The Downbeat - The Metallica Episode with Josh Middleton

Episode Date: May 26, 2020

CREGGY's ANTIVIRUS presents: The Metallica Episode. I caught up with Josh Middleton from Sylosis/Architects to talk about Metallica and nothing else for an hour.

Hello, hello, hello, is there anybody out there? What's that? Is that Pink Floyd, isn't it? Or the Scissors, depending on if you like shitty music or not. Hello, I know what you're thinking. Content God, where have you been all my life? Here's the thing, guys. I'm really bummed out by this Corona thing. So anytime I did a podcast, I just noticed, it wasn't really being myself and figured out that it was just talking for two hours about how fucked everything is, was really getting to me because we don't really know what's going on. And as a musician, it's pretty much a given that we're out until 2021 at least.

And even then things might not be the same again. So talking about that over and over again three times a week for two hours was really drilling my brain into a sort of mush, some sort of just, I want to say like Ghostbusters 2 pink goo, you know that? That was just, and I was like, you know what, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to talk to people about how fucked everything is because it's so boring and everyone's got a podcast now as well, which is fine. But everyone's got a podcast and they just talk about like, oh, when do you think it's going to go back to normal? and no one knows. So every podcast going is like two hours of people worrying and moaning. I'm like, that's not what I'm about.

I'm trying to be funny. I mean, I'm not trying to be funny, but I'm trying to be uplifting. Maybe, nay, inspiring, right? So I've been racking my brains on it while, you know, in bed at night, we should be sleeping, racking my brains, thinking, what can I do that's a little bit different? I'm going to cheer up the people. We're going to have like a, I'm going to call it a Craigie's antivirus, right? I'm not going to talk about the virus on these podcasts.

I might at the beginning bit, like this bit here. But what we're doing, I'm going to do a little series. There will be other things in between. But I'm going to talk about a band that's in my top five. Because everyone always asks what my top five bands is, because I'm always just talking about other people's. What we're going to do? We're going to do a band in my top five, talking about it with someone else.

who likes that band. So this episode, we're doing Metallica with Josh from Silosis and Architects. I'm just going to talk about Metallica with Josh. And I'm sure we're going off on tangents. I'm sure it would be real funny. There'll be funny jokes. There'll be japes. There'll be capers. But the grand scheme of things is we're not doing Corona. We ain't going to talk about that. I hope you stick around for it. Even if you don't like Metallica, you might learn something. If you're on the fence about Metallica, maybe you'll just be like, maybe I'll go check out those songs that they're specifically saying because they're very fucking good. I don't know if there's merch.

It depends if you're listening to this in the future or there might be some merch left or if you listen to this like in the summer future, there's a summer drop. www. www. the downb.e....com. That's hard to say. www. the downb-e. Dot, forward slash shop, if you want to go straight to the merch. Pick something up, that helps. I'll continue to do these now.

I've got a non-depressing angle. If there's no merch and you're desperate to give me money, there's a little donate button. Everyone that's donated so far. Thank you so much. Everyone that's bought a shirt. Thank you so much. If you haven't done either and you're still listening,

thank you so much. But maybe it's time you thought about investing in me. Let's do it, the Metallica episode, with Josh Middleton on the downbeat. Josh Middleton, Anthony Joshua, Joshua Tree, Josh, just Josh in. Who's Anthony Joshua? He is a boxer. Boxer.

Cool. Yeah, that's me. That's me. How are you? I deliberately didn't catch up with you so we can do a little bit. Yeah, real one. Real catch up. Yeah, I'm good.

Yeah? Yeah, just chilling, you know, just being hot. I've seen you've been streaming. I did, yeah, I've been trying it out. A stream test on YouTube. I did, yeah, and then I did it the first time, and I accidentally was live when I was just, like, checking if my mate could like hear the audio. I was like, can you just check this?

And then I actually made it public instead of private. I was like, oh, well, whoops. So what are you trying to do with that? What's your intention? Just, you know, just do some streaming, just whilst the lockdown's on. You know, play some songs. Yeah, just play some guitar. Just do some, like, you know, if people want to know how to play a song, they can ask me.

And I'll go, here you go, how's this? I play it badly. Fucking, are you doing, are you, just do a Twitch, though. Don't do fucking, that's all you're doing it on YouTube, just do Twitch. Yeah, yeah, I might do. get that Matt Heapy money Yeah I actually spoke to him recently He really helped me

Figure out how to Just set out the audio and stuff like that But he's very helpful He has it fucking locked down He does, yeah Excuse the pun True, true, true He must be making

Fucking serious amount of money Because he posts He doesn't post how much money he's making But he posts how many subscribers he's got And I did a rough map and it was like fucking 40 grand a month. I have no idea.

I didn't ask him, but I mean, yeah, fair play if he does. Fucking, yeah. And Ben, the thing is that

he deserves it because his setup is unbelievable. Well, and he's, yeah, he's putting the time in. Like, he's on there,

like, most days for hours. So it's like, no, he's not forcing people to watch. So, yeah. I don't think,

is anyone doing that? No, I don't know what I meant that. Streaming dictatorship. You have to watch this. No, but I mean like, yeah, it's up to the viewer, isn't it? Kim Jong-un. Kim Jong-un starting on Twitch and everyone has to subscribe on at least tier one or else you'll be executed.

Yeah. That's a bad taste joke. Anyway, we're not going to talk about Corona. I don't know if I filled you in on what I'm doing with this shit is I've recorded some podcasts and then I realized I hated it and hated everything I was talking about and I wasn't being myself. and it was because it's cripplingly depressing to talk about the unknown. Like, when do you think everything's going back to normal? I don't know.

Like, no one knows anything. It's bumming me out. So I was like, what can I do? I'll talk to my mates who like a band as much as me or more about that band. Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect. So we're going to do Metallica. Yes. Yes, we are.

