or at the very least, my last album was Stray.

And I was like, I have six months to do this. I'm going to fucking smash this. Because in my head, I was like, I want Will to be proud of me. And I want it to be, I want the studio experience to be fun instead of it being like. He's already proud of you, though. Oh, he is now. And I fucking smashed it. But that slowdowns and then speed it up.

And it got to the point where I was like, I don't know if you go this meticulous with it. it got to a point where I was at some songs I was at 97.5% What's the difference at that point? No, there was a difference and then, and I would just do it. I had it written out crazy, crazy style. I was like, okay, this week,

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'm going, three goes through of each song, I'm going 80, I'm going 90, I'm going 95. And then I'm going to take Thursday off. and then Friday I'm going to go 95, 97.5 full speed. And then next week, I would use those songs to warm up for the new songs I was learning. And I would start at 97.5, then 100%. Then before I was going on tour, I was going up to 102.5%.

So that when I was on tour, it felt easier. Easier. I like that. Drop set, baby. When I do practice for a tour, I do no fan, no water, hoodie on. I like that one as well. Hard mode. I used to call it like acclimatizing.

Like I would deliberately not have, yeah, just, I want to be sweating because then when you have a fan on stage, I'm like, this is luxury. Oh, I have water. I mean, you mean, psychotic. Yeah. But it's kind of sick. Yeah. It's like a marathon run.

Okay. So you slowed down this red part. Yes. God, I hope you're enjoying this because this is, this podcast hasn't got, Madison's bored out of our fucking mind. This podcast has not got this techie. for a while, but I'm having a great time. It's a drum podcast.

I hope everyone's stuck around by this point. This is taking... It's fucking gems. The golden little gems. I agree. This is the golden corral. It's just taking a second to get there. My ADHD is on fucking fire today, baby.

I have a monster. Chill you out. He's thinking about it. I've got a monster right here. Let's say you've learned that red part. It's real fucking hard. And let's say the song goes like this. It goes green, red.

yellow, green, red. Okay. And you've learned red one. Uh-huh. Where do you go from that? Red two. So you have not... I'm skipping around like a fucking mat.

No, no, that's what I would also do. So you go to that's why I put red two in there. Then you go to red two. Same principle. Yes. Now you've got red two and red one. Uh-huh. What do you do?

Go back to yellow. You go back to yellow. Same principle. Same principle, but it just takes... It should be like most of the way there. That's how I look at it. Is yellow symbolic for you will be able to get this very easily, so put the time in later on,

or is it symbolic for you can sort of get away with playing what you want here? Because I know you. You filled in for stray. Those bars were different. Big yellow block when you were learning songs. Every song was a yellow block. Oh yeah.

I'm always taking. creative liberties. That's what, yeah, so that's why I'm asking. It's my downfall. I look at it as like a difficulty meter. Okay,

yeah, yeah, okay. Like yellow's like, it's like a little tricky, but most of it's easy. Like maybe there's, it's going to take me less time to do.

Exactly. Whereas red is like, this is fucking me up. Okay, so at this point, you haven't attempted whole song other than the first time when it goes totally wrong.

No, once you have all of the pieces and you understand where like there's also a piece of this where like you kind of have to understand the structure as well and that's like a whole other thing like understanding like the structure of a song yeah and remembering that but has that part started yet or is that happening as you do this well ideally I would have been listening to these songs on repeat in the gym or something good point yes the gym is the best place that's what I do as well yeah best place to learn or listen to anything yeah I don't know

Like sitting down and listening to something is one thing, but listening to it while you're doing other things in your minds. Subconsciously absorbing which section happens. I mean, every record I've learned that I was like doing session work on in the past four years has been learned. The structure, at least, has been learned from being in the gym. So you know the structure. Yeah.

And then we've done red, done both reds, done yellow. Now what happens? Yeah. once you've ironed out the hard shit, then it's like try to play the whole thing. If you're recording it, like that's a little different. That's kind of the, like, playing something live and recording are like two different. Let's do it all together. Let's do it for now for learning to play live.

So then you've got all these pieces colored in, got your pencils out. Yep. When you have that first go through, are you going in at full speed? Yes. I'm at least attempting it first at first at first. at fulls because the slowing it down, that should have come from learning individual parts. Like playing a whole song,

you know, 25% slower, in my opinion, is not doing anything. Yeah. Only if it's the whole song. For me, that's better for like learning specific parts. Yeah. So when it comes time to play the full song, like, yeah, you should be practicing it full speed at that point.

Because you've been practicing learning those parts at the slower speeds, speeding them up. So then you go, let's say you go to the start, play the whole song, you know every part individually, full speed, you fuck up at red one. Yes. Give it another go, fuck up at red one again. What happens?

That doesn't happen. I'm so fucking good. That's what I was going to say, but... Does that often not happen because, that's a valid answer? Does that not happen because of the prep you've just done? No, it happens all the time. Okay, so what happens?

It happens all time. even if I know a part, like the back of my hand, like as soon as I recorded, I'm like, I forgot everything. Yeah. This is, the only reason I'm going so, like, fucking playmobile duplow with this is because I'm fucking 39. I only learned this shit fucking three years ago. So this is gold. To be fair, I wish I had this info. I mean, I only, I feel like once I started making more records and becoming more familiar with that process, that's kind of when I figured it out.

So I was like, I was lucky in that I kind of am able to navigate in that world pretty, pretty fluently. But so if I'm playing through a whole song and I hit, yeah, like those red sections, like a heart and I absolutely blow it. Then it's like, you just have to have it within you to know like, okay, I made a mistake at this part. Like don't, don't kind of be like, oh, yeah, it's fine. Like I'll get it later because I feel like a lot of people will do that. Will you finish the song even though you made the fuck up? Let's say you start it, you fuck up in red, you finish the song, everything else is good. Sure.

You do it again. You fuck up in the same place at Red. Carry on finishing the song. How do you fix Red? If for some reason when you've done the part on its own and it's fine, something happening when you play the whole fucking thing. I feel like if it's something that's so problematic, if you, you go back and try to relearn it.

