The Downbeat - THE BLACK DAHLIA MURDER | TAKING ON VOCALS + THE EARLY DAYS w/ BRIAN + ALAN

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

My guests on the podcast this week are Brian Eschbach and Alan Cassidy of The Black Dahlia Murder. After the tragic death of vocalist Trevor Strnad, Brian took over on the mic and Alan remained very good at the drums. We talk about the giant leap from guitarist to vocalist, as well as Alan’s office chair, the devil's lettuce and the early days of the band and more…

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Hey guys, welcome back to the Downbeat podcast. My guests on the podcast this week are Alan and Brian of the Black Dalian murder. We had a lot to talk about. Brian has recently taken over the reins on vocals after Trevor tragically died. RIP, Trevor, one of the goats of all time. We obviously talk about how hard it was to transition from guitar to vocals. I'll be honest with you. If you're here for grief tourism, there were a couple of questions about it.

but it was too sad and too personal to answer. So just scroll away if you're looking for that sort of stuff. That's not what we do here. We obviously did get into it, but if you want like some sort of TMZ weird little details that's parasocial, you ain't going to get it. Before we get started, if you like what I do and you want to sling us some money,

we've got a Patreon on patreon. Patreon.com, 4 slash the downbeat on it. You can get early access to episodes, early access to merch, add free episodes, all that good stuff. The lowest tier is one pound, the main tier is three pounds, dollars. I don't even know anymore. Just go check it out. Patreon.com for slash the downbeat.

If you don't want to do that but you still want to look good, you could go to www. the downbede.8 and you could pick yourself up a nice t-shirt, a nice hoodie, a nice pair of shorts, basically anything except underwear, underwear pending, www.the-downbete.combe.combe. Everyone tells me it's better than every band's merch. Go and check it out. And as ever, this episode of the podcast has brought you by those wonderful people, a neural DSP. Now, I have recently installed a bunch of neural DSP plugins. If you don't know, they make guitar-based plugins for your computer. All you have to do, and I know this because I got myself a MIDI guitar, is just put it on.

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Hi. Welcome. Thanks for having us. I really appreciate it. We tried to get this done the time before. Something fucked up with my cameras. It happened again today, but I went home and I fixed it. was freaking out about it.

Ouch. Have you ever lost any full episodes before? Cannibal corpse. Oof. I was so stoked. I did the whole episode and I was like, this is the best thing ever. Like, talking about Ace Ventura, talking about 90s death metal, Florida. I fucking loved it.

Turned around at the end. All the cameras died, not one, all of them. Yikes. Paid an animator to animate it instead. And people still complain. That's a good way to salvage it. Cost me a fucking grand. Someone's always going to complain.

Oh, big fucking time. Alan, how's that chair for you? It's pretty good. I couldn't fit my throne or, you know, chair, my computer chair in the Uber, so I had to leave it at the venue. Do we have beef about this? Was it a fake beef? Oh, it's totally fake beef. I just, I think it's hilarious because, you know, like, so many people lost their minds about the computer chair thing.

Like, I was just posting videos for a while where I, I was sitting in a computer chair and I was playing on my electronic kit. And it wasn't for any particular reason. It wasn't to try and be like, oh, that's going to get engagement because that's weird looking or whatever. It was just, I was able to, you know, turn over to my laptop and do some computer stuff or like, you know, programming or whatever and then turn around and like play out the beat and then go back to editing.

But you don't do it live. In time since, I think, like, it got brought up. our videographer, part-time videographer, Robbie, he was like, let's get you on a weird chair playing something, like in the middle of the shows. We like swapped out my throne at one point and had like a just real, you know, average, like, chair that you would have in like most venues or places or whatever

and, like, sat there and played measm in it. And, but like, yeah, I mean, it just, it was never like intentional, you know, to start anything with the internet in terms of like, oh, look what you could do. It wasn't a viral. I want to be viral. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It just was convenient. I mean, it's one more thing to load in, though, two more chairs. Brian. Yeah. Not playing guitar. Yeah. How do you feel about that in terms of gear? It's very weird.

Like, you've got no gear now. A very small amount of gear, you know, like my in-ear monitors or a microphone, taking care of the guitar, you know, changing the guitar, you know, changing strings, all the maintenance stuff. It takes up a good chunk of the day. Do you do that singer thing now where you just don't help anyone else ever, anytime? Loading, I'm conveniently in the wrong place

all the time. I try to help out when I can. I try to know when I don't know what's going on and just kind of stay out of the way. Do you ever pick it up for a song? Do three guitars for a song? I think we were messing around And like with some part of I will return, like the outro, some tours back. But I never really like put together a setup for it, you know, like a rig.

And it's just like not even really like a long period of time. So it's like, I carry this guitar around. Did you attempt, okay, I'm going to do guitar and vocals at the same time? No, not at all. Just because like, you know, I'm not all that. Bullshit. Any backup part over the years where, you know, what happened or had to happen vocally was kind of like counter rhythmic to what was going on with the hands and fingers. Yeah.

It was hard, you know, like getting my brain or my mouth and my hands, you know, do like different things. I knew that was like, that's not something that I could, you know, pull off. Yeah, just knew straight away. Yeah. We actually met before and I didn't want to do the things like, oh, you don't remember me? because it was like 2006. We did, my old band did a very short, I think maybe a three-day weekender

with Black Darling murder. It was pre-U. It would have been on Nocturnal or just before. Silosis was on it? Silosis Viatrophy was my old death metal man. We definitely played, Silas definitely played or came to the shows, but it was Black Dalai Murder,

the ocean? And I want to say from a second story window or something. Wow. Sounds very 2006. Truly 2006. But Josh, they used to have a vocalist. Yeah, Jamie. Jamie.

And then he just, like, I think he dumbed down some of his parts, but I remember the process of him learning that. He was like, I don't think I want to do this, but. It's just a bunch of. I don't have another vocalist. So I have to do it. Oh, no way. You think you could do that? I've never attempted it, but dear God, when you're, like, you know, keeping track of four limbs and then you got to, like, talk on.

On top of it, it seems pretty played a little bit like when I was younger, but man, I haven't been serious about it in decades. And you play drums? No, no. I can very poorly, you know, rock out to some loud ACDC. But that's about as far as it goes. 20 Cox can do it. You can do it. He'll sit on the electronic kit sometimes.