I don't really, I've got no plan other than my basic. plan was to sort of, we'll just start talking about how you got into Metallica. Because basically, Metallica I wanted to start on because little do some people know. The Downbeat originally started was going to be called And Justice for Lars. And I was going to do it with you. Oh, yeah. And we were just going to talk about how Lars is actually sick. Yeah, for sure.

Sick drummer seems, have I met him? No, not properly, but seems like just full of banter as well. so yeah. Yeah, and then I realised there's a bit of a ceiling on a podcast which is just about Lars or Rick. Yeah. So I expanded it, but now we're going back. Maybe we'll just call this one and justice for Lars.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. That's a great time. That's a bit of clickbait as well because people might be like, oh my God, he got Lars. Guess what? I didn't. Next best thing. The next best thing, Josh, period.

Although Ben from Royal Blood, like knows Lars really. Yeah, yeah. and has like his fucking phone number and shit so I'm going to get Ben on here and then get him to call him on the podcast. Yeah just be like oh do you want to ring Lars? Yeah. I want to give Lars a ring?

Yeah, I'd love to hear that. It'd be fucking, it'd be bloody gorgeous Josh. Yeah, yeah. How did you get into Metallica? Were they the first metal band you got into? They're like one of them. I like bought a corn out. No, I bought a corn single. Good God.

just because, you know, they look cool when I was like 10 or 11, whatever. It was like around, yeah, Life is Peach came out. But yeah, no, I just started buying... Wait, wait, wait. Corn was the first CD you bought? The first metal CD? In terms of like, it was a single, yeah,

so it was a good God single off Life is Peachie. I can't remember if I bought much before then. But yeah, I used to... I just started buying Kran when I was a kid. When I started playing guitar, I was into like food fires and raging against the machine and stuff when I was like, yeah, still in primary school. So then I just started buying Kerrang and then just looking at,

oh, I guess that band looks cool. So I'll buy that. And then, yeah, Metallica was everywhere at that time, obviously, always were, every time since they died. And yeah, I think I just must have checked out like until it sleeps or something. I was going to say, it must have been like reload time. Yes.

Yeah, it was. You flicked through Kerrang and thought they look cool. Yeah, yeah. So I also, like, my older sister, her boyfriend, just, I was like, oh, if you like heavy music, you should check out this album, and it was Anjustice Rule. And I hadn't really heard that one. I heard, like, the black album and stuff.

And then when I heard Anjustice Rule, I was like, oh, that's the one. And I couldn't figure out, like, what guitar effect are they using here? And he was like, that's not an effect. That's layers of guitars harmonizing together. I was like, oh, wow. So I bought a four track and started. like layering up guitars after I heard that. But yeah, and Justice for All was like the defining this band is an amazing moment for me.

I was exactly the same. Although for a second, let me go off on a tangent. For a second, I thought you were going to say this. There's no reason for you to say this, but it would have been so funny. You went, my oldest sister's boyfriend and I thought you were going to say Beavis. Interesting. It would have just been so funny. My oldest sister's boyfriend, Beavis,

because he's got the Metallica t-shirt, hasn't he? I don't know. I don't know who's who, out of that duo. What? You don't know who's Beavis? Out of Beavis and Butthead? No, I can't say ever watched it, because I never had, like, Sky or anything as a kid,

so I wasn't on, like, Twethevus. Beavis has the Metallica T-shirt and the blonde hair. Right. Butthead has the ACDC T-shirt and the dark hair. Right. I guess that's the brunette. Butthead's the brunette. Yeah, nice.

Um, anyway, so that's the side point. How did you get into Metallica? Similar thing, right? I was at school and funny enough, there's a beavis and butthead twist into this. What a fucking segue. The first time I got into metal was because my friend in primary school, John, he had MTV and Beavis and Butthead was on it. obviously because it was a cartoon, but it was for adults, so I'd watch it. And then, like, the music sort of seeped into my brain, but I didn't know who any of them were. And then on holiday, I bought a bootleg Beavis and Butthead CD. And it didn't have Metallica on it, but it had, like, anthrax and primus and shit like that. And then that was when I sort of started dipping my toe into metal.

And then when I was at school, there was like a school concert in Year 7. So, what were you in Year 7? 11, 12. Nine. Not in year seven. Oh, what age are you? I thought you said what year would. Right.

Yes, okay, year seven, you were like, yeah, 11, 12. Yeah. What did you think I meant? Oh, I thought you were saying like, I'm two years older than you, but you were like, that you were saying, but whilst you are in year 11 or 12, I was like, no, I'm not out of my shoulder age. Oh, okay, okay, okay, right, yeah.

So in year seven, when I was like 11 or 12, it was like a school concert coming up. and my friend Mike was like we should do this song and it was for whom the belt holes and I'd never heard it before and I was like holy fucking shit the other song was like I think we did

fucking back in black and sweet child of mine and then it was like for a third song he was like we should do this song and I was like hang on da-dun-d-d-d-d-d-b-d-d-l-l-l-h-l-h-l-h-h-and- and I was like fucking

a 12-year-old push-mosh in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I learned that song badly. And then he ripped me, because his dad had like clever clog shit back then. He ripped me and Justice for All. And was like, this is the one you want to listen to. And I was like, hang on,

I think you might have lost the bass from the CD encoding, ripping process. And he was like, no, my friend, that's that. It's supposed to be there. Or not. And that was it. Nice. Both.

And both heavily into that injustice for all album. I was like the first proper album by them to get into. What a tree. We're not going to start there though. What we're going to do now. We're going to go from Killamall. Okay. And I don't really give a fuck about Killamall.