I think if you are learning something and you can play it like 10 times in a row, like that specific part, you'll be all right. And it's also just taking like a mental note and be like, okay, this part is coming up. I know I always fuck up this one. Say it's like,

you know, a Tom hit or like a fill. I know I always blow this fill. So just be extra aware of the fact that this fill is coming up and like just use all of your brain. Just about to say, dedicate a section of brain RAM. Yes. To the field that's coming up.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really what the whole process is. It's like, and the color coding, it's like visually laying out where to allocate all of your brain RAM. Yep. If that's the analogy we're going with, right? CPU, RAM, whatever. Yeah.

Our bodies are like computers. Yeah. They are, though. Yes. They really are. 100%. Especially when learning shit. Yeah.

Again, this is just what works for me personally. Like when something's laid out that way, visual. and I can kind of see like, like, okay, this is my list of things that I have to do. And I can see like, okay, 50% of this is green and 30% of this is yellow, but then the extra 20% of this is red. Okay, let's focus on that first. Don't fucking worry about the green. Yeah. You'll get that.

Waste of time. Not even waste of time. It's just like your time. It's a waste of time. Like, man, there's a ways of time. I don't want to say don't practice it because sometimes the easiest shit is the fucking, that's the death of a drum session. You have enough awareness that if it's an easy part that you know is not in your wheelhouse, I know you. That's yellow.

That's a yellow part. You haven't put it out as green. Yeah. Green and red, I imagine yellow and red doesn't have to be the most technically proficient things. just like you said earlier, being aware of yourself to know this is a problem for me. Totally. This section. And again, it varies person to person because, like, what's technical for me may be so easy for you and what's easy and vice versa.

Thanks, but you're wrong. I mean, that's it. That's the podcast, no. You learn a song. That's the song. You got it. Yeah. That's good.

That's fucking gold. If you're still here. It's such a involved personal process that it is, it's hard to explain. explain and get, because it's so, I don't know, I feel like that is, no one taught me that. That is my own unique thing that I came up with. The color coding is new to me. Yeah. And I will be stealing it.

Steal it. I advise, if it works for you, I advise everybody to steal it. I wonder if this happens to you because this, this happens to me and I date it back to like a childhood thing, which I'll also elaborate on. When I'm then playing those songs either live or in the studio and I've meticulously been, been practicing it like this, I can see when I'm playing in my brain the door, even if it's not there.

Like live, I'm, especially if I've learned it from MIDI, a difficult fill that I've been reading slowly from MIDI, let's say it was one of my red sections, and I've done it 50% speed learning based on reading the MIDI, it comes into my brain when I'm playing that, live and I visualize it like fucking guitar hero.

That's fine. You ever get that shit? Occasionally, at least when I'm like, maybe at the beginning of a tour, like a song that like we've never played. And I'm like, fuck, I know this bar. There are this part is like, it's like six, four and then it's like a, you know, something goofy. I was like, and I do remember what the time signature.

Yeah, what the timeline looks like, like visualize it in your head. But also that's why it's great to. import things to a DAW and visualize and like because when you're in the moment, it doesn't matter how you retrieve the information. As long as you're retrieving word or something, like back in the hour, I used to just write like

Dave Grohlby. And I know in my head it was like, get it to get it, get to get it. Like one of the Queens of Stone Age when I was learning, if I was learning, like I did a wedding band and it was like, you have to learn fucking 200 songs. And it was notes. But then when I was playing, I would remember

something about and I'm sure there's some studies on it just the physical act when you're learning something of doing something else to visualize when you then come to recall that information having the visual stimulus helps you remember it better like the midi thing for me and I trace it back to when I was a kid

and I used to play Tetris right this is crazy I've since learned from Madison telling me this is pretty crazy that I would play Tetris all fucking day. Unk. Chocked.

And when I'd go to bed, I would, in like a dreamlike state, all of my problems of the day would be falling as Tetris blocks. And then

each turn would be a different solution to that problem. And then when I figure out the problem, then I press down and it goes into the thing and it clears the line. Wow.

So there's a word for that, I think. I know. And but then why am I not like super smart? I mean, it's definitely, that's some fucking, that's some spectrum shit. Yeah. That is, but like, why haven't I got the fucking clever shit? Why can't I go to a casino, count those fucking cards? Dude.

I can play Tetris in my brain. You are, you got, you're an entrepreneur. Look at you. Is that what it is? You're pushed back. This is slick back. It's going to reverse it. Also, there's a huge piece of the learning thing where that comes from, like,

my practicing when I was a kid was just like playing along to records. Yeah. And like learning, like, Metallica or lamath. What was the records? What were the records? Dude, sane anger. Sayne anger. You put, oh, there's a video.

You need to send it to me. It needs to be played here. Okay. There's a video of you playing fucking frantic or something. I've seen you post it. Almost the whole record. it's the whole record it's most of it

I think in that in that specific clip it's like it's like frantic sane anger maybe some kind of monster one two and three and then it's like

a motley crew live record nice yeah and that was I don't know it was like 10 in that video why am I good at the drums it was playing Metallica

and Motley crew at 10 and it just came from like I had no, I didn't have a laptop. There was no DAW then. Like it just came from like listening and learning and just figuring out like. So there is a huge chunk of that that comes from just 20 years of just like listening to shit. Yeah, but I think if you and all these people now watching, like if you had had the means to do it the way that you do it now back then. and you're obviously a fucking phenomenal drummer

but if you'd have learned those songs like that back then you'd be fucking unheard of and that's what's going to happen with the next like generation it already fucking is probably some little fucking kid learning monomith animals as leaders and comes up in my feed it's like a eight year old boy in China

that fucking plays this song psycho and I'm like I saw a video that's crazy I literally saw a video yesterday of somebody playing a boundary song from a record that I played on. With that was like, with kick hits that were like, what was it a kid? He was like a five-year-old kid. A five-year-old?

