The Downbeat - Stan Bicknell - Drummer

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

My guest this week is phenomenal drummer, coffee nut, instagram sensation and very HEALTHY man, Stan Bicknell. Enjoy

Hello there. You lucky, lucky people are getting two podcasts in one week. And if you go to the live podcast on Friday, which I'm not going to try and sell you like I'd normally do, you're getting three podcasts this week, which is absolutely bonkers behavior. What's new? I've got about two minutes to talk to you

because this is live on Twitch.com TV slash Reynolds. but if you're at home listening to it on your like sonos or maybe your headphones, you're thinking, can you stop talking about that because I'm not involved? You should probably go there. If you're watching this, you might be on the Patreon, patreon. Patreon.com slash the downbeat. You might be watching the video from this. Oh, lovely and crispy HD video.

You might be watching it early on the Patreon because you signed up and it was only one pound. Or you could simply be at home wearing a lovely t-shirt from www. the downb-b-de-de-a-t.t, so it spells downbeat. you could just be wearing that and you're not even listening to this, but on all sort of quantum mechanics in the world, we're all along the same path, and you're still here in spirit wearing that lovely t-shirt that you got from that website that I mentioned earlier.

That's enough, that's the plugs. I've got a live podcast on Friday. It's already sold out so you can't fucking come. My guest this week is Mr. Stan Bicknell. If you're not a drummer, stick around still because he's one of those people that are, you know, they're annoying people that wake up well early and do, oh, I did a 7K followed by 550 squats,

ice bath sauna upside down, unicycled for three to four hours, and then I went to work, and then, you know, one of those annoying people. He's one of those. He's got an insane work ethic. the elephant in the room, he has the most insane right foot technique you will ever, ever see to the point that it's got him in trouble before. Maybe, maybe we'll get him smiling. Maybe we'll get into how it got him into trouble. We've already done a two-hour podcast, right?

And then it became three hours. We did the two hours and we stopped. Then we did a chat afterwards. And then we were like, do you know what? We should have probably done this with other people, and we should probably do this again because it was good, but we learned a lot, and let's reconvene. We'll get into why.

Let's reconvene. But it was great. We basically just had a three-hour chat, and then we should probably do this again. It was great, but you can't hear it. My guest this week on the Downbeat Podcast is Mr. Stan. Bicknell. Absolutely seamless.

I'm a fucking professional. Don't hurt yourself. Absolute professional. Hi, Stan. Yo, Craig. How are you, buddy? I'm all right. May I just say this?

Your room looks delightful. Oh, thanks, man. I'm pretty happy with it, eh? And it's almost a mirror image of my room, as in like, in terms of you've got a big LED, if you're only listening to this on the audio podcast, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to get a television or something. You've got a nice LED and then you've got a smaller LED.

It's almost like we're in the same room. I know. Look at it. It's beautiful. Symmetry. You've got a delightful sounding microphone. If only every guest. If only every guest would be like you, Stan.

Yeah, but remember, you and I talked about doing this for about two or three years. And the reason why you wouldn't is because I didn't have a good mic. Oh yeah, do you remember that? And you were like... Look at the transformation, man. You were so adamant that you were like, oh, it's all about the message, though, isn't it? It's not about the quality. And I was like, let me tell you about these, Dan.

I am 100% quantity over quality. More lights, more lenses, make it look nice. And they won't realize that what I'm saying is absolute bollocks. I remember meeting you like three years ago at a festival and a street and you were like, oh man, I've got to get you on the podcast. And then we just basically talked about it for two and a half years until I bought a microphone. And you know what? We also had such a good chat at that festival, which you saying it was three years,

I mean, it was two, but that just reminds me other than... Oh, it was just before COVID, eh? Yeah, true. Other than the shows I just did in America, that was the first, that was the last shows before COVID. Yeah, true. Yeah, because that was in January. Yeah. And then the world turned on its head.

Do you want to know something mental? Do you want to know something absolutely crazy? It was two years ago today. No, it fucking wasn't. It fucking was. No, it wasn't. It came up in my memories. Holy shit.

I met you. No, I met you two years ago today. Let me just double check. Wow. That's pretty cool, man. I want to see when. it was. I'm just checking. Let's go. This is dead air. It was exactly two years ago today. Bro, that is fucked up. It's meant to be, man. I'm actually blown away by that. That's fucking

crazy. We were sat, I think, who said hello to who first? We were messaging each other. I think I might have seen you on my socials or you might have seen me and we realized we're at the same festival. and then we just started trying to figure out where the fuck we were. And then we met in the band area and sat down and had a great chat. We sat on the picnic bench. We did. And there was a little coffee place, which I thought was quite nice. You probably turned a nose up at it.

I wasn't into it. Nah, of course you weren't. He's a coffee nerd. Who were you playing with them? I was playing with a pop rock outfit called Tonight Alive. Who are absolutely mental in your body. part of the world, which is where? Well, in the southern hemisphere, but in Australia at the time, but I'm now in New Zealand.

I'm now back in New Zealand. You're back in New Zealand. I met you in Australia. Were you still in Australia then? Yes. Yeah. So I was there up until December last year. So I was there for another year.

And then back to, because I can tell, I mean, I obviously know this, but if anyone doesn't know, Stan is originally from New Zealand. And the way you can tell that, the way, it's a little. a little hack, a little life hack that you can use in your day-to-day life. Americans always say that I'm Australian though, but I think that's because I walk in with one of those hats with corks on it and I'm like, hey, mate. But what with, I've got to get it right, with people from New Zealand, do you call people from New Zealand Kiwi?

Is that like, and that's a fine term? I'm not saying something insane. Yeah, yeah, that's not derogatory. You fucking, you fuck, you Kiwi. It could be. Anyway, so your vowels are mixed up. So the I, so say something. Say, you would say, say, G-I-G, like you're going to play a show.

A gig. Yeah, that's, your I and your U are switched. Because you, you pretty much said Gug, G-G, G-U-G. right so now let's say a word that has oh man is this weird that we're going let's say a word that has a you in it this is taking me back to my childhood mocking my accent

I'm not mocking it listen to mine I sound like a weird geyser farmer I sound like someone like half like a gangster movie from London but then also half like got to tend to my crops say mud mud

mud that was a you though so I'm wrong but anyway that's how you can tell. My favourite word for a Kiwi to say is gig and and fish and chips fish and chips fush and chaps

Fush and chaps love it and I live in Scotland and my parents are Scottish but they I was brought up in England and they live in England but I live in Scotland so I'm a huge So born in Scotland No born

I was born in England they're from Scotland and then they live in England and now I live in Scotland. We're just trying to get away from each other, I think. We're not really. But there's a similar, like, disconnect there with the accents. Anyway, people aren't here to listen to accents. If you've just joined in on the Twitch,

because I can see that it went from 140 people to 5,492 people. If you've just joined in, this is Stan Bicknell. He is a professional drummer, incredibly talented professional drummer. Blurrs that. line from guy from the internet at drums but also plays gigs. Kind of like...

It's a weird line that one. It is. I've actually, I went the other way. Most people are like, they get reasonably big on social media and then they get gigs out of that, which I've seen a lot of people getting fired for editing recently, which is sick. I've been loving that dialogue. But I did the opposite.

it. So I was, I was just gigging from about 13 and then COVID happened and I was like, really must become an influencer or else I'm not going to have any money whatsoever. So you're saying it was actually strategic for you? Or considered? I mean, not the, I use the word influencer there, like semi-ironically. But I remember thinking when COVID happened. and it was like, oh, this tour that's in October's been cancelled and we're currently in February,

I was like, okay, this is actually serious. I've already got a reasonable, like, presents on the internet. Kind of really milk that. Trying to really pump that cash cow. And then it happened. I mean, I did also have to pay out a huge divorce in the, in the, uh... Yes, to 6,485 people. Yeah, well, you were speaking about that when we first.

met if you remember you were going through that when i met you oh yeah that was that was fresh fresh as the daisy very fresh bro but i had to be like okay well i've got no gigs so i need to pay for this somehow so i just hustled the internet but you came you came from internet hustle yeah well i um whatever happened however you want to perceive my socials it was not intentional at all and if anything i've sort of pushed back a little bit against it since it sort of went to where it did. Because like you, just started gigging, playing in bands, touring and all of that sort of stuff. But when the socials took off, I was not actually intending it to go that way.

It wasn't even considered. It was just by chance. When did they pop off? Set the scene for me because you came out and know, you came out of, like, absolutely nowhere for me. And then you were everywhere. See, that's the thing. Like, I had already been gigging and touring. I'd been with a major label act.

I'd done a lot of big things back in this part of the world. You go that chip on your shoulder about it. I really, I got to you a little bit there. I saw your eyes change. Listen, you're known for being the foot guy. I'm sorry. Hey, that's fine. I'm down with that.

That's all good. Some people aren't known for being any. It was a conversation with you that kind of like recalibrated my whole frame of mind with the foot thing. mate someone came up to me in the street the other day like don't be afraid like at least your one is like based in extreme talent someone came up to me in the street the other day in Glasgow City Centre and went you're that drum and it dresses up like a woman sometimes

and I went yeah that'll be me and he went can't remember your name and I went up and I went okay like as if I was supposed to be I was supposed to be like I don't know I can't remember your name It's like it's not my job for you to remember my name And it was like it was fine

Like we had took a photo or whatever I don't know what the hell he's going to put me the photo on But like that's that's my foot guy I guess I was going to say I get coined as the coffee guy with the foot And you're now the drummer that dresses up as a woman Well I'll take either of those to be honest I think I prefer yours honestly

Less talent involved because I don't do that absolutely any of it. Right, anyway, set the scene. Set me this scene. Well, it's going to be like loose dates, but maybe like four or five years ago. I've been in this situation a couple of times because I've got young kids. They're a bit older now, but at the time they were young, where I couldn't really talk too heavily because I just didn't like leaving my kids. And so whenever that happened, I'd pull out of bands that I was playing with at the time. And one of those periods, Instagram was just sort of popping off, I suppose, especially in the drumming world. I would say that I was a part of that initial wave of sort of growing an audience and whatnot.

But I purely treated it as a place. It just took all the energy that I was putting into shows and bands. I just started sharing clips of things I was working on on Instagram purely as an outlet. I didn't really anticipate or even think about what I could do with it, the growth or anything like that. But it got pretty nutty, pretty quick. And like, so how nutty? Have you got a, like, what was your, what was your figures, your Instagram figures,

and then what did they become, and how quickly was that? Well, I had maybe, as a touring drummer, I was already using Instagram, and I probably had maybe, I don't know, up to 1,000 or 1,500 followers of just local drummers. And then in the space of about eight months, it went to about 120,000. See, this is what I remember. You can have your little chip on your shoulder about it, but people would pay extreme money. to do that. And,

and, because I know that it, like, affected you because, you know, everyone just called you the foot guy, because if you don't know, Dan's,

Stan's right foot is absolutely unbelievable. Posted a couple of videos, and the best thing about it was they were camera audio. You had that nice, you were working in coffee roasters, that nice, my coffee roaster, yeah. Your coffee.