So you might have to do a lot of the Killamall talking. What do you want like a biography? Well, it was 19802. Was it actually 1982? I think it came out in 83. I was just going to make something off about them writing and recording. I wish I don't know when that was either. People might not know this.

People might not know this, but you have a weird sort of... Party trick. Rain Man party trick, which is when someone says a year, you can tell them what Death Metal or Thrash Metal came out of that year. Or it's like how you judge how long ago something was. Like, oh, 984 and then you go... Oh, that's what. when that's a year after individual thought patterns came out.

Is that what you would do for 94? I mean, what, Fabium Driven came out then? Was it to not destroyers and prove that it was 95, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, just, I used to just be a nerd over. The encyclopedia of metal release dates. Yeah, I just read all the inlays and my CDs, like inside out when I was a kid. I mean, there was much else to do then, so. All right.

Around the same time that I got into metal, obviously Ace Ventura came out. And then Cannibal Corpse on that. And I was just like, well, this is just noise. I love it. And then back then there was MP3.com. And I downloaded a Cannibal Corp's song from there. And the rest, as I say, is history.

I can't remember what song it was. I'd obviously seen Ace Ventura, but I don't remember as a. kid like paying much attention to cannibal corpse i heard pounded into dust on like a metal hammer cd and it was just like that's insane pounding this dust is the first track on blood first yeah yeah yeah it's that's the best one that's the best album iMO Colin richison production lovely lovely yeah it's the first one that actually sounds good yeah i mean yeah that that that album hasn't dated production wise whereas obviously some of the other stuff

Morriss Sound aren't going to come to your house and fucking knock down the door and kill you for saying the other ones didn't sound that good. Yeah, well, no, I'm just saying like bloodthirst you can put it on up against like any modern production and it still sounds good. Wait a minute. This isn't the Cannibal Corpse episode.

Sorry, no, do you want to do that as well? Right, Matanica. Killamore. Yeah. Killamore anyway. I love the Cannibal corpse. Right, Killamall is the debut studio album by the American Heavy Metal Man Matamaka. Yeah.

Right, I'm on Wikipedia. June, no, July 25th, 1983. How old were you, Josh? Not alive. Yeah, I was minus four. Yeah. I was minus four. So I assumed my dad would have ejaculated for the four years between 1983 and

1987. So I really wasn't in existence. My thought pattern there, my individual thought pattern there with Josh was, What would you actually be a minus figure if someone didn't My dad's going to listen to this so let's just move on I doubt it I don't know much about biology but Would you come out old like Ben is that how Benjamin Button happened Someone just didn't jerk off for like 11 years

And then the sperm was already like 80 I don't know why I said 80 it would only be 11 Maximum it would only be 11 This is mental Yeah I don't think it just keeps growing and growing inside you. I think they just die off, don't they? I'd imagine. I don't know.

Anyways, right to work, Kill them all. We just keep getting into the album tile and it stops. Released on the independent record label, Megaforce Records. Yeah, you're on Wikipedia. Famously. Yeah. I mean, look, okay, let's just get into it. For me, I personally don't really dive into Killam All that much.

I obviously have listened to it a bunch over the last 20 years. But for me, like, the Holy Trinity is ride lightning, master of puppets and adjusters. for all. So, like, those ones I'm obsessed with. Obviously, a lot of respect for Killamore, but when, like, there's a huge change between that and Rydelight of Lightning and all like that,

sort of like classically, classical and inspired stuff. And, like, yeah, it's like, it's almost like two different bands. It's Andy from Every Time I Die's favourite Metallica album. Killem All. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, it's like, you know, energetic and, like, kind of more. punky and stuff

I feel like hit the lights and see you can destroy I'm fucking with those and that's about it it's just not yeah it's just like not as dark and yeah dark I guess it's like right the lightning is

and I gravitate towards Batman forever versus Batman versus begins I would say I would say Batman Forever is

it's not quite Batman and Robin because I'd still watch it. It's Batman Forever and then Ride the Lightning's Batman begins. And that is when Batman began in my opinion. Yeah, I feel like it's almost like a debut

because it's like... I'm already having so much more fun than talking about fucking what do you think's going to happen with the virus at stage diving? Didn't know. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that one. But yeah. But yeah, it's like its own debut album, right, the lightning.

It's like when they started introducing all the classical guitar stuff properly. Right, okay, fuck Killem All right. Although the Killam All right, although the Killam All artwork is sick. Oh, yeah, it's great. I actually got a pair of Killamaw socks for my birthday, so. Jealous. Do you want cool socks? My New Year's resolution was to buy cooler socks

because I'm no longer in a relationship where a motherfucker would steal my fucking socks every day so I'm going to buy cool socks and Metallica on my list for cool socks currently right now I'm wearing like that starts co-lab moors tattoo socks one of the tattoo artist Moors

I don't know is it they're just cool socks but they're like got tattoo shit on them you know anyway imagine if Pusset did socks. That would be lovely, wouldn't it? Classic Metallica skulls. Pusshead doesn't do socks, but if he did, they'd probably be the best

socks in the world, Josh. Yeah, I've always said that. Okay? Ride the Lightning is the second studio album by American heavy metal band Metallica. Released on July, they love of July, July 27th, 1984. Is that the year after? Did I say 1983? For the other one? Kill them all. Yeah, I think that was 83. Yeah. It was a... One year.

Quick turnaround, isn't it? One fucking year. Oh, right. I don't know where to fucking start on this because I feel like Ride the Lightning, ah, fuck. I feel like Ride the Lightning and injustice for me, like flip-flop into which are my favourite.

And I only think that's because I overdid Master of Puppets when I was a kid. Yeah, Master Puppets is great, isn't it? I mean, like, I feel like Master Puppets is probably like the most, like, solid album front to back and cohesive and, like, to the point. And I don't know. I mean, the quality on all of them is great, but Master Puppets, to me, feels like the most. We're not doing puppets yet. No, I know.

