The Downbeat - Mike Johnston

Episode Date: July 14, 2019

My guest this week is Mike Johnston. Mike is the owner of the most popular online drum lesson resource mikeslessons.com. At a time when online drum education was not what it is today, Mike started his website (against the advice of many) and built an empire. Mike is truly an inspirational speaker and thinker and we had a great chat. We talked about finding your lane in whatever you do, his old band days, THE IMPORTANCE OF TRAVIS BARKER, the meinl family, and much more. It's very refreshing to see someone in the industry who can be so business savvy yet so humble and it not be a front or a marketing gimmick, and for that reason (and others) this episode is a great listen even if you don't play the drums. I also only swear twice in this episode because I'm trying to be professional.

Hey-oh, Wembley, London, Glasgow. 27th of July, Wembley Music Centre, yours truly. Craig Reynolds, doing a minor takeover day from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Basically, it's like a drum clinic. I'm probably going to play around 12, but there's like minor giveaways. There's like a Q&A. It basically be half drum clinic. half podcast Q&A, judging by the last one. So, you know, please come to that. And the other one just announced is August the 22nd in Glasgow at Drummers Only.

I believe that's probably going to be in the evening. By this point, you'll be able to check it out. And it will be the same thing. Sort of Drum Clinic, they're going to get a load of mine or stock. Hand-picked Byzant symbols from the factory in Germany. And they're going to be there. The symbols are going to be there. I'm going to be there.

And if you listen to this podcast, the guest of this podcast might even be there. But I don't know. You know, you better buy your ticket. I don't know if it's free or whatever. The Wembley one's free. You better just turn up just in case. My guest this week is Mike Johnston. Just a drumming legend.

A bit of a hero, to be honest. He is the owner of Mike's Lessons.com, the original online drum lesson resource. back in the day when there was no drum lessons on the internet, Mike started the first one. And it's still going today. I'm sure he won't mind you, me telling you that he does pretty well out of it.

It's a very successful business. Amazing site for drummers of all ages and skill levels. And Mike is just, I met him at dinner once. I've talked about it before on the podcast. We didn't really know each other, but we were sat next to each other. Michael explained this on the podcast in a bit. But I was a bit nervous about a clinic. He put my head right.

We did this podcast last night. I feel today like I've had therapy. I feel amazing. The guy is the real deal. I, you know, when he first, I say when he first came out, he was here before me. But I always thought when I didn't know him, I was like, is this just very good marketing? Like, seems like such a nice guy. Surely there must be some evil.

in there. But no, he is the absolute real deal. A real guru. A lot of people trying to be gurus. This man is effortless. Even when I asked him some questions I expected a normal answer from, I got this left field Dalai Lama answer. Is Dalai Lama cancelled? Did he do something? Did he say something to cancel? I don't know. You know what I mean? He's a Zen Buddhist of the drumming world. Yeah, we talked about everything. Literally everything. Life lessons.

Lessons is lessons in fitness. It was Mike's Lessons.com with a sort of downbeat twist. We talk about drums. We talk about teaching drums. We talk about his early career actually in a band and how he figured out touring wasn't for him. And how well, that started him on the course to make Mike's Lessons.com. Absolutely.

surgeon, thank you so much for coming on, Mike, if you're listening to this. A bit arrogant if you are, but maybe you want to remember what we said, because maybe I had some live lessons. Anyway, listen to it. Mike Johnson on the Downbeat Podcast. How are you, man? I'm very well, mate. How are you?

I'm good. It's good to talk to you again. It's amazing. Do you know what? You're the most professional person I know. So my thing that I'm going to try for this whole episode is I'm going to try and not swear. I'm going to try and not.

curse for the whole episode. I've listened to quite a few of your episodes and good luck, bro. Good luck. You know, the other thing is your episodes are not short. So I don't know if I can make it that long without cussing. Because people probably don't know, but I have a, I have a sailor's mouth. I have a potty mouth. I just, I usually record myself in one to two minute sound bites and videos and I just, It's easy to keep it clean, and there's no reason to use profanity if you don't need to. But in a drum camp setting, a lot of times our students are like, whoa, you just dropped the F bomb. And I was like, well, that FN needed it, you know. So if you...

I mean, it was the first thing you said when you answered the phone. No, you're making that up. You're making that up. Well, hang on. I can... Oh, no. No, no. No, no.

No, no. Yeah, well, you know, I was excited to hear. roll back on this and then I can swear now. I was, I, no, let's see if we can make it the full episode, no swearing.

Uh, yeah, we'll see what happens. And we'll see how many, if you lose some of your fan base because there was no swearing, then I'm sorry. I, that's guaranteed going to happen by the way,

because people, what I've gathered from, from the figures, from the, you know, crunching the numbers is that people do not give a Sally about, about who is on the podcast. They just care about me swearing

and telling stories where I've done insane things. They want to hear the deep stuff. They want to get into the real funky stuff. I got it. Yeah. They want to hear me just, you know, talking shiz and... And this is horrible.

This is horrible already. Let's just start talking about something else. Okay. What do you think about shit, mushrooms. Actually, I actually love them. Doesn't. My wife makes a like a vegan risotto with Shataki mushrooms sometimes, and it is to die for, my friend.

I don't doubt it. Okay, so thank you for having me on your podcast. This is crazy. I'm usually doing my own little podcast stuff, but you and I got a chance to me. I don't, I'm already starting to interview you. I like this. This is fine. Go.

Okay. We met at the UK drum show, right? Yeah. That's the first time we had met. And then people probably don't know. But when you have industry dinners, you and I met at a minel dinner, you think like, well, cool. I'm going to dinner with Benny Greb and Richard Spavin and maybe Thomas Lang will swing by. Whoever you get sat next to, that's the only person you get to talk to.

Because the way the table works out, there's not like table conversations. So you and I were kind of facing each other And it just kind of worked out That we got a chance to know each other I could have been three chairs down We would have really only met at the beginning And the end of the dinner True and that would have sucked

I felt like I won the minor lottery I've talked to Benny enough You had Benny was on your right though But he was in his own world And he was on your left, my right And then Spavin was on my left So he had like It's not going to go

Bavin was the wild card. First of all, I thought he was German. I'd never heard him speak before until the UK drum show. And then he comes out and he's so amazingly wonderfully British. A proper gaza. Yeah. And I was like, what? He's not German? And so that blew me away. So getting to speak to him, he has the driest, wittiest sense of humor I've ever experienced. And I just instantly was like, okay, you're my new favorite drummer. I think you're the man. So, but then I had only known about you through social media. I mean, how else would I know about you? I'm not, I don't know if you've noticed, but my tattoos let you know that I'm not into metal.

My rock stopped in 2007. That's what my tribal tat lets you know. Right off the bat, it's like, you must have, like, trapped. You must have really been into Peahroach. So, so I don't dis Peahroach. Peorote love stray from the path and they came out to one of our shows, like this tiny little show in somewhere in Finland and they happen to be like playing the arena in the same place.

Bro. And then suddenly we get like a text that's like, our paparoach want to go on the guest list. That's awesome. And they came down and they were the coolest guys. They're amazing. So we live in the same town. So my town or Sacramento, California,

they're from a town called Vacaville, which is really close to here. But band-wise, they're a Sacramento band along with Deftones, my band and then a band called Far. And those were all the bands that got record deals around the same time. And so I remember being in the parking lot of Deftone shows, like club shows, where they were only pulling in about 100 people at night. And me and Jacoby from Peeroch, we would stand in the parking lot handing out our demo tapes. And so I've known those guys forever.

I used to teach Kobe's kids how to play drums. Oh, wow. Yeah, so that whole scene. So, yeah, I was definitely not dissing the Peorote boys. I grew up with that stuff. And I remember the insane jealousy that I felt when I saw last resort on MTV for the first time, because I remember just thinking, that's it, they just won. Because we're at the same age.

We got our record deals around the same time. But they were our opening band. So all of a sudden I was like, well, there it goes. We are going to go into obscurity. And they are going to be the biggest band of all time because that is pure. When I saw Kobe, like, filmed for a video, I was like, that's pure charisma. Like, that is something special. And, yeah, so I have a huge love for those guys, for sure.

Do you know what, that video told me, the first thing that that video told me, I was like, whoa, you can get black drum heads. Like, for the top of the drum, not just the bass drum. That is, that is pretty epic. So, you know, how weird is that? that we get to a point as drummers, and hopefully most people don't do this often, but we get to this point where we all of a sudden surpass our heroes and start to almost look down on our heroes that got us into it in the first place.

But you wouldn't be playing without things like a Papa Roach video. You wouldn't be playing drums without Travis Barker to get you there. Or I was just talking to Eddie Thrower earlier this morning. We were on the phone for a while. And we were talking about how we went to see Metallica. and I just thanked him. I'm like, dude, thank you for still loving your childhood heroes rather than looking down on them

because maybe you've surpassed them with your skill. It's cool to just go, you know what? That dude got me into drums. He's a badass for life. The Lars beef. I hate the law, people hating on Lars. The guy invented a crash and a snare at the same time. Like, in metal anyway.

Do you know what I mean? Like on a two and a four. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And then like, and it wasn't just a crash. It was a crash with a swine. and a look in the face. You know, like, oh, that look.

And so those types of things, I think that it's important for us to look back on those things and always defend them and say, look, you know, yes, I'm very well aware of who Dave Wechell and Dennis Chambers and the gods of drumming are. It's not like I've never heard of Buddy Rich,

but I'm telling you, you know, Lars had an impact or Travis Barker or for me, Tommy Lee had a huge impact on me as a rock drummer. I just remember seeing him going, And like, I didn't know the drums could be that cool. And cool is something that should never be underestimated. Our industry is totally suffering right now because we don't have our cool drummer.

We had, I would say Travis was our last rock cool drummer. And when I say cool drummer, I'm talking about a drummer that non-drumers know. Everybody in the world knows who Travis Barker is, even if they don't play music. Yeah, that is true. Right? Ringo Starr was that for us for a long time. Lars Ulrich was maybe a little bit of that. because he was the spokesperson for Metallica.

I think, I would say probably the most recent one I can think of would be Questlove, but he's not overly active in the drum community. He's just too busy doing a billion other things really well. But we're missing that thing. I mean, can you even imagine where our industry would be without somebody like Travis Barker? How many drums were sold? He changed drum sizes forever. Everyone had to get a cannon for a bass drum.

He honestly did, didn't they? Oh, he changed the whole entire industry. 20 by 20. Yeah, you got to get 20 by 20. You have to have a square kick truck. You have to. I have one. Of course. We all have one in the garage somewhere where I'm like, it's, it's, it's, it's, but it, you know, it, it was just funny to see that I was a private teacher while that was going on. I had just come off the road. I'd done a few shows with blink. We did like the European festivals and stuff with blink. And then I'd quit my band, quit touring. And then Travis started to really blow up. And as a private teacher, watching it all take place and watching people. whatever gear they had to get an OCDP kit or an OCDP snare so it was closer to Travis. And I just thought, this is awesome. I'm not going to even, and then people would say, what do you think about Travis Barker? It's like, what I think is he's getting people to start playing this instrument.

I don't really care about anything after that. Right. I'll be the guy that says what you don't want to say. So when I saw Blink, anyway, side point, you know, you're saying we need a cool drummer. That's why I'm doing a podcast. I'm going to try and be that guy. You're probably the coolest drummer I know. Yeah.

That's coming from Mike, the most professional man I know. So I saw Blink when I loved Blink in like 2003. No, maybe I was a little bit older. Okay. I definitely loved them in like 2003. And I think I saw them in 2005 at Reading Festival. And I remember being a little bit disappointed with Travis. with Travis.

Okay. Being like putting him on a pedestal and everything and all you see saw really, because it was before YouTube was massive, was like the music videos on MTV, so you just assume Pro Tools very, you know, everything's perfect. Sure. I remember being slightly disappointed. And then the summer before last,

we played a bunch of festivals that were Blinkwer on. And I went to watch. blink and he was like gobsmackingly good. Really? It was unbelievable. I couldn't believe it. And then I later found out through someone who has worked with him

that he I don't know if he didn't drink or he quit drinking. He has a practice kit in every room of his house. You know those little DW go anywhere kits? He's going. Got one of those in every room of his house. So if he ever wants to sit and jam on it,

he can just go in and jam on it. Kind of like Lil Wayne has a microphone in every thing in his house. And then I think he started playing to a click as well. And I've, I reckon he's honestly top 10 drummers I've ever seen in the flesh from seeing it the other day. Yet when I saw him when I was a kid that really looked up to him, I was a little bit disappointed. Yeah, well, one, you would almost have to be on the road with some.

somebody to, you have to take like three or four shows into consideration to be like, okay, that was a bad night, that was a good night. My first show ever with Travis was one of those, it wasn't Reading Fest, but it was, I don't even remember all the names of them, but since you live over there, I'm sure you're well aware. You guys have a lot of festivals. And for an American band, especially an American rock band, that's kind of a cool thing where it's like, hey, we're going to send you over to the UK and you guys are going to do a

bunch of European festivals. And I remember Blink was on like four or five of them in a row, but Travis had only been in the band for maybe it was like this was their first album cycle with Travis in the band. I was not a fan. I wasn't into punk at all. Deftones were on that tour with us or on that festival run with us. Limp Biscuit was on it.

Stained was on it. And Foo Fighters, this was their first tour with Taylor. And I remember I had just finished playing. Is it like 2001? Yeah, exactly. Yep. Got it. And so I just finished playing and, you know, what those shows are like.

