The Downbeat - POISON THE WELL: Metalcore's Prodigal Sons RETURN.

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

My guests on the podcast this week are Jeff Moreira and Chris Hornbrook of Poison The Well. Poison The Well almost single handedly defined what Metalcore is today and they are BACK with their first album in 17 years. We talk about what led to the hiatus, what led to the reunion, the new album and much more.

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with Shopify. Empezae. And then you euro al-mess in shopify.com.s. What's up, guys? Welcome back to the Downbeat Podcast. Now, disclaimer. Everything I'm about to tell you that's in this podcast might not actually be in the podcast. Reason being, I'm recording this before the guests get here, because I'm a little bit busy today. I know what I'm going to ask them, so I'm sure this will be fine. If it's not, no refunds, no take-y-backsees.

My guests this week are Jeff and Chris of Poison the Well. Poison the Well are a genre-defining metalcore band, one of my favorites of all time, certainly when I was growing up, some seminal albums, and they are back after 17 years with a new album piece in place. We're going to talk about the new album piece in place, I hope. We're going to talk about the old albums. We're going to talk about their impact on metalcore, what they think of metalcore as it is today. I'm going to dissect some of these lyrics that when I was a little boy crying about the girls and that, then they really helped me sort of in-sell, pre-in-cell, in-sell, can I say in-sell on YouTube?

We're going to find out that. You're going to find that out. If you can see this, I was allowed to say it. Before we get started, I want to let you know we have a Patreon, patreon. patreon.com forward slash the downbeat. On it, you get early access to episodes. You get early access to merch. You get discount codes for merch.

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www. Downbeat. At the downbeat. So it spells downbeat. Please, as ever, this episode is brought to you by the wonderful people at Neural DSP. Whether you're in a revival metalcore band

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Check it out. It's Poison the Well on the Downbeat podcast. Are you okay? Yeah. Are you tired? No, not at all. I can't get reading me. I'm like, does he want to be here?

I do. I've just like, I've never. He's ever done a podcast before, basically. I've never done one of these. Yeah. And yeah. So it's like my worst nightmare is allowing me to talk to the world. No.

No. Yeah. Are you nervous? Yeah. Super nervous. I feel like people have a perception of me because I've just never been around enough. But I don't know. I'm always fucking eating shit.

So I feel like it's going to be like. He would be like, oh, fucking, I thought he was a brooding, look, fucking, like, sad guy and a motherfucker. You wrote the lyrics. Yeah, yeah. People want to connect. You're allowed to be both. Okay.

You could be goofy. Jeffrey, nobody cares about drum beats. People care about lyrics. That's what they want. This is true. I really fucked up with the branding with the drumsticks and the podcast because everyone's like, oh, the drum podcast, yeah? And I'm like, no, it's like a metal podcast.

Yeah. Anyway, thanks for coming on the downbeat. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's been a minute. We've been talking. about this for a while and it finally happened. Yeah.

Courtesy of Tom Williams. Good old Tom Williams. Two in a row, Tom. Yeah, we'll see how many more you get. Maybe even three, it might have been three episodes in a row with a Tom William's shout out. This podcast is sponsored by. Tom Williams, a gold theory man.

What are you doing in Nashville? Rehearsing. At this like Amazon sized warehouse fulfillment center that's a studio, there's like, there's like arena buildouts and shit, it's fucking crazy. Sound Rock? Sound attack. There's two next to each other. One's called Sound Summing and one's called Rock.

I think it's Rock. Yeah. Rock Nashville. Why are you here? Because you're not playing a show here. Well, I think originally we wanted to go to Omaha because he lives in Omaha. And he just had a kid. Congrats.

So instead of having him go all the way to California, we were like Nashville seemed like it made the most sense. Plus pulling audio and lighting and buses and all that shit. Yeah, I think all of our was in the bus here. and gear. I don't know, just seem like a nice middle ground for everybody. Yeah.

Because, yeah, I've been having to go to California for us to do like rehearsals. And you can't revolve it with the floor. Well, they've been doing, you know, everybody's been trying to like accommodate my,

my life into the band, which I appreciate. And, you know, this was a, I gave me a couple extra days at home. First kid. First kid.

You had 17 fucking years to do that. Yeah. It took a long time to, find the person that, you know, I wanted to spend the rest of my life with and have a baby. No, but it took, you know, it took a while. The best thing is, brain kicked Dana. You had 17 fucking years. The best part is we were talking.

We were like in an hour conversation. I don't know where he's like, I'm going to have a kid. Yeah. You're like, what? This is like a few months after the opposite tour. I was like, that's awesome. It's a time we're about to go record. Like, you're good?

And you're like, you're going to be able to manage all this? Yeah. He's like, yeah, yeah. He's like, once again, I'm taking a page out of Tom Williams being able to like balance all this stuff. Which he has kids. He has kids. With fucking like the circus act with the plates on sticks. Dude, he's like a master addict.

He has kids. So, you know, one of the conversations we had, he was like, we'll make it work. He doesn't know how to do it. Strait could have carried on going. We just got to a point where we weren't going to do it. But he could have done it. He was doing it good. He hated it.

It's hard. This is the first trip away. So we just did four shows in Florida. So that was the first time that I've been away. Anybody walk up to me. I'm like staring at my phone watching videos of way. His name's Wayland. Wayland.

Yeah. Watching videos. Yeah, I would just be like standing around doing nothing and I'd find myself like staring on my phone. Dad life too. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like at the same time too, like poison well is massively important to me and to be

able to do something I love and then also helps me provide for the future of my family is insane. Yeah, it's great. Has it changed you? I think it will change me more. Yeah, I mean, you know, you think about being responsible for another human being and how they're going to grow up and, you know, how they're going to be. I think about that more now that I would have before without having a child in my life. So a lot of those, like, important decisions and discussions that I have to have my wife about, like, how we're going to raise our child. I think that that stuff is, I think that that'll help me grow as a person in all aspects

of life, right? You know, I would... It's beautiful, man. It's really beautiful. Everything's a teaching moment. You're beautiful. Not to bring it back to Tom. Not to bring it back to Tom Williams, right?

I think the only thing. I noticed when he had kids. Like one of the reasons I asked if it changed you, other than obviously just wanting to know. Yeah. Was, um, me and Tom used to have this bit when we'd be on flights, going to a tour or like South, Southeast Asia or something like insane early wake up,

get on the flight. And we'd both just be like, I hope this fucking plane goes down. Like, and that was it. And then I tried it. It was not long after his first kid. And I was like, man, I hope this fucking pain crashes.

And he was like, bro, I'm really scared. And he like developed this fear of flying. I was like, what the fuck? You changed. And he was like, I got, kid now. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I can relate to. Yeah, I can, I can relate to that. There have been moments where, like, I haven't been able to sleep because I think of every possible horrible thing that could happen at any point. One of them specifically being, I have like a, like a knife

block in my house. And like I, like two months ago, I went to reach for the sharpener and it snagged. and it kind of fell and my wife was standing next to me and the knives didn't fall out but in my mind I'm just like oh like what if he goes and like pull something and then there's a horror movie scene it's just stuff like that like freaks me out

like every little thing in the house has now become like a weapon like a final destination yeah childproof that shit now dude yeah I don't know how to do that cover everything and rubber you say you were worried that people not coming across like the lyrics you come across like the lyrics.

Immediately straight out of the day. I was like, oh, yeah, that's the guy. Okay, so you're in Nashville rehearsing for this tour with Converge. I might as well kick it off. I've got questions, guys. I'm a professional. Yeah, yeah. I only decided to be a professional about three episodes ago.

Yeah. So you get professional me. Whether or not you like it, I don't know. So touring will converge for me personally and a lot of other people, that seems like a meeting of two of the greatest metal core acts of all time. is this how many times have you crossed paths before a few times i mean we haven't played a ton of shows with converged we crossed paths more with them at chris ross's place in jersey yeah they would stay uh every once in a while we just end up staying at chris ross's house who played drums for nora

and they would be there um i think we played what was that the health fest 2000 they played um um hey breed the apee tour the piccy show it was like us a breed uh hey breed uh converge sworn enemy. Oh, I know the one, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you've never, like, it's never happened as at all. Never happened. Yeah, because I looked for it.

I was like, sure, I didn't talk together. Yeah. Jake did opposite of December's artwork. Yeah. Did the logo that we've been, we still use? Yeah, we still use it. That's Jake. Yeah.

Oh, awesome. I didn't know that. Some reason in my head I thought it was Derek Hess. I can see that. It had the Derek Hess. Yeah. Sorry, Jake, Bam. No, that was there.

Jake did that. So it was like a huge thing, like for us when we were, you know, got the green light that everybody was down to do this tour. And it's a perfect time too. Like we both have any records out. They got two. They got two, bro. They just released the second one today. Oh, for real?

Yeah. Like surprise drop second out. Oh, dude. This is the thing with Surprises did a surprise drop. Now Converges doing a second. Straight from the path last year. Are you approaching the set list differently given it as a tour we converge and they're like, you know, a different side of the same coin in metalcore.

They bring one thing, we bring another. And I think, at least for me, the way the set seems is we're leaning into us, right? Instead of trying to necessarily compete with them, they need to do what they do. And it's great what they do. But I also think we need to kind of do what we do, you know? Yeah. So we're not choosing to play, like, heavier songs purposefully. Good.

That's what I was hoping you say, because if you played all your heaviest songs and converge all all the heaviest songs are, like, I'm an old man now. I'd be like, give me one of the light ones. Yeah. Give me just a light one now. We did take out the really light ones. Yeah, yeah. So you did.

Well, more so because we're also trying to diversify our portfolio. Because we've been playing, I feel like we've been playing some of the same songs or have played a couple of the songs a little, like already on a couple tours. So trying to throw out like a couple songs we haven't played. Plus, we're adding a couple new songs, not. too many. Yeah. Just enough. How many is just enough? Give me a taste. Three or four. Yeah. That's just, that's right now. That's the right amount. Yeah. I think, I think for a new record, you got to give people time to kind of figure out what it is instead of bashing, you know,

them over the head with like, oh, here's half a set full of new songs. Let it marinate a little bit, you know? Gives us time to figure out, like, what songs people like. I got a gift for you. I was going to save it for the end. I'll do it now. I don't know if any of you are sentimental or you, You can either both say I don't want it or you can, you can fight over it. Now I'm worried. What is it? Okay. So the last time I ever moshed was Poison the Well.

Where at Newport T-Js. Ooh, Newport T-Js. Right. Newport T-Js. In Wales. It was the last time I ever moshed. And I broke my nose. You're going to give us a splint.

In the pit, no. But I went back to my parents for Christmas. us. And I remember, after I broke my nose, I was like, I'm going to remember this. And I took the poster. I have that. You already have that. You already have that in my house. Me too. Thank you. Thank you. No, that's so sick because I can keep it now. Yeah. Well, I was I'm going to say, if you want it, I'll frame it and put it up in our studio. But if you want it, it's yours. I'm fucking. Yeah. Yeah. You already have it. So I kept most of anything that I could get my hands on throughout twilight except for vinyl i gave away all of my vinyl the one um the month's expensive

i i didn't know i i had given them away like before i collected any vinyl too so i had i just had like i would i've moved a lot in the past couple years and i would have to like lug around all these like tubs full of i've done it post posters and shirts and vinyl and friends would come over and i'd be like drunk and be like oh lots of poison wall vinyl yeah and then and then the Dickheads who knew that they were worth stuff, you know, were like, oh, let me get an extra one. And I'm like, yeah, no problem. Here's a bunch of opposite of December's. Like, don't got, and I don't have.

Like first pressing trust kills. Yeah, yeah. I had like a bunch of stuff and all that stuff is gone. I actually paid like $150 for like versions to get it back. Yeah. I was like, oh, I want to get these back. And I forgot somebody was like, just told the dude who's selling it that you're in Poison the Well.

And I was like, man, that's rough. Dude, I was like, I'm not going to do that to him. And so yeah, I bought that one. And then somebody, like, gifted me. I traded somebody a test pressing for a you come before you, like original. But you still need opposite. So I have a bunch of opposite represses. I don't necessarily care about it being like an original pressing.

And then I have, yeah, then I have like a tropic rock. I don't have a tropic rock, but I have a test pressing, but it's missing like songs. Is it? Yeah. I have the test pressing. I also have the original that we got from whoever pressed it. Yeah. But I never listened to the test pressing, so I don't know what is or isn't on.

Yeah, the test pressing is like, it's also out of order, but it's missing stuff. But I think that's good enough. I also ran out of space. I don't have it anymore. Yeah. Moving vinyl is the worst. I did it today. Yeah.