I'll bring my V drums. I need like, my legs are just stupid long for your kit. So it's like, I need like, I need. Because he sits like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need two fucking phone books. I don't know if the listeners or watchers know what those are, but I need about this much more height.

And then I'll show you some shit, some feet you've never heard before. Wait, they know what a phone book is. I'm old. I'm old. They're old. This is good. My transition and, you know, my mid-40s is going real weird because I don't know what people know about anymore.

So please, I apologize. No, I'm exactly the same. There's a weird generation skip. When you're writing a song, do you, who programs the parts? I assume you're a band that, you know, write it in a door first. Is that,

is that a Brian thing? Are you hitting the programming? Are you hitting the programming? For the drums, like, it's him. It's actually the guitar players in general, whoever wrote it. So you can play,

you can play the drums, but with your mind. I, I can do a lot of clicking. I know there's, like, there's technology in there in my computer where you could probably, like drag out a bunch of beats and you know and just be like all right cool we got eight bars of that

all right no i'm i'm gonna be clicking every single hit in there yeah so i don't know it's so wait how does black dali write a song if it comes from me it's usually like i'm sitting around with a guitar watching tv not really paying attention to anything and then in the messing around i'll be like oh that's kind of cool and just start you know messing around with that riff until it becomes something I really like. Usually once there's like two solid like parts, I can start flying with it. Were you put it into a computer and then send it to the other guys? Sometimes I'll show everyone like the two riffs or three riffs.

Sometimes it's waiting until the whole song's kind of done. Yeah. But at that point, he starts, you know, he starts programming like the real shit because I just play it. I put down meat and potato. That's what I'm getting at. This is what I want to know. It comes from you, meat and potatoes, blast beet, like... Skeleton.

Just... Blast beat, sometimes I'll be, like, feeling a fill. But I'm like, oh, it's got to do this. All right, click, click, click, click. But a lot of times I try to keep it just basic so that he can, you know, put his spin on it. And then it goes to you. You'll program your stuff. Yeah, depending on, like, if there's a lot of inspiration for stuff,

I'll throw in all the ideas that I'm thinking of and try and refine. it as best as possible and everything. And if it's not, it's just kind of easier for me because it's like I will just leave most of it intact and just kind of like write some fills that would be easier for me to like do just not second guessing myself on like some other fill that I didn't think of or whatever. And yeah, so it's sometimes it's a quick process to get through a song because of that. And then other times it's like, oh, no, I just had so many ideas that like took me forever to you know, figure it all out and polish it up and everything.

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Visit Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. We have no idea. I think it's not so much like budding heads as it is like there was a time where I had to go over to Brian's house because I had like adjusted a part that he had written. and like there was one kick out of place. And he was like, I need this kick right here. And I was like, okay.

And then I edited it and he was like, no, that's not the right spot. And then I was like, okay, hold on. And then I moved it back. And then he was like, no, it's still not the right spot. I'd literally drive to his house and like show him the program be like, you put the kick where it's supposed to go. That's such a guitarist thing. They love their kick drums in the right spot.

I can be very, very, very. solidified on an idea a lot of times before I share it with people. It doesn't really happen too much these days. No, yeah. In the first years of working together, there'd be, I guess it was budding heads, or, you know, playing a little tug of war. But there's definitely been, like, there's been some beats over the years where you changed my mind on something.

And I was like, yeah, that's a sick idea. That's what we should do. Does he ever come up with something that you wouldn't have done? And you're like, actually, that's fucking sick. Everybody has kind of done that at one point or another. But yeah, there's a lot of stuff that he'll send me and I'll be like, oh, that's sick. Like, absolutely would have never thought to do that. Other than like when there's three crashes, guitarists love to program three crashes.

How do you want me to do that, bro? How do you want me to do it? In my early days of programming, I was definitely guilty of that. You got to kind of like remember like, oh, yeah, count the limbs. This is a human being here. Yeah. It's still fun to fuck around with Tom's to punch out some parts, you know. I mean, he's a fucking machine anyway.

Brian, are you, I mean, my sources tell me you're re-watching the Sopranos right now. Yeah, it probably comes up, like, I don't know. I have like a small handful of TV shows that I just know. So it's like, I'll put them on. It's more of a comfort thing. Yeah. Like, I'll be doing other stuff, but I always got some TV playing. And it's probably like an 18-month rotation.

But, yeah. Supranos every 18 months? That's fucking awesome. It's very geeky. Sopranos is the thing that we watch in the van, in my old band. We watch it all the time. And it would be, we'd have, you always are probably the same. We'd have Breaking Bad.

We'd have Sopranos. I think we did better call Saul and then some other dumb shit. But I have never watched the last episode. Really? It started as a bit where I was like, I don't want this to end. I don't want this to end. So I never watched the last episode. And then the bit extended to me being like, no, if I just don't watch the last

episode. I don't have, it doesn't have to end. Did you watch the movie? No, I haven't seen the movie. Oh, man. Because I know it's going to ruin the last episode. Oh, no, the movie's pre- pre-is-it, it's. Yeah, it's like a prequel. Is it good? It's more about Dickie Maltesanti, uh, Christopher's father. Is it worth watch? As a no. As a fan, sometimes you just always want more. And, uh, that was the situation. I was like, yeah, tell, all right, give us more of the story. And a bunch of it's like stuff you've heard throughout the course of the show. They're just like showing it happening now.

But it's all right. No, I'm not watching it. I'm not watching the last episode. I'm not watching that. Stay true, man. What else is on the rotation, on your TV show rotation? The AMC ones you mentioned. Breaking bad. Better call us all.

It sounded like you were contractually obliged not to say breaking bad. You know the AMC ones. There's a lawsuit. I'm not supposed to say it. Madman, just a Mad Men's one I haven't done. I really like the Mad Men memes. What's his name? Don Draper.

That's the guy. Love the memes. Never seen the show. Where are you putting better course or compared to Breaking Bad? It's arguably a better show. What do you think about that movie? Kind of watch it like three times when it came out. That means you enjoyed it.