I mean, you can't even see where the crowds stop. There's a tower of speakers about 200 yards out so that people can keep hearing the music because the crowds are so big. So I just got off the stage, felt great. I was walking back to my bus or our bus, and I see Taylor, John Otto from Limp Bizkit, John from Stained and Abe, and they're all walking to the stage to go see Blink. And they're like, hey, man, where are you going? You got to come with us and see Blink. And I was like, why are you guys going to see Blink 182?

Like, at that time, punk and whatever we called our new metal style, they did not mix. So I was like, why would you go see Blink 182? And Abe was like, bro, their drummer is unreal. And I'm like, really? That Travis dude? Okay. So we go back. So I'm like, all right, let me towel off. We go and stand side stage and watch Blink. And it was the typical Blink show you would think, but we all just watched Travis. Now, on those festival shows, if you've never attended one, the stages are massive. And so I'm looking at Travis. He's on the state, on his drum riser. And then there's no wall of speakers. So the bass speakers are like probably 40, 50 yards away from him. That's a bunch of meters. I don't know how to do the conversion. And then same with the guitar, cabs. Everything's really far away from him.

There's no monitors around Travis and he has no in-ears. So we, standing on side stage, we can't hear any of the music because there's no monitors anywhere. Both the other guys from Blink are wearing in-ears. So there's no monitors anywhere. And Travis can't hear anything, but he nails everything. So I'm just freaking out like, I don't understand. How is he playing with them? How is he locking with them?

And so we get done with the show. And it's my first time to kind of chat with Travis a little bit. And I was like, do you not wear in ears? He's like, nope. And I was like, there was no wedges near you. There was no monitors. And he said, no, I just, I honestly, I have the set memorized. And I just count us in.

And then I sing the song in my head while I play it. And they just lock to me. And I was like, bro, how much of a man are you? That is, that's insane. And I'm like, so you don't, now I have no idea how long he did that style for. I'm sure maybe at some point it went to in-ears and monitors. But for that, the first show I ever saw him play, he just literally, he's like, I can't hear them at all.

I just, I sing the song in my head. I know every note, and I just do it. And it was flawless. And I was like, okay. And that was at the peak of people being divided into the, ah, Travis Barker sucks, or Travis Barker's a God camp. And I was happy to come home and do private lessons and tell students that were fans of him, hey, your favorite drummer is a badass.

or the people that were hating on him, like, you should probably go to a show. You should probably sit down across from that man with a practice pad because I've done it and the dude knows exactly what he's doing. He's extremely intelligent. And that's, I mean, I guess that's the dream for all of us is that our heroes actually can live up to it and they're kind of dope. So, so yeah, I had a, I've always been a fan and a defender of Travis Barker now that he needs to ever be defended.

But it's great when we, just like you said, have our personal. experiences with these people. And I mean, you would think that he would have blown you away when you were a kid and let you down now as an adult. And for that to be the opposite, that's amazing. But also, I think you've just given me a theory. So if you, if you saw that in 2001, and I trust that you're telling the truth. Yes.

I've had dinner with you. You know, there was no poison. There was no poisoning. And then if I saw them in maybe 2004, when they'd got really big, then maybe he'd switched to monitors or in ears or something and it just was throwing him off

because I play terribly if I can hear everything. Ah, yeah. I mean, it could have been, I know that, and also we can never fully understand what someone's going through in that moment. I remember seeing like one of my favorite drummers and then in that same tour, run or that same time of my life where I was having the opportunity to do the shows with them

and just being really bummed out. And then someone else tells me, oh, just so you know his father passed away last night. And I was like, oh, gosh, okay. So that's why it takes three or four shows to really be like, okay, that's where it is. That brings up another point that I'm curious to know your perspective as a rock drummer on. I'm just going to keep interviewing you since you and I don't get to talk. This is so easy. Okay. So deaf tones are. one of my favorite bands of all time. Yeah, I know where it's going. Okay.

They're not the tightest band in the world live, right? Yeah. Okay, and they, but they don't value that over something else. They value rocking. That is a verb to them, to rock. And that is their biggest value. Did we rock tonight? Did we rock the crowd?

Did we do our job? They're not overly concerned, at least in the time that I was touring with them. they were not overly concerned with did we push the beat by 5BPM? So I've seen the Deftones play shows where as a drum teacher brain guy, I'm thinking like, that was so sloppy, that was horrible, it rushed, it dragged, it pushed, it pulled. And then they come off stage on the biggest high ever because they rocked so hard. And it changed my perspective on live music.

As a rock drummer and a metal drummer, is metal different? is being precise something that is an obsession for you or does the rock take over and what you bring to the crowd is more important than how precise you played the part? You are speaking to exactly the right guy. Okay. Because my band, although we're technically a metal band, it's like it's born of like all of us being in punk bands,

mainly the rest of the guys being in punk bands. I was in punk bands when I was a kid, but then metal was my thing. Okay. So until I joined the band, the band never played with a click, ever, live. Okay. Not at all. And so I joined the band and had a real hard time at first because I had rehearsed at the speed of all the songs with a click, everything precise.

and then we have this first show in Germany we have one band practice before it and every song they want to be at a different tempo oh that needs to be faster oh no we play this one way slower oh this needs to be faster and all this stuff so I think it took three tours for me to find the groove

like because everyone had been used to playing these songs faster or slower or whatever and there be times when there's exactly what you're saying, when there's, you know, a festival crowd and there's like 40,000 people there, and I'm pretty convinced that I'm locking it in. And the rest of the band is like,

we need to go faster, we need to speed this up. And then I come off stage and a guy at press says, oh, I noticed you played everything nearly twice as fast today. And I'm like, okay. And there would be gigs where we would play. and I would come off stage and be like, that sucked. Like I didn't play good. Everything was rushed.

And then like you're saying, the rest of the band was insanely happy with it because of the... So what I did to combat this, my problem with it is you probably got a similar way of working with other stuff is it's... I like to remove variables for my playing. and having a click removes the variable of adrenaline completely gets rid of it so what I did was I record on maybe my third tour

I recorded a whole set on a GoPro and I recorded a few nights and I asked our guitarist every night like were the tempo's good whatever until I found a whole show where he was happy with every tempo and then I mapped new clicks from that which sometimes were like 15 BPM faster than the song on the record

mapped new clicks and then I secretly played to clicks for a while and then I eventually told the guys because they were anti-click for a bit and then I told them and I was like look I've mapped them up they go up they go down where we go down so now any song that I start I play to a click, but the click is not say, you know, 180 the whole way through. Wow. It's 180. It will go up to 185, the pre-chorus, maybe 190 in the chorus.

Some of the drops are weird, but it works now. And I have no, there's no variable. I can go home and I can practice our set, even though it's technically not to a click, but is to a click in some sort of weird way. But I can go and practice and my muscle memory is correct. when I go and play it on stage. Right. Because if we played the songs that were pretty difficult,

faster, I can remember those knockdown festival in Germany, in Carl Shrew, Germany. It was the worst show I've ever played in my life. I was, like, hyped up on the amount of people there, but also it was towards the end of tour, which is, if anyone's seen straight on, like, the last three or four dates of tour,

fucking, oh no! Oh, yes! Oh my goodness. Did that count? Yeah, yeah. Once you get to the cut of the fur, once you get to the cut of the fur. Yeah, you're in, yeah.

So I will take my stray from the path medium t-shirt signed by Brother Craig. You can have anything you want. Anyway, so I get pretty, pretty shot towards the end of a tour. Right. And definitely before we had to click, I would blow the last two or three gigs of tour.

Like, there would be maybe two parts of a show where I absolutely just blow a fill. But this one festival in Karlsru, Germany was before, it was pre-click, I was tired, and there was a lot of people there, and I just blew it. And on top of that, the drum kit, the rental just started falling apart, as well as my playing and psyche falling apart, it was

horrendous. Now, when you have something like that happened, when it's all over, was it horrendous to the people that saw it and to your bandmates, or was it just to you? I think I got really lucky by the drum kit falling apart, because every one of my friends on the tour or on the festival, that was what they were saying. like man it looked like you had some problems up there with you know the high hat for like running away and i'm like yeah that was it because i was on point tonight i'm really pissed at the backline company because tonight was my night i have PTSD about that show wow not not so much now

now we have the click thing sure now now i'm like i go in with that confidence and sometimes if we play a festival now with the click I talked about it a lot on the podcast. Like, the matrix effect happens where you've got a song at like 220 BPM, but the click is going, boop. Oh, boop, man. That happens in every clinic. Yeah.

I'm like, who got into my laptop? Who got into my laptop? There's no way this track is this slow. Have you ever got it when you've gone to check and then you've realized it's right and then you blow the first note because of you checking, because I've done that as well. Yeah, well, I've done a, yeah, there's been a couple things that have gone horrendously wrong on that.

And one, the matrix effect is a fully real thing. The adrenaline gets pumping. You hit the space bar. You get two bars of click and you're like, oh, I clearly got the wrong song because the one I'm singing in my head is much faster than this. And then, you know, it's a loop in seven, and the keys come in and go,

and I'm like, this can't be right. It's gaint-d-d-d-g-gank-gain-d-gain in my head. So that's a tough thing. And I have started to actually take those tracks with the click and everything. They're on my phone now. And that's what's going on backstage, is me warming up to those with the adrenaline and knowing, you know. I mean, now that you've done a festival, you know what it's like to be warming up while hearing one of your idols on stage playing right before you and you're going like are you sure you want me to go on

right after that like okay so the adrenaline's pumping and then and so now i've gotten used to that but the other thing i've started to do is there's a few speeches that you can find on youtube like inspirational speeches and i've started to i have like two or three that are my favorites and they're very calming and instead of getting pumped up for my clinics and pumped up for my festivals now i've started to calm down for them. So I get my body warmed up so that I'm physically warm. And then about five to six minutes before I actually have to walk out on stage, I'm listening to an inspirational speech by Matthew McConaughey or Arnold Schwarzenegger or somebody that's just talking about professionalism, excellence, kindness, acceptance. And instead of my heart racing, when I walk

out on stage, I'm very chilled out. And then when that click comes on, it doesn't give me that same effect. Wow. So you're getting pumped up and then you're pumping down. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I had heard about that. A lot of the things that I do from a mental aspect are all mirrored from the world of professional sports. So I'm always studying the top athletes in the world. How do you perform, you know, at a finals match? How do you perform in the last game of the baseball world series? What did you do to get yourself ready for that moment? What if it, what if the moment was the last at-bat of the World Series and it's tied, but you hit the home run. Excuse me.

What was going through your mind in that moment? So those are the things that I'm always studying to make sure that when I do walk on stage and I have to follow, I remember when I did PASIC, I got sandwiched in between Chad Smith and Dave Wechel. And I just thought, like, come on, man. I'm just a dude making some videos. And so it was like, okay, my mental game better be on point. because that can really derail somebody.

You know, if you're backstage and you're seeing Weckel dial in his kit and then you peek out the curtain and on the stage you see Chad Smith playing a chili peppers tune, you know, it's a lot to go through. So, yeah, a lot of the mental prep that I do now came from the world of professional athletics, professional sports. Okay, right, we're going to get into this because what I did, I've got, I've got bullet points. And you know what? I've never got bullet points, okay?

because I don't, I'm usually just having a chat with people that I know really quite well. And then now I'm like, well, you know, we know each other. We know each other, but this is our first proper chat. Yeah, and you're like a wealth of knowledge. So I was like, you know what, I'm going to make some bullet points because I basically want to be getting a lesson here. Well, it's so great to have you as a guest on my podcast. That's fine You gotta have me on yours

For this episode This is Mike Johnston's The Downbeat And what I have in my little notes I got here The first bit was gonna like introduce you and everything But everyone either knows who you are Or I'm gonna add something to this To explain who you are

So let's not talk about that Good But let's go to the clinic section Because this is stuff that I need to learn about And so obviously you are massively well rehearsed in the world of clinics. And on the opposite side, I am just beginning what I hope is a clinician career. Okay. And so I need all the help I can get.

And I remember, and I've talked about it a million times on the podcast, and now you're here to tell it, at that dinner, I was freaking out because I just, came from my sound check for some reason they sound check me and I was last on the next day but I sound check last on the first day and I was absolutely terrible and I was not happy at all

and you gave me this pep talk I can't even remember what it was about but it was our first interaction as humans and I was like this guy is the real deal Because I'd seen you on the internet and I thought, surely this is just a marketing ploy. This man is not this nice or clever. This has to be...

Just running around punching puppies in the throats. Yeah, this has to be like, who's that NFL player that hung the dogs? Oh, yeah, Michael Vick. Yeah, this has to be secret Michael Vick shit going on here. And then within a second, you told me. me, I can't even remember the advice, so sorry guys, you're not getting the advice, but it was, it was like you'd

given me propanol or some sort of anti-anxiety drug, and I'd just gone, oh, okay, that's fine. Yeah, I mean, I do remember the chat, I remember thinking about halfway through dinner,

like I mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, when you do an industry dinner, you guys all meet in a lobby somewhere, and then you walk down a street and you feel like, okay, we're the Minel crew or we're, you know, the Deiadario crew or whatever. And then you get to the restaurant and all hell breaks loose. And generally there's going to be a couple big dogs with you. So in this case, we had Udo with us, right? Yeah. So you've got the vice president of Minel. It's not a bad dude to sit next to because at some point, he's one of the smartest human beings on the planet that I've ever encountered. At some point,

you're going to get some advice. Benny Grebs there, Richard Spavor. there. And so it's like, okay, well, how are we going to chessboard this thing out? And then what happens is a waiter just shows up and doesn't know who anybody is and he just starts pulling chairs and you just get stuck where you get stuck. And I remember thinking like, okay, I don't know Craig, other than from the internet, but this will be cool because this is a minor artist that I don't know and I don't know much about. So I can't make a judgment about this person yet. But obviously I have the judgment in my head of metal guy. And since I, grew up in that world. I kind of know what I think and let's see if I'm right or wrong.