I'm in the process of doing it right now. It's so fucking heavy. It's super heavy. And I wouldn't have blamed you, especially that would have been maybe when before vinyl was like really back, back. And it's like, MP3s of the future. I don't want to carry with you. I sold all my CDs, like in a similar way. and then now I'm like

that was worth fucking I would never have thought that a C like a first pressing CD would be worth money Oh wait there's a thing No yeah well just like Well we're selling CDs We are but

I'm and I were talking before this We're like who Buy CDs is it like a thing It's the thing, okay It's the thing Especially like first pressing It's like borrow the story First pressing of CDs

Yeah no This is a real thing yeah Just keep all your shit Just be a fucking hoarder And then in 30 years You can sell it all I have like all my all my like video game stuff

and like boxes. Old video game stuff? No, like newer. Like PlayStation, not newer, but like the oldest stuff I have is like PlayStation 2. I gave away like all,

my mom gave away all my like Nintendo stuff. You just got to wait out for that PlayStation 2 though because there's game. I got a couple. I got a Silent Hill game that's, you know,

worth a decent chunk of change for, you know, a video game or whatever. But I keep everything. Like I have, I have bought, but I also keep boxes of like, I bought like some shark air purifiers and I cut the boxes of that too for some reason.

It's now becoming a problem. It's a problem. And then I moved. I figured it out yesterday. I moved five times in the last six years, one of which being intercountry, not intercountry, intercontinental. Yeah. How was that, by the way?

Like, did you just get rid everything from England? I threw a lot of stuff away. Yeah. And when I was doing that, I was like, why am I keeping the box from my iPhone 9? Like, it's just in, it's just somewhere. Because it might be worth something. Just, just the box. Yeah.

Just the box. You can buy it. I mean, it's, it's a thing. It's crazy. Like, I've kept like a TV box. You know how big TV boxes are now, you know? But if you move, I wish I'd done that.

Exactly. But who wants to keep that huge box, right? So I keep stuff more because I'm like, ah, I might have. Keep the big box. In my basement. Some reason when you open your mouth and it started with a B, I thought you were going to say in my big box room. Yeah. I got my big box room.

Which is his basement. You go upstairs and there's just boxes everywhere. My basement right now is like full. I built. I didn't build anything. I don't know how to do anything like that. My handyman built me like a vocal booth in my basement. Shout out to Jay.

And then we're going to build like shelving so I can put all my crap back in that area. You were collector. I used to be obsessed with Todd McFarlane toys. Yeah. So I would buy them like crazy back in the early 2000s. So I have like all the horror movie, the horror maniacs and stuff. You're not so weird. Last night, honest to God, swear on my mom's life.

Mum, I'm sorry, but it's true. I was looking at McFarlane Toys' Instagram last night. And I'm like not into, I'm not into that stuff. but Sangva Sugarbug is doing a song on the new spawn movie and they posted it and I was like, I remember those toys and honestly last night, fucking 24 hours ago, I was scrolling in bed. Like these are cool. Maybe I'll get some. A bane?

Yeah, there's a bunch. Like I have boxes and boxes of them. Give the boxes, definitely. They're boxes and boxes. Yeah, and they're box too. And it's like the bane of my existence because I've had them for 20 years and every. time I move, I have to move. And they get more damaged every time I move. You are literally, I'm in that world right now, but with other stuff. You collect anything? This is not on my questions,

by the way. Drums, like snares and kits and shit like that, like audio stuff. Like I, anti, not anti-toy, but like the opposite of toy, like adult. I mean, you probably do the same. You probably collect shit, like drums and snares and not so much. I mean, I've got a bunch, but I don't like collect, I guess I collect them. Well, ask him what. He'll tell you. He'll tell you. They're investments. He buys them because they're going to be worse on later. He's a collection. In theory.

Have you got heat? What you got? I got a late 70s Ludwig stainless steel kit. Oh, the steel kit, not the steel wrap. No, the actual steel kit. It needs refurbishing, but sounds excellent. 24. 24 by 14.

Fucking checking his phone. Checking his phone because it's about drunk. No, I was actually going to make a comment like, oh, fucking nerds. And I was like, just talking about toys. Yeah, if you would have said that, I would just say, Yeah, no, exactly. I caught myself. So there was a guy in Vegas and I bought it.

It's like a 24 by 14 kick, 14 by 10 rack, 16, 16, 18, 16. You know, the- That's a beautiful kit. Great, great kit. I just got a Gretch kit, a USA custom. Not vintage, but almost identical sizes, but I also have a 13 by 9. It's going to be recording, you know, recording kit. I'll probably ship it to Wills whenever. You know?

Yeah, and just let him get a million other bands on it. No, I don't believe. It's going to happen, bro. We'll be first. I left a couple of snares there. There's seen some action. No, I'm sure. Is that 40th anniversary that he is?

Is that his or is that yours? No, but I, I'm going to have to come clean. I'm going to have to come clean. I got one of those and the hoops for it. And then Will goes in that exact voice. He did the same thing when I bought a, I bought a Gretz phosphorus, which is essentially the same thing, but it's like a 5-mill instead of a 3-mil. one yeah and he is just like oh i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna

that was that was do you know how many will putney impressions have been on it he fucking hates it i'm sure everyone's got one but then he was like i want one so i bought him one with my endorsement i just gave it to him anyway we need to stop talking about drums yeah it's not a drum podcast but it but it's called but it's called the downbeat so you know i fucked up bro but you know what my thought process with that was downbeat like i'm kind of miserable sometimes And there's, and like, I'm, but I'm goofy other times. Yeah. Like you.

Mm-hmm. Downbeat. And it's like, the opposite of upbeat. Yeah. Exactly. But no, it's also drum related in this drumstick panorama and I fucked up. But, and here we are. Well, you're not just doing drummers.

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and come join me at one of the Premier Rocker, metal festivals of the year. Is that a scanned piece of paper? No, I just write it out. Oh. I know it's not a piece of paper. It looked like you took a picture of a piece of paper. It looked like you took a picture of a piece of paper.

It's a PDF because I did it on a different computer. Okay. Is that a piece of paper? What is that piece of technology? 2026. Is this Star Trek shit? Opposite of December. And I also need to know this because I'm an idiot.

Is it tear from the red or tear from the red? Tear. Okay, I've always said tear. I'm like sometimes I've pronounced something wrong, British plus before like podcast media. And then someone's gone like, it's actually pronounced that. I'm like, okay, fucking.

Yeah. Anyway, opposite of December, tear from the red, like when I was growing up, just, just nonstop. That's awesome. Nonstop listening to them. One of few records, which I talk about a lot on the podcast, because I've got bone to pitch,

with remixes and remasters. However, the party remix and remaster, unbelievable. Yeah. It's funny because I can't really tell, no offense to Will, but like, I can't really tell the difference

of the remasters. Remixes obviously usually a bigger thing. I think he did a little remix on it, didn't he? No, there's no multitracks. Was it just a remaster? It was just a remaster. Damn, he did some magic, though. It's really, fucking,

I mean, he's going to do magic, yeah. But, but yeah, like, we actually recently found out the tear from the red, ProTool session Doesn't exist. Doesn't exist. And then I can't get it in a big fucking box.

Well, we have the, what, the Dats for... Well, I don't know if you heard this one when Staska was that. Well, there's no vocals on. There's no vocals. So I have the reels. They're like one, one and a half inch reels. But they did all the vocals on cue base. And then when he mixed it, it was however he did it, you know, fucking 30 years ago or whatever, how long ago it was.

but I have the reels with the music, but no 17, 18 year old, Jeff. Is that opposite of December? Yeah, yeah. Triggered kick? Yeah. The kick drum by the head was garbage. It sounded like shit.

But it changed the game because you went triggered kick, but like no other samples from what I can hear and just like the raw wrist unedited drums, but with the crazy triggered kick. That's like the first LP I ever recorded. I had no idea. Nobody knew what we were doing at all. Yeah.

The person I probably knew the most was Staska. Yeah. But none of us knew anything. It was just picking through the samples for the kicks because Stasca, Jeremy Stasca, shout out, would be like, oh, you should do this. You should trigger the kick. Yeah. And then I think it was like Derek and I were like rolling through and like, that sounds really cool. Let's go with that.

Do you remember what it was? I don't. Slate Z3. No, it was definitely like a piece of hardware. Oh, the DM5 type thing. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of cool.

I really wanted to know about that drum sound. And you know what? People are like, people now in the revival with Metal Court are like struggling to get that drum sound. And you're just admitting that we didn't know what we fucking did. That's the key, though. They're happy accidents. If you want a hot take, I think it sucks. That's my hot take.

You can edit, hey, Simon, you can edit that out. Nope. Nope. That's in. But that's my own personal criticism of, you know, 17 year old me versus 45 year old me. You mean playing on the sound? Well, both. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. It was just like, hey, we're recording.

And I'd just fucking play as fast as I could and just play it. And I guess that's what we're doing. Are you happy with your performance on those records? Yeah. I mean, my voice is real high. All throat. Late puby. All throat.

And the singing sometimes, I mean, yeah, I think it's an important step towards where I am today vocally. And I definitely have issues. But who wouldn't have? have right i'm sure you have things on your records that you wish let me rephrase that because not change because i would never change anything right because it's then you create a butterfly of same i wouldn't like i would never want to re-record those records or anything like that i think they are what they are for the time for our ability to create them so they're special in that way and

i love them for that i definitely love chris's loud ass is that a bell what the i got a whole fucking section on that whole like dinner bell shit it's kind of The bell. The bell. Is it the top of a symbol? Abuse that bell sometimes in time, most of the time, not in time. I mean, I'm going to get to the bell because I have a specific question in this about the bell. And one specific bell in particular that has.

Yo, next record is going to have bell on it. The next one. I saw you fucking play without a zill bell recently. It was the little guy, but I get the big guy back. Yeah, thank God. But it's not it's not cupped upwards. It's cut downwards. because I'm trying to use it like a mega bell ride.

No, go back to you, bro. You single-handed these must-ass-as-old. No, no, no, I stole that shit from Indecision. Indecision, hardcore band. They did that, and I was like, that's fucking cool. And I took it and just really just abused it. No, we're going to get onto it

because they didn't use it where you used it. Anyway, I've got a really nice emotional question and we're talking about fucking drums, there's a lot of emotion lyrically on those two albums. You were obviously going through it. Yeah. I would love to know if at the time the lyrics are to do with like one individual or past, not in his head.

Because it's very direct. Yeah. From listening to it a billion times, it goes from sadness to hate. Some of those lyrics had been written before. poison the well some of that stuff i had already written i was in a different band um those got transferred over but that was like my first relationship that i had ever been in yeah so obviously everything was magnified um and then tear from the red came out and that was like the breakup so yeah that's that's what i got it's a nice narrative for i just wanted to know if it was one person it was one person

it is or any more stuff. That's great though, because it's like a double album to me and I've always thought of it is that. It's akin to what's the name of the singer of cursive? Tim. Tim Casher, right? He has a song where basically, I don't know the lyrics exactly, but he talks about being in relationships solely

for the purpose of having stuff to write about. Not that I was doing that, but it seems as though, obviously I was able to draw from that a lot for those two records because you come before you deals with some of that stuff but not as like those were like directly involved like that relationship yeah you think yeah having a kid you seem to be in a better place yeah these days is it but stylistically your lyrics are still in the same kind of vein is it difficult to tap into darkness when you're in a better place No, because shit is fucked up sometimes, right, even if things are good.

So no, there's, I've had plenty, I mean, I had 17 years to compile a bunch of fucked up shit. Oh, these lyrics, it's not like you stopped writing lyrics for 17 years. I didn't stop having shit I could write about happen. Nice. You know, so. A little fucking notes. Yeah, my phone is like full of notes. I have like, like lines.

you know, on my phone. I also have movie ideas and toilet product ideas. I write everything down. I got sketches. I got sketches. Comedy shit. I got video treatments.

I got a bunch of shit. I got revenge list. Yeah. I don't have that. Okay, I got revenge list. Tom Williams also has one. He stole it off me. It's really bad.

It's really bad. You have a revenge list and you assign everyone a little emoji and any time, this is awful. juju by the way. Anytime something bad happens to that person that you need revenge on, even if you didn't do it, you give them an emoji. If they get to three, then you take them off your revenge list because you've seen them eat shit somewhere else. Or you could do it yourself.

So the emojis are like the voodoo door you're pulling your pants into. Yeah, pretty much. And Tom saw me adding to mine one day and was like, what's that? And I explained it. And he was like, oh, it's kind of sick. But that's actually a really good idea. Yeah. It's kind of dark. Yeah. You have to like really be. You're holding like a grudge like legit. I had three people on mine. Okay. And none of them are on there. Well, good.

Hopefully. One schizophrenic. Hopefully. You can leave the list. I mean, hopefully you clear it out in my mind. It's always good to not. I can hold a grudge for, I think I cap my grudges for like 10 years. 10 years.

Yeah, I think so. It seems as though that's like now that I have time to, time has gone by and I am paying attention to it. Yeah. I feel like after like 10 years, if I had a problem with somebody, I kind of'm like, ah, all right, I'm good. So there was technically like a seven-year window that people could have fucked for you and not ended up on this album. If you're capping it at 10 years.

Yeah. You've got seven years carte blanche to fuck for you. Well, that doesn't go away. I still, the experience is still there, right? But any animosity I have towards anyone, it would be gone. That's a lot of energy to hold on to for a long time. And I don't want to say it's 10 years. Like it seems like a long time.