Roastery, which was called? Rumble coffee roasters. Rumble coffee. And you were, like, the natural reverb in there was crazy. Yeah, man, it sounded fantastic. And it was just like, you had insane chops, but then there was a couple of videos just of the foot, and you were doing, you know, insane double kick patterns with one foot.

And they're the ones that really, really took off. Yeah, so I knew that I was working on something pretty unique. when I was doing it. But when it came to Instagram, the feedback was so immediate because I was already with companies. At the time, I was endorsed by Sonor, Remo, Ziljan,

and I can't remember the stick company at the time, to be honest. But the point is, is that they started sharing my content, and that's where the influx came from, because they put my content out to their audiences, which were much larger than mine, and all of a sudden I just got inundated. And that's when I was kind of like, oh fuck okay i i played the game for ages man because i realized the foot videos they obviously gain

you know a bit of a bit of a viewing and so then i just started to lean into it and it was good because it's like an accountability system too so it sort of forced me to push my playing more and sort of but then it got to the point where it was just too much like what i mean by that without boring you is just it just got too noisy man it started the the online world and the creation of content and then seeing my content everywhere just got in the way of me just working on my drumming and so that's when I started to sort of get over it a bit. I did that in a lesser sense the last six months. I put absolutely every single bit of my drumming on Twitch and now I'm giving myself

six months of doing the opposite because you get, I don't know if you felt the same, but it becomes more performative than like actually fixing the things that you need to fix. So I actually found I played those shows in December and I was real. bad and it was like i've been playing these songs over and over again for the last six months why why wasn't i that good and it's because there's little problems that you know like if you're playing um rushing that crash or whatever if you've got you know up to 20 000 people watching you play through a song the easiest thing to do when they're not there is to just slow it down and make sure you're not rushing that crash and you do that like five times and it never

happens again. But all of those were just getting swept under the rug in the name of performance. So I think I actually got worse at the drums. So I'm doing the offset now. No one can see my practice. No, that's quite interesting because I would say that probably at a point there, I was so bound by my content in the way that people were taking it in that I almost felt like I was going backwards as well. Because, you know, like with Instagrams, especially these days, there's a brand to them almost. People got very used to seeing that red brick wall behind me. And then I realized I was shackled by the way that it looked, the way that I was doing my content. And for something that started off quite natural, it became, I was quite bound by it. And so then I just started burning

the bridge, bro. Like, I deleted all my content. I fucking, I just started pushing back against the system, which is, I look back on it. And it's such a throwing, throwing your toys moment, you know. And the second I started doing that, the growth started to stop as well because, you know, Instagram doesn't forget. Yeah, because I remember you did only six posts or 12 posts or something on your feed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you deleted all your old shit. You're a psycho. Well, first I actually left Instagram for about a month.

I just completely deleted all my content and just left the page up, but just bailed. It was really just to get my head together because another thing to add to it is that I hadn't turned notifications off. and so I was just getting inundated you know and so then I took a break came back and I had this theory that no one really goes much deeper than 12 posts anyway and so I just every time I uploaded a 13th post I'll delete the oldest

and I was pretty sick of seeing these fucking drum pages repost pages use my content to to build their brand and they're not tagging and all that and that's a little bit of a throwing your toys moment too but I think ultimately it comes down to like there's a value in what we do you know like there we have a like this is why i don't put up clips and break down licks and stuff and put up notation and shit because it's just we're just giving it away otherwise and drumming has value and i don't want to devalue IP you know see i've got

i'm i'm with you on half of that and i'm against you on the other heart so i'm with you on the repost page things repose pages are and to be honest even though i do them myself, reaction videos, both of them, right, I'm a little shrimp. Like someone else,

like, react, let's go repose pages first, and then I'll explain what I think is the same with reaction pages. Yeah. Repost pages,

like what they do, they find, it's really easy to find someone's really good drum video. You just search for drums and you look at the top one. It's the biggest video. And that's,

That's the way the algorithm works. So then they rip that. They put it on their post exactly the same video that because it's so good, naturally gets the same engagement or very close to what it originally had because originally, unless the product is good, the algorithm doesn't give it shit anyway.

You can't game it with awful content. But then what they do, like you're saying, they don't tag or anything. They amass like 100K followers. Then they either sell the account, which is the thing, or they start selling t-shirts or they start doing bought at like people smaller drummers can buy on the page and stuff like that

and it's just like you didn't do anything for that so I'm with you on those they should be banned I block them immediately the minute I get tagged in one yeah same I block it let's see you next but what don't you agree with um giving stuff away like it's not there I do agree with a bit of that but not devaluing I mean I've been playing for 25 years and I've been putting a lot of

fucking work into my kick technique I'm not just going to go like I'm not just going to teach it through Instagram I'd rather actually Oh yeah Hard degree that but you said like notation Well I suppose with notation I mean that's just low hanging fruit

I just don't really care for that That's probably a better way to play I'll just can't be asked to do it I sit in front of a computer and go But figure out what you did Yeah and I suppose the end of the day I don't really see I don't want to learn or teach licks verbatim I want to learn and teach them more conceptually so that whole notation thing like here's a 16 note fucking

chop I'm like that's the worst thing that a young player could do because you start to get bound by those notes and it's really hard to break away from them it's so interesting how like drumming because of YouTube and because of Instagram because of these free chops and everything which I'm indifferent towards. I've definitely stolen some chops off Mike Johnston video, your new favourite six-stroke chop. Actually, yes, it is. Yes, it is my new favourite chop.

Classic. I don't watch those. Evolution-wise, hang on, why don't you watch them? I don't watch lessons or anything that are about a specific thing because I'd rather just sort of take things in more conceptually. I don't want to be too influenced by a single sound. that's what I'm saying what I'm saying what like

it's weird how drumming now almost every drummer kind of sounds the same because we've all and that that includes most of us in it the only person that I can think is a true artistic genius

at the drum kit is Eric Eric and Prore does Eric and Proto does Eric and Prerer he does stuff that just like I've never seen anyone do the rest of us are kind of doing

we're pushing the envelope on ideas that have already happened that motherfucker's got like a wah pedal and his sneer yeah he's a pure artist for sure loved into it love it but again you don't see him although he works

you ever see he does drummio stuff yeah and it's like coach yeah and he was I spoke to him about it before he was gonna do it and he was like much like what you were saying he was like I didn't want to do this is a 16th note thing or whatever so he does like conceptual how can you make what you're doing different like real coaching which i think is cool yeah man because i mean i teach right so i teach

privately at home more advanced students and i teach at a local music school more sort of beginner to intermediate and with both sides like i mean without getting too caught up in at all like i take it pretty fucking seriously and i just think that um with my advanced students conceptual is always better for them because otherwise they will get choked by licks. They will get choked by a single idea. They are like they look really good on the surface. They sound really amazing on the surface. But you get so restricted in what it is, it has to be taught more conceptually, you know?

Yeah. When I was teaching, like I was taught by not a bad, but like a uninspiring drummer. And you know what? Quite a lot of it probably was all I wanted to do. do was like smoke and talk to girls so like I I wanted to do drumming because it was cool but I couldn't really bother to put the work in until a bit later on but I remember when I decided when I went to music school and I like decided to be better at the drums because I was the worst in my class I just remember I'd always just been taught sorry to go roundabout to

your conceptual versus chop thing I'd always just been taught this is a paradigil I was never taught this is a paradigdle and here is a billion different ways that it can be the coolest thing you've ever heard. So I'm pretty sure it was like lesson two when I went to music school

and they were like the paradigdle and they were like, oh, the paradigdle as a groove and I was like, the paradigdle as a what? The paradigdle as a group. Wait, that's what all my favorite drummer is doing. And then from that, I took, when I went to go teach, the, here's the concept,

the paradigdle, here's the chop. that you can make from it and like show them that on lesson one because otherwise if you just go right left right right left right left that's a parody it'll learn it's like no it's bad business for me to learn that teach because I don't know what it can do yeah so yeah I think also like yeah I mean going back to the whole burning the bridge thing with the Instagram as well I suppose I should add the caveat that I had a business then so I had a income I wasn't really let's just say that I was just gigging at the time because the reason why I stopped gigging

was so I could be more focused on my kids set up my business and all of that if that wasn't happening and I was just a gigging drummer and then the Instagram took off I probably would have lent into it even more and I probably would have like really focused on creating content giving away more IP and stuff

but because I wasn't sort of financially driven I kept it more in the creative space you know which is probably the best way to do it. I'm not better than those people. I'm not trying to say that. It's just that my situation meant that I didn't have to kind of move down that path, you know? I mean, everyone's, you probably, it's probably for the best because everyone's doing it now.

I know a bunch of people and they are trying their hardest. They've got content out there as good as everyone else. But they are not getting views. They're not getting money from it. And it's like, how many, like, you're going to. Well, if you're trying to do that now, you're way late man you're gonna have to do something is over hard out yeah so it's quite funny so when I

transition my content more into just being general moving it away from the brand that it was my growth sort of stopped at that point but I didn't really lose any which I found quite interesting like people I was really concerned about the shift I was thinking fuck am I gonna lose these people and stuff at the end of the day it's just numbers but I remember thinking about that and then the first time I put up a coffee post or like a workout or something like that I was like oh fuck how's it gonna be

Now, it got no likes and it got no comments, but people didn't leave. Isn't it crazy, though? Like, it's so weird that you can have 100,000 people and they're all following you for one thing. And the minute you try and put something else in, they go, I don't like that. And that's like the commoditization of Instagram, that Instagram makes the not only like drums, but like people. But so I... Yeah, they can do your head in, man.

That's when the mental health shit starts because you're like, fuck, is this all they want? You know, is this all the world wants from what I do? It is, yeah, it is. But how you wrestle with that really just depends on the individual, you know? You just got to squeeze the money out. Just got squeeze... Which I reckon I would have if I was in a different situation,

but I didn't need to. How do you do it on Instagram, though? I don't think you can squeeze enough, enough juice out of Instagram. You can use it as like a... a precursor to getting people to come to other monetize things. That's all it is, bro. Yeah, you can't like, unless you've got something else. Like, you raise the theoretical dollars.

I mean, I've been offered money to advertise products, right? So maybe 500 bucks for a product. And I mean, I mean, I can't even count them many times, how many times someone's emailed me or deemned me. And they're legitimate, too. There's a thousand of them that aren't legitimate. So there is ways to actually like sell, you know, or haul yourself out, I suppose.