It's weird when the form of how a story is told and, you know, you know, these characters gets changed from like the in and out of, you know, 42, 43 minutes of, you know, really covering the point of a story. Yeah. So that was kind of like weird for me at first, but... I liked it. It's very satisfying. Yeah. Little bit of a cameo.

I think we all wanted that end. Would you take another series, though? I don't know how they can fit it in, but yeah, sure. Yeah, I do. Actually, where the fuck would it go? Some sort of alternate you immersed. Then we're really playing with people's ages. True.

Oh, my God. I don't want to talk about movies the whole time, but did you watch the Irish mode? You know, I did see it once and I really don't remember it. It was like they aged Robert De Niro to like 30 something. And there's the scene where he's like kicking the fuck out of this guy. But it's like, this is an 80. You can see they've aged his face to 35, but that's how an 8 year old man kicks the fuck out of the guy. It's like properly like, I do my own stunts.

Yeah, really fucking bad. Cartoon character got me into smoking. So that was really cool. It looks fucking cool They have not done a good job Getting rid of it Cowboy Bebop When I was like

You know It's the second fucking mention of Cowboy Bebop In the last hour and 15 minutes Really? So weird Carry on though I think it's also like a You know

Stimulation thing It's just like it's just something to do Two years ago I was bored on tour And then someone was hitting a vape But I was like I'm fucking bored Let me hit that

And then I hit it was like Oh that's like a little Just scratch my brain for a second And it's like, that's something to do. And then now, here I am vaping. Oh, great. So it only took the one hit. And you were just back on the way.

Just one hit, guys. That's all it takes. I've been known to be seen with a cigarette. Cool guy. That's cool. I had this kind of arson problem as a child. And so the cigarettes kind of keep it. Keep it with a bad.

The problem under control. It's kind of socially acceptable. So you keep when he's lying it? You don't know what it feels like to me. You can't really. a small group of us that talk on the internet. It's like exposure therapy. I'm not going to burn down the post office today because I had a lucky strike.

You still don't as much as I grow these days. But, oh shit, we're breaking the post. I'm seven podcasts this week. Oh, man. Well, I'm honored. Not as much as you grow. When we're not on tour, I work at a grow facility in Michigan. And I'm on a team of like,

six guys and we cut down probably i would say around anywhere from 93 to 100 and 20 pounds a week depending on the side of the room you're smoking less now i smoke i smoke less weed than uh the youngsters do really even being around it that much because you forgive me for only seeing the i mean i still i smoke weed every day but uh we eat i i Hell yeah. And there's a lot of young people in the industry, and I cannot keep up with these guys. Yeah, they're smoking the chronic.

Blunts. We got one over there. Look at her fucking cheese and high as fuck, by the way. I would not be able to function if I was just rolling blunts or multiple blunts a day in no way. Can you smoke the like strains that are around now, though? Because I just can't do that.

I had to quit smoking because I was like, this is like smoking crack. I love that because it's like you can have like, you know, four puffs and feeling great. Yeah. It doesn't become this whole prolonged ritual thing. Yeah. But you can do that if you want.

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Michigan isn't that where everyone from here drives to... Everyone drives from Nashville. Next door we have a THCA dispensary. But you can't sell THC, so everyone, not me, drives to Michigan. Is it Michigan? From Ohio. Ohio just, or more recently joined the game, right? Yeah, and then they just recently did one more now.

It's illegal to move it from Michigan to Ohio. It's illegal. Yeah. Yeah, we can't, like any product that we grow has to be sold. in the state of Michigan. Did they teach you all this yet or did you know how to do it? I made a good friend when I was working at the dispensary, this dude Eric that plays in play years.

And, you know, we hit it off. And he had actually been at grow facilities for about 10 years before he ended up at that dispensary. And then these guys that owned a dispensary opened a, you know, they sold the dispensary so they could fund their grow operation. And they put him in charge. And he was like, you want a job here? And I was like, man, I don't know anything about growing weed. Are you sure?

He's like, I know about you. I'll teach you everything. I know you like weed. Come on. He knows I'm going to show up. And, you know, if something's my job, I'm going to make sure it gets done. It's been really cool. I've been growing with him in that team for about two years now.

And it was like going to college. Yeah. But for wheat. And with hands-on experience, you know, the entire time. Have you done like a black dahlia? strain or anything? We've been wanting to. The company's still new and we want, I want to, you know, make sure that whatever strain that we want to hop on or put our name on is been as developed as we can. Have you got a specific, like, what you needed to be in mind?

No, I mean, there's just some funny ideas out there, but like, want it to be, you know, some quality, um, um, product that, you know, we've done the pheno hunt on and it's, it's a I mean. A lot of the plants that we are growing came from seed. And you get your seeds from a breeder. And it'll be like a pack of like, you know, 10 different seeds or whatever. And they tell you what the two source plants are. You can grow all those.

And those can all be completely different outcomes, whether it be, you know, their terp or... From the same bag of seeds that can be. Yeah. Yeah. Each one of those can be a completely different plant. So you could be doing runs, grow them and see, oh, like this, like this, and you're narrowing it down. And there's, you know, two years in, there's still some that were like, ah. Yeah, yeah.

Like, wow, this one really tastes good, but this one has, you know, a profile that people are going to want to buy, you know, a lot of people want to, you know, those high THC numbers. 35% THC or something fucking crazy. It's been nutty what we've been able to put out there with the right environment and shit and getting it dialed in. I feel like I would love that part of it. I wish I could still smoke weed. I had one experience, not real. This is a joke where I took a lot of acid and then I was smoking an eighth on the bong. Again, a joke didn't happen.

Mum, didn't happen. And I was like having a decent time on the acid. That's a busy day. Bro. It's ruined my life. And this was you fucking years ago. I was like having a good time on the acid and I was like, no one else at the party smoked weed. And I was like, I guess I'll just smoke an eighth on the bong to myself.