I remember about halfway through dinner, I was like, I could not have sat across from a more perfect person because he is exactly, he's going through everything I went through five or six years ago when I was starting to build this and I was getting opportunities that I felt career-wise I was ready for, but I had no experience. Like there was no junior learning curve. like, we're going to send you out to these podunk stores in the middle of nowhere. You can do 20 clinics there and we'll build you up. Just out of nowhere, they're like, you're on Minel Fest. I was like, that's a great opportunity, but I don't know if I'm ready for that.

So I remember talking about that. And I think the biggest piece of advice I was trying to give you was look at the roster. Look who's here. Everyone is here for a reason. This was not just famous drummers that they could pull together. This was the advice. This was it. They pulled these people together for a.

reason and your reason to be here is to be you. They want Craig here to be you and you can be more you than anyone in the world. Benny Greb cannot be more Craig Reynolds than you can. So be 100% you and you will fulfill your obligation to this drum festival and everything will go great for you. And then I remember just watching the pressure come off of your body as you realized. It's coming off now. I don't even have it and it's coming off. And I remember thinking you like and that And I could see even Richard going through it too because he was new to the clinic world and to the drum festival world. And it was like, no one in the world, you know, Benny Greb and Stan Kastan Moore was on that. Benny was on it.

Joe Joe was on it. It's like, Jojo can't do. Jojo Mayor cannot play and stray from the path as good as you can. You are the best in the world at doing what you do. So don't worry about out drum and basing Jojo or out witting Benny Greb. Like they're already here. They're already on the festival to do their thing. So why were you brought in? You were brought in to be you. Be 100% you. Don't change anything about who you are and just do it. And everything will go great. And I remember seeing you after you played and everything. And it was just awesome. I was so excited to even be there at that dinner just to be at that moment in your life, you know?

Oh, and you know what? I'm so glad you remember exactly what the advice was because everything was such a blur and then I actually got pretty drunk on wine and also. Adaboy. But it was like, the weight was completely lifted and what you just said is amazing advice for anyone that goes through what I assume was imposter syndrome right there

where I was like, I don't deserve to be here and you were like, yes, you do. was like you gave me a hug without the hug I'm sure you gave me a hug at the end anyway but definitely yeah well I just waited until you were hammered and then I took you back to my room and thank you for a wonderful evening man that's why I can't remember funnly enough right you know what's funny about this

is that was my first clinic and I was so nervous and yeah maybe I had a couple of drinks but I slept like a baby that night and then last month or maybe the month before I did my second clinic ever for mine all at dramas only in Leeds. And I wasn't nervous at all. Nice.

I was sober, right, the night before. I don't, I'm not an alcoholic, but this is, I'm comparing it to the mine all thing. So I was sober the night before. I was not at all nervous, right? And then I sat down in bed at like 11 p.m. in the hotel. And I was like, you know what would be really annoying? if I couldn't sleep. Oh, man.

And the last time I looked at my clock, it was like 4.30 in the morning. I just couldn't sleep. And there was no nerves or anything. It was just, it was me screwing myself. It was like, you know what? Tomorrow's going to go great unless you don't sleep. So you know what? You're not going to be able to sleep.

That's a tough thing. And I think that there's nothing you can do. Okay, so the way that you go through your touring, and especially if your band takes a big break, just because you've been a touring drummer, the first three or four shows, it takes a while to get your tour legs under you. It's almost like your calluses have to rip off.

Your skin has to go through that whole process of being a touring drummer again. You put gaff tape all over your hands. And then right around week two, you're like, cool, we've hit our stride, now I'm a touring drummer. Even though I've done 40 tours, it still takes two weeks to get back into it and to get your cardio back up and everything.

And being a clinician, mentally is like that too. The first two or three days of a clinic tour, I'm thinking, oh, God, so wait, who was in town? Oh, Keith Carlock was here two days ago. Great. How am I going to compare to what you saw with Keith? And then two or three or four dates into it is when I realize, wait, you just saw Keith Carlock. The last thing you need me to do is go, bang, bang, bang, takakitaka, bang, but takabaka, taka, taka, bag. Like, I don't have to do that carlocky stuff, because one, I'll never do it as good as him. And two, you just saw it.

All you need me to do is to do what I do. Well, what is it that I do? That's the tough thing, Craig, is figuring out, what is it that you do? Maybe it's a band thing, or for me, my entire role, the only reason people are bringing me in, the drumming is the total side part of what I do. They're bringing me in to make sure that their customer base

stays excited about playing this instrument. My job is to inspire, to make people allow, to make people think and to make sure that they go home going like, okay, I can totally do this. My job is not the role of Marco Miniman, Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang, whose their role is to show the world what's possible on this instrument. If you dedicated 90% of your life to this thing, every aspect of your life to this thing,

how far could you take it? That's their role. That's not my role. And you figuring out your role in your band is one thing, but you personally figuring out your role as a clinician, that's all part of it. That's part of the growing process of you going, am I funny?

Like, is that something I do? I'm funny with my friends, but am I funny on stage? Am I deep on stage? Do I speak at all? Am I inspirational? And you have to craft this program, really. It's not enough to just play six or seven tracks in a row.

You have to take people on a journey. And if you can do that, If you treat a clinic or a drum festival, if you treat the clinic like a set list and you can write it out like a set list, what's your intro? Even thinking about really what's your intro, do you walk on stage to applause and put your in ears in? And the first thing the audience hears is music. Okay, that's one way to do it. Or do you walk out on stage, grab a microphone and walk to the front of the stage instead of behind the kit and speak to them and let them into your life right away? That's another way to do it.

Do you speak from behind the kit? some people are kind of nervous standing at the front of a stage, but the drum kit gives them this sense of security. It's wrapped around them. So they can speak, but they always speak from behind the kit. All those things have to be thought about before you ever step on that stage. I think you told me that at the dinner as well. And I was like, oh, my.

Rattling it off. No, but I was like, oh, my God. I haven't even thought about getting to the stage. And then I think what I did do, I think I said something funny before I sat down. Oh, yeah. because Mike Dolbert had introduced me

and be like you know it's his first one he's a little bit nervous and I was like I was all right I got something now and I just sat at the drums and I was like

can I have a microphone and I got the microphone and I went I'm not nervous Mike I don't know what you're talking about and then I started the song straight away

there you go I was got a laugh and then I was like okay this will be all right I'm somewhere between the funny between the funny and you know

if you want a metal guy who's a bit funny and a random jazz song thrown in there because in itself that's funny yeah then oh do you know what you didn't see huh because you don't play vick-furth you weren't at the vicfirth dinner the next night right no i didn't get invited to that uh so imagine if you were um so who was ross miller was talking about how he hates fake pocket right and how there's like a studio trick to move the track behind, you know, move it behind the click,

forward in the click a little bit for people, right. So he was like, I hate this and all this stuff. And then he'd just finished saying it to the whole table. It's like Jojo Mayer, like everyone. Rashid from John Legend, like everyone there. And then I just turned around and went, Russ, I did that about three hours and 45 minutes ago. Exactly what you're saying.

And you know what? it was the only way I could get through the song and it kind of worked. And then he started like apologizing because he was rinsing people for it. And then I was like, I'm only kidding. I did do that, but I don't care. I like, look at me. Do I look like I've been playing like jazz music my whole life? He's one of those guys, though, that anytime he speaks, he,

there's so much depth and care to what he's saying that I've taken some of my greatest life lessons from Russ. and we only know each other through festivals like that one. We've played together. We just keep getting thrown on the same things. We're just randomly, all of a sudden, we're in Spain together. And then we just did one a little while ago that Spavin was on and Josh Dion was on it. I don't even remember where it was. But so he's one of those guys that I've always looked up to.

And the biggest compliment I can give Russ is that we did a thing in Seattle. Seattle, Washington, and it was a huge festival with Thomas Lang was on it, Todd Suckerman was on it, J.P. Bouvet was on it. God, I mean, the list went on and on. It was a massive thing. And Russ was on it. J.P., this is years ago, and J.P. didn't know who Russ Miller was, had never seen him play. This was J.P.'s first major thing besides the Minel Drum Festival. And JP and I were very close, so we were kind of hanging out most of the time. Anyways, we're doing soundcheck and Russ kind of soundchecked. And if any of you don't know who J.P. Bouvet is, in my mind, he's literally one of the greatest drummers alive right now, especially for how

young he is, but he's just a deep, deep drummer. And JP just turned around to me because his drum set was in front of mine and he goes, that is exactly what I want to be when I grow up. Just from listening to Russ sound check his kid a little bit. And I remember it was some of the most beautiful playing I'd ever heard. And I thought, this dude could hang with Wechel and Vinny and Steve Gad, like playing wise, no problem. He's just been so busy in the studio recording so many thousands of albums. We rarely get to see him do his thing. But Russ is fantastic. And he gave me one of the best pieces of advice ever. We did a festival in Ohio called, what was called the Drum Festival that happened in Ohio, I believe. I have no, I can't remember

what it was called. Anyways, it was amazing. And Russ had played, uh, had played, before. He'd just flown in from Australia and you could tell he was walking with a little bit of a limp. Like, I think his legs were cramped on the flight from Australia to America. And he was just kind of all cramped up or whatever. Did his set and maybe it could have been cleaner. I don't know. I'm sure there's things for him to pick a part about his own drumming. But I thought it was fantastic. He never apologized, never looked down at the gear, never blamed anything. And that was that. He played. Then I went out and did my thing, and in my mind, it did not go so well. I was actually really bummed about my performance. I was called Drum Days. And so anyways, I'm seeing Russ.

And at this point, we don't really know each other. And he's getting ready to leave for the night. And I see him. And he comes by my dressing room to say goodbye. And he says, hey man, I just wanted to say great job tonight. I wanted to say goodbye. And I made this stupid childish mistake of apologizing for my drumming. And so I come up to him. I said, oh, do thanks, man. I'm sorry that was the first time you got to hear me play. That was like 60, 70% of me. I don't really know what was going on. And I made, I made like 20 different excuses. And then he just stopped me dead in my tracks. Now, I might cuss here, but it's only because I'm recreating somebody else. So this doesn't count as a cuss. No, this doesn't, you get a free pass. Okay. So he wasn't accepting any of my

self-defamation. He, and he just said, look, that's actually, he's like, he's like, That air-conditioned, perfect little studio you have in Folsom, California, where you record everything and edit it, that's not reality. That's your fantasy. That shit that just happened out there on the stage, that's who you really are. And then he just walked away. Wow. He wasn't a jerk. He was a big brother.

Yeah, but that's just real. That's a mic drop. No one says that stuff. And he just, and he shook my hand, looked me straight in the eyes. And he said, that shit that happened out there, that's who you really are. And then he walked away and then, man, we talked probably 20 more times after that over the course of the years. And I just always remember like, you're right. Like, that's actually exactly who I am.

It was the drum set was fine. Everything was fine. I just got in my own head and that's really who I am. You know, and the reason I brought up him walking with a limp and flying from Australia was he didn't take that moment to say, oh, yeah, man, hell, I can barely bend my knee. I just got off a plane coming from Australia my double bass wasn't as tight as normal. He didn't apologize for anything.

He's like what? That's exactly what I sound like when I take a 20-hour flight across the ocean and play drum set. I'm not going to apologize for it. And it just, you know, it was one of those moments where, like I said, the way I tell the story it sounds like he was a jerk, he was not.

He was a big brother that said something that most people don't have the balls to say. I mean, what I said made him sound like a jerk, but he was just, He was just saying how... He was saying the truth. He was just saying...

This is what happened. He was saying the truth. He was like, you know, if you're going to do that stuff, you should learn that stuff to the level where you can play in the pocket or whatever. And I turned around and basically said, look, Russ, you know, they give me 45 minutes, yeah? I've got seven songs.

I need an eighth song. I happened to help out a friend playing a jazz fusion song a while ago. How can I just cram this into the... thing and then like I cheated to get the pocket but you know and he was cool about it he told me some stories about when he was playing for Ray Charles and shit like that like God it was absolutely unbelievable hanging out with Russ is one of the coolest things ever because it's not his fault but you can't go more than 15 minutes without him saying like you know like if you're in a

grocery store yeah if you're in a grocery store and there's music I guarantee he's the one that played on it so it's not his fault he's just like I remember doing this and like, you're on this record? He's like, yeah. Yeah, it's like conversation starters, but he happens to be a part of every single bit of music. Yeah, you get in the elevator and there's a poster of Diana Ross and he's like, oh yeah, six years with her. And I'm like, damn, bro. But he's not bragging. It's just, that's his life. He lives a different life than us, you know. And so I'm glad you got a chance to hang out with him because he's one of those big brothers that will always give you an honest

opinion, tell you like it is. And we need more of those. You know, we are in, in a, this took me a long time to understand. I don't know if you're going through this personally. How old are you, by the way? 32. Okay, so I don't know if you're going through this, but you were a drummer that played in bands, and then you all of a sudden became a part of the crew.