But I don't actually, for one, I would never do that. But yeah, I suppose like with the guys that are doing, the only way to monetize is I've watched you did Instagram as a business card. That's all that is, bro. It's really just a stepping stone to where else you would want to commoditize or where else you would want to draw them into to pull income from. It's just a stepping stone. That's it.

And so the numbers really work in your favor, obviously, but you're not really, I mean, you'll get gear, bro. You'll know this. Like, fuck. Bro, like I've been looked after really well, purely based on my Instagram. numbers and I was already endorsed prior but that that level up that that um you know it just gave me a little bit more value to the companies because they're just sitting there only seeing the numbers you know do you ever like have you started to think with with the because you know like obviously

the free gear thing so we get free gear because we've got yeah uh big numbers or whatever because we do whatever stuff have you got to the point with anyone that in your head you're you're like, I should really be getting some money here for this. Are you getting to that point? I haven't, and I've actually spoken to, of all people, I spoke to Thomas Pridgin about this. Leah and I have kept in touch for a long time now, and we actually, we sort of, he's got a real strong opinion on this. I don't know if you've ever picked up on the dialogue, but he believes that... He's got strong opinions on everything.

On everything, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's quite funny, like I've said to him that I don't think just because I've got 150,000 Instagram followers, I should be getting paid by Yamaha, but I still see value in those numbers, so they should look after me, for sure. I see the value, but I don't think I should be getting paid. I mean, getting paid, that's my job. Like, I'm not going to fucking rest on a company,

because what happens if the industry falls apart, and I've built my life on this income from Yamaha, but now they're not fucking selling drum kits because the world's just shut down. Like, it's just dumb. Yeah, but, but, but, but, but, but. And I agree a little bit. right but what if let's not take yama let's not take any let's make up a new endorser

right because i don't want to throw anyone under the bus this is this is where my this is where my brain is starting to go and it's not if anyone from all of my plethora of companies is watching i don't need money please continue to give me free things but listen because like the pandemic happened and nobody's touring. Nobody's reading magazines and these companies have huge,

huge, huge, huge amounts of money put away for Drum Magazine Full Page ads. You know how much one of those is? Loat. Touring, I don't know why, but touring drummers getting the latest kit or whatever to show it off, that's a form of

advertising and they take it off. Pandemic happens. who's advertising their stuff everyone on the internet is doing it technically for free so it would just be great if there was the problem is where you can't buy

from specific drum companies if there weren't distributors involved if let's say you could go to globdrums.com and you that's where you bought them from no matter where your region is then affiliate at codes and stuff like that

could work really well because then you could actually see you know like what influencers do on like a manscape or all that stuff which I refuse to do for anything that I don't actually use but like at some point there's a lot of money that is no longer going into

magazines and it's just going into cost price drum kits everyone's still playing the drums everyone's still at home playing guitar playing the drums the companies are still getting loads and loads and loads of money. They're not getting any less because almost everyone that's touring. Maybe they get a little bit less because your local bands aren't getting the money.

Give us some of that money. What's Thomas Pigeon saying about? My only push back against that is that are we talking about like advertising the drums or just using them? I mean, there's a difference. If you post a video with your, what pedals do you use? I'm not going to plug them. The shoe company. Who's the shoes you wear?

All birds. Right, all birds. Yeah. I bet you've sold hundreds of pairs of those. Yeah, and I haven't had to worry about shoes for five years now. Yeah, how many, how many pairs of shoes are they giving you? Do you want to, oh, fuck, I don't know if I can say. Are they giving you a pro?

Let me just say, oh, no, no, no, a fuckload. Let me just put it that way. And these aren't cheap, man. Like, these are $220 shoes. And not only that, but I get. They're giving you 12. They're giving you 12 pairs a year? More than that.

Nice. Let me just say that if you were a size 12 in my circle, you're doing all right. Oh, you're a size 12. No wonder your feet's good. You've got two of them on one. You're playing double pedal. Now Lewis apparently has like 15s. You're playing a double paddle with a single paddle with one foot.

No, I guess we differ slightly in opinion there. No, I do agree with you. But if I was like there's a difference between doing an ad on an Instagram page for Yamaha, like, or just me just showing a video. But that will do less for the company. That will, if we took, if we take the general way that everything is considered to work, which is wrong in my opinion, the system, if you will, you doing a sponsor post for Yamaha will sell far less Yamaha drum kits than you playing them for a year and them sounding real sick. on Instagram. That's my point. Native advertising,

where it's just more just general. I wasn't, I'll be completely candid here. I wasn't getting, um, I was playing a drum kit you couldn't buy. And I had a few Twitch streams, um,

which had like 330,000 people. And however many comments out of those that were like, oh, um, you, what drum kit? Oh, you can't get that drum kit? What finishes that?

And like the questions, I was just like, you can't, you can't buy this drum kit. And then afterwards, I was like, wait a minute. I'm doing such good advertising it.

I want a new drum kit. And then I spoke to Tamara and they were like, what, you're doing? What? You can have whatever you want. And I was like, oh, cool.

Yeah. But I do worry, and I'm happy with that. Like, a drum kit, you don't need, you don't need, I don't need more than one drum kit

every five years. And that's, even that is like, just in terms of, being able to promote something that they're still selling. But like I do worry that there's, and I know some, there's some jammers out there that I know,

that we both know, and they're doing far too much for their companies and not actually getting paid, while they don't have a gig, they still live at home with their mum. And it's like... For sure. Basically, I'm just trying to unite the workers here.

I think the thing is, is that, like, in the early days of my social media, I was growing, so I wasn't sitting. there seeing it like I was posting heaps and really promoting my companies because I was trying to gain my following and gain their respect when I got to the point where I was getting free gear I was like okay great the follow ships there but I can pull back now I don't need to be you know advertising the fuck out of them because everyone knows what I use anyway and if anything I do things like

like it's really at your discretion I don't tag my companies all the time um because there's a little bit of push and pull there yeah and it's like people can see what the company is I just the way I do it is like, I, if someone asks, and it's something I got for free, you, and I love, you bet your ass, I'm going to talk about it and tell the person about it, and I'm going to tell them I love it and stuff. Like, I'm, don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy with my situation, but I think that's because I have other hustles that come out of the drums. If I was just doing the Twitch drummer, Instagram drummer thing,

and I was putting these numbers, but then, like, not making money from it, I would be like, who, I'd be thinking who can give me some money for this. Do you want to know something interesting? Always, Stan. Only one drummer got paid for the Zildjan live videos, those performances. See, I, see that I would agree with. That only one drummer should get paid. That no drummers could be, should get paid.

That's where I see it the other way around for those It should be all or none Oh for sure Yeah yeah no the only reason this drummer did is because they protest it Fuck yeah Whoever that was Hell yeah I feel like I know who it was But thinking like how many drummers have done that

And the calibre that we're talking about here And what those videos did for I mean the company Fucking hell At the time they were like the The greatest sort of audio and video videos for a symbol company around. You know who pays their artists

to go and record their videos, which are the best videos on YouTube.com for drums? Oh, your mate's mine all. They pay pretty bloody well as well. Yeah, well, that's the thing. You should. You got the money there. Bro, if it's clinics, performances,

like if I was doing anything for Yamaha, which I've spoken to them about, like, streaming and things like that, absolutely. Like, money's... Clinics, bro. Paid for clinics. Like, I think you start paying everybody that has a few thousand followers where you can't actually, I mean, because the thing, I know plenty of drummers that have numbers similar to me. And I know for a fact they bought their followers, bro.

So if it's just a matter of, how do you actually do it? You can look at the views. Like there would be, if you, and you should, and too many of the companies don't, if you have a person employed, a young person employed, youngish, younger than you. Someone hip. Employed to do social media, their thing should be to check who is juicing their numbers because so many people are juicing their numbers.

And then go like, okay, this guy, I don't know, they should maybe, there should be an element of somebody checking and there should be almost a hierarchy on the computer. Like this guy basically gets what, a guy is gender neutral, by the way. I'm sorry, should get whatever they want essentially.

But I feel like, and I don't know this for a fact, I feel like some of the older drummers who, when there was no Napster, no nothing magazines were the only place to advertise, who are getting paid to move brands and stuff like that, I feel like maybe some of them are still getting paid. And it's like, this is what I'm saying. So apparently Pearl have never paid to play Pearl drums. Pearl have never ever paid their artists.

I'll take never. But what I don't want is, well, we used to, and then we realize that everyone's advertising for us, and that we could get away with not paying for it. That's fine. I'm fine with never. Never is great. Yeah.

Yeah. I suppose it's up to the individual. I think I'm in probably a different situation, because I've never relied specifically on my drumming for my income. So I suppose I'm coming at it from more of a unrealistic viewpoint. Or I think there's the difference between usage and advertising. And I think if we started paying everyone with some numbers, or the industry wouldn't survive very long.

Where did that money go then? Because all the drum magazines have gone. So where's that advertising money going? Because it definitely was there. And everyone's more people than ever are picking up an instrument. So where's that? That's my point. Where's that money going?

It was there. Yeah. It should go. I'm not saying it should go to every drummer with a few thousand followers, but I don't know. I'm saying this like I'm better. I'm saying this like I'm there. I'm not bitter at all.

I'm just, I know a few drummers who are struggling, and I look at how much they do for their companies, and I'm like, you really should just give them some money. Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. I'd agree with that part of it.

But at the same token, should start looking at other things. Yeah, you know? True. I mean, bro, I've hustled my way through this whole fucking thing, man. I've always had side hustles. I've always had side businesses, you know. I mean, the starving artist isn't a new concept. It's been around since the dawn of fucking touring and gigs, you know? It's annoying, isn't it? It is, but I mean, it's across the board with arts. Arts have never been considered something

in the grand scheme. Everyone likes to use art, music, enjoy art. but they don't like to pay for it. The streaming services have destroyed it even more as well. Yeah, you bring up the Napster thing. I mean, Lars got fucking drawn and quartered for his stance on that. And then still, I don't even hear anyone coming back going, oh man, he was right. But then as a position, everyone did realize that we devalued the product. I mean, the way he went about, it wasn't particularly correct.

Yeah, for sure. It would have been a bit more tasteful. Because I actually think that that pushback led to, they're being like music is either free or you have to buy a CD like there was a divide there because of the whole Napster thing whereas the rhetoric should have been okay well let's let's invent Spotify which before it was invented and let's adequately pay people I've got big big beef with Spotify well I think where they fucked up is that

because that's when say Apple music came about you know iTunes and they were charging for digital versions of the CDs but they were fucking charging them CD price, which made no sense. There should have been a middle ground there. Terrible. But you know what, actually, because I always thought that was terrible.