And I like pulled away from the bong after finishing like, I probably didn't finish the whole fucking eighth, but at least fucking two grams or something. Suddenly I'd remembered the movie The Matrix and I pulled away from the bong. and in my head I didn't have a mouth you know like that scene right at the beginning he doesn't have the mouth

and I was like I don't have a mouth and I went and looked in the mirror sure enough I don't have a fucking mouth so I spend the rest of the fucking evening apparently I mean no

I remember it vividly biting my fingers to make sure I still had the mouth and yeah if you don't want that to close up you got to keep something in there exactly great logic and I've never been able

to smoke wheat ever again because it was so like, you're dying. This is the reason I'm a mess. And I just, every time I smoked it since then, like, my mouth would remain there. But like, I don't know what it is. The feeling, I don't know what it is. Like, I would get, like, a slightly numb mouth and it would be like mini flashbacks every time. And then now I just can't smoke read. But I... Do you have to go check whenever you get those sensations? No, I'm crying. Did you check your belly button? No, thank God I didn't remember that scene. But, like, I'm grown up enough now to know exactly

what led to that point and it was just the fucking drugs. But I'm like, I just can't do it. It's just get anxiety from it. But all this stuff you're telling me about like mixing and essentially weed eugenics, I'm like, I'm into that. That's fucking sick. But I can't do it. I can't smoke it.

It must be less fun if you don't get to like reap the rewards. It's not a question. I'm just talking at you. I don't know. I enjoy eating it more. now than I do smoking at all. I can't do that. Yeah, you don't smoke much anymore, do you? Not very often. I just, if I, like, it helps a lot with, uh, restless leg syndrome.

Like, no way. I've got that. Oh my God, dude. It's like, maybe I should get back on it. If I'm just tossing and turning in bed and I can't get rid of this feeling and it's only getting worse, it's like, I just take a couple of hits. Uh, and then like, it almost immediately goes away. I like edibles more now because they, I feel like kind of hit a little bit more intense for me. And it's like a more sustained high for a longer time. But yeah, if I need to get the job done real quick, like, I'm trying to sleep what the fuck.

Like, then I'll just take a couple hits off of, you know, pen or a bowl or whatever. Can you play the drum tie? When I'm at home and it's, you know, low stakes, like I'm just practicing and I don't really have anything to learn. Or maybe I am learning something, but it's just, you know, I got plenty of time or whatever. That's like the only time that I can really smoke and play.

But if I got into a show scenario, it's like, dude, you're just driving a sports car at like 150 miles an hour. And it's just like, I can't be, you know, mentally foggy in that way. Like, it's just, it's, I don't know. And then I also get way to in my own head. And then I'm like focusing on all the wrong shit. And I'm like, no, I got to like stay. mentally on top of this and just kind of like, you know, be zen about it all and not be like, why do my toes feel weird?

Like, why can't I feel my mouth? Yeah. Why is my mouth not here? I'm playing the fucking drums. Yeah, and then I have to get up and go to the mirror. I mean, I'm getting the flashback right now. Do you smoke before you play? I like a little bit.

It's a little. Not like right before we play. Throughout the day, tiny little bit. I'll like wake up from a nap, have a couple puffs. So a very good friend of mine, Dan Walding, who plays in Carlin. Marcus. Now, he, do you know where I'm going to go with this? I can only imagine, I think, when he tried out for the band. Yeah, would you like to tell that, would you like to tell that story? I think Dan was 16 or 17. He was a baby, yeah. His dad came with him and,

uh, we jammed for a couple sets. It was, it was good. Yeah. Um, he was actually going to be too fast for us. Really? You know, we were seeing a bunch of people, a bunch of great drummers, and he was handling it at that time better than a lot of people that we had seen. Looking at all of it at that time and the logistics, you know, having such a young guy, I just didn't seem like the right match and fit at the time. But I remember telling him, like, dude, you're going to find a home because you're a great

fucking drummer. And now he's in Carcans, but that's not the story I heard. What was the story you heard? So you don't know this, which is fucking great. he's 18 he must be 18 he wouldn't have been out of going to fly for the purposes of what i'm about to say he's 18 you guys he comes and plays some songs smoke him up and he fucking absolutely fucking loses his mind which you must have not seen he's in the mirror checking for his mouth and shit oh shit he like whitey people still say whitey is that a thing green green

out green out it's got in the UK it's called Hawaii. He like fully like puked and shit and I think he kept it a secret from you guys and I think he thinks that's why he didn't get yeah he's trying to keep up with the big boys oh man. Does that change everything for you?

No, I'm even more impressed with him now. Yeah. It's tough to you know puke and have no one now. Yeah and then especially when you're staying at someone else's house. Still ripped the set. What age were you when you joined? But I was somewhere between 22, 23. He likes him young. Yeah.

And that was another thing that happened that was actually kind of funny is like they picked me up at the airport and like literally like 10 minutes into driving back to his house. Like they're already like, you want to smoke? And I was like, yeah, sure. I already was a lightweight. I've always been a lightweight with it. But I was just like, okay, I guess I'm going to smoke weed with these guys. Like I do like smoking weed, but it's just so weird when it's like you're meeting these dudes for the first time. And they're like, you know, how many albums deep is that?

like five. Yeah, yeah. And the five, you must have been a fan anyway. Yeah, so I was like playing cool. Don't be weird. Don't be weird.

You were weird and we loved it. You don't know it, but you were looking for a guy that could have handled that. Yeah, you kind of have to be weird in this band. And we knew.

Probably didn't take very long at all. Did you know straight away? Pretty much before the first song was done. You were handling it. the feels of everything, the way they were supposed to be played. There was no, like, that's his style. He's going to play the part like that. Alan's just knocking the shit out of the park and was like, all right, well, we're really excited.

How did you come across him? You were playing in Abigail Williams. Yeah. What tour was that? It was our last ever tour. Damn, I didn't know you played for Abigail Williams. Yeah, for like, literally a calendar year from like September 2011, until September 2012.

Ken before you? I mean, was there a middle? Yes. A middle person? No, no. I did jump in after Ken had left and enjoyed aborted. And Ryan came to our Chicago show. And I didn't even know it.

I had no clue. It wasn't until like a couple of days after that show or something that like Ken, big Ken brought it up. And he was like, yeah, so Ryan saw you play drums. and he was asking me if it was okay to, like, you know, potentially try you out for the band. I was just like, what the fuck? Like, I don't remember how I got in contact with you.