We do puppets in a minute. Okay, yeah. Sorry. We're doing lightning. Lightning, for anyone that doesn't listen to, look at me fucking shortening it to lightning. First name terms with a lightning. for anyone that doesn't listen to Metallica but you like hardcore

you need to listen to Ride the Lightning because it just sounds like a fuck it all your favourite hardcore riffs have been stolen all your favourite hardcore band intros have been stolen from Ride the Lightning yeah

I mean yeah for whom the bell to hold is got a lot of legs it's just a serious mosh anthem yeah yeah what the fuck goes on in

fire with fire with the guitar. Josh, so I can't ever figure it out. I can't figure out if it's just messy. You know the way it comes in? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I don't know what you mean. Right, let me pull it up without ruining.

If I can pull this up without it tagging, fucking shazaming. Have you looked how big their heads look in the promo on Apple Music? Um, I haven't. They look like fucking funk-funco. pops. That's fucking crazy. This is, I mean, so far it just sounds like I don't like Metallica, but I do.

Right, hang on, let's get yourself. Right, when it kicks in, well, I can't even hum that. You know, after it goes, blam, blum, blum, blum, blum, all that shit. Yeah. When the drums come in, they don't come in on one. It, like, flips it.

There's a classic switcheroo. I thought you might know what's going on because it's like dig dig dig dig dig dig digda dig dig digda digda digda digda digda yeah I've to talk my hair

but I can't remember what happens there but also you're the worst person to ask because you thought raining and blood wrong yeah

how did you think raining blood was going I thought the counting was one two three four da da da nah na

na na na na na no no no no da da da because it always sounds like the last Tom hit is like the one

So it's like a one, two, three, four. So then for you it comes in on like the fucking three then. Yeah, always threw me off. That's why it threw me off as a kid. I was like, whoa, what's this time signature shit they're doing? That's fucking funny, isn't it? And then when the drums come in, you're like, what? Oh.

I always think that with music, because there's some things that I can't get that are in 4-4 and I just can't get them because I'm hearing the one in the weird place. like I remember I did like a fucking wedding band and it had a Kings a Leon song in it I can't remember what fucking Kings a Leon song and it starts with like and I was hearing it and la da la da la da and that was my one

and I like I would fuck it up every time I used to get that just just a 4-4 indie and I would be blowing it it's a bit like when you know when people say like what if what if what if what I see as green, you see as blue, but because everything is blue for you, then we don't know it's the different, do you know what I mean, but musical, a musical version of that.

Yeah. Anyway, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me slurped my tea. Back to the, back to the lightning. Back to seminal, we'll call it the fake, the fake debut album, because it's not a debut album. No. What's your favourite track? Fire with fire, easy. Just like that.

It's like one of the best songs by them. It's one of my go-to gym albums. And Ride the Lightning's sick, especially like the tapping section. It's like, like the solo. So good. You got trapped under ice,

you got creeping death. Yeah, call of Kutulu. Kutulu. The first of the Lovecraft references that go through the Metallica. Yeah. Maybe just in those three. Or did they do another one recently?

I think maybe they did another one recently. They did. What's the track, was it three on Puppets, though? What's that one? Thing that should not be? Is that not about... Cthuloo? Again, yeah.

It's not even just Lovecrafts. It's just Cthuloo. Again, and then I think there's another one. Yeah, the new album's got one. I can't remember what it's the song title, but yeah. Yeah. I do love a Lovecraft, but sometimes there's casual racism in it, which kind of throws me off. I don't know when the last time you read any H.P. Lovecraft.

I haven't read any, but I have heard that. There's some questionable stuff around in. It's early 1900 sci-fi for anyone that doesn't know. And it's like way before it's time, like cool shit about like cosmic horror. And it's real nice, real cool, like spooky shit. and then suddenly the dog in the story will be called the N-word. So I kind of stop reading it, which is a shame. And I think if you read into it, he was like notoriously racist.

Right. Imagine getting cancelled like 90 years after you're there. Yeah, cancelled, for sure. It might be the latest cancellation. Yeah, I mean, there should be like a website for. French, isn't there? Cancelled.com and then have like, I reckon he would be first. Encyclopedia have cancelled.

Although Henry the 8th maybe might be the first cancelled. I'm sure he could go way back. Yeah, yeah. Um, sorry, yeah, and I was just thinking about Ride the Lightning again and just like, just how good that song is called Cthulu. Catulah. Wait, so Ryder Lightning,

you probably know more than me. Ryder Lightning is the first one with that producer. What's his name? Fleming. Fleming. Yeah, where is it?

Is that just one name? Like Seal. Fleming. Fleming Rasmussen, I think. It's a Danish, I think. Denmark. Yeah, and he did.

He used to play tennis with Lars' dad. Did he? Is that the story? I made up. I made up. Oh, I wish you'd just fucking rolled with that. That would have been.

It doesn't matter what we could talk about. The rest of the podcast would be just done because of that wonderful tip. No. So he did ride the lightning puppets and injustice, and then they brought him back for something else, didn't they? I don't know if they did anything else with him. And I don't think he mixed And Justice, or I don't know if he mixed any of them actually,

or if he did all of justice or if that was recording in a few different studios. But, you know. They're not bringing back. I thought they brought him back to do like fucking deaf magnetic or something No, I think that was Greg Fiddellman I could be wrong No, you're always right

And I love how you like, you're always saying No, I think that was, and it's always right Why didn't they just bring him back? I don't know, I mean, I don't know Like how active he's been producing I mean, maybe he has been acting Probably is still working But like in terms of keeping up with modern metal production

The last thing I know that he did The only other thing that I know that he did was fucking Oh, Eval. Oh yeah, he did the Eval first album actually UK thrash band And Covenant, Morbent Angel They're the only two that I know Yeah

Anyway, this isn't the Fleming Rasmussen episode No But I do want to know if he mixed it He did not mix it I'm just looking now Right I should have this prepared, shouldn't I? Yeah, yeah.