You were a minor artist, and all of a sudden you're hanging out with some of the biggest drummers in the world. And it took me a while to realize that every crew in the age, bracket that they're in is their own crew and you can be friends with all of these guys but they will always be part of their crew because they grew up going through things we didn't go through so i remember thinking oh my gosh i just did my first clinic was you know or festival with steve gad maybe if we're maybe if we get along backstage we'll be great friends or who or dave weckle or whoever it is and then i realize like i'll be acquaintances with these people but my crew will be the guys that are in my age group

where we went through the same things and we listened to the same music and we have shared experiences and those will be my brothers. So I look at Russ as the crew ahead of me, age-wise, where he went through, when I was doing stuff in the late 90s, he was doing stuff in the early 80s,

so he just went through a different world that I went through. And we will, it's kind of cool to have that group of people that are one generation ahead of you that have experiences that you haven't gone, through yet and they just are willing to put their hand on your shoulder and give you some advice.

And to be totally honest, that dinner that you and I had felt like the moment that I could be that for you, which made me so excited. Well, hang on. Who's in my crew then? If you're not in my crew, I would say, I would say that I'm in your crew, but I'm, I'm, I'm, there's kind of a balance. You're the oldest guy in my crew? Yes, I'm like Uncle Mike in the crew. Yeah. So you'll let me hang out, but every once in a while. Every once in a while, you'll have to answer a question on my behalf. Like a hot chick will come up to you and be like, is that your dad?

And they'd be like, no, no, no, that's Mike. He's cool. He's with us. He's cool, man. He's cool. Look at that 90s tribal tat. He's totally with us. Like, no one's in my crew then. I don't, I don't agree with that.

I think that, okay, your crew, Brody Simpson. It doesn't matter if you're friends or not. I'm talking about people that are going through what you're going through right now and you'll have shared experiences. Brody Simpson. Brody from, Australia? Yeah. I know, Brody. I would say, do you know Paris, female drummer, plays for Gretch? Okay, I would consider her to be in your crew.

Eddie Thrower, for sure, because you guys are both straddling my boy, yeah. You guys are straddling that line of performance drumming with starting to mix in the education. So, so yeah, and I would say, you know, age-wise and experience-wise, my crew would be, Carter McLean would be a good example of somebody that, We've gone through a lot of the same things. You know, so it doesn't have to be somebody that you're friends with as much as it's just the people that you kind of grew up doing the same stuff. When I, you know, it's funny, like Abe Cunningham is a good example of somebody where I go, we lived in the same town. We're probably only separated by a few years, but the deaf tones were so far ahead of where my band was at the same time.

We didn't experience the same things. They played different shows. when we were starting to play clubs, they were playing theaters, and we just missed each other by two or three years. So, yeah. Okay, do you know who should be in my crew, but isn't for that reason? Okay. Luke Holland.

He's too big for my crew. Great point. Well, Luke Holland is closer to my crew because we went through the same things as far as growing up on YouTube. We grew our careers on YouTube. So if I sit down with Luke... So the crew is not an age limit. thing.

Not always, no. It's an experience. And what did you go through at the time? So I would say, like I said, Russ Miller, his playing in his age tells me, dude, he's in there with Wechel and Gad and Vinny. But his experience puts him more in the crew of Steve Jordan, Josh Free's guys that grew up in the studio. He's OT8.

He's, you know, he's the top tier crew. Yes. And we are in a different crew. But you and I, so all of a sudden our crews started to cross. But if you think about it, when I talk to you about my old touring days, it's a different world. You know, I mean, if you had in ears in my days, it was like, that was high, like, dude, your headphones are so small. It's like, well, they're called in-air monitors.

What are inner monitors? So you and I, you know, we had just gotten the first portable DVD player on our tour bus. So it was a whole different world. So that crew doesn't really cross. But then when we're sitting down at a table talking about, okay, tomorrow we're going to be on this festival, if you did 25 more of those, then all of a sudden you and I have a lot more to talk about with that experience. I can upgrade crew. Also, funnily enough, though, another reason our sort of crews do cross over slightly is I started gigging when I was 13 and actually touring when I was 16. So I was touring in 2003.

Okay. So I do have, I have experience of printing out maps. Yes, okay. So you have a little bit of rage against the corn tones in you. Yes, I mean, you know, there's crew crossover. We need to get off the crew talk because I don't want to have you, I don't want to ruin your day for like three hours. What time is it?

Here it's 10.20 a.m. PST, that stands for Pacific Standard Time. AM stands for anti-meridian. I'm good to go. right uh what have you got where you're drinking your green tea yep the king of green tea yes sir what was that thing you posted i want to talk about two different things here and there's no judgment there's no judgment in the second thing okay the the crazy tea device that you posted on my tea infuser yeah that's uh but you like push it down and it goes into the cup yeah it's beautiful it's uh i will happily uh order one for you on amazon today if you send me your address

and it'll be my gift to you as a and I'll get my own. I've got a gift story about you as well, which is going to come later on. Someone else, a mutual friend told me of something nice that you did for him, and I'm going to embarrass you by telling that.

Oh, gosh. But my other thing was, so the tea infuser, let me just, I'll tell you exactly what it is because I'm pulling up my Amazon order right now. So where are you? It's not some baller Tesla thing, is it?

I've seen you, no, no, no, you can get it. I think they've got it right now on sale for $350. It's not much at all. I'm totally kidding. I don't know if you're kidding. Oh, sure. It looks like it costs $350.

No. So the adagio, A-D-A-G-I-O, the Adagio-T-Bottom dispensing teapot. Yeah, it's pretty simple. I mean, you just put loose leaf in it, fill it with hot or boiling water, wait two minutes, and then you just put it down on top of your tea. tea cup and it just filters it all out. No must, no fuss. Hey, in China once, I drank tea

that was brewed in a table. There was this huge, there was this like weird little back alley tea place. Obviously everything in China is to some extent back alley. And there was this huge, like almost

looked like a dining table carved like a dragon and there was like water running through it. I was like, what is that? And then our translator was like, oh, it's tea, and I sat down and had a cup of tea. I don't know what it was. It could have been drugs, I don't know. But I sat down out of a cup of tea that was brewed in this table. That's epic.

How was it? I can't remember. Fantastic. I'm sure it was okay. It was a lot of drinking to get through that tour of China. That's another story. Okay, so this is what I was going to say. No judgment whatsoever.

Okay. Your tea total, correct? Yeah. Oh, you mean, is that all I drink? No, as in you don't drink alcohol. Oh, correct, yeah. So from my early days of touring, we would have called it straight edge. I mean, that's still going.

Tom Argytara is a straight edge. Oh, really? So you're technically straight edge. I'm fully straight edge, yeah. I've never tried a drug. I've never tried a cigarette. I've never tasted coffee. I've never tasted alcohol.

Never. Hang on, you subscribe to straight edge? I don't. I don't mean to. I just, it was like... Oh, you just happened to be. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't until people started like giving me jackets with three Xs on it.

And I'm like, what is this? They're like, you're straight edge, bro. I've got so many straight edge friends. Yeah, so I didn't... It was kind of a big scene here in Sacramento, so I didn't really know about it until it was happening. So, yeah, it's just something that I think drumming, because I was so bad at drumming

growing up, I had to practice so much more than all my friends. So I kind of missed out on everything where you would have tried things. Like I would say from 15 years old to 23, that time, I had my head down practicing six or seven hours a day. If I wasn't in school,

I was practicing drums. I wasn't out hanging out in those moments that somebody said, oh, dude, take a sip of this or try this or put this on your tongue. You'll see things. that I kind of missed I missed out on that experimental

phase so by the time that I started touring full time I was old enough to just say yes or no it was tough in the touring world I had to make a lot of because you don't want to make people feel uncomfortable for what they're doing and I was never judging anyone else

it was a personal decision so I a lot of times I would just lie and say oh man I've been sober for like two years I'm just trying to stay that way and that would allow them to leave me alone if I just said I'm straight edge or I don't drink then the whole night they're either

you know I was I was of an age where no one was making fun of you but they still the more hammered they get the more they're like you need another glass of milk Johnston oh it's my least favorite thing on earth I've got like a my situation is similar

in a weird way so I did the I mean sorry mom and dad or I always have to say sorry mom and dad on this I got all the wild stuff out the way real early. And then from like 16 to 21, I did the practicing thing, much like you did. I was like, I just need to get good because I'm not good. I basically got into a music school and I got there

and I quickly realized I was the worst person in my class. And it was like, I'm going to fail unless I get good. So when everyone was partying in college, I just practiced. And then I sort of, after then, I gradually began partying slightly more. Gotcha. And then, you know, to various extent.

But my thing is I rarely get drunk on tour. Okay. Very rarely, as in probably happens once at all. And it annoys everyone. It probably annoys people more. more than more than they're annoyed by someone that doesn't drink because they're like you you drink so just have a drink right yeah yeah they're getting fired up it's so annoyed but and it it's you might appreciate this the level that i go to i because you know i remember you saying about reading about public speaking and you know trying to get rid of your ums and stuff like that and doing actual research on stuff like that i'm a huge like sports science nerds of like I like to know how best to recover from the gym and obviously everything with the gym and drums and fitness

all relates in the same world and we're going to get to that in a minute. But so alcohol inhibits REM sleep. It does. And everyone calls it a damn nightcap and they don't know the science behind alcohol. Yeah. It's not a nightcap. helps you process what happened during the day.

And it's where memories are stored and where you're learning. So if you're getting hammered all the time, the information is going in your short-term memory, but it never gets processed to long-term memory, which is where the REM sleep comes into it. Yeah. Yeah, you can... And I think the other thing is it starts to mess with the

recovery that you physically need. Because like I said, I'm so happy that you actually research this stuff because a lot of people just will say drink. Like I just don't drink. And it's like, well, just turn that term around and just call it alcohol and just study the science between alcohol and how it interacts with your body and your sleep. And we'll just leave it at that. Like I pass no judgment whatsoever.

I mean, if you ever see me do an Instagram video from my house, you'll see a large wine rack. There's alcohol in my home. My wife drinks, you know, socially and casually. So I have no issue with it whatsoever. I just have an issue with people that don't have any information to know what they're doing. And that's my biggest fear is like, I don't care what you do. Just, just know what you're doing. And with the alcohol thing, if you want to get honestly, even though it wouldn't be good for a lot of situations, drinking it too in the afternoon would be much better than drinking right before you go to bed because it gives you this relaxed state that makes you think, oh, it made me sleepy, but it won't allow you to sleep. It actually keeps you up. So yeah, it's something that those types of things,

learning about the half-life of caffeine. You know, how many hours does that caffeine stay in my bloodstream before it becomes half as effective? It's a very long time. So even though everyone thinks I drink a ton of tea, I do, but it's green tea in the morning. The last green tea is probably around noon, which the caffeine will have a quarter life around 8 p.m. And from that point on, it's all herbal teas that are that are naturally non-caffinated. And so that way I'm not just juicing myself up all day long. And then by the end of the night, I can't sleep. I mean, I have CrossFit every morning at 5.30 a.m. So my alarm goes off at 4.40. I'm a lot. I'm a lot. I'm a in bed every night by 8.30. So I can't afford to be in bed just shaking with caffeine buzz.

I'm drawing the line at caffeine. I drink caffeine up until about 5 p.m. and I sleep like a baby, but I think that's because my tolerance is totally. Totally. And everyone's unique and should experiment on their own and find the balance for themselves. But it's just, like I said, all that matters is just getting some information. And then you're a walking lab kit. Just test yourself. Just find out like, okay, I'm going to write down

last cup of coffee tonight was at 6 p.m. When I wake up, I'm going to write down how is my sleep. Not to mention, how do I feel when I woke up? Just test yourself

and find out your tolerances, your balance, and then go from there. Yeah. And I like, the, I did exactly that with testing. I literally tested myself

and I went as far as to get my blood tested. I went super nerdy on this last year. Oh no, beginning, first half of this year. So I got my testosterone tested and all of my sex hormones tested

at a time when I was drinking alcohol and smoking weed. Like, not a lot, but an amount. It was around Christmas, I think, so it was like,

you know, there was a few times that I would get too drunk or whatever. And I got my blood tested. And then I went through a period where I just smoked weed and then I got my blood tested. So no alcohol.

Obviously, yeah, obviously this is in legal states or whatever, whatever I have to say. Obviously. And then I went for a period where I stopped smoking the weed and I just had the occasional beer which is how I normally am.

Like on tour, I will have maybe one beer after we play, sometimes two, and then one night I will probably have a party per tour. But I got my bloods tested and the time when

I was not the... Oh, sorry, and the last part was where I just didn't do anything. I was like, T-total for a month. I did a month of each thing. And my free testosterone and my normal testosterone were markedly higher in the T-total time.

Still pretty hard. where when I was just smoking weed and super low when I was drinking and smoking weed. Really? Yeah. And it was night and day. And the way I felt as well, everything was just like, and obviously to, not from a, you know, steroids point of view, but to recover from strenuous exercise, you need testosterone to be working enough. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, and that's the thing that I've, I've, feel bad when I speak to anybody about any topic that they're super passionate about. And then when I dig into it, they haven't done any research, any experimentation. They haven't done anything to find out what works for them. And that's all I'm looking for is, it's so funny. All this stuff relates to even business when I'm dealing with somebody who's making an online drum lesson website. The only thing I'm looking for is original thought. I'm looking for, did you, did you think about this or did you just do it? And if you think about it, whether it's how you treat your body, how you exercise, how you practice, did you do some research? Like even practicing drums, did you try doing one hour a day for a week

versus three hours a day twice a week versus 15 minute chunks eight times a day? Like, A, be yourself. Why not? You're a walking lab kit. Just find out what works best for you rather than always asking somebody else, how do you practice? Oh, it worked for, worked for Dave Wechle. I'm going to do that. It's like, but you're not Dave Wekel. And I don't mean you're not good as Dave Wekel. I mean, you're actually not Dave Wekel. So you don't have his life, his experiences to lead you into becoming who you're going to be. So why don't you just test what works best for you whether it. And that same thing when I, I mean, sure, especially because you're into fitness. I know you hear about this stuff all the time. But yeah, man, I'm doing the keto thing. Are you? Why? I have no

idea. But I saw, you know, it's like, someone on Joe Rogan told me. Yeah, totally. I'm like, okay. And are you doing the keto thing? Did you research it or are you just eating cheese and burgers? You know, and that's, it's like, and you're calling it the keto thing, but you don't even know what ketogenic means.