Maybe email. The first time we talked on the phone, you were like in Yosemite or something. Yeah. I have ingested some mushrooms. I, yeah, I don't remember how that went, but. The way Ryan told it, he went to the show in Chicago,

and he's watching Abigail play with you. And he goes up to the front of house guy and he was like, hey, is that guy playing real Tombs? Are those triggers? Because he just thought it sounded like all the fills were just slamming so right that he was just asking about it. And the guy was like, no, he's up there. Like, that's how he's slamming those Tombs. And that's how the ball got rolling there. Poached it.

And then in a weird synchronicity, you must have been playing songs from the, legend EP for Abigail Williams. I'm assuming you played a few. No, unfortunately. They were. They didn't play any of those. Yeah, dude. And on the last ever,

we had, like, members kind of coming and going because just everybody's, you know, lives and things happening and whatnot. And so, like, by the time that last ever tour happened, we got a replacement base player, like, literally a week and a half or something before we left on a, like, two months. tour. And it was all DIY. And so it was just me, Ken, and that bass player. We were playing as a

three piece. And because, you know, things had changed so drastically, constantly, it was kind of like, okay, well, whatever this dude can learn, we're going to try and make it happen. And it was a big focus on, like, the newer stuff. And I think just because of the complexity and the amount of, you know, like, we didn't even have a keyboard player. There's no way we can do like, the legend, or not legend, but like in the shadow of a thousand suns, all that stuff. And Ian has obviously gone to aborted at that

point from Abigail. Yeah. And Dan Wilding that we were talking about wasn't aborted before that. And Zach that played the drums on the legend DP played the drums on my asthma. Yes. This is a fucking... Yeah. What are you doing? Step drummer?

This is fucking... And's dirt. This is fucking crazy shit. All right, I want to get a little go a little back now. We done you, being a kid, doing the mushrooms, succeeded in the audition high out your brain. Little does anyone know that's the only criteria that needed to happen. Can you blast when you're fucking blasted?

Brian, when did you first get into music? I got a guitar, a square strat. Class. When I was 12. Yeah. And then that was kind of it. like did some lessons for a while, which weren't really all that educational.

It was more like the guy would, this old hippie dude, be like, well, what do you want to learn this week? And I'd be like, oh, yeah, show me this offspring song. Is that, that that's what I'm getting. What were the early things that you were listening to? A lot of, like, fat records bands. Really?

You're a punker. That's the stuff that I, like, learned how to play guitar on. Like, that's what I was listening to. Like, old no effects and. Yeah, yeah. That's where the speech came for. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Love an old fat wreck. Just that fast beat. Yeah. A bunch of those bands had going on, no use for a name. I think that dude didn't do like a backwards one. Yeah, he was fucking ripping. Two and then one. Which you actually use are.

I'll put in like straight up like, you know, just kicks near, kicks near. He puts in the cool little roly polies in there. Yeah. When did metal become a party life? It's kind of more like I started going to like hardcore shows in the Michigan area, and very healthy scene in that at that time. And then it was like the metalcore bands, you know, the first metalcore bands started like kind of popping around in those shows.

And that's kind of when I started like playing, like I want to play riffs like that. So it was metalcore that got you into metal. Yeah, yeah. It's funny because like my older brother, he was listening to death metal. and like thrash very early on. Like, I want to say like,

he was probably like 12 when he was like getting into that. And I'd look at these, you know, the artwork, you know, the Slayer covers

and Morwood Angel and Cannibal Corse. And I'm like, what is going on here? And then didn't really, I wasn't at a place in my, you know,

sonic absorption. Yeah. Point in my life where, you know, I was ready to hear that yet. Kind of got into it after being, you know, or a musician.

Yeah, that's crazy to me. I would not have pegged you as going from punk to hardcore to metalcore to death metal. The first Black Dahlia demo is this very like, like late 90s. There's some sweetest sound and riffs going on, but all right, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, so I'm old enough to remember that you got, this is this is why this is possibly shocking to other people and quite shocking to me, Because you are now like, you know, your death, death metal gods now, death, death, thrash, whatever. When would you call yourselves, you're dead metal?

We usually call ourselves immortals in the liner notes of the album. Yes, immortals, okay. But, like, is that a true thing? I haven't been able to die yet, or it hasn't happened yet. So I guess, like, it's true. It's true until it's not. It's an honorary thing. Yeah.

And you are, like, death metal gods to people now, like, and you're old enough. No offense. I'm straight there with you that you are like the old heads of death metal. We're in year 25 now. So it's crazy. We are getting up there. Yeah,

that's when fucking, I remember buying the Cannibal Cops DVD when it was their 25th and it's like DVDs were out. So, you know, that's a whole, it's a weird way of me telling you that. A lot of that was shot on a tour,

a Metal Blade 25th anniversary, tour. Oh, that's right. Came out the same year as Majesty, I think. People might be shocked that your trajectory was punk, hardcore, metalcore, then death metal. However, there is a couple of things that in the past I have heard and seen, and I thought, I wonder if there is a connect there, which is why I'm so stoked about this. You're about this guy care so much.

Unhalowed, and maybe the EP I don't know, because I can't remember the EP. Produced by Mike Hastie. Yes. of walls of Jericho. Yeah, he did the cold-blooded app, uh, epa-epadap, uh, EP as well. He did the EP as well. So I remember back in the day you guys would get shit on for being the short head guys playing death metal. Yeah, we look like some fucking young geeks. Which now you are the, the death metal guys playing death metal. I always wondered if it was Mike Hastie's influence why there was a couple of breakdowns and there was a couple of two steps.

But now I'm thinking it was you. you. He didn't Mike didn't offer too much production help in that. He's, you know, just kind of helping us

lay down our songs. And, you know, when you're young like that and tempos are all over the place on that. But he'd be like, wait,

what are you guys playing? And then you're like, all right, wait, oh, I actually have to play it good right now. Yeah. That's what I meant.

He's, I mean, Walls of Jericho. That was, I went with some friends and saw them play, you know, this old, you know, 1950s, like, department store that had been gutted.

And, you know, they threw up a one foot stage. Lights are on. Got a PA just to throw a microphone into the kick drum for and another microphone for the vocalist. Yeah. And I went and saw them. And I was like, that's what I want to do. I want to play music like that. And now you're in Black Dahlia.