I'm just like, okay, I said 10 years. So let's say, I'm going to be really pissed off for 10 years. And then I'm going to let it go. Not that, but it's not like, you know, I don't know if it works both ways. 12, 23, 93. What's the date? Ryan's. Ryan's lyrics, right?

It's not Ryan's lyrics. It's title. He did help write the lyrics on that. I don't know exactly what the date is. You don't know what? I think it's the ending of a. significant relationship, not a romantic one, but a... Like a family member.

Famil, yeah. I thought he always wrote those lyrics. That was like the only lyrical contribution he's ever been to the band. He might, I mean, maybe. I put a word in, so... Probably put more than one word in. What was the word? The, A, I don't know, put something in there.

Add a word, take a third. I got it. That's the publishing role. But yeah, I don't have an exact answer for that. And he said it, he said it a bunch. They were just like little things that I want to know. I mean, yeah. Are you going to ask what the meaning of the opposite of December is?

I mean, yes. Okay. I don't even know what this is. I don't know either. It's been so good. I haven't got it on here. It's not that I don't know the meaning. It's that it's changed in my mind so many times.

Because I don't remember what 18-year-old Jeffrey was thinking when he was like, oh, the opposite of December. I have an idea. of what I think it is. I think it might have been, at least this is the answer I've been giving myself for a while, which is when you think of December, you have Christmas. And it's festive and family and gifts and all this stuff. And the opposite of that would be something not good. Having nothing in no one. Yeah. So, but I have heard people say like, well, what the fuck? Like, it's cold in December. And do you?

You can find many reasons to say December wasn't the best. But you can't. So you wrote it and you can't remember? It's changed. It's just changed. I would say the opposite of December for me would be that, yes. But if it's changed, do you remember what it was when you wrote it? That's what I'm saying.

I don't. Because it's changed. I only know my interpretation of it as a old-ass dude. I don't think I ever, it wasn't on my questions. I don't think I ever read into it other than that sounds cool. Definitely sounds dark. Yeah. It definitely sounds like, I don't know.

Yeah, I feel like what you're saying is kind of the only thing that I can think of. Any thoughts on that? You got your own interpretation of that? I just remember him having a book. I remember Derek looking through and being like the opposite of December. He's like, that's awesome. And then I remember being like, yeah, that's really cool too. That's the only thing I could really.

And not single bass. What does it mean? Yeah, see, I don't remember anybody having any opinion on the name of the album and just going, this is what it's called. But what about tear? That's what I remember. It's been a long time. That's what I mean.

Everybody's inserting all these fake-ass memories into like these big decisions of this record. What about tear from the red then? That was what it means? Yeah. What does it mean? Tear from the red. I don't think you ever told. You don't know you just read that for the first time.

Because I think when I would choose. So like I would write all the time. I had all these books and I would look through stuff. And I would emotionally pick like sometimes. I would see something and I wouldn't necessarily have a meaning as to why the record should be called that, but it felt like that's what the record felt like, right? Like the sound, like tear from the red could be like, red is blood. See, this is what I, right?

When you have to explain it, you, I didn't have these questions. 100%. You set it up like you had it. I started. I started, yeah. I've opened the kimono to a bunch of explanations of. things that I didn't want to explain because then it dumbs them down. But yeah, I think a lot of like the choosing of titles for songs, like I have titles for songs that don't have any relevance

to what the song is about. It's more like a feeling of like, oh, this is like an identity for the song. Yeah, I get that. Like a kid, right? Like not everybody names her kid like something. I don't know if you're my mom didn't name me Jeffrey because it met this thing she probably just thought it sounded cool because Jeffrey's a cool lesson is a good that's a good that's a good Jeff you look at giraffe so yeah so I need some no meanings point this question that you sound no meanings as it just watered down like all this I do remember you talking about you you come before you and explaining that yeah that I do remember it's like you having to put yourself you come before you it's just you're putting yourself you have sometimes you have to

put yourself before other people. Yeah. Yeah, I do remember that. Well, mine was more inception where it's like, put yourself in front, but then continually do it over and over again. Man, this is why I avoided doing all of this stuff. You asked this question.

You set this question up like you had something. And now this bit of content is purely. Simon, this is garbage. I tell me, I like this bit. Where are chicken wings? What? That's a, we mean chicken wings? What are you talking about?

Oh, fucking hot ones. No. That was like, it was correct. That was like you were just teleported to this room. You just suddenly out. We don't need fucking chicken wings, dude. Because it's quick fire. No, the quick fire.

Oh, the quick fire shit. Okay, I get it. Lifetime Achievement Award for the Zilbel. Right. But there's one that is just egregious. Yo, there's a lot that's egregious. No, but there's one that's like Grammy Award winningly out of place. That is fucking amazing, though.

A wish for wings that work. Oh, but there's one. Bro, come on. That's, that's, that's, that's, it's, it's, it's, it is, forever such an unpleasant word. And then you go, gink, gink, gink. It's crazy. I need to know what was going through your fucking head and how it got on the record.

I love it for the record. I honestly don't know. I was probably just recording it and being a 17 year old and not knowing anything about anything and just did it and nobody caught it and it made it by. And then we're talking about the shit like 26 years later. I had heard that people had requested to turn that bell down and Chris, was opposed to it like pretty hard in the mixing zero recollection was just like no like we're not going to turn the and it's great it was a good i mean i i i heard drum them even during the set

yeah i and i see people do it too yeah uh yeah that's the one i was that's the one i was telling you about that so like just it's iconic and i would have sided with you guys at the time i'd have been like this can't be this fucking loud you stuck to your gun and here we are talking about it. And it's iconic. It's funny. It's so many. It's funny.

I honestly don't remember. And I remember for a long time I was like, I'm not going to play that shit so offensively loud and so offensively out of place. And at some point I'm like, I did that on a ride recently. Yeah. I need it back on the zero well, bro. Everyone needs it back on the zero well.

I'll pay for the bell. We'll buy it. I mean, I got one somewhere. I mean, I got one. I got one. I'm good. Oh, this is a separate point.

But it's turned upside down, no? Yeah. You've got to turn it to the other way around. So I could write on it. Like, use it like a fucking ride. Can I get like a dinner bell and do it on stage? That's awesome. You should get, you should, you should hold the zilbell.

Like, remember when Keith Buckley used to have the cowbell? Yep. You hold the zill bell. Yeah. That's fucking sick. If you see that, that was my idea. Because that's fucking awesome. Run it by Tom.

There was a video the other day. This isn't on here, but it got me thinking about it. I got tagged in it a million times because it was like a zildren walk-through video. and you're like explaining your dream ride that doesn't fucking exist and you explain my signature ride symbol. Yeah. Why don't you have one? Because this is it a 21 inch.

I play either 22 or 23. Ah, there we go. And I feel better. I was like offended. No, no. Eric sent me one. It's a great ride. It's just too small.

It's a little too small. That's all. And now I see why you got the bell when you put it upside down because there isn't a 22 with a big bell that isn't the mega bell. Because the new record, We megabelled everything, but then we'd go between a 22-inch constant and it will bounce for like a little darker tone. And then I have one of those classic avidus rides that they discontinued, like a 22-inch. Yeah. That's like the perfect wash, the perfect stick definition.

Just no bell. No bell. So there's a lot of like we would do something in it like, hey, Will or Will would be like put the mega bell up. We got to do the bell bits. And the mega bell, that bell is just phenomenal, you know. How big is this mega bell? Mega. It's mega.

Yeah, pretty mega. It's 9.5 inches. It's fucking huge. Yeah, it's huge. I got one, but I can't, it doesn't, you can't wash it. It's 9.5 inches. It's in its own category on the website. They discontinued it.

That was a porn joke, if anyone got it at a home leave of comment. They discontinued that thing for like forever. They made like a weak version of it. Jeff's getting bored again. Come on, let's carry on. Slice paper wrists. Slice paper wrists. Yeah.

I got a lyric that I need you to explain, but you're definitely going to say I don't fucking remember. I remember the day the sun went out. I got explained to you. I was 13. I was going through breakups. Sorry, maybe I was 15 when I actually got into it.

I was going through breakups. I was a fucking little sad little emo boy that liked metal. Well, there you go. Like, wouldn't it be, like didn't it feel like everything went dark? It was everything to me.

When you broke up and you got your heart broken and you're probably laying in a corner, fucking crying. Yeah. Like, that's the day the sun went out. Yeah. That's, okay.

So that's what I. thought it meant and that's how I took it when I was a kid and how I still take it. I just sometimes I did one of these with death heaven and I got loads of stuff wrong. I was like, does this mean this? Because to me it means this and it was like, no, actually, it makes this, but it was super fucking interesting. Yeah. I think like that that would be a good visualization of that feeling.

I'm pretty sure I ripped that off for something. I think there, isn't there a Boy Sets Fire record called to do someone out? Maybe. Yeah, I think so. It might be. I think I stole it as well and stuck it in one of my old bands. What about this lyric? Just one of yours.

It's all good. I'll have to go double-check. We're all from the same community we can share. It didn't make any money anyway, so don't worry about it. Nerdy. You obviously know that song. You guys. This isn't the question, but you're sick of playing that yet?

No. No. It's a fucking ass beater. And one of the main reasons it's a fucking ass beater for me is like, when you get that you know someone's getting their fucking ass beat immediately. It's a nice pick me up towards the end of the set.

Like it's nice to have that to like end the set. You know everybody's going to go crazy for us. Like at least for me personally, like you know, I get hyped up. You will be stopped by kids. Which is fine because I'm not worried about my shoes no more because what's the deal? Well, it used to be a problem. I used to make the band buy me shoes.

Yeah. because I would buy shoes and they'd get fucking wrecked. And then I'd be like, I gotta buy fucking shoes again. And we all had like gear allowances and he didn't have anything. So he was like, God damn it. All the time.

All the time I'd be like, yeah, you got to buy me shoes. Everybody gets strings and drumheads and stuff. What sports shoes were they though? I think the first pair of shoes I bought, I bought like some freaking astronaut Nike's and they were like a hundred bucks back in 2000.

So it wasn't the best pick. But just a pair of vance, nothing crazy. I just wanted to, money like they did. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, he got bummed because we all got allowances and shit like that. Well, allowances to spend on gear.

Well, yeah, we go to guitar center and be like everybody's like in a candy store and I'm like losing interest. You're like, hello? Yeah. Well, I can't replace my mics all the time. I don't have to. Yeah, but you could go to, what's the, I own, you know, the one in the UK, forbidden planet. So you could go to the spawn toy store. Yeah.

Some of that money in that. Well, they would fight back pretty hard. be like we need this in order. It was technically true. You must have had endorsements though. Oh yeah. Now they do. Yeah.

It took me a while to get a head endorsement because I didn't get a, I didn't get the Evans deal until like 2008 or 2009. But prior to that, it was hard because like when we started like, most companies are like, what is this? Because it was before, like, New Metal was big. That was the thing that, you know, those companies were looking at and just fucking bunch of kids playing aggressively heavy music. You know, they, they just did.

didn't know what it was. It definitely took a moment before got things going, you know? Do you know Thomas Pridgen was a fan? Do you know that? No. There was an interview with Thomas Pridgen. I saw a while back. Played for the Marrishon. You know Thomas Pridion? I do not. Played for the Mars Vol. He's a beast. He's a phoenom. Absolutely an unbelievable drama. And I can't remember what the interview was and someone was asking what he was listening to. And he was like,

I'm reading to this band right now, poison the well. Really? Yeah. Yeah. When was this? This was like, I want to say, I was trying to figure out what record he would even do. You were already out by this point. This is maybe like eight or nine years ago. And I remember thinking, that's how two words I'd never thought. No.

Was he on, was he playing drums from Mars Vulta when we played? Was it Big Day Out? Yeah, no, that was John. He joined Wax, Smoke or what, what's that album? Bedlam and Goliath. Usually I've got a producer to Google when that came out. But yeah, it was like, I think they did three records with John. So I think Thomas joined maybe the late 2000s.

Yeah, poison and welfare. At that point, we were like, later. You peace, we're going to get onto that. Oh, and what a story it is. Wait, wait, wait, we didn't get my actual nerdy question. Is that Deathtones inspired? Or was it just, I'm in the studio, I'm going to go. It's probably Deaftones.

To be honest, I kind of don't remember a lot of the record. Fuck me, guys. Every fucking one. It's so long. It's so long. And like he says, like, we were there. like quick well it was quick we also were just like we just want like four people to sing along to this record and weren't paying attention to anything we're just writing a record I remember handing

it to one of my friends I don't know this is a good explanation as to why we don't remember anything other than time but I remember handing the record to one of my friends and he wouldn't give it back to me and he was like nah I'm gonna keep it he's like the best thing I've ever heard and I was like well I hope I remember everything Because this might be important one day. But you remember that story, though. Yeah, I remember that. If that's easy to remember.

Emotionally where I was at is a different question. Horn and Tales from Tear from the Red. I always thought it was a love song. And then when I actually read the lyrics, I was like, this is a hate song. Yes. Was that intentional to make it sound like a love song? I think just because it's like an acoustic song.