By Spotify, I meant all the streaming services, by the way. They've all got. Yeah, for sure. I actually found out because I was the same. I was like, this is insane.

Like, why are you selling a non-physical product for the same price as going to the store or whatever? But it was actually because, the same with games, there is a law put in place and it's up until I think maybe like 20, 25 or something that you can't severely undercut the retail stores. It's in order to prop the retail stores up

which is already falling apart because everyone wants just the ease of sitting at home. But that's why like a PlayStation game is more expensive when it comes out to download it than it is to get it in the shop because otherwise no one would go to the shops and it would collapse the business. some people might say that, you know, we need to completely destroy the system.

This whole thing is a, you know, I've got 12,000 people now. House of cards. Yeah, but this whole thing is that me secretly just uniting the workers. I had a... You're for the people, Craig. I am. I had a seamless, I'm for the people, but also... So give me some money.

No, so this is my next point. Come on, man. You're the king of diversification. Like, you've actually, you know, you're pulling from multiple. areas. I mean, I would say that you're on the higher end of it all, you know. Don't tell them that. What I was going to say, no, is because this is what, it's seamless transition

into the last year on Twitch I made more, I figured it out, I made more money on Twitch. And it wasn't loads before anyone goes, he's rich, he's got a big neon light. I made more money on Twitch. than I have ever made from performed, um, not live,

but like on a record, street, so I mean streaming royalties, actual album advances, uh, anything to do with the, the making of an album and it's subsequent money from the actual music I made more in the last year on Twitch than I made in 16 years of being in band.

Fuck, that's impressive, man Is it? Or did I just get completely underpaid and live with my parents until I was 26? Well, these are the big questions, then that was that one. So we have... Bro, I suppose while you're talking about you on Twitch, I mean, that's the whole reason why I set up my studio,

because something that came out of our conversation when we first talked. We spoke for two hours, had this great podcast, got a little bit controversial in areas, then we spoke for another hour, right? And then I was saying to you, I was like, man, I'm back in New Zealand. I don't want to be in coffee anymore.

My kids are older now, so I'm just leaning into the drumming thing a little bit more, which has been fantastic because the phone was ringing. But I was like, I'm trying to find this place because I wanted to set up a studio, but I wanted to kind of merge my skill sets, which is between performance, teaching, content creation, because I do like engaging in my audience. You know, for all that I was pushing back, I actually really do enjoy sharing my path online, I suppose. and then I was like you were like bro you should come over to switch like it's it'll kind of encapsulate everything you do and that conversation literally like was the like a 90 degree turn

and here we are now bro like my studio I spent the last three months building the studio bro like I went all in and because you know one thing you said to me which which now in hindsight I realize there's such a um a high bar of entry is you said don't do it all by halves. And for a drummer to come into this world and not do it by halves is really fucking hard. So expensive. Bro, like if you were a guitarist or if I was a guitarist, it'd be so much easier to roll this out. But as soon as you bring a drum kit in, it's insane. So yeah, I think the Twitch thing, you are the sort of one of the early adopters of it. And I'm only coming into it now, but I see massive potential. And I don't see it getting too flooded because I think it's just a

little bit too hard to fucking do. It's, yeah. I mean, I even came in pretty late in the grand scheme of things, but then you coming in is still early in the grand scheme of things, especially what you're saying with drummers. Like, the numbers don't really lie. People want to see a real drum kit. And that, unfortunately, I believe you're in the same boat as me. I just got a credit card out and I spent nine grand.

Just like I want to make this good and real. And then it paid off. Yeah. So I, I, when I was in Melbourne, I sold my, my shares,

my third of my coffee roaster to my business partners and came back with a big capital. So I just used that. And I, you know, my wife and I bought a house here. But I had the intention of setting up another business or doing something with X amount of money.

And as soon as you and I had that conversation, I was like, that's where I'm putting my money. And it's the best decision I could have made, man. You haven't started yet, have you? No, no, but I'm not even talking about just Twitch specifically, just having the room and the way that the room is and the way that I can produce content now

and just do lessons online and things like that. And I can track for people in here, bro. It's a very sort of multi-use space, you know. Nice. And that's all because of you, brother. It was a synchronicity chat, wasn't it? We're going to touch on some of the stuff that we did talk about in that chat, but I want to stay on the Twitch thing for a minute.

I want Simon, my mod, if you're listening to this in the audio podcast, hey Simon, there's no Simon. Simon's the mod in the Twitch, Twitch. Twitch.tv slash Renaud. Seamless plug. Could you make a little exclamation mark Stan thing and then put Twitch.combe slash Stan Bicknell so everyone can go and follow Stan.

Because when he comes on to Twitch, I'm going to be watching. Do you know what? from a business point of view, there's not many people that I've told all of the, like, helped on the ins and the outs of stuff. You deliberately didn't ask me a bunch of stuff, which I appreciate it, but you're one of the people that I would have. I made a point of not asking you anything from that first conversation because I didn't

want to not figure it out myself. So you and I had that first chat, and then that was it. And then the thing is, you figured out you did exactly what I did, do all the Google groundwork, and then we came we come out with the same setup because you google it it's the best thing but that's fine you google it yeah well yeah if you're talking about the quality definitely man like i went all in on my interfaces i went all in on my computers i went all in on my mics like um i mean i hooked up with the lighting company nanoleaf so that was just sort of like something that happened by proxy of doing this um my mokka master so my my coffee brewer that was getting all those plugs in

yeah and my all birds choose no Did you pay for that market master? No, ma'am. I might be now. I've got a little space there. That'd be nice. Craig, we just, I'm not here to pay. We just spoke about this.

I mean, yeah, getting coffee free is pretty good. What was I going to say? About the Twitch thing, the conversation. Fuck. Well, people are asking you or trying to. Oh, okay, yeah. And people just come in, oh, what camera do you use and all this shit? And it's like, there's a few.

people who I think, because obviously I'm in, and now you, I'm in pretty early with the inception of Twitch music. So Twitch was primarily a gaming thing and still a lot of people just think it's a gaming thing and they're branching out into music and stuff like that. So it's pretty early in the inception. So I'm actually, as I'm for the people, I'm like, I can see, as I just said, I've made more money and it's not loads. So please continue to go to my Patreon. do stuff. But like I've made more money on Twitch than I have recording music.

But that allows me to now record more music. But for getting people like you on there and other people who's I know their quality is going to be good and their content's going to be good and people want to learn from you, that's only beneficial to me. I don't think of it as

like because a lot of people would have the oh well that's another drummer on Twitch taking my subs. Well realistically, from a business point of view, that is you telling your, how many followers you got on Instagram? 158, 158 people about, I mean, you, 158 is pretty fucking precise. But like, that's you telling 158,000 people that here is a platform that has music on it. And, you know, if 1% of those people go, oh, I didn't know that, and then they go on and they'll come across me.

of course they'll come across me. Right, that's exactly right. When I used to own cafes, and one thing I noticed is that when a new cafe opens up in your area, it only grows your business. It's not a threat. It just brings up the whole community.

Yeah, the vibe. And I love that. And for that reason, I've tried to get other people on as well. But for that reason as well, I don't want to oversaturated with poor quality stuff. For sure, yeah. Well, I think, honestly,

Twitch seems like the platform where it only really accepts, by and large, some standard of quality. I mean, if you look at the way the gaming revolution happened on there, I mean, everyone's got beautiful cameras, everyone's got, like, great lighting. The standard is set, like, the bar's already set relatively high on a general basis. I just don't think you can go in on a fucking iPhone camera stream, you know.

And so with us, drummers coming in, it is harder because we need more gear, but the standard is going to stay relatively high if they want to do anything with it, you know? The one that I think about a lot, though, is like, and a lot of people, there's a lot of people doing it because it's the easier way to do it, but I kind of look at the numbers and the numbers don't match up that much is like electric drum kits. Yeah, I've seen a few guys doing that. But those channels seem more performance-based anyway. They're not really, it's really weird.

I've watched a few of them, and I'm friends with a couple of the guys now. And it's quite funny, they just, they log on, they chuck on, on some songs, like real, real out of it songs too, bro, like just real standard cover songs essentially. And they just basically play the next two or three hours away. But I can't do that and neither can you. No. So this is the thing.

I'm really going to let my audience tell me what they want, man. Like, this is where I see it worth giving my IP because I'm not going to leave my videos up on my page. I'm really going to say to my audience or anyone that wants to come on, I'm all yours, man, because this is a platform where we can do this together and then we can leave it here in the moment as well, you know? I'll share anything with you because it's about building a community, but then just leaving it in the moment.

Nice. Not residue. I don't want to leave like, you know, videos of, I mean, what's the point? Why would I do a lesson on my kick pedal and then just leave it there? Leave it there for some shithead who doesn't deserve to see it, who gets to see it and gets really good, but then continues to be a shithead. Fully agree. I suppose it's not.

Yeah, we'll go with your words. I mean, I get, like, I get that. I never went into why I don't like reacting, even though I do do it. Yeah, but you do it with an edge. I like it. Yeah, because no one was doing it. Because no one was saying, well, this drummer's cheating or this drummer's not as good as he's pretending to be or whatever. Like, no one was doing that.

So I was like, okay, there's a gap in the market there. I got annoyed and all the, all the, like, pro-pro drummers get annoyed with, the clickbait it's their video they put in the you know a lot of you probably watching you're the reaction guy though I'm not a lot of like you know people putting in their 10,000 hours

Benny Greb putting in his 10,000 hours to then do a video nicely shot whatever probably didn't get paid for it maybe it's on Zildren Live and and should matter owned by Vic Firth so probably shot myself in the foot there

but you know what I mean like didn't get paid for it and then someone watches it and goes and has a caption of them going and then the title you're not going to believe

this drummer and then it gets 10 times the views and 10 times the money because the video they were watching is live so it can't be like and it's like it is pretty bottom feeder

it's the shrimp on the bottom I get why people are annoyed by So that's why I went the complete opposite way. And I was like, okay, I'm going to make the click-back title so insane that if you clicked on it, then that's on you. Like, if I made the title, I think my first one was like, hardcore drummer gets pregnant from Eloy Casagrante. And then there was people leaving comments like, oh, man, that's clickbait. And I was like, I'm sorry, do you think this is, were you expecting the movie Jr? like I can't be become pregnant because I'm a man okay it's not clickbait if you click that

thinking it was going to be a video of a man getting impregnated by another man that's on you thanks for the ad revenue yeah and then that sort of became a thing but I kind of it's almost like you with with the foot thing I am now getting known for it and I kind of hate it and I hate that I do it just keep it interesting man that's all you can do i like just keep it interesting because the thing is you mentioned professional drummers before like not liking those videos i mean first of all what is the classification of a professional drummer anyway people are better than me bro you are a professional drummer so most drummers because the thing is is that i think what you're saying is the old

the old guard professional drummer oh now we've swapped now we've swapped now we've swapped good cop, bad cop, pro cop, pro cop, pro cop. Well, the only people that I see moaning about anything done online is the old guard. Well, but reaction video is a death note. Oh, they do get annoyed though, don't they? I've got kids, man, they love it. So is that just a lack of understanding, man? Like, is that just the old man in you coming out?