Yeah. I want to do music like that. Now I'm going to make one of the most prestigious that the metal bands. It doesn't make sense, but I love it. I'm like, I really hope other people care. I care so much about this. Because I always wondered like elder misanthropy, it's a fucking two-step in there. There's a real life two-step. Like, you could mosh to it two-steps. Yeah, I've seen people do it. We don't play it too much anymore. We can pull it out here and there. Did you make a conscious decision after Unhallowed to go more metal? The trajectory was already there.

It was just we, you know, ended up having Zach join the band, and he kind of had, he had, you know, just some more chops going on than the previous drummer,

Corey. And kind of opened up a whole new world of like, you know, stuff that could be written. Yeah. And then Nocturnal comes along, and that's kind of like, really where we honed in and,

like, focused on, you know, I think the sound had matured at that point And is that attributed to you then having got into death metal During those years? Were you still like bumping walls of Jericho? Vision of disorder My musical tastes are rather weird

Go on Like last night I was listening to TV themes Awesome, come on You got, like Breaking Bad, soprano? No, no, like 80s, 70s Like what? Lefern and Shirley like sitcoms.

You're like actively listening to sitcom music these days. Right now. Wow. What are you listening to these days? Clown music? Yeah, yeah. Listening to the new neurosis. Oh my God.

It's fucking great. That was so awesome to just come out of nowhere and just be as powerful as it is. It sounds like he's doing an impression in a good way. Like, yeah, no, it just, it sounds seamless. This band I love Yowie put out a new record, probably. like, I don't know, maybe it was almost a year ago at this point, or maybe it was like sometime later last year. But they are super weird. It sounds like a bunch of 12 year olds just, you know, picking up instruments for the first time, but then they somehow remember how to play all of

the noisy garbage that they write. Like, and it's, it's absolutely crazy. Like, it takes a very, you know, special person that enjoys very annoying shit to, like, what kind of annoying shit we talking about how like dan-l-na-l-l-na-l-l-l-d-l-d-brown-brown. It's all tones. It's not even like melodies. Oh, you're in the microtonial zone. Microtonos' back.

Yeah, it's non-microtones. I wouldn't put it past them to try it. But, like, it's just avant-garde, like, noise jazz. So how the fuck has servitude happened when you're listening to TV themes and you're listening to this? I was probably listening to a lot of John Williams then. Um, let's get inspo.

John Williams is a step up from TV sitcom stuff. Yeah, a little more, a little more thought going on in there. Slightly more classic. More journeys, more adventures. Do you listen to a lot of John Williams?

I listen to a lot of, like, film scores. It's just, uh, it's a great way to chill. Or if you're working, blast that shit. Is that where your inspirations come from these days? Kind of always has or, like, just,

Stuck in my head and then it gets corrupted or perverted and turns into a riff and then a song It's kind of sick jewel of the fates pop it on I wonder if I could fucking shred that Staring sees of salted blood he's got a there's a part name right after I That's the solo just kind of rhythmic but yeah, that's that's definitely Predator Yeah, yeah Oh my god, it is I wanted to rip that off as a breakdown so hard like last time I watched predator I messaged our guitarist

and I was like, we want, mate, it's a breakdown. All the music for that movie is fucking great. Alan Sylvesterie. Unlikely sources of inspiration there. Do you miss playing the guitar? I mean, it's less than a drum kit. When I think about or I hear some riffs.

Yes. Yeah, there's a particular riff that I wish I was fucking playing that right now. And sometimes during a lot of times during a soul, it's like, all right, well, I'm just rocking out up here. man, fucking. I know this riff, man. Fucking. What's that weird?

Is it still weird at first? It's not really that weird anymore. Not having that security blanket. Yeah, no, that's what I was thinking. That was my shield for years. It was my weapon in my shield. You know what's hilarious?

Out there, like, talking to him, looking them in the eye. Yeah, they're fucking talking. Brice, you're doing a great joke. When we get together for practices and stuff, and, like, he'll put on a guitar and start playing, I'll be like, oh, yeah, you play guitar. I don't even know why that's like a disconnect now, you know?

That's crazy to think about it. I could never do it. I could never be a vocalist. I would love to. But the thought of not having those symbols in front of me and being able to just like, oh, the show kind of sucks. I'm like, I'm going to sit lower. Stage presence, what's that?

Yeah. I mean, you've always had pretty big stage presence, even for a guitarist. You're all over that fucking stage. I try to get around up there. Yeah. So it wasn't that much of a transition. I was used to the terrain.

Yeah, yeah. When picking a set list that includes servitude songs, how did you pick what songs stayed? It's tough, you know. There's ones that you know people expect to hear, but you also have to, like, kind of balance what do you want to do? Yeah. And what's actually been cool has been over the past, like, six months, we've pulled out some songs that, like, we haven't been. been playing a lot over the past few years and people have been excited about it. But when you put out, you know, every time an album's new, at least for us, we see it takes

a good couple of years before people like really respond to those songs in a live context. Yeah. But at the same time, you're like, when an album comes out, you really only have so much time to get people to pay attention that and have the opportunity to, you know, play those songs. let them have, you know, their time. Yeah. I think we're only doing like four out of the 22. I think so.

22. Oh, yeah, it's a marathon. Yeah, so you're just adding more songs. Almost like an hour, 25 minutes. So you just added four songs to other songs. There wasn't really any big cuts. 22 songs. Fuck your life.

In fact, you're the vocalist now. Fuck your life as well. That's fucking. It's okay. You warm up? Not in a traditional sense. Okay, cool. Sometimes, you know, just humming is all right.

Sometimes yelling feels great. A bit of yelling. What about you? I have been bringing my V-drum kit with me for the last several years. Like, whenever we do an American tour and I can get away with it, it's like how... The full kit. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of ridiculous.

He's already been playing for an hour by the time he gets on stage, usually, if not more. Yeah, yeah. Especially with this run, because we did... a European tour with Heaven Shall Burn, the Halo effect, and Frozen Soul. Then, like, had nine days off. And we were only playing for 35 minutes on that tour. And then we just jumped into this and then added an entire hour.