It just comes across this love. It's a sweet sounding song with... I want to ask you what lyric means, but you're going to tell me you don't know what it means. I know the... I know the location of where it's supposed to be taking place, and it's our old van. Like, the gray chair is cold, but here for me.

Was it the Dodge? It's our van, right? I was on tour all the time, and our van and our band were there for me all the time. Was it the very first one that we bought? Yes, one with the fucking missing with the chicken wire grill, with a stolen cattle. a like symbol attached to it.

Oh, that's cute though. You remember that. Now that line makes so much sense to me. Yeah. Great. That is, by the way, such a poetically beautiful song, but it is so like ambiguous in the wording that I'm like,

this could mean anything. Yeah. Which is, I mean, I always like that about like if I ended up writing something that people could interpret it however they wanted to. Yeah. Especially because when they asked me what it was about, probably was going to do a horrible job of explaining it.

Only because I don't like giving up like the fucking answer because somebody could have a real attachment to a meaning for a song. And then I tell them and like you said with, um, uh, death heaven where you're like, I thought it was this and, and it's not.

Yeah. And I feel like that kind of steals like a little piece of it for somebody who's had this. meaning towards a song because they've interpreted and internalized it a specific way. And I don't want to take that away from somebody. So it's intentional. You do it. Very talented.

Very talented. It must be hard to do. Is it a joke? Are you looking at me like I'm joking? I'm trying to understand what you mean, like, talented in the way that I don't explain anything. No, no, no. As in like, to be able to take what you're feeling.

Yeah. And then give it an air of ambiguity so other people can relate to. it while still getting out what you intended. For, for sure. And, you know, I don't know. I don't think that that was the goal. I think that that's just ended up being my writing style, which, which did change later on. That's always been in the back of my mind when anybody has ever asked me about.

I actually remember a time where we played a show. Somebody came up to me, asked me about the meaning of a song, told them. And I could see in their face that they were disappointed. that their interpretation of it wasn't at all what it was. And I was like, I think that that was the moment where I was like, well, maybe I'm not going to really think about that very much. So I don't have an answer for people when they ask me. Do you remember what song it was?

Probably that one. It wasn't an, it was, it was for apathies, a cold body. Oh, right. Okay. You don't have to say again in case you ruin, but I'd like to know. No, well, I don't, like, I will say that. their interpretation of it was really off. But that was cool to see that somebody took it that far away from like where I was trying to land.

So I, if anything, I would want to hear what other people's interpretation of the lyrics are versus what mine, like what my intention for would have been. Well, unfortunately, it's my podcast and I want to know what I never took your eyes out of my bag meant. Do you remember that one? Because you're, yeah, well. Because that makes no sense to me. Because you would take a piece of that person with you, right? So I wasn't physically removing a piece of their body. Yeah.

You could say in a way that they look at you, that that would be something I would want to have with me while I was gone as a me to have them near me. So even though I hated them, I still kept this piece of them with me. And I think an interesting way to frame that would be their eyes. That's fucking, see, that's hot. I don't care if you didn't enjoy this or you're not enjoying this.

That's like, that's answered a riddle for me for fucking however many years that is. That's cool. That's really poetic. That's what I like. That's what I like. Awesome. I feel like you hate your lyrics. I don't.

Not at all. I mean, I think they just, their meanings change so much over the years. If I look at opposite of December lyrics now, if anything, getting older and looking back at lyrics when I was much younger, I think I tend to simplify them too much. So they kind of lose the magic that I felt maybe they had then. It's cool to be able to like revisit that, right? I have like a time capsule basically. and I can be like, oh, every record I can go back and be like, oh, I remember where I was or, you know, what I was going through.

But reading them now, I go, they're oversimplified. And they've changed so much that, like, I wish I could go back and listen to them for the first time and have like that imaginative interpretation of it. Well, other people do. Great. People are still getting into them. Last one on the old shit, parks and what you meant to me.

Now. Now, I. Yeah, what are you, what is the song about? No. Lyrically. Yes. Seems like a love song. Mm-hmm.

But I did hear, I heard a little rumor that it's more than that. Yes. Go on. It's about having sex in a park. When you know that fact, Tom Williams told me that. Tom Williams told me that. I don't know if he does like manager shit with you guys, but like he's a massive voice in the well-known as well.

I think when you told him that, he told me that the same day. Yeah. He was like, bro, you're never going to believe this. Yeah. That's pretty funny. It's about, and when you read the lyrics knowing it's about having sense. It's a horny ass song. It's so horny and it's so fucking like literal.

Yeah. But it's disguised in such a way that I never knew that. Yeah. It was a special time that experience as a young man. So it seemed relevant to, to write about it. Sorry. Sure.

My mom would probably, she doesn't want to hear me. You've got a kid and she knows you've had sex. Of course, but you know, they're like, oh, this dude's like,

like time-capsuled, like an experience like that. Time-capsuled sex. Yeah. Was there just one particularly good bit of sex that you remember? Is it a biographical account of what happened? The song?

Yeah. Well, yeah. Everything I write about happened in real life. Yeah, but I didn't know if it was a post as it's a breakup album. I didn't know if it was a post. You were just remembering shagging. Just remembering it. Shagging in a park.

Yeah, I mean, if that's the breakup album, then not only are you angry about it, but you're also mourning the loss of some of those experiences. Yeah, all that stuff. Shagging on a bench. Was it on a bench? No, it wasn't on a bench. I'm trying to think of the lyric. Let me pull these fucking lyrics.

I just get these fucking lyrics going. And then we'll move on. Don't worry. This is why I knew it wasn't on a bench. The white pavement seems so inviting. So lay back and gain bruises with me. It's been a long time since I've seen you from above and you're still beautiful.

Once you know, it's so horny. Yeah. Crash your parts into mine. Straight up. I still don't understand how anybody doesn't know what the fuck that meant. None of us knew. Yeah. The biggest fans.

Crash your parts into mine is delivered in so. a beautiful way as well and it's just about shagging unreal so lost inside of you intoxicate me with all your voices yeah what's what's the voices it's just quite literally it's a morning yeah like moaning and oh yeah oh i see i'm learning even more damn it's a pretty horny song it's so horny we got you to sing on the stray horny song yeah that was a even that's a horniest song i've ever heard of my entire life thanks well putney was like y'all this super horny. I was like, all right. Yo, get horny.

It was specifically, I've wanted to do like a nine-inch nailsy kind of song for ages. And we're like, last record. And we've only got nine songs. What do we do? And I was like, Will, should we do a ninth-ish-nails song? So I did like some of the programming and stuff. And then I went to bed. And then I woke up.

I think we got the verses and the choruses like down, me and we'll write in. And then I went to bed and I woke up. and Will have created this fucking monster. And then we're talking about who we could get on it. Fresh off the knowledge that that song is about having sex. Okay. Who's better? Boom. Done.

Yeah. Horny song. Already experienced in writing horny songs. Horny song and also bucket list thing for me to get you on a song. Yeah. Thanks for, I was supposed to scream on it too. And we just ran out of time. I never, Will forgot about it.

Oh, I didn't know. Yeah. But I'm happy with the part I got to do. Yeah, it's great. Melody was cool. It was really cool. Yeah, it's very sensual. Are you guys having fun?

Yeah. I don't know. I'm blushing. Yeah, I've had a good time. He's dissecting your lyrics. It's fine. Dissecting your fucking, your mega bell. Making fun of my mega bell.

He loves the bell. Are you? I'm sorry. I'm British. No, we're good. We're not. I would say Chris and I probably have the, the thickest skins when it comes to most of stuff. No.

No, no. No. Okay, good. What was it that made you step away when you stepped away? I was burnt the fuck out. I think it was me and I. It was you and I that were, is it me and you or you and I? You and I.

It's correct. Pieces of you and me. I'm a fan. I specifically remember being on tour with. Oh, that's parts of what you meant to me. Pieces of you and me would have worked for that horny ass shit. It really would. Yeah.

I remember being on tour with Rising. against in Europe and having gone through all the crap that we were going through with being robbed. Well, yeah, we were Billy Talit tour, super great dudes, nice guys, horrible tour to be on. Yeah. That didn't do anything for us and, you know, the morale of the band. And then we got jacked. Second show out of Detroit, van and trailer, gone. Everything.

And we continued on the tour. We borrowed gear and shit like that. The tremors of that theft are still felt today. Like Ryan refuses to buy. Any vintage, Ryan had like all these vintage gear that he had with them that got stolen. And now he's just like. No less pulse. He's like, I had the one.

It was taken. He had the one. Like he had a cab, like that red marshal head. Oh, the JC. He was like, it was a perfect one. I can never find it again. And it's, it's beating him down. He'll never buy anything like that again.

Nice because it would get stolen. Air tax. I think he found all of the stuff that he wanted and it got taken from him. And he's like, I'll never find it again. I kind of respect that. It was gone. Gone forever. Oh, straight up, gone.

Like, we walked out. But something like that, surely. So these guys went out the night before to go get a drink. It was like you and Phil or old sound guy and whoever and whatever they came back. And we parked initially in one spot when they dropped us off. We all walked out. We're like, oh, they went to the bar. They must have parked around back.

I just remember walking around the entire hotel and being like, where's the van? Yeah, in the morning. Where's the trailer? Yeah, where's the trailer? It was just like. Yeah, then we realized it was. gone. Yeah.

So what did you say? Second show? Yeah. We played St. Andrew's Hall. So it was the first, I think it was the first show. It was. After the first show.

It was immediately. Parking a lot around the back. It was in front of the hotel. Yeah. Oh, in front of the hotel. And then, okay, so you finished that tour. And then what? Should we pack it in?

Well, we were on tour with Rise Against and. Well, we went to Japan and played the arena in front of 200 people. Yeah, that was bad, too. It was just like a lot of. The arena in front of 200 people. Well, it was like, a music festival loud park and we played like not necessarily because they thought they've been put us in there because we were supposed to fill it but there was a cover band that played before us and there was five times more people and then we went to play and there was like a you know 500 people which now talk saying it out loud is kind of like a fucking bullshit even response to it but i think it says a lot about how burnt out we are because Because if we went to Japan now, I played in front of fucking 300 people in any size room, I'd be fucking stoked.

It wouldn't be a problem for us. But we were pretty burnt out at that point. We just had so many things happening to us. It was you and I who were really talking about it a lot. And I remember being on, like being on the bus. Because we shared it with Thursday. We shared it with Thursday. I specifically remember after one of the shows, you and I, it brought terrible show, people looking at us like we have like 15.

Yeah, that was also a weird tour for us too. And I just kind of was like, I don't like nobody can. I think I need to go home. Yeah, it was like, I haven't been home in a while. We also had been like put it. We were like, it felt we were like we were also just being put on the road to make sure that everybody was getting their piece and not nobody was actually even paying attention or had a strategy as to why we were doing it.

So things were just getting progressively worse. externally, internally. I mean, shit, for us to even have the conversation, or I'd have the conversation because I didn't have anything else. No, you know, I have been doing poison well for my 20s to finally have the balls to be like, I'm going to go home and get a job. Met that things were really bad.

It was pretty bad. Yeah, I remember that conversation being like, I don't want to do this. This isn't fun. It doesn't feel like any of me. cared. Like we cared, but like it wasn't just, it just wasn't sustainable. Yeah. And I felt that people cared, but it was hard to, to, to see past like all of what we felt. Plus, like, we were also like, you know, I mean, how many years is that? Dealing with each other's, you're in a relationship, right?

You're in a band. Like, you're in a relationship with these people and everyone's problems are your problems all the time. And that shit was a massive. Close quarters. It's brutal. Yeah. After a while, I'd wake up and like somebody would have an issue and you just be like, I don't care. Yeah.

It's like I don't have. I have to deal with, I'm thinking about my future and like you have like some problem that you should solve on your own. But we all have to exist within whatever's happening because we're in a band together. And we need to make sure you're good. And we need to make sure that we're good. And it just became too much. Did you fall out?

No, no, that was the other thing. It was like we were still good friends. I don't, didn't, like, in my mind, I was like, yo, I need a break from dealing with everybody's bullshit. But it wasn't like, oh, because I'm tired of them or anything. It was just like, yeah, it'd be nice to, like, not have to deal with, like, just a regular stuff from tour. Yeah.

Because Chris and I talked all of the time after that. Maybe not immediately after, but, like, it wasn't, it didn't take years for us to talk or anything. it just kind of was like, hey, I'm going to go home for a little bit. There's no beef and there was no like we don't want to create with one another. That was the thing too. We just like, let's just do an indefinite hiatus, figure out our lives. Who are we outside of the band? Because the same thing with Jeff.

I had been doing this since I was like 17, 18 years old. I knew nothing about the world outside of being in a fucking van or a bus or whatever going on tour. And, you know, he's right. You deal with other people's shit. sometimes it's stupid sometimes like why is this guy acting like this like there's so much more this stupid you know it wasn't stupid to him but it may have been stupid to me and to jeff and then we weren't able to distinguish between that either right now you can't even just like all right i'm going to be here for you even though i don't want to be here right now just because this is a process at that

point you're like yeah good luck you know i'm out i'm going to go do whatever i got to do yeah but it was the right time to to stop i think it was really important looking at it it now and kind of where we went, I think it was important for us to, all of us to grow up in our own different ways. What did you do? I moved to California and I started just playing for people. It was just like, okay, well, I'll just be a hired guy and I just kind of had to restart over.