I don't know if he was five, but he's fucking young. He was like maybe five to eight or something like that. Which mix was it? Sorry. I've mentioned this on the podcast like ten times in the last fucking six weeks. What mix do you want to be? Tell them to. I'm just a kid.

I want one of boundaries on here to talk about that. so bad. I mean, I don't know anything, but I will wear them on. I don't want to, like, give them shit for it. Debunk Mixke. This is what I want to know, because, I mean, you're a producer, obviously. If people don't know, boundaries put a single out, the internet didn't like the mix. A small majority.

Small majority? Not a word. It doesn't make sense. Anyway, the internet, 50-50 on the mix. And they went, okay. And then they changed the mix. Yeah. And I'm in two minds about how I feel about it.

Let me hear it. They're not wrong. The new mix is better. Sure. Bowing to the internet. Sucks. Sucks so bad. So what I would love to know from them is, were you guys unsure on two mixes?

And then you put one of them out. There was quite a lot of backlash and you were like, we'll just change you to the other mix. Because we were like flip a coin, which mix. In which case, I'm okay. with it. I don't want to speak on behalf of them, but from what I've heard that was the case. Then it's acceptable behavior. Yeah. If they just changed, went in and changed a mix because the internet said they didn't like

their mix, I'm still conflicted because... I don't think that's what happened. I can't see it because you're a fucking artist. You would get to that. But even then I'm still conflicted because it's like, it's quite good fan service to change the fucking mix, but it sets a bad present. I do think it opens the door to that being. allowed or possible in the future.

Which is why I'd like to clarify it. Yeah. And again, I don't want to speak on behalf of any of them. And they're all good dudes. I'm sure they were just trying to make their record sound and be the best that it could possibly be. But if I was in that position, for myself, I would just be like, fuck you. This is the mix.

That would be what I would do. Like, I don't care what you think. This is my art. It's not yours. I'm sharing it with you. Agree. This is for me. But I think every fucking musician on earth would be like that,

which is why my brain thinks maybe they had two mixes, they couldn't decide they flipped a fucking coin. I think that's what it was. And maybe even like, if people says a mix sucks, let's just fucking switch to the other one. You've definitely got a Dropbox folder with both those mixes in it. And I think that, if that is the case,

I need them on here to say that so that people don't go, oh, we can change a mix. Yeah, I don't. We have the power to change the mix. I don't like the snare, so maybe you could tune it a little lower, and maybe this is not what I... Shut up.

We already have the power to kill people. Why don't we fucking change the power so we can change mix? We can do anything. I'm hoping that is the last time something like that happens. I don't condone doing that. Like anybody who complains about it, first of all, none of the people who are actually producers or engineers

will be online complaining about mixes. They're too busy actually doing the things. Yeah. Changing your art to appease somebody else, I think also kind of sucks. Which is why I think every artist on earth true artist and I would consider boundaries to be artists because they make good music. That's why I'm like,

there's no way they didn't already have another mix that they just, they had fucking option paralysis. They were like, they both sound great. I don't fucking, I don't know. Let's go with this one. That's what I heard through the grapevine. Oh, there we go. Debunked.

Get them on here. I love them on here. So I briefly touched upon you filling infinity in Japan. Yeah. If anyone doesn't know, I was at home. I was going to end it all. Glad you didn't. Thanks.

Me too. And then about a week before, I was like, ah, fucking, I'm going to do it on this day. Better tell the boys. I don't think I can come to Japan. I don't think they really knew the extent. Maybe they did. Maybe I think I phoned Tom crying, so I think he did.

I was like, I can't come to Japan. I think they knew. It was, you were with him, they knew. They knew. It was about a week before we went to Japan. And I phoned Tom crying my fucking eyes out. I was like, I can't come to Japan. You're going to have to get someone.

And then, do you remember how much notice you had? I think it was like 10 days. Did you say yes immediately? No. Really? I didn't know that. Not because I didn't want to because I had sessions. Nice.

I had sessions booked and I just, I needed to like make a call to make sure it was okay. Yeah. I was granted. I was able to leave. Grant permission from the king. Yeah. No, he was cool about it. Ten days.

I remember Tom being pissed because I was like, because when he called me, I was like, yeah, I got a check. And he told me later on, he was like, this fucking guy. Like he was pissed. I didn't say yes immediately. I was like, I just need to tell the other person. I was like, I just need to do them the respect of just being like, hey, like I got this offer to go to Japan. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, go, go.

Had you been to Japan at that point? No. Yeah. That's probably why Tom was pissed. Well, yeah. And I mean, I get it. Yeah. Like, the answer should always immediately be yes.

Yeah, but I understand. You're a busy boy. But I called him back and I was like, so I called such and such. and like, okay, I'm able to go. And I remember he was just being like, oh, my God, thank you. So what I remember getting filled in on about this tour, other than your carte blanche parts. No, you nailed it.

You fucking nailed it. People are annoyed at your diet on that tour. Do you know this? People are annoyed at my diet every day. Why is that? Why were they annoyed? Because I eat like shit. And I eat like a fucking child.

Child food. Yeah. you've got um what's the word for it like you're a chicken nugget person i think that was in the stray group chat like i love man he's the name of the chat he's nailing this but he's a chicken nugget person and i was like what does that mean and he was like this motherfucker what do you eat what did you eat in japan the best culinary place on planet earth at a fuck ton of geozza oh that's all right yeah see here's the here's the thing people think i'm a chicken nugget person But I'm actually a few steps above that.

You're a chicken nugget connoisseur. I'm a chicken. Well, okay. What are you eating on tour? Right now? Yeah. We're in Nashville. I'm going to have bad luck burger.

The fucking best. Absolute best burger. I would put it, it's maybe number one or number two in the entire country for me. Now we're talking about burgers. In New York, there's a place called Hamburger America. Okay. Insane name.