So it's like, this is the time that I really, you know, value having that kit with me. Because it's like I'm so envious of guitar players who can just take their guitars wherever they go, you know, into any room, whatever. It's not enough for me to have pads. and just move around. Like, I mean, that gets the blood flowing, gets the muscles, you know,

relaxed and everything. But it's like, without the auditory element of it, sometimes a fill, like a really weird fill with, you know, odd stickings and stuff, it's just so subconsciously in there that I don't know how to practice it

without hearing it. Yeah, I liked it so much. I was just like, man, I'm going to do this like all the time. I mean, it's a fucking dream. It's a pain in the ass, for sure. Like, I hate pulling it out. I hate setting it up.

Setting up every single day. Yeah. I've seen you count off on like a Roland. Yeah, you hear nothing, but we all hear cowbell. I wonder what it was. What do you call that unit, the silent count? Yeah, that's just like a little, you know, tube that has like a rubber face on it. And then underneath is like a Piazo.

We had been counting songs off the regular way for so long. It's like, okay, hi. But you have a click, though. Yeah, but he doesn't, you don't use Click Live. Okay, so this is what I wanted to get to. So you're the only one on a click? Uh-huh. Well, no, no, everybody else is now.

Everyone else has it in their ear? Yeah, yeah. That whole rig, the fake cowbell is just for you. Yeah, yeah. I want to hear you, baby. What confused me about it, the first time I saw it, and I do look for these things. I was like, oh, that's cool, it's so they don't have to go, but then I would.

But then I would see it in basically any section where there's guitar on its own. You're also hitting it. So I was like, maybe they're not on a click. And then I was like, if these guys are not on a click, I'm going to fucking, I don't know what I'm going to do because it's the tightest shit I've ever seen. 80% maybe a little bit more is on a click. What's not on a click? All of Unhollowed is not on a click.

So it goes even faster. Well, no, I definitely try to bring it down. And, you know, it does feel a lot more comfortable. I was ripping as fast as I could, though, for like, him for the wretched. Yeah, which is like, dan, dan, oh, nan, dan, oh, nan, dan, oh, then, dan, dan. Like, the whole time it's like, and like, and like, I was just like, oh, finally, I get to try and push myself as fast as I can go. And I remember watching, like, one performance that we did at, I think it was like heavy Montreal or something. And I was just like, oh, this sounds silly.

Like, I should not have just gone for it. Because, like, just because you can doesn't mean you should. That was my first, a festival was the first time I was like, I need to start playing to a click. Because I went to press afterwards. And a guy in press was like, yeah, you didn't play very good. You played everything really fast. And then I watched a video back and I was like, damn, you're right. You're like, we got through the, he was.

Yeah, thank you for your astute observations. You guys still suffer from German honesty? I think a Hungarian kid got me. Oh, I think I was there for that. He's like, it's a very good show. Trevor was better. Whoa. You think that there isn't, they can't go any lower.

I'm like, well, of course. Pat him on the shoulder. And he's so smiling. I was like, all right, man. Well, thanks for having a good time. And hopefully we'll see again. He thinks he's said nothing wrong. There's a running bit on the podcast, which is a nice,

He was saving the world with this bit of honesty. I think that might be the, the, the top of the pile in terms of the ones that we've had on the show of Germany. See, that one is absolutely brutal. Hey, man, I agree with the guy, but... Damn, you got to tell me? He got to come tell me about it. You're allowed to agree with the guy, but, like, in terms of, like, social awareness,

fucking insane. That's what we're talking about. Takes all kinds. That's what makes us a beautiful, diverse world. Hungarian honesty. A new level. I'm surprised you didn't do the accent. You've got some accents on.

You've seen it. I told him we should just come in and do our English accents and be like, I'm surprised you're American. I'm also from Tennessee. Yours is good because I've seen it before. Why didn't you come in with that? Everyone else does. Oh, I don't know.

Everyone else comes in and goes, hey, mate, how are you? That was good. Best cities crowd. Louisville, Kentucky. in Saga, Illinois. Really? I'm not even bullshitting you. Louisville's crazy.

These people kind of brought it in a really fucking extreme way. And they've kind of spoiled us for the rest of our experiences, unless everyone else wants to step up. Are you going by that? Yeah, I would also say that, like, L.A.'s really good. Like, really? I mean, well, just because, like, our Spotify listeners and stuff, they're...

He's not sure, and neither of my. Worst venue you've ever played. Tilby Court, Salt Lake City. That was a fun one. That didn't need to happen. This was a literal, like, had shed vibe. It was like, wow. The stage was kind of like, you know, eight inches off the floor and, you know, probably the size of like a kind of bigger drum riser.

That was the stage. Right. What year is this? 2015? You still should have been playing a grown-up venue. Okay. Band you never want to play after. Mine Maiden would be one.

I think everyone's going to go home. That could happen at one of those resurrection Resurrection festivals or whatever where they have like Spain where they have the headliner and then they have Black Darlia murder after Iron Maiden. Yes, Sunday night after party in the tent. I'd go, it'd be fine. Well, then you're cooler than most, I think.

I wouldn't be watching Iron Maiden, I'll take it that much. I'm not an I'm Maiden guy. Oh, shit. I take that back if they ever come on the podcast. I would say like Guar or ICP because I don't know how good the cleanup is. but it might be real messy still. That's a great answer.

Song in your set that always feels faster than it actually is. See, I actually kind of have the reverse problem. Everything feels way the hell slower than it should be. And it's like, you know, like when you're amped up in the moment, it feels too slow. I mean, like, shit, we brought back Warborn. And I think that's like, what, 160BPM? That's something like that, 160. Is that the last track on Nocturnal?

Yes. Bang. It sounds totally normal. And whenever I hear it and everything, but when I'm playing it, I'm like, holy shit, it feels so hard to lock in with this. Like, you know, just everything feels like 20 beats per minute slower than that. So I want to hear it like that. Slower? Yeah.

Oh, my God. I have to like switch pedals. That blast part is going to get real weird, though. Taka, taka, taco, taco, taco, taco, taco, taco, taco, taco. Yeah, do it. The crowbar version. Yeah. Part of the set you look forward to the most.

Being done. Wow. The fan's answer. Yeah, I like the part where, you know, you look at them and, you know, they've been satisfied. Yeah. And you can go take a shower. That's pretty good. I wish I had a drumometer that would count backwards and it would have the exact number of like hits.