And so that's, I guess that's where I start to have that level of respect either go up or down. I don't know if my respect for anybody ever goes down. I, I, I'm not the kind of person where I ever dislike somebody. I would say you're either, if I had to put people into groups, it's like, I either care about you or I don't. But if I don't care about you, there's no negative feelings. I just don't care. But so my worst enemy in the world, I just don't care.

That's it. I don't, but I never waste any time being angry at somebody. But when I care about you and I respect you, it's generally because I can see that you're searching for something and you're willing to put in the work to find the best results on everything. You know, what camera lenses you use, what color. correction you do on your videos, how you hold your sticks, but you're not searching to rip it off from someone else. You put in the work and said, yeah, no, I did a month of French grip and a month of German grip and I found that the French grip was more applicable to the way that I play and made me feel more comfortable on the kit. Like, oh, it's fantastic. I'm going to stay on the subject

you were talking about for a minute and then I'm going to move into the fitness thing because I love to talk about fitness. Do you not think by this point, you're the Netflix and everyone else is like prime video or whatever. Do you know, does it, is it not transcended? Transcended this. Sorry, your mic cut out. I think you're on Netflix. I think you're on Netflix.

Okay, I appreciate that. There are other, you know, Hulu. You got Hamme's tail. You know, you have to sign up for Hulu just to get that damn show. So. Yeah. And it is good. but most people have Netflix.

Yeah, I think that it was purposely done that way. It's not a level of success. It was done 10 years ago or 12 years ago when I started this. I really, really did spend some time asking myself before I was going to start a business on it. Who am I to the drum world and what do I want to be? And when I thought about, am I an artist? it was a very quick no.

I am not an artist. I am not doing anything on this instrument that is pushing the instrument further. So then if that's the case, when I see somebody like J.P. Bouvet, he's a good person that I said. He's a good example. He does things on the instrument

that I've never seen anybody else do it. It's not harder. He's just pushing the art further than I had seen to be pushed. Mark Giuliana, same thing. Carter McLean, Ari Honeg. Those guys are artists. When I thought about my...

myself at the time, I thought, I'm an explainer. That's what makes me the happiest. So I'm going to be the person or I hope I can become the person that is the home for general education. The paradigil exists. It can't be changed. I will explain to you what it is. Once I've explained it to you, you can go to anyone else's site and learn their artistic approach to the paradigital, but at least you have the foundation to know what the hell the paradigal is or whatever it is. So I've maintained on Mike's lessons, we've always tried to make sure it's not Mike Johnston's take. I just went third person and threw up in my own mouth. It's not my take on the jazz samba. It's more, here is the jazz samba with variations one through three. Once you know these, please go to a

Brazilian drummer's website and figure out what they do with the art of that information. So I would say it was just set up to be, I saw the future as eventually everyone will be doing what I'm doing or at least have the ability to do it. And when they do it, I don't want to be their competition. So my job is to be general education, explain to people how to do it while inspiring them to keep playing. And then I'm okay with somebody saying, hey, just so you know, I just bought this book or I just went and saw Craig do a clinic and I learned so much. It's like, cool. Hopefully the information I've given you allowed you to understand Craig in a better form and take his ideas and actually use them now. Okay. So,

You're the Simpsons. That's it. You're the Simpsons. Then what is everybody else? They're Bob's Burgers, their family guy. You know? Okay, okay. I'll take it.

I'm, yeah, I, I, I just know that I, I enjoy doing it. And it's the one thing that I'm very proud of doing. Like, and what I mean by that, like, if, If you went to a drum festival and somebody just said, okay, just so you guys know, things are a little bit different today, all the artists here, and it's the same festival that we did in the UK, same artists. You guys will all be playing a three-minute metal play-along.

That would bode very well for you and not so well for some others. I'd be the best drummer in the world. Right, okay? So when somebody says, hey, we're going to have you explain your concepts to the crowd, That's how I feel like, dude, home run. This is my dream. I love doing this stuff. I don't feel that I'm better at it.

I absolutely feel that if we could compete with passion, I feel that I'm more passionate about explaining things to people than anyone I've ever met. And that's not me being a dick. And I don't know if that's cussing because that's anatomy. But I feel that I am so passionate about explaining things that I know that that's why I'm good at it. I'm not good at it because I'm good at it because I love it.

And when I see, other people that are great at what they do, they love doing that thing a lot more than I would love doing it. So I have no shot of ever being as good at them at that thing as they are because their passion outweighs mine. You're just a bloody great bloke, Mike. Everything you say it, what can I say to that? What can I say?

You can be mean to me. We're friends. No, that was, everything you say is gold, right? So let's get to something which I'm really good at. Okay. So lifting weights. Yes. You, how long have you been going to CrossFit?

This summer is now a full year. So I've been doing CrossFit 3rd. I'm not really good at lifting weights, by the way. I'm not, no. Oh, I can, I can, yeah, I can see the fake plates that you have and I can see your edits. But it's fine, man. Whatever makes you happy. It's funny, right?

Because in my gym, there is a set of, there's one set of York 45s and we weighed them in there like 42. Oh. So we call them the Instagram plates. Nice. So if you ever see me do something with four plates, usually two of them, there's actually four pounds less. Okay.

If the yorks on it, if there's two that are out of shape, it's the yorks. So you've been doing it for a year. Yep. Any, what was the reason? Not dying early or boredom? That's two options. Yeah, no, it was the CrossFit documentary on Netflix. I watched that to juice myself up for drumming.

I always watch... Is it greatest on earth? Yep. It's fittest on earth. Fittest on earth? Yep. Yeah. So, yeah.

So I thought, okay, well, let me see these people push themselves as physically as far as they can. And that will inspire me, because I was in a slump on the drums for inspiration. I was like, I'm just kind of, you know, my whole day is drums. I'm over it sometimes. So I thought, let me watch this documentary. It'll get me excited about drumming again. And because generally non-druming things are what get me the most excited about drumming. And so that's why I watched it.

And then while watching it, I was like, you know what? I've heard so many bad things about CrossFit. I had experienced a bad, I had a bad CrossFit experience probably three years ago where I walked into the gym. It was total CrossFit Bro Gym. They gave me my one free day. And right away, they were like, all right, 20 handstand pushups. I'm like, what? I can't even do a handstand.

Like, I'm going to get hurt. And we're going to bear crawl out to the two mile marker and back. And I'm like, I don't even know what a bear crawl is. And then they're saying things like, all right, GHD sit-ups. And I was like, you know what? You guys are just way too cool for me. I don't really, this is not the environment I want to be in. So after watching that documentary, I thought, that's the CrossFit I wish I was a part of.

And so I did my research on my local town in Sacramento and just found like, okay, who's getting the best reviews for being supportive of the athletes and in my mind creating like a Mike's lessons of fitness? And it happened to be the highest reviewed one was here in Folsom. I went to go meet the owner and I got exactly what I wanted, which was he said, okay, you have four one-on-one hour-long sessions with me before you can take your first CrossFit class because I have to teach you all of the movements. I have to find out what your body limitations are so that I can scale movements for you. I need to know. And like one of the biggest things was I have no mobility for overhead movements for like

overhead squats because I've spent 35 years in my life hunched forward. That's so I was going to get to that. We'll get to that in a minute. Yeah, so, yeah, so that's kind of how I got started in it was, and then I just fell in love with this. If you're doing 5.30 a.m. classes, those are some committed folks to get there at 530 a.m. And I fell in love with my class. And I'd never had a class environment for fitness before. And I was like, man, I just want to see my friends every morning at 530 a.m.

So that's how it got started. Okay. The couple of things on that, the first CrossFit place that you were, went to is the place that gives CrossFit a absolutely horrible name. Yes. It's the sort of place where they'll put someone in with no training and make them do a hundred pull-ups even if they can't do it. And then that person then has the labrum in their shoulder torn for life and the person

is seriously injured and it's like you need to know your limits and you need to know the movements before you do anything. Yeah. And there has to be a coach there that knows. your limits and pulls you off that and says, okay, we're going to have you do ring rows almost standing up vertical, you know, just so you're doing a back movement along with us, but we're doing the pull-ups, you're doing the ring rows, or whatever it is. I think that's definitely what gives the cult of CrossFit a bad name and what a lot of people make fun of. But the overhead movement

thing, because of hunching forward, I was going to ask, have you found any, pros or cons from starting working out? Yeah, so I, my coach, Kevin, he calls me, I'm Jimbrough fit, meaning that I've always lifted weights to, in a way that would make things look good in a mirror with my shirt off, meaning focus on the chest, do a billion crunches, bicep curls, screw the triceps, you know, and then back, I can't even see my own back. why would I ever work out my back? And legs skip those. We don't need those at all to look good in the mirror. So when I got there, I had worked out my whole life, but it was, like I said, what he called,

I was bro-jim fit, but I wasn't fit at all. So a couple of the pluses that I got out of doing CrossFit was one, my cardio went through the roof for my clinics. When I'm done playing a track, I can grab a mic right away, speak to a crowd calmly, and I'm not out of breath in the So that was a huge improvement for my career. The other thing that was probably the biggest improvement was for me as a teacher. Coming into a situation where I was forced to do something physically that I couldn't do reminded me of what my students are going through when I asked them like on a single stroke roll, guys, I just need you to use your fingers a little bit more.

And they literally don't know what that means. That's what I went through trying to do an overhead squat. And my coach says, hey, on the way up, you got a. pop your hips and I'm like I don't know where the hell my hips are what do you mean pop my hips I don't know what that means can you touch my hips for me I don't know what that you know and those types of things like on a daily basis someone giving me a PVC pipe instead of an actual bar with weights and saying sorry you're just going to have to do the movement 20 times with this PVC pipe because you're going to get hurt if you try it with weights it made me so much more

empathetic with my students that were physically struggling on the instrument because now I know, oh yeah, that's what it's like to have your arms in control of the sticks, but you don't know what's happening unless I videotape you. You think you're playing with your wrists, but I can tell that all of the movement of the stick is coming from your elbow joint because you can't even feel it happening. I'm going through that same stuff with trying to do the Olympic lifts, which I've never done.

I've never done a true deadlift, a true squat, a snatch, an overhead squat. These are all brand new movements for me. So that's been probably the biggest growth thing for me. it's crazy how even in something like this which is physical fitness and we're talking about you know and I ask you what's the biggest takeaway. Your biggest takeaway is still the mental aspect and how it relates to you teaching someone else is amazing. I'm amazed. I literally meant what I was going to say to you is if I do too many stiff leg deadlifts I can't move my bass drum foot correctly to come in on one.

I'm always early. Ah, okay, so... No, your answer was better, but I just thought maybe you would... No, I don't... Say something like, you know, after a heavy workout or whatever. Because people ask me all the time, they're like, how would you go to the gym and then play the drums?

And I'm like, look, it makes me better at the drums. I totally agree. I'm so lubed up. I'm like... Yeah. Well, you know, you and I are in a different place than most people that ask advice from us. And what I mean by that is you and I play drums so much.

And we have the opportunity. We're lucky enough that our life allows us to play drums every single day of our lives that we truly never cool down. When you're dealing with somebody that maybe only gets to play on the weekends, warming up on the instrument is so much more important for that. Like people always ask me, what's your warm up? I'm like, warm up. I haven't cooled down since I was seven.

Like, I have no warm up. Like, I just sit down and play. But that's why. way different than the guy or girl that like I said only plays on Saturdays. It's like, you should be warming up for 20 minutes before you start playing your ACDC tunes or whatever it's going to be. So that's something that I'm always taking into consideration too. When I get a new camper here, the first thing I ask them, what's your day to day like, life like? Like how often are you on the kit? How, you know, all those things come in, because I don't teach with a blanket

statement of, well, this is how it's done. It's like, no, no, no, we're going to have to craft a plan for you. You are different than me. You are different than the person sitting next to you. Give me the information. I'll craft a new plan for you. So I can tell you this. Yesterday was the first time in over a year that our owner, his wife is the co-owner and she's a trainer too. And she took his work key off the key ring to close the gym and didn't put it back on. We all showed up in the parking lot at 5.15 a.m. And everyone was just standing in the parking lot with the owner. And I was like, oh, whoa, what happened? Well, we can't get into the gym. So we do the CrossFit workout outside, and I can barely walk today.

The first thing we did was a quarter mile of walking lunges, followed by a one-mile run, followed by 100 burpees. And I'm in some decent trouble today. Now, I will say this, our coach created that workout based off of the people that showed up to the gym that morning and knew he said, okay, well, I'm going to have to create a workout because we can't get into the gym. and all of you have been here for over six months. All of you show up more than four times per week.