What are we going to call? the place. What do we sell? What do we say? Hamburgers. Where are we? Where are we? Okay. The hamburger. Lock it in. And they had a book that lists like the best, it was like 200 of the best burgers

in the country. And- Is it? Is it? Literally. Yeah. Yes. That's awesome. On this tour, because we were doing, we were playing through two of our records, two nights in every city. And so we just had extra time and we would go to these

burger places. This tour. No, no, no, this was two years ago now. Sorry. This is between the Bairdemead, 2024. Yeah. Two nights in every city, we had a bunch of spare time eating burgers like our fucking lives depended on it. Healthy. Yes. On that tour, we must have had, I want to say, like, 20 different burgers in the span, which is... That's good. It's good color. It is. Good for the arteries.

But then Bad Luck Burger, which wasn't in the book. Okay. Bad luck burger was just the best one. Including. Including some of the most world-renowned burgers in the country. It's fucked up how good it is. Yes. And I always feel, because I do gas them up on here all the time.

Like, I always feel like it's me being like, oh, you know, it's just because I'm in Nashville. But it's fucking, maybe the best. This was on that tour. Because we hit that place and we're like, this beats fucking everything. Where else was it was notable? Where are you putting in and out on this? What's your views on in and out? Dude, we were just talking about this before.

I want a bad luck burger so bad, right now. Oh, when it compares to Bad Luck Burger? No, I mean just in and out in general. We'll be talking fast food, American burgers. Where are you putting it? I'll tell you my top two. Give me. What a burger in Shake Shack.

Now you make me question everything. What a burger number one? Interchangeable with Shake Shack, in my opinion. For fast food burgers. Those are two very different burgers. They're still fast food burgers. I know, but like the Shake Shack, I would put Shake Shack number two.

I put in and out number one. The fries are in and out suck. Even when you do all the fucking magic menu bullshit. Oh, you gotta get an animal style. There's another one which is like, I don't know, raw running. I don't know what the fuck it is. What a burger I was so disappointed every time. Really?

Yeah. It's just. Waterburger is like five guys. Devin calls it big McDonald's. What does you mean by that? Like it's just McDonald's, but bigger. Yeah, I think that's what I don't like about it. Whereas Shake Shack is like a real burger.

You can get a little pink in that Shake Shack. I think Shake Shack has better quality. Waterburger is more... It's more manufactured. Yeah. You're putting Waterberg's number one. I think I'll put Waterberg. I'm a Waterburger Apologist since day one.

There's one like fucking two seconds away. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, but there's bad luck burger. Why would you even fucking bother? Why wouldn't I have both? Damn, two burgers a day. It doesn't matter. I'm skipping it off later on.

Yeah, between jumping rope and playing the set, it doesn't, like, who fucking... Do you eat a burger every day on tour? If I could, I would. But you actively seek out a burger? No, not every day. I try, try to be responsible about it. I have no self-control with this shit. I'm going to be honest with you, when I lived in the UK and I would come here and tour,

I would in fact eat a burger every day. I don't know what it, and it's a part of the neurosis thing, but if I went, I woke up in the bandwagon, went to the gym, and then I would eat the biggest fucking most disgusting burger, ideally with a shake after the gym. And then I wouldn't eat again until after I played, I played fucking great. Yeah.

All those calories. What's your cutoff for eating before playing? Mine's like four hours. Okay. This is a great chat because on the last straight tour, I really pushed the boundaries. I was finding, like mine was normally about four hours, but I was finding I was getting gassed out halfway through the set from lack of carbs. Okay.

So I started pushing, surpassing the boundaries of human suffering. And I would just test it. And I think one show, me and Tom ate catering just before we went on stage. Like a full dinner. And that was the limit. But I did have some good shows where I ate like an hour before, where I still had a full belly. I mean, obviously depends on what you eat. I used to eat.

So before, when I was filling in for a case strain, before the band was on a click, we're on a click now. In 2018, where it was just free form. I always had a tendency of playing things faster. I mean, I still do because end isn't on a click. Yeah. I play things like 5 to 10 BPM faster live. Fuck. Grew up on punk rock and...

Will Puntney's bands not having clicks live? Crazy. It's almost like he spends too much time with the click. He's like, I need a holiday. Yeah. Let your hair down a little bit. Yeah, quite literally. Quite literally.

Stand up. Stand up for a while, Will. So I used to eat. right before we played to fatten myself up and slow myself down. So I wouldn't want to play fast. Yeah, that's good. So if I wanted to play fast, the food would get me to the sweet spot. Sluggish on purpose.

There was one show I just, my, instead of why I had a milkshake on stage. That's awesome. It was fucking. Like a protein shake or like you went and bought a milkshake? Like a salted caramel milk shake. So hungry, bro. Oh, my God. I'm straight here.

I need food. Same. I love shot. Not shot. Okay. Let me let me be. I'm taking that back entirely. I love great shitty food.

Like the best, worst food. Like a burger. Yeah. Like, like, bad, like, I mean, the first week of this tour I got,

I got in fucking trouble because I called a food truck to the venue. And the TM fucking flipped out. What do you mean you called a food truck to them? In New Jersey, I know a dude who, who has a pork roll truck. Of course. I've known him for like 10 years.

So I just messaged him. I was like, yo, I'm playing Jersey today. Come out to the venue, park the pork roll truck, feed the tour. He was like, bet. I'm on my way. I was like, that fucking worked. Did you pay it? No.

That's amazing. Johnny pork roll. He's the fucking man. Johnny pork roll. So you have a fuck, you have or had an Instagram. dedicated to pork rolls. Have it still. Have it.

Pig boy N. Pig boy, New Jersey. Yeah. Explain to me what a pork roll is. For those uncultured pigs out there, pork roll is a New Jersey delicacy. It tastes like spamming Canadian bacon. It's a breakfast meat,

but it's the fucking... Oh, it's just own meat. Yeah. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. It was just like a bacon sandwich. Manufactured in... Oh, no, no.

It's manufactured in New Jersey. It's a process. Oh, so it's just... Processed hand. Pork roll is like the brand name. Coca-Cola. Yeah. Pork roll.

Monster Energy. No. Taylor ham would be the brand name. Pork roll is like what is. What it is. But that pork roll sounds gross, doesn't it? Sounds like a primus song. Pork roll.