Yeah, you play normal lot of shit. I played with a bunch of different people. I've learned how to exist as like a guy in a band and then the guy that, you know, shows up and is hired and that sort of thing, which was important for me because I love playing drums and you know i always want to get better and do the best i can and learn like i've learned a tremendous amount from him and ryan and you know try to develop those other relationships working for people and just take stuff in because i just i love playing drums so that's what i did up until we all kind of reconnected over we we started playing shows in 2015 but more of the recording

where we are kind of right now was i saw it in 2015 or maybe i saw it in 2016 i thought it was 2016 yeah right canada rock fest no the very first one was the surf and skate and then the williamsburg music hall that was 2015 yeah that was the first one where like we broke we dipped our toe back in yeah yeah that tom Williams and yeah that Canada if tom's talked to me about that yeah i had some vocal problems that was like i had been out for a while what did tom say to you i sound like shit that's why he's your manager bro yeah it's totally fine just be straight with it He's like, that just needs to be better. Yeah.

He talked to all of us. He's like, okay, if you guys are going to go back, you need to fix this. You need to fix that. You need to fix this. It's a fucking good manager. And he's right. 100%. He's totally right.

And we're good with that. Like I lied in honest criticism of what I'm trying to do from somebody who's a part of trying to improve and reach a goal. Right? Like, I'm okay with that. I'd also like to say that any of the managers that we have have never been that way. It was actually really refreshing to have somebody be like, this could be better, that could be better.

Yeah, you don't want a yes man. We've had too many of those. And like we, I think, at least for me, I always knew that they were yes man. And it was very frustrating because you're like, whatever's happening. Tell me this sucks. Yeah, I want, I want it.

There's always going to be holes in your game. It's like, just tell me, I'd like to fix it. I'd like to be better at this or that or whatever. So that was life after. Yeah. And then I. You got a real job. Yeah.

Well, I remember that when we were having. conversations about going on hiatus. I was freaking out because I didn't graduate high school. Yeah. And went on tour like when I was 18. And that was like the first time that I had to think about getting a job because I was able to like survive off of nothing. So I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I know that whatever I do I can survive off of like, I don't know. I didn't need a lot of money. Yeah. Because we had learned like how to live off a little bit of money. We were broke as fuck, dude. It was like the next level dumb shit that we would do with money. It just really sucked to like go back home and you'd see people who like had this idea of

what being in a band was. And then we'd had accomplished all this stuff. But there was like a big decline in in what we were doing. So like people would see me after they hadn't seen me in a while and they'd be like, it's Jeff from fucking poison the well. Like this motherfuckers driving Lamborghinis and shit. And I would be embarrassed. Because I was like, I don't have anything. You know, I have a lot of memories. People bought fucking CDs as well. I think when versions came out was when the transition from physical media to digital media.

Also, piracy was like at its height when versions came out. Oh, yeah, shit. Of course. So this is pre-Spotify, but post-piracy. Yeah. So there's really no money. Yeah. So weird transition.

It was definitely was the weird transition. Well, what happened was that. So versions. We recorded it and it leaked three months before it came out. And if you looked at the, if you looked at any like tracker information on Torrance for that record, in those three months, basically anybody who would have bought the record had already illegally downloaded,

burned it onto a CD and had moved on by the time it came out. So it was a massive failure to the label. So we didn't have that no more, you know. And then everybody had already given their opinion on that record, which that was a very divisive record. Yeah. And it was kind of like all of the worst things that could have happened happened at that moment during versions. And then that's where we were trying to like make the band be the band again. Yeah.

You're just like, well, what do we do now? It's like the first negative time in poison. Well, everything had been fucking uphill. Yeah. You come before you was awesome. Death tones tour, all this shit, major label. They're all like super stoked on you. So I don't think we were prepared to handle the turn.

Yeah. So when the turn came, it was devastating. And you're like fucking lost. We also missed a bunch of waves. That record came out, what, like, because we had a bunch of problems internally too. We lost Derek. I was trying to pick the pieces back up and figure out what we were doing.

We missed like a big part of, the time that we should have put a record out so that when versions came out it was too different well i think that what happens is you bands jump on waves and we were able to do that but opposite tear and then you can before you and then when all that stuff happened with derrick and the the whole thing we just the wave kept going and we were off the wave and then when we tried to get back on it we were just doing something divisive different maybe a little bit more self-indulgent for ourselves or whatever and it just couldn't get back up on the wave. Same thing with Tropic Rock.

Tropic Rock, you know, try to course correct a little bit, but still sort of maintain the eclectic sort of thing we were doing and we couldn't get back up on it. Are you proud of versions? I love versions. Versions is great. It's just different to the first food. Yeah, it's not my favorite sounding record.

It's a hard record to listen to. Yeah. But I think it's reflective of how. Sonically. Sonically. Sonically. I've tried to listen to it. A few times in the past couple of years and every time I listen to it, I'm like, fuck, it's a hard record.

It takes a lot of like, you have to invest a lot into that record. Musically, but sonically. I'm like, all right, already this is a weird record, but on top of it, we made it even difficult for people sonically to like get into the record. Though maybe that's aged well. I don't know. I don't think the production doesn't stick out of me as being bad at all. What I always do remember about that record, though, the fucking CD with that little digipack with just the sticker on the front with the, was it just the, didn't have the logo

because it just had the sticker that had the logo. It was just those icebergs. Yeah. And then the sticker was on the top of the cellar fainting. Yeah. Ed Brian Montori did that artwork, which I love. Yeah, I love that. He gave me a little, he did like a little painting.

Yeah. Because yeah, that was like part of his He had like a whole series that he did He's gonna be showing them next year I think if I remember correctly here in Nashville Or he's trying to work it out with a gallery To show those paintings that he took the photos of Yeah, he did a really good job on that

That the artwork on that records feels And like how that record sounds Yeah I also think that the record sounds like what was going on Because Ryan's dad also died right when Derek quit There was just a lot of, like, I think when I listen to it, I'm like, this feels like all the chaos and all the sorrow and everything happening at the time. And us trying to figure out, well, can we do this? Can we do this? Because Derek was such a big part of the band, you know?

But. Yeah, I mean, I guess I didn't feel that way. I mean, I didn't know it was a weird record. I thought it was an awesome. Ryan was like, yo, check out this riff. And I'm like, hell yeah. Sounds awesome. I don't fucking know.

I'm just like, yeah, it sounds like Poisoneduel. Yeah. Sounds like, you know, we're experimenting. It's still heavy. And also I wasn't going to shy away from my ability because, you know, if he hands me a riff and I get to do something interesting vocally over it, I'm like, cool. It's like it doesn't feel like I was rehashing anything vocally. So it was exciting for me. So I was, I guess, kind of shocked when it came out.

and it was like shit on. And it wasn't shit on by, I don't know, critics is the way. It felt like it was like a bad, like a musician's record versus like someone who listens to Poisonwell's record. Yeah. Because people who played instruments, I always heard to be like,

I love that record. Yeah, I think, I think if you were a day one, you got the record. If you came in on you came before you, you didn't get the record. That was my like, I remember at the time being like,

this is just what I do. Just be a bit weird. Yeah. Anyway, we're not here to talk about fucking versions. You got a new record. Peace in place. Yes. Firstly, so you did, you did some reunion shows, 2015, 2016,

and then just fucking dip again. Yeah. In and out. We were, we dipped and then 2020, I think we took the fears off. Yeah, but that's a big dip, right? 16 or 20 is like, yeah. Like, hey, we're back. Nah.

Yeah, yeah, good point, good point. What happens there? Like, you come back and is there no talk of doing a record? It's just... No, it was just... No, there was no... We would talk about two records. Him and I talked about this...

All the time. Ten years ago? We talked about this forever about doing it. It was just getting Ryan on board and getting the thing moving because the thing had stopped. Like, we're not managers. We don't know, like, what needs to get done. You know, like, there's just a lot. lot of stuff that happens on the back end that him and I were like, was there a point that

kick started? Okay, we're going to make a record. Yeah. Yeah, the horns and tails re-recording. Yeah, for the box set. Which was the our way of getting into the studio together in the easiest way, like not having to write a new song, you know, so we knew we were doing this box set and we, Chris and I were talking. I was like, well, what if we go, record horns and tails it already exists and we can you know it's an acoustic song so like let's make it a band song yeah and i think that that might be a good way for us to get in a room together and see if so it was calculated yeah by you and did anyone else know the calculation yeah i knew christ knew you two knew and you're like let's get it getting the band back together twiddle d and tweedledum

i mean i think i like saying it's scheming because it's fun but i don't think it was i just think it's understanding what path we needed to take to see if we can reach that end goal, you know, without ruining our relationships. Yeah. Because any time that the conversation came up about writing a record, you instantly felt the pressure. So you don't start the conversation with pressure. You start the conversation with, hey, let's do something cool.

and then if something comes of it, great. If not, it's cool. We get to hang out for a couple of days. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. It was actually like I realized I could sing again because I didn't know if I could because I had taken so much time off. And I think Ryan was like, I could still play guitar and riff and I can still be in a room

together with you guys and we had a good time. And I remember we were done recording the song and we were sitting outside of the studio and Ryan was like, I had a lot of fun. We should do more of that. Yeah. And I was like, let's do more of that. You were like, it worked. And then it took, but even that, it still took another two years before we actually

even did anything. Yeah. Took a minute. When did we partner get involved? After Tom took us on. Yeah. Tom, Tom suggested Will. Just the best possible fucking choice.

Yeah. We were just talking about Will on our way here. and you know another record and if we make another record i i would love to do it with will i had such an amazing experience with him i did every single stray album with will and then we always just said if we're not doing it well we're just not going to do it yeah he really is for stray he is a fifth member like and the hangout is so much fun yeah i mean he brings the best out of everybody he'll let you know when your shit sucks he'll let you know when it's cool which is great and he's just like that that could be better like okay i'll go

You figure out how to make this better. He's a no man. Yeah. We need more. Yeah. 100%. Fucking no man. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I've said this multiple times, but like I had, like, I would be left alone to write lyrics and place. And I'd have to like record demos. I don't even know how to use his setup in that little room. I know how to press a space bar and then press it against a stop, press it to record. So they'd get these janky, horrible sounding demos, me in the room. and they would be recording and he would have to come, hear the recording and read the lyrics.

And I would be pacing around behind him, freaking out. Because I'm like, I put in so much work and effort into this and I don't know if it's good. And if he tells me it sucks and I have to start over, like I'm going to be devastated. And I spent hours doing this. Luckily for me, we never had, I think we only had one time where he was like, you need to start over. None of this works. And every other time, it felt like my dad telling me he was proud of me.

I think I've said those exact words on this podcast, talking about tracking drums. Yeah. Will knows three out of the five stray. How many did I do? No, I did four. Two out of the four. Did I do five? I don't know.

Anyway, most, there was two, the first two records I did, but Will, I didn't really learn my parts before we went into the studio and it was a fucking nine. Yeah. And although we're friends, he like fucking hated it. And in the last two records, I really fucking, like I rehearsed everything. Me and him wrote everything like. And then I learned it note from note. And then I tracked in like two and a half days.

That's awesome. And he, yeah, I've never done it that fast before in my life. And then we're like, you did fucking amazing. It was like my dad. Well, that was, that was the lore I heard that you. like would just learn songs super quick and record a whole record in like two days. Is that, you heard the law?

Yeah. Yeah, he told me about that too. Wow. He was proud. The erie, dude. That's sick. It's not easy, especially his process because he does, how he records is very different. The first time that we went in there, I'm like, we're not doing drums first?

I don't. Yeah, I'm like this. The whole process, it was, it was like a massive. Do you like that, though? I, it depends right i've done records where you do drums first and then the final product is awesome but for the poison well record we did drums like in the middle towards the end and it was awesome so it's like it depends the circumstances i guess well it was that way because we wrote songs in the studio

for the first time we never did that yeah everything else was us in a room we figuring it out like hours banging their heads against the wall every record yeah we would i mean i mean i mean not to say we wouldn't finish a song or two in the studio, but it was started at rehearsal. Yeah. I knew all my stuff going in where this time we would sit in the control room. He'd be like, okay, I could go upstairs and I got to learn my shit. And I'm like, it was just different. The whole, now it makes sense. Like I'm like, when we do another record with him, my brain is, knows how to go about and how he works and how the whole process is going to go.

But the first time I was like, I was just like, what is this? But I like it because, A, you don't have to. over edit things. If it sounds good with the rest of the instruments are what they're going to be like on the record, then you don't have to fucking edit your drums. And then I also like it if you haven't finished vocals or if you've done vocals and stuff to the drum track and maybe a line has changed, but you've already tracked drums and your fucking Zillbell is all over on the Jeff's bang of lines like it is on the early shit. It's not there. So when you're tracking, you can Not go, ding, did it.