It doesn't matter. Right, we're going to go, you got anything else to say about rather lightning? I'm also trying to condense this down to an hour, so we're actually going too in depth. Okay, yeah, cool. All right, puppets then. Lovely.

Right, take me back. Josh, Josh Millerton, when he gets Master of Puppets, how old is he, where is he, what's he wearing, what format is it on? Is he skate, does he skateboard down to his local HMV? to pick it up on the set? No, it was CD, but I'd definitely skateboarded there. Any kick flips?

Yeah, probably like one. Nice. But get home quickly, you don't want to smash a new album up, do you? No. Did you nail it, though? You landed it? Yeah, probably. Kick flipped into the store, skated up to the M section, paid for it in cash.

Wait, you skated up those escalators? Yeah. I'm assuming it was the Oracle No it would have been Fryer Street No Oracle was there yeah I mean Yeah I was like I don't know

Oh yeah in my head it's 986 but you didn't buy it on release then No I didn't know I was probably like 14 when I got Master of Puppets and uh Yeah no that one's I remember listening to it at like mates house parties a lot And like sanitarium and battery In particular just

Yeah so good Like the intro to battery is like the best intro ever. Yeah, all that like, what sort of guitar is that? Like, magical? In my head, I would just say like a magical, the magical scale. Yeah, it's like a weird sort of chromatic chord progression. It's like on a classical guitar. And see, that's the thing like when people talk about like thrash bands,

like completely separated and there was loads of people like trying to sound like metallic and ripping them off. but no one was really doing that huge epic, like majestic thing they had going on on like the start of battery. Like that intro is insane. But like no one else was really, people were like ripping them off,

but no one would like even bother ripping off like the stuff that made them like super cool, which is like all that kind of stuff. That's what annoyed me when I tried to find other bands that sounded like Metallica. No one was doing that bit as well. Exactly. Yeah, that's what I wanted.

And I think my next progression, from Metallica actually was S&M when it was like Metallica with an orchestra I was like this is fucking sick I wonder who else has got an orchestra and then I googled it and then it came up with Dimu Borgia and I was like okay this is fucking crazy

and that was that I spent a hundred pounds I shouldn't say how much I spent because people donate to the podcast and I'm supposed to be buying food with that but I bought a vintage

99 Demi Borgia T-shirt the other day is tie tie-dye with the old logo

and it has a big pentagram on the back that just says spiritual black dimensions crazy you know

it was way worth it but if you donate it to the podcast for me to buy beer or food just let it be known

I might have bought that with it I regret saying this now right so you've kicked

flipped out out of the shop you got home battery on. It's blowing your fucking socks off. Oh, yeah. Sox be firmly off. Yeah.

Silo's the thing by this point. Or you're not got your chops up? No, yeah, near enough. Like, yeah, probably, I mean, Silas has been a band since I was, like, yeah, 14. So, yeah, probably. And, yeah, no, battery, like, playing along to that is what got my chops up, like, for riffing. That's the... Sorry, that was a creaky flip-flot then.

Um, yeah, like, that, that album is like what got my, my playing up to speed on guitar, because I just wanted to be able to play along to that. The, similarly, for me, fucking Master of Puppets, there's a bar of 15, 16 in Master of Puppets. Oh, there's some weird stuff going on, isn't there? Do it, do it? And it's, yeah, that is a bar of 15, 16. And that's where I started to sort of learn that stuff didn't need to be in four. I don't really think they knew what they were doing with that.

Um, but a lot of like my drum students, they'll be like, I want to know master puppets. And it's a great, if not difficult exercise in like weird jutty outy guitar bits for lack of the musical term from a person that has a degree in music. Um, yeah, it's fucking difficult. Yeah, it was just odd, isn't it? And they wouldn't have recorded it to a click, I don't think. So, well, obviously not. It's just like a feel thing, isn't it? Such a massive drum sound as well.

Yeah. Warehouse, I think. Is it, really? See, this is why you're on this episode. Are you making that up as well? Tennis where. I suppose it was a tennis courts, was it, Josh? Yeah, in a big indoor tennis courts.

No, I definitely heard it. In Dainland. I heard it was a big warehouse. Either that or wide lightning, but I think it was Master of Puppets. But don't quote me on it. And it's the last Burton album, wasn't it? Yes, yeah.

J-R-IP'd. And he had some pretty... Sorry, there's a baby making noise there. Yeah, his, like, bass tone was, like, sick on that. She's still crying about Cliff. I mean, it's been a while. I know, it's understandable, but... Come on.

It's... Yeah, his bass playing is obviously, like, huge on those first three albums because he does, like, bass solos, doesn't he as well? So, essentially. I know. I never knew they were bass solos because they're so, like, distorted. Like, for whom the belt hole shit. Thought it was a guitar.

Yeah, I thought it was a mad sounding guitar. Yeah. Anyway, we can't go backwards. We have to go forwards. Sure. I'm just figuring out if it was in a warehouse just so everyone knows that you're a liar or if you're true. True. Okay.

It doesn't say anything. I'm not going to read all this shit, but it was done in Copenhagen, Denmark. Right. So, any, you know, same old shit, same old shit, same drums. Oh, they borrowed a black beauty snare drum. I did not know it was a black beauty. I also have a black beauty. So they borrow the Terminator.

Is that the name of that drum? But that's not the Black Beauty. That Terminator is the black album, the Bell Brass. Oh, right. Is that the... But the Black Beauty is the Ludwig. I didn't know that they used that on Master of Puppet. They borrowed it from Rick Allen from Death Leppard.