You can handle this. So I'm sore, but I'm not injured. But I can barely walk today. So I don't know how the drums are going to go for me today. So this is one of the first days I've had in a while. I would be interested to know because I'm basically on a quest because I need for my own mental sanity to go to the gym. Ideally, I will go to the gym every day because of the,

the limits of me not being a superhero that is usually I will go to the gym five days a week. And on tour, what happens with the not sleeping that good is recovery doesn't go well. And I end up having to scale back workouts or else my performance suffers. And now I've got it. So I have one split when I'm at home, which is five, six days a week. And then when I'm on tour, I do four days a week. and I do one day on one day off but I have an old student of mine who is a sport

he's now like grown up and he's a sport scientist at Reading Football Club which happens to be the football club that I support but he he's also a drummer obviously and we're just on this quest where there's one the only thing that ever happens to me bad combining fitness and drums is my the timing of my right foot on slow big movements

fast movements are fine if I've done a we've narrowed it down if I've done a lot of hamstring activity which you would think squats but not actually squats mainly deadlift or any kind of like

a GHD sit up or anything like that where there's like a level of hamstring involvement my feet it's like it's like they're in slow motion kind of so my back rushes

to finish the movement if you know what I mean to put to put the kick on one but then it ends up being early I'm talking a fraction early no one in the crowd notices the only person that notices is me

so I did an experiment like you know I'm a big experimenter I did an experiment when we're in the student and I didn't go to the gym once while we were tracking. Oh. And I played so badly.

And the one day I went to the gym, I played great. So I continued to go to the gym. And then I think it was the day after a deadlift exercise, I was bad again. And it was like the strangest. I mean, not bad. It just, it didn't feel right. So I'm always trying to find my level where I can train hard but recover well. Yeah, it's important.

And I think that once again, learning about yourself is still the key. I'm getting a sense of, I mean, most people probably don't know until they actually show up here for camp, but there is no company of micslessons.com. It's just me in a room by myself or in a studio by myself. So it's a lonely day that the camaraderie of having a class is a big part of the reason why I go. They're my friends. I get to see them and socialize in the morning, which I think is important. If I become one of those people that can only speak to a camera but can't shake a person's hand

and look them in the eyes, I'm going to lose part of my humanity. So there is that aspect. And you probably get that at your gym where you just see the same people you always see. And even if it's just being around other people and saying, oh, excuse me, as you guys both grab for a weight, it's still social interaction. So that's very important to me. My dream is crazy, by the way. It's like,

Arnie pumping iron, 70s, people screaming at each other. So I fully agree with that. I love it. Okay. So you have that before you lock yourself in a room and play drums for multiple hours. So that part is very important

just to be a good human being. And then there is the physical aspect of it, but there's also that feeling for the, rest of the day that I did something good for myself. There's a feeling going through your body where it's just an energy that it's so different than that three days off the gym with chocolate chip cookies just sludge that's going through you and the feeling you have. So I'm not, you know, I'm in an age where the shirt's not coming off for the ladies at the show. Like I don't

do clinics shirtless, right? So I'm not doing it for vanity. Can you imagine? Or just like you suddenly do it. Like yeah, did you see Mike Capacic this year? He had his shirt off. Dude, it would be so good. Just after the first fusion track I play. Okay.

I will put, I will, I will. I'm telling you, how about this? If we do a clinic run in the UK, I will just set up one date where we'll put a little cut at the top of my shirt and then right after my first track during the applause, I'll just rip the whole shirt off. And I will not acknowledge that it has. happened. I will just keep moving with the clinic. I'll grab the mic, head up to the front of the stage.

Just be like, oh my God. Even if that happens for like 10 minutes, even if that happens for 10 minutes and then you suddenly put the show on and then you explain the joke, it will be legendary. We'll have to collect everybody's phones as they walk in so that nobody else can see this. But anyway, so I'm doing it to feel good. It does make me feel better. Every once in all, there's a day like today where I'm pretty sore, but for the most part, I feel good. And so there's that. And then maybe this is where you're at and I've never been at, which is because I never lifted for anything other than vanity, I never tracked anything. So there was no forward momentum. There was no progress. I went to the gym, you know, from the time that I was 16 until I was 42 or 41, and I lifted until it was heavy.

but if you said how much do you bench, I would go, I don't know, I don't know, I just keep going until it's heavy because I'm just trying to get a cooler looking chest. Well, now, you know, we've got PRs and, you know, personal records and we're trying to like outdo ourselves and we're trying to level up with our fitness. That's something that's been missing in my life for a long time. The sports that I did as a kid were always singular sports. I raced to BMX bikes professionally. I skated. Did you? Oh yeah, man.

I was on Team Free Agent. Wow. So I actually quit racing to do the drum thing full time. I just, because you can turn pro when you're 18. So I turned pro. There's single A pro and double A pro. I turned pro when I was 18 racing for Free Agent. And then right around 19 or 20, I kind of surveyed the landscape and thought, all right,

the X Games wasn't around yet. And it wasn't an Olympic sport. And I was like, I just don't see any future in this at all. And then my band got a record deal. So I just went that direction. But anyways, all the sports I did, it was just me. There was no team. I either won or I lost.

When I would do skate comps, I either won or I lost. And so I miss that sense of competition in my life where I can push myself as hard as I want. And in our CrossFit workouts, you know, unless it's a team workout, no one can pull me down. And I'm okay with the results. Like, all right. Like, I'll be totally honest and maybe, now real quick before I ask or say this, have you done CrossFit before? I, on tour, when we've toured with someone who does CrossFit, I've gone, I've gone to drop-ins.

Okay. And I've gone, and we've done CrossFit style workouts. Okay. So I've done it, but I've never been part of a gym. That's fine. So you know that our workouts have like an RX weight. Like, here's the workout, the RX weight for the men. is 35s and the RX weight for the woman is 25s, something like that.

Women's RX has been my goal for over a year of I am trying to get to the prescribed weight and reps for CrossFit women. There's some of the fittest women on the planet. And that's one of those things where I just like that personal achievement of like, cool, like that chick is, I have a girl, her name's Heidi. And I only call her by one name. I call her the benchmark. She's my dream.

Like I want to do as many pull-ups as she does, as many push-ups, as many, I want to run as fast as she does. And she's just always, because she's growing as well and she's getting better and she has forward momentum, she's always one step ahead of me. And I love that feeling of like, oh, I almost had you today, Heidi. So, so yeah, so that's kind of, that's how I got into it. And it's why I'm still doing it. And I lucked out and found the right CrossFit gym that is what has allowed CrossFit to grow instead of, finding that the first gym I found

that is what gives it such a bad name sometimes the the like wanting to better yourself and the the PR aspect I think is I'm sort of in between two camps so I

I have drumming that's my drumming thing I love drumming it's my life and then I have the gym and I have the two I have two elements of the gym I have the bro vanity thing except slightly more, you know, I know that I have to train legs and back.

And then the other side of me has like a, I want to be inhumanly strong. And most people don't know that you can be inhumanly strong without looking gigantically jacked. Just look at the

like Russian and Chinese weightlifting team. They just, on the Olympics, they don't look jacked and then they do these incredible things. And vice versa, you can look like you're really strong and not be strong. Yes. And the problem is, so,

it's just, it's called it bodybuilding and it's called it powerlifting. It's separate from CrossFit, but CrossFit sort of combines elements of both. Sure. To bodybuild, you need muscle breakdown. You need the most amount of muscle damage for it to grow back.

And I've found that that actually impedes my drumming much, much more than handling heavier weight for less volume. So, but the thing is when you do, so when I switch, if I switch to a power lifting program, which is more frequency but less volumes or less muscle damage, you don't feel like you've done a workout, I lose that feeling of, oh man, I really mess myself up today. Do you know what I mean? Like when you come out of the CrossFit or whatever. So I lose that, but then you gain some PR stuff.

Right. But it's very, it's dependent on how your recovery is. So on tour, I can't really do that because my numbers don't go up because I'm not eating enough. And I'm playing the drums 10 times harder than I play in my practice place. And then if I switch to bodybuilding, my. my drumming suffers more from bodybuilding, from high volume stuff. So I'm constantly in this battle.

So what I've done now, this is my point, my roundabout point, is, and also you look worse when you're powerlifting. No offense to power lifters, but you don't look like, you don't look like you lift

as much as someone who does bodybuilding. So what I do now is I bodybuild when I'm at home, and then I switch to a power lifting program when I'm on tour. Okay. That I've only recently in the last tour, I've found that that is the answer for me. To be able to perform every night well on tour, this is my goal.

Perform every night well on tour and maintain strength. That's my touring goal. And I finally found it by switching to powerlifting on tour. And then when I'm at home, I do all the bro stuff. Okay. So let me flip the tables on our podcast. We're back to Mike's podcast. Mike Johnson's The Downbeat.

Yes. The upbeat. You're so positive. Welcome to The Upbeat with Mike Johnston. I'm your host. That's going to be the clip that I put on Instagram. Okay, so that's what I was actually going to ask you about. Instagram.

You post yourself lifting on Instagram, but not just in your stories. You actually post it. Now, the only CrossFit stuff I've ever posted has been in my stories. And my vibe is, hey, I just, want to let you know that I'm dedicating myself to something and it's kind of cheeky as far as like I'm going to show you me showing up and I'm always going to show you me at the end in insane amounts of sweat and pain and that's it and it's gone in 24 hours. Okay. Now you post yourself actually lifting in the gym and I'm wondering if you've asked yourself yet or if you know

are you doing that because by making it public it's holding you accountable to keep you doing it physically and get your ass in the gym? Are you doing it because you're trying to inspire somebody? Like, I know you well enough to know you're not showing off at all. Like, it's not that. Because if it was, you'd be facing the camera shirtless. So I know you're not doing that. But there are things that I do on social media that when I reflect on them, I go, oh, that was me holding myself accountable. Like, I just publicly put out practicing a solo for next week's clinic. But I wasn't planning on playing a solo. But now that I've posted it, I'm going to have to practice my butt off to do a solo for that clinic.

So do you know why you're posting this stuff? Yes. Okay. It's a very good question on Mike Johnson's the upbeat. So I will put it up. It started. The first time I put a main one up was a huge PR. Okay.

And then what happened after that was I can't, I think it was my first three in pounds. be 315 deadlift, which is 140 kilos. And... Damn, that's a lot. That was my first big PR. I wanted to hit six plates. So three plates on either side, 345s on either side. Okay.

And I did that and I put it on Instagram. And then it was like, I can't do less than that on Instagram now. Right, right? So I have to bet that next time. And it was like next time, if you go through my post, I think it goes. time is the four plater so the eight plates it was like well the next step is the 405 and then what happened was people were posting that they liked me posting more lifting stuff and it was getting them inspired to go to the gym beautiful so what i did was i just said i'll post i'll set these

goals in my head and then when i reached them it will go on a uh actual feed post and then on the story I post my general training because those people said they like to see the training. Yeah. And then on the actual feed, if it's like a PR. So what I had, my last one I think was a 160 kilo squat, which is 350, 350 pound squat, which was a PR. And the next time you see me post a squat on my Instagram, it will be a 405. Oh, my goodness. Are you really that strong?

You know, when I took you back to my hotel room, I knew you were strong, but you were so just wind up with your alcohol. I didn't really know you were that strong. Yeah, it was fluffy from the wine. You know? It was like, it was a bit of water retention there. Yeah. I was like, he's a little pudgy around the midsection,

but man, I should have just asked you to squat a car out in the parking lot. I would impress the hell out of me. Speaking of water Water retention This here is an actual thing Which is scientifically Something that I've discovered Okay

If you ever do a long haul flight Right And I know you do Which I do these gym Clinics, right And I hate a long Whole flight And you think

I can't be bothered to go to the gym On the day you land Or the very latest The day after But I'm talking before you've slept If you get Let's say you get to Japan You know when you get to Japan

And it's like it's 10 a.m. It's like you can't sleep, you have to stay awake. Japan is a bad example because I'm not allowed into gyms in Japan because they don't allow people with visible tattoos and I would have to wear a turtleneck and gloves. Oh my gosh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's the only place on earth where tattoos are still taboo

because of the yakuza. Anyway, so let's say Australia or whatever. Make yourself go to the gym on that day because the water retention that you get from the flight, from the pressure or whatever, it's like natural creatine, and your muscles are holding all this water. That's why you feel like podgy when you get off the flight

because of the water retention. But most of that is in your muscles, and you will hit PRs. I remember I landed from, I went UK, Japan, L.A. in three days. or something stupid. And I landed and I hadn't, no, it was, it was UK, Japan for five days and then I flew to LA.

Okay. And because I hadn't been to the gym in Japan because I wouldn't let me in, I was desperate and I went immediately from the airport to the gym. And I smashed it. It was unbelievable with the strength. And I think I googled it. And I can't remember if anything came up, but my theory was water-referior. retention came up and stuff like supplements like creatine deliberately give you water retention so your

muscles have more volume to act so do it try it long i'm all over yeah i've got a flight coming up to ireland in in about a month so i'll give it a go what are you doing in ireland uh i've got a i'm doing a couple things so i've got a camp that i'm doing with that i do every year where we rent out a a castle about 30 miles outside of Dublin and it's a camp between myself, Mark Juliana, Robert Sput C-Wright and Ash Sone. Jeez, that's a lineup. Yeah, it's fun, man.