Because both of my kids love watching reaction videos. I think it's the most, I'm not actually, no, I'm not going to isolate that audience. Reaction videos are great. Yeah, because you're, right. It's too early on. right because then when you get on twitch and you're like i can't be bothered to play drums today and then someone goes you can make two hundred dollars if you watch other people playing the drums and you go i might do this every day actually yeah it's quite funny oh so don't you know don't slag them at my point

no i'm not going to slag it um each to their own it's just not something that i i've yeah it's just not for me oh you know what though there's still there's still an opening there's still an opening in the there's still nobody and but you're going to take a hit for it whoever does it, anyone that's watching at these 14,000 people. A critical and not, I don't mean like hilarious critical,

like someone I know. A critical drummer who is better than all the drummers that they react to and just providing unsolicited information. You would be hated. You would be hated, but that money, it'd be good.

Yeah, like, I mean, I suppose it's showing my age a little bit too, but if it came from a point of education where it's not just about a reaction, it's about dissecting, then that's kind of different, you know? They never do it. That was my...

No, that's right, they don't. That's why I was like, okay, I'm going to start doing these because there'll be people, the fake drummer stuff, the blast beats at 127 velocity, mad shit, it's obviously fake,

and all of the reaction videos that have like a million views, some of them, like, three million views, reacting to an obviously fake drummer, and it's like, oh my god i can't believe this it's like of course you can't believe it you're supposed to be a pro drummer you know that's fake why are you faking your reaction to get moan okay how about this bro how about

a reaction video or a series where it's based on like i would show a danny carry video and i'm stopping it and going okay so the reason why this part's read is because he's doing this and i actually show you what he's doing yeah i turn in change the cam are there any that do that uh sometimes about once a video I'll explain something that's happening, but I'll be on the drum kit. No, I'll go, that's a group of five. Well, that's something that I'd be down with. I mean, because the thing is. Oh, no one's doing that, Stan.

No, so I'd be happy to do that because I could break down John Theodore, Thomas Hark, fucking Danny Carey, like whoever really, you know. They call him Stan Big Wallet. That's cool, though, because no one, everyone's doing a reaction video just sat there watching it. including myself. But if you're going to be watching it right there, and if anyone doesn't know, if you're on the audio,

he's got a lovely, lovely room, but he's also got a multi-cam set up, camera switcher, foot cam, OVag cam, nice cam. Ah,

that's good, man. And then... I'd do that. I would actually personally be happy to lean into that. You know what part of me, though, is like, again,

like what you're saying, that's too good for YouTube. Like that's too, that. No, no, no, because it's not your material.

No, I mean, it, what, so you'd be happy giving those bits away? Because you would. People had a player John Theodore,

like, absolutely, because it's not mine. I'm just a vessel. You would blow up and, you might get some, you might, you might get a little bit of,

uh, hate from people that hate people stealing licks. Oh, bro, leaves hate. You can't please them all, buddy. It's like making coffee. Like, I spent the first five or ten years as a barista trying to make the perfect cup for everyone. And then I just realize some people just don't know what a good cup of coffee is, so I just do it my way. So you're always going to get your pushback. I thought you were talking about drum hate there. Have you

ever had any drum hate? Yeah, yeah, definitely, man. When you get to my sort of numbers, the percentage just, they speak for themselves, bro. I think it's just part of the course, too, like I've had amateur drummers come at me. I've had professional drummers, bro, guys that you and I both know. That's funny. Tell me more about that bit. Oh, well. Why don't you tell me more about that?

What happened there? I've never heard this story. Well, I've had multiple drummers come back to me, but... Give me an example. No names. Give me an example. Okay. Yeah.

I had a professional drummer, a self-proclaimed specialist of sorts, you know. Oh, fuck me. I said no names, but you are. pretty much. Carry on. Well, I've had people come at me where they were basically, like they just were fucking insulted and just hated what I was producing online when it came to my foot technique.

They despised it. Everything that it stood for, they thought that I was going to fucking cause, you know, the next. I had a guy come at me and basically he had a issue with the mechanics of what I was doing, he was sick of his students asking him to show them my technique wait wait wait wait wait right right that's the same person oh sure why not no but if that's the same person so what point point number one

was worried about the mechanics of what you were doing right which we'll get to in a minute because as far as I can see what you're doing is something that I'd really like to be able to do and it looks looks like you can't Craig I can teach you Matt Looks very easy when you do it. But then point two, getting annoyed, getting annoyed with their students showing them at it. Sounds a bit like a them problem. Something that he said was that he was annoyed that the students were coming in and asking for him to teach them my technique.

Because he sort of saw it as like a circus trick, not something that was something that could be taught. And so, yeah, he and I had to chat about it. you know, we got on a Zoom call, and we spoke for about an hour, to be honest. And some of the stuff I heard him on, I was sitting real high at the time, like really fucking high because I was really into gospel players and stuff, and they all sat really high. And so I actually have since lowered my throne. But when it came to the technique itself, his arguments against it just didn't really hold. I've taught this technique to fucking hundreds of people now, man, because it's not, it's not me special.

It's not unique to, if I can do it, you can do it. We're not, I'm not unique. I mean, I definitely want on how to do it. But what, hang on, before we get deep dive on this, without giving anything away, explain the technique without, like, just a layman's terms. So the way that I do it is I'm a heel-up player, and I play my doubles heel-up. And so I just kind of found this perpetual motion, which guys have done in the past, Steve Smith, John Blackwell, but they keep there, they basically treat it more like a rocking motion

for that perpetual thing. I'm a heavy slide player so I basically just incorporated slide with the principles of molar so you're basically doing a double so your knee only comes up once but you get two strokes out of it and then I just keep it going

so the difference between that technique to all the other single kick techniques that I'd seen up until that point and there's some great ones is that you either lose dynamics in the second stroke or ultimately you lose overall dynamics and I didn't lose any dynamics and the speeds that I was getting to was pretty insane too

I don't really push it anymore, man. I mean, I saw a video you playing like Mushugger with one foot. Yeah, well, that's actually one of the ways that I found it because I wanted to tighten up my single kick playing. I played double for years, man. I used to play through the first two Slitonaut albums when I was young. You know, obviously I was in a tall tribute band, so I used to you do a lot of Danny Carey stuff.

But then I wanted to train my single foot up, so I went total single pedal. And then I was using songs that were recorded on double pedal as a way for me to get better at single kick. So rational gaze by my sugar was one of them because the pattern's really insane. And I was... Yeah, that was the one that I saw, I think.

Yeah, I'd been doing that for years already, bro. Like, by the time you saw it, I'd already been doing that for maybe five... Oh no, probably about 10 years. Jesus. I just used it as an exercise. But then what came of that is because it really pushed my single kick

to a level that even I was quite surprised by, I tapped into this new thing where I could start to... in quads, sixes, you know, eights, a lot of the even numbers, and now I can do odd numbers as well. But the whole point is that there's no lack of dynamics, bro. You don't lose dynamics. So then, so loads of people are annoyed at you for doing this. Some people were, yeah, hard out. That's ridiculous. That's what goes back to what I'm saying about.

Like, that is a conceptual idea that's going to enhance playing for everyone. That's not giving away someone's leg. I kind of get them people are annoyed about that. This was my argument. This was actually my argument again to one of the people that came at me i said to him look man there was a time when the one-handed role wasn't a thing there was a time when fucking people couldn't play at 220 bpm there was a time when all these some some techniques didn't exist i felt like i was sort of tapping into a new way of um doing single kick and he was like no no and fuck whatever man like i mean i've made enough coffee for people that didn't like it to be thick-skinned enough to fucking where did the chat where did this chat happen

Like, is this Instagram DMs or what? What's the deal? Like, was it, was it apropos of nothing? Did he just literally just come out of blue? I'm going to, I'm going to summarize all of them and say that they came at me and my DMs. And then a couple of them went into Zoom calls and video calls.

Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're having an argument? No, I wasn't. They were. Who, oh, I just need to know who. I'm not going to have an argument with the guy. fucking hell. Like, I've got way more shit to do than argue with someone random on the other side of the world.

But they were not happy about it. I'll tell you that much. Who asked for the Zoom? They did. This is an ego problem. Yeah, it is massively. Asking you for a Zoom to tell you. Can I, is this one person or many people?

Can I like, let me just, let me just say, let me ask if one person did all of these things in a row and then I'm going to react to that. one person told you they think you're playing is my injure people and they're sick of their students asking how to play like that do you want to jump on a Zoom call so I can berate you about this that's one human being correct absolutely insane I realized that after the call what did you do was it like did they come in hot? Was it like an argument? No, I didn't, but they did. But they were saying a bunch of shit, man. They were sort of shooting their mouth off good and proper about a lot of things.

Man, like about my numbers. Oh, man, I could get those numbers too if I wanted. I just don't want to. I've got a girlfriend. She goes to a different school. Okay? That's what that sounds like to me. That's fucking, how did you leave it?

Well, after an hour. it was sort of like we met in the middle on a couple of things and then the rest we didn't and it just got to the point where it was like well i think that's kind of where we that's all we can do at this point and then he came at me a couple more times than the dms and so i ended up blocking him and then i got over it unblocked him and then he's blocked me since he said he was sick of his company's reposting my content all this sort of shit and look whatever man i don't give a fuck oh it's fine that's interesting because i like i i I've blocked a few other, like, pro drummers for pretty, for, like, pretty dumb shit.

And then I just keep them blocked because I'm stubborn. Like, there's this other guy on Twitch, Samus, he's called. And he's really, really amazing drummer. Like, unbelievably good. And he's massive on there. He's massive on YouTube. And I made a meme. And this is, like, this is a one thing where I'm like, okay, I,

overreacted it, but I'm too stubborn to unblocking. I made a meme, and it was like a pretty niche, it was before I had any kind of real internet following as well. A pretty niche musical meme about, you know how like guitarists call da da da, da, guitarists call that triplets, and it's not. That's not a triplet. Okay, so I made a meme that it was just a picture of a triplet

and a picture of one eand, and I was like, this is a fucking triplet, this is not a fucking triplet. Anyway, and I posted that, and I got followed by him, and then I realized he'd

just taken a photo of it, snapped it out, and then reposted it, and then it had like fucking 10,000 likes or something, and I was like, that's just a bit, and I just immediately blocked me. I was like,

this guy and then I blocked him and then that's a bit of a reactive pro and now I can't now I can't unblock him somebody's internet man I've definitely blocked people out of ego and shit as well because there's a lot going on in my world and you're navigating it whilst you're living

your normal life man I've got kids and business of wife like just normal shit and then someone comes at you and maybe they have the wrong tone and you're just like fuck this guy man I've missed read messages because you lose the emphasis because it's not an actual competition it's just text or you assume that every message that's written to you is written by someone that's highly

educated a fantastic fucking drummer and you know they've already been playing the kit for 20 years but by and large is generally just someone in their mom's basement you know when they're coming at you aggressively anyway yeah you should probably unblock him um your your internet or my internet is shitting right now and it's really annoying me um oh really it's one of the one of the problems with uh um um one of the problems with uh doing this kind of thing live. I might. Yeah.