No, no, 100%. The way he explained it to me is that that whole process. And I was like, okay, that makes a lot of sense. Because, yeah, it was nice to go up there. And I was hearing the final Ryan's guitars. It's also quite hard to play to that, though, because you are accustomed to how it's supposed to sound on record. So if you play a little bit sloppy,

it makes you, like, think, oh, fuck, I'm blowing it. Yeah, it was definitely noticeable when we do stuff. But it didn't take us very long. I think it did drums in four days. Nice. I would like to come back and do it in like two, two and a half. Get the will punt knee pat on the shoulder. I tell you it's better than crack.

It's great because we first went in. I hadn't played hardcore music 10 years. So it was like a little bit of like my brain having to real, not relearn, but think about things differently. Hardcore music. You know what I'm talking about. It sounds like you're fucking, uh, I'm the fire starter. How do you do fellow kids?

Oh, you know what else we have to do? because this is now egregious to get some of these out of the way. Sorry. It's fine. It's just I've done it before. And then when I cut clips. There's just cans everywhere. Honestly, and I hate, but it's also your airline's fault.

It's fine. I hate that we did this without the producer because, like, she'll go. Hey, there's too many cans in shot, and then she takes them out, like, immediately. Well, that's cool, because then this is going to look like all the other ones. Yeah, a little different. I like that you've had you're having little problems I'm having so much For the record

Anyone this can stay on the podcast We had a camera die Without me noticing Because Madison's not here today And so that's why the first Maybe fucking 40 minutes of the podcast Is wide cam only and I'm sorry Host and producer

And that's why I gave her a job I was like I need fucking help Because you Earlier when I was doing the intros I did them all 10 minutes of fucking fucking around and I realized I hadn't pressed the record. So that's why, if you see me, like, looking under there,

it's because if that dies or these dies, I'm fucked. In 28 minutes, this camera is going to die, but I have a backup plugged into it now. This is all shit she does. She's essential, and that stays on the podcast. And Simon, you're also essential, because what you will have done is edited the first part of the podcast, cut out any fucking dog shit, and it will look good.

Anyway. I have a question. For me? Love it. Yeah. So while I was, power washing the uh the uh brown streaks and the toilet bowl out there wasn't me with my pee yeah okay i was wondering i don't know this uh the dude from kubla khani suckle what's his last name honeycut

what is it matt honeycutt honeysuckle that one that dude's awesome but it's one of my favorite guess you have did you ask him about his lyrics um i can't remember we talked about chippoelah a lot That's what I remember. Why? Are you annoyed? I asked you about lyrics. No, not at all. I just wonder, I was just like, you know, do you?

Do I ask everyone about them? Yeah, do you ask every, all singers about lyrics? Okay. And this is no shade on that haircut. Like, I love Kubla Khan, but I listen to Kubla Khan when I'm in the gym. I'm listening to Kubla Khan for aggression. Got it. And I'm not really listening to what he says unless he says, it's one of the silly mosh calls.

And I'm like, pretty funny. He's got great stage banter. He's great. He's amazing. You personally, and I would say honestly, and I'm sorry to do it to you, but you and George from death heaven, your lyrics have come at the most important times of my life

and matched the darkness that I was at. So I was really eager to get in on, you know, words that have meant a lot for me. No, no, and I don't have a problem with it. I don't want you to think I do. I actually, I really appreciate that. Thank you for saying that.

Yeah, not at all. Yeah, I'll just. There's no more of them. I just wanted to. bring up honoesuckle because he's the best he's the best there's no more there's no more lyric things please it's not at all like a thing i'm not oh it's fine yeah no it's just keep asking about my lyrics bro no because you don't know the answer i had a couple yeah you did i think maybe maybe uh george deaf heaven you uh maybe ishan from emperor i had some was this about wizards or um

But yeah, not really. I don't think so. It basically means I really like your band. I get that from what you're saying. Yeah. If I dig deep, it's because I really like your band. And luckily, most people watching also do. And maybe they'll be like,

you didn't ask him about this line. Why did you ask him about the Zill Bell? No, that's a... The Zill Bell is a clip, Simon, but I'm really annoyed that it might be wide angle only. Also, too. Can you put the bell every once in a while in here? So it used to be, I had...

a zill bell was the censoring for swearing on here. But I can't put it in. Simon can pop it in in a couple of places. Do you, are you bleeping out all the... I used to do it on Instagram because I thought they made, it made the algorithm squish it, but it doesn't.

The word does, but the actual voice doesn't. But the only one I do bleep out is see you next Tuesday. Like the band or the word? The word. The word. Okay. There's a band called See You Next Tuesday. Yeah, but it stands for, you know, C-U-N-T. You didn't know that. See you next Tuesday.

No. C-U-N-T. Oh, okay. I thought that was a common thing. That's what that man's named after. Damn, I feel, that shit took me way too long to figure out what the fuck you were talking about. Even after you said, see you next Tuesday, I still, like, didn't catch on. So that word is technically hate speech. Got it.

I don't even get it. Break it down. I'm dumb. What is C-U-N-T? C-U-N-T. C-U-N-T. It's spelled. Spell that out.

It makes a word. Yeah, okay. It makes a word. It makes a word. So that, got it. That word, got it. Is hate speech. And I've had, because I'm from the UK, I say it all the time.

Something hateful about that. Especially being a British man. Yeah, but in the eyes of the algorithm, it is derogatory word against women. So I did one episode with Northlank. Australians, I'm British probably dropped. 800. Like,

Django levels of the, not that word, but you know what I mean. Exactly. I know what you mean. The same like, the same amount of frequency. Yeah.

And I got, it wasn't, no one said anything, but the algorithm was like, this has been flagged for hate speech. I love, what did you say? The eye of the algorithm.

The eye of the algorithm. Sounds like a fucking new rush song. Take that lyric, maybe. Plot twist. It wasn't a zill bell. It was an L.P. I spell.

No way. Is that the truth? Yes. I bought a Zilbel because of you, bro. That's why I said plot twist. That's killed everything. He's like, I've been lying, bro. What happened to trembling level?

I think we love, I love that song. I think we all love that song just to make it very clear. It's not on the, it's not on the record because we hate it, but it had been out for a whole year. Yeah. And we kind of thought, well, it's already been out. It's its own thing. We released a vinyl with it. That it might be cool to just have an extra song.

We wanted to make sure our record was lean and mean. We had a certain amount of time. 40 minutes, 42. It's like third, is it? 38 minutes. Well, only because of the secret song. But three minutes of that is silence, right? The old school secret song.

Yeah. Yeah, which is also, there's some fucking mad ass. People are like, I don't give a fuck how good the song is. I'm not going to wait three minutes. But I thought you could just like, and skip that bitch. People are just so lazy. But maybe they, is it?

There's no way that laziness can, like that type of laziness. Could it just be that they don't know that you can? If you don't know that you can move? You can't do that in your car. Like, I can't fast. You can't do it in your car. I think it's a playlist thing. I think people have been pissed off.

I have a playlist. And then there's this silence. Oh, I'm sorry if you're a person that just listens to playlist. Fuck you. Yeah. But it is, it is an old thing. Like, I remember tool on fucking, is it undertow? No, it's Enema.

It's the end of enema. No, at the end of whatever the record sober is on. Yeah, it's undertow. Oh, is it undertail? There's a fucking crazy secret song. It's the one with the UFO. Oh, there's one on, there's one on lateralis as well then. Is it?

Yeah, see, I don't know. The undertow wants to. really scary one. Yes. Yeah. And it comes way later than three fucking minutes. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm lying. I'm just saying whatever the fuck. Nirvana to the nameless, endless on, uh, never mind. Yeah. It's like, it used to be a thing. It's like a long as fuck. It seems like a cool thing to do.

Like that secret song, um, just didn't make sense in the full track listing. So it was a nice little thing. Like the record ends. and you don't have to listen to it, but it's a... We definitely wanted it on there. It's a fucking cool song. I think people are annoyed that it's good.

I love that song. It's called Mercedes. Yes. Yeah, I had to dig to find that. Yeah, so it's called Mercedes. My wife's name is Sadie, but her mother was going to call her Mercedes. It's about her.

It's about her. Yeah. Cute. It's awesome. It's... Yeah, it's good. I fucking love it. Stray had a secret track,

but we only ended up putting on the vinyl when I wanted it to be on the end of a song, but I got vetoed. And it's like a fucking jazz song. So I get it. But I wanted it in like a Dylan's Escape Plan way. I was like, well, at the end of the heaviest song, we're going to this jazz section. Everyone was on board. Yeah.

Fucking tracked it. And then they put it at the end of the track, then people can skip it. Yeah. Because then you just go, right? Exactly. But it didn't happen. But it used to be back in the day. Remember there was a few.

I can't remember any that were like, I can't. Maybe death tones. Someone had one where you skipped backwards. Queens did that track. Was it Queens? Yeah, songs for the depth. There's like a track zero. There's a track zero before the, fuck it.

Yeah. You can go, you press back and you get to a track zero. Yeah. Only works on CDs. I didn't know that. It was like tail end of the CD era new way to do a secret track. Yeah, I remember. That's awesome.

There's no equivalent now. Oof, we're going to figure it out. You know what? LP number seven. You know what? We'll figure it out. I'll tell you because they'll forget. There is an equivalent now, but it can only be.

done on vinyl, which is you put the secret track on the middle part of the vinyl. So it never actually gets there unless you fucking... Interesting. But it doesn't work. Like mine doesn't go that deep. It doesn't touch the metal part. I don't know if it's just maybe it's just before it. But you leave a big gap.

Because there is... I've seen that before. It does sit there and bobble and shit. So you're right. You probably could do that. Oof, what's up? Take it next record. It's yours.

What is it? The eye of the fucking... The eye of the algorithm. Please use it. That would fucking make my life. 17 years, it's a long time to get fucking rusty. Yes. As to genre-defining musicians,

was it difficult to pick up where you left off proficiency-wise? I have this written. You kind of alluded to it. But if you want to get more specific about it, Like obviously you've mentioned a couple of times. I found out I could sing again. You said I haven't played hardcore style drumming in a while.

Difficult? I wouldn't say difficult. It was more just thinking differently, right? So I've been playing like pop, electronic pop music, rock music. I was doing all the great Bucato stuff, which was kind of like all over the place. Oh, you did Black Queen, didn't you? Uh, no. Why do I think you've done all these things?

I don't know. I mean, I was, I did track some stuff for them. I don't know if it got chopped up and used because it's electronic stuff. Oh, that counts. I was right. Yeah, yeah. So my brain was just thinking differently. And then, you know, going to Will's.

And then I'd be like, hey, let's try this. And it just, he'd be like, well, no, let's do this. And then he would do it. And I'd be like, okay, that makes more sense. You know, like kick following the riff. Oh, Will loves that. He loves it. And I'm like, I want to kind of, I want you to break.

You're me. Yeah, I want to break away. And he's, and he, sometimes it's a, I'll give you this, but you're negotiating that stuff. That was part of it. The other thing was just, I hadn't played double kick in like 15 years. I was going to say.

But you gave Tom, James Payne. Shout out to James Payne. I did. He's a beast. If you ever want to understand all the mechanics and what's happening, he's the guy. You know what?

He's like, I should be getting commission because I'll say it. 5%. You said to Tom, I need someone to help with getting my feet back in shape and I was like,

this is you guy, James Payne. He plays in a death metal bank and his friend. the moat but he's unbelievable does like nile covers and stuff and then uh kevin kane not really same thing was like i want to type my feet up and he came to me and i was like bro you don't need me my feet aren't good you want this guy you should be on commission you should you should be like oh james but i saw i saw you guys at brooklyn bowl and you're fucking killing it it was it's thank you but it's better now because i've been continuing to work on it and

shit like that. It's like learning ankle technique and then getting into the whole swivel thing. Yeah. You know, but yeah, I learned a ton from him of like, because this leg, left leg could do anything. It was like a club. It would just go, and that was it. And then my, you're doing the whole springs off the pedal shit. Yeah, he started that just to get the motion going. And I would do it my right leg too, because when we started again, I started getting a weird pain, like the thigh, you know, weird hip flexor. Yeah. And I was using too, I was doing too much caveman shit. That's me. I'm doing the same thing. Do you get a, yeah. I don't know anymore because I actually went to, because I didn't want to do double kick.

I went to Matt Gasker from animals. He's a, he's an encyclopedia of everything awesome drum wise. He straightening up. Yeah. Well, what about vocals? What was this moment where you were like, I can sing again? Well, I mean, that was in, so that was what, 2020 when we did that. And then we started seriously talking about doing a record.