So I put the, uh, there's a store called Music Maker that came to me after I did a clinic in Dublin like four years ago and said, hey, we'd love for you to do a camp here. And I just said, you know what, honestly like I don't take my camps outside of my studio because then why would anybody fly to my studio to, take my camps. I said, but if we can change the camp and not make it my normal camp, then I'm happy

to do it. And so we decided to do a multi-drummer camp. And I thought, like, okay, well, in America, we have these fantasy camps, but you don't really get to hang with the teachers at all. It's more, they're not even camps as much as they're like mini clinics. And then the teacher goes back to their hotel or whatever. I was like, what if the teachers and the campers never separated, really? And we all stayed together and we all ate every meal together. So we started that four years ago. It was myself, Sput and Mark. Then the next year, Sput couldn't do it for some reason with touring or something. So we brought in Ash. Then we did that for two more years. Then last year, we brought a fourth person that was Keith Carlock. And then this year, Keith has a tour with Steely Dan. So we were like,

let's get the OG back. Let's get Sput back in the mix. So now it's myself, Sput, Ash, and Mark. and then Richard Spavin's coming by for a day. So it's a fun camp. It's 21 drummers from all over the world. And like I said, we rent out this castle that they turned into a studio called the Grouse Lodge Studios. And the campers all stay on the grounds and we stay on the grounds of the castle.

And it's a week long. And then on the last day, we all go into Dublin. We do a clinic that's open to the public. The campers come with us and get to be there for sound check and everything. And then I'll go from there to... somewhere else in Ireland that has a big name that I can't remember the name of the city

Cork? No, it's, oh, Belfast. So I'll go to Belfast and do another clinic there and then I'll fly home. But I will definitely, I'm coming into Dublin a day before I need to be at the actual studio so I will find a gym and do a drop-in, like a CrossFit drop-in.

Is your Belfast clinic just you? Yeah. when is it I'll pull up the flyer right now I'm supposed to promote it today so this is a good time for me to find out the details where are you Mike Johnston doing a flyer okay

details are Masterclass and Drum Clinic on August 21st at the Crescent Arts Center in Belfast interesting why how far is Belfast from you well I think it's just like a flight Like

Isn't everything just a flight? Yeah but like I'm talking like a 40 minute flight Oh okay Yeah man I don't know Or maybe I just Just shoot over there

I mean I'm Because we need to do something together Well here's the thing This isn't going to come out for two weeks Just over a week This podcast I can say this

Because it will be announced by then On the 22nd, I'm doing a clinic in Glasgow. Oh, no way. Wait, really? Yeah. Oh, man. Maybe I'll just fly over to Glasgow when we can do a clinic together. I'm going for dinner with Joe from Minel afterwards.

He's coming with me. Brother Joe! And I have a story about Brother Joe that I'm going to tell in a minute and then we're going to wind this up because it's super long. There must be a way that we can hang out. we'll figure it out. Because we're so close. Yeah, we'll figure that out, not live on air. So Joe from Minel, I was just speaking to him earlier,

sorting out this clinic. The 22nd is a Thursday where I'm supposed to be doing, yeah, drama zoni in Glasgow. But anyway, he phoned me on and I was like, I'm about to do a podcast with Mike. And then he was like, and then he told me this story where he did your UK run you traveled around with him and you noticed one day he didn't have a watch and he doesn't he's not he was

like you know just don't have a watch or whatever and then on the last day you presented him and john henry with watches that was inscribed on the back i think it says brother joe on the back it does say brother joe yeah it says thank you for everything brother joe and you presented them to him at the clinic. Yeah, yeah. What a class act. Oh, thanks, buddy. Yeah, man. You know, you're probably one of the few people that know this, but minel, we don't have to go on a huge minel spiel, but minel's a different company. They do things, they do things the way you wish everyone in the world would do things. Bullet point number five is minel. It's all it says on my sheet. I did actually want to talk about this a little bit. Yeah, it's, it's something that, you know, if you're a minor artist, you've been

spoiled for every other company you could work with. And not even companies in the drum industry, you're spoiled for even just going out and experiencing business on a day-to-day level, because Myel just does things the right way from the top down. And one of the things they do a lot of times is, you know, I mean, a clinic tour could be me bouncing around in a rental car by myself trying to find everywhere, or it could be them sending out John Henry or Brother Joe with me. And in my mind, their job, because they're sales reps, their job is not to be my tear cake tear kaker my caretaker needs some more green tea their job is to make sure that i get to the event on time make sure that i get checked into the hotel make sure that all the logistics are

taken care of their job is not to be loading my drum kit and setting up my gear and asking do you need some water do you need food all the it's like i'm i can take care of myself they go so far and above and beyond and then i'm you know when you're done with a clinic then there's this autograph session. Well, after that autograph session, it's usually about 11 p.m. at night. You're just wrecked. And then you see this completely set up drum set. And you're like, and now I got to break down the kit and do all that. Well, they were doing that on a nightly basis. And I just did not want that opportunity to, I didn't want them to think I took it for granted. I didn't want them to think I thought it was part of the deal of being a minor artist. It was just like, man, you guys, I know that you think it's your job, but it's

really not your job. You're going above and beyond. And I just want to say thank you. And so, yeah, So I went out to, it was actually in Glasgow, and I just, you know, I asked the shop owners, I was like, do you guys have watch shops? Like, I'm not going to buy them Rolexes, but do you have nice watch shops? Where can I find some watches? And then I just took both of their personalities and their vibes and their and their looks into consideration and try to find them both unique watches that looked great for them and got them inscribed. And then, yeah, it was fun.

And I just wanted them to know I appreciate them. It's a nice watch. I have seen the watch and commented on the watch. Oh, nice, man. Another one of those times where Joe's gone above and beyond. He lives fairly close to me. Like, I'm talking 20 minutes away. So he, whenever I do a drum cleaner by something of a minor,

he just picks me up. I don't even drive anywhere. It's amazing. And I was like, oh, nice watch. He was like, oh, Mike Johnson bore me out. I was like, oh, cool. Yeah, so. But yeah, he's a sales rip.

Right. It's like, dude, you don't need to be doing this, but that's how minor roles. And also, the company's pretty small in terms of personnel. Yes. So they kind of feel more than the roles that they should. Not that they have to, but they're like. You know what, though? It's so trickles down to the product and every aspect of it because John Henry and Joe and

Ollie from Germany and all the great reps in the U.S., them being on the road with us for our clinic tours, they're getting the true ins. I mean, we have, you know, six hour drives between from one clinic to the next. They're getting the true vibe of what do we think about the product, what do we wish was better, what do we wish was different, what are we loving about their social media, what are we hating about the social media? They have all that stuff that they can take back to the Minel Home Office and say, okay, I was just on the road with Onica for, you know, two weeks in China. We're pretty close now. Here's what she thinks about this. And it's not like spilling the beans. It's like here's what our artists are feeling right now about the product,

about the company, about the vibe, all that stuff. And so I think it's just what makes Minel a family rather than just a company. I love it. The moment, I mean, I've been, I've been with Minil nearly, it will be 10 years in September, I think. Wow. But, but it was like, you know, it wasn't three symbols until maybe five years. years ago, six years ago. And I always, you know, I went with Minal because I loved the symbols and I always loved the symbols or whatever. But it wasn't until I asked Norbert, hey, I kind of want to come to the Minal Drum Festival

this year. You know, do you reckon you can put me on the guest list or whatever, you know, I'll just sort out, whatever. And then his reply was like, yeah, these are the dates, just one hotel room. and I was like, what? And then he was like, will it just be you, or is it you and your white,

and all this stuff? And I was like, okay, yeah, it would just be me. And he was like, okay, and then he was like, and is it this airport? And I was like, you know, I'm not going to play, right? Right, right, right. And then Norbert just books me in the hotel with all the guys that are playing.

Sort of. That I didn't know any of them. Sort of out my flight. Sorts out my flight, sorts everything out. And then, like, I'm just treated like an artist. for the whole weekend. Dinner, everything. Well, I got to say, though, props to you,

you signing 10 years ago, that's not showing up late to the party and going like, no, no, I heard Minel's cool now. I mean, you signed when it was a risky time when Minel was not the cool kid at all. Oh, no, it wasn't. It was just, I knew Chris Adler from Lamagod played Minel, and I loved the way his splashes and his ride bell sounded.

And I was like, okay, that's the company, done. Does that not go straight back to the beginning of this entire podcast about sometimes you just, the cool factor wins out. And Chris Adler was the cool guy. He played the stuff. And so it was like, well, I don't even know what Minol, Zilgin, Piste, Sabian is. I just know that he plays those. I'm going to play those. And that's why every company needs to have that ambassador where it's like, man, I don't know enough to make a choice.

But that person knows enough. and I'm going to play what they play. And now you're doing that for young drummers coming up now. You're the Chris Adler to them. So it's an amazing cycle. But I will say that when it comes to gear, I would never say that Mino makes the best product. They just make one of the products that you get to choose from.

I don't care whether you like it or not. Just play it. And if it's for you, great. If not, no big deal. I will say as a company, they're hard to beat. They have some of the smartest human beings on the planet working there and they care about every single artist. I've been told directly from A&R, you know, in Germany and in America,

why they didn't sign somebody. And it was because of their personality. And they thought it wouldn't be a good fit with our family, even though that person was killing it in the drum scene. They're collect. How the hell am I on there? Maybe I just got lucky like 10 years ago. Because I post things that are not very professional all the time.

You don't have to be professional. You just have to be a good person. I think that even, you know, you can be a potty mouth. You can be whatever. You can be outlandish. But deep down, I just remember this. I asked somebody at minel, hey, I'm surprised you guys didn't sign that person.

I know that he was looking to get a minor endorsement. And they said, how would that have gone if that person was backstage with you, Yost, Benny, and Matt Halpern and JP? at the Minel Festival you played. I'm like, oh, it'd have been a nightmare. And they're like, that's why we didn't sign them. And it was just something where I thought. Who was it?

Oh. I already told you. Didn't you get the text? I sent it to you? It was Bob Schmeckenmeier from... Oh, oh, okay. I have no idea. Amazing power lifter.

Terrible drummer. Bob Schmecemeyer's killing it. Hey, he's, but no, it's one of those things where they're collecting a group of people, not a group of let's go to war with our best drummers. You know, and, I mean, if you think about it from a company level, if one artist had to represent the company with Minel, you could just throw, you know, throw a coin and whoever it hit,

I'd be fine with that person representing us. You know, you may be a little bit Craig sometimes and you go full Craig, Craig, Craig, but I wouldn't mind if somebody said, yeah, I met a minor artist, who was it? Craig Reynolds, like, yeah, man, full minel guy. He's a minor guy. He gets it. Would you be embarrassed at all if Anika Nillis represented all of us? Hell no.

God, no. We can't even play a tenth of what she can play. She's well-spoken. She's polite to everybody. Fantastic. She can represent us. Thomas Lang represents us. Fine.

He shows you what no human should be able to do on the instrument. Benny Greb represents us. Yose-Nickel. you just go down the list of the minor artist roster and it's just the good guys and girls of our industry. So it's something that's pretty special for sure. And I'm glad that John Henry and Brother Joe didn't throw their watches away. Oh, they certainly didn't, mate. And I'm glad to be part of the family.

I wonder if I would be allowed to be part of the family if I hadn't done it so long ago. I think actually it's a testament that I only said the F-bomb once and only 75% of the F-bomb. That's pretty good. I can... Listen, minor, I can do this, right? I can change. I'm a chameleon.

Yeah? I can do... Absolutely. I mean, after seeing you play that jazz tune, I was like, dude, this guy can do anything he wants. I was like, this guy must have moved the track forward. Yeah. So he could be in... Whatever.

That's what that slip function on Pro Tools is for. Grid is for children. We don't... With grids, come on, Russ. Step up your game. Slip the track. That, yeah, that's me, Russ. And we're going to leave it here because it's two hours long and you've been fantastic.

And I think we've, you know, we rounded it up nice. We did. We covered a few things. You got anything? You got anything you want to plug? Anything you want to say? Oh, God, no. I hate plugging anything.

Check out the Minal Groove bell comes out in a couple months. No, I have nothing. Is that your cowbell? Whoa, whoa, that is literally a plug. Yeah, that's a, it comes out. soon, but we'll take care of that on our own. No, I think what I want to close. 20,000 listeners

a month here. Whoa. We're talking. Yeah. That's the Mike's Lessons.com shit. Oh, no. Wow, you double whammyed. Okay. Right at the end. Right at the end. Do you want me to join in and partake on your cussing so that you can feel better?

I mean, that's what the drinking thing. I would love to hear Mike Johnson cuss. It has been so fucking great to be on this podcast. Oh my God. And just like that, they made him sign to Sabian. Just like that, boom. His career was over. Yeah, the UFIP transition ride is coming out next week.

It's going to be amazing. It's going to be amazing. Let's stop before we actually ruin our careers. Getting some trouble. Brother, thank you for having me, man. Hey, thanks for coming on. I wasn't, I wasn't sure. I was a bit nervous to ask you because I thought you'd say no,

but then I sort of read the DMs and I was like, this guy's going to say, yeah. We're boys, man. I would do anything for you. Anytime you're here in Northern California, you've got a place you can stay at my house. And yeah, we will talk about the Glasgow thing. And if not, um...

I would love that to happen. I think it'd be cool to, uh, you play, I know you play minel, but you play Vic Firth. What are your heads? I play nothing the same as you are than mine all. Okay. Well, that's the plan. I'm trying to get together a clinic tour with Eddie because we play nothing at all.

And we're going to call it the Play What You Love tour where the whole point is we don't share endorsements. And so it's like, just play what you love. I don't care what you play. I don't want this to be sponsored by anybody. But if me, you and Eddie could do a few dates, I think that'd be a blast. Oh, my God. It would be such a good hang as well as everyone drumming. Well, that's, hang on.