Legend. Cheers, mate. So I own two drums that are just for Metallica, basically. No wonder I sound so fucking good, Josh. Jesus. Well, I've learned something today. I feel like I've learned a lot. I mean, I could have just gone and gone on Wikipedia

and not done a whole podcast about it, but I still have learned. Good. How did Cliff Burton die? Josh. Do you know the ins and outs? Because I don't know.

I just know he died. I actually got a really good book called Back to the Front, which I don't know if it's official. I feel like it is, but, and it sort of details like Mars or Puppets era

and like all leading up to then. So it's got like, that I think a lot of the, I haven't finished reading it yet, but a lot of it keeps going back to like what's happening on that night. But they're essentially on tour.

I think they're driving through Demi Mark actually on tour. Yeah. And then I think the bus like skidded on, or apparently the driver claimed that the bus skidded on black eyes. I feel like maybe people weren't sure if he was like lying about that. Or maybe I've remembered that wrong. But either way, the bus like crashed, I think went on to its side and he,

I think came like, got thrown out of his bunk and the bus sort of like fell on him, I think. Oh, no. The worst nightmare. Everyone's worst nightmare. Yeah, and like Kirk was saying how he, they were like pulling cards or whatever to like see who gets like the good bunk or whatever that night. So like, and like I think like Cliff wasn't normally sleeping in that one or something like that. Then just so happened that the night that they did that, he died, yeah.

Fuck, there's always something like that, isn't it? Wait, have you heard the rumor? Who is it that said this? I don't know why I'm going to say this because I don't want to pour fuel on the flame of the rumor. But isn't, now, I'm going to do it anyway, isn't there a rumor that they were going to kick Lars out

before this happened? And then obviously Cliff died so they couldn't lose two original members. I'm asking you like, you know this, but I'm just asking if you've heard that. I've heard that. I've heard it like,

I think I heard it more like recently over the last few years or maybe it was just like some, clickbait headline, but I don't have a clue. I feel like, I want to say it's in Scott Ian's book. Yeah, it could be. But yeah, I feel like there was also like the rumor also included like who they were going to ask.

But I can't remember. Who were they, yeah, fuck off. Of course you can. No, I genuinely. I really can. Of course you can. No. You're just being all fucking on the fence because you're a guitarist that loves Metallica and

you want a tour Metallica. No, I genuinely don't know. I can't think of anyone else. But I know how I... Who was a rat? Who was good in 1986, though? Jean Hogan. Imagine and Justice for All with Gene Hoagland.

Yeah, it would be insane. Yeah, I seem like Dark Angel were already a thing then. But then again, imagine the black album with Gene Hovelyn. Be fucking like, be like... Just two, three rides. Yeah, three rides in Enter Sam, man. Exit, like, It would be fun.

I'd love it. I don't know how Blas beats would sound with that snare, but... Dude, do, do, do, do. Fuck me, yeah, imagine that. Yeah. I'd like to hear it. We're going to move on to injustice for all. God, yeah.

And here's what we're going to do, right? We're going to do, and justice for all, and we're going to talk briefly about the Black album, and then we're going to talk about some kind of monster. Saint Anger and then we'll probably just end it because my Metallica ends at St. Anger. Honestly, genuinely, this isn't like saying nice things about Metallica,

but the new album, if some of those songs were on like their first three albums or first four albums, they'd be absolute classics. Don't get me wrong, I agree, because someone had it on in the van, and I was like, who is this band that wants to be Rider Light the Lightning in Metallica?

And they were like, oh, it's Metallica. I was like, oh, see it. But I'm just thinking of time, Josh. Sure, okay. I'm thinking St. Anger's an entertaining place to end. Okay. In fact, do we even need to just talk about every album? Because fucking And Justice For All is just the best.

And if you don't, if you think you don't like Metallica, listen to Anjustice for All. Yeah, I mean. Because it's fucking clever. Blackened is like my favorite metallic song. And like that's so heavy, so technical. Here's a funny thing for you to check out. because you know the intro guitars to black

and it's like that creeping like yeah the guitars are backwards if you go on YouTube I think you can find like or you do it yourself you have my pro tools whatever but how they sounded reversed like actually how they're played and like the core progression is just like yeah whatever but when you hear it backwards it's like

oh my god that's like the coolest core progression um did you steal it I know actually really just wondering because I would steal it yeah

yeah and you know it's fine you're allowed to steal it do me a favor and steal it um of course famously the

the really fast the only bit of really fast double bass really is on and justice die as eve and like the only real

there's the do do dun da da da after the first chorus oh shit yeah it's sick and fucking, I guess, one, when you're a kid, one is fast. Digg-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d.

Yeah. If you're a kid or you're a 60-year-old man, then that bit is fast. And not edited. I mean, I assume, like, the takes would be, like, comped. So it's, like, maybe, like, they used to be, like, comp takes on tape, I guess, like, you know, get out of razor blade and, like, stick this verse to that chorus and that kind of thing. but I don't think they could get in and, like, edit the kicks separately to the,

all that sort of shit you can do now on ProTool. So, like, that's some tight playing. The kicks are, like, super tight. And it sounds sick, so. Someone told me, because fucking all the drumming on those three albums is incredible. Yeah. But someone told me the other day that

Lars didn't touch a drum set in between from the end of recording the end of touring and justice to the beginning of the black album that he didn't touch a drum kit once yeah maybe that that's I can't remember who told me that

and it was like someone said that's when he arguably got worse at the drums but I think they just went a little bit more rock then didn't they yeah I mean just no I don't think like he was ever like a drummer that was like obsessed with being like super fast or technical. I think he was just like a fan of heavy music and just wanted to be in a combat. And his band got massive.