You have left. Yes, exactly. It's kind of fucking awesome. So that I'm watching it go down. I'm like, yeah, we're almost offstage. Do you play everything exactly the same every night? Pretty much, yeah. So you could actually do that.

You could set up with MIDI. somehow. Yeah, exactly. That's really funny. That would be viral. Number one thing you could, that you would see in the crowd that would throw you off. Anytime there's someone like performing some sort of sexual act. Wait, you say that like it's happened a lot. Not a lot, but a handful of times over the years to make, which makes me think that it probably happens a lot out there in the world. I don't know. Well, you've seen penis from the stage. I've seen, uh, their partners going at it. Going out the penis. You've seen a...

Phalachio. Phalachio, during a black darling matter of set. They were pit adjacent to. This was like daylight. This is out somewhere in Europe of a festival situation. Oh, obviously. It was... You know what would be good right now.

This makes the music so much better. I love you. I knew you had those accents. I've seen them. Wow, that's fucking crazy. Low-key awesome, though. I say good on them. Do you remember what song it was?

No, I don't. One of the romantic ones. Yeah, one of the many romantic pieces. There's a couple. They're just listening to the lyrics while he's getting gobbled. What about you? I mean, I'm guessing the same. But you haven't seen that.

Yeah, it's kind of funny how much I miss these things. Yeah, it's like, you missed the blowjaws. Yeah, we saw some huge boobs and like, then one guy's head exploded and like, and I'm just like, man, what the fuck? I can only see the first like five rows until it's just darkness, you know. You just have to do this. If you're fucking Yeah, yeah, exactly. I can see everything now.

Yeah. First thing you see that lets you know the show is going well. Oh, just fucking movement at all. Yeah. It's a rough world out there. Sometimes people enjoy their music by standing their, like, statues and just really just, you know, they're taking it all in. And I don't know.

It's, that's hard for us sometimes. Mine is a crowd surfer. If I see a crowd surfer, if I see a crowd. Even if it's just one, I'm like, okay, this is good. The second or the third one, if it's happening in the same song, then I can be like, all right, these people are here to have a good time. Crowdsurfing one, crowd server two, below job, that's it. We've nailed it.

Can't wait for that end. Going back to the sexual acts, you can't always be sure that the, you know, coitus from behind thing is happening, but sometimes, like, just like, look at them. And it was like, there was one instance where I think it was like, Right up at the barricade. Right up at the barricade. Germany again? This might have been in the U.S.

So like I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're getting their friend to push them from behind. I wasn't got... Back in my day, it was just, you know, they just did anal. Yeah, now they're making up these loopholes. Yep. It's like THCA, brother.

That's kind of an orgy at that point, too, right? At least cock holding, the very least. That might have been the smartest joke that's ever been told on her. Thank you. And then for the last question, I mean, we'll get off the Mormon thing. I could talk about it all day. Oh, man, let's keep going.

What is, I mean, it's your favorite part of the set. What's the first thing you do when you get off stage? The other night, it was run to the toilet so I could pee because, I mean, an hour and a half, and you're just, like, drinking all sorts of drinks and then sweating. You have a piss on stage? You're the piss bottle band. Is that you guys, the fucking, it's on one of the DVDs?

There's a lot of piss bottle bands out there, But we may be one of the OGs. I think you had it as an OG one of those DVDs. You're pissing in the back of the van and there's a whole fucking bit about it. You never piss on stage? Yeah, I've had to because it was like another one of those long ass sets. So I was like really just hating myself for it. But I was like, I got to take some pressure off.

How did you hide it? Oh, you just fucking go. It doesn't matter at that point. You're like, what am I going to do? I'm either going to have to like jump off stage and piss myself on the way to the toilet or like. So you're at. the drum throne, cock out. Oh, no, no, no, just like right in your fucking shorts.

You pissed your pants on stage on this tour? No, no, no, not on this tour, like, long time ago. News to him. Yeah, I had to alleviate some pressure. There was just no getting around it. It's like, I'm either peeing now or I'm peeing very soon from now. And it is like, we're not done with this set yet, and I have no other options. You just pissed your dirty little pea pants on stage.

That's right. Full piss, or you just like... I just took the edge off. Like I let a little bit go And I was like, okay, we can make it through the next like 30, 40 minutes or whatever. Damn. Yeah. It's...

The rest of the band were oblivious, it looks like. Not proud of it, but, you know, like, what are you going to do? Hey, man, I left to take that shit that one time. Not the other night at the Starland, but the last time we were at the Starland. That's right. Yeah, yeah. That's were going bad. And I was like, this is another thing where, you know, like, you can't do this as a guitarist.

I definitely could not have done this as a guitarist. But as a vocalist, I was like, all right, I'm either going to shit myself right now because I'm just having a real bad day. I don't know what I ate yesterday, but it's not good. And I'm just going to walk down this little ramp here, go around the corner into the restroom here. Good. There's no one there. And made sure that I had my little pack, you know, not in the toilet.

Got your microphone. Do your stuff. Set the pack down as well. So I can visualize this whole thing. see the room. I could see the walk. What did the crack? Did you announce it to the crowd? Be right back. I may have said something about it afterwards.

Got to take a wig and shit. And it's in the middle of the solo. Was it? Did you actually leave during a solo? Yeah. It was probably like right when the solo starting, I left and then I was over there. No, I started singing in the bathroom. I didn't even notice. Incredible. Awesome fucking like. Good natural reverb.

Video of that would have been real. interesting because let's have fun of my pack here getting ready oh all right send a shot man you got this wiping wiping like a messy shit with a microphone whilst doing vocals kind of crazy

it had to be done yeah level of coordination I usually just have the one pair of jeans on me on tour so I'm not shitting them not for the people of North Jersey now you can't be shitting them on stage

what do you do at the end of the set I go to the club closest source of cold air. Yeah, straight out. Get that wet shirt off. Get under that vent. Just feel God's glory. And that's it.

Thanks, guys. Thank you. I'd be enjoying the rest of the tour. I'm glad we got to talk about Mormons and pant pissing, and I got to find out that the two-step came from you. You step, if you will. That's the conclusion. Yeah.

Thanks, guys. Bye.