Pork roll. Anyway, so you made this Instagram. Big boy New Jersey. And every time I eat one. Johnny Porkroll is one of the best ones I've ever had. Do you rank them on there? I do. I do the five pig system.

Five pig? Yeah. A pig snout emoji is half a pig. Nice. Okay. So you get three pigs and a snout, that's three and a half. Johnny pork roll is, it's not like the on-simmis system for five pigs all the time. Five bags of popcorn.

Five. Five pigs. Yep. And can you only get pork rolls in New Jersey? Some parts of PA. If, I know like in Florida, they import it. at like a deli? You seem annoyed about that.

There was a real... I know they import it. Well, because they just import it to the stores. Like, there's no delis or anything really that have that available. The creation is part of it. Yes. I remember the first time I went to New York and I ordered a breakfast bagel. And I ordered it in what I thought was a normal way.

It was like, can I get a bagel, please? And I'll get bacon on it. Just bacon on a bagel? And I'll get egg on it. And I'll get cheese on it. That's correct. And then I'll also get some salt and some pepper and some ketchup. Yeah.

Yeah. But I ordered it like I just ordered it there. Maybe I changed some of the whatever. Maybe I said, can I get a bagel with also some bacon on it? Honestly, yeah. Yeah, because I'm just like building it there. And then the guy's like, hey, yo, this guy just ordered it. Oh.

You want a bacon, egg and cheese, salt pepper ketchup? That's. Salt pepper ketchup one word? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yo, this guy just ordered a bacon, egg, and cheese all the bag with ketchup, and he's like a crazy person. I love Italian Craig.

I love Guido Craig. The whole fucking store, like laughing at me. Yo, look at this guy. And I was very embarrassed, and I realized it is just a bacon, bacon, egg and cheese salt pepper ketchup. And then sometimes people just say SPK. That's douchey. Oh, I did go to a douchey place, and that's what I said.

That's a stupid. But, yeah, people fucking lambasted me. for it. And then, but it wasn't the worst one ever. The worst one ever was, there was a New York Delhi in,

fuck, let me try to remember where it was. It was Atlanta. Mm-hmm. Near the... A New York Delhi in Atlanta? Yeah,

and it was like, but it was run by New Yorkers. So we went in and it was like, obviously Tom, hey, oh, yeah! They're all talking like that.

And they're all laughing and joking, and it's a real, like a real New York jelly. Jelly. Um, and then gay, You know, Gabe, the pigeon. Yeah.

He orders a Ruben with mayonnaise. What fuck is that? Bro, the place, it was like a fucking mosh pit. Everyone went insane. Everyone, the people, they're screaming out the back. Hey, go to look at this guy. He was like, he went bright red. He don't do that?

He went bright red. The whole store, the guy at the front, everyone in stray, including me at this point, I learned my fucking shit. They get the chefs out the back to be like, what the fuck? And then they're like, where are you from? And he's like, yeah, California. And then they're just fucking roasting.

That's a good game impression. Holy shit. Thanks. And we haven't done a single Will Putney. I'm in rehab for Will Putney impressions. I don't know that he knows that we do it. Does he know that we do it? I think he gets sent to him every time.

Yeah, I don't know about that. I'm off it. I'm off it. It's such a Will Putney. Maybe chill with the impressions. Whoa! That's like he's here. Spent a lot of time with the guy.

I love him so much. I'm in rehab for Wilpunty. You only roast the ones you love. I'm in Will Puntney Rehab. Love him to fucking death. When were your beginnings of becoming an engineer producer? I mean, I always kind of dabbled in it, but I think officially is when I started working for Will. How did that happen?

I had drum sessions with Ram. in like 2016. Yeah. And I was like, it was the first time I was in like a real recording studio. And I was, it was literally a scenario of just me being like, I don't want to leave.

Yeah. I don't want to leave here. I want to be here. I feel like I was there for your, was that one I did only death is real? I feel like I knew, I met you the first time I was in. It was before that.

It was before that. Or, okay. Or you, you were a new work in there, maybe. My, my,

first record working there was you're not you anymore counterparts they finished we came in two days before they finished okay so we were back to back and that was a what straight and counterparts did every time we went back to back so we could hang out yeah so yeah my first day was their first day yeah yeah yeah because i remember you were there for like fucking 10 days or something when i turned up yeah i was just i just kind of kept in touch and was like always kept an ear out for for when they needed an intern or assistant or whatever. So you were there doing drum session work? Yeah, I had a band called circuitry a couple of years back

before I filled in for occasion, and all that was like my local band. And yeah, we needed someplace to like track drums and have someone mix the record. Oh, so it wasn't session work, it was for your own band. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is before getting into like playing on other people's records and stuff. I think I just like Googled like studios in New Jersey and like that popped up.

And I was like, oh, oh, they did these record. They, you know, like all the credits pop up. And I was like, oh, clearly this is the place to be. Yeah. Got in touch. And, yeah, Randy ended up tracking me for that. And then I was kind of just like, do you guys need like a like someone that could help out around you? I was like, can I just, can I just like stay here?

I just love being there from day what. It's a fucking intoxicating place. It is. Yeah. Like it's a dump, but it's like, why was it the fucking... It was the vibes. It's my dumps. The vibes, the camera and the toilet, everything.

Mostly the camera. So you were like, can I just stay? Essentially. And there was like a, I don't know, I want to say like a five-month period where they were like, I don't know, like, well, I think they were in between interns at that. Like, someone was leaving or something. like that like i think tom smith who was in a case strain like he was like on his way out or something yeah so there was like a kind of like a grace pier where they were like figuring out some shit but

um yeah eventually will put out a thing um online and was like email email us if you're interested and came in for an interview and it worked out you're doing an internship unpaid zero dollars so you went in for the interview for an unpaid position yeah get it. At what point do you start getting paid? I don't. Do you never get... So then at some point,

you crossed into producer world, though, which you got paid for. This is what I'm trying. Yeah, yeah, I got paid for like work I did on my own, but like I was just... I was kind of the understands like you, this is like grad school, essentially. Like it's free grad school.