Yeah. Like he was more concerned. I think it was just like he's more concerned about Metallica than his own playing or like the drumming in Metallica. He's an 80s Matt, Matt Nichols from Bring Me. He'll be the first person to say that he doesn't really. doesn't really Yeah But he just cares about making music

Yeah I mean like Yeah just because like You play that instrument at band Doesn't necessarily mean you have to like obsess over it Which like yeah But that I guess like people Who like just want more from Lars It's just like give him a break mate

Have you heard what he's done? It's brilliant And also if you do like They did black album load reload and then is it St. Anger? Of course, it has damage. There's garage fucking... Sure.

That doesn't count. That don't count. But that's six years at least, probably eight years, of just playing rock drums. Yeah. Like, and I guess you would only practice the fast songs when you had to play them live. So you're naturally going to get a little bit rusty.

Yeah. On your old shit. he's not doing terribly though he's fucking 60 years old is he might be older than that is he if he's younger than that i'm gonna then i'm gonna see he's 56 56 is he yeah

the lion's share of 60 I don't think I'll be able to play like I play now when I'm 56 I barely play how I play now now yeah drums in particular is like super physical so annoying To be able to like keep that up. Yeah.

It's tough. So fucking annoying how physical drumming is. I'm just waiting for the day when I'm like just wake up. I'm like, nope, that can't happen. Yeah, I remember like Nollie saying like, rooting her. Just like, just like, just like, annoyed. Just like, oh, this is like, to be able to play all this stuff, I've got to like essentially do a drum workout every day to be able to maintain it.

And he still does it every day. Yeah, it's just like. it's impressive, it's cool, but it's just, it just goes to show like how much work you need to put in with drums versus like other instruments because of how... Especially double kick. It's mainly double kick. Sure.

If you like, don't play it for a while, your muscle memory just goes to shit. My theory is it because you're like, you use your legs every day to do other shit, like walking around or whatever. So your leg muscles are adapting to just everyday life. so they don't really have there's nothing in everyday life which simulates

fucking double pedal yeah whereas like generally using your arms is in like every day to make a fucking cup of tea is essentially the same thing that you do know I mean

yeah and like you know I'm not using my ankles when I make a cup of tea no you're not are you god I wish I was Josh so black album Right, Black Alam. Yeah, I mean, Black Am was like, I guess I was exposed to that, one of the first ones.

I don't know if I had a copy or just, like, knew the songs off it. But I borrowed, like, S&M off someone as well. Classic riffs on there, you know, it's definitely a departure from, like, the stuff that me and you are obsessed with, like, the really fast, trashy stuff. But I'd say I listen to the Black Al more than I do, kill them all. Definitely. When I was a kid, I fucking hated. Black album though because it was not and justice for all too

but now I can appreciate it and production is sick that near enough holds up by today's standards near near enough I mean if you hear it in like a rock club or something it still sounds bigger than a lot of stuff you hear the drums are fucking crazy yeah that's a bell rust that's the big dog

I think there are samples in there as well though I think like primitive triggering yeah no no I mean, like, if you think about all the old Scott Burns, Morissound stuff, that's all triggered. And that was, like, 90s. Oh, like, fucking... Arise.

What was it when I listened to the other day? It was, like, just crazy, fucking scream bloody gore. Yeah, oh, yeah, exactly, yeah. The fucking snare drum on that is, like, an 80s album. Yeah. I mean, I don't quite me on the background, but I think there, I've heard that there are some samples in there. I mean, you've ruined my day.

But, I mean... With that. don't necessarily need samples when you're playing like slower rock beats. I'm sure he was like beating the shit out of it. Like when you see him tracking. Have you ever watched the year in the life? Yeah, I've watched it with you like ten times with you every single time. Yeah, that's probably me making you, I mean not making you as good stuff, isn't it?

But yeah. It's such a shame like how good that one is and then some kind of monster. I mean, fair, yeah, it's a... Stop being, I can hear you. thinking. How can I say this without making my favourite band not hate me? Stop thinking. I'm not. I literally, I'm waiting for you to, I thought you were going to make like a comparison or something. Well, yeah, because a fucking, what's it called a year in the life?

Something like that, yeah. Is, what is it, is the end of the injustice touring and then the beginning of the, or is there a separate injustice DVD? No, I don't think. It just starts with them in the studio doing the black album and then there's some touring after that. And it's just cool and they're like cool guys and they're having fun and partying and like, not that you have to party, but like it's just a general good vibe. And then fucking some kind of monster is like just watching, watching the Sims,

but it's in a studio and you just put everyone, you know, in the Sims where you can just like pause it and go into build mode and then like put one of the characters in a room with no windows and then just, wait until they just shit themselves and then die. That is what watching Saint Anger is like, to me. It's, and I feel like you're going to say, like, wait for me to say something like really positive there.

But yeah, it's, it's, uh, I feel like I'd watch it more than I'd watch, uh, a year in the life just because there's more like tension. I watch it, I watch it at least twice a year. Yeah. It's a good watch. I mean, it blows my mind, though. I think I really don't really I just think Bob Rock's the problem

Yeah and Phil Whatever his name is Oh fuck me Like when they're like trying to fire him And he's like no I don't think so I was like mate you're getting paid like 40 grand a month Of course you don't want to be fired If anyone hasn't seen some kind of monster

It is the documentary on the filming On the recording of St Anger And St Anger is like I would say Saint Anger is like a piece of art in that it is the worst album by a big band, I think, ever made. And I don't blame the band for that. I think I blame Bob Rock.

Have you seen that? They're like the deleted scenes. Obviously you must have, but can you remember the deleted scenes where Swiss beats is doing some stuff with some of the music that they've played? And who does he get to sing on? Is it Jarl Rule or someone? Oh, I think it is.