Yeah. What do you play sticks? Are you still Aquarian head? Aquarian heads, Vader sticks, Gretsch drums. Wow, we're all so different. I'm Tamer, Vic, Evans. What's the other thing that I play? Oh, mine or symbols.

Such a good company. I talked about them so much. I talked them out of my brain. Yeah, I mean, I think just something like that, the goal would be maybe to show the crowd, the fun that the three of us have, when maybe some of the crowd thought we would be competitors for each other because we're clinicians. Yeah, and it's like, no, man.

Like, if the three of us can be friends and have this much fun, you should be doing this with three or four drummers in your local town. And you should be going to each other's houses. That's how you discover gear. You go, oh, that's the Pearl Demon Drive? Awesome. I've never had a chance to play it. Well, your buddy has it.

Go play his kit. And then, you know, your other friend has minal symbols. You've never experienced those. Go try those out. And so that's what I'm hoping to bring to the UK, just for making me a quick run. On one last point on that, it's like, I have talked trash for a joke, for comedic effect on certain things to people on this podcast. But at the end of the day, and I've said it before, in the sort of top four companies of every product, of every type of product, like drum, symbol, stick or whatever, no one is bad. and everyone has at least one thing

that they do better than another one. It's just taste. It's just, I mean, it's, it's just flavors of ice cream. I can't tell you that chocolate sucks. Like, I can't tell you that vanilla sucks. Whatever you like, you like it. And all I would ask,

I mean, being a non-endorced drummer is a beautiful thing. You can have a minel ride, a Zildjian crash, Sabian high hats, and a picey china. You have the freedom to do that. You should find out what you like. Now, I know we have to run. your mortgage.

But yeah, of course. You did ask me one question off air, which is the only question you didn't ask on air. I have my top five list of favorite artists. We're not going to explain them. I'm just dropping them. Amazing, yeah, just give me the rundown. Okay, no particular order. Faith no more.

Amazing. Laura Mavula. Phil Collins? What? She's UK. Laura Mavula. You will, she'll change your life, man. Okay.

amazing. Do you know Troy Miller, the drummer? No. Okay. Do you ever get out of the house? To get to the gym. Okay, so Faith No More. Laura Mavula, Phil Collins, Sting, and the Deftones. What a lineup. That's like a lollapalooza lineup.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, for Sting, we do need to talk about some of these quickly. I'm sorry. We need to just a small amount of talking about these. Okay. So Faith No More album. Yes. Favorite one?

Faith No More would be Angel Dust. Ooh, interesting. Mine is King for a Day. Yeah. King for a Day is up there. I would say Angel Dust and King for a Day go back and back. Album of the year has brilliance all over it. But Angel Dust is the one that changed my drumming the most and made me a big fan of Mike Borden.

And I feel like that's the best. drum production. I agree. And then I, you know, on King for a day, I think there's like a different guitarist on almost every track. So, but, but there's so much brilliance on that one, too, and great drum parts as well. Okay. Phil Collins I listen to when I'm cooking, but that's fine. It doesn't matter. A lot of people do that. What was number four? I had Sting. Let's talk about real quick. How good is Josh Fries? He's not bad at the drums at all. He, he, Love him. Dude, he's just amazing.

And his personality is even more amazing. His social media is a blast to follow. And he's taking us inside things that we just wouldn't see. You know, when you see a drum cam from a Sting concert, you're like, what? Sting allowed that? This is amazing. But he jokes around, like, shouting at his drum tech and stuff. He was like my role model when I was like 15, 16, when he did a perfect circle.

But he was still in the vandals. And I was like, love punk and I love metal and he is doing both of those and crushing it so when I was when I was recording in my touring days and we'd have to obviously do our albums that was the biggest fear you could those were the scariest words ever hey Josh freeze is here like okay you're getting replaced because he was the ghost drummer playing on everyone's albums and he'd get paid to not use his name on the album so you'd see like some 41 or whoever it was and they would say who their drummer was but it's like, no, that was Josh Freeze.

I'm not saying Josh Freeze did a Sum 41 album, but it was at the time, it was like that. And so if Josh Freeze was even anywhere near the building of whatever studio you're in, it was like, oh, you're in trouble, you're getting replaced. Because he'd walk in, listen to the take one time and be like, you want me to do it real quick? And he just knock it out, knock out the whole album.

So yeah, Josh is amazing. Sting, I would say... Which favorite song? Which favorite song? I just need the song. Ooh, favorite song. that's probably it would be

oh come on biscuits and buttercups it's in four I will tell you that most people think it's going to be one of his 7 8 or 5 8 songs Oh seven days is unbelievable I feel like that's mine

Okay so so if you were to ask me What's your favorite drum part In a sting song? It would be that Vinnie on 7 days Yes Because it's just It's just the best

My favorite sting song ever is called Matt About You from the Soul Cage's album. I'm going to listen to seven days when I cooked dinner in a minute. I've actually got two more things. Okay. Longest podcast in the history of the world. It actually is the longest podcast on the downbeat. It is by three minutes, actually.

You are the longest now. Sweet. So, Death Tones. Yes. Favorite Death Tones album? Still White Pony. Yeah. It's the best.

Yeah. I mean, it's, there are songs that I wish, from other albums that I wish were on White Pony because they're like some of my favorite songs of all times by the Deaf Tones. But White Pony is just, it was a game changer for everybody. It's set the tone for everybody. There's a song called Back to School on there, which Chino was literally telling every deaf tones want to be artist in the world. Children, we're going to take you back to school.

I'm so sick of you ripping our stuff off. I remember hearing the demo for Back to School. Abe showed it to me on that tour that I was telling you about with Travis Barker and Taylor Hawkins and everything, Abe pulled me into his bus and said, you got to hear this. We just did a demo. It's called Back to School. It's going to be on our next album called White Pony. And we're taking these kids back to school because we're sick of everybody ripping us off.

And it was amazing. So I love around the fur. I love the Diamond Eyes. Simpsons. Exactly. They're the Simpsons. Exactly. Yeah.

Now you get my analogy. Now I get it. Boom. You're the Simpsons. Me and the Deftones. You and the Simpsons are the Defones. The, right, I don't want you to shit talk. Okay.

I know you don't do shit talking because you're the equivalent of Switzerland. Because I'm the Simpsons. No, you're the Swiss Simpsons. Okay. By that, I mean, you have armed neutrality. Yes. You have the power to destroy both sides in a war and you do nothing. But I shouldn't.

yeah exactly so gore the deaf tones the new album the last album what the fuck is going on with the production I'm sorry

that's the third that's the third is okay so that is exactly what the deaf tones do the deaf tones do something that we all hate

two years later we realized that it was brilliant everyone copies it and by the time that everyone has finally copied the deaf tones The deaf tones come out with something new for us to hate and then copy within two years. I guarantee they've planned it out.

But sometimes they don't always hit the mark. Gore is... The gore is deaf tone St. Anger. Yeah, there you go. There it is. Yeah, I mean... The problem is... It's just they've gone from having the best drum sounds of all time and then they've had the worst drum sound of all time.

Yeah, and I think, like I said, there's nothing that they do on an artistic level that isn't calculated. And so whether we agree with it or not, I know it would have been a plan for them. Like, they don't slip up. There's not like, oh, man, did you forget to mix the drums? Oh, it's already out. Like, it's all calculated. I know. I'm not privy to what the thought was.

So my Swiss... The songs are great. Yeah. my Swiss response to that is well I would say let's wait two years but it did come out in 2016 so my Swiss response is you win some you lose stuff

exactly you can't be the deaf tones all the time but I still love that album I love everything they do I don't care I don't care what you say with your negativity Prayers Triangles is phenomenal just give me that white pony drum sound on everything you ever do it's kind of the same with there's a metal band called Gojira and they've always had the

they're incredible, the drummers incredible but they've always had the best metal production in the world and then the last one it was slightly down a notch and originally I was like hang on you can't do this and then after a bit of one my dog is actually talking about this as well right now

and it's fired up and then the more I got to know out I was like yeah okay I see what you're getting at I don't know I've just taught myself out of this conversation. Anyway, the last thing I have to talk about. I have the last thing. And we have to go back because I forgot to say it when we were talking about the drums and the fitness thing.

But I think it might help you. You mentioned the hunched over thing. Yes. And not being able to do overhead stuff. Have you ever heard of a Thericane? Nope. T-H-E-R-A-Kane, right? Okay, I'm looking it up right now.

The problem you probably have, I don't know if you've got when and got this checked or whatever, is you have rolled forward shoulders. Yep, that's exactly it. Years of playing the drums. And what will most probably have happened is that you have trigger points in your scapular, your spanatus, your terris minor, right?

These are all fancy words for the muscles around your shoulder blades, right? Okay. And you've more than likely, because I have it and had it, you've more than likely got these trigger points in those muscles, right? And a thericane is a thing that basically allows you to press on those points over your shoulder. It looks like a big cane thing. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. And you apply like 60 to 90 seconds of pressure, and it's the strangest thing.

So it will be in the back of your shoulder. And once you hit this tender spot, you'll feel it exactly in the front of your shoulder, which what the part that hurts when you do an overhead movement but you're not actually touching that thing they're just connected by nerves and the lack of mobility and the pain is i would put a hundred dollars on that you have trigger points in your infraspinatus and your spanatus the rotator cuff muscles if you get one of these they're like 20 bucks maybe it's already no it's already on it gets here on Tuesday. Oh, technology, right?

And look up, rotate a cuff, ferricane pressure points. Okay. Trigger points. I'll actually send you a link. I really appreciate that, man.

It changed my life. I have a thing where I like can't move basically my upper trapezeus, my, you know, my trap. For people that don't know, that's the muscle that attaches to your neck. It's sort of like what most

people think of as shoulders, but it's not. I can't move my left arm outwards. I couldn't. Outwards without that muscle doing all the work. And basically, that was affecting me playing like a left-handed crash. This was before I even went to the gym. I just had trouble doing that.

And when I found out that I just had these trigger points, loosen those muscles up, now that baby's free. Now that baby does what he wants. Wow. And I'm excited about this. I think you could, probably get to a stage of overhead mobility where you could do it.

Well, count me in, man. I'm doing it. I really appreciate that. Like I said, I just ordered it. And I will let you know. I will, on my story, I will post my first true overhead squat once I have the mobility to do it. Here's the thing as well about the thericane.

It really hurts. And you can put the smallest amount of pressure. And if you have that tenderness there, what will happen? it's more than likely your left side. Okay. Because that's your snare drum side. I don't know if you're the same as me, but it was because it's my snare drum side.

If you put the Thericane into it and it has like a, it's really, really tender to the touch. If you go and you try and do it on the other side, you'll probably notice it's not as tender. That means you for sure have that problem. You might have it on both sides, but I only had it on my snare drum side. Because that arm is consistent.

consistently forward and elevated. Wow, that's so cool. I'm really excited. I mean, that was exactly, so my coach noticed that right away. And he, without even asking, like, he didn't know what I did for a living. He's like, what do you do for a living? I said, I'm a drummer. And he's like, oh, my God, how long have you done that?

I told him he's like, we've got 35 years of forward hunch that we have to undo. And he can be done. He was a hockey player. So he's like, I had to go through it too because I was always hunched over with a hockey stick. and he's like you can get all that mobility back. So I appreciate this man. I will check this out. One last question for you right now.

And you can bring your world of rock into it. So it doesn't have to be like the most technical guy, but favorite metal drummer. Not the best. Favorite. Do you know the guy that plays for Sepulchura now? Well, he's my guess. So yes, Eloy is the man. He might be the best drummer.

on Earth and I'm not kidding. He is not only the best metal drummer but There's nobody If it had to be a cage match He would be my choice against anyone on the planet I'm not kidding I've told people I'm like if he played with any different

dynamic This would He would own Instagram He'd own the entire drum world It's just the fact that he's hitting so hard That people just don't Sorry I'm cutting you up Have you seen the modern drama DVD that he's on?

You mean when he's 13? Yeah, and he's doing all that Afro-Cuban stuff. No, he's, well, it's all Brazilian stuff. He's from Brazil. I mean, he's doing both. But it's, I didn't know he had gotten that good. And then we did a quick run in Mexico together. And he was scheduled to open for me.

And after sound check, I was like, okay, no one told me that you were the greatest drummer on earth. There's no way you're opening for me. Like, you have to headline this whole thing. and he's so humble and so kind and yeah I was actually hoping I could bring him to your attention if you weren't watching him a lot Were you going to talk about him?

Oh he's my guy He's my favorite metal drummer of all time Absolutely But he's also in Mike We're both on the same page with him I'm so stoked that you said that So now we're brothers for life Thank you for having me as a guest on your podcast

This has been the upbeat with Mike Johnston My guest Craig Reynolds Hang on Hang on hang on hang on Hang on, hang on. Hang on. Have you ever heard Gojira? No, I have not. Okay. Mario from Gojira is my number two. Okay. Okay. Thank you for bringing somebody into my world.

I'm going to send you a Thericane link and I'm going to send you a link of what exercises to do and I'm going to send you the best Gojera song. And I will send you a tea infuser. Fantastic. Right. Beautiful. Mate, this has been amazing. Let's stay in touch about this potential. hangout. Absolutely, my friend. Thank you. In all honestly, thank you for having me as a guest on your podcast. I love the format.

I love what you're doing. I've loved it. Sweet buddy. Nice one, mate. Take care. Better, brother. Bye.