You get to learn how to do all of these things. You get to learn how to make records for real. And I'm assuming through that is how you, I mean, how you met Will, which is how you're in end. Yep. Acacia strain. Mm-hmm.

Like everyone. Yeah. I mean, it changed everything. I had... Plus learning all the skills. So it's not... It's unpaid. Yeah.

But it's like the connections have made this your job. Yeah. And Acacia Strain's how... I'm sorry. The studio is how it worked at with the Acacia String because Tom hit up like...

I think all of them was like, do you know somebody who... Like, Kevin can't do these tours? Like, do you know somebody who's good enough to... hack it and they were like yeah we fucking work with this guy yeah i had filled in for end before that so like and i did a good enough job to where will was like yeah i could vouch for this guy like he's filled in for my band and he could play you could play end shit which is like harder and faster so

it's like if you could play that like you could do yeah most other things i guess if people don't know like matt is genuinely like one of the the hardest hitting drummers out there for metal and like far shit like you hit so fucking hard and you sort of ruined will's brain for just will's you working there for so long and i it's great it's great but like you're saying i spoiled him yeah will's perception of like what's doable now is this level that's your level velocities and all this stuff and all this stuff and And it's just like, yeah, I'm not going to do the voice. Just that, yeah, you can do it.

Matt could do it. I mean, he said Matt could do that to me before. He said that to you? I'm fucking sure he has. That's fucked up. Yeah, it must be when weird, but in heads because I haven't fucking learned the song properly. You could do it. Matt can do it.

I can hear it in his voice. He's definitely said it. That's fucking low, man. It fucking worked, though. That's a good producer. I was like, this motherfucker. Do you imagine if he was like, yo, he's outside right now. Like, should I just get him to do?

I might be misremembering, but. maybe that's been said as well. That's fucked. I made that one up. No, he definitely didn't say that. He would never say that. But if somebody said that, that's fucked up.

It's an even worse version of somebody getting used to program drums. Because you've actually, at least with programmed drums, you can be like, well, I made it on a computer, so maybe it's not doable.

But when it's your level, then it's like, well, I've seen a human do it. That means other humans must. be able to do it, which has been good for me. But I love hearing that because my approach to playing drums is kind of to like kind of raise that benchmark. Yeah.

You know, like I, and there's no, I wouldn't play drums any other way. Like it's like 100% you're putting your all into it or like I'm not, it's, it is all or nothing thinking. Yeah. Which is, it's something I've always been guilty of. but also like that is like a core belief for me as a drummer and as an artist. It's like you, if you can play drums to this extent, if you can beat the shit out of them for 45 minute, an hour or whatever,

you should do that. You should not subject to the audience to anything less than your maximum capabilities. Which is why you were probably so bummed out about the wrist, the arm stuff, because you're like, well, I'm not going to change the way I play. Literally, that's why I was like, do I just fucking, do I just do like session shit and like hang it up? I've had many thoughts like that here and there where it's just like, do I maybe just not do this? And then something comes along and it like changes my way. Like, you know, figuring out like how to just properly warm up and cool down and stuff like that.

But yeah, I mean, I will literally play like that until the fucking wheels fall off. Do you enjoy touring? I think I'm enjoying it more now than I ever have because it would always stress me out, like, leaving the studio. Like, not being able to do production and, like, mixing on the road would, like, stress me out. And I would be, I would be killing myself, like, just working, like, overtime, like, crazy, trying to get all of my studio shit finished. Before the tour. Before the tour. Yeah, that's me with this.

But now I'm in a position to where I can, like, remote desktop, like, mix rig at home. Really? There's an app that, like, streams your audio. Oh, I know the one. It's like a plug-in. You put on the Masterbus. Yeah, it's called, like, audio, listen to or something like that. I have, like, a screen sharing app, and I just have both of those running at the same time.

So I could mix, because my rig at home is, like, half-month. it's like a hybrid mixing setup. So it's like half analog. So I could access all of that and mix on my computer at home. You can change the analog stuff. I can't change the analog stuff. Like I just set it to what the mix is set at. And like once it's dialed,

like it's kind of just there. Is that more like master bus stuff? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That and like some of the outboard like processing. Like that kind of just stays. So I'm able to like tap into that and like just fully like I've been doing it. And that now I'm like enjoying like I'm not stressed about it.

Like even though I am essentially like working twice as much now because every bit of downtime I have is mixing. Yeah. I'm like less stressed because I can still I can still do my other job essentially. I can work two jobs at the same time. And like I said, even though it's more work, it stresses me out less. And also it's nice when you, I don't know if you get this, but I used to get it. particularly when I would work over time doing podcasts, doing the clothing line, and then go on tour and then still keep up with it on tour.

But I've done all that work earlier. Then when you get paid from the tour, if it was like free money. Because I was like already working. Yeah. So it's like, oh, wait, I got double paid. Exactly. And it's not like I find myself or I stopped finding myself to be in a position where it's like, well, I need to put this down now because I'm going to be on tour for four weeks and I'll resume when I get back.

Unless it's something like session stuff, obviously I can't do that on the road. But, you know, being able to keep up with that while on tour and then kind of like push it all, like keep it up to date. So by the time you get back, you could take on more stuff. Yeah. It's it's done wonders for my mental health. Yeah, I imagine. So if you had any advice for someone who wants to do what you do, what would it? be. Don't. I already do it. Awesome. No, honestly, like if you truly care about it, like, you'll find a way to do it. You are not a victim, but you're a success story of right place,

right time. Yeah. And working, doing something you love, not necessarily for pay, and it then being the building blocks for everything else. Like, you wanted to do that internship. you were playing drums because you love it you found a studio you loved that you were like how do i just stay here you did that through that you met everyone else that has now made your life what it is yeah basically through just pursuing what you loved doing at any means possible like not being like if you you guys open to an internship or whatever you guys need work here and they go yeah it's unpaid and you go i'm not doing it like you did it because you loved it i mean yeah you have to have an immense amount of passion to do it.