And I was like, oh, this scheming has gotten me. I got a workload now I was like fuck I gotta fucking scream again and sing again and I hadn't been like screaming regularly I mean I I know that's a thing you do now and I do do that at home it wasn't a thing before

I would just like go on tour we were on tour all of the time so my voice was always ready for it so finally when I had to do it for extended periods of time like when we do these tours I was like gosh shit, you know, like something's changed. I had like a rhinoplass. I had a really crooked

nose. And I felt like that gave me more room. So I had to get used to that as well. It was a different feeling than it used to be. I did go to a bunch of people. I took, I took some lessons from Melissa Cross for a little bit. David Benitez at Extreme Vocal Institute. I've seen that guy's video. Yeah, Mark from Cardavux, Cardavox Academy. Just like, I, if anything, it made me more interested in understanding why my voice worked the way it did, because back in the day, I didn't pay it, I just did it. It wasn't like a thing I was interested in the mechanics of it. And now that's part of my journey. Yeah. Of vocals, you know, like, I'm just trying to, like, even we go, like, we're on towards somebody, a singer. I'm like, oh, what are you doing? What the fuck you do?

They're like, oh, I don't do shit. I gargle fucking piss and I don't warm up. And I'm like, fuck, I got to do all this shit. There's not many of those left. I'm like nebulizing, steaming, vocal warmups multiple times. Vocal rest. You're doing vocal rest. Yeah.

Thanks for coming on the podcast. I appreciate it. Everything. I mean, we haven't started tour yet. So once I'm on tour. It would be like this two days in. Yeah. Fucking podcast.

Trying to sleep, trying to do as much as I can. I mean, obviously I'm older. So it doesn't come. Yeah. It doesn't feel like it comes. with a kid as easy. Yeah.

Did you change your register? Did you have to change it? I didn't want, I didn't act, I didn't do it on purpose, but I think it has been changing. I remember you come before you. My voice is a lot lower than it had been.

And though I do think I can hit those higher. It's just, it's a different location. It's a fucking muscle that's moving, doing scales, basically. So. Going back to,

cool. I love it. I think it's great. Like I want to improve. I want to be the best I can. I want to sound fucking brutal, but I want to sound as beautiful as I possibly can. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just working at it. I think it's great that I have on my downtime. I have something to focus on that I can see improvements on. Yeah. So my free time now feels like it's being spent on important stuff. Whereas before you know, I'd finish work or do whatever I got to do. And I'd be like, I'm gonna play fucking video games, which I still do. I was gonna say how you got you, Mark, because you mentioned earlier.

I fucking love playing video games. But now I find myself just naturally wanting to put time into my vocals because it's rewarding. Like, you know, to see improvements. Like Chris rolled up and I was like, yo, fucking them, them wheels sound. We'll sound good. Then wheels sound good. And it's motivated. I was telling him,

and I was like, it's fucking motivating for me to, because we were both in the same spot. We were like, man, we have a lot of work to do. And when he rolled up, I was like,

I'm going to step my fucking shit up too. Because he, you can see all that effort that he put into it. And I know that he, you know, you probably don't feel like you're there,

but that's the whole point, right? Once you get to the top of that fucking mountain, where else are you going to go? It kind of becomes your baseline. Then you keep looking at the next. thing you got to go to. Now I'm like, oh, I got to get the swivel territory. You know, that's the that's kind of where I'm at now, you know? Do you think you needed the time off in order to look at it

this seriously? Maybe. I think you needed it to miss it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean like the craft. The craft. Yeah. Yeah, because maybe it came pretty easy back then. We were always conditioned. We toured, what, 10 months out of the year? Toward. Duckton, yeah. Yeah. So like, there was never point where like you'd feel like you were out of practice or you spent too much time eating shit and now you have to like come back from it if anything it's a positive i think you know i i guess it could be both right depending on who you're talking to some people could be like these old fucks no no you know what i think it's really cool that a band comes back and is more dedicated in the craft work of it than they were before because a lot of guys

guys get back together and they do it for the oh it's been 10 years it's a paycheck like oh the reunion shit and you go see him and it's like you guys don't give a fuck yeah like you can see they don't give a fuck and you guys look like you give a fuck and now i'm hearing that you know you it takes a lot of time to get back in shape for that shit they could have always done it kind of part of the band's DNA as we were kind of coming up we were like how do we get better you know i remember listening to opposite of december just being bummed on my playing and being like next time we do this it has to be better and then we did tear and I'm like it's got to be better and it's got to be better it wasn't until tropic rot that I'm like I feel really good about this yeah and now it's

like you know going through the whole playing with other people and coming back together and then the learning curve I was telling you about now it's like okay I see kind of like we're peace place and places where we came together like how do now how do I take that what's the next what's the next thing from that to move up. Yeah, it's all the little wins. Yeah. Like, and that's happening. So, like, for me, any, any little win I get, like, gives me, like, that fucking motivation. Yeah.

Keep going. Keep going. Yeah. Like, getting better and better. I stopped looking at, like, the long game. Like, I spent my whole life worrying about so far in the future that, like, it was never possible to accomplish anything because you're like, you're never going to do that if you're thinking about miles and miles of problematic things.

It's like totally demotivating. Yeah. So like now I'm just like, yo, little wins, like something that I've been working on and it works a little bit. I'm like, cool,

perfect. Keep pushing on that. And I think in general, in life, right? Like, I mean, I think like if you just focus on like all the little

improvements you're making, like you're going to get to that ultimate goal. It's just you got to have patience to get there. Yeah. It bums me out that you are bummed out about your playing on opposite of December. No, no, no, it's not that I'm bummed. It's just, you know, I have, again, a little psychology.

I have the wound within myself of never feeling good enough. So that's the thing that, like, Impostis syndrome. No, it's a, it's more of a thing of like, no, no, no, like, feeling okay. But, like, you're like, this is cool and I like this. But that little, that little nagging thing. You're a perfectionist.

You're never going to be happy. with something you did when you were fucking 18 because you're trying to be perfect now. So of course that guy over there wasn't going to fucking do it if you're still trying to fight it here. Good therapist. Yeah. Like fucking Tony Surprise.

Also to the idea of perfection, like what's perfection, right? Is it everything snapped to a grid perfectly in tune? Or is it like the crazy moment that you capture? It's all subjective, right? Well, I want you to know that those records were pivotal in me, starting a metal core band back then and my drumming was based on your drumming and for me at the time

respect that was like my that was my fucking pinnacle it's like I want to sound like that appreciate I put fucking zillbells all over everything fucking yeah you're a beast I mean not not because of me because of your own because of your own hard work no but technically kind of because of you they respect again to be able to do those things the little fucking hit the zill bell hit the ice bell out of time. The dougooddiggas? Are you a better drummer because of my lyrics? No, but I'm...

I'm just kidding. I'm definitely fucking... You want to get really fucking dark? You know, there's a case there for... Why not I made it out of some shit without your lyrics? I was listening to... I never listened to lyrics, but I was listening to yours. I remember after a particularly bad breakup,

oh, fuck, she did not love me. I was on the train on the way back. Listening to Tehr from the Red. I remember I was on the train from New Breita Redding. I remember exactly where I was. And I had two CDs with me. One was tear from the Red and one was Killswitch. Which Killswitch?

It was a fucking... A live... A library. Yeah, that's a good assort. I only really like that guy. I only really like the first two Killswitch. I'm that guy. I'm that guy.

Howard's a sweetheart of a... There's a couple of Howard songs. There's a couple Howard songs. Oh, there is definitely... I mean... Jika, jing, jing. whatever song that is. Is it Rosa Sharon?

Rosa Sharon. I like you like whatever song that is. I don't know what the name of the song. I feel like maybe I do put that first Howard record in there. Maybe there's three. I like, I love it just breathing. I can't remember. Anyway.

I'm Anna Mena. And like my music, my hair can change with me. And has to be able to continue my rhythm. For so, Potion Nine, of Sebastian Professional, has all what my

Cable Necession Profunda Protection Contraband 99% less of rotura and Puntas Abirte, Bucion 9 of Sebastian Professional, the secreto professional of who don't see

Tendentions, but who are we talking about? I can't know. It doesn't matter. It was on to another thing anyway, it doesn't matter. Oh, you were on the fucking train with two CDs.

Oh yeah, and it was a tear from the Red Day. I was crying. leave it in this is like fucking it must be 2005 maybe when that happened

yeah maybe 2004 shit 2004 it was anyway enough about me crying on a train on the new burrito I talk to therapist Jeff I'm not that guy anymore

I'm fine now I'm fine now I'm not a therapist he could be We're nearly done Anyway, we're nearly done We're nearly done The music industry

No, I want to do what fucking We want to do Diner's driving to dives What's that dude's name? Guy Thiery Remember when Rogan's trying to get him off And he's like, oh, this is awesome, we're going to keep going

I'm going to do that You want to keep going Three fucking hours I need to back shit up But I'll do it if you want It's just fun It's great fun And I need to

I need to I need more people on the Patreon so I can buy the fucking cards so I don't have to double back stuff up. Okay, music industry is completely different right now. Obviously. Yeah. What's better and what's worse versus the early 2000s. Less gatekeepers. I mean, we go anytime we have a tour or we release something, it's like direct, you know, direct on Instagram and Facebook and all that sort of stuff. You don't need the major label machine to put you out there because you have a direct window to people that like your band. That's one big thing.

Yeah, I think I don't know enough about what was happening record label-wise back in the day to compare it to now. It always felt like when we were, why are you looking over there? I haven't got a producer. I have to take the fucking cameras. I'm glad that you explained why you thought it was like moving around too much. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. No, no, you're good.

No, producer today. It's struggling, bro. But yeah, like, struggling. Yeah, I don't remember. Like, I remember being on a major label and having like same stupid major label shit. Like, oh, fucking what's a single and, you know. We don't know what anything means, I guess. Tom Williams takes care of a lot of the stuff for us that is that.

Is that? Sorry. So, which is great because then we can focus on just being in our band and writing music. So shielding us from having to deal with all that fucking bullshit. I think is great because you end up focusing on it so much that it's hard to fucking juggle all that shit, right? So like for me, I'm grateful that I don't have to fucking think about it or have an answer to this question because I got better people to deal with it.

So not really indicative of the era we're in, but more how the band is structured is better now because you don't have to deal with shit. Well, yeah, just because we, I never really understood it anyway, you know, it was more just like disappointment after disappointment, right? Like, even with like earlier record labels where you're like, we're friends. And then you're like, oh, you've been fucking me for a long time. So, you know. I feel like there was more of that then. I think it was a lot easier to do that.

Yeah. And you couldn't get completely fucking just flogged publicly if you fucked up. Yeah. Like, you would have to go to Kerang and be like, hey, this is happening. Now you make a post and it's like everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So like, yeah, we've dealt with that a lot.

I mean, I would say like for the entirety of our career, we're pretty fucked. A lot of the times are just like weird decisions made and stuff. Yeah. By labels and managers. Well, no. Labels, managers, yeah. And even us to me, we would make, we would make weird decisions. Well, we're the ones.

I mean, ultimately, we need to know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, ultimately we're the ones who that was like, remember back in the day, like you and I would sit down and we'd be like, we're going to look at the money. Yeah. Because we haven't been looking at the money. And not that there was a problem with the money, but we would have a problem because we didn't know about the money. So something must be going on with the money. So getting involved in the business of our band was something.

that became important. But now that we're still involved in the business of our band, but it's not like taking up so much of our time that we can't just concentrate on. You got somebody you can trust with it. Yeah. Being the best dudes in Poison, well,

and writing a record and stuff. One of the advices during that period of time that my dad gave me, it was like, nobody's gonna care about your money and your band and your business like you will. Like you guys need to actually pay attention to what,

what's going on. That's always stuck with me. And at one point, we had a business manager then we didn't have a business manager. Then we started taking over stuff. We'd see where stuff was going. So it made more sense of, like, oh, that's why we don't have any money because we did this dumb thing here. We did this dumb thing there.

We should have did this. We did that. Not budgets. Blah, blah, blah. Just shit like that. I hear that because I'm the same. I'm okay with like retrospectively looking at something and being like, oh, I can see where I fucked.

up right here. Yeah. But when I do that and someone else fucked up, fucking scorched off. Yeah. It's like, too much as well. Yeah. 100%.

100%. So, you know, we, especially him and I are very, very much involved with making sure that, you know, financially we do smart things and we're not frivolous and all that sort of stuff, you know? Yeah. I like to know where the $2 that were spent went.

He goes a little overboard. Chris. He goes a little overboard sometimes. I don't care about the $2. But I do care about the, you know, $2,000. Yeah. Well, in my mind, I'm going, well, if we let these $2 slides, how many other $2 slides?

And those $2 turn into a lot of cash. Which is, logically, logically, it makes a lot of sense. Yes. Yes. Okay. But yeah, we run a tight ship. Yeah. So does that answer that question?

I mean, it's a completely different answer, but it was good. Okay. I liked it. Is there anything you don't like about being back in this era? It feels like to me in my head, this is like Encino, man. But a metal call back. I don't like being old and trying to play music. Like aggressive music as an old man because I have to do so much more now than I did when I was younger.

But warming up and stretching and all the stuff and eating. And if you don't eat at a certain time, all the fucking things that you know as being a drummer. You know, fuck it. That's not the era though. That's just getting old. Yeah. I mean, I like all that stuff because it kind of gives me motivation to do that. Sorry, not to like just be like, oh, whatever, bro, whatever.