Can you talk for a minute? Hello. I am talking. Yeah, I think it might be fixed. What I'll do. Anyway, I want to end, we're not going to end right now, I just want to clear up that little part.

So you left it like that, you blocked each other, I blocked a guy, I think I blocked someone else. The thing is with me as well, I flat out before, I block someone, I tell them why. There's only two that I can think of. There was him, and I went, oh, you fucking pussy. Stealing my fucking meme.

And it's like, is that me? That's a hundred percent of me problem. That's hilarious. Yeah, mental, mental. And I wish I could take you back, but I can't. And you bet your ass I'm not unblocking him. So, because I'm too stubborn. If I have an argument with someone, I would, I'll take it to my grave unless they

apologize first. And it is my, that is my weakness. It's my, what is it was? The ego is a sacred thing, man. Exactly. That was my roundabout point of saying that we all have these fucking ego things in there. Yeah. Which can be used for good, but it can get away on you at times.

I mean, confidence is arguably partially ego, and you need a bit of that if you're going to survive this world, you know? Oh, if I didn't have ego, we wouldn't be on Twitch. dot TV on the front page of 14,542 fucking people. It's definitely in there, but I'm trying to work. I'd like to think my blocking someone, over a meme is not me then trying to get a Zoom call with them to explain why what he did was problematic and I'm annoyed by people showing me that meme that I made.

Do I mean? Yeah, bro. And just to round that off, he was even fucked off. He came at me later down the track and was fucked off that I didn't take him up on some sort of mentorship as well. What did he offer it? Yeah. He wanted to like teach me for free and all this sort of stuff.

And I said, oh, cool, man. Thanks. and I just left it at that because I didn't want to be taught by him because I don't really I mean I only want to be I mean fuck I haven't had lessons for one but if I'm going to get lessons

it's going to be with someone who their style I resonate with you know I'm not going to go under someone's wing and I don't even really enjoy their style what and then they said why didn't you take the lesson well they pulled me up on it on a Facebook post where we started having an argument

because I made a comment on something that they wrote and then he came at me I was I set it up though I pitched him the ball I knew what I was doing. Love a bit of beef. My other one, I had a real recent,

real recent beef with someone. And again, it's me. It's a me problem. But at the same time, it's a me problem. And it seems petty. But if you took it out of the confines of the internet and you put it into real life,

like rudeness, it would be the sort of thing that you would have an argument about. I posted a video of someone playing the drums. And I, like, it was a story post and I wrote something quite like self-deprecating about myself and about them or whatever and I put it on my story and they screen recorded it the bit from the story instead of just resharing it like you would do screen recorded it cut out my tag and then reposted

it. Wow. and like on the face of it me being annoyed by that is a me problem but it's also so rude that I was like nah I'm not letting this slide so I messaged him and was like oh what's up with the screen record and then they were like oh I saved it and I was like can't save a fucking Instagram story

I was like fuck this guy and then I blocked him um but it's like there's definitely an element of the me problem in there but it's also like don't be rude. Yeah, like with this case in particular, I don't really give a fuck anymore. But at the time, I think where I was at, and in terms of the social media and stuff, it definitely fucked me

up for a bit. It was why I didn't accept drummio initially. Because this, these people, let's say this person come on. Well. Well, you didn't accept drummio. You did do drumio, though. I did do drummio, but I didn't do it for like a year. So Jared asked me, he'd sent me an email. And at the time, my situation was a combination between my friend was going through an issue his partner was really sick and he's a good friend of mine and I thought fuck if I take drummillo now I might not be as available is what I should be for this person but then at the same time I was having interactions with this person

and I was like oh fuck I don't really need this I don't need this sort of exposure and then it wasn't for about to be honest bro like six or eight months later I was going for a run I got to the 21st kilometer of this run and this shush, shush, shush, shush, shush. But my point is, is that the type of endorphins that hit me at that point, yeah, that's right. I hadn't actually experienced it before and this big fucking question hit me like,

why haven't I done drummio? I was like, fuck, why haven't I done it? And then I realized that I just sort of let it sort of get into my head a little bit and just sort of moved on. And so when I got back from the run, I let the issue get in my head and I just sort of let that dictate my decisions for a while and then I got back from the run

and I emailed Jared and said, oh we're still on and he said, yeah man and so I was there within four months with my family and did the whole thing. Remind me about the run stuff in a minute about the post-run clarity and stuff because we'll get into that. Oh, it's ridiculous.

So you did drumio. They must be paying. You don't have to tell me how much but just tell me they pay because those videos get a billion fucking views. Yeah, they pay. pay, yeah. Okay, good.

That's fine, because I wouldn't want, that would be annoying. The running, the post-run clarity. And the endorphins. The run is high, bro. It's a real thing. Was drumio good? Was that good?

Can people go and do it? Do you still get money from it if they go and pay for your course? No, I don't get money from it. I don't care. But it was amazing, bro. It was amazing. It always, do you know what? Their mixes are absolutely unbelievable.

Their drum mixes are like, Yeah, bro, you've got to remember too. Like, I'm on the bottom half of the world. So in the Southern Hemisphere, I'm the only drummer that's been invited to Drummeo. And so maybe there's a bit of, like, it just feels like that is such a fucking unicorn from coming from New Zealand. And so the whole thing was just so surreal, man. Like, I look back on the video when it pops up when people tag me in it. And I don't even really remember it doing it.

I watch it. And I'm like, what the fuck? Bro, I was jet lag. I was fasting. I was down to like 84 kilos. if you look, I'm real lean, because I wanted to make sure that I looked real sharp. Nice. I'm on a fast right now.

I'm getting lean as well. Oh, yeah, good on you. Love it. Yeah. What do you think about, if anyone doesn't know, basically, drumio is a online drum lesson thing, and it is pay-well. Do you have to pay to be a member, but there are three lessons and stuff on YouTube. That's just for anyone that doesn't know about drums,

because we've got quite a lot of listeners. that aren't even musicians. What do you think about the discourse that there is about people who beef drummio? There's quite a lot of drummio beef. What do you mean? As in like people who don't think, it comes back to like,

don't think everything should be taught and everything should be broken down. There's a lot of people that don't like drummio. Oh, yeah, no, I know that for sure. Yeah, I see what you mean. Oh, bro, like there's even elements of what drumio do that I don't like. But I still appreciate what they do,

ultimately for drumming as a whole because honestly man like you know to get real fucking um um macro on it or helicopter view the more people playing the drums the better that means more students more people that are going to like my content your content so you can have an individual issue with elements of drumio but by and large you can only see it as a positive thing for drumming as a whole yeah 100% um yeah more there are elements of the way they do what they do that i don't like at all but that's part of being in a machine that they're and where they have to produce content. Yeah, some of their stuff I see it

and I'm just like, oh, that is pretty cringe. But then it's like, again. But it's insane there. It's cutting, it's right at the forefront of what current marketing is. They're not missing people. Oh, they're not. But is that what you want to be remembered for?

Because I could, I mean, don't be wrong. They're killing it. If that was a personal person, though, like I wouldn't want to be remembered for putting a beard on and playing killing in the name. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, well, this is the thing, bro. This is him getting in a younger audience.

You need kids to start playing the drums. This is what you need to do. You need to employ a younger person. Yeah, well, no, but this is the thing. Kids see that and they love it. They love the beard thing. I'll tell you, here's an interesting thing, bro. My son plays the drums, right?

And he's a fantastic drummer. Like, he's a real good drummer. Of course he is. He's in the bullsack, baby. Come from your bullsack. He did come from my bullsack. Thanks, Craig. He's a fantastic drum.

drummer and basically I remember him like really taken by Casey Cooper's videos because the guy would put fire on his sticks and shit but then he was also asking me how to play tool and um like deaf tones and shit like that rage against machine but he really loved watching Casey Cooper play and that's just the age thing man like the like people slag off Casey and I'm like yeah but my son wants to get on the drum kit after he watches him now my son was like 11 or 12 at the time and I think it just kind of makes the point that sometimes it's all bad perspective. You're so annoyingly right.

That's what I'm annoyed about right now. Okay, good. Because I was going to defend it even more, but I'm glad that he's... I know. Please do, because I have been proven wrong there, and you're absolutely right. But... I don't think Casey's a great drummer, and I should, you know, like, and his content, I don't really enjoy either, but he got my son excited about the fucking drums, man.

When his own dad couldn't. With that foot, his own dad couldn't get his son... My son does get excited about drums. I'm excited about my playing. Fuck you. My son came to me at nine years old and asked me to show him how to play 46 and 2 on the guitar.

Oie, I saw a video of that Nancy, is it Nancy Bushall? Yeah, yeah. The little girl playing 46 and 2 the other day. What the fuck? Unbelievable. And shit like that, like stuff like that. That's an obvious reaction.

So here's to bring it back to the reaction stuff. That's an obvious reaction. that would get millions, about hundreds of thousands of views, I'm not going to do it, right? And stuff like that, I don't do because she's already getting those views anyway from people resharing it

because it's rightfully really, really good. For me to react to that doesn't really give her any exposure. It's me piggybacking off a six-year-old girl or whatever. So that's my... A bunch of people are going to do it anyway. Oh, they would have already done it. Yeah, exactly.

And it's all the same video. God, I can't believe it's a kid. I want to do one, right? But the problem is, I don't really want to do it, but I want to do one because you know, like, there's, like, videos of kids doing bleed, right?

And it's impressive. It's very impressive. I'm not going to seem a sugar with that kid playing drums, though. Like, I want to do a video where I just shit on this, like, six-year-old that's amazing at drums would be like, that bit was sloppy.

Like, it would be the funniest thing ever, but I don't, I need the kid to not actually exist. I need it. to be faked. We need to like get a kid. How old's your kid? I've got a nine-year-old and a 17-year-old. Right.

We'll loop the nine-year-old in with this. They'll do a cover that's obviously very good, but then I'll shit on it and we'll split the money. I don't want a part of this, bro. Don't write me into your shit. Is that child label? I've got a question for you. What's your position on drum covers?