Also, like, I am a very stubborn person, and I will not stop until I get the thing that I want, at least when it comes to myself and my goals that I want to achieve. I was going to say you don't come across stubborn in, like, working with you. No, I try not to be, and I try to be, in that way, I try to be very open-minded and relaxed. But when it comes to like, you know, getting to a place that I want to be in my, either in my career or my personal life or whatever, like, I will go. I like, I won't stop until I get it.

I think there's a little bit of that that needs to be apparent, like when you're trying to chase these sort of goals and not be like, because there are plenty of times where I could have just been like, fuck this. I'm out. This morning. This morning, I was like, fuck this. Exactly. And then now you're saying yes, I'm like, good intern. I was just like, because you are the sixth podcast in seven days. And I'm like, fucking today was it, because I'm doing two today, I was just stressing.

And then you said the intern thing and I'm like, damn. Yeah. Free labor. But like a helping hand, someone gets to learn some fucking shit. Of course. Maybe that gives them the fucking push to do. Yeah. Instead of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars at,

for fucking music school, which I also did. Which I also did. You did it. Maybe it wasn't hundreds. It was like, it was fucking up there, though. Where'd you go? I don't even want to say the name. Say it.

No. Look down that lens and say the name. I don't want to give them publicity. Yeah, they already get enough publicity. What did you go? It's called William Patterson University in New Jersey. And you hated it. I fucking couldn't stand it.

But you finished it. I did. Nice. I wanted to study production and engineering. And, you know, The only person I'll give credit is, I'm not going to give out his full name. His name is Dave,

who ran the program, and he wanted me to be a student, but the head of the jazz department at the school didn't want to, didn't accept me into their program. And you needed to be accepted. Is this the plot of whiplash? Yes, except I would have rather had a chair hold at my head

at full fucking speed. You either needed to be a jazz or a classical major to study production. Make it make sense. That's weird. Make it fucking makes sense, dude. That's like a two mic set up at best. No shit.

Yeah, that's crazy. I play what I play. I play how I play. So I'm like, I could only be so good at fucking jazz. There's no way I'm learning marimba in like, you know, the three months in between graduating high school and, you know, whenever you submit applications to college. So I'm like, I'll try jazz.

and they just like, no matter what my audition, I did like four different auditions, they weren't bad, they weren't great. But for, you know, an 18 year old, 17, whatever I was when I recorded it, it was fine, wouldn't accept me. I don't know, I think it was like an optics thing. Like I wasn't like, I wasn't a fucking jazz kid. I wasn't obsessed with Charlie Parker.

I wasn't, yeah, it wasn't my thing. I think they could see that and they went, we don't want this guy. Even though... But you still got in? I got into school. I just studied music. Oh, okay. Sorry.

Yeah, that was production. Not, yeah, not just not... Which is insane. Yeah, it's ridiculous because I could think of one person who studied production there that actually is like, he's a front of house guy. The thing with production is... And so I did a little bit of production. I did a little bit. So I got a degree in music.

And I did... I did do a bit of production and I did do a business studies segment of it. And the thing I noticed about both of them were the people teaching these things, and this is not a slight on those people because you're getting money, you're getting your job. But like if you've already got to the point that, okay, teaching is normally, sorry, the fallback plan for, you know. Sure.

music and production. I know it's certainly when I get to like retirement age, I probably just teach. I don't want to go on tour. Dr. Reynolds. I love teaching. I love it. But like it,

for most people, it's a, it's a supplementary income or it's a fullback plan. Sure. So the sort of teachers that are teaching music, particularly production and business, those are two things that are evolving daily. Mm-hmm.

And if they go into the school system and they stay in that school system and they're not actively out there working, just stagnant. It's, fucking five years old. You are learning like shit from fucking five years ago. Yeah.

It's fucking crazy. I wouldn't know. True. I wouldn't know. And again, it wasn't even the head of the engineering department. That was the problem. It was just like I couldn't even get to that point. Yeah.

Because I was being blockaded by the fucking jazz guy. I want to hurl a chair at his head. I want to mind. That one's probably quite heavy. This one's quite good. You mentioned something a minute ago. which was, you know, I'm always setting these goals. Yeah.

And I'm stubborn. What's the next goal? I think at this point, like, it's just doing, doing what I'm doing just at higher levels. Like, just trying to keep pushing myself to, like, doing bigger things. Yeah. You know, playing on bigger records, producing bigger records. Like, I also, like, what the term big is also, like, subjective. But I guess I want to maximize my potential and capabilities.

Like I want to be doing what I love doing, what I'm good at, at its, like, highest ability. What is your dream gig to get the call to fill in for? Because you are like the guy that people call quite often. What's a dream gig? Would love nine-inch nails, man. Yeah, same as my man. But they already have the, Josh Reese. He's the perfect.

Yeah, like it's a gig we're never going to. I guys played on literally 400. plus records. It's the dream gig for me because it's like, I think I could do it, one of my favorite bands of all time, and then like,

it would just be fun. And you get to hang out with it. I think my sugar would be fun. A little bit of homework. That falls under the category of homework music for me. I was thinking about this the other day when I was on stream

and someone said, play New Millennium Signo, Christ. And I was like, get the fuck out of here. No, I was like, I'll fucking love,

I don't know why. I think they donated two bucks. I mean, I was like, I've got at least give it a go and I don't do that on the stream. I put it on and I was like

fuck I actually do there's a lot of it's a lot of green on this track there's not that bad there's some red and there's but there's a lot of green

and there's some yellow like I could probably learn on my sugar song I'm not gonna do it because I'm not getting paid to do it so I'm not I don't

I've never learned other than jamming to record so I was a kid I've never learned other people's songs unless I was getting paid to do it

you could probably do quarter of cabalians if my sugar were like Okay, in one year we need you to fill in. Give me a whole year. I'll do it. Whole year?

I think you could do it in like two months. Here's the thing. Okay, whole year I could do discography. That's what I'm thinking of. Oh, okay. I mean, like, if they're going to give me the set, 15 songs. Give me three months.