No, everybody has their different take. It's totally cool. It forces me to have to do that stuff. Let me be a therapist. Let me be a therapist for a second. I feel like you have needed more things to make you feel like your inner band. Like even down to earlier on in this podcast where you talked about how you saw the other guys were buying gear. So you were like, I want shoes.

But now you seem so stoked on like having to warm up and doing this stuff. It feels like maybe it was like the missing thing that would make. you feel like, I'm in a band. And, well, I have talked about that pretty openly. Yeah. Like, you know, after when I started talking to Chris, I was like, you know, one of the things I was missing was a creative outlet, you know, like I didn't have that anymore. And I want to be creative, but I don't know how to play instruments and I'm not going

to join another band. And I can be creative in other ways, but this was like a big asshole that was left. And I was like, I would like to do this again. I like singing. I miss playing shows. So I'm grateful that we have the opportunity to play shows. And I got to fucking record a record with Will Putney at a time where I could appreciate Will Putney as a producer, as a friend.

The overall experience too. Yeah. Just like when I was, when I was in Poisoned in Well, like I was pretty just not, you know, people were like, oh, be present and shit. I would say I would be a huge can. it for somebody who wasn't present. Yeah. You know.

So I get to have, it's, it's the fucking stepbrother's thing. Even better. We got it when we're 40, right? Like I feel that way all of the time. Yeah. So for me, I try to look at everything that you were asking like, oh, like, you know, is it hard to find darkness and this stuff? I'm, look, I have a lot of positive stuff going on.

It feels good to be able to look at the negative because I don't, I have a positive to counteracted where in the past it was shit it felt like it was shit after shit after shit after shit it's good that you're actually managing to write good music despite that you know i mean sometimes people think that a pained an artist that writes pained music which you guys do and you still do yeah like when they don't have that pain like a lot of people are i don't really believe it but it's more concentrated because if it's always pained it's not concentrated. It's always pain. So I feel like because it's now the byproduct, right? It's after the positive. It's more concentrated because it's not happening as often. So I feel it more.

Yeah. Nice. Spread it out over two songs. What is success for poison the well now? Oh, man. I think just doing this, doing this now in her 40s and like people still caring and then there's still chemistry between the three of us. And to me it's, I mean, it kind of definitely closed a circle that was still open when we hiatused. For me, there was a lot of like mourning, the loss of something and feeling like something didn't actually complete what it was supposed to do. And then when we started doing all this stuff and things started falling into place,

it felt like that circle closed. And to me, that's, I'm good. Like, he could be like, hey, I don't want to do this. I'm going to have 50 kids. I'm out and I would be bummed. But your story finished. But I would feel like there's the thing completed. You know what I mean?

Whereas like before when we hiatus, it was, I was real sad. I was sad when we talked on the bus in Europe. I was sad when I came home because I was like, I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do in my life. And then I moved to California and it's like away from all I knew and trying to pursue something. I didn't know where it was going to go. And yeah, the loop, I would always come back to it.

Fuck. We made such dumb decision. We were such dumb young kids. You felt like you'd thrown it away. Yeah, just like Jeff was saying too, is like people taking advantage of us because we're like, you know, like open, nice, good people. And it just like, it just, it felt like, fuck, man.

There was the thing. The thing was there and it like slipped away because we were. So for me now, it's just like, wow, like this. I'm good. You've done it. This is success. Yeah. Yeah, anything past, for me, like, opposite of December tour, this record and anything, like anything, I'm like, this is cool.

Like, this is awesome. I'm stoked. I'm stoked to be doing it with these dudes. I'm stoked who's on our crew. I'm stoked on Tom. Okay. Everybody involved, it feels like it's a cohesive team. And it feels like the loop has closed, at least for me, from my particular point.

Because before, I was, like I said, I was like, fuck. Well, fuck that one up. Like, had this rad band. and rad chemistry with people and like, all right, well, I guess that's it. You know, like, this is how this ends. But, you know, him and I never really gave up, to be quite honest. And obviously, I'm not saying anything against Ryan, but him and I would spend many hours on the phone, like, you know,

trying to figure it out, you know? Over the 17 years, just still, like, and then you found the plan that works. We would just talk about it. Yeah. I mean, we just. Oh, awesome would be, you know. Sometimes we just reminisce. We're just calling each other to see how we were doing.

And we'd be like, wouldn't it be cool? You know, like, I miss it. Like, but we understood that, like, the, everything you had to fall in place in order to do it. But pieces in place. You know. Is that the meaning? No. I would, I would.

He said no. No, no, no, no. We're going to have two. Exactly. Yeah. We have, like, we talk about pretty extensively at wills about, like, peace and place. what like it meant to each of us like if we were talking about it in the context of like the record like everything we went through to have the record done and then also like the whole path to get

here yeah you know talking to each other and like figuring out ways for stuff to work and get together like I feel like that could be the piece in place right the tear or the tear of Yeah, yeah. I got it right. I said no, but I was talking shit. It's a, for me,

it's a dual meaning of, like, piece of, like, coming to a place where we're adults and we can do this, and then pieces were like,

all the pieces of these things are, yeah, you know, so double meaning. Yeah, but spelled like the, you know, like the piece sign.

But, like, even this, right? Like, do you ask that question? And Chris is answering and I'm listening to him explain something that

I probably would never have heard him say, unless we were sitting here doing that. I think that's successful. That's a deeper path into my friend's, like, mindset on it. It makes me happy to hear that he's happy. And then he got back something he thought he lost. Yeah. So I think that's successful friendship.

That's a big fucking thing for me. Tom is my friend now. Yeah. You know, fucking Will's my friend. Yeah. These are people that... They did two of my best friends. Yeah.

They weren't in my life before. Like, this band has given... I think I can speak for both. us like so much. Yeah. So you feel like this is success. Oh, this is it.

Yeah. Absolutely. Like anything, this is all like extra shit. I mean, you know, we got to be in a band. We're still in this band.

So it's been awesome. Like the whole ride. Even like the break in between. Like you said, maybe it was kind of necessary for us to come back. Oh, definitely.

But not everyone comes back and does it. A lot of people come back and it's like, either they don't feel the same or it's a cash grab or the fucking it's lightning in a bottle where you can't do it again I feel like you did it again

we talked about it a lot I don't think we would have released anything if it was subpar Will punt he's such a big fan as well there's no way when I heard you program but I was just like fuck I mean yeah him

like you kind of said he was kind of an additional member of Stray I mean he became an additional member of the band when we're in the studio you know he's awesome yeah he's fucking great you know he's I'm desperate for him to do Metallica.

That would be awesome. Imagine. Imagine. Yeah, imagine it. I mean, he's S-tier producer. Like, the fact that, I mean, James Headfield or Lars is not knocking on his door. It's kind of crazy. I feel like they go for it.

Yes, man. I think I have a big, and I'll put you guys as legacy metalcore band. I think every legacy band should go to Will Pony, provided he likes the band. Yeah. Because the guy's a fucking genius. I'm done with sucking Tom and wears fucking Packers in this podcast. I think when you reach a certain level, you have to consciously surround yourself with no men.

Yeah, no man. I love a nomad. And you know, I respect it so much. I respect it. I respect you for saying, you said, am I glistening? You said, am I glistening? And I said, is that because I'm listening? He was like, you're glistening.

I was like, that's a fucking no man. Love a no man. We need no men to succeed. But you were quick to be like, no, I have a new. skincare rich a bed. Exactly. So it was good. It wasn't like a detrimental.

No, but I'm also glistening because of the fucking lights and we're in Tennessee. Your skin is fantastic, by the way. It does. It looks very good.

It looks very good. I got prescribed this thing called Tretanoyne or something. And it's like, it nukes your fucking skin. It's prescription only. But is it for what lines? Yeah.

You have acne? What's wrong with your skin? Nothing. Just getting old. And this guy just hit me up. I had so, basically had so many comments on the podcast. people saying like, are you ill?

Because I got, because I'm, and all it is is, right, I'm just getting older in front of you guys. Yeah. I'm just getting older in front of you. And people are like,

oh my God, he looks like shit. Oh, he looks bad. Blah, blah, blah, is he unwell? So you have a plethora of noment on your, in your comment section.

Yeah. Or shit posters. A bit, I can't buy the both, but I was like, fuck, I do really look quite bad. I better do something about this.

And then I, I know, this is what happened. I just posted the comments onto my Instagram story. And then just some random doctor hit me up and was like, I think I asked for like, has anyone got skincare routines? Because I'm getting roasted on the internet.

And then this doctor hit me up. And he was like, ignore everything. This is the only thing that works is prescription only. I'll prescribe it for you. It fucking melts your skin. Like, I have to put it on, I can't put it on the day before I have a podcast because your skin like fucking flakes. But what it is is the collagen regenerating.

So like. My girlfriend probably knows about this. As long as you like moisturize. and whatever uses shit. Like, it's fucking great. I look young, I think. If you do, actually, I was like, man, this fucking skin looks great. Thanks, 39.

39 last week. Nearly 40. Have you belated. 45, going to be 45. Hey, you guys look good. This is a young old men's club. Yeah, I mean, it's also that fucking green light ain't helping either. That's a no man.

That's a fucking no man telling me about my lighting. I got one last question. If you have a good one for me, if the night's going to get caught. Is there anything about poison or else? story that you feel like hasn't been told enough. I don't think most people know how far we would try to go. And I don't know if this is relevant now, but because there's a lot of stuff that we can't. But like in the past, like we would go out of our way to like make sure that like people could come to our shows. And like when people were selling shirts for 20 bucks, we were

selling them for 10. And, you know, that we would try to. say we would do everything possible to make sure that the integrity of poison the well, how we viewed it was protected also so that the people who listened to us felt that we were a band that was doing things for the right reasons, that we were always being genuine that, you know, like I said before, like,

oh, everything I've ever written about I went through, you know, shit like that. So I guess I don't. necessarily care that it's being spoken about a lot. It's just something that I'm proud of. And I, you know, I don't know if that's something that anybody would know, but that you were for the people. Was that $10 shirts one of the shitty business decisions? I think at the time, like, well,

yeah, we just like, we were like, well, this is how much a shirt cost and we'll just sell it for this, not budgeting a tour. And then you come home, you're like, oh, yeah, I don't have any money. But the goal was accomplished, right? Yeah. The people who came to our shows were able to go, get a shirt, come into the show, too. Show was cheap. And they left, had a good time,

and didn't feel like they were stretched beyond what they can afford. And we got to play a show. I think, like, that contract is there. It's not their problem, what our bottom line is later on. Yeah. And I think we still try to do that as much as we can in this industry and in these times. with Tom Williams rubbing his greasy mits.

That's a joke. He's got to get that pool money. No. Yeah. The opposite of December pool. Yeah. The one that's not done yet. Yeah.

No, it's just every, as you know, everything. If you want to put on a show for people, that shit costs. Yeah.

Look at all those line items. So fucking expensive. Yeah. Have you got anything left on the bucket list? That poison well didn't achieve on time. I want to, we've never been to Asia. Never been to Asia.

Never been to Asia. Never. Dude. We were talking to the contention dudes. And you're like, oh yeah, we're going to fucking. Like Indonesia.

I'm like, how the fucking you guys going to do? Yeah, Tom. You're never done it, dude. I think it's just making it make sense in the budget when you go over there. You lose fucking money, but it's worth it. Well, I was trying to, we were trying to do like a South American tour and it was like, well, you're not going to make any money. I'm like, I don't give a fuck.

Like, as long as we're not losing money and whoever needs to do whatever they can do, like those ones are worth it. Yeah. I think so, especially too. When, if you're already saying, hey, we can't make this work. if it's not financially viable, that it's like, well, when is it going to be? And does that mean we're never going to go?

It might have to be, you've got to take one for the team so we can go play at these cool last places. It's starting again. Or you route a bunch of things that make money and then you do that so that it all can pay for itself. You know, you make some money in Australia. It's like, I have a flight, go to Japan, and you go to all the little.

That's basically what we're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the way to do it. I would love to, like, travel more. would be How company have you been though

No oh my god What to Indonesia Oh like any of the Southeast Asia Uh Japan I went to Philippines Would census fail And that's it

Yeah I've been Japan It's And this is the good thing About that you're with Tom Because I've done Two of The world's craziest

Fucking Southeast Asia Tours In Stray with Tom And it was Before Tom Was like the manager Giant

that he is day and it was like they're booking agents they're going to sort it out and we went and it was like play a show go immediately to the airport to fly to the next loading but now tom's seen that and been burnt by that so on counterparts and everyone goes they go show in this cool city day off in this cool city fly to the next cool city and i'm the the only thing right now because it's fresh to me and I'm like probably how you guys were when you disbanded like breath of fresh air Yeah. Like, oh, thank God that's over for now.

Yeah. The one thing I miss and still miss and still like in my head, I'm like, fuck, I would do another band for that is going to those places. Nice. Not even for money, just for the fun. Itch will come back. You'll be like, man, I want to play drums in the band.

That's already come back. But I'm like, I want to do a blackmail band. I want to do something fucking horrific. I think we're done. I need to go pack up my house. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it, man.