Did it. That's a great Jarl Rule impression. And they're like... Yeah, jar rules on it. Yeah, it could be like a Super Bowl song or something. Yeah, we did it. Oh, God. Yeah.

And in that, I do actually, me and Tom from Australia talk about this quite a lot. Like, Kirk Hammett sticks to his guns when he's like, it's lame if we don't do solos because we're Metallica. That's what we do. but obviously there's no solos on it but he does stick to his guns in the documentary that's to stick to your gun song if anyone hasn't watched some kind of monster

you should probably watch it because it's just like a car crash television I don't want to end on car crash of an album that is Saint Anger but obviously as well there is have you heard the mixed version of the song some kind of monster?

What do you mean mixed? Like remixed? Well, there's a version. There's a version on the single and it's like alternative mix and it's just being mixed so it actually sounds all right. But I really do think

the rest of the album was completely raw from the desk. I mean, the snare is mental, isn't it? It's like instead of finding the frequency where the ring's coming from and cutting it, they've just gone, nope, turn it up. They've boosted it. But that's what I'm saying. It's on Spotify, if you look for some kind of months of the EP or whatever single. Right.

Like, there's an alternative mix, and they've just mixed it properly. And it doesn't sound that bad. I think if the album was mixed better, it wouldn't have been quite the steaming pile of urine that it is. Stop being nice. Come on. You're not going to turn around and say St Anger's actually good? No, I don't know if I've actually listened to it all. I've listened to it probably, honestly, ironically,

I've probably listened to it more than kill them off. I mean, you've got a St. Anger tattoo. I've got a Stangar tattoo. Once on a drive, we figured out how long was left of the drive and how many times through a frantic we would need to listen to it to get the drive done. And it was about three and a half hours. I thought you were going to say that's like a unit

and you measure drives How many St Angers is it to Chicago? No, no but it was honestly And I think it was like we only have to listen to Frantic A hundred and thirty six times And then we'll be in Denver Right So we did it

Yeah, we did it It was It was punishing That's Tom's special move that is You got any Jerry's final thoughts So I'm trying to keep these quite, you know, just short. You got any Jerry's final thoughts on Metallica? Just, you know, the best band ever.

Mental, how big they are. If you think about, like, blackened as a song, like, how fast and heavy is, and they're, like, one of the biggest best-selling bands of any genre in the world. Just, like, will not happen again. It's impressive. would

Robert been your choice for bassist if you know out of those people some kind of monster they do the tryouts

don't they would you have picked him or like in a dream band scenario would you pick someone else I think it's probably the best out of one of the best like yeah

out of the people that is in some kind of monster trying out from what I can remember although Pepper Keenan from the corrosion of conformity would have been cool.

But who would I have got if I could have picked anyone? I don't know. It's just bass. Wee. Yeah, I know. I don't know. Steve Dejorio. From death. Well, imagine like a fretless.

Fretless. Didn't they get fucking Les Claypool in as well? Yeah, that rings a bell. I feel like, yeah, he might have. Yeah. I don't know. That's fucking mental. whom the bell

do you get by the do that would have been so odd but I feel like I've heard that I had one other thing to say but I can't remember what it was it was about Metallica Josh but I can't remember fuck what are we just talking about

Metallica for an hour bassists bassists some kind of monster oh Newstead we didn't even go into Newstead to Newssted.

Thoughts on Newstead? The man, not the band. Yeah, he was sick. Sick undercut, you know, lots of windmilling, very enthusiastic, yeah. Back in vocals was sick.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. What's he doing now? He was in Voivod, isn't he? I don't think he's still in them. I don't know, but yeah, he does his own band, I guess. Do you think he got a little bit unfair, unfair bullying?

because of obviously Cliff Burton it probably rub people up the wrong way he probably did yeah I don't know I mean do you mean from the band directly or just I'm

or just fans or just like just in general I mean I have no idea like you don't know I mean the lack of base on injustice like is like maybe

a bit of a a bit too far, isn't it? Imagine doing that, though, on purpose. Like, ruining your record. Ruinning your record just as a dig at someone. I kind of respect it. Yeah, I don't know. But, I mean, yeah, no idea.

He's never really... He's always said, like, oh, I wasn't that bad. It was always fine. And, like, you don't know, like, the ins and outs of it or, like, what went on in the band. But, like, he's always just been like, whatever, like, he was the new guy, got, hey, he's like,

I don't think, he, you never really hear him, like, kicking off or, like, complaining about those guys, so, I don't know. I thought he did when he quit. I thought he had a big kickoff. Anyway, it doesn't fucking matter.

We've done it. We've done an hour. Fuck this, Josh. This is done. It's been nice to not talk about the impending hell. Yeah, yeah, and, like, you know. Well, don't say, yeah, like it wasn't nice.

No, no, it was like. When you say impending hell, about to feel like, oh, are we not coming out the other side of it now? But who knows? Yeah, for you, that only does fucking two tours a year anyway, because your band's so big. For me, it's like, 2021. You probably weren't touring until 2021 anyway.

Yeah, probably not. Yeah. Yeah, so hang on, let's not end on the shit that I don't want to talk about. Okay. Let's end on... Metallica are very good bands. Just hum some riffs for you.

That's a nice... But that was a nice ending, because that's the end of that song, isn't it? You're going to fade it out as well. Can you just do that? Can you do that quite a lot? And then we'll just literally... All right, see you like, guys. Dunnet.

Dun it. No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, no, do it so we can, I'll do like a weird reverb and that'll be the end of the podcast. So just do it once, once through.

Like, battery. Dada, da, do it, de, de, de, de, is that the end of battery? Then you go, that explosion. Okay, okay, okay, okay, we'll do that. Is that battery? Yeah.

Yeah. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.