It's a good chunk of time. And put bleed on tracks. Can't fucking do it. I'm getting better. I'm getting better thanks to the fucking Matt Gasker foot thing. I got a rapid fire in them a done. Sort of tying it into a case. Australian here. We haven't really talked about it at all. So favorite breakdown of all time?

My favorite breakdown? Or what I think is the best breakdown of all time? Why is that two separate things? Well, because my opinion doesn't necessarily, my opinions aren't fact. Like, I could, there could be the one that I like the most and one that could, I think, is considered the best, you know? I mean, yeah, give me both of those. My favorite, I think might be, this is a weird one, black label, Lamb of God. What record is black label on? A new American Gospel. first song. Yeah, it's a fucking odd. Yeah.

The buildup with the Tom rule. Yeah. And that breakdown just goes on fucking forever. And Devon Townsend mix? No, that's Palaces. Didn't he do New American G G G. Maybe he did the remix. I can't remember.

I don't know. The Palaces, the O.G. Palaces mix is dreadful. Crazy. But they remixed and remastered it. I remember. They did like a whole documentary on it, too. But I am sort of still partial to the fucking shitty sound. Which is crazy because S.

There's a trial about it. Records at the time. Yeah. sounded fucking incredible. I don't know. Maybe it was a stylist thing. Okay, so that's your favorite. There's no one complaining

and telling them to change the mix. That's your favorite. That's your favorite. So what do you think is the best one? You... Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, and, dun, din, dun, din, din, din, den, den, den, den, den, domination.

Yeah. That's up there. Yeah. That's fucking up there. And also, like, one of the earliest ones. Devidian, machine head. It's another banger. Is one considered it?

Bada, bit, bap. Is that a bradda, Is that a breakdown? I guess. If you've got old school and new school, you can put it in old school. Okay, favorite curb sketch. I know you're a curb your enthusiasm fan. I'll give you a few.

Okay. Funkhouser tells Jerry the joke when they're on set. Un-fucking real. And he doesn't know. You know that? He doesn't know the joke. Yeah, that was completely... Yeah, in real life, he doesn't know the joke.

That's a good one. Your mother's... No, your... P.P.S. Your is in the sink. I know your mom doesn't like it. My mom's used to it, by now. P.S. Mom. Your fuck is in the sink.

Fuck. Keep it. Okay, next. There's another scene where Larry accidentally, like, kills Funkhauser's nephew. Oh, yeah, that's a later one. Yeah, yeah. I was, like, I feel like nine or ten or something. And Larry has to do, like, the over-the-top apology where he goes, sorry.

Incredible. The bit where Richard Lewis is calling everybody honey. What episode's that? It's also kind of a... Oh, no, no, yeah, yeah. No, it's a later one. He, I think it was the accidental text on purpose. Yeah, yeah.

And then they're at the restaurant, and he's calling... He's trying to convince his girlfriend that... Yeah, he calls everyone honey. So he's saying it every two seconds, it just fucking kills me. Leon sang a jacquilet. Yeah, it's a fucking... classic. Incredible. Most stressful live moment you've had behind a kit.

Oh, Blissmas 24. 100%. What about? I had to learn better lovers' entire discography in a week. On top of also playing two different occasion train sets and an end pre-show. Jesus. The final count was 57 songs that week? 57 songs in, well, three days?

No, one week. Friday, Saturday, one week was a, Occasion Strain Christmas shows. Yeah. Two different sets. That was like, you know, 30 something. And then end set was like 10 songs. Three seconds long.

Ten songs, four minutes. 17 minutes. Is that actually 10 songs, 17 minutes? No, it was like 30, 40 minutes. Okay. And then Better Lover Show. It's like, I think it was 16 songs. The night after.

You're a machine. That was Friday. End was Friday. Blissmas was Saturday the following week. You're a machine. If you've got this far, listen to what he's been saying about learning songs because that's fucking crazy. My brain was fucking mush. I was listening to songs in my sleep.

What, you had them on playing? On a Bluetooth speaker, they were just playing. Back to what we said about it, just, you know, subconscious learning. Obsessive. But you made some money that week, though. Wasn't bad. Done to your head.

You can only play in the studio, or you can only play on stage. There's only one gun. You just have to pick. I figure studios here, Tours here. I mean, that way would mean you would die both times.

I mean, someone's got a gun to your head and they're saying, you have to answer this question or you die. Okay. There's not two guns. I think I would pick live still. Yeah.

I like playing on records. I like the creative aspect of, like, creating new things. That's why I like producing in general. Like, I like creating. I feel like I've such a, a love for live music that as long as I can still produce. Yeah, I'll let you. If the drum, I'll let that, let my, let my production career live. As long as I could still play drums

live and produce records, I think I'll be right with that. Nice. Yeah. And is that to do with just the performance on stage, or is that just the, you know, being on tour? Being on tour is fun. I, I think the live energy from a crowd and stuff, like I love, I love that. And that. I love that. environment of like in the dopamine of getting it right also the dopamine i love dopamine love it so much good dopamine i wish there was a way that wasn't to just put it into my brain but that's the only one we're done thanks i've got another one in a fucking minute get the fuck out of it check out check out matt on all the fuck what's your socials what's your fucking matt dot gullialmo on instagram googlelyelmo macgoylomo dot com you got website i do of course that's professional

End, Acacia strain. That's it? Power kit. He's got a drum plug-in. Not as good as mine. Did you use my ride on your plug-in? No. No, Megabelle.

I wouldn't do that. I wondered if you had. Old Z Megabell. Oh, I don't sell it. The OG. No, it's good. So you have the signature kit, and it's Kyle's company. Yeah, sound blind drums.

Stop plugging it. Sorry. How much is your kit? It's cheaper than Craig's kit. How much is it? 100-something. Your mind's 99. So suck my phone.

fucking dead. Well, it's on sale this week for $89. You don't know when this comes out. Buy mine. Buy mine. Mine's it. Mine's already up. My code. But use the code nice drums. It's supposed to be for the Patreon, but you could use it now. Peace.