I've never done my. in my entire life. But what's your position on them, though? On other people doing them or them in general? Yeah, isn't there much the same? Okay, so every drummer that I know who does mad drum covers is better at me, better than me at the drums, right? And they got that way from learning these covers.

I don't have, whatever it is in the brain, I think it's called an attention span I don't have whatever it is in the brain that makes you go oh I want to learn that inside out

I want to learn that whole drum song from start to finish completely perfectly that sounds like my idea of hell so for that reason I've never done it but when I see other people doing it I'm like cool

wish I could have that attention span I don't really have an opinion either way I don't think it's lowest hanging fruit because it takes a lot of skill to do. The majority of the time the actual artist gets paid for the views. That's right. What was your opinion?

Well, because the reason why I bring it up is because it kind of wrapped up in this whole new generation coming through. I see people fucking slagging off covers all the time. Even that guy that I was talking about, he hates people that do drum covers. But my argument's always been it's just purely because we've got the technology to show. I mean, when I was younger, bro, like I played every fucking cover under the sun to learn the drums. If I had had a 1080p camera with me, sure as hell I would have been posting them. You raise a good point.

I actually did used to learn songs, but I didn't have a camera. I used to jam along to Limpisket, Led Zeppelin, fucking Deftones tool, just to get better as a player and vicariously feel like you were living through the performance. If we had the technology to have a 1080p camera on us and share it with the world, of course we would have. Yeah, you got right. Yeah. I can't see an argument against drum covers.

I can't see. I don't have any issue with it. I can see impartial. I don't do them, but I don't have an issue with it. Yeah. But it's a decision because I don't want to have one style or one influence take over my psyche now. You know, that's all it really is. I think my thing, as well as the rotten attention span,

I think my thing was just like I was concentrating on what I wanted to do as a drummer and my things. But then there would be like a lick that I'd be like, okay, I need to learn that. And I would just learn the bits that interested me. And I think from all that stealing, I created my own sort of mish-mash and everything. Amalgamation. Which I guess everyone does. But I do know some cover drummers who are absolutely outrageously good

because they're essentially 10 different drummers. Yeah, that's right. It's interesting. That is. Tell me about this running. I was doing a 21K And then I had a fucking An apparition came to me at the end of it

Honestly, at those kilometres That's what it feels like Talk me through your daily Because you're saying that you used to just post drums And then I actually much prefer To see your like Day to day shit Because no offence

I mean you're good at drums But everyone's fucking good at drums I can see all the good drummers what I like a little insight into someone else's life I love it I watch YouTube bodybuilding like day in the live videos or that's all I do

like that's I don't watch TV I watch those so I like that stuff I like that world talk me for you I want to know like because you sometimes I see sometimes I wake up and I'm like he's just woke up that's not right from the time point of view

it's like 3 a.m. your time yeah I don't know man like well I had my son when I was not 19 years old and from that point onwards because I shared him with his mum, totally amicably but from that point onwards I would have him half the week and she would and I was just a real light sleeper from then on man

so I would wake up at the drop of a fucking pin That's me But then because having a kid You're required to actually get up early And look after a life form When they're young It just built in

The ability to operate on minimal sleep and then couple that with the stresses of running multiple businesses over the years and those initial years where you don't make any money and all of that. I just got really used to running on low and now I just I've got to this place where

because I actually ironically I think I'm an innately lazy person bro. I think that I'm generally a very lazy person but my personality type I have to keep pushing against that so I'm just in a constant state of not letting the laziness win and that's really where I come from with it I get up at five every day

sometimes a bit earlier. I set up systems that don't feel natural to me. I'm not a great reader or anything, but I read every day. I try and practice my pads on some capacity most days. I work out nearly every day in some capacity. I'm not a fucking ultra marathon runner or anything. I try and do a bit of everything every single day

that will sort of push me forward. Because the thing I noticed with the exercise specifically, apart from maintaining a healthy weight, because I've been real heavy as well. So there's a bit of that in that. I'm 91 kilos now, which I don't know. Are you familiar with kilos? Yeah, I'm a kilos.

I'm 75 right now. Okay, sweet. So I've been as low as 75 when I was running half marathons every Saturday. I was 75 kilos. I've also been up to 116 kilos. Oh! No shame. I'm going to share with you in the DMs.

No shame, but it's very different from what you are now. Yeah, what's that? 91. 26, 25 added. yeah so 40 40 pounds yeah so that and that was just overweight that was before I started exercising when I was younger and then I've been about a hundred of just sort of more I suppose muscle because I got into that for a while too damn rip no yeah but I just found it was I was real sluggish and felt

fucking awful and the amount of food you got to eat to maintain it so now after all the things that I've done bro and I've got real psycho about specific exercises like the running rowing, you know, just the 5 by 5 with just compound lifts. I bought a squat rack and just devoted two years to that shit. Now I'm just about general health. So for me, it's about bang for buck. So all I do every day now is about 30 minutes to an hour on the rower, 50 pull-ups and 50 push-ups.

That's it. What sets you're doing these pull-ups in? My first sets always, for the pull-ups always 12. And then the second set's always like six. It really depends on the rest time. but what I do is I do my pull-up, if I do 12 pull-ups, I do 12 push-ups straight away. So I match the push-ups to the push-ups.

Yeah, you have to, as you're going to fuck your shoulders up. Yeah. I had a guy. I've got a program off someone once, and there was like, they were like a paid program thing. And the first day of it was like 100 pull-ups

and 100 squats with 60 kilos. Oh, what the fuck. Yo. And I did it. And then I told him like the next day, and I was like, yeah, I'm absolutely fucking dead. And he was like, oh, I bet you are. That's just something that I send to see if people will do it. Like, to just make sure they've got the sands for the rest of the program.

And no one ever does it all. And I did it all. And I was like, honestly, like, I was completely fried. it was crazy but I got super ripped that sounds like German volumetric training it's those sort of

yeah it was like that 10 by 10 yeah I'll never forget the day after doing 100 pull-ups honestly it was my back that was the worst the legs were all right my legs are okay

but 100 pull-ups I've since done that a couple of times before because I know that I can do it now really good good way to like pack on some mass quickly so

I was going to say too sorry, caveat to the working out thing. It's the mental health aspect that I appreciate more now. That's all it is, bro. It just makes me feel good. You were talking to the right guy because my mental health is absolutely in the toilet

at all times. I don't know. I don't believe that. I think you're probably a bit hard on yourself there, Craig. Do you know I didn't want to do this today? Why? Because I had a bad day with my head. And I was like, I just want to fucking burn everything to the ground. I've got a live podcast on Friday.

I was like, I'm going to fucking cancel it. Fuck this. Behind the camera, as in like, when this camera's not on, psychopath. Absolute insanity. You just sound like someone who's busy and hustling. It's just the path of the course when you've got more than one thing going on, bro. You want to have downtime, but you can't, all that sort of shit.

My thing is, right, what came out of just before the, just before the whole divorce shit, like I had a real bout of insomnia, which was to do with the things that preceded the actual divorce. And ever since then, like, that's my trigger. Like, if I don't sleep well, like, last night my neighbours were stomping around at 2am and the choices were either go up there and hack their heads off with a hacksaw, which ran through my head, or just deal with it, and then I ended up getting up super early.

I ended up, you know, like, it just triggers me. It just like takes me back to the horrible time, the horrible place, and I just let it ruin my whole fucking day. But to bring that back round, then I went to the gym today, and it's the same thing afterwards. You're like, wow, I was a psychopath an hour and a half ago. Lack of sleep or fucking, like I've had my moments. I remember the first two months of my espresso,

but I felt like I did not sleep at all. And I actually got a little bit. There was a bit of psychosis forming. Was that from too much coffee not sleeping or just stress? I got into this habit of falling asleep at about 11 and waking up wide awake at 11.30 and just being like, oh, fuck. That became my thing. And it was like, oh, I guess this is happening again. Oh, it's fucked.

In fact, to the point where it's now, I don't want to talk about it because I'm like, I'm worrying about this tonight. During lockdown, I dealt with it in some ways that there was potential chances for me not to be waking. up. So I've since got rid of those. It's definitely much more healthier, but the worst thing is if it happens prior to doing stuff, like this week I've got a real busy week.

And then some other motherfucker is keeping me awake. It puts the mental health in the toilet. Anyway, I overshadowed your shit there. No, no, no, no. There's two things that will fuck me up, lack of food or lack of sleep. Now, I fast heaps, like, but that's when I've decided to.

If I want food and something's getting in the way of that, or I haven't slept for a few days properly, that's when the psychosis will kick in, which I think is just normal human shit, you know? I'm, I was on like a cut before I broke my back, and then I broke my back, and my initial thought was, oh, no, and this is such vanity. My initial thought was not, oh, no, am I going to play the drums well again?

Oh, no, am I going to be able to go to the gym again? I was like, I was doing so well getting these abs. and now I can't do anything. So that's when I actually started fasting because I was like otherwise. Because I'd actually heard about like the bone growth and the general, like the fasting state being good for recovery as well as, you know, as long as you're eating enough in the window outside of it.

So I started it then and I love it. I'll go to the gym and train heavy weights with no food and I'll come back around two and then I eat about two until just whenever really but it always ends up like I go to bed with a full tummy and I don't have a tummy ache

and I go to bed and it's lovely so the reason why because I've done it for a few years now there's two parts of it obviously it's just calorie suppression that's all it is in terms of the actual numbers but if you're not eating for the bulk of the day or like a good chunk of it

the engine isn't having to fucking burn the cold you know It takes a lot of energy to actually burn food. And so you recover faster because your system's got more reserves to actually do its work. It's not trying to reserve or put that energy into just getting food through your body. I'm so glad that you don't adhere to the like, this is why we get on. Like people that are like, oh, I did keto and I lost this much, blah, blah, blah. Oh, I did fasting and I lost this much.

At the end of the day, you created a restriction on your calories throughout either way. Other than like the water stuff with keto or whatever. but all it is is the calorie restriction is whether or not you can get on board with that. Totally. Fasting is the only way I can do it. Otherwise, I am... Like what you said,

if I know that I'm making myself hungry until this time, I'm absolutely fine. If I'm hungry because someone else is late for breakfast, there will be an armada. I will be very, very angry. Such a bad human. Wait, I asked someone to get some questions, Simon. Got any good questions for Stan the Man Bicknell?

Oh, I also got to ask you the top five bands as well, which I forgot to prep you for. Oh, shit. I'm sure we did it last time. Give me, are you got a number one? Oh, bro. While we're waiting for some questions? Nah, not really a number one. I mean, my sugar will be up there for me.

early Dillinger Wait, where's your cut off with Dillinger? Basically when Chris left You don't like the album with Billy? No, the one in between. Who did that? Ayer Works was

I only like Dillard with Chris. Gil Sharon. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Because the thing is, is that, you know, to deviate a little bit, it's the same reason why I like Mitch Mitchell and Jimmy Hendrix and like when jazz guys come into a heavy context it's just something else and Chris is a jazz player

essentially in a fucking heavy metal band he changed the game yeah and bro I still listen to those albums like calculating infinity do you not feel like you're maybe just maybe all being a bit of an old man here as well though not listening to the ones no I've listened to all the Billy stuff and he's a great drummer but it's not Dillinger well about I it works though the one with Gil Sharon is fucking sick it's not Chris though bro

it's featuring Gil I want you to give eye works another guy I suppose like to put it in simple terms as well and not that I'm a massive listener of Slipknot or anything but I wouldn't listen to anything after Joey

because Joey wrote a lot of the songs and Chris was a big contributor to the song writing that's why the drums are so detailed you know but yeah okay give me an Give me another band.

Hang on, while we're on the Dillinger one. Okay, what's your favourite Deninger album then? I mean, you've only got two to fucking pick from now. Well, calculating infinity. But I do like Hollywood Squares with Mike Patton. The EP they did with Mike Patton. Yeah. To be honest, that's one of my favorites, actually,

because I like they did an Apex Twin cover. I've come to Daddy. This is why I'm like, IWorks has some Apex Twinny stuff on it. It's not Chris, though. It doesn't matter if it's not Chris. Like, the music. Oh, please.

You think that, like, Bro, come on, man. Yeah, I know, but Ben took what Chris took, what Chris invented pretty much, and then he started writing songs like that. That's why it's still like that. You can still get some joy out of there. I feel like you're being a bit stubborn.

Sure. Yeah, you know you are. I'm not. I just don't like that. I only like it with Chris, man. Because to be honest, I don't listen to a lot of that music anyway, so all elements have to be right.

Like, Meshuggah is one of my favorite bands in the world, but I don't listen to fucking anything anywhere near. as heavy as that anywhere else. But, Meshuggah, all the elements work for me. I think the vocalist is one of the greatest vocalists in that genre. Frederick Solos, he sounds like a fucking beehives, just exploded.

You know, like, do you know what I mean? All right. Check your phone. Oh, interesting. Yeah, interesting, isn't it? That's not for anyone. That's not for anyone. So, okay, give me some more,

and then I'm going to read the chat. early Volta so I'm a massive John Theodore nut but it has to be early Volta to be honest it's really just all of his drum parts the first three albums but the first album essentially is where it is for me it starts and stops with Rick Rubin's album Is that the first one? Rick Rubin? Yeah yeah that album fucking rules

which the Volta have disowned that Omar and Cedric have actually disowned that because Rick had such an influence on the structure of the songs but that's why that album went so well because a sensible mind came in yeah exactly right including me and including you. Yeah, howdy.

Isn't it funny, though? I don't think there's ever been a more underpaid group of people to have such huge egos. I get, I get like film. Artists. Yeah, I know, but like film stars. You're getting all the money, you've got an ego. Fair enough.

And we're like, maybe we've got more ego because we don't get paid. So it's like, okay, well, at least I can get paid in stubborn. Yeah, totally. Yeah. What about the Pridgin album? Nah, so I've actually had to talk with Thomas about this. Why, did you ask him for a zoom in and tell him you think his album was shit?

No, I've told him, like, to his face that I think that it's one of the greatest drum performances on a single album. The first one. He did two albums. The Bad Lamingle Life is one I'm thinking of. But I'm not a fan of Pridgin in the band, though. But, right, this is showing my, like, ego or whatever, because I came from John Theodore, like, to me, John Theodore was just the perfect sound for that band. They sound like a different band on the Pridgin albums. Who does John Theodore play for now?

Queens of the Stone Age. Nice. But yeah, great gig for him because he needed to be played somewhere like that. But he did Sons of Zion with Zach Dallorosha for a while as well. Someone in the... Oh, no, sorry, not Sons of Zion, what they called? I don't know. Fuck, I can't remember.

That's a Kiwi band. Speaking of the Kiwi band, someone said, are we ever going to get another New Caledonia record? Yeah, we are. Is that your band? Yeah, it's my, I suppose, my instrumental prog band that I've done. Who else is in that? I've got four or three other friends.

It's a four piece, but there's an album on Spotify. We recorded it when I was younger. And I performed one of the songs on Drummio. I've recorded a couple of videos. on my YouTube channel of pay-throughs of those songs. That's really pulling from my Danny Carey, Carter Beauford, fucking John Theodore World. And, yeah, we are working on another album.

But the problem is, is that these guys take fucking ages to write stuff. And I'm just not, I just want to create and move on. How long ago was this album? Oh, bro, like 2008. Good, good year for music from that side of the world, though. That was a long time ago. I'm going to read some more questions. There's not really any.

I'm sure there was some throughout, but I missed them because there were so many people. One Day as a Lion was the name of that band. Yeah, Sonsa's Iron as a fucking Reggae Bean to you. Jesus. One Day as a Lion, is that the one with Zach from Rage in it? Yeah. Oh, that band's fucking cool.

I didn't know he played the drums. Yeah, yeah, just him and Zach. Wow. I wonder why the drums were good. That's what he did right after the Volta. That record fucking rules. I think that's about it, mate. We covered a few things. I think, are you planning, when you planning on starting to do a Twitch?

Well, kind of, like nowish, really. You're going to have to set a time, bro. You don't have to set the time right now, but just let everyone know. Well, probably be next week, I'd say. I've got a few gigs coming up and some sessions and stuff so I'm just kind of spreading myself a little bit thin at the moment

but to just come in here and go live and just sort of talk to the people and see where it goes I can pretty much do that from next week someone in the chat said top five drummers I'll take that from you and then we'll end it on that

all right Thomas Hark John Theodore It's going to be the same bands isn't it Chris Penny Yeah Chris Penny's up there I was massively influenced by Carter, both of it in the early days. Dave Matthew's band.

Yeah. But I'm not massive on the band anymore. It's toilet water music, isn't it? But the drumming is incredible. Yeah, I used him to basically try and, like, that's where I got my hi-hit stuff from. I really used him as a business. The VHS.

Undertaker and drumming, yeah. I was like, wait, he's playing backwards, but forward. Like, open-handed. I was like, what? What's going on? yeah yeah um and then fuck a bit on the spot with that one uh oh you're only got give me one more i don't know um i honestly don't know there's too many i don't put many like in a single like i mean i suppose danny for his early stuff oh sorry danny from when i was younger because he influenced

me real danny who danny carrie yeah i knew he meant i just wanted to be put down um yeah but hang on what mean for Zerli stuff? Are you saying that you don't understand? No, I meant from when I was young. I've got that wrong. Okay. Because if the guys that influenced me the most, who I hear in my playing now is Carter, Thomas, Hark, John Theodore, Danny Carey, yeah, a little bit of Chris Penny in there as well. A little bit of, yeah, guys like that, really.

And then some of the gospel players, too, but not all of them. Oh. Well, I could have guessed that number. I could have guessed all of those drummers. Nothing interesting there, guys. Shows over. With all, like, jokes aside, this was lovely. I feel like I could chat with you all the time.

You've got your own podcast. Do some plugs. You got your own podcast. Yeah, I just dropped my first podcast yesterday. It's called Pocket and Chops, and it's with my good friend, Stevie, who he and I used to both play for Kimbra at separate times. I don't know if you know of Kimbra.

Pocket and chops. Sorry. I blacked out. You could have said anything after that. All I was thinking of is pocket and chops, and I was just waiting for a gap to put it in. But episode one dropped yesterday in all the major platforms. It's just going to be a weekly thing.

Bro, it's pretty funny. We've got about six episodes banked, and one of them we actually broke down. We went through Tolls, Opied album, like dissected it. And then we also went through our top spice girls songs. Nice. That was a fun episode. But that's not going to be for a little bit.

Wait, you're banking episodes. Is that what people do? Well, we just got ahead of the game, that's all. Just because just life and shit. You know how I do my episodes? I go, oh shit. I haven't done an episode this month. Yeah, we will get there.

Don't worry. Yeah, the problem is that trying to get the... If I had a co-host, it would be easier. I don't have a co-host, so I'm relying on other people's equipment. I've actually, thanks to nice people at El Gato, over there, I've actually prepared a rig that I'm going to actually just send to people and be like,

here's all the things and all the instructions, put all that in when we'll do an episode. And if you don't do that, send it and like have to send it back. Anyway, yeah. What else you plug in? You got anything?

No, I'm just, you know, sessions and stuff. And then also I just want to say thanks to my company. So, SE, I have to borrow. You can thank them because that microphone's theirs. Yeah, well, all of the microframes are theirs. Yeah, they're fine. The nano leaf lights, they looked after me. My mockmaster, I already mentioned them.

The guys that I work with have been really fucking awesome. Whose fucking podcast is this? Where's my, nano? I need, I got a gap. There. I need one of those. Where else you got for me? Where else you got that I haven't got?

Go on, reel them all off. All birds? I'm a Jordan's guy, but carry on. Ah, true. Yeah, well, they're the main ones that you can see, and then my drum companies in general. Winston sticks, you know, Yamaha, Agop symbols, Remo heads.

I've been with them for a while now and they're rad. It's all fucking dog shit though, isn't it really? Minal, Vic Firth, Tammer, Evans. Nah, I'm right. They all, come on. But I'm using DW pedals at the moment. What, 9,000s? The 9,000 XF, so the longer footballer.

Yeah, for that big old dick foot that you got. I used to have 9,000s and I love them. I think what I was just about to say, there when I slag off your companies and you slag off my own. Every company, for the most part, makes something that everyone wants to use. They're all good. It all just comes down to personal

preference and then also like back scratching. Yeah, it's the beauty of personal choice, man. The free market, you call it. Now, we've started on communism and now we're ending on capitalism. Right.

That's it. We've been on capitalism this whole time. No, but I've done. disguised it as communism. Right. What we're going to do now, I'm going to say bye to you, but everyone that's in the Twitch chat, these guys as well.

We're going to go, don't fucking plug a coffee company. The only coffee company that gives me free coffee is Dark Hearts Coffee, okay, so that's the one you should be getting everyone. And my one is Black Vise Coffee. Bye. I'm going, everyone in the Twitch chat, stick with me because we're going to go, we're going to raid Minnie Fairhurst,

who is a drummer and she's really good and she'll share herself with 5,000 people come and raid her. So please stick around to at least get the pop off from that. Stan, I love you. I'll see you later. We'll debrief. We will. Nice to talk, bro.

Take it easy. You too. Take